The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Death, Old Friends, Gender

Episode Date: June 15, 2019

Greg Giraldo, Alingon Mitra & Nikki Jax

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from SiriusXM Channel 99, the comedy channel. My name is Noam Dorman. Rhonda. I'm the owner of the Comedy Cellar, and I'm here at the back table with my partner and friend and sometimes adversary and my yang to my... Yeah, my yang to my yin. Whatever. Mr. Dan Natterman. Hey, Dan.

How do you do? And we have with us today Alingan Mitra as a stand-up comic whose TV performances include The Colbert, Conan, and Last Comic Standing. His multiple writing credits for television include The Daily Show

with Trevor Noah. He can be seen regularly at the Comedy Cellar. Hello. And he was on a couple weeks ago with Neil Cachal and...

Quite a memorable appearance. He didn't get to speak nearly enough. Well, that's when we did a very deep dive into the Mueller Report, which... I was completely lost.

Alingan was somewhat lost, and I assume the people listening at home were also fairly well lost. They weren't. We got a lot of feedback. Yeah, from the five people that weren't lost. I knew exactly what was going on the entire time. Anyhow.

You weren't even listening. And our producer Perry Ashonbund is here. And you don't have any credits here. And our first guest of honor, Matt Ballacher, is it my last name correctly? That's correct. Is a comic writer and former investment fund manager.

How much money did you handle? At most, about $55 million. $55 million. Is it Ballacher or Ballacher? Ballacher. Did you hear what I said? How do you know? I asked him. He confirmed it. He is the co-author Is it Balakar or Balakar? Balakar. Did you hear what I said? Yeah, but how do you know? I asked him. He confirmed it. He is the co-author of Greg Giraldo, a comedian story available

now on Amazon. And that was a labor of love. So what's your background with Giraldo? Were you friendly with him? Were you just a fan of his? I was a fan. I met him twice in California and I interned at Conan about 2000 and I started watching him Are you just a fan of his? I was a fan. I met him twice in California. And I interned at Conan about 2000.

And I started watching him there and then here. But I didn't know him personally. So we should mention that Greg Giraldo was a longtime comedy seller comedian and a great friend of the club and a personal friend of Noam's and Esty's. And my father's. And your father. And that he passed away about, has it been 10 years? Almost, 2010. Of an accidental overdose, I guess was the official.

A combination of booze, coke, and oxy. Okay, so we're just laying the background. So you were inserting a, and then you became an investment fund manager? Yeah. I was an econ major and a comedy geek, and then I went back to Los Angeles and started performing, but I kept my day job.

Did you go to business school? I'm interested in this. Eventually, yeah. Where did you go to business school? USC Marshall. All right. So Greg Giraldo went to Harvard Law School. I've heard of that. Did you know Lincoln go to Harvard, School. So what did you learn? I've heard of that. You know Lingon go to Harvard too? It was for undergrad, yeah. Did you know Giraldo at all? No.

You're too young, right? No, no, no. Yeah. I saw him as a judge on Last Comic Standing and I knew his work, but I never got to meet him personally. He was amazing. Like, just an amazing talent. If he were alive and healthy, I'm sure he'd be hosting

something like John Oliver's show or The Daily Show or something like that. He was so prolific, too. I feel like in this era when content is so much in demand, he'd be able to satisfy the crowds. Yeah, he was a genuine intellect. So what did you learn about Geraldo? Tell us some Geraldo stuff.

Well, I learned that he played guitar. Oh, we learned that he played guitar. Oh, we knew that. I didn't know that. In Common Law, which was his short-lived sitcom on ABC, I believe it was, there's a scene in which he played guitar, I remember. So you did your homework. Well, no, I just remember seeing that episode.

Well, he also, like, when he was working at Skadden, it was a big law firm for about a year, he left to perform at musical open mics before he ever did stand-up. I didn't know that. I talked to some of the guys who worked with him at Skadden. And he also, Colin Quinn talked a lot about this, and I'm curious if he ever confided to you, Noam, that he would often say he wasn't good enough to be a comic.

And it got to the point where it seemed legitimate, where he said he suffered from the imposter syndrome. He was more intimate with Colin than he was with me, but he did say things like that to me. That just seems so nuts. But, you know, a lot of tremendously talented people are riddled with insecurities. Alingon, he can barely get out of bed in the morning.

Insecure about being so handsome all the time. Do you ever get imposter syndrome, a Lingon? Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's valid. But I bet everybody does. Even paranoid of enemies. Yeah, but when you're around such great comedians,

I feel like it's only natural for you to be like, what am I doing? I get imposter syndrome for the art form as a whole. I wonder if we're not all imposters. I mean, you know, sometimes I wonder how hard this really is. Stand-up, that is. And I've made that point

on the show before. And I want to tell you something, Dan. You made that point before. I don't mind you making it again. But God forbid I make any point that I made once in April of 92. Dan has to bring it up. You made that point before And I don't mind you making it again But God forbid I make any point that I made once In April of 92 Dan has to bring it up You said that before once on the show

Listen I think that When you see a guy like Dave Attell Do you know The triple somersaults that he does With Adonet every night Yeah it's gotta It would get to anybody. I mean, the fact is that that's not the only way to skin

the cat of being a success instead of comedy. But my God, I mean, like, if I compare it to musicians, you see a musician playing like that, you're like, oh, fuck this. I can't do this. Was he feeling that even later on? But we all see... That's surprising. Like, I get it when you're up to... But, like, I mean,

he was really, like, hitting his strideide you know yeah i was talking about you holding on i said like you said you feel it's yeah yeah there's my i don't think that's why i feel like it's justified for like when you're like a earlier in your career it's like well you're seeing the greats and it's like well that's not that's not where i am but when like i mean giraldo passed away he was he was one of the greats i I mean, it shows how it kind of just doesn't, like, logic doesn't apply. You know what I mean? Like, when you have those issues between your ears...

Well, it's like the anorexic girl that looks in the mirror and could swear she's a big fatso. Right. Perfect analogy. It's body morphic disorder, whatever they call it. So this would be a similar thing. But, you know, just wondering about that. At some point they can be fat while they have anorexia and actually see a big fat soul, right? That's correct.

It's only at the end of the anorexia that they look in the mirror. They might have been fat for 60% of the time. They might have. All right. That may be the case, but that's not relevant to our discussion here. I mean, you get used to seeing. Anyway, so, you know, well, this is what bothered me about the Geraldo thing, is that he became known as an insult comic.

Right. Which was something that we who saw him in the clubs never even knew he'd even be good at. It was not what he was, what we all admired about him. And then when he died, the newscast, the insult comic, Greg Giraldo died. And I felt that really, I don't know what the word is,

but it was... Undercut? It failed to portray him for the genius that he was. Is that because he was doing the roast and that's what he was known for, those roasts? Yes, that is the reason.

I think you said gnome. It was like calling Michael Jordan the slam dunk champion. Did I say that? Yeah. That's brilliant. Clearly. When did I say that? Oh, probably a year ago.

Yeah, like five years ago whenever we interviewed you. It was an exhibition. He was good at it, but it didn't incorporate the breadth of his comedy. Yeah, I mean, this guy was unbelievable off the top of his head. He was a deep, deep thinker, and he had demons. What did you learn about these demons that people have? I'm sure you must have learned about substance abuse in general. Yeah. I learned that Greg and probably everyone else who suffers from it, it's a mental disorder first, and then you take drugs or booze or whatever to kind of medicate,

to self-medicate. What's the mental disorder? It seems, and this is unclear, because I don't think he ever got a diagnosis, but some sort of depression. And that was with him his whole life, because he has quotes from when he was at Harvard, and even when he got in, he always felt like an outsider

and then when he took drugs or when he drank too much, then he felt comfortable in his own skin Do you ever get the sense of his depression in his comedy though? Periodically but I think he was best when he was happy and I think he was most prolific when he was happy

especially at the end I saw him in Irvine, California in 2009 and he seemed a little off I mean he was most prolific when he was happy. So especially at the end, I saw him in Irvine, California in 2009, and he seemed a little off. I mean, he was still great, but he mentioned about going through the beginnings of a divorce and stuff. But even when he was on Tough Crowd and when I saw him here, he never came off as this sullen, depressed comic at all. I think it's a myth that being tortured is good for creativity.

I think you're right that creative people are usually at their best when their mood is good. However, creative people are often... There's a correlation between, as they discovered, I think, in numerous studies, between depression and mental illness

and creativity. There is a correlation? Well, that seems to be what is found in numerous studies. However, that doesn't mean that when you're depressed, that's actually good for your creativity. The depressed person, when he's least depressed, is at his most creative. You can draw from those experiences, I feel like.

You can draw from it, but you're most functional when you're in... Yeah, you have to be at a healthy enough place to talk about it. Right, I mean, depression is crippling. You can't function if you're in the depths of depression. Now, as far as LSD being good for creativity, I can't speak to that,

but there is, I think there's evidence that it might be. I just, I'm not an LSD user, or a pot user. I don't know, who smokes pot here? Can you write better jokes on marijuana? Anyone? I think it depends on who you are.

But I want to say one thing. One of the reasons why I wanted Alingon to join us was because he did this thing on Instagram. And I know that Geraldo's considered like this really intellectual thinker. And I think that, well, Olingon is also. So he does this thing on Instagram where he did, I think it's finished now. Did you get through 30? Yeah, it was each day of the month of May.

Well, maybe you can say what you did. I mean, basically each day in the month of May, I looked at one comedy set that I really liked. And I broke it down as like what I really liked about it. So I was just looking for patterns in the month of May, I looked at one comedy set that I really liked, and I broke it down as what I really liked about it. So I was just looking for patterns in the comedy, and one of them was... I mean, Geraldo had a ton of Conan sets, but one of the old Conan sets. Was it the Gay Muscle set? No, it wasn't. It was a set that...

I think it featured the material that he closes with in Good Day to Cross the River. I don't know. I just thought maybe you'd want to... It's so interesting to look... I mean, because you sort of break it down in your book, Matt, and it felt... I don't know. It's really interesting to look at it

from not just sitting there and laughing, but just like actually getting into the nitty gritty of it. So did you delve into his childhood? Yes. Is there anything in the childhood which would explain the depression? Or is it just something you're born with? Because it is genetic. That's a good question.

I think it's probably genetic. For all accounts, he had a really good childhood, like two-parent home. They loved him, super proud. I think he talked about... He loved his dad, as I recall. His dad died in... 2002, I think, of esophageal cancer.

And it seemed like he always wanted to please them, which is a very common, not just immigrant, but I mean, it's a very common desire for children. But no, I... How did you get this information on his childhood? Did you interview his mother? No, we interviewed, some of the sources don't want to say that, but we interviewed family members and people that knew him when he was young. And Marianne, who is his wife of about 10 years, we interviewed her and she gave us a lot of information.

And some of it, you kind of have to piece it together. Obviously, you couldn't interview him. Well, it's like detective work when you're writing a biography, especially a person that's no longer here. So when did he first show signs of depression? Probably per his friends I think around college, undergraduate. Because he

was a great student and he got into Harvard but he felt like he was dragged along by fate. He even said they just wanted a Hispanic. And so that was kind of an example of he had this depressive attitude about this wonderful accomplishment, you know, getting into Harvard Law.

I mean, like a lot of comics have passed away early. Your co-author is just sad. Wayne Jones here, ladies and gentlemen. Is there a reason you picked Geraldo? Because, I mean, there's so many comics who pass away early. And like what was it about his material that you were like, I got to write about this? Good question. Yeah, it was partly about his material, but also he passed away kind of before

the advent of Twitter. It existed, but he was of the generation where we didn't know a ton about him. And I thought he had this really fascinating story about giving up a lucrative white-collar law career to pursue stand-up comedy. And I just wanted to learn more about it.

If you had to write another biography, who would it be? No, Dorman. I'd love to do more about it. If you had to write another biography, who would it be? No, Dorman. I'd love to do something in the Comedy Cellar. Especially with Tyler Cowan. That would be a lot of fun. Forgive me for eating. I didn't eat since breakfast. Hopefully,

I'll die in some sort of dramatic way. Hopefully, it'll be right when the book is coming out. That would be good publicity, yeah. There was that Ed Koch documentary a few years ago, and Koch died the weekend the show, the documentary dropped. Wait for business.

Oh, it's the best. I mean, they must have been just kicking their heels. I know you're not supposed to say that, but come on. Well, you had a story about your father when he and Greg got in a fight, an argument, and then the next day Greg wrote an apology letter. I gave you the letter, but I don't see it in the book.

I don't remember getting the letter. You asked me for the letter, and I sent it to you. For sure. Well, maybe in the next edition we can put... I apologize. I don't remember getting it. Absolutely. But now there's more of an air of mystery. What did he say?

Do you recall what it said? I could probably... If you guys would talk, I could probably... I might have the email. So you can go ahead. You talk, and I'll try to find it. So Harvard, what was that like? You're talking to a Lingon?

Either one. Yeah, Lingon, did you feel any... I don't think Indians get a break at Harvard. Like, you were saying Geraldo felt like he only got into Harvard because he was Hispanic. They needed Hispanic. Right. I don't know if you had any of those feelings. Although, I don't know that Indians get any kind of a break at Harvard.

No, I think it's just as hard, if not harder. Because there's so many of them. Considered Asian, I guess. Yeah, India is part of Asia, so it makes sense. But Noam's made that point, by the way. We get into a lot of politically incorrect stuff here on the show, and Noam's made the point that affirmative action is damaging to those who belong there

and are perceived as not belonging. I repeated that point. I mean, that point's been made by many people. But it's interesting that Geraldo, he didn't just go to a great college. He then went to law school, then worked at, like, Skadden. I mean, there was a long path

before deciding to do stand-up, which is, I mean, somewhat surprising. Yeah, I mean, he was a little bit old. He was probably about mid-twenties when he started. And then a few years later, he had the sitcom deal for Common Law. So, I mean, his ascension was super steep. Right.

And then it was kind of funny, like, later on, he didn't get all the TV deals. But look at you. You're an investment guy that became a renowned biographer. Thank you, Dan. Well, I have the letters. They're just downloading now. And that's great. So we can read them here for the first time.

I wish the Wi-Fi was working properly. I wonder who could do something about that. It's really not me. Do you know why he took as much time as he did before getting into stand-up?

I knew a lot of people in college who decided to do comedy pretty early just because there was a hard land. Well, I can address that because I lived it. I went to law school as well. Right. And I started comedy earlier

than Greg did in his life. I mean, he started before me, but I started younger than he started. I was about 23. But at least in my case, and I suspect in many people's cases, the idea of being a stand-up comedy is absurd I remember Greg was telling me

I don't know if this is in the book I remember him telling me that his mother did not approve that his mother was like I don't want to watch you I'm trying to do her accent but he told me that his mother said she didn't want to watch him be a clown

or something like that words to that effect something like that, yeah. You know, these were immigrants. They come to America. Their dream is generally for their son to become a doctor, lawyer, Indian chief. Not a comedian, I think. And as you, as a son of immigrants of Lingon, must be able to relate to that on some level.

You know, the expectations of immigrant parents for their children to become professionals. Yeah, at least stable. So, I mean, we've discussed this with you, and I don't know what your experience was, I don't recall, when you came out, if you will, because it is like coming out, by the way. Saying to your parents you want to be a comic, and in a family that's not showbiz-oriented, it's a bit like coming out.

I mean, you know, on some level, but I was wondering what your parents' reaction was. Well, I mean, Indian culture is not very approving. My parents are different. They were very supportive, but that's not typical for Indian culture. Not at all typical. But I think, and in my case, I come from, well, my parents are Canadian, but I'm not going to count that as immigrants, but not a showbiz family. And so the idea of being a comic seemed absurd.

And so it took me a while to come to terms with it. Anyway, so I think that's the answer to that question, unless Matt has other information. I think you nailed it. And Noam has found the... He usually does. Noam has found the missing letters. So, he had a big fight with my father.

And he would get drunk. He's a little bit... I wouldn't say he's... The term nasty drunk creates an image which I don't think is accurate. But if he got angry when he was drunk, he could have an edge. And he

got very... He had a big fight with my father. And he wrote a letter. It's too long to read the whole thing, but I'll read the beginning of it. Was it about money? He said, My dearest Manny, I don't quite know where to begin. You should know that as I write this, I am sick to my stomach with shame.

Before I even begin to address the situation as Colin described it to me, I want to say some things that may be easier to express in writing and that hopefully will make clear that there was nothing underlying my moronic antics other than blind drunkenness. First of all, Manny, you should know how incredibly highly I think of you. Our relationship has become quite honestly one of the most important in my life. You are one of the most interesting, intelligent, and funny guys I've ever known. The friendship and support, inspiration, generosity you've shown me has affected me more deeply than you might

even imagine. Obviously you know how much I like and respect you. It goes on. I don't want to read the whole thing, but I'll skip to the ending. Manny, I can't even begin to apologize. I don't know where any of this came from. With Colin's help, I pieced together some of it, and all I can't even begin to apologize I don't know where any of this came from With Colin's help, I pieced together some of it

And all I can say is that I can't explain it I really, truly, and honestly can't Before Colin pulled me aside to talk tonight I had no idea that I had been such an asshole I sensed something strange in the air But I didn't realize the extent of it There's something about being incredibly drunk on tequila Which in more recent times has made me behave

In an increasingly erratic and unexplainable ways. What to do about that, of course, is a separate issue entirely. I guess that there's no way to prove that there's absolutely nothing deep in my subconscious that would explain this ridiculous behavior. I can only imagine that in my drunken haze, I thought I was being funny. I don't know. This is not a case of my simply being embarrassed, as was the case with the Esty baseball thing. Jesus, this has been a good week for me. I am much more obsessed with the fact that I caused you some pain and embarrassment

and that I have somehow damaged our relationship. As you said, we'll get past this. I can only hope to earn again the trust that I was proud you had in me. I'm sick and I'm deeply I suck and I'm deeply sorry. Wow. You don't have any idea what the actual dispute was? They were probably

arguing about Israel or something. No, seriously. And it, you know, and obviously it got nasty. But it's interesting there, and I hadn't read this in so long, that he's beginning to recognize himself that this is ratcheting up, that he's having experiences on alcohol that are worse and more erratic than he'd had previously. He brought up an interesting point.

Go ahead. The other thing I noticed about that... Talk closer to the mic here. The other thing I noticed about that is The other thing I noticed about that is that even in the apology, though, which is no doubt sincere, there's a kind of putting himself down, I suck kind of thing. Just kind of turning himself down

in order to make an apology. That sounds very kind of typical. What kind of accent is that, incidentally, Wayne? That's Midwestern? Mine? Canadian. Oh, you're Canadian. I knew there was something going on there My parents are Canadian I should have recognized it

Greg, in that apology brought up a point that we've discussed That's very white privilege of you What's that? If he was like You wouldn't ask In this day and age You couldn't ask anybody but a white guy

What kind of accent is that? Oh, I would I would I don't know if I should but I would I'm the kind of person that would say No, where are you really from?

Greg brought up, I mean, in his letter, Greg brought up a point that we've discussed numerous times, Noam, is alcohol a truth theorem, or does it make you say things you would never say? And, you know, I think that's kind of an interesting discussion in and of itself, but people say that, well, you're saying what you really mean. I never necessarily believe that. I think thoughts cross your mind, some of which you agree with, some of which you don't agree with, but they enter your head. And you might say them under the influence of alcohol, but that may not necessarily represent what you really mean. I don't know, but this particular...

Definitely makes you sleep with women you never would sleep with. It's very true. It's pretty clear. So by analogy, I guess it could make you say things that you would never... I don't know. You probably don't even get drunk, do you, Olingon? I don't really get drunk. I had a feeling.

No, I... My theory on the alcohol is that just like any other drug, everybody reacts to them differently. And some, I mean, I've just known people close to me.

They have personality change on alcohol. And it's not truth serum. Although, yes, sometimes you will say things. You will let your guard down

on alcohol. And it will be truth serum. I think... Reduces filters. Yeah, that checkpoint isn't there anymore. But not everything that comes out of your mouth, not every nastiness, is, I think, something you're carrying around with you all the time.

I think the other way to look at it, though, is that in a regular life, if you're being totally honest with every person you dealt with, you'd never have any relationships with anyone. So maybe alcohol sort of brings all that away and you are completely honest. Robert and Keith, these are the guys who wrote the book on Geraldo.

And we're going to wrap it up soon, but maybe you want to say something about Geraldo. This is Robert Kelly. You guys were close friends. I never liked him. Overrated. And yeah, I like Eric Rivera a lot better. No.

I mean, he's the best. You know what sucks is that as I got older and as I became a father and a husband and stuff, now I listen to his stuff and it's just, it resonates so much more with me now as opposed to being some young punk from Boston coming here. Now I listen to his stuff and hear how just amazing his comedy was.

It comes on rotation every once in a while in my car and it's like, fuck. He's just amazing. I got the book in my car. I'm going to read it this weekend. All right, who am I kidding? I'm going to read it over the next three months. I'll get back to you in six months, guys. Colin will read it, and he'll tell you the gist of it.

I'm going to read it. Good, congratulations. He would have loved the Trump era, huh? The what? The Trump era. Oh, my God. He'd have so the Trump era, huh? The what? The Trump era. Oh, my God. He would have had a field day. He'd have so many great rants.

That was one of my favorite things that he would do. He would set up a joke, and then he would go on this joke rant. It was almost like a machine gun. Did you find him getting less funny as he got a little bit more bitter towards the end or more funny? Because they thought he was less funny. I actually found him more funny. I found him more funny too. I agree with you. Did Matt say that?

Angry, I thought he was funnier. Matt, did you say that? He said he was funnier when he was coming from a happy place. Greg said that. But you said, didn't you say you listened to his stuff and you thought he was funnier when he came from a happier place? He said that, but I did see a show in 2009 where it wasn't, I didn't think it was his best stuff. Yeah, that's what you said, yeah.

Still very funny, but. Yeah, very funny. All right, I got to go at the table and hang out with Colin and Keith, who we're going to have books. You guys can write books on them very soon, too. So what else? So I had, you know, I think about Geraldo a lot because the experience at his funeral where his young son, he must have been, I don't know. About seven or eight.

Seven or eight, yeah. And he's walking around dressed in a suit, you know. And he comes up and he says, did you know my daddy? In this utterly innocent way. And it was very moving to me at the time. But now I have a son about that age, you know. And I think about that, like, what if I were to drop dead? Like, I've been afraid to fly lately

because I'm afraid, you know, to leave these kids without a dad. And I think about my son just walking up to a stranger. Did you know my daddy? I can't even... Asking Dan. Did you feel that, Matt, that Greg was indifferent to life or this was completely accidental?

I think he had episodes where he had some indifference to life, but I don't think that was his default personality. So the story that I heard about the end is that apparently it was oxycodone. How do you say it? Oxycontin. That these pills, I guess it's the same drug, right? That these pills come with some sort of coating on them, which is what gives it a time release.

And what people would do is they take a razor blade and shave off the coating so that when they take it, they get the full oomph of the pill all at once. Did you hear that? That was the rumor that went around. I didn't hear that, but it makes sense.

We didn't hear those details. We know it was that drug, but we didn't hear the details of shaving or anything. You're not from Toronto. You're from deep Canada. I'm not sure why you're fascinated by this. That's an accent

from the woods. Am I right? What part of Canada are you from? I'm from Newfoundland. Ah! You can't even get there. You have to take a boat. Yeah, no, you actually have to go through the moon and come back. I'm sure the Giraldo family will be very touched

that you spent more time in his accent. I don't think it's disrespectful to have a conversation that encompasses a wide variety of things. Thanks for saying I'm from the woods, though. I really appreciate that. But New Orleans is kind of woodsy, I think. St. John's might have a McDonald's. Anyway, so we have to wrap it up.

So do you expect good sales from this book? Do you expect maybe to – No, I'm like – because it's a lot of work to write a book. And it's two of you. And it's not like writing a book on a household name. Carrie L wrote a book about blowjobs. She wrote the book on blowjobs. It's not like he's a household name that you expect.

But it took a couple years out of your life. Almost five years, yeah. Right, so what's the calculus there? Primarily to preserve his legacy. To me, he was like the Kurt Cobain of stand-up. That's a good way to put it. And it seemed wrong that no one did this. That's terrific.

That's why we started it. And maybe, you know, this wasn't around, basically, when you started, but maybe there's some television version that can come out. It's an amazing story. Send me an email. We'll talk. We know that you're a big fan, but we don't know much about Wayne's involvement. How did

you guys find each other? Through Kickstarter. So Matt had a Kickstarter. Sorry, where's your accent from? I'm from southern India. No, Matt had a Kickstarter campaign where he was trying to raise funds to, you know, you need money to sort of put this together. And I came across that, contributed to the campaign.

You're the money man. No, no, no, no. We got to know each other and Matt said would you like to... If you contribute the most, you get to co-author the book. That was the agreement we had. Were you a fan of Geraldo's or just sort of a... Oh, no, huge fan. Yeah, yeah, this is why.

I guess that makes sense. Anyway, knowing you have nothing more to say... If you ever do manage to sell it to a documentary or whatever it is, we have tons and tons of footage of him. It's not high-quality footage, but it's archival footage from every aspect, every period in his career. That would be fantastic.

We could put that letter in, too. Marianne would have to approve that. I've got a better idea. Adapt it maybe as a Netflix series. Crashing is no longer. Maybe HBO has an interest. All right, gentlemen, we're going to let you guys.

We have another guest stacked up behind you. But hang out. I'm going to get out a little while and we're going to shoot the shit. Well, you guys are welcome to order food. Let's bring Nicky over. But should we say how you can get the book? Thank you very much. One more time, how you can get the book.

Oh, Amazon. And it's at QED and Astoria. And you can check out GregGiraldoBook.com, or on all the social media handles, it's at GregGiraldoBook. He's extremely handsome. It's a handsome picture on the— He was ruggedly good-looking. He was not a pretty guy like, say, a Matt Broussard.

Very pretty guy, yes. Matt Broussard is pretty. Greg was ruggedly handsome. That's what the girls said, as I recall. This is just a... Like you and Noam. Well, Noam and I have our own, I suppose, thing going. This is...

If you like nerdy, you know. This is just this thing of a guy who literally had everything that anybody could want and still wasn't happy, you know? Anyway. So on that note, buy several copies. Thank you, Matthew. Try the burgers. We'll leave you with these last

thoughts. Let's face it, it's not easy to have relationships these days because there's too much outside pressure, there's too much sexual stimulation, there's too much shit going on you know all this internet porn there's porn everywhere and they go well internet porn is is ruining marriages you know I don't know if it's ruined my marriage but it's definitely destroyed my keyboard and there's there's too much sexual pressure on us as men you walk around in a constant

state of aggravation women can't even relate to that. You don't understand what it's like to be constantly visually tortured. I mean, look, when's the last time any woman in here has ever even considered masturbating to a mannequin in a department store, all right? You don't even imagine. That would never turn you on. I saw a salesgirl pulling panties off a mannequin.

It was the hottest thing I'd ever seen in my life. The hottest thing I'd ever seen in my life the hottest thing i'd ever seen in my life just she was just doing her job just pulling the panties off it didn't even occur to her that she was doing anything erotic she's just pulling panties off a mannequin i could barely use every strength of power not to just rub it out right there in the middle of the pulling panties off a mannequin And it wasn't even a full mannequin It was like a torso mannequin It had no arms, no legs And the jeans How much lower are these jeans gonna go It's just fucking craziness

They're cut mid-vagina You see these girls walk around in clit-huggers You're literally They're like clit-hugger jeans You see them in a store like Mayor, do these jeans make my clit look faters. You're literally, they're like clit hugger jeans, you know? You see them in a store like, man, do these jeans make my clit look fat? I got a really big date.

I need my clit to look really, really good. Is that too much clit? Or I... You know, the gyms, they got those leg contraptions, that machine. You're like, fuck,

you're not supposed to be turned on by that, you know? I was in the gym a while back and this girl's like, hey, do I know you from someplace? You know what? You might, but can we talk after you're done with the twat spreader?

Because, you know, it's a little distracting. I do about four pushups a year. I'm having a hard enough time not passing out without speaking directly into your gaping vagina. And the cleavage. I was in Vegas, I saw this woman, she had glitter on her chest, glitter, and she catches me glancing over. I'm not even trying to look, I just want to see. I know. The cleavage. I was in Vegas. I saw this woman.

She had glitter on her chest. Glitter. And she catches me glancing over. I'm not even trying to look. I just kind of glance over. She's like, ha ha. You put shiny shit on your tits. What did you think was going to happen?

Were you hoping to divert attention? Was that a diversionary tactic, you know? Why don't you hire a marching band to walk around you with neon titty signs what are you looking at what are you looking at what is your problem what is your problem pervert look me in the eye look me in the eye this friend of mine told me, she goes, I dress this way to attract a guy, but I want to attract the right guy.

I don't want to attract every slob on the street. Well, that's how cleavage works. It's not a smart bomb. It's not a laser-guided weapon. You might hit your target. There's also going to be a lot of collateral damage. That's just the way it goes. You might hit the guy in the Porsche.

You're also going to hit the guy with one tooth whacking off on the bus, and you really gotta accept it. You gotta just be happy you have that kind of power over men. There's nothing I can do to have that power over women. I can't walk around with my balls all pressed together. Hello, girls, hello! Hello! You know, a little glitter.

Hey! I'm up here. Was I speeding, officer? Thank you very much, everybody. Take it easy. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thanks a lot Okay so Here's Nikki Sixx everybody

Nikki Jaxx Nikki Sixx was from Motley Crue Scale of Emotional topics on this show. We went from Greg Giraldo to an even more emotional topic for me. I'm going to introduce this next guest. This is the first time I've ever called her by the name Nikki. DJ Nikki Jaxx has a long and successful career in AV design build.

She engineers, designs, and produces for a wide range of clients, including many of this year's... None of this is why she's a guest here. Nobody gives a shit if she does AV design. Excuse me. Maybe she would like that noted, though. Let me tell you a story. I asked her for her

bio. So years ago, when I first started the Cafe Wah, this young kid came in and we were playing and he had tap shoes. And he came through the Cafe Wah and he started tap dancing. He was basically living on the street. It actually started before that. I was tap dancing in front of the Blue Note and you were walking with Rosalind. And I said, come down.

That's right. And I were walking with Rosalind. And I said, come down. That's right. And we came down and we started performing. So, and then, you know, and I regarded him as kind of like a lovable weirdo. I don't know. Like a street urchin. Yeah, one of these, there were a lot of village types like that in those days. And then we needed some work done. I needed to build a patch bay for

microphones in the curtain behind the stage. And he says, I can do that. No, no, no. First was the light switch. First I had a light fixture hanging in my apartment. Anyway, and he did that job and he did it really well and he did the sheet rocking, whatever it is.

He had all these skills. And then he did this he did the sheet rocking, whatever it is. He had all these skills. And then he did this, he had some electronics talent or whatever it is. And then in a very short while, Michael Greer became part of the real fabric, the inner circle of the Cafe Wa for years and years and years. Thank you. And then I was godfather to his daughter. He moved. He went to... He was general manager of Guitar Center. He was married with kids

a whole life. No indication to anybody. He was banging Irene Cara. Oh, shh. I mean, there was no indication. And that's when she was Irene Cara. Yeah. Not when she was Irene Cara. Yeah.

Not when she was. We want to keep that in now? Yeah, why not? True. Well, we should mention that we have no, this is his claim, and I believe it. Just shut up, Dan. I'm just saying for legal reasons. So.

I should be fine. Hopefully she's listening to this and she can reach out I'd love to connect with her again so and then then he went to Florida then he came back but anyway

there was no hint at any time of any kind of thing other than this was a dude who liked to go out and pick up girls and bang chicks I remember he

he had some sexual move with a mango pit I remember he was talking about one time I mean this was a man's man. And then he came back to work. I mean, I fast forward,

and then all of a sudden, I hear that he's... While we're building a comedy cellar in Vegas. I heard that she has gender dysphoria and is transitioning to become a woman. True story. Yeah, and now, she's in front of me.

And so this is what I think about this conversation. People get in so much trouble talking about this stuff that the questions never get asked. And people really don't know what to make of this. However, I'm going to trust that my relationship with Nikki is so secure and intimate and close that I don't think any question I could ask could offend her. I am completely prepared to answer your questions. After knowing you now for 30 years, almost exactly, I prepared for the flow of what this conversation could be.

So go ahead. Shoot. Do your best. So my first question is... And it's another reason why I wanted to get on here, because I'm happy to talk about this. I think I'm one of the few rational voices out of my community, out of my spectrum. Well, you people can't... No. Anyway.

So my first question is this. Did you wonder what my reaction would be? Oh, my, enormously. And what did you think my reaction was going to be? I don't know. I was very scared that you would not be accepting, that you would have a problem with this. I mean, not that I thought that you were

prejudiced in any particular way, but again, because we have such a long history that I thought it might be jarring. It is jarring. Sure, no, I assume. You know what? Even having gone through what you went through, if I showed up tomorrow as a woman,

it would jar you. Well, you know what? Maybe, maybe not. I think it would. woman, it would jar you. Well, you know what? Maybe, maybe not. I think it would. I think it would be fun. I know. Take your dancing. Jarring is not the opposite of fun.

No, just to see somebody as a woman in a dress. Hold on. But I look good, right? You look great. Thank you very much. I mean, obviously that's jarring. But anyway, go ahead. So you never, yeah, I never had yeah, I never uttered any anti-trans remarks to you or anything, did I?

No, no, no. You can say so. No, no, not prior. And actually, again, to state for the record, you have been enormously... Sound. It's all right. He's all right. No, no, no.

You've been enormously supportive. Very much from the very beginning. Suspiciously supportive. Suspiciously supportive. Hey. Well, I knew somehow it would lead to a good podcast. No, it's... And you've been at the forefront of making sure,

I think, that I'm very comfortable. I mean, it's... I felt an enormous amount of love out of both you and out of Juanita, and you guys operated it in a way to ensure that I felt comfortable behind the scenes that I didn't even know about. So let me tell that story. So there was a gay, he's going to get mad at me whatever there's a gay bartender who works for me who basically

I felt outed Michael at a time when he I think he still was when he was straddling between both worlds

right and somehow got wind of the fact that he was now Nikki she was now whatever

that Nikki Jaxx was now the artist formerly known as Michael wind of the fact that he was now Nikki... She was now... Whatever. That Nikki Jaxx was now a... The artist formerly known as Michael was now Nikki Jaxx and DJing and he contacted you on Instagram in some

way and tagged a bunch of people. And somehow it all got out. And of course, it all went around. In a heartbeat. Nothing travels faster in the speed of light than gossip. And I, now I had suspected, and I don't want to go back to that, but I had already suspected that something along these lines was going on. I wasn't sure, but I knew something was up with you.

But anyway, I lost my fucking shit at this guy. And I accused him of being seduced by the gossip value and hurting my friend. And Juanita really lost his shit. And he, by the way, he's since apologized. And I don't know what really happened. And I know you have no beef with him. No, no, not at all. I mean, it happened a little bit early. But then again, it's mi falta.

Because I was public. I was trying to explore coming out and trying to push myself over that edge. And he said, I was just trying to help him. I said, well, then you should have contacted him privately, because obviously, in my mind, obviously, he didn't want this public, because

if he wanted it public, he would have made it public. You would have cordoned off an alternate identity which you thought you had a Chinese wall around. Can you still say Chinese wall? You had a firewall around it and you thought that the two could somehow separate.

So, of course, he, and this is where I really got mad, he says, don't tell me as a gay man that I blah blah blah blah blah. And I lost my shit. He says, don't tell me as a gay man that I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I lost my shit. I said, don't play the card that you're gay. It's too easy to go to. Yeah, why don't you explain to me what I'm missing here?

Because all I know is that my friend Michael had this life and he was trying to keep it a secret and now everybody knows about it and that is because of what you did. This has nothing to do with being gay or straight. So I guess that's what you're referring to, that you heard that I got so mad. And I never mentioned to you even that I knew about it.

Until way after the fact, which I think is... I didn't want to embarrass you. Well, it's very chivalric of you. Nicky, the other day I saw you here for the first time as Nicky Jaxx. Correct. And you just said to me, hey, Dan. Did you say, hey, girl? Did you forget that you're now Nicky Jaxx?

I mean, in other words, you just went up to me and said, hey, Dan. Now, I happen to have heard that you are now Nicky Jaxx. But even then, it took me a second to know who you were. Well, okay, so I don't think I've come to grips with the fact of how much I look different, maybe, right? I mean, I still think that I'm easily identifiable, especially if you know me. Michael, my old friend has tits now, okay? And they're real. My friend has tits.

Well, it took me a second or two to process who you were. Well, I apologize for that. No apology necessary. I'm just wondering if you realized that you're a different person now. No, you know, so to talk about transgender issues, you know, there's some people whose transgender identity is like first and foremost, and they wave it like a flag, right? For me, it's, I've had to really think about it and process it and make sure that it's secondary to who I am. You know, I think of myself really in terms of my career, my work, you know, what I'm able to provide and my sexual identity should be second. It's not like you walk

around thinking, you know, walk up to everybody and say, I'm a straight man. I'm a straight person. Well, I've worked for many, many years with many different people in the trans world and LGBT world. Stop showing off.

No, no. I think it's important. I think it's important. But Alingon went to Harvard. That's fucking relevant. And I've heard a lot of trans people Why are you lashing out at him? What?

It was relevant. Have you learned any of those real authentic female qualities that she just exhibited yet, Michael? I'm in school right now. Are you lashing out at me emotionally? I have heard a lot of trans people articulate that they've always felt this way. I mean, this is to Dan's point. So it's really everybody around them who's sort of surprised

or catching up. Let's start there. You told me you didn't always feel this way. You know, I didn't realize that I had this... I didn't realize what I had was actually gender dysphoria, that I

had all these tendencies until I started to look back and I started to realize, oh my goodness, actually I really did. I had all these tendencies until I started to look back and I started to realize, oh my goodness, actually I really did. I had all these markers. Give me an example of some of the markers. Anal sex. We can go straight there. I always enjoyed it.

With a dude? Never with a dude until I started to transition. So what was the marker? You like penetrating a woman in the anus? That's not a marker. And receiving. Receiving what? That's not a marker. And receiving. Receiving what? With like a...

They call that pegging. Yeah, well, yes. Pegging. But, you know, I enjoyed receiving anal sex using any number of instruments or anything that vibrated. But aren't we talking about two different things? We're talking about your gender identity. Okay. And we're talking about your sexuality.

Let him explain. Let her. You know, Michael, Nikki. First of all, you should go by Mickey. I told you, Mickey. But I'm not going to get it right. It's impossible. Okay. Unless I hesitate in speaking, it's not going to come

to me, Nikki, on the tip of my tongue. Okay, so that's another part of one of the things. And you know it's not in disrespect. No, no, no, not at all. And it's one of the things I like to discuss and I like to explain to people because this whole pronoun thing is like a big thing, right? But for some reason, for me, it's not. And I think it's because I realize that other people need to process this. I can't expect that other people will be able to easily change gears and call me.

Look, we had a mutual friend, Peter Quigley. Right. It took me six years to start calling him Raj. Oh, yeah, right. And that was hard enough. No.

And that was another man's name. No, yeah. Why don't you get like a verbal... Well, I think Cassius Clay said it best. I think Cassius Clay said it best. That's a joke

because he changed his name. No, he changed his name to Muhammad Ali and I still can't get it. Lual Cinder. So, wait, wait, wait, wait. Just hold on. Let's just train a thought here. But I'm not big on gender pronouns.

I mean, you can, if you screw up, I don't care. We're jumping all over. So, you liked penetrating in the ass. Now, I don't know that that's a marker of any kind of gender dysphoria. A lot of guys like that. That's the first one that I thought of. The second one was... Did you prefer that it was shaped as a penis as opposed to just a finger?

Was there something about having it look male which excited you? Yes. Okay. And also, not that it looked like a penis, but rather that it felt like a penis. Right? So, then there's also women's clothing. Right? Always enjoyed wearing women's clothing underneath an exterior of blue jeans and more male.

While you were working for me down there, you were wearing ladies' panties. I had a whole suitcase. Is that true? Yes. So how could you not have known you had, because you know what? This like really wasn't an option, right? You didn't see it.

You didn't even know that you could. No, but when I first saw her in Vegas, I said, did you always feel this way? You're like, no, I didn't. Did you forget that you were wearing those panties? Okay, so it's all part of a transition process, right? It's also starting to go back and say, oh, wearing women's clothes. Maybe you just didn't want to tell me you always felt that way.

No, no, no. Well, you know what? I think it's, I keep, like every day I discover something new about my. Like when you think back to when you were little. Right. Like in the third grade, I used to wear my mother's camisoles to school.

And I kind of suppressed that memory, and then recently I started remembering. Yeah, that's absolutely... When you were operating as a straight dude, you had genuine lust for women. Yes. But sexual desire has nothing to do with gender identity.

We all know this. You're showing off. No, I'm not. You just said you had... You know, you're really upsetting me. Let me spell my point out, but I'm sure the listeners already understood. He's talking about getting turned on

by having sex... by imagining he's being penetrated by a man. Right. So I'm asking him a natural question, but you also at the same time had a genuine attraction for the women you were going out with. Yes. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

So you call that you were bisexual in a way. Yeah, well, I guess maybe. I mean, not really I don't think because it's not like I ever really explored being with a man Beforehand So I can't say that you would actually say that But now Do you still, if you see a hot woman

Do you lust after her like you used to? No I do not So how did that change? I'll say that, you know, I'm really not certain. In some ways, maybe it was pornography, right? You could talk to a lot of trans women

who would talk about, and I felt the same way too, that I'd watch pornography and I always wanted to be the woman. I felt the same way too that I'd watch pornography and I always wanted to be the woman I always wanted to be in that position and pornography has been around for now for decades and decades so I think possibly that helped me along I really started I don't know really when I started to lose interest in women now like when I see a to, I don't know really when I started to lose interest in women. Now, like when I see a beautiful woman, I absolutely admire her,

but I really don't think sexual thoughts. I always think I'm so jealous of her hips and her natural curves and how she feels out of dress and where did she get the dress? It doesn't come in my size. So then the flip side is, the flip side is, years ago, were you lusting after men in the way that you now can lust after them? So, now, that's a great question.

Now, you know I was a dancer, right? I've said this before. I started out as a dancer. I always had a body image, and now I look back, I realize I always wanted that body image of being a female, and watching male dancers. I always preferred to watch male dancers. I think I always found something really attractive about them. I think it was the combination of the power, their lines.

And I can't at the time say that it was lust. Okay, what I'm trying to get at is that at a very early age, I can remember watching Captain Kirk make out with a hot alien. And then if I would masturbate, it wasn't a toss-up which character I would masturbate about. It was deep within me. It was the hot alien chick

that I was thinking about. Even though Captain Kirk was clearly a very attractive man. Right. With or without the garter. And that wasn't created in me. It wasn't socialized into me. It was always, always there. What you're describing is a change. It was women that you would close your eyes and think about sexually.

I'm asking you. And then at some point it stopped being women and it became men. No, yes. And then at some point it stopped being women and it became men. No, well, yes. And it was never both. I think when I was younger, I think I had those urges and I repressed them. Did you have a family that would have disapproved of that kind of thing? Your mother wouldn't have. Your mother's't have.

Your mother's pretty easy going. No, I think you're right. I think my mother and my father would probably have been okay. I mean, they were very supportive of me being in the dance world. It's not the same thing, but yeah, go ahead. There was a lot of gays.

Yeah, but I mean, too. But like, nowhere in the spectrum of my life would they have thought that I would be transitioning, that I had some deep-seated gender dysphoria. I always felt, and I also always felt going back and now I look at it, is like actively trying to adopt the role of a male dude, right? Yeah, you would take pictures looking like Jimmy Dean James Dean

and I would like read I would like force myself to read sports that I really didn't care about just so I could

talk with the guys well I've done that I mean I never cared about baseball but you had to with that you know but you understand I mean you understand

I like baseball too and sometimes I enjoy the stats but it's like no I never enjoyed the stats but this is not like... No, I never enjoy the stats. But this is not like in any way... I have a hard time sitting down and watching sports, but I always felt that it was like a costume I had to wear. I always thought like wearing the leather jackets

and wearing the ripped jeans and the boots, and you had to act tough. I felt that was an act that i had to put on i thought that was a i realized now when i look back it was a gender role in some ways in the way in which i have to adopt a certain look right now to be in my current gender role it's what you seem to be you know i discussed this with perry out before the show you're not when i think of of transgenders and and what we see on TV, and for example, that young lady that has a show on the Learning Channel, what's her name?

Jazz Jennings. Jazz Jennings. She's awesome. Somebody that from day one, it was clear there was no ambiguity. You survived your childhood as a boy in a way that I don't know that Jazz Jennings could have. And I hear a lot of transgender people saying they're just, they look at them and they're horrified.

They cannot spend a day in this male body. You spent 30 years in a male body. 50. 50 years in a male body. And correct me if I'm wrong, you functioned okay, or maybe you didn't. But it seems like you're not, it seems like there might be a continuum of of levels of dysphoria oh absolutely absolutely in fact there's like sort of a whole group of

us that have transition transition much later in life um you know where we've gone through and we've all like raised like had lives where we raised children and we had families and built a career. But then we started to realize that we were living a life that really wasn't what we wanted. And it's very easy to fall into that because our gender roles are programmed for us. It's hard for me to even explain it being on the other side now, seeing what I see. I could see somebody living a particular path

only because that gender role has been laid out for them without them actually thinking about what they really want to do. At what age do you think someone can either realize or make that decision? I think any time. So if it's a four-year-old

who has been a boy and then he's like, I feel like I'm a girl, would you start addressing him as her? Like, how would you? I think as soon as children are young enough to understand that they have, having friends. Don't let the actual transgender person answer. No, no, no. Nobody cares what your opinion is on it. It's not my opinion. I have friends who have kids

who are trans. And as soon as they're all good... Well, if they can come on the podcast, we can discuss it with them. Well, they're not... Nikki can only speak for Nikki's experience, of course. But I think that that question actually presumes

that there's something wrong with being trans or being wrong with a specific gender role. And so to allow them to go to the dark side, go to the other gender, there's something inherently wrong with that. And so should we allow them? I think no, that they should adopt whatever gender role they naturally gravitate to.

And I think as time goes on and we as a society continue to grow and develop, evolve perhaps, right? That clear-cut gender roles will actually start to go away. In the same way in which

clear-cut racial distinctions will start to go away. I don't think so. With regard to racial or with regard to gender? Hopefully racial will go away as we intermarry and intermix. I think that there is a place for

understanding where the polar sides of gender are. The social construct, though. Absolutely. 100%. I agree with that. It? The social construct, though. Absolutely. 100%. And I agree with that. It is a social construct. I think there's some physical reasons.

And I think that there's some actual biological reasons that say males do this, women, females do this. Can I tell you about Perrielle? This is one thing that bothers me. One thing? We could be here all night. And by abstraction, it bothers me about a lot of people. Yeah, maybe it's a social construct.

I don't know. But I just won't just repeat it because I heard it on NPR. You know, I mean, I have... Are you saying that I'm doing that? I'm saying that all of us have lived and have kids and lived in our particular bodies and gender. And we certainly have some intuition that some of what makes my son want to be a superhero and my daughter have no interest in being a superhero. Some of what makes my kid running around fighting and doing judo and my daughter saying, Manny, I don't want...

Right. Is not just a social construct. And by the way, if it's a social construct, then why is it then when we see a young boy acting female, why do we assume that it's inborn? Well, do you want me to really answer that? Do you actually want me to answer that? Let me just spin it out.

So if you see an adult, they'll say no, the reason she's acting like a total woman or a cliche woman is because she's been socialized that way. Fair enough. Then how come when we see a four-year-old boy acting like a little girl we say, stop everything. We have a transgender here.

We don't say that. So obviously they weren't socialized to behave. Then what does a social construct mean? A social construct means that there are certain things that are known as traditionally male that aren't necessarily male. They don't have to be male roles. Males on the farm, they chew tobacco. Exactly. There are some things. There are a lot of things.

What are you referring to? Give me some details. First of all, I'm trying to. And second of all, Nikki started to. I mean, there are a lot of things. Like, if your daughter suddenly wanted to be a superhero, that doesn't mean that she's transgender nobody's a uh so i can't thank you no so um all right so i can go actually talk

really about like really where my experience has been in terms of like looking at that as a as an issue because i had to you know there's a large part of being of the transgender community with like the cross-dressers and such. That's really, it's a fetish versus an internal identity. And that's something that, you know, some of the, let's say the cross-dressers, the CD community, they do it just for the sexual stimulation, right?

They wear the nylons because of the sexual stimulation. They wear the footwear. It never really internalizes. Can I just say something? I think it's because they feel they're doing something wrong. This is the thing about the social construct thing that I can't wrap my mind around. I'm not saying it's not a social construct.

I'm saying I don't understand what anybody means when they say it. Because here is Nikki becoming a woman and now adopting. Blossoming. What's that? Blossoming. Blossoming. And now adopting many of these female, these feminine characteristics. But if it's a social construct,

why can't she become a woman and still be every bit as manly as she was before? She can. But that's not the way it seems to work because what it seems to be more likely is that whatever is going on with her wiring of her brain,

she is actually becoming a woman, feeling like a woman, and all those social constructs are coming naturally to her, not because they're social constructs, because they're natural to being a woman. Well, okay, now that's also what I was talking about. Part of it is biological, right? There is a chunk of it that is biological.

There's two elements to it, right? It doesn't exist totally in a vacuum. So, you know, there's physicality. There's choices of speech. There's having to smile all the time. There's crying like a bitch. Are you crying more now? Yes.

Well, I do too, so don't worry about it. And I like it in the ass, so we may have to talk. I think my shoes will fit. No, so in terms of my biology, in terms of my biology, I mean, part of that is

part of that is the estrogen, the things that I'm taking to physically change me. It changes the way you're thinking, right? Oh, yeah. The estrogen. It changes my wiring. It releases.

This is my point. And that's not a social construct. That's biology. They're not mutually exclusive. Well, I'm not saying mutually exclusive, but all the important part is in the biology. No, because another part of it is like mannerisms, right? Like I don't necessarily have to always sound like a chola from the Bronx, like hey. But that's something I choose because that's a social construct.

Yes, that may be a social construct. I'll give you that much. But like the emotional aspect of it, the changes in my emotion, the changing in... Listen, I got to tell you something. I'm not saying that nothing is social, nothing is socialized, and that everything is nature. But when somebody says gender is a social construct,

the subtext of that statement, which I hear over and over, is not that social construct is just one aspect of gender, but it is a and over, is not that social construct is just one aspect of gender. Okay. But it is a definitive statement. Gender is a social construct, meaning biology is not here.

Of course that's what I mean. That's plain English. No, but I think you actually have to change that phrase. I think the phrase is wrong. When people say gender is a social construct, I think that that's wrong. I agree with you that's wrong. But gender roles are definitely a social construct. Gender roles have a social component to them. That's right. you that's wrong But gender roles Are definitely a social construct Gender roles have a social component to them

That's right And that's where If people are missaying the statement On the other hand Every animal in the animal kingdom Has roles for the female and male of its species And it's outlandish to think That humans don't as well

There are many animals that switch sexes. There's frogs that switch sexes on a dime. They may switch sexes. They do it all the time. But they are... Well, if they are switching, it's not because of the frog community. There are... The green...

Even the green flag. That's biological. The switching is biological, in other words. Yes, it's all biological. You're right. It defies logic to think that the member of the species which has to give birth

and then feed the child for the first five years of its life, or four years of its life, whatever it was, in nature, that that didn't also come with a whole bouquet of instincts and habits which were designed that the male of the species might have gotten a different bouquet of things because he had to go out and whatever it is.

A hundred percent. Right. And these differences in nature, the things that you're feeling taking estrogen, translate in certain ways that we can't predict. But this is way, I wanted to have a personal conversation here, and dragged into this PC thing. This is where it goes, this is where these conversations always go.

It's so, and I find it kind of uninteresting. So, this is what I want to ask. You were, you were. Hey. Steve, that's outside Steve. He's got it. You were. He's cute.

No, let him stay. Oh, my God. Superman. You were, you were kind of at rock bottom when this all hit. Yeah. In a few, in many ways. Yeah, and both in your relationship with me at work and I don't know what I can and can't say.

We can always cut it out. But your home life and struggling and feeling inadequate in terms of having trouble supporting your family the way you would like to and holding your head up high in a sense. And at that same time is when you

seem to find this gender dysphoria an overwhelming urge. I never actually put those two together, that particular timing. So let me just finish. And I privately

have worried and wondered whether there's some relationship, whether this is somehow correlates to some sort of breakdown. I don't know what the word is, but just like a collapse of all

you know, it just all came down on you. And you collapsed in a certain way and then went to this because it was always there and it makes you happy and trying to regain yourself in some ways. I have no idea if that's true. It's something I'm privately worried about. You know, that's an amazingly insightful statement. And I've, this is my first time putting that together. You're right. There was a time when,

and I look back on it as being like the cauldron, and I think I started to have to shed a lot. I think about it in terms of just shedding a lot of things, like getting rid of excess baggage and trying to figure out what's really, really important. I do think it's actually curious that this started to happen at the same time. I actually think that that might have forced me. I mean, it took me a long time to get to that point, right?

We were talking about where I was in the crucible. And this might have it might have been a trigger but I don't think it was the reason that I started to transition I thought it was

I think it's what happened is I got to that point where I had to make some sort of deep deep revelation

about myself come to an epiphany and that epiphany was like wait a second I am going down a very curious I'm going down a very curious I'm going down

a road that I shouldn't have been Alingon has to leave to do a set oh no no no no he has to do a set he's working go go go make some money

go ahead not a lot not much go kill him go ahead handsome boy go ahead Nicky go ahead

so now on the I will say that coming out of it this is been really amazing at how much my life has changed for the positive since I've done this, right? Since I've gone down this path. How many doors have opened up? How many, you know, and I'm always thinking in terms of business because that's what I do I've been lining up new clients

I've been opening, like right now especially for this month one of the reasons I wanted to come on because it coincides with World Pride June Pride here in New York I'm inundated with work and acceptance. So a combination of a lot of personal acceptance

from everybody that I've revealed this to, from this whole community, from you and your family, and the entire comedy seller, Village Underground, Fat Black Music Head community, from at work, and from my clients. It's been unbelievable at how easy it was. It's an easy path for me to go down.

And I think I'm way more successful now than I've ever been in terms of what I'm doing. So if you had moved up, if you had continued to move up the ladder in Guitar Center and now you went from GM of the store to one of the district managers, whatever it is am I correct in saying that you might never have

you might still be just Michael Greer no, I think I actually would have you think you would have? yeah, because curiously I think there was a a moment I remember this moment it wasn't with Guitar Center it was when I was working for another company There was a moment. I remember this moment.

It wasn't with Guitar Center. It was when I was working for another company in music brands. I was acting as a product specialist. We were traveling around, and I was with a whole group of guys. And they were all heavyset, middle-aged. And I remember I was in a hotel room, conference room in Rhode Island and I looked around and I was like, I don't want to be any of you. And afterwards like, hey, let's all go have a drink. Let's go eat. And I'm like, no. And I remember specifically that moment, I didn't have any workout clothes or anything. I went right to the gym right after the, and I started working out,

and I put myself on a weight loss program, and I started looking at my physical, and that actually was the lead-in to, as my body started to reveal itself, I started to realize more and more how much I was adopting a more feminine physique, and different things were changing inside me as well. But that moment, I was surrounded by a bunch of men that I'd known for years

that came actually out of that rock and roll community, and I know that specific moment, sitting in the hotel room going, I don't want to look or be any of you. And that would have happened if I was working for a guitarist. Well, that would happen,

but would you have actually... See, but when you were at the low point that I described, it gave you a certain freedom in my mind to do this, that I don't know if you would have had if it would have meant disrupting a professional life with all the things that were depending on it, all the bills, all the rents. You know, freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Right. Right, right, right, right, right. Exactly. I got nothing to lose, honey. We can go anywhere from here. But I want to bring it. And again, I can cut it out if you want. But you said something to me which actually troubled me.

It didn't trouble me, but it was whatever it was. I asked you when you saw your dick, when you see your penis now, do you want it gone? Yes. You said yes. When did that happen? You didn't used to feel that way. No. when did that happen? you didn't used to feel that way no I think probably about 4 years ago is when I started to

be really annoyed with it you were already decided by that point that you were going to transition what came first? the rejection of your that came afterwards I think the wanting to get your of the way you looked that came afterwards I think the the wanting to get rid of the

penis came afterwards I think I started to want to transition because I wanted to I've always worshipped the female form I always thought that I should have had a female form like this I know from having been a dancer I've never

happy with the way I looked when you know when I look myself in the mirror as a dancer right you're very exposed physically never happy with the way I looked. When I look at myself in the mirror as a dancer, you're very exposed physically. Never happy with it. And then when I started to actually really work myself in a specific way that didn't have a lot of bulk, trying to reduce the bulk up top and waist. I started to develop a body image that I preferred. And then I started to be really irritated with my penis for a couple of reasons,

one of which is because it's a horrible look, at least I think for me. If you were a little bit bigger, you might not be so sad about it. You know what, honey? Let me tell you something. We all agree. I got to tell you something about my community.

There was an enormous number of boys, straight men, that really do enjoy the fact that I still have a fully functioning stick shift. You call them straight. I call them bent. Whatever they are, there are men that like that. We can all agree, I think. I think most of us can agree that the penis is ridiculous looking. Yes. And that a female body is more pleasing aesthetically.

Right. Venus on the half-shot. I think everybody's in accord. Even most men. Obviously, from that to wanting your penis gone is a big, big, big difference. But I agree with you. Penis is a bizarre looking thing. It's a big, big, big difference. But I agree with you. Penis is a bizarre looking thing. It's a weird, absolutely weird looking thing.

The other thing that, the reason why I would like it gone is because it was, not as much anymore, but it was always really annoying and wanting to like make its presence known. And I think you can't appreciate that until you don't have one or until it's not doing that anymore. So, Michael, living a tough life with estrogen makes me go, oh, my God, thank God. That's like I don't wake up with a woody. It's like every other thought is not about, like, you know. Well, that can be annoying.

It's an idiot. You know, Eddie Murphy had a joke about, you know, he couldn't go to the blackboard because he was in an aroused state. Right. And he said, I'll take the zero. So, so, Nicky, and then I want to also about the hormone stuff you're doing and then about your family. But so where do you come down on what is gender dysphoria? Is it like, you know, I understand, I can understand being gay.

It's like they're just like I am except the object of their attraction is the same sex. So it's like just a one-for-one switch out. But what you're describing or what I see is something I can identify with where I'm told that there's a perfectly natural and normal type of human that would mutilate themselves, that looks in the mirror and wants to see. And I know people who move their breasts and all these things. And this is where it gets tricky to talk about because you know this, but the listeners might know. Like, I want, everybody ought to want anybody to be happy.

Right. And the, whatever the word is, the origin of this and how you would classify it is nothing to do with how you think somebody should be treated. To me, one has nothing to do with the other. But I wonder if you are confident that this is perfectly normal in the way that being gay is normal or do you have any fear that this is somehow a PTSD from a

traumatic thing? How do you see it? No. Okay, so I mean, for me personally or in general? For you specifically because you don't have this pattern of this, like a young boy who was clearly from birth, you know. Adopting effeminate roles.

Who just seemed to be in the wrong body, you know. Again, I think it's because I did repress it. I always felt very slight, right? But, you know, your question about... I mean, it is quite a lot to say that there are people who are born who

want to mutilate themselves. You know, would like to see their... The things that make them look like a particular sex want to see them cut off. It's upsetting. It would be upsetting for her. But I think that a lot of trans people would say that they don't see it like that,

that they feel like they've been born into the wrong body. And that's what I understood you saying as well, Nikki, that you said even from a very young age, you maybe, when you talk about jazz, like she had references. Right. You don't see, like you didn't see that 50 years ago.

There was no way. It didn't exist. It wasn't a possibility. So I, you know, I, I, I, some, in some aspects of my life, I was able to repress the, that tendency, right? That aspect of my personality in other ways I didn't you know I go right into being a dancer it's always even even that choice might be might be an indication that you were drawn to that world yeah I've

always been very artistic I've always been very flamboyant in that world where... Yeah, I've always been very artistic. I've always... Well, men are very flamboyant in that world. Right, right, right. And not much judgmental about... Not much judgment going on about sexuality and stuff like that. I know 100%. I always felt in terms

of like dancing, there's something very fluid about it that lends itself to being feminine, you know, and I would enjoy those dancing roles, right?

Those performance roles. So we got to wrap it up. And I just want to make clear to everybody that you're not allowed to talk about these things. Some of the questions I'm asking, you know, you're not supposed to ask these questions. I think you should. I think this is a healthy, healthy discussion.

Of course you should be able to because they're not born out of any kind of bigotry. you should. I think this is a healthy, healthy discussion. Of course you should be able to because they're not born out of any kind of bigotry. They're born out of... We have no frame of reference. Yeah, someone who wants to understand and also someone who doesn't want to just parrot

something. I mean, you know, you and I are about the same age. I mean, how many things were we fed? Scientific things, sexuality things, you know, in the 80s. Bad is bad. Anything. That they all turned out to be untrue and the opposite. You know, so it's like... Dr. Spock. I was like, you know, whatever you want to tell me about

whatever this is or whatever, you know, explain it to me and don't get mad at me for asking because I wasn't born understanding this. It's one of the... I mean, it's a quite difficult thing to understand because, like I said, I can identify with a gay guy because I know what it's like to be attracted to somebody. And so, you know, what that scares, now, at this day and age, right, you can identify with that. If you back up maybe, you know, 100 years ago, that might have been a very different story because it wasn't as... He's saying he knows

what it's like to be attracted to somebody. The thing is, when trans people talk about, I feel like a man, or I feel like a woman, it's hard for cis people to know what that is because I don't know what it's like to feel like a guy. I just feel like me.

Exactly. And I don't perceive it as feeling like a guy. I don't perceive it that way. Exactly. You're naturally... I just feel like Dan Natterman, whatever that might be. Correct. It's all man, baby.

That's how I see it. And I also, again, don't like baseball. So we're not mutually exclusive. Tell us, can we talk about your family? Sure. All right. Your family, you have not come out to your family yet? No.

Well, hopefully they won't listen to this episode. I don't think they would. But the only reason is because there's a reason why I actually started. You know, if I go back, there's many things I would have changed starting all the way back to 2009. I might have advanced this entire thing up a lot earlier. But I've been sandbagging specifically to this year because of certain timings within the family that make it correct. And you're going to tell them imminently? Yes, imminently.

Are you nervous about it? No. Are you going to present as a woman when you tell them, or are you going to, because you still dress as a dude sometimes. Yeah, I will be more male presenting when I do, you know, because it's shocking. My feeling is that if I were to just come out full force, it becomes very egocentric and becomes more about me. I always have to consider...

What about your... Do you feel that in some way, do you feel some guilt in some way that this prevented your wife from having the happy relationship that you would have wanted her to have if you had known... No. It couldn't have been good for the marriage if you were having these kind of feelings.

No, because of something that I really should keep private or a history that I should keep private, I am super confident that this happened, this decision to start transitioning happened well after other issues in the marriage made themselves apparent. I know your daughter.

I think she'll be fine with it. You think she'll be fine with it. I think she'll be ecstatic. She'll want to go shopping with me. She loves to go shopping with me. I take it a rainbow. Whenever I go to Rainbow up on like 138th Street in the Bronx, I was like,

how is your daughter? I'm like, she's got to have the family, okay, kisses, baby. But your wife

is not going to be good about this. This is not going to go down easy. No, it won't. But, you know,

part of like going through the call is realizing really what is important and sometimes you have to say... But you're separated from your wife. I'll talk to her if it would help.

I would. But you and your wife are already separated, are you not? We are living very much separate lives due to a couple of circumstances. In all effects, yes,

we are separated, but we're not divorced yet. Do you still feel any... that in any way, shape, or form, male? Because I've spoken to trans people that still say they feel on some level they wouldn't even necessarily say

that they're 100% one or the other. They're binary gender fluid, however you like it. No, I sometimes do feel myself slip, I think, through a habit into certain roles. But I'm cognizant when it's happening. And I do know that sometimes I'm more male presenting.

I mean, it's... I'll tell you what. I saw you, maybe it was two years ago, maybe it was three years ago, know him how to barbecue. You grilled the best burger that I've ever tasted. Now, if that's not a male characteristic to grill a burger, it's certainly stereotypically male characteristic.

Yes, and I will still take pride in it, although now I tend more towards softer dishes with sauces. It's a social construct right there. A lot of kale. If I, well, if Noam invites me to a barbecue, my first question is, is... Is Nicky coming? Is Nicky coming? question is, is, is, is Nikki coming? Is Nikki coming? Well, it would have been, is Michael coming? But now is, is Nikki coming? It always was.

So tell us, this is very interesting. So you have a whole natural regimen, which has allowed you to increase your estrogen. Yep. And decrease your testosterone. Yep. Without having to get prescription drugs. Correct. Tell us a little bit about that.

Okay. Well, for the listening audience, it. Tell us a little bit about that. Okay. Well, for the listening audience, it's actually, a lot of people think that it can't be done, but it actually can be. Oh, I'm looking at your titties, so clearly something. And this is about, at this point, seven, eight months? You're at Asian level. Yeah. Technically, they're B cups 34 B's so

to suppress the testosterone I use licorice root I use spearmint or peppermint

peppermint oil and reishi red mushroom and then for and how'd you learn about this

oh a massive old Asian dude in Chinatown what a good idea no I a lot of research tons of research and then you know Oh, a massive amount. Some old Asian dude in Chinatown. What a good idea. No, a lot of research. Tons of research. And then, you know, some of it anecdotal.

I really didn't, you know, you can find anything on the internet. But then there's slow, I mean, there's not a lot of clinical basis for this. I mean, there's two things at work why they tend, it can be difficult to make holistic methods work. One of them is being not a lot of research. The other one being is that when it says it's a particular supplement, it may not actually be there. How do you get the estrogen up? Soy? Tons of

thousands of milligrams of soy. Just down edamame? No, well, supplements. I take like three different soy supplements a day. Soy, flaxseed oil, and fenugreek. And fenugreek specifically helps with developing the mammary production. So part of it's like to redistribute the fat. Other parts of it to go specifically target the receptors that stimulate.

Do you have health insurance? No. If you had health insurance, could you get the stronger stuff? No, I could get it too. I could, but here's the thing. I'm a little bit older, so I'm a little bit concerned, especially after all the drinking I've been doing over these years. The effect that spironolactone will have on the liver,

in terms of hair growth or finasteride or any of these other drugs that typically they use as testosterone blockers. And then estrogen does other weird things to you as well if you're doing it too fast. To be honest, I'm very comfortable with the pace at which I'm doing it. But what's the end game? Is to have reconstructive surgery? Yeah, I mean, ultimately I get to be that way. Absolutely.

It's not the end game. Is that covered by health insurance? I can get health insurance. Is that surgery covered by? Will they cover? It's really carrier by carrier. health insurance? I can get health insurance. Is that surgery covered by... Will they cover... It's really carrier by carrier. I will say that

there's a lot more carriers now that will offer that. That's good. But for the listening audience, you should definitely check in with your service provider as to whether or not it is covered. But a lot of them do now. And if you're in New York City,

absolutely go see Callum Lord. Why am I saying that wrong? But listen, Nikki, this is what I'm getting at. What I don't understand is too harsh. You're six of one, half dozen of the other right now.

You're a woman, but when you get undressed, you're taken for a male. And it seems to me, I'm trying to imagine myself in your high heels, that the only way I would be happy is to be one or the other at this point. In other words, that until I had the reconstructive surgery, I would feel like I would just be, it would get me down. We're not getting any younger. Right. I said, I've just turned 51. Statistically

I have 25 more years left to live in this world. No, no. Women live longer. Hey! Hey! Hey! I'm hedging my bet now. No, it's a bummer.

Listen, in life we all want lots of things that we can't have necessarily right now. You know, delayed gratification. If I have to deal with this for a little bit longer, at least I can mitigate its effect. And it's not all about the penis. Penis I can get rid of. I can work around it.

I have a pretty good tuck system now. Didn't you pierce your own penis? Tony did that No, no, no He did, didn't he? Tony pierced his own penis No, that's crazy I had a belly button ring for a while

And you did that yourself? No, that one I paid for I did my earrings myself Alright, so We're going to wrap it up, I guess. God forbid we said anything that we shouldn't have said.

I don't think so. I don't think so. I'm going to have to cut some of that because I'm always... When she starts throwing up these... Oh, for the love of God. These cliches in me. They're not cliches.

They're totally cliches. Thank you for representing. Happy Pride, baby. It's more, yes, Happy Pride. They're not cliches. And you don't even really want to listen because... They are cliches. They're not cliches.

And that doesn't mean they're not true. Oh, okay. No, cliches, you know, the grass is always greener on this side. But I'm saying an apple a day... There's grass on the cliff. I just want to say something. Cliches can be true, but they're not in sight. I don't know how to explain it.

You just want to be annoyed with me. I'm going to explain it. I'm going to explain it now. Wait, can I just say something? No, no, no. Let me finish. Then you can explain it. Because it's just clarified in my head why I react that way.

Some of these cliches, like gender is a social construct, these have come into being as a way to circle the wagons around points not being able to be discussed. Right. In other words, you're having a good conversation about gender. Gender is a social

construct. And the next thing is, don't you know that, gender? And the next thing is, you're a bigot. We've seen this time and time and time and time and time and time again on Twitter, everywhere you turn. But that's not what I'm saying and that's not what I'm doing. So I react negatively to these things. Because when we're talking, when we're having a good, healthy conversation about the details of it, we don't need to bring in those sayings, which are really just a way of shutting down

the learning process of you telling me about what it's like. You would be annoyed with me if I said anything. No, no, no. I think I do understand what he's saying. No, I do too. That dropping that terminology right in, it's a hammer.

But I don't think I'm doing that. Yeah, yeah. It slows down the learning, unintentionally, from his point of view, at least on this particular topic. However, I do agree that if we get lost in the vernacular, then we sometimes miss the true meaning. We had a woman walk off the show one time because she said that, you know, rape is not about sex.

It's about power. And I said, I'm so stupid. I said, well, you know, we hear that all the time. I know that. I said, but how do we know that? Because I was like, how do we know? Because I know, like, when somebody robs somebody, we don't say it's not about money, it's about power. In other words, it's the only taking of something that somebody desires.

And we all know what it's like to be filled with lust or whatever it is. Or to be filled with greed for money or whatever it is. So if you disregard... A very male construct. to whatever it is or to be full of greed for money or whatever it is so you so you so you so if you disregard a very male construct right but if you disregard someone's humanity

in the same way you would to put them in a concentration camp or whatever it is right and you say I just want to fuck her so I'm going to rape her

is how do we I mean I'm not saying and she walked off I'm like I'm not saying it's not about power I'm saying to rape her. Is, how do we, I mean, I'm not saying, and she walked off. I'm like, I'm not saying it's not about power. I'm saying, how do you know that? Has anybody asked? Other than a statistical, like.

Well, and since then, I found out that a lot of people actually dispute this notion that sometimes it's about power. Sometimes it is about sex. Sometimes it's a mixture of the two. But when I said to her, well, you know, there's so many other crimes where somebody takes some, violates somebody, and people don't say, well, that was just about the power. He didn't really want the money. He didn't really want... So, again, so like I'm just... So I'm making a...

Like I'm thinking about it through my own mind, and I'm asking for clarification. And the way to end that is is no, rape is about power, now I'm out of here. And that's the kind of thing and it doesn't mean that rape is not about power, it's just like, can't we just discuss it?

Of course you can. Now can I say something? We can't if somebody at the table decrees that I'm right, this is what it is, not because I can demonstrate it or show you the evidence

that's what it is, it's because I heard it and now I'm repeating it and you you the evidence that's what it is. Well, I think that I am showing evidence. It's because I heard it and now I'm repeating it. And you need to shut up because you're some cisgender bigot. You know what? I never said that. No, but that is the subtext. No, no, no.

I never said that. Yes. You didn't say it, but that is what it is. I mean, if you're projecting that, because that's not what I was... Very few people have ever said to somebody, gender is just a social construct, when they were doing anything other than trying to stop that person from having any illegal thoughts. That's what that is.

Just stop with your... Forget that whole... We already know. I don't care what kind of logic, facts... I think, for me... This is what it is. I'm telling you, and I ought to know. So that's it. For me. This is what it is. I'm telling you and I ought to know. So that's it.

Next case. I think that there's something that adults and maybe cis straight adults find really confusing about being trans or being non-binary. That's what I want to ask him about. Her. Her. And that's fine. I'll get it. And that's fine.

Yeah. Her. Her about, yeah. And that's fine. Sorry. I'll get it. And that's fine. But I think when I say gender is a social construct, what I'm trying to articulate is that I think that a lot of that stuff is stuff that we've been taught. My five-year-old had a teacher in preschool who was trans. And when they explained to the kids when they were three that he used to be a girl, the entire class was like, oh, okay. And that was it.

Where's the crayons? It's Pete Davidson. Okay. I'm not sure what your point is, but I'm happy to. You know what? I do think that the term should be gender roles. Did we discuss Geraldo tonight? It feels like five days ago.

We got to wrap it up. Maybe we should have had Nikki on for her own episode and Geraldo. That was the plan. But she, Perrielle, when she sent me the calendar, she left this date off with a guest. She sent me the dates before and after it. So I said, we have nobody that day. And I asked her. Yeah, we talked about it.

Yeah, yeah. But I, well. She sent me an itinerary of the month. But we could have done it. But we could have. Yes, that's true. But we could have done it. It seems like an oddly put together show.

We can't get out of this without Dan, you know, putting it down in some way. But I think it's fine. We can cut it up. I certainly thank you for having me on. Is there anything else that you want to say? This is very emotional, obviously. At least as emotional

for you as it is for me. I don't know. I just really want to reiterate how much love I've felt from everybody in this family your body loves you and how unexpected I will tell you that probably most unexpected show of support was from Sean, the bouncer around the corner.

Those of you who probably have not met him, not at this table, but big, older African-American gentleman. Tough bouncer. Seriously. And then for the first time about, I don't know, six, eight months ago when I came around, he goes,

hey, you gotta sit down. I, eight months ago when I came around. He goes, hey, you got to sit down. I want to tell you something. I support you. I think what you did got guts. Whatever, I got your back. I completely support what you're doing. I hope you're happy. I swear to God, I started crying on the spot.

The last person in the world I would have thought somebody like big full of testosterone and whatnot, but he just made me feel so welcome and he's to this day

he is more a militant about making sure that people don't misgender me that they call me by my chosen name it's really lovely sure that people don't misgender me, that they call me by my chosen name. It's really lovely. Let the guy

Brownham be advised that this is an open, welcoming place for all. Are you going to go with Nicky? Is that it? Yeah, I'm kind of there. My biggest problem is that my old, okay, now the capitalist in me, my old name, I had 50 years investing in it and making money.

Mickey, Mickey with an M is such a better idea because, first of all, it would be so much easier for people like me because it used to go by Mickey sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The name is both. Mickey to me is not a woman's name. It's a mouse or a guy. But there are Mickeys that are girls. And then...

I think there's something a little bit more sexy. What about Michaela? That's like so obvious. Yeah, I guess so. But then Nikki can be your stage name. Because the last name is involved here. Jack's like, you don't want to be a Greer anymore? You know what?

There's a whole other wealth of discussion right there, but, I mean, I don't want to give up the name. Why would you want to? That's your family. Yeah.

You don't have family dysphoria. Is there, is there, depends which part. So, I mean, Jax, you had to be Jax because that was a stage name, but why can't you be Nicky Greer or Mickey Greer part. So, I mean, Jax, you had to be Jax because that was the stage name. But why can't you be Nicky Greer or Mickey Greer?

You know, I guess I could. It's still... It's something I can choose later on. In a certain way, the Jax bothers me more than the Nicky. Really? Because... It seems like a show name. Yeah, because...

Yeah, there's like a total... It's like a persona. It's not... You're a Greer. You can't change that. Well, you know, you're right. Like, I... And even I... That was part of my metamorphosis

and I kind of feel like almost going back to it. Greer's a good first name too. Greer Langton. Greer Garson. I don't know. I'm still sort of in flux about this. It's actually something that I'm currently in transition of my transition.

No, I'd like to ask you. I'll let you know. Whatever you choose, I know I'll mess it up. It's okay. Can you name one female Mickey? Because I can't. I mean, no one's trying to sell you on Mickey. I can't name a single one.

Mickey. A female Mickey. I can't. I'll look up. There's got to be one out there somewhere. Of course there are. Mickey. A female Mickey. I can't. I'll look up. There's got to be one out there somewhere. Of course there are. Mickey Hale? No.

Mickey. Mickey is a man's name. Mickey Hart? Period. No. There might be a female Mickey out there somewhere. If you look hard enough, maybe. That doesn't make it a female name.

Tony Basil's? That song was Mickey. She was singing about a guy. How do you know? Because, you know, you're right. Well, on babysender.com, they have Mickey, girl's name. Yeah, Mickey. Well, if I might say it, I've never seen it.

Don't show me. I don't ever want to know. Listen, if a girl told me her name was Robert, I'd be like, Robert. But if a girl told me her name is Mickey, I'm like, okay, Mickey. It's cute. Mickey Sumner is Sting's daughter. Oh, okay. Oh, there you go.

Mickey Sumner. Yeah, and he was a Sumner. He didn't, yeah. Okay. Yeah, he gave up his last name. Nobody says anything about that entirely. So, Mickey, well, Nikki, I hope it goes well with your family.

Thank you. And let me know. I have a lot of interest in what goes on there. Anne Frank from Netflix is here, by the way. We're not going to talk to her. Anne Frank?

Rachel Feinstein. Rachel Feinstein played Anne Frank on a historical roast of Anne Frank on Netflix and she's right here. And Gilbert Gottfried played Hitler. And by the way, happy 90th

birthday to Anne Elise Frank. Will you just tell the listeners who might want to come after me for something that I might have said that you have my back. Okay. Listen, to anybody that's listening that felt that no might have said anything that was wrong or offensive, I will tell

you right now, no. He's been a complete gentleman. I have had absolutely no offense taken at anything he's asked. Happy to answer, and as we all should be, especially for those of you in our community, please keep spreading love is love.

We don't have enough of it. I'm going over the lyrics of the song in my head. Yeah, Tony Basil's Mickey might have been a chick. There's nothing in this song to indicate that she's a male, I'll go over the lyrics of the song in my head. Yeah, Tony Basil's Mickey might have been a chick. There's nothing in this song to indicate that she's a male, that he's a male, whatever. But I had always assumed that. See? But I may be incorrect.

Tony Basil, by the way, is like 72 years old. How bigoted of you. Wait, Dan. We're done. No, we're not. Why not? Thank you for coming. Email, Instagram. Send your emails to podcast at comedyseller.com.

Podcast at comedyseller.com. And follow us on Instagram at live. Go ahead, you do it. No, no, you do it. I didn't know you knew our Instagram. I don't. At live from the table. Follow us on Instagram at live from the table.

And Nikki, you're on Instagram too. Yes, please follow me at DJ Nikki Jax. DJ N-I-K-K-I-J-A-X. I wish I'd just been able to interview you alone for this. You could if you ever want to do it again

or we want to take two. No, you can't. It would never be the same again. Something about the energy of the first time. Well, then I'd be asking some of the same questions

again already knowing what the answers were. It's not, wouldn't be as true. That's okay. I think it's fine. I think it was really nice. All right.

Okay. All right. Good night, everybody.