The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Evan Barker on Trump, the Left and the Politics of Contempt

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

Noam Dworman, Dan Naturman and Periel Aschenbrand are joined by  Evan Barker, writer and author of the book, Nothing Left. Previously, she worked in Democratic politics, primarily as a fundraiser for progressive politicians and organizations. They discuss she left progressive politics, why she voted for Trump in 2024, and what she believes Democrats have misunderstood about the working class. www.evanbarker.net X: @Evanwch CHAPTERS 00:00 — Evan Barker joins Live From The Table 04:00 — Why Trump connected with working-class voters 07:30 — “They have contempt for the working class” 10:30 — The Left, race and identity 15:00 — Religion, the Ten Commandments and the culture war 19:00 — Why the Left pushed voters toward Trump 21:00 — Why Democrats are losing trust 24:00 — Israel, antisemitism and the progressive left 27:00 — Mamdani, Jews and the politics of representation 31:00 — Feeling politically homeless after 2024 34:00 — What should—and shouldn't—be taught to children 49:00 — Antisemitism and the argument over Israel 52:00 — Plagiarism, journalism and double standards

That was a very fast reboot. That's some nice instruments you got on the back there. Thank you. Yeah. We play music. Is that a Hoffner? Yeah. Yeah, I'm a musician too.

The Paul McCartney bass, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you're not a lefty, are you? No. Yeah. I just saw this kind of really cheesy Beatles tribute band in Jonathan's at a Gunquit Maine. Okay. And my God, they're wearing wigs and they look like a little promagnon.

And I'm like, oh, this is going to be awful. It was awesome. Oh. Okay. They play all the old early Beatles catalog. And I mean, of course, they were weak in certain ways, but they played every part precisely. And you could hear them. And a guy, of course, had a lefty Hoffner and he was doing some of the Paul matter.

It was really fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Take it away, Dan. Introduce. Introduce. Well, I'm not going to get the music. Forget about the music.

Okay. My voice is a little stuffy. But this is live from the table, the official podcast of the world famous comedy seller. available wherever you get your podcasts and in particular on YouTube for that multimedia experience. Dan Natterman here via Zoom, everybody's via Zoom today. Noam Dorman is at his summer home in Maine. Periel, I guess, is at wherever she is, Periel Ashen Brand is here. Yes.

And we have with us from Los Angeles, I believe. The Bay Area. The Bay Area. Okay. Well, California. Yeah, same difference. Evan Barker, writer and author of the book, Nothing Left. Previously, she worked at Democratic politics, primarily as a fundraiser for progressive politicians and organizations.

Her latest piece in the Wall Street Journal, donors make Democrats crazy. A former operative accounts, her time in the world of left-wing political consulting. Welcome from the Bay Area. Thank you. So good to be here. Thanks for not holding last time against me. Oh, wait too. No, don't be so sure.

It wasn't my fault. I'm sorry. So we don't have much time with you. So I want to cut to the chase about certain things, but because people probably are a little bit familiar with you and the basic outlines of the story. Maybe. But when he introduces me from my summer home, now he's needling me when he does that. Yeah. But, you know, I worked hard my whole life.

I'm 64 years old. And finally, we put together enough and we bought a house in Maine. And I mean, the people that you used to hang. around with in progressive politics. They have a complex relationship with that sort of thing because a lot of them have fancy homes too. Multiple homes. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm originally, I live in the Bay now, but I'm originally from the middle of the country, from Kansas City. Yeah. And yeah, I grew up very differently than a lot of the people that I worked with, which was part of my disillusionment, you guys, over time. You know, there's a there's, it's, it's the Democrats don't really like to talk. about it, especially in the progressive sphere. But they, you know, they like to cloak themselves in the cause of the working class, but it is a little rich because many of them are not working class and probably don't even talk to working class people.

And I've never really been to places like where I'm from. And so, yeah, that was kind of a big part of my disillusionment over time was just coming to that realization and seeing the way that they looked at people in the middle of the country that used to vote for them and now support Donald Trump. Yeah, they have contempt. Yeah. So I have a few things to act, but just I just can't resist. You into Allison Krause?

No. Oh, the bluegrass house. Anyway, okay. I know she is, but no, I didn't go to her. Because, you know, you're from the, the country. I like Allison Krause. Yeah, my first concert was Alan Jackson. Yeah, so we'd probably enjoy music together.

So back when Trump first came on the scene, I mean, I have a little bit of it here. So like I, let me go back. I don't know. I don't want to talk to much. When Trump first came on the scene, it was clear to me that there was that people loved him because they detected correctly that he did not have contempt for them. Right. And yeah.

And I remember writing David from, I have the whole, this was a Facebook messenger thing from 2000, like before the last. 2016 saying, listen, I get why you're defending Hillary, but, you know, do you put yourself in the position of these people in the middle of the country who feel rightly or wrongly that NAFTA go to the economy and that, you know, and, you know, they don't care that you find Trump to be a vulgar guy, you know, who grab women because they have to live under policies. Right. So, like, that's what's driving them. People don't want to vote for somebody who hates them, right?

Yeah. And what did he say? He never answered me. Of course. But it's as simple as that, right? Yeah, it is. And it's funny. Even now as I'm making the rounds and doing my book interviews and everything, I'm being told repeatedly, I've talked to a few people on the left that are like, well, it's a shame that you voted for Trump in 2024 because nobody's going to take you seriously now. And I'm like, well, shouldn't they want to talk to me? Shouldn't this be the biggest wake up call ever? there's something really wrong with their party.

And shouldn't they want to talk to people like me? But so, but I think you're right. I think there's still just like this utter contempt for anyone that, you know, didn't, that doesn't buy into what they say and that does feel that contempt. And I think that the whole departure from the working class that happened in kind of like multiple phases.

You could even go back to the 1970s and start looking at how the DNC cut out labor from decision-making at the DNC. But, you know, going to a more modern era, yeah, it was policies championed by Bill Clinton. Yes, that was a bipartisan effort. That's the biggest pushback I get when I bring this up. However, Bill Clinton, you know, if that policy had been passed by the Republicans, which it would have been as well, George H.W. Bush also wanted to sign Napda into law.

he would have been betraying his base the way that Bill Clinton did. And you can see on the electoral map, them start to lose this group of people, especially in places like the Ross Belt in the middle of the country, around 2000. That's when the shift started happening. It wasn't as dramatic. They were still competitive in those places. I used St. Joseph, Missouri as an example in my book. My dad was born there.

It used to be an industrial hub. There were people in my family that, you know, new people that worked at like Lees Jeans factory and all these, you know, factories back in the 90s and they did not have college degrees and they were able to earn really good wages and live middle class lives without a college degree. And if you go to St. Joseph, Missouri today, it's pretty much like half boarded up. I mean, it's really struggling. It's hollowed out. It's very, very depressing what's happened.

And those people have been left behind. And then coupled with all of the cultural insanity over the last decade has been another driving factor, I think, for a lot of working class people that have departed from the Democratic Party. And just to focus on the contempt, because, and by the way, we're going to obscure the left today. But, you know, there's equal hypocrisy and discussing this on the right. For sure. I could talk about that, too. That's why I did not become a Republican, even though I voted for Trump in 2024. So, for instance, we had reporters.

And then I want to go back to something else. We have reporters even, you know, slipping the mask and referring to Trump supporters as toothless rubs and stuff like this. I don't even remember. Like literally people saying stuff like that. And you imagine, well, like, okay, if these were black people who were toothers, this would be, you know, a symbolic of our failure to them. They're poverty. Like, they would never speak that way. They would have sympathy.

But they, they hate the white rubs. That's who they hate. Yeah. And, you know, this goes back to when I went to law school and I was much more liberal when I was in law school than I am today. But there was this, you know, this whole body of cases about school prayer and wanting to post the Ten Commandments, things like that. And even back then, I was like, yeah, I get it. I understand the Supreme Church of State. But, you know, these people derive their morality from the Ten Commandments.

You know, liberals are free to spout morality all the time because they don't have to claim it came from God. What they will do is quote Martin Luther King and then sweep under the rug that he's taking it from God. And I say, you know, maybe just let them have their dumb 10, not dumb, maybe let them have their, you know, their 10 commandments in the class. So what about if there's a Jewish kid and he feels self-conscious about something? I say, yeah, yeah, that might happen. But, you know, maybe we don't, maybe a small number, just have to eat it a little bit rather than, and as a Jewish person, say, well, maybe, you know, we just have to let that go as a thank you for this wonderful oasis of a people in a country that took us in, rather than saying, this is the price that you pay for opening your borders to us people. Now you have to change the way you've been living all these years. I don't like these things in schools, but I don't have contempt for these people. And then the final thing is, and then I always wondered about that. And then as soon as Islam came on the scene. And Islam became a darling of the left.

You can see women dressed in all black. There is no contempt felt for fundamentalist Islam for their desires to have prayer. So interesting. Anything that they want in the name of their religious, Sharia law is treated. Well, let's not jump the conclusions. Let's be inclusive. It's only when it came out of the mouths of white Christians that they were repulsed by it. They'll bend it all to accommodate.

Islam. Am I wrong? I had actually never thought of it that way before. And yeah, that's such a fascinating observation. I mean, you're not incorrect. I often think, you know, I've been told I was on a show last night and they told me that I thought, like I said, that the left wouldn't take me seriously because of my vote. I've thought about like, what if I were a black woman or a Latina that worked inside of democratic politics for a long time and then got really fed up and voted for Trump in 2024 and was writing this book, would I be taken differently by the left-leaning media? And I think I would, actually. I think that people would be like, oh, you know, she got duped. I feel sorry for her. Like, let's listen to her. Let's listen to her lived experience.

But I do think that it's, if there is this, I'm sorry, it's racist. There's a racist element inside of the Democratic Party. And there's also a sex element inside the Democratic Party against men. And that is something that when I became a mom in 2022, that I just could not really go along with anymore. It really, really opened my eyes up. Even before that, I was getting frustrated

by the things that I would hear in meetings and just sort of the denigration against men and white men, and, you know, specifically. But at that point, it just hit a boiling point and I just could not keep going along with it. And I had to speak out against it. So, so, so I'm not advocating not being tolerant to Islam, by the way. I'm just making the just supposing the points of view. But you have, you have a child now.

And I have children. Whenever you have a child and you just something clicks in you. It's like, oh. Changes you. Yeah. My child was born innocent, for lack of a better word. And you are now attaching to my child. all sorts of baggage.

Yes. Yes, that was exactly it. I was like, he's going to grow up and become public enemy number one. Well, lucky for him.

Go ahead, then. Your kids are brown. Regarding the, no, well, actually, I have an Indian wife,

Indian Puerto Rican, but my kids present from total white boy to total Guatemalan, depending on how you look at them, you know. So, but I,

yes, but yeah, I guess my kids are, But I don't think it's fair that any of our heritages are brought to bear on how these kids are judged, what opportunities, any of it. None of it. Yeah, I'm against racism on the left and the right. Like, I don't know if I call it racism, but yeah. Yeah, go ahead, Dan.

You want to say something? Well, regarding the Ten Commandments, I'm not sure I'd call them stupid, but the carved images one. I was using stupid like the way we do in the comedy cell. Who cares about your stupid complaints? I didn't, I stopped myself because I didn't mean to put the touchless words. Which one? The carved images, you know, that one I don't get. But the other ones are pretty good.

Well, don't misuse God's name. The point is, the point is that we liberal, atheist people, I don't know, Evan's position, but, you know, we derive our morality from certain logical principles in game theory and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But religious people say, what are you talking about? It's wrong to kill because of these are the reasons. And how else can I teach my kids these things are wrong? If I can't tell them, it came from God, right?

Right. And I get the rub between that and separation of church and state. I'm not saying there isn't a rub. I also get the rub between that and having a national Christmas tree. Like no, but like, you know, the people who are outraged by this issue, they weren't living in Alabama. they were coming to Alabama in order to disrupt the way the Alabamaans were living. That's what bothered me, you know.

Keep out of it. So this is where federalism makes a lot of sense, which is that, okay, you know, we're all tied together in this way, but we obviously have different ways of looking at the world. Let the people in Alabama, as much as we possibly can live like people in Alabama. We had to draw the line at segregation. I'm not the certain things we had to put a stop to, but not everything. I don't know how Evan feels about it. Oh, I mean, I'm generally in favor of separation of church and state.

I really am. I personally do have a faith in God. I did not, when I was younger, I think I was an atheist, although I was raised in and out of church as a child. I spent a lot of time going to, I went to a Methodist church, and then I also went to a Baptist church and we would go down to the Ozarks and stuff too and I would go to church down there and I didn't really get it for a while but then you know when I lost my dad and my stepbrother I I definitely needed God in those times and now I I have faith I really do I wouldn't say I'm like overly religious I don't go to church regularly but I do pray regularly and it gives me a lot of

comfort. It does come in handy, you know, in terms of loss and grieving. Yeah, it definitely got me through those times. I used to go to New York and just sit in churches and just pray, you know, when I was living there. But yeah, and I think I used to have a hostile attitude towards, like, Christians, and especially when I was younger and working in democratic politics. But now I see a lot of value in it. And I don't regredge anyone for their faith or their religion. I think tolerance is important. You know, it's funny these days, it's not even about those old fights, you know, with evangelicals. It's not really like the abortion isn't really the, I mean, I guess for the liberals, it still is. But, but it's more about these other, I mean, the Democratic Party, the

progressives have gone so far left on so many social issues now that these arguments about the Ten Commandments are sort of dated at this point. You know, it's more about like, okay, is it okay to teach my four-year-old that, you know, he can have different pronouns or that, you know, his gender identity is fluid, right? It's like these new things or that is it okay to teach him that he's irredeemably implicitly racist, right? Which is like what I've seen in a lot of the children's spaces where I live, you know, going to the library.

I've found a book recently that like literally you open it up in the first. page says that whiteness was always a bad deal and that we need to confront the histories of our own family and that it's uncomfortable but we need to understand that our families have done evil things and I just don't think that that's like I'm all for teaching racial justice and civil rights and all that the way that I was taught it in school at an appropriate age and with appropriate language but it doesn't make sense to just make people feel guilty and like they're inherently evil or bad because of historical injustices. Of course.

And that is where we're at now as a society. And then all this other stuff with open borders and defunding the police and abolishing ice and I could go on and on and on. But it's just the Overton window has shifted so dramatically that these are the things now that are turning off regular people. I mean, open borders. Is that sort of a strong? Is anybody advocating for just opening the borders?

to everybody. Yeah, I mean, when I was working in progressive politics, I would hear that all the time. Honestly, I write about it in my book. Yeah, that was something that people openly talked about. Well, and the DSA, yeah, they've said as a long-term goal that that's, that's, that they don't want a border. You can split hairs down, but at the point where Kamala Harris famously said she favored government-funded sex change operations for illegal immigrant prisoners, I mean, what is that but essentially a, you know, a call for open, at least a total accept, an embrace of open borders. I mean, open borders, even if they're criminals, right? And we'll pay for the health care.

She was madness. By the way, and just, I wish I had more time. Maybe you'll come on again in the future. I want to come on again. I'm so sorry that. That's okay. But, you know, they push everything so far. Some of this is, is trite to say out loud already, but it's, it never gets all.

Like, all of us. here and people like us, we were totally on the side of the trans, let's say, right? But then they had to insist, well, no, and trans can be, you know, your daughter's high school basketball team should, could play, I guess a trans female basketball team. Like, no, no, well, you know, if you're really going to push me on that, I'm not, I'm not actually for that, you know.

Oh, you hate the trans. Like, no issue ever has some reasonable, stopping point where you declare victory and you embrace the fact that the country has basically come around to be on your side. That's which is really, but you don't they, they, they never, and on borders on on on any issue you can name, it's they're coming for you and that until they can get a rise out of you almost. Well, I think a lot of people, it got a rise out of you. Part of the reason that people voted for Donald Trump in 2024 is they, they thought he would, they thought they thought that the liberal excesses had gone so far that it was kind of like affecting their life and um you know

a lot of liberals like to wave this issue away and say oh it's such a small number of people you know but it was actually like a rejection of all of that and a way to say like just leave me alone i just want you out of my life i just want this to stop being forced bed to my kids and again like i have trans friends i don't have any problems with anybody transitioning i think like you live your life. You know what I mean? I use the right pronouns. Like I am not a jerk, right? But at the same time, I really don't like it when it's in my child my child's preschool or when it's in library spaces or when it's fundamentally unfair for teenage girls or young girls to be competing with biological males in sports. Can I also add to what you're saying? I think you're going to agree with

I'm about to say. You'd also like to be able to simply discuss it. Yeah, exactly. And the other thing that and this is the argument that I make in the book is that it erodes the Democrats trust. This is why, like, this is my pitch to liberals, right? It erodes your common sense on other issues where you do have authority. So I think the Democratic Party is a lot better on health care. And I say this all the time on conservative shows. I'm like, I support the ACA. I know there's problems with it, but it gave me health insurance. And I want, nobody should have to deal with what I dealt with as a child, which was being denied insurance because of a preexisting condition that I did not ask to be born with, right? That was completely out of my control. And my parents could not always

afford to put me in a high risk pool. It's very, very expensive. And you guys do have better ideas on health care. And you do have better ideas on a lot of social programs. and economic programs, but you erode your own common sense on those issues by not being able to address these questions in a way that makes sense to regular normal people. And I talked to my mother about this. You know, she's somebody that lives on Social Security that has been a lifelong Democrat that did support Donald Trump in 2024. And recently, she was talking to me about the trans athlete issue. And I was like, mom, why do you care about this issue so much? Like, you're struggling to pay rent right now. You're struggling to pay for your groceries and your gas. The economy has not gotten

better. And she said to me, well, you know, Evan, it doesn't really matter what political party is in power. My financial position does not change, but at least the Republican Party has my values. And I think that is the overarching message of my book is that Democrats need to understand that these culture and social justice issues do matter so much to normal working class people. They will never be able to get their health care programs, their economic populist programs through without having a major perspective shift on these issues. They will never be able to build a coalition big enough. They will only continue to alienate people. Are you saying that the opposition on the right to a universal health care system is driven at least in part by

just a distrust and a disgust and a revolt? for everything on the left and that just gets kind of subsumed no that's not what i'm saying i think that people on the right just just you know i think a lot of the voters i'm talking about how democrats will never be able to get their their policies passed if they don't moderate on some of these social and culture issues that's what i'm saying we have you just right oh go ahead no no we have just you another couple issues of a couple minutes so i just want to ask you the one one thing i want to make sure i ask you before we leave and then if we have extra time we talk about business I am, and again, we could talk for hours about what's going on on the right with Candace O's and Tucker Carlson and Alex Jones and Megan Kelly when it comes to Jewish issues.

So I'm not oblivious to that at all. In fact, I think that's become worse than the left. But I am always fascinated by, and we told us forward, Abdul al-Sayed, the ability of this Israel issue, which is fine. they agree with Israel, don't agree with Israel, to become front and center within the as an activating issue, the activating issue. New York City, like Mandani, like this is mostly what he seems to be really care about. Yeah. And I just, since you have a lot of time in those circles, what is like, how do they,

does any of this bleed into, in your opinion, feeling about Jewish people in general? Or is this really just confined as they claim? I actually don't think so. Like when I was working, so I worked for Abdul. I never heard him say anything anti-Semitic at all. In fact, he actually referred to me my only, the only Israeli person I ever worked with in Democratic politics. He helped him get a job. And so in Democratic politics, working for me.

And so I, but I do think that, you know, they really don't like the policies of Israel. And I do think it's a mistake. I agree with you that they're making it the issue, the only issue that they really are animated and the only issue that they talk about. That being said, I do think that the reaction from the progressive left after October 7th was there was an anti-Semitic flavor to it. I can't deny that.

What happened on college campuses was egregious. It was absolutely horrible. and they are alienating people. And I think it's a mistake. You know, my mom, she never thinks about Israel in her day-to-day life. You know, she thinks about grocery prices and her rents and her health care. And that's pretty much it. And so for them to make this their main cause, it's sort of become, I know why they're doing it.

They're doing it as a litmus test. It's like it was Green New Deal, then it was Medicare for all, then it was Medicare for all, then it was defund the police. Now it's being anti-Israel. And they're doing it to define themselves from the main power apparatus of the Democratic Party. But it's just not really an issue that most working class people think about every day.

And it can be really annoying. Like, I find it annoying. And I'm not even like that animated or interested, to be honest with you, in this issue at all. But I find it to be very annoying that it's like all they freaking talk about. And I think it's a mistake. And it's hard for me to tell them that. It's easier for that. It's easier to challenge

A-PAC and the Democratic Party now. And I'm a critic of A-PAC, by the way. I would see how they operated behind it. I didn't like it. But at the same time, it's like, it's just so befuddling to me that this is the only issue that these progressives really, really care about. And it's not going to really help them build national coalitions going into the future. The one thing that really gave me pause all the things that really gave me part. This recent thing where Mamdani appointed 18 legal advisors and lawyers, you know, and there wasn't a single Jew on the panel, which, you know, that that's just not really possible. And he didn't. Yeah. It's interesting to me. I didn't know Zoron. So I, it's hard for me to comment on him. You know what I mean. But he's a pretty good specimen of that thing.

I see it. I see it. I see what you guys are talking about. But this was what was interesting to me. he didn't even feel the need. It was defiant in a sense that he didn't even bend to the idea of tokenism, which is like even like conservatives, they find a black guy. So nobody gets like, like, you know,

even if they don't like black people, they'll pick one. He knew and he said, no, we're not going to have a single Jew. And of course, liberals usually define discrimination in terms of statistical. Well,

it's kind of like, I won't have a single white guy. You know what I mean? It's sort of in the same vein. Like I see that 100%. And you're the mayor of New York City. Yeah. And there's a lot of Jewish people that live in New York City.

So it doesn't really make sense. Yeah. What's your prime directive as the mayor of New York? Well, among the top five has to be to tend to the social fabric of your city. Yeah. So you might do things that you don't actually agree with just as meeting somebody that you disagree with, you know, to show that. we have our issues, but we also have to, we're a family here. So I'm going to bend to you on this one.

But he's not doing that at all, which is, you know, he's failing at his, at, at one of his prime functions as the mayor. Let me ask question. Tell us about APEC. I know people are, I know people heard. I have to go. I have to go. So we can do a whole thing on APEC. 30 seconds.

It's, you know, it's a, it's a group that wants to influence foreign policy. between Israel and the United States. And I think my issue was that they would sort of like go into these districts with like an obscene amount of outside money in primaries. And it's not just A-PAC. It's like I really have an issue with all like any group doing this, to be honest with you. And just sort of like make it this like central issue when like, like for example in Detroit or something, you know, or like the Midwest where like people aren't really thinking about it there. And then they sort of like push candidates to like take their positions that otherwise wouldn't really be thinking about that. And neither does their district really think about it.

And if they don't, then they get like millions and millions of dollars spent against them. And so I would get frustrated by that. But you know, crypto groups do that too. And I also have a problem with that. So it's not. But I think a lot of progressives have a specific problem because of it being Israel. But that wasn't really my problem. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just don't, I'm working in campaign finance, I don't like any of that outside money BS. Like, I think it's just totally corrupting in politics. You, we need to get you back on the show. Okay. I have to go. I'm so sorry, you guys. Go ahead.

Go ahead. Nothing left is the book. Okay. Thank you. We'll add your finer book retailers. All right. Thank you. We're going to continue to talk after you leave.

We're going to go a little bit more. All right. All right. So, Periel, you didn't say anything. She's your kind of doppelganger in a way. Like, you know, you were one of her and now you're one of her. Well, I think she's right. Well, I knew we had limited time.

And despite, you know, what people may think, I don't actually like just to hear myself speak. And I knew that you were really eager to hear what she had to say. So that's why I didn't talk very much. Well, I did not vote for Trump. So there's a difference there. Um, but you voted for Kamala Harris or you didn't vote? Well, I, I mean, it's a complicated story, but I went. This is very difficult, very complicated to say who you voted.

Well, I went to go vote and I didn't know, I couldn't bear the thought of voting for Trump and I thought if I voted for Harris and she turned out to be like some horrible, like anti-Semitic supporter in whatever capacity they were going to dress. that up in. I would have never been able to live with myself. So I was thinking about writing Kat Williams in when I went to go vote. You took the cowards way out and you didn't vote. Well, no.

I went to go vote and then I wasn't registered. So I couldn't vote. Okay. Well, just on on election night. Yeah. As the returns were coming in. Yeah. When there's nothing, it's just two teams playing each other.

Who were you? Who did you? And who was bubbling up inside you that you were pulling for? I wasn't pulling for either of them. I was really somebody had to win. Well, okay, but that doesn't mean that I had to root for one of them. I was really beside myself. Because pre-October 7th, Kamala Harris represented everything that I could have imagined

in wanting someone to represent as far as president of the United States. States was concerned. I know that you guys say that she wasn't that smart and all of those things. But she really did represent a lot of, you know, let's call them the values where I was really pretty horrified. Now you're now you're unburdened by what has been. She's not going to admit that she was rooting for Trump. If she was rooting for Trump. First of all, that's not true. Why wouldn't I admit that? Well, I don't think you would have. Because Dan obviously has low opinion of you no i just think i mean what who am i trying to impress like if that were the case i would say that were the case i think that like i'm really devastated by all of it i feel like

really politically homeless yeah no it's what trump is worse than ever obviously i feel like i didn't change what i think like i feel like i was forced to become this like one issue person I've been streets protesting since I'm like 14 years old for gay rights and black rights and women's rights and LGBTQ plus and trans rights. And after October 7th, suddenly the entire world that I thought I lived in, people were just silent and it was shocking. And some people really showed up, I have to say, in ways that were really impressive. I suspect that at another point of disagreement with Evan is when she said she doesn't want trans being talked about in kindergarten. I suspect that Periel just might disagree with that. I kind of disagree with it because I think that as young as kindergarten, there are kids that might feel that way.

I don't know that it does any harm to say that this exists. Yeah, that's why I made the point. to her because I don't quite know I mean I listen I don't really know I I would not limit the things that I don't want to be discussing kindergarten to trans meaning like there's a whole there's a whole universe of normal regular normal sorry but like a typical regular heterosexual stuff that I don't want to discuss and gender stuff I don't want to discuss in kindergarten I mean these as I've said before these kids are in an age that they believe in Santa Claus.

Like, why are we discussing certain things with them other than to kind of virtue signal ourselves how evolved we are as parents? But the worst part was that you couldn't, if you were unsure, you couldn't discuss it without being attacked as some sort of bigot, which simply wouldn't be true in my case or Perry-Ello's case. I just want to do the right thing by my kids, you know. you know, it's a normal reaction. I, my child had a teacher who was trans when he was in preschool.

And in that case, like, I thought it was entirely appropriate for them to explain to the kids in age appropriate, like, framing. Like, he was like, hey, like, I was born a girl because one of the kids asked, right? And so like I don't or you know if you have a gay teacher and they have a picture of him and his husband like I fully support that. Like I agree with what you're saying. Noam. I don't like this idea that like and by the way, I went to the head of the school and I really advocated for this teacher because some of the other parents complained. And I thought that was really unfair. I thought that he had every right to answer that question. You trust this teacher to make a million other decisions for your kids to keep them safe every single day.

And if somebody asked him, for whatever reason, I don't know what it was. And he said, again, in age-appropriate language, that, like, I was born a girl, but then I felt like I was a boy. And so now this is who I am. And the kids were like, okay. And then they went back to, like, you know, eating paints or whatever they're doing. Yeah, I don't know. That doesn't seem like you're indoctrinating children, right? Like I don't like that either that it's like.

Listen, we know that they do not just on this issue. They do, I've seen as a modern kids. They do indoctrinate kids in the ideology that they consider to be beyond even the line of reasonable people disagree. Like in certain inner city, blue city schools, they just assume that anybody who doesn't believe these 10 things

is, might as well be saying creationism. And they do indoctrinate the kids in a way that, I mean, I grew up in New York City public schools and somehow they managed to teach us without bringing politics into the classroom. This is during the Vietnam

war. And we were not they really to discuss Vietnam with us. us. Like, they don't need to discuss this stuff. They have, these kids have parents. I do not, whatever it is, these issues, I do not my, I do not send my kids to kindergarten to learn about gay, heterosexual, trans. That's just absurd. I send them there to learn to read and write and do mathematics. Well, no, in kindergarten, you're really not learning much of anything. It's just no, but this is coming up in kindergarten or not until high school. do I think they might be considered, but in the end, even in high school, I don't need a bureaucratic second rate intellect.

That's what they are. Let's be honest, teaching my kids how to think, which is going to be just a reflection how the teacher thinks about these highly contested issues. I don't want them teaching them to be pro-Israel. I just don't think that's what they go to grammar school to learn. So, you know, old-fashioned, I guess. Anyway, so what else? Anything else we want to talk about? Well, I've been watching Seinfeld on Netflix.

Just revisiting Seinfeld. And, you know, I've forgotten how brilliant that show is. I think I appreciate it more now than I did when I saw it originally, because I've been doing comedy for a while. And, you know, and then I see some of the same. stuff that goes viral on Instagram and I say, well, have we, you know, it seems like maybe we've fallen a little bit in terms of, you know, what's considered, you know, top comedy. It just signed thought. I just can't believe how brilliant and innovative it was. Yeah, it's the high watermark.

I just watched the documentary about Bob Einstein, Super, Super Dave. Super Dave. Super Dave. Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys see that? No, I didn't see that. It's so good. I mean, you know, of course, Seinfeld's in it and Harry David and a bunch of other. Did you see that the Mel Brooks documentary is phenomenal? No, I haven't seen that yet. The one that Judd made?

Yeah, the 99-year-old man or something like that. Yeah. Just fantastic. So Perils coming up. Yeah. Wait, I want to say something. I'm sorry to bring this back to everything we always. talk about but um uh let me play hot tikhva go ahead go ahead the amount of money that's behind

the dsa um that is propping up anti-semitism in the new york public schools um is really something that i think we should be looking into um i i've been getting messages about how people outside the union don't realize how dangerous this is. But it's very real and it's really scary. What's really scary and this is nothing to do with less the right is that we are seeing a tsunami of, you know, concern with all things Jewish and Israel on both sides. And I just more and more have this.

And so I've kind of been off the news a little bit, like, there's really nothing that's going to stop this. This is going to take its course. And I don't know where it's going to end. I'm not predicting like, you know, rounding up Jews or anything stupid like that. But, you know, well, this was at the root of our conversation with Solman. It's like, you know, Israel, something's got to give. And I'm afraid nothing is going to give. And I just don't know where we wake up 20 years from now in terms of what our

places in society if we want to continue to value the beliefs that we have. And I don't know what can turn that around. I don't know. This Candace. So the thing about Candice Owens, if anybody saw that recent interview, the reason debate she did with that guy, I don't remember his name. it's not that Candace Owens is a new phenomenon in society, a crank anti-Semite, you know, shrill, you know, lying person. There always been these people.

What is new is that she has purchased and is kind of protected by the most elite people in America, Megan Kelly, Jady Vance, like she and these, Joe Rogan, these people will not say a bad word about her. And we were talking about this a couple of years ago,

this innocence by association. Like we didn't even realize how right we were. This is what's new. Somebody's saying the ridiculous stuff that Candace owns is saying about Tyler Robinson, not killing.

Who knows even what she's saying? Because she says six different things. But in the end, somehow Israel is by, behind Tyler Kirk's death, right? There's not a single... What did I say? You said Tyler Kirk, but...

Oh, I thought I said Captain Kirk. Yeah. Behind Charlie Kirk's death. There's not a single shred of evidence. Not a single shred. And it's a fantastical thing to even believe. And yet, it is not cordoned off in any way from the guy who, it seems, is, you know, on track to become the next

Republican nominee for president. And this this is, I mean, I don't, it's hard to wrap our minds around that. Something is changed. Megan fucking Kelly. This is disgraceful. So that's where we're at.

But what do you mean there's nothing like you don't, I mean, there's nothing to do about it or you don't know what's going to change this? I mean, we better come up with something like, there's not another option. Like, it's not just like, oh, we're going to let this run its course. Like, no, we're fucking not. Like, that's the opposite of what we're going on. Well, I'll tell you what we shouldn't do is to try in some way to cancel these people

or restrict them from speaking. We know that doesn't work and is not a good strategy. Nothing worse. So long as. And this is what's. so scary here. It doesn't really get talked about, which maybe means it's not true.

But I've come to believe that the smart Palestinians of a particular agenda understand that the occupation is their friend, that as long as they can continue to provoke Israelis into killing them, as they will always be able to do. And of course, Israel will always be able to do.

with this fucking settlement stuff, this is a whole other tributary of this. But I'm really hoping that after this new election in Israel, there will be a new government that will take control of that situation. But I don't think that will make any difference.

But we should all be ashamed of it. That the world is just not disposed to putting itself in Israel's shoes and seeing this through the eyes of Israel. And it's just never going to end. We're going to become Afrikaners. And if we, whatever, I've said it a million times. So literally, I've just been kind of depressed about it.

I have not been following the news very carefully, which is not a good thing for a podcast host. First of all, I want to say that obviously I agree with you of whatever bad, horrible, behavior is being engaged in should be condemned and is awful and inexcusable. That having been said, and that's not like a throw away. I'm acknowledging that because I think it's important to acknowledge. That having been said, there are things like that that are going on all over the world and I've said this before too and nobody gives a shit and nobody has anything to say about it. That's not going to change. Okay, but half of the people who hate us be quote unquote because of Israel have no fucking idea what's going on in any part of Israel and would not be able to point

out the West Bank or Gaza on a map. So I'm just okay. It's a convenient reason. Okay. But you know, you could say you could have said the same thing about South Africa. I mean, we there was not quite this level. Well, there was a lot of focus and a lot of protests against apartheid. And you know, I'm sure there were Africaners who said, listen, what about going on in Mauritania and the slavery in other places in Africa? Who knows?

And what about in China and Tibet? I'm sure they said all this stuff. But that particular issue, the optics of black and white and race and this activates something. Well, of course, it mirrors our own situation in the United States as well. So you have that plus the fact that it's the Jews.

and I just think that we waste a lot of air. I mean, it's not that we should never make that point, but it's a losing point. We've been making that fucking point for 40 years ago. It's a losing point. We have to move on from that point, and some things you have to, you can't fight City Hall. Israel is going to be an issue above other issues,

whether we like it or not. So we have to address that within that context. And, you know, any time you spend talking about one thing is time you're not spending talking, you're not spending talking about another thing. And that losing argument takes up a lot of bandwidth, just like I felt after October 7th, all the talk about all the atrocities was a losing point. You remember me saying that. Like basically on October 8th, that's saying, get off the atrocities.

Nobody actually cares. you're not going to convince you're not going to convince somebody who doesn't like Israel to like Israel by showing them and there weren't baby heads. I'm using that, you know, just, you're, I. Yes, yes, of course. It was such a poor, important insight, but nobody got it. It's like, yes, we're, even John Pador is like, they put a baby in the oven, you know, and he put it at it.

And of course, we feel this. And it's not like it shouldn't be talked about. It's, it has to be talked about. But it wasn't going to persuade anybody. And it didn't persuade anybody. I don't think that's actually what it's about. Yeah. Well, there's this undercurrent of anti-Semitism that runs through the entire narrative of this.

Yes, but there's also. We have to get off that. Yeah. We have to stop saying anti-Semitism. it's not helpful to there is a logical argument to be made to defend Israel that's historical logical and had and and and we've made it a number of times on this on this podcast and that is the if there's any hope the the hope is in a reasoned argument that is the only hope it is not going to you're not going to convince people that they're anti-semitic by calling them anti-semitic it's not

going to happen. Go ahead. Go ahead. What do you want to say? Piro? I would like to get your take, although if you haven't been following the news, you probably haven't been following this. Is this Jason Ardei story? I followed a little. I thought you'd have a lot to say about it. Well, I mean, I think, well, could you, I don't know anything about this, though. So could you please give me the broad lines? I mean, sure. This is a guy He was a black guy Who was

Hired by Cambridge The youngest black professor At Cambridge ever He had an outlandish biography That included Not talking till he was like A teenager And all of a sudden one day talking

Running 25 marathons in 30 days And like all kinds And then you know And they all look the other way At these stories even though You know They clearly weren't true or would have needed, you know,

one of these stories alone would have been raised somebody's bullshit detector that one person would have four or five different stories. You know, this is, and they looked the other way. And then it turned out his, his academic work was stolen. Somebody finally blew the whistle on him.

And now he, and then he killed himself. So that's all. And then the press like hounded him relentlessly, right? Howl, you know, I don't know. I mean, it was a big story. But, um, You know, I forgot to ask this question to Evan, but just let me say it's very sad, obviously.

Yeah, it is very sad. I mean, anytime somebody kills himself. But at the same time, our friend of the show, Ross Barkin, was fired from New York magazine for 50 or 60 examples of supposed plagiarism. And there are a few examples that were published a few years ago or a year ago. And anybody can look them up. And they're very like a list of somebody who write in New York Times. President Trump ran on the issues of open borders, this and that, and ending Obamacare. and in an article, which he would cite to it, the article, but he would have a paragraph

and President Trump ran on blah, blah, blah, and sometimes Obama care, like he would make a few little changes. These were the examples of plagiarism. And I'm sure that's improper. I don't know if people are normally fired for it, but certainly, and I've been plagiarized. I've sent letters to a major newspaper, and then, you know, and read my own friggin words in an editorial. I have done an interview with a reporter and then read my own fucking words taken by that reporter as his words.

That's unbelievable. Yeah, I have seen that. And that infuriates me. But I mean, and I let it go, but I have the receipts. I even showed somebody who worked at that paper one time. We were skeptical. I mean, she goes, oh, my God.

Anyway, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But what I don't think really bothers a writer is if they find that somebody cribbed a banal list of facts, you know, there's no expression here, there's no personality, there's no original thought, there's not. And in the back of my mind, shoot me in the back of my mind, I worry that there's something in this movement which says, we better hoist a white guy out there. to show that this that we're not just essentially that only black because remember claudine gay was called out for plagiarism although she's still a tenure professor at Harvard just not the president of Harvard anymore but after a few of these minority plagiarism issues i felt like they had to sacrifice barking to somehow and i don't know i have no basis whatsoever for that belief that it just seems to me

that they could have written a comment saying, yes, Ross did this and this and this. He thought this was satisfactory. We disagree. He has promised he would never do anything like this again and make the case that I've made. None of this goes to the heart of

plagiarism. Whatever. So that's all I want to say about that. And I don't think the nation is firing him. I don't know. I don't know. I could be totally wrong about that. Okay. Well, I just, I'd like for you to read up on this a little bit and when you feel like it, because I feel like it's really up your alley. Dan, you've been posting a lot of stand-up clips, much to my pleasure.

Yeah, because it takes me a couple months to forget that, that it's, you know, an exercise in futility. And so then I put, but, you know, no, but on a related note, What mechanism do you have in place to monitor the comedians and how well they're doing? Because I could swear that I have never been better, more original, more creative. Am I killing harder? I don't know. But I feel like I'm killing better.

That is, with interesting stuff. I'll just put it out there. And, you know, and not seeing any, and maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm not. I don't watch everybody else. I could be delusional. Certainly possible. I wouldn't be the only one.

Well, all of you are a little bit delusional. But no, no, you're right. There are things in seller world that we need to tighten up. I don't think we're monitoring. It's impossible. As we get bigger, you know, as we get bigger, As we get bigger, it just becomes a little bit harder to monitor what's going on. And, of course, I'm the most to blame because I don't go down and watch the shows like I should.

I do get feedback from customers all the time. I am aware who people identify that they really like. You know, like, for instance, I get a lot of positive emails about Aaron Chen, just to take somebody who's not here, like, you know, And from that, I have a good, good idea about him, but most comics are not identified. And those few comics, like Claude will actually alert me now in my emails to, because every morning Claude goes through all my email and my text messages now

and then gives me a WhatsApp summary of everything. It thinks I might be interested to know about. And it will play. So, you know, this is the third complaint you've had about this comedian in the last 30 days. Yeah, yeah, it does. Or about, like, we're having problems now with the pineapple vodka for some reason. It's not coming out the way you used to. And Claude alerts me to that.

It's, you know, so, but it's a long-assad. What is going on with this pineapple vodka? You sent me an email about it by accident. Yeah, because it used to be something that everybody loved. And now we're getting some rate of people sending it back. And I don't know why. And I have to get to the bottom of it. Oh, that just, you know.

It's incredible the amount of minutia that you have to contend with. Yeah, well, that's, that's the business. As a matter of fact, I sent an email. It reminds me. I mean, it's amazing. Can you believe that Noam is dealing with fucking pineapple vodka? I'll read you the email. That's part of the business.

I mean, but I assume Liz does a lot of that kind of stuff. But, of course, the buck stops with the owner. the end of the day. Here's the email I sent five days ago, and I forgot to follow up on it because I'm hanging at me. Pineapple vodka. The rate of returns is very difficult to understand given our previous success with this drink.

Can we throw out whatever we have on hand today? Make a fresh batch today with the manager watching as it's made according to the recipe, whatever that is. And let's monitor the returns of this freshly made, properly made batch. and it should be tasty before it's sold. So I'm just trying to get this down to a controlled pineapple vodka

serving that the manager is watching. Everybody signs off is made correctly that the deep state has not had a chance to fuck with and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. And this alone is a very challenging test because yeah, I emailed that five days ago

and I forgot to follow up on it but you know it's not nobody on the other hand I don't know that it happened yet. So I need to get back to the city and get back to work. That's my last week and then I'm back to work. I, well, I hope that works out with a pineapple vodka. And I reject your claim that this is an exercise in futility, Dan.

I really do. We've discussed this for ages. And consistency is part of the recipe of success. I got to be honest with you. I just feel like posting. everybody's post it feels so sad so pathetic everybody scrambling around posting their nonsense part of me has contempt for it well i would like to say i have to be honest with you but there's a different way to look at it which is you have every opportunity in the world available to you

that 25 years ago we didn't have like you can reach the heights of success with your brilliance because you have this machine in your and by the way i want to tell you something else we had eric Newman on the show, which I wanted to plug his show. He also wants to come on. His special just came out. Call your mom. I'm glad you didn't say his special. It's always good to mention things like that on

the show. Go ahead. Are you being, what do you mean? He's a seller of comic. His success is amazing. I'm really proud of him. Mazel to No, it's a great, I saw it. It's fantastic. Go ahead. He's going to join us when we're back in person.

But you asked Eric, because Eric has Do you remember this, Dan? You had a conversation with Eric on the show about, like you were asking him about social media stuff. Yeah, I guess. And do you remember what he said? I don't remember. He said there's no way to really know what's going to go viral,

but part of it is that you have to post regularly. That's it. I'll tell you know what it won't be is a well-written joke. No. All right. Gentlemen, I need to go. Okay, everybody. We had an AC out on Saturday.

Yes, we did. Yes, we did. And I asked Liz to write an email, but I don't see an email. We're going to give all the customers an invitation to come back for no cover. Yeah, that's what I thought you would do. When I was there, I said, you know, I'm probably just comp these people and maybe invite them back. Was it really bad? I didn't think it was that ridiculously awful, but people, you know, I just walked through to go to the bathroom and walk back.

I wasn't sitting there. So maybe it was that bad. Some people really mad. Most of Europe, they don't have air conditioning anyway. Oh, I'll tell that to the customers, yeah. Two, two air conditioners failed the same night.

This is the problem. That's very obviously. Well, I mean, was that a coincidence or they're somehow hooked into the same? I don't know the answer to that. Was it like, you know, Sully losing both engines? It was, no, it wasn't one component. that feeds both. It wasn't like one power source went out and both went down. The independent

failures, could they be related in some way? I don't know. I really don't know. Listen, you're going to hate me for saying this and it's going to infuriate you. But like, honestly, this should be these people's biggest problem in life. Like, okay, that sucks. Like the AC went out. These things happen sometimes. Like, most people on this planet would cut off their arm for that to be like their biggest complaints in life. Nobody wrote me saying this was the worst thing that ever happened in their life. They wrote me saying,

it's like, you go to a restaurant, you pay $100 hours. The steak is overbook. The food sucks. Perio, what are you complaining about? In Biafra, they don't even have rare steak, overdone steak. The comedy didn't suck.

If the comedians were terrible, that would be one thing. But the AC didn't work. It's like, okay, so you were a little bit hot for an hour. I don't know if they were a little bit hot. As I said, It didn't seem that bad to me, but I was in and out. Well, they could have left.

You know, it might. It could have said it's too hot. I can't sit here. I'm going to leave. Not I'm going to sit here, watch the show. All right. I have, I, I have, this is unbelievable to me. I have, I.

This is. And of course, for a yenta, okay. For a yenta does not understand complaining is really, is beyond me. All right. I have to go over and I see you guys. I will see periel in a few days. I'll see Dan next week or. 10 days or so.

Yeah. Good night, America. Bye. Bye. Bye. Stop recording.