The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Gays, Women, Louis CK and the Comedy Cellar Table

Episode Date: November 17, 2017

Owner of the world famous Comedy Cellar, Noam Dworman, is joined at the table by Cellar regulars and Guy Branum to talk about his article accusations from Vulture and the Cellar's impact on the current situations within the world of comedy.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, Riotcast.com. Hi, good evening everybody, welcome to The Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99, the comedy channel. We're here at the back table of the Comedy Cellar. My name is Noam Dwarman. I'm the owner of the Comedy Cellar. I'm here with my co-host, Mr. Dan Natterman. How do you do? This has been quite a week this week. We had the very important member of our family here got in trouble for some serious moral lapses, and maybe we can talk about that later on. But we also had an article written about us in Vulture.com by Mr. Guy Branum, who is here today.

And then we have a bunch of Comedy Cellar comedians here to talk about it. Let me just, and thank you for coming, Guy. Let me just run it down, if you didn't read the article. There's an article in Vulture.com this week called Tear Down the Boys Club That Protected Louis C.K. by Guy Branum. And Branum describes the back table at the Comedy Cellar. You know, I'm nervous. I'm feeling

like heart beating. The Comedy Cellar is the best club and the table Louis CK sat at was the table occupied by the likes of Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld, and Marc Maron. That table is the most important force in comedy. There are rarely women at that table. There are never gay men,

never gay men or trans people. He goes on to accuse us of being a boys club and, and this is not quote, boys club is in quotes, and of rank bigotry, claiming that table regulars made sure, quote, people who weren't like them didn't get to be part of the club. I am not like them. Louis' victims were not like them. He ends his essay, the table is the Problem. Burn down the table. And he says, just to read one other quote to be fair, he says, I'm scared to write this

because I know the people who sit at the table will see it and say I'm not a real comic and I don't value real comedy. Writing this means I never get to sit at the table. Well, you are at the table. At the beginning of my career... I wasn't talking about a literal table. Also, my headphones at the table. At the beginning of my career... I wasn't talking about a literal table. Also, my headphones aren't working.

They're not working? Is it working now? Yeah. Okay. So where was I? Sorry about that. At the beginning of my career, I was invited to sit in some lesser comedy boys club. I did my best to play by the rules. I kept silent as they denigrated women or explained to me how I wasn't like the other gays.

It never earned me real respect for anyone. Okay, so that's basically it. Anyone particular, or the least of all, myself. Okay, so, I mean, of course, I saw this, and I got very, very upset. And I'm going to give you ample time to explain yourself. Because in 2017, there's nothing worse that you can say about somebody in public than to call them a bigot. And that's what you're calling me here. And I felt that you had no basis for that.

It's ironic. In the old days, in a libel case, I think I'm getting this right, if you called somebody a homosexual, that was considered libel per se. Meaning you didn't even have to show damages or certain things that if you were to accuse somebody wrongly of something, you don't need to show damages. We know you're damaged. And I think in 2017, if there's something analogous to that,

it's being called a bigot. It's career ending. All over the world, people now associate me with anti-gay bigotry, anti-female bigotry. Friends of mine, you know, I've lost touch with, oh, I didn't realize he was anti-gay or whatever. Tremendous thing to say about somebody. So at first, I wrote New York Magazine an email, and I said, if we can settle this nicely, it would be amazing. Ask Branham, and I'm sure you'll find that he has no actual knowledge of what he's talking about. What he described is precisely the opposite of the truth.

Just have the editor actually question about his factual basis after you do. If you have any standards, you'll retract the story. It doesn't need to be any uglier than that. Meaning, I felt if they would just ask you, where did you get the idea that there was no gay ever at the table? They would speak to you, and they would realize, well, you actually didn't have that information. And being New York Magazine, Vulture.com, they would fix it, right?

No. Doesn't work that way. They couldn't care less. They didn't even respond to me. They didn't even respond to me. And it makes you think, what's the whole world? Like, you know, I hate to use a right-wing, like, trite cliche about fake news, but if New York Magazine is ready to publish anything, and they're not even interested to check on how the journalist got his facts, then how do we trust anything that's written?

So, anyway, tell us, how did you arrive at the fact that there's never gays at the table and there's never women? Okay, the line before where you started reading, I said, as depicted on the FX show, Louis. And I really want to emphasize to you, I did not intend to say anything that was reflective about your policies or your... I in no way meant to assert

that you guys are any better or any worse than any other part of the comedy community. However... I don't care about what you say about comedy. Only talk about what you say about me. I don't care. I could be worse than the comedy community. It's still about me. The Comedy Cellar is the representation of the comedy community

that is used to represent the highest heights of the comedy community. In Louis. In the documentary comedian. You misrepresented how you started. I'm going to read it to be fair. It doesn't start as depicted. It says, at the Comedy Cellar in Greenwich Village, there's a table where the comics sit. It's where they joke, debate, goof off, and ridicule their friends.

As depicted in the FX series, Louis is the most fun place to be. Every club has it. I said every club has one. At that point in time, I was shifting away from talking about this specific table to talking about the idea that what we saw on the HBO series

Talking Funny or Talking Comedy, what we saw in the documentary Comedian, that men like Louis C.K., Jerry Seinfeld, and Chris Rock are the apex of our community. And really never talking about or representing excellence outside of that. And the comedy cellar has, in so many of those things, been the place where that was represented.

So are you ready? First things first. Are you ready to say that it's not true that gays are never at the table? At this literal table, of course there have been gays. At the Comedy Cellar. The thing, this week you guys have Mehran Kagani performing. The thing that makes me saddest about everything that I wrote is the fact that it did not respect or contemplate

the place of Jim David at this club or on Tough Crowd. Like, having a gay man in stand-up comedy, there are currently no gay touring national headliners. That's about my club here.

I couldn't not care less about anything you say about anybody. I might agree with you. There's plenty of bigots in the world. The only thing I was saying about your club, the only thing I was saying about your club, is that it is the apex, and it is reflective

of that. It is because it is on Louis. Because it is the representation of the comedy community that you saw on Louis. And that was an article. Hold on. No, no. It's worse. There's a better answer than that. On Louis, when he depicted the comedians, all right, it was at the poker game rather than at the table, but it was the same group.

It was at the poker game. That is the only time that Rick Crumb showed up on that show. And when he stopped teaching Louis a lesson, he went away. I did three of them. Okay, I'm sorry. We did three poker table episodes. And it was a huge event in the gate. We got a lot of attention as being one of the most sensitive portrayals.

And it was credited with stopping stand-up comics from using the word fag in their acts, all because of that thing that came from the comedy cellar. Which was something that Lou Louis asked me to do when I saw him here at the table. He said, I want to put those stories that you've said here at the table on the show. And I want to reflect how we all, we all are supportive of one another.

We bust each other's balls. But at the end of it, I'm still part of it. I'm still one of the crowd. So that in that scene, not only is there all this information, there's also this great camaraderie and acceptance that I think that should be reflected in any... Was that reflective of the comedy seller? Yes. think that should be reflected in any... Is that reflected? Was that reflective of the comedy seller?

Yes. Listen, this is how I fantasized this show would go. That you would come here and you would acknowledge, you know what, you're right. I shouldn't have said that about the table. I should have been clear. I didn't mean the table. Whatever you meant. And I said, oh, that'd be great.

And then we could launch into a bigger discussion of the things that are important to you, which are how women are treated, how homosexuals are treated. But it's very important to me that you clear my name. Or if you don't want to clear my name, you don't have to, that you back it up with some facts. I have asserted that I'm not claiming that this club is any better or worse. You keep doing that. I don't care about any other club. You said that this table never has gays.

Never. Is that true? No, it is not true. This table rarely has women. Is that true? Again, I feel, no. I feel bad about the extent to which that was dismissive of people like Laurie Kilmartin, who I respect so much, to whom this club means so much.

But at the table that is the big table of comedy, when we are talking— You should have written about the big table of comedy. I did write about the big table of comedy. Listen, I know by the end you had claimed, and I'm about ready to turn it over to other people, you had claimed that you were using the table as a metaphor. Yes. And I thought about that, and I tried to be fair to you about that. And I said, well, okay, by the end, when he says burn down the table,

that must be a metaphor. He doesn't really mean somebody come in here and burn down the table. Not remotely. So by the end, I see that you were using the table to represent the bigger problem that you want to talk about. But then I thought about metaphors. I said, well, you know, one metaphor we hear used sometimes in a racial situation is he's running a plantation.

Now, you can't make that metaphor if the thing you're basing it on isn't also evil at its heart. In other words, you can't. It's true the plantation is a metaphor, but it only works because the plantation itself is evil. As I've said before, it is no better or worse than any other club. And you can't use the comedy cellar as the table, as the metaphor, as the embodiment of the problem you want to do. You can't make it a metaphor for evil without also saying that the actual table is evil.

And that's why you cannot use me for your metaphor and then at the same time claim, but it's not true, there are gays and women at your table. Why would you choose me as a metaphor if there's gays and women at this table? It's a dumb metaphor. Choose something that doesn't have gays and women and use that as your metaphor.

Leave me out of it. Because you damaged me. You damaged me. In so much media, this club is used to represent the apex of what stand-up comedy in america is the documentary comedian um in uh top five in on louis that is why i was using this table like because it is where when we imagine the biggest names in comedy, like, hanging out together, it is here. And when we talk about those biggest names, it is almost exclusively heterosexual men. Now, may I speak freely?

Yeah. First of all, no, welcome to the big time. By the way, I also saw his video, and he's funny. I don't even know why he thinks he wouldn't get on here, but go on. Oh, you know, Noam, if you start taking to heart everything that people say about you, you're going to drive yourself nuts. I agree with you 100% that this article unfairly represented

the seller, but I say calm down. It's all good. I asked Dan before we go on. I said, Dan, can you do one favorite today? Just don't get into correcting me about things because it's just not the episode I wanted. The one thing I asked him. Well, I asked you if I could speak freely or not.

I said, can I speak freely? And you said, go ahead. I thought you meant about him. All right. So I cannot speak freely. Fine. You can speak freely, but go ahead. Speak freely.

Can I speak freely? Or not? Yes. I'm just saying, Noam. You know, you're no one in this town unless someone wants you dead. I believe that was the great who said that? One of those managers, Bernstein, what was his name?

Eddie Davis. No. Eddie Davis. Well, it was one of those two founders. It was Sue Simmons. It was Sue Simmons. Well, I don't know who it was, Noam, but you better get used to people coming at you because you're in the big leagues now. Okay, Dan, really. That's number one. Move on. Okay. Number two, I don't think you it was, Noam, but you better get used to people coming at you because you're in the big leagues now. Okay, Dan, really. That's number one.

Move on. Okay. Number two, I don't think you're going to get this guy to admit what he wants you to admit. He did already. He did. He admitted that there was no way. Yes, he did. He did.

He did. He did. Okay. But can we get to the larger issues that he still feels are a problem? Because I debated him. I don't know if you remember Dan Natterman, at Dan Natterman. I know who you are, Dan Natterman. No, but not only that, but we had some sparring going on

on Twitter. Yes. Gentlemanly, calm, but, you know, there were differences of opinion. But he still feels that the seller, he rattled off some statistics, is under-representing gays and women. Yeah, he said we had 17% women. And he used that as a thing. Now, we should talk about

that. That's why I think we're going to get the I want to say one more thing, and then let's get to the 17% women. I he used that as a thing. Now, we should talk about that. That's why I think we're going to get the above. Can we hold that? I want to say one more thing, and then let's get to the 17% women. I just want to let you know something. At five years old, I used to be taken to dinner parties with gay couples, gay male couples. My father and my grandmother would take me to socialize with gay male couples at five years old. And I knew and understood. They told me exactly what it was.

And my whole life has been like that. This place, in the 60s, was known to be accepting of gays. As a place where gays could come and work and didn't have to hide. Before anybody was like that. What you've done is attacked the very people who are on your side. And you should really think about that before you make accusations when you don't know what you're talking about. You could not have come at the wronger person about attitudes about homosexuals. You could not have made a bigger mistake.

I want to tell you that, eye to eye. Go ahead. Now, he complained that we have 17% women, and my attitude is, I'm like the NBA. I put the best five players on the court. As a matter of fact, I saw a game a couple weeks ago, there were 10 black players on the court. I presume those are the best 10 players. If there's a funny woman I'm not using, they should come here and let me know who it is. And believe me, I want to use them because all I want to do is have the audience kill. Now, Joyelle is new here. And I asked some of the comedians who are new and I don't know as well because I don't want to be accused of stacking the deck.

And yes, you can speak for them. And they may agree with you about some of this. And that's fine. Go ahead, Joyelle. Okay. Joyelle Johnson. Joyelle Johnson. That's me.

I just got passed last year here and um i kind of when i was reading the article what resonated with me was the intimidation factor that the table has the actual physical table that is here like when i come to this table there are usually white men here and if i sit down for the most, it's kind of rare if there is another female, sometimes there'll be another female. It's very rare if it's another black female. So we notice it if there are others. However, that's representative of comedy. I feel as well because there are not, there aren't as many women in comedy. So there are, why do you think there's not as many women? I do not personally think that comedy is a feminine trait that is nurtured in females from the beginning.

I think comedy is more of a masculine trait. It's nurtured in men. And so for women to be at the table, we're here. There's not that many of us. But I do think it's representative of what is in comedy. And they do put women on the shows. But from the intimidation factor, I totally understand that. Because if you come to a table and you're not represented, that's intimidating.

I imagine you face that in life in many places. And I don't face that everywhere. I don't find anything about that insulting. But you're never meant to feel unwelcome, are you? I don't know. It might be in my own head because I kind of feel like

it's a percentage that's my own head. Adrian, you want to come? Let's see. Adrian and I got passed on the same night as well. Adrian Iapaloochee.

I'm always afraid to say her name. Adrian, what do you think about what Joyelle said? Hit it. I guess I could relate to feeling intimidated at first, but then when you, you know, that's like the first couple weeks you

feel a little weird, but then, you know, I kind of know all these people. I started doing stand-up with them, so I don't feel intimidated anymore. I feel comfortable. I never feel like I'm unwelcomed at the table. Is there something we could be doing to make the table more welcoming?

I always feel uncomfortable. So that's a point. In other words, that's a personality trait of yours? That's a personality trait for me. But I also think it's doubled down if I'm the only person representative of my demographic sitting in a space. Well, I'll tell you something.

A guy wanted to answer. On the subject of underrepresentation of women, I do really think that sexual harassment of the sort that Louis participated in dissuades people from participation, dissuades people from being able to comfortably, you know, like enter these spaces. Like one of the things we're really not talking about is what happened to the career of Dana Goodwin and Julia Walloff after they got threatened at Aspen. What happens to somebody like Rebecca Corey? What happens to most of our careers? Write down the shitter. But Dan, it's very easy to say, Dan, it's very easy to say, oh, comedy is hard for everyone.

God knows comedy is hard for everyone. God knows comedy is hard for everyone. But if you look at the stats, it is clearly, there are forces that are pushing at women and gay men in a different way. Okay. So let's, I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with that, but assuming it's true that women and gay men are intimidated from coming into the comedy business, that's not the fault of the comedy seller. No, not remotely. I was using the comedy seller as a representative of the apex of the culture of comedy. Okay, Rich has something to say. This is Rich Voss.

Rich has a female wife. Female wife. I 100% disagree. What upsets me is when hack journalists write about something they don't know. We've sat here, Keith and I, for 15 years at this table. Almost maybe 15 to 20 years. You also linked another article about the Comedy Cell seller to your article and in that article it mentions keith's name my name bobby's name and a bunch of other names so you're linking us to a racist sexist table

it was an article that listed 17 names three of which were women but that doesn't matter yes it does matter no my name was in that and by, I'm not a racist or a sexist comic. I made a movie about pro-women. And what I'm saying is you, in my opinion, did no research. And you just used a comedy seller and the comics here to put your point of view out. Why would I do that, Rich? Why would you do that? Because this is the most

famous table in comedy. This is the most famous club. That's exactly why I did it. Because it is the most famous table in comedy. Can I say a word in your, in guys, I don't know if this is the case, but I could make the argument. Where I think your mistake was is that I think you failed to realize how serious people would take painting them with the brush that you painted them. I think if you had realized how offended people would be by being called a bigot or racist or even the implication,

then maybe you would have worded your chosen your words much more carefully to make it clear. I don't mean to say that the comedy seller is bigoted. I mean, everything that you're saying now, because most of what you're saying, I may agree or disagree against it, but I don't find it offensive. You're right to your opinion, and we love

that here, people having different opinions. But assassinating character is something else. And you veered into that even if you didn't mean to. One thing I really want to emphasize is that Vulture asked me to what my thoughts were on it. They said they were asking a lot of

comics, mostly women. I didn't even know if it was something I should talk about because it was an issue that doesn't primarily deal with gay comics and that's what I am more capable of talking about. I wrote this very quickly, and it really just came from my gut reactions to media representations of comedy. It is observations that were far more rooted in media representations of the cellar than actual experience here.

That said, I was angry, and I am still angry, that we have a culture as a community that knew that this guy was pulling this shit and didn't do anything to stop it. I hear people saying, everybody knew, everybody knew. Let me tell you something. I didn't know. I asked a lot of people about this.

Is it true? Is it true? Nobody I could find knew. This kind of like cliche now that everybody knew. I do not believe it's true. We all heard the same rumors that eventually Gawker heard and published, but nobody knew that I know of. Well, we heard the rumors. Dan's going to correct me. Go ahead.

I'm not going to correct you. Go ahead. I'm going to give you my point of view. Go ahead. Nobody knew for sure. Well, we all heard the rumors, and it was up for everybody individually to decide how much they believed it. I think you're wrong when you say we all heard the rumors. I didn't hear any of these rumors. You didn't hear the rumors, and it was up for everybody individually to decide how much they believed it. I think you're wrong when you say we all heard the rumors.

I didn't hear any of these rumors. You didn't hear the rumors. Many people heard the rumors. I heard the rumors when the rumors were published. I heard the rumors about seven years ago. Dan always believed them. I thought they were probably true, yes. But many other people told me they thought they weren't true.

And let's be fair, the rumor was much... Some had worse. No, no, I'd say it's much worse because the Times reported that he asked these two girls and they laughed and then he did it and maybe he took that as consent.

The rumor was that he kept them there against his will, against their will. And that's a serious crime. Right. So that's a much more... So when everybody knew,

meaning the rumor they knew, what they knew was wrong. What they thought they knew, he could have gone to jail for for a pretty good amount of time. I'm not clear, maybe exposing yourself, if they could claim that he knew that they weren't consenting with the law. It gets much more complicated. If you have an industry where the vast majority. Nobody was covering for Louis. Nobody was covering for Louis If you have an industry where the vast majority of the people At the highest levels Like vast majority are heterosexual men And you have stuff like this going on

And nobody's calling them on it How can we call them on it? We didn't know There was no name to it Let me tell you who didn't know Let me tell you who should be going after Courtney Cox and David Arquette They knew They were the executive producers of that show Let me tell you who didn't know. Let me tell you who should be going after. Courtney Cox and David Arquette. They knew.

They were the executive producers of that show. Now listen, if somebody comes to me in my place and says so-and-so did something terrible to me, I fire that person. I don't put it on the victim and make them feel guilty so the victim finally says, I don't want to be the one responsible for screwing up the production. And then say, okay, well then we'll just let him stay here. If what Louis did is bad enough that he's supposed to lose everything that he lost, then it was certainly bad enough that they had no right not to fire him and do something about it right then. They covered for him like a priest who covers for another priest

that they found out was molesting. They are the two people who I can tell you for sure did what it is that you're complaining about. They put this poor victim in the position where she had to choose, where she had to be the one to make the production stop. They could have fired Louis and gotten a new guest star just like they took Kevin Spacey out of the other movie.

It's done all the time. Actors get fired and they replace him. They are guilty. I want to see you... I'm not... Do you disagree with me? Look... They are the one villain I can tell you for sure. I'm not Courtney Cox or David Arquette. I am a comedian. Does anybody follow my logic in what I'm saying?

I am a comedian and what I want to do is make a culture... First tell me whether you agree with me. I'll say whatever you want. First tell me if you agree with what I just said. I don't have a strong policy on the sexual harassment policies of Courtney Cox's production company. No, you're worried about people covering for

Louie. And I'm saying we do know two people that covered for him. Yes. That's bullshit. They knew. It wasn't us who knew. It was Courtney Cox and David Arquette. They covered for him. They took no action against him. They kept him on and paid him after he did this on their set. I will say this.

So why are you complaining about us? I will say this. If you have reason to suspect a reasonable probability of somebody that you know doing something horrible, it's not sufficient to say, but I don't know for sure. The reality is we didn't think it was that bad, most of us. Dan, do you agree with what I said about David Arquette? Yes, sure, fine. I don't know much about that.

Let me tell you, Dan, shut up for a second. Let me tell you another story, really upsetting me. Because I'm speaking freely, I'm upsetting you. We had a waitress here. If you knew he had done those things, you wouldn't have done anything anyway. You're speaking freely because there's no woman at the table who you're like, she's not going to take me on the road if I say this. Listen.

Like, it is. Go ahead. Listen. We had a waitress here who accused a comedian of rape. This actually happened to me. Yes. And I did not know what to do about it. And I said, listen.

And she demanded I stop giving him spots. And I said, look, I can't do that. You have to go to the police. I don't know what happened there. And I actually did ask a few questions. I was like, well, how did he get into your apartment? He said, well, I let him into my apartment. How did he get into your bed?

Well, we were going to lay down together. I'm like, you know what? I can't judge this. You need to go to the police. And she's upset with me. Like two weeks later, I see them making out like nothing happened. And like a year and a half later, they have a child together. So I'm telling you that it's not so easy when you hear.

Rapes happen in relationships as well. No, of course they do. But I'm saying I, as a boss, you know, I've talked about this before. We know what fair is in the world. It took us thousands of years. This is what fair is. Procedure, accusation, evidence, cross-examination, impartial judge. That's what's fair. And that's how things are.

We've short-circuited everything. We have criminal procedures. We're not interested in that, right? If we don't get to that line, we have civil procedures. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. You have civil procedures, but you can get a lawyer and sue. In a workplace, you even have labor procedures. Now we said, you know what? All that Western gobbledygook procedures of evidence and scales of justice, no. If somebody says something to the boss, the boss should just fire them. I have no way of knowing what's going on. That sounds great, but that reminds me of the movie Death Wish.

It's great if Charlie Bronson kills the right guy, but that's not a system of justice. You cannot fault us for stop hiring Louis because there was a rumor. But you can fault David Arquette and Courtney Cox because they knew. Can I ask you something, Noam? You're probably not going to like this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway, and you can say no comment. If you knew that Louis had done what he is... Just one thing to say to you. I went to law school. I believe very

deeply in the Constitution and I believe very deeply in the rights of the accused. But I also believe that we create a community. And this is different from other jobs. At other jobs if shit goes down, you can go to HR. There's no HR for comedy. There isn't. And I'm not HR.

But I don't know if I answered Dan's question properly. There are not enough facts in that New York Times article for me to say I know what happened. If I take the first example, I would have questions. I'd say, well, okay, when you guys started laughing, do you think he knew that you weren't consenting? Is it possible he thought you were consenting? What did he say? I would want to know because it's a big thing to tell somebody you're not going to work anymore. It's like I told somebody like, every time I, oh, Louis has plenty of money.

You know, imagine you're a painter and somebody says, you know what? You're never going to hold a brush again. But don't worry, you have money. It's not that easy. If I knew somebody committed a terrible crime against somebody, I would not want to use them. But I am not judging jury. Okay, but follow-up question. More than anything, I would tell them, listen, I would really like you to go to the police, get a lawyer, whatever, sue him, whatever it is,

so that this man can answer the charges with the same ability that you're able to make them. Follow-up question. Is that make them. Follow-up question. Is that like a crazy— Follow-up question, please. If you thought there was a reasonable possibility, not for sure, but a reasonable possibility that he did those things, would you take steps to determine the truth to the best of your ability, or would you just say, I don't know, and let it go at that?

I would try to determine the truth. Okay. I mean, there's so many scenarios here. I think Guy is saying is that not everybody, but certain people, first of all, there's some people that heard it and didn't think what he did was all that horrible. Some people said, well, I really don't know, and I'm not going to make an effort to find out more

because it's inconvenient to do so. Joyelle? Well, there was no way to find out more because it's inconvenient to do so. Joyelle? There was no way to find out more. Go ahead, Joyelle. Wait, wait, Joyelle. Do you see how men are? I had a question for you, Noam, and this is just a question. Do you feel like you have more responsibility as an owner of a club to figure out if these rumors have a basis?

Well, you know, I'm answering, and by the way, I just want to say, a lot of these things I'm answering off the top of my head. Right. And haven't had time to think through. I'm answering off the top of my head and haven't had time to think through. I want to say that. But normally, as the owner of the club, I feel my main thing is the protection of the people who work for me. Doesn't that also include the females that would

be accusing? Yeah, but I'm saying in other words, I would not tolerate for a second if something like that happened to a waitress here. A story that happened 10 years ago about something that happened in a hotel room, this is really impossible to expect me to investigate it, to make a decision on. It's just not fair. At some point, and listen, we had a big meeting about sexual harassment,

and I said everything I needed to say, but then there's one fact I can't get around, which is that no matter what procedures you create, for whatever reason, women don't want to use them. And that's meaning that for whatever reason, no matter what we do, women feel uncomfortable coming forward with this stuff. Would your ability to communicate about this stuff be different or feel different if you were in a space where Sarah Silverman and Ellen and other people of that stature who were women were here on a regular basis? Adrienne? I mean, Louis asked me a couple months ago to work on a show with him and I was excited

about it. He was nothing but respectful to me. So, and I kind of knew these rumors existed, but also I feel like for me to make a decision about something like that, I would need to be there and see what happened. Cause I've heard conflicting stories about a lot of stuff that happened, that these girls went on stage, they were laughing about it after. So, I don't know. And I'm probably going to get, like, dragged through the mud for this. I think what happened to Louis was wrong. I don't think that what he did, he didn't assault anybody. He asked for permission.

I don't know. I still think he should be allowed to perform at the Cellar. But why is it our responsibility if, look it, comics in general. We're general, we're just comics. We're not police. There's hundreds of comics that come in and out of this club.

He can't follow everything that they do in life, whether it's legal or illegal. Some might be shooting heroin. Some might be, you know, coke addicts. So what I'm saying is his job is to run a great club, put on great comics, and that's basically what a club... Hold on. When Louis works the garden,

are they supposed to say you can't work here? No. That's not the job of a club owner or a promoter. And our job as comics is not to police every other comic what they're doing in life. I've got to worry about my family. I don't worry about...

Let Adrian say something. I want to say something and then you can talk. Well, what I was going to say is that all the managers here are women. The booker is a female. So if I felt uncomfortable about something, I would go to them and talk to them about it. I get the feeling Keith has chomping at the bit to say something.

I want to ask Guy one question. If I find out that my bartender, somebody says, you know what? I know your bartender. Ten years ago, somebody told me he took out his dick and beat off in front of some girls in California. My bartender. Should I fire him? Really think about it. If I find out that someone who worked for me did that in their past, should I fire them?

Do you reasonably think that he is a threat to do something like that no i don't think he's a threat now but he did it i don't think louis was a threat now either he did it he did it 10 to 10 15 years ago do i fire them again that's not necessarily for me to say i'm not somebody well i'm asking you a real but you need to think about these moral questions what what if what i'm saying what if i found out that somebody did? If I were you, I would go to five female comics and I would ask them, how do you feel about that? Do you feel cool about that? But do you understand that you can't start firing people because somebody tells you

that they did something? I didn't say anybody should fire anybody. I said that if our art form had more women in it and women in higher, like, at higher levels, this stuff would be less likely to happen. And because this stuff happens, it dissuades women from participation.

I know. This idea that the greats are all men, the idea of creating a structure where they are the people who have the capacity to get you work and get you opportunities is going to... But your headline was, tear down the boys club that protected Louis C.K. And I'm telling you, I didn't protect Louis C.K.

I don't know anybody who did, except for Courtney Cox and David Arquette. I think that's clear. But it's a lot easier. And what you're describing, if we protected Louis C.K., then I should fire my bartender if I hear a story about him that he might have done 10 years ago. And what I start to say is that I know the problem here is because the answer would be women should always come forward and take advantage of the procedure.

So then there could be a hearing. The problem is that psychologically, that's painful for them. But also they assume they will not be believed. They assume they will not be believed. And they assume that people will not consider it to be significant. Those are some of the reasons. Sometimes it might just be because it's embarrassing or they just want to forget.

Like sometimes when something bad happens. Well, what's important is that we men should speculate about how women feel. No, no. I can speculate about human beings. When something terrible happens to me, sometimes I just want to talk about it. I just want to move on. I don't want to talk about it.

Somebody wants to ask me about it. I say, I don't want to go forward about it. Somebody stole $150,000 from me one time. That's pretty worse. Is that worse than what Louis did? from me one time. That's pretty worse. Is that worse than what Louis did? I don't know. It's pretty bad. And I didn't even want to go through the criminal procedure. I just wanted to move on and not have anybody fucking talking to me about it. I wanted to forget about it. So that's another explanation for not coming pro. But I'm actually saying something respectful here and I don't twist it. What I'm saying is that I understand that this is the bottleneck

here, is that unless we can find some way that women are comfortable coming forward, then bosses are always in a position where they have to make a decision based on rumor without evidence, without a chance to defend themselves. No, you know, it's, I don't know, there's no easy answer. It's very easy

for you, apparently. It's not easy for me. But I don't know. More women in the system will make things better. In what system? In comedy. Well, I can't hire. Yeah, I'm great. Great. Tell me the women that kill, and I'll put them on.

Okay. I mean, it's absurd. Well, I challenged him on Twitter, because he also made the point that there's no transgenders that work here, to give me the name of a transgender. He did give me such a name. I forwarded it to you. I don't know if you want to look at it or not. Of course I'll look at it.

By the way, there's no... But it's also a question of like... Is there any transgender host on MSNBC? I mean, transgender, this is... Really? There's evidence? If I don't have a transgender comedian working here, that's evidence I discriminated against transgender? Not you.

Comedy as a whole. What percentage of the population is transgender? I have no idea. Well, you need to know these things before you make statements. But I know that Patty Harrison is a really good comic. I know that Riley Silverman is a really good comic. Let's start with Patty Harrison. Have they been on your TV show?

Have they? No. What's going on there? I know when certain female comics run, because you're not really that pro-female, because I know certain comics... Be nice, be nice, be nice. I know. You don't have to be nice.

That you completely attacked for no reason at all. I'm not going to say names. That person was doing you and TruTV a favor, and you completely attacked her like she was an open-miker. No, we just did my show. Yeah, but it's not a nice show. Just like the table's supposed to be not supposed to be nice.

Your show's not nice to every person, and some of those people are females. The rules of my show are very explicit, and I believe a majority of the winners of Talk Show the Game Show on TruTV coming back in February have been women. Okay. Keith is chomping at the bit, I can tell. I just think I'm never going to talk nice. But I just think that when you say the club don't have enough women.

I'm saying all of comedy doesn't have enough women. Yeah, all of comedy don't have enough women and all that. And plus you said what I didn't like is that you said that they knew what Louis was doing. I didn't know what Louis was doing. I didn't have a clue what Louis was doing. I opened up for Louis a lot. You know what I mean? Louis actually, when I was in the hospital, gave me money.

Don't remember, gave me money because I was sick. That's, you know, but, so, and when I started. Has a comic ever said to you that women aren't funny? Has a comic ever? Yeah, has a comic ever said to you that women aren't funny? Yes. Yes. And how did you respond to that? How do I respond to it? Yeah.

You're right. No, I'm kidding. That's the problem. This is the table, baby. This is the table. They know that funny. I know it's funny. He knows. I started out. He works with Wanda all the time.

No, no, no. I don't need no help with this. Okay, go ahead. Me and Wanda came here together. Yes. Me and Wanda Sykes came here together, right? All right. You know Wanda.

She's gay. She's a woman. She is my employer. Boom. That's one of my best friends. Wanda was in here before me. She was in this club. She told us, hey, can you get Keith in?

Before she was gay. And as he said, hell no. I don't want Keith in. But, you know, sometimes it's just when you really got to think more about what you're doing. And not just react. Because now everybody is so reactionary. Everybody's like, I got to say this because it's the time to say it. I'm a black man.

You don't think what I go through, you don't know that I see everything. Yeah. I'm a Jew. He's a, well, there's a lot of Jews. There's a lot of. Easy. I'm sorry. Keith smiled.

Keith, one of the things for me is just the fact that I'm 42. My career is where it is, and I had to fight my way up in a world where there really weren't that many visible gay comics on the national scene and where you go and how you go was like rough and a question and i just want to try to make a better scene so that people who are coming after me have to deal with less shit and can deal with learning the lessons that you have to learn, which are lessons like in front of a crowd. They should be learning those lessons and not having to be worried about who's going

to decide to pull his dick out at you if he takes you on the road with him. Now, Caswell, listen, men doing disgusting things to women is a pretty common problem throughout every profession. Yes. Louis took out his dick. But does that

that's not the argument that this is an endemic problem to comedy that Louis C.K. did something. I don't hear a lot of stories about male comics doing these things. That's what Laurie Kilmartin's editorial in the New York Times was about. I didn't read it. What did she say? It was really good. Joy Yelwes said. Go ahead.

I guess to his point is the endemic problem of all white male heterosexual lineups. That's just not necessary anymore because there are funny women. There are funny black people. There are funny gay people. We have funny Muslims, funny Indians. Our lineups are really diverse now more than ever before. They are now. I agree.

But that's not because, listen, I don't care about. But comedy in general isn't. I do not care about diversity. Because let me tell you why. I don't want to ever have to come to you and say, listen, I put you on because I needed a woman. That would be insulting to you. I will put you on or anybody on because they're funny. And I don't care what you are.

We have a lot of Muslim comics working. Now, I'm an outspoken Zionist, all right? We have lots of Muslim comics and Arabic comics. There's no problems here of any sort of any of the— there's no problems of that sort here at all. Well, I would like at least four more black comics. At least. All right.

Four more. Go ahead. Mike Fennoyer, go ahead. It was funny when we read this Friday night it was equal men and women

sitting at the table and one thing that you wrote and I'm going to read it the boys club is the only real structure that exists in stand up the patronage

and mentorship that good comics receive from more established male comics is how they get stage time representation and jobs.

I'm a 38-year-old straight white comic. When I was making my way, coming down here, I would go to do any show that unpaid, paid, have to bring people, whatever. I was questioning if I should even do this as a career. And Jessica Kearson, who works here regularly, I host here a couple nights a week. She leaves the crowd in stitches. She was the first person to ever give me paid work. She asked me to host her shows at Gotham. So a straight white guy getting work from a lesbian, these generalizations, just like there's not no gay guys at the table or there's no women at the table, that to me, like, how do you put something out there with such sweeping generalizations

that you can't in any way prove are true or false? You keep saying this community, this community. I mean, there are so many comics here that owe most of, if not all, their career to women. So you say we blame Jessica. Yeah, it's her fault I'm still doing stand-up, exactly. There we go, baby. There you go. Welcome to the table.

Notice who made the funny joke. The white guy. Sorry, sorry. That's just the Jewish guy. The Jewish guy. The Jewish guy. Things like that that just aren't at all true. That frustrates me to see when something just says,

the only thing is this. That's this new era of news. The only this is that. And it's not one person. Unless you spend years doing research and talk to every comic, then you can't make those generalizations. You just can't. Are you saying that the vast majority of higher-level comics

are not heterosexual men? What I'm stating is that you said a fact. You said the only X is Y. It was an opinion piece. I was speaking broadly. Well, then say in my opinion the only this is that. When you said there's never a gay at the table. It's an opinion piece. You can assume it's my opinion. But even in an

opinion piece, you can state facts and the facts should be accurate. You stated certain things as fact. I don't want to rehash it, but you said there's never a gay at the table. That to me is not at all an excuse to put out false stuff. That it's your opinion. I want another shot at him.

Give me one more shot. By the way, do you want to go on tonight? I would not feel comfortable doing that just after everything that's happened. Wrong answer. This is your shot, baby. This could be a turning

point in your career. This is the comedy seller. All right, yes, you come another night. The thing is, what I was saying was something in solidarity with other people who have been going through something, and one of the things I said is

I don't want to, for the offering of junior membership, like, play the game. And the thing is, I deeply respect your generosity as a host in doing that. And I came here because I really appreciate that you wanted to talk through this.

I'm afraid you don't want to go on because you don't want to give up the argument that I won't put you on. I'm saying, I've heard that you're funny. Listen, you don't know me at all, but I'm really like, let bygones be bygones guy. This could be the beginning of a good relationship between you and the club and you could perform here. Because we don't care that you're gay.

I am mostly just coming from a place of... I do. I don't remotely want this to look like a situation where I whined and then somebody was nice to me and then I stopped whining. It's up to you. Well, look, I understand what he's saying. This is a very emotionally charged podcast for Guy. I don't think that he's necessarily in the mood to be funny. I said he could come in the night.

God damn it. You're coming. You're coming. Go on. Well, now, hold on now. Hold on, Keith. Don't push the computer, Monty. Go ahead.

He's been. Go on if you're coming. Rightly or wrongly. You think your whining got you on the show? I had a Roka Bar Mitzvah in the Catskills to get on the show here. All right. That's what you moved everything around for that line? Go ahead.

Right now, women in comedy, are you kidding me? They're killing in comedy. You're saying women aren't doing well? I'm saying they're doing better than ever. Yes. Yes, but I am also saying that the reason that this is happening is because women are doing better in comedy and because there are more people

who are better positioned to be able to push back at a lot of these structures that have existed for a long time. You know, Wanda, your balls, she's part of the structure. We and her busted chops all through the 80s and 90s. Busting Chops is great and much appreciated. I'm talking about structural discrimination.

Right? Yes, I'm talking about systemic discrimination. Let me ask you guys. Which is different from just... Guy, guy. Yes. Okay, so let's assume that Noam, and I believe that he does, puts on who he thinks is best regardless of race, creed, color.

And let's just say that there just happens to be more guys right now that are doing the job. Do you think Noam should institute a program to bring in more women despite the fact that they may not be up to the challenge just to encourage women in comedy? That is a false structure. Behaving as though it just magically happens that men are 80% of comedy. But what should

Noam do about it, if anything? Can I do it? If you were me, what would you do to fight this problem? I would ask Joy Al. Can I say this? I'm not a woman. Can I say this? That's really the best you've got No no I think you

You just did one of the best things You could do Go on That's what you could do Which is very very kind I'm not doing it to be kind though And also creating a space Where you know that people can feel

Like basically sexually safe. I have created that space. Yeah. You think I need to do that? I think we could all work harder in comedy. I don't need to work any harder in my space for people to feel sexually safe. Joelle just put a wrist on my arm. I didn't like it.

I didn't feel safe. Rick, you got anything to say? Rick, do got anything to say? Rick, do you... Well, it just sounds like there's a... You seem to be saying there's an actual conspiracy to keep women and gays out of comedy. I don't think it's a conscious conspiracy. I think it is just... He's talking about what he regards as systemic racism.

I've been gay and at this table for 20 years. So... Do you think over the course of those 20 years you got the same opportunity as the heterosexual men at this table? Yes. I disagree. I disagree. How could you disagree? You've been here for 20 years.

You know that there's a whole documentary now. This week, there's a documentary in the IFC Film Festival. It's called Oh Rick. It's an hour and a half documentary about Rick Crome. And 80% of it is about the fact that he was the feature, he was the face of the comedy seller

for, I don't know, seven, eight years. More. More. And there's... And he was replaced by Louis Schaefer. Well, and he said

some interesting things about... Once again, he's saying systemically he feels as though it's something that's not going on. I mean, if you want to say that in the writers' rooms of sitcoms in the 80s, if there wasn't a certain homophobia, I would agree with you. There was. There was.

I don't. But I can't move. But not here. Not here. Never here. Never was here. Never here. You have to understand.

I'm sorry sorry i shouldn't go ahead go ahead uh starting out as a gay man in comedy i saw very very talented people for whom there was no space uh scott capero in san francisco famous in britain here in america there was never anything to be done with him because we were not ready to hear a gay man talk about his own life from his perspective on stage. And even now, we are still having to figure out that space. There still isn't a gay male nationally touring headliner. What? No. Okay, like who?

Wanda. No, gay male. Oh, gay male. Oh, what's his name? Is there one? I don't know. What's his nameanda. No, gay male. Oh, gay male. Oh, what's his name? Is there one? I don't know. What's his name exactly? No, no.

He was on a show. He's not out of the closet. You guys got to talk about it. You mean openly gay. Yes, I can certainly think of a couple of non-openly gay people. Which proves my point. And what do we do about that? Well, I think that's

a legitimate, maybe a legitimate concern, but I think the fault might be the public not accepting them. And that's certainly not the fault of Noam or the people in the industry. Mario Cantone used to, he could work anywhere he wants and he's out of the closet. Mario Cantone is a great comic. Does he tour wants, and he's out of the closet. I can name something.

Mario Cantone is a great comic. Does he tour clubs? Only because he doesn't want to. He doesn't leave the house. Okay, but there's the whole game of, oh, they didn't want to, or, oh, they just wanted to go be a writer. He used to work here all the time. He used to work here all the time.

Didn't he? Didn't he just come out? You guys need to stop outing people. I thought he did. Well? I thought he did. Well, I thought he did. I think he outed he came out to us, but not to not to Raw Dog. You don't want us to cover

anything up. No, no, no, no, no. I don't want to out anybody that doesn't want to be out. I thought it was wrong. No, no, I'll cut it out. We're not going to do that. I think, Guy, again, that might be an issue, but again, the problem is the American public,

not the comedy structure, the table, figurative table, or literal table, is not responsible for the fact that the American public may not want to see openly gay men on stage, if that in fact is the case. Well, they didn't want to see openly gay men on TV either. But whose responsibility is it to change their minds? Well, it's been the last 20 years.

It's been quite an evolution. And now gay characters on TV are completely acceptable and welcomed, as a matter of fact. And they don't have to be stupid cliches of what a gay should be. But that followed public acceptance more than dictated public acceptance. Right. Well, I think that through the arts, we do happen to lead the way that society progresses. Do you guys know a openly gay comic

that you think is another Eddie Murphy or another Richard Pryor? I think I'm hilarious. I don't know. Mateo Lane? Mateo lane is so funny joel kim booster is so funny so like this year uh the comedy central half hour solomon giorgio julio torres uh uh joel kim booster like it's not like and before that for all of time there had only been two jim david and gabe leadman i believe what about rick chrome i was right here the whole time exactly that's my fucking point it is like there are all these people who like the industry did not have space for and that was a problem and like we should want the

best of comedy to come through and i think that continuing to tell this story of like the it's always all about heterosexual men this is why I'm having trouble because I've like Larry Amorose used to perform here he was he was openly gay yes 25 years ago and the audience loved him I don't I don't remember

him having trouble astoundingly like maybe not every gay comic wants to traffic on the fact that they're gay maybe they just want to talk about you know politics or something like why do they have to be openly like why does it have to be centered by the fact that they're gay because they like it doesn't have to be centered on the fact that they're gay frequently i get up on stage and i don't talk about it at all and honestly it's easier now than it was 10 years ago because 10 years ago people were less comfortable with it and they heard this voice coming out of this body.

They were like, what the fuck's going on? Now people are comfortable enough to just hear me talk about politics or pop culture or whatever and understand that I'm a human being. But like people like Larry Ambrose weren't shuffled out of the system because they weren't good enough. They were shuffled out of the system because there was no space for them. No, no. No, that's wrong. That's wrong. He could be right. No, no, he had a lot of scandal.

Oh, he got in trouble too. I have no idea. I just know him from, he wrote for Joan Rivers when I did. He was writing for Arsenio Hall. Did you just tell me this? It was the Buttmaster audition. At the time that Suzanne Somers was promoting

the Thighmaster and he wrote a faux script for a sketch that was going to be called It was the butt master audition. At the time that Suzanne Somers was promoting the thigh master. And he wrote a faux script for a sketch that was going to be called butt master. As an excuse to bring men into audition for the butt master sketch to look at their butts. But there never was a sketch butt master. He was just bringing them in to look at their butts. And he got in trouble. That was a story. That was a sexual harassment story. That was a sexual harassment story. Funny guy. He was a bringing him in to look at their butts And he got in trouble That was a story That was a sexual harassment story That was a sexual harassment story

Funny guy, he was a funny dude He was very very funny In the microphone, what kind of professionals are you? He works for Mitch No Larry chose not to run around the circuit anymore He was in a writing thing He wrote for Joy.

He wrote for Barry Manilow for years. Barry Manilow for years. People say this all the time about people who stopped being gay men who stopped being stand-up comics. And frequently women who stopped being stand-up comics. Oh, they just preferred being writers. That's also possibly because those provided them with safer spaces. That's also possibly because people were less comfortable

hearing women or gay men talk about their own lives. My wife is Puerto Rican. And she took her mom to see John Leguizamo for their birthday. And my God, it's the funniest thing they've ever seen. For Hispanic women, Latino women, like, he really strikes a chord with them. But he's never going to be able to strike that chord with the majority of the United States of America.

And is it possible that if, what's that? No, John Leguizamo, in other words, his humor, what I'm saying is that is it possible that if gay men are 10% or 5% of the population, 10% of people gay and half of them are men, that if you want to have an act about that or that's a big part of, that it's hard to appeal to the other 95% who can't really identify with that. It's not that they're against it. I think that that is a very... It falls flat with them just like John Leguizamo's Spanish jokes fall flat with them. That is a very common attitude in this industry.

Is it possible that that's true? And it's not remotely true. Right. I agree with that. I perform... Like, gay men essentially don't come to comedy clubs because they had too many years of people just talking about how gross they were and they were like, we have other better things to do.

I believe that. That's a problem. Yeah. But it means that the vast majority of the time, I am performing for an audience that is entirely heterosexual. And I do fine. All right.

This business is tough for everybody, though. It's not an easy business. I've been doing this a long time. That is absolutely... It's tough. What?

You're supposed to say it's tougher for women. Listen, I live with a comic who, you know what it is? Oh, yeah, we're married. Here's the deal. You made a documentary about the fact that it's harder for women. I bought that documentary.

Thank you. But here's the thing in this business, what my wife and I do, we create our own projects. We don't let the industry control what we do. And that is, look, when I am talking to like a young gay comic, that is exactly the thing I say to them because I'm not going to say to them, oh, it's hard for you. No, I'm going to say, never think that there is an open door for you. You have to create your own doors. You have to fight as hard as you can. But I am also going to say to the comedy structure as a whole, hey, stop being terrible to people. Okay, we have to wrap it up.

I want to go around the table. Anybody has any comments they want to say? Well, obviously, I always have a comment. Joyelle, Keith, whoever wants to say. Sunday, you didn't get to say. Here's what I want to say. It's like, I think, first of all, you should go on stage, and that's it. He said, oh, you're on stage?

Go on stage. If you want to create, wait a minute, you say you want to create space for what you're doing and how you're doing and want to break the systemic stuff that's going on, get on stage. He doesn't want to, he doesn't want to. I can understand why he might not

want to tonight, but he will be back, rest assured. He has an open invitation. He has an open invitation. That's very kind of you. Not on Saturday. No, he doesn't. Not on the weekend. Rich.

He wants to make a good first impression, and tonight's not the night. I get that. You've got to have your head together for that. I get it. Rich, go ahead. He's got to stop. Why not the Comedy Store? Why the cellar?

Like, I mean, the comedy store where you're living in L.A., you see what goes on, which I think is a great club. And I think there's great comics there. I'm not there enough. Oh, stop kissing ass, man. No, no, no. Don't worry about the cellar. I'm not. The comedy store.

Listen, I already got turned down. Anyhow, I'm not out there enough. But why the cellar and not the store? Because of its close association with the show Louis, and because the mythology of the apex of the comedy industry is... What the fuck is this apex you're talking about? I don't know. Okay, who's talking?

Rick, you want to come in now? Rick, yeah, right. You're talking about the apex, and I'm like, what are you talking about? Say anything you want. I believe this is going to be a well-listened to episode. Well, it should be. It's a damn good episode. Say whatever you want. I believe this is going to be a well-listened-to episode. Well, it should be. It's a damn good episode. Say whatever you want to say about anything.

Society in general, our social evolution as gay men and gay women has just really started taking off in the last 20 years. So to complain that we were kept out of things is is uh it's it's silly to me i i the comedy seller has always been very welcoming of of me and of many other gay comics and uh we've we've never had any problem and and just in general unless you want to implement a quota system i don't see how you do anything other to advance uh the agenda of acceptance than to just get out there and be funny and gay at the same time and have people accept you. I don't understand what the big complaint is. Okay. You want to answer or am I going to let Adrian talk?

I mean, to the extent that, like, the thing I feel worse about is erasing the presence of gay comics like you. Nobody erased me. I'm saying I feel bad about that, and I apologize. But also, I think we need to look at the ways as a community that we have disproportionately made some people feel like there is hostility towards them or us. Well, listen, there of hostility towards gay when i when i was in law i was law school too when i was went to law school they they you know you're supposed to do like sign up for like a legal like pro bono work thing and the the uh issue that i signed up for was homosexual discrimination against gays because at that time like that seemed to me the worst discrimination that I had seen. Of course, I went to the first meeting,

and I realized it was really just a social club. So I didn't continue with it, because I'm so stupid, I didn't realize that was where all the gay guys were going to go to meet each other. But that was always my inclination, just so you know that. Okay, go ahead, Adrian.

Why are you going doing the black table? Adrian, do you want to say anything? Adrian, final thoughts. Black and Judah. I think I'm okay. You're okay, you sure? Well, I have a final thought. Unless Mody has a final thought.

Gay Mody? Is Mody gay? There'd be nothing wrong with saying that you're a little more educated, deceiving than that. Is Mody officially gay? There's nothing wrong with saying that you're a little more educated Is Modi officially gay? Maybe you think Noam is not as racist And sexist as you were Before you came here

I have a great deal of respect for Noam It is great getting to know him And all of you That said, the article wasn't about the cellar It was about the comedy culture On the whole Can you take out the part in the article that says that there's rarely women and rarely gays here

since it's not true? We changed it. They changed that. To what? They changed it to sometimes gays. To what does it say now? What? I think it says sometimes gays, sometimes women.

Essentially that. I don't know what this specific phrase is. I can't make you write what you're not going to write, but it should say the comedy seller is very, very welcoming of gays and women. However, the industry itself is not. That's what it should say. That's what you should change it to. That's the premise of it.

My final thought is as follows. My final thought is that Noam, I thought this was an excellent show. I don't know what the hell is being said and done on these other popular podcasts, but we deserve more listeners! We have a lot of listeners. And now, secondly, I would say to Noam, take a compliment for God's sakes. The reason he came after you

is because you're the big dog. Alright? So you get all agitated because people are coming after you. Get used to it, buddy! Get the fuck used to it. Because that's what people are on top. It's constantly coming at you with shit. Anybody worth their salt in this business has been called a racist, a rapist, a dog fucker. Sir, no.

Calm down. All right. I'm exaggerating. But suck one cock. Reel it in, David. I'm saying anybody that's anybody in this business has been talked shit about. So just be cool about it. We had a great discussion.

I think that you're agitated. Whether he changes the article or not, this club is still kicking ass, and people are still coming in the door, and nobody thinks you're a racist anyway. Louis C.K. said to me, actually, he said, listen, Andy Warhol said everybody's famous for 15 minutes. He said, I think the new version is everybody will be publicly hated for 15 minutes. And by the way, no one's been trying to push this in public for 15 minutes. He said, I think the new version is everybody will be publicly hated for 15 minutes. And by the way, no one's been trying to push this

in public hate for 15 minutes. Well, if you're lucky, you get it for longer. No one this. Again, it's all good, baby, man. It's all good. Our producer, Stephen Calabria, who wants to say something.

I'm curious to know how Guy's opinion of the comedy seller has changed since this began. But didn't Modi ask that question? Answer it again, because Steven didn't hear. I mean, my opinion of the Comedy Cellar has always been

respect for the excellence in comedy that happens here, and I do really appreciate and respect the fact that you guys had a real honest and open conversation, and I also really appreciate the fact that you guys had a real honest and open conversation. And I also really appreciate the fact that you guys normally do this on Wednesday and you did this on Tuesday because I had a scheduling conflict.

That was very, very kind of you guys. Well, were we nicer to you than you feared we would be when you came in here? Of course. Okay, that's good. I'll take that. And I thank you for a dynamite show. Because if you hadn't written that Focaccia article that nobody here agrees with, we wouldn't have had this great show

and that's what I got to say about that. All right. All right. Thank you very much, Guy. Thank you, everybody. I really appreciate everybody. I hope you got to say

everything that you want and spoke your piece. Okay, thank you. Good night, everybody. Bye.