The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Candace, Rogan, D’Souza — Normalizing Antisemitism with Ami Kozak

Episode Date: January 7, 2026

Comic Ami Kozak joins Noam Dworman, Dan Naturman and Periel Aschenbrand in-studio. They discuss the dangers normalizing anti semitism and take some calls from viewers.

I know he's prepared. Okay, Dan. This is live from the table, the official podcast of the World Famous Comedy Cellar, focusing on Jewish issues. I'll stop with that. Okay, go ahead. Today it's true, but that's true every day.

And sometimes we do talk about congestion pricing. This is Dan Natterman, here with Noam Dwarman, owner of the comedy cell. Perry Al Ashen brand is here. We have Ami Kozak musician, impressionist, comedian. He joins us. And happy 2026 to all of you here in the studio. And those of you listening, it's the new year.

Nome rung in the new year, as he always does with great fanfare. He was playing his music here at the club on New Year's Eve. And it was good to hear. By the way, Dan, before we get into it, I'll tell you, I can't tell you how many people made a point of coming up to me and telling me how great you were on New Year's Eve. Oh, well, I appreciate that. It doesn't seem to be reflected

in the work that I'm getting here. Well, this is, by the way, James Lindsay was our previous. I could remember who was. James Lindsay was our guest before our last episode. That wasn't Jewish issues at all. Okay. All right.

And then we did, before that, we did Hanani about the Epstein things, which is not an Israel issue as far as I'm concerned, although the anti-Semites seem to think it is. But, yeah, so I think everybody was like, know, they recognize the hysteria in your voice whenever you talk about how you don't get spots like you used to or something. So everybody wanted to make sure to tell me, Dan was really good. You should really give him more spots. Dan was really good. So you had an unusually good spot on New Year's evening?

No, I don't think it was unusually good. But, you know. What did you do? It was like a spark. Everybody was like, he was the best one. He was the best one. Well, but also the problem is that the people that were saying that maybe weren't the demographic that. that it was all 60-year-old Jews. No, no, it wasn't. It wasn't, Dan's always unusually good, though. You're always that good. Just take the compliment.

Well, I'm taking the compliment, but I'm also explaining that it wasn't unusual. But, you know, when Bernie is there and Don is there, they're going to like me more than the average. No, from what I heard, move on to other things. What I heard was that you killed. that it was that it was the consensus of the room acclamation by acclamation that you killed on the year's eve

so maybe we just get a lot of older people on the year's eve anyway congratulations on that well thank you so anyway so so where are we so we're trying this live thing

I don't know if anybody's live we didn't really push it but Ami has a show me you have a lot of Twitter followers right? Yeah they're building slowly but surely You know, way more than I do. Videos are going around. Baruch Hashem. And, but we want to get this technology up and running

so that we can actually do regular live shows and take callers. It was a little bit of a debacle last week. I'm sure you need some screeners. That was insane. I got so many messages about that. I think it was bad? No, just saying that, like, it was insane, right?

Like, that one guy came on. He was like half-naked, screen. That was the best part. And Steve didn't show it. How did you know he was naked? That was just for me. No, it's a video. Oh.

Oh, they were. So, anyway, so before we get into it with Ami. I'm looking forward to that. I want to fight. Do we have anybody there now, Steve? We have people watching. No one on the line. Okay, so tell anybody, if anybody, like this is Ami.

Ami is like a Jewish folk hero now. If anybody wants to ask Ami a question about anything, we might let them in just at the top. It's already starting nicer than last time. This is good. Jewish folk hero. Just to test out the... He's closing in on Modi, I guess. Okay.

Modi's... Okay, so anyway. So, last week we had on... Yes. Your friend... Oh, look, before that... Yes. Eight months ago, ten months ago, we argued

about the conspiracy theorists on the right. Mm-hmm. And at the time, I told you not to distinguish between Tucker and Rogan and all those people and you and and again just be very clear it wasn't that I considered Rogan some sort of hateful anti-Semite right but that in for all intents and purposes his show features the same people that the other shows are featured and that he doesn't push back on them any more than Tucker does since then this whole issue which I believe I was

I must have been the first person in the country really worrying about this stuff um now it's obviously nobody can deny it anymore like it's the number one issue in in the country can deny what that the uh the as they're calling them the woke right you know i don't really i like that term but yeah all right i i don't i can't really internalize that term but um some people call the woke reich but anyway this that i don't like but i like woke great this uh cabal of candace hoens nick fentes jake shields uh um who am i missing darrell Cooper, Dave Smith, Ian Carroll,

all of them together, right? Are hijacking, are so powerful now that even the vice president, even though Nick Fuentes called his wife a jeet, and I'm married to one. I take this first, my wife's Indian also.

What kind of man doesn't immediately, you're the vice president, how dare you call him? He's obviously afraid to do that. Oh, Megan Kelly was afraid to speak out against these people. Yeah. And this is a full-blown fire, a forest fire, a bonfire, a conflagration, as it were. And my position was, well, if we had just clamped down on this earlier, instead of double-talking, maybe, maybe not, but at least we could say we tried. Instead, everybody found a reason not to deal with it. No, it's not not as bad as you think, no, it's this, is that, it's that, he doesn't mean it, but he's joking,

such bullshit, right? Just bullshit. Now, the, the cow, who's left the barn? The, who's left the barn? I'm not sure about that. The pig left the barn. Something's left the barn. The genie's out of the bottle.

You can't put the toothpaste bass in the tube. Right, right. This is a real problem. Do you, looking back on it now, thinking about the fight that we had, do you think you underreacted? no okay go ahead i would say that one could argue and i would argue that the lack of discernment the painting with such a broad brush left everybody maybe more confused and not as precise in being able to identify the nefarious people versus the people who were being manipulated by them

versus the people who were falling into dangerous pathologies and when you paint with such a broad brush and hit with such a huge hammer you kind of lose a lot of credibility who you're going to put in the category of so, like, low, like, I don't know what your, what, what characteristics one would need to have to be just manipulated by the Holocaust deniers. And it's like, I don't know. Like, I can maybe manipulate my eight-year-old. My 12-year-old would already tell me bullshit, dad. What are you talking about?

So, so which adults do you want to put in that category of just like hapless and helpless, manipulatable, malleable, mindless people? I couldn't say them, but it. It'll trigger you and I won't be able to get another word. No, say it. I'll, I'm going to give you 90 seconds. People who were manipulated by nefaris actors. Who are you saying shouldn't be in the category that we're talking about?

I would say someone like Theo Vaughn, for example, manipulated, not a manipulator. I would say even Rogan stepped into dangerous pathologies because of his openness and curiosity that went over his head. And he's done it several times over. He still, I think, hasn't had Candace on since we last spoke, hasn't had Fuentes on. so I think he is operating with

with some level of being able to see it but 90 seconds yeah okay thank you but in order to be taken seriously and when we sound these alarms to be taken seriously on this it's important to have discernment and be able to identify who the nefarious actors are that are doing this and who especially amongst the younger generations in the Groyper movement that I had some experience with recently

are falling for this and are being manipulated into this there are people manipulating them and I'm not saying they're guilt-free of all of it, but if you swing a huge hammer and knock over everything will be blind, deaf, and dumb going into this fight. And if you actually are able to identify the specific behaviors, the patterns, and the people behind them, I think you're taken with a lot more credibility than just gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, and like, you know. Let me tell where I think you're wrong. When you are, when you need a cordon sanitaire, is that how you, I don't know, when you need to prevent the spread of a,

of a dangerous disease. Yes. You don't need to endeavor into the motivations of the people spreading it. You are right, probably. I probably agree with you in the case, but it does not matter. Now, I saw a clip, and you know, I'm very, very good about always looking up the entire context of a clip. Absolutely. I'm going to speak now about a clip I did not see the entire context for, although it would be hard to imagine a context, but where Joe was talking to Shane Gillis, and somehow the, I think this was, somehow the issue of whether Nick was denying the Holocaust came up. He's like the last line of the episode, yeah. And Joe says, well, is you denying it or just? It wasn't Shane Gillis, he was saying that.

No, Shane Gillis would never. No. It wasn't Shane Gillis who was the guest. It was a different guy. Shane Gillis had an episode with Joe where Fuentes came up at the end and they gave out about it. I'm conflating this. And then there was another guy who brought up Nick Fuentes and called him a Holocaust denier. And Joe responded, you were going to say?

He said, well, does he just deny the Holocaust or is he just debating the numbers? So. I can explain that, I think. Yeah. In a way you wouldn't like, but it's true. Well, go ahead, explain it. Okay. Well, if you had a comment to make so I can respond to it, I'll...

Well, the comment is that that is the trickle-down of a bubble that he's in, where somehow, before our eyes, what you and I both know is the meat and potatoes of Holocaust denial, which is what they all say is... Of course, something happened. But it couldn't be that many. Yes, but it's the wrong bubble that you're talking about. And yet, somehow, years into this, he's still involved with that, number one. And number two, clearly, he's titillated by this stuff.

And although everybody says he has such a curious mind, that's belied by the fact that he doesn't take the time to, the 31 seconds it would take on chat GPT to satisfy his curiosity about this stuff. So this to me just seems to be an indulgence. And I can't say enough. I don't know him. We have friends in common. Every single person that I have in common with him loves this guy. And I have no, I have, clearly he's not some sort of Nick Flentes or Ian Carroll or Candace Owens.

And yet. and yet everybody knows me knows this I would if I recognize if I recognize those qualities

in somebody in my circle I would immediately throw them out of my circle so curious mind or not and by the way

and I'm quite tolerant you don't have any crazy people in your circle who are just kind of nutty I have vehemently anti-Israel people

in my circle that doesn't bother me but I won't have people who are, you know, saying that the Jews kidnap, or that the Arabs are kidnapping, you know, people every year, Passover or Ramadan, whatever, like, I'm not going to have vile racists as part of my circle. I'm just not going to. Well, first of all, you know, everyone's got their different areas that they're less comfortable with, even at the extremities. Like, there's no one in the extremes versions of your politics where you're like, that's a

far, but I'll keep them in my, uh, even though I wouldn't endorse that view publicly. Maybe, maybe, maybe. There's always edge cases or there's always situations where you know, but you know somebody personally, so you might, however, can you, I would definitely not have a steady stream of these people on my show, unchallenged, and not even the following week, bring on the people. Like, if I was going to have the nerve to say, well, you know, the numbers in a ha-ha, I would immediately say, you know, let me get on an actual expert to speak about this.

because I'm actually saying something pretty fucking controversial here. Yeah, I think that the Joe Rogan reaction to saying, is he a denier or is he doubting the numbers, is a reaction to a bubble, but it's actually not the right-wing bubble that you're thinking that's trickling down to him, like the woke-right sort of white nationalist bubble that's infected that particular reaction.

I actually think, and I mean this, and this isn't bending over backwards to not, to try to see Joe and Rose. I see who generally is bending over forwards to these people. Well, I went to an all-boys high school, all the time, but diehard. You have to remember something, and I pay very close attention to what's going on here.

The guy said, you know, the word Holocaust, he's a Holocaust denier, right? The word Holocaust denier. Now, we know what that means. For a long time, the term denier was attached to so many other subjects, and this is coming from the woke left bubble. He's a climate change, denier.

he's a vaccine denier and the response generally from a rogan type and those in that circle was well is he a climate change denier or does he just have questions about the science or the catastrophe claims is he a vaccine denier or does he just believe in other kinds of treatment is he a holocaust denier or does he just debate the numbers now you're attaching it to a whole other narrative which i'm aware of in which jake shields because i mean i guess it happened it was a lot less you know maybe it's like i don't think it was like six million and that's the way you kind of chisel away until you get to the point where it didn't happen, but we wish it did happen, we kind of need it to happen. It becomes this whole incoherent mess on the sort of far right side of it. But I sense Joe's reaction when he hears that is when you label someone a thing, he's a Holocaust denier. And then Joe responds, well, what does he actually say? Yes, does it behoove him to do the research and do the things that would satisfy you? Sure. But I actually think that's where that comes from, if I'm being honest with how I assess his reaction to that, is climate change, denier, vaccine denier, Holocaust

denier, there is a left-wing label smear that used to come at anything they deemed disagreeable and they would label you a denier. You can't just be skeptical, you can't just have questions. Now look, I just hope if I say... That's where I think that's coming from, and I'm being totally honest. I want to know what

magic spell, like what are the magic words I can say, that if I start saying these things over and over and over and over again, that people who are actually like you deeply offended by the things I'm dabbling in bend over forward

to make these excuses for me I don't know what his magic spell is here I think it's rapport I think it's trust I think it's track record Nick Flentes goes on the air and says it's about Jews you're all guests here

yeah I mean you're fuck you Jew boy like he what I think Nick means by that no so so it's not as if you're hearing Megan Kelly Yeah. Or me.

You say, well, you know, the numbers, you know, this ranges of 5.7 to 6.3. I maybe the 5.7. It's not like you're hearing somebody, a person that you can assume is coming in good, academic, intellectual, good faith is actually inquiring about the numbers. Is it five? Is it four trying to get to the actual precision, history, scholarship, yeah. You're talking, you're having a reflex here to imagine good faith on the Holocaust issue. of Nick Fuentes. No, I'm not. I'm not. No, he is. I'm having, by extension,

what I'm saying is do you think Joe Rogan, if he was having a conversation about the Holocaust numbers, would be doing it in order to arrive at a place of Holocaust minimization and denial, or he would want to know? I don't know. Why isn't he inviting Deborah Lipstadt on the show? Of course. He's that curious about it. Well, you're taking a comment he made

in passing with somebody who was bringing up Nick Fuentes. they're not having a conversation about the holiday. No, it's in the context of all these things. Yes. I just think there's just a difference between a Joe Rogan who a Joe Rogan and a Nick Fuentes and a Candace Owens and a Tucker Carl's. I'm not even doing. They're very different. And a Megan Kelly. Yeah. Of course it's a difference. But as I've been saying over and over,

what they do is as they give each other respectability. Because if you can go on the Rogan show. I think that's what Tucker did with Fuentes. Not what Rogan has done with Fuentes. No, but he did it with Ian Carroll. He does it with Candice. He does it with Alex Jones. He didn't do it with Candace. Of course, talk to how she's awesome. She's grabbing all the third rails. She's, yes, they speak, they never speak badly of her.

Do you know how these people react if you try to say that the vaccine works? The anger, the venom. I get it. I think it's just best to focus on the actual. There are people maybe misdiagnosing it, not reacting as properly as we would like. I'd rather focus most of the exposing on the actual nefarious people doing this, like Tucker, Candice, Ian Carroll himself, Arthur Kwanley, and not the random associations that people may, who may be not watching to the same extent we are, or as closely. Daryl Cooper?

Daryl Cooper, I've changed on a little bit because I wasn't as familiar with him last time when we spoke. But then, you know what did it for me? It was Coleman's piece when he mentioned a quote of Daryl Cooper's about mine conf. And it was chilling. But again, I didn't. And he also recently tweeted that is the two greatest experts he wanted. He says, I'm good.

but someday I'll be as erudite as these two people. These were card-carrying Nazis. Right. I just think that there is a difference between people who fall for dangerous pathologies versus those peddling dangerous pathologies. And I would focus the battle on those peddling them. Ami, do you think that... You would never heard of Al Cooper except for these people.

Do you think that Joe is willing to entertain, not out of necessarily anti-Semitism, but willing to entertain that the Holocaust was vastly exaggerated? Joe's willing to entertain if Martians exist on this earth and if all sorts of crazy ideas. Oh, wait, I'm willing to entertain it. I'm willing to, you know, I have...

And I've seen these ideas that you're talking about even trickle into someone like Joe Rogan who's made comments and you're just like, ooh, without even realizing it, like the way you're characterizing Jewish power or money or influence the walled garden. He said that to Jordan Peterson. Well, it is a walled garden.

I mean, we all know that. I mean, what's a walled garden? The Jews are a walled garden, you know, that we have all this, influence and then we and even Jordan Peterson said what do you mean by that you know it's like it's a walled garden this protected group that keeps each other together and has all these goods and prosperity and we don't share it was it was the implication there was I could see these anti-semitic ideas seeping in to the mainstream there's no question about it but the question is

who is look I don't want to get bogged on a roll game because for some reason it can't but but again I just make a distinction between this is what Jordan Peterson said there's a difference in people who step into dangerous pathologies you know and being led into it, I think more innocently than those peddling it knowingly. And I would rather focus a lot of my attention on those doing it. And this is about treating the cancer. I'm not trying to... Rogan is the least of my

ire here. You don't see me tweeting about him, whatever it is. But I just find it astonishing. If the show were just like a newspaper and the stories that the newspaper carried were the opinions of the people on the Rogan show, we would clearly classify that news.

newspaper in a certain camp. That's exactly what podcatistan is and legacy media. And this notion that anything more than that is required is dangerous to me because if the New York Times editorial

page started carrying this cast of characters, we would be wanting to burn the... We would be fully activated and we would not give a shit whether Arthur Salzberger had a curious mind, Well, it depends on the nature of the interviews, too, wasn't it?

We would never take that. You judge the product as the product. Who is in charge of the product? This guy. Why is he like that? Trust me, he's not like that. I don't, of course, I believe him. He's not like that because of the reasons that Daryl Cooper is like that.

He's not a, who cares why he's like that? His product is damaging, not just to the Jews, to the entire notion of truth in the world. Because it also says, we didn't land on the moon. and the vaccines don't work and chem trails are real and demon attacks and Tucker and Alex Jones is a divine prophet. To the point where I was valid, but to the point where I tweeted out reason about it, I said, I defy anybody to tell me, to make something up that Tucker Carlson could now say which would be considered nutty by his following.

I defy you to think of something. I think I'm just, I'm not saying Tucker and Joe are identical figures in this space. And I think there have been podcasts. that have participated in the mainstreaming of these ridiculous ideas to a further extent than Joe, even though Joe has done that. And I think being...

For the further extent, but they don't have a billion people listening. But being critical of it, the fault of Joe is like what John Stewart said. He happens to also just be the biggest podcast and has the biggest audience. And this is what Sam Harris is talking about, that say what you want.

You have a responsibility. If you can do that much harm, even if you just want to talk to anybody or whatever, then there's a responsibility. I understand that. But I just think... Do you understand it? I do.

But again, I would focus my energy and attention and I are at the very people who are actually the villains here. Is Joe doing this? And he's not just some tool when he had people on that I was very much in favor of that had really good ideas that was just as beneficial as we could say this is harmful.

You know what I'm saying? If Joe is being sincere in these views, then you know I mean, do you attribute some other motive than just Joe's... What views are you referring to? The views that perhaps the Holocaust was exaggerated and perhaps we never landed on the movie. He didn't say that

though, that's what I'm saying. Don't be confused. He said, did Nick Fuentes say the Holocaust didn't happen? Or did he just debate the numbers? He didn't say himself, well, I don't know if it happened. I mean, he didn't question the numbers. He was asking about the characterization of Nick Fuentes. Okay, now one could say, you should do a little homework

and say, you don't have to characterize Nick Fuentes any which way. You can just watch a few, you can literally, Nick Fuentes doesn't hide it. There's nothing to hide there. The question is, do you think Joe Rogan has an interest in willfully hiding or mischaracterizing Nick Fuentes' views? I don't. There's a bottom line difference here.

This is really the, I think the only, this is the way I would describe it without wanting to offend, mischaracterize anybody. There's a certain reaction that I have to people peddling irresponsible, untrue information, especially information like that which can lead to horrible consequences

for the country or for people. This is not what... This is, I'm getting to this with Josh Hammer. This is about any group of people around any issue. It originally started for me about COVID. Yeah. Like the idea that whatever the nuances of the vaccine are, that if you look at the statistics,

people in red states ended up dying much more than the people in blue states because they didn't take the vaccine. Don't look at life. This is clearly established. Ami, I will bet you $10,000. You want to take the bet? I'm not necessarily denying your statistical analysis. We don't have to re-litigate the COVID stuff.

But what about the responsibility of the medical institutions that lost the trust of a lot of people because of very bad ideas that they're mandated on everybody? Joe Rogan didn't force ideas. Mandating is nothing. So I'm saying that... Mandating is everything, forcing people. It's not the point I'm making. I'm saying that when you are, when you're trafficking in information, Like the nuances of the vaccine, where the consequences are dire, you have to take it very seriously.

Yes. These guys that we're describing from the most innocuous Joe Rogan through Megan Keller down to the worst of them, they don't seem to worry about this whatsoever. As a matter of fact, behind closed doors, I'm pretty sure they laugh about it. there's nobody saying, yeah, yeah, I think Nick's, you know, shouldn't we worry, be worried about this guy who's saying that non-white people ought to be thrown out of the country and Jews? Like, is that somebody we really want to be just like yucking it up about and looking to defend it?

No, they don't, there's a reflex missing there. And they happen to be among the most powerful people in the world. And we are seeing in the polls of young people the effect of this, the bottom is falling out from under things we thought were disposed of. Right. So I think it's valid to say as a constructive critique of a lot of these podcasters who I don't think are bad people

and don't have bad intentions, not a lot of them, a few of them at this point, like a Rogan or anyone with comparable audiences, that while you may just want to kibbits and joke around about anything, and it's your right legally to do that, to not be aware of the responsibility you may have because your audience is so big

and the impact you may have of peddling. I'm something more than that. No, I'm just saying, I'm understanding what you're saying is that just so I understand you correctly, they have a response, given the fact that they, whatever ideas,

whoever they put on, will have impact in the culture. They have a responsibility. Let's take it to our own side because this Josh Hammer thing is what's really bothering. So, in other words, is that what you're saying,

though, that because they have this massive audience, it's like what Sam Harris said. Like, it's going to do harm if you're not, responsible. So there's more of a responsibility that comes with it. I'm saying, I'm saying two things, actually. One is your responsibility because you have the massive audience. But I'm also saying, even if you don't have a massive audience, even if you're somebody like me, who has a tiny audience, there's something about the conspicuous

lack of that reflex, which I can't get out of my head. In the same way, as much as everybody loves Charlie Kirk, you love Charlie Kirk, he spoke beautifully for Israel and all that stuff, The fact that two times he took to a microphone and speculated that Netanyahu purposely let October 7th happen in order to consolidate power two times within a year, I can't get it out of my head. Like I'm saying that's just not compatible to me with someone who is thinking clearly about Israel. Obviously, you have certain reasons that you're pro-Israel. Maybe they're purely like religious scriptural, maybe because you hate the Muslims more. I don't know what's going on here. But clearly, if you believe that the Israelis, you know, in a widespread conspiracy to allow their children to be killed and raped and all that stuff,

and they just sat idly by following orders, then you have some sort of sick opinion of these people. And don't tell me otherwise. I would tell you otherwise. I would say, though, that's... Oh, come on. If I said that about you, if I said it about you, who could tell me I don't think you're scum? You know, I like Army, but you know what? I suspect maybe he let his wife get raped.

Okay. That doesn't mean you don't have a bad opinion about Ami. Right. Come on. Well, you haven't met my wife. But here's the thing. You follow me? You can explain to me a hundred times.

I'm telling you, maybe I'm wrong. I feel like my mind. That's the way my mind. Just to be clear, it's not just an indictment of Netanyahu, but all the people that would have to have been in on the conspiracy. Yeah. Let me get to that in one second. It just feels like you spend a disproportionate amount of energy.

trying to call out or condemn the people fighting the fight incorrectly rather than the people who were actually fighting against. No, I'm not disproportionate. Okay. Whatever. It's just that you're not doing it right. Let's say we're in a room and there's a cancer to treat, right? You're like, you're not doing it right.

You missed it. You didn't say it right. You didn't identify it correctly. How did you not react when it showed up on the screen as opposed to, let's get rid of the cancer? Let's identify who's there. I think that the people who know him is talking about are the people who are spreading that cancer to millions and millions and millions of people and as such

making it more dangerous. Making it hip. They've made it hip. Yes, I understand that. But some people are doing it. What I would say is... It doesn't matter why they're doing it, does it? Like, at the end of the day...

Of course it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter why. Right. So then why are you so committed and on... on trying to figure out why they're doing it and attributing a motive to them or a condemnation to them or a label to the people who might not be spreading it without

realizing it. I don't think I've ever said it mattered to me. When the issue comes up, I will acknowledge that I understand that people might have different motives and I don't consider I don't consider Megan Kelly a hater of the Jews she wasn't until

the Jews got so annoying to her. And I suddenly don't consider Joe Rogan a hater of the Jews. I don't. But that doesn't make him any less a spreader of these. He's part of this story. When the history of this story is told in history books for this period in our thing, they're not going to have an asterisk here, but, you know, Joe Roganville, they're going to say these people spread their ideas on this show, that show, and that show.

And this is how they came to be the powerful third party that they are today, or however it was. Is it the fact that they had them on or the way they conducted the interview? Both, both. It's the way they conducted it more than that. Noam's all for having anybody on. He would, you know, he's even...

Of course. I think the conduct of the interviews, too. And I attributed more to the pattern of things, like in the case of Tucker and having Fuentes on and having a softball, cozy interview. I think what Ben Shapiro did at Amfest was warranted.

You were there. I was there. Tell us about it. Let's button up the Charlie Kirk thing, too. Okay. I was at Amfest, but also in the aftermath of October 7th, everybody had this vacuum of questions,

how could this possibly have happened? I don't think Charlie was saying that to, I think he was saying that out of outrage for Israelis, not as a way to condemn Israelis. He was saying it and attributing it to the government apparatus that was going on and how could they have less something like this happened?

And I think, yes, inartfully, and it was reckless to say, was there a stand-down order. That was a provocative. And then he said it again almost a year later. And that was a provocation. He said, I was right. And then he did all-

a year later. I remember saying it early. It was an article in the, I tweeted about it. There was an article in Jerusalem Post about just intelligence failures. Intelligence failures, okay. And then Kirk took some lines out of context to claim that he had been right when he was on the... Intelligence failures, and people conflate language and mix up terminology all the time to sound kind of more formal and official about these kind of things.

You're attributing to saying, was there a standard order? I want to know, in his mind, is motivated by was there a massive government failure? Not, I'm condemning all the Israelis as scum. I got to tell you something. You know what the problem is? Given his track record on defending Israel and the Jewish people. people and standing with Israel, I would say that if I had to guess where that's coming from, it's a desire to have answers and a massive security failure by what the government's supposed

to be doing. I'm going to tell you something. You're not going to like this. I'm right and you're wrong. And I am such a, I can tell you this, I'm not, by the way, and I'm not, Liz will tell you, I'm not like, like, um, like I'm not like an ecomaniac. Yeah. I am such a sharp judge of character. Yeah.

In my life since I was a child. Right. And you think Charlie wanted to condemn all of Israeli society as scum? No, I didn't say that. I could say, I am, I'm in tune to people. There are certain things that people say that indicate their inner soul on matters. When Kirk said this stuff, it doesn't mean he's a hater of the Jews. Of course not.

But it means that he's ready to believe certain things about. them, which other people never would. Our friend Michael Moynihan, if you said that, who's also a lover of the Jews in Israel, or Coleman, if you said, they'd be like, are you out of your mind? Of course not. These people, like, to imagine that any people would have a mass conspiracy to allow their own people to be slaughtered, do you think Kirk would believe that about his people? Never. What do you mean by his people?

Whoever is the people that he feels akin to. In other words, would you ever believe that? Would Ben Shapiro ever believe that? Why would Ben Shapiro never in a million years believe that? And Charlie Kirk did. What would you describe as the difference? You're loading in a lot of... Just answer that one question.

You agree that Ben Shapiro would never think that, right? You're asking me if I would agree that Ben Shapiro would never think that someone in the Israel, government would betray that Netanyahu would issue a stand-down order stand-down order doesn't mean he didn't think it up means it's passed down to the military across the country for seven hours or whatever it was

that's what Charlie grew up to. Did Charlie say Netanyahu issued a stand-down order that was passed down to the military for everyone to stop? Or did he just say a provocative term on the podcast? He said there's protests going on against Netanyahu was there a stand-down order to consolidate power? I think I'm just maybe more charitable in the sense

because... Charitable doesn't make you right. Being right makes you right. But there's no, this is a subjective thing. You're attributing to a line. Ami, just answer my question. Yeah. Why would Ben Shapiro never have said that, but Charlie Kirk did? First of all.

We know the answer. No, everyone, I don't agree with you. Everyone has agreed that there was a massive intelligence failure on October 7. That's not a standout order. I understand. Don't muddy the water here. I'm not muddying it. So I'm just building up to where we can consensus.

No, it's irrelevant that there was a intelligence failure. What's that? This is, it's irrelevant. I'm painting the climate of what happened on October 8th. We were all asking the same questions. How on earth can this happen in Israel, the most secure country that monitors all these borders?

So in that vacuum, in those initial raw, painful conversations, people are going to say a lot of shit. And I think you're attributing a little too much weight and detail and nuance to what Charlie was trying to say. Are you a tamburik-ju? Maybe Candice Holmes is right on you. I am definitely a tamarik too. I have the back.

I'm just saying you're attributing a lot of weight and intention to what Charlie meant by that. And I guarantee you, if you asked five more follow-up questions, he might have given a much more suitable answer. Then, do you actually mean this? Well, no, no, not that. I've spoken, the second you actually engage with people in good faith and get past their first provocative statement

in a world full of provocation. He said it twice. It's possible he never thought it through, as you have thought it through, that it would require a massive conspiracy rather than just one bad apple like Netanyan. For you to say that people are flawless in their track record of what they say,

I've said things on this very live stream. I'll probably say, I probably could have said that better. He said it. And I'm sure he could have said that. Twice. He said it seven months later as a defense to the fact he got trouble for saying it the first time. Oh, there was an intelligence failure. So I was right.

So he was trying to equate stand down order with intelligence failure. Which is also faulty thinking. No, no. What was the second? The article only said there was an intelligence failure. But he used it to justify. Trying to save face for a very provocative controversial thing that got him in hot water. That's what people.

People are flawed. That was a flawed thing to say. I thought that was a really stupid thing to say. Yeah. But I don't attribute, like, ah, this is revealing of what you truly feel about the Jews or Israel. I would like you to answer. I think that's me being right. Can we talk about Josh Hanover?

Can you just? And I can talk about Amfesto. The question that was posed was, why would Ben Shapiro never have thought of a stand-down order? Ben Shapiro wrote an article years ago. Ben Shapiro wrote an article years ago all the stupid things I've ever said. And he detailed them at different ages, at different points of his career, of regretful things he said. people who talk for a living hours and hours and hours on the air

have regretful things to say. Ben Shapiro made that remark about the Arab was wanting to live in in... Squalers. Detritus. No, in feces or something horrible. Okay. And I absolutely would not have the nerve to tell somebody that that is not an indication into how he

thinks. He said that. Now, maybe he thinks differently now like Richard Hanania used to be a white nationalist and has come to a different thing. But at the time that he said that, yes, that indicated a real hatred or bigotry that he had about Palestinians or Arabs or resentment,

whatever we want to call it. It's not like something you utter by accident. He didn't say it while somebody's kicking the shit out. Sometimes statements can indicate flaws in your thinking or your reasoning and not malice. That's all I'm saying. Richard Hanania used to be a white national. We can move on.

I don't think it always indicates malice. You're saying it indicates malice. I didn't use the word malice. It indicates something. But go ahead. Okay. Anyway, what was you wanted to move on? Hammer and Amfest and all the stuff.

So what is your whole take on Amfest, whatever you want to say? You contacted me because I was coming out that your friend Josh Hammer. Go ahead. Oh, well, here's the thing that I found interesting. Like I, for a long time, was seeing the mainstreaming of all these anti-Semitic ideas. Fuentes making the podcast circuit, the Coleman piece that, talked about the two different Fuenteses that present in the online space, the Rumble version to his people, and the, uh, when he gets on these podcasts, and I would, I was always like,

very against these podcasts having him on and debating these things, because what ends up happening is when you do this in front of an audience, it's just him manipulating those mainstream audiences. And it's not like they're moving Nick closer to moderation. It ends up being Tucker saying, hey, you know, he's not such a bad guy. I totally agree with that. We'll get back to that. Shut up, obey. That's what ends up happening. And then it goes from the Overton window.

You could see it happening. We discussed this. It's like, oh, well, these ideas, you know, they're not tolerated. I want to hear about Hammer and Dinesh D'Souza and these right-wing people who are making excuses for Jack Posobic, who was behind Pizza Gate. Who's making excuses for Jack Posobic? Josh Hammer.

What did he say about Jack Posovic? He won't say a bad word about him. He says, I know, worst thing I heard him say was like, I go, I know, Jack, I don't know, like when Sylvioch was... Well, you have to understand a couple things. One, in this internet world that we live in, we are witnessing and watching avatars of people as they perform in internet theater,

and behind that screen is a whole different world of people who know each other in a different capacity. So it can morally create blind spots. Let's play something. Which happened in Charlie's case, too, where he had these friendships with people so he wouldn't see that what they were doing online was as toxic and damaging as it was.

Steve, will you play that video, the one I made you take off the screen when I walked in. Yeah, coming up. This is something that Dinesh D'Souza retweeted. Go ahead. Play the video. Oh, here we go.

Play the video. Do I, should I play it? This is obviously... It's so-called him must be all his eyes on my wrist. He's making... I am the captain now. I, oh, bitch, give me that tax money.

Enter on conduct, daffier, businesses. Okay. Okay. Now, and I, and I, um, do you have that tweet I put up that I sent you, Steve? I, now, this is the guy that, that Josh Hammer, video, video? Defense. I, I got two videos. Just a tweet. I said, just before we do this, we're doing this thing again, where this is the guy that Josh Hammer defended and therefore, I, we get so much in this weeds of who said what about who and not like, you know. And I said, but yes, but a tweet, you have the tweet, I sent up a tweet of the image like the money, the money grubbing, Jew, you know, the famous money-grabbing Jew, the one that... Yes, I do, I do, sure. And I said,

how could you be outraged at somebody who would tweet out the picture of the money-grubbing Jew and defend someone who would tweet out that? And he called me a name. He will not engage with me. Who could say?

Josh Hammer will not engage with. And I, and my, you know, this notion of Ashandra to the going, I'm like, I'm like, you are somebody, we as Jewish people, should be ashamed of. you're not you're not bad it doesn't get worse because all you care about is the picture of the money growing Jew because you're Jewish you do not care about racism you will you will stand up for this Dinesh D'Souza now originally I came at him about D'Souza because of election denial

because I said you guys soften the ground with all by looking the other way to all these right-wing conspiracies. We could kind of play a blame game all day as far as what this game. Yes, let's play the blame game. You have it, Steve? I know the image, but we can pull it up. I mean, you could also blame the entire woke left apparatus for creating an

identitarian, white nationalist disenfranchised, disaffected bunch of kids or falling in pre to anti-Semitism. I want to put, I am not going to get out there. We got to treat the cancer, not, you know, how did you get it? How did it appear? In that case, then, give Megan Kelly, you know, you should,

up on up to the top i can even i can even make a distinction between the money grubbing jew graphic and what the nest is shared i don't know if it's a worthwhile debate hold on hold on click no click the tweet not not my name the tweet double-click tweet all right i guess i just we'll pull it up um i guess i i tweeted the wrong way anyway whatever uh the money grubbing image google money grubbing jew you'll see money grubbing jew you'll see money grubbing jew and they're going to clip you did you see no i'm saying money grubbing jew and all those people who sat around the table didn't correct okay top of god left there. You see that? Yeah, I see it.

Okay. Now, you put that next to that, Samaya, what? Now, now, I, I... He's Bukhari, and I, I know this. Yeah, okay, so we are, we are furious... Why are we furious about this? We are furious at Megan Kelly, hold on, because she refuses to criticize her own. And if you're going to continue

to take positions that you're taking, then just tell Megan Kelly, you're cool, I'm cool with you, Megan. You can excuse Candace, you're right. You know, she has young kids at home, so why shouldn't she deny the Holocaust? You cannot have it both ways. And by the way, the first thing I said to somebody

when this whole thing of Somalians in Minnesota happened, I said, uh-oh, if it was this easy, God help us what the Hasides were doing in terms of scamming the government. Oh, you're, you love going out to the Qasids, don't you? No. Okay.

So then I, so then go back to that tweet, Stephen? Well, he's no great lover of the Qasasas. So, no, I'll actually, I do love the Hasid's, but I do know that scamming the government is not unique to the Somalians. And I do know that our people, the Orthodox Jews, are capable of this stuff. So sure enough. Would you say right now in Minnesota at this moment it's unique to the Somalians? Yes, of course.

So bringing up other instances of the fact that, you know, Tim Walch says, you know, a lot of white people commit crime. That's the joke. That's the whole thing that this is so insane that we can't talk about an issue that's happening right now. When Denester-Suzer tweets that is a joke, the image of the Jew that you're talking about has a whole different historical context. This is very bad stuff you're into here. Of course we could talk about the Somalians.

What's bad? What's bad is that what we shouldn't be doing is pretending that this is a special characteristic of their ethnicity that every other immigrant group scams or this or that. Go ahead, click on some of those headlines that the Hasidic and the Orthodox

don't scam the... Go to the next one. Hasidic school to pay $8 million after admitting widespread fraud. Go ahead. Next one. Press the arrow? The arrow. This is a matter.

Why do this, though? Seven Lakewood couples are arrested a week on charges related to a multi-million dollar welfare fraud scheme. Families are accused. It was like 34. Pointing that, I'm saying like, if when this stuff happens, the way we would like the world to react is some American citizens are scamming the government. This is not, we are not going to use this as shorthand for how we describe the Jewish people. I'll tell you something you want to hear. They always pay Modi on time.

I don't think that's true I will concede that over in the rise of sort of this ascendant woke right that I've seen on the right because for years the left was saying the right, the fascist, right, I thought there was a lot of Trump derangement

and there was a lot of accusing the right of being Nazis where I think it was a boogeyman. I think it was the tiki torches and the fine people on both sides. I'm not talking about the white nationalists. They should be condemned totally. But that part was cut out.

We're in a different world now and now that is actually a real thing. Now, I've become more sensitive in the way we talk about, you know, in seeing anti-Semitism on the rise post-October 7th, it has made me more refined in how you talk about groups in their entirety, right? And how you talk about when I used to, now I can kind of, I kind of understood for the first time, it's like, you know, when an African-American says the way they talk about blacks in crime and are just very loose about the categories, I kind of got a better sensitivity of how that is received to certain communities. However, there's, just because two things seem alike doesn't mean they are alike. In the cases of like, when there's a radical Islamic terrorist attack, there's this rush not to actually diagnose why this is happening in the culture and religion and theology that's motivating it. We say, oh, well, there's a church shooting by a white supremacist over there. And it's like there's this desperation to want all things to be equal and not make distinctions between various cultures that encourage certain things.

There are cultural differences between, and they're not inherent by race. You're not born with a culture. You're not born with immutable characteristics that determine how you behave. That, to me, is where the rate is, and I think the fact that there's actual rise in racism and bigotry now make these nuanced conversations much, much harder because there are bad actors here. But that, that grotesque image, I'm saying that. But I'm just saying the image that Dinesh shares and the image of the Hebrew. You're okay with the image that Dineshire? What I'm saying is, are you okay with the image that Dinesse is a little distasteful?

It's a little much. No, no, don't, don't. But it's a different, I have to make the point. It's a different thing than the image of the Jew like this. because the character of the Jew like this, and it's not just because I'm Jewish, it carries with it a historical context reminiscent of Nazi Germany, pogroms,

the history of the depictions of Jews over centuries that have led to our oppression and persecution is very different than depicting a Somali, I think it's the guy from Captain Phillips, exaggerated as some AI thing, that's a little bit, I mean, this is a silly debate to have because they're both, you could argue, distasteful. But it's a little bit different because what that image represents

if there was never a Holocaust, if there was never a history of Jewish persecution, and you're just showing one depiction of one, you know, a Jewish person which depicted poorly, that's a little different. I think that if he depicted, if Dinesh D'Souza shared an image of someone in black face dancing around, making fun of all black people having to do with the Somalian immigrant case, I would say that those two are exactly equal. Ami. Then what?

In America. Yeah. And that's why he's doing that. He's taking a dig at this. And yeah, you could say it's an artful. It's this face. People like Dinesh Deneh D'Susa. should not be ridiculing people in that way.

Okay. Because some number of citizens, because it was a scandal within their community. That's obvious to me. And Jewish people should not be drawing fine Talmudic distinctions between the two cases. Yes, you may be right. There may be some distinctions.

Clip it. They should both be, they should both be easily described as unacceptable. And then, if you want to draw the distinctions between,

I think that it looks bad in the context of this to get into these fine slices of context here. But the fact that you and

Josh Hammer have trouble calling that out, let me tell you you care about the Jewish people, this is bad for us. You think...

I acknowledge the whole time that I become more refined and sensitive. You're asking specifically about the Nest to Zeus's tweet and how far it went if it's in distasteful? Do you think that when prominent Jews like you guys engage in this kind of stuff that the average general liberal-minded person says, they don't give a shit about bigotry. They care only about themselves. No, no. I think the whole line in the sand being drawn on the conservative side, on principle,

which is what happened at Amphist, which is what Ben Shapiro talked about, is exactly because we do care about bigotry of all kinds. Then call out Dinesh D'Souza. I mean, it's one, you know, and I think Dinesh D'Souza's a bigot? You think he's a racist against African-Americans? Because he teased out of it. Here you go again.

I'm asking you. I think somebody who was sensitive to bigotry would not tweet that out. I don't know what he's about. It doesn't matter to me. The fact that... But isn't humor all about how much it matters and intention when you're doing a joke?

And you could say, oh, God, that's not... What do you think his intention isn't sharing that? It's a dig. No, what I think he's not a comedian. What I think he's doing there is inviting the country to ridicule the grotesque images of Somalians, distorted as that is, because as a way of adding to our, you know, punishment of them as a community for the fact that some number of them are criminals. I think the tension that exists...

Do you disagree the way I described it? A little bit, because I think the motivation is that the tension that exists is that the left is doing the exact opposite, refusing to... I don't care about the left. I want to police my own.

No, but it... What? I'm talking about in Minnesota, the administration and the people and the way the left is responding to this creates this friction and this tension, so it's a dig to say, you're not going to name who it is

and you're not going to talk about who it is because you want to pretend it's just the colorblind society. These are grotesque... I understand, but it's... At worst, I think it's... a distasteful joke not a serious statement or

an attempt to depiction. You wouldn't characterize the money-grubbing Jew as a distasteful joke. We draw a line at that. Absolutely. Any calls? Come on. Any calls? I do, but it's not a double standard. It's a harder thing to explain. But my point to you is also the lines being drawn right now on the conservative

side. That is exactly the point. It's on principle. It's that we stand against bigotry of all kinds. We stand for Western civilization and not tolerating the actual people who mean racism. It's a very hard, it's hard to have... I tried to make a point to you, maybe I'm saying even if you can't do it because you actually feel it,

don't you understand the strategic error here? Yes, I totally do, and people won't take you seriously because you're selective in your condemnation. Are you really going to complain about some sort of anti-Semitic cartoon while you're saying

that this is okay? I didn't reshare his post, that I didn't say this is hilarious and all that. You're saying, but I happen also known that Nisda Susser's work and him as a person. We can leave him out of it for a second. My point is, there are principles being drawn on the conservative side. The Ben Shapir's speech, did you watch it?

But you can ask you question? Yes. Do you see 2,000 mules? No, but I've seen some other of his work. No, but do you think... I asked this very question. I said, look, if all the conspiracy theorists, you have Candace now, you have all these people

who are just making up shit whole cloth and they never have to verify it, how do you distinguish yourself? I had him on my podcast and asked him that. And he said, you know, Ami, I make sure I distinguish between verifiable, this is how he's coming at it. I always, I have a hypothesis, but I always am subject to the evidence and verifiable facts when it comes to it. That may not persuade you, but that's what motivates him and that's how he's operating. You may not like his conclusions or his hypothesis, but I think they're different people.

And I said that to him because I said, you're in this world. It's sort of like Gary Vee in the world of gurus. There's a lot of snake oil salesmen out there, but these motivational speakers, there's a couple of real ones and a bunch of people who are manipulated. I just don't put Dinesh in that category. Dinesh D'Souza actually thought that there were 2,000 people who were delivering fake votes, GPS tracked, not a single one of them reported it came. By the way, it's such trash.

He actually thought that Clinton had a body count. I can't. Okay, we don't have to debate Dinesh. It's a distraction. But I will say, Ben-Cropiro drew a line in the sand at Amfest. I actually spoke to these Groyper kids there. And I realized, you know what? we spend a lot of time pointing fingers naming and shaming at all sorts of people and

a lot of them deserve it i saw myring gains there too i'm like holy shit he's like he's not invited he's not an invited guest but there's not enough courage right now to like say you gotta go because they and ben shapiro said this is the line you have to draw or you will fail i actually spoke to these groyper kids and i just want to tell you they're they're like christian yeshiva bachers they're like these kids who've like they just they're edge lord kids the second you actually they have a script just like far left woke campus kids had they used to say patriarchy whites primacy and these kids say sigh up false flag USS Liberty and then you just snap the arguments one by one and then before you know and I'm like you know you guys are like you want to be successful males

and these alpha males and get mates and whatever and you're looking up to these people who aren't married have no families have nothing going on for them and they and they demonize successful Jews that's their whole career is demonizing successful Jews why do you look up to these people and then the next day a bunch of them came back up to me started asking me more questions because I was kind of cool with them and they were like by the way one of the kids said to me I went to Israel last year. It was pretty awesome. Don't tell my friends.

Like, a lot of it is that, like, what's happening in that younger generation that we think the bottom is falling out from all of them. There are these people leading them astray because no one's speaking out for them. So I got a little bit of a sense of just an understanding and insight as to who this fan base is that's watching Nick, that's watching Myron. And I think institutionally in fighting anti-Semitism, we do a lot of identifying, naming, and condemning. But as far as actual diagnosis and how to treat it, you know, I don't have the answer,

but I realized, you know, it doesn't take much in terms of these kids aren't like cancel culture leftists who are trying to put their fist in your face and say, get out and protest you. They like want to talk and they think they're ready to debate and then you snap the arguments like Dixie Cups and all of a sudden it's very disarming. A lot of them are like, yo, I don't like your views

on Israel and stuff, man, but like you're funny man. And like you realize, oh, there's like this whole generation of kids who've been told. They're white Christian men, they've been told they're worthless, their whole lives and this is what we're dealing with. It's what Jordan Peterson predicted would happen if you play this identity politics. That was an insight from Amphist that I got. And I thought Ben Shapiro did a heroic job drawing that line in the sand

and Vivek spoke well to. Ben Shapiro was great. I must be out to lunch here because these people are talking about demon attacks and underwater space creatures. And they and Ben, and they were called out properly. And the people who wouldn't. This whole organization. Who turning point? Turning point. That whole turning point. Anybody who's any organization that feels it has to invite Tucker Carlson to speak that is trying not to go to war with Candice Owens

Megan Kelly, all of this the stuff we're talking about here is so bad shit crazy. I'm with you. Not just about the Jews. I agree. That's what The fact that this is not just collapsing under its own weight. It is.

And that people like you are inquiring to their motives and they're this and they're not so bad. There was a time when Obama's campaign almost ended because we found out he was friends with Reverend Wright. The L.A. Times held back a photo of him. That was too far. There was a time when you could not play footsie with Nazis. I have not been doing this game of what are their motives? I've been calling a lot of this. Look, I think it would take calls. You have good, you have evil, and then in the middle you have people who are cowardice, people are cowards, people who are naive, people who are misdiagnosing

the problem. That's what's happening in the middle. One can look into their motives. I think that's all fine and good, but still condemn their actions. Yeah, exactly. And that's what I've been doing. Do we have any calls? Yeah, we've had a few. Come on. Hamid, right? Yeah, yeah. So, I think he was here last. There's a lot. Wait, Hamid, Hamid.

Where are you from? New Jersey. Yeah, and you're going to be on my side or Ami side? Because if you're on my side, it's good, but if I'm on my side, I may have to hang up with you. So you know what's funny? I was initially on your side, no, but then you lost me at the end. Okay, go ahead, go ahead.

You judge me, so do you want me to start with where I agree with you? No, no. Get to the heart of the matter. Where did I lose you? Okay, yeah. You lost me when you seemed, if you just allowed me to be frank. Of course, of course. You lost me when you just made it about Hasbara.

And you're like, well, this is going to be, this isn't going to double back against us. And therefore, it's not in our pragmatic interest to be like. No, no, Hamid, maybe you didn't hear what I said. said to Ami was, if you don't have it within you to do it for the right reasons, meaning I feel like I'm that way for the right reason, at least do it for your own self-interest. Do you understand the point? I'm like, I agree with you. Yeah, but when you open that door for him, right, you're saying it's not, that's no longer a principled reason. Yes, yes. Yes, I'm saying, I'm saying you're conceding.

No. I'm not conceding. Let's flush it out again. No, no, I'm not conceding. I'm saying that from his, I'm inhabiting his brain now. I'm saying, from your own point of view, from your own self-interest, even if you don't have it in you to feel what I'm feeling, what NOM is feeling in terms of the bigotry and the immorality of these, what's going on here, at least recognize your own self-interest. But Nome, you would rather Ami say what he feels or say what's in his interest as a few? If he said what he said what, if he just said what I wanted to say, the show will be boring. I agree with this. And this is, well, since we're all Americans here and like, you know, we have the beauty of three speech. That's the nicest thing you've said to me. Go ahead.

Well, come on. I haven't insulted you. No, I'm kidding. I mean, like, somebody calling the Jews Americans. It feels good. Go ahead. Well, his name is Amman. So he, you know. Go ahead. He's not exactly Mayflower. Go ahead, sir. Yeah, well, I suppose not by that standard, right?

none of us would be quote quote heritage americans then right i was just a joke go ahead go ahead well no i but i do think this is an important distinction and well i have a lot to say and i have my own thoughts on the whole am fest i actually watched like all of it and i was like kind of blown away but obviously for a different reason than than you um what what reason were you blown away what reason but make it you know keep it concise but what reason were you blown away i thought it was very holtish to be honest with you i felt like i was watch like i felt like it was uh like a cult to be on like again you have charlie kirk who just died three months ago which was insane like i don't think anyone would disagree with that statement

that's not controversial i'm not going to i'm not into la la land yet go ahead and then you have like right next there like right next in his own event you have a tent that's literally a mausoleum set up to commemorate where the guy was shot like are you trying to like I got PTSD just from seeing that and like everyone's there taking I'm like I'm sorry what hold that thought what do you say about that on me I mean it's certainly you know what I'm talking about yes it certainly has become being there it's much less a political organization now and a conference and much more of a Christian organization not necessarily about that Charlie's strategy ultimately in the long run I can tell you was not to create

Republicans, but to create people who would go back to church and fix their lives and get married and have kids and get jobs. And they wouldn't be susceptible to a lot of this anti-Semitism and scapegoating and things like that. But it certainly has leaned much more that way as a Christian Kyra of, as we say. Did you know him? Christians. A little bit. Yeah. Okay. Hamer, is anybody else waiting to call us? Okay. We're going to have to let you go, but I hope you'll call it. Well, here. Go ahead. Real quick, can I just end with this just real quick. Please. Um, no, I, I would appreciate it if you can bring on Professor Avishlame or Ilan Papayan. I think that would be beneficial.

Yeah, I think we have reached out to them. We have reached out to them in the past. He's had Aaron Mate and Finkelstein. No, but we definitely reached out to Avishlaim. And, uh, I think Elon, sorry, one last thing. I promise one last thing. I don't know if you saw, because I know you're interested in this. Yeah.

Megan Kelly hosted Aaron Matte today. I, okay. I say, oh, not because you, but I just. It's only a matter of time before Finkelstein shows up. There we go. Listen, Aaron, Aaron and I are good. He's been on the show twice, and he's come to the club. I'm aware.

Yeah, yeah. The reason why, the reason why I'm interested in having you discuss with Professor Evie Shlain, especially him, is because obviously he's, just for those who don't know, if you just allow me to give a quick introduction. We have to take some other calls. I'm sorry. I'm quite interested, actually, in this, but I got to take some other calls. you want to circle back yeah maybe circle back or if not you can email me and I'll I'll answer you an email

okay what's your what you drop your email owner no owner at comedy seller.com owner at comedy seller.com yeah okay we have a next call Ari you for calling next call Ari yeah you're acting like on the on the what I'm doing in terms of the racism thing

is I think when there's a lot of real racists out there who are getting mainstreamed I just don't think the problem is Dinesh D'Souza's tweet. I think it's the real racists that are out there peddling and they mean it with every ounce of their bone

doing it. We don't have to dwell on Dinesh's tweet and whether you think it reduces credibility on the matter or things like that and we can compare it to all these things. I know what you're saying.

You lack like you have a double standard. You're selective. You only care about it when it happens to you. No, you shift the over to the window. Okay, who do we got on the phone? The point is, I'm on the same page is that that's exactly what's happening on the right. Ari?

Yeah. First off, thank you for taking my call and I'm really a big fan of both of your podcast. Are you, you're a Jewish person? I am, yes. Liz, I said, I said non-Jews. All right, all right. Okay, all right.

Are you releasing anti-Zionist? He's a Frankist. Are you a least an anti-Zionist, Jew, please? No, no. I used to be religious, so maybe, you know, it's from Teaneck, it's like a half-hast. He's from Teaneck, for sure. Listen to his voice. He's from Tehran. He's from Toronto, Canada.

Oh, that comes to part of my question later on. Okay. I think when your whole conversation really boils down to, it seems, is that, that Noam, you just want people to have a clear thinking where you could really drill down from just to hear their argument like someone like Sam Harris. If you really push and push and push, they'll be able to defend their ideas based on a chain of thinking that makes sense to anybody who's coming at it, even if they disagree with them.

And I think that this is, you know, we've, the general population just seems to be suckered into these people, whether they're good looking or they have some charisma or whatever the case may be in. Quite honestly, it's petrifying to see it. Let me just finish my question and I'll mute myself. But to me, I'm in Canada and I'm very nervous. I want to

start a family and I don't see a future for myself here based on the levels of anti-Semitism of school shootings that happened right down the plot for me. You see it in New York with the election of Mandani and it just seems that like maybe I'm getting blackpilled

but it just seems like everyone's kind of stupid. Yeah, well, I shunna-hapah. Yeah, it is, it is a frightening time. It's probably, it's probably a family. And I don't see a future for myself here. All right. Based on, Ari. Ari.

All right. Well, shootings that happen. Can you hear me? Repeated. It's repeating. You see it in New York with you. Oh, okay. Okay, Ari, can you hear me?

It just doesn't matter. All right. So, um, so, um, so things would probably be okay. Don't panic. Definitely, you should have a, family. I should have said before, I meant to make the point, but then, you know, Ami was talking. We, and I think Ami and I, and Dan, too, not Perry-Ole, because she's-

All right, can you hear me? Yeah, just doesn't matter. Okay, quite. So, one second, that, back in the first Trump presidency, what got us most going, what got us most going was the hypocrisy of the left. They would call this out and then do it themselves. They would call that out and do it themselves. This was, nothing animates me more than seeing a hypocrite. I hate them. And this is what's so dangerous. I see that the flip side, the hypocrisy now is on my side. And I, and I, it's stunning to me that, that people don't

realize how this comes across to the people on the other side. All right, Ari, we're going to take the next call. Good luck in Canada. Next. Aaron? Aaron. You there? I thought you wanted non-Jews.

Aaron? Yeah. You're not Aaron M. Mate, are you? Aaron M. Hulk. Jew. Okay, go ahead. What's you?

Go ahead. What's the topic? Okay, next. Next. call, next call. Wait, wait, wait, I was just kidding. I was just kidding. Okay, go ahead. It's the comedy cellar. This is a comedy podcast, right? You got to move it along. Not really.

Come on. So, are you going to ever let Ray DeVito pass at the cellar? How did I know? How did I know? Is it a Joe DeVito? No, there's a lot of DeVito. There's Ray

DeVito, Joe DeVito, and there's another DeVito, Anthony DeVito. Danny. We got to get rid of that delay, Steve. Okay, next call, next call, next call. This is fun. Michael?

There's a lot of Ray DeVito, Joe DeVito. You see, we're getting that delay, you hear it? Michael. It's probably the live feed coming back in. Yeah, the live feed is feeding back into the headphones. Caller has to, yeah. Okay, next call, next call, next call. Stephen, I'm getting the live feed back in my cans.

Okay. Next, who's there? Is my mic working? You're my mic's working. The live feet is feeding back into my headphones. Oh, hang on. Michael, turn your speakers down or put headphones on. Okay.

Next, who's there? Turn it way down. Yeah. Is that working? There we go. Yeah. Yeah, cool. Hello.

Hi. I'm calling from Australia. Oh, okay. I was just going to ask, similar to the last caller, although maybe not that serious, but I've noticed it's just hard to have fun these days. Every gig you go to, the bands are doing a whole pre-Chalestine rant and preaching to you. So, yeah, how do you still have fun going to these sorts of events? Ah, I can see them. How does it still have fun going to what?

going to like gigs and to arts um you know and galleries and things like that because it's all super preachy and it's all free Palestine and it's all these sorts of things I never went to museums when there wasn't a political reason not to go it's the most boring thing I could I can imagine but uh I think I don't think things are so bad right

if anything it's this guy wearing a shirt no no I just woke up he's Australian uh I think uh the way I see it is there's actually kind of both fringes. There's the, you know, the woke left stuff. And you also have, you know, in post-Trump 2024, the burst of the woke left bubble. And there's a lot of say whatever you want, culture and do whatever you want. And, you know, not as much of the mob kind of protest vibe that are happening. If you're just on Twitter doom scrolling, it can give you a warped sense that things are constant and happening all the time. But like anything, in real

life, there's concerns, but it's not all the time constant. You're getting a select filtered feed of the hysteria. And so I'm not saying it's getting closer and closer to reality, which is troublesome, but for the most part, you still go out, have a good time and people want to laugh. I think there's a silent majority of people who are normal, decent people who still kind of share the same values in culture. And they exist. They're just not as focused as these activist minorities that are making a lot of noise. So I'm kind of cautiously optimistic about that but it doesn't take a lot to turn the culture you know yeah i got off social media for that reason but i feel like it's in real life now all right well all right michael thank you for calling

uh i don't know if you're i don't know the geography in australia i don't know if you're near it's pretty calm and relaxed it near this uh book you might be interested in it's about the first jews in australia ah jew are you are you near we got moose next call but were you near the bondi beach uh thing no i'm on the other side of the country other side okay well thank you I'll visit your comedy club last year, though. Next, if you come again, please say hello. Thank you very much, Michael. And wear a shirt when you come to the cell.

Next call. It was an interesting book. I didn't catch the title, but. It was convicts and, you know, there was a penal column. Ogie. Or OG? OG. Ogie.

Ogie. Ogie. And you're from where? I'm from Australia as well. I actually called in last week. He said that I might have some hormonal issues. because my name was a female name. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

I don't think we're pronounced it probably less. No. My question is, do you think that Ben Shapiro himself has any culpability when it comes to creating Candace Owens in the first place? We didn't create her, but he certainly gave her a massive platform, fed her a lot of attention. And I think he probably put up.

with a lot of the conspiracy theorists kind of thinking for a long time that she had on his own platform and then turned on her in the way that you criticized Josh Hammer for doing with Dinesh D'Souza and others. This message has been transcribed. You want to mute that? You want to take that on me? Sure. Ben Shapiro admitted from the stage at Turning Point, when you hire bad people, you need to be

responsible for that. I have some experience with that. I have some experience with that matter. and he took accountability and fired her. Now he couldn't fire her single-handedly, unilaterally. People think it's like that, you know, because he's the face of the company, but when you run a huge operation

and it's a whole thing, a lot of people sort of fell for the grift. He could have fired. He could have had her far, but go ahead, go ahead. No, no, no, there was a lot of, look, I think he wanted to fire her well before he was able to, put it that way. But a lot of people fell for the grift. If you look at everyone in the conservative media space,

it's not like she held these views the whole time and they just built her up anyway because it was some opportunity. Coleman spotted it years ago. I saw an interview with him maybe 2018, 19, or 17, early, where he's like, hey, she may agree with me on certain things.

And I spotted it too very early when I was starting to see her sort of signal that she was a conservative firebrand but just using that as a way to kind of build an audience and capture an audience. But a lot of people, you know, fell for that,

but ultimately I think she's responsible for her own behavior and her conduct and they responded accordingly, eventually. The question with Ben would have to be whether he knew or should have known that she was, you know, for lack of better word, dangerous or that she was...

And I never... Of the many ways that Coleman and I see the world the same way, both of us were like, this Candace almost... Yeah, she's saying a lot of things we agree with, but she's a lightweight. Yeah, but ultimately I think she's the one responsible and needs to be held to account and criticized for it. And a lot of people took responsibility.

But I will fault Ben Shapiro. God bless him he finally did was Appomattox where's the first shots of Civil War Fort Sumter Fort Sumter

He did fire the shots at Fort Sumter but he took his sweet time saying what he needed to say about these people Well you have to remember in Candace's case

in particular it becomes complicated when you sign NDAs and you're said we're not going to Not just Candice The whole woke right Okay next call

are you kidding me he went after him from the Tucker went after him first saying he had to a loyalty I think Ben's been When he went on Megan Kelly I mean I mean I listen May I shouldn't judge he gave He built up to it He was still like talking reasonably with Megan

Like if I had been on Megan Kelly I said Megan do you really believe He said that to her face Because she has a young child at home That leads you to defend To deny the Holocaust or believe in blood Like you really you really want to make that connection, but he wasn't ready to...

It's not about ready. She had him on the stage on her tour to make the case. He made the case to her. She had the opportunity, I think, to make the right call, and she used, I think, pretty poor judgment. Who do you actually fault here for any of this? Anybody? What are you talking about? Anyway, next call. Candice, Tucker. Ogey had some final

words, but I guess he's going on. Candice, Tucker, Fuentes. Everybody I've criticized. And then Megan now, I think, is displaying cowardice. She's not pedaling anti-Semitic conspiracy, but she can't stand up in the face of it. Especially post-Charlie Kirk. Forget Israel and the Jews and everything. I want to take another call.

Candice's Tucker post-Charlie Kirk is enough for everyone to get off the train. I think they're realizing it like, oh my God, we've screwed up by throwing down. I've criticized all these people. He's on the line. We don't have a name.

It's just a number. Who is it? Hello. Hello. What's your name? Hello. My name is Tim Schwartz. Schwartz.

Okay, go ahead. I'm calling you from Portland, Oregon. Okay. Another friend. I want to say, I'm generally aligned with you more than Ami. I think that you're right

to pursue and really hold people to account for, you know, conspiratorial type thinking. And, you know, with DeSuzza, I mean, it kind of pains me right now because I think he was insane with the 2000 mules and all of that kind of stuff. On the other hand, I'm thankful to him for calling out people like Candace Owens. And it's kind of a delicate balance, you know, but I just think I really appreciate you, you know, it doesn't make sense for us as.

Jews, to let people off the hook when they're engaging in conspiratorial thinking, because ultimately, anti-Semitism, at least the main, a main part of it is a conspiratorial political story. And we can't let people off the hook for conspiratorial thinking in general, because we're going to require that sort of analysis to sort of dissuade people from anti-Semitism and from sort of Zionists controlling the world, et cetera, et cetera. I agree with you. I have no tolerance for these people who engage in half-truths

and conspiracies and tweet stuff out that they don't know is real. Like this, the entire corruption and pollution of what ought to be a rigorous intellectual environment. But the conspiracy theories,

I just fucking hate them. Okay, thank you for calling, sir. One more thing, though, I think, Ami, I know you like this DeSuzza guy. and I but on the other hand on the other hand it doesn't do you any good to not hold him to account for the conspiratorial thinking

does engage in and that's even though it's on quote your side I think it you know you're you're letting them off the hook too easy well look I didn't see a thousand euros I asked him straight up on my podcast what makes him distinct from all these other people and he made his case I don't think he's the enemy remember no one likes a fetch even when you're right if you want to actually influence people and persuade people

there's a tactics versus substance thing happening here. And sometimes no one likes a kvetch. So you have to really be careful when you let it out. Next, for the non-Jews in our control room, Kvetch means like a complainer and a whiner. I'll tell you that. Even if you're right. Even if everybody's bad.

A lot of the non-Jews know that. They use it. It's like Hasbara. It's one of their favorite words. No one likes a kvetch. She's have to be careful. Anybody else? Tali?

Polly? Polly? Holly? Holly? Tolly. I'm deaf. I can't. Tali.

I'm deaf. I can't. Tali. Okay. My Tali? Tali from Hawaii? You're blind, apparently, morally. Tali?

We lost Tali. No, I think I can read your lips that you're asking me to speak, but I can't hear you guys. We can hear you now. I can only hear the stream, so I'm not up to date, so give me a minute to try to get the sound to come out of Zoom. We can hear you, Talley. Could you hear us?

Oh, Talley. It's like a Zoom call with the Federation. Tali, Tali, you know, Tali has the bagel shop in, is it Honolulu? No, I don't know. Yeah, she was on our show. Oh, right, right, right. Great bagels. Hawaii.

Tali, we might have to put, you have somebody else besides Tally there? Yeah. As far? Put Tally on hold. Oh, she's back. I got it. Sorry, I think the sound was coming through my microphone. Okay, Tully.

Okay. Yeah, make it quick, Tali. What's going on? Hi, you're the Tali, my Tali, right? Yeah, of course. You're tall. Okay, go ahead, Talley. Go ahead.

What kind of calls is it? Tali from all the only fans. My Talley, right? That's owned by APEC, by the way. No, I'm a big fan of the show. I've spoken with you all once. Noam and I keep in contact. And Ami, I'm a fan of yours too.

And I've actually spoken to Noam about you and your stance because I feel like I fall somewhere in between the two of you. I want to make a quick comment as to what Hamid said about that it somehow you lose the more. morality or the holiness of your argument if you make a, if you, right, sure, if you're, if you're telling people that, you know, at least consider how this will affect you personally. But I think that's just an unrealistic way to view things. I think for me, the, what made me kind of leave leftism and realize what was so bad shit crazy about my side was when it came for me. And I have shame about

that and I realize it had to generalize out. Like, you know, the left is not only, the reason that the left hates me is because they see me as a white person as the pinnacle of white people and they see white people as evil. And so actually it's not okay just to try to protect Jews. I need to cancel out the anti-whiteness that is pervasive. And so I do think for a lot of people, it needs to hit them personally for them to realize the extent of the problem. So appealing to people in that way, maybe it's not as pure, but I think it's certainly practical in a realistic way to approach these things. And I do, I'm with Ami that there are a lot of people who fall in between the evil and either the people who are being suckers and who are being cowards.

I maybe have less patience for some of those people. You know, I think Megan Kelly is off the reservation. But, you know, Noam, you saw that more clearly than a lot of people earlier. And I think the problem here is then we do start to play the guilt by association game. And again, Noam, you and I had this conversation. It's like, well, okay, so how much culpability does Ben Shapiro have? You know, how much culpability now do people who are still publicly facing friends with Megan Kelly have, right? When do the fifth column boys need to say, you know,

we're not going on her show anymore? Is that the right approach? I don't think there are simple answers here, but I, but I do, I lean towards Noam, even reluctantly in that we, we do need to start. Yeah, exactly. We do, we need to be less tolerant of this conspiracy stuff. I mean, it really, it's really toxic. It is leading, we have a, and it's not, and it's not. It's not, I don't know where to exactly place the blame. There's blame on both sides, on all sides here. But we have an epistemology problem. And people, if everyone is willing to believe the craziest shit

and the normal, smart people go along with it to get along, I do think we're going to be in a worse place off for that. So I don't know. I don't have any answers here. Put it in a plug for your bagel shop. If you come to Hawaii, you can come get Talley's bagels. Tali's bagels. And pizza.

Talley's bagels. I agree with that, actually. I don't disagree. That was very good splitting that splitting hairs there, Tali, calling it right down the middle. Sorry, we missed you last time you were in town. Okay, next call.

You know, Tali is, she's a lesbian. Yeah, of course I knew who she is. She's terrific. Okay, next. Eshwar. Eshler? Yeah, can you guys? Yeah, Eshwar.

Can you guys hear me? Yeah, we can hear you. Hello, sir. Oh, awesome. Thank you so much. Well, thanks for having me. I've been listening, Nome, to your podcast for quite some time. Where are you from? With a lot of what you say, I find the rigor in which

you engage and the detail to be really enjoyable and fascinating and challenges my own views. But I will say this. The reason Candace Owens and the reason I think why it's becoming an issue now is because of who she's targeting. And this is going to make you a little uncomfortable. Candice Owens could have said anything, and she did say anything about black people for the past between the years of Mike, like was it, Trayvon Martin to BLM, she was used as a way to, as a cudgel against black people in this country for over half a decade. She could say anything because she was black and conservatives. And here's reality.

Conservatives agreed with her, but they couldn't say it. They agreed with the idea that black people are X, Y. I'm using conservatives very broadly and like, please accept that I'm being a bit general here. It's okay. It's okay. They appreciated and used the fact that she could say these things, right? And now when it turns against the group, when they say, actually, no, Jewish people aren't like that. Right. You're Jewish. And you're saying, no, I'm not like that. That's exactly what black people were saying for five, six years. no, we're not like that. How can you say these sorts of things? When Dadesh D'Souza gets upset about, I'm also of Indian descent, right?

When they come for him now and he says, hold on, guys, that's not me. Right, now that it's you, it makes you a little more uncomfortable. I think that's partially when you allow that to fester against one group, you should never be surprised that's going to come and turn against yourself. So, I mean, it's, I would blame the right, a little for allowing themselves to, you know, get into that with particular groups and not understand that. No, of course it's going to turn on eventually, right? It's never not.

Okay. Can I handle it first and you can take it? So I agree with a lot of what you said. As for Candace Owens, who I was never a fan of, I do think she was hired as kind of the token, like let me get a black person on here who will say the things I can't possibly say about black politics that she can't be called a racist. However, I don't think she was into bat-shit crazy lunatic,

asylum claims about black people, she was trafficking in the very generic right-wing arguments. And some of them, you know, were loose with their facts. But, you know, some of them, some of them I actually agreed with for principled reasons. Although, like I said, I always thought she was a lightweight. But now she's talking about literally insane stuff about children being kidnapped and being, you know. So they're not the same. And yes, you're actually making. the point that I made to Josh Hammer last week, which is, yes, by and large, conservatives did look the other way at all kinds of conspiratorial accusations and theories. And, you know, I'll just say that if Candace Owens were saying similar things about black people, I do not think the conservatives

would have been furious with her. They probably would have got along with it. And I shuddered to think how people like Josh Shapiro. would have reacted, I mean, not sure, Josh, Josh Hammer would have reacted because of how I see him reacting now. So by and large, I would say there is 82.7% agreement between you and you and me on this. Ami?

I would say that you're drawing a mostly a false equivalency. The only thing that was similar was maybe her temperament in style. It was when it was against, say, black people, people when she was going after BLM, and she was the black conservative kind of criticizing her own, and you could say, oh, conservatives were okay with that. You know, she was combative and abrasive and all of those things, but the ideas like no one was saying that she was talking about were the same ideas of economists like Thomas Seoul, a lot of conservative thinkers. She did not say in those days that there was a secret black occult of people controlling the world. And if she was saying those

things, conservatives would have condemned her and never hired her first place. I don't know if they would have condemned her. They're not condemning her now when she says it about the Jews. Of course. Candice is welcome in mainstream conservative circles. What are you talking about? She wasn't at Turning Point. She wasn't at Charlie's funeral, public, or private. Megan Kelly, this is going back to our fucking first point.

Megan Kelly is losing. Let me finish my point. No, no, no, I got stuff over there. This is, this is, because you keep missing this. No, she's. The mainstream conservatives. Who? J.D. Vance.

Okay. And Megan Kelly, until such time as they are ready to say what you've just said, You need to read them loud and clear. Let me just finish my point. My point was if she was saying those things about any group at any time Jews or blacks or Asians or anybody and characterizing them the way she's characterizing Jews now, no one would have gotten behind it. She was making a lot of economic arguments back then.

I don't know if she fully understood those economic arguments. I think they were largely recycled so that she could broadcast that she's a conservative. But like you said, Noam, she was basically talking about in a stylistic way, in her style, a lot of mainstream conservative ideas and principles. Right now, just because the target is the Jews, the type of thinking, the type of, I don't, she didn't say, we should lower taxes. I don't know, no, but I know, no, you know?

She wasn't saying that crap back then. She was, she was recycling a lot of mainstream conservative thoughts and principles. What I will say is, she is on the outs in mainstream conservative circles. She is persona non grata in turning point. She's trying to destroy turning point itself. Except, what I'm saying is there are people making excuse of her or turning a blind eye, like Megan Kelly,

their solo actors here, and they're called out for their cowardice, rightfully so. Your glasses always half full. I'm saying that the guy that everybody, I don't know what the polymarket shows, but the most likely person to be nominated for the Republican presidential nomination, which I would have to define as the mainstream conservative candidate, not mainstream vis-à-vis-vis national review, is afraid to criticize her or her cohorts.

Cowardous ignorance and naivete. Whatever it is. Yes. But they're not endorsing her. Oh, my God. Okay, next call. They're not endorsing her. It's a difference.

Megan is. Who's next? Fred. Fred. Hello? Fred Stoller. Not Fred Sore the comedian. Can you hear me?

Yes. Fred Stoller or the comedian actor? No, this is a different, Fred Stoller. Oh, okay. Next. No, no, go ahead. What's up, Fred? that happens all the time

I'm sure Has Gino Bisconti ever been passed at your club? Yes, wasn't he? I don't think so He was emce in for a while Was he? Okay, okay next

Johnny I like this taking calls That's fun Johnny Got to get the kinks out Sometimes they get a cold feet I also think that they have to ask a question A lot of them like to make statements

Yeah They've been pretty smart, though. Yeah, they're good. It's elevated, for the most part. Okay. We're trying, Johnny, one more time. Johnny. Wait, trying to wake them up.

While we wait, are we smoozing or waiting? Bababoi, baba boy. That's the end of the list. Oh, that's the end? I want to say something. Can I say something? Sure. If you know that you're infected with HIV,

and you're going around. and fucking people without a condom, you are knowingly spreading something that is dangerous. What your intention is is not really

relevant, right? I mean... Well, HIV in terms of immediate danger to the person infected with it is a very cut and clear thing than engaging in an interview with somebody. There's a little bit of a difference between an infectious disease that will kill the

patient. And you're saying maybe the way to treat HIV is to engage with it and debunk it. No, no, no. I'm saying that anti-Semitism will destroy this country. It will destroy the right. Can I add to your thing? It will destroy the right for sure. And yes,

the question is how to deal with it. And there are people who are misdiagnosing how to deal with it. There are people who are cowards in the face of calling it out. There are people who are confronting it and calling it out. And I think we just can't confuse the two. We can't confuse the treatment with the cause. We can't confuse the people peddling it

with the people failing to treat it properly. If you do that, you lose all discernment and no one can take you seriously. Do you remember what my like the catchphrase was like a year and a half that I would go into this rant about all this stuff? Do you remember what it was? I don't especially remember.

I kept saying, it's not going to stop itself. Do remember you saying that? You said that anti-Semitism on the right? All this conspiratorial stuff. I said it's not going to stop itself. and it's... Well, you said that anti-Semitism on the right

is emboldens. Yeah. And that's the best time I'm talking about, I'm just saying, can I give you an example of... I kept saying, it's not going to stop itself. It's not going to stop itself. And here we are where it's really a wildfire.

And yet, the people I argued with at the time are still saying I wasn't right. And this is the frustration. I was saying it's going to spread. We need to get to work on this stuff. We need to call it out. It's not going to stop itself. And here we are. It's spread beyond what I even thought was possible. And I'll have the conversation like, do you admit I was right now? No. No, I don't, I don't, right about what? I don't see what you were right about.

Okay, your wildfire is better than my AIDS. It's true. No, no, really. That's a really good way. Yes. So it's almost like it doesn't matter why. You just have to put out the fires, right? The point was that everybody was trying to be optimistic that it wasn't going to happen. They couldn't see it. Oh, I think the counterpunch is coming now.

It may just be at a timing that you weren't comfortable with. In other words, that the counterpunch to calling it out and drawing lines is exactly what Ben Shapiro did at turning point to everyone. And he didn't make it about Jews. He didn't make it about Israel. He didn't make it about him. He made it about them. And nobody even suspected it was.

He said he made it about. them. He made it about the audience that's being lied to and manipulated. And that was brilliant and that was correct because this is about the West. This is about the values that Charlie stood for. Western civilization and all of you are being lied to and you're about to be manipulated and lied to by people on the stage. Now what I will say is to give concrete examples of this. Some, I forgot who named it, named Tucker Carlson, anti-Semite of the year. So one could say, hey, we need to call it out and do it. Do we think that that's a smart strategy to name him anti-Semite of the year? Is that giving Tucker exactly what he wants? Because

all Tucker has to do is get on stage at turning point and say, anti-Semitism is wrong, period, which is what he said. Now, it's not that Tucker himself we can categorize as an anti-Semite, but as someone who emboldens and glazes over anti-Semites who come and confront him. That's the criticism of Tucker Carlson. He's not Nick Fuentes, but he's actually emboldening Nick Fuentes. If you call Mamdani a Nazi or an anti-Semite, right, that's a false way to describe him because what he does is he supports groups that hate,

Jews. All he has to do is walk into any reform synagogue with a bunch of rabbis and say, I don't hate Jews at all. And then people don't take the term seriously. Nick Fuentes, anti-Semite. He is proudly an anti-Semite. I'm just using the right identifiers here for the different areas of treatment. No, Tucker Carlson is an anti-Semite.

He's talking about usury and, I mean, if you look at his body's court. Okay, okay. It's a case to be made, but just remember how easily that categorization can be manipulated by someone like him who says, and all racism is wrong, period. And we're judging behavior and not motive and not what's going on in somebody's heart. I don't care what's going on in somebody's heart, like you're saying. My point is, I'm giving examples of

how to discern between these types of categorizations, so we can actually fight it. I think it's good to drive him to the point of saying, all racism is wrong, everybody. And then people on Twitter will just cut out all his greatest hits of videos, and they'll expose him for the hippocides. Exposed him for being disingenuous and a liar and being nefarious. But you just have to be careful. No one will believe you about Nick Fuentes if you use the term at everybody imprecisely. What I'm saying is eventually the wolf arise. If you cry wolf too much in the wrong with lack of discernment and lack of precision, when the real enemies arrive at the gates, we won't know who's who and how to fight it properly.

That's what Coleman said, right? Eventually the wolf arrives. I mean, I say it over and over. I don't think anybody actually would believe me. I was fully activated against Tucker Carlson before he ever set his sights on Israel. I was furious for them about the alien stuff and about the Alex Jones and about the COVID nonsense. he was pedaling out, like the bio-weapons labs in Ukraine. This goes back to when he was on Fox.

He was saying that the Mueller investigation really wasn't about Trump. It was about John Podesta's brother. I mean, he was just nonstop nonsense out of this guy's mouth. Election denial. You think there's something unique about the Jew stuff and the Israel stuff, though, the obsession? January 6th was actually an op. Like, he was peddling this nonsense, right? But when it's all steered in one direction for a long time,

don't you think there's something a little unique about that conversation over the last two years? That it's crazy that this obsession with Israel and the Jews has just taken over like a brain rot? Yes, but what was crazy to me is that when he was saying with very, very flimsy evidence that January 6th was an inside operation,

Fox News was running this shit on their streaming network. Okay. I get it. I get it. It feels like the conversation around anti-Semitism and I'm biased obviously as a Jew, the obsession, the sixth, the singular obsession in the culture

dominating just feels like a kind of a unique thing whether that matters or not I don't know it just feels like a unique issue all the president's men I don't think so now with Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman

it's about you know Woodward and Burntz and Watergate yeah and it shows all the hoops that the editor is it Ben Bradley of the Washington Post

forced them to go through before he would allow them to publish the first story that Nixon might have been corrupt right had to have the standards yes

Very, very high standards. Can you imagine any standards now for anything? Yeah, but you can also attribute all of the distrust in mainstream media to the years and years of dishonesty on the left and the group think on the left and left wing media outlets that you're leaving out of your condemnation and saying it's Tucker, it's Fox. I'm like, what about all these other organizations

that had believed one thing depicted things in one way? And now no one trusts anybody. Because I have to say, although nobody criticized the left more than I did, the right has taken it to a new category. of not just like really sloppy bias. There's plenty of left-wing conspiracy. You don't read equivalent stuff

in the New York Times. We are seeing Russia hoax, the way they slammed anyone for having questions about COVID origins as consp- Like the way they depict everything they disagree with as conspiracy. You're not reading Alex Jones

is a supernatural profit level or chemtrails. You're not reading this stuff in the New York Times. As bad as the New York Times got, It's different. It's worse. It's worse because it's depicted as it's seemingly mainstream, even if they're just as dishonest. And Megan Kelly is the key thing to fall because she actually always did represent. She was biased. She was right wing. She was a New York Times level biased conservative journalist who you could rely upon to basically be grounded. She wasn't going to say something that was actually not true or whatever, but she might leave out. She wasn't perfect. She wasn't perfect. She was responsible in her way. And now she is covering.

What's worse, though? Let me add, yeah. This is worse. What's worse? A guy who says, I'm kind of retarded. Or an entire mainstream media apparatus that buys into certain narratives that hides it from you. I would vote for Gavin Newsom over JD Vance in a heartbeat. Oh, my God.

That's kind of ridiculous. I guess that's where we agree to disagree. I don't know what. The fact that you would think that it's such an obvious decision. I mean. Yes, I cannot vote for somebody. Gavin Nossum is a pathological liar. I mean, you show me as opposed to Trump.

yeah as opposed to he's an honest liar Trump tells you what he feels Gavin Newsom tells you what he thinks you want to feel the politicians all lie it's a pox on all their houses but then you're agreeing with me this is what I always say

you're a nasty guy nasty guy know I'm a nasty all all administrations get reduced to four or five bullet points on a middle school social studies exam how much lying the politician told

as much as this distasteful this really doesn't matter to history. What matters is policies and their effect on the culture. That's what people like Trump. J.D. Vance cannot be trusted with leadership of the Western world.

Period. In my opinion. Gavin Newsom may have some economic policies I don't agree with. And California into the ground. I don't think California was thriving before Newsom's had an affair with his campaign staff for ran California grounds and takes no responsibility for it.

I don't know. I don't know your level up on civics. I lived in California for 10 years. The president is not going to, yes, he can do some damage. He's not going to, but if this country turns towards abandonment of our allies. Oh, yeah, yeah. Clowns to the left to me, joker to the right. Isolationism and catering the inability to separate itself from mental illness level assertions.

No, we can't have that as a president. We just can't. liars and deceitful people on the left can give you the chain reaction on the right. You get both. You get both if you are willing to lower your standards for a Gavin Newsom. Did you see the...

Well, I mean, you know, it's funny, I don't see how you can support Trump and support J.D. Vance. If you support Trump because you like his foreign policy, his assertive foreign policy, when he took... He's got bulls. Steps against the Houthis, right?

Houthis, hostages, Israel, I mean, on those... We know from the signal chat that was leaked, Vance was 180 degrees against it So if you get Vance's president You're going to have the opposite To the foreign policy That you think you like with Trump

You know who'll be a good president You know who's the closest Living politician to Trump In my opinion Hillary Clinton My God, no You're gonna do this I think as far as policies go

Yeah because you're like a center left Democrat No I'm not saying boy support I'm saying that who, what major... Even with the body count? What major politician is closer to Donald Trump's views right now? You think there's a Republican that's closer to Trump's views on foreign policy? Marker Rubio? Markerubo, yes, yes.

And he's a hair's breath away from Hillary Clinton. I think it remains to be seen the verdict on J.D. Vance. I think there's a... First of all, we're three years away from an election election. What Republican is closer to Trump on Israel than Hillary Clinton is? Rubio's good on Israel. you think he's closer than Hillary? Yeah.

He hasn't been outspoken like Hillary's been. He's been good. And he's the senator from... And Vance is playing such a neutral posture as the vice president, and he's making mistakes, I think, and not properly showing leadership against some of the stuff and calling it purity testing. I was critical of that speech for that reason.

And I spoke out saying, like, I think you're misdiagnosing the problem. He's not saying Nick isn't so bad. He's saying he's not such a... He's not representative of you. He's trying to separate the wheat from the chaff and saying, I represent you. I come from...

Where are you on Ukraine? Where am I on Ukraine? I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject. Would you be okay with, like, just cutting off all AIDS to Ukraine and let Russia just gobble it up? Not necessarily, no. No, you wouldn't. Not necessarily. I'm not a hawk, but again, that's above my...

Who's more likely to do that? What? Vance or Newsome? I don't know. I'm not going to... That's not the hell I'm going to die on the policy of my list of things. Well, what policy do you think you agree with Vance on as opposed to Hillary? Well, here's the problem.

Vance is actually not traditionally conservative. conservative enough for me on taxes, on things like that. He's more of a populace. So I have my other kind of issues on policy. I don't think he's nefarious. I don't think he's a bad man. And he's not going to throw in with the white nationalists. He has an Indian wife, and they call him a race mixer.

He's not with them. He just is trying to say they're not significant. He's worse. He's worse. Yes, because what kind of, he's a cuck? What kind of man lets this guy call his wife a jeet? He condemned Nick Fuentes. He needed to get up at, at, was he at Amfest?

He had to get up at Amfest. and say, in non-certain terms, ladies and gentlemen, we can have nothing to do with them. Period. Full stop. If any of you think the usual, please open the doors,

let you leave now. This man called my wife a jeet and called me a race mixer. That would have made the entire speech about him and not them. It needs to be done. I'm just telling you what goes on in the mindset of some of these people.

I have an answer for everything. I do. It's a good answer. I think there's a story where... It's called critical thinking. I think there's a story where people like to see men stand up for their wives. Let me tell you something. Even Will Smith, there were a lot of people who were... You support the slap, no.

No, I don't support that, but I recognize a lot of women were like, woo-hoo-hoo. But you support JD Van slapping Nick Frontie. We got to go. Harry Truman, I think I have a story. His daughter was an opera singer, and she got a bad review from some newspaper, and he called up the reviewer and let him have it and the country was cheered. When you call the vice president's wife

an ugly name for her race, the country is going to be on your side if you get out there and defend her. They're not going to say you made it all about you. You don't understand people. You could go too far with it. That I don't, you say? No, if you think that he would have come apart bad

by saying, care you. We don't stand for that in America. You do not call my wife a jeet. I mean, obviously can write it out to be perfectly safe. I think to the white disenfranchised Christian in the audience, J.D. Vance's message, what he was trying to do, and I think he was mistaken for not drawing those

clear lines. He's a cuck. I think he's trying to say, these people are not your guys. I'm your guy. I can represent you. It's okay to be white. Like, those kind of messages that he was trying to say is, we are going past that woke left stuff, and he's lost in a different battle, and he's not paying close enough attention to what's happening online.

and what's happening in their culture. There was literally nothing that could happen in the news. Yeah. That you are not ingenious enough to read. I'm very good. I'm just drawing a distinction. He has commented on how he feels about these people. He's not saying Fuentes is chill.

He's not chumming up to them the way Dave Smith and all these other people. He said Alex Jones is right about a lot of things. You know, Alex Jones. I'm critical of J.D. Vance. I'm with you. But I'm also, I draw a distinction between him and Fentes and Myron Gaines and these people. I think he's mistaken. I think it's-

You draw the distinction. How about letting him draw the decision? I think he's making a strategic error not properly drawing those lines. Absolutely. He thinks his strategy is, no, no, no, I'll be inclusive, I'll make everybody feel represented.

I think that's a mistake. That's a losing battle. That's the criticism. If you want to have a unified conservative side, then you have to get rid of the agents of division. Call them out, confront them by name. That's what Ben did. That's what I support.

I think he's a piece of shit. All right, good. I really do. There's very few politicians I found so distasteful. Do you think it would be good to him to have? Jewish advocates in his ear who could shed light on this for him?

Do you think it would be helpful? Or do you think knowing how most Jewish advocates are? Not them. Ideally. Anthony Jusselnick, do you know the Jusselnick joke? He has a joke. He says my mother, you know, my mother, she was a Holocaust denier. She didn't

believe the Holocaust. So I said, Mom, said, all right, God, what am I going to do? So I brought a rabbi in to explain it to her, and now she can't believe it happened only once. Do you think people who are maybe... Or something like that? If people are misguided on an issue, it may be beneficial to have people in their ear

who could persuade them as opposed to calling them but people's shit out the gate. I think that if you've risen to the level of vice president of the United States of America, you should already be clear on these issues. The reason he is is because of Tucker Carlson, which makes him morally compromised and hard to call him out because Tucker got him the gig.

That's what makes it hard. Really? Yeah. That's... Tucker got him the gig, so he has to... He is not qualified. qualified to be president if he can't if he can't we got three years to find out but but you know i forgot the whole tucker carlson how could you think about voting from this guy when you know he's close president tucker's the humon that's what i think he's the haman and whispering in his ear right but

you still vote for him oh i don't know it's three years away i have to see where the landscape is at this point but at this point i'm yeah i don't feel good in either direction but gavin newsome holy shit gavin we've lived we've survived gavin newsome type presidency's my entire life this guy doesn't fall. We'll be okay. I thought Rahm Emanuel was supposed to run. I don't think he has any chance. It said he wasn't. I don't know. I'm hoping it's... Beware of the do-gooders who show

up with a smile on their face, just lying to your face and gaslighting you. Okay. Are we done here? Any, Amy, anything else do you want to say? I really like have you on the show. The calls is really fun. Fun, fun. I had a good time. I think this was good. I think this was good. I knew what I was getting into here. We're ready

to spar. I'm schvitzing a little bit. Good sparring match. And thanks for having me on. Dan, you like taking the calls? I have nothing to do with this podcast. But you can take the call. How many calls for Dan? If you have a guest that you think I'd be good to have on the show, let me know.

But you like taking the calls? No. Not in a situation. I mean, I'm the intro guy. Do you like taking the calls? I have served no purpose here. I think the calls need to get. I think they need to ask a question, right?

To just hear these people pontificate is not that interesting. Like, I think let them ask something. They should hear me pontificate. I like the calls, actually. I thought they were all pretty smart callers. I actually did. That's fine. They can write those comments on YouTube.

Like, let them ask a question. I'm still on the air? I think we should do a call-in show and Dan should host it. I'll just do the intro. Let's see that next week. I'll do the intro. Well, if it's a topic that I would be good hosting. Obviously, I'm not good at this kind of.

stuff. We'll get some. No, you have to like, yeah. You have the guy on to discuss, uh, they need to ask something. They can't just sit there and say what they think. We can't discuss AI. Rosalind says, AI as more, or as my sister calls it, Al. You didn't know it's a lowercase eye.

That's a boomer mistake. Jesse Brown is next. What's with this Al? Who is Jesse Brown? Well, I'll, I'll, he's in the calendar, I'll tell you. You don't, you don't have a I do. Okay. Okay. Ladies gentlemen. Farewell, Dan Natterman.

Bye. It's okay. It's a pleasure. I like to have a year. Look, I like having him here too. We'll get, we'll get nice. We'll get Liz next week. Okay. Thank you. Bye. Bye. I like the calls, Dan.