The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Dina Hashem and Victoria Cook

Episode Date: February 14, 2020

Dina Hashem and Victoria Cook

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. My name is Noam Dorman. I'm the owner of the Comedy Cellar. I'm here after a week or two absence. Just one week. Again with Mr. Dan Natterman. Look, I wouldn't leave, but I got to make money, you know.

Were you opening for Louis C.K.? Yes, I was. Was it canceled or something? What do you mean, was it canceled? I read that he had canceled some shows for a family emergency. No, we were in Mexico, and whatever shows were scheduled were not canceled. So there was no canceling. There's nothing about that that's familiar to you, about him canceling shows?

It was all in the news. For a family emergency? Yeah. He's canceled. We did. I haven't read anything more recently about it. Maybe it happened since. Maybe since then, yeah.

Our producer, the treacherous Perry L. Ashenbrand. Hi. Author of the book, The Only Bush I Trust Is My Own. And On My Knees. And On My Knees. And other books you have to get in a brown paper wrapping and hide from your daughter. All right. books you have to get in a brown paper wrapping and hide from your daughter. My daughter actually did walk around with a cover of Periel's book, which is

Periel naked holding a book. And my daughter's like, this is very... She's eight years old. This is very inappropriate, Dad. Can I post that on Instagram? That video of her? What is she doing the video? She's going, what is this? And then she... And Noam goes, what do you think about it? And she goes, it is very inappropriate.

And then she threw it on the floor. It's like the best ad ever. It's for you. And our guest. I'll let Tipper Dwarman. Dina Hashem. Is it Hashem? Supposed to be.

I say Hashem. I don't know. Dina Hashem is a comedian based in New York City. She has appeared on Comedy Central's Roast Battle, Conan, and performed at festivals such as Comedy Central's Clusterfest and the Melbourne Comedy Festival. And she's appeared on this week. Oh, actually, you didn't appear.

You did appear. Well, I did, eventually. Oh, you eventually did appear on this week at the Comedy Cellar. Yes, yes. Is Hashem any... Wait, let me just ask you this. I'm sorry. And Victoria Cook,

Victoria S. Cook, is a partner at Frankfurt, Kernit, and a member of the entertainment group. She appeared in Variety's 2019 Legal Impact Report as one of the country's top 50 game-changing entertainment lawyers, and she received the Women Who Dared Award

by the National Council of Jewish Women in 2017, and I believe you graduated from University of Pennsylvania Law School. I did. As did I. Oh, wow. When did you graduate? Class of 87. Class of 98. Oh, class of 98. So I had... For law school. Yeah. Schullhofer,

Francione, Gorman. Gorman. Gorman's still there? I don't know now. He must be quite old. Now, here's a little-known Natterman fun fact. And Elizabeth Warren's husband, Bruce Mann, taught me property, trust and estates, and a special independent study about the Western and the law. I wrote about Western movies.

And he came to my wedding. Maybe Mr. President. Not likely. Not President. Not likely. Not likely. I applied to Penn Law and still have not heard back. It's been some time. I assume it's a no, but

to be honest, I prefer it that way. If you're not interested, I don't need to hear a no. But I didn't get a rejection. I thought you went to law school. I did, but get a rejection. I thought you went to law school. I did, but not to PAMO. You both went to law school. Yeah, he went to law school with Chris Cuomo.

I went to law school with Chris Cuomo. And at the time, he had a very thick Queens accent, which he's done a very nice job getting rid of. My mother thinks he's aged. Well, everybody all is. I think he's very handsome. He's a handsome older gentleman, as am I, perhaps. It's so elitist to say, but there is just something wrong with the picture of you're the governor's son.

You go to Yale undergraduate, and you wind up at Fordham Law School. Not that it's anything. Fordham is a perfectly decent law school. So elitist. That is not the way white privilege is supposed to work. We hire a lot from Fordham. We love Fordham grads. Yeah, Fordham's a good law school.

I know it is. But, you know, if you're the governor's son, you're supposed to. He's Catholic. Well, maybe that's the angle. I have to say one thing because it was my idea to have you here. And we had a very heated conversation last week about abortion. So can you just tell Noam him, who your father was? Sure.

I mean, he's not famous or anything. He passed away a long time ago, but he was an obstetrician gynecologist in Philadelphia in South Jersey. And he volunteered on one day a week at a clinic in North Philadelphia. And there was a press thing about it. So he became a target of Operation Rescue so between the ages of about 8 and 14 we were surrounded by Operation Rescue one Sunday a month and often my dad was asked to wear a bulletproof vest by the FBI and we'd learn how to duck and cover in our in our bathtubs and we would be harassed like on a regular basis at the mall

what they do to your brother? They once tried to pull him into a van to make him watch the fake movie Primal Screen. And they would throw doll parts and fake blood all over our lawn and put swastikas on our... We were Orthodox and put swastikas on our house. It was a real fun experience. I have to say. I mean, that's a horrible story. And you want her to tell me that as evidence of...

No, not evidence. I think it's inadmissible to the jury, actually, as prejudicial in any kind of... Overruled. I feel like I entered a conversation that already happened, and I'm taking a side by mistake. I always like telling people that's part of, because I think it's really interesting. Anyway, you guys can move ahead. It is intense.

The last time I was on a radio thing, I had to be on this show, this like really religious after Shabbat show about my, who were mad about my organization. And I decided to be brave and be on the show. And they started like screaming at me about pro-life stuff. And I was like, what? This has nothing to do with the Orthodox world that I used to live in. It's not our politics. People have to have abortion.

You don't have the right to have an abortion, like halakhically. They do? Yeah, a lot of times. I didn't know that. Tons of times. There's lots of sources in the Gomorrah for it, everything. And they were screaming. And I realized I spent so long in bed with the evangelicals

that you pick up other things about what you do when you take money from the wrong sources. Yes. By the way, are you Arabic or Jewish? Arab, yeah. She's very pro-Israel.

I just want to let you know. I'm hate, you know. Where are your family from? My dad's from Egypt. My mom is to let you know. I hate, you know. Me too. I hate, I hate. Where are your family from? My dad's from Egypt. My mom is French and Moroccan. I'm really down with both those cultures. Where did you grow up? Me? Where did I grow up? In Jersey. Me too.

Woodbridge Township. Well, Jersey brings all people together. It does. At Action Park. Yes. Or Great Adventure. And by the way, I know what she's doing. First of all, we're not pro-life here.

I never said that. Well, if you say that we had a heated discussion about abortion. We did. And I want you to tell him. Right. So usually to have a heated discussion, would you you might presume that there was people on two sides of an issue how how heated could it get if everybody agrees so that so the implication is we had a heated argument about abortion that one person was for it and one person

was against it that's the implication so i just want to clear it up that that's not what was going on there. But I am not persuaded by some of the arguments that she makes which essentially... She's the she. And Judy Gold who was here last week. Anybody who thinks there's any difficult issue here is a jackass. All you need to know is it's a woman's strike to choose.

I never saw that. I think it's a very difficult issue. What Judy said that struck me last because I did listen to last week's episode and by the way

kudos to him for managing to do a decent show without me you pulled it off actually I was a little angry at that but I prefer that

the whole thing goes to pot when I'm not there but in any case what I thought was interesting is that Judy said that a woman has a right

to control her own body and that's all there is to it. And that's the entire argument. And then Noam said, what about a nine-month-old fetus or an eight-and-a-half-month-old fetus or an eight-month... And she said, oh, that's murder. So it seemed like a shocking contradiction between a woman

who has a control of her own body and... No one aborts an eight- a half month old fetus. Whether it never happens or not, I'm not going to get sucked into it again, but if I'm talking about whether it's okay to kill somebody, a living person, and to say, well, it almost never happens, so we don't need to,

that's not a logical... But there's like the reason Jewish law allows you to have an abortion in many situations because it's self-defense. Someone's trying to kill you. That baby's trying to kill you. I get that. But here's what I see in so many. And this is not limited to abortion.

When you ask a question, you know, like a Socratic, like legal. Okay. With a point that you're getting to. And the answer you hear almost predictably is an obfuscation. What about this? Well, that almost never happens. I hate that.

It also casts a shadow and the shadow is the shape of someone who doesn't really have an answer. I disagree, though. Why does everybody say... But why does everyone have to ask a question

that never happens? It doesn't never happen. It happens so rarely that that should not be the determining factor of where ethics are. Not determining. But you're putting up a wall around, let's just, I mean, can't you just, or can't one just say, it very rarely happens, but I'm against it. Or it's very rarely happening and I think it's fine. I think it's fine when it happens

because when it happens, the context of that is usually saving the mother's life. So in that case... Now explain, actually, if you know about this, I'd like you to tell me. I do know about it. Why is it saving the mother's life? Because in most of those instances, the reason you have a late-term abortion... Well, let me finish the question. Why is it saving a mother's life when the baby can

just as easily be delivered surgically as killed surgically? It's not just as easily. It's very rarely that's true. In that moment, the reason there's almost always a late-term abortion is because the baby can just as easily be delivered surgically as killed surgically. It's very rarely that's true. In that moment, the reason there's almost always a late-term abortion is because the baby's usually, it's a woman with stage 4 breast cancer. It's something else that's actually, the actual fetus is draining the life of the woman. But why can't the baby be delivered? It can't always be delivered because having that type of surgery

could also kill the woman in that moment. So let's use mine. What if it can be delivered? In that example, let's try to do that, but you can't always do that. So you would be okay with the law saying that if it's possible, they should? I would think that in that decision, the doctor should make the decision because the law is too broad an instrument. And that in that moment, there's a reason for a lot of the women who are so sick in that moment

or the fetus is so sick in that moment that an actual cutting open a belly and doing all that could actually spread it. Caesarean? No, but if you do that, right, you could be spreading. so sick in that moment that an actual cutting open a belly and doing all that could actually like spread it. Cesarean? Okay. No, but if you do that, right, you could be spreading. If you have ovarian cancer and it's everywhere, you could be actually risking spreading that if you do things like that. Now, if you're, it isn't, I totally agree that if it actually would mean the mother's

life, then of course. That's almost always what it is. There's probably exceptions on the edges that are not okay. But why then do they hold out in these laws and i don't know the answer to this and i for psychological reasons well every one of these laws has as this which to me is a dead giveaway that if you pay the right doctor enough money they'll give you the psychological reason. That's not really true.

It's not true statistically. It's not like getting a dog that you take on the plane. Everyone will give you that prescription. I'll put the question another way. Why is it if I wanted to have a law that said abortion up until birth, except if the baby could be delivered alive without jeopardizing the mother's health and no psychological causes.

People would say, you're a monster. I'm not sure that's true. I think that's actually how most of the laws work. In most states, there is no such thing as late-term abortion except in the emergency that's only physical. I don't know which states allow that. Tell me where. Well, the New York law says that. All the way to ninth month?

I'm not sure that's right. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure. I would have to look at the case law. But I also remember, and this was hearing Patrick Moynihan talk about it in the 90s, this partial birth abortions where they would deliver the fetus to the head and then suck the brains out with a hypodermic and then take the rest of it out, which to the extent that that's a real procedure, I'm no doctor. It doesn't sound like

the baby couldn't have been delivered. It sounds like enough to know. I'm not, I'm not, it sounds like a procedure which is designed to not run afoul of the technicality of the law, which is when the head is out. Is that really a thing? Because that's like a really insane thing. I don't have any first hand. Well, we should get some evidence. I know that they tried to outlaw this procedure.

Right. You deliver a baby. I think it's a kind of conversation where if you always are going, I don't think it is accurately a Socratic method to get to the truth of a conversation and about whether something

should be the law to only talk about the extremes. Well, you start with the extremes and then you work your way back. I think that's actually the way in which something becomes inflammatory and people have to take

extremely strong positions and that's not actually how laws are created. That may be true too. That's not actually how the world works. That's not how medicine too. That's not actually how the world works. That's not how medicine works. What I was getting at is what I thought was a contradiction between Judy saying that she

has a right to control her own body and saying that a nine-month abortion or an eight-and-a-half-month abortion is murder. So you have your right to control your own body, except in the case of an eight-and-a-half-month-old fetus. Well, you're allowing for an exception. If you allow for. I didn't hear the podcast. Yeah, no, I know you didn't.

But I'm just because I'm now just directing this toward. No, I just thought that was an interest. That's really shocking. The context was is that we were talking about when does life actually begin and what is viable outside the body and what is a fetus versus what is a baby and that that language is actually really important. Let's put it another way. But anyway. I do want to bring Dana in. The people that I know.

We'll just finish this up real quickly. The people that I know who feel very strongly about the pro-choice position actually, in my experience, have zero interest in those questions. They are questions that they're forced to think about because pro-life people will start asking them pointed questions that they kind of have to answer. But I've never really had a conversation with somebody who felt... Well, you're talking to the wrong people. I mean, I have a lot of friends who work at Planned Parenthood. I have friends who work at Pregnancy Rights. I'm also talking about at University of Pennsylvania Law School.

I'm talking about... Okay. I'm talking about friends who actively work in abortion rights and pregnant people rights protection. So when do you think life begins? I don't have the answer to that. I know that it's a competition between life all the time. We let people die all the time.

We allow people to live in ways in this country that they're poisoned by their water. We have lots of ways in which we do not value life equally. So we take those positions constantly. And you think that's relevant to this? I do think it's relevant to this. I think that there is a hierarchy sometimes of life and that there is times where you are choosing

one life over another. We do it all the time. Every decision we make of what we fund, what we don't fund. You can pitch me a hierarchy of life, but you've got to pitch it to me. What's the hierarchy and how do we know when it begins and ends? I just like, I'm just wondering. That's what I'm saying. I don't, there is a, listen. When was the last time you were pregnant?

Well, there you go. No, that's actually relevant. No, it's not relevant. No, it is relevant. I want you to imagine a situation in which you have a baby in you. Yeah. And you are, whatever, I'll even make you an adult. You don't have to be a 14-year-old girl.

And you are forced to carry something that actually every day is actually fighting with you for your own health. Horrible. Right, and you're forced to deliver that baby to term. Yes, yes. How do you feel about that situation? Not only pro-choice, by the way. That's horrible, but I don't understand what that has to do or why that would be brought up in the issue of... Listen, where I probably don't agree is that I question all the morality.

Like, is there really anything wrong with killing? I don't know. I don't know either, necessarily. But if we start from the premise that it's wrong to take an innocent life, and that it's seriously wrong, like if it happens even accidentally. What does innocent life mean to you? So you're okay with death penalty? Whether I'm okay with it or not, I'm saying we all agree. Not everybody agrees about whether it's okay to take a non-innocent life.

But if we all start with a presumption that we do agree it's not okay to take an innocent life. And then we do know that we have this moving target. That at one month, it's very difficult to say that this thing could live. But at six, seven, even five months, we know that this baby outside the womb could live and become a normal person, and yet we have to still explain why the environment that it's in is dispositive of whether it's a human life or not.

Well, the environment is also a human life. No, I understand that. Even just using the word the environment is dehumanizing the actual person who's pregnant. No, we're not talking about the person who's pregnant. We're talking about that fetus that's in the mother's womb. I take it out, it's human. I put it back in, it's not human.

I take it out, it's human. I don't think anyone's saying it's not human. I think that's a really false way to think about it. If it's a human... Okay, let's put it another way. If I take it out and immediately step on its head, I go to jail for the rest of my life. If I don't take it out, but do the equivalent of stepping on its head while it's behind that wall of flesh, I've exercised over it.

I don't know the answer to these questions, but the idea that the answer to these questions are somehow held in the idea that we devalue human life in other contexts, whatever, that is a total dodge from a tough vision. Maybe you don't know the answer. No one's going to convince me that what I'm saying is ridiculous. It's not ridiculous. You can kill it here and it's fine.

You take it out. Nobody said it's ridiculous. You can't use words like kill. Of course. Because they're accurate. No, because... Of course, because they're accurate. No, because I don't know if they're accurate. They're looted. Okay, well, when it comes out of the mother and you stab on his head, is that killing it?

I mean, first of all, that's fairly gruesome. Oh, come on. How old is it? At an age when it could... Is it viable outside the womb? Yes, it is viable. Five months, it's viable. What does viable mean, though?

Is it like it would live with lots and lots of medical attention, or it can just live on its own? Live with medical attention. Like any sick baby. Right. We don't say, if your baby comes out sick and needs medical... I just think it's a... Hold on.

If a nine-month baby is delivered and needs all kinds of medical attention, do we ever say it's not alive? It depends on who we're actually talking to. If you step out of bed, it's probably not alive. If it's a homeless person in the street, actually, yeah. Let's get off abortion. First of all, this is an interesting segue. We're talking about

a baby some people see as a parasite, you might say. Last night's Oscars, well, guess who took away all the awards? The Korean film Parasite by Bong Joon-ho. Unusual spelling. I didn't see the Oscars.

Did you see the Oscars, everybody? Come to the microphone. I did. Okay, so last night I saw Parasite because I knew that we'd probably be discussing it. So I said, well, I've got to watch Parasite. So who's seen Parasite? Yes. Dana, have you seen Parasite? I have seen said, well, I've got to watch Parasite. Who's seen Parasite? Dana, have you seen Parasite? I have seen it.

Victoria, no doubt, has seen Parasite. I have to admit that I've not actually seen Parasite, which I should actually give up my card, but I want to see Parasite. Dana, give us the Muslim take on Parasite. Have you seen Parasite? No, did you see it? I have not seen it.

Wait, Perry Izzle? Oh, I thought everybody would have surely seen it. That's why I did my homework. The big winner at the 2020 Oscars, Parasite. Subtitles. And yet, it won. What has gotten with the Oscars? Go ahead, sorry.

I think it's a conspiracy. It's like a really good movie, but all of these very rich celebrities have to say how much they love the movie just to hide the fact that they're, you know, just evil. Because the whole movie is about class warfare and rich people being evil, basically. So I think they're just, they have to put out this image, you know, that they get it. Well, but in the movie, I didn't see it. In the movie, I didn't see it as rich people being evil. The rich people seemed reasonable.

And the poor people were the kind of the, I don't want to give spoilers, but it was the poor people that were engaged in all kinds of skullduggery. It's true. I think that was by design, you know, because both classes of these very poor, like different levels of poor people just were put to fighting each other in order to, because they have to be in that situation because of, you know. Anyway, just to summarize

my feelings about the movie, I thought it was a good movie. You know, and I'm a simple man. Is it a classic? I don't know that it was blow me out of my seat incredible. Did you see The Host? Did you see his other movie, The Host?

I didn't see The Host. Oh, is that related? Because Host, Parasite? No, he made that, well, no. Okay. Might be. Metaphorically speaking i mean he's a famous horror director in south in south korea it's a big big deal and the hollywood

has been obsessed with him for years right so come closer oh my god i'm not used to this sir um so i think that you're i think that the themes of it are actually you're right that there's like a lot of hollywood who wants to counter invest in that theme but there was a lot of a lot of the other movies that were nominated other than Holly the you know on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood were movies that were from their point of view I think kind of like no one wanted to give Netflix that award if they can avoid it it's part of the internal politics of Hollywood to try to make sure a real theatrical movie gets that. And then the distributor, Neon,

is one of the best independent distributors that exist. And what they were able to do by being the dark horse was just a very particular way in which these, you know, it's not like people just vote. They have to go to all these parties and do all this stuff that's super, super political. And that distributor is just the best at what they do. And was able to make everyone

feel like, you can't split it between Marty and Quentin. How could you do that? So you might as well pick the dark horse. But at some point, Hollywood, I remember, I didn't do it this year, but I remember looking back at the Oscar winners from like the 60s on and for a long time, there was a long stretch where every one of these movies was still kind of known today.

They really stood the test of time. And then at some point, Hollywood just started giving movies, giving the award to movies which were not standing the test of time. And that seems to me because other things... Well, maybe there are less movies that

are produced that would stand the test of time. For instance, I do remember that the year that the last Emperor won, Bertolucci, that was also the movie that The Untouchables was made, that Brian De Palma, you know. And I've seen The Untouchables like 20 times. Like, this movie is so good.

I don't think I've seen the last Emperor ever been able to get through five minutes of that movie. They owed Bertolucci an Oscar, is how they felt. Like, look at Scorsese only wins an Oscar for The Departed. I mean, The Departed's a great movie. The Departed's pretty good, though. Yeah, but it's not Taxi Driver. It's not Raging Bull.

I didn't lie. But at least I still see it on TV. And The Hurt Locker. I mean, they gave it to the, it was the first movie a woman director won. Has anybody watched The Hurt Locker again? I have a couple. What else is in the category that year? I don't remember.

I can tell you. You talk. I'll look it up. That's a good question. I don't know why people take the Oscars so seriously. The outfits. You know,

in terms of, they say it's historical because it's a Korean movie or if a black guy wins it's historical or if a woman director wins it's historical. It's a dumb show

where people get together and dress up and give each other awards. It's not historical. It changes people's careers. people get together and dress up and give each other awards. It's not historical. It changes people's careers. It allows people to make different kinds of movies. I have clients, when they're nominated, they get big awards. They immediately, on their next deal, gets triple what they were getting before.

It's not of any real consequence in terms of you can't say, if a black guy happens to win an Oscar, you can't say, wow, what a evolution. It's just a bunch of white guys that decided to throw a bone to a black guy because they felt it was time. But it's not only white guys anymore. The Academy itself is so much more diverse than it used to be and younger, which is partially also why movies like Parasite win. There is a huge inclusion in the Oscar in people who vote.

It used to only be old white guys, and now it's like actually majority diversity. And how much, does a lot of people win Oscars and you don't hear from them again? That's true. The best original screenplay for, years ago, because I just saw it again on Netflix, for American Beauty. Has he written another big screenplay since then? I don't know. Alan Ball, I think.

Oh, Alan Ball? He just made another, he's making a huge movie right't know. Alan Ball, I think. Oh, Alan Ball? He just made another. He's making a huge movie right now. Oh, is he? Okay. Well, maybe I'm wrong about that. What's his face? Kevin Spacey?

Like a huge movie. Yeah. When you look at it, it doesn't necessarily hold the test of time. In some ways, it's because it's super dated in its politics. But Alan Ball, he ended up making, first of all, he also made the TV series about The Undertakers. That was really kind of amazing. Six Feet Under.

Oh, that was a great show. And he has a huge movie that's coming out soon, actually. Like a major movie. I loved that show. Okay, so I'm wrong about Alan Ball. What about that Korean dude from the Killing Fields? The guy that played Dith Prawn? I don't know about that.

He did Bang Norse and something. But he wasn't Korean, was he? Also, South Korea is one of the biggest industries of movies right now. The CJ Films, like the company that produced that movie, is ginormous, a huge distributor. That's like a giant, giant part of the movie world. And one thing that's changed, which I think might be of note, is that Netflix is a worldwide buyer, right?

So people are watching at home movies and television shows in other languages from other places in a way that they never did before. It used to be that you would learn English in other countries because they imported American TV. Now people in America watch everybody else's TV, everybody else's movies. Things like subtitles and things being from other cultures aren't as much of an issue for the average audience anymore. They just want good stuff. We live in a global culture. I will say this about subtitles. I don't mind subtitles.

I'm not an illiterate Neanderthal. But I do think it decreases the experience when you're kind of focusing down on those words. And when I'm hearing words come out of somebody's mouth, and then I have to read what they're saying, I'm not getting the full richness of the character when you say even Godfather Part 2 when Robert De Niro is all in subtitles

it's in Italian for a lot that movie in the beginning, like one word well I haven't seen that movie in a long time you should fix that, it's great obviously if I could as good as you might have found it to be I haven't seen that movie in a long time, but I think... You should fix that. It's great. I saw it again recently. Obviously, if I could understand, as good as you might have found it to be, if you could understand Italian, I submit it would be that much better.

When you can understand the words that come out of somebody's mouth, especially comedically speaking. Like opera. Especially a comedy. Or like literature, like reading The Inferno in English. I mean, you're missing something, right? No, that's different, but yeah. I think that's a lot different. Why? Because when... You're already reading. Because you're already reading. But you're reading a translated version.

When somebody is speaking, the way they say the word is going to contribute to the richness of the character. Yeah. I speak another language and when I, not well, but when I see and it's become a really big part of television now, this country, so when I watch series that are in Hebrew and I understand what they're saying and

read the subtitles I always I'm like oh that's something that's kind of lame it didn't fully give the real like um umph to what they're really saying it can't it can't especially I think in a comedic context I agree a comedy is meant to be heard. So better not to consume it at all? No, it's not better not to consume it at all, but it detracts. And it probably is one of the reasons why I didn't find Parasite as enjoyable as I might have. I certainly didn't find it as enjoyable

as Once Upon a Time in America. Such a good movie. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I mean. You made a legit point. Do you want to know the movies that were nominated against Hurt Locker? They were Avatar. Now, Avatar is...

It doesn't really stand the test of time. It's hard to look at, actually. It's a kids' movie. I was going to say, my kids love it. The Blind Side, I don't remember that. District 9, I don't remember that. Oh, District 9 is an incredible South African movie that you should all see if you have it. Okay. it's amazing

it's about a like a shanty town of aliens that come to it's South Africa but it's not officially South Africa it's a South African movie

where people start turning into like these giant locusts or something and they start this guy ends up getting having to go

be like quarantined to this place because he's becoming them and it's kind of based on apartheid but it's a scary scary movie ittheid but it's a scary, scary movie. It's so good.

Was the guy from Lethal Weapon 2 in it? No. The one that said Ditchick Nine deserved it. Next one. And Education? I never heard of it.

Oh, yeah. Inglourious Bastards. Incredible movie. That's probably Incredible movie. better than The Hurt Locker. Yes. I would say.

I agree. Although The Hurt Locker is really good as an action movie. It's pretty good. Yeah, come on. It's good. What about the... Can we move quickly? So is Blackhawked Out?

Well, here's the $64,000 question. I like Blackhawked Out. Would it have won if it hadn't been a female director? Yes, because I think no one wants to give Quentin awards. Quentin is a complicated figure, and people don't feel like those are good movies because they're dumb. There's a problem in general in the ways in which Hollywood decides what's important.

It's not always about what's politically expedient. It's always been something like that. It's about something where they feel like it's important. And Quentin's movies are, I think, almost... I don't think he's ever made a bad movie, and most are masterpieces. But for most people who are sitting in judgment, they feel

like there's something overly fun about them. Rocky won Best Picture, right? It didn't deserve it that year either because it's against something, that year I think is an incredible something against it. Could Rocky win Best Picture in this current climate? It seems hard. I don't know. I mean, there just seemed

to have lost. Listen, something has changed. There was a time when Hollywood in general pretended anyway to represent the common American folk. The movies, the themes, they're very pro-American, blah, blah, blah. They're all communists. They're written by communists.

If you watch, like, you know, even Christmas movies, they're literally Marxists. But you know what? Marxists could feel that they believed. The thing about Marxists as opposed to the current elites today is that Marxists didn't look down their nose at the working people. Marxists may have thought they were ill-informed or being used, whatever it is. But Marxists wouldn't call working people rubes.

Marxists were about lifting the working people up, like Michael Moore type. But there's something now which is contemptuous of the older values, the older type of Americans, the Rust Belt people. Are you guys watching Cheer on Netflix? If you aren't, it's like... Have you seen it yet? No, I haven't. It's about a cheerleading team in Texas, and it's...

Boring. It's so not boring. It's the most athletic thing you've ever seen in your life, and it couldn't be more red state. It takes place outside of Dallas, and it is unbelievably about respecting those people, and it's amazing. Well, there's some reason nobody's watching the Oscars anymore.

It just could be because everything is so bifurcated. Is that the word? Bifurcated means two, I guess. But there's so much else to do. People don't go to the movies as much anymore. There's too much TV. There's too many video games. The movies just are. It's criminal that you guys are going on and on about the Oscars and nobody's talking about the fashion of it at all.

Okay, you're an attorney. Yeah. You're a hot shot attorney. You're about to ask Dina a question. Oh, Dina. Dina, you're you're an attorney. Yeah. You're a hot shot attorney. You're about to ask Dina a question. Oh, Dina. Dina, you're a hot shot attorney. Yeah. Who are you supporting

for president, Dina? Oh, boy. Oh, gosh. I like Bernie. I think what he's doing is historic in terms of the last few decades of America.

Just, you know, funding his own campaign. It's unheard of. Not you taking corporate money. I think it's amazing. He's not really doing that. He has tons of dark money in own campaign. It's unheard of. Not you taking corporate money. I think it's amazing. He has tons of dark money in his campaign. What? Like what? He has tons and tons of dark money.

It's hot. I don't need to trash Bernie. I don't care who it is. I'm not going to trash anyone. I don't want to say anything negative about Bernie. I want to know what the dark money is. There's money he gets from different groups. It's not important because I'm happy to vote for Bernie. I'll vote for anyone. He's not my first choice, but I will

vote anyone who's a Democrat. I will vote for her. And I'm not interested in tearing anyone down. They're all great. What about Bernie that I don't get? He doesn't believe in capitalism. He actually says he doesn't. Capitalism is everything. I mean, you may want to tame some of the

excesses of capital, whatever it is, but everything that you look around and see that we have that makes our lives so comfortable and that the rest of the world doesn't have that makes them so miserable is only because of capitalism. Right, but... And yet, he is against capitalism.

He talks about Venezuela as being a great place and he talks about the Sandinistas, his honeymoon's in the Soviet Union and he makes this like, this is, I like Bernie. Why? No, I like him.

He's a funny character. I like him because he's sincere. I like him. I find him to be sincere. I admire the way he had a heart attack and came back, you know, like I like him.

Well, why won't he give us his health records? He's old. Probably because they will look tenuous, but I'm saying just to like, at that age to have a heart attack and get, He's old. Probably because they will look tenuous. But I'm saying, at that age, to have a heart attack. Yeah. I just admire the guy's pluck. And vigor.

I find him funny. He makes them funny. Nothing about him. Let me put it another way. If Bernie agreed with my worldview, I would think he was the most awesome guy who ever walked planet Earth. That's what I mean. I like him. There's nothing about his character or his personality, anything that I don't find extremely winning. I didn't know that.

I find that takes very short. Have you ever heard me say a bad word about Bernie? No, I haven't, but I love that you like him. Yeah. I mean, how can you not like the guy? I just don't agree with him. I just disagree with everything he says. Well, no. I mean, the idea that... He's great, though.

That we've raised a whole young generation of people that don't understand, even like, you know, economics majors like Ocasio-Cortez, that don't understand capitalism. I mean, even Elizabeth Warren, who has a lot of common ground, she's very careful. No, I'm a capitalist. Of course. It's stunning to me. I think the issue is that we haven't really been experiencing actual capitalism. We've been experiencing this extremely

corrupt form of capitalism, and that's what I think Bernie is railing against. Well, he could say that, but he says, actually, listen, he has a whole history of wanting to see things nationalized, industries nationalized. That's not necessarily not capitalism, though. Yes, it is.

It depends. I mean, there's countries that have national health care, and you don't think the U.K. is capitalist? I mean, they have national health care. Their health care system is not capitalist. Yeah, so certain things can be nationalized. It doesn't mean that— Certain things can be, but to the extent that they are, it's no longer capitalism. I don't know— At the point where everything is nationalized.

Well, we don't really have true capitalism on either side of it. We have plenty of welfare. By the way, I don't know that a single-payer healthcare system means that the health industry is nationalized. The paying for it is nationalized.

But a hospital is still free to compete. Drug companies are still free to compete. No, not really. How do you compete? Well, a drug company can compete to get the government contract, to get the best pill. So once you have the best pill, then that'll be the pill that the government pays for. And the government will tell you how much you have to pay. But I think this is all a distraction right now. The only thing that matters is getting back the rule of law.

We have a president now who is railing against judges and prosecutors and their law doesn't apply equally to people who are he-likes and he's above the law. Oh, you're referring to the Roger Stone thing? Yeah, among other things, including his recent tweets about what to do to judges, including a war on blue states and what he's doing to New Yorkers in terms of... I'm really torn about this Roger Stone thing.

I know that he shouldn't have done that, but I... Don't you want to live in a country where the president has to obey what the legal system says? It's too bad. He didn't break the law. No one's accusing Trump of breaking the law. No, but who has to live with the results of a trial, even if it's for his friend? Well, he does have... He will have.

The judge can still send him however he wants. He's made it very clear that there will be hell to pay. So let me... Hell? No, there's not going to be hell to pay for a judge. What can he do to a judge? But look, here's my... I don't know.

We don't live in that country quite yet, but we will soon. At that point, he would have broken the law. And actually, that would even be impeachable. But let me say that I, the sentence of nine years for Roger Stone, a 60 something year old man when they brought into it the fact that he sent an email to randy critical who we i know pretty well we know him who said and he came here and talked about the rogers who said that he never he rogers was just you know screaming and yelling and venting you know he never took it seriously for a minute that roger stone was going to kill his dog or whatever it is. To bring that in

to the sentencing hearing of an old man to get nine years. Chelsea Manning got seven years. I mean, after Obama. I actually Googled nine year sentences. It's like serious drug trafficking, child pornography. The list of people who've been sentenced to nine years

have done really serious shit. He did really serious shit and he also did some things like he actually put the address of his judge with a target on his back to people, to his followers. Well, I don't think he's charged. That's not a crime he's charged with. I understand that, but I'm saying that there is...

You don't want to bring in things that he's not charged with into sentencing, do you? I don't know. No. Okay, fine. But there's a level to which... You would see a guy like that go to jail for nine years for lying about something that in the end was not consequential? It doesn't matter if it's not consequential. He lied. And it wasn't unconstitutional. So at least you don't think that Chelsea Manning should have been commuted.

I have mixed feelings about Chelsea. I think Chelsea Manning probably should have gone to jail longer, actually. Not just commuted. I think Chelsea Manning, I think it's complicated, the Chelsea Manning thing, and I'm not sure, but I think that there is a real, I'm not a huge Chelsea Manning fan. Do you think McCabe should go to jail? Do you think any chance McCabe will do nine days for having lied to the

FBI? No, no. No, of course not. I mean, listen, I'm surprised you say that. I figure you to be a liberal attorney. I think to any... I just feel strict about certain things. And I think lying in those ways... Hold on.

But you know that they brought in these emails, which to any reasonable person, you know, this is just pretextual. But why are you sure it's just pretextual that he's like that? Because there's a history of him. I've done... Did you see the documentary about him? Because they're ranting. You really think that Roger Stone was going to take his dog away from Randy Credico?

Randy Credico knows him very, very well. There's a long history of Roger Stone, especially back in the day in early Florida, during the recount and all that stuff, the stuff that he was willing to do. The people who really know him and work with him know that he's really scary. The guy who he wrote the emails to, who really knows him and worked with him, said he wasn't scared. Said, this is just Roger being Roger.

This is nonsense. How would you feel about whatever it is to any, I think, objective person? You say, wait a second. If they're bringing in something so shaky, they didn't call Randy Crudico in. Why do you care? The fact that he got- Because I'm very uncomfortable with incarceration in general. But he got it on me too.

That's one of the... Well, it doesn't sound like it. I'm very uncomfortable with incarceration. Nine years, a virtual death sentence. Whatever it is for him, it's just not the president's business. And he shouldn't be pressuring the DOJ. He should be a separate entity. He should pardon them like Bill Clinton and George Bush did. Do whatever he wants. He has a right to pardon. But to pressure the DOJ and the DOJ to react in that

way, it's very scary. To see what happened to the Vindman brothers is very scary. We're entering a time in which there is no separation. The DOJ is supposed to be separate from the executive branch in that way. He's not allowed... I don't know that you're... I don't disagree that it should be, but I don't know that you could give me a statute for that. Maybe I can. I'm not a separation of powers expert.

But the idea that— There's no separation of powers. It's the executive branch. Right. It is the executive branch. And there's only one— But the idea that we have an attorney general that is only going to investigate certain things in the way that the president says. He's not his lawyer. He's not the counsel of the White House. There is the argument, and it seems pretty strong,

that if the president is in charge of the executive branch, there's not a fourth branch of government. The Justice Department is not its own branch of government. They do have a boss, and that boss is Trump. I'll put it another way. If this were an injustice of a white jury railroading a black dude and the president intervened here. I still think it's wrong. I don't think the president should be doing it.

That's not true. Everybody would say. You're asking me, not everybody. Okay. Well, good for you. At least you're consistent. I think that if this was, if Trump was stepping in to prevent an obvious injustice. And you pardon.

You have a pardon power. You should not be getting... No, if he tweeted, this is outrageous, this guy was innocent. The whole tweeting thing, our president doing that is already so crazy. The fact that we're accepting that, that that's a basic way in which we should be communicating

the presidential wants and needs. It's so insane that that's the norm that we're now talking about. Tweeting it. Who the fuck does that? That's not what presidents behave. They're all going to be doing it from this day on. It's a tragedy. That is a tragedy.

I don't know if it's necessarily a tragedy. It gives people a real opportunity to hear the president's thoughts. And he gets to delete them and they need to be archived. And the National Archives Service is deleting... Come on, it's total insanity that this guy is off the fucking rails just tweeting at whim.

Our international policy, our everything. And then in the meantime, the National Archives are deleting everything right now about stuff that happened because of the impeachment. This is not okay. You went to law school. You know it's not okay. What's not okay? The fact that the National Archives are deleting things that make him look bad. No, that's not okay.

I presume that's not okay. It's not okay. It's not okay. It's not okay. No matter what your politics are, you went to law school, you took Civ Pro, you took Con Law, there's no way you at all, either of you, could really feel okay. I'm not worried that anything's actually disappearing, however. I think that...

It doesn't matter whether we have the digital records. By the way, I never heard this. They're deleting... Yeah, Google it right now. We're getting a little we have the digital records. By the way, I never heard this. They're deleting. What are they deleting from the National Archives? The evidence. Testimony. We're getting a little bit into the weeds here. No, so I mean, I'm just, listen, I think it's ridiculous that he's tweeting about the Justice Department. I imagine there are proper, dignified ways of a president addressing this. And, of course, the difference between the examples that I've given and the Trump example is that he has a self-interest here.

So that that, of course, has to be. But but on the other hand, it does strike me as a real injustice. What happened to Roger Stone? And on the other hand, George Bush senior pardoned Casper Weinberger, which was pretty close obstruction of justice. Ford pardoned Nixon. But Ford didn't pardon Nixon to save his ass. Bush pardoned Casper Weinberger probably to save his own ass.

Probably. Clinton pardoned Susan McDougal probably to keep... So, to be, as a fair-minded... Trump's going to pardon himself eventually. Right. Is that a thing for real? Self-pardon is a constitutional question,

but probably. So, as a fair person who tries to be fair, I do force myself to, okay, this is outrageous. Have I always reacted to these kind of things with the same, deciding they were outrageous? How did I react when Bush transparently pardoned Casper Weinberger? How did I react? And I realized, no, I didn't quite react the same way. And actually, that was actually a pardon letting the guy off. And all Trump is doing here is recommending that the sentence be less

but it's never it's own thing it's in a bigger context of everything that he's doing which is obviously not to care about the rule of law

no ma'am you know that's true in your heart you know it no no I do know but I don't know that you can

any one example maybe you can explain away but when there's a crescendo a tsunami of these things we recognize that already he pardoned that sheriff. He's like,

he doesn't care about issues that if people are seen as his enemy, they're on his enemy list and he's going to figure out a way to fire them, to embarrass them. But if there's a specific example

that can be explained away. All of them probably could in their own right. Are you saying that it doesn't matter if it could be explained away? We shouldn't even wonder about that because we know these other things he did. So therefore, it's irrelevant that we might be wrong about this specific example.

I think if we were a jury on that one example, we should focus only on that one example. But we're the American public, and we care about whether or not we have tyranny. That's for the voting booth. It's more than, yes, voting booth, but also why, I just posted this today. I found all these, I went online and found all the pictures of lawyers in Pakistan, lawyers in Hong Kong, lawyers in France, lawyers in Algiers, lawyers in Zimbabwe, lawyers in Kenya. You mean Algeria?

In Algeria. What did I say? You said Algiers. Oh, I meant to say Algeria, sorry. In Kenya, in Zimbabwe, in all these places. You mean Zimbabwe? I meant Zimbabwe, not Rojija. Where people actually are lawyers in the street, risking getting arrested to protect the rule of law.

And I feel like, what are we doing? Like, our billable hours are so fucking important. I'm just argumentative. My rule of thumb is when I see a guest, a beloved invited guest, saying nothing for a long period of time, it's time to change the subject. Now, possible topics known that I have for this week is...

If Bernie doesn't win, who are you going to support? Klobuchar? Well, whoever the blue person is. All right. Even Michael Bloomberg, a billionaire? You'd go from Bernie to a billionaire? I would not like that. It would be a difficult thing to do.

You'd do it, right? Officially on the record, yes. I would absolutely travel to do that. Absolutely. No, speaking of Bloomberg, we could talk about, A, the Mike Bloomberg audio leak of Stop and Frisk. Oh, yeah, let's talk about that. Well, the other possibility is the peace deal in the Middle East. No, no, no.

I don't want Dina to cry. Or the new menu items here at the Comedy Cell. No, no, Michael Bloomberg. I enjoy the Papa Del with lamb ragout. Okay, what do you think about Bloomberg's latest? Well, let me introduce the segment for the listeners that might not... They're probably aware of it because it's a big story. Go ahead.

But I will just do a summary. Okay. Audio is leaked of Bloomberg saying, in regard to stop and frisk, that the key to saving lives and to diminishing crime is to put... You're boring Victoria, Dan. You've got to move it along. No, it's just very upsetting. Is to put the cops where the crime is. And he said

that in most cities, the crime is perpetrated by 16 to 25 year old minority males. Therefore, the logical thing to do, according to this audio, is put the cops in neighborhoods where you have minorities and to throw them against the wall and frisk

them to get guns out of their possession. So that was the leaked audio and obviously has led to him, even Trump said wow, Bloomberg is a total racist. Even Trump, he's taking advantage of that. He's also taking it so smart

to take a moment like that. And tweeted it, but he deleted the tweet for whatever reason. And then it was deleted from the National Archives. Is it racist? Is it racist? Is it racist to... I see it more as a constitutional issue. Throwing people up against the wall without probable cause

seems like a terrible violation of civil rights. But to say that minorities are committing the majority of the violent crime, if true, if statistically true, it cannot be racist. Except that the stop and frisk didn't really work, right? Well, it worked. It was racist. It didn't really work, actually. It turned out.

It worked. Look at what's going on in Baltimore now. I'm against it. I'm against stop and frisk. I've always have been on record for years being against it. But I don't, that doesn't, I'm not against it because I think it didn't work. It is racist, though. Well, he said, listen, he said something else that got less attention, but it infuriated me.

He said the following. So one of the unintended consequences people say is, oh my God, you're arresting kids for marijuana that are all minorities. Yes, that's true. Why? Because we put all the cops in minority neighborhoods. Why do we do it? Because that's where all the crime is. So I actually wrote an email to a friend when I saw it. I said, like, you could not

give me a better hand-picked example of systematic racism than telling me that they're rounding up these law-abiding black kids for an offense that nobody actually cares about. And it never happens to white kids.

It's disgusting. Because these black kids are unfortunate enough to be the same color as, and the rest, I think he's right, as the overwhelming majority of these violent crimes are committed in these neighborhoods.

The new chef is looking at our podcast. And you would think... Good job on the Papa Adele, by the way. All right. He's standing right there. I wanted to comment on the Pappardelle. Go ahead. No, I'm done. You go ahead. Noam, I tell you, Noam gets so agitated. I agree with Noam. Noam, that was funny. I'm talking about

the Pappardelle in the middle of a conversation about Bloomberg. Don't you get it? Because, uh, no, I don't get it. Maybe that's why I didn't get it. I'm sorry.'m sorry no I'm not on the same page comedically anyway so I I think that

this is typical of Bloomberg and this goes back to the argument we had about congestion pricing these fucking rich elitist pricks it's not that they're racist he he actually

thinks he's doing righteous work by saving black lives he's not I mean he he really does and there was another quote of his, he said, listen,

nothing compares to saving a life or something like that. They just, they don't understand what it's like to be on the other end. So they're going to have, he wants congestion pricing. Well, great, I make a lot of money. I'm going to zoom into work now. The middle class people who work for a living are going to pay $80 more a week.

He doesn't care. He can't think that way. But like, if they were to take $80 more a week, he doesn't care. He can't think that way. But if they were to take certain things off the table, like we're going to have limited stop and frisk, or we're going to make the standard for stop and frisk much higher, then all of a sudden, I know this is like a business guy's take on it, Bernie wouldn't like it, that all of a sudden when a certain option is taken off the table, smart people start coming up with other ideas that will work.

But when you don't force yourself, let's just round up. It's very easy. If we pull over a thousand black guys, we're going to catch a hundred or whatever, or five or whatever it is. And we're okay with that and we've saved lives. So therefore we don't have to question ourselves about the trade-off.

It really deserves me. And one of the arguments that's always made and it's true that the biggest beneficiaries of stop and frisk in terms of lives saved overwhelmingly were minorities that's true there were also the worst collateral consequences of it families being destroyed right so but what does it tell you when the people whose lives are being saved hate it? Like, you know, that should stop and say, wait, I got to stop for a second here because, yes, I'm saving their lives. And yet they're furious about it. So maybe there's something humanly, psychologically, I'm not understanding about what it's like to go through humiliations when you're innocent, going to work, getting dragged into the justice system. So, yeah, I'm bothered by what Bloomberg said.

I don't think it means he's a racist. I think it's much more innocent than that. I think he's just oblivious. And I think maybe, I know people don't want to take his apology seriously, but I am ready to consider that he has actually had a second thought. I'm willing to love the one I'm with. Like, I can't stop thinking about that song. Whoever it is.

Stephen Stills? Yeah. Whoever it is, I love them. Can you believe that I'm so opposite of Stephen Frisk? No, because you seem like a Fourth Amendment guy. I just want to say that you lost me with the comparison to congestion pricing, which I think is a fine idea. I've said that, but I don't want to get bogged down in congestion pricing.

Because he can't put himself—he sees an overall benefit, less murder, less traffic, whatever it is. But he doesn't get down to the nitty gritty of who is paying the price for this benefit. Middle class people. Innocent black people. I think that's the problem when billionaires are in charge of making rules. They don't participate in society. They don't participate in the same world the rest of us do. I have to say, Dana, a lot less money than a billionaire Takes you out of that world. That's what I mean Including yes, Bernie Sanders. What about Bernie Sanders know about I mean in Vermont

I mean, you know these issues are not second nature to him either No, he just committed to it. But what I'm saying is that there's plenty of super Tom Steyer is a billionaire I don't know that it's the billions that make somebody... Plenty of billionaires could be very powerful champions for the poor or the sick or whatever it is. None of it will matter if we don't keep our democracy. I just want to say that congestion pricing is good for the

middle class. It's good because it's good for public transportation. That's all I want to say about that. That's the thing I don't understand ever about this president. When he was elected, why he didn't become Mussolini? Why wasn't it, let's do bridges, he complained about LaGuardia.

He could have immediately gotten a bipartisan plan to invest in infrastructure, but he's so busy stealing that it wasn't worth it to him to do anything. We could literally have done something. Fascists are good at stuff. I don't know what the answer is... I don't know what the answer... I don't know what the exact

answer to that is, but I'm sure there's a... There's another answer to that. Because... He's lazy as fuck and he's too busy golfing? No, because he doesn't have to do it.

I mean, he doesn't have to lift a finger. All he has to do is say, I want infrastructure and then people who work for him generate the bill or Mitch McConnell. I mean, he doesn't have to do a thing.

And he doesn't care about spending. And he'd love infrastructure. It's weird, right? I wonder if it wasn't in some way related to this three years that we spent just sucked into this mess where it seems

to me that they were not going to be able to pass any major legislation during that during all that investigating. But I don't know. Why would Trump not want infrastructure? He wants re-election, doesn't he?

Good. Sorry. Dino, what's on your... We could discuss my Mexico trip in greater detail or get to the Abbas Peace Plan. I don't have any interest in the Abbas Peace Plan. Pardon? Where in Mexico? I was in Mexico City.

I love Mexico City. Well, it's a fine town. And I was in Monterey opening for Louis. I don't know if that bothers you that I was opening for Louis. Louis is really talented. Okay. Funny. Okay.

Some people might consider that to be... I mean, he's canceled officially, but I still think he's funny. Dino. Okay. Some people might consider that to be... I mean, he's canceled officially, but I still think he's funny. Dina Hashem, you say what? Do you hold me in lesser esteem because I opened

for Louis Cicay? No, I plead the fifth. I don't want to. Actually, I do have a question for you. Because Dina went through... You can Google it. Dina went through

a whole really ugly chapter where she told a, you know, slightly iconoclastic joke, not even that bad, and she got, you know, a lot of... Is that what you were talking about earlier? She was canceled for a few weeks.

Which leads us to one of our points, which is Dina's DMs, which is directly related. You can do that. Can you tell us what you... I was wondering if that, having experienced that, what it's like to be at the end of that kind of thing gave you any kind of uh a new appreciation for these issues because i because i presume that you were kind of pretty on the left of these things like maybe even about louis and i'm talking

too much but a lot of times when the thing with Louis came up, the cliche answer was, well, he's still rich, as if that's all that mattered. But here, you went through the hurtful part of it. How does that leave you? Yeah, I don't think I'm against mob attacking anybody, except in...

I don't even know what cases that would be okay to do. I think for saying words, at the very least, there's no reason to mob attack anybody for that, the psychological damage and just people, you know, threatening to harm your family even. It's just, it's such an absurd backlash and it just should never happen over words, I think.

Can you just give really briefly a background in case anybody who's listening maybe isn't familiar? Sure. I told a joke about a deceased celebrity who, it turns out, had a cult following of 16 million emo teenage SoundCloud rappers. And so, yeah, it just turned out that I didn't even know about the guy. I didn't know about really anything except for the details surrounding his death. And I just thought of this joke about it, but I didn't know. What was the joke, or is it not worth retelling?

You don't need to retell, but suffice it to say you made a joke about the death of a famous rapper. Right, but it wasn't really about him either, so I don't want to phrase it that way because the subject of the joke is this person's name. But if you swap his name with literally any other celebrity the joke functions the same way so I think that's the test of knowing the joke was never about that guy it's just about the circumstances surrounding the way that he died um he died like buying a he just he was carrying a lot of money and then he was robbed and murdered so the joke was about that it could be anybody it doesn't matter that it was him.

But yeah, whenever you say anything remotely bad about this guy, his fans just attack and relentlessly attack and dox, which I think should be illegal. I think that should be illegal. And so yeah, there was just months of that. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Hey, that's the cost of speaking. Did any way, shape, or form help your career in any remote way?

I'm on the fence about that. I saw people saying, oh, she's going to get a special now. I'm like, well, I still don't have it. So that would be nice. So nothing tangibly, like I didn't receive anything. Even that's nasty for them to say that, right? I don't know. It's a weird thing to say. Well, if you really got the special,

you're probably right. Let's give her a special. Where are you, Netflix? People are always looking for a way to minimize that it's serious, that it's hurtful, that you're going through something. It's kind of like saying, oh, you have a lot of money. Oh, she's going to get a special from it.

Don't cry for her. She'll be laughing all the way to the bank, that kind of thing, you know? It's hard to imagine what it's like when you're not the one experiencing it. It also taught me that, you know, whenever these things would happen to others, I would never really vocally weigh in on social media

whenever something like that would happen. I wouldn't be like, you know, all people are just trying to virtue signal that they're cool or whatever but now that it's happened to me and I know firsthand how helpful it is to have people speak on your behalf and defend you that was really eye-opening and so I think that's really good to do so are you more careful sorry are you more careful about like what you'll say on stage or like does it worry you like do you think no not on stage it doesn't really change what i do on stage it does make me a little hesitant about anything that will go

on record such as a podcast sorry that's what i meant right on tv or well the problem is that people are free to take anything out of context and once you post something there's no retraction there's no editing like let's say someone you know airs a clip of me saying I'm pro-Israel and someone just chooses to run with that. But even though later in the podcast I said, hey, I was kidding. That's the part that never gets published. It's just the initial thing. So it's a very dangerous game.

You're brave. No, really. I was joking about that for the third time. She was joking about being pro-Israel. I am pro-Israel. You want to talk about her deal? Yeah, so you posted, sorry, so you made a post, I think it was today,

on Instagram. A few weeks ago, I think. A few weeks ago, okay, sorry. Of your DMs. This is from that incident. So these DMs are... Well, it's just, like, it's endless, right? It's still going?

It's still going? It's much less than it was, but they just like to check in and remind me. They're thinking of me. They moved on to Ari Shafir, I think. Yeah, he's having his own issue. What did he do? He made

some references to Kobe Bryant was accused of rape and that nobody cared because they like basketball more than they hate rape. And he got death threats. Well, he's also said that he's rape. Yeah. And he got death threats. Well, he's also said that he's glad that Kobe deserved what he got.

Did his daughter deserve that? No. His 13-year-old daughter? No. Well, to be fair to Ari... He claims that he did not know other people were killed in the crash, at least of all young people. But that's what he said.

So we'll take him at his word. But he did say that Kobe deserved what he got. What happens to the comedians is, in my opinion, you comedians can correct me, is that they lose touch. The world just becomes a big puzzle to them. How do you find the funny in this? And they really become detached from the fact

that you can hurt people's feelings or whatever it is. And then part of that is a defect in our psychological equipment because, you know, a lot of these jokes, these outrageous jokes, these naughty jokes, we tell at a table here. Even the day that somebody dies and people will laugh. And then you say it on a podcast. And it's very difficult to understand the reach that you have. You're actually talking to the whole planet now for free, you know. And to understand and think about that, especially if you're a little bit older, you have to relearn everything. So you become, you toss something off, you're a little flippant, whatever it is.

You think it's for your fans. But what's so psychotic is that the same people who are so outraged by people saying things don't give a fucking shit about the fact that there is somebody being raped around the corner from them or 17,000 children who died of

AIDS in South Africa yesterday. So we choose what we want to be outraged about, and then we just move on with our fucking lives. It's a right-wing talking point, but virtue signaling is real. This is deep within the human... Well, I'm very right-wing, so...

But, like, I finally saw the Chappelle special that everyone was outraged about, and I couldn't... Some people were outraged. I thought it was... First of all, I'm not a comedian. I don't know. I'm not what you are, but I thought it was, first of all, I'm not a comedian. I don't know. I'm not what you are.

But I thought it was brilliant and actually extremely moving and filled with empathy and love. And it was obviously a joke. And it was so much about what it meant. And then also the second part where you see him talking to his audience and the trans woman who he actually hung out with. I thought it was beautiful and inclusive. I fundamentally did disagree with Dave when he said that if one were a pedophile, one would molest Macaulay Culkin. He made that point that Michael can't be a pedophile because he didn't molest Macaulay.

I fundamentally disagree with that. Macaulay's got a big mouth. And he'd be the last person I would molest. Because everybody would believe him too because he was so beloved so the joke was funny but it's obvious why you don't choose that guy

when analyzed you understand why you wouldn't molest Macaulay Culkin he believes Michael Jackson molested people no I don't think he does but

everybody say thank you and goodbye to Dina Hashem she has a spot around the corner you know I do apologize Dina for not giving you more a spot around the corner. You know, I do apologize, Dina, for not giving you more air time on this podcast. But hopefully you can come back again if you enjoyed yourself. Yes, thank you very much.

I hope you get a special. She's amazing. Dina, where can we find you online? I want to come see you perform at Dina Hashem underscore. Thank you so much for coming. Dina Hashem and that underscore just kind of lies there? I have to. There's nothing after the underscore?

Yeah, unfortunately. Can you do that? Yeah, you can do it. I didn't even know it was possible. Yep. I didn't know you could have an underscore that was like a dangling underscore. A dangling underscore. Dina's got it.

Dina Hashim. Dina has to end the occupation march. She's got to get to. I want to say, I think you had it exactly right about Dave Chappelle. It's clear to anybody, I think, who has an emotional intelligence quotient above 80, that he's a nice person. He's making jokes.

There's a twinkle in his eye. And he doesn't hate anybody. And we know him. And he extra loves Louis C.K. because it's his friend. It's complicated on that one issue. It was the only issue that I felt like he's not truly getting it. But everything else about it, I thought, especially about the way he talked about white people.

And he's like, I feel sorry for these white people who are poor. The only difference between us is they don't think they should be. You know, I thought he was like extremely. But the thing is, everybody loved his special. The only people who didn't like it are, like, you know, elitists on Twitter. I'm glad to hear that because I had been told, oh, my God, it's so awful. It's low-hanging fruit. It was just funny.

No, everybody loved it. I'm so happy to hear that. There's this famous story already about the Rotten Tomatoes where he had, like, a 60% or 50% or 40% critics rating. Right. And 99% public rating. Meaning, like, everyday people think it's hilarious. But even the critics, I don't understand why they would say it. Because they're Hollywood types. But Hollywood types know what's funny a lot of times.

They're far gone. I don't know. They don't know what's funny. It was so well done. I thought it was so brilliant. But I also thought it was extremely progressive. And the people that think it's not progressive are not understanding the politics that are clear in the special. And I just don't get that.

He was so obviously caring about everyone. And the thing is, to go, you know, this is more difficult. I actually don't know this. I don't think, my impression is that he does not think Michael Jackson's, people who claim to be Michael Jackson's victims are telling the truth. I think if he saw the documentary on HBO, he knows now. Well, no, I think he refers to the documentary. That's what telling the truth. I think he, if he saw the documentary on HBO, he knows now. Well, no,

I think he refers to the documentary. That's what I'm saying. I think he knows. he doesn't, no, listen. You're saying he doesn't think that? I've met quite a few people who've seen a documentary

who refuse to think it's real. Wow. They're in a cult. Usually, no, usually black people and I think it's hard for,

it's hard for people to see. I mean, this is not unique to black girls. Jews are the same way. Sure. I mean, anybody would be the same way. So I don't know for sure what Chappelle thinks, but I've seen it with enough people to know that it's a real thing. But my point is that, you know what, he's allowed to think that. Sure.

But that gets lost. It doesn't make him pro-pedophilia. No, it doesn't. He could just not believe that story, which is wrong. He could not believe the story and he doesn't have to get in trouble for that. You know, you can believe that Woody Allen didn't do it. I kind of do believe that, but I'm in a minority.

But you know, if you're a Hollywood, like anytime somebody says, I don't think he did it, they're like, uh-oh, what's going to happen to my career here? You refer to the communists. The people who were blacklisted, the people who look back at blacklisting as one of the worst chapters in our history, they're ready to blacklist people for much less these days. So cancel culture is really complicated and problematic. I'm so not into it.

And also, look, I'm not going to not watch Repulsion and not watch Rosemary's Baby ever again. That was a Roman Polanski movie. What happens to Polanski's movie about Alfred? About Jacques Hughes? About Jacques Hughes, yeah. I haven't seen it yet. Because I tried to find it on iTunes. I couldn't find it. I don't think it's being released here. So did they bury it?

I don't know. I want to see it so badly. Can you not watch Louis anymore online either? Didn't they take... I don't know. Can you find the Cosby show? It meant so much to me growing up, the Cosby show. I want to see it so badly. Can't you not watch Louis anymore online either? Didn't they take... I don't know. I don't know. Can you find The Cosby Show? It meant so much to me growing up, The Cosby Show. I am reading, however,

a book called D, which is about a fictionalized version of The Dreyfus Affair. Oh, wow. I want to read that. And that got me interested in The Dreyfus Affair.

So I went and said... Richard Dreyfus? No, Alfred Dreyfus. So I went online and tried to find if there's any movies and I found this Roman Polanski movie about Dreyfuss, and I can't find it on iTunes.

I think it was a can this year, and I think it's having a tremendous amount of problem finding domestic distribution. Well, look. But I don't know. I mean, I understand Polanski, you know, the fishy character. Well, the first story about Polanski,

I don't know if you saw the Marina Zinovich documentaries. Like, they're really powerful about how he was willing to go to jail and all this. And then it became like a railroading thing. So for a long time, I was like, he tried to serve his time. It was, you know, he's an incredibly traumatized person after what he survived. And both in the war and then being a child of the Warsaw Ghetto, all of that stuff. And then having his wife killed in his home and his baby living a fetus that maybe was alive that somebody stepped on his head and all of that but now there's other girls who have come forward women who've come forward that

he also like anally raped them when they were teenagers like but didn't one of them say like that they that he had anal sex and the mom was there? No, the original victim that we all know about, it was all, they were totally okay with each other. He settled it. He went to jail even. You've got to say this about the Jewish people. Polanski's a Jew, but none of us, we're all saying, yeah, he fucked her in the ass. Okay. No, I don't think everyone agrees he actually fucked her in the ass.

I'm talking about that. He had a civil settlement, and she said that it's okay. He doesn't need to keep going ass. I'm talking about that. They had a civil settlement and she said that it's okay. Like, he doesn't need to keep going back. Oh, Samantha Geimer?

Yeah. Is that her name? I don't remember. Well, the original one. Yeah, the girl in the hot tub with Jack.

And also, why did Jack Nicholson get away with all of it? He was there. Well, I don't know. I love that she was like, look,

like, he raped me in the ass, but like, it's fine. Don't worry about it. I don't think she thought it was fine. She said she's moved on.

She's moved on. They had a settlement and I think she's an adult and wants to move on. When they use the word... It's one of my pet peeves that the word rape is... That's old enough, isn't it? We don't know what the word rape means. Who doesn't know what the word rape means? The word rape is used for

any sex with somebody underage and also for forced intercourse. No, no, no. There's statutory rape, which is what you said, and then there's rape, which is for without consent. Right. So, what I'm wondering is that when he's accused of anally raping

this young girl, he's accused of forcefully Well, no, he gave her quaaludes. She was 14 years old. Statutorily, it's obvious, right? But he gave her a ton of quaaludes. I mean, it was a different moment. No, no, I just don't understand. I'm not saying it's okay. No, it's obvious, right? But he gave her a ton of quaaludes. I mean, it was a different moment. No, no, I just don't understand. I'm not saying it's okay. Hello, I officially do not think that's okay.

Nobody thinks it's okay. Just trying to understand exactly what the accusation is. I just think that I think with that particular survivor, it's been super litigated and all that stuff. It's just that now new stories are coming out, which is just disturbing. How old was he when she was 14?

He was in his late 30s. I have one more hour to eat before my intermittent fasting window is closed. Oh, wow. I did that and I gained weight. Oh, really? Why do you need to do that? You're skinny. Well, I saw myself.

I saw my profile in the mirror and I wasn't pleased. I didn't feel cute. How many hours are you not eating, 12 or 16? I'm doing the typical 16, and then the eight hours, I just started. It's just hard. And also, I hear there's other benefits, not just weight loss, but diabetes prevention. I don't know if it's true. My mom lost 40 pounds doing it.

No, there is. I just spoke to my doctor. Supposedly, there are lots of health benefits. For the last thing, I just need Victoria to tell Noam and you about Torah Trump's hate because I think they're going to be really interested. Why don't we end with Torah Trump's hate? Okay. Because we are running over time.

Wow. Okay. I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish community, all girls high school. I was just very committed to particular cultural norms. But I'd grown up in a world in which most Jews, even Orthodox Jews, were Democrats. Everyone's grandmother was in the teacher's union. People were kind of normal Democrats. I kind of left the community.

In 2016, I found that most of the people I grew up with were suddenly obsessed with Donald Trump and willing to let go of a million values that I thought were what we were taught. And so on the day of the election, well, November 9th, it was after midnight, I started a private little Facebook group of what at the time was like 20 people to kind of talk about what it feels like to feel alienated from our community about having different politics and then now we're like 3 000 people and we're public and we um we're an activist organization that tries to disrupt racism and homophobia and um other things within the jewish community and also partner with other communities to protest

um and to work for social justice. And isn't like one of your members, like she got like arrested? One of our members, this woman, Sarah Atkins, she is. She's like running for office. She's Lubavitcher. She has five kids. She covers her hair. She's been arrested 12 times protesting all different kinds of things. She just dropped out of the race, unfortunately, because there were so many people on the progressive side of the Democratic ticket

that in order to support the one person who probably has a close to win, the person she's running against is a known Me Too person who's like, watches porn in his office with people. And it's really fucked up in suburban Philadelphia. So if any of you are out there in suburban Montgomery County, but she's kind of amazing. We have this great guy, Elias Rosenfeld, who's a sophomore, I think, at Brandeis,

who's himself a dreamer. His family was religious in Venezuela. They came to Miami. His mom was an advertising executive. Yeah, but that's not a real dreamer. These were rich people that came here. It doesn't matter.

She died of kidney cancer, leaving him and his sister very young with no citizenship. And he is a dreamer. And he's threatened with being kicked out all the time to go back to Venezuela, where it's very dangerous to be a Jew. And we have a whole bunch of, we have a wonderful woman who's an oncologist, covers her hair, you know, also a sheitel, who comes from a Hasidic community, who's an oncology nurse at Sloan Kettering, who runs a whole, like, a whole anti-vax organization

to try to help people. Wow. It's an incredible thing. I know. And Periel is a member of Torah Trump hate. I'm just, you know,

I just like snuck in because of my relationship with you. I'm a member of Trump Trump's Torah. He certainly does Trump Torah. I will agree with that.

As far as Torah Trump being hate, I don't know. I haven't read the Torah in a while. There's a lot of hate in that Torah. There probably agree with that. As far as Torah trumping hate, I don't know. I haven't read the Torah in a while. There's a lot of hate in that Torah. There probably is a lot of hate in there. I've abandoned religion, so. Good for you. That's what people say when Buttigieg tries to say, well, no, you can be Christian and gay.

Well, I don't know about that. But here's an idea. Don't be Christian. Of course, you're right. But, you know, I don't know God's opinion. The God of Abraham, he don't like gay people. He doesn't like them. He also doesn't like people who wear linen and wool together.

But no one seems to be trying to stone people who wear linen and wool. Everybody picks and chooses what they give a shit about. They're in the same context as Leviticus. I need to know, when do you think a gay person is alive? They're alive in a different kind of way. Super extra.

Are we ready to conclude? Did I talk too much? I talked over the comedian girl. Victoria, you're a wonderful guest. We thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. Toru Trump's hate. Frank for current and clans themselves. Also buy Periel's book, The Only Bush.

That ship has sailed. I mean, buying that book now doesn't help me. I'd be sure to go buy the book. I'd like to thank the good people of Mexico who embraced me as one of their own. And what a wonderful. I think you didn't really talk about that at all. I was just in Mexico with Louis C.K. Can you give us like two minutes? But like give us something. Well, we didn't get to about that at all. We were just in Mexico with Louis C.K. Can you give us two minutes?

Give us something. We didn't get to it. So now give it. Well, if you want to hear about it, I was in Louis, Mexico. The Mexicans love me. They love Louis. Is this in Spanish or in English? Is it Louis Mexican?

Yes, it is. Oddly enough, Louis' grandfather was a Hungarian Jew who moved to Mexico. Wow. Louis was raised in Mexico for some point. His grandfather was. And Louis spent about who moved to Mexico. Wow. He's Jewish? His grandfather was. And Louis spent about seven years in Mexico when, as a little kid, came to the United States. He's a dreamer. Came to the United States as a dreamer.

Spoke no English. That's true. That is true. But he very quickly learned English because kids pick up languages easily enough and forgot his Spanish. And so his Spanish now is fairly rudimentary, but he's working on it and he did some jokes, a couple of jokes in Spanish. The crowd certainly appreciated it. I didn't understand them, but

what a wonderful people the Mexicans are. I'm rethinking my whole position on the wall after having performed there. Although I don't know if it's the same Mexicans that are trying to get in here that are going to Louis' show. Mexico City is very... You were pro-wall? I was making a ha-ha.

Oh, okay. How many shows did you guys do? I'm just saying I really appreciate the Mexican people in a more profound way. The St. Regis in Mexico City. They did something called the Condesa RF, which is incredible. I know you should. That's getting fucking edited out. Why?

Somebody says, what he really means is like the Mexican chambermaids Why is that getting out of the way? Why are we not sponsored by Louie? No, because I don't need people like knowing Where you or Louie's staying I didn't say Louie First of all, I didn't say Louie was staying Well, fair enough How many shows did you guys do?

Louie often stays at a different hotel than The Help We did one show in Mexico City One show at Monterrey Which is near the Texas, about three hours drive from the Texas border. Well, that sounds really fucking cool. Which is fascinating. That's Monterrey actually played a big role

in the Mexican War. Not sure what role it played, but it was a big one. And it was in the Mexican War. I'm going to Brownsville, Texas to cross the border soon to volunteer you know it is fascinating

there's this country right next to us you can drive there and they speak a different language and it's a different whole different thing and I've been

is that your first time? no I've been to Cozumel and I've been to Baja but that's not really Mexico that's just Americans going scuba diving Mexico City is an incredible city Mexico City is really Mexico.

Well, I lived in Tucson for six years, so we would drive into Mexico on the weekend. You wrote a great sitcom pilot about that. Thank you. I loved it. Thank you. Someone should make it. If anybody's out there who wants to give Dina special name. I made an incredible pilot

episode about living in Arizona. Or Tucson. Okay. She was a smarty pants in grad school. You went to grad school with her? No, I only met her like a couple years ago. I interviewed her. Noam just looked shocked when you said I was a smarty pants.

Oh my God, so smart. You remind me of Melanie Mehron, incidentally. I love 30-something. Thank you so much. They're re-blending that. You're also redhead. I'm not. I think it's just the light.

My highlights are very not red. They're supposed to not be. All right. Try to get all the red out of it. This is captivating, but we have to end. Okay. Bye. You can send us comments and suggestions at podcast at comedycelli.com.

And follow us at at live from the table on Instagram. Victoria, do you have anything to plug? It's Tara Trump's hate. Tara Trump's hate on Facebook for any left-leaning orthodox or non-orthodox. There's no them. Good night, everybody. Thank you.