The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Bonus Episode 11 with Dov Davidoff

Episode Date: September 21, 2020

Bonus Episode 11 with Dov Davidoff

We are on the air. This is live from the table, the bonus episode. Coming at you on the Riotcast Podcast Network, this is Dan Natterman, host of the bonus episode. With Dov Davidoff co-hosting the bonus episode. And we have Perry Lashinbrand, the producer and on-air personality. As I've said before, it didn't start out that way. It just evolved slowly but surely before we knew what was even happening.

She became an on-air presence, and now there's no turning back. No turning back. So welcome, everybody, to the bonus episode. We had on, by the way, we had on by the way we had on on the last episode we did the main episode if you will we had Peter Yarrow I don't know if you know who that is

who is Peter Yarrow then because even if I did know who it is the audience would need to want to know who it is well Peter Yarrow is the Peter in Peter Paul and Mary without him it would just be Paul and Mary which would be problematic. Wouldn't sound as good. So he played that role. He also wrote Puff the Magic Dragon, which was the group's biggest hit, I gather.

Puff the Magic Dragon. Was that about a drug tune? No, no. He explained that to us. Everybody thinks it's a drug tune. But he explained to us that it was just about the loss of innocence. That childhood. Boys, boys. The loss of childhood innocence. He said it was about bar mitzvahs. No, I don't think he said that.

He did say that. I don't recall that, but maybe he said that. But he was very, very liberal. I mean, ridiculously liberal. And, you know, out of respect that Noam didn't... Noam didn't excoriate the man

out of respect. Peter, Paul, and May, I mean, you know, we're not going to go after him. And, you know, his ideas are... I mean, he believes we should all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and we probably should. But if only it was practical. Yeah, I mean, he believes we should all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and we probably should. But if only it were practical. Yeah, I mean, the problem, the utopia is, I mean,

didn't we vet some of these models in the 60s? My mother was on a commune, you know, and so I was there. It's not a conceptual, you know, experience from reading about it. I was on the commune. And so it is there. It's not a conceptual experience from reading about it. I was on the commune. And so it is a wonderful idea. It's like a kibbutz in Israel. The problem is you can't scale that into a 10 million person city, given the nature of anonymity and given the nature of the human animal.

You have to create systems that are more accountable than generally just trusting one another. And, you know, you want to believe, but it's got to be anchored in the nature of the human animal. Well, anyway, he's a sweet man and, you know, he, he sang a song about bullying for us. That was, that was kind of long, but, but okay. I want to talk this week about this controversy with the movie Cuties. Dov, I don't know if you're familiar with the controversy. Well, I read up about it, but regardless of my familiarity,

we need to familiarize the listener. If you're not familiar with it, I will familiarize you with it. There's a movie called Cuties it's a French movie the French title is Mignon. Mignon. Yes but the English title is Cuties it's French with English subtitles and it's sparked controversy because it features girls 11 year old girls very young girls dancing they're very very scantily clad, shaking their high knees, spreading their legs, humping the dance floor, simulating sex to illustrate how young girls are being sexualized nowadays, and presenting what's actually going on. In other words, she's saying, this is what's going on, young girls are doing these sorts of things, they're seeking attention on social media,

they're seeking attention in general, by being sexy, by trying to be adult. And so she presented this. The only problem is, is now you have young girls. They're not naked. It's not technically child pornography, but they're doing very suggestive things. So now everybody's up in arms, or many people are up in arms. The critics generally like the film and say, this is art and this is presenting reality.

The critics are saying this is scandalous and they're exploiting the young girls in the film. these characters that it's almost like critics understand the nuance and the paradox and the messaging, but the people at home and young women don't. It's just like, you know, some dopey dealer on the Lower East Side doesn't understand. It's when you see people, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the old joke about Scarface was apparently you didn't see the end of the movie if you keep looking up to the main character. And if you're dealing with women that young or girls that young, they're not going to understand that what they're watching is, is, is illustrating something that we don't want to emulate. Right.

But putting aside the message of the movie and how people interpret it, what about the idea, to me, it all comes down to this. These young actresses, they're young. They were told to dance this way. Just, you know, you, you can't, you can't allow a young child to be naked in a movie dance this way. Just, you know, you can't allow a young child to be naked in a movie dancing that way. Should you, were these children harmed in any way by being made to dance this way, humping?

You know, in other words, is there, do we have to protect the actresses that were in the film? Did you watch the film? I watched some clips of it. The clips that I saw on Twitter. Is it pornographic? Is what? Is it pornographic?

It's what I described. It's 11-year-old girls twerking, humping the dance floor, smacking each other's asses, spreading their legs. I mean, I watched the trailer. I mean, it's difficult to speak about a film that you didn't see, right?

I don't think so. I don't think so because we're not talking about, well, let's take it for granted that the film is a statement against this sort of thing. Okay, but... It still leaves us with the issue that little girls were made to dance like this, and it's being filmed for everyone to see. Okay.

Well, in the article that I read about it, the director communicated part of the story as a lament for the loss of innocence. Yeah, absolutely. I think the theme of the movie is legitimate. But the point is, she couldn't have those girls naked up there dancing and say, well, I'm speaking against this. Right, right, right.

It's not pornography. So she's not allowed to make young girls do these sorts of things. So should you be allowed to have a young girl dance this way? Is it damaging to the actresses in the movie? It's an excellent question. And especially because it's in service of not wanting young women to behave that way.

It's almost a perfect vehicle for this sort of behavior. You know, but go ahead. I'm interested in Perrielle's perspective. Well, I want, it's not a documentary right i mean it's at it's it's a documentary it's not it was a script and and uh you know and a story that was that was fiction but based on whatever reality is out there but i it's a problem i mean i was initially going to say that, you know, they say the definition of pornography is, well, you know it when you see it, right? And that from what I watched, it looked like, well, maybe it's a little bit suggestive, but it seems like 11-year-old girls in this day and age i mean doesn't surprise me that

they're acting like that it didn't look pornographic but now when you're telling me that these you know i thought it was for some reason i thought it was a documentary but yeah i mean that's that's kind of fucking weird it's like let's make young girl actresses do things that are totally inappropriate. I mean, even more pornographic than that to, like, talk about, like, the child sex trade in, you know, Southeast Asia, right? Like, let's, I mean, it seems, I don't know, it seems very problematic to me. But that's why it's such a good question, right? Because if it is a well-done story and if the director is talking about how part of that, that it's at its core,

it laments a loss of innocence, which is a really interesting narrative. And in order to illustrate the loss of innocence, which is a really interesting narrative. And in order to illustrate the loss of innocence, you essentially have to kind of take away innocence from other little girls. I mean, if not take it away, right? No, nobody would argue that you should be able to do that in service of art. It's to what, where is the line and how close to it can you get without it being a net negative, right?

I mean. I feel like if you want to get 15-year-old girls who look really young to do that, like. Even at 15, we're still left with a similar question about, I mean, perhaps. No, no, I agree. It's perhaps it's less, you know, difficult to deal with than for an 11 year old, but it's a, it's a fascinating question because if you're making art in service of a reasonably positive message and or legitimate social commentary,

how far, where is the line? The line is, I mean, the line I think is very clear. I mean, you can't sacrifice children's innocence to make a movie about sacrificing children. But have they sacrificed their innocence? Right, that's the question. I agree. If you were actually sacrificing your innocence,

then you could not do it. That line would be clear. I mean, I think if you're sexualizing... Sorry. What constitutes sacrifice is the question? Sexualizing 11-year-old girls in any way, shape, or form, I think... What constitutes sexualizing them? I mean, you know, if they just... If their dance were relatively innocent, but maybe a little booty shake here and there, like in the movie Little Miss Sunshine at the end.

Nobody complained about that. Right. But, you know, at some point, you know, there's a line. Look, listen, you see these, like, children, these shows about, like like the children Beauty pageant Those are creepy as fuck yeah I mean this stuff is problematic There's just no

You know it just fucking is It's like You start sexualizing Young girls And You know you can't get that back How old were you when you realized that you were a very sexually precocious young girl, if I remember?

I was like Dove. I lost my virginity to whorehouse in Mexico when I was 12. My mother took me. When did you realize,ry l that you could use your physical attributes to get what you want wait a second i will answer that question and find out early how to open doors with just a smile if you're i'm going to answer that question and the answer might surprise you but could you imagine if what I just said was

true that I lost my virginity in a whorehouse in Mexico when I was 12 maybe 13 years old and like yeah the reaction well that's because it would be utterly bizarre it would be so bizarre it would be so bizarre

you'd be the only person of all time, the only female to have lost her virginity it just doesn't happen yeah women I guess now and then utilize escort services but also you know having watched

cowboy movies and all you could see you could see you could see a kid a precocious 13 year old you know almost like with a with a small six gun or something we've all seen like there are 13 year olds that could commit adult crimes you know and so and so depending on what's your socioeconomic situation is and how cheap life is, depending on where you come from, you could see a 13, 14, 15-year-old behaving in ways that would horrify somebody from, you know...

But not a girl going into a... Not a girl. Not a girl. No, no, no. I mean a young man, a pistolero. A young man. When I walked into that whorehouse,

I had like one of those... you know, what is it? I don't know what you call that. Well, yeah, a strip of bullets, like a Mexican pistolero, you know, on a hat. And I was spinning two revolvers when I walked in. But it's, no, certainly as a woman, you couldn't even, I don't, one could not even conceive of a situation. One of the greatest stories ever. If there was a girl that said at 13, she went into a whorehouse to get laid.

I mean, it would be unbelievable. Anyway, but at what age, Farrah, did you realize what you had between your legs was more than just a place to go to the bathroom? Okay, let's just acknowledge what an incredibly uh what an incredibly severe double standard that is because i think it contributes to everything else we're talking about i was very um i have to say very surprised to discover that um that was a thing that was real and you know I was in college because I was a really big tomboy in high school and all my friends were guys and I had a boyfriend who was didn't live near me

and all the guys knew that so nobody was actively trying to fuck me and I mean maybe I knew I was like cute or whatever but I never um sort of identified my it was more about my personality than what I looked like and it wasn't until I was really probably 18 or 19 years old that I sort of realized that I was That you could exchange that you could exchange it exchange it for goods and services Yeah Well

Goods, services, then backstage passes Backstage passes, different things you could maybe get by when another guy would have to pay for a ticket you could figure something out Yeah, like you get hold of the speeding and yet maybe you wouldn't have to pay the speeding ticket i was really in my 20s um by the time that that resonated in any real way when i moved to la to try and you know start working after i finished graduate school. And it was really,

it's really horrifying to discover that about yourself in some way when you're trying to be professional and sort of- Yeah, you grew up in Queens, right? Yeah, so I was always like- With the exception of the Eagles song. Peri-L just seems to find out late.

It's not that interesting though. And it's not that, you know, it's sort of a bummer to like sort of discover that, you know, you think you're this interesting, funny, smart person. And maybe, you know, maybe in fact you're not. In my case, I think I was. And you see that with a lot of girls that, you know, they just think the world is a nice place and people are friendly. Yeah.

You know, and they don't get it. Right. But in Perrielle's case, she was smart, interesting, and they don't get it. Right. But in Perrielle's case, she was smart, interesting, and funny, and attractive. But I think certainly there are a number of scenarios, and especially in Hollywood, and I've experienced it, you know, I've experienced women sort of, and men, but women more so in this regard, having an unrealistic sense of their own level of interest based on people that were engaged for other reasons. But that doesn't mean that there aren't women that are genuinely interesting. It just means there are some people that have lied to themselves and as human beings tend to do if they aren't curious enough to get next to a level of self-awareness that bordering on reality. I mean, we've talked about this before on the show that, you know, I was in my 20s and, you know, I mean, I remember like working my ass off to get this meeting and walking into a room and I must've been 25 years old and they're like, Whoa,

I didn't know they made hot writers. Ready to shake it, babe. What? Luckily these French girls are learning that at 11 years old. I wonder what these French actresses, these 11-year-old or 12-year-old actresses, if they even knew the significance of what they were doing. No, how could they?

How could they? Maybe the director explained to them, look, here's the thing. You're going to be humping this action that you're doing on the floor this up and down motion you know what never mind just do the motion no but you couldn't

that's a little weird do they even understand the significance of any of those I mean you hope not right I don't know this movie sounds fucked up it's weird to direct a child to do things and you know what they're doing

and the cameraman know what they're doing. Yeah, I mean, this is fucked up. At least somebody on that set. Isn't this along the lines of that? Dan, what was that other film that they had a lot of teenagers and the, I don't watch a lot of television,

but I think it was on HBO, Dan. You mentioned it. It's like, they were teenagers. They weren't 11 years old, but they were, they were young and behaving. Actually,

there was one peri-el back in the day. It was like a skater kid movie in New York where there were 15 kids. Yeah, that was kids. Kids among other films that sort of bordered on what is it that we're watching and what kind of story are we trying to tell

and what are we willing to communicate on screen and how young are we willing to go in kids i think the actors were a little bit older but they were i think you know the characters were younger but the actors were older i believe right right that's what i was saying before what was what's that show to catch a predator you guys know what that show They use the girl as the bait who is actually of age. Yeah. So they have like an undercover cop sending messages to an alleged pedophile.

And then the pedophile comes to the house and the undercover cop is sitting there being like, okay, we're ready to do this. I don't think it was the cop here. I think it was Chris Hansen, the host, and the guy was on film. Chris Hansen is hiding. He's not a cop. He's just the host. Yeah, well, right. Periel is saying that the

perp walks into a house. It's not Chris Hansen waiting there. Generally, it's some actor that's 18 playing a 14 or 15-year-old. Right. Like, you're not having, like, a 9-year-old being like, okay, let's fuck. Right. Exactly. Now, I had a joke about

that in my act where I said, you know, if you ever meet a 13-year-old girl online and she invites you over, just in case, bring a headshot of Chris Hansen. That way, you can say, oh, I knew it invites you over just in case, bring a headshot of Chris. That way, you can say, oh, I knew it was you. I just wanted your autograph.

Go on. 13-year-old. You got to break into the business however you can. I knew it was you. I didn't think I knew that this was... I'll be on my way. So that was a joke

that I had in my act that's a fine joke it's a good joke excuse me speaking of the jokes you know I have I haven't done stand up since March 13th and I have two headline gigs coming up the week after

next week back to the back at Helium inilly um next yeah on the first week in october actually the first week in october is at comics in mohegan sun in connecticut and then and then helium in philly but i don't know we'll see i think we've already touched on this we don't need to talk about it i've been doing comedy as I said in the park and that's part of the reason my voice is a little bit not good tonight because you have to

scream because the mic doesn't work very well how much of it then how many sets do you think have you been doing it once a week once a week yeah once a week when I took my first 45 minute set in October doing something up in the Hartford area

for the guy that books comics. Is there any sort of anxiety associated with doing 45 right off the bat? Well, it's not until mid-October, so it's far away enough that the anxiety is not there yet, but there will be, no question. I mean, I'm anxious anyway,

but it'll be probably magnified by the fact that I haven't done 45 in a while. On the other hand, you know, the audience, I assume, will be understanding. No, no, I agree. I don't think that there's any legitimate, you know, cause for anxiety

as much as, you know, having, for me, to have to go up and do five hours that weekend is a little bit tweaky, having not done it at all. I mean, anxiety also maybe just because of COVID, no? No, not for me. No, you're not worried about that at all? No, I didn't even think about it. It didn't even cross my mind. I just don't want to disappoint people. Are you serious or are you fucking with me? No, dead serious. It didn't even cross my mind.

Well, I've been taking the subway and so like I've been sort of, and I've been going to stores. Granted, I wear a mask, but you know, little by little you get used to the idea of being around people. It's not quite as scary. The know, the gig I'm doing,

it's like a capacity is limited, which is good because nobody, I don't draw anyway. So at least this time I'll have an excuse. But yeah, I think it's like 60 people maximum at this particular venue. The pay is not very good as you would imagine. But so I'm not terribly concerned about that and also it's at some point we as we've been saying is the point we've been making over and over is at some point we gotta kind of slowly but surely get back to to the world right um yeah i um i mean the three of us are not elderly and and I think we're all in good, decent health.

So chances are. Well, Perrie, you've already had it. I have antibodies. You have antibodies. Yeah. Dove is a robust guy. He's very robust. He's good health.

He doesn't have diabetes. He's not obese. I have high cholesterol. I take Lipitor. Oh, you take the Tor, huh? Yeah. I don't know if that's com Lipitor. Oh, you take the Tor, huh? Yeah. I don't know if that's comorbidity. Yeah, no, no.

No, I'm not suggesting it is. I was just surprised that I have to take it. Anyway. Isn't there something about how to take a Lipitor? Was it like a stark reminder of getting older? No. Even though it's not that big a deal, but it is sort of a reminder that, oh, shit. Look, it's definitely a reminder that things can go the other way on you, even if you stay relatively healthy.

But it's also a reminder at how limited your ability to counteract that which is the case genetically, you know, it's, I mean, I live in such a way that I should not have a cholesterol situation, but it's, it's genetic. What do they call that? What's that? Grandpa Jack for you. That's Grandpa Jack. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's on the, but yeah, no, no. Yeah. I, what was i can say oh this is what i wanted to say that um i also had a joke about how um when i think back to my younger days and how many opportunities um you know how many how many blow jobs i could to, you know, probably have my career skyrocket. You know, and I always said no, and I always maintained my integrity.

Yeah. I can't tell you how much I regret that now. That's funny. Well, you know. That's a good joke. It's true. I don't know if you can necessarily blowjob your way to the top in this.

You can make a decent amount of progress by being, I mean, okay, let me just say this. You know how many guys I see? You have to be good enough, but there's a lot of people that are good enough. So once you're good enough, now, you know, talent-wise, now you're in a pool of however many people, and so once you're good enough now you're you know talent

wise now you're in a pool of however many people and now you got to distinguish yourself and part of that distinguishing yourself you know could be knowing the right people dating the right person that could certainly help absolutely but you have to you have to at least be in the pool of people that are talented enough to then utilize right right But the presumption is that Perriell was in that pool and had she just gotten over the obstacle that was blowing people that she wasn't actually interested in just for things,

that she'd gotten over that. And she got over the notion of not being a whore. Who knows what could have happened? I mean, do you know how many people I slept with that were like so fucking useless? Right, right, right.

I don't know. I would actually be curious. I mean, is your number enough? We've had this discussion before or not, but is your number above 50? No, no, my number is not above 50.

Is it over 30? And how long have you been married? I mean, because I think we'd have to, Dan, we'd have to track that. She's 42 or something. I'm coming to be 45. I'm almost 45. Right.

Okay. So you're married at 35. So those 50, over 50 men between the't get she didn't get hopping until she was already in college then which i lost my virginity when i was 16 i think you're talking five guys a year and that's if she stayed single the whole time which means there were probably periods where she just never stopped banging you know if she had a relationship or two, by the time she got married at 35, that means she had two six-month clips where her bed was full every other night.

There were years where it was like, it was like Grand Central Station going in and out. Oh, for God's sake. It was like a crowded, it was a crowded subway train in Perio's bedroom. I heard two guys bumped into one another, one on the way out, one on the way in. She was very active, very active.

This show, we don't slut shame on this show. We are a sex positive show. Yeah. And women have the right to express themselves sexually. I'm just saying, I wish I had expressed myself sexually with certain... With guys who could help.

Yeah. Well, you know, you're attracted to who you're attracted to, I guess. Not necessarily... Yeah, but, you know, who gives a shit? What's one extra blowjob, you know? Well, you know, you say that, but perhaps, and it's that term externality, which is the unintended consequences of a thing. It's like, had you gone the route where you compromise your integrity more readily, I don't know, maybe you'd be on heroin in a big house in the hills right now. I mean, I hope not. But I think there are a lot of people who, what's it, the frog in the hot water den? Like the frog doesn't know it's boiling yet, you know, until the water starts to heat up.

Integrity is a funny thing that way. Yeah, but you know what? I mean, you know, I'm being funny, but I'm also being serious because, I don't know. I think that, you know, don't we compromise our fucking integrity all the time to do shit we don't want to do? It's a matter of degrees, right? Because you could take that argument and use

it to, you can use it to have no regard for, you know, the whole climate change scenario and doing our part, whatever that looks like. It's choose your hypocrisy. I mean, if you wear leather shoes and even if you get on the subway and we're using energy, we're not living in cardboard boxes. You got to choose it because at the end of that, if it's, if the rationalization is, you know, what am I going to do? What am I going

to help? Well, then, you know, it's the end of the world that much sooner. And so we all have to choose to try to create some integrity, though it's going to inevitably compromise at some point somewhere. But you see people that really just can't wait to compromise it. And we all can't stand them. So you want to err on not compromising it. I'm talking to you, Perry L. You're a producer, on-air personality, live from the table. You have a, I don't know what you do for money, actually, because this doesn't pay anything.

I guess you're a wife and mother so that's that's um that's important and you took out a couple of books that that um you know that did all right i guess it is it is it is you you beat the odds in many ways it's just in terms of the larger question about integrity it's got to hold on to it whenever you reasonably can. I'm just saying it's overrated. I know you mean- It's not too late if you really feel that way. It's not too late.

If you feel that way, it's not too late. I'm sure your husband would understand. My husband's like, go for it, honey. Huh? Your husband said, okay well then it's not too late if that's the route you wish to take again i don't know if it's quite that simple um but in any case um what uh what any other uh topics this week that are uh that need to be discussed be it either personal Dove is right now he's living with his ex-wife

it's not so much living you know I'm my structure the building that I've been building is now up and I hope to have some specific guidance soon in terms of,

I don't want to get too far into the business and bore people, but, but it's you, you have a construction loan. There's the acquisition. Then there's the construction process. And then there's a permanent, which takes out the construction loan. Long story short. I don't know where I want to go. It's not a function of of money if i don't have to be the kid in the city every night and i can spend more time with my kid and things are amicable enough i'm paying for this house i'm in regardless you know and so whether i'm here or not

so anyway but i'll actually probably by the end of this month, I'll be at a I was going to do a six month thing. I don't want to sign a long lease, but it's a pretty cool building on Bowery. And I mean, apartments now in the city are going for half of what they were in terms of Airbnb, not leases. Leases are down by 10 percent. But but in terms of Airbnb stuff. So anyway, I mean, if that's engaging at all for anybody. You think, I mean- You don't want to Airbnb it for a few months until you figure out where- Well, I don't want to sign a lease and I don't want to buy a place in New York City right now

because I think that you can get much greater utility with capital and so if you have x amount of dough whatever that number is there are things that you can do with it in this environment that that you may not be able to do 12 months from now or 24 months from now or 12 months ago so you you're living with jessica you i obviously you have your own room. I have my own room, baby. What interaction is there between you and her, other than when you're kind of both with the kid, if there's any interaction? There's not a lot of interaction. I'm with my kid, or she's with him,

or we're with them together. We're okay with one another. The notion that we thought this marriage would work as we deal with one another on a regular basis, the ridiculousness of that notion becomes apparent. But I don't know. I mean, it becomes that much more apparent to me that the human animal doesn't change. At our best, we can mitigate parts of who we are so that we can fit ourselves better into the situation or the context or behave in some way to achieve an objective. But we don't fundamentally change. Even an alcoholic that stops drinking has not fundamentally changed. They've simply stopped drinking and gotten a hold of compulsivity and addiction.

But it's very unusual for people to break up and be able to have such an amicable relationship. I guess so. I mean, I, yeah, we just sort of, you know, there was never a, I guess some, it depends on what, how the breakup comes about, right? Like if you, if somebody is caught having an affair or there's some major transgression and there's big heartbreak, it's like we've been through three couples therapists. It's just the personality. She's, she's imperfect. No, I mean, I'm sort of making a joke. We're all imperfect, but it's, it's yeah, I'm dealing with a Canadian, you understand?

She's a white cracker, and she's not warm, and she's sort of defensive. And also, she's a good person, and she's, you know, she's a lovely maternal figure. Not for me, but for the boy. Where's your marriage at, Perrielle? Are things going well in your relationship? We just had our 10-year

anniversary. Wow. That's a big milestone. Yeah, I mean... Yeah, you seem thrilled. I just, it's a real, I just won the lottery kind of expression. Look, we've been cooped up together for. Of course, of course.

Of course. How could you feel anything but, you know don't know paradox and like yeah listen you know he i love him and he's wonderful in a million different ways but you't think i'm an easy person well i keep looking for and dan do you know if you're if you're sort of um flipping through the rolodex in your mind of married couples how many and i know you have a jokes about this and a number of comedians do because it's it would be unreasonable to not write a joke about things that are as as I mean, is there any more comedic idea than the notion of marriage in the face of all of the evidence to the contrary, that marriage is going to be easy, work well, and or successful. It's Dan's joke about the car. Somebody told you. Great joke. It's a great joke.

Well, it writes itself. Not really, but yeah. When people get into marriage, I think we just psychologically were designed to have unrealistic expectations. That's just the human kind of human psychology. You fall in love and you think, well, it's going to be this way forever. And, you know, and it isn't. But do you think that some people have relationships that are just easy? Like they get along?

I mean, you read about these couples. Yes, yes. I look. You're out there somewhere. The word easy being a relative term, right? I mean, it's not genuinely without any issue, but relative to people that have that struggle with, I've talked to people who are in long-term relationships and

they'll say it was it's been really really difficult it took a lot of work and then other people are like no it's it's not that difficult yeah and we have a lot of you know shared something interests and or i don't know i guess some mutual respect is helpful I heard a term you heard the term inference patterns somebody was describing their inability to communicate during a conversation as as um the other person in the conversation. The two of them had incredibly different inference patterns. And I thought, that's the thing.

Our inference patterns are so different that if I were to say to you, that thing was easy to accomplish. Anything that I say can be interpreted if, you know, it's the classic sort of New York person going to California and somebody goes, hey, what's going on? And everybody's like, calm down, man. It's like there are different inference patterns that are, you know,

associated with the way we think about the world and then how we try to communicate what we think. And so something that I may experience as delightful, somebody else experiences as offensive. And that would be a very different inference pattern because we've both seen or heard the same thing. Anyway, you'd want inference patterns to line up enough so that you feel like you're not alone while in the relationship. And I feel I've always felt alone in the relationship.

So we have different inference patterns. But you don't really know in the beginning, right? No. Well, no, you don't know. And you don't know to what degree. And the only way you'll ever really know is if you try to relationships too early then you never overcome your inability to manage yourself and so I've always

you know I've always wondered like if somebody came from a family where nothing's perfect but if you came if you had two pretty good models as it in terms of the way to conduct yourself when things are challenging emotionally and psychologically, how much more likely would you be to sustain relationships without a lot of drama?

And how much more likely would you be to be in a marriage that doesn't come to an end until one of you dies? Right. I also think that when people get into marriages, they're not thinking about any of those things. Well, they should be. They should be. Maybe be maybe they are i mean i don't know my husband asks me from time to time you know if you knew because he i've said this before but he was a one-night stand or supposed to be i thought he was a one-night stand right and he the beginning of our relationship was um you know very lustful if you will

so so much lust if you knew everything you knew now 10 years ago would you have married me and we're both like no absolutely No, like not a fucking chance. Right. I feel like that about, about, about in my marriage. I feel like that. Right. That's not helpful for me because you're getting divorced. Well, no, but, but perhaps it's, it's not, but it's a very relatable idea. And I think, and again, it's a matter of degrees. And I don't know.

It's a great, it's one of the great mysteries. You know, there's subatomic particle physics. There's dark matter. You know, there's how certain people ended up doing okay and show business and then there's there are relationships you know it's like it's it's you know you know who seems the happiest though people who have gotten divorced and then gotten remarried. Well, hopefully you learn enough about the struggle. Again, it's that thing if I had it to do over

scenario. Not me, but anybody. You do have it to do over. I do in this case, but you hope that your mistakes would be of a higher quality. And so, and the result would be that you would find out before you know

that you'd be able to determine with greater effectiveness whether or not your inference patterns um land to the degree that you need them to you know because there are a lot of areas where that whole notion that women are from mars men are from Venus thing. It's not just men and women, it's people, but especially men and women. On the flip side of that, you know, I really do think that, I mean, maybe Corona notwithstanding that, you know, nobody's forcing anybody to be in anything for the most part, right? Like I wake up every day and I decide to be in this relationship. And, you know, so it is. Again, so, so, so do I think most people.

So in that way, it's very freeing. Like nobody's forcing us to stay. That's a healthy idea, you know, because that idea is part of a personal responsibility kind of reflection. And it's like, and it resets our perspective. It's hard to continue to feel bad for oneself or to say this. Somebody once said, you should never complain about anything without doing something about it. Right?

It's like you should, anytime you come, I have a complaint out loud. I should, the subsequent followup should always 100% time be, how does this not happen again tomorrow? No, I agree with you.

Period. You're fired. Got to take action. No, I'm kidding, of course. And I don't even have that power. But I was going to say something else of a less sticky, more profound nature. You can't just leave without affecting your child.

Dove did it right. Dove's kid is too young to know anything. He doesn't know that parents are supposed to be together. He's starting, I guess, to perceive the world right now.

When he comes by, he says hello. the world right now. And now, you know, he comes by when he comes by, says hello. My husband says to me all the time. Sorry, go ahead. Give him a toy and get the hell out. That's not true. Right, but my husband says to me all the time that the only reason

he's still with me is because we have a kid. Right. Yeah. But that's a promise. So your son will not know the pain of their parents breaking up because they were broken up from the beginning. So I think that there's something to be said for that, I would think. Well, you know, assuming that that's the time you get there,

but there's something to be said for departing at any time if you're deeply unhappy and it's a net negative for the kid. Yeah, but I think in your case, I think there's no point in prolonging a marriage that you felt was unsavable. Right. Because I think for the kid kid this was the best way but I'll tell you

it makes me think I become much more conservative when I think about conservative in the context of nuclear families and all like yes it takes a village and I wish everybody were on top of everybody in terms of help

and guidance for each other's children and awareness. But it's raising a kid. It's no joke, man. I mean, it's serious shit. And when young people, when you go about this thing and you don't think, look, if the marriage fails, if it fails and hopefully two people find a way to co-parent as best they can. Well, the cavalier notion of, I don't need him. I don't need a man, you know, to have a child that's technically correct. But I think it's a horrendous idea in terms of the probability of a successful outcome. You're really starting in a very poor place. It's tough enough when you have two parents that are up to the task.

But anyway, just a side thought as an adult with a kid. By the way, loving fatherhood, even if marriage was not his cup of tea. Yeah, I love my kid, yeah. My son is a masculine child. I knew it right from a young age.

Because I follow his ex on Instagram and I see a lot of pictures of the kid. And the kid is always surrounded by women. He's a masculine, masculine child. I mean, they love him. I suspect he will be whether he's gay or straight

in either case, he will get a lot of action. We don't know if that's a good thing. I just hope the kid can concentrate and sit at a desk in some educational institution and not run his mouth. Hopefully, he'll be able to do the right thing. I don't know.

Knock on wood. I'm not sure knock on wood is the correct. Yeah, I know. Knock on wood is when you say something bad and you don't. Knock on wood is when you say, everything's on wood is when you say everything's going great you feel like it's a jinx right right knock on wood yeah you're right

that was not used you're not using it correctly but I don't think it's bad to use it incorrectly it's not good to use it incorrectly it's of no no it is it is of something I don't know what it is of, but it's of something. We should all try to use everything correctly

provided that that's possible. I mean, you can't just... Yeah, I mean, you can't just, like, say phrases. Yeah. Anyhow. Yeah, I was trying to think of a phrase.

Yeah, sorry. i'm so um so out of it i was taking a nap right just to maybe end a little bit with some politics can't some really great american that everybody respects step up to the plate and say hey you know what i'm i'm throwing my hat into the ring. There's got to be somebody out there that everybody like that they ran. Everybody be like, because nobody wants. I mean, there are people that love Trump. We don't have an active

third party. We don't have an active third party in this country. I saw a bumper sticker. It said any functional adult 2020. That bumper sticker, that joke's been around for years. Oh, has it really? Oh, I didn't know.

In 2016, they... No, let me know. But who, if there's anybody you can think of that they stepped forward, I'm thinking Sully. Remember Sully, the Miracle on the Hudson guy? I don't even need to know his political views. He's got me. He's got me. He's got me.

What about Cuomo? What about Cuomo? I'm sorry. What's that? What about Cuomo? I don't know how respected he is by the right wing. What about Cuomo, Kasich, those centrist guys? Look, give me Obama.

Give me Clinton. I mean, compared to the hard left right now, Obama and Clinton are like centrist Republicans. They're not eligible. They had two terms. I don't know if the rule is you have to have, you can't have two terms. You can't come back, right? Executively, or if you just can't have more than two terms in your whole life. I don't think you can have more than two terms.

If you're a mayor, I think if you're a mayor and you're off one term, you could come back again. Or the president. I don't think you can do that as president. Although Churchill, didn't Churchill do that? That's England. I understand it's England. I just thought that it was interesting.

But it's got to be somebody out there that if they step up to the plate and said, okay, you know what? I'm fine. I'm in. You got it. All right, I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it.

Well, Bloomberg tried that. Yeah, it didn't work. But Bloomberg doesn't have the kind. I'm talking about a guy that probably doesn't exist. I think Sully would be an example. Sully would fit the bill. Everybody would like to love Sully. You need a calm hand on the joystick in a tight situation.

Sully would be the guy. You know, but there may not be. I mean, if you brought George Washington back from the dead, he probably could win the election. Maybe even George Clooney, for God's sake. I mean, anybody, anybody, any George, any George you can think of might be better than what's going on. No, but seriously, I mean, kanye west going to throw this election

did donald trump put kanye west up to running so that biden won't win i mean is that just you think that he could generate what i think that he could actually you think that he could actually, you think that he could generate enough, that he would pull enough votes from the left that it would increase Trump's chances of being reelected? I mean, I don't know. I mean, sure. Yeah. Well, who knows? Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I can't imagine anybody with a half a fucking brain cell voting for Kanye. Well, you can imagine them voting for Trump? Well, yeah, I could imagine them voting for Trump. I'm not saying it's a For a guy who was a rapper who's hollering about shoes and has not only zero experience in politics, but every time he talks seems to not understand what is actually taking place, I could not imagine voting for that guy.

Isn't that guy running our country right now? Well, that, yeah, to some degree. To some degree, yeah. No, I see your point. I just, I guess the stark difference for me was that Trump did not seem like a person who couldn't sell someone on voting for him. Kanye feels erratic to me, not erratic in the way that Trump feels erratic. Trump feels like a guy who gets up in the morning and works hard and will show up in an office somewhere. Kanye, I don't know what he's talking about. I heard him yelling on a radio show about companies not giving him enough money

to design sneakers um so yeah i mean clearly you can be crazy and get elected but uh no he seems more unfit than most and including trump to me dan anything yeah i would i would agree with that. And I can't imagine, I mean, does even the black community like him? Because now they see him as a- Wow, he's wearing a MAGA hat. I mean, what does the black community want with Kanye? I mean, everybody appreciates his music. You can't say he's not a talented producer and performer.

Politically, I don't even know what he's talking about. Whereas Trump, I do know what he's talking about. I don't know what he's talking about. Whereas Trump, I do know what he's talking about. I don't know what he's talking about. When you build a wall, you know what you're talking about. It's a wall. When you're like, we're going to do this. Whatever he's saying

this is, you might disagree with him, but you know what he's saying. He has clear ideas about a lot of things. Clearly, he has clear ideas about immigration, clear ideas about abortion, even though it's hard to believe he really believes it. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Second Amendment, he's been super clear about a number of things.

He's very clear about gun rights. He's clear about a lot of things. He said if you knock down another statue, you'll do 10 years in prison. I mean, he's talked about a lot of things. He said if you knock down another statue, you'll do 10 years in prison. I mean, he says clear shit. But he's, you know, he's got a personality disorder. He has a huge daddy. Yeah.

He's a narcissist. That being said, you could conceive of a very effective leader who is also a narcissist that doesn't. But yeah, no, no. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Listen, I don't know what's going on in our political system. I don't know how the left, the best they've been able to do is generate somebody who really genuinely feels like they are not up to the job. When I watch Biden, I see an old man. I'm not saying that he, that the, the, the enemy of my enemy isn't my friend. I'm seeing that is that, that's the, you know, you know what I'm saying. I believe that's all they could come up with, but. Yeah, that's hard to believe. It's hard to believe. It's, it's the, you know, you know what I'm saying. I believe that's all they could come up with, but.

Yeah, that's hard to believe. It's hard to believe. It's, it's, or it's hard to believe what, what, you know, I don't understand the primary process. I mean, it's a, it's a rabbit hole to, to, that you need to go down to really understand the genesis of that entire process and how each party comes up with their nominee. But it's like,

right, 77. 77, not a sharp 77, not a vital 77. There are 77-year-olds that are boom, boom, boom. Absolutely. My mother's relatively tight, and she's in her 70s. Biden seems like a guy who's on his heels. Your mom would probably be a good president.

No, she would be a terrible president. Her ideas are ethereal. So the notion of a commune is wonderful in theory. It's been just a profound failure as an experiment in reality. Did anybody see, did you guys see the Bhagwan Rajneesh that it was like a six part series about a cult that God started with that Indian leader? It was a big series, like a Netflix series. It was very well produced.

But this huge commune, all these homeless people from San Francisco and said, we are going to make you our family. And we're going to provide you with work and self-esteem. And they brought them to the commune. And six weeks later they had to ship them out of the commune because they brought with them all of their addiction, all of the, all of the larceny, all of that. And my mother is the type of person that say, just come in, we're going to make

you our family. And then they rob the house. I'm saying, this is why I think I'm more conservative than I used to be, because I now know that doesn't actually work. We have to be able to bring people together and have social safety nets. But you have to do it in a way that is a function of your knowledge of human nature. Otherwise, all the systems fail. I've seen them fail. They don't work. I mean, according to the Bhagwan Rajneesh. But that's not really a left or right political idea.

It's a centrist political idea. Obama said the same thing. Anyway, we are out of time. We're not out of time but we try to keep it tight we try to keep it concise unless somebody has anything more that they're dying to discuss i feel like keep it tight could be a good tagline for that movie cuties keep it tight keep it tight baby keep so tight um yeah did we reach by the way did we reach a consensus i think i think we have well i don't think we reached expenses i i you know i'd like to speak i i'd like to speak to a psychologist to be honest with you to discuss what she thinks

or he thinks. I say she because your mother's a psychologist. She's the first one that comes to mind. But what he or she thinks about what effect that could have on the actor. To do that, is this the kind of thing that's appropriate to have a young actress be doing? You know, I'm open to the possibility that it could have negative psychological effects on them. And I'm open to the possibility that it doesn't, that it won't, you know.

But the really interesting question then becomes, let's say you knew that it did, but the story was so compelling, it had to be and that in that for the greater good i mean this is a this would be more of a philosophical philosophical question you don't think about the greater good right you're right if you kill somebody yeah but that now we get to use five of his organs and transplant well no but we but but we do we rationalize killing people all the time for the greater good it's called the war in war we do but in regular life we don't yeah sometimes we do. We rationalize killing people all the time for the greater good. It's called the war. In war, we do. But in regular life, we don't.

Yeah, sometimes we do. I mean, heroism, we rationalized. Oh, yeah. You can murder terrorists. You can kill terrorists. In a non-war context, we usually don't. Usually not. You're right.

Individual right is more important than any potential group gain. Well, but there's another thought as it relates to that. In the West, that's the case, but perhaps in Eastern cultures, that's less the case. Could the same message have been transmitted without, with scenes that were less respected, older girls as Perrielle had mentioned earlier. Right.

Yeah. as perry l had mentioned earlier right yeah i mean i i have to watch the movie to really be able to say you know to come down hard but i did want to tell you guys one thing before we sign off which is that in indonesia in Indonesia anti-maskers are being forced to dig graves for COVID-19 victims well they can do that in Indonesia you know they can also put you in jail for 10 years for chewing gum um we our justice system won't allow for that but you know if it works for them that's their thing oh go ahead yeah i'm not going to judge their culture i read that article that gnome sent us by andrew sullivan that talked about how you know we have to be careful about perceiving america as like the notion of racism rightly so but you have to be careful on a relative basis of perceiving it as some grand evil. And on a relative basis, there are so many other places that are far more, I don't know,

divisive, racist. Although, you know, part of me, I don't know. It's like when I hear about people getting caned for chewing gum in Singapore, it sounds abhorrent until you talk to people who've been to Singapore and then they go, it runs beautifully and the streets are clean. And so I don't know. I am no longer of the opinion that people should not be hit with a cane. Well, again- I'm really not. I mean, it's a funny notion, but I think that people in this country need a good caning. I think it would make every, I think we'd all be better for it. Well, you know, I'm not necessarily against the caning. Yeah. I mean, I,

I've read about it. It's pretty, pretty nasty stuff. Apparently your ass swells to like, you can't even sit down for like a week after you get caned. You know, because your ass apparently swells to like several times its normal size. If the streets were filled with refuse

in Singapore, then I would say caning is very bad. But the streets are very clean. And so if we gotta tan a few hides over the course of the year. Well, if you, if you value clean streets to that degree,

I do. I like clean streets. I'm not saying about it, but, but you know, my question is this, why do people, why is human nature such that people need to get hit with a fucking cane so that they don't turn the streets

into a piss and shit and come and kill disgusting garbage sewer i think with disenfranchisement from the group comes with a lot of anger and comorbidities. And so people behave in ways that are very self-destructive. You're right. That's a very good answer. And that's the part of the Bhagwan Rajneesh that we have to be very careful about being reflexively, the bleeding heart aspect, we all want to help. The problem is you can't just help in some cases by giving someone money if they haven't adjusted their notion of discipline around money. If you've read any statistics about lottery winners, it doesn't work. They declare bankruptcy. There are lots of family problems. And so that's a conservative notion, not a conservative politically notion. It's a

philosophically conservative notion that you have to ground the policy in human nature. And human nature is sometimes you need a caning, I think. I mean, if you can show me. I mean, it's like beating children. It doesn't work. I mean, it might work in the short term. It's different than beating children. If children are well raised, they can avoid the cane.

The cane comes later on when people remember that foreigner that was chewing gum, he spit it on the sidewalk and they taught that boy respect. Never again. I don't listen. We'd have to consult psychologists.

The same people we'd consult about whether or not these 11-year-olds were really sort of, you know. All right. By this dancing. That was actually a discussion I'd like to have with somebody. Yeah, that would be interesting. I mean, certainly we could find a good psychologist to come talk to. That would be, you know, in that some child psychologist and adolescent.

Somebody that might be specifically uh knowledgeable about that area anyway why don't we end on that yes of course okay uh podcast at comedyseller.com for all your questions suggestions and comments uh whatever that is the bible on the table on. It won't kill either one of you to post this. Oh, how do I post it? You'll discuss it with Perry. I'll offscreen. I will certainly post it. But Dan, you've got to show me tomorrow.

You'll show me how to post it. I'm going to see Dan tomorrow. I'll post it tomorrow. Barry, you guys can see each other tomorrow. I'm so jealous. All right. I'll post it tomorrow, Perry. You guys can see each other tomorrow. I'm so jealous. We haven't done it. We haven't done it. All right. Well, we,

we, we play Frisbee in the park. Maybe one of these days I'll come visit. I'm a guy for Frisbee. We can certainly have another evening

we can all get together. We can do another Frisbee evening. We can do another evening. The two things are five. But anyway, we will see you next time. All right. Bye, everybody.

Hang in there.