The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - From Cranks on the Fringe to Tucker Carlson: How Ideas Go Off the Rails with Jamie Kirchick

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

Jamie Kirchick joins the crew for a sharp discussion on ideology, hypocrisy and why smart people can still fall for bad ideas. A wide-ranging, no-filter conversation about Iran, nuclear tensions, global risk—and the dangers of antisemitism. They discuss everyone from Tucker Carlson and Daryl Cooper to Bryon Noem. This episode addresses serious geopolitical stakes and is part political analysis, part philosophical sparring and part classic around the table repartee. Jamie Kirchick is a journalist and the New York Times-bestselling author of Secret City: The Hidden History of Gay Washington and The End of Europe: Dictators, Demagogues, and the Coming Dark Age. He is a contributing opinion writer to the New York Times and a writer at large for Air Mail. https://x.com/jkirchick

Hey now, this is live from the table, the official podcast of the World Famous Comedy Seller, available wherever you get your podcasts. Dan Adderbin here, along with Nome Dwarman, owner of the World Famous Comedy Seller with locations in New York's historic Greenwich Village and Las Vegas, Nevada at the Rio Hotel. We got Periel Ashen Brand joining us, as always. And in studio, privileged to have Mr. James, Jamie Kirchick, author of Secret City, and The End of Europe. Sounds pretty ominous.

Contributing writer at New York Times opinion, columnist at commentary. Writer at large, Amil Weekly. Welcome Jamie Kirchick to the program. Is that your McLaughlin invitation? Well, somewhere between McLaughlin and Don Pardo. It's a great combination. And now do the Michael Moynihan invitation.

I can't do a Michael Moines. I can't do a Michael Moines. I don't do a good Finkelstein. And it's not as good as Michael Moynihan. For those of you who tune in here to hear an argument and, you know, somebody leaving crying. It's not going to be that kind of show today because with Jamie Kurchick and I, we speculate we probably don't disagree on anything.

Anything. Well, actually, there is something we disagree on. And I've mentioned this to Periel. It is your credulity in befriending people like Daryl, what's his name? Cooper. Daryl Cooper. Daryl Cooper. And being shocked, and being shocked upon discovering that they are indeed anti-Semites.

and you hold out these hope for these people. And it's like, oh my God, I can't believe that the guy who says Churchill was the enemy of World War II. I can't believe he doesn't like Jews. I tried so hard to convince him to like us and to like me, and now I'm shocked. That's not a disagreement, really.

I think we have a disagreement on human nature. Yes. Let me just make your case even more strongly with you because it's not that he said that Churchill was a villain of World War II. He said that Churchill was in the war. installed by Zionists, which is the really Jewish thing. But to be fair, when I first befriended him, all I knew about him was this pain and, what is it, fear and loathing in Jerusalem, which I,

which was like an kind of anti-Israel podcast, podcast about the conflict, but it was within the boundaries of, and then he is quite an insightful person, like, like some. there are these people who are very, very talented, like Dostoevsky, right? Like, very, very insightful, anti-Semites, and you, he's like, there's like Darth Vader. There's good in him yet, you know. I wouldn't put Daryl Cooper in the category of Dostoevsky. I wouldn't anymore, but at the time, that's his favorite writer, by the way. No, at the time, and to this day, I was impressed by certain things, certain insights that he had.

He had one podcast at Easter time, which really showed a, I thought, a depth of understanding of human nature. And then very quickly I began to say things, and I interviewed myself, listen, I think you're conflicted. I think you blame the Jews for killing Christ. I didn't deny these veins in him.

And then I had a private correspondence with him where he would actually take tweets down that I pointed out to him. He would say certain things. Maybe he was fooling me, certain things to me about, this one's an anti-Semite, that one's an anti-sumai.

But anyway, at some point, he did seem to go full Nazi. And then, of course, Mother Jones did an article, which showed that he was actually full Nazi many years ago. So, yes. But, you know, having said all that... But you still like talking to these people. Yeah, I was going to say, I could still find it interesting to know these people

and speak to them. Daryl Cooper more than some others, because he does feel, if you have a one-on-one conversation, you're the guest, you're supposed to be talking about. But anyway, if you have a one-on-one... It's fine. If you have a one-on-one conversation with him, he does feel the intellectual obligation to be factual.

He's not shameless like some people are. If I say, well, Darrell, read this. He will bend and try to integrate that into a position. You can have a fruitful conversation with the guy one-on-one, but then he will go off the rails now on Twitter, and that's when, you know, we finally parted company. Yeah, he disappointed me. But, yeah, so I plead guilty, but it's a little bit more nuanced than now.

I'm not just, like, totally fooled by these people. Even if he had presented himself as he actually is, I still would have engaged him. You know, anyway. You're a nice guy. No, I find it interesting. I find it interesting, too, but there comes a point where certain individuals just aren't worth engaging. There's all these people now interviewing Tucker Carlson. And I just don't think that Tucker is worth interviewing.

I think he is a. knowingly malignant person. Much more than Daryl in my view. Of course he is. He's much smarter than Daryl. Tucker's, I know Tucker. I've known Tucker for a long time.

Very smart, clever guy. Evil, right? Because he's not like Candice who was clearly dropped on her head as a baby. Right. Okay.

Tucker is a, no, she's like seriously ill, okay? And just a sociopath. Yeah. Tucker, you know, this is kind of a late,

you know, he's like in this mid to late 50s, okay? It took a while for him to get to this point in his life where he decided to become, you know, what he's now become.

which is like the foremost anti-Semite in the Western world. So, you know, he's really into this now. And I just, there's no, you know, like the editor of the economist had an interview with him. This is like, this is not, this is a waste of everyone's time. He's not, he's not worth engaging. Where do you draw that line between mental illness and just, and not? I mean, why does Candace get a pass, you know? Well, because I don't, I don't think that she has the intellectual capacity of someone like Tucker.

Like, Tucker is a knowledgeable, smart person. He's been around the world. He's read a lot. He knows a lot. He knows what he's doing. Whereas Candace is literally just like, how do I get in front of everyone's screen as much as I can? And anti-Semitism is always going to serve that role for people.

And she's decided, well, this is the way to do it. You know, this is the way to reach fame and infamy and notoriety and is going after the Jews. And whether, like, she really is in her heart, she really honestly believe this stuff about the Jews. I mean, probably she's maybe convinced. herself of it at this point, but I really do believe, because she's tried on so many costumes throughout her career, right? Like, at first she was a liberal who was going around accusing

everyone of being racist towards black people, and then she switched and became a black person who would go around, you know, attacking Black Lives Matter all the time, okay? And then she became more of like a mainstream conservative and was working for Ben Shapiro. And then she decided to become like a crazy, you know, superstitious, like anti-Semite, talking about, you know, satanic Zionists and whatnot. And so I just, I think it's just a kind of self-promotion stick for her. Now, now you use the phrase with Tucker, maybe it was just, you know,

you didn't mean to put so much weight on it, that he decided and that he decided to take this, become this person. Years ago, I had a, it's funny how, you know, things happen in your life and they inform you for other things, or at least you think they do, I had a bartender who was, his name was Robert, and we loved him.

and he was a great guy. And the story with him ended that he stole a lot of money. I said, Robert, how did you, like I can't believe you of all people stole all this money. He says, you know, he started out with, I was short on money and I borrowed $20 from the bank and I put it back the next day. And then I began to do that for a while. And then one day I wasn't able to put it back. So I was like, I was into for like $20, $40. and then

before I knew it I was a thief and then once I was a thief I didn't care anymore I just surrendered to it I think Jamie would have sniffed him out yeah and I thought that

and I think that that's an analogy for often the way people become things it starts with little compromises little things and before you know it you're knee deep in it and then just surrender to it I imagine that Bernie Madoff didn't concoct this whole scheme he started out by you know paying

robbing Peter to pay Paul Fuck it, right? Did Tucker decide, or was it like little... That's interesting. I mean, he was a supporter of Ron Paul in 2008, the 2008 presidential election. And that, to me, is always a sign because Ron Paul was a crank and a lunatic.

And that year, when I was a very young journalist at the New Republic, I discovered these crazy newsletters that Ron Paul had published in the 70s, in the 80s and the 90s, and it was full of... Yeah, if you remember that. I do remember that. conspiratorial nonsense. You were Moynihan

were always pulling people's cards. You had to have a talent. You sniff it out. Yes, this was a long time ago. And it kind of, it really revealed Ron Paul. And like, he probably didn't write

the newsletters himself. In fact, we're almost positive he didn't. It was some guy named Lou Rockwell, who's like a nutcase libertarian fanatic in Alabama or something. But like,

he allowed this to go out under his name for decades, right? And to me, like, if you were okay with that in 2008, and if you were just like going to brush that off as like being, oh, whatever.

It happened long ago. That to me was a bad sign. It's kind of like there's this guy. He's like a weirdo, crazy far-right podcasting guy who says he's a comedian. His name is Dave Smith. I don't know if you've heard of him. So he, he's like a purported comedian, I guess.

I don't know. I've never seen him tell a joke before. He's a real comedian. Really? Okay. Well, you would know since you're in the business, but I've never heard him say anything funny in my life. I found out at one point. That's like 85% of the comedians I know. I found out at one point. No, I found out of that. I'm like, where did this Dave Smith guy come from? Like, what was his political coming of age or awakening? It was the Ron Paul 2008 campaign. And that explained everything to me about this guy. Because the Ron, they call them Paul Tarts

for a reason, okay? And you see it with these people who become so obsessed with Ron Paul. and he's like, he's this, you know, this straight man who never bends to the wind and always stands up for principles and, you know, doesn't take money from anyone and he just believes in the Constitution and what the Constitution says. And they're in that, like, if you're like in that universe of like the Ron Paul verse, that to me is a bad sign. And it kind of explains everything that comes out of Dave Smith's mouth is that he like has this Ron Paul obsession dating back two decades. And Tucker's Genesis is in Ron Paul? Tucker, well, Tucker, this is the thing, Tucker's always been of that sort of, he's always been in that milieu, of that kind of like old right, paleo-liberate, paleo-conservative, Papu-canon-esque world, even though there's this clip of him on C-SPAN that you've probably seen from the late 90s, early 2000s, when he wrote a very critical piece about PapuCannin, calling him an anti-Semite. Yeah. But that's, there's so many things going on with Tucker, because it's like his father was a total neocon.

And I think there has to have been some kind of weird, edipole shit going on with him and his dad, because his dad was like a big supporter of Israel, big fan of the Jews. He was the chairman of the Foundation for Defensive Democracies, this like neocon think tank. And you couldn't find the man more at odds with what Tucker's saying. And the brother is even more extreme than Tucker. The brother's just an alcoholic. I'm sorry. And I can say that as someone who knows what he's talking about.

Buckley just strikes me as a, you know, he probably needs to go to a meeting at some point. because just his behavior on Twitter and whatnot. Yeah, but I get drunk, but I don't start, you know, hating the Jews. Oh, he's clearly an anti-Semite, obviously, but this is, he's sort of like, he's like, he's at the poor man, Tucker Carlson. But is it a drunk, poor man, Stucker Carlson? But is it just total coincidence that the two brothers both are so extreme in these ideas? Well, again, I don't want to psychologize them too much.

So I don't know what's going, and then there's like the mother who abandoned them. You said it's an edible, edible complex that you don't want to cycle. Well, I'm not a PhD. I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm saying there's a lot going on with that family. The mother left them when they were boys. So that's got to have an impact on you. I'm sorry.

Your mother abandons you when you're, you know, two or three. Did she? For the most part, yeah. I mean, I still speak to her, but she... That must have had an impact on your life. The reason it didn't... I mean, who am I to say that it didn't? I don't have the alternative timeline.

But the reason I don't believe it had a significant impact on me is because I had a father. who was larger than life and very insightful and really stepped into the void and made sure that and buffered it in an extreme way. Wow. Yeah. But you of the troubled child theory, you know, might say that you also just had the mental fortitude to withstand that kind of impact.

I do believe I did, but I don't think I'm. immune to trauma, but yet my father really protected me from the full extent of the trauma that I might have felt in that situation. My parents separated when I was like five years old. It is also worth noting that your politics couldn't be more at odds with your mother. But that happened much later. I'm just saying I never had the feeling of being of abandonment. I really didn't. Anyway, whatever. Look, it doesn't matter. It really ultimately. I wasn't totally, it's not like I never had touch with my mother.

I don't even know it's a situation, but I did, my mother was out of my life. Like I could have, if I was a fucking basket case, people could easily say, well, look at his childhood, right? Or they could say that you're the opposite of that in how long you've been with Juanita and what a present parent you are in reaction to that. I just feel like this is, if somebody hears this, they think I'm bad-mouthing my mother. She has her own mess with my father, whatever. It's not about me. No, no, not at all. But, but, yeah, yeah.

Okay. I mean, my mother's a great grandmother. My mother's all right. Yeah. I mean, look, why or how Tucker came to be what he is is is ultimately not that important, I think. Well, there's, it's of academic interest, I guess. But I really like this. I would like Jamie's take on, for example, selfishly, Norman Finkelstein, who I just was saying before the show,

I watched a clip today and wanted to, like, literally claw my eyes out. Who, let me remind you, like, two years ago, three years ago, I guess it had to be before October 7, he wrote that book, I'll burn this bridge when I get to it. Is that what he called? Isn't it his memoir? Yeah. The anti-woke thing.

Yeah. And you would text to me like, I'm agreeing with Norman Finkelson. I think I listened to him on your podcast or some other one. No, it wasn't mine. He was talking about his book. Yeah, it sounded fascinating. It's a good title. Yeah.

So this is about, I don't want to psych. I don't want to psychize him. Norman Finkelson recently did a clip, and maybe I'll have to cut it in, where he just dumped on all the anti-saclestonelian. submitted conspiracy theories. He dumped on the fact that that Trump was controlled by Israel. He dumped on the fact that J.F. killed J.F., the Jews are mind killing J.F.K. He's another one, like Daryl Cooper, who does feel constrained in some way by facts, or like Daryl Cooper, I used to think. Like, if you read a Norman Finkelstein book and check his footnotes,

they're fucking accurate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas if you read a Rashid Kalidi book, the footnotes are total bullshit. So I respect Norman Finkelstein, you know, this, There's a spectrum, right? Yeah. Like, I feel like I could have a conversation with Norman Finkelstein that was productive. I also think he's a little touched. I think that... And he hates being Jewish, and his mother was a Stalinist.

I know there's all kinds of things going on. But yet, he and I could sit down and look at some facts, and he won't pretend the facts aren't true. Whereas Tucker will talk about aliens and, you know, the Jews actually forging Bibles. like there's no limit to him. No. And like the whole idea of aliens and satanic beings living under the sea

and being attacked by demons and the U.S. is studying alien cadavers and he says this all as fact. I do not know how to comprehend this or process it. Maybe it could be mental illness. That's what I've always said. Or he lost his show on Fox which was the most famous,

had ever been having this Fox show. And he got addicted to that. And like with Candice, he realized how am I going to stay relevant? And it has to be something. But he was already cracking on Fox. He was already like into anti-Ukraine and saying in conspiracy theories. The anti-Ukraine thing is unfortunately

a mainstream opinion. No, but he would say we have, there's weapons labs, bio-weapons labs in Ukraine. Well, you know who also believes that? Tulsi Gabbard, our fucking director of national intelligence. But he had no evidence. He had no evidence. And he would roll a guy out, like a paraplegic out in a wheelchair and say, look, the vaccine. Yeah, right. It was crazy.

Yes, it was crazy. And he said that the whole, the Mueller investigation was all really about Podestis brother. He was fucking crazy. And he would speak really badly about immigrants being filthy and things like this. That was not, I don't think that was new for him. I think he always had those attitudes. That's one position. It's not that I've changed so much.

I've changed a little bit, but it's very significant. You think immigrants are filthy? No, I've moved to the left on immigration. Oh, really? I was never to the right on it. But after I went to Mexico, and I, well, there's a couple things. I went to Mexico.

When did you go to Mexico? Like four or five months ago. It's the first time you've ever been to Mexico? The first time I went this way. I went to Oaxaca. Okay. And I went with somebody who really knew Mexico, and we went to remote villages.

and I really experienced it. It's a great country. Fantastic. And, you know, I mean, the reason I've always been positive on it because my Mexican employees are fucking fantastic. I've always said this. Like, you know, one of them does the work of three homegrown. And this I have never shifted on.

But I've always been put off by the fact that if you speak to them, they're pretty anti-American. There's no denying it. Really? Yeah, yeah. There's no denying it. They view America, we took 40% of their land, you know. They view America as kind of the evil.

player in their kind of national narrative. And if you ask them, would you want your kids to fight for America? No. Do you plan to stay in America? No, I'm going back. Like, this always turned me off because I come from an immigrant household where... You romanticize America. It would kiss the ground. But then, I was always aware that, first of all, you need the labor. Second of all, other, you know, in Europe, they have this problem, and they take in, like,

North Africans who are really not compatible with the thing. And we have negative. population for fertility rates of our own people. So we have to be realistic. And the fact is, if you took the average, like, indigenous-looking Mexican and you imagine him in a regular European, you would not know the fucking difference. These people are like us overwhelmingly.

There's no big difference between us and the Mexicans if you couldn't see the difference. And they're fantastic workers and they're Christians. And I'm like, yeah, take them in. like, what are we doing here? Orderly, change the law, whatever it is. And we will just have to cross our fingers and hope that this social fabric issue, which is not bullshit.

It matters. It matters that it's much better if immigrants come here appreciative and want to become Americans. That's a better thing. The melting pot is good. But we have to, like Iran, which we want to talk about, you have to deal with in the realm of what's possible. And just a dwindling American population is not a good out.

come. So take to the Mexican. So like I just, I've just shifted a little bit more optimistic. I'm going to give you, I want to give you an opportunity to explain what you meant by and they're Christian because you probably get some reaction to that. I think it's self-explanatory, this has basically been a Christian country. America's always

been, and I actually liked it better when it was a 96% Christian nation. God bless the Christians. They took us in as the Jews, right? Yes. It burns me up. It always burn me up that this gets to something else. Those Jewish ACLU lawyers suing the town for having the Christmas tree

on the park. Abs so fucking looting. This bothers you, right? You blame it. It always bothered me. You blame the lawyers or you blame the judges that ruled in their favor? They're all Jews either way. He had a hat. You know the joke? No, what's that? What's that from? It's an old

Jewish joke, or the... You want to tell it then? It's Gilbert Godfrey's favorite joke. We've told it on the show for a day. A woman, she's at the beach with the sun, the sun gets swept. Baby. Swept away, and a wave comes and takes the sun, or the baby away. Shut up, Terry. And she's praying to God, please God, just bring him back.

It's all I ask. And then a wave comes and just gently puts the baby back on the beach. I know the punch is, she says he had a hat. Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. He had a hat. So that's us. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know, he had a hat.

You know. This Christmas tree is, you know. I mean, there was a. Oh, it says here. freedom of religion. No establishment. Well, it does say that, but... Oh, whatever! Well, you know, okay, there's a few lawyers that

might have done that, but to think of all the Jews that wrote Great Christmas. Like my father used to told me, it's not enough to be right. It doesn't fucking... I also think just technically, is a Christmas tree, a Christian symbol? There's nothing about Jesus. It's a seasonal... Well, was anybody suing about... It's a seasonal thing. People were suing about the Ten Commandments, were they saying about Christmas

or the Krasch, the Nativity scene. Yes, they did sue about it. I would let them have whatever they... I do, too. I don't really think it's a problem. It's not a problem. It technically might be against the law, but the ACLU should have more important things to be doing. Yes, yes. And it alienates them. And it alienates people.

And then I used to say, and this was really come true, I used to tell people, why are you putting, because us Jews, you know, you're a rare breed because you were always a conservative and on top of us. I'm not conservative. Well, I'm classically liberal. As most conservatives? Is that conservative? I don't know if it's conservative. Well, that's interesting. But leaving that aside, because I'm probably with you, but I think I...

You consider yourself a conservative? Well, I'm conservative in a sense that on tax policy and markets and things like that. I'm... Libertarian. Pretty damn conservative. Okay. Anyway, I tell Periel, I say, you know, the right wing defense Israel while you leftist, and she was very left at time.

Indulge your social justice, id, and the Democratic Party, you know, And then if you say, but they defend Israel, you disparage them by saying, well, that's because they're a bunch of religious fanatics. I'm like, well, why do our people like Israel? It's a religion. And I used to warn her in many people. I said, the day that the right wing just becomes as anti-Israel as the left currently is, the whole thing is going to go into a free fall.

Remember me saying a free fall? And sure enough, now we're seeing it on the right. and this is allowing and giving permission to the left to become even more. They're becoming, this is the subject of a piece I have coming out soon. They're all friends now. The Fartland, Chank Uighur and Tucker Carlson, the two of them. Like peas in the pod. You know, the Pod Save America guys, oh, Tucker Carlson, he's really asking important questions.

It's the horseshoe theory. It's horseshoe, but also when the alternative comes to meet you, then you don't feel any pressure anymore to have to have. to tow any kind of line. Like, where are they going to go? To the Republicans, are just as anti-Israel as we are? Right, right, right. So, and this was my worst nightmare coming true. I mean, it's really bad for the Jews now, right? Jamie, tell us about that.

No, I started getting really concerned last summer when I saw Tucker really moving into this realm of just like out-and-out anti-Semitism. And, you know, he gave that speech at Charlie Kirk's funeral. About the homicesters. About the homicaders killing Christ and killing Charlie Kerr. And that was so blatant. And it was in front of a audience of millions of people around the world watching it. So blatant that Nick Fuentes called him out for it.

Nick Fuentes is now the voice of reason. Where you see him regularly coming out and being like, this is just ridiculous. I would like to make Nick Fuangelo. They're accusing the Jews of too many things. The Jews are guilty enough. But at least he acknowledged that hummus has a long history among the Jews. It does. It's actually Arabic food.

Let's see who we can. Anyway. I probably predates... Anyway, I've been very obsessed with this topic since last summer. The right-wing anti-Semitism. And then the whole Heritage Foundation, Mishigas, happened. Kevin Roberts. Kevin Roberts and defending Tucker Carlson and all these people left that institution.

And it just seems like Tucker's... You know, Tucker's very tight with the vice president of the United States. His son works for him. So let me ask you this. We hate Donald Trump. We find him vulgar, boorish. He says things we're ashamed of. I hate Vance Moore.

He's a liar. What American politician would you prefer to have as president right now? Marco Rubio. Markerubio. Yeah. Many, Paul. Many. So you think Marker Rubio? I'd rather have Ted Cruz's president.

I'd rather have... Ted Cruz is more interesting. So you... I'd rather have John Federman. I voted for John Federman in the last election. I wrote him in. Do you think... Do you think... Well, I'm presuming maybe you don't, that you support this military action in Iran.

I do, yes. You think any of those people you named would have done it? All of them. Absolutely. They would have. That's interesting. Ted Cruz? John Federman?

I don't know. Why? Because it was a big decision. I know that, but they're on the record of having supported it and supporting something like it for a long time. I don't know. I don't know.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it needed some kind of whack job person who just didn't care about consequences. I would have not thought that Rubio would do this. Maybe, I don't know enough about Ted Cruz. I think Cruz would have done it. Okay, so you want, give us your position on Iran now. Well, it's hard to tell, but I definitely think that the media is covering this from a completely,

basically rooting for us to fail. I mean, I think they really do want this to fail. Thomas Friedman said it out loud. He said it out loud. And I think he, I appreciate his honesty, because I, I, I, I appreciate his honesty. because I do think that he was basically expressing the views of his class. Tell everybody what he said, if you remember. I didn't see the whole clip, so I can't speak entirely.

He said something along the lines of, I don't want to admit this. I'm torn. I'm torn because while it might be good for the world, if this were to succeed, it would help politically. Something like that. B.B. and Trump, who I think are the two most destructive men in the world right now, and anything that would help them politically is bad for the world. even though this mission, if it goes well,

could actually be very good for the world. Right. Which I think is how a lot of people think. Few of them have the honesty to admit it like Tom Friedman did. This was a, this was a, this was reminding me of a, of when George Bush 43, is that? When he was pushing this surge in Iraq. Yes. And I thought it was the right thing to do.

Yep. And everybody was rooting for it to fail. Yes. Including Hillary Clinton, who had. a whole thing against it. And, you know, it's, I mean, it's, no person is immune to the psychological dynamic of, you're on record about something,

someone's your enemy, and it's painful to see them turn out to be right, painful to see them succeed. But you've got to get a hold of yourself. Yes. You know. When the country is at stake or when the national interest is at stake. And especially with, with this particular case with Tom Friedman, it's so petty.

Yes. Like, he knows, he's top one, percent of knowing fully how much the entire cauldron of the Middle East is because of Iran. October 7th is because of Iran. Everything is because of Iran. The peace process. Syria, Yemen, Lebanon. But at least he allowed that Trump and Beebe's ascendance is also bad for the world. So you've got to balance those two things.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's, he's being attacked somewhat unfairly, actually. I think a lot of people, Tom Freeman, I think a lot of people attacking him. him or doing so in kind of a disingenuous way. He was honest in saying what a lot of people often think about politics, which is, you know, if you genuinely, look, if you think that Bibi and Trump becoming more powerful or more popular or gaining success in one area is going to enable them to commit other crimes

and problems and act in ways that are detrimental to, you know, global health and, you know, global health and human happiness, then there is a legitimate question to be had somewhat. No, you don't think so? I'm being too charitable to him. If I were Tom Friedman and I was trying to be honest, I would say, look, I have to admit, I hate these people so much that I find myself rooting against them,

but then I get a hold of myself, and I realize that nothing can be better for the world than getting rid of the Iranian regime. I think he sort of kind of said that. Okay, so if that's what he said, that's fine. And then, you know, I don't even understand. I'm not that informed about Israeli politics. I don't fully understand why people hate Netanyahu as much as they do.

I look at the progress that Israel has made under his administration or, you know, under his tenure. And it's tremendous. Like the country has just progressed tremendously. He's got the Abraham Accords. Hamas... There are a lot of people who blame him for the failure of having a two-state solution. You can disagree with him.

Do you blame him for that? I don't think he's helped by having formed alliances. This coalition, having these legit fascists in his coalition, I think, has been very bad for Israel. Okay, that's relatively recently, right? Well, it's the past three or four, four or five years.

But they were blaming him for the end of the two-state solution prior to that. But this is not helping to have these two people, the Smotrich and Ben-Givir. Who we all agree on that. Fascists. I mean, they're Jewish fascists. I don't know how else to do you. They're disgraces.

They're just they're Ashanda. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. A lot of people on the left in this country, Democrats really don't like him because they saw him as interfering in our domestic politics, particularly the speech he gave in 2015 against the Obama administration's nuclear deal.

And they thought that that was, you know, you had the whole black caucus refusing to go to that because they took it as a racial. a front that he was sort of acting inappropriately towards the first black president. I think that's sort of ridiculous, but there are a lot of Democrats who weren't black who had, you know, they thought that this was inappropriate.

Like, you are a client state of the United States. You don't come to the House of Representatives and give a speech rebuking the president. Well, you can brush that off. No, no, let's stipulate he shouldn't have done that. He was the president of the United States. You know, the majority of the American people elected him. you know, that's the foreign policy

that he was elected to implement, and I didn't like the Iran deal, and, you know, you didn't like the Iran deal, a lot of people didn't like it. Was it appropriate for him to do that? Even if he was right on principle, which I think he was, because I think the Iran deal was bad,

did he really have to go to Congress and make the speech? Seeing how detrimental that was to the relationship with the Democrats, was it really worth it? Now, look, this is a chicken and egg problem, because a lot of people would say, you know, on the Democratic

side that, well, Bibi was two right-wing, and he, you know, went to war against the Obama administration. But people on the Bibi side would say, well, the left was already heading in that direction. And Barack Obama was, with his policy towards Iran, was, you know, overturning decades of bipartisan foreign policy towards the Middle East. The Democratic Party is moving in this left-wing anti-Israel direction. There's really nothing that Benjamin Nett, you know, who could have done short of, you know, surrendering the country to its enemies that would have appeased these people. And so I think, I think, I think, I think, you know, I think that's where the debate is. And I think that there are legitimate people on both sides.

And there are legitimate points to be made on both sides. I tend to obviously side more with the, you know, right-of-center argument that the left has been heading in this direction for a long time. That it would have gone there. It would have ended up where it is today, regardless of who was in power. Would you say that his speech against Obama in front of the House of Representatives was a Jewy thing? What do you mean to Jew? Hutzpah? The same thing that you said about the lawyers trying to get the Ten Commandments out of the school. I think it was inadvisable.

Yeah, I don't think, whatever the benefits were of doing it, like he can speak, he speaks at the UN, he goes on TV all the time, he speaks fluent English. There's no shortage of BB and Netanyahu in our faces, okay? Did he have to do that particular speech? It was so offensive to Democrats, you know, many of whom

are stalwart, friends of Israel. It was such a thumb in the eye of the White House and the administration. And the congressional black caucus has traditionally been very pro-Israel, too. So why do that? If you know that they're going to react that way, what do you gain from doing that? I thought it was a mistake. I do. In retrospect, since it didn't work, it was clearly a mistake.

Right. At the time he did it, you know, considering this is such an existential issue to Israel in his mind, maybe he felt he couldn't live with himself unless he did absolutely everything that he could do to try to win the argument. But I tend to agree with you. I just think it's in the scheme of things a small matter.

I don't think that he's the reason there's no two-state solution. I do wish that he would say more and faint more towards the two-state solution if only because he could do a better job of smoking them out in front of the world that they're not

interested in the two-state solution. Is that what Posner said last week? He should just offer 67 borders. They're going to say no. Something like, he did say something. Posner. Which Posner? Gerald.

Gerald. He said something like that. But, I mean... Was he on your show last week? Yeah. He was terrific. By a remote. But it's obvious to me and I know to you that if they wanted a two-state solution,

they would say so. And then... Yes. Then Netanyahu would be thrown out of office. Yes. If he didn't go along with it. The Israeli public would turn on a dime. That's all, I mean, fuck this dual loyalty thing. I'm very attached to Israel, not more than America, but nevertheless, it's the land of my parents and my grandparents. And I want this to end over there. I care about it deeply. And if I got a whiff, a slight whiff that the Palestinian leader wanted

a two-state solution, I would immediately turn to the left. Sure. Left-ish, you know. Well, the thing is Israel did this, they tried it 25 years ago. Yes. It's called Oslo. And then the Camp David, you know. And they got second to five.

And then in 2008, and then even under Obama. So it's too late for this. Like, Israel, there is no Israeli left anymore. Would you think the Israeli public accept the 67 borders? No, not anymore. It's too late for that. They lost. I don't think that's true that there's no Israeli left.

Look at the, look at the constitution of the parliament. Well, that's true. But I think that if you look at, the citizens in Israel, there are a lot of people who are... Are they left or they centrist? Look at who they... Look at the party. If they do polls, how many votes does Merritt's labor, those left-wing parties?

How many do they get among Israeli Jews? Very few. So it would be considered what? Center. Are the Democrats left? Maybe they're left. I don't know. I mean, that party...

Are they considered left? American? No, no, no. No, no. The party in Israel called... the Democrats. Oh, no, I don't think so. You know, if they'd be considered, they're not left in Israel? Well, yeah, I guess so. Well, my point was more like, even if they're in favor of a two-state solution, would they accept uprooting all the settlements in the West Bank? That's why, they, they

poll this question, do you support a two-state solution? And it's not, it's overwhelmingly opposed in Israel now. But as no one was saying, it could change on a dime. Or, yes, but there would have to be so, it wouldn't, it wouldn't be a dime, though. You would need a tectonic change in Palestinian society. You know, you would need to see something that would overcome what people saw on October 7th. And those videos of Palestinian citizens. Right, but that's not opposing. Women and young people participating in these massacres.

And so that's not going to happen on a dime. That's a generational change. And you're going to need a leader who sounds something different than a boss or any of these other goons. I mean, it's just not in the... It's 100% correct, but it's not, that's not actually opposition to a two-state solution.

In theory, it's not, yes. And I agree with you. I think most... Very deeply, it's not. No, I think most... Look, I think most Israelis, in theory, believe in a two-state solution.

They don't, of course, they don't want to be occupying these people in perpetuity. But this fact is completely lost on people because they see these polls. Yes. And the polls mask it. The polls mix the people

who actually want a greater Israel with the people who said, of course I don't want that land, but we need to protect ourselves. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Because the reality we're dealing with right now is that if we do pull out of the West Bank and Gaza and give them a state, then it's going to be another war the next day.

Hamas will take over. Moss will take over. And in the West Bank, absolutely. And we'll be right back to where we were on October 7th. That's what I said to Posner last week. I said... Posen, did we decide it was Posen or Posen? No, Pazner.

Spelt. Speltzer. Like Phil Clay. It's Cly. Oh, it is? It's Clyde. Kly. It's Kly. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That, um, that the, the, the, to the shame of all the smart people in the world

is no longer even required to expect there to be a single Palestinian leader who wants the two state solution. Like, you're blaming Israel for the lack of two state solution. You want them to come around to agree to who. Like you, it's like a basic thing. You should say, okay, we need to, you need to have, come on guys, you're embarrassing me now. I like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm all on your side, Palestinians, but you've got to have one leader who's actually saying that they want this. Well, there was such a leader. His name was Salam Fayyad. And he had 2% support.

He was a technocratic prime minister for a couple of years. He was doing great work. And then they basically ran him out of town. He lives in Texas now. I mean, he's exiled. A boss canceled the elections because he knew that Hamas was going to win. He's in the 20th year, it was four-year term or something. But Hamas was going to win the elections.

Right. I'm glad he is. I'm glad he did. didn't have those elections, but let's be honest about what the reality is on the ground. That's interesting because would Israel maybe be in a better position now diplomatically if Hamas were in both? How? Because it's just more.

Look at how they respond. The world still treats Hamas like a legitimate, you know, entity. That's what Finkelstein was saying in the clip I watched today. That they tried everything. This is why he refuses to condemn Hamas. because they tried everything diplomatically until... The Palestinians, he says. Hamas.

Hamas tried everything diplomatically. Hamas tried everything diplomatically. Oh, okay. And that's why he won't condemn them for October 7. Oh, I thought Finkelstein did condemn them for October 7th. No. No, no. No, he compared them to Nat Turner's rebellion.

He said it warmed his heart. He said that. Every fiber of his soul. That's disgusting. What a cretan he is. That's repulsive. Don't talk about my Norman that way. He's disgusting.

Okay. So what's going to happen in Iran? I got, you know, we've got another week and a half in the ceasefire. I think it was a good thing that J.D. Vance left because they didn't, you know, they basically spat in his face and he got up and left. And there's this talk now about blockading the straight entirely, which would deprive the Iranians of any revenue whatsoever. And I'd like to see where that goes. But I'm not one of these defeatists who thinks it's like over and we lost. That's preposterous.

We've already accomplished a great deal. I want to ask a related question there. There's a fascinating dynamic going on. Again, you heard it here first on this show. We talked about that signal chat where J.D. Vance was like saying, I don't know if the president understands. J.D. Vance is a disloyal fuck. Of course he is.

And now there's no way Trump doesn't know this. Yes. And then J.D. Vance, chief of staff or something is Tucker Carlson's son or something? He's the communications director. Something like that, yeah. Communication director. And so obviously this is a very interesting dynamic over there in the White House.

And it seems to me that Trump sent J.D. Vance over there to negotiate. To humiliate him. Yeah, you know, well, you need your fucking fingerprints on whatever comes out of there. So you can't say, oh, I was against it, right? Because he leaked to the media. There was this big New York Times story last week

where it was reported that J.D. Vance was the most outspoken member of the war cabinet telling President Trump that this was a bad idea, you know that that came from J.D. Vance's office, right? So he clearly leaked against the president, and I think the president and, you know, Susie Wiles and the people around him are smart enough to understand that. Now, is J.D. Vance and the president alone in a room? I don't know that. That rarely ever happens.

On foreign policy issues, I think it rarely ever happens. I'm the president. Yeah. And I find out, on the commissau, and I found out that Liz leaked something really bad to the event. I call her fucking into the fucking love to say, Liz, you know and I know this came from you. What the fuck? Like, what is that conversation like? That's a good point.

I don't know. I don't know. It fascinates me. It's probably like that. You know, he can't fire J.D. Vance. Right. But it probably does go something like that. But Trump, more than any other president ever,

is totally capable of going out in front of a microphone and saying, fuck the vice president. He's already said a little bit. He said that like J.D. Vance and I disagree on. things, which he doesn't really say about anyone else in his administration. But that's respectful. But he clearly favors Rubio when it comes.

He speaks like Rubio is his son, like his firstborn. He's so effusive in his praise of his... Better than his son. Yeah. He calls his son a son a dummy. His son is a fucking dope. Both of them, by the way. Tiffany's the hall.

Ude, Ude and Cusei. It's an old reference. That's a deep cut. Well, you said we've accomplished a lot. What have we accomplished and what can we realistically We destroyed their Navy. We've destroyed massive quantities of their military capacity. We've destroyed their leadership, several levels of their leadership, their command and control structure.

The Ayatollah, I mean, that's a big deal. And it's irreparable. I don't even know how you estimate how much that's worth. Much of their ballistic missile capacity. But there's still more to do. They still have this uranium that we need to get a hold of. Is there any chances regime falls? That seems to be very difficult.

But let's be clear, it also wasn't an explicit goal of this operation. The Israelis made it part of their operation. But the United States, Trump never said that this was going to be a regime change. That that basically had to be accomplished for this to be considered a success. Well, he did say something about unconditional surrender, which is... You don't... Fine, but the regime can stay. if it surrenders to what we're demanding of them.

If, you know, a multi-party liberal democracy is one of the demands, then yes, you need to change the regime. If that's not part of it, if it's just, look, you can't be funding these proxies anymore. You can't be threatening the United States and our allies. You can keep your Mullah regime and your, you know, your system of government. Then, you know, I could see Trump.

I think that's basically what Trump would want. He doesn't seem to care very much about democracy and human rights. It doesn't seem to be very, you know, foremost on his agenda. He wants a regime that he can deal with. That'll basically bow to American interests like he has in Venezuela. Of course, Venezuela is a completely different situation than Iran. I think they're Christian. That's part of it.

And also, like, the regime of Venezuela, it's not, it's basically a gangster thugocracy. It's not, it's, like, deeply religious, you know, like really serious ideological regime. and I think Trump was maybe, I think he kind of maybe gained the wrong lessons from Venezuela in thinking that it would be, it would be just as easy to kind of go in and just get rid of the Ayatollah and then we could just deal with whoever remains

in the same way that we're dealing with Delci Rodriguez and Venezuela, and those are just a completely different situation. So let me introduce this, Barack Ravid. Do you know Barack Ravid? I never met him, no. I met him in Israel on our trip with a, he was a very surly,

disagreeable guy. Wow. I didn't even know he was. was an important journalist at the time. That's kind of what you want in a journalist, though, is to be surly and disagreeable. Yeah, maybe so. Right, but the great ones are. Yeah, Jimmy Breslin. And he was bitching and moaning about the judicial overhaul that was being proposed in Israel's before October 7. Before October 7, this is 2020, Thanksgiving, New 2022. And I said, it's funny because the liberals are so upset about this, but then they want to, they're trying to

pass a law that says, you know, to pack the court in America. Right. Right. Which, And he got angry at the comment. Like, I think of exactly what he said. To me, it was like, you know, you just pick and choose what you want to get upset about. It's really all about the outcome. Anyway, but he reported, and I think he's considered to be a fairly reliable reporter. It depends on who you ask. But go ahead.

He said the U.S. also asked Iran to – this is a report on the negotiations falling apart. The U.S. asked Iran to remove all highly enriched uranium from the country. The Iranians said they would agree to a monitored, quote, monitored process of downblending. I guess that takes it from 60 down to... Yeah. It instead, according to two sources. Now, that would mean that they blinked. Who blinked?

The Iranians. Well, if they're not... No, they want the complete removal of this stuff. They're now saying, we're going to do something medium. Right. That's not... Well, it's not a capitulation, but it's much more than the people like Robert Pape said they would do.

If it was actually... Look, saving face, as much as I hate to admit it, saving face is a necessary part of things. And as much as I wish they would have regime change. But if we can accomplish 100% certainty that they are not going to develop a nuclear weapon, I'm fine doing it in a way that gives them their self-respect. This is also a cultural thing with Middle Eastern men.

It's really all people. Yeah, that's probably true. but I think especially so with these like alpha society's yes it's really important that they not be seen as capitulated yeah we're weak yeah

these like really alpha middle eastern guys I mean this is true yeah like your husband probably parial hates men how did I get stuck with you if this is true

then um we have reason to be optimistic that there will be some resolution here, which is favorable to United States. I hope. I mean, I don't know enough about the specifics of the science behind all this this whole issue, so I can't really speak to that. But I just think it's just too early and too soon to make any kind of conclusions about this. I just... What I have found amazing about it, I'm pretty sure you're going to agree. is that it's obvious as the nose on anyone's face

that if Iran gets out of this particular bind that they're in right now, they're going to get a nuclear bomb immediately. Oh, right? Like, like after being humiliated. I think, no, I think the physical infrastructure has been so destroyed that they can't get it immediately. No, no, I mean, prior to the war,

like we had to act now. Also, yes, also I would say, the fact that they have been able to block the strait is in its own way. a retrospective justification for the war. Because that means Iran has always had this ability. It could have done that whenever it wanted, right?

Even if the United States did something that they didn't like or if Israel did something they didn't like, they could have blocked the straight. And we can't live with that. Yeah, but you can't have a preemptive war just because somebody can do something. America could drop an atom bomb somewhere.

Not for that reason, but I would say you can add that to the list of grievances. The fact that this regime has that ability to do something like this that has a has it has control over the strategic waterway that they can in a matter of days or however long it takes shut it off that is not something that the free world can tolerate or live with i i emailed robert pay and i said um bob how much money i did a thing on chat chbt if they if they toll all the tankers 20 million dollars two million dollars

the price of gas uh according to chat chb t will go up from between uh three and five cents, which is not catastrophic, you know. It's between three and five cents. And then at that point, then the Oman and Saudi Arabia, they'll start building pipelines to the Red Sea. And he said, well, Iran will just start bombing the pipelines to the Red Sea. Oh, really? And I said, well, don't you think if they start bombing pipelines to the Red Sea, the world's, you

know, we'll have a slightly different take on a war with Iran? And he didn't answer me. But that is, I kind of have this thing that, like, be careful what you wish for around. Like, if they start actually tolling ships through the straight of Hormuz, I think that will be the end of their leverage. It'll take a few years. Right. And we'll find other ways to get gas and oil. Venezuela hasn't pumped oil in a while.

It'll come back. We'll work around it. We'll work around it so that it's not. And then they have nothing. Like, like, you shot your load. Exactly. And your load is shot. Yes.

And now you're done. Exactly. Yeah. So I'm okay. Like, I know Trump's not going to agree to it. I know probably smart people think it's a bad idea. But the toll does not horrify me. The nuclear weapons horrify me.

Yes, as they should. Yeah. As they should. That's what they have to stop. And I'm just completely astounded by the number of people who are saying, hey, you know, it's Iran with nuclear weapon. It's not so bad. It's playing dice with the world.

It's insane. And then Saudi Arabia. and then Oman and then terrorist groups. You know what else we were first on this podcast, Jamie? Just because we're going to end up. Very early on, maybe like two months into it, we identified that it was the plummeting costs of lethal technology, which was one of the reasons that Netanyahu had to fight the war with Hamas now.

And then it came up again when, Ukraine took out some portion of the Russian Air Force with this operation spider web. Yes. These fucking drones and low cost. They're very cheap. And now they're like under $1,000 each and they're going to be under $500 each. And they're going to be thousands of them. Imagine thousands, 10,000, hundreds of thousands of drones in Gaza.

They have to take, at least get a hold of the situation now. And we have the same bind with Iran. We have to take care of this now. There's some weird thing. The cycle is turning against us now. Yeah. I think the psychology also just, to quote Jim McKay's father, our worst fears and our greatest hopes are seldom realized.

People can't wrap their heads around the possible dangers of a nuclear Iran. Right. Right. You know, and I guess wishful thinking. You think right after a pandemic, which was likely caused by a lab leak, people would understand the risks of accidents. Or, you know. Underestimating people's stupidity, I think.

How much raise in the price of gas would we be ready to tolerate in order to prevent a pandemic? Right. Now, maybe a nuclear explosion in the Middle East wouldn't kill as many as the pandemic did. But it wouldn't be good. No. It wouldn't be good. it wouldn't be like necessarily nuclear winter

we don't think but eventually it will be and what else is on your mind we're going to talk about Eric Swalwell oh yes great fantastic please so I have some mixed feelings about this because I believe Eric Swalwell

is the cringiest member of Congress he just looks like an oath he's like he's like a 45 year old white woke guy

like liberal woke guy. Easy on the white. But that's part, no, no, that's very much part of his, that's very much part of the schick, right? Because when you're like a middle-aged white, cisgender heterosexual man and you're woke, it's so performative.

And he was just so, look, like, I really think cringe is the real word to use here. I can't think of a better word to describe him in the way that he would just do stuff that was like, oh, God, like, I feel embarrassed for you. Like, why are you behaving this way on camera? And then, but I do find something strange about how this happened in a matter of hours.

And as someone who's become more skeptical of sexual harassment claims in general, not skeptical, just believing in due process, right? And these things should be... You are conservative. I just believe, I'm a liberal. I believe in due process and equality before the law. and just because someone accuses you of something doesn't mean you're guilty.

Liberals believe that when it comes to black criminal defendants, like why does that principle all of a sudden vanish when it comes to other people? So it just so happens that there's this jungle primary is how they call it in California where everyone, from whatever party

you are, you all run in the same primary and the top two candidates advance on to the final round. In the past couple weeks, the top two candidates have been two Republicans which is crazy in California, But the reason is because there's so many Democrats. There's like 10 Democrats running, and there's two Republicans. And so all the Democrats are splitting the vote, and the Republicans are at the top.

And it became clear to the Democratic establishment machine in California that at least one of these Democrats has to get out of this race. And it's a collective action problem, right? Because none of them want to do it. They all want to, you know, like, why didn't Curtis Sleeway drop out? Like, he wanted to win, and he didn't fucking care if he was taking votes away from Cuomo, right? He's a narcissist, but go ahead. He's an art. But so it's the same thing here in California.

And I don't want to sound conspiratorial, but it does seem strange that supposedly these stories about Eric Swalwell were known. Everyone now is like, oh, we always knew about Eric Swalwell. It was always rumored that he was this beast, you know, behaving with women badly and blah, blah, blah. And this just suddenly happens a couple weeks before the primary. They, like, every, from every corner, media, you know, activism, you know, all these women, it's a very well-coordinated hit job

on this guy, and I'm not saying that some of these allegations aren't true. What's the worst allegation? What's the worst allegation? Well, it's unclear. No one's accused him of rape. I think he's been accused of,

they're saying sexual assault, but it's unclear if it was, like, drunk sex between the two of them were drunk, and I don't know, like, is that rape if the two of you were drunk and the woman is not? Of course not. Well, you say, of course, son.

I don't know. I don't, I'm not. But this is the thing, like, like these, like, okay, I'm a- What are you pointing at people? Because you're always late to this. Okay, I'm a feminist. Let me tell why I'm a feminist. I want my daughter to do whatever she wants, right?

But I'm not a feminist in the sense that I actually do have these notions of, like, chivalrous, old-fashioned notions that men and women are not the same. And a man should not take it. Advantage of a woman, right. But feminist, let's say, no, everybody has agency. So the point being that if a man and a woman get blackout drunk, these ardent feminists then say, she was raped. She's a wilting flower.

How dare you violate her? No, but you still have to give consent whether or not you're blackout drunk or not, right? What if she can't say anything? But that's a problem. But what if he can't say anything? But if they're both blackout. And what if they don't remember it? Neither of them remember what happened the next day.

Yes. That's a problem. For who? For both of them? them. Okay. Is the man legally at fault for them? I don't know. I don't know. If he sticks his dick in her and she

didn't say it's okay, then that's a problem. What if she didn't say it was not okay? Well, I don't know. What if she didn't say anything? Well, I don't imagine a jury would convict anybody, given that fact pattern that you just articulated. So I don't know what the truth is behind these things.

All I'm saying is that it looks fishy. Let me ask you question, Peryl. You've been blackout drunk before. Let's say for the purpose. You've had blackout drunk sex? Never. Okay. Does any... I have a child.

Does any... We're saying before. Before you were a mother. Does any... I don't actually... If you want me to be honest or you want me to go along with this line of questioning for the purposes of...

Go along with the line of questioning. No, the point is this. Does any fair-minded person actually believe that when two blackout drunk people have sex that somebody has done something awful. Obviously, we know that when you're that impaired that you're blacking out, you might do bad things,

you might do good things. She might, you might, you might. It is, to me, it's a, it is just a reality in life that sometimes people both get fucking so fucked up. They don't even know what they're doing and things happen. This should not be a reason to ruin a guy's career unless he slipped her a Mickey.

He's like, like, let's live in the real world. And this is where gay guys are, much more sophisticated than the rest of us. No, that's not the only place. No, no, it's true. No, on a lot of issues. But it is easier, not because gay men are any more suave or sophisticated when it comes to sex. Because at heart, there's a penetrative partner

and there's a non-penetrative partner between male and female. And the feminists would argue simply by dint of that fact, by the fact that the man is the penetrative partner, he therefore assumes more responsibility in the sexual... I mean, I think that, There's something to that. What about when she gets on top?

But you need the hardened, you need the hardened implement, right? That has to be, that it, you need the penetrative implement. Yeah, because she's been fluffing you for an hour. But in a gay, in gay sex, there is a penetrative. Of course there is. But either man can play that role. I'm saying when there's a man and a woman, it's inherently the role of the man to be the penetrative partner and therefore is expected. When you say that a man could take advantage of a woman, you're saying, like a man could take advantage of a woman.

woman, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about that he has this power that a woman does not have. But it's not a prima facie case that he took care of. Nobody can remember what happened. But I do think that maybe there is something that if she's pinned down versus if she's on top.

Hold on. That's my wife. We're doing a podcast, sweetheart. We're talking about penetrative sex. Hi, dad. Oh, sorry. Sorry, son. I got to call you back. Bye. I want to tell you We're going to podcast.

Okay, we're doing a podcast. Bye, bye, bye, bye. I think Steve. I think Steve wanted to interject, Steve. Go ahead, Steve. What do you know about sex? I think I'm probably, I probably exist because of blackout drunk sex. And, you know, it just seems like a thing you can't regret.

I mean, you put yourself, that's what Booze does. It makes you like. You can regret us. I think that also, you can't really consent to something. What if she's blackout drunk and he's not? Right. That's totally different. If you're blackout drunk, you can't sign your will and testament either.

While we're on this subject... Oh, wait, we have to wrap up. Yeah, go ahead. I just feel like I have a tiny bit of wiggle room here to slip in Christy Nome's husband and that whole story. No, you don't want to? Yes, yes. I'm fascinated by that, too.

You want to give us the rundown? Well, look, I believe consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want in the privacy of their homes. if it doesn't harm anybody else. So, to my knowledge, he's done nothing illegal. No. I do think it's wrong. I don't understand why.

It's wrong that he's being exposed in this way. I agree with that. I believe in privacy. I agree with you. And there's no indication of any kind of like criminal hypocrisy. Like, has he gone out and used his power as whatever job he has to, like, oppress people who, like, have these fetishes? I'm not aware of that.

I find it really interesting that he's being shamed. Yeah. That's right. They're like totally shaming him. By the way, what's funny is that it's the left who is doing this. That's right. And these are the people who supposedly believe that it's okay to have whatever. That's exactly it.

It's unbelievable how this guy, I mean, he was married, he shouldn't be blah, blah, blah, whatever, whatever. But he's being totally shamed for this by the left for wanting to maybe be a transgender woman named Crystal. Okay, but is it in part because she's associated with the antiposition? Of course. So there's a hypocrisy issue. Sure, but that's... That's between her and her husband. That's not his fault.

I don't see why he... Listen, I'm very protective of people's privacy. I was outraged by what happened to Larry Summers being exposed to. Yes, that was wrong. All of that. Glenn Greenwald. Yeah. No, Greenwald wanted that.

Greenwald's... It's part of Greenwald's kink for the entire world to know that he sucks a male prostitutes toes while transferring thousands and thousands of dollars to him. The knowledge of... that you and I and Nome and Periel and millions of other people know this is what gets him off. That's how much of a sick fuck

Glenn Greenwald is. Well, but you're consenting adults. You're king shaming. No, but it's part of his pink. Right? It's part of it. The fact that I'm even saying this gets him off.

Okay. So it's like a meta, meta, meta trap that I can't get out of. He's going to jack off to this clip. Listening to me saying these things about him. Is there a through line between that, sort of attraction to humiliating sexuality to his political points of view.

Is he a conservative? Glenn Greenwald? No, no. No, I'm talking about the, the husband. Oh, Greenwald. Yeah, like the nastiness, the, the, the self-wolding. He's a Jew who's in love with Muslim terrorists. Of course, there's a psychosexual domination element to this.

Absolutely, absolutely. he gets off on the idea of Jews being massacred by Muslims. Of course there's a domination element to his sexual kinks. He is very smart. That seems to be obvious to me. You want to say something about Ben Sasse? Where we go? You started to say something about Ben Sass.

Oh, yeah. I watched a really incredible clip of him. He's actively dying. I was just reprimanding Dan for his poor outlook on life before the show. Well, it wasn't poor outlook. I just said, look, time goes fast and, and, uh, it's, and they said, and we're all going to die very soon. That's right. Is that a bad outlook? Yes, it's a terrible outlook. Some sooner than others. And I said that I, but, but, but you know, but it's like this, you know. But, or you try to savor and enjoy every moment. And I said that

I was, it's futile. My God, you guys are impossible. You say the clip, you saw it. Did you see Ben's I didn't watch the whole thing, but he was interviewed by Ross Douth at the other times. And he's done. And he's actively dying. He's taking a medication that results in there being like kind of lesions or something on his face. His face is bloody. Yes. And also he's, you know, actively dying of cancer.

Can we not crack this cancer shit already? I mean, how many years have we been flailing above trying to, you know, solve this problem? It's a fair point. And, you know, they have all the, you give money all the time, but, you know. Well, the conspiracy theorists would say that they've had the cure, but they don't, they're not divulging it. Also, is prostate cancer is what? I think it's a lot of men. Prostate, if you get it early, it's pretty easy to do.

Yeah, a lot of men are dying of prostate cancer, which is relatively easy to detect. You got to spot it early, and then it's fine, but you have to go get your, you have to go get the check. It's like. It is. I thought they had to stick their finger up your butt. If you're lucky. So what's the... I haven't had that done in a while.

I guess I should have the butt thing with the fingers. You should stay on top of all your... There's a grail test now where you can get all the cancers checked. Of course you should. Yeah, because if they detect it early enough, it's pretty easy to treat. I'm so paranoid. I had the grail test. You know, the grail test?

No. They can test... You want to do it every week. My doctor says, you know, you do it once every five years. It's something ridiculous. I'm like, why can't I get it every week? He's like, well, people don't do that. I'm like, why not?

Like, why would... You didn't have an answer. Because I'm always fascinated by the notion that there's... What if you get the cancer the day after you get the test? Well, that's right. That's why you take it every week. I'm always fascinated by the notion of like, if you didn't catch something in time,

meaning there's one particular moment in time where you crossed over. Right. There's one, one cigarette. If you hadn't had the one cigarette, maybe you wouldn't have like that. Is that true? I think it's when, as soon as a cell,

detaches from its original location and goes elsewhere. I think that's the moment that it becomes, because when a metastasizes, but then you have a chance to catch you. No, but you're already at stage four when it metastasizes. Like if you go regularly and like every... But I'm saying that might be the point that no I'm talking about when the cell detaches, the cancer cell detaches and goes elsewhere. No, but I'm saying that if you get tested regularly, they say every year, every six

months, you're not going to get to the point that it metastasizes unless you don't go for a three year. I'm just saying as these tests become affordable. But then why not go every week? I'm not a doctor, though. Don't take medical advice for me. So my doctor asks me why I shouldn't be really like this false positive, but none of it real, but you can have a false positive anytime.

I'm like at the point where the technology becomes very affordable to well-off people, I want to fucking get it every morning. No. Do you think there's a difference in the thing? What do you mean? Do you think some doctors are better at detecting and then others? I'm sure. I'm sure that.

The Jewish doctors are definitely better with the finger. Yeah, every day, but you need to see the doctor. I say, he's a good at my eyes. I'm like, what if God had not made the finger so it could fit in our ass? We just never be able to check our prostate. Like, we'd have just like thousands of years of it was a mystery. Let's just hope your prostate's okay. There's no way to check it.

I guess we might have found some other way of doing it or not. I don't know. It was about time. What's that? figured out that sticking their finger up your butt was this sort of miracle test for this. I don't know. You know, my doctor didn't suggest, I went for a checkup, and she didn't suggest that I do that. Now, is that malpractice on her part? You need a male doctor.

Well, she could have said, A, she could have done it herself. I don't see why she has fingers. B, she could have said, hey, you haven't had this in a while. You should go do it. She didn't. So I don't know what should I take from that. I don't know, you should ask her, in medical school, then we'll go, my friend went to medical school,

they do this to each other. No, stop it. They do not. Well, they do it in college, too. They do it to each other. They have patience that they just go to hospitals. And my friend who went to medical school told me that they partner up and they give each other a rectal exam.

Is he sure that he wasn't actually at a gay bathhouse when he was doing this? Was he blackout drunk? No. And I think he told me he had a female. partner who gave him. Stop it. He was fucking with you. Why don't you just ask ChatGBT,

GBT, if there's any validity to that. Call him right now. I will check Chad GBT, and if it turns out to be false, I will then cut it into the show, but if you're hearing the show and it's not corrected,

that means it's true. It sounds. I know he told me because I question him. There's just no way. Get him on the phone. I mean, maybe they would have a volunteer that's not another medical student

that you're going to be sitting next to the next day in class. That is ridiculous. Hold on. That's like something I would have seen on Instagram and came here to report. That sounds like, you know, an urban legend you might have believed before the internet, you know, but... You're calling him?

I'm calling him. Why not? He probably won't answer. Let's see what he says. What kind of a doctor is? He's an eye doctor. He's an oncologist. Hello?

Listen, you're being recorded, so don't say your name. I just told the story. And if you want me to cut this out, I will. I just told the story that you told me. that in medical school, they partner up and they give each other prostate exams. Is that true or false? Well, when I was in medical school,

we did physical exams on each other, yes? And so you had a female partner who stuck her finger in your butt? All right, all right, who are you with? Just millions of listeners. I'm recording a podcast. I wish there were millions of listeners. Everybody denied.

I'm not going to say your name. That's not even saying yes. He did say. He stuck her finger up your butt. Not that I think that anybody in the world really cares about this, but I think if they Google you and knew who you were and knew who your friends were, they could figure out who I am. Okay, you're just saying what happened to medical school. That's all.

Yes. Yeah. So what happens? Does nobody believe you? Nobody believes me. Tell us what happened. Then we'll go ahead. Just go ahead.

You have a course with three students and a doctor who's teaching you about physical exam. And you go through all of the physical exam things. So it includes examining all the nasty bits, yeah. And male and female do it to each other, right? Yeah. Wow. Where did you go to medical school? Mexico.

Granada. In the New York State Penitentiaries. All right, but I won't say your name. Bye, Richard. Yeah, that's just not credible to me. I think he's lying. He's not like, he told me. He told me at the time he was happy.

Like, literally when he came home from school, he told me about it. I can't imagine they do that anymore. Oh, that I don't know. So they're like pulling their pants down in next to each week? No, through the pants. I can't imagine that happens still. All right, okay. Well, you'd ask chat GPT.

I learned a lot. I don't know about you guys. I learned a lot. Pull the, pull the lid off medical school. Yeah. And the fact that I'd never heard that before. I'm not buying it. You would think it would be common knowledge.

They're embarrassed. This is like absolutely. It's like boarding school. Egregious. There is no way that that's common practice. I bet you can find a YouTube video on it right now. Cut it in if you can. Jamie Kurchick, it's always a pleasure.

I think we agree on everything. Except whether or not. Yeah, and whether or not there are rectal exams done in medical school by the medical students. On each other. On each other. Yeah, I can believe that somebody from the community, a volunteer wants an extra 50 bucks.

Sure. That's quite credible and believable, but not another medical student. Okay, I'm just telling you, my friend is not lying. So maybe you have some other explanation. He's not lying. That's not even, I would take my life on it. Okay.

All right. I would take my children's lives on it. He's not lying. Then I question the institution that he was at. Yes. At the time. Yeah. And what they were really about.

I'm going to ask Chad, GPD, if this is a thing, you know. Well, you're going to ask and cut it in. No, I went to the source. I don't need to ask anymore. All right. Anything else you want to say? Thank you.

No, I was very. Very nice to be here. Thank you. All right. I think this was the best episode we've ever had. It is a good episode. There is something to be said for just like an old school podcast where you just shoot the shit and you don't have to like argue and take a part of everything. I don't have to spend hours preparing and stuff like that, finding, you know, one line that Jamie said that I can secure him with.

Good night, everybody. Good night.