The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Bonus Episode 4 with Dov Davidoff

Episode Date: June 17, 2020

Dan Naturman, Periel Aschenbrand and Dov Davidoff

This is Live from the Table, bonus edition. Live from the Table is the official podcast of New York's world-famous comedy seller, and we're available on Raw Dog, XM99, Sirius Radio, and the Riotcast Podcast Network. Dan Natterman coming at you from the Serengeti. Not really, this is a virtual background. Dubbed David Officer. He's back in New York City and Periel is here from her undisclosed location in the command center of Periel Enterprises.

Welcome one and all to our bonus episode on Monday Night Edition. I should note, and I did text you, but just to reiterate, we had the high command, the front office said that we should avoid controversial positions regarding any matter that is dealing with the current controversy. I don't

even want to mention the controversy because in and of itself might be controversial. Saying what you just said is probably controversial. Well, it's a, well, no, well, I don't know, maybe arguably, but anyway, that, that it comes to us from on high, on high front office, the head honcho, the top dog, given the given the climate

and to be clear that doesn't mean we have controversial opinions but if we did we would hesitate to voice them so welcome Dove is coming to us from the Lower East Side yes sir Lower East Side

he's back in New York City welcome Dove last time Lower East Side. Yes, sir. Lower East Side. He's back in New York City. Welcome, Dov. Last time you were talking about getting Mama's driveway, your ex-wife, however you want to qualify her. Listen, I think it could be. It's an interesting way to thread the needle. It's an outside-of-the-box solution to a problem that was potentially very challenging, you know, how to bridge the divide between Manhattan and Jersey.

Even though it's not far, it's far enough. It feels like a divide. And if I can head out there at night, park my car in her driveway, I think, you know, that could be the way to go. You haven't yet purchased the RV. I haven't yet purchased the RV. But her lease doesn't start for another couple of weeks. So I wouldn't be able to really use the RV just yet.

But I looked up how to remove all the stuff from the tanks, the black water tanks. That's where you make a doo-doo. They call it a black tank. Yeah. The black water. We don't think about that so often when we go to the bathroom on board an airplane or. That's right. In the Greyhound bus or whatever,

we don't think about if somebody has to clean that tank out. That's right. That's right. And so somebody's got to do it. And they have these, they have dump sites in RV parks. And then some, there are other types of dump sites, but apparently you hook up to a hose and there's a, you know, a little process and, you know, you, you do what you have to do and then you fill it up with water. And, um, I, I don't know, listen, I'm not an RV kind of guy historically,

but you know, it could be an interesting way to get about. Well, and also we had planned to potentially, you could use it as an after party location when you park it in front of the comedy cell. I don't know if that would be practical. Oh, the fun never ends, baby. We are going to shake it up so heavy right in front of the comedy cell with an RV.

Because as every comedian knows, you know, getting a girl from the comedy club where she might think you're interesting and kind of cool and maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit dangerous, but not too. Yes, that's right. Then once the, the further you go away from the comedy club, the more you become like a regular human being and the less power you have. Yes. If you can, if you can find a location that's closed by,

like an RV park across the street. Yes. You'd be in a better position. That's exactly right. In terms of probability, if we're really going to make a dispassionate analysis and the objective is getting in somebody's pants, then the shortest period of time

between exiting that club and entering another door is an extremely critical variable because whatever takes place in that environment wears off so quickly. Oh, so quickly. You cannot maintain the level of coolness. Once a woman sees you on stage, you're on stage, you're making people laugh.

That's right. It's hard to live up to that level. Can't do it. Nobody's ever been able to do it. So the longer you, the more time you spend outside that environment, the more you become just a normal person. Yes.

Subsequently, there's an atrophy that takes place because as a single person, I have not developed the sort of skill set associated with, I mean, we've already talked about this probably, but the skill set associated- By all means, keep digging, you guys. No, no, no, no, no. We don't have to keep digging.

Perrielle, how are you? I'm good. This is, I mean, this is actually fascinating insight. Well, you know, we have discussed it, but you know- Well, there's an atrophy that takes place. Don't you get it? There's an atrophy because. I do.

I actually, I mean, at first I thought you guys were being ridiculous. But then thinking about it a little bit, I would imagine that what you're saying is probably has more depth to it. Yeah, yeah. That I actually gave you credit for. And I actually am, you know, starting to feel a little bit sympathetic because I could really see that as being true. You're on stage and you have this, like, huge personality and, you know, you're sort of the king of the room. And then you have to go back and, like, you're a regular human being

and that must be very disappointing for these. It would be less disappointing if the average comedian had better self-esteem in the first place, but it's really a perfect storm because you compound the lack of a sense of self that manifests itself in doing stand-up in the first place with the idea that you're not actually doing stand-up once you stop doing stand-up, and then you return to whatever sad, diminished little psychological space

that got you to stand-up in the first place. So it's really a chasing of the dragon. That's where the RV comes in. That's where the RV comes into play. You park it right across the street, and there's very little time. There's very little time between the time that you get off stage,

and then you get into the RV. That's precisely right. That would be the theory. Whether it works in practice remains to be seen. Oh, it works. It works. Or whether there's even available parking. No, I mean, it feels very rock and roll. Well, essentially, it's a tour bus, but it's stationary.

You know, I mean, who said that you have to drive the bus in order to use it? We're going to leave the RV right there. Right in front of the comedy cellar. I saw it. Did everybody see Dave Chappelle's, I don't know what you would call it. It's a special, whatever it is. On YouTube, it's half hour.

Did you see it, Dov? I did not. But I would imagine that there are others that didn't as well. So why don't you communicate some of the high points of this special for all of us? Well, Dave Chappelle did a... Without saying anything controversial. Well, he did, I guess you'd call it a special.

It's a half hour on YouTube called 8 minutes and 46 seconds, which is the amount of time that... George Floyd. George Floyd was under the knee of Derek Chauvin. Yes, sir. And so what's interesting about the special, obviously, Chappelle's very impassioned about it, very upset about it. Yeah. The interesting thing about the special is there's very little in the way of humor. Almost none whatsoever. It's mostly him, just his...

One might not even define it as a comedy special in that case. Well, other than the fact that it's a comedian, you know, I mean, like if Beethoven, you know, did comedy, would you call it a symphony? I don't know, but if I were a doctor... So I'm saying if somebody is doing something

that's not in his normal field of no i wouldn't call it a sympathy if there were instruments playing and and he wasn't following any sort of music that had been written with the objective being to create music anyway so i don't know whatever it's a completely worthless analogy that didn't need to be totally worth made yet made it make it i did but so i wouldn't call it a comedy special, but it has some numerous moments in it, lighthearted moments in it. For example, he mentions that Candace Owens,

you know Candace Owens? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. He mentioned that her vagina was smelly, but then he backtracked and said, well, I don't know if it's smelly, but if anybody finds out, keep me posted. To which Candace replied on Twitter that she can take a joke, and she was

basically said that she was honored to be part of his special. I would imagine so. Pardon? As well as she should be. Well, I wouldn't necessarily go as far as to say that she should be. Well, I wouldn't necessarily go as far as to say that she should be honored, given the content

of what Chappelle said about her and also said that she was an idiot, albeit an articulate one. I disagree. I think she's pretty bright. Well, that would fall under a controversial opinion. I don't

see how it could fall under controversial. I've heard her speak and she seems reasonably right. By the way, she went to my high school, albeit 20 years after I graduate. Oh, wow. But she is a graduate of Stanford High, as am I. That's an auspicious beginning. I mean, a man like you comes out of an area like that. One could only hope to.

We likely had some of the same teachers because 20 years later, there's some of the teachers were still there. I think all of my teachers are gone now that is retired and or deceased at this point. But 20, when she was there, probably there was a few that we had. She's a very attractive lady.

That's all I'll say. That's all I'll say. Is that I find myself, what can I tell you? I find myself attractive to her physically. Yes, of course. No, no, no. She's an attractive young lady, of course.

Anyway, the point that I... What else could I say? I find myself attracted to her physically. What else could I say? All right. What's interesting about Dave is, is he has a, I think he has something that no other comedian we've ever seen has,

which is an ability to be engaging without being funny. I don't think Eddie Murphy could pull that off. If Eddie Murphy is not funny, I'm not interested when he has to say. I don't, I mean, I think, yeah,

I think you're not, you're not, you're not wrong. I don't think that he's the only one that can do it. I don't think we've seen many people attempt to engage an audience without communicating with humor. But it's interesting in the way that he alters the form. And I think part of what's so engaging is talent. But subsequent to that, which would be a necessary variable to continue to be engaging without being funny, is you feel things deeply. And he feels things deeply.

And it adds to a sense of you want to experience that perspective. I mean, I should say that Bill Maher does that. You know, I can't say Chappelle's the other one. Bill Maher would be another example of a guy that speaks about weighty issues in a not always funny way that is engaging. But Chappelle has, pardon? Colbert. You know, I don't watch Colbert. I'm not familiar with his work. Is he a stand-up even? I don't think he's a stand-up. I'm talking about stand-ups but but uh but i think you're right dev it's not just what chapelle is saying with bill maher it's what he's saying that's that's engaged i think it's less what he's saying and more how he's saying it he has a

i would almost say preacher-like quality that's there's some some uh sirens going on in terrible ambulance neighborhood but um yeah he's got like a... There is a preacher-esque aspect to it. I mean, there is in general in stand-up. And his stand-up is not, it's not lightweight fare. I mean, it's always been about something. I mean, there's, you know... Well, it is.

He's got jokes that are not necessarily, you know, like being, you know, lightning, you know, controversial, you know, sort of challenging, you know, issue related humor, but he's always been like that. He cares about stuff, you know, whereas I mean, you don't get that sense from Seinfeld. You don't get the sense that there's some impassioned plea to experience what he's been feeling around that, which is controversial and psychological and reflective and meaningful. And, you know, and probably for that reason, I find Chappelle a much more engaging watch for me.

Chappelle's also always sort of had the balls to not be funny. That's correct. And to spend time on stage, which I'm deathly afraid of. I don't know that they would be interested in my opinions, but I'm afraid to find out because I feel that if they're not laughing, it could be an anti-Semitic pogrom that breaks out at any moment. I'm afraid. I'm just assuming that they don't like me and the only thing keeping me from a beat down is being funny and i think that obviously this goes

back to my i guess earlier years where i always felt a little bit you know not a part of the crew but um whatever it is we could go into that's the paradox of trying to write new material because it always involves you know sort of um it always involves very significant discomfort because as a function of probability it's going to fail and then if you're going to talk your way around the premise in search of a punchline, that's going to take a while. So even if that aspect of it is relatively successful, you're still sort of, the silence is a reminder that you are kind of failing. But the super objective has to be that you're failing so that you will succeed in the larger picture of creation

and developing something worth saying. But it's very challenging to do. I think sometimes the audience likes to see that process, although if we tell a joke that doesn't work and it's a new joke, we assume that the audience is annoyed. But it's two minutes of their time, and I think that sometimes they enjoy like oh that's interesting he we're seeing a process that we normally wouldn't see i agree

yeah no i agree i mean it's just that um it's hard for people that are looking for an immediate kind of affirmation which is what you takes place in comedy to some degree. It's not a long form piece of writing where you hand it over to somebody and then they have an experience. And the sense of immediate feedback sort of compounds the silence, if you will, and the challenge in creation. But I don't know.

I mean, listen, when is this coming back? What has Noam said about the club? What's going on? Oh, well, Noam, I think it's in the dark. I mean, this is apropos banter for the Comedy Cellar. Yes, and I think that Noam... What is this podcast called, by the way? It's a bonus. Live from the Table.

The bonus episode. I don't know what it's called. Live from the Table bonus. It's not titled. Yeah, go ahead. Live from the Table bonus episode I don't know what it's called Live from the Table bonus Live from the Table bonus episode with Dove Davidoff Live from the Table bonus okay Wait I have a question for you guys indulge me for a moment

Yes we shall Dan's so upset I don't mind indulging Do you how much Dan's so upset. I don't mind indulging. Do you like how much of it for you guys is

are you trying out new stuff? Like do you sandwich it in between material that you know that's tried and true? That's called the sandwich technique. It's the classic sandwich. know that's tried and true. That's called the sandwich technique. Classic.

It's the classic sandwich. That's the Trojan horse, Perry L, because if you haven't proved up front to the audience that you can be funny, the assumption will be that you're going to continue to not be funny. So it's kind of like earning the silence. Like even a long form bit.

I would never begin with something that required too much sort of listening and context upfront because I haven't earned that in the relationship with the audience, you know, but if you get up and you let them know upfront that there's some crap and that they will ultimately experience, you know, human, there's a point, that they will ultimately experience you know human there's a point you know like listening to chapelle talk you realize at some point there's going to be something of value that falls out whereas i don't think that that's the case for a lot of people in which case as an audience member i wouldn't want to sit through their rambling premise uh unless they could really back it up in the end. Otherwise there's just, it's a payoff relationship, you know?

So, but you'll riff, right? Yeah, absolutely you'll riff. You know, you just want to prove it up front with something that you know oftentimes, but it's basically a credibility thing. It's almost like getting a loan from a bank, you know, nobody wants to give you money if they don't know whether or not you can pay it back. And sort of silence is a form of giving you, giving you something from an audience,

you know, but that's, that's why I like storytellers for that reason, because it's a bit more risky, you know, if I had like, say two new jokes to work out that on given evening, say I have two new jokes that I want to test, I'll do

a few jokes up front that I know work. And to be honest, the whole time I'm a little distracted because I know that I'm going to drop the new one in there and I'm hoping that it works so I'm a little bit concerned about it. But anyway, then I drop the new one in. If it works, I'll do the second new one that I want to try.

If it doesn't work, forget it. No more new jokes. I don't want to have too many. Take a chance that there'll be two clunkers in there. And I also will lose confidence. And I don't want to do a new joke with less confidence. So now that's me. Other people will be happy to just take their notebook on stage and read a whole bunch of

new jokes. You won't do that. I don't do that no i i generally have a as i said a policy that if the first new joke that i'm trying to test does not work i hesitate to do a second new joke maybe maybe i will maybe i won't but it would be uh likely that i would not i'll do it another time. I generally speaking don't have that many new jokes to work out that I have to do. I find it unfortunate. I find it unfortunate that you can't withstand more of that, of the anxiety associated with some sustained silence.

Very unfortunate. You have very interesting mind. Very unfortunate. Very unfortunate. You have very interesting minds. Very unfortunate. Very sad. It's very sad. You know, my life is a permittable mind. But if you have to find the punchline and you won't sit in the silence a bit longer,

then certain discoveries just aren't likely. And so the jokes, it doesn't mean the jokes won't be great. It just means you won't go certain places to find humor. If you pull back, if you have a long premise and you're too scared to go all the way with it because they're not laughing, you might abandon ship and not get to your destination. That's certainly, that is often the case. You know, I mean, you hear it said that, Seinfeld will say, you know, they come for the jokes.

They don't come to hear me talk. And that's not necessarily the case for Chappelle. Part of the reason you're showing up is because the content of the song. It's not just whether or not the song makes you want to dance, you know? And so I enjoy that. I also enjoy jokes. I enjoy Dan's act very much.

I mean, I enjoy jokes. But hearing somebody think through something, it's just a tall order because they got to pay it off. Otherwise, you stop listening. I'm getting a sense, and correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to put words in your mouth. A certain, I won't say contempt, a certain disrespect for Jerry Seinfeld that I... No, not

at all. He's a tremendous joke smith. I've just... I don't... There is something light. You know how you like certain types of films? Like I like dark subject matter. I like a noir, baby, a noir. You understand what that term means.

That's French. Yeah, that was freezing. Yeah. And so, you know, it's just a function of taste. It's not a judgment beyond my experience. He's excellent at what he does. You know, I mean, so are certain types of, you know, romantic comedies.

I would rather, you know, I'd rather go through some sort of, you know, I'd rather go to the dentist or deal with a light rehab or something. I don't know, but I don't like watching light fare. It's not my thing. I like a Gervais. I like somebody that says something, you know. In Afterlife, he's making humor

out of asking the heroin guy. Oh, my God. That show. I can't get through it without crying. Yes. I have not seen it. That's what's so special about it. Oh, my God. He's amazing. That special about it oh my god he's amazing that show is incredible yeah he's always thinking and so a guy like that i want to hear what he has to say i he doesn't have to have a joke every 30 seconds i want to hear what he's thinking but like if you

guys are going on the road and you're doing 40 minutes or whatever you're working out an hour. I mean, I would have to imagine that a significant portion of that is working out new jokes, right? Well, I'll speak for myself. If I'm doing an hour, most of it is tried. I'm doing an hour for people that paid to see me as a headliner. Then, you know, I'm going to do mostly the stuff I know works. And maybe with a few jokes in there that are being tested

it's kind of like the SAT they give you the test and then they slip in a few questions which I always like annoy the fuck out of me by the way you know the SATs they'll like they'll put in questions that don't count just to test to see if they're good questions but Dan's relationship

with the audience is a psychological mind fuck and I never appreciate it. I don't know if they still do that. Dan doesn't give himself enough credit ever though. Ever. And, and so if he has to generate constant value and he defines value as getting to the punchline and providing them with some laughter, then the comfort level.

What I like about Dan's approach is that he really earns the experience by crafting the joke. Some people just get up and talk, whereas Chappelle did some thinking around what he's talking about, and it comes to interesting channels, and that has to be earned, whereas Dan is doing the opposite. Well, the truth is, and I've said this on many podcasts, including our own, but stand-up for me is not a pleasurable experience. A lot of people have been talking about during this COVID crisis that we are in about missing stand-up. And they seem to have almost an addiction to it and they they you know they're like i read on facebook oh i got back on stage you know i did

a live show they did some live show and they're like oh my god it feels so good to to be back and and i don't feel that way um don't miss it at all i'm no i'll tell you what I miss. I miss getting off stage, having maybe a Stoli. And a light chicken. Having maybe a roast chicken. A roast chicken. No, I miss the social aspect of it, the other comics, the camaraderie

when I'm done. I miss all that as well, yeah. As far as the actual onstage experience? I don't know how many, you know, people are like this in general, but I know for comedy, it's sort of,

it's like, I realized that I, I have not created relationships in my life where I would call people. The people, there are a few people that I would see outside of the comedy cell, but very, very few on a social context. And so what I realized is that environment became a way to not feel isolated.

And so that is part of what's missed. It isn't just getting on stage. I'm never been, yeah, but yeah, it's that experience of walking into a room and I would call them friends. But if we're defining friends as someone that you would call during the, then I have very few friends. And so I used to have a room I'd walk into and there would be enough contact, you know that you felt as though some element of being human was satisfied and so that you could go back into a life that otherwise feels a touch isolated but

uh i that's my own relatively depressive journey i guess right i mean both of you are you know relatively dysfunctional is basically what you're saying. I guess, you know. No, no, I think that's a reasonable take. I, you know, you wouldn't get into comedy. Otherwise, I wouldn't imagine. What is ipso facto? You know, I don't know what ipso facto sounds.

It's a legal term that I should know. The very fact. By the way, it's getting back to Chappelle. By that very fact or act. By that very fact or act. Ipso facto is Latin. The enemy of one's enemy may ipso facto be. Yes, by way of. And so I was using it correctly.

There is an ipso facto kind of friendship by way of that circumstance. But it doesn't extend beyond that. So all those people I say hi to and I know, I mean, I might see 35, 50 people that I know over the course of the evening. Almost none of them. Well, by definition, I guess

you're saying it doesn't extend. Yeah. There is something that feels very close-knit because of the nature of the work, I think. Yeah, but it's also dissonant because you're experiencing a form of friendship that doesn't extend beyond that room, really. And so that's where the isolated aspect of it is.

Because if you took those relationships into your life and interface in other ways, then that room isn't the center of your social universe necessarily. Whereas for me, it is. A healthier balancing of social resources would level things out a bit. It would not be so contingent upon one room. I wanted to jump back real briefly to Dave Chappelle's special because there's one thing I wanted to mention that I think is interesting.

And it's a slight spoiler, so you can skip ahead a couple of minutes. Not really, but it's a slight spoiler. Yeah. He mentions during his act, he mentions, slight spoiler, you can skip ahead a minute or two. I'm not worried about the spoil, go ahead. No, I'm saying for the people that are listening to this.

Ah, gee, what are you, you're going to ruin a big punchline? No, there's no punchline. He talks about his great-grandfather, William D. Chappelle. Yeah. William D. Chappelle was, believe it or not, born a slave in 1857. This is Dave's great-grandfather.

Kind of a long time ago to be somebody's great-grandfather. That's our age. However, it's possible. I don't think my great-grandparents were born in the 1850s, but it certainly can happen. But in any case, so this man was born a slave. Dave mentions him in the half hour special that he just did. And he was part of, after the civil war and after emancipation,

he became a very prominent educationalist and Bishop of the African Methodist Episcopal Church. And he led a delegation to meet with Woodrow Wilson to talk about racism in the White House. One of his sons, W.D. Chappelle Jr., this is, well, I guess, I don't know if it's Dave's grandfather or Dave's great uncle or whatever, but he was a physician and surgeon who opened the People's Infirmary in 1915. What's my point is that I find that extraordinary people seldom come from losers. And, uh, and I, I don't think it's a coincidence that Dave Chappelle is great at what he does

and intelligent and insightful. And that is a fairly illustrious family tree. Uh, Your point is that intellect is genetic. Is that, is that controversial again? My point is that intellect and creativity and just extraordinary achievement. And culture and drive and all of that. All those things are genetic and, I suppose, environmental within families as well. But I think both of those are there.

You know, for example, Billy Joel's grandfather was a huge industrialist in Germany. Yeah, you don't usually get smart from two stupid people. I mean, the premise is basic. It is. Well, it's basic enough. But, you know, I don't know. I just thought it was interesting. No, no, that's a particularly unique background. That's a particularly unique background. I mean, Dave Chappelle, you certainly don't think, you know, of a delegation to the White House necessarily, although I guess Dave's probably been

to the White House at this point, but... Dave's parents were both, I think, professors. I mean, one of his jokes is, I'm the first person not to go to college in my family. So, yeah, I mean, yeah. I think you'll often find, you know. He's not a hood guy. He's not.

He didn't come to college. Even if he were a hood guy, I bet you, like, I bet you even a hood guy that achieved greatness, if you go back, you'll find something. I'm sure. I'm sure.

Yeah. No, no. Your point is that stupid parents don't create necessarily interesting, smart smart children i'm sure there are a few exceptions but overall oh yeah i mean um although it's been theorized that aspects of genuine genius however people you're breaking up a little bit uncorrelated whether or not their parents were necessarily good at something you You know, you could be a

freakish guitar player and not have had somebody that was hitting it out of the park intellectually as a parent. Music is, you know, music is another category. No, no, you're getting controversial. But music probably does have a genetic component, but it may

not be completely correlated to IQ. It may be another thing. That's exactly, yes. No, no, that's right. And also Billy Joel's, by the way, I think his half-brother's a conductor in Europe. So, I mean, you know, so that, again. Yeah, yeah.

I don't have enough of a sampling of pop culture to sort of think through the backgrounds of different artists that I've experienced, but I would imagine that that, that sounds like a reasonable hypothesis that, you know, I mean, if your parents were dotes, you have less of a chance of not being a dope. Periel, any thoughts about that? Lightly controversial, perhaps, discussion, but, but not too bad.

Which part? Whatever. About whatever part that you want to comment on, if you have a comment. For example, Perrielle wrote a book about her sex life and her... I love it when Dan tells everybody what the book is about, but he's never

read it. I know. We're bad about that. We have to buckle down. I think that... So is literary... My point was, does your family have any other literatis? My grandfather was a very important zionist journalist who was um an author who was um deeply involved in the um founding of

the state of israel so yes i suppose that. Well, what we're saying is, and I think the veiled aspect of what could be controversial is that intelligence is very correlated with genetics. I don't think there's any way around that. I think nurture has tremendous amount to do with it. Yeah, I mean, although I really am the black sheep of my family in a lot of ways.

Right. I'm certainly the only stand up comic in my family, but there are intelligent people in my family. And I'll bet, you know, my like, I, you know, I'll bet that if I, you know, snooped around my family tree, There might've been, you know, Heschel the village clown or something back in Poland. You know, he was always making jokes about his cousin Sheila coming over to his apartment. You know, like my cousin. Yeah, like, you know, my father's side too.

Like my, they're pretty brilliant. I mean, you know, my father's brother is like probably like genius level IQ, but I never thought of myself that way. We don't think of you that way either, but we're just saying that you have a literary bent. And I was wondering if there was any literary... Well, there's a cultural aspect to it too, which is that Jewish tradition, if I could, you know, in terms of generalizing about culture, which has become tricky in this day and age, but true nonetheless. It is a more intellectually dynamic culture than many. And so it produces, in addition to, you know, intellectually being often,

listen, you know what the hell I'm saying, for God's sake. That brings us into the latest I wanted to do. Everything's controversial if you start to, you know, get into it, you know. You're supposed to say it's all environment. It's not all environment. It's genetic, a lot of it. It's a fact. I wanted to give you an update because I think that's a good lead.

And with my literary efforts, as you know, I have literary ambitions as well. That's right. What's going on with your novel, Dan? Well, I'll tell you, and I'm glad you asked. I'm glad you asked with no prompting whatsoever. I'm predicting to finish

the first draft by the end of July. That is my estimate of your arrival. Very impressive. I started last May, so we're talking, you know, 14 months or whatever, which I don't know what the average time is to write a novel. That sounds about right. I guess, or right. It takes people years.

There's no, there's no right. And, and I don't even know if it's good. What I do know is it will soon be done at least the first draft. And then I have to go back through it and make it presentable and, and, and, and readable so that when I decide to go back through it and make it presentable and readable so that when I decide to go to agents or however I decide to... Tremendous accomplishment to be able to pull something like that off.

Absolutely. I did it little by little and oddly enough, when you do it little by little, it gets done. I mean, it's just amazing what you can do even at a slow pace, glacial page every other day, you know, within a year and a half, have a novel.

I mean, Dan, it's quite remarkable. Given enough time, it gets done. What's that? It's quite remarkable that you have pulled that off. Well, I mean, I'm certainly not the only one who have done so. Many comics have written books, most of which are memoirs, some of which are novels. But it's not something I ever thought I would do a few years ago, you know, certainly. And

basically, I figured, and it's a good time to do it because there's no comedy going on right now. But... Did you enjoy it? No, no, not a moment of it. But I do enjoy when I'm finished writing and I'm like, oh, okay. Because basically every chapter

would be like a pain in the ass trying to figure out. I knew chapter by chapter what I wanted to accomplish, but then you had to figure out exactly how you were going to accomplish that in each chapter. And that was always difficult and a struggle.

And then I would do it and then I would feel really good. Oh, shit, I solved that puzzle. And then I would get to the next chapter and be like, oh, here we go again. Now what do I do? But it was satisfying when the puzzle got solved. So hopefully it's decent. I mean, you know, I don't want to self-publish it.

In fact, I would probably rather just not do anything rather than self-publish, but maybe I will. There's something masochistic about the writing process, but I guess the people that love it find enough, you know, joy and catharsis and, you know, energy in doing. When I, you read about, you ever read energy in doing. When I, you read about, you ever read about like somebody's writing process, you read about a Hemingway. I mean, I, you know,

some people can't not do it, you know, it's, it's not right. And there are people like Stephen King who's written every year, he's got another 600 page novel. I mean, it's, it's just such an isolated pain i i couldn't imagine what that's like it's really fun well harry i'll offer another point of view i um i really really enjoy um i mean i've you know only written two books so i can't that's two more than 99.99 percent of yeah that's right well yeah but you know you think about somebody like Stephen King but I mean I've always really it feels like a real luxury

to be able to go hole yourself up somewhere and you know sort of indulge in this world. And I don't know. I mean, to be able to do that is sort of thrilling. I mean, I'm also like very ADD, so I can't like sit in New York and do it, right? Right. Are you working on anything now, Perrielle? Well, I've been working on turning the,

writing a TV show from the prequel to my first book. I think it's pronounced prequel, but go ahead. Prequel. Prequel, prequel. What did I say? You said prequel. Prequel, prequel. You're say prequel prequel prequel you're right prequel um so that's what we we shot the first book i shot a pilot of the first book um we sold the we sold it and um i it was terrible yeah i've been there it's not easy to do to sell it let alone try to create a pilot that you know how long did it take to write your memoir

Rude Dog it took it took a while but I stopped for you know a couple of months you know and then again for a couple of months and then I would get I mine was very streaky you know I would I would turn out

12 pages and then not go again for a bit. I think you remember a couple of years that you were working. Well, I didn't. Yeah, I mean, we were working through some deadlines. The deadline kept getting pushed out and then without the deadline, it was hard for me

to sit down. It's not easy to nail yourself to a chair yeah and dive into at least what for me was a very uh at times dark and you know there was a not you had to relive your life you had to relive your life whilst writing this. I don't know if that's possible. You have to relive your life. You've got to relive it. I mean, it's definitely a long, long process and sometimes sort of a tedious one. I find the editing process,

I mean, I had to reread that fucking book like four times. I wanted to throw myself in the upcoming trap. Yeah, the editing process is... I mean, reading it once was bad enough. I can't imagine how you... If you're writing non-fiction, I had to vet it with the legal department

at HarperCollins like 30 times. I mean, it's brutal. I have non-fiction aspects in my book because the main character is a comedian. And I don't know how that will work legally. I don't think it's an issue. But for example, he's a comic and a screenwriter. So he'll reference, like Dave Chappelle is referenced in it, for example.

Certain movies are referenced in it that are real movies. I don't know that that would be a legal issue. No, no. It's more if you're writing about people who are... I write about my family and not always in the most flattering light one could yeah um so you can't write like identifying factors about a person who's not famous a good rule of thumb is just to think would this person if this person is real would they shoot the publisher right exactly that's what they're looking out for so you're not saying anything that is necessarily um you know inflammatory or or definitely defamating

or so you know some right yeah you know um yeah no writing for me that was tough was that I always wanted to do comedy. I always wanted to do stand-up. And so I started, I mean, I sold my first book when I was like 28. Well, you might disagree, Dan. But, you know, I always thought I was funny. Yeah. But I. I agree you thought you were funny.

But I learned, you know, the art of stand-up is so different than being able to write something funny in a book. But also in a book, you don't, I think that the expectations are much lower. I mean, at a stand-up club, we're hoping to howl with laughter. When was the last time you saw a guy reading a book on the sub-media? You know, it's just the expectation. Like, I often will read these reviews of books, a whip-smart,

thrilling, funny, and you're like, come on, man. Come on. It might be whip-smart, but you know it ain't fucking laughing. Very few books are howling. Think about are books that are like really incredible that you've read and they are you know amazing to you what books confederacy of dunces perry l was the greatest piece of humor i've ever experienced talking about humor books so you're

talking about i don't read humor too much i mean no just books that like really had like the my favorite book and I had to take it down from Facebook because unfortunately, it's gone with the wind. I you know, I know that even to say that right now is tricky. But that that is my favorite novel. I, you know, acknowledging fully that it glorifies that which should not be glorified. But it also brings you into a time and place in history, which is fascinating to me and many people, especially Americans. And, you know, so so I the Jungle's another book I love.

The Jungle by Upton Sinclair about turn of the century. Meat packing plants in Chicago. Anybody's watching this and they're a fan of humor, which I would imagine this is, you know, it stems from the cellar and all of that. Confederacy of Dunces is the greatest work of humor that anyone has ever created. Wow. Yeah, I mean, what do I know?

I listen. You have to have read a lot of books to come to that conclusion, but the great Colin Quinn also agrees that it's the finest piece of humor.

You say the finest piece of humor in any media? So you would say any movie, any great Woodhound movie? Anything, yeah.

It's better than everybody. It's better than everything. It's better than everything. It's better than, yeah. Well, I am embarrassed to say that I have not read that yet. I've not read it either, but I'm not embarrassed about it.

I'm a little embarrassed, but I will read it now. I went through a phase in college where I read all of Charles Bukowski. Oh, yeah. I've read some Bukowski. That's pretty interesting. Yeah, that's a mind.

Which is probably also controversial to say. And that blew my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Naked Lunch is a mind blower along like those lines. Burroughs, I mean, it was straight up genius lunatic. And like Gertrude Stein. I never made it through a Gertrude Stein.

But yeah, I could only imagine. I tried once to read, this is I think I might have mentioned this before. I tried to read David Copperfield one time because I figured well, this is something you're supposed to read if you're supposed to be a literate person. Yeah.

And I gave it 100 pages, and I threw it in the garbage. Literally. Wow. Put it down my garbage chute. I didn't want it in my house. Where my children sleep. Where my children sleep. Where my wife makes their bed.

Yeah. I mean, I was infuriated i was like i don't now maybe had i continued it would have been interesting and or maybe i missed something it's certainly possible that i'm a neanderthal who doesn't appreciate great writing but it was like a hundred pages of actually nothing happened and i mean nothing i think a hundred pages is like that's like a fair go i um oh that's fair i'm telling you nothing happened i mean nothing happened in this my ex-boyfriend was uh from you know many many moons ago was a herman melville scholar oh god in an attempt to sort of ingratiate myself when we first very first started dating i

um bought a copy of moby dick so i liked i did Dick I liked. I did like Moby. And that was a great book. Okay, so we're in accord on Moby Dick. Some of the chapters were not page turners, but necessarily, it was a tremendous work of art. Yeah. But imagine sitting down and writing that behemoth. Oh, my God.

Well, I guess over the course of 12 months on a whale ship, you know, I mean, in between, you know, brief moments of terror, you're you got some writing time there. I mean, all kidding aside, though, I used to be a voracious reader and then I became a mom. And it's been very challenging to get through. I mean, books really changed my life. Yeah. That was really profound. Yeah. But it's been really hard to have that. I mean, I guess that's, you know,

I think I'm a little bit of a narcissist. And so the idea of writing a book or sitting and reading where you can just be like completely absorbed into like your own world you sort of lose that when you become a parent yeah a buddy of mine wrote that fatherhood was the death of narcissism

well have you found that to be the case you're a new father yeah sure to some degree I don't without some aspect You're a new father. Yeah, sure. To some degree. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't know. Without some aspect of devoted self-interest being mitigated by fatherhood, then you are what's known as a scumbag.

Well, have you found that your own personal ambitions have been subsumed by, by... I don't know that ambition is necessarily subsumed. I mean, sometimes it's enhanced because you have to provide for another life. But then it becomes about an ambition that's very much about, not about your own personal glorification, but about providing for a child. So it's not quite the same. Well, but there's some crossover, you know, because sometimes people have a kid and then commit more deeply to whatever it is they do, even if it's a creative process.

So one doesn't necessarily diminish the other, though it can, you know, somebody having free time, yes, more of that would be occupied by an experience of having a child, in which case you would tend to read less or get up earlier in the morning, you know, to try to read as much as you did. I don't know. But yeah, I mean, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about here. Do you want another kid? I mean, have you thought about that? Yeah. Listen, you know, that would have to be in the context of some form of, you know, relationship that made sense. I, you know, we were watching,

the wife and I said that she said, did you see that, that film that Paul Thomas Anderson, it was, he, he made a film with Daniel Day-Lewis where it was called like The Thread or The Golden Thread. You remember the, Perrielle, it was a movie. I like Paul Thomas Anderson, but I don't remember that. Well, that was the one with, you know, the My Left Foot, Daniel Day-Lewis. I don't watch a lot of film. And Phantom Thread? There's one called Phantom Thread.

The Phantom Thread, baby. The Phantom Thread. Yeah, that was Phantom Thread. The Phantom Thread, baby. The Phantom Thread. Daniel Day-Lewis, yes. Yeah, well, he plays, you know, and Daniel Day-Lewis plays an artist who's a designer, but, you know, he's very deeply involved in the craft of it, very self-involved. Long story short,

he gets involved in this very freezing shit. There is one morning where he gets involved in this very freezing shit. There is one morning where he's sitting there and she begins buttering her toast and you can see how profoundly bothered by that he is

because it makes a bit of a noise when she does it and she is not she's sort of buttering the toast without the kind of attention to detail that would have diminished the sounds emanating from the toast. And he really. And I'm in fury. I tell you.

Toast sound. If you're already pissed off at somebody and they're buttering that. That might push you over the over the edge i know but you it shouldn't in theory you know if you're gonna be in a relationship if you hate somebody and they're buttering that toast themselves right if you're it's about like how close to your breaking point you already are that buttering a toast might push you over if you are sufficiently close right but the degree to which you've earned that closeness will determine whether or not it's a pathology because the pathology isn't a behavior in a vacuum

to be, to get upset by somebody that where the, the it's the straw that broke the camel's back would not necessarily be a pathology. A pathology is when I want to achieve some stasis in a relationship and I want to not be upended and she hasn't done anything wrong

beyond the toast buttering and I'm still upended by it. That would be a pathology. Just the toast buttering would be a little much. If that's what happened in the movie, he flipped on it because of the toast and... Along those lines, it bothered him to the degree that it would get in the way of any attempt at

any relationship. And it, you know, yeah, it was a very significant moment. And so my experience of my own sanity and or ability to sustain a romantic relationship, and this related to,

do you want another kid question is, sustain a romantic relationship, and this is related to the Do You Want Another Kid question, is the ability to discern between the loud buttering of the toast being, you know, being a function of I've taken enough and it's healthy to extricate myself from this and how much of it is you have a a kind of thin skin and you you respond to things by getting you feel them more deeply than the average person and to get involved in a sustainable close, like a romantic relationship under logistical pressures of life, if you're upended by things, it's going to make it that much more challenging. It's challenging already. And so I begin to question my own. You're saying, if I could summarize, is that you question your ability to be in the kind of relationship that would allow you to have a child, to bring a child into the world in a healthy relationship. That's right. That's right. Okay. You know, that's right.

I mean, I think we all experience moments of a kind of questioning of our own psychological conditioning. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's it's distressing it's it's distressing i think somebody's uh i think whatever they can hear me i mean i think in order to be a you know good or great parent i mean you really need to hand yourself over so wholeheartedly to this child too right i don't have an issue with that at At least not yet. But yes, you're right. You're right. The child part of it. But you're also navigating the relationship is part and parcel of that. It's not separate, unless you're a single parent, in which case, you know, that's a totally separate. Yeah. No, I was thinking even about moving forward the idea that you can develop particularities as a human being

and a kind of rigidity around the way you see the world that doesn't always allow for kind of not smoothness the objective in a relationship isn't just smoothness sometimes it's the ability to withstand a lack of smoothness. And there are just many paradoxes that would need to be threaded. I don't know. I mean, I'm not Dan in terms of my, I don't see myself at all in a relationship, but I relate to Dan in so far as I find them to be conceptually really good vehicles with which to move through life in but the empirical aspect of the being

in it does seem challenging I guess. It is challenging. Well I'm fascinated as a spectator to see Dove's next move. It's like an RV baby. Well the RV It's a 15 foot, it's a pup it's a

in terms of Well, the RV. It's a 15-foot. It's a pup. It's a... In terms of... You got your wolf. It's like a Cougar 24. You got your wolf. There's those bad Indian designs. You ever see the Indian chachkas you could see in a mall,

you know, dime store or something like that? It's got awful graphics. I mean, it's just abysmal. I'm just thinking, when Dove reverts back to his old ways, if the old Dove is truly dead or he's just

been, we just haven't seen him in a while and he's still alive, but he's been sort of on the land. Yeah, you know, I don't know if the lion has been defanged. Now that Dove is single again, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, because Dove, as you know,

you didn't know Dove back when his glory days, but it was something to see. Such a day. Such a glory day. Do tell. Fill us in. We've talked about it. You know Dove was.

No, we've talked about it. We've talked about it. He was one of the best that there was. Very good. He was good. Say best that there was. Very good. It was good. It's 8 o'clock, by the way. We can wrap it up. Can you guys fill us in a little bit?

I was there last week at the end of last week, but it's been a few days. What's going on? How's the city doing? Well, I was just out just today. In fact, I met a Ruberay. We had some acai in Carl Schurz Park. Of course, I met a Ruberay.

Wait a second. Slow down. He's downtown west, isn't he? He was in the neighborhood for one reason or another. I'm not, I think he went to a, had a doctor's appointment. Anyway, so we met him. We had an outside lunch. Yeah.

Yeah, the joint is jumping. It's a nice day out. So people are, you know, mostly wearing masks, but not everybody. But a lot of people outside on the streets, bicycling, in the park, walking the Dougie. And does that feel safe? Were you wearing a mask? I wear a mask. But obviously, if I'm eating, I'm not wearing a mask.

I sit down. I try to keep distant. I pull down the mask. And in goes the acai. It's such an acai they make. Put it right in. But, you know, do I feel safe? I mean.

Well, you weren't leaving the house. I mean, you weren't doing that. I wasn't leaving the house, but mean, you weren't doing that house, but the weather stunk. Now the weather is good. I'm outside every day. And also, I think that the,

the data is showing that outdoor transmission is far less of a threat than indoor transmission. At least that's what I've read. Yeah. I keep getting mixed signals. I mean, Dr. Berg said that if you're outdoors and you can create reasonable social space, then you don't necessarily need to wear a mask. But then it seems that there are many people that, you know, want a mask worn anytime you're anywhere in potential proximity to anybody. Also, Ariel, you know, it's like anything else. The more

you... The more time that goes by that you don't get sick, the more you take chances. So, you know, if I go out once and I don't get sick, then the next time I'll go out and maybe be a little bit more reckless, you know, and if I don't get sick that time,

then... And before you know it, I'm making out with strangers. Yeah. It's a good way to get a lot of that. That's precisely if you wanted to get a light to medium syphilis. That's how to achieve that as well. But, you know, with each passing week that I don't get COVID, I'm like a little bit more emboldened, which can be very dangerous. That's, you know.

Such an emboldened. What you do to get emboldened with each week that goes by, you're not getting sick. Yeah, you get an emboldened what you do get emboldened with each week that goes by you're not getting sick yeah you get an emboldened it's true but i mean you also like each time a burglar might commit a crime and he doesn't get caught so the next crime is even more audacious i wonder how that applies to what we were talking about about you being on stage before though no No application. How do you mean that I don't see the relationship? Well, just that you were saying you're reticent to tell

a joke if the first one didn't work. I would imagine that having done this for so long and Wait, wait, let me finish. Let me finish. And by all objective accounts that you are very, very funny. And, you know, some might say, you know, sort of a brilliant comic,

that you would apply that to, you know, this sort of, it's not just moment to moment, you know, reward that dictates. I hear what you're saying. It makes sense. And for some reason, you're right. You would think that if enough times I go on stage and things work out, then it would make the next time less stressful. And yet it hasn't seemed to. So I cannot explain that, but perhaps we'll get into that next time. We do have to go. We don't have to go. Actually, we can stay on here for another 30 years, that, but perhaps we'll get into that next time. We do have to go. We don't have to go, actually.

We can stay on here for another 30 years, but we will go, I think is what I meant, because I like to leave people wanting more. Podcast at ComedySeller.com for questions, comments, and suggestions. At DoveDavidOff on Twitter, Instagram,

and all over the social networking world. You know, I've been locked out of my Facebook. I can't get in because they're asking me to confirm using my email. But the email they have in their system is my old email, and I can't access it because it's through a server that no longer exists. It's the strangest thing. But anyway, who cares?

I don't care. You don't have to. He's not a big social media guy. He's trying. More and more, he's trying to get into it. Yeah, yeah. By his new friend, Brian Callen, who's actually quite successful on social media.

Yes. But anyway, so Periel. He follows us at Live From The Table on Instagram, and we are supposed to say this at the beginning of the episodes, but we're Table on Instagram. And we are supposed to say this at the beginning of the episodes, but we're also on YouTube, so you can watch. All right. All right, so we say it now.

Anyhow, we'll see you next time. Bye, everybody. Bye, guys.