The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Gary Gulman, Matteo Lane, and Leo Palmieri

Episode Date: June 1, 2018

Gary Gulman is a Boston-based standup comedian. He may be seen performing intermittently at the Comedy Cellar. Matteo Lane is a New York City-based standup comedian. He may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar. Lea Palmieri is a Senior Producer for the website Decider and writer of the recent article, "Stand-Up Specials Should Avoid Politics -- and Stay Personal Instead."

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM, Channel 99, The Comedy Channel. My name is Noam Dorman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. We're not in our normal location today. We're upstairs in the apartment building because the Comedy Cellar is being taken over by the shooting of the TV show Crashing starring Dan Natterman. Well, that's a strong word to describe a line here and there. I'm resentful to them. They took out my line. So I hate them.

So we also have Mr. Dan Natterman, Mateo Lane, and Mr. Gary Gullman. Go ahead. I had a line last summer on Natterman, Mateo Lane, and Mr. Gary Goldman. Go ahead. I had a line last summer on crashing, on HBO's crashing. Well, I'm shooting tomorrow, an episode tomorrow,

and I was all excited to, you know, to be chosen, selected, after a rigorous casting process. And that was, I look at the, I look at the call sheet

to see who else is going to be on the show outside Steve. All right. I mean, in other words, they're taking everybody. Except me. Except Matteo. But I'm sure you're going to have a future.

Outside Steve, by the way, he's just the guy that works outside. He's the doorman here at the company. He's also the best man at my wedding. He's not an actor or anything. I've always been convinced that certain TV series, and this is a sick paranoia, certain TV series were created just to keep me off them. That would be paranoid but not altogether outrageous

a supposition. I've had similar thoughts about conspiracies involving destroying me in this business. So let me tell you what I'm doing. While you guys are talking, I'm so obsessed with this new club in Vegas. No, I'm constantly just checking the reservations for the club in Vegas.

Well, it's not just that. I set up one of those online chat things on the internet, like tech support chat thing, because I got to see what's going on with the customers. So every time a customer comes to the website and wants to chat, you're going to hear the sound of a cow. Oh, okay. And then I'm going to check out. I have to answer their questions, like who's playing tonight, what's on the menu,

have any discount codes. But hopefully this is normal. Bugsy Siegel used to do that with the Flamingo. He would answer the phone with all the questions about the Flamingo in 1956. I recommend the nachos, by the way. They're very good. But this is the way a business is built, one customer at a time.

And it's like the blueberries. I always have sympathy for De Niro in Casino. Ace Rothstein, the kikiest portrayal of many kiky portrayals in Martin Scorsese films. Yeah, Ace Rothstein. Yeah, but he's right. Why should one guy have all the blueberries and the other guy has no blueberries? No, he's right. Why should one guy have all the blueberries and the other guy has no blueberries?

No, he's right. But it also led to ulcers that he needed like 16 Alka-Seltzers an hour to get through. Well, that's me. Yeah, well, that's sad. Because otherwise we're just going to go broke in Vegas. So that's what I got to do. But things are moving along, you said.

They're moving along well. Well, we lowered. I'll tell you what the problem is. It's Ticketmaster. This fucking racket, Ticketmaster. They charge $14 a ticket. You have no choice. You have to use them.

And they're like, I don't know. They're my biggest competition. I'm competing with myself because people go to the cart. They buy the ticket. They select the tickets. And, they buy the ticket, they select the tickets, and then they see the fees and they... Is Ticketmaster a monopoly?

Well, I don't know, but they have deals with the major casino organizations. They've monopolized Las Vegas. They just bail when they see the fees. I don't know if the MGM

organization uses them, but Cesar's organization does. Aren't people buying directly on the Comedy Cellar website too? It all goes through It all has to go through Ticketmaster. I'm not know if the MGM organization uses them, but Caesar's organization does. Aren't people buying directly on the Comedy Cellar website, too? It all goes through Ticketmaster. It all has to go through Ticketmaster. I'm not even sure if I'm supposed to talk about it on the radio. Can you buy tickets at the door? Nope. Wow.

Really? A racket. You can't walk up to the door and buy tickets? The mob never took $14 a ticket, Gary. Well, you could theoretically... Well, what do you mean you have to go through Ticketmaster? You could theoretically establish your own ticketing system? No, I can't. Theoretically, I can't.

It's in the contract. Okay, well, that's with the Rio. The Rio is a Ticketmaster house. Okay. I think all the Seasons Hotel are. It's a Ticketmaster house. Which is fine if you're buying a ticket to Elton John for $200. You don't care about the $14.

Right. When you're buying a ticket for Mateo Lane, $14 is, no, I'm kidding. All seven people who saw me, and by seven, none. No, I had some fans. A bunch of gays came out. Really? Yeah, of course.

Gays, they always show up. So, yeah, so this was a thing. But attendance has been better and better. Increasing steadily. I think you have somebody inquiring about the chicken sandwiches. We had as many paid tickets last Saturday night

as we did in the Comedy Cellar in New York. Oh, wow. That's terrific. For sure. So that's pretty good. Oh, somebody sent me, are you there?

Do you have drink minimum in addition to coffee? Hi. Do shows usually sell as buy? Are you there? Okay.

You guys talk. Wait. Oh, no. I wanted to. No. Okay, I guys talk- Wait, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no. I wanted to- No. Okay, I'll tell them. I'll try to- Liza's opening at the Cellar in Vegas.

No. Liza, what do you think of this? Did that go on when you were playing at the Caesars Palace? I just remember being really dizzy. And I remember Bob Fosse coming saying, you've got to get on. And I just sort of- What was it like working with Dudley Moore? He was a faggot. Oh, really? and Bob Fosse coming saying you've got to get on and I just sort of I'm a hoofer

what was it like working with Dudley Moore he was a faggot oh really but I think yeah I didn't know that Gary

I wanted to welcome you back you've been away yes can we talk briefly about that yes absolutely Gary has not

Gary moved he was living in New York and he was a comedy seller regular then he went to live in Boston actually about a year. Actually, Peabody, Massachusetts. 11 months, I moved back in with my mom.

Oh, my God. Yes. And can we discuss the reason for that? Yeah, I went crazy. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I didn't go crazy. I wasn't mumbling to myself or anything like that.

It wasn't a psychotic break. I had, in the 70s, what they would have called the breakdown. And I just was- It wasn't a psychotic break. I had in the 70s what they would have called the breakdown. And I just was... It wasn't a psychotic break. No, it was not a psychotic break. But I was hospitalized with depression and crippling anxiety. And then I just... I didn't think I was going to be able to continue to do comedy.

So I wanted to move back home and reorganize my life and maybe go back to school to become a teacher or something. So I worked at a camp over the summer as a day camp for adolescents with Asperger's. And then I slowly started to do comedy again last summer. I had no idea. I read your tweets and you know I'm on your social media feed and sounds like you're back with a vengeance

because I see a lot of dates that you're plugging yeah I mean that you've been doing yeah I've returned with a with a fervor because I it's brought me great great joy over the since probably like October I felt more myself and and more and more every day. But you said you didn't think that you could continue. Your thought was that maybe you couldn't continue to do comedy, but that you could be a teacher. In other words, you felt if you can't do comedy,

you felt you could do teaching. Why is that? What's the comedy is too anxiety provoking? I had substitute taught in the 90s. What subject? Everything. I was a building substitute, sos. What subject? Everything. I was a building substitute, so I would cover whoever was absent. Sometimes somebody would be absent for a long time. A gym class I covered for a long time, and I covered a history class for a while, and an English class.

What age group? It was a high school. Oh, that was so shitty. Everything past fifth grade is awful But these kids were actually a delight But so you felt that You felt that comedy was too anxiety provoking But teaching kids was not

Yeah and I didn't think I was ever going to be able to write another joke My brain wasn't working My brain wasn't working at all We all feel that way We all get to a point where we feel like we've written our last joke and that we have nothing more to say. Do we not? Mateo, are you? No, I'm pretty furious all the time, so I don't know.

But do you ever feel like you've written your last joke? No. Oh. I mean, I've also been doing it for six years. Are you a storyteller or a joke writer? Joke writer. I'm not a storyteller. Yeah.

I'm more like, yeah, I actually have difficulty with stories. I have a problem telling stories. If I tell a long, drawn-out story, I get bored with myself. And I get anxiety when I don't get the laughs. Sure. So I need the laughs. And then when I have done storytelling shows, you don't have to get so many laughs. But I'm comfortable with that.

I'm comfortable with getting the laughs. I feel like I need, you know, I've often joked, have joked, that I need to get married or have a kid just to get more jokes because I feel like I've talked about everything. I've covered it all. You should marry a female comedian and give her some material. Well, we can give each other material. I thought, well, Marina and I, Marina Franklin, who's black, as you know,

and our audience may not know, but we've jokingly talked about having a kid together just maybe to get a sitcom deal or at the very least some good gags at him. Oh, God. Just because that hasn't been done before. Yeah. People getting married specifically to develop a show business. As far as we know, it's never been done. It's a story.

It doesn't mean you couldn't pretend that that was the thing within a TV show you don't actually have to do it you know how Hollywood works yeah but that's so psychotic I think they had Little Ricky just for the plot lines won't most of the 80's

just like ploys to get more ratings I don't know they have a small person cousin. Go! Yes, but that was fictitious. I'm talking about doing it for real. Yeah.

Sorry, no. No, I was going to say, I have to apologize for this messaging thing. Well, you have to do it now. You can't. It cannot wait. I got to find someone else. No, the customer.

But that's what I was going to say. So the whole thing with Gary and his breakdown went by while I was doing it. First of all, I don't want to appear to be flippant about not listening to it. It's serious. was going to say. Did you get an insert? So the whole thing with Gary and his breakdown went by while I was doing it. First of all, I don't want to appear to be flippant about not listening to it. It's serious. No, I understand. But I also am fascinated by this.

We had someone on last week, I forget who it was, who also talked about having a kind of a breakdown. Mariah. No, it wasn't Mariah. Ian Fybeth. Oh, yeah, Ian. That's right. He was a really funny comedian and I'm wondering

do you know you're in a breakdown when you're having it no I was looking back on a journal that I kept last summer when I moved back home and I took down notes from a conversation I had with Amy Koppelman

who's a Brian Koppelman, who's a... That's your friend, Brian Koppelman, screenwriter. Right. She's a novelist. I'm dropping names. But she was begging me to go into the hospital and telling me it was life or death. And I remember at the time thinking, this is an exaggeration. This is hyperbole. But as I read it, actually on the train ride down, I was thinking, oh, my gosh. Yeah, it took somebody from the outside to recognize what was going on with me.

I didn't understand how bad things were. My girlfriend, Sade, who lives with me, understood what was going on and described what I was like during that time. She said you would either sleep or cry. There was really nothing in between. The thing with depression that a lot of people don't know, one of the symptoms that my doctor said it was called, a lot of doctors refer to it as faux dementia, where your memory is just so weak. So I don't even remember a lot of it, and Sade will describe things to me, and I have no recall. Now, so you got new medications,

you got some talk therapy. What pulled you out of it, or just a passage of time? I could list literally 30 things that I changed in my life, and maybe it was a combination, maybe it was moving, maybe it was the medicine, it was moving maybe it was the medicine maybe so I could listen maybe just a matter became yeah or these

things come out the only thing I will say about maybe you just came out of it was the first severe symptoms of this this particular episode of depression and I've never had one that lasted longer than eight weeks came in in March of 2015 and it was pretty much unabated for nearly two years and nine months. Oh, wow. Well, how do we prevent this from happening again? That's what I was just going to ask.

Do you have any checks or anything in your head like, okay, this is a red flag. I'm starting to go back down that road again. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I do, but it's something that I fear. And three cheers for Sah day for sticking around three by the way you look great that's the thing that's fucked up about it is like i get like four hours of sleep and i look like a horse stomped on me for hours and like you had a mental breakdown

you look amazing well i lost uh 25 pounds that helps that's great it's always good yeah your skin looks good your hair looks good good. You're still tall. Thank you. Do I need a breakdown to look good? What do I? You look good, Mateo. Mateo is being falsely modest. He looks very good.

Yes. I just ate penne alla vodka, so I don't feel good. Do you know what I'm saying? Well, what you feel and what you look. I feel like I have to shower. You ever eat so much food, you're like, I should shower? Like McDonald's? Oh, well, I guess

no, but theoretically, that's whatever. I really thought I was going to get a laugh. I wonder about the thing about getting better, because I've noticed in my own mental ups and downs, which I don't think have gotten to the point of a break. Well, you're steady, Eddie.

No, no, but everybody goes through their prayers. And I notice that I find myself all of a sudden I come out of it. And I can't even tell you why I came out of it. And maybe you're thinking there's something cyclical in the thing. And it reminds me of like a lot of kids. A lot of children, parents, their children don't talk. Their children talk late. So they send them off to speech therapists.

And I'm like, the speech therapists don't do anything. What do you mean? The kid's talking. I said, do you know anybody who doesn't talk?

Right. Everybody talks, all right? Yeah. With or without speech therapy, all the grownups I know, they all talk. Yeah.

I mean, except for nonverbal Asperger. You know what I'm just saying? No, well, I mean, autism. What happens is that whatever you're doing, whatever treatment,

whatever somebody does at the time when you actually just kind of get better, they're like, oh, I cured him. This is what cured him. It's very difficult to be sure. It happened with my brother.

He was a very late talker. And now he's fine. Well, now he can talk. But some people, my niece. My father was a late talker, too. Had a speech. Not that she wasn't talking, but she had a certain speech issue. Like a lisp or something.

Maybe. It was not a lisp, but it was something like that. And she got better with speech therapy. I a lisp or something. Yes. Maybe. It was not a lisp but it was something like that and she got better with speech therapy. I'm not going to condemn the whole profession. I will condemn certain professions but not that one. One of the ancient Greeks

said something like the doctor's job is to entertain the patient while nature cures him. Wow. And I think there's a lot to that. Wow. You get better.

Well, I think in some, yes, my frozen shoulder got better. Oh, it did? Yeah, it got better, and the doctor did not entertain me. I will. He tried to get me to get an MRI. I said, I went online, and we know what it is. It's frozen shoulder. And an MRI, I don't feel like going into that coffin.

Right. And so I didn't do it. How long do you have to sit in those things? I don't know. Might I just interject one notion at this juncture? Go ahead. Interject. I did go on a different combination of meds

around the time within eight weeks of feeling better. It was a reasonable thing. But I also, at about the same time as the meds started to work, I felt just well enough to start exercising,

to eat right, started to spend more time with people. So I feel like it was a feedback loop. But maybe the medicine gets you to a point where you can absorb some of these other things.

You hear about famous people in history, and the term they always use is they had bouts of depression. Melancholy. Bouts, meaning that it was cyclical for them. It wasn't like Lincoln was depressed for 30 years straight. He had his in and out of it without any meds.

This seems to be the way it works, but meds do work wonders for sure. But I will say that this was unprecedented my two years, nine months. It was in my life.

I had had bouts and I had always come out of them, but this one was... Do you attribute it to anything that happened in your life? Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. I worked really hard for three years on a special and it didn't go as well as I wanted it to. That could do it. And that was, I mean, that wasn't it. I didn't fall off the deep end,

but that was sort of the inciting incident. Next time Amy Koppelman's giving you advice, might you mention, hey, maybe if your husband put me in billions. Well, this is interesting. I also will cure this. While I was feeling terrible, I auditioned for billions

and Brian was like, you were shaking and so anxious that you just couldn't. Well, write into the script. Yeah. Change the script. Are you my friend or not? Any character I auditioned for,

you just have to make them gay. I can't change my voice. I don't know how to do it. But is that a speech therapy thing? No, in i sound like yeah but i listen back and it's it's it's gay as the day is long but wasn't there didn't they do it in every language yeah my voice is gay for 40 minutes but they um and there's gay voice in every language like in italy when i go visit my family gay same thing let me hear it and it's like why do we all do that like clique tribes would have a lisp I don't get it we all just have this gay gayness is there any answer is there no you just were always like a little

effeminate my older brother's also gay so my dad's real proud but um there he's not he doesn't sound it you know what i mean he's very like hey but then my friend jess like i'm somewhere in the middle because my friend jesse he he's like this he's the kind of gay is completely bald but still like wipes away hair that's not there and he really sounds like julia child's like girls bonjour like mrs garrett julia child yeah but it's just the way he talks. But then we have our comedian magician friend who sounds gay. He's gay. And we're like, but he's not.

He's a prolific womanizer, I thought. Well, he's allowed to say whatever he wants. We're talking, of course, about gayness. She can say whatever she wants. We're talking about Harrison Greenbaum, who's been a guest on this show. And we've challenged him on this show. We've said, look, we think you're gay. And he says. That's so mean!

Why is that mean? What's wrong with that? It's only mean if it bothers him. Does it bother? No, he doesn't. He loves the attention. He doesn't seem to bother. I mean, don't get me started. But, you know, he has a joke where he says, like, my nickname in high school is a faggot. So he's also inviting people to ask him,

like, are you gay? As a gay man, I'm going to just say say whatever he claims himself to be, I support it. Now, this is a good – something I wanted to get into, a good – what? I remarked about the whole gay thing because – so this is what's so fascinating to me because I actually had thought about this very thing just a few days ago, how all over the world, in every culture, even in cultures where you're not allowed to be gay, there's a certain commonality of kind of characteristics that gay people have. So clearly this is something, whatever the provenance of homosexuality is, whether it's

genetic or something in the womb or whatever it is, you're born that way. And this is associated with that. This is a biological phenomenon. The mannerism is all of it, right? I mean, nobody taught it to you. And liberals really feel strongly, and I agree actually, that

gays are born this way and anyone who doesn't understand that is some kind of barbarian. On the other hand, if you tell them and women also are born, and the things that make women feminine and all these things that we associate with women,

you know, that's really, that's not the way they're raised either. That's how women are. No. No, that's something totally different. That's society. That's the patriarchal society. It's ridiculous. You can't have it both ways. Well, I guess what I would say is that I think, even when someone says they're gay, right? Like I'm gay and you're straight. I think

humans tend to want to categorize things because it helps us understand that thing. And so, you know, me saying I'm gay is maybe the closest thing I can say to express how I feel for another man. And anything else that comes with that, my mannerisms, I think a lot of it to being gay, you know, okay, like everyone has their gender roles. They sort of fall into like up until fourth grade, I was fine. Then fifth grade, everyone really started moving in to their gender roles. And because of my natural sensibilities and I was more accepted by girls than boys from an early age, maybe I was more inclined to to my mannerisms fell in with them maybe more.

But not in Saudi Arabia. No, but you know what, though? It's like it's still illegal to be gay in, I think, 72 countries. And, you know, I think there's a million reasons why young gay men are effeminate. Why would all over the world? You said it. There's gay voice all over the world. Oh, yeah.

I'm also generalizing. What is that? Why is it so hard for people to accept that just like the urge to sleep with the same sex, why couldn't that, whatever it is that you describe, a certain bouquet of characteristics, on a continuum, not everybody has them, also be part of the structure of it. Go ahead, Gary. I had a question or maybe a comment. Have you heard of that book, Bad Feminist, Roxane Gay?

No. It was really interesting. She was quoting somebody, and I can't remember who she was quoting, but the person said, gender is a performance. And that really resonated to me especially well i i think for me it meant that when when i was growing up there were there was there was kind of a narrow definition of of manhood there there there weren't you weren't accepted if you were if you were a harrison greenbaum we we call it yeah we would call you gay and masculinity yeah it's the worship of

masculinity and so i i wasn't gay but i was very creative and sensitive and and quick to to cry but i i suppressed all that and was lucky enough that i was a big person who excelled in sports and could fit in with these guys and was respected by these guys but inside i i didn't i didn't really um connect with with with that level of masculinity and i didn't fit in there yes i would that's in us too yes i actually believe that it's it's just yeah i think i think it's i think it can be both i don't think it has to be so black and white i think that they're're, I mean, the reason why the feminine and the masculine are so, I mean, it makes up a lot of our society is because obviously from way back when those were traits that manifested themselves into somehow women wearing dresses and men wear pants. I mean,

something as simple as that, right? Or women should be effeminate, men should be masculine, and who knows what those reasons come from. But there is also, I think, a lot of straight men, like you're talking about, I think are also suffering. I came here to be funny, and here I am. But straight men are suffering from this idea of being masculine too, where it's like, you know, being masculine, essentially, the definition is don't be a woman. So from the get-go, if you're any type of woman, you're already put down. So for a young boy, don't cry like a girl. Don't play like a girl. Don't run like a girl.

Don't throw like a girl. Don't throw like a girl. The idea in the head is girls equal bad, and that being a man is good, and that showing weakness shows that you are a girl and we remember girls are bad. So, you know, it's a message instilled in us at a young age to fear the effeminate if you are a man and so men are playing up probably their masculinity because they're being rewarded for it.

Yes, the performance. I was performing and wearing a costume, building up my muscles like a man. There's something to that, I suppose. And there was something to my – and I was probably ashamed of my being – having Jewish stereotypical traits of being passive and being full-corny. But also he wore a sundress to preschool. But also, too, like the idea that a man – the fact that a man wears pants and a woman wears a dress.

Why couldn't you wear a dress? That's a made-up thing. Man made that up. I'm not going to talk about men wearing pants. That I have no idea. But I think that in most animals anyway, in the animal kingdom, there's behavior traits of the male and the female. Flamingos are gay. In the species.

And I think humans are the same way. And let's take another example. Can you say bull dyke anymore? What's the polite term for a... You can say whatever you want. A butch woman? A butch woman, yeah. Are there really butch women who are straight?

Very unusual, right? I think it's unusual, but I think it's very possible. I mean, everything exists. So why is that? Why do these things go together with such frequency? Why is it so hard to accept? Probably because the underlying reason is common to everybody or to most people. Or maybe it's just part of a lot more androgynous and i think men are if we really look at men today versus even 15 years ago they're doing a lot more things that are considered quote-unquote effeminate than in previous years so but it's happening so slowly and i think it's a good thing i think people should

honestly just be whatever you are whatever makes you comfortable nothing i'm saying is oh no i don't think you're saying that at all. No, no, no. People should be who they are. But that would have been such bad advice as recently as 1989. Be yourself. Well, I mean, up until 2000, whenever. I mean, listen.

Yeah. Even the fact that I'm gay doing comedy is rare in a lot of cases. I was listening to Dice the other night because he went off on the guy who runs comedy at Netflix and so I was listening to the, because he wouldn't give him a Netflix special, and so

I listened to the first Dice album and it is so dated because of his take on homosexuals. Eddie Murphy 2. Eddie Murphy 2. It's so vile. I want to name my album the first track of his take on homosexuals. It's so vile. I want to name my album. The first track of his album is Faggots, and the second one is Faggots Revisited.

So whenever I make my album, I want to call it Faggots Revisited. Oh, that's great. That's great. A great homage. How could they not give Dice a Netflix special? What are they doing? Well, you should read this screed by Dice.

He's right. It's great, except that as brilliant as he is, he doesn't understand the than, then. Oh. And it undermines the entire screed. And he's a Jew. But it's not even a matter of like they're negotiating for price. They don't even want him.

Yeah. That I don't know. Maybe it was a Monique situation. Roseanne Barr. Roseanne. We have to get to Roseanne. It's the biggest comedy news of the week. Well, first we need to outline what happened.

Now, for those of you who don't know, she compared this woman, Valerie Jarrett. Valerie Jarrett, the president's attorney or something? I'm not sure who she is, but she said by a tweet that Valerie Jarrett looks like the cross between Muslim Brotherhood and Planet of the Apes. And Planet of the Apes had a baby, which is my biggest problem with this, is the hackiness of that formula. The had a baby formula was hacky in 2005. This is supposed to be someone who's on the...

It was hacky in 2005. You're right. This is supposed to be someone who's on the- It was hacky before it was written. In the pantheon of- She would be on the woman comic Mount Rushmore, and she's using the had a baby? I don't think- That Jay Davis was using in 2004? Well- Jay Davis? Jay Davis aside, I don't think Roseanne Barr was ever known as a brilliant joke writer.

Domestic goddess. She was considered cutting edge and a paradigm shift in woman comedy. Back when, to be famous as a comic, you needed 10 mediocre minutes. Give me a little more, Roseanne, that was great, that domestic goddess. I'm glad I point that out. You know how the difference between fat people and skinny people? Like, you ask for directions. A skinny person says,

you go down this street, you take a ride, you do that. Fat person says, it's by that chocolate brown building next to the McDonald's. Wah! Yay!

Good night, everybody. Oh my gosh. That was great, Mattel. That was great. So anyway, I do a great Joe Mackey. Can you talk about the colors like that? Go ahead.

That was a Roseanne joke. Yeah, so. For a split second, I was like, red and blue? I really was so confused. No, because she's obviously. So obviously comparing a woman of color as Valerie Jarrett is, albeit light-skinned. Another hack joke. Yes.

I'm not saying Roseanne's a brilliant joke writer. I don't think she ever was. Let's get to the heart of it. I think she had 15 okay minutes and got a sitcom. But the point is... I want to digress for one second. You always confuse somebody who was a stand-up comedy,

a stand-up comic, with their career as a comic actor or actress. I'm not confusing it. I'm saying she was a good comic actress and her stand-up was okay. I'm not confusing it at all. Gary she was a good comic actress. I understand it was okay. Oh, you said that. Okay, go ahead. I'm not confusing it at all. Okay. Gary said she's one of the Mount Rushmore's of female comedy, and I just disagree with that. Even though she's famous.

That's a good point. So, obviously, comparing a black woman with an ape is obviously a no-go zone, and because of that racist tweet, they canceled her show the roseanne reboot and i believe she lost her agents and her managers and she was on a podcast i think it was joe rogan and her excuse was well first of all she apologized profusely and she said that she had been on

ambien as well at the time uh now i don't know about i did a little research into ambien this shit can fuck you up you You can be on Ambien, and apparently you can get in your car... Did you see what Ambien said? Drive 10 miles. Yeah, I did see. Ambien tweeted... Ambien's statement was...

Go ahead. One of our side effects is not include racism. Yeah, and you know what? Which is really funny, that Ambien. Really funny. Hey, Ambien. Really funny. That was...

What was the name of the company? The drug company. I think it was like... Pfizer or something? No, it was like... Pfizer or something? No, it was like Sofa. Sandoz. No, I don't know. Whatever it was...

The drug companies that have made things I've tried and failed with. My advice to them is get out of the snark business and worry about your medication. So now we're going after the drug company? What happened around there? Why is a drug company tweeting snark? The snark business does not pay as well. It is funny. Yeah, but I don't want certain people to be funny.

My drug makers, my doctors, and my pilots. Yeah, but that was a great moment. Still do the job at hand. And your fucking medication has some fucked up side effects. I really love how passionate you are right now. I am passionate about this because- Are you defending Roseanne? I'm defending the-

I know, but I'm lambasting the drug company. Oh, okay. I will defend Roseanne. Okay. And I might defend Roseanne. I would love to hear how. The point is, if a drug can make you get in your car, drive 20 miles, come home, and not remember a thing, then who the hell knows what it can do?

I can talk to you about drugs. This would be my... Liza, let's get right to Noam. Noam has a good take on it. Noam has a good take. This would be my defense of Roseanne. I am not defending making jokes about black people resembling apes.

But what that does tell me is that there's something mentally wrong that went on here with her because whether you feel that way or not, if you're thinking normal person, you know what the rules are and you don't tweak that. You only do something so stunningly self-destructive if there's something mentally not clicking with you. And normally when somebody does something which we regard as a result of some sort of mental problem, sort of Tourette's or whatever it is she can say anything under the sun we have some try to understand at least to get to the bottom of it right however when you tweet something

if the Tourette's leads to saying something racist we want to presume that that's that's insight into your bad character right Tourette's usually, they don't borrow a hackneyed formula. It's sort of a reflex. Typically, they're not that creative either. No, but obviously, no matter how racist she is, obviously, if she didn't know not to tweet that,

that was going to be, then something was not operating inside her. Something was wrong there. Well, because she's lost the ability to manage, self-manage. And I think too, like- I think I have some insight. I'm sorry.

Oh, sure, of course. For years, she's been tweeting racist and- What had she? Conspiracy theories. Yeah, she's compared other people to apes. Black people to apes. Was that the first time? No.

She hadn't been marginalized. I watched The View. She was actually rewarded for it. She got her show back on the air when her career was sort of languishing for a while. She used to own a macadamia nut farm on Hawaii. Go, go, go. So she wasn't reprimanded for it. In fact, she was given a TV show, and the show was getting great ratings,

and she probably thought, hey, this formula has worked before. Let me... How could she think it's okay to tweet about looking like Planet of the Apes? Well, she claimed she thought the woman was a white woman, that this woman is very light-skinned, and that she simply felt that she, I guess,

resembled one of the characters in Planet of the Apes. Wow, that's interesting. If she really believed that, then... Yeah, then that was a tremendous... Well, she has said that. But she does have that hair kind of like... But let me ask you this question that comes up with a particular actress.

I think ABC did the right thing because obviously if this is her mental state, she needs help, and she should not be in the public eye because it's not going to be serving her or anybody else around her. So maybe it was a good thing that ABC canceled her. Not maybe, it was.

And so that she can get healthy and do what she needs to do and also not offend anybody because the backlash would have been even worse if they kept it on. And what about this? What about the fact, I mean, we're all guilty of this, but we should learn from it that so much of it depends on who's ox's gourd. Roseanne famously was singing the National Anthem 20 years ago, and she grabbed her crotch. And to people who cared about that, that was her racism.

Just insulting the National Anthem, yet people defended her because they kind of agreed with her politics. And it's kind of the same toxic personality showing itself by comparing Valerie Jarrett to Planet of the same toxic personality showing itself by comparing Valerie Jarrett to Planet of the Apes as grabbing your crotch when you're choosing to sing the national anthem in a sporting event.

I will say the apes in Planet of the Apes, these were no ordinary apes. They were smarter than the humans. Oh my God. Now that's a subtlety I don't think that she would do well to advance in her defense, but I make that point. And normally I think they shouldn't fire people, but clearly they had to fire her. They had to fire her.

Yeah, it would have been awful for ABC, and she said a stupid thing. I mean, listen, in today's day and age. It's stunning what she said. It is shockingly stupid what she said. Staggeringly. Is it possible she really thought it was a white woman? Mom, stop it. But again, people I've heard on Ambien,

I've heard on Ambien, people walk out naked. I mean, I heard you could really, really mess you up. My wife did that on Valium. We were walking in the apartment, this very building, and she was upstairs ahead of me, and I got up like a few steps behind her. She was stark naked in the middle of the building. But then she still didn't say anything racist.

Screaming the N-word. Well, the question is. You don't let me finish, Mattel. The question is. I'm sorry. I should have waited. I thought coming. The question is, and we have another guest we'll get to very quickly.

But the question is, do drugs, and I was arguing online about this. Do drugs, and I don't have the answer, but drugs, some say, okay, maybe Roseanne would not have said this if she were not on Ambien, theoretically, but she meant it. So in other words, can drugs make you say and think things you wouldn't otherwise say and think? Yeah, that's the same thing with Mel Gibson. Is alcohol a truth serum, or can it change your thinking and make you irrational and coherent? Well, I think that, you know, that's a very dicey question because I think that it could be that jokes such as comparing somebody looking like Planet of the Apes, like Rondell Sheridan used to joke about looking like McGill or Gorilla. Yes, he did. These things may come to a perfectly okay person's mind, and they know not to say such a joke because part of it is not that the joke should never cross your mind or might not be funny. It's just that given history, you just don't make those kind of jokes.

So maybe Ambien might allow somebody to say that out loud without really showing, meaning that they hate black people. You can, in other words, you can. If you look at Valerie Jarrett, you know, and you want to make fun of her, whatever comes to your mind doesn't mean you're a racist, you know, especially if you think she's. So your point is, and I think I agree with it, is that that joke can cross your mind without you being racist. Yeah.

Listen, if a white person can remind you of somebody, a simian, a black person can remind you of somebody. I mean, that doesn't make, it's possible. But I think the problem is that black people- But you don't say it out loud. And also that black people being compared to apes has been, that narrative has been going on for a long time. Yeah, it's too painful.

You should know better. She should. And no one's even talking about why she even mentioned the Muslim Brotherhood. Like, what's that have to do with, like- Because that's an Obama thing. Yeah, that's because she hates Obama. Anyway- And Muslims.

And Muslims. We have a good discussion. You's an Obama thing. Yeah, that's because she hates Obama. Anyway. And Muslims. We have a good discussion. You did a dumb thing. This has been a great discussion, but we do have a guest who has some interesting things to say. And I'm so mad I have to leave in like 10 minutes. I have her intro right here. It is. Steven.

Okay. Leah Palmieri. Did I say it right? Leah Okay. Leah Palmieri. Did I say it right? Leah. Leah. Palmieri. Leah Palmieri. One of your people.

Is a senior producer for the website Decider and author of the recent article, Stand-Up Specials Should Avoid Politics and Stay Personal Instead. Welcome. Now, you may not get universal agreement on that, but that is your position with regard to stand-up specials. Correct. And I don't expect everyone to agree by any means. But let's hear your...

Don't back down and don't be scared. I fully stand by it, but I... You stand up by it. Just a pun, sorry. First of all, if you have any thoughts about Roseanne, now's the time. No, we went over her. I thought she had anything new to say with regard to Roseanne.

I want to get into this. Okay, so defend that position that Norm has just articulated. You're a liberal or a conservative? I'm a liberal. Okay, go ahead. Is that surprising? No, it's not surprising. You're not surprising.

And I don't want this to be specifically about, you know, I don't want to hear a Trump joke anymore. But that is a part of it. And, you know, I just realized the comedy specials that I was gravitating towards were ones that weren't going near politics that were staying pretty, they were either going very personal or universal. And they weren't they weren't making jokes that, you know, if I want to watch the special again in a month, or in a year, it all of it is still going to be funny. And it's not going to be like, Oh, gosh, we've already heard that joke 10 other times. And, you know, I just think if you want political jokes in 2018, there are plenty of places to get those, more than enough places. And so I'm looking for something that's a little bit more inventive.

That's going to make me laugh. That's going to make me forget about politics because I'm sick of hearing about it. So that's the gist. Did you read the article? She's very impressed with Ali Wong's labial humor. I am. I am. I love Ali.

And I love Ali because that is the kind of thing that I pretty much texted all of my female friends and was like, there is something in here for you. No matter who you voted for, that's relatable and that's fun. The sound your lady makes. But do any of your friends object to the language? Yeah. here for you no matter who you voted for that's relatable and that's fun right but i think but do any of your friends object to the to the language yes yeah big time yes see that that's another that's another object to the language ally used yeah you know not everybody you know is in for blowjob jokes i get that i get that a little bit some of it can be raunchy but i think that you know especially there's a solid first half of that special that is about, you know, being a woman, giving birth, dealing with husbands, you know, that whole work-life balance thing that is so relatable. And she made jokes about it that

I'd never heard before. And so I appreciated that. And I'm not the kind of person, I, I find it to be very lazy if you are a woman and you get on stage and you say, my period, like, unless you're saying something that I've never heard about it before, that makes me laugh. And so Ali, I think, is somebody that is bringing a different voice to females and the female experience. And I really enjoy that. But is your problem with political jokes that you've heard them before? Because certainly there's nonpolitical jokes that you've heard before. So that can't be the issue because one could do's non political jokes that you've heard before Yeah, so that's right

Yeah The issue because one could do an original political joke that you haven't heard just as one could do an original period joke That is that is very true. I look forward to all of those but so why aren't political jokes are Why are they less valid in your mind assuming they're original? original. Trying to be like William F. Bush. You're not the only one that did that. That was terrific. But you're leaning on your left arm. He would lean on his right arm. Was he a righty or is that to do with it?

I have ten minutes. I hate so much that I have to go. I know. I don't want to go. Can Liza at least stay? Listen, I just want to say, as someone who's been performing for a really long time, I've broken my knee. Oh, at least. Listen, I just want to say, as someone who's been performing for a really long time, I've broken my knee. Eliza. I read the article, and I thought to myself, here's the thing.

As a gay person doing comedy, sometimes innately, even if I'm not talking about gay rights, I am being political because being gay and not having equal rights for so long. The personal is political. Exactly. Personal is political. Also, too, I think if you look at art throughout history, art has used politics to make statements to help open and broaden the minds of those who aren't able to be, who didn't have those types of things accessible to them. And so I think, too, like what you were saying is when you're watching some comedians and you thought, oh, it's too much this and too much that and i just you know the fact that there is so much variety

you in a way you contradicted yourself in the article by saying there's too much political humor but then you went on about john mulaney and ali wong and so you gave examples of comics who are giving you what you're looking for which may not be for somebody else so I think and it's also weird to try and limit I think to or to go easy on her that's your opinion but I think it's strange to to try and you know trying to stop someone from speaking their mind, their point of view. And sometimes it is political. And listen, I'm the same way. I watch the news sometimes and I think, you know what? It's just too much today.

And then I can go watch the British Bake Off, which I fucking love that show. Okay, but why do you watch that? Because you've had too much politics. And so that's my point that I'm making. No, but I didn't say it's too much politics. I think you need variety in life. I mean, I love playing you've had too much politics. And so that's my point that I know. But I didn't say it's too much. I think you need variety in life. I mean, I don't I love playing video games. I love sex.

I love doing comedy. I love drawing. I love opera. But I don't do all those all the time. So I think within anything, it's not just about, you know, oh, it's too much for me. I mean, I could have too much Maria Callas for me in one day. I mean, yeah, I think that where I'm coming from is there is too much politics for me. It's on Twitter. It's on the news. It's on you know,

you go to a dinner party like it is. I've never talked about politics like this, like we do in 2018. And so if I'm going to open up my Netflix, I'm going to sit down. I want to laugh. And sometimes even the best Trump joke just reminds me and it's like, I don't want to laugh and sometimes even the best Trump joke just reminds me and it's like I don't want to hear that like that is just I don't want to hear anything about it do you feel like in a way

you're trying to censor artists from speaking their mind because you personally don't like what they're saying no not at all I just avoid them and even if they agree with me and where I'm coming from I still don't want to hear it.

I want something that's completely different that makes me happy and laugh. But don't you think you've solved the problem then by just turning off Twitter? Or who you follow? No. I don't feel like if I go a day and I don't look at Twitter, I still know what all the news of the day is. So how do I escape that? Are you making a broader point? Are you saying that people who are doing stand-up comedy, political-centric stand-up hours

are not successful? They're not getting a wide audience? People are not enjoying them? No, but I think they find their audience for sure, and I think they're, you know, again... So would you have their audience denied that? No, I think that... So then I don't get it then. I think that it's

the people that want political jokes, obviously we need humor more than ever. We do need political jokes. I don't want them in stand-up specials because the Roseanne thing is a perfect example. Within an hour all the news had changed, all the tweets had changed, all the jokes had changed all the information had changed. It was already

stale. So if you are taping a special and it goes up on Netflix, even three months, which I think is a pretty quick way to turn your special around. Already, if you're going to put political things in there, you better be saying something I have never heard. And that means you've never gone on a late night show and done it. You've never tweeted it. Like it has to be something really original and really special.

And it's sort of by the time your special is getting to Netflix, that political joke is old news. The news cycle's moving too quickly. But Labia will always be Labia. It will, it really will. Labia's our evergreen. I agree with that. I'm sorry I'm talking so much, I have a set in five minutes. But I agree with that in the sense of like,

I don't do a lot of political humor because to me, one, it's so changing so quickly, it's not something that I can latch onto and grow with with and to the jokes been made yeah so when you do make a joke about politics it has to be pretty unique yeah but I real quick the other thing too I think is that I think it's interesting to like you know if you want to get real however about this there are people who are in a less privileged position from you whether it's the color of their skin or their sexuality etc etc have a show to do mater I do and you know what they have a real people who are in a less privileged position from you, whether it's the color of their skin or their sexuality, et cetera, et cetera.

Don't you have a show to do in return? I do. And you know what? They have a real backlash from what's happening in politics and need that catharsis in order to express themselves. And so they use humor as a way to express themselves and the struggle that they're not just dealing with, but maybe members of their community.

And so I think it's a weird position to take for you to tell someone, censor yourself because I don't like it. To be fair to Leah, she's not saying, she's just saying what she thinks is the best kind of stand-up special in her opinion. No, but there is something peculiar. She's not trying to censor you and saying you can't do it.

She's saying the recipe in her mind for a successful stand-up special is to follow. I agree with that. But she acknowledged that there are specials that don't follow that are successful. Sure. The thing that I want to say to you, too, is that if you want to make it about your personal experience, that is amazing. Make it personal. I don't know if you have direct Trump stories that you want to talk about.

We went out to lunch once. Sure, okay. How that is affecting your life. I blew him. Did he spank you? I have not heard that joke. I do agree that people tend to hit a lot of the same topics with regard to Trump, with regard to gun violence,

which is another big issue, and I do hear a lot of the same jokes. But at the same time, you hear a lot of the same jokes with regard to other topics. You know, so, you know, let's get off Sherrod. Hackery can exist in political humor. It can exist in or in nonpolitical humor as well. When Ellen came out of the closet, if you watch her Oprah interview, most of the audience at that time said, I don't want to turn on the TV and see lesbians. It's disgusting. It's too much. I just want to. So, you know, there is this kind of I think anytime something as big as Trump is happening right now and so much that's really getting fucked up in a lot of ways, you know, there's a shift.

And the people who take on that shift to express it, to give it sort of a catharsis for the audience as typically artists. I do agree, but I agree with that point. Although, but there's just a lot of, just a lot of dumb. But I agree. A joke should be, I agree with you in the sense of like, I've heard this joke. Gary, Gary. I'm sorry I have to leave.

Gary has a point. No, Mateo. I appreciate your point. Listen to Gary. Sorry, Gary. I love you. I love you. It's so great to see you

and I'll see you around. Great job. And Liza's going with you. Stay in touch, Mateo. You and Liza are never in the same room. My dude is sitting alone in your room. Whatever I'm trying to say. Come to the...

Or whatever. I used to have a girlfriend known as Elsie. I love that song. I think I have a point to make. I bet that you do. And I will say that before you came in, I was like, we are going to really show what's up. But your point isn't nobody should do any political humor.

Your point is about specials. Yes. So I'm going to partially agree with you. I think that, I don't know what percentage, but for most comedians, yes, it's topical, so it's not going to hold up after even three weeks, never mind three months. Two, you're competing. When you're doing political humor, you're competing with the writing staff of Saturday Night Live, Colbert, every single one of the John Oliver, all these great people, and the star of that show. The only thing I will say is that I want to hear, in a special, I want to hear what Patton Oswalt's take is.

I want to hear what David Cross's take, John Oliver's take, and there are a number of others. My guess is I know what their take is. But I still want to hear Noam Dorman's take. Even though he's not that funny. On what, on politics? But you bring up shit that I'm not hearing from, you know, Patton, you can always rely on Patton for fuck Trump. And you can always rely on.

No, he's sharper than that. I don't know that he's that sharp. He's pretty clever. Very clever. The points that Noam has made and makes on a regular basis, to me, are far more interesting than anything I've ever heard Mr. Patton Oswalt say, as good a comic as he is. Thank you, Dan. Well, it's true.

I mean, the point that you made about, for example, Roseanne's joke, about how you might think of a funny joke and not necessarily in a racist way, okay, that's a nuance that I haven't heard. And that's something I want to hear on these comedians say, not the same old, on one side we have everything, fuck Trump and everything, Trump is the devil. And on the other side, you know. That's why Louis needs to come back.

Yeah. Louis was the king of those kind of more subtle observations about an issue that you thought you knew both sides already. Yeah. I think. When I was 18, I had an archaeology professor at Boston College who showed us a picture, a picture, a model, a statue of early man. And he said, doesn't this look like Patrick Ewing?

And at 18 years old, I was like, and not on the cutting edge of liberalism or anything. I was like, this guy on the cutting edge of liberalism or anything i was like this guy's a schmuck yeah he was a professor at a pretty prominent college and i knew that he was wrong to say that and and don't say those things what are you six years old yeah and and so but getting back to the to the specials i i understand your specials you're looking for escapism. Even if I wasn't a comedian, though, I would want some of that. I would want some Jerry Seinfeld, some John Mulaney. But I always wanted to hear what Dennis Miller for a long time had to say about things.

And now he's more rallying cries for the alt-right than he is for jokes. But he's gotten way more conservative than he was in the 80s. Well, he's a libertarian, though. But Lee's take on specials, because I'll tell you when I make a special, because I have a Trump joke that I've done downstairs, and it always gets a big laugh, but I wouldn't

put it in a special. Why? Because I think that people watch my shows, the fans that I've amassed over the years, to escape from that. Yes. And to hear clean comedy because they're averse to dirty comedy. I had a few Fs in my previous specials,

and I was like, what did it really do? It may have upset a couple of people, and it's really not worth it. I'm Lenny Bruce all of a sudden. But you would watch a John Oliver special, wouldn't you? Knowing that he's going to talk about politics? I will say this. I love John Oliver.

I have not watched his show in probably about a year or so, I would say. Yeah, I've avoided it. I've stopped watching Samantha Bee. I love her as well. It's too much. I'm going to have to interrupt because I'm so nervous. I said the wrong thing and I just had to cut this out. First of all, let me be very clear now.

I am not defending. I think it's disgusting to compare. Actually, this happened another time and I was on the same side so you can't like I don't have any I don't give any quarter to somebody who vulgarly compares anybody black

to an ape that's not my point at all my point with Dan's questions is that mean that would the Ambien do that whatever you know what

this is the fucking world we live in why even bother discussing it because we all know what we have to say it's a fucking hostage video we're living in a hostage video and we should all just say what we have to say. It's a fucking hostage video. We're living in a hostage video. And we should all just say what we're supposed to say.

There's no point. I'm serious. You don't think this is hyper really at all? No. Really? I don't think I'm living in a hostage video. I do because what I'm talking about here is the only interesting thing that can actually be said about it. Other than the fact that, of course, it's a fucking vulgar discussing thing to say.

But the only analysis you can do of it is off limits and somebody will take the analysis as if you're defending it. I'm not defending it. You do risk being misunderstood and there's never been a bigger penalty for being misunderstood. It's fucking ridiculous.

It's ridiculous. It's vexing. But she should have been fired.. But she should have been fired. Of course she should have been fired. What about Leah, though? I hope not. I don't want to be fired. I'm going to tell you, Leah, this is the problem. I'm going to tell you what I think you're reacting to.

Well, actually, that's why I should be Republican, or if you're a conservative liberal, because you're actually, I think, describing that you hate Trump so much you can't stand to be reminded of him because it spoils your day. I don't even like jokes about him, though. Yeah, because just to remind you, it's like Esty in the Holocaust. You just can't make a good Holocaust joke to Esty. But I always feel bad that some... And I'm

not saying that... You know how they always say every conversation they'll compare somebody to Hitler? Yeah. I'm afraid that I would have been a comedian during the Holocaust who did, hey, how about this Wiener schnitzel? Being an observational comedian in Germany during that time and never bringing up the Fuhrer.

And I'd look back and be like, I let my people down. I let the world down. And, you know, Trump is on a spectrum somewhere between. But my point what I don't like about that's an interesting point by the way what I don't like about political humor and this is where I thought you might have been coming from

but I guess it's not is that politics is a particular subject matter where the person for the most part delivering the jokes is trying to be preachy nine times out of ten, it's preachy. Or claptrap. Claptrap.

And quite often the subtext is putting down the people on the other side of whatever issue. Aren't they idiots? Aren't they rubes? Whatever it is. So I don't find any of that pleasant. So that's why I don't like political humor on either side, really. But from time to time, when somebody truly is funny, they're funny. And then, you know, I don't care what the subject matter is, but it's a subtext.

And what they're like, they have something to prove a lot of political comedians. And what they want to really prove quite often is how much smarter they are than you. Right. Yeah. I don't like that. Yeah. I also just think like, you know, isn't it we're just grappling for for things to find that we have in common with people that voted differently from us. And if one of those is a joke or a special, like, isn't that just beautiful? I know that sounds a little bit hippie ish, but like I would love to have that in common with somebody and say we both have the same sense of humor. I don't know why we differ politically, but I'm glad we both enjoy this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What a yeah, yeah. What a world. What a world.

What a crazy world. I mean, you know, if they compared, if they mistook a Jew for, I don't know, what, a ferret? Well, yes. Oh, a weasel. A weasel. A weasel or a rat.

I wouldn't blame Google. A weasel or a rat. No, I wouldn't blame Google either. But if I wasn't Jewish, I would be over the top in condemning it. No, of course. Of course. But if anybody said, I heard a comedian comparing, and I won't mention any names, but I did hear

a comedian once say about a Jewish comedian that he had a rat face. This was a non-Jewish comedian that said about a Jewish comedian that he had a rat face. I won't mention any names, God forbid. Did he have a rat? This is the question. Did he have a rat face? I won't mention any names, God forbid. Did he have a rat... This is the question. Did he have a rat face? That's my point, Dan. How?

How? How? A slightly... What comedian... Not completely un-rat-esque... What comedian do we know? I'm not... I will not under torture,

even if you give me an ambien, I will not reveal this information. Has that comedian ever won my, you know about my awards show for horrifically stereotypical portrayals of Jews in cinema and television,

the Kikis. Did this comedian ever win a Kiki? He might have been nominated. I think in Variety, it said, for your consideration. But, anyhow. That's very, very sensitive stuff.

Obviously. And rightfully so. And I was upset that this comedian had said this about this other comedian, but I'm like, I don't think he meant it anti-Semitically. I think he was just making a comment that struck me as horrifying.

Okay. Do we believe Roseanne? What do you make of all this, Leah Palmieri? I know what you're going to say about this, but I'm like, why do we keep being so mean

about people's appearances? I agree with you about that, too. You know, I think that's... You're so right. I think it's much more fair ground to comment on somebody's Unless it's Sarah Huckabee Sanders, in which case it's perfectly okay. Well.

I mean, I don't think we should talk about I didn't think that was about Sarah Huckabee's appearance. It wasn't. Yes, it was. You're saying that we should What is fair ground to make fun of? People's intelligence or their willingness to. Let me tell you about it. Intelligence is

equally as out of our hands, I think, as is looks. Their willingness to learn I think is more ignorance maybe I don't believe in free will so I submit it's all out of our hands What are we cutting out of this episode? Certainly you're

fetching about how Vegas is doing Can we really trust you to cut this out? You're not quite of color, but you have sympathy for that part of the world. Can I trust you to... Look, we got into

some very, very... Can we trust you? Touchy stuff. Listen, my wife's of color, okay? My children are a certain part... This is how you guys actuallyy stuff. Listen, my wife's of color, okay? My children are a certain part. This is how you guys actually sound desperate. Oh, yeah.

My children are 132nd Native American. Did you know that? Just like Elizabeth Warren. I didn't know that. We call her Pocahontas. Okay, that's very good. We got to go. We got to wrap it up.

Okay. Listen, Gary, I want Lou to cut in one of your bits that's already been released. Has the state abbreviation been released publicly? Sure. Seven million views on Facebook. Okay. So, Stephen, can you just, all that interesting, subtle analysis, just cut it all out and put Gary's interesting, subtle state abbreviation bit, which is, I think, genius. One of your favorites.

Genius. state abbreviation bit, which is, I think, genius. And it is the example of a bit that, though it does not it is not speaking truth to power, it is speaking abbreviations to postal codes. I think it's an incisive commentary

on bureaucracy and neoliberalism. Good night, everybody. So the preface is this. It's a movie about the men and one woman who abbreviated all 50 states down to two letters. If you're too young or you don't remember, there was a time in this country where every state had its own abbreviation.

It was chaos. Massachusetts was M-A-S-S period. New York was N-Y, but like Utah was Utah. They just dropped the H. But then in like 1973, the post office said, no, this can't be anymore. We need uniformity. Every state must have a two capital letter abbreviation.

So they brought together a crack squad of abbreviators. They assembled a ragtag outfit of rogues, misfits, and ne'er do wells. How often do well? Ne'er. Air? Oh no, nair. They nair did well.

And these brave men and one woman were charged with abbreviating all 50 states down to two letters. Now I read the description and I thought to myself, how are they going to make a 98 minute documentary about a task that couldn't have taken more than six minutes

to complete? Boy was I wrong. It was an adventure every bit as compelling as Helvetica. A tour de force. Ups and downs, ins and outs. Friends became enemies. Enemies became friends.

They started off, they thought it was going to be easy. Oh, no. I said, what's the first one? Alabama. AL. Oh, my God, this is easy. We're going to be finished I said what's the first one Alabama AL oh my god this is easy we're going to be finished before they stop serving breakfast in the hotel restaurant

which was 9.30 it's too early and the boss said guys if we finish before they stop serving breakfast, breakfast is on me. And one of the guys said,

oh, I hope they have an omelet station. Just for context, the omelet station had just been invented, and understandably, it was sweeping the nation. This guy was thrilled. He's like, oh, I hope they have an omelet station. And this other guy said,

you know what? I'm not comfortable with the omelet station. I just feel like the omelet chef resents you. You know, because he didn't want to be the omelet chef. He wanted to be the chef chef. And now he's making like the easiest dish while you and your ugly wife and your stupid kids are watching him

demanding he put more ham cubes into a Denver omelet that's already busting with cheese, and you get turkey bacon, now it's healthy? No. I think one day he's going to snap, and I don't want to be there when it happens. And they said, well, then just get Eggs Benedict.

Well, I don't like holiday sauce. Did you just say holiday sauce? It's Holland days, you fucking moron. And the boss said, guys, can we get back to abbreviating the states, we still have 49 left. And apologies were made and an understanding was reached. And they went back to abbreviating. I said, what's next?

Alaska. Everybody cool with AL? But somebody caught it. Sir, I think we might have used that one before. Are you sure? Pretty sure. Well, let's just check the minutes. Dottie! Dottie, let's just check the minutes. Dottie!

Dottie, read the minutes back to us. Dottie was the wisecracking secretary. Every 1970s office had a wisecracking secretary, and 60% of them were named Dottie. The other 40, Carol. But this one was Dottie, and she was a card. A pistol, a hot ticket. Oh, Dottie was sassy.

And they said, Dottie, read the minutes back to us. And this is so Dottie. How Dottie is this? She goes, you mean the minute? That is quintessential Dottie. That is Dottie in a nutshell. I said, oh, Dottie, what are we going to do with you?

Spank my ass and make me a martini? Oh, Dottie. Dottie, you're incorrigible. Now read the minutes back to us, you little vixen. And she said, it's Holland days, you fucking moron. Et tu, Dottie? Et tu?

How do you know Shakespeare but you don't know Holland days? That is a paradox. Anyhow, Alaska, AL, Alabama, AL. We did use that one before, boss. The boss said, he was a leader. You gotta give him credit for this. He was a leader. He said, guys, not a big deal.

We'll come back to it. We'll go ahead. we'll circle back around. We'll get it. It's not gonna happen again. Certainly not gonna happen 27 more times. Foreshadowing. So what's the next one? Arizona, AR, boom, I told you, next, Arkansas, shit.

All right, I'm sorry guys, I gotta let that, all right, all right, let's just keep going. We'll come back to it. California, CA, all right, there we go. Colorado, CO, some momentum. Connecticut, fuck me hard. Somebody needs a drink. Not now, Donnie!

You vulgar lush. By the time they got to Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, followed by Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, and Missouri, shots were fired. They were at each other's throats.

They did what any savvy business would do. They hired a consultant. They brought in a contractor. Not a contractor, a contractor. A man who made words smaller by combining them or apostrophizing them. And he was the best. He was very respected in that field.

He was very well known because he had done some of the greatest abbreviations of all times. He wrote, O'clock. Many years ago, we would say it's nine of the clock. It's 10 of the clock. This man said, we don't need the fff.

I'll do that with a sky comma. That's how long ago it was. The apostrophe hadn't been named yet. He also wrote, bleed at. Huge in some communities. But he was not without controversy. He also wrote the most controversial abbreviation of all time.

He wrote won't. People said, how are you going to abbreviate will not and not use a single L? He said, watch me. What are you saying? I won't be able to do what I just did. Can't. Never tell me I can't. able to do what I just did can't never tell me I can't

motherfucker I invented can't can't long story short they made it on time for breakfast