The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Brian Scott McFadden and Audrey Murray

Episode Date: July 20, 2018

Brian Scott McFadden is a New York City-based standup comedian and voiceover actor. He may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar Audrey Murray is a Brooklyn-based comedian and author of the new book, "Open Mic Night in Moscow: And Other Stories from My Search for Black Markets, Soviet Architecture, and Emotionally Unavailable Russian Men."

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. This is The Comedy Cellar Show, live from The Comedy Cellar on Sirius XM. Did I forget anything? 99? Anyway. You got it right then. Okay. Just do it again, A little more muscle. More powerful.

This is the Comedy Cellar Show on SiriusXM 99. Raw dog. And this is Dan Natterman. And normally when I give the introduction, that means Noam is not here. And tonight is no exception. But he sort of is here because he's here with us via the miracle of Skype. Noam. Noam, do you read me? he sort of is here because he's here with us via the miracle of Skype. Noam.

Noam, do you read me? And I'm here with some of my best friends, but I can't give you their names because they might say something pro-Trump and they have jobs to worry about. Okay. So you have two mystery people on your end. You're in the great state of Maine. Yes. On vacation. With Trump supporters. With Trump supporting friends. your end you're in the great state of maine and yes on vacation with trump supporters with trump

supporting friends yeah they might be shall remain that that that voice you hear is brian scott mcfadden comedian comedy seller comedian he hates trump voice so not true not i don't want to well i don't want to get start starting with right away. Yeah, let's slow down. Let's ease into it. We'll probably get there, I would imagine. Brian Scott McFadden is a voiceover artist extraordinaire, as well as a comedian. He makes most of his money in voiceover, though, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, I make, yes.

Which is a wonderful thing to be able to make your money in voiceover and do comedy for fun. And cartoon voices. As opposed to having to do comedy for money. That's right. I used to be the Honey Nut Cheerio Bee. I was the Honey Nut Cheerio Bee for two years. He really was. He was the Honey Nut Cheerio Bee. Bigger taste and a better crunch. There you go. And by the way, he bought a house with that.

How does the Honey Nut Cheerio Bee sound? How does that sound? He just did it. It's got a bigger taste and a better crunch. Even more for your big mouth to munch. And his father was Count Chocula. No, Frankenberry, actually. My dad was Frankenberry, actually. Oh, Frankenberry. Get it right.

So that's quite... Get the facts. Do your backstory research. Royalty in the voiceover realm. We also have with us today Audrey Murray, author, comedian, and we will be discussing... Thank you. And this is a real book, by the way.

It was published by HarperCollins, not... A real book. Well, nowadays everybody's self-publishing. Anybody can write a book and say I'm an author, although some of these self-published books make a lot of money. Anyway, she has a legitimate publisher. By the way, I did want to start off discussing, because I saw, I made it a point to see Nanette on Netflix, the Hannah Gadsby one-person show.

And we're off. And, Noam, you saw it or you didn't see the whole thing? I turned it on halfway through, but I was riveted, Dan. Okay, well, let's get to that. Did everybody see it? I know that, Brian, you said you saw it. I saw it, yes. And Audrey Murray saw it. And, of course, it's now everybody's get to that. Did everybody see it? I know that, Brian, you said you saw it. I saw it, yes. And Audrey Murray saw it.

And, of course, it's now everybody's talking about it. There's, I guess, a light controversy because it was pitched as a comedy special, although that's probably not the most appropriate way to characterize it. It was more of a one-person show. It had comedic elements and drama Drama and it's on Netflix now No, you said you were riveted by it Or you are I thought she waiting it. I mean, I don't agree Well, I probably don't agree with her outlook on everything

But I had a experience I can't Have to respect that most of the specials we talked this, most of the stand-up specials, even by the people I know, I have trouble watching for more than five or ten minutes. But I watched this woman's, I watched like 25 straight minutes of her, and I couldn't turn it off. So that says something.

Well, yeah, I thought it was very interesting, too. I didn't, there weren't a whole lot of laughs, and nobody's really saying that there were, some people say that there were, but I think most people will acknowledge it wasn't a howl fest. No. But I thought it wasn't. I'm always interested in hearing, you know, an interesting story from an interesting point of view.

When Keith Robinson had his stroke, for example, I actually found it kind of engaging when he would go on stage and talk about the stroke because it's something you don't hear. Anyway, what are your thoughts, Brian McFadden, on the Nets special? Well, I always think that whenever I watch a special like that, I don't think that comedy should be put in this box of limitation that people often say, oh, that's not a stand-up special or that's not this. Because, yeah, there's enough laughs in that to justify calling that comedy. I know that there's this controversy. It's a one-person show. It's a confessional.

Is it this? But I thought that it was a fascinating use of the art form, and there was some funny jokes in it, and it was a legitimate examination of the art form that i have not seen uh some of the points she makes and some of the observations she makes as someone who studies and loves the art form i thought it was fascinating to watch someone talk about the the the beats of comedy and how one something's missing and there has to be this these these elements require a joke

and so there was a really, really, really fascinating thing. So I enjoyed it. Is it this revolutionary thing that's going to alter the face of comedy? I'm not necessarily sure about that. Well, in a comedy club, and Noam's a comedy club owner, and Noam goes by the laughs. And, you know, I mean, whether he's there, know he i mean whether he's there whether it's the wait staff or whether it's esty he judges the comedians by how hard and how often the audience

is laughing that's how you determine whether or not to book comics in general is that correct to say no is that a fair statement yeah but but but we haven't but but but. But that would not be the case with somebody who I was aware was connecting with an audience with a different metric, as they say. In other words, if I was in the room and I saw how riveted they were by this woman, then I would probably want to continue. The problem is it's harder to determine whether an audience is... When they're howling, at least you know they like it. When they're not howling, it's a little tougher

to determine. Dan, is that better? Can you hear me better now? Well, I wouldn't go that far. A little bit worse, actually. I would book her. I would book her for sure. Well, now you would because she's famous. But before that, if she was doing a similar kind of an act... I would book her if I thought the audience was

being engaged by her. It is harder to make that determination. It's harder to see fascinating. It's easy to see laughter. It's harder to see non-laughing interest. Well, it also even, I mean, if you watch Richard Pryor's

specials, there are long periods where he is pontificating about race and he's telling stories. But he's Richard Pryor. I know he's a genius. But Noam, as a comedy club owner, cannot take that chance that the audience might be fascinated. Well, ask him. In other words, he's got to make a determination whether the audience is interested. And when they're not laughing, that's harder to do.

I want to ask Audrey. But Audrey, we didn't hear your opinion about it. You also saw Nanette. I did, we didn't hear your opinion about it. You also saw Nanette. I did, yeah. And I also really enjoyed it. I mean, I feel like if people aren't paying attention, that's pretty easy to tell. People start talking, people get up,

make excuses to like, yeah. So I feel like you can tell when an audience is engaged or more to the point, I guess, you can tell when they're really not buying it because they're not paying attention. And so that's why I think you would see that and know that it's compelling, even if she's not famous yet.

Even if the jokes per moment, there's certain comedians who are bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, short jokes like Tom Cotter, Ronnie Dangerfield, somebody like that. But then there's other comics that have long drawn out things to get to a punchline or a resolution. If I may make a ski analogy. Yeah.

We're talking about slalom versus downhill. Okay. Now, Tom Cotter is a slalom skier. Yes. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yes. You're a slalom skier. I'm a giant slalom.

Yes, you're a giant slalom. That means the jokes come fast, but not as fast as a slalom. Tag, tag, tag, tag. And I do that because I don't trust myself to be interesting if I'm not hearing laughter. Plus, I'm always afraid the audience is going to turn on me and physically abuse me. But that's going back to childhood. We're trying to get Hannah Gadsby on the show. Our producer...

I put our producer, Stephen Calabria, on the case. He's working on it. But obviously she's a very busy woman right now. In demand. Unlike us. And she lives in Australia, and we're not doing Skype again. So, you know... If we can get her here in the studio...

I guess we could do Skype. If we get the Skype shit running properly, then maybe we can do her via Skype. Audrey, what did you think? How did you feel about the quotient of jokes, punchlines or whatever in the context of what her special was like? I mean, it didn't bother me. I feel like Tig Notaro had that special that she did where she talked about having breast cancer. And I feel like there's a precedent for that. And most importantly, I think everyone's talking about it.

There was something unique about it that if people are entertained. Well, look, it doesn't matter what you call it. It's either you if you like it. Great. If you don't like it, we're talking about Hannah Gadsby. Fine. I think that comedy specials not be the label that i would use i would probably say one person show as opposed to stand

up comedy but whatever i don't think a label is of overwhelming importance either if you like it you like it if you don't you don't um whether or not we're going to start seeing this kind of thing pop up more often in the in the stand-up comedy world? I don't know. I don't know. No, I mean you're going to see confessional I'll bet you because it's successful. Anything is going to start to maybe a more personal bent

or an attempt to have more confessional type of stand-up, but it still has to be funny and it still has to be able to sustain through an hour-long special in order to be... Well, it doesn't have to be funny the whole time. No, it doesn't have to be funny, but, you know... And it can't be.

I got long bits that draw out, you know? But they're not in that vein. They're not in the... I think it would be hard to kind of replicate that, though, because I think the reason it worked... Well, you have to have a story first. Right, well, that... But I think there are, hard to kind of replicate that, though, because I think the reason it worked. You have to have a story first. Right. Well, that, but I think there are like marginalized people in comedy who probably have similar stories.

But I think the reason it worked is that she was building towards this larger point of like why she didn't think stand up was the right medium for the story she wanted to tell. And so without that, I think, I mean, you see people get on stage and try to do stuff that's overly personal without, maybe they haven't, yeah, so I think that it's not something easily. That's one of the restrictions, yeah. That's one of the frustrating restrictions sometimes about stand-up is it requires this laughter, boom, boom, after everything. And there's so many times you want to be able to veer off and do something, but the art form as it stands doesn't necessarily lend itself to that. Well, the comedy, the art form is whatever you make of it. The comedy clubs generally want to hear laughter. Yeah, yeah.

I guess we should transition a little bit over to Audrey's book, Open Mic Night in Moscow. Very timely, by the way, given all that's happening, given our current weekly, this week's obsession. And I'm sure it will be different next week. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. That's the anonymous, the anonymous gnome friend. We're excited that Mike talked about it.

That's not a support of Trump. He's excited to talk about it. Excited to talk about it. Not supporting. Well, do you want to talk about Audrey's book or jump right to the Helsinki Summit? Let's just talk briefly. No, no. Let's talk about her book.

Talk about her book. Open Mic Night Moscow by Audrey. So, Audrey, just briefly tell us about Open Mic Night in Moscow. Well, it is a humorous travelogue about a year I spent traveling alone through the former Soviet Union and doing comedy and getting myself into all these crazy adventures and getting out of them. And yeah, we really lucked out with the timing of this because when I took this trip in 2015, and back then, like Russia was like a weird, you didn't have a lot of people talking about it certainly wasn't in the news in the same way.

And so I think it's like an interesting look at, we hear so much about Putin right now and like, you know, Russian interference, but this is more about daily life there. And how did you stumble into, I mean, how did this come together, this tour and this whole journey? The true and embarrassing answer was that I'd had a lot of Russian boyfriends. Not a Russian American but Russian

from Russia I mean one of them like is an American now but they were all born there so Russian Russia or I mean like Belarusian Ukrainian different parts of the former Soviet Union but yeah that was kind of like where the interest came from and I just became more and more fascinated as the years went on is there a Russian comedy club circuit or something? There kind of is. Yeah. Like the Soviet Union had this weird instead of college sports, they had like college competitive comedy. It wasn't stand up.

It was like sketch improv type stuff. So they have clubs in all the major cities and they're starting to do stand up. And yeah, it's really weird to see. Like, I mean, I've been to a bunch of different places where like a stand up scene is growing and developing. and they're starting to do stand-up. And yeah, it's really weird to see like, I mean, I've been to a bunch of different places where like a stand-up scene is growing and developing, but it's especially weird in the former Soviet Union because you have these stadiums where people go to watch college students

like do sketch comedy. And so you did stand-up over there? Dan. Yeah, go ahead. Yes, Noam. I think, did I miss it? Is she doing this in English? Do you speak Russian? I assume she was doing it in English i miss it is she doing this in english do you speak russian i'm a i assume she was doing it in english yeah i was doing in english i speak russian they don't

speak english in in russia well they do in like the big city in moscow and saint petersburg those were the only places in russia proper that are you russian as well no i'm not it makes no sense it's really like you said you speak russian you speak Russian. I speak enough to get by. Not to get by. Yeah, but I could not do a show in Russian. Yes, no. But it's not American expats or American tourists. I think it's actual Russians.

Because I go to Russia a lot. And my experience is that nobody speaks English there. Yeah, I mean, I think... Well, they weren't laughing. She didn't say they were laughing. Yeah, there was a lot of Google Translate people holding up an app. English there. Yeah. I mean, I think. Well, they weren't laughing. She didn't say they were laughing. Yeah. There was a lot of like Google Translate people holding up an app. No, definitely in like in Moscow and St. Petersburg, people definitely speak English.

Yeah. The bigger scenes are obviously the Russian language scenes. But even like when I was doing the shows in Moscow, the people for for the most part, who were performing were Russian comics who just preferred to perform in English. I think their reasoning was like, if you want to do anything beyond Russia, you have to be able to do it in English. Did they heckle in English? Was the heckling?

Yeah, but heckling was so weird. It was like, the whole thing was kind of like a dialogue. And so like, you, everyone was just like going up there, doing their sets, but then like the audience would like respond or ask questions. I mean, yeah, everywhere you go, I feel like there's a different vibe

when you get on stage, but it was so almost like, I felt like I was in a college lecture hall or something. What is the, what is the, the view or was the view, this was in 2015,

of the United States amongst the russians that you met i assume that they're all uh more or less uh pro-americans over there no so that was when there were yeah well i mean i feel like it's harder and harder the comedy performers must have been because if you like comedy you have to like america right although very weird they would watch so yeah i mean they would watch american Although, very weird, they would watch... So, yeah, I mean, they would watch American stand-up comics, but they would watch it all dubbed in Russian. So, it was almost...

So, they didn't even... Which is a very... Dubbing does not work for stand-up, obviously. It wasn't subtitled, it was dubbed. It was dubbed. You had voices, some Russian guy talking about... Dan and Brian, you might appreciate this. This woman is a perfect

textbook example of a vocal fry. She has a perfect vocal fry. I hadn't noticed it. Is that on purpose? I work on it. You're right. She does vocal fry. I think I get it when I have really bad allergies.

Yeah, she's got a lot of vocal fry, no question about it. One thing she doesn't do is start every sentence with so, which is another trend nowadays. Very big in the voiceover community, vocal fry. You have to be able to do that. The fact that comedians are being dubbed would be a good opportunity for Scott McFadden to show off his skills as an impressionist or something? Dialect, you know, could you maybe do Chris Rock being dubbed in Russian?

Oh, man. In Russian? I can't do it in Russian. Well, you wouldn't be actually in Russian to be making up a... I'm tired, tired, tired. No, but you have't do it in Russian. Well, you wouldn't be actually in Russian to be making a... I'm tired, tired, tired. No, but you have to do it in Russian. Oh, I have to do it in... What is tired in Russian? I'm ziblat, ziblat, ziblat. What is it?

Ustal. Ustal, ustal, ustal. How are you... Thanks, Dan, for putting me in there. Well, I thought you were going to rise to the occasion. I wasn't bad. Obviously, yeah. You want me to do Russian accent? That I can do, but putting me in there. Well, I thought you were going to rise to the occasion. I wasn't bad. Obviously, yeah. You want me to do Russian accent? That I can do, but not for in second.

Yes, go ahead, Noam. We have you. We have you. Well, I'm here with a doctor. Vocal fry. Vocal fry doctor. A psychiatrist. And she says that the studies have shown that a vocal fry,

women do it to try to compete and appear more intelligent. They don't realize that's the reason, but it's a way of sounding smarter. Does that sound right? I thought it was a way of sounding more feminine. Like, oh my God. I thought it was a way of sounding more like the Kardashians. That's basically what I thought it came from.

I never heard it associated with. No, seriously. That's where I heard it. Ah, totally. I just think it's like valleys. It's like, it's like. That was what I listened to. But yeah, now I can hear myself doing it. Now I can heard it associated with it. No, seriously. That's where I heard it. Oh, totally. I just think it's like Valley. That was what I listened to. But yeah, now I can hear myself doing it. Now she can hear it.

It's a cousin of Valley speak, I thought. But in any case. No, in the voiceover world, it was definitely the Kardashians that said that the Kardashians started that. And women started emulating it. No, no, I'm saying it's not. But the popularity rocketed because of that. Yeah, that was the big person. See, she sang it'm saying it's not. But the popularity rocketed because of that. Yeah, that was a big person.

See, she's saying it. Henry Kissinger started it. And now I do it. Henry Kissinger. Yeah, a lot of people. I feel like he's really trending these days. I would like to tell the Soviet Union not to. So, no, I know you're a big guy.

Henry Kissinger as Kim Kardashian, ladies and gentlemen. Wonderful. Wonderful. I was wonderful. You can probably get a lot of work out of that. I feel like that would be very independent. I definitely will talk to him. Noam, by the way, ever since the Helsinki Summit, I said, well, I got to hear what Noam thinks about this. Because Noam always has an opinion on Trump.

And this one, to me me seems a little bit... I have a little bit of a harder time ascertaining what his opinion would be on there. Usually I can kind of guess what his opinion is. I thought it was terrible. Well, there you go. Oh, there you go. That's my opinion.

That was it. Terrible such that it rises to the level of impeachment or treason? No. Why would anybody say that because everybody's saying that a lot of people are saying that half of the twitter is saying that

I think that's missing the whole point go ahead Brian what's the point people are arguing over what treason is I was writing it's like well what happened there I don't know if it rises to the level of treason I'm writing, it's like well, what happened there? I don't know if it rises to the level of treason. I'm not

sure that's what we're talking about. What we're talking about is an American president. Well, if it's not treason... But we're talking about an American president in a foreign country siding with a foreign leader and trashing his entire country's intelligence apparatus and taking

the side of believing the foreign leader and a foreign rival over his own government. But if it's not treason, then what is it, and what grounds would there be for impeachment? Well, I mean, those are all separate questions. But hit Noam first. Noam, your thoughts. If it's not treason, then what do you got? And how can you impeach somebody for just doing something that you might regard as, I don't know what. Noam, would you like to take this one?

I'll weigh in after. Well, I mean, I'm in Maine, so I've been kind of out on vacation. But, you know, this idea of impeachment for saying something is, I mean, that's crazy. I don't see how they can impeach him. I mean, I understand that the suspicion is that Putin has something over on Trump. And people are saying, well, and that's the reason he's saying what he's saying. I'm actually skeptical of that. But if they could prove that Putin had something over on Trump, I suppose that would be impeachable. Well, something seems bizarre. To me, watching the scene, just playing Occam's Razor and not knowing anything, just going, what's the simplest explanation? Something seems odd that an American president is showing such deference and such – No. I can explain it. Okay.

I can explain it. I can explain it in two ways. A, I'm not sure what to say first. A, I haven't seen Pat Buchanan's reaction to it, but I guarantee you Pat Buchanan supports Trump's... He's a big fan. Big fan. What's that? Pat Buchanan's a big fan. Yeah. So my point being is that there's a big strain of conservative thought, which has always felt this way about Russia, felt this way about Crimea, and is not suspected of being corrupt or under Putin's thumb. And they just feel that we have taken the wrong tack with Russia.

I have some sympathy for that point of view, actually. And number two, Trump, we know, is very, very thin skinned. And he does not want to open the door to anybody saying that he didn't win the election for real, because then they would be calling for him to resign or whatever it is. So he immediately shuts down anything which might sound that way. Look, he's done these ridiculous things before. Look at what he did in Charlottesville, what he said about the KKK. I mean, nobody thought that Putin was controlling him there.

Or when he says that Ted Cruz's father tried to kill Kennedy. Or when he says he has the biggest crowd sizes. I mean, the guy says these ridiculous things. I'm finished. There's one thing to say that, like, I had the biggest crowd size or whatever. It's another thing to actually say that your own intelligence to to basically discredit the findings of your own intelligence agencies in the presence of that foreign leader whose country and whose intelligence apparatus is accused of interfering in democracy. OK, but you're right. But let's spin that out. Let's let's presume Trump said, yep, they they the Russians did it.

And it may it may have affected the election, which is what the intelligence base said. Or could have just been more diplomatic. What is his reaction going to be at home? Or could have just diplomatically said it's an ongoing investigation. There is evidence to support the idea that Mr. Putin and his apparatus did indeed. It's still under investigation. We hope that is not the case. We hope that is not the case. We hope that is not the case. And we hope for.

I agree with you, Brian. That would have been smarter. But that's not Trump. But I totally agree with you. That would have been the best thing to say. And by the way, why would why would Putin object? In other words, Putin, if Trump is really under Putin's thumb, then Putin will give Trump latitude to not act like he's under Putin's thumb. I don't buy that Trump would have to say this stuff to satisfy Putin, even if Putin, and

Putin's not an idiot. He's not going to expect Trump to give the whole, give it away. They're going to want to keep it a secret. So I don't think that Trump would have to say this kind of shit to please Putin, even if he really is in cahoots with Putin. Right. But that's like censoring.

People are going to capitulate to someone even more if they feel like they have damaging. I mean, he has every incentive. She's saying that there's no there's no explicit agreement between Putin and Trump. Trump just feels the need to to to do Putin's bidding. I guess that's what you're saying. Or go above and beyond that. No, I'm saying that if I had a guy that I was in a corrupt arrangement with...

But maybe it's not an explicit arrangement according to Hannah's theory. And they don't have a way to communicate. What's Hannah's theory? That it's not an explicit arrangement. That it's more implicit. That Trump perhaps fears that Putin has something on him that he may or may not have. That it's it's more implicit that trump perhaps fears that putin has something on him that he

may or may not have but it's not an explicit yeah i guess that could be but i i don't know trump killed more than 200 russians in syria trump is is uh pressuring the germans to stop buying natural gas from russia trump is, you know, those are real things which would have a real impact on Putin that Putin couldn't possibly like. A few words about the Russia investigation. I mean, I just don't see it. Let me ask you this. Does Trump. And my friend says Trump did walk it back, although I will stipulate that I think the walk back was because.

Well, the walk back, nobody believes. I think somebody may have threatened to resign. I think he was afraid somebody. I don't know this, walk it back although i will stipulate that i think the walk back nobody believes i think i think somebody may have threatened to resign i think he was afraid somebody i i don't know this but i mean let me ask you this i can imagine there are people there who would resign is it you know doubting the cia and all my life i've been hearing people trashing the cia you know the cia you know they they could they killed kennedy or you know, they, I mean, you never know what the CIA, I mean, it's sort of a national sport to talk about how bad the CIA is. Yes, but not to a, not to a foreign power, I mean, that's different to say that you have

skepticism, and you want to have... But the point is, is it betraying the United States to say that you think the CIA is wrong? And is Trump not entitled? Well, if you trust the foreign government more than you trust your own intelligence apparatus, and you basically are saying that that guy, oh, I trust him just because he said it, it's not like the KGB is the most honorable. The question is, is Trump allowed to have, rationally or irrationally, is he allowed to have his own opinion with regard to the validity of an

intelligence report is he allowed to have an opinion about it and and to voice that opinion can you go ahead noam yeah there's two layers to that one is can he have his own opinion and of course he could have his own opinion because uh uh he might think i mean don't we kind of wish that bush had been more skeptical of the intelligence agencies uh when he said they were weapons of mass destruction but he is still the president united states and he's still supposed to have the judgment to maybe keep that to himself um there's i don't see any positive outcome that he could not positive you're absolutely right he should have kept it to himself

but words are being used like treason and traitor and my point is not that what Trump said wasn't boneheaded because it certainly I think was and unbecoming of the president but a traitor I don't think is a fair term to describe it

well it's not I mean Traitor, I don't think, is a fair term to describe it. Well, it's not. I mean, Mueller's going to do an investigation. Well, that's the word that's being used, traitor. Well, by some people. By everybody. By many, many, many people. Many people on Facebook, Twitter, some people in the media, but not everyone is saying this constitutes treason as defined by treason.

Or traitor, which is not the same as treason. I know, but that's the media environment we live in, which is hyperbole. The issue of even some lawmakers just questioning whether or not the president is showing good judgment does not necessarily elevate their... Yeah, but the screaming and yelling I'm hearing is not the screaming and yelling of, did the president use good judgment? The screaming and hollering, which, by the way, will be gone next week with the next crisis. But the screaming and hollering is at such a pitch that can only be that either they're saying traitor or by the vehemence of their screaming, they're implying traitor. You wouldn't scream this hard if it was just, well, maybe it wasn't good judgment.

This is an unprecedented turn of events. This has never happened before. Trump is unprecedented. Everything he's done is unprecedented. I absolutely, but that doesn't mean... I know, but that doesn't mean... If people are screaming and yelling this loudly, then the only thing that would justify that screaming and yelling is if he was a traitor.

And I don't believe that traitor is the appropriate way to characterize this situation. But I think the people who are screaming and yelling are exactly like you said. It's the media. I mean, it's not interesting to watch people be like, well, did he really use the best judgment he could have in that situation? Well, that may be.

I mean, from what I just see in my limited, from what I see on Facebook and Twitter in my limited worldview, there's a lot of screaming and hollering from- But those are also not policymakers. No, that's true. What I'm saying- That's right. I know they're not, but the point is,

is a lot of people are using the T word, both two T words, treason and traitor. And my question is, is that justified and appropriate? But my friends and your friends on Facebook saying the word traitor doesn't mean anything. I'm saying, who is saying that exactly? What lawmakers are saying that? Forget lawmakers. I'm saying if there is a mood in the country wherein this man is a traitor, and this is felt by millions of people, and I don't know how many people feel this way.

I can only judge by what I see on social media. The question needs to be asked. Is he a traitor, and was this treason? Well, because you have to define what's— As far as the legal definition of treason is concerned, I haven't heard it. Most people seem— Okay. definition of treason is concerned. I haven't heard it. Most people seem... Also, there is an ongoing investigation

and Noam was talking about what his motivation could be and whether one of the things that's unsaid and unspoken is because it's still going on, is the fact that there's this ongoing investigation of Russian collusion. Still going on. Not settled yet. Everyone's going,

there's no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. Trump knows whether it's collusion, still going on, not settled yet. Everyone's going, there's no collusion, there's no collusion, there's no collusion. It's like, they haven't proved it yet. Trump knows whether it's collusion or not. Yeah, but he doesn't perceive things the way a normal person does. And he might not be the one to know, by the way. If there's someone in his campaign that was colluding, that's still, I mean,

he might not have direct knowledge of everything. Okay, so you're saying that because this investigation is ongoing. It's ongoing. We don't know everything yet. There's an ongoing investigation of collusion. There's an ongoing investigation of money laundering, of Russian infiltration of the election and influence. There's all kinds of things going on. So everyone's going, is he a traitor?

And some of that is based on, well, we might be finding out the tip of the iceberg right now. And there might be a connection between Putin because some people are looking at this thing and saying, what is going on? This doesn't make any sense. Then let's find that out before we use those words. But even if we use the word traitor or treason. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Somebody. Noam. Who's gone? Noam, go ahead. This is my theory. I've said it to you before. I don't know if I've ever said it on the radio. If Mueller knows that Trump is a traitor, that he's under Putin's thumb,

I believe he would have to bring that, if he knows it, he would have to bring that information to the American public immediately because you cannot leave the American president a traitor for a year. You just can't do that. He could do terrible things. And by the time you report it, it would be too late to undo those things. So I don't believe that Mueller has any smoking gun of Trump's being a traitor. I just don't believe it. And they're saying he's indicting Russia of Americans. And I can't say just don't believe it. That's why he's indicting Russians to Americans. I can't say his name, but he says that's why

they're indicting Russians to Americans. He's invited Manafort, Papadopoulos. It's not just Russians. Plus, Bob Mueller is very by the book. He's not going to go public with this.

He's been hired to deliver a report to, I always forget if it's the Senate or the House. Well, I just want to focus on what Trump did in Helsinki. Let's just assume there's no collusion. And is it just what Trump did in Russia? In and of itself, the act of a traitor. That's the question that I'm posing. But why is that relevant? Very relevant when people are screaming and yelling every day that he's a traitor and he has to be impeached for that reason.

But impeachment is something that the Congress would have to bring and they're never going to do that. So why does it matter? It matters when a large part of the portion of the American public thinks their president is a traitor, that's something that needs to be addressed and that's something that needs to be discussed. Maybe it does, but there's no legal recourse for addressing it. I don't know if there's a legal

definition of what treason is exactly and can someone be tried. Treason, there is a legal definition that it does not meet by everything, according to everything I've read. The definition is because Trump trump we're not at war with russia so right away um that's the main reason so that it wouldn't be but but is he a traitor is this the act of a traitor you can be a traitor without having committed treason under the legal definition. Is this a betrayal, a fundamental betrayal of America? And that's a legitimate question, and that's a question that has to be posed, I think.

And Noam had said it wasn't in his— Well, if we're talking about legal distinctions, or are we talking about— Forget legal distinctions! Go ahead. Traitor is not a legal term. Make a wish, kid. Yeah, how will you make a wish? Traitor is not a legal term.

It's just a term that... It's something you feel in your heart. Do you feel in your heart that he stabbed America in the back? Caller, you say what? Dan, let the make a wish kid get in. Go ahead. The Obama... Former President Obama, the first thing he did when he got in office is made what was widely talked about as an apology tour.

He went to various countries overseas and did what a lot of Americans said was treasonous then. He apologized for all the things that America did. And he came up with these theories of leading from behind and things like that, which a good amount of Americans thought made America weak. Now, Trump is the reaction to that kind of thing over a few years. It's just a matter of policy. There's always going to be people who are going to look at these things and say that they're treasonous or against our interests. But it's all a matter of who's looking through that lens. So if you're going to call what Trump did with his words without really

reviewing what the policies that are currently in place that he's doing that are against Russia, you have to look at that through the same lens as somebody who's going to look at what Obama did is also being treasonous. But Obama put sanctions on Russia. I mean, I think that. Yeah, so does Trump. Trump wants Germany to stop buying oil. He wants NATO to act in concert against Russia. I don't think Obama apologized to Russia and Trump is now trying to make up for that. Obama apologized for a myriad of American policies to people who many felt that he should not be apologizing to. It wasn't Russia, but it was other countries. He spoke in many Arab countries. He spoke in quite a few countries around the world and said, basically laid prostrate and said that America is guilty of a ton of things and we are sorry and we are now going to lead from behind. We are not going to take the lead on various and sundry things.

And many people on the right, and again, it's the lens that you're looking at it through, but many people on the right had the same opinion of Obama that people on the left have of Trump now, which is that he's committing treason. He's putting America in a weak position worldwide. And it's not something that we want to tolerate. It's the irony in morals against their own people. Go ahead. Well, but anonymous caller. Thank you, caller. Yes, certainly.

I guess the accusations of treason and or traitor were leveled against Obama. But this seems like a fundamentally this level of reaction, not that this is completely unprecedented with Trump, because we probably had just as much of an outcry after the kids were separated at the border and after the Muslim ban, or some would say it's not a Muslim ban, was proposed. But this seems like a lot stronger. People even saying that this will be a day that lives in... The Supreme Court said it wasn't a Muslim ban. Okay.

Whatever. But I'm just saying, does this feel to you fundamentally... No, but it isn't just... It isn't just... Fundamentally different in terms of the level of the reaction? There's numerous people on the Republican side that have a voice, which is rare, have voice there. And Noam as well, Noam is right wing completely on everything, but he's saying he found it appalling. A lot of people on the Republican side found it

appalling. And that's why Trump was even forced, rarely, to walk something back. So this isn't just liberals screaming on Twitter or whatever. There's been a universal condemnation. No, I'm saying there's a universal condemnation from all sides on Trump on this one. Well, that's what I'm saying. This seems like

something that is over and beyond anything we've seen before. Yeah, it was in terms of the reaction and whether and maybe in terms of the the act itself. I mean, this act is completely unprecedented. Who are you asking? You know, I'm in modern in modern presidential history. I guess you would. But Trump is unprecedented in everything he does. Well, I mean, I can't think of any president

who more blatantly threw the top echelons of his government under the bus like that. We've never seen anything like that before. Ever, ever, ever. And it doesn't seem to be good management, you know.

But he does this kind of thing. Do you think this will have a... It's not treasonous. Do you think this will have a tangible... I mean, I think for me the bottom line is will this have a tangible effect on the country? Is this bad for America? It pans out, pans out. I mean, I am always fascinated.

He has people close to him like Pompeo and John Bolton and Coates and Mattis. I mean, whatever you think about these guys, they are patriots who stood for certain right. Kelly stood for certain conservative hawkish principles and believe very much in their country. And they're behind the scenes there. And I just have to believe that if one of them smelled the whiff of treason, they would get the fuck out right away. I just can't imagine any of them, let alone all of them, carrying water for a traitor to the United States. So reading between the lines, I have to think that there's something more going on than something so obvious as extortion, you know.

But I don't know. Well, no, but there's always been that. No, there's always been that other argument about Trump, which is that it just seems that he he was in financial difficulties. People, he established contacts and some connections with people in Russia who lent him money. And he's maintained connections with those people, not to say that they own him necessarily, not to say that he's under their complete and total influence. It's just that in the perception of some people, Trump is such a narcissist that he thinks that what's good for him and anyone he likes is good for everybody and the country. And he operates from a position of self-interest, which he feels that's good because they like me. And so I'm for them.

And I don't understand why people aren't on the page with this. Right. Putin likes me. So why don't you people get on the page with this? Like Trump sometimes sees the world through the solipsistic kind of narcissistic lens, which kind of precludes him all the time from seeing any kind of other perspective on things. And that's it, which is different from saying he's under Putin's thumb. He I think he's operating from some kind of personal psychological affinity or perspective, which causes him to take the side of someone even against because he likes them from a personal perspective, even against his own government agencies. And that's the point that I would say this looks through.

I would say this appears to me. Make a wish has an answer. I think I agree with you on those points. This was a completely unforced error on his part. He went into this thing with Rosenstein reading the indictment against the Russians. There was no collusion allegation. He could have very easily just gone in and played that hand. And all he had to do was...

I agree with you on this. And I agree with you that it was the narcissism that made him grow it into a bigger thing that he didn't need to do. And he does this all the time. Yeah, I don't necessarily think it rises to the level of treason. What I perceive is this, is it rises to a level of narcissistic dysfunction that makes you question what this person's perceptions of the world really are and make me nervous for how he deals with the larger issues that a president has to deal with on a daily basis. If he's fitting everything through that

prism. Plus, I mean, he's just revealing himself to be so... But I would ask you this question. What's the number one character trait that anyone who rises to the highest office of the land has to have? Oh, of course. Narcissism. Narcissism. Absolutely. But there's pathological narcissism

as a psych major. There's pathological narcissism. And everyone has narcissistic trends. Everyone. Tendencies. We're talking about a matter of degree. Yes, exactly. And that's the thing. But conflating, again, my only point here is that, yes, I agree with you, but conflating the narcissism with some other nefarious thing, I think is just taking it a little step too far. Yes, I'm not saying it's right. I don't get the right thing, but I don't think it rises to the level of treason and all the other noise that's coming out of most of the media. I probably would agree with you on that.

It's just that. And that's why this treason thing to me is a misguided interpretation of this thing, because I think what what's even more what's scarier in some ways is how far a person with a narcissistic disturbance and a pathological worldview that Trump has, what that will lead him to do in a crisis situation or in future negotiations with people like Kim Jong-un or whoever that can play to that aspect of his self-absorption and narcissistic dysfunction in order to play to that, to get whatever they want to make him, manipulate him to do what they want. And that's what worries me, not this this other aspect of that we're talking about here about treason i think the russia thing can be seen through that lens far clearer and to me that is scary and that is something that needs to be addressed but people don't talk about that nearly

as much like people say you know talk about these other issues and i think this is one that to me rises to the level of of concern more than some of those other takes on this that I've seen. Yeah, right. You know, I mean, I more than the guys around me, I have a lot of sympathy for that point of view. But I do have I do also have sympathy for the idea that we are in a kind of game of chicken with the Russians about Crimea that nobody's even thought through about how to get out of it. But I would I would be a lot. The problem is that the alternative of this this asinine ultra left wing rising social Democrat identity politics, no belief in private property. You know, this this whole movement, which is so scary to me.

And unlike Trump, who will be there for two years and gone or whatever, if they get an office, they are going to do shit that's going to be permanent. And, you know, I'm just kind of crossing my fingers and hope that Trump's worst, the worst aspects of Trump don't tank us. But no, is it permanent? We have a fluctuating government that changes law. I mean, look at Obamacare. Things can change overnight and within a few years. It's not permanent. And if you want to talk about permanent, look at the judiciary right now. I mean, that's going to be for generations. What's permanent?

The government programs, as they expand, are very, very seldom undone, even by Republicans. You know, one thing about Trump, I think if I had, you know, I think that we've seen that everybody gets co-opted, left and right, even Reagan to some extent. So something about the reality of Washington and going to cocktail parties and not wanting to appear too harsh and get along and all that, which wears people down. And within two years, they're just going off and signing big budgets or whatever it is. And it kind of takes a vulgar guy who doesn't give a shit what anybody thinks about him to really make a dent in that trajectory. Amen, brother.

And, you know, I just wish he weren't so imperfect about it. So I'm rooting for the best outcome with him, but I at the same time agree it's a very high risk game because the guy sometimes just seems to be totally fucking out to lunch. So I don't know what the answer is.

Whatever the name of that woman that won in New York the primary, I don't want her as my president, you know't want whatever the name of that woman that won in New York, the primary. I don't want her as my president. You know, Octavio Cortez. I think her name was Octavio Cortez. Yeah, yeah. Let's and Audrey Murray have a word. And well, sometimes as a woman, you know, she gets it's harder to get my vocal fry.

Your vocal doesn't compete with the male voice. And by the way, and by the way, I also I like the fact that he's pro-Israel. And I know that the, I mean, Joe Biden is pro-Israel. Hillary Clinton is pro-Israel. But Bernie Sanders is not. And the new generation on the left is anti-Israel. And I know Brian McFadden doesn't care about that. Hey, no, guess what?

What? I'm Jewish. My mother's name is Levinson. You didn't know that, did you? Just because you're Jewish doesn't mean you care about it. I want to let... I'm just letting you know. But you threw the McFadden in, so I figured I'd... Jeanette Levinson is my mom.

You're being very clever. Do you care about it? Well, am I a supporter of Israel? Yes. Answer the question. The witness will answer. I just said that. I am a supporter of Israel.

That doesn't mean I have to support blindly everything on every issue. Oh, yes, it does. Okay, go ahead. I want to let Audrey Murray get away with it. Well, I was going to say. Let the woman speak. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Of course. Yes, go ahead. I want to let Audrey Murray get away with it. Well, I was going to say. Let the woman speak. If you want to go back to. I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. Of course not. Yes, yes, yes. If you want to go back to like Russia, though, I mean, the last czar of Russia was a, you know, very brash, outspoken person. I don't know that I agree with that idea that those are the people who are really able to affect change. Because I think in a lot of cases, actually, what they do is completely undermine whatever

government they're representing. And it leads to a cult of cases actually what they do is is completely undermine whatever government they're representing and it leads to a cult of personality yeah and it leads to well it can lead in that direction or it can also just cause whatever institutions are in place to everyone decides that these are so broken that the only thing to do is to like violently overthrow them not that i think that'll happen but i'm just saying I don't think that people who are not afraid of what other people think are the ones who are really able to shake things up. I think, or if they are, it's not in the way they're intending. They shake things up because they destroy any trust people have in those institutions. Reagan did come out of that mold where he was mocked

mercilessly for the things he was saying about the Soviet Union at the time. And polite company rejected him and his dumb views. And he turned out to have a certain insight that the sophisticated people didn't. No, I'm saying Reagan didn't call the Soviet Union a shithole. I mean, I think Reagan, if you were to put Reagan and Trump. Yeah, but evil is so Union a shithole. I mean, I think there's a huge, I think Reagan, if you were to put Reagan and Trump. Yeah, but evil is so different from shithole. Bush called North Korea and Iran, and I forgot the other one, the axis of evil. There's precedent there.

Well, Reagan called Russia the evil empire. Right, but that's very different from shithole. Did Trump call Russia the shithole? No, no, no. He called any of the other countries. It's a very different level of rhetoric. Like, Reagan might have been, he was still very square in whatever way. He did not fit into the mold.

Trump is just like a crazy person. He says whatever comes to his head, whatever he feels like saying. Okay, and on the flip side, as I always say, Obama was very genteel and very, very, he had great rhetoric and classy and all that. And he sat by and 500,000 Syrians died when he was the only person on planet Earth who could stop it. And, you know, so what do you make of that? Wait, but no, what would you have had him do exactly about that? What would you have had him do in that scenario exactly? No, I'm just—

In Syria? If you're going to draw a red line, you have to keep the red line. Absolutely. He drew a red line in Syria and then—and by the way, and then didn't live up to it. And even Panetta and Hillary and the people closest to him were furious with him. And then he... One second, I'm almost finished. Then he refused to...

He could have had a no-fly zone in Syria. This is before the Russians were even there. The only reason the Russians were in Syria was because of Obama's miscalculating. And ISIS. Well, I mean, this is not an area that I'm as well-schooled in. If you want to talk about Honey Nut Cheerios, though.

If you want Honey Nut Cheerios or the M&M... I was also the M&M peanut, for those of you playing at home. Anyway, but no. But what would... Because knowing how the American people, and even people, especially oftentimes people on the left, and the way the Gulf War turned out, our eagerness to further engulf ourselves in another conflict

that was Middle East related at that time didn't seem to be that, as far as I remember, the Syria conflict and Obama's involvement in it, it didn't seem like this country was calling for us to get deeply involved in Syria at that time. Am I missing something? Yeah. No, you're missing two things. Okay, go ahead.

Saying to get deeply, getting deeply involved, no. But a no-fly zone would have not been deeply involved at all. But there's a larger point, which is what you're describing is exactly why we got into World War II too late. Yeah, I understand. In that we overreacted to World War I and then couldn't bring ourselves to see the threat clearly in front of us out of the context of what had happened in the past. And it takes a proper leader, like a Churchill, it takes

a great man to be able to say, yes, I know what happened was terrible, but we cannot overreact to that. And Obama was not able to put what happened in the past behind him and see the future clearly.

500,000 people died. 500,000. I'm not trying to bash Obama. I'm just saying that at least he spoke nicely. I just have to ask you a question. At the time, and maybe this is off topic, but I'm just curious

because at that time were you strongly advocating Obama's involvement in Syria at that time? Because I'm not. And this is what's that? I was because I'm always right. But no, no, I'm not even asking that as an attempt to discredit you. I'm literally asking that because I don't recall a great groundswell of of of in this country for involvement in what they perceive to be the swamp of Syria at that time and yes uh millions of people died I'm just asking I'm just asking that question I'm just and also who are we supporting if we get in there yeah right yes

don't take this the wrong way okay go ahead Turn off that fucking MSNBC, alright? Because there was a lot of people talking that way. You just never heard them because you're living in your bubble. No, no, no. You're saying that we had to do something because of the civil war in Syria, that there had to be but there was a lot of people, isolationists, and I'm sure

Pat Buchanan being one of them, who were saying, stay out of it. It's not our fight. Yes, he would have said that. I don't know that he did, but that sounds like him. Yes, exactly. That's my point. It sounds like Trump, actually. It sounds like Trump would be that kind of guy, too, at least the way he always used to speak about keeping America out of things.

But you were saying that he went in there and we did get involved in Syria and we were dropping, you know. Trump, Trump has Trump has improved over the Obama policy. You know, in Hot Temps podcast, another podcast we do, we've had a lot of Arab doctors and people, people from Syria on there. And to a man, they've all said, thank God it's President Trump because President Obama was terrible for us. So, you know, and how can you how can you deny that? They're actually living in Syria. So, you know, it's not these one dimensional. That's all I'm saying.

Absolutely. I totally agree with the fact that nothing is one dimensional. I totally agree. These are complex. A singularity is one-dimensional, I believe. A line. A line. I do recall a lot of neocons not advocating going in at that time to Syria.

I mean, that's my recollection. Maybe I'm not, you know. I do remember a lot of people saying it's a humanitarian crisis. I'm not trying to get bogged down in Syria or Obama or even criticize Obama for making a mistake. Because I mentioned Churchill, but Churchill made huge mistakes in some war, in the Boer War or something. And Lincoln made mistakes. We elevate Trump's jackass statements way, way, way above the actual nuts support a rebel group, even which rebel group are we supporting in World War Two is very clear. You know, we could go in and we could defend France, Belgium, the Netherlands, these countries that had existed before we got there and that were clearly under siege by a foreign power. It's not the same thing in Syria. There's no there's nothing to back.

And I feel like that's what we learned in the Iraq war and in Afghanistan as well. So you can go. I mean, it's a humanitarian. I'll agree that if Obama had honored the red line, we wouldn't be in nearly the problem we have in Syria. Now, you can look at any look it up on either side, any news source. That was I don't know how you missed that one, Brian, but the red line was huge. If you're going to create a red line, you've got to honor that red line. No, I probably did at the time. Yeah, go ahead. You're breaking up, conveniently. I said, what kind of Jew are you, Brian?

Well, he's half Irish. I'm half Irish, raised Catholic. Thank you, Noam. I'm just telling you i i do have some your your dismissal of me using my name just i had to come back with that and throw that in there and imagine if you will if if president trump had backed off his red line in syria only to allow the russians to come in and make a deal with the syrians and get a foothold in Syria. I mean, they would be, you know, they would be viewing that as evidence that he was a traitor. So, you know, it's tricky.

My friend wants to know if Audrey or Brian can tell us if there's anything that Trump has done which was good. Oh, wait, we're getting put on the spot here? Well, he's asking you. Yeah, because he feels. Are you talking foreign policy? Anything. Oh, anything whatsoever. Wait a minute.

First of all, I don't know how I did. How did I get? Well, the board game was pretty good. How did I get put in the position of being like the most anti-Trump person? I blame the Democrats for the fact that Trump is president more than I deem Trump for being president or the Republicans. I feel like the Democrats have compromised their...

That's not an answer. What's that? That's not an answer? Not an answer. Okay, so let's see. Let me think about this. This is a very good question. You get to say nothing. No, no, no. I'm sure there's... Believe me, these knuckleheads next to me, if you asked me if there was anything Obama ever did that was good, they would say no also.

No, no, no. I'm actually going, oh, is there something... But I haven't thought through policy. I don't just trash Trump's policies ad infinitum like other people do. So I've never really thought, is there something that Trump has done? Like, I'm not averse to saying the president... I hate when people just like knee-jerk go, oh, he said he trashed it. I've never really thought, is there something that Trump has done? Like, I'm not averse to saying the president. I hate when people just like knee jerk go, oh, he said he trashed it.

He made fun of this guy's Parkinson's or he did this or he did that. I hate that stuff because it discredits it. And I know you're going, well, say something positive about the president. But now I'm going, let me go through his let me go through his his policies and go and go, OK, what do I support in his policies? I definitely don't support the defunding of the dismantling of the Environmental Protection Agency. So, I mean, I'm looking at all of these various things

like the educational system and the defunding of those things. So I go, okay, I don't support that. I don't support that. But I have to look at... What about moving the embassy to Jerusalem? I'm going to defer to you on that one, Noam. Actually, I'm not sure about that one.

Exactly. Thank you. If it works, I like it. If it works, you like it. Audrey, you were going to say something? I was going to say one thing that comes to mind is when he met with the Dreamer kids and made that statement

saying that he supported that he supported DACA and he did something else too that was similar to that. Oh, when he met with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and came up with some sort of provisional deal that I don't think they ever followed through on.

Those things surprised me and I thought were good. Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. There's one. Well, that's a good one. You did it to drive the Republicans crazy. Yeah, I know.

Well, no, I'm in a week's time. Are we going to be still yelling and screaming about this or will there be another issue that has taken its place? No, I'm warming. another issue that has taken its place. Norm Dorman. Well, I think this is a big one, but I think that it's all... The answer is yes, there will be. I'm trying to do a... What's his name again? John McLaughlin.

What the hell are you doing? John McLaughlin. Issue one, Norm Dorman. I think it's all reaching the peak crescendo. We're going to find out what Mueller has to say. At some point. And if Mueller says there's nothing, people like Brian McFadden are going to be jumping out of windows. No, that's not true.

Actually, Norm, my prediction is that what Mueller is going to come out with, the Democrats are putting so many chips in the Mueller bandwagon going, oh, he's going to come in like some deus ex machina and save the day. And I'm going, no, they're going to find a few things here and there, probably. I have no idea. My prediction, I'm definitely low-balling expectations for what Mueller's going to actually come up with. I don't necessarily think he may have anything. Trump is such a wily, cagey guy.

He always surrounds himself with people who take the fall for him and end up looking like idiots. And he ends up skating away. And that's been his entire career. So why should that pattern not follow in this regard? The answer is Honey Nut Cheerios. Issue two. Is Trump an evil genius or is he a complete idiot, Brian? Oh, I would never. I am not one of those people who think that Trump is a complete idiot.

I've never portrayed him. Oh, he's a complete moron. I joke about it sometimes. But the guy has a kind of emotional, to lack of a better word, an emotional fluidity where he comprehends things on this visceral level that the Democrats should really learn from in order to communicate on a certain level with people. I know a lot of people would say, well, that's racism and visceral communication. But I'm saying that he's not just some, I don't know. People go, is he just a moron or is he this evil genius?

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I don't think he's this evil Kaiser Soze kind of guy. And I don't think he's a complete rube from the, you know, who just completely... I think his... The answer is chaotic good magic user. How long can we run

this hot? I mean, at some point... I want to hear Audrey's take on the is he an evil genius or is he a complete moron? Oh, God. I don't know if I have an opinion. I mean, at some point... I want to hear Audrey's take on the is he an evil genius or is he a complete moron? Oh, God. I don't know if I have an opinion. I mean, I feel like so much of what you've said tonight, I've just been like, yes, that. I would retweet that if we were on Twitter, Brian.

Oh, thank you. Oh, shut up, Audrey! No, I mean, but I have to agree. I mean, you don't become the President of the United States if you're a complete moron. Thank you. I definitely don't think he's an evil genius only because the word genius is in there. There you go.

But, you know, I think, yeah. I think the times when he does demonstrate some level of intelligence or especially being able to cover his tracks, that terrifies me. But also speaks to, I think. There's a certain amazing evasive brilliance in the way he navigates. I mean, I've never seen a guy who can be asked about things he doesn't know about and actually put together some kind of ongoing rambling thing about it that speaks to some aspect and covers just enough territory where there's an ambiguity where it can be interpreted seven different ways. It amazes me.

He very rarely makes a faux pas that blatantly obvious that it's so comical, like the one he did the other day where now he's saying would, wouldn't. Yeah. Brian. Yeah. Brian, while we're debating these things yeah uh the thing you guys are missing and why trump is easily going to skate into a real election probably because you're not focused on there is zero unemployment in this country there There was money, capital flowing into the country. 4.8% growth. 4.8% growth unseen for decades. Yeah, but why are you guys are focused? Yeah, but I'm not focused.

We have to go in just a little bit. I'm getting a signal from Stephen Calabria, our producer. Here's a question that's on my mind is, how long can we continue at this pace of outrage before we all just get tired and just say, ah, fuck it, nothing. Assuming nothing horrific happens. People have jobs. It's all that matters. But the point is, is it will the outrage, the ranting and the screaming calm down at some point if nothing horrific happens? I mean, if Trump says something else that people disagree with, but nothing horrible happens and things are going well,

are people just going to kind of move on and eventually Trump will be background noise and won't be front and center every single day? Or is it we're going to be like this for the rest of Trump's time in office? Every week, another outrage. It will be because he's winning. As long as the economy is floating along and things are growing and companies are moving here and capital is flowing into the country

and blacks and Hispanics and minorities are all working. Except for my son, Nicholas. Except for nicholas that's not the question the question is a job for anybody who wants one that's the issue that's it but that's not the question the question is the international stuff is you gotta be soon strength well our economy is 10 times the size of russia 10 times question is is will people eventually will the ranting and raving settle down a bit? Can we continue at this ranting and raving

level? Stop whining. Alright, Dan. Dan. Dan. Yes. Dan? Yes. Yes. Noam? Noam. So I just want to say I guess we're probably out of time but I'd like to meet Audrey in person and I would like to see if we could organize a panel of three people with vocal fries.

You're going to have to catch me during allergy season. Because I think the conversation between multiple vocal fries and as you're and as you were hearing that pro Trump commercial, I was Googling vocal fry. Do you have a solution? Naomi Wolf, who is a Michelle Wolf is an important feminist. And she has a, she has a piece in the guardian. It says young women give up the vocal fry and reclaim your strong female

voice. Wow. I think we should get Naomi Wolf on the show too, if she could get her. Yeah, totally. I would love to talk to her about that. That's a great idea.

I think women do vocal fry. I gotta say one more thing. Go ahead. I wanna say one more thing. I detected a slight vocal fry in my six-year-old daughter a couple weeks ago. Oh my god, what did you do? A surgeon removed it.

So we took it. I don't know. It's like I think it's just like it's just in the water. Like she's picking up on it for whatever it is. And it's just fascinating to me. I think it is the vocal equivalent of duck face. It's just a la mode and it's considered sexy. Is it considered sexy? Do that's that's i mean sexy

do you know that if we all grew up you know that click sound they make that's so hard to make at the back of the throat that they make in africa yeah right it it's hard for me it's hard for me to actually believe that if i could just put my little baby around some people clicking he would start clicking absolutely it's just right but he would start clicking. Absolutely. Right? But he would. That's the way language is learned. That's like Chinese people. Those are actual words that they're using.

Same thing. They're not just making random sounds. That's a language in there somewhere. I'll start talking like this. Audrey Murray, it says in your book, by the way. Role model. Yes. Wait, are you a staff writer for SNL?

Oh, no, that's Anna Driesen's a staff writer. Oh, yeah. Somebody that wrote a blurb you a staff writer for SNL? Oh no, that's Anna Driesen is a staff writer. Oh yeah, she wrote the book. Somebody that wrote a blurb was a staff writer for SNL, not you. Right. You are just a comic, not just a comic.

Just a comic. It's a high calling indeed, but you're a comic and a writer. Yes. By the way, I'll be in New Jersey this weekend at Bananas.

Da-da-da-da, Bananas. In Hathbrook Heights on Friday and Saturday. And Brian Mark Scott McFadden will be in Aruba. I'll be in Aruba with you. With me. At the end of the month. At Aruba Race Comedy Club in Aruba at the end of the month.

Brian, are you playing Vegas? Yeah, I'll be at the Comedy Cellar in Vegas September 5th, I believe. Brian. Yeah. Yeah. The Jewish part of your brain, Vegas, September 5th, I believe. Brian. Yeah. Yeah. Brian. Yeah. The Jewish part of your brain, the Yiddish Acup didn't think that maybe on the Comedy Cellar podcast you might just plug Comedy Cellar Vegas and not fucking Ray Allen's

double ruba show? I am doing that right now, Noam. What are you talking about? Hold on a second. Okay. I'm right here. September 5th. I'm kidding. I'm right here. September 5th. I'm kidding.

I'm kidding, of course. On Wednesday, September 5th, I will be in the Las Vegas Comedy Cell, the Rio Hotel there. I don't know who I'm working with. It doesn't matter. You can go there. There's two shows, whatever the schedule is. But from the 5th through the 9th to the 10th, I will be there. So you better check it out.

It'll be fantastic. It's the most amazing thing. That was very good. That was very good. You know I'm kidding about the promotion. How's Vegas doing since the last time I asked you how Vegas was doing? Hey, Brian, can you do Natterman? Uh, yeah.

Wait, wait, I gotta... Wait, give me a... You know what I'm not hearing? Enthusiasm. That's what I'm not hearing? Enthusiasm. That's what I'm not hearing. You would never buy, you would never buy, if you talk about it the way they talk about marriage. If they talk about, you've got to work a lot with this car. I'm laughing not at the impression.

I'm not laughing at the impression, I'm laughing at the brilliantly crafted joke. I can't remember the lines. Sorry, Cousin Sheila. Sorry you had to drive all the way over here. It's a good day and bad day. It's a good day and bad day. It's a lot of work. You would never buy any product

if they sold it like they sold marriage. There's going to be good days and bad days. That's very good, Brian. Well, everybody does me. It's like doing Rodney, you know. It's fairly basic. Cousin Sheila, God love her, Cousin Sheila. She's very lonely. Are the numbers up in Vegas,

Noam? Dan, I can tell you with all honesty, the numbers are up, up, up in Vegas. Yeah, baby. We had our best week ever last week. Yeah, baby. Woo! All right. We had our best week ever last week. Yeah. And this is even after the Michael Che show. Yes, the entire week.

Oh, great. All right. So I will be there from the 5th to the 9th already. Can I plug my book? Oh, yeah, go ahead. Plug away. Just to make sure there's a special, so I'd like to plug my book,

Open My Heart in Moscow, available July 24th, wherever books are sold. And there's also a launch on July 24th in Brooklyn at Powerhouse Arena in Dumbo. And this will be available online in Kindle form, I gather? Kindle form. Or Nook? Kindle form. Don't worry, Norm. What about an audio book?

There's an audio book. They hired someone else to do it without vocal fry, so you don't have to worry about that. That's the whole appeal. I know, to do the whole. I would have liked to have done the audio book, but I guess they've already hired somebody to do that. I could see your voice being,

I could see you really working well. It can be a little weird that it's like a first person. Are there any sexual escapades in this book? It's mostly escapades Really, there's like Four or five But certainly you took a lover whilst you were in Russia A woman gets lonely on the tundra

To find out A woman gets lonely on the Trans-Siberian Yes, know him Know him Yes, what? What I would like to talk about Maybe we don't talk about it today, but maybe Steve can get a show together on it, is the N-word. What about the N-word? What about the N-word?

Well, people are dropping like flies now from big positions for saying the N-word. In a certain context. It's hilarious. Even when you're talking about the N-word itself, about how you can't say it, you're not allowed to say it. That's right. It's hilarious. Even when you're talking about the N-word itself, about how you can't say it, you're not allowed to say it. That's right. It's hilarious. It's hilarious. And on the one hand, Quentin Tarantino writes dialogue with the N-word all over it.

And he's a great genius. And Samuel Jackson does his movies. Yeah. But you can't even quote the N-word to say, you know, we should really be more careful about the N-word. Or if somebody in the news says the N-word, they can't say the N-word in the news,

but we can still read Huckleberry Finn. It makes no sense. I don't know what the answer is. Ed Asner is being people are mad at Ed Asner because he used it in Roots in 23, 40 years ago or whatever

or Lenny Bruce they're mad at Dustin Hoffman for playing Lenny Bruce and saying it in a movie like I mean it's yeah it's nuts can you retweet the n-word we'll have those answers

thanks and more for you on the next episode of live go ahead Noam you can more get away with racism than you can with saying the n-word if you're trying to

fight racism this is another episode this is why this is one of the contributing factors yes all this and more in our next episode this is where I'm coming from This is another episode. This is why. This is one of the contributing factors, yes. All this and more in our next episode. This is where I'm coming from. There's a story in Japan about how racism is very big in Japan.

And it's very big in Japan. And you always, like, because there's, but the thing about racism that nobody realizes is that people go, oh, America's such a racist country. The reason we're such a racist country is that we have races to be racist against. These other countries don't have. There's no racism in China or Norway because they don't have any races. One of the prime components of being a racist country

is having other races that you can be racist against. So one of the beautiful parts about America is there's so many people we can be racist against. And that's why we have races. Thank God we have other races, and these other countries get a free pass because they can't... Nobody hears that, oh, there's a video of somebody

being racist against somebody in China. You don't see that because they don't have any people that they can be racist against because it's a marginalized country. That's my point. Racism is beautiful when you put it that way. Can you take that one more time from the top, but this time do it in like a real Japanese Don Rickles accent?

Yeah, let me get right on it. Well, there are European nations with a fair amount of diversity that people say are less racist. I don't know if that's true. I know, but that's one of the things. They get away with it. People go, oh, they're not racist in other countries. We got to end.

We got to end. We got to end. Okay. Thank you, everybody. We'll get to the bottom of this next time on Live from the... Thank you. Whatever this show is called.