The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Danny Goldberg & Colin Smith

Episode Date: December 2, 2016

Danny Goldberg - Fmr. manager for Nirvana, Neil Young, and more

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. My name is Noam Dwarman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. I'm here with Miss Kristen Gonzalez and the very, very funny Mr. Dan Natterman. We have a special guest tonight, one of the greatest musicians working in New York and the world, Mr. Colin Smith, one of my musical partners.

And we have a special guest, but I can't introduce him yet because the paperwork didn't arrive in time for the introduction. So go ahead. How was it, Dan? How was what? How was your week?

You want to bring us up to speed on your week? Well, I have a free-floating anxiety that often arrives this time of year. You know, I only gave Calabria 15 minutes warning that I needed this. Go ahead. That you needed what? Yeah, I just got it. Go ahead. But in addition to which, you know, just when I think that Trump, if everything is going to be okay,

he does something that puts me ill at ease again with this tweet about how he actually did win the popular vote. Except that there were millions of... Well, probably didn't. Illegal. Well, there doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest that there was any illegal voting, or certainly not millions. No. In other words, just when I think everything's going to be okay, he proves that he really is a mental case. Yeah.

You had to have thought that was a bad one, Noam, right? Yeah, I thought it was terrible. You guys don't give me enough credit. This is what I've told you guys all along was his problem. I never said it was, I said he's not Hitler, he's not this, he's not that, he's not going to round anybody up. He's just cool. He's a mental case. How many times did I say, the day after he wins the convention, I said he's not Hitler, he's not this, he's not that, he's not going to round anybody up. He's just Kukrow. He's a mental case. How many times did I say, the day after he wins the convention, what does he do?

He goes after Ted Cruz's father about killing Kennedy. That's exactly the same thing he's doing now. But when I would express to you my level of anxiety after the election, you seem perplexed. And yet you'll agree that the election of a mental case to our highest office is anxiety provoking. Noam gets annoyed by the direction of the hyperbole and the tone of it more than, I don't know. Well, it wasn't hyperbole. I think that he... Because I really was anxious.

I don't know how to explain his personality. I mean, it seems to me that he's been too many years as Donald Trump. Usually a businessman who gets to that point in life has learned when to keep his mouth shut, learned how to follow, you know, like Godfather,

business, not personal, when to keep your mouth shut and how to keep your eye on your own self-interest. He seems to have lost that to some extent. Maybe he never had it, I don't know.

Someone on CNN said obviously a Trump supporter said that he's just a master media manipulator and got on Twitter after the Trump university case was settled and to kind of deflect from that

he gets on and he says some outrageous things so that the media goes to that instead of focusing on the fact that what What was that tweet after the Trump University? It wasn't as bad as this one. This one looks... I mean, you don't... As which one? Because there is also today's tweet, which is...

That's not even that bad either. The flag-burning one is not that bad? Let's take it one at a time. The voter fraud one is the worst one in my estimation because it's indefensible. It's a lie. It's based on nothing. It's disinformation.

But if you look at it as a nine-year-old, somebody criticized his count. So he's going, like, that's really all it is. Oh, yeah, well, if you think that this recount is it, well, how about I'll recount your recount. I got all night. Do you think that maybe this has been a tactic that worked extraordinarily well for him as a nine-year-old and just never abandoned it? It totally could be right.

Until he was 29, 39. Now, the flag-burning one, which I'm not sure what was the impetus for that, how that came in, what he was responding to. Yeah, I don't know. I think protesters are burning the flag, maybe. But the idea that it should be illegal to burn the flag is very, very common. It was a 5-4 decision in the Supreme Court.

I think my father felt that way. Hillary Clinton had co-sponsored a bill that kind of made it either to burn the flag. Now he said we should take our citizens Right. That's the big one for me. And that is just what somebody says who has no knowledge of how the law works. There is no criminal

law, criminal penalty, maybe treason, I don't know. But I don't think so. It sounds like a guy that just read a fairy tale about a king doing such an action. It's outlandish. Listen, I don't want to defend him, but the way I... Listen, there's another thing about that tweet

as opposed to the... What was the other tweet? The voting. As opposed to the voting tweet. And the other one was the Hamilton thing, by the way. Oh, the Hamilton thing. Because this flag burning thing was not his ego being bruised or anything like that. He's seeing people burn the flag, I guess, and he doesn't like it. And it's like, well, what do you do when somebody burns the flag?

Well, I guess you take away their citizenship. It seems like punishment fits the crime. If you want to burn the flag, well, maybe you don't want to be an American. I mean, it's very base and dumb in a way, but like I said, there's some common sense there, and if you just think he has no idea how the law works

or the Constitution works, I don't know. I'm not forgiving you. You'd hope a president has a little information. You'd think he'd fucking check with somebody. Hey, I want to tweet something about what we should do when somebody burns a flag. What do you think of this? You think you just run it by somebody? Is this going to make me look stupid?

He hasn't done that to date. He hasn't run it by anybody. So why would he start now? I know. And he got elected. They're both ridiculous tweets, but the voting one is just. Well, as you said, a lot of people are against flag burning. It's not an uncommon belief.

It seems to me that that's precisely what the First Amendment was meant to protect, but a lot of people seem to be flag-burning, that is. Speaking of First Amendment and free speech, how did your Thanksgiving go? Was there a lot of free speech there? It was the worst Thanksgiving I've ever had. Go on. I was the only male person there. Really?

How the hell did that happen? Except for little Manny. And the jury's out on him. So just the two bathrooms. And there was I can't say it on the radio. It was just horrible.

And I couldn't talk about anything. Anything. There was no subject matter I could talk about. But how you don't even know like what women are allowed

in your house at this point. It could hardly have been more controversial than, let's say, last year's Thanksgiving with last year's guest list. With Peter Gunz? Doing the rap, you mean? That wasn't controversial. That was fun. Everybody loved that. Listen, my mother hates...

Oh, your mother was there. My mother hates everything American and everything Jewish. And she's both. But she's very well informed, but she's a crazy person. And then Juanita's sister-in-law's family is one of those people who says, if anybody, blah, blah, I'm defriending you for this, I'm defriending you for that, like on Facebook. brother, sister-in-law's family is one of those people who says, if anybody, blah, blah, I'm defriending you for this, I'm defriending you for that, like on Facebook. And both my wife's family and my wife's sister-in-law's family

get into these nasty family-wide Facebook fights in front of everybody, which is kind of, I can say ghetto, right, because they're white people. It's kind of ghetto. And the whole thing just gets ridiculous. And I had to just keep my mouth shut the whole time. I couldn't talk about anything I wanted to talk about. Oh, God. And, you know, I just wanted to just...

It didn't sound like you really had an audience to talk about. Trump! Trump! No, I didn't say Trump. That's all I needed was just to lob the Trump word into the middle of that Thanksgiving table, and it was going to be off. The chefs weren't hungover this year, though, right? The chefs weren't hungover? Who were the, right? The chefs weren't hung over?

Who were the chefs? I mean, just saying, who was cooking this year? Oh, Juanita. The food was great, except there was rosemary and turkey. Okay, what else? What else, Dan? Well, also... We've got to bring up this guy.

Colin Smith, as you mentioned, is a musician. Louis and Chris have approved the table in a new position, by the way. Thank Louis. Louis, and Chris Rock, I assume you mean. Yes, yes. Not Lou Witsky and Christy Stefan.

Yeah, Colin Smith, every Friday night we do music here at the Olive Tree Cafe. I don't know if we talked about it. It was really worrying me that the comedians

weren't happy with the new position of the table. I think everybody's happy now. Go ahead. All right. Well, for me, it's

six to one, half a dozen to the other. I think you put too much, overthink the table, but that's my opinion. But in any case, every Friday night we do music here at the Comedy Cellar, at the Olive Tree Cafe, which is upstairs from the Comedy Cellar. And so on Friday night, or actually it was Saturday night, because we did a special Saturday music edition this week. Yes.

I don't know if that's going to be every week now, Friday and Saturday. They have been more frequent. It's whenever Colin can't get a better gig. For our listeners who don't know, Noam is also not only the owner of the Comedy

Cellar, but a musician and that's his true love. More so than comedy, more so than pretty much anything. Much more than comedy, yeah. More so than pretty much

anything in life, he likes to sing and play his mandolin. Okay. But anyway, so Colin was playing this song the other day and I said to myself, hey, this has got

a good beat. This is pretty good. And I do what I often do when that happens. I go up to Colin and I say, who wrote that thing? And it turns out there was one of Colin Smith's originals. So I want to say hats off to Colin and his song Wilderness. That's a great song.

Thank you very much. I've sent you that song like three different times. You never fucking listened to it. I don't recall you sending it to me. I sent you Colin Smith's. It sounded different live. It touched him. Guys, my ego's in the balance here.

Yeah, it's a great tune. Wilderness, Colin Smith. And he gave me the CD, which I already had anyway at home. Oh, okay. So now I have two copies of the CD. Holding up the top of the table. That you never listened to. I never listened to it because I didn't know there was this great song on it.

All right. So Wilderness. And Dan doesn't give compliments easily, so that's. No. Well, I give them when they're merited. Yeah, I know. This is the best. Is this a Colin song or is this a Shackles song?

It's a Colin song. So the Shackles gets no piece of this? Shackles get no piece of it, no. Colin, what's coming on with Wilderness? Well, that was my first solo record, and that came out actually about six years ago. So it's retired. Has this song gotten any airplay on like series?

Actually, yes, it got airplay,, it was my first. Has your song gotten any airplay on like series? Actually, yes, it got airplay and it was featured in some, it was featured in a couple movies. It was featured in the Lincoln Lawyer

and like a British TV show and stuff like that. Oh, that's pretty cool. That's pretty good, Colin. Yeah. Lincoln Lawyer's a good movie.

It is a good movie. It doesn't feature strongly. It's on in the bar while they're having a chat, but still. I still get checks. Not many people can say. I still get checks

every quarter, six years later. Well, you guys. Like decent checks. I'm like, I always go, whoa, but still. Still? I still get checks. Not many people can say. I still get checks every quarter, six years later. Well, you guys. Like decent checks. I always go, whoa, for real? Still? Nice. I know you guys were trying to get on one of the late night talk shows.

Yeah, I don't know. That's Colin's portfolio. I don't know what's going on with that. He's supposed to be pursuing that. Well, if you do, I would urge you to sing Wilderness. That's not our song, Dan. I don't want to sing that stupid song. Dan's not interested in the shackles, is what he's trying to tell you.

What I'm trying to say is I think that's your best. You hit him with Wilderness, and then you sneak in a shackle song. I'm happy to do Wilderness. I don't know. Whatever works. Do you want to go on my pigtails now, Mom? Whatever works. Whatever works.

I think that's your best shot at a top 40 hit. Beatles sang a song from the Music Man on the Ed Sullivan Show. Whatever works. And then you also got me into this guy, Foy Vance. Oh, he's good, right? But I went home and I listened to that song,

The Coco. Yeah, Coco. I gotta say, I like Wilderness better. All right. Better than Coco. The opening chords of Coco is Into the Mystic.

Yeah, it's a similar vibe. Similar vibe, yeah. I'm just concerned that maybe this is not what people want to hear about. Are you crazy, Noam? People don't want to get to the bottom of Colin Smith's corn of machinations? You know how we can save this? What's that? I'll ask Lou to cut in a little bit of the song.

Well, I don't like your implication. There we go. How we can save this is implying that this is shit. Well, no. Or to... And again, my ego's at stake. Or to, so Colin can understand, shite. Now you're talking. Now, you know, I thought that with you droning on about. Flag burning.

Flag burning, maybe that one, but I didn't say anything. Let me say this. Let me just say this. You thought that me droning on about an issue that everybody in America is talking about was just going to be so dull to people, so let's talk about a song that no one's even ever heard of. And then when I suggest cutting that song into the thing. That's fine.

I don't mind you cutting the song in, by the way. That's a fine idea. Then they can understand what you're talking about. Fine. But we're not just talking about a random song. We're talking about a member of the comedy community. Okay. Poised for greatness.

With a song that no one didn't write. And is the song available on iTunes, et cetera? It is, yeah. Picture in world peace And a time when mercy Is on everyone's mind Cause this is the wilderness Where birds steal from others' nests

With no thought for its viciousness No comfort at all Yeah, this is the wilderness And I could have you killed I guess And make me like all the rest A slave to it all

We're talking about what goes on here at the Comedy Cellar. What goes on here every week at the Comedy Cellar is music. Music. Very good music. I think that that is... We had Chappelle sit in with us and play music. That's true. Chappelle plays music?

Chappelle, he rapped, Can I Kick It? Yes, he did. And he brought Stevie Wonder's harmonica player down who was fantastic. And he sat in with us. We have a lot of people sitting. And then Dave had me on his stage there a couple of weeks ago

while Dave broke out some Beethoven on the piano. He played Moonlight Sonata like really well. He's a musician. He plays that Thelonious Monk song. Was it after... Famous Monk song.

He's very good. Yeah. I went to SNL where Chappelle was hosting. That was pretty awesome. Did you like the experience of going? I don't like going to SNL. I find it to be extremely long.

You went to the live show or the dress rehearsal? Live. The live show. Why are you looking at me like that? Because you always got to try to think, maybe this is something not quite as good as what I said. Because you said you didn't like the experience. Had you gone to the live show,. No, because you said you didn't like the experience. Had you gone to the live show, it seems to me shocking that you wouldn't like that experience.

Because I find the live show to be absolutely fascinating. It is, but it's the waiting in line. Yeah, and the takes forever. What shuttle? I don't remember shuttle. Shuttling from one room to another. Yeah, shuffling from one line to another. Like the movie along within the corridors.

I assumed you were maybe getting VIP treatment. No. That's what they do to another. They move you along within the corridors. I assumed you were maybe getting VIP treatment. No. You've got to be a part of it. That's what they do to everybody. I find the SNL show so fascinating. Not the show. It's not necessarily,

but the way they do it live, the technical aspect of it I think is fascinating. They're running around and everything gets done live. And in a way, the dress is nearly more fascinating because it is a longer show

that involves more sketches that they haven't cut yet and stuff. And so that's... You see more stuff. Yeah, but the excitement because you know it's not going out live.

What did you think about Kate McKinnon's Hallelujah? Stupid. I mean, I enjoy it. I enjoy the song. It's a nice song. Who does it better,

do you think? I haven't heard Colin Smith's Hallelujah. I actually... I didn't get the whole political thing, which is probably why I didn't react negatively to it, because she was kind of dressed like Hillary, but the lyrics had nothing to do with Hillary. She was singing it pretty faithfully.

It was odd. Earnestly. And I loved the way she, like, you know, when we do it sometimes, let's not do it too slow, let's do it very straight. She did it exactly kind of the way I like, just like very, very straightforward, not like trying to it too slow. Let's do it very straight. She did it exactly kind of the way I like. Just like very, very straightforward. Not like trying to overdo it. Yeah, not stylized.

I was transported, if you will, at her version of the song and I liked it. That's quite nice. And then Chappelle's monologue was one of the classic SNL monologues, I think. Yeah, it was fantastic. And we had heard him down here the night before.

Four or five days. Did you hear my newest Trump stuff? Suckling into it. I hate to bring it all back to me. Do you, though? Well, I don't know. It's an open question. But I had some great new Trump jokes that I didn't debut.

What's the best one? Well, did you hear them the other night at the Underground? No. With the one about, you know, not my president? No, go ahead. Well, I don't like to do my act in this context. Well, you have to now.

Well, I say it's not my president, but he is. Do they also every month say not my visa bill? That's very good. And then I, well, there's more to it. Then I say,

not my blood test results. Hashtag never herpes. So anyway. All right, should we bring, should we bring a... Well, is he here? Yeah, he never herpes. So anyway. Should we bring... Well, is he here? Yeah, he's been here. Stephen! I didn't know he has been here. Let's bring him over. Can we have him listen to the... Is this an Atlantic Records guy or something?

Yeah, we could have him listen to The Wilderness. Can he listen to The Wilderness? Well, not now. That would have been a great idea, but I don't think we have... Well, Colin will have to sing an Acapulco. No, no, that don't... He wouldn't do that. I'll just look into his eyes, put him right here. That's where he's going. Right up close. Give him a cold.

Colin has the self-confidence to actually do that. Colin will look him right in the eye. There's no doubt it's a good tune. I don't think any record producer would poo-poo it. It's one of my best lyrics. It may not be right for a particular record label or a particular market. I don't know how you'd classify it.

It's certainly not, you know... The modern masterpiece, that's how you classify it. Daydreaming. Sing it now. Who are we waiting on? Here we are. Here we are. So, come sit down, sir.

Hi. Sit right here. I'm going to read your introduction that Stephen has provided me with, so if it's inaccurate or you don't find it flattering in some way, that would be Stephen. Leave it on Stephen. And Stephen, I'm not sure how to pronounce this. G-O-L-D-V-E. And I'm not sure how to pronounce this. G-O-L-D-V-E. Oh, did you type it wrong?

Yes. Oh, mother. You're fired. That's it. Get what you pay for. All right. Hit it now. Danny Goldberg is the president of, what's the name of your company? Gold Village.

Gold Village Entertainment. His clients have included Nirvana, Bonnie Raitt, Hole, the Beastie Boys, among many others. He's the author of Bumping Into Geniuses, My Life Inside the Rock and Roll Business. Welcome, Mr. Goldberg. How are you? Very well, thank you. Do you want to wear

the headphones? Those people were clients a long time ago. Those are not my current clients. Well, certainly Nirvana was not. Particularly Nirvana. That reminds me of my joke where I say to a girl, I had, because this is a comedy club, so we're comedians, so I have a joke where I say to a girl, Well, that's not the joke part.

This is a joke I did on Kona where I told a girl I was 34, and then a Nirvana song comes on, and I say, Oh, I saw these guys live back in college. I mean, kindergarten. Anyway, that's... Well, all right. So let's get right to it, because you probably know this, but musicians, I think of that list, I don't know, Colin,

Nirvana, Bonnie Raitt, Hole, the Beastie Boys, among others. Nirvana, to me, is like in a class by itself, himself, really. Me too. Talk on your mic. I want to get a little louder. I think I'm going to take off the headphones, though, if it's okay with you. Yeah, that's fine. It was a little overwhelming. Just as long as you're talking to the mic.

Okay. Hello, hello. Tell us, how did you first come across Nirvana? What's the story? Well, I had a management company at that time called Gold Mountain. I always put gold

in these companies because my name is Goldberg. And one of our clients was Sonic Youth. I was in my 40s, so I was a little old to understand that culture, but everybody told me I was not cool. I'm 66 now. Oh, so I was a little old to understand that culture, but everybody told me I was not cool.

I'm 66 now. Oh, you look great. Go ahead. Thank you. And so Sonic Youth was a client, and I was excited to get them because they were so well-respected in this new kind of alternative rock thing that you could just feel was happening. And then they told me about Nirvana.

Thurston Moore told me, look, I know you don't like new acts because new acts are usually unappealing to a manager because they don't pay you anything for the first year or two. If you're lucky, it's only a year or two. And I was always looking for people that already had a following. But he says, look, I know you don't like new acts, but we've had all these people opening to us and they're great. So I completely trusted him.

He was then as now a brilliant guy who listened to a lot of music. And they wanted us because Sonic Youth was with us. And I wanted them because Sonic Youth said they were good. So it was one meeting. In the first meeting, Chris Novoselic did almost all of the talking. Kurt was, I didn't really, and I hadn't done my homework, you know. They had this album called Bleach that was a big phenomenon in the punk world, and it had done well in fanzines, but I was not into any of that.

I was like a more hippie generation guy. But then at a certain point, Kurt chimed in with something, and I saw that everybody just agreed with him immediately, and I realized that he was the center of gravity. But it wasn't until I saw them live that I understood how lucky I was. And that was a few months later. Well, what did they play for you

that particularly hit you? Well, they didn't play anything when we met. I was supposed to. But when you saw them live. But when I saw them live, they opened to Dinosaur Jr. at the Palace in L.A. This is when they were recording Nevermind, but they hadn't put it out yet. And they wanted to play some of the new songs live to just get a feeling. You know, a lot of artists, before they record, like to play some of the stuff live

to just get some nuances to the arrangements. And, you know, I was just flabbergasted by the intimacy that Kurt created with the audience. It wasn't, I mean, one of the songs was In Bloom, and, you know, they spelled it like teen spirit. They played the songs, several of the songs, up being on uh on the nevermind album but it was more there was something just about his uh intensity and they were the opening act this was in la not seattle they didn't have that many people there that even knew who nirvana was at that time and uh you know

it was just that cliche where it seemed like he was individually connecting with everybody there as if it was an intimate setting like this. So I just, you know, remember driving home afterwards just so high from the experience because I was pretty jaded by then. I'd been in the business since I was 18

and was just trying to pay the bills. And I just knew there was something really magical, you know, about him. I had no idea that the record was going to explode and be this worldwide phenomenon. But I knew it was more than just a good rock band. I knew that there was something magical about him. He had this intimacy that he created with an audience that is really unusual. When you heard Teen Spirit the first time, do you remember where you were when you heard it? I can remember where I was. Me too, actually.

I can remember where I was. Is that the one that goes... No. Oh, that one. Okay, let's hear a little more of yours. Which is the one that goes... That's Tony Bennett, what you're singing. Which is the one that goes...

Which one is that? That's Come As You Are, I think. Come As You Are. Oh, Come As You Are. Yeah, good. Well, that's fine, too. This is a great moment

in the show so far. I can remember where I was the first time I heard Sgt. Pepper. Like, the first time I heard songs in the key. Like, certain... Not that many things that I I was the first time I heard Sgt. Pepper First time I heard songs in the key Not that many things that I've heard the first time I can vividly remember where And I was old already by the time

Nirvana came out Not in my youthful obsession with music anymore And I was just totally blown away I had never heard anything like that before I found it to be Very melodic too Which I think really was what made him special. Yeah, he was an incredible songwriter.

I mean, he loved punk culture and the whole fierce anger of punk and the rebelliousness of it and all that. But he also was a guy that listened to the Beatles a lot. He just couldn't help but write great melodies and real choruses, which is not typical of punk genre, but he had this other

God-given talent. But yeah, well, I heard it when they were doing it, so we knew it was a really good song. Never occurred to anybody, either at the label or at the management company

or to the band, that it was going to be like a pop song. We thought this was going to be kind of the setup song that would go to like uh alternative radio and then we thought that song that you were humming come as you are was a more um conventional type of a commercial song uh and this was the moment when the biggest rock band in america wass N' Roses. And I remember there was an agent that was Sonic Youth's agent, not Nirvana's agent, named Bob Lawton, who called. It had just come out, and he was at a Guns N' Roses show.

And they played Smells Like Teen Spirit. You know how they play music sometimes before a concert? And everybody cheered, and he called us. And we realized then, oh my goodness, if Guns N' Roses fans are responding to this new song, this is way bigger than we thought it was going to be. It's huge. You got anything, Colin? Colin's obsessed with this stuff. I'm a bit spellbound at the moment, so I'll take my time before I jump in. What are you spellbound about?

Well, I don't know. One of the first things that kind of hit me was you described yourself as kind of like hippie-ish with like hippie listening tendencies. Yeah. I remember the first time I heard it too. And I remember the severity of this. I had been into metal and like punk a little bit, you know, at that stage I was a teenager. And I just remember the severity of the sound of the record coming on at like eight o'clock in that chart show while i was doing the dishes before i did my homework in ireland in ireland yeah and i'm like going this is incredible that this is this is the affirmation of like a you know a sea change in in what's considered commercial music and so i guess two things yeah what do you think about that and a how was your transition to what was your listening habits to that?

Well, I got into the music business when I was 18. I dropped out of college and just glommed on to the idea that you could somehow get paid for hanging around rock and roll. In those days, you could. And originally, I used to write about rock and roll. What a scam. Go to a show and write your opinions. Well, first for Billboard and Record World, then used to write about rock and roll. What a scam. Go to a show and write your opinions. Well, first for Billboard

and Record World, then there were these rock bands, then Circus. Yeah, Circus Cream. A little bit of Rolling Stone. I didn't write much for Cream, but I was editor of Circus for a year

when I was 20. And anyway, by the time I'm 40, I'm just trying to make a living. My daughter's been born and I just had my first kid and I'm trying to just make it in the business. And I had long made a psychological transition, maybe you're the same way about

comedy, where I didn't really hear it the way I did when I was a kid. You know, I was hearing this through more on the business aspect of it. And the surprise was that it also got to me emotionally because there was something about Kurt's voice that just touched me. And the surprise was that it also got to me emotionally because there was something about Kurt's voice that just touched me. And then when I got to know him, I just... When you're working with an artist, it's completely different from being a fan of an artist. It's just a

totally different headspace. What was he like personally? Was he obviously a genius? Did he speak in riddles? He didn't speak in riddles. He was obviously a genius. He he speak in riddles? Did he... He was... Was he down to earth? He didn't speak in riddles. He was obviously a genius. He was somebody

that was just creative all the time. Was he punctual? He was... I don't remember him being late for meetings with me. Who is this musician

that you speak of? It's no secret that he developed a bad drug problem and, you know, people that are on heroin are not always that punctual. But there was no stories of him,

if he was doing a TV show or he was doing a concert, I mean, there's no stories of him not showing up for a gig or anything like that. I got a couple more questions. When Nirvana rehearsed, was he like, I'm in charge? Oh, he was completely in charge of everything. But he never had to raise his voice. He was a soft-spoken guy, and he's physically small.

He was like 5'2 and skinny. Yeah, yeah. And he was definitely physically the smallest of the three of them. And he was very short and slight. But he never had to raise his voice. These other guys just knew who he was. And everybody knew who he was. And he made every single was. And he,

uh, he made every single decision. You know, he wrote the lyrics and the music. He wrote, uh, you know, the lyrics,

uh, he played the guitar. He, he, he, he approved of every single decision. He designed the album covers. He wrote,

he, the, the video, the famous smells like teen spirit video. He storyboarded it. You know, he said, here,

here's the video and hire somebody to shoot this, you know, rightboarded it. He said, here, here's the video, and hire somebody to shoot this. Motherfucker, right? It's really, it's amazing. He designed the t-shirts. I remember one of the early meetings, you were sitting there and he pulls out a napkin and he says, oh, here's what I want for the next t-shirt. So he was completely, he had a fully developed vision

in his mind of what rock and roll was at that moment, and everybody around him, and when we go to MTV, early on, this was the period vision and his mind of what rock and roll was at that moment and everybody around them whether and when we go to mtv early on this was the period of time when mtv was the dominant medium for for music in the country it was it was the way you became a famous musician so after they had the hit they they made demands we we need nirvana to do some acoustic stuff in the studio and blah blah blah and you know you when when mtv said jump you jumped even if you were kurt cobain if you wanted to be successful and we were there and by this time

unfortunately he had developed a drug problem and was kind of nodding out and and uh while they were editing it you know because they shot it on a sound stage and then they're editing it in real time and they're going to put it on and and he'd be lauded at it and then he'd suddenly stick up his head and said, I think two shots before there should be a close-up of the drummer. And the MTV goes, okay, Kurt. You know, they just, like, he just, he was a genius about that, about rock and roll. It didn't solve his emotional problems, obviously.

But he was, for me, the most brilliant artist I ever got to see and work with up close. Did you see the Netflix documentary? You know, I don't watch any of the movies about him. It's so painful for me, the way he died, that I've just sort of made a promise to myself a long time ago. So I didn't see the Gus Van Zandt movie. I didn't see any of these documentaries. So they didn't approach you to interview for the documentary? It gets me too upset.

I know it sounds a little precious, but that's really the way I am about it. So you weren't interviewed for any of these documentaries? No, not that I know of. I know there was a close-up at one point when Kurt and Courtney did their wills. There was a thing. They both died. Who would get custody of Francis? They asked me to

so there was a close up of that so I got a bunch of calls I've been interviewed for books you know about them I wrote in my book there's a chapter of course about Nirvana I don't mind having a conversation like this of course about him

I'm so honored that I got to work with him but to watch these things it just puts me in a dark place. How old was your daughter when he died? She was three, I think. Oh, she was too young. I was going to say, you must have been the coolest dad ever. No, well, she met him

many times. He was great with kids. And before he had his own daughter, he would come over and play with my daughter a lot. And I think she has a vague memory of him. You know, we've got a couple of photos of the two of them together from when she was two and three years old. Sorry, I'm still listening. I'm not probing at the moment.

Are we going to get the Wilderness song up and running? No, we can't get the Wilderness song up and running. Can we play it on the iPhone? No. Okay. I will ask one question, up and running. Can we play it on the iPhone? No. But it's one of Colin's best. I will ask one question because I know that Dave Grohl now is also considered to be

a great musician and a great creative person. Well, he's incredibly successful. There's no denying that. The Foo Fighters are one of the most successful artists around. I don't have an emotional connection to them. I heard that in your response. But what I'm wondering is I like him personally. I don't have an emotional connection to them. I heard that in your response.

What I'm wondering is... I like him personally. I just haven't seen him in a long time. It's not part of my life. Do you think that he felt that he was being smothered underneath Kurt Cobain at the time? I've never heard him say that. I think he knew who Kurt was. Kurt knew who he was. He was an incredible drummer.

I remember Kurt telling me that he was a really good singer. He says, when Dave sings harmonies, he's a great singer. I don't think Dave... Dave was so nice. I mean, he never was complained. But obviously, he had these other talents that were not apparent as the drummer in Nirvana, being a lead singer, front man, and a songwriter. He plays guitar, too.

We knew he was the best-looking guy in Nirvana. The girls always gravitated towards Dave. Better-looking than Kurt? In a conventional way. The girls liked him, even though Kurt was the lead singer and the genius? Certain girls gravitated to Kurt, but Dave was more of a

classically good- looking rock guy. I didn't know that. Well, this is just disappointing because why wouldn't the woman be attracted to the main dude? I always thought

they were. There's different kinds of women and different kinds of dudes. I'm just saying, Dave did quite well. There's always like girls when you're

growing up, you always pick the person. They always say, oh God, who's the... Was anybody into Ringo? Yes, Ringo got a lot of tail. But he probably just got leftover tail.

Nobody actually went for Ringo and said, I want Ringo. No, there's a certain... I'm old enough to remember this. Girls had different favorites, and there were a certain kind of girl that loved Ringo because he was like you would protect him. Right. The one you brought home to mom.

Yeah. And there was a vulnerability about him that, yeah, he did fine. He was a beetle. He was a beetle. I understand that. There's never been anything like a beetle. I know that, but I'm just, the question was, is did anybody favor him over the other ones? I just would have always assumed that he got whatever was left over after the other three.

But apparently they were Ringo chicks. They were Ringo chicks. So that's interesting. That was the amazing thing about the Beatles is each of the four of them had an identity. That's like really, in most groups, like you're saying, there's one or two stars and then there's the backup. I mean, the Stones, it's Mick and Keith. Well, Paul was the cute one. Well, not for nothing, it's one of the only bands that I can think of that you either

say the name of their band, or you go John, Paul, George, and Ringo. Yeah. There's no other band. And the Shackles, that's Noam's band. Now, you haven't met the third Shackle. It's Noam, Colin, and Nick. Nick. Now, Nick haven't met the third shackle. It's Noam, Colin, Nick. Now, Nick is okay. Oh, my God.

Nick is amazing. No, he's an amazing talent, but Colin is clearly the best looking of the three shackles. Now, you know, I would imagine after a show. Rose hangs out waiting for me. Noam doesn't get it. Rose is our biggest fan, but she's 83 years old. Oh, Rose.

Rose, yeah. She's an 83-year-old that comes here every week to listen to the... We do music here once a week, and the Shackles are a resident band.

Now, Noam is the owner of the Comedy Cellar, so, you know. It's a big deal. It's nepotism. It's a very big deal. Home for owner he didn't audition for it

but his band it's my court I get to play his band is the so Noam has more I mean I don't Colin

you're here because you're we presume that you have a big interest in Nirvana I certainly do otherwise I'm going to move on to the next people on this auspicious list here

the next oh on the list okay unless you have any more Nirvana questions I'm always curious about going to move on to the next people on this auspicious list here. The next. Oh, on the list. Okay. Unless you have any more Nirvana questions. I am always curious about, because we're in bands, like, just like, like, we have a friend. I did have one question, but go on. We have a friend who is touring with the Stones now. She's the new Gimme Shelter girl in the Stones.

Oh, okay, cool. Sasha Allen. And she's been in our band, and now she's touring with the Stones. And I asked her, like, what is it like with the Stones when they rehearse? Like, are they still serious about it? She goes, they rehearse. Keith records the entire rehearsal. He goes home and listens

to it. Then he comes back, and he gives everybody notes. Like, apparently, he's still taking these stones shows as seriously as he did when he was 30, which I thought was just, you know. Maybe more seriously than when he was 30. You'd think by this time, they'd be like, we've done it a million times, but no. They're deadly serious about it.

Well, Keith is serious, probably. Mick is too. Mick is very serious, I'm pretty sure. I think you don't have that kind of success without being serious about it. Think of so many artists from the 60s. There's only one Rolling Stones.

Even in a genre which, at a casual listen, appears to be sloppy in a way, like the Stones or like Nirvana. Right. It's not exactly perfectly lined up classical music. But that's the art form. Right. Yes.

But that's what's interesting. That's why it's harder to imagine, like, you know, you figure like Emerson, Lake, and Palmer or something, like, obviously they're sweating every detail. I want to ask you a question. Different details. One of my current clients is Steve Earle, who lives just a couple blocks away from here.

He lives right on Bleaker Street. And he has this song, Galway Girl, which is incredibly successful in Ireland. It's played at weddings. It's by far the biggest hit he ever had. What is it about a guy from Texas with those roots that speaks to the Irish public? Well, first of all, that kind

of artist and that kind of music has informed a lot of the music that's come out of the homegrown artists. And not for nothing, one of the reasons that that song got very big in Ireland is because of an Irish artist called Mundy. Wait, it's Galway Girls?

But it's about Ireland. Well, it's about a girl, a dark-haired girl from Galway that caught Steve Earle's eye and stole his heart. Well, of course it's going to speak to the Irish. It's about a Galway girl. Not of course, but that's a factor. Well, so there was a live recording that Mundy did

that went huge with Sharon Shannon. Yeah, yeah. And it was like Song of the Summer stuff in Ireland. It was played at every occasion. So it got into the cultural zeitgeist and really wove its way into our conversation. Well, I don't know much about Steve Earle. I do.

My friend Brian Steinberg, he's always going on about Steve Earle. He's fantastic. Yeah, he's great. Is he like a John Prine kind of a guy? Is he? Yeah, one of those... Well, he's a singer-songwriter. He's a contemporary

and a good friend of John Prine's. You know, it's a little different... Swagger. There's a little more of a rock... Yeah. ...base to Steve's music. He had this big hit years ago, Copperhead Road, and plays

more with the band. So he can play the folky stuff and he'll play with clubs, City Winery and other places in the village. But he's a little more rock, but they're both people that were obviously very influenced by Bob Dylan and bring a poetry into their lyrics. Yeah. Well, that's one reason that that stuff really appeals to the Irish market, which is big. Getting into, we were talking about chicks just a few minutes back.

Just hold that thought, Colin. Sorry. How dare we hire the tone? I feel so guilty. I'm so sorry. Steve Earle is not the kind of artist that the chicks yell and scream about. You're wrong about that, Dan.

Is he wrong about that? He's absolutely wrong. Yeah. You don't understand. Anybody who's musical enough to make, to rivet people in an audience gets laid a lot. Way more than a comedian. It is music.

Music connects in a way that nothing else does. I understand this, but I just, Steve Earle, I just, when I think of chicks, I don't think Steve Earle. Dan, you don't know chicks. You don't know chicks at all. Let's just settle this right now. All I'm hearing is that you wouldn't want to fuck Steve Earle. No, it's like, I don't know chicks are into them, especially now. Whereas I have a shot.

I've never heard a chick talk about Steve Earle. You're talking to the wrong chicks I don't know I mean you know right it's more like you know the chicks they're more into like Katy Perry

Katy Perry you know there are different ages of chicks I understand that Katy Perry's the chicks that he hangs out with yeah no I understand that

I just certain certain artists don't have the same appeal to women that certain other artists do I think that's fair to say. Fair to say. I think that.

May I ask my one Nirvana question that I was curious about? Yeah, yeah. And then we'll move on. So my question is kind of an industry question. It's like you were around one of those rare phenomena that when I hear about them, I just think, like, it's the man behind the curtain. It's Wizard of Oz stuff.

You said that there they were playing their show in LA and they were playing a couple of songs that they were recording, which they recorded never mind in two weeks or something in that LA studio or something. That's the lore. It was a little more than two weeks. I think it was about

a month. But you said that nobody even expected it to come from teen spirit but when teen spirit came out it was like touch paper that just went global and so quick how does that work and what does it look like because to me that's the stuff like we wrote a great song together and you know when we wrote it we were so buzzed we were like shit this could go and you know which song is that summer is gold and we thought it was we were so buzzed. We were like, shit, this could go global. And you know, it could. Which song is that?

Summer is Gold. And we thought it was going to be a nice kind of a summer. If we got the connections, there's no reason that this song shouldn't have legs. So in my mind, I picture, you know, why not be ambitious? And I picture songs like that that do have that touchpiper and just connect industry-wise. That's the part that gets me. So it didn't take like months of orchestrating a payola campaign and getting this guy in this market. It was literally, truly organic in the

rarest of senses in the industry. Well, it was rare. I don't know, you know, pure organic doesn't exist, you know, because still you got to somehow get people to listen to something. And again, this was a moment when there was a sense that there was an exhaustion of the previous wave of rock and roll. What year is this, by the way? 91, by the end of 91, right? Yeah. Sorry, 91, 91 and 92. So there was a sense of that something new was probably going to come. And there was this subculture that had been building up over the previous 10 or 15 years

with passionate fans, but it was a cult audience. But Sonic Youth could sell like a thousand tickets. But the Pixies, O.E.M., all that kind of stuff. The Pixies were the role model. Kurt always said in those days, do you think we could ever be as big as the Pixies? And I said, I think so. You know, but, you know, it was an ambitious thing. They sold like 300,000 albums.

This was in the days when albums still existed and sold. And the biggest artist that had come out of this alternative world at that time was Jane's Addiction, which was about, I think, $700,000 or $800,000. And so because they had sold $30,000 on an indie label, now a pretty well-known label called Sub Pop, at that time they became well-known because of Nirvana. That got the attention of the organized record business. That was a microcosm of, if this label with no marketing money and that first record, Bleach,

that was recorded in a couple of days for under $1,000. So that put them on the radar screen. So when I and my then partner, John Silva, went out to try to make a record deal for Nirvana, five or six labels wanted them. They had earned the attention of the so-called industry by dint of selling 30,000 on a pure indie label, which was a good number at the time. But the expectations were that they maybe then could sell 100 or 150,000.

That was the range of what Sonic Youth did. The deal was structured in a way that the label would make a little money on that, and then they'd have this artist that they would build over the course of the future. And that was the whole marketing mentality, was to sell 100,000, 150,000 records in terms of the marketing plan, the amount of money that was allocated for advertising, the amount of money that was budgeted for the video. That was not an expensive video by those terms. So it was a good deal. Geffen was an A label, you know, it was, it was, it was, but it was still a, you know, uh, perceived as a category of sort of a, to try to get the top of a

cult genre, which then was this sort of alternative rock or modern rock. They eventually called it or grunge or all these words, you know, just to make it sound like something different. Um, and then when the record was out, I remember the first week MTV added it, and I'm like, oh, I want them to play, there was this category called Buzzbin, which I remember got played like six times a day. I want it in Buzzbin. What is this?

This is great. And they said, well, the first week, we're going to just add it in Medium, and we were all stressing, like, how do we get it into Buzzbin? And then the next week, they put it in Buzzbin, because were all like stressing, like how do we get it into Buzzbin? And then the next week they put it in Buzzbin because within that one week, the response was so strong.

Every radio station that played it, that was what was requested. So the answer to your question is there are certain songs, one out of a thousand, one out of a million, that have a magic that is completely just attracts people

and en masse in a way different from hundreds and hundreds of other songs that sound kind of the same, that may have the same instruments. That was a 90s version of I Want to Hold Your Hand. Yeah, and it was just... That's right. There's nothing like that. And still is.

You still hear it. By the way, were you married at the time? I was. You just had a little girl, right? Yes, people have little girls and they're not married. Yes, sure, yeah. Because I'm thinking that...

Not to the woman that I'm now with. But I'm saying, in addition to being the ugliest guy in a rock band, you get a lot of play. Being the manager of a famous rock band might get you a lot of women, too.

By the way, I want to... Certainly not. We got Dan back in the room. That's ridiculous. Backing up my previous point, I was just... I only wish. Y'all know.

I just finished... Is that a Twitch one? I just finished... Not just finished, but I finished about a month ago Bruce Springsteen's autobiography. And he said that there were almost no chicks... Now, not to say that Bruce wasn't getting laid. He certainly was. But he said there were not a lot of chicks at his concerts until he had a hit with

Hungry Heart Hungry Heart, yeah then all of a sudden the chicks started coming out until Hungry Heart? until Hungry Heart you know how many chicks turned Born to Run?

chicks don't do poetry I can't imagine that's what he said in his autobiography I think the audiences Born to Run Darkness these were very male audiences

and rock and roll is mostly male. Pop is mostly female in terms of audience. And Steve Earle and John Prine and those types of artists are even more male, I would think. It just bugs Dan that Steve Earle is getting a lot of plays.

No, it doesn't bug me. He's just spinning this in ridiculous ways, really. I'm just trying to be entertaining. That certainly doesn't bug me that Steve Earle is getting whatever Steve Earle is getting. There's just so much more interesting parts of this conversation than if the musicians are getting laid or not. No, I think that is interesting, though.

Well, I'm not... That is interesting. And they're all getting laid. The question is what we're talking about, what kind of music attracts which gender, which is very interesting. And I think our guest hit upon it. Pop and rock and roll, the dichotomy,

the gender divide between pop and rock and roll is quite interesting. The irony is that I've taken road trips with Dan, and all he plays on the iPad is like 70s, iPod is 70s light FM pop. And I make no secret of this. Like bread and... No, not bread. Stop. Why not bread?

Sometimes when we touch, the honesty is too much. It's a great fucking song. Don't you remember you told me? Like Tommy Boy. I've made no secret of my love of soft rock. This is not anything that I hide nor should I.

I'm saying that's part of the reason you can't manage to sleep with people. I would avoid those road trips, Don. But you turn up in ACDC. I'm right there with you as well. As long as you shook me all night long. Let's go through some of the other, because I know Colin, and Colin, you're going to have to take the lead on this. Okay. Because I know that the Beastie Boys are legendary.

Let me just interject. Yes. Your colleague, Mr. Calabria, pulled my bio from an old internet bio. I worked with the Beastie Boys for about a month. Okay. You know, I love the Beastie Boys. Is it a good move? Fantastic. They are geniuses. Well, then you tell us what you want to talk about.

Let's talk about what he's doing now. May Adam rest in peace. But it's really my ex-partner, John, it was his idea that we should manage the Beastie Boys. I don't have any good Beastie Boys stories, except to say that I share your enthusiasm for them. Well, I wonder... I can talk about Led Zeppelin. I worked with them when I was...

You worked with Led Zeppelin? We love Led Zeppelin. We do love Led Zeppelin. I thought that might work in this room. It definitely does. It definitely does. I wonder, so when I first came to this country with the band that I came with from...

Mr. North. Mr. North. Mr. North. Ireland via Italy, actually. Different story. We got signed to William Morris to Barbara Skydell. Did you ever know Barbara Skydell? Oh, I did know her very well and loved Barbara Skydell. I loved her too.

Yeah, she was a booking agent. You know, in these days, premier talent... Frank Barcelona. Frank Barcelona started it and she was his number two, was the dominant booking agent for decades. They were Bruce's agent. You too. Tom Petty.

You too. Just you go down the list. And she was very tough, very effective, and very nice at the same time. A difficult combination to achieve. That was a fast date. Oh, sorry. Let's get to Led Zeppelin. very nice at the same time. A difficult combination to achieve. That was a fast day. Oh, sorry. Let's get to Led Zeppelin.

The reason I brought it up was, so her first ever gig in the music industry when she was 18 in 1969 was taking care of, like, in some way

kind of road managing or just project managing a Led Zeppelin gig which was playing for some rich dentist's 16-year-old son in California or something. And the surrounding stories, I don't have permission to tell,

but they were interesting, let me tell you. Well, I was Zeppelin's publicist in America starting in 1973. Wow. How old were you? I was 22, and then I became 23 over the course of the year. It's amazing. It's just a different world. So I came in.

They were already four years into their career. I wasn't around in 69. But yeah, premiered Brooke Zeppelin when they started, and then the manager, may he rest in peace, Peter Grant, who is my boss, was a very intimidating character. I don't think he's resting in peace. Former professional wrestler, tough, tough guy, cockney guy, but good boss to me. He pulled them from Premier because he said, you know, Zeppelin's the biggest band.

Why should we pay them 10%? So it was kind of a sore point with Barbara and Frank that Zeppelin had left premiere. By the time I worked with Zeppelin, they didn't have an agent. They just went directly to the promoters. Did everybody in Zeppelin get women? What do you think? Obviously, every successful musician is going to get women.

I'm just trying to make a point that if me as a fan want to get women, take a woman to my house, I don't put Steve Earle on. Let me tell you something. You might not want to put Zeppelin on either. Zeppelin's audiences were mostly male. Oh, so I was going to ask you.

First of all, we love Zeppelin. And I remember one of the worst things that ever happened was my father wouldn't let me go see a Led Zeppelin concert because I got a bad grade in math. And it's the only time he ever really followed through with a punishment with me. Oh, man.

I'm pretty sure it was a tour where the song remains the same. Wow. Well, that was Houses of the Holy with the album with Song Remains the Same. Yeah, that's 73 is when that album came out. That's when they had that

famous MSG concert. That's that tour. How's the Holy was with Jermaker, Dyer Maker. Correct. That was on as well. Come on, come on. Give me more, give me more. All right, anyway.

No one really knows what Dyer Maker means. Well, it's Jamaica. It's Jamaica. It's Jamaica. It's Jamaica. It has a reggae feel. Right. Actually, everybody knows what Dianmaker means. Well, it's Jamaica. It's Jamaica. It's Jamaica. It has a reggae feel. Right. Exactly right. What does Jamaica mean?

It sounds like Jamaica because it's a reggae song. Well, no, I didn't make it. She went on her own accord. That's an old bit. You ever hear that old bit? That's exactly correct. That's why they named it that. Yeah, I read that somewhere.

No, you're exactly right. Oh, shit. Everybody laughs at me I took my wife on a vacation Jamaica? No She came on her own accord That's exactly right Everybody scorns what they don't understand And they mock Jesus also

Oh lord Oh you're that kind of Jew So what's your takeaway on Led Zeppelin? They stole their whole first album, though, didn't they? Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask about. The first couple. Have you seen those YouTube videos comparing the Led Zeppelin songs to

the Days of Confusion? I have not. Oh, my God. It's stunning. I'm just very glad that I got to work with them because the amazing thing about this rock and roll thing, which is passing from the center stage of culture but still, you know, 1973, that was

a few years ago. It's 40 years ago, right? It's 40 years ago and I still get to talk about it. It's unbelievable. That it still lasts in the minds of some of the fans enough that it's like a thing to talk about 40 years later. Well, let's face it.

That's all. I mean, who are we going to be talking about? What 2016 artists are we going to be talking about in 40 years? Well, I don't know about you. I probably won't be on the planet in 40 years. But my son is definitely going to be talking about Kanye. That I can promise you. Now, you'll be 106 in 40 years.

Looking as well as you do now, I believe you will be. Possibly I might not be. They're working on some interesting things now in terms of nanotechnology to keep Jews like you and I alive. I'm more of a meditator, Hindu type.

I think there's some other planet besides this one. At 106, I'm not sure I'm going to want to be as spry as I am now. Well, you believe that after we die, something happens, that we go into another dimension? I think that's as likely as any other.

I think nobody knows, including atheists. Nobody knows. My intuition is yes, but I can't prove it. It's just an opinion. Well, as far as what happens after we die, I think best case scenario,

we get reborn in another body. Forget about dying. What about when we sleep? In my dreams, I don't even have a name. It's so different. Reality, and at the time, it seems like the only reality that exists So obviously there's a lot that we don't understand In my dreams I'm gay

Do you have a name? I'm gay in my dreams You know I write songs But proud I hope I've written some melodies in my dreams They're never good of course Paul McCartney wrote yesterday. Paul McCartney's

a musical person. My songs are all terrible. Sing us one you wrote. I forget them. I forgot them all. Like when I wake up, I'm like, hey, that's pretty good,

but I'm only half awake. Then when I'm fully awake, I'm like, no. Yeah, you're a musical person. I've heard you sing karaoke. Well, I sing. I can carry a tune. That's no secret.

And of course, I've featured... We've heard him on the show. We've heard him on the show. And I do have a certain innate... Oh, God. It's rhythm that's your problem.

You're not very... Your rhythm is... Well, in my head, my rhythm is good. It's just my coordination is bad. Maybe that's it. Well, can't you just get a percussionist?

Well, no, no. I'm not looking to get into rock and roll or into the music business. I'm just more of a karaoke shower singer. Oh, okay. But there aren't karaoke drummers? I do write music in my sleep, is what I was just saying. Well, I would love to hear one of your songs. Well, next time I write one, I'll record it on my iPhone when I wake up. You should.

And perhaps the shackles can add some of their magic. We'll spruce it up for you. We'll polish that. We're basically at an hour. We done? We good? We talked to you for three hours because, you know, you have access.

Sometimes you make a milkshake and you have a little milkshake left over. Sometimes here at the podcast, we have a little left over and we talk a little bit longer than the hour. We have to cut in the songs, too. But I just like the fact that you know Robert Plant. I do. You know Jimmy Page.

I do. I know Robert a little better. Robert was more outgoing. But, yes, I know both of them. I've seen Robert recently. He just did a show with Steve Earle. At Town Hall, right?

Emmylou Harris and Buddy Miller at Town Hall for Syrian refugees. They would have stayed for Sirius Radio, but you went the other way and said Syrian refugees.

Sirius was involved with the show somehow. What about Sirius refugees? People that can't get on Sirius Radio. No, Sirius was involved with the show somehow. What about serious refugees, people that can't get on Sirius Radio? No, serious refugees would be people that only can get on Sirius Radio. That would be us, I think. Me too. Kristen wanted to ask one serious or general question. Well, my question is more about the business,

and we talk about it with comedians as well. Thank you, Colin. No problem. It annoyed me. No problem. Um, it annoyed me. Go ahead. Just, do you think,

um, as far as just how the difference between how widely available music is now and all the platforms that are available, do you think that that's something as a, from the business perspective helps music or do you think it dilutes kind of, it's something that prevents us from having these super powerful artists like Nirvana really break through because there's just so much material.

Well, I there's sort of different parts of that question. From a financial point of view overall, there's just no question that the pool is much, much smaller than it was when people were buying

compact discs or cassettes or albums. There's just one small fraction of the total amount of money available. And that obviously reduces the amount of money that record companies or other people are going to risk in terms of artists or marketing them or those kinds of things. That's just seems to be irreversible. It certainly hasn't been reversed yet. It's been a downward spiral financially for the last 15 years. But then there's this other level of human beings, and especially young people,

because there's something, I think, about being a teenager where music is particularly important to you. For me, I still go back to certain records I heard when I was 16 or 17. Absolutely. Nothing is ever going to touch me the way, you know, like a Rolling Stone did or something. That would be my version of Smells Like Teen Spirit. I thought you were going to say the way my father did, but go ahead.

So young people are still going to just be galvanized from time to time by certain artists. It creates this sense of community and identity. So to some people, it's Taylor Swift. To some people, it's Kanye. To some people, it's people. I'm too much of an old fart to know who they are right now. But I think the ability of people all over the world to hear music has been multiplied at the same time that the ability for musicians to get paid for that

has been reduced. So it's a paradox. One thing, this was kind of brought up in an earlier conversation, one thing I think about these ages when you said, you remarked how extraordinary it was that 50 years later after certain musical events

we're talking about them with a passion and we wonder will this generation have similar conversations? I'm positive that they will. You are positive. I'm not. For seven kids, I have a 22 and a 26-year-old, and I just see what music has meant to them. But in terms of modern artists?

Yeah, my son is obsessed with hip-hop, so I don't know the names of a lot of the people that he loves. I'm a rock and roll guy. like modern artists? Yeah, my son is obsessed with hip-hop, so I don't know the names of a lot of the people that he loves. I'm a rock and roll guy. But his passion about it and the way him and his friends are and what it means to them to see some of these shows and to get some of these mixes is exactly the same as what it meant to me to hear a new Bob Dylan record. It's just God doesn't turn off the faucet just because we got older.

Sure, sure. Yeah, but I wonder if there's like a poignancy to, that was like specific to the kinds of music being created that just, let's say, and I know there's a bias because it was our eras, but like it does seem to, as musicians, we can nearly quantitatively compare and say there was more substance readily at will, even in disposable culture. Listen, man, during the rock era, when I was in my 20s, you were always meeting these guys in their 40s who would say this was terrible music. Jazz was the real music. These people are playing three chords.

How does it compare to what Miles Davis did or Duke Ellington or blah, blah, blah? Except that if you go into some music store and they have the magazine rack of guitar player magazines, it's still fucking Clapton, Jimmy Page, Keith Richards on the cover

of those magazines 40 years later. When I auditioned musicians, when I used to have the Cafe War or the Village Underground, 60% of the songs they would audition with would be Stone songs, Beatles songs, songs which had been made 20, 25 years before they were born. So there is something different about that era. Look, there is such a thing as a golden age. Yeah, it seems to be a golden age. That does exist.

Let me just say, because jazz was a different era, a different genre, so... So hip-hop is a different genre from rock and roll? Right, so hip-hop is new and people will love hip-hop. Listen, Nirvana... But within rock...

Rock is now what jazz used to be. People were into rock now, still like old rock. I wish it weren't true. Are you saying rock is dead? No, rock is old. Difference between being old and being dead. I don't think it's dead,

but we're here talking about Nirvana and the moment that Smells Like Teen Spirit transformed people around the world with a rock song. Since then, which is more than 20 years ago, what's the next rock song after that that you can identify? You can't think of it. Some people would say as a band,

Arcade Fire was an innovative rock group. That's already 10 years ago. The new phenomenons that are reaching 16-year-olds today are not playing the guitar. It's just one of those things. They're not playing the guitar. During the jazz era, trumpet

players were a thing. Louis Armstrong, to me, I happen to love Louis Armstrong, even though I'm too young to have been a fan of his in real time. But then by the rock era, who's playing the trumpet? Very few people. I love the guitar. It's my favorite thing is to listen to a great guitar player. It always will be.

I always say I like music with guitars. I like music with guitars. That's what I like to listen to. I'm 66. People in their teens and 20s, the guitar is not that big a deal. Yeah. I still like a decent Taylor Swift or a decent Katy Perry song. Of course you do. Well, her record was great.

This last record was fantastic, 1989. Or Adele. I still like a decent Adele. Whereas my parents parents they just stopped listening after Frank I know that was it they just stopped

yeah yeah and I don't know you know well before we finish you want to just talk about great artists how about Leonard Cohen

okay you know I'm not going to get how about that career yeah and a man after your heart like a a meditating

uh searcher, I guess. Maybe not in other worlds, but like, you know. He was, I mean, just to listen to this record that he made when he knew he was dying at the age of 81 or 82, this most recent record, I can't believe how great it is. I haven't got to that, but I definitely did feel that way.

Sorry if it's taking from it slightly, about Blackstar with Bowie. Yeah, yeah. I thought that blew me away. And he knew he was dying during that too. Yes, he absolutely, that's, I mean, that was, it's so scripted slightly, about Blackstar with Bowie. Yeah, yeah. I thought that blew me away. And he knew he was dying during that too. Yes, he absolutely, that's, I mean, that was, it's so scripted. I imagine that this,

that's how you're describing Leonard's record. The one artist I got to work with in that category was Warren Zevon, because I released his last three albums on a label I used to have, and being in the studio with him when he knew he was dying and making that record, it's an unbelievable thing.

Now, there's a guy. Very few human beings could do that. The guy wrote a song, Excitable Boy, about a man that raped and killed his girlfriend or whatever and built a cage with her bones.

Excitable Boy, they all said. Now that guy's got to be kind of a mental patient to write a song like that. I mean, you knew the man. I loved him very much. By the time I worked with Warren, he was sober. I didn't know him in his drug years. And Excitable Boy was one of his earlier records.

But I don't think it's ever been fair to look at lyrics and act as if it was some essay or some linear thought process. It's a metaphorical thing. It's like Johnny Cash wrote this song, you know, Folsom Prison. I shot a man in prison just... In Reno just to watch him die. He did not actually shoot anyone anywhere.

No, I understand that, but one might be able to get an insight into somebody's personality. Listen, you want to talk about someone who girls loved and who always had a lot of girls around him until his dying day? Warren Zevon. Was that his real name, Zevon?

Yeah, Zevon, yeah. That's a crazy name. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like, Zevon could have been... You know, I don't know Randy Newman. I'm a huge fan of his, but I don't know him.

If I could just... With regard to the name Zevon, that would have been a perfect name for a disco in the late 70s. Well, Jewish. His father was Jewish. But he didn't really know his father.

But Zvon just seems like a cool guy. Like Zvon. I agree. Like Limelight or Studio 54. Or a video game. Yeah, Zvon. There was Zaxxon. Yeah, Zaxxon.

There was Zaxxon. Thank you. That's what I was trying to get at. Now, Norman brought up Randy Newman. Yeah. Only because I was watching the get at. Now, Norman brought up Randy Newman. Yeah. Only because I was watching the credits for City Lights

and I think Randy Newman's father did the orchestration for Chaplin. Yeah, yeah. The Newman family is unbelievable. No, it's several generations

of film scoring. It's in the genes, man. It's in the genes. Am I right? Of course, everything's in the genes. Now that Trump's president, we can say that. You know, like Springsteen, I read his autobiography,

and I'm looking like, well, where's the music coming from? Because his father was like a bipolar, sometime factory worker, and his mother worked at a law firm. And I'm like, all right, there's got to be music in there somewhere. You believe it's in the genes, right? Musical talent? worked at a law firm, and I'm like, all right, there's got to be music in there somewhere. You believe it's in the genes, right, musical talent? I don't know. There's certainly some families where you can see that there's a greater likelihood, like Roseanne Cash, or there's people who come from parents that were musically good,

but then a lot of people, I mean, Kurt Cobain's family, there was nobody musical in his family. Maybe you went back to the... Bob Dylan's family, there was no one musical in his family. Look at Nora Jones. But I bet she's... Robbie Sharks?

She's Robbie Sharks. She doesn't even know. The answer is sometimes. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I bet, though, if you go back in these families, there was some guy in the old country that used to play,

and the whole village would come out and he would... How much tail did he get? He may or may not have got any tail. I bet you go back in Russia, there was some fiddler playing. Or there were musical people that never

exploited their musical talent, but it has to be in there somewhere. Of course it is. I prefer the theory of it's a mystery, and we think we can figure this out, and we never will. That's one theory. I said I prefer the theory. Musical ability is a neurological ability,

like any kind of thing, and the blueprint for your neurology is in your genes, and that's just the way it is. That being said... There's some plasticity, but that's the way it is. That being said, you take some plasticity, but that's the way it is. That being said, you take a legend like Bob Dylan

and their kids are never anywhere near what they achieve. It may take the fortuitous coupling of a little bit of this one and a little bit of that one together to get that

magic combination of genes that gives you that musical talent. Plus a moment in time that... Because you never hear of a huge musician and their kids are equally as big. They're never anywhere near it.

I know people who are tone deaf. And they are tone deaf. They're born that way. I'm tone deaf and my daughter has perfect pitch. My daughter's in a band called the Prettyettes that's on Rough Trade. And your wife is. Or your big... Tone deaf. Her mother... Two tone deaf people have a perfect pitch.

Because if you remember from Ninth Grade Biology, tone deaf is a recessive deaf people have a perfect picture because if you remember from ninth grade biology tone deaf is a recessive gene now of course this is along with blue eyes and not being able to taste salt can I go yet

no you can go I got an early morning tomorrow I'm sorry look at that Dave that's our joke we keep the guest until he asks I can't take it anymore

well that's how we do it we don't use an egg timer thank you so much for including me in your thing here. Thank you very much. You can see every Friday night, you can see Colin and Noam playing. And who knows, you may decide that... Well, if Steve Rowe comes, a lot of girls are going to come. I don't know if I can deliver him.

Normally, we have another comedian on, but we were so excited to meet you, we actually dedicated the whole thing to it. And we need Dan to rate this episode. Dan, how do you feel this went? Well, I don't do it every time. I don't rate the episode every time. No, but you've been doing it. I have done it on occasion.

I thought this was good. Okay, good. I'll take it. You know, I function in the comedic sphere. He's going to... So that... Everybody left. You know, I thought it was a very interesting discussion,

but people that come to hear about comedy, I hope they will also enjoy hearing about the music business. Agreed. But it's hard for me to gauge that. He chose not to stay and be insulted, so he decided to leave. That was a bad question. I didn't think he was going to say that. Really? You haven't learned nothing after all this time? You're right.

It's my fault. You trusted it to his diplomacy? It's my fault. Thank you very much, everybody. Good night.