The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Conspiracy Theorists (anti-Semitic and otherwise), Censoring Jokes, Tucker, Alex Jones, Kennedy...

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

Our guest didn't show, so we discussed a few things on our minds.

This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of the world-famous comedy seller, coming at you wherever you get your podcasts. Also available on YouTube, also available on demand at Sirius. We no longer have a regular time spot. We are available on demand. Dan Natterman here with Noam Dorman, the owner of the comedy seller. Periel Ashenbrand is here. We are running a skeleton crew tonight. We don't have a guest. We're supposed to have somebody from Australia, but... I'm tweeting at him right now. He ghosted you, I guess.

He ghosted us, but... Drew Pavlou. Yeah, that's disappointing. Maybe he's going to show up. Maybe he's going to show up. I'm tweeting at him right now. I mean, he was very enthusiastic about joining us, so... Maybe he watched one of our shows.

No, that doesn't even make sense. My general feeling is that when we don't have a guest, is that we should just pack it in. Unless we have some interesting comedy seller business to discuss. Nobody cares about the comedy seller business. I think people do care about the comedy seller business. First of all, it's so creepy to say that. Because a comedy seller business, just let me finish

my thought. It is a business. Let him mansplain. Go ahead. The comedy seller business isn't just a comedy business, which it's a business, and people, I think, find the inner workings of a business interesting, and especially a nightclub type business. No, I don't think they do. Look at our Twitter

views. Well, but you're going by views. You know, the reason some of our episodes get huge amounts of views is because the guest brings in huge numbers if we have a guest with a big, big following. Anyway, of course, we have good shows with

guests, but you know, Dan, our podcast has made an impact. I go to events now, and I know this Dan, our podcast has made an impact. Like I go to events now and I know this sounds like I'm just saying this, this is what happens. People are like, oh, I listened to your podcast. My friends told me to listen to your podcast. I was at a one function recently and somebody said to me, ah, I can tell people I sat next to somebody famous. I'm like, wow. I said, I'm not famous, but like from, from the point of view of the person, like in a certain community, our podcast is influential.

But there was a time when we were sort of, are we talking about comedy? Are we talking about the business? Are we talking about politics? And then it became... Well, I want to talk about... I mean, I always want to talk about things that are interesting to me. Well, you should talk about those things. Well, what things might those be?

No, it's not comedy. I would just like to say that Noam looked very handsome in his suit. He got an award, a very prestigious award. I'm here to present this to Noam. Noam really puts his money where his mouth is, by which I mean his business, literally, because every couple of years, a self-appointed moral auditor comes by

and tries to see if they can intimidate the comedy seller into falling to line with whatever their worldview is. And instead of capitulating or equivocating or apologizing, Noam invites them to be on his podcast and discuss it. And if they're a comedian, he lets them perform at the club. Because he really believes in the power of discussion and the examination of ideas and the sanctity of conversation. He has an almost idealistic innocence in the belief of the mutual search for truth through discourse. He's very civilized for these times especially. He never resorts to insult or threats even though that's basically what comedy is, but he stands by his convictions. Noam understands that comedians can't be held to the same standards as elected

officials or will be reduced to only puns and dad jokes. And speaking of dads, I know his father would be proud of this moment because he was very much the same way and a little more hot-tempered but neither father nor son would allow themselves or their employees to be bullied so I'm proud to present the NCAC Entertainment Award to my friend Noam Dwarman. I wanted to come in tonight and cause some trouble because I'm worried about the free speech landscape. I wanted to talk about how the marketplace of ideas is kind of not working out so well

sometimes and how sunlight is not turning out to be that best disinfectant that we always assumed it would be. I was going to mention how I'm worried about polls that show Americans under 30 are about as likely to trust information on social media as they are to trust national newspapers and organizations. That Holocaust deniers like Dan Bilzerian and Jake Shields have millions of followers. I was going to say that at times I worry I sound like a stubborn Second Amendment defender refusing to grapple with school shootings and that our enemies might use all of this against us as a successful argument to implement censorship such as we're seeing in the UK today.

But I scrapped that speech. I decided instead that since I'm receiving the Free Speech Defender in Entertainment Award, I should treat you, at least as long as you can tolerate it, to a few excerpts from real customer complaint emails. This is the bloody reality on the front lines of the fight. Buy jokes low and sell them high. And your customers are complaining about the quality of your product, i.e. the jokes.

It seems... I hear what you're saying. On the other hand, are they out of bounds for saying, look, I don't like the quality of your product. And by the way, your hummus isn't great either. I didn't say that. The hummus is great, by the way. The hummus is very good. I just had a. It's true that.

Better than the jokes. But, yeah, is that a free speech issue or is that I'm a customer, your product is jokes, and the quality of your product, in my opinion, is lacking? How is that? You know, I mean, there's a fine line. What's the question? The question is, is this a free speech issue or is this just an issue of a customer complaining about the quality of a product, your product being a comedy?

Yes, it's a free speech issue because people are not actually saying the jokes were not funny. I mean, they don't think they're funny. What they're saying is they're criticizing that we allowed somebody to make jokes about certain subjects. That's the thrust of most of the emails that I read. So that's why I think it's a free speech issue.

It's like they, like if I sit in a room and I hear everybody laughing about something, and I'm the odd man out because it's kind of, you know, Israel's the butt of the joke. But I recognize that everybody found it funny. If I complain to the owner about it, obviously it's not really plausible that I can't understand that people found it funny. What I'm saying is that I don't like the subject matter.

So that becomes a free speech. But yeah, there is a yin and yang to it. No, I do see your point, but I also there is a slightly nuanced, you know, topic. Because they obviously, they would say, well, I just don't think jokes about that topic are funny. But you're right, if a comic went up and bombed with jokes about airlines, they wouldn't have written in the joke for bad. Yeah, you could tell.

You know, because the subject wasn't offensive to them. Anytime somebody says, as three of those emails said, I felt unsafe. Oh, my God. Now, you're not dealing with somebody who didn't think the joke was funny. They weren't criticizing, like, that was a swing and a miss. That wasn't funny. Like, I felt unsafe, meaning the subject matter. Now, that being said.

Go ahead, Perri. said oh go ahead you you asked me um if i remember that somebody you you told about a joke that or that a customer rather had written in because she had a terrible date and she you ruined her chance of getting pregnant did you ever find that one oh i forgot about that one i should i damn that would have been such a good one to have read i told you what it was though that somebody had written you this long letter i remember it i remember that they were like on doing ivf or something and they were trying to have fun that night and somebody came up and told i read it on the show yeah yeah well i don't remember who the comic was now i can't believe i didn't remember to read that letter fuck well you asked me the

same day a A woman wrote, email rather, she complained about the joke. It put her in a bad mood. And because of that bad mood, I wasn't able to have sex. And thanks very much because it might've been my last fertile period because I'm this close to menopause. And what do you remember?

What, what the subject of the joke was that she, uh, was offended by her? No, but it doesn't really matter. I could find it. I do want to make another corollary comment.

Oh, my God. Now you just... I'm so upset that I didn't include that. Oh, my God. Of course it's my fault. Oh, God. How could I not have read that letter? Most speech that's controversial isn't particularly valuable.

And I think that's often the case with comedy. I think that a lot of, some of the jokes that people complain about, let's be clear, are not revealing profound truths that need to be heard, pushing boundaries. There is a difference between a joke that is thought-provoking or at least presents things in a different way that has value and jokes that are offensive but offer very little. I'm not sure because I think that

when you're quote-unquote offended by a joke, you're not really employing critical thinking as to why was I offended by that. But if you do a joke about black people always being late and someone's offended, and it might well be a funny joke, but is that a joke that is adding to the public discourse that is saying things? No, but I don't think that's the point. I don't think that we're out here defending people's right to add to the public discourse.

I think that you have to take a hardline position for your either... Well, Noam has a very hardline position. He censors a lot of comics that aren't funny and refuses to put them on his stage. That's censorship. That's to your business point, though.

He's running a business. The business is funny, right? So he doesn't care what you say. As long as it's funny. You can make a joke about anything. Or as long as it's funny and doesn't offend people such that they're not coming back to the club. Well, but no, because I...

Because if enough people sent letters about a joke about Malaysian Airlines, at some point, Norm would have to say, we can't do Malaysian Airlines jokes here. I mean, look what happened with Louis, right? Like, that was, there was a lot at stake, and he did not cave in. What were you talking about? The Me Too or a joke that he told? The whole Me Too. Well, I was just going to bring up one of Louis' jokes to illustrate a point.

The Parkside joke well it's he says you know you you know how how how badly affected you were by by the world trade center by how soon after you masturbated and for me it was between when the first one tarwin on the second harrowing and that joke to me is do you like it's a good very good joke why is it a very good joke. Why is it a very good joke? Because it's funny. I can't analyze it. But you just answered the question. Because it's funny.

Well, yes, I think it's funny, and most people think it's funny, but the point I want to make is that not just that it's funny, but that it sort of illustrates something real about the human condition, about how we really are just... Maybe I'm reading too much into this and giving it too much credit. No, I don't think you are. Ultimately, it reveals we really just care about our fucking selves at the end of the day and things that affect us directly. Okay, that's great. But wait a second. So if you know somebody and it's like, well, I found that joke very offensive because I

know somebody or, you know, a family member was killed in September 11th. I find that joke very offensive. So, so I mean, if you have a room full of those people, that changes how funny that joke is, right? Yes, but that's not the point I'm making. I just, let's keep things in perspective and not hail these people as these great free speech heroes just because they said something controversial. Now, a separate point is, is Noam is a businessman.

At some point, if there's enough people that are offended by a joke, he would have to make a call. What's this, uh, La Scalera? What's that? La Sprite de la Scalier? La Sprite de la Scalier, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

The spirit of... The stairs, but it's not a literal translation. When you think of something that you should have said on your way out, like, now, to think that I didn't bring think that I didn't read that letter at that moment. Oh, my God. Once in a lifetime opportunity to use that material in front of an audience. Well, you blew it. It's crushing.

Oh, my God. Literally, I'm feeling like you could measure my galvanic skin response now. I'm upset about it, Dan. Let me be upset. Okay, well, I'm trying to convince you to not be so upset. But I just don't understand. I spoke to you that day. Okay, let's get on to something interesting.

Well, what do you think? You're the arbiter of what's interesting, and everybody else's opinion about what's interesting is of less weight, what do you think is interesting or disgusting? Anything that's not about me. So why don't you... Well, but you must have something to talk about. So no. Well, you know what?

Speaking of your crusade against conspiracy theorists. Yes. You hate, as you recently tweeted, conspiracy theorists. These people believe in good faith, nutty theories. Are they bad people? And why do you hate them? Why do you use the word hate rather than just disagree with them? And, yeah, so why do you hate them?

Why does it rise to that level? Well, what do you think about them? Oftentimes, yeah, I feel, depending on the particular conspiracy theory, I feel a certain anger toward them, yes. How come? Well, I don't know that it's logical, but I guess, you know, because they're spectacularly wrong and it's dangerous. It's dangerous, that's right. But is that to say that they are people of bad faith and of... Well, some of them are.

Some of them are mentally ill. Some of them are very sloppy. Some of them might have... Their research might have led them to conclude these conspiracy theories. Does it matter? Well, it matters in terms of whether you hate them or whether you just merely disagree with them

strongly. Well, I don't know. When I said I hate conspiracy theorists, I'm not sure I meant that I hate those people personally. I hate the... I hate what they are. Which is, you know, which is different. I hate what they are, which is different.

I hate what they are and how they degrade and endanger self-government. And, of course, Jews have a special worry about conspiracy theorists because anti-Semitism, as they say, inflation is and is always a monetary phenomenon. Anti-Semitism is and is always a conspiracy theory phenomenon. And so people who are open to conspiracies have a very high concordance with anti-semitic views although we have these jewish versions of them like brett weinstein and um nobody else is coming to mind but there's they're out there so but it's not just about israel about the jews although it's amazing how tucker's newest thing now is that the reason America supports Ukraine is because we're serving Israel's interests. Ukraine, as you may have heard, is led by a man called Zelensky.

Now, you see him on television. It's true you might form a different impression, sweaty and rat-like, a comedian turned oligarch, a persecutor of Christians. Russians. Russia is disliked by a lot of people in Washington because of the perception that they are detrimental to our interests in the Middle East and especially to Israel's interest in the Middle East. So you think that's the prime mover here? Yeah, the Russians operate in Syria. They protect Assad in Syria. And as a result, they end up being antagonistic to Israel, which ends up being defined as U.S. interests as well. There's no separation between the two countries. But strictly speaking, this has kind of nothing to do with us whatsoever. I mean, I don't... I honestly... Unless you see Israel as a part of the United States.

You know, I'm not hostile toward Israel, but I think it's a separate country. So even support for Ukraine now gets attached and hung around the neck of the Jews. But I was worried about this during COVID. And I'm worried about this with RFK. I think most of us do believe that COVID came from Wuhan, from the Wuhan lab.

It's quite different than thinking it was engineered as a biological weapon to target everybody but Ashkenazi Jews and the Chinese. We have put hundreds of millions of dollars into ethnically targeted microbes. COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese. And recently

I spoke to some very, people I would have thought would be very, very grounded, one person in particular, very, very grounded, serious person. I was like, well, maybe it was. I'm like, well, it's just like riding out our ability to think clearly. You know this thing now that Joe Rogan, they say, I'm sorry, that Alex Jones predicted 9-11?

No. You heard this? No. Tucker Carlson says he's a prophet. He predicted 9-11 in great detail. He predicted 9-11. Well, and he's also um channeling some stuff there's you can't call 9-11 in detail because you're super informed before the fact he called it how'd that happen right how did he do that no he's channeling something that's super yeah of course yeah there's like no

other i mean tell me how he did it otherwise i've asked him about it how did you do that at lengthy at dinner in my barn recently we're talking about this how'd you do that i don't know it just came to me and that's real that is real the supernatural is real there are people called prophets and there are people who were prophets who weren't called prophets but there are people who have information or parts of information, bits of information, visions of information come to them and then they relay it. It's not from them. They received it. You know, Alex, I know Alex personally, so I know what he was going through. And, you know, everybody wants to talk about mental health

and they want to praise people for being honest about their mental health issues and support them on their mental health journey to wellness. Alex has gone through some real issues and one of the reasons why he's gone through some issues is because that guy is uncovering real shit that's terrifying every fucking day. When you see so many lies and so much propaganda and so many psyops that are being done on people. You start seeing them where they don't exist. And that's what he did. So I finally uncovered there is like a little edited version of Alex Jones which makes it sound like he predicted 9-11.

But if you actually go to the original show, he did not predict 9-11. And by the way, in the same show, he made like 50 other predictions, which didn't come true. And his only mention of the World Trade Center, he was worried about bin Laden, but we were all worried about bin Laden at that time, in that period between the embassy bombings and the U.S. call, and when 9-11 finally happened, bin Laden was at the top of everybody's mind. But the only mention he has of the World Trade Center is the 93 bombing, the one that the blind sheik was behind, that failed to bring down the World Trade Center. Jones predicted 9-11. So, of course, this kind of rehabilitates Alex Jones in some way. So what else does Alex Jones say? Alex Jones says that

Israel was involved in killing John F. Kennedy. Really? And, by the way, just the fact, if anybody watches or is familiar, but there's a documentary about Alex Jones and what he did to these poor parents of these

children who were shot in Newtown. And how he claimed it was all an op and the kids weren't actually shot and that the video was distorted and people were attacking these parents on the street. I mean, I would really, if anybody's listening, anybody's out there,

please watch this documentary. I guess it's The People vs. Alex Jones or something like that. And understand how awful a man is still somehow being kept as part of polite company. And part of his ticket to maintain himself in polite company is this completely untrue narrative that he's been right

about A, B, C, D, and E. So, you know, we have to take the good with the bad with this guy. Yes, he did this horrible thing that they almost don't even talk about, and they certainly don't take a magnifying glass to it, but you have to understand

he uncovers so many important things. We would lose out. Where would we be without Alex Jones? We need that voice, right? This is like, we have to put up with it to get his great insight. It's all a fucking lie. It's all a fucking lie. And the biggest podcast in the world by this stuff.

And then Candace Owens, she says Israel is not actually a Jewish country. It's a country of Frankists who are Jewish impersonators. But really, just Israel was created to as a sanctuary for pedophiles. She says this. Israel was created as a sanctuary for pedophiles. By the way, Herzl, Theodor Herzl, came from a town in Moravia or something where the pedophiles got their start. Many moons ago,

before they decided to establish Israel as a country, I know you've read the short version in the classroom, and it was like, oh, the Holocaust happened, and then we realized that Israel needs to stay. No, that's not how it went down. That's not how it went down at the F all, okay? Catholics and Christians were going missing on Passover and then they would find bodies, okay, across Europe and they were able to trace them back to Jews. Blood libel, there weren't Jews, okay? These were Frankists. This Frankist cult, which is masquerading behind Jews, still participates in this shit to this day, okay?

Why would you want, as a small nation that is the size of New Jersey, okay, why would you want the pedophiles to flee there? Why would you want the pedophiles to be procreating? Hmm, unless, unless the nation of Israel may have been established by some Frankists. I mean, you can't get Dave Smith who I respect Dave Smith and on stuff. He says, you know, that's,

that's, you know, intellectually plausible. I, I, I don't call the full Mearsheimer-Smith on Ukraine, but I think there are interesting issues about to Monday morning

quarterback various American policies on Ukraine and how they might or might not have led to the conflict there. But, dude, you have to separate yourself from Candace Owens. It can't just be anybody who says anything. Well, apparently he doesn't have to separate himself from Candace Owens. Like, it can't just be anybody who says anything.

Well, apparently he doesn't have to separate himself from Candace Owens, from a career standpoint, anyway. Right. But this is all part of how a tolerance for conspiracy theorists is a cancer which just rots out. I mean, I don't want to overstate it but almost like civilizational intellectual western

foundations of of like we're moving backwards in time all ideas are worth worth keeping an open mind to but also we have to be able to dispense with ones which are obviously false, obviously dishonest,

obviously fucking crazy. And then also, while we do live in a world where we have, me included, bristled at things being dismissed as racist all the time. You can't say that's racist. You can't oppose affirmative action. That's racist. You can't criticize Israel.

That's anti-Semitism. You can't have questions about whether trans children should get gender-affirming care or should, when they're older, compete in professional sports because that means you hate trans people. We all have had it up to here with this kind of tarring of legitimate discourse. But we ought to be able to draw the line between that and what Candace Owens is saying. I mean, we can't pretend there's no such thing as actual rank, putrid, dangerous bigotry against blacks, Jews, gays, trans, all of them. We have to be able to draw those lines. And it does not follow from being able to make the argument that this is not bigotry and that's not bigotry. And I'm happy that I feel and we all feel less scared about making those arguments now because it was a time like when you remember when Believe All Women first came.

Now, Believe All Women, now you can kind of say that was always ridiculous. You don't believe all anybody, right? People were saying it even then. Right, right. No, but it was very risky. I was extremely cautious during the Kavanaugh time, during the Believe All Women time. It was always like threading a needle,

making sure that I wouldn't poke a hornet's nest. But anyway, so I'm happy that you can say that stuff now, but just because you can say that stuff, I don't remember what my point was, but... What percentage of women do you think we can believe? What I'm saying is that we still have to be able to draw lines, and the fact that um Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens and Alex Jones and I've said this stuff already too many times so this all

so yeah I I don't like this shit and by the way I think um through agitation of mine and also Richard Hanania and uh I think more people are actually alerting themselves to this problem, especially now that Trump is president and although I can't say he's never he's retweeted from time to time some

conspiratorial nonsense. Trump has? Yeah, like the Palestinians cheering 9-11 in Jersey or something. Or eating the cats and dogs, right? Or the birther. The birther. Yeah, actually the things I said, they're not really conspiracy theories.

The birther thing was a conspiracy theory. But he hasn't really – I don't really associate him with the deep, deep conspiratorial thinking like Tucker Carlson that the United States government is hiding this and the United States government is hiding that and we actually have all this information about UFOs. But the people around him, there's no question, there's a lot of people around Trump who are tolerant of this kind of stuff. I don't fucking like it, that's all. Well, what do you attribute the fact that Dave Smith is not coming out against Candace Owens? No, we're trying to get Dave on the show again, right? He's not going to do it, is he? I don't know. Has he responded to you? No, but sometimes it takes people a minute.

I'm sure he's a busy guy. How long has it been since... A few weeks, right? Have you followed up? No, I haven't. That a yes? Should I believe you? Believe all women?

I don't think he will do the show again Why? I don't think he had a good experience the last time And I don't know My gut tells me he won't do it again Also I think he's more important Than he was then I guess

But we get important people on the show. I messaged him about a week and a half ago. But I would like to question him on this stuff. I didn't like that he misstated, in my opinion, misstated what I had said to him the last time on the show about Nick Fuentes and those guys. Anyway, listen, I don't like it. These people have

millions and millions of followers and they sit one chair away from the current president of the United States. What do you think about Elon Musk and... He's a kook too yeah that that trump is surrounding himself with people like i mean he's out of his mind isn't he i i uh my jury's out on elon musk there's no question he's addicted to twitter and there's no question that he's um

in some way well the first one i say there's no question is addicted to Twitter. I think it's very likely, although I won't give it the no question category, that he has been getting high in his own supply. Like my father used to say, everybody thinks their own farts don't smell.

And I think that he's gotten enamored with himself in some way having said that I still am an Elon Musk on balance

I'm still pro Elon Musk I think he leans in the right direction on most things I think he leans in the right direction on most things. I think that his accomplishments, the Tesla that I drive, seeing that rocket shimmy and shake its way back exactly into that spot to be caught, Starlink, whatever else the guy has accomplished,

you cannot do those things if you are not making many, many, many correct decisions based on analysis. in the end, he's analyzing problems, and when he has to put his money where his mouth is, he's coming to the right decisions over and over and over and over again. That being said, we're not going to Mars. Despite his prediction. So I really can't bring myself to assume that he's crazy. You can't be that crazy to accomplish all those things.

I don't even know if one of those things could be luck, but I suppose you could be a crazy person who puts together a bunch of engineers, and they do it, and you take the credit for it once. No, the guy is not crazy. So we'll see how he goes. No, could I address... But Vivek, Vivek Ramaswamy

made some 9-11 truth or statements. Could I address changing topics? The comments on the show we did with Ann Coulter last week,

I make the mistake of reading the comments. I don't know if it's a mistake. I kind of enjoy it, I guess. We were just talking about this before you got here. Yeah, you know, oh, you and Omar? Yeah. of reading the comments. I don't know if it's a mistake. I kind of enjoy it, I guess. We were just talking about this before you got here. Yeah. Oh, you and Noam were? Yeah.

Yeah, the comments, you know, a lot of people watched the episode, and a lot of people commented, and the comments are often quite nasty. I have them pulled up. But at one point I wanted to address, Noam was talking about how his employees are great and they're better than native-born Americans in general. At least that's been his experience. And a lot of people commented, made the comment that, oh, Noam, sorry, your business can't survive without paying illegal immigrants slave wages.

They took from your statement that your employees are illegal and that you pay them slave wages. They sort of, they took from your statement that your employees are illegal and that you pay them slave wages. So I think it's worth clarifying that you never said you employ illegals and you never said you pay them slave wages. You simply made the point that your employees are foreign-born and that you find foreign-born employees, in your experience, to be superior to native-born employees. Yes, that's correct. So, okay, look, we're going to be perfectly honest here. There was a time in the 70s and 80s when immigration was not a hot topic, when picture IDs barely existed. Like when I was a kid in the 70s,

the drinking age was 18, and you had an ID that didn't even have a picture on it. You just showed up, and you could literally just scratch out the last digit in your year and decrease it by a few. So it was just quite a different time. And in those days and everything was cash.

And in those days, everybody hired illegals who didn't even know who was legal or who wasn't legal. And in those days, the concept of getting paid off the books was ubiquitous and it was the Wild West. I don't prefer those days at all, but that's, that's the way it was the Wild West. I don't prefer those days at all, but that's the way it was. Anyone who denies it is just lying. But that hasn't been the case for many, many years now. get fake papers somehow, fake social security numbers, whatever, and they present to the employer a package which is indistinguishable from an illegal person. And that's what I was referring to. And I had people who worked for me, they would use their cousin's name. Who the hell knows?

There's so many schemes that they use. And then over the years, they would tell me, listen, I have to admit, my name wasn't Ernesto. It was Pablo. And I got married now, and here are my new papers and whatever it is. So that's why I was referring. So people, they find a way to sanitize their status. Of course, we don't pay slave wages because there's a minimum wage. This is true.

You could say that some people years ago when things were off the book might have paid people below minimum wage, but we never did. As a matter of fact, I don't think we ever paid minimum wage. We might now because minimum wage is so high, but when it was lower, you couldn't pay anybody minimum wage. I just think it's interesting that out of all of these thousands of comments, that's what you... Well, because that was a recurring theme.

And a theme that I think, something that needs to be addressed. But that was a recurring theme, among other themes in the comments. Yeah, there are a few themes in all of these comments, right? There's a few themes. Yeah. That was one of them. There is a legitimate criticism that's contained in that comment, which is, well, who cares if the employees are better or worse, you know,

they're still Americans. And, um, yeah, I get that. I don't, it doesn't feel like, uh,

where we are putting Americans out of work. Does it? I mean, the unemployment rate is very, very low, at least, at least in this part of the country. And this is the problem with aggregate statistics for many issues.

So in New York, immigrants, legal or otherwise, they may actually be tremendously positive for the economy here. But in certain other places in the country, they might be wreaking havoc, both with the strain on resources and by lowering wages and maybe even putting people out of work. I don't know.

Why are you looking at me like that? No, I'm just reading these comments. They're really funny. Go ahead and read them. One person said, did she actually say to bring in taller and better looking

immigrants? Yes, she did. Yes, she did say that. That's the comment you wanted to read? That's one of them. I'm going through them. There were a lot of comments that my laugh is annoying. Yeah, Peril got absolutely just destroyed in the comments. Is that the first time you're hearing it?

I mean, you're somewhere between Kamala Harris and something else. You know what else I hear a lot? What? That people love my laugh and it brings joy. I didn't read that. Every time. Certainly not in the comments they weren't saying that. I get that a lot.

And, you know i feel like if you don't want to hear my laugh there's a fucking mute button but i do tell you when you laugh to back away from the mic somebody else said that other woman is so annoying yeah that was another common theme uh was aiel being annoying. Once the liberal men started talking, I had to tune out. I think that they're referring to Noam, because probably compared to Anne, Noam comes off quite liberal. Well, Shiraz definitely comes out liberal. All right, are we going to wrap this up? Our guest didn't come. No, not yet.

This is just an awful person. Who's that? They're referring to Anne, I guess. A trans person is a straight male. I have a grandson that thinks he is a lesbian. He told me he's a lesbian because he likes women. So now

he'll knock up some young woman. Listen, that's a whole trip. I'm just saying these comments like how really... Perrielle got raked over the coal because of one call or all the calls.

Among other things, Perrielle said that cis women, biological women, women, whatever you want to call them, are wrong to not want to share whatever you want to call them are wrong to uh not want to share intimate spaces with trans women yeah and um and i made the point on the podcast well why don't we listen to them if you want to try to convince them that it that that they shouldn't be fearful

of sharing intimate spaces with trans women you're free free to do so, but why are you dismissing what they have to say? You got shit for saying that, though, too. I didn't read any shit that I got for saying that, but I can't imagine that anybody could find any fault with my logic. They did. They said,

oh, now we should just be listening to cis white women. We should be listening to everybody. And everybody includes a biological woman that might be fearful or hesitant to share an intimate space with a trans woman. Right, and I'm going to repeat what I said, which is that 99% of the time she has nothing to worry about.

Trans women aren't there to do anything, I would say, by and large. And I said this before, too. Let's look at the evidence. Let's look at how many police reports have been filed. But maybe they're just uncomfortable. And maybe they just want to be in their own spaces. You know who else is uncomfortable? White people.

Black people sharing schools with them. Like you need to have a good reason to be uncomfortable. There needs to be like actual evidence for some reason why you, I mean, are you in danger? Why are you uncomfortable? You're not in danger, right? But most evidence points to the fact like that You're not in danger, right? But most evidence points to the fact that you're not in danger.

So I'm sorry. Well, what about a supervised co-ed locker room? You're not in any danger. It's supervised. If any guy tries anything, they're going to. Well, see, that's different because I think that there's plenty of evidence that most rapes are committed. Well, what?

And I'm not saying there's no rape. I'm saying there's going to, it's going to be supervised and any, any male that tries anything is going to be halted immediately. But the women would still be uncomfortable sharing intimate spaces with a man looking at them. I just don't think that's the same thing. I also just want to, I don't, I'm not trying to not have this conversation, but I just want to say in all fairness, somebody else did say Coulter is brilliant. The most brilliant political analyst there is. So I think that the comments sort of were all over the spectrum. Do your feelings get hurt like do you take them personally ever typically no unless they're right you know like well on a recent episode somebody said you know that i contributed nothing and indeed i had contributed nothing and so so you know which is often the case when when it becomes

very the conversation goes to places that i'm just not sufficiently informed and or interested and or have much yeah i really don't think you can take the comments that personally although if for constructive criticism i'm i'm happy to take that i did just move away from the mic when i laughed but um but anyway back to you back to your point are you still looking for that email? Yes, I'm looking for it. Okay, back to my point. Was it possibly a Google review?

Go ahead. Maybe Liz sent it to you or something. Maybe somebody forwarded to you. Go ahead. I will ask Liz. I think that you probably agree with me on that, right? I agree that there's...

You're a pretty analytical person. I want to listen to cis women when and if they don't want to share spaces with trans women. I want to listen to them first. So we listen to them. I want to listen to them. And you're saying that there's

a percentage of them that are saying X, right? I assume so. Okay. So what do you want to do with that once we've listened to them and we've gotten this information? Don't you think that the next logical thing is to look at

fact-based evidence? We would present these women with fact-based evidence and try to persuade them if we can. But at the end of the day, if they're uncomfortable... Then they should find another bathroom to use. Maybe. They should find another bathroom to use. If enough of them are uncomfortable,

and if their fears, you know, are not based, as best we can tell, on sheer bigotry and hatred, but rather on some legitimate misgivings about sharing spaces with biological males. Okay, but if there is no evidence that any trans woman has ever acted in a... Well, I don't... This is a question. I'm sure there's some that have at some point, somewhere. trans woman has ever acted in a... Well, I don't... This is a question. I'm sure there's some that have at some point, somewhere. Some, okay.

But I'm saying by and large. And the other thing that I said, which is true, is that trans women have been using the bathroom of the gender they identify as for decades. Noam brought up the point that maybe bathrooms aren't the best example. Locker rooms, perhaps, are a better example. Well, now we're talking about two different things

because bathrooms have... Yeah, okay, well, we can open up the conversation to locker rooms. But the same issues might apply. My main point is I'm not ready to dismiss and say say your feelings are wrong, your feelings are invalid. Neither am I. I'm just saying I just think most trans women are just trying to live their lives and get through the day. Yes, and most biological women are not hateful.

But, you know, we have to somehow reconcile, just as we do in sports. We have to reconcile competing interests, the interest of having a fair playing field and the interest of a trans woman that might not have any other options in terms of where she can compete. So we have competing interests and we have to somehow reconcile them

and maybe the solution is an imperfect one, ultimately. So, you know, as much as it's, I don't want to see trans women excluded from sports, we also have to listen to the non-trans women and weigh the evidence as to whether there is a biological advantage. So what's the perfect solution? Well, there is no perfect, that's the point. That's the point, there's the perfect solution? Well, there is no perfect solution. That's the point. That's the point. There's no perfect solution.

In a perfect world, what would be the best solution, the most fair solution to everyone involved? If you were in charge of the world? There cannot be a perfect solution given the situation. So there is no perfect solution given these given the situation so there is no perfect solution okay is is the answer to that question now look i'm not a big sport i don't give a shit anyway because i'm not a big sports person but i understand that there are people for whom sports are a big deal i could give a fuck whether you know who wins the gold medal in the swimming competition i have to tell you. I could give a fuck whether, you know, who wins the gold medal in the swimming competition.

I have to tell you... I don't give a good goddamn. I could not agree with you more. But I understand there's people for whom sports is a big fucking deal and women that worked hard and want those scholarships or want that gold medal.

And if there's a biological advantage that a trans woman might have in the race, I can certainly understand why she'd be upset. I agree. I really don't care. I can't tell you how low it is on the list of what I care about. Yes, Noam. very much towards a kind of universal acceptance of the idea that trans women should not be competing against cis women in competitive sports. Again, I'm just saying that like, I just don't, like, I really don't care. Like I, it's very low on my list. I mean, I don't even know if it makes it to my list. Can I tell you something that people like me,

like, just so you know, the bubble over our heads when people like you speak. The fact that you don't care is really not an argument for anything. It's a way of avoiding an argument. The fact that you say it only happens a little bit, like... Late-term abortion.

What do you think about nine-month abortions, Pariel? Well, it doesn't happen that often. Okay, that's not an argument. That's just a dodge. Nobody said it? Okay. Okay? It's not serious.

So, not... Well, nine-month abortion, is that the question? No, the question is, whatever question was that you said, well, I don't really care about that. Transgender in sports was the argument. Well, that's fair. I mean, I don't know that I'm saying it is an argument, but I think I've said a few times already what I think about that.

What do you think? I think that, I don't know. For kids, I think it's fine. I think everybody should be able to play together. I really do. I think that little kids who are trans should be able to play. Little kids who are trans? It's funny.

Like how old? Like little five-year-old trans kids? Are you implying that you can't be trans at five years old? Well, I think you probably can. You can. There's so few of them. It's funny. It's quick.

Did you find that email yet? No, I'm giving up. Maybe it's a Yelp or a Google review. I do have a... You might be right, though. It might have been... I have a spot around the corner at the VU. I do have a compulsive part of my personality with something like that.

I can't stop thinking about it. I perseverate. Is that the word? I guess so. Ruminate, I think, would be a better word. Ruminate? I think so. Have a good spot.

What does perseverate mean before we leave? Before we go, let's just get them to say ruminate and perseverate. Because I'm sure inquiring minds want to know ruminate versus perseverate according to chat GPT the terms ruminate and perseverate both involve repeated mental focus

but they differ significantly in their context and connotations here's the breakdown ruminate to deeply think or reflect on something, often repeatedly, it originates from the idea of cow chewing cud, symbolizing repetitive thought, commonly used in discussions of introspection, problem-solving,

or overthinking. Okay, I'm going to skip to perseverate. Perseverate is to persistently repeat an action, thought, or verbal expression, even when it's no longer appropriate or productive, often associated with neurological psychological conditions um so i think i was perseverating over and over and over i'm not ruminating about it at all dan you are you'll ruminate about your spots and why you're not gaining them but you are perseverating

that is true yeah okay um i would like to circle back to like maybe we can find this let's just wrap this up perry no but maybe we can find this for next show can we put the title the worst episode ever no okay go ahead it might be a good title i don't think this is the worst episode ever you think this is the worst episode ever no the worst episode ever? You think this is the worst episode ever? No, the worst episode ever was that tour guide. Oh my God. That was the most boring episode. He listens to this show. And also the worst part of that episode.

I'm sorry, I take it back. Was that he emailed me like seven times to like change the title and change the hashtags because he was doing. Can we take this out? I feel bad. No. Okay. Because he was very, very nice.

But the episode wasn't good. That's fine. I mean, constructive criticism. No, it wasn't a criticism of him. You know what we can talk about and if anybody's listening and you'd like to weigh in podcast at comedyseller.com would you like to see weekly clips from this show

and do you think that Noam should trust me as the final arbiter of what those clips should be or should he have to weigh in even though every time I send him a clip he ignores it you know

the bubble over my head is now I'm like I'm not half the man I'm like one eighth the man I used to be because there's no way I would allow a podcast like this to go on this reminds me of talking on the phone with a girl in high school

and he's kind of like meandering you still there? and you just kind of fall asleep like you just talk and talk it's idiotic that was this whole episode you think was? it's very teenager the whole episode

especially the parts where you and Dan spoke major, you know, it's like, yeah. The whole episode. Especially the parts where you and Dan spoke. But. You know, you know why Dan and I were talking? And the truth is. Because you were stuck inside your laptop trying to find this fucking email. And the truth is that, that, you know, I could talk more, but I just don't have that self-assurance that anybody wants to just hear me yap. I like having a guest.

Well, next time we'll have a guest. Yeah. Thank you for tuning in to this episode. I personally really enjoy hearing you yap. No, I didn't yap yet. You enjoy listening to yourself talk. That's why you like this episode. No, I didn't yap yet. You enjoy listening to yourself talk. That's why you like this episode. No, that's not true. I think that

if we're going to be fair to me, I rarely talk just to hear myself speak. That's true. That's true. Let the record show. I have a calendar that I keep of the times you were right. Adding up. It's adding up.

Yeah, I gotta find you. I did start that calendar. Okay. Thank you for listening. Thank you for tuning in, everybody. We want to know what happened to Drew Pavlo, though. That's pretty shitty.

Yeah, I agree. we have some exciting guests coming up yeah we do we have glenn greenwald is great do the podcast um scott horton's gonna do the podcast uh hope try to get dave smith again i really want him i'll write him again you know what it is though is like i like part a not insignificant part of my existence is just like trying to get you guests that you want you know that right that's your producer yeah well i mean yeah i'm a producer that's fine but you send me these people that I have to then like find in the universe and then I found one of them who you seem so excited about

I wasn't that excited about it but I can't come in on a Sunday just because it's your holiday weekend I can't do it first of all it's fine if you don't want to but stop saying you can't come in. I can't.

We have all our in-laws coming and staying at the house this weekend. They're going to be there on Sunday, too? I think so. Oh, please. You could come in if you really wanted to. Yes, you're right. Okay, thank you. That's all I'm saying.

What guest would it be for you to just be like, oh, yeah, I'll be there? If I was like elon musk is gonna come do the show you would come in on a sunday no would not not for elon musk no donald trump maybe maybe benny morris yes benjamin netanyahu all right goodbye everybody