The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Bo and Monroe

Episode Date: November 5, 2021

Bo Winegard has a PhD in social psychology from Florida State University. He is an essayist who is interested in evolutionary psychology, philosophy, and literature. Marcus Monroe is the recipient of the prestigious Andy Kaufman Award, regularly performs all over the country, has made numerous television appearances and is a regular at The Comedy Cellar. 

This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of New York's world-famous comedy seller, coming at you on SiriusXM 99. Raw dog! And on the Laugh Button Podcast Network, Dan Natterman here with Noam Dorman, owner of the world-famous comedy seller. We have Periel Ashenbrand with us, our producer. And with us today, Marcus Monroe. Who is Marcus Monroe?

You got it right. Well, who is Marcus Monroe? You might be wondering. He is a comedy-seller comedian. We often have them here on our podcast. He has performed at colleges, clubs, and corporate events throughout the country and has had numerous TV appearances, including David Letterman, Late Show with David Letterman,

MTV's TRL, ABC Family, Switched, and was the host of Discovery Kids' Mad Science. Marcus Monroe, welcome. Hey, thank you. This is exciting. Happy to be here. Long time, long time listener. Have you been? Yeah. Marcus, no, this might be of interest to you.

Marcus is a mere 36, 37 years old. Yesterday was my half birthday, 36 and a half birthday. But that's that's not what's interesting. What's interesting is, is he's married to a 51 year old woman. What? Oh, which is just plain odd. Well, we've been together for so long that it doesn't seem that odd to us anymore. It's just normal. Because when I met her, I was in my 20s,

and she was in her 30s, so it wasn't so weird. But then as we got older, people were like, wait a second, that's a big age gap. Well, it was a big age gap then, but there's something about being in your 50s that's as someone who's in his 50s, you know, that it's a that's a it's a number that packs a bit of a wallop and it's kind of shocking. Sure. Yeah. Everyone when I tell when people ask, oh, well, how old is your wife? And I say, well, she's, you know, in her 50s, 51. People look at

me like, no, what? How old is is she i'm like i i just told you they think i'm joking well yes i mean that makes sense that they would think you're joking sure because it's quite unusual which is ridiculous because if it were the other way around nobody would even bat an eye right a lot of guys well if the other way around people would bat an eye but it wouldn't be quite as as odd or quite as but i don't know around i think they'd be getting like high fives but i should be getting high i think older women are hot but i was never why why what what do you find hot about them no i just thought you know i like i was never into like milfs as we as we say like i like sure i like them but it wasn't ever my my thing um why

do I like them well I like uh the maturity um I like uh she knows everything she had a 15 year head start so she can do so many things I don't know how to do taxes Dewey Decimal System that is hot that's hot yeah it is hot we don't really use a Dewey Decimal anymore. That is hot. That's hot. Yeah, it is. We don't really use a Dewey Decimal anymore. But if we did, if we ever reverted back to it, she would know it. So wait a second, though, because there's another level of fascinating here. There is. So I have a stepdaughter. And we are only five years apart.

I'm five years older. She's 31 and 36. She has a baby. So technically, you're a step-grandfather well yeah i'm a grandpa for the kid doesn't know any other grandpa but me so you know well what about the kid's real grandpa i mean we don't talk about him okay okay um but i mean yeah so we don't want to talk about of course we want to talk about him when you say something like that what's the matter with the kid's real grandpa oh Oh no. I mean, no.

So like it's my wife's ex. So we just, you know, we always just shit on the guy. It's kind of just tradition. But, um, and, um, what about you having your own children? Um, we tried, we tried, we tried to do IVF. It was a no go. Um, so I think we're just happy being grandparents at the moment. And we are talking about fostering. Of course, if you have to do that, I live in New York City, you have to have a second bedroom, which we're lucky enough to have. We were doing that right before the pandemic. And then all these foster agencies had to shut down because they weren't going to give

kids out during the pandemic um which although to me it seems like a great opportunity because these kids need to be safe need to have loving homes um so my wife grew up with a lot of foster kids in her house when she was a kid and so i thought it would be good to foster a kid uh for a couple years or so and then if we uh found a kid that we fostered that we fell in love with then then maybe look at an adoption situation. What would they allow somebody to adopt at 51 years old? I mean, you're you're in the running, but her I don't know what the rules are for adoption. Yeah, well, you can look. I mean, yeah, I think if you I understand what you're saying.

I think it's not one hundred and fifty one. Well, if she's going to be by the time they talk about adopting a kid, falling in love with the kid, and by that time, she's 55 years old. And I'm the judge or whatever it is. And I'm saying, well, I got this couple and another couple that want to adopt. And, you know, they have to. Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of single people are able to adopt kids. So I think if you're married, it doesn't hurt, especially we've been married for eight years.

So I think if you're married, it doesn't hurt, especially we've been married for eight years. So I think that that definitely also Marcus, Dan, I mean, Dan is right that the judge might look askance on the fact that she's 51 years old. But that's, of course, mitigated by the fact that you're a comedian. Exactly. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So and also when we when we foster a kid, we're not talking about a baby. We'd foster someone a little bit older. So it would be like normal for them to have a parent a little bit older. Well, I tell you what, fostering an older kid, that is really I mean, one has to. That's a bad idea. Marcus, trust me, it's a bad idea. Oh, my God. You think it's a bad idea?

Fostering children is a it's like it's like far as gump. You never know what you're going to get, you know? And, and, and more often than not these kids, I mean, I feel bad saying this because they need their unfortunate children or, and, and our heart goes out to them, but it's a tremendous commitment. And it could be, it could be an overwhelming commitment. But fostering is not adopting fostering. You give it back. Oh my God. You

guys are insane. No, but you don't but you don't do it unless you're ready to really devote the time. No. Yeah. I mean, no one's right. It is a huge commitment. And this is something that you have to it's a process to even get the kid like you have to go through classes and courses and you have to be background checks. You have to be vetted. So if we were to get, you know, and we did a few of those steps but then covid happened um so we're talking now even today my wife was like we gotta we gotta have this serious talk about if we want to if we want to do this and i i'm all for it right now i i think it would be a fun opportunity and um a lot of the fostering though it's like hey we need you

for a month you know we need you to watch you watch, you know, to, to watch this kid, to be with this kid for a month. And then we could do short-term fostering, to see if it's a fit for us and see if we want to continue with that. I mean, your wife obviously kind of took you into the foster child. So she's probably, I know she, she'd have two foster kids at this point. Does she have like a good job? Has she got money? We're doing okay. Yeah. doing okay yeah we're doing we do good well i didn't ask if we're doing good i ask if she's well so uh yeah yeah she's she's in health care so we're good it's weird to me that my wife is is uh younger than your wife it's amazing all right i mean listen yeah i mean my wife is like i i think like um she she doesn't

look like 50 i don't even know what 50 looks like but she doesn't look like it you know she's people a lot of times don't even know there's a huge age gap when they when they see us together actually i want to i mean some of the things i said kind of fell flat i don't mean to say anything disparaging about it i i do i do find it fascinating like man to man when a man is attracted to older women 50 50s are is still um you know where depending on how a 50 year old woman looks can look can still look 30 and it can still can still look hot in the old-fashioned sexist sense of the word right sure but um but as they get older when a woman really begins to look elderly as it were um i'm not attracted to that i had to be honest it's hard for me i

i'm not proud of that i feel like it's how it's beyond my control but i would mean elderly like when she has like a diaper and like a bedpan? I think, I think, I'm just getting at myself in trouble. When a woman looks- You're already in trouble, so you might- When a woman looks like you would sooner ask her, do you have any grandchildren or do you have any children? At that point,

she's unlikely to be sexually attractive to me. I mean, as genetic, we had that, I forget his name, that guest on who would explain it. It would say that men are Plumann. No, not Plumann. The evolution of Plumann, not Plumann, the guy who did the sexual evolution or whatever his name is. But anyway, he he would say that it doesn't make sense for a man to be attracted to a post-fertile woman. It doesn't make evolutionary sense. Now, let me ask you this, though. If you're so old that you can no longer have an erection,

do you think that without the aid of medication, does that impact that decision at all? Like, if you're also that old. I've thought about that. Like, if I needed medication to have an erection, that's a big if i if i needed medication to have an erection that's a big if if i needed medication to have an erection i would worry that if my wife knew about it that perhaps she would find me less attractive even though she wouldn't want to i just perhaps like involuntarily your sound is not great no one's coming at us no one's uh zooming in today

against my. My sound is not good. It's not quite as. Do you find it a little bit? It's not quite as crisp. It's a little distant, but in any case. All right. Anyway, I think that because you're getting older, I would think that in an involuntary sense,

she might find me less attractive for that reason. I don't know. What are you getting at, Noam? Are you saying that Marcus... I would keep it a secret. Are you saying that Marcus is heading into troubled waters? No. As the years go on?

No, more power to him. I'm admitting my own shortcomings. You're admitting it, but it's not unusual that youth is associated with beauty and attractiveness. You're not saying something that's unique to you. There are things that are unique to you. That ain't one of them. So what's really interesting, Harry Enten did this podcast.

Mark, you should probably listen to it. Harry Enten has a great new podcast called Margins of Error, where he uses statistics as an entree into kind of like quirky, interesting issues. And one of the things he examined was this divide by two, add seven rule about how much older the man is supposed to be than the woman. But what he found, now we kind of see it as the lower limit. Like if you're 40, you shouldn't date a woman younger than 27. But actually, years ago, it was the opposite. That

rule was considered the perfect age that ideally a 40-year-old man would date a 27-year-old woman, that he wouldn't go older than that. So for a very, very long time, it was expected that a man would be not just older, but significantly older than the woman. And that was considered to be the perfect. Well, I know is in the movie Gone with the Wind. Red Butler was in his 40s. The character was, I think. And Scarlett was supposed to be 16 at the beginning of the movie when she first laid eyes on the dark haired stranger from Charleston.

So maybe they need a double warning now they have they have a warning on that movie now about the racial aspects maybe they need a double warning on that movie for the uh yeah i mean it really but i don't know but that i don't think that was considered scandalous at the time i don't know there's also a lot of cases of just old guys you know i you hear these cases like this, this old civil war veteran that married a 16 year old and like, she's still collecting a civil war pension. And as of 2010, but, but, um, you know, my, my, my mother was 19 when I was born. So, um, you know, I, I, I,

I, I'm your father. He was, um, he was, uh, uh, he was 29, I guess. All right. No, no. No, he was 31. He was 31. My mother's parents were about 11 years apart. And I thought when I was little, I thought that was unbelievable

because when you're a little kid, 11 years is a long time. I mean, my parents are four years apart, and I thought it was a big deal when I was little because as a little kid one year is a big you know you didn't even you didn't even hang out with kids that were a year older than you were two years old he was like a whole nother category right but as you get older it doesn't it doesn't matter it's all we're all we're all dying anyway so i guess it doesn't matter but my so my father this is i remember my father was 31 when i was born my mother turned 19 in march i was born in july so prior to that he was 31 when I was born. My mother turned 19 in March. I was born in July. So prior to that, he was 31 and she was 18.

And then the year before that, he was 30 and she was 17. So, you know, it's getting a little, it gets a little risky there, but that wasn't, that wasn't. Were they together then? But that wasn't scandalous either. And it wasn't, it was just like a couple of years ago that Jerryerry seinfeld was dating a 17 year old wasn't he yeah i don't think he likes to talk about that too much but i love the way peril is like oh god shaking your head like oh no it's like we've heard about shaking my head because when it's the opposite nobody

really nobody bats an eye like if yeah because it's very unusual what marcus is doing of course people are going to bat an eye when somebody's doing something that nobody does. I don't know if nobody does that. I don't know if nobody does it. No, very few people. It's exceedingly rare. It's true. It is a rare thing, and I get it, but I'm so happy with my marriage,

with my love life, with my... You sound like Pete Lee, and he's from Wisconsin. Yeah, and I love Pete Lee. Just a couple of hicks. No, i love her wouldn't change anything i wouldn't want her to be any younger um definitely not any older but i think we're in a good we're in a good place and uh it's a it's a beautiful thing like i've dated girls my own age for it had serious relationships with girls my own age little younger little older and i met my wife and well speaking of of older women younger men this is a good lead-in to a story this week that I doubt Noam has any interest in,

but I like it. Kim Kardashian and Pete Davidson rumored to be dating. They were seen holding hands at Knott's Berry Farm, wherever that is. I think it's in California. And apparently, according to TMZ, they shared a private dinner at a pizza restaurant in staten island this week tongues are wagging uh kim is mom as to whether they're more than friends but of course uh speculation is rampant and of course kim kard Kardashian is, I guess, 40 or 42-ish and Pete's like 28-ish. The difference is roughly that between

you and your wife. I know Noam doesn't like this kind of Hollywood gossip stuff. Well, this is interesting to me because we know Pete Davidson. And who knew when we first met him that he'd be dating Kim Kardashian? That's crazy. Well, I mean, this follows a laundry list of other big names like Ariana Grande. But this is this is the biggest one of all.

Well, I think Ariana Grande was bigger, bigger than Kim Kardashian. She's like she's like the white whale. Like like like that's that's the ultimate. What's what's the Moby Dick thing there? Like the ultimate whale. I forget what it's called, but that's her. That's the biggest. Pete's first girlfriend that was significantly older.

No, no, no. Kate Beckinsale. That's right. Well, yeah, when I first met Pete, I guess it was at the stand. However many years ago. It wasn't even that many years ago. And the last thing I thought was that this guy is just an absolute slayer when it comes to women.

Now, obviously the fame helps him being on SNL helps, but there's a lot of people on SNL and they don't slay the kind of. Well, Colin Joe's got Scarlett Johansson. That's true. Yes. Yeah.

Well, he's another one, but, but Pete really is in another league in terms of the, the number of women and their level of fame okay but scarlett johansson that's a pretty that's a pretty amazing that's two that's a that's a pretty big coincidence those two guys that's women like funny they do well they yes i suppose they do but they like but you know they they like fame as well maybe women like sketch comedy and no one

knew that that's what it is but there's a lot of you know i mean um i don't i don't watch snl anymore but there's a big cast and we're you know i don't know who these other people are dating or could be dating but pete seems to be a standout even more so than col Colin in terms of his his his attractiveness to women. You think Michael Che would be dating someone famous, too, don't you think? Well, I think he could. I mean, it's not it's also not important to everybody to date famous. But some people just want to date a regular human being. That's true. But I could see Chase kind of like a human troll in a way, like on on Instagram, on Twitter. He's maybe he's not on Twitter, but on Instagram, you know, he kind of likes to play with cancel culture,

kind of put his foot in, take it out. So I could see him with dating a celebrity, kind of enjoying that life. I gotta be honest with you, the first time I saw Pete Davidson, I kind of thought he was ugly. And... What? Well, that's what I thought. He's an interesting looking guy, you know?

But women love him. I mean... I don't think he's bad looking. He's not ugly. He's not ugly. He just you know? But women love him. I mean... I don't think he's bad looking. He's not ugly. He's not ugly. He just doesn't look like anybody else. Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's the key, I think.

I think that he's tall, skinny, and weird looking. And he has tattoos. What's that? He looks like a horse. Well, he may well be. He looks like he could be. Wait, do people know that? Is that a general knowledge? Yeah, I a horse. Well, he may well be. He looks like he could be. Wait, does that, do people know that? Is that a general knowledge?

Yeah, I think so. Oh, shit. I don't know if that, I never heard that, but. I mean, with Kim Kardashian, come on. What is your take on Pete Davidson's sexual attractiveness, Perrielle Ashenbrand? Perrielle is a no. Well, go ahead.

I still love that Noam doesn't know how to say Kim Kardashian's name properly. Be that as it may. How did I say it wrong? You said Kardashian. Oh, Kardashian. Sorry. Peace be upon him. But what

is your take on Pete's sexual I mean, I can objectively recognize that, you know, he's got that like bad boy. I like the tattoos. You know, I think if you're attracted to that and, you know, he's really funny. I agree with Noam. I think that funny is a big thing for me personally, but in general. But he's got that like bad boy, you know, fuck you.

We never saw Jack Black dating like at that level and he's funny well i don't know if that's true or not yeah i don't i can't comment on jack i don't is he he's married with kids i don't know what he's doing but like what what and maybe jack black because i just saw him in the holiday on netflix oh gosh which is from 2005 and i said good lord this guy's been famous for a long time. Anyway, in the movie, he hooks up with Kate Winslet at the end. That was the venue ceiling height for a juggling show. There it is.

Throw it. Great, thank you. It shows you how desperate I am for work as a juggler. I'm like, yeah, you can hit the lights with your props. That sounds good. I do a lot of stuff down here. Listen, to be honest with you, there's not a lot of jugglers turning down work.

And it's not just me. And I'm not even talking about performing. It's like, you know a juggler, you need help moving a couch. Like, they will do it. There's not... What's that? guest is here our other guest is here um Our other guest is here. Let him in. Dan has the intro, right?

I got the intro. Bo, has he been on the show before, Bo Weingart? No, hi. Bo Weingart has a PhD. I don't know what that means. That's Latin, I guess. You know, all these years, I never bothered to Google what PhD was. Philosophy of doctorate is something.

Doctor of philosophy, technically, but it's actually. I'm sure in Latin it means like, you know, philosophy is doctorum or something of that nature. In any case, he's got one of those. Yes. In social psychology from FSU. That is correct. That's Florida State University.

He has an essay as to is interested in evolutionary psychology. Well, who isn't philosophy and literature? Please welcome to our podcast, Bo Weingart. Bo, by the way, I'm Dan Natterman. I just do some brief intros at Noam Dorman. He owns the comedy seller. Perry Alashian Brand is with us. She's our producer, but she chimes into and marcus monroe he's 37 he's married to a 51 year old woman evolutionary psychology everything you've said has been proven wrong by marcus monroe yeah well yeah actually well that's we might as well start with what do you think about how likely is it that a that a 37 year old man... 36. 36. Sorry, take it easy. Would be attracted to a woman in her 50s?

I would predict that that would not be the common pattern in a society, but there's no reason to think that there wouldn't be anomalies. There you go. But rest assured, anomaly. Take this outside, sir. He called you an anomaly, Marcus. I think that's a compliment. Is that a compliment?

Complimentary, yes. I have to look that up when I get out of here. It's a euphemism for outlier. Hey, we met. She was in her 30s. I was in my 20s. It wasn't like I fell in love with her. I just met her the other day.

We've been together for 12 years. But from an evolutionary psychology point of view, obviously. We're programmed to to be attracted to women with whom we can procreate. Is that not the case? On average, yes. So if you look at. The what men find the most attractive, you generally find women between say 18 and 24, but we also have this, well, and then it gradually sort of declines. And I think you can see this,

if you took any, in my class, I used to take Sigourney Weaver, if you are familiar with her the actress yeah and i would take her and i would i found like photographs of her at 20 30 40 50 and you kind of see a linear decline in attractiveness now we also have a pattern of pair bonding so we fall in love with each other and we care about and invest in each other for reasons other than just sex. What? So Mr. I, I, I, I, I've been off, I've been off Twitter the last couple of months, pretty much, but, but during during COVID when I was homeschooling my kids and I had nothing to

do, but sit in front of here, I used to read you on Twitter a lot and I had nothing to do, but, uh, sit in front of here. I used to read you on Twitter a lot and I found you endlessly fascinating, uh, commenting about the various things that were going on in news and, um, cancel culture and, uh, uh, uh, people who got in trouble for talking about, uh, genetic differences between people and sex and no trans. So, um, uh,ed trans. So I'm wondering where to start, but maybe I'll just ask you, what's your big issue right now? What are you thinking about the most along these lines? Oh, yeah, it's a good question. I'm actually sort of stepping back from my interest in politics per se, because it's just, it's such a mad world. It's very polarized. It's very frustrating. It's disconcerting to me. And I'm more interested in philosophy, human nature,

psychology, et cetera. So I'm, that's kind of what I'm working on. I'm more interested in, you know, writing essays, but I have been reading some stuff about, for example, I'm reading Helen Joyce's book, Trans, which is an excellent book about trans ideology. So keeping in the controversial territory, but I did a lot of stuff on human variation. And then I'm kind of backing away from that. It's painful. It's like banging your head against a wall at some point. And it can only get you in trouble, right?

Yes. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. Oh, I mean, it's not even so much the sort of getting reprimanded or I got fired in my case, but also it's just really frustrating because there's a lot of dishonesty. And I don't say that lightly. Like there are honest people, of course, who disagree with me and disagree with me vehemently. And that's great. And let's have a debate. But there is just a lot

of flat out dishonesty. Like I talk to people privately who say something and they say something different publicly. And that's incredibly frustrating. It happens all the time. We have, we've had that experience on this podcast time and time again, where after the show is over, they'll say the mic's off. Right. Then they'll, then they'll let out what they really, you know, the on the unspun version of what they really believe. This is right. You should hear what I say about gnome in private. So what's your take on and you, Marcus, jump in here. What's your take? What's your take on the the Chappelle thing, the trans thing?

What do you take away from this book on this trans issue? Well, OK, so I honestly haven't listened to, and this is incredible, but this shows my discipline and that I've moved a little bit away from some culture war stuff. I have not watched the Chappelle special, the last one. I watched the one just before that one. I'm not, this is not for political reasons or ideological reasons. I'm just not actually a huge fan of Chappelle. Like I, I, you know, I give him credit. He's seems courageous and I have no problem with what he says, even if I did disagree, who cares? But I just, I'm not, I don't find them that amusing. The trans issue, I haven't completely worked out my views on it i think it's i i get alarmed when i see topics where moral accusations fill up the argument more than

facts and attempts to understand where people are coming from so i do think it's a problem to insist that you have to say somebody that is a biological male is a female. So the quote, trans women are women is either perplexing to me, or I don't think you should have to say that. That said, I mean, I'm all about, you know, we should be tolerant to each other and respectful, of course. And I have no problem with that. And if somebody wants me to use a particular set of pronouns, I will use those pronouns. But I don't think you should force that on people or coerce people to say things that they don't think are true. And I don't think somebody becomes the other sex simply because they identify as that psychologically. And I think one,

you know, an interesting comparison, and this is something Dawkins, Richard Dawkins has gotten trouble for, but it's, it's a useful question is what is the difference between somebody who says I'm black because I identify as black and somebody who says I am woman of I'm a woman because I identify as a woman. I mean, what is the limiting principle or someone who says, I am woman, I'm a woman because I identify as a woman. I mean, what is the limiting principle? Or someone who says they're fat because they have anorexia. I don't know. No, I mean, that's like, you know, but, you know, what I think we do a bad job of is separating factual statements from political statements. So the statement trans women are women and Perrielle, Perrielle, that's the woman in the, in the mask there. She, she,

she always, she feels very strong with that, that trans women are women. And I'm always like, well, that's, that's a political statement. That's, you can't prove that. And it's not a political statement. Okay. Well, hold on. Let me, let me just, then you can, you can't prove that and it's not a political statement okay well hold on let me let me say then you can you can respond so there's a civil rights issue here which which just seems to me we're all um on the same side of which is that trans people are fighting for the end of bigotry and acceptance and to be able to live their lives in the same way as any other person without having to compromise their own sense of what they are and have the same fulfillment that anyone else would have. So when we say trans women are women, I believe what we're doing is supporting that.

If we all would just believe that, it would make that civil rights movement, it would really grease the rails for that civil rights movement. So we all kind not scientific and to and to and and and and Bo hit the nail on the head there's a lot of people say when you force it say you have to say this you're like listen I wasn't gonna bring this up at all it wasn't like a big issue that I even care about but now you're forcing me to say it and I in my heart I don't really think it's true and you can't prove to I'm all ears if you can prove to me that it's true then i will say it look but go ahead perry well let perry all perry wants to say brief and succinct go ahead perry all i mean first of all the onus is not on any person person to prove to you like what what your you know idea of gender is personally if they want me to if they want me to repeat it they have to prove it well i mean maybe you're wrong and you don't understand what gender is and you have antiquated ideas about what that may be. And you're considering biological sex, the same thing as

gender, which is a not true. And be like, why do you even care? Like, why does it even bother you? I just said, I let Bogan. It doesn't bother me at all. As a matter of fact, hold on, as you well know, behind the back of my trans friends, one of whom is very, very close. I use the correct pronouns. I speak about them as a she. I do everything to because I mean, I've said it before. I think respect is very much something you do outside of somebody's earshot. You know, the ultimate sign of respect is not what you do when you're in front of somebody. It's how you talk about them and essentially treat them when they would never know what's going on.

And I'm not talking to you. But that's not the same thing as saying that I believe that trans women are women. Define woman. What's the definition of woman? And I'm open to it. Just prove it to me. What does that mean? And I'm open to it. Just prove it to me. That's what I mean.

Prove it to you. OK, well, please. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I mean, I've said this before. It's whether or not trans women or women depends on the definition of women. And that's all it depends on. Well, what do you say? What is the definition of woman and who gets to decide what the definition of woman is? Well, in biology, we can't even agree what the definition of woman is well in biology we can't even agree on the definition of unique you know some people say unique means the only one of its kind and some people say unique just means unusual in biology we define it by the gamete so females produce the larger gamete and that that's how it's defined in biology. But I'm a definitional pluralist. I mean,

I don't think we have singular definitions for things in the world. But the reason that I think this is important is not because I want to be rude to somebody and say, you're not X, even though you think you are or whatever, it's because important questions or important political and ethical ramifications follow. So for example, with sports, that yes, we're talking about a small amount of people, but it is true that there are various competitive advantages that biological males have. Now, if you say trans women are women, period, then that means trans women should be allowed to play in women's sports. We can have that debate. That's a debate that I think people have to have, but that's a complicated issue. And it really is putting other biological

women at a competitive disadvantage. And there are plenty of peer-reviewed literature on this. I should say, I'm not an expert on this topic,. I don't want to pretend I'm an expert on this particular topic, but I have some views that I'm forming and I'm open to debate. I just think it's important to have open and respectful, even if vehement, disagreements about these things and not to force people to say things that I think and they think are not true. Mark, let me say what? Yeah, let me do. OK, Mark, go ahead. I mean, I think if a trans person comes out and says, I am a woman, I think, OK, we should respect that. And they are a woman. The whole sports debate is is a very tricky thing to talk about because I think a lot of people are going to say, well, I'm just going to say I'm trans

so I can play women's soccer or something. And I think that's just filling the space with something that's not an issue at all. I don't think that's ever going to happen. But yeah, I need to educate myself more on the topic of the whole sport thing. I don't really know. And I think that's probably the only situation, I, I need to educate myself more on the topic of like the whole sport thing. I don't really know. And I think that's probably the only situation though. No, I can see what prison. Oh, sure. Women's shelters, for example.

Right. So, yeah. Well, can I, can I add, can I add another situation to that? And then, and then I actually wanted to zoom it out for a second but one thing that gets said maybe it's by only extreme people but if you believe the line it's difficult to understand how you would distinguish it you're supposed to the logical conclusion is of this is if if you're a straight man you're supposed to be attracted to a woman regardless of whether or not she has a penis and that's where to me the whole thing just falls apart and becomes absurd although perriel with all seriousness said to me that's no you're supposed to be you're transphobic if you if you'd mind the penis you're transphobic i'm like well yeah if i if i thought um a trans woman was attractive and if i didn't know they were a trans woman found out

they had a penis i would suck that thing until the sun came out like i wouldn't care like honestly and i'm a straight male you know i'm you know would you apparently not well no if they were if they were a pretty woman hey whatever i don't care a dick's a dick i have one too it doesn't matter well well well can i just tell you marcus i don't know but i dick's a dick. I have one too. It doesn't matter. Well, can I just tell you, Marcus, I'm kind of exactly the same as you, but if I go home with a woman and I find out that she actually identifies as a man, I don't care either. I'll still fuck her.

There you go. If you're having fun, you're having fun. I don't care if she's having the best homosexual experience of her life. So go ahead, Beau. But, you know, Noam is using the argument, whether trans women are women to me, again, and I've said before, the truth or falsity of that statement rests on nothing more than how we define women. Okay. Words are defined by how they are used by society.

Okay. It's not up to you or I to define a word. Can I zoom out for a second? You're not attracted to them. It's not how we define the word woman. I want to zoom out because actually, I actually don't think we wanted to get into this particular. We do this every week.

No, no, no. But Perry, I'll use the word antiquated. And it immediately made me think of something that really bugs me. Part of the problem here is, first of all, the very conversation we're having, which is reasonable, could get people fired if they were having a different which. And that is a huge problem because it's causing self-censorship on an enormous scale. I mean, enormous scale. But for instance, in another matter, so Barack Obama was against gay marriage proudly, openly for a long time. And then one day he evolved and he's no longer against gay marriage. And then all of a sudden, anybody who didn't arrive at that

conclusion on the very same schedule as Barack Obama now believed an antiquated notion. So this idea of antiquated can be very, can be weaponized, you know, like you've come to the modern view on something and now anybody who've left behind has become antiquated. And I think that's unfair. Especially again, if you can't demonstrate something in an objective way. You know, people can just disagree. We don't allow people to disagree anymore. It's not about disagreeing. I think that, you know, questions about, quote unquote, proving you're a woman or. Well, how do you define woman, Perrielle? And why do you define it that way? Are you using Webster's dictionary? Are you using how the word is? how the word is not my definition well who gets to define what a woman is i think the person

no yeah i don't get to define myself as a space alien words have meanings based on how how they are used in society bread it means bread because the english speakers have decided that bread means bread english speakers have decided that the star that that allows for life on Earth is called the sun. So we call it the sun. Dan, you're underestimating. Pariel actually just had something brilliant because you can win any argument ever if you can simply redefine the words like you can. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a problem. Right. And I've had this argument before and they've said, well, actually, men can get pregnant if you define it this way. But then I could say, well, you're a wife beater if I define it as somebody who argues with their wife. So I do think we should respect language to a degree and recognize that we have these definitions that mean something, sometimes they change. Language changes. But words don't

mean whatever we want them to mean. And if I call you a eugenicist or a racist or something, and then I say, well, by eugenicist, I mean somebody who supports market capitalism, then that is unfair of me. And I think also there's also an interesting thing. A pet peeve of mine is, is when a word changes and leaves us with no remaining word to describe what it is we used to describe. So like an innocuous example is like Asian. Like, it's fine that we call people Asian now, but we don't. What is the word now for what we used to call, forgive me for saying it out loud, Oriental, which was, you know, people essentially descended of China, Asian. And it's like, well, Asian is much less precise. So now, so we didn't replace the word. We just, we just kind of, now we describe something bigger and now we are lumping in people from China

with people from India and Pakistan and they have nothing in common, but we don't include Israelis who are just as Asian as so. But another example is the word racism, where we used to know what it meant. And now all of a sudden, no, you can't be racist if you're you know, if you're this color and your hatred is of that color. And now so racism is currently defined as having power plus prejudice. I don't know if it was defined that way when we were kids. It's still not defined that way. You can't find that in any dictionary. But people will use that as a way to define away the problem. But you're saying so you're saying that if the dictionary changes it, then it's OK.

I don't think that gender like is about nobody's trying to change... We're off gender now. We're off gender. We're off gender. We're talking bigger concepts now. The idea of... Well, you can go back to gender if you want. But I'm saying... I don't think people are trying to switch words up on anybody. It's like if somebody... Exactly what they're doing. If somebody... Well, but if you...

What gender they are, then that's what gender they are. You know what gender they are. Okay, but honest question. What if I say I am a black man? I identify as a black man. I've always felt that I was a black man. Who are you to tell me I'm not a black man? I would imagine you would tell me I'm not a black man. And then we would get into a complicated conversation about what's the definition of race or something. Presumably you wouldn't allow me to self-identify myself. And if I said to you, you have to call me that, you would probably find that offensive, right? Or you would say,

I'm not going to because it's not true is that is that a fair statement i just think that it's you know kind of disingenuous to put that on the table when you're talking about trans people um well i would actually agree i'm not i wouldn't use the word disingenuous but i think there's no offense i'm not trying to be oh no no no i'm i'm i have the thick skin you You can, whatever. I like the debate. I would say the difference is that trans, I think we all agree, trans is a real thing. Sure, but it's real in that there's a lot of debate about the etiology. I don't really want to get into that, but you agree that it's real insofar as it's somebody who would be biologically defined as a female or a male identifying as the other sex, right? But that's what we're talking about. Yeah, but I meant in the sense that, I don't know if this is a direct answer,

but I just want to distinguish what I see as the flaw in the analogy, that trans is, let's just assume for the sake of argument it's it's genetic but it may not be but whatever sure okay so it's it's an expression of a real physiological reality i see what your body and and what is that they're black we they're probably just nuts you know it's not it's yeah okay but that's what people used to say about trans people is you're just nuts you're not that and you're just nuts and what people too to say about trans people is you're just nuts. You're not that and you're just nuts. And what people too. Yeah, exactly. So here's a question. What if it became more culture, you know, like more and more people felt as though they were another race, like they identified with

that culture and they really wanted to be a part of it. I think that's not that unreasonable. I know people who sort of identify with Japanese culture or something. So let's say they're Japanese. Pardon? But they don't think they're Japanese. Yeah, no, I understand that. But let's say that you get a small subset of people who think that they are or they want to be. Right. OK, well, again, I'm not I mean, I understand that's kind of a divisive comparison i'm just trying to get at these are complicated issues and i would like to be able to debate them i would like people to argue about them and a lot of the problem of course i feel like you're arguing me with me great is a lot of people they're afraid to talk about this. Excuse me, I'm sorry, Chris.

Privately, they tell you something. They'll say, hey, like, I think this or that was interesting or whatever. And then publicly, they say completely the opposite. Now, good old Marcus Monroe is not afraid to publicly say he will suck a dick. That's, I did hear that. I was attracted to the woman who had the dick.

And you're not the only one, by the way. There's many- I was gonna ask you a question. Very common fetish. So question, if that's your business and I have no problem with that at all, would you say it would be wrong for someone not to want to do that though? Let's say somebody said, you know what? I can't do that. I'm a heterosexual male and I don't want to do that. Do you think that that would be a shot? I would say just give it a try. No, give it a try.

I can't say indefinitely if it'll be wrong. I think if no, I mean, no, I, if you're not into something that you don't want to do, you don't have to do it. Okay. I've never done it, but I don't think i would i don't think it's in my uh future but the night is young hey that's fair i just wonder saying that it would be wrong not to not many yeah not many i mean i've seen a few people but look it's like one thing with twitter is it isn't the real world i mean you get these people who say the craziest shit,

and I don't think that is representative of what most people think. I don't think the average person would say that that's bigoted or phobic somehow not to want to do that. Who does Bo sound like? It's driving me insane. He looks like Lin-Manuel Miranda. I wish I knew who that was. He's the guy that wrote Hamilton. Oh. But you sound like somebody. I was going to say Dr. Phil, but that's not quite right.

So yesterday, yesterday we had an election where I think the guy, the Democrat ended up winning in New Jersey, but it was an unexpected speaker. Did they call that for the New Jersey? Yeah. I think the the democrat won in new jersey yeah and but of course the the big stories that the republican uh what's that yunkin won in virginia and i would guess that exactly what we're talking about specifically

when it comes to critical race theory in the schools whatever it is but even broader than that just the general disgust that people have with this very thing that we're talking about of being forced to um say things that they don't believe and and not being and being afraid to complain about things they want to complain about is responsible for that election um outcome i don't know much about that that wasn't on my list uh of talking points what do you think i i i hesitate about talking about the causes of vote patterns and specific elections because it is so easy to think you know what this thing that i really hate must be that's why this candidate won because he denounced it or whatever i i mean it's just it's so easy to come up with a story this candidate proves that my ideas are right and

if the republicans just did this then they would win every election um so i don't know enough about it i'd have on my on a related note my list did list uh the the winner of uh Boston mayoral race, the first Asian American mayor of Boston, Michelle Wu. I think it's, was it Wu? Michelle Wu? That's huge for Boston. But how, when did we stop making everything about the first, you know,

when Kamala won, it was like the first South Asian. I mean, how far do we want to slice this up? I mean, the first, you know, the first Serbo Croatian mayor of Albany. Yeah. Hopefully soon it won't be a big deal. Like if someone. Yeah. And I can I just can I just go back to just respond to a boss and we'll go back. So I think you're making a very, very, very, very smart point there, which is lost on most people.

And that is to be very humble about attribx thing of all the things Trump was, he wasn't anti-vax. As a matter of fact, he was, you know, he, this was his claim to Mount Rushmore was the operational war of speed, right? He loved the vaccine. And if, if Trump had been anti-vax, and then I tried to tell you, yeah, I see that his followers are anti-vax, but I don't really think it's because he's anti-vax. I think they would have been anti-vax and then i tried to tell you yeah i see that his followers are anti-vax but i don't really think it's because he's anti-vax i think they would have been anti-vax anyway you look at me like i was a fucking crazy person like what are you talking about like how of course it's trump's

fault they're anti-vax you know so you really never know what cause i do think on that trump thing i mean i do agree with you actually i've had conversations about that i do think on that Trump thing, I mean, I do agree with you. Actually, I've had conversations about that i wish we had the shazam worked for who people talk like because i would i would say this on the trump thing and then i'll let i'll let dan mark do you have to go if i if i had to no i thought maybe stephen king my students always no my students always said i sounded like a uh like a stone like a stoner like a surfer stoner kind of well you certainly do but but but there's somebody specifically like a particular individual yeah and i just can't it's not coming to mind so if i had if i had to construct a rationale as to why trump is responsible for the anti-vax, I would say that when he was tweeting things like free Michigan and sowing the seeds of an anti-establishment

mentality about the vaccine, that this just created a momentum, which just naturally kind of extended to, I'm not taking your fucking vaccine either. I'm not wearing your masks and I'm not doing anything you tell me to do. Right. Maybe. I think something that people have pointed out, which seems true to me, is that Trump isn't really much of a leader.

He's kind of a follower. He tells his base what they want to hear. He's not the kind of person who would come out and say, you guys all think this, but we need to do this instead. And I'm going to be a leader and I'm going to tell you the painful truth. So I think the fact is there was kind of already that sentiment that he was playing into, like he realized that at least a zealous part of his base was kind of, I don't know what you would call that sort of like anti-lockdown, anti-COVID is serious or something. Yeah.

And you can almost sympathize with, listen, I'm extremely pro-vax with this whole show. We were very early, we were pro-mask, we couldn't be more predictable left wing about everything COVID. But it was true that people in certain states were having wildly different day-to-day experiences with COVID than people in New York. And they were naturally feeling, why are you forcing this on us here? We almost know COVID because Cuomo, you know, blah, blah, blah. So, and, and so I could see how it sprung up. It's just, it having said that it's so weird weird that it became like everything has to be political, right? That's just it. Well, that's what disgusts me about it.

And it's sort of why I want to pay less attention to politics and more attention to science and philosophy. Because it's just like watching this sort of nightmare unfold in which you're, you know, you're politicizing masks and vaccines and tribal warfare and people are proud of getting no vaccine and people are proud of wearing a mask when they're in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere and taking a selfie you know it's just it's really irritating right it's like let's talk about the evidence. Let's try to be careful about this. I understand, like, I do think this. I'm vaxxed three times, right? I'm like a health neurotic. I'm all about vaccines.

But I do think people should try to understand that people are, humans are really sensitive about what we put into our body, right? That does feel like this, this like sort of like level of autonomy that's important. Like, hey, I get to pick what goes into my body. Well, I can understand Marcus Monroe. Perrielle, Perrielle, Perrielle is pretty easygoing about that, too. But go ahead. Go ahead. So just like I can understand why people would be alarmed by the idea of having to take a vaccine. I mean, I think we can debate whether you should have mandates. I think people over 25 should get vaccinated, but I do understand that kind of resistance and the concern about it. And I think it would be a lot wiser to attempt to

persuade people than to call them idiots or like, look at these mega suicide call, et cetera. I just don't like that way of attempting to deal with these issues. There's something, there's something disingenuous about the anti-vax movement, which is that they kind of looked into the fact that the, the Delta variant was having so many breakthrough infections and then they, and they wrapped themselves around what is a legit argument? Like, well, the vaccine doesn't really prevent infection that much anyway. So, but the fact is that at the time we thought that the vaccine shut down

infections, virtually a hundred percent, they were still anti-vax. Right. It's they're not, that's the reason they say that they're anti-vax or the reason they say that they should not take the vaccine is not the real reason. Nevertheless, they do have kind of a point about in, in certain contexts, especially vis-a-vis children though, although I'm going to get my kids, I'm going to get my kids vaccinated, but I get it. I get it.

But also isn't it like a little bit not true because first of all, they get a whole bunch of other vaccines, right? Yeah. Yeah, they do. There's a small group of people that are like completely anti-vaccine, whatever, fine. But that, so they're, they get all these other vaccines without even questioning it. No, Perrielle, but for two things, I mean, two obvious things come to mind. One is that we don't have years of experience with this vaccine. Right, right, right. But that was my next point is that, so then they say, oh, but it hasn't been approved yet. And then it gets approved and they're like,

oh, well, you know, they're corrupt anyway. No, but even though it's approved, we still don't have your, there are things which have been approved, which years later turned out to be quite dangerous. It's approved, but nevertheless, we don't have any longitudinal studies. But A and B, the risks apparently ostensibly, although I'm,

you know, I would, I think there's another side to that too, but the risks of young kids getting COVID is minuscule. And if the risks of the, if the risk against measles was minuscule, people might not want to give their kids the measles vaccine either. Part of that, you can't separate the, I mean, yes, we give vaccines, like we give our kids vaccines for smallpox or whatever it is, because we don't, or polio, because God forbid our kids get these diseases. But the truth is, the God's honest truth is that there are stats that show that COVID is less risky to children than the flu. And we do not make every kid get a flu shot. But don't you think that your risk is still 10 times less of winding up

in the hospital for children and adults if they're vaccinated? Isn't that- No, I don't think that's the case with kids, but whatever. The point is that- I mean, I just read that today. As you move down the age,

I've made this argument before that if the if the actual effect of covid. When it first hit the population was not skewed by age, but was simply across the board, the risk that it is to somebody 25. We would have done exactly nothing as a society to react to it. We would not have locked down. We would not have been having Operation Warp Speed. It would have been a disease like the Hong Kong flu when I was a kid, which people were on the lookout for. And we would have gone on with our lives. Everything about what we're doing on the low end of the age scale is, in a sense, affected by the stress and the PTSD of what it did to people 55, 60 and over and people with conditions. So it's complicated. But I'm getting my kids vaccinated.

Conversely, if the if the IFR of 20 year olds was what it was for 80 year olds, we would have went way farther the other way. Yeah. If this if this if this virus had killed children on a major, there would be no debates here about anything. Right, right. And I agree, it's complicated. I don't have strong views on some of these issues. I think one argument in favor of vaccinating younger people is that they can still operate as a vector, right?

So they might get it. It might not cause any harm to them, but they might pass it on. So there's always that debate. But the other side would say, well, yeah, they're passing it on to people who are vaccinated. So that's, you know, but there's a network effect. Right. That's they always I get in these debates and people say, well, if you're vaxxed, why do you care? And it's like because the more people who are vaxxed, you get closer to a kind of, you know, herd immunity. But it's a complicated issue. I just hate that people politicized it so much.

Let me give you the argument which informs my decision-making here. I've said this, I think, on one of the shows. For instance, Perrielle had COVID and she lost her sense of smell and taste.

I think she got it back. I know other people, I think she got it back. I know other people who've had COVID a year ago still don't have their sense. And to me, that indicates that this is a neurological effect here. And it's a neurological effect, which is quite obvious if you lose your sense of taste, but it might not be that obvious

if it hits part of your brain, which is not obvious, like IQ points or coordinate, who knows what could go wrong in your brain that you would never even really know that you were affected. Marcus Monroe had COVID. Let me just finish my point. I don't know that we really understand disease entirely. And the idea that my kids would get a disease, which has a once they test negative, it's done.

Like like every other disease we've ever dealt with. I'd be like, yeah, I guess I don't really need the vaccine because there's a lot of diseases like that. I don't that I don't test. So what do you want to say, Dan? Go ahead. I was going to say that our dear friend Marcus Monroe had a breakthrough case of covid. Well, despite being vaccinated, not once but twice with the vaccine. Did you get Marcus? I had Pfizer and I'm so happy I was vaccinated because if I was not, I had a breakthrough case.

It was so bad that if I wasn't vaccinated, I'm assuming I would have to have been in the hospital because I was I was out for two weeks. I didn't leave my bed. It's awful. Really? Oh, it's terrible. And do you put other than your fetish for trans women, is there any effects that you have had from the long term effects I had? I will taste and smell long term was just respiratory issues.

Like I would lose my breath. I have to admit, I've been I've been I've been, you know, unfair to Marcus. I like Bailey J out there. I said it. Okay. No. Okay. The question posed to me was if I was attracted to a woman found out she had a, why do you do this? He's about to tell us about the breakthrough infection. Can we stick to one thing? Go ahead. Yes. Yeah. So respiratory issues was the only thing that lasted uh up i

recently got my got it back like i was able to go on runs again um maybe uh like three to four weeks ago maybe it's good that you have an older older wife there you go another yeah she's uh she was a great nurse to me when i was down um and for how for how long were you unable to satisfy your wife well no i she's very satisfied because we you know yeah i have like a long pulley thing i can use and i just like touch her with six feet keep so by the way i you know now they finally approved that you can get you can mix vaccines and i would advise although don't sue me but i think everybody should get moderna i think it's been obvious for a long time that Moderna... Well, I would agree. At first, I thought

Pfizer was king. I thought Pfizer was the one you wanted to get, but I had got COVID. My wife didn't. She had Moderna. Well, Pfizer sounds like a king. King Pfizer. It almost sounds biblical. It does. It sounds better, but I got Moderna and then got Pfizer for my booster. You got Pfizer for your booster.

Yeah. I mix and matched. Because the data seems to show that Moderna is the best at preventing breakthrough infections. It seems to, there might be a slight advantage to mix and matching from what I've read. And then to tell you the truth,

it was just the Walgreens here only had Pfizer. Do you have any young kids? No, I'm childless. When you have young, you have young kids. It becomes, cause I like, I don't, I really don't want to get a breakthrough infection. Even if it's homeless, I really don't want my kids. I wouldn't want it. Yeah. I scheduled a, a booster.

The closest date they could give me was November 13th, but I think I'm getting the J&J boot. Like they didn't give me the option of picking it. And it said J&J. I said, I had the J&J originally. They said, okay, you're scheduled for a J&J booster. They did not give me on the dropdown menu or anything. There's no option to pick another.

I think you want a non J&J booster. I think that's what the evidence suggests. J&J is like a placebo, for Christ's sake. Look, a placebo doesn't give you a 102 fever. You got a 102 fever afterwards? Well, a 101 fever. And you know, for a

week after getting the shot, I couldn't go to the gym. Finally, I was able to get back and not go into the gym by choice. But that's a joke to my head. Placeb. But I just pick a stick in my act in the placebo's do give a certain number of people 102 fever. That's the whole point of placebo. Yeah, they do some weird shit. Yeah. I don't think a placebo can give you a real fever. No, they can. They can do really weird stuff. I guess. I i mean i'm not an expert on placebos but from what i've read yeah can we talk about bailey jay i mean how did you guys just glow i've mentioned

it before i've mentioned it before so we we gotta wrap up so so bo first of all you don't live in new york where do you live no i am in uh lewis delaware are you are you friendly with Coleman Hughes? I mean, I know of him and I've read some of his stuff and cordial in that sense, but I don't, I'm not like friends with him or anything. He's a friend of this show. He plays in our band. We have a band that plays in the Olive Tree above the Comedy Cellar on Monday. He plays trombone as well. And he plays.

Really? Yeah. What instrument does he play? He plays trombone. He went Really? Yeah. What instrument does he play? He plays trombone. He went to Juilliard before he became a national intellectual. What? Really? That's very talented. Where'd you grow up, Bo? Podunk town in

Michigan called Greenville. That probably explains, at least in part, the way you speak. Yeah, probably. It's something of an accent and then just a weird voice, I guess. Also, you do smoke pot or you don't? Honestly, not very much. And I don't think I have for multiple years. Never really cooperated with me. I'm already way too paranoid. Well, are you still canceled when it comes to being a professor?

Yes. Is that not on the books anymore? You don't think. I don't think I could get hired. I, there's this particular, there are a couple like, uh, websites dedicated to hating me, et cetera. And they're out there. So like, if you search me, you will find, you know, go to these websites and, you know, 50% of it is BS. And then all the other 50% is accurate, but kind of out of context.

And it makes me look really bad. And academia is just really bad. It's, I mean, I love professors and I love learning and teaching, but I don't like what's happened inside academia. And I'm saying this as I'm not like some, you know, populist conservative. I'm basically a moderate conservative slash classical liberal type guy. All of my friends are on the left, almost all of them, at least, you know, from anywhere from sort of like middle left, traditional Democrat, all the way to progressive. I have no problem with

that. I like to debate people. It's just some of the topics that I chose to write about and talk about, they're inflammatory and got me in trouble. And there are some people who really hate me and sent emails to my bosses, et cetera. And probably I'm just not going to get a job again. And academia that is. Well, what are you going to do? Um, I write and I do some editing work and then I'm actually working on a book. So I'm just doing research, reading, um, stuff like that. Try to make money. You have a big potential future in the pot. You know, your voice is so smoking. Well, no, I think, well, you, I don't know if that pays,

but you could, I think if you were a podcaster, your voice, I think the kids would, I don't know. You know what's odd? You say that, but I would always get complaints when I did podcast interviews because they didn't like my vocal fry is what they called it. I didn't even know actually what vocal fry was until so many people criticized me for it. How old are you too old middle-aged why i'm just curious you have like a young a younger vibe to you so i was just wondering okay i i i'll take that as a compliment i'm 41 okay it would be a compliment but not coming from marcus marcus is not much younger than you are i found marcus incredibly cordial no but you know he likes older anyway yeah i you know i usually have no tolerance i didn't

even notice your vocal fry i usually hate vocal fry ezra klein has a horrible vocal fry i can't i can't even listen to him but i i don't find your vocal fry and affectation. But usually I do find it to be affected. I don't, I can't. Like it's kind of like a put on, like I'm going to sound a certain way. Yeah. Like, I feel like if you went back in time with these people, there was a time when they had no vocal fry, then they fell into a different group of friends and they came out with it. Yeah.

As opposed to something that just happened organically anyway. So anyway, we have to go, but it was a pleasure to meet you. I appreciate it. I found your, your Twitter really sustained me through a, a year of COVID and I appreciate it. And if you ever do get to New York, you're one of the people I would love to meet, you know, so we could speak frankly. Absolutely.

Great. Did you ever, what's his name? What's his name? That guy from, yes, he was in town at City Winery. No, he didn't come, Rick Wakeman. Rick Wakeman, yeah. I appreciate talking and meeting. What was, what's everybody's name?

Marcus Monroe. Before I go. OK, hi. Hello. Dan Natterman here in the middle. All right. Periel Ashen Brand. Periel. Periel. You're the one who sent me the emails, Periel, right? OK. I have Periel. Let me say Periel that I know you disagreed with my views, but I appreciate the back and forth. And that's all that we can do is try to have a debate. And I don't care if it's vehement or not. That's what we should do. Absolutely. Periel is a rare breed of woke person

because she actually doesn't mind people who say the things that she hates. She's a woke person who believes in debate yes she's an odd duck and that's partly because her husband is a pretty right-wing guy and i think she's so ridiculous he is not a pretty right-wing guy you love to say that because you know it fucking enrages me but it's but it's couldn't be more conservative on like certain political issues i would say namely the middle east than i am but it's couldn't be more conservative on like certain political issues. I would say namely the Middle East than I am. But he's wildly liberal for everything social.

Nah. Anyway, not so much. I mean, I don't know if he would suck a girl's dick, but shy of that, I'd say. Well, that's not that's not a political position honestly can say i didn't think that was a topic that was going to come up that's the joy of the show it's really my statement by the way i don't think it was wrong i think if you're attracted to somebody who cares neither right nor wrong it's it's it's you're not alone um and it's it's neither right nor wrong it's just your uh proclivity and who knows if bailey jay and i never got together what would happen but

on the bailey jay thing who is bailey jay is a really hot trans woman okay super hot and and also has an attractive personality so dan well I don't know if she has a penis or not, but it's- Well, she certainly does. Oh, all right. So then- Certainly does. I mean, if she didn't, she wouldn't be famous because that's what sets her apart in the porno world.

I see. Okay. She's a porn actress. A penis wouldn't be my first choice of what would be under there. You know, I'm not hoping for that. Marcus, don't walk it back, Marcus. No, there. I'm not hoping for that. Marcus, don't walk it back, Marcus. No, no, I'm not walking.

Sounds like a walk back to. No, no, no, not a walk back. Definitely not a walk back. I'm not a walk back type of guy. Anyway, just be happy. Listen, it was a short there was a short time ago when the person on the podcast who admitted that they would suck a woman's dick is the one who would have been committing career suicide. And the person who was saying that, that is true. So, so, and, and as much as I might disagree with certain things, that is, I think a good,

a good direction for society. Yeah. I mean, it is nice. Totally agree. Yeah. Well, it's also a good portion of Jim Norton's act. Well, it is. All right. So I mean, it is nice. Totally agree. Yeah. Well, it's also a good portion of Jim Norton's act. Well, it is. Yes, it is. You're right. All right. I have to go. Bo, it was a pleasure to meet you. I appreciate it.

Have a good time in Las Vegas. Know him. I'll be there in a couple of weeks. All right. I'm going to check out that. Podcast at ComedyCellar.com for comments, suggestions. If you know who Bo Weingart sounds like, please let us know because it's been kind of driving me crazy the whole episode.

Thank you again. Thank you, Marcus Monroe. Hey, my pleasure to be here. Thank you, Dan. Where can we find you, Marcus? Instagram, at Marcus J. Monroe or just search Marcus Monroe. It should come up. Thank you so much, Perry. Oh, thank you, Dan Natterman. At Dan Natterman on Instagram and

Twitter and everything okay