The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Des Bishop, Dov Davidoff, and Brandyn Heppard

Episode Date: October 30, 2017

Des Bishop and Dov Davidoff are prominent NYC-based standup comedians who may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar. Brandyn Heppard is a PhD candidate at the New School for Social Research in New York City. He is the chair of the Humanities, Social Science, & Education department and an assistant professor of Philosophy at Raritan Valley Community College, where he also serves as the co-director of RVCC’s Women’s Center. He was recently selected as a NJ Public Scholar by the NJ Council for the Humanities for his work on the philosophy of comedy.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. We're here at the back table of The Comedy Cellar. My name is Noam Dwarman. I'm the owner and the host of the show. With me, as almost always, is Mr. Dan Natterman. One and only, baby. Almost always, unless I'm on the continent. Comedian-wise, right now we have Mr. Dove Davidoff,

one of our favorites. And I think this is Des' first time. Des Bishop, Desmond Bishop. Des Bishop is fine. Des Bishop, his first appearance on the Comedy Cellar show. Yes, I'm very excited. Thank you for having me. One of the very, very funniest comedians working at the Cellar right now.

And we have a non-comedian guest. His name is Brandon, how do you pronounce it, Hephardt? Hephardt. Hephardt. Like Shepard. Brandon Hephardt, rhymes with Shepard, is a PhD candidate at the New School for Social Research in New York City. He is the chair of the humanities. You don't have to read all of that.

No, no. So you teach there and you're a Ph.D.? I'm at another school, at a community college. I'm the chair of the humanities social science department. I'm finishing my Ph.D. right here at the New School. Oh, there was a comma. Chair of the humanities social scienceational Department at Raritan Valley Community College

where he also serves as the co-director of RVCC's Women's Center. Oh. Okay. What does that mean? It doesn't matter.

You mean Weinstein isn't allowed. Yeah. And he was recently selected as New Jersey Public Scholar by the New Jersey Council for the Humanities

for his work on the philosophy of comedy. Oh, yeah. Wow. Nice. Which is why he's here with us today. Now, you wrote a paper on what was it? Comedy and revolution. Comedy and revolution.

Yeah, so comedy as a revolutionary practice. Che Guevara. Did you read any of the paper? Yeah, I did. It was really interesting and engaging. I had a go at it. Yeah, Che Guevara wasn't very funny. Didn't have much of a sense of humor.

You might want to mention also, but just very briefly, that Des is one of the biggest comedy stars in Ireland. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Dan. Our Irish listeners are very excited. Yes, I'll be good for the Irish. We'll get a little analytic spike on the Dublin listeners. Yeah, yeah. Analytics bike. Okay, so I listened to the PDF of the comedy dissertation on the way to work. And what struck me the most is that he doesn't believe that a conservative can be funny.

Oh. I mean, I'm not the only one. I'm just, you know, taking a listen to all the arguments and telling it like it is. Why can't a conservative be funny? The first easiest way to say it is comedy is about punching up. I mean, it's an old cliche. It's a truism. But, you know, the conservative world.

Now, when you say comedy, you mean stand-up comedy or I Love Lucy, Seinfeld? So part of the whole, and you're asking, you know, Professor, I will nerd out, so you can just cut me off. Please, please. Don't we look nerdy to you? Except for Des. No, but all the way back to the origins of comedy, stand-up is relatively new in the sphere of comedy.

Comedy since the beginning, since the Greeks, it was always one thing, which was drama. The theater then became film. And then only recently, all the other things. Get to why the conservatives can't be funny. Come on. No, no. So my point is, it's all of it. You asked what kind of comedy.

I'm saying I love Lucy. I'm saying all of it. All of comedy, I believe, is about punching up. But now, hold on. Take my wife, please, is conservative or liberal? So one of the things I say is there's a difference between just humor and being just an entertainer. And being an entertainer is a fantastic thing.

You can make a living. You can make people laugh. But that's not the same as being a comedian. Right. With regard to comedy being about punching up, generally that's the case. But how do you explain fat chick jokes always being funny? Oh, sure.

Well, again, funny is not necessarily the definition. But he's making a distinction. Yeah. And he's... You're saying a conservative... You can't be funny

if you're punching down. I didn't say funny. You could be funny. I'm just saying you're not necessarily a comedian. You're not necessarily doing comedy.

Comedy is this thing about working through problems to a good ending. So even in a stand-up, right? Wait, wait. I mean... Is that a definition you decided on? Yes good ending. So even in a stand-up, right? Is that a definition you decided on? Yes, exactly. So part of the whole dissertation project, the whole first section is about tracing all the

major arguments about comedy. And you can kind of distill them all into two categories. There's like the old school theorists back to Aristotle, and it was about the structure. There's certain pieces of comedy. It was about the actors. It was about the structure. There's certain pieces of comedy. It was about the actors. It was about the plot structure, all that kind of stuff.

And it wasn't necessarily about the laughter. That was implied, but Aristotle doesn't say that's an essential piece, and that's the way they thought of comedy until pretty much the postmodern theorists who say, no, comedy is all these different kinds of things. You can't define it. You can't explain it. The only thing that you can distill it is the laughter. So you can only define it by the unexplainable, which is laughter.

So these are the two traditions. Right. And really, my project says neither are sufficient on their own. You need both. So just the laughs is not necessarily comedy. But just the structure without laughs, if you don't get laughs, it's also not comedy. But didn't you start the conversation by saying conservatives cannot be funny? I started it that way, but I wasn't trying to be unfair to you.

No, no, no worries. So the argument is it's not truly comedians. It's not doing comedy. It's not the work of comedy. And even check this out. They can, you can make a joke. Well, first of all, I even think comedy will appeal. Even though a true comedian, we always will appeal to whatever will keep the show going.

It's always about you got to keep the show going. But ultimately, sometimes that's the cheap gag. But there's a bigger picture. There's a bigger narrative going on. I like to think there's a truth to power element. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the...

I'd like to think that I'm six foot two. And, you know, hit with the ladies, but... Yeah. You know, in reality, and we were...

Last week, we were about to touch upon this, but then Norm changed the subject to Trump, as sometimes happens, but...

You know, this notion that comedians are there to speak truth and to reveal uncomfortable truth is just, is maybe a worthy goal, but not typically what most comedians do in point of fact. And also, like, you'd have to define conservative in the sense that, I'm sure there's some people that we label as conservative that would say we're speaking truth to power because actually there's powers working

against us. I think we can do those in the same kind of thought here. So say what you said again. Say the main thought. About no, I'm talking about Trump all the time? No. No, I was saying that the idea that comedians, that our job is to speak truth to power is not typically what I'm seeing on stage when I hear about, you know, be it about period sex or Wilson Vince thinking he's going to blow a big load, but then it comes out as dribbles.

There's a lot of truth in there. That's just true. So part of the whole project. You know that bit that he does? He goes back. He's a lot of truth in there. That's just true. So part of the whole project. You know that bit that he does? He goes back. He's a genius. You don't know it. He's like, you better back up.

And then nothing comes out. So to that very point, part of my project argues that the comedian tells truth through untruth, just like all art, right? Art is telling truth through lies, right? You're making up a story, right? The story is not true necessarily, but there's a deeper truth. There's a deeper meaning in there. It's really true, right? You're making up a story, right? The story's not true necessarily, but there's a deeper truth, there's a deeper meaning in there that's really true, right?

And that's the distilling meaning. I actually start to call comedians in like, you know, whatever, I'm being a little dramatic, but I call them revelatory prophets, right? Because they're speaking this truth in a way that is subversive to the system. And it's that subversiveness right so the comedian always wants to subvert whatever norm it is whatever norm they're going to flip it but in order to do that

you have to speak to it so part of the gag might be i have to set up that i'm one of you so we are all on the same page and then i can flip your norm and show you like i'm going to punch up i'm going to show you these norms are arbitrary they don't really mean anything so there's lots of reasons why a real comedian might appeal to the gag, might appeal to the punch down, but that's not necessarily the ultimate goal. There's always something bigger. And even just exaggerating like the caricature, right? That's like a great way of telling the truth through the lie, right? It's exaggerating the point, but now you make it bigger and you can see the truth in there, right? Like the big ears or whatever.

Like, no, they're not that big, but no, that guy has big ears, right? That's real. So you are distilling the truth. The metaphoric, yeah. The metaphoric distillation. I mean... And I think comedians

do that every day all the time and especially about the human condition, about everyday human experiences. I disagree with everything you've said so far. Really? Every single word of it. That was feeling me. No, no, no. Metaphorically, experiences? I disagree with everything you've said so far. Really?

Dub was feeling me. Metaphorically, I experience what you're saying. I think Noam's going to attach to a kind of a word and make an intellectual argument. I would probably agree with him as well. I'm probably going to try to talk sense to you. I think the word conservative is

problematic, but I feel what you Well, I think the word conservative is problematic. But I feel what you were just saying there about not accepting norms or, you know, taking... Yeah, every joke is based on that. And that to me, my definition is... Okay, let me tell you. No, let's hear what... It's not progressive, anti-conservative. A conservative wants to maintain the norm. I'm having trouble keeping track of it all.

But just off the top of my head, first of all, do you know what percentage would you say of the material down in the comedy cellar is either ethnic jokes or dick jokes? It's not low. It's a robust percentage. It's robust.

50%? No, I don't think it's quite that high. Well, I can say for sure that there is a higher percentage of ethnicity jokes in the United States than there is in Ireland.

So I would say there is a high amount of ethnicity jokes. But he's qualified the idea of a comedian, and he's not talking about just the average whatever that takes place down there. You're talking about the lowest common denominator

to some degree. And I think he's saying that if you contextualize the idea of a comedian as somebody who speaks truth to power, subverts. Oh, yeah, I just watched that. We'll get to that. Sit down, loser. No, sit here.

We'll get to that in a minute. Go. No, sit here. We're going to get to that in a minute. Go ahead. If you accept his definition of a comedian, then you'd have less issues with the language. Yeah, but this is the thing. And this is the problem I have with the left. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They want to have their own personal definitions of things. Like, I get an argument about whether or not the Las Vegas shooter was a terrorist.

I'm like, well, no, he's not a terrorist because, as far as I know, there's no political agenda that he had. And they said, well, that's not how I define terrorism. I'm like, well, okay, you can define it any way you want. But that's the whole point of language is to have a common meaning to words. Otherwise, you just... I have a joke about that. Now a concept disappears.

Can I say something about that? He's going to redefine what a comedian is. Actually, no. Chaplin is not a comedian. Chaplin is an about that? He's going to redefine what a comedian is. Actually, no. Chaplin is not a comedian. Chaplin's an excellent comedian. He's one of the best. Yeah. But he's a psych-ass.

I think you're getting caught up in the concept of conservative being right and left being progressive. And they're neither. They're trying to subvert whatever norm. But to your point, even the word comedy, you say I'm redefining it. No, I'm reclaiming what it's been since the beginning. Well, reclaiming could be another way of redefining it. There's a lot of words that don't mean what they meant 200 years ago or 500 years ago. But that's what they mean now.

It's the most stable and like, yeah, I'm the nerdy guy. What's the ultimate example of this? We say, you're an anti-Semite. I can't be an anti-Semite. My parents are Arab, and Arabs are Semitic people. You just want to strangle them. Like, no, that's not what anti-Semite means. Sure.

So you're going to define comedy as being anything that you deem, you deem as comedy, and that means in the Deep South, there's no comedians because, believe me, they're not laughing at what you consider progressive humor. They're laughing at punching down. So wait, wait. So to your very point. But it's down. So to your very point, the thing that makes it funny is the

incongruity, and again, it's the subverting whatever norm it is, and it's not that you can't be a conservative per se. Are you saying Louis C.K. is not a comedian? He's an excellent comedian. Louis did a whole pretty conservative bit about abortion on his recent special. And again, he's

trying to shake people up, right? He's speaking to a certain audience. He was trying to puncture liberal ideas. Yeah, right? And that's the audience, and he does an extra job of setting himself up. So he's trying to subvert the norm.

Yeah. It's the labeling that's the problem. I will concede that puncturing a poorly thought out, Dennis Miller, yeah, puncturing poorly thought out ideas, kind of emperor's new clothes. Saying the emperor has no clothes

is a legitimate branch of comedy. It's not progressive or liberal, which is the way you put it in your thing. But that in itself is only one type of stand-up comedy. There's a lot of other things. Look at Ryan Hamilton. I mean, he's killing.

What is he? Progressive? Conservative? Edgy? No, he's just funny. If you want to sit here and bat an eye with Ryan Hamilton,

I'm going to say, good day, sir. So my Irish friend over here who's performed in China, he's getting what I'm saying. You're using very American... This guy's been Googling, man. You're using very American

political politics. You're using very American political politics. You're using very cultural parochial terms. And I'm using the terms progressive and conservative just in their generic terms. Like, again, conservative means preserving the norm, preserving the status quo, even in reactionary ways. And comedy is intentionally, no matter what, is trying to say, F that. We're going to mess it up. Now you're being, what's the word? Disingenuous. I'm going to mess it up. Now you're being what's the word? Disingenuous. I'm going to tell you why.

Because in your paper you spent a lot of time talking about Frank Rich's article about this very subject. And in that article, Frank Rich did not use the word conservative to mean your word at all. He meant it to be conservative politically.

In his argument, it aligns. Some American conservatives align. These are not my definitions. You want to talk about making up the meanings of words. That is not the definition you use in your paper because if it were, you would have to have spoken about Rich's column differently. Can you sum up Rich's column quickly?

Two things. The dissertation is 225 pages. That was a 10-page article, just a slice. To be fair. To be fair. The whole dissertation talks about this. And Orrin Hatch is not funny. Listen, we don't pull punches here.

You've got to come on and defend yourself. I'm here. But it was a pretty interesting paper. Don't get me wrong. Just the Rich article. And he says, it's not even his argument. There's all this criticism about people saying liberals, liberals in their whatever tower saying conservatives can't be funny. And then he's really thinking about the question.

And he says, well, if that's true, especially in this capitalist system, if there were funny conservatives, like Fox would have them. Everybody would put them on because they'd make money for them. But where are they? Greg Gutfeld is a pretty big power on Fox right now. And he's a funny guy. If you go outside of Fox. Dennis is not how it's supposed to be. And Frank Rich says Dennis Miller is the only conservative name with any staying power that anybody can reach for. And again, I'll even say this.

A conservative, they can be funny, but in order to do it, you have to construct a worldview. When you say Fox, you mean Fox News? Just, no, Fox, like, you know, know where they have sitcoms the network is Fox Network considered conservative yeah FX just follow any channel they're trying to make money is the point

I think that much of it can be explained first of all I believe in other areas of the country they do have conservative comics they have Christian comics. Oh, there was this whole article about this. They're terrible. Hold on. No.

Apparently there's this Utah sketch group. See this? In a university in Utah, they're totally squeaky clean, and they have like a billion hits worldwide. I've been meaning to check it out. Apparently they're really, really funny. They're like Ryan Hamilton. However, the, that the youth

culture tends to be very liberal, and they like titillating things, and they like dirty jokes and whatever it is, and I think that that is the demographic that a lot of TV shows play to. I doubt there's a big market for conservative humor among

youths, but if they were trying to appeal to the 55 and older group, you might actually see a totally different type of power. Now you're a bunch of, you know, a network. I don't care who the money is coming from. If they can make money, they're going to do it. So we can make excuses about, well, if they actually tried, they've tried. There's a magic demographic.

Where is it? Where are they doing it? A silent majority, I think you call them. No, there's a magic demographic. Where is it? Where are they doing? A silent majority, I think you call them. No, there's a demographic that the show's... Kids like to watch TV, buy DVDs, go to concerts, so kids are often targeted by mass media for that reason, whereas 55

year olds tune out a little bit. Well, actually 55 year olds buy DVDs. Kids don't buy DVDs. Yeah, no, listen. Foxworthy, the southern comedians, they are very progressive to that crowd. To the crowd they're talking to, to their world. There's not that many comedians on TV.

Comedy Central is a bastion for liberalism. They would never consider putting a conservative in that chair. Are you worried about conservatives? You're worried conservatives are under attack. You're really worried conservatives' world...

This is why Trump comes out. Now I understand. Four white men are here to attack you. And they're all worried. You're trying to say my world is crumbling. Is this what we're talking about? I think Nick DiPaolo is one of the funniest guys ever. That's why Trump comes out.

I'm not a pro-Trump guy. And I think that DiPaolo is one of the funniest guys ever. That's why Trump comes up. I think, no, I'm not a pro-Trump guy. And I think that Comedy Central would never, ever put a conservative comedian in that position. So to point out that they don't have any conservatives on Comedy Central, I think is just to point out the bias of the people deciding in Comedy Central. It wouldn't matter how funny. Colin Quinn, for instance. Colin Quinn is, I don't want to call him conservative, but he's pretty conservative, actually. He's definitely not a liberal.

He's a common sense guy. They're all libertarian kind of guys. Colin did have a show on there for quite a few years. And they chased it off because he got flat for his politics. So your politics, too, that you're talking about right now are very narrow.

I don't know if you see me as a liberal. I'm not a liberal, man. I'm a radical. My politics are radical. And that's not represented, but that's a lot of people out there. So when you say conservative politics, you're still thinking this very narrow slice of American CNN news when there's so many people that are far right of that, far left of that.

The political spectrum is so much wider. And that's saying within a very narrow, not real perspective of the people. So like, yeah, the conservatives aren't represented, but neither are like radical views because they challenge the capitalist system that we live in. We don't talk bad about capitalism on this show. Yeah, well, I guess I won't be invited back. We can talk about a liberal conservative thing. But I'm no liberal. I just't be invited back. No, he's good. We got bogged down in a liberal conservative thing. But I'm the liberal.

I just got our own record with that, man. I just... Spurge my name. You know, I'm a musician, really. Same. In his heart and in his soul. When I read... But not in his wallet.

When you read somebody... When you read somebody, like, really try to explain music in like a PhD paper, you inevitably say, you know, somehow this is not quite what it is. Comedy is what makes you laugh, in my opinion.

Well, there's a famous C.S. Lewis quote about that, right? Do you ever encounter that quote? I'd say it. He was a Christian, by the way, C.S. Lewis. Big time, yeah. It was, you know, like trying to investigate comedy is like dissecting a frog. Oh, sure.

Nobody enjoys it and the frog dies. Right. Yeah. I quote many people saying similar things. So that's the kind of, there's one other thing I'm going to let you go. You said you used the word liber... Libertary.

Libertary. No, no, you used it a lot as what comedy is. It's not liberatory. Libertory. No, no. You use it a lot as what comedy is. It's not liberating. Libertory. Libertary. Libertory. Libertory.

How do you spell that? So L-I-B-E-R-A-T-O-R-Y. Libertory. Libertory. And what does that mean? So it's just a term that means tending to liberate, and it just is a subtle difference that holds some space to say, hey, sometimes when you're trying to liberate yourself, you're trying to get free from something, you're trying to overcome

something, it's so overwhelming, it's not automatic. There's some things I automatically can be liberated from. I go for a walk in the woods, I'll be liberated from my stress. If I'm trying to get out of a situation of slavery, I'm going to try a whole lot of different stuff. I'm going to try this, I'm going to try this.

So those are liberatory practices that I'll attempt. Often they're not likely, but they're possible. So it's like holding space for this unlikely utopian dream imagination, but that has actual possibility. I would think that in your paper would would have convinced me more if you would narrow the subject matter to be talking just about what it is that you want to talk about, which is this slice

of comedy. Like to take Bill Cosby for instance. We grew up loving these Bill Cosby records. We talk about getting his tonsils taken out. And this was this is not even punching up or down. He's just funny. And this was, this has, you know, he's not even punching

up or down. He's just funny. And you seem to have written off that thing. And that actually, I believe, those kind of things will stand the test of time better than the stuff that you're talking about because your stuff is kind of time dated if it's about Trump or about conservative

politics. I mean, you know, so but I thought the paper was great. Go ahead. No, thanks. So the larger argument, the larger dissertation is about comedy, all forms. And it's actually saying the stuff that's like rah-rah political is not even what we're talking about. It's the subtlety of comedy that they can't see him coming and they can't shut that down. So it's not the things that are like anti-Trump or any particular time period.

And that's why like Aristophanes stuff, no, they're not still doing that exactly, but they keep remaking that in different ways. That stuff is a timeless tale. It's a timeless story. Aristophanes is timeless. I always say that, yeah. Yeah, well, even, you know,

I know it might not be your branded thing, but the Spike Lee documentary. My only reference to Aristophanes, it was a punchline on The Odd Couple one time. Remember when they were playing Password or $20,000 Pyramid on The Odd Couple? You guys never watched The Odd Couple? You never watched The Odd Couple? We're all in the age group where Odd Couple references... Shut up, Dex.

They play it on TV. Anyways, Aristophanes was a famous play. But I never read Aristophanes. My point is, Shakespeare... It began in Greek drama slash comedy, and it's still being repeated 2,000 years later. The same jokes, the same storylines. That's what I mean. Like, Aristophanes, Shakespeare,

like, when you're seeing these sitcoms, and you're seeing a lot of it, it's the same stories. And drama, too. Drama jumps the same. Yeah. All right, Brandon, we're going to let you go. Actually, you can still hang out. We have another guest we want to bring on for a while.

I did want to talk briefly also about Dove, his recent experiences. Let Loser sit down. Brandon, come sit up. Why don't you come sit? Why don't you sit in this place in case you want to bring on for a while. I did want to talk briefly also about Dove. His recent experiences. Let Loser sit down. Brandon, come sit up. Why don't you come sit? Why don't you sit in this place in case you want to chime in, get you another whiskey. Come on, Loser. I'll do that.

We have, if anybody's seen this, we'll talk about Dove. We have this man. No, we don't need to do it. No, I want to hear it. Loser. Oh, yeah, all right. Loser Tversky, who is the star of this new Netflix documentary about the sexual abuse that he suffered. No, no, that's not what it's about.

That's not what it's about. Can I come in already? That's one of the characters, yeah. It's one of the, I mean, it's not about that. It's about people who leave the Hasidic community in general. Right. It's about three people who leave the Hasidic community. I'm one of the people.

Yeah, there's a woman, too. Oh, you've seen it already? It started last night. So wait. Yeah. Hold on, Lou. So before we get to that sexual abuse, I want to talk about a situation between Dov and his wife.

What's going on? Speaking of sexual abuse. And then maybe you could chime in with the Hasidic point of view on that. Go ahead. No, no. What do you want? Oh, the sperm What do you want? Oh, the sperm, the IVF?

Well, Dove and his wife, unfortunately, are not able to conceive at this time. Fortunately. Without a little help from the medical community, so they have to do IVF. That's right, yeah. You went to the spermatorium? I did.

I laid down. I sat down, and it looks like, you know, they put it like an old hospital chair, and you sit in basically a well-lit closet, and then you jerk off into a cup, but they leave you three magazines. They had a choice between Penthouse, Playboy, and Tramps. Last time I was there. Yeah, anyway. Which one did you choose? A Tramps, like a gentleman.

What am I going to do? I might as well jerk off to a commercial. I'd rather like a man. I want somebody who doesn't respect themselves if I'm going to let it go. That is the name, or is it the ejaculatorium? Ejaculatorium, yeah. There's a name for the room. Oh, really?

No, I don't know what the name of the room is. I just know that it's not romantic. Well, now it's called the Davidoff Room. The Davidoff Suite. It's been renamed. Yeah, yeah. My question was, why don't they let your wife come in with you to be part of that beautiful creation of life? Because saliva tampers with the sample.

That's part of it. But also, I think it would turn the waiting room into a different kind of thing, you know? You had a bunch of people going in and out. What if you said your religious objections to masturbating is that you have to have your wife jerk you off? Are we punching up here? Are we punching up here? You're speaking truth to power. So look,

but can I ask you about the human thing? Like Dove... Yeah, sure, yeah. Now, I'm just going to ask. So Dove is... First of all,

Dove had a reputation for many years as a coxswain. Oh, the best there was. Dove can bag a woman. Best there was. Best I've ever seen. And Dove would have stories

about three different women In one time Two different women And a hooker Like insatiable Yeah yeah And you're not a macho guy But there's that

Macho he-man element to you Which I think is part of your Your boxing And you got those Manly tattoos And the whole thing Yeah I grew up You're not like me and Dan

You're different No I'm a man You're a man And so then to find out that look that that wimpy little eye just impregnating them right left and to find out that you were not able to conceive yeah it's such an irony how did that make you feel did you feel less attractive to your wife do you feel do you feel hate yeah well especially when you load the question up like you just like when you heard that i got my wife? Do you feel hate towards her? Yeah, well, especially when you load the question up like you just did. That's what goes in my head. No, no, no, that's all right.

Like when you heard that I got my wife pregnant, were you like, congratulations, but inside you're like, fuck that little juke bastard. Yeah, that's right. No, none of that. No, no. That would be human. No, no, no, not at all.

Yeah, it would be human, but in this case, I don't feel any of those things. I thought it was ironic. I don't mind. What was ironic? That I was able to get a girl pregnant? No, no, that I couldn't. That I don't feel any of those things. I thought it was ironic. I don't mind. Was it ironic that I was able to get a girl pregnant? No, no, that I couldn't. That I couldn't. I hadn't thought about it in the context of you shooting tremendous loads at 50.

55. 55, yeah, right, right. No, I don't know. I mean, in the end, in my act, I talk about how people ask me if I felt sad, like you just asked me, and I thought, yeah, I felt sad, but also I felt regret. I've only been married a year and a half, and I've been so paranoid about getting somebody pregnant. I've been using condoms religiously and I come to find out I could have been splashing this stuff all over the country. That is heartbreaking.

Right? Wasted. That's what I'm saying. I mean, all these years I could have been shaking it up. That's right. All those neutral loads. I've been blowing into a bag as if there was actual liability involved in having sex with anybody. There was no downside.

I've been numbing myself for 40 fucking years. STDs. Nah, you clear that up with a shot. Outside of HIV, what are you going to get? I'm a man. I don't get it. You're kidding me. Herpes sees me, runs the other way.

Herpy, you know, a quarter of the population, if you've been with more than 10 women, you've been exposed to it. So if you don't have it by now with my history, you know, I get a cold sore once in a while. Oh, I get a cold sore, yeah. Yeah. Dez is a beautiful, like a physically. So sweet. Physically, he's probably the handsomest. Oh, is he good?

He's probably the handsomest comic that works here I would suggest did you bring a man that is involved in an amazing documentary and he has to be subject to I'm having a great time Oscar Wilde said anybody can sympathize with the sufferings of a friend but it requires

a very fine nature to sympathize with a friend's success so that's why I say it would be human to resent the amazingly easy time that I have. No, instead I sympathize with your success. Well, I don't, you know. I'm the upside of his quote. I don't have any experience of that. God bless America, right, in 2017 that this is not an obstacle to having children.

Yeah, I don't know if it's just America, but there are some other countries with IVF. But America is certainly, you know, a place where we can go. We invented it, didn't we? I don't know. I don't know. The reason I was obsessing a bit about Dev's dreamy looks is, you know, W, you don't see him coming as a cocksucker. That's right, yeah.

He's okay looking, I guess. Yeah, I'm okay. But Dev's the guy you would expect to be that kind of a guy. And I was wondering if that was the case with you. I'm definitely more quiet about it. Yeah. I'd be more like a sneaky cocksucker, more like a sniper. Right, all right.

Have you had a sperm count? Well, actually, I had testicular cancer, you know, so I'm only carrying the one ball. I didn't know that. We got a skill pair. Right, yeah, I think. I didn't know that. You have a prosthetic?

I didn't go for the prosthetic, no. You just got a one. I just, yeah, it's just there. But you'd be amazed. People always ask me, how is that? But you'd be amazed how little it comes up. Give me a face. How little interest women show towards

balls. It's amazing. It's highly low down on the list of their desires. It's also much easier for the underwear. It makes things a lot less complicated. Bigger balls. Anyway. I was concerned.

Even though it's clear in all the literature that it does not affect your ability to have children, I was concerned. you know, even though it's clear in all the literature that it does not affect your ability to have children. You know, I was concerned. But there was a situation where possibly I could have had a child. But it didn't happen. I won't get into the details. But anyway, I was happy to find out that actually. How old were you when you were diagnosed?

24. But it's a young man's cancer. Well, that's interesting. You were in fear for your life. Well, I had a lump, and I waited three months, and then I got a checkup. But you very quickly realize it's the best cancer to get. I mean, it has almost like virtually no. Wow.

You'd have to be seriously neglectful to die from it. In fact, Lance Armstrong, his testicular cancer had progressed to a very severe stage. And he still lives. That was incredible neglect on his behalf. Wow. To have gone that far. But he also had the more aggressive type. There's two types. That was incredible neglect on his behalf. Wow. To have gone that far. But he also had the more aggressive type. There's two types. He had the more aggressive type. Mine hadn't spread. I got it out. I got radiation to be

safe, but it hadn't actually spread. I had no idea. Here, you think he's got everything, Dan. That's the point. But I only have half a sack. But I have done jokes. In fact, my audition show here, I did my jokes about testicular cancer. So I have done jokes here in the comedy. audition show here, I did my jokes about testicular cancer. So I have done jokes here in the comedy.

You didn't know that Estee's father died of testicular cancer. No, I didn't know. That explains a lot. What about your T levels? Will it affect your T? My testosterone levels? Yeah. I've never had any of these checked.

But they've never been a problem. No, but as you get older, you know, like men, the T levels go down. I wonder if they warned you. No, they didn't discuss it. They didn't discuss it. So I guess it probably doesn't matter. My understanding is that your one bowl can carry the load for two. Well, that's like one kidney, and one kidney can do the job of two. Yeah.

You just have to limit your intake, right? You can't drink as much as you could otherwise. I don't know. I'm not sure if that's the case. I didn't know we were doing a health podcast. Well, you brought it up. You brought it up. But I'm fascinated.

I'm fascinated by... He knows. He Googled me. Is that on your Wikipedia page? It is actually on my Wikipedia. Did you write it on your Wikipedia? No, it's on there that I turned my experience of testicular cancer into comedy. I'm fascinated by people facing adversity and how they handle it.

Well, look no further. I got a dead load, man. That's why I'm asking those questions. Yeah, yeah. Like, just to upset Brandon. For instance, Rush Limbaugh, who I don't like Rush Limbaugh. Do you know that he's deaf? I did not know that.

He went deaf. I just knew he had an inability to listen to other people. No, he's deaf. And he actually has like a stenographer in real time typing out the callers and stuff on his show. He still speaks. He's not fully deaf. He's not fully deaf. He's almost deaf.

No, he's fully deaf. He has a cochlear implant, which he said he can get 50% with. And I was like, to overcome that, you're a radio talk show host. Then you go deaf, you know? What a psychological thing. Charles Krauthammer. I don't know. Quadriplegic.

Quadriplegic. How is he? Yeah. I don't know. I'll tell you this. $30 million will make you overcome a lot. That's such a... That's such the...

Don't go there. I know what Brandon's thinking. I know the radical things. Anyway. Loser Tversky. Tell us about your documentary. Go ahead. This documentary, it's called One of Us.

It's by the people who made Jesus Camp, Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady. Yeah. And it's about three people who leave the Hasidic community. I'm one of them. And the obstacles they face in trying to leave and starting life over again. It's an excellent documentary. I just saw it. He just brought it up by coincidence when we were sitting down. So you left because you were being molested, correct? No, no, no.

Despite the fact you were being molested, correct? No, no, no. Despite the fact you were being molested. Well, yeah, I guess. But I left because I just didn't believe in it. I left because I didn't believe in it. I left because I wanted to see the world. I wanted to live, you know. But wasn't it a hypocrisy of knowing that you were being molested? No, I didn't want you to talk about molestation.

I know he wanted me to talk about molestation. This is an important, huge part of his story. It isn't. It actually ended up being a very small part of my story. It just got a lot of press. Yes, in fact, I'm familiar with that part of the story. It got a lot of press. Well, Dez was an altar boy.

I was an altar boy, but I wasn't molested. Now he's an altar boy. At the time when that story came out. If Dez wasn't molested, then who the hell are they molesting who are these people going after if not Dez is what Dan wants to know eventually you'll get to talk about your stuff go ahead

I don't care because I'm listening to funny I'm not funny so like I gotta listen to you it's the real topic of the day with Harvey Weinstein and Bill O'Reilly yeah a lot going on but no anyway that story ended up

becoming, getting a lot of traction because it was, at the time, Exo Jane was like big and it came out on Exo Jane and it got widely shared.

But actually, like, it's very, even like in the documentary or in other, like, interviews, I don't talk about that much because it just wasn't a significant part of my life.

It happened, it was shitty, yeah, but, you know, it wasn't a big deal. To me, like, the reason I left is because I wanted to see the world. I wanted to be an actor, and I wanted to do things that you can't really do while remaining considered. I want to ask you one question about this.

The only question. Yeah. If this woman, who was the woman who just found out, we found out, settled with Bill O'Reilly? I forget her name. A producer on the show. Liz Wheel. Liz Wheel.

Got $32 million. Yeah. How much do you think you should get? I don't want anything. I don't care. I don't, I mean, any money is fine. I mean, you give me $5, I'll take it. I'm Jewish.

I mean, like, whatever money you give me, I'll take. But the... I don't think that's a Jewish thing. No, I... Most people, you give them $5, they'll take $5. Well, I say, you know, if you give me $5, I can have $5. Well, I say, you give me $5, they can have $10. I'm just trying to put it in perspective. Like, $32 million to you or $33 million to the Goldman family for Ron Goldman getting killed.

Now, you're a child being molested repeatedly by somebody that you're supposed to trust. Yeah. He was a rabbi, right? He was like a teacher, yeah. Yeah, a private tutor. Anyway, so go on. No, I don't yeah. Yeah, private tutor. So go on. I don't understand why people

want money. If it's going to affect your career in a serious way, I think the cheat probably needed to make up for what she would have lost if she ended up getting into a fight with him or whatever, what the legal cost would be. I don't know what that calculation is. I don't understand it.

The better questions are, how do you reconcile the loss of that kind of spirituality in your life with this secular horror show that he's running? I mean, how do you reconcile the sense of sort of community? I guess you create another sense of a kind of community in the secular world. Well, you've seen the film, so you know that I struggle with that. To find my place and where I belong. And to replace that sense of community. You have a passion. I remember from your last time on our show, this was years ago,

that you have a passion. And that passion is black women. Not anymore. I mean, I still like them, but now I passion is black women. Not anymore. I mean, I still like them, but now I like all other women too. Okay. His passion was black women? I don't remember that at all.

I remember back in the day, that was his, that was Louis's. That was my thing for a while. For a long time, it still is. I mean, yeah. What do you think, Brandon? Are you Jewish? Yeah, I am, yeah. I mean, I don't? Are you Jewish? Yeah, I am, yeah.

I mean, I don't know, but a lot of Jewish guys like black women. It doesn't bother them. Like hip-hop, too, right? I'm not crazy about hip-hop, yeah. Well, you know, I think marginalized people, you know, they, you know. We stick together. Who doesn't love black women? I'm spelling another thesis.

I'm not getting it. I find most Chinese guys. We have a lot of Chinese guys. I actually... It doesn't matter. All right. I had a... Don't incriminate yourself.

I lived with a black woman for five years. You still do. You fit the stereotypes. The Jewish man's desire for a book. I wish more people could experience... But our relationship wasn't based on... Spike Lee had that movie Jungle Fever

where he tried... Why aren't you writing a book about conservatism for the main... for people who aren't... People's idea of conservative is so off. When I first met you,

it allowed me a kind of model of a free thinker with conservative ideals that made a lot of sense to me. And I think people need to experience that. Conservatives get such a bad rap because they haven't met a conservative of sense to me. And I think people need to experience that. Conservatives get such a bad rap because they haven't met a conservative

who used to live with a black woman, who's a musician, who engages with their own free-form ideas and really questions and deconstructs. Yeah, okay. All right. Thank you. One more thing, Brady. I'm going to just throw this out there, and it's not about you or you or anybody. Quick, quick, quick.

You can love or live with a black woman or an Asian woman. You can still be or you or anyone or you. Quick, quick, quick. You can love or live with a black woman or an Asian woman and you can still be racist. I agree with you. Oh, yeah. I agree with you. She wasn't racist.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, of course you can. She was definitely an anti-Semite. This mic is still on. And she didn't come in that way. She left that way. So go ahead, loser.

Loser by the way is spelled L-U-Z-E-R. L-U-Z-E-R. L-U-Z-E-R. It's an odd name, obviously. That's why I started saying that our relationship really wasn't based on the racial thing. And I was actually very offended when I saw Jungle Fever, the Spike Lee movie, because he tried to make the point that every interracial relationship was really just about the white guy wanting to get the forbidden black pussy.

And I really thought that was totally unfair and shallow on his part. Anyway, go ahead, Loser. What do you miss about the Hasidic community? as I said the sense of belonging, the music the food you can still get the food yeah, I can get the food and I do it and I do it, if you see the film

there's a scene in the film where I go to a Hasidic family, like a semi-Hasidic family like an open-minded Hasidic family. And we go and we eat and we sing the songs and then we smoke some weed, you know. So I like that, but I like the stuff afterwards too. You know, and the black guy is making fun of me talking with my hands, you know. To what extent do you think that the typical Hasid really believes, like what percentage of Hasids really believe the Earth was formed, you know, whatever, 3,000 years ago, Adam and Eve?

95%. They believe it? Yeah, 95% of them believe it. And how do they reconcile it with science? Well, that God created it to look like it's a billion years old. Ah. It's kind of like he redefined comedy.

Yeah. I mean, that's a pretty good... I hadn't even thought of that. He hid the dinosaur bones. He hid it, yeah. Right. Now, but as if it's not hard enough to believe in God, he's making it even more challenging.

He's making games. Sneaky God. You know, he's doing everything in his power to make his existence completely non-credible. Yeah. And for what motivation, I don't know. Playing games with dinosaur bones. What's the motivation?

First of all, they don't think dinosaurs are real. They don't think dinosaurs ever existed. What do we do with all these bones in the ground? They're bones. I don't know. There could be a deer. There could be something else. There are enormous bones. No, you're saying that the Hasidic explanation is that God

made the earth look like it was four and a half billion years old and that there were dinosaurs and all this stuff. They also believe that people used to be a lot larger than they are now. So there was Samson, right? There was like all these people. And people used to live longer. They used to live 900 years, right? I believe this.

Mithishela. I don't know how to say it in English. But he lived like 900 years. People lived longer they were bigger they were taller they were stronger so these bones could be

from the old humans you know back in the Abrahamic days the head of a brontosaurus they should have thrown you out of a house you're the worst advocate for a Hasidic thought

I've ever heard there is no way that a Hasidic scholar would have given me that answer I'm not buying it that's what I was told when I was a kid that Tyrannosaurus skull could have been just, you know, a member bigger back then.

You were also told that his penis tasted like strawberry. And that's why I sucked it. But what do you think it would do to religion in general if they discovered life on another planet, which, of course, now people are talking about they discovered some planet like four light years away that could be, you know, possibly harbor life. I doubt it, but maybe. But what do you think that would do? They will find something in Kabbalah that says that it was always there.

Listen, if there's something in Kabbalah or like anywhere in the Bible or like the Torah or the Talmud that makes no sense, that is kind of like really far-fetched, they're like, you know, they're speaking metaphorically. But then when you find it in real life, it's like, well, obviously it wasn't the Talmud the whole time. Of course we knew. But I would think that life in outer space would be the one thing that would be hard for a religious person to reconcile because it's sort of the specialness of Earth, you know, is gone. Oh, they'll find a way. The center of the universe suddenly may not be the center

and that's very frightening. I mean, there's so many things that challenge the belief. I don't think outer space is going to be the thing that finally seals the deal. I almost did a real estate deal with a Hasid and this guy... Well, thank God you didn't. No, no, but I had trouble because he wouldn't make eye contact with me. And I don't know that that's representative in general. I'm half Jewish, but I go home through Lee Avenue on the way to where I live.

And so it's an interesting experience because it's so insular. And the inclination for a human being is to be a bit offended by the lack of neighborhoodliness of that community because it's so insular. And I guess what I'm asking is, do they see us as people? Kind of. I got you. That's how I felt. Kind of.

If they have to. I see. If they have to interact with you, then you're kind of a person. But, like, yeah, not really. I mean, I told you last time I was on here, I said, like, that it says in the Talmud that, like, that God told the Jews, you are considered people and the rest of the nations are not considered humans. They're not, you know, they're considered like animals. I've always thought of it that way.

No, no, no. And I disputed it. No, you didn't. Yes, I did. And I tried to get you to back it up and you couldn't do it. And you went to Google and you couldn't find it. No, I found you. I gave you the quote.

Look in your email. I sent it to you. But you feel that couldn't find it. No, I found you. I gave you the quote. Look in your email. I sent it to you. But you feel that, Noam, when you're in that community. I mean, clearly there's fear and the nature of insular communities are that you need to push people out. They're extremely insular and they are cult-like.

However, I will say, and I don't know about what I'm saying, but my feeling is that Loser is also bitter towards them. Not anymore. And I take some of what he says as not to be the fairest way, coming from the fairest place in terms of describing what they are and what they really believe.

Now, maybe he's actually right. Maybe they do believe that. But I always learned, growing up Jewish, that... Well, you hear chosen people. It doesn't exactly... Well, you're not even considered Jewish according to that. They don't even consider you Jewish. Chosen to receive the Ten Commandments, not chosen.

And what we took pride in as Jews was that, as opposed to many other religions, we consider non-Jewish life to be just as sacred as Jewish life. Yeah. That you can break any law in the religion, not just to saveJewish life to be just as sacred as Jewish life. Yeah. That you can break any law in the religion, not just to save a Jewish life, to break a non-Jewish, to save a non-Jewish life. No, you can't. Yes, you can. No, you cannot.

According to halacha, according to Jewish law, you may not... You guys talk among yourselves. You may not violate the Sabbath to save a non-Jewish life. You may not. It's against the law. Is this a Hasidic? No, this is Orthodox Judaism. This is according to Jewish law.

You can violate the Sabbath to save a Jewish life, but you can't do it. But you can't violate the Sabbath to save a non-Jew. That's not what they rioted over. That's not what they rioted over. They got up on a cross for doing that. What'd you say? That was like, I mean, for Christians, right? I mean, the Jesus story is, they said, Jesus, why are you doing saving lives on Sunday?

You can't. You're violating the Sabbath. Right. No, no. Well, go ahead. You guys, I'm really going to Google this. Go ahead. You know, I don't know.

I don't know. Again, they didn't teach us anything about Jesus, so I don't know. Right, right. But no, yeah. We don't believe in Jesus. Well, if you guys hadn't killed him, I wouldn't have had to learn all that shit. That's right. You know what doesn't control us?

We could have all been on the same page. Well, we'll be on the same page again one day. You know, eventually people will get tired of waiting for Jesus or Moshiach. And, you know, I don't know how long this is going to go on. But you've got to figure in 500 years, everybody's just going to be like, you know what, guys? Jesus ain't coming back. Moshiach ain't coming.

The first thing I looked up. They're going to stop believing it. This is at Judaism.StackExchange.com. Are you allowed to save a non-Jewish life on Shabbos? Yes. To quote R. Moshe Feinstein, a refusal to treat a non-Jew on the Sabbath would be totally unacceptable. Igrot Moshe, R. Hunt Ford, I guess this is Talmudic sightings, 4 colon 79. Feinstein was a radical.

He's a radical. Nobody trusts him. Source after source after source. Traditional information, Nachum Rabinovich. Feinstein refused to wear a yarmulke. Nobody trusts him. At best, what you're characterizing it at is not an accepted position. Maybe some Jews do take that position. I think that Talmud is... And that's what I'm worried about.

No, no, no. I'll give you a good example hold on it was just the first return on the Google thing I'll explain I'll give you a good example of that okay you know the Hasidic Jews

have Atzal you know what Atzal is? no it's a private ambulance that is very very quick and very efficient was it Gavin Cato was he the little boy

yeah go ahead yeah the black in Crown Heights David Lee Roth wrote with the Atzal ambulance so they're very quick like if you call Atzal in Williamsburg they're there in like three minutes.

Yes. Okay. If you call EMS, FDNY, it takes them like 10 minutes or 15 minutes to get there. Right. So I'll tell you what would happen if a non-Jew would collapse in the middle of Borough Park or Williamsburg. You know, you wouldn't call Hatzola. You would call 911. Right.

Which means you would violate the Sabbath and make a phone call, but you wouldn't call your own people to save that guy. Even though you know that that guy could be having a heart attack, and by the time the FDNY gets there, he'll be dead. And if I call Hatzalah, I can save his life. You would call because Goyim should save his life. Jews should not violate the Sabbath to save his life. So that's a good example. Maybe technically you're right, but that's not what they would do. I am more ready to believe what you just said,

although I'm quite sure that for many Hasidic people hearing that, they would be offended by that because they'd say, don't paint me with that brush. If they're offended by it, don't do it. Well, I mean, listen, this is a thing which comes up

throughout politics and thought today, which is that for some reason, it's totally acceptable to generalize about certain groups. Like we can generalize. No, Hasid will never. But if you tried to turn that same kind of language towards blacks. Yeah, Mexican. You can't talk that way.

Yeah. So you're saying, you know, the Hasid are rapists, but I'm sure some of them are very nice. This is your version of it. But it's easier to generalize about a group that's so specific as the Hasid. I mean, they have very specific things that they do. I've known Hasids. I've read stories about Hasids

who've done humanitarian things. Of course. But in any event, you started out by saying it's scripture, and now you're changing... You also don't understand that Hasidic Judaism doesn't come from scripture. They live by completely different rules.

They teach you that. They do teach you that. And now you've shaken it to they are hypocrites. Now, hypocrites among religious people are much quicker to believe that you're correct. The more religious, the more likely they are to be hypocrites. And bigoted, yeah. What you're describing is bigotry. But if we're going to really be technical about it.

But not the religion. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, that ruling from Moshe Feinstein, actually, Rabbi Feinstein. Who I never trusted. Feinstein. He was a big deal. He was the biggest American rabbi, you know, Orthodox rabbi. He's a big deal. But that ruling, I haven't looked at it, but I can guarantee you that the reason that he gave that ruling is not because it's actually the law.

It's because he thinks that it's bad PR if you don't do it. So he ruled that you should do it for bad PR. But the only reason there was a question, why would that question even come up? If it wasn't an issue, why would it even come up? Because it's a natural question. It's a natural question. Why is it a natural question? Should you save a guy's life on Shabbos?

How is that a fucking natural question? Of course you should. I'm saving a guy's life, period. What kind of natural question. Why is it a natural question? Should you save a boy's life on Shabbos? How is that a fucking natural question? Of course you should. I don't believe in saving a boy's life, period. What kind of natural question is that? Is there a question we save a black person's life on a weekday? I think it's a natural question. Some of these chassidim would definitely give Des mouth to mouth. So sweet.

So sweet. You can't imagine. That's right. Even on the back. I wouldn't be able to handle the tickling of the beard it wouldn't be your choice so sweet if I could get a discount

in B&H I'd consider it but I will say this I want to add this that everything I say is based on my personal experience I don't speak for the whole community of course they do wonderful things they're wonderful people and again I do not criticize people

I criticize bad ideas. And I think Hasidic Judaism is full of bad fucking ideas. It is 90% bad ideas and 10% like we should be nice to each other. Can we just talk about the good 10%? Why? It's not that interesting. Okay, what are the worst ideas of Judaism? Of Judaism? He's talking about Hasidism. He's not talking about Judaism in general.

Hasidic Judaism is basically the Taliban of Jews. They're like the most extreme. They take everything that's in the books and they're like, well, let's see how far we can take this. Let's see how much control. Who's the ISIS of Jews? Natura Karta. But they're not going to blow up the comedy cellar because you're on the radio.

No, no, no. It's not quite the ISIS of Jews. It's not quite the Taliban. It's not quite the Taliban. Modi has a good joke about that, actually. He does it, Harold. I've never heard him do that. Speaking of conservative comedians. Now you're redefining comedians.

He's going to hate me. He's going to hate me. The name of the documentary is, what's it again? It's called One of Us. One of Us. Very good. Streaming on Netflix. Now, Netflix, that is a streaming

site, is that correct? A streaming site that streams film and television type things. Incidentally, For the old people listening. Netflix and it's a streaming, yes. Netflix.com, I believe you can find it.

Do we want to continue this discussion? Is this a character that you're doing? It's a character, yes. This is quite interesting to me. Also, the World Series will be the Major League Baseball Association,

I believe it's called. This is from... I'm not listening to what you're saying. This is from the Jerusalem Post. Dan's on the cutting edge. It says, let me state very clearly,

this is a... Jewish law obligates Jews to save the life of all humans, Jews and Gentiles alike, even if it entails violating Shabbat. This is a universal conclusion of all contemporary decisors. Contemporary. Despite confusing media reports of a recent public lecture by a senior Israeli scholar. While this ruling is not disputed, some scholars do disagree regarding the level of argumentation that leads to this consensus position.

So anyway. Again, it was a question. Somebody actually thought there was a question. All I would say to you, by way of criticism, is that if you wanted to say the same thing at another show, to say, this is what I was taught, however, I do know that many, many Jewish scholars don't feel that way. Because...

Yeah, but he's talking about Hasidic Jews. No, no, I don't want to go back to the tape, but he said that Jewish religion says that you're not supposed to... I said, I about Hasidic Jews. No, no. I don't want to go back to the tape but he said that Jewish religion says that you're not supposed to. I said I was taught... It does. I said that I was taught

that we were allowed to say... They modified the ruling. They modified the ruling for better PR. A lot of rulings have been modified. Right. Whatever.

It's the only thing that went... Do we want to continue? Just be fair. That's all I'm saying. I'm not asking you to sugarcoat it. Just be fair. Go ahead.

This podcast has a reputation sometimes for being a little too Jewish. This is too Jew-y? That's why we invited... Talmud is too Jew-y? It's so diverse. I have to tell you. That's why we invited Dez on.

If you were in Ireland, right? Listen, if you were in Ireland and you said to a boy that has been... Or a man that was abused by a priest as a boy, he said, now, in fairness, you're a little bit bitter towards the Catholic Church. I don't know if we can listen to your opinion. You would get fucking punched in the face for the record. Because they resent the church? No, because they're Irish.

Because you have a fucking right to be resentful towards a religion when you've been fucking abused by people in a position of power. But he doesn't have a right to color the facts because of that resentment. I'm not resentful at all, actually. That's what I worry about. Of course, he hates them, but as we all know...

I don't. I don't hate them. You should hate them, and if you were hypnotized, you'd probably hate them. No, I actually don't hate them. I just profoundly disagree with them. I'm just saying, when you hate somebody or resent somebody, it's tough to give them a fair shake. I try to force myself to... And mean, I don't like that.

Or when you've had entirely negative, you've had negative experiences all your life about a community, you're allowed to not give them a fair shake. No, not on my show. I disagree with you. And you know what, Noam, I do that all the time. I read your Facebook. You know how painful that is? Let me ask you this question.

Let's say my family was killed and raped and then killed by a bunch of black guys. Right. And then another one was killed by another one. So I come here and start talking trash about black people. Oh, no. Yeah, Dom, you know, you're resentful. You're being intellectually honest about it.

Because of what they've done to you. But that doesn't mean you can start saying things about them, which may not be true. That's all I'm saying. No, it's a little bit of a false equivalence. I mean, he's talking about a cult. I don't make false equivalences. He's talking about a cult.

No, no, no. I get what you're saying, but I hope you didn't misunderstand. I don't blame them for being racist. They do wonderful things. I don't like them. I don't like the Hasids. You know, listen. I've said on this show, and people talk about immigration, how it's okay to have more immigrants.

I was like, how about if we decide to take in 5 million Hasids? Then we can all agree it's a bad idea. There's something we got a country full of conservatives. People who think that America's a melting pot,

it's okay to have immigrants from anywhere, they don't really believe it because you ask them, is it okay? We have 30 million Mexicans or something, 30 million Latinos.

How about 30 million Hasids? They don't exist. Look what happened in East Ramapo. Look what happened in East Ramapo. Look what happened in East Ramapo. This American Life did a whole story about this. East Ramapo is in Rockland County. East Ramapo.

It's in Rockland County. They became a majority and they decided to take over the school board and started selling off the schools, cutting the budget and buying the schools and turning them into yeshivas. I'm not making this up. This is a true story. And the people of Ramapo, the people of Rakan County,

are really pissed because they just keep... That's democracy. It's 100% legal what they did. They took a nice, beautiful suburban town and turned it into a shtetl. That's East Ramapo. West Ramapo. Still remains one of the finest Gentile communities. Everybody looks like Des.

No, they weren't the best. Everybody looks like Des. Okay, I did want to... I'm being objectified. Me too. Hashtag me too, Des. By the way, just... Speaking of me too...

He does that. He does it every week to some guy he gets turned on by. Not turned on. Every week you talk about Des. Dan is a pillar of truth. It's admiration. There's a difference. I just think being a good-looking guy is a lot harder than being a good-looking chick.

You know, there are a lot of good-looking chicks, but a guy that's as pretty as Dez is rare. I did want to talk about, if I could just, you know, we were talking about Me Too. I'm getting into hot water with feminists on Facebook. Me too. I'm getting accused too. All fucking week. Because somebody posted, Laurie Kamart in a comic in L.A. that writes for Conan, posted an article about how, on Facebook, an article about how, you know, we shouldn't talk about what women can do.

We should shift the focus from what women can do to avoid sexual assault. It's because it's really about men not sexually assaulting. That should be what we're discussing. Because it's blaming the victim to talk about what women should do. And I made the point that, well, isn't it also important to talk about what women can do? Because, you know, don't we want to give women all the tools we can to... We're talking about defensive driving. Defensive, the analogy would be when you're driving, give women all the tools we can to... We're talking about defensive driving.

Defensive, the analogy would be when you're driving, you're assuming everybody else is going to do something stupid, so you drive defensively. So is there anything wrong with giving women all the tools that they need to avoid situations if possible, and it's not always possible, steps that they can take if there are steps that they can take? There's another good metaphor about walking down a dark alley and maybe trying to avoid that as being pertinent. Right.

And I got assaulted verbally, being told... Not sexually. Not sexually, but being told I was mansplaining and that I was part of the problem. Thoughts, Des Bishop? Those are two different things. My thoughts on that, Dan, would be that I guess they were suggesting that... They're not saying don't talk about that at all, but that there should be as much focus on this.

But I made it very clear. I said, you know, absolutely we need to change the culture if we can, which is a tall order. Absolutely we need to, you know, change male attitudes, which is a tall order. But we should certainly strive to do that. But in addition to that, what is wrong with having a discussion about, be it self-defense, be it maybe body language, there's things to be discussed there where perhaps one can more easily ascertain. I'm shocked at the amount of... This is my advice.

I think you should get a woman to make that point for you. I think as a practical matter, you're correct. Do we have any women that want to speak on this? Marla? I don't know who Marla is, but she's a woman and she's sitting there. She has been listening to the conversation. What's the question, sir? The question is, I was attacked on Facebook because I said,

I made the point that it's not victim blaming when we ask, when we discuss what a woman might be able to do to avoid being sexually assaulted. We should discuss that. We should also discuss, on the male end, we should also teach people not to sexually assault and put them in jail when they do. But in addition to that, we should arm women with whatever tools we can arm them with to avoid sexual assault. And this was seen as blaming the victim, mansplaining what you will. Well, here's the deal. Who are you, by the way?

I'm Marla. I'm a friend of Stephen Calabria's. Stephen Calabria. Everybody is our producer. I don't even know how to pronounce his name. He's a producer in the radio business. I'm your audience of one. And Marla is a friend of his.

And she's not being allowed to speak, which is classic woman-hating Dan Adam. You're right, you're right, and I need to look within. Go ahead. I think the onus has already been traditionally on women to be defensive. So to say we need to equip women with defensive measures is sort of insulting. Okay, so you know in addition to talking to men. We already exist in a defensive state. Right, but... And also it's sort of a crass analogy to say defensive driving versus defending one's vagina.

Like... Right under the bus. That's... That's my retort to that. You are in accord. I'm glad we had a word. We're already existing in a defensive state. Can I answer Marla? Listen, I'm a parent of a daughter.

Of course I'm going to be teaching my daughter how to keep herself safe. Absolutely. Where not to be alone with a man. What to keep herself safe. Absolutely. Where not to be alone with a man, what to do when there's drinking, what,

all those things. That's all Dan's saying. I'm not, I'm not, you think I'm going to be somehow soft on the guy who harasses her or God forbid assaults her?

Are you going to tell your son? Do you have a son? Yeah, I have two. Are you going to tell them? I told you that before, by the way. I think you met him.

He's fertile. Oh, that's right. I remember the moment where I thought that it was a woman. Yeah, way. I think you met him. He's fertile. Oh, that's right. I remember the moment where I thought that it was a woman. Girl, yeah. Go ahead, go ahead. So are you going to tell your sons, like, you know, respect, you know, like that's going to be just as important not to rape?

Yeah, of course I'm going to tell them not to rape. Am I really going to tell them not to rape? Is that a conversation that people really have with their sons? When you go to college, you're going to be a freshman this year. Don't rape. Nobody told me not to rape. Well, this is what I think. I think not to rape is sort of, men know that.

Well, you think that. Apparently they don't. This is the argument. This is what I think. I'm going to tell you what it is. Men know it. They just do it anyway. If a boy grows up in a home where he sees women spoken about respectfully, treated respectfully, children really do learn by what they see much more than what you tell them to do.

So, like, my father never told me not to rape. But, I mean, it was clear to me he didn't approve of rape. So I don't think it's well and let's look at the environment in which other people at the table

grew up in what was your she's pointing at loser like the record show about whether to rape or not to rape

yeah I don't know I mean it was never discussed because sex was never discussed so it was never talked about besides you marry one woman

you have an arranged marriage you marry this one woman and you have sex with her for the rest of your life so like it never came, it never came up. It never came up. We got to wrap it up. We got to wrap it up.

I disagree with what Marla said. But I just have to say, how many of us have those conversations? So, you go to college, it's cliche. Like, it's all about the woman, what she's got to do, what she's got to do. Nobody sits down, the guys, or even says to everybody, like, don't rape. But then it's happening though, right? When you talk about what's really happening. I really do disagree and I think everybody's

got to grow up a little bit here. I've lived a life, double lived a life, Des, I'm sure. I have seen women do the most inappropriate things in my presence where they really were just, by the grace of God, lucky that I was not a total creep.

I have seen women just throw themselves, be drunk, taking off. Like, there are things, there are situations that women put themselves in with guys they don't even know. And somebody needs to tell them, don't do that. They're rapable. What? What's that? You're saying those women are rapable.

So you're saying, hey, I was a good guy because I didn't rape her. You can try to put whatever spin on it you want. There's a difference between being rapable. There's a difference between being rapable. What he's saying is they're putting themselves in a position where it becomes a gray area for the guy. Listen, this is no good. I'm a good guy. Listen, wait.

Hold on. Isn't that what you're saying? I'm better than that. Hold on. Are you going to tell your kids not to walk down the street holding a stack of $100 bills when everybody can see it? Why do you have to tell them that? You're not going to get angry.

Shouldn't they be able to walk around with their $100 bills and assume that nobody will rob them? It feels self-evident. Of course. You're walking around with a lot of money. You know there's bad people out there. You've got to teach them how, to the extent possible, not get robbed. That's all Dan is saying. He's not taking the onus off the robber.

He's saying, grow up. It's the real world out there. You can get robbed. You can get raped. And all these things have a way of mitigating based on your behavior. And at the same time, change the real world in which men don't do that anymore. And also, the thing we're missing here is we're talking about individuals. It's called, and I know you probably hate

this, it's called rape culture. So when you're talking about it, it's absolutely right. But in a culture where all the messages are about go fuck bitches, go get what you want. That's hip hop. Have you ever heard of rock and roll? Have you ever heard of Hasidic music?

They do not talk about the same things you talk about. Hasidic music? They do not talk about the same things you talk about. Hasidic music is different. In rape culture, the message is not don't rape. The message is always on women to do all those things. And you're absolutely right. We should tell people all the things to keep you safe. But that's not the larger narrative.

And that's what Marla was saying. And let's see. That's fine. But let's ask ourselves realistically. If you have right now a 12-year-old daughter, what is more likely to keep her safe? Waiting for the world to change and men to clean up their acts or teaching her how to stay clear of this kind of thing? No, but what's actually going to change it? It might do.

We can end sexual assault. It might change. We can end it. We can do it. You and me. We're your 12-year-old daughter. We can do it. We're like 70 years after Brown versus Tobacco Board of Education, right?

We ended segregation, right? How are we doing? You tell me, my conservative brother. You tell me about the white supremacist nation that we live in, my brother. My point is that. You want to talk about it? No, that's my point. My point is it's going to take a long time to change people's attitudes.

Absolutely. It may be multi-generational. In the meantime, I don't want our women to be raped. That's attitudes. Absolutely. It may be multi-generational. In the meantime, I don't want our women to be raped. That's all. So my mom raised me in a culture where she said,

you're going to have to work twice as hard as people. You're going to be discriminated against. That said... Well, I read that paper. That said, when you go out in the world,

right, when you go out in the world, the message shouldn't be, you know, all the minorities, you've got to work twice as hard. The message should be, like, end discrimination.

That should be the larger message. But, of course, your mom, your... Right, there's this inside-out... What I was going to say was all these discussions about black and white, between a white guy and a black guy, should all be done in a shared mic, because it's a beautiful thing to watch. And, can I say one thing?

And conservative, even more. I want to say one thing. I want to say one thing. Yeah, we've got a white... I want to say one thing. This is one of the only... Why do Jews always have to get the last word? I gave it to Ben. I want to say one thing. I want to say one thing. Yeah, we got a wine. I want to say one thing. This is one of the only... Why do Jews always have to get the last word?

I gave it to Dan. I want Marlon to have it. This is probably the only table. I am not circumcised. This is probably the only table where you could still

have conversations like this in most places. And I'm not a conservative and I disagree with you with like 90% of the stuff that you think. I do better than the Nazis. But I'll tell you this.

I mean, this is one of the very few places where you can have a conversation because these are conversations that need to be had because now, if you want to talk about this stuff, within like five seconds, oh, you're a mansplainer,

you're promoting rape culture, you're an apologist, you're a racist. True, true, true. Those things aren't true. But you know what? But you know what? There's an unproductive response

to the questions. It's an unproductive response to the questions. It's an unproductive response. I was raised conservative. You know, I was, and even after I left the community, I was listening to Rush Limbaugh and all this stuff, and then I became a liberal, and now I'm starting to realize

that liberals are almost more oppressive than what I grew up with. I agree. You can't actually, you can't ask any questions. We have to wrap it up. We have to wrap it up. Thank you, Brandon. Thank you very much.

How has Dave Bishop made it through Catholic school without being hit on? How did this happen? I really enjoyed this panel. Good night, everybody. I want to say one more thing. Can we please, if we're going to have this large a group, more microphones, please.

Lou, I hope... I like sharing the mic with him. I hope the sound comes through. It will come through. I hope it to God. I hope so. Have you seen the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show? John and Paul shared one mic. If it's good enough for the Beatles, it's good enough for me and Brandon, all right?

I think we upset Marla, but there's nothing we can do about it now. It's too late. She shouldn't be upset. I hope not. Another woman going to cry on this show. I don't know. Oh, come on. All right. See you next week.