The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Harvard and Anti Semitism

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

Shai-Li Ron, a student at Harvard as well as former spokesperson for the IDF, describes the current state of anti semitism on campus.

This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of the world-famous comedy seller coming at you on SiriusXM 99 Raw Dog. And wherever you get your podcasts, here with Norm Dorman, the owner of the comedy seller. And by the way, Norm's starting to tweet quite a bit, I've noticed. I'm going to stop. It's a bad habit. Okay, well, I enjoyed reading your tweets, but it'll be sad to see you go. Pearl Ashton Bryant is here. Do you tweet Peril?

No. She loves a good meme, though. I'm an Instagram owner. Peril literally sees the world through a meme. Well, that's probably not a good way to see the world. People say, where'd you get that from? Did you see that? And then she'll send me a meme.

I say, you have to back that up. She'll send me a meme. Instagram is, generally speaking, you have to back that up. She'll send me a meme. Instagram is generally speaking a little friendlier, but unless you're talking about Israel-Palestine and then it becomes everybody's acrimonious as Twitter.

And you know when she knows it's a reliable meme? No. When it rhymes. We are here with Periel's niece, Shiley, what's your last name? Ron. Shiley Ron.

Give her the mic, Periel. She doesn't look a whole lot like Periel. It's a long story. So she's not your niece? She is my niece. I worked out. We can get into the history of it later. And she is Israeli, as is most of Periel's family.

And Periel's husband, too. Periel recently remarked on Instagram. Should I divulge in front of your niece? Of course, it's on Instagram. Well, she said there's nothing... You haven't lived until you've fucked an Israeli soldier or something? Jesus Christ, Dan! I asked you if I could say it! My son

is here. Oh, sorry. Jesus Christ. I just said, can I say it? I was thinking more about Shaili than your son. Maybe the Palestinians are right. Okay, the reason why I've called us here today. You did post it on Instagram. What's the matter with you?

There aren't 10 years old looking at my feed on Instagram. Why would you say that? All right, go ahead. I would answer if Manny weren't in the room. Noam has told us that he lets Manny pretty much watch what he wants. Well, that's his business though I don't need to be involved in that nonsense Okay so I said to Noam I have a proposition but I really only want to do it if you're actually interested

And most of the things that I ask Noam If he's interested that come from me He generally says no Continue But Shiley was coming here and she's a student at Harvard and she was also a spokesperson in the IDF. And I thought that she's been she's been doing a lot of work at Harvard and she has a really important and I think interesting perspective about what's going on right now. And she was just interviewed by about all the anti-Semitism, although she didn't let them

use her name. So I'm sorry to out you. Thanks. She's like she's like a she's like a walking. We're all collateral damage here. Walking target. Yeah, she's unbelievable. Well, I mean, it doesn't matter now. I mean, what are they going to do? Go put her name back in the article? I don't think it's they who did want to use her name. She's the one who wants to keep her name private. Yeah, I know. That's what I just said.

So now people will read the article and they'll know who said it. It's fine. She's got a pretty public persona there anyway. Well, why don't you ask her some questions? Why don't you do it, Perry Ellison, so you know better what it is to ask her because you're aware of her. She's interviewed about the current spate of anti-Semitism

at Harvard. Well, I mean, there's rampant and I don't know if you've been following the news lately. But before we do that, just tell us a little bit about yourself. You're how old? I'm 25. Put the mic closer to you. And you're an undergraduate there? I'm 25. Put the mic closer to you. 25 and you're an undergraduate there? I'm an undergrad, yeah.

And what are you studying? I'm studying economics and psychology. Economics and psychology. Yeah. And what's your general political point of view on economics? Are you like a freedman type or left wing? I would say on economics, I lean a little bit more left.

More left. Yeah. So you're like anti-capitalist or? No, definitely not. I believe in the free market. I just think that there are some market inefficiencies that governments need to get involved and solve. And one of our regular guests here

has been Tyler Cowen, the economist. You know Tyler Cowen, the economist? You don't know't know him so he's like uh i think a pretty libertarian economist all right so so you're not a person of the right no politically you generally lean left also yeah center left center left but before all the stuff with israel happened were you sympathetic to like the social justice movement the the words of violence movement, the gender, all the stuff that people call woke or progressive? Would you say you were part of that progressive? So there's certain things that I, of course, was a part of and certain things that I wasn't. I'm very much for abortion, for example.

I believe that women should have rights and I'm very much pro that. So you're a radical. These days I'm a radical. It's crazy. No, but okay, women should have rights. But I mean, in terms of the things like that... I'm liberal, yes.

That people shouldn't have... That speech shouldn't be so free, that people have the right to complain about what other people say, that people should be fired for things that they've said, all the things, you know, the things that everybody's been arguing about basically since like 2016?

I think I would place myself, I'm not American, so for me, these debates are less critical, but I would say that I do believe in free speech, but I do think that there has to be like limitations. For example, if someone says something that's violent, if someone says something that's racist, and I know it's not very normal these days, but if someone says that something that is anti-Semitic, I think it should all like I'm very much against that being free speech.

And do you have any thought to like how to how to determine whether something is racist how to determine where something is anti-semitic i think it's a very complicated question with a very which has some simple aspects to it why is it complicated because when something is said the person who says it might have a different intention from what the person that from what other people hear but if someone is saying something that is either a call for violence de facto like what's happening on the ground like to incite violence inciting violence that's that's always that's a red line or if someone's saying something like the jews control the media which are things that have been said on harvard like anonymous

chats then i think yeah, yeah, that's something that's a little bit more problematic. So if I have a chat and I get caught saying, listen, I think the Jews are really, they have a lot of influence in the media, something that implies the Jews control the media, what would you do to a person like that? You would have them expelled, fired?

No, I think the person needs to have a conversation and we need to chat with this person and say listen some of the statements you're making make other people around you feel uncomfortable and it gets much worse like people have said if you support israel you are 100 a villain and death to jews like these things are crazy people that are calling from the river to the sea, they're saying, we want Jews to be eradicated from Israel. These are very clear things that are being said. It's not a gray line. They're anti-Semitic and clear. So what I think should be done is I think everyone that calls for these things needs to have a conversation with their resident dean, for example, and they need to have an understanding of, wait a second for these things needs to have a conversation with their resident dean, for example.

And they need to have an understanding of, wait a second, these things make some students uncomfortable. When you're yelling intifada on the street, there are students here who have family members who have experienced suicide bombing. So that's the connotation of intifada. If someone would yell intifada down the street in Israel, many people would people would you know perhaps go and hide because it's not a normal thing to yell so i think yeah i think these things need to be considered very carefully and i think students that endorse these this types of language need need to have a conversation with with like with some member of the harvard community because i don't know if I want to study in those classrooms with students that want me dead and have said so clearly.

So then the last question before then we'll get to the, to the, the heart of the matter. Do you ever stop to think that if everybody just kept it to themselves because they knew they get expelled. So, so everybody just hides the way they feel. That we wouldn't know how people feel and that there's some benefit in knowing. Yeah, I can see the benefit in knowing how people feel. But would you want, let's just give a different example.

Would you, let's say there's a person next to you that really wants you, like, wants to chop off your head right now. He's sitting on the subway and all he's thinking about is that he wants to chop off your head. Would you want to know that? Like, do you think that should be, like, like, I think in my opinion, that information, like, if this is only their thoughts it should be kept quiet because if they're calling for very violent things then why should they why should they be allowed to say that because the next step from making just think about it psychologically i'm not an expert on this but someone says something if they're saying it if they're writing it then what's stopping them from doing it like the moment you make a thought public and we we all have crazy thoughts, the moment, not those types of thoughts, like I don't think about killing

people, but people have different difficult thoughts. If someone, the moment you make it public, you put it in the sphere of what's possible to the world. You make it known to the world. And then what it's already known to the world, what's stopping you from like acting on it? That's like my thought. The problem is that, for instance, in Israel, you have these right wing settler types who are saying similar things now. At least I read about it in Horace from time to time about wanting to. This is our chance. We're going to get all the Palestinians out. We're going to take the entire land back. Basically, a river to the sea mirror image there.

And I hate that they say that. I'm pretty sure you hate it too. But it never occurred to me they don't have a right to say it. That's what they advocate, you know? What are you going to do? Anyway, all right. So what, is he making noise?

It's okay. Because he's going to frigging get it. He's fine. Isn't it different, though, to be on a college campus and say those kinds of things and so that other students actually feel unsafe? Oh, Perry. No, I'm. The problem is that we've lived now for five years or longer of people using that phrase, I feel unsafe, to shut down every garden variety opinion that they disagreed with. basically Ted didn't want to broadcast his Ted talk

because people claimed it made them feel unsafe. And this is the same thing? Yes, it's the same thing. Words are words. As she said, there's a limit for incitement to violence, which is a legal standard that's recognized in the law. And other than that, in the law, now Harvard can have its own rules. In the law, there are no rules about hate speech.

And as we've seen, it becomes impossible to figure out. We saw during COVID where people were saying that they thought the COVID started in China or from a started in China or, or the government, you know, from a lab in China and people in New York times are saying, this is racist. And Twitter was not allowing people to write it.

And I mean, there's also the, anyway, I don't want to get sucked into that whole speech, but you're entitled to these opinions, of course. And you're not alone in these opinions. I,

I find the whole unsafe thing to be a a big open loophole for people to use if you tell people there's a feeling unsafe exception you're going to guarantee yourself that people are going to start characterizing things they don't like is making them feel unsafe. But there's a difference here. Go ahead. And I think the difference is that you can have political opinions that are different. But I think when you're calling for an intifada,

and the literal translation is like to shake off, to get rid of. So those intifadas have been where there was anything from uprisings, anything from rock throwing and where people, babies and civilians murdered left and right over the course of, I don't know how long it was, a year or so, a year and a half, maybe longer. So that was, so that's what the Intifada is. And Intifada is really, in my opinion, responsible for, it's the inflection point where Israeli politics turned to the right and has stayed to the right. Israel was pretty left wing, pretty optimistic about a peace process, uh, was pretty much behind, um, Barack and, and, uh, and the Clinton process and all that and Oslo. And then with the second

intifada, you really saw the right wing in Israel take over and hasn't relinquished really control since then. So this was the psychological change. So anyway, yeah, if people call for an Intifada, that could be... When they're saying bring the Intifada here. One solution, Intifada revolution. All right. Okay, so let's leave aside the argument about free speech i don't think i yeah i think i think another thing that's really hard is beyond the free speech just

the feeling that people don't want to look you in the eyes as an israeli and don't want to have a conversation and i think that's kind of where it crosses the line for me where i feel like we've let this narrative go too far like we've let this narrative go too far. Like we've let this narrative stop us from having really productive, interesting conversations that are important because their assumption is that I as an Israeli who served in the IDF am not in favor of Palestinian self-determination, which I am.

I am very much in favor of Palestinian self-determination, but they don't even take the time to have this one-on-one to ask me these questions to see that maybe our political opinions are much closer than in certain areas than they thought. And that's what's scary to me, that people are just like blocking. So tell us, so tell us what is going on at Harvard. Now you have some, you have some posts that we can look at. Mm-hmm. You want to? Yeah.

But just tell us what is like, and what's changed? You didn't, you know, what? Is this your post? No, this is,

I don't use this app. It's called SideChat. It's an anonymous app for Harvard students. So to be on the app, you have to be a registered student. So you have to use your Harvard email. And students have put some really terrible things on there. Let me read it because not everybody sees the video. It says, Harvard, I've never been more scared to be a Jew.

Heard people talk in the dining hall saying, get rid of them all. Jews never did anything good for the world. And they're posting this. Basically basically all students can read this so anyone who's a harvard student can read this yeah um and it's it's anonymous it's anonymous so you get a lot of things on there yeah you can what else so here you have a beheaded baby, just like a baby. Wait, but is this somebody? Oh, it says number one. It's like it's supporting the beheaded baby? So essentially the numbers are the net added.

So you can press up or press down. So in this case, you could have, let's say, three people press up and two people press down, so you have a net one. That's what it shows. It's like the plus, they do that with polls. Biden is plus five, they take his negative mindset. So it was a close call here, but you don't know how many people... I see a baby in a shirt, but it's a beheaded

baby. It's a beheaded baby. So the idea is like somebody says, let's take a poll on how you feel about beheaded babies, and some people were for it and some people were against it. Yeah. This is unbelievable. Continue. What's next?

So this is after we did the table. We did like a table thing to commemorate the hostages, Shabbat table. With empty chairs. Yeah. You can go to the next one. Is there anything I should read there? No, it's okay.

We can continue. This one says, The fact Israel took pride in the bombing of the hospital and then saw the attention it's receiving so they quickly diverted to blaming the PLO or Hamas is crazy. For a government with so much wealth, the propaganda is so jank. What's jank? That must be a new term that the kids are using.

It's like garbage. Junk. And then it says, rest in peace to all the martyrs of Palestine. There's some pretty bad ones. I would imagine those martyrs include anybody that was killed perpetrating the October 7th acts. Yeah.

So I have to say, I am not the person who screenshotted these because I'm not on the app. So these were sent to me. There's a few more. Like, a lot of them saying that they've, like, here you see someone saying that if you're still pro-Israel, you're a villain and need to stay away from me. Self-defense, my guy Israel is hunting a rabbit with a cannon.

Okay, these are more legitimate things to say. There's some really bad ones that I've chosen not to share here because I think we're also, yeah, there's also some other things that are going on in terms of through the Harvard administration that we're talking to them. Can I ask where you personally draw the line between criticism of Israel, even if it's unfair criticism, and what you would regard as anti-Semitism? So if someone says get them all, that's clear anti-Semitism, for example. Or gotta get them all.

If someone says let them cook, which was one of them, I think that's clear anti-Semitism. You say there's some things that are worse, but I can't make you talk about them. But obviously the things that are worst are the things that make the case most. Yeah. I just said, let them cook. For example,

was a really difficult one. This was posted on the Sunday. So not the Saturday, the day after, while they were still fighting going on someone posting, let them cook. Someone posting, what did you think decolonization looked like?

Vibes, essays, papers, losers. So that's the near, um someone posting what did you think decolonization looked like vibes essays papers losers so that's the near unbelievable that can i read this one without the yeah y'all say the rhyme with me harvard hillel is burning in hell harvard hillel is burning in hell they got funded by epstein as well and support genocide that they will tell. Hillel being the campus Jewish. That rhyme really makes it hard for you, right, Peril? So, like, I'm, like, I'm sharing this, and I think, like, about what it takes.

Like, I think how difficult it is for me as a student who is at the core i believe in like core human values so when i think when i hear about palestinians dying i mourn them too like i'm not i don't celebrate the death of Palestinians. I don't. I think it's terrible. And when there are students here who are celebrating, and when I say celebrating, they are dancing and celebrating with smiles. The death of Jews, it hurts. Absolutely.

I had had the thought, and then I think my son Manny wants to ask a question, but that one of the reasons I am comfortable saying that this is anti-Semitism rather than deep political disagreement with Israel is related to what you just said, which is that in any conversation with civilized people, even right wing Israeli, right? I mean, you know Israelis better than I do, but I know them pretty well, that if you're having a conversation with civilized people, civilized Israelis,

not, I mean, we have our own civilized as well, but not, when it comes to the subject of Palestinian, innocent Palestinians dying, every decent person knows to say, look, I understand it's terrible that they're dying, but, and then some people might say, but we have no choice, or they do, you know, they'll explain why they feel, but no one will ever think that it's okay, and they understand they look like a monster if they were to say, ah, good, I'm glad they're dying. And what we're seeing here is that people don't even feel

the social pressure for that speed bump to say, listen, of course it's terrible to see these Jewish babies die, but you have to understand how the Palestinians feel. They don't even say that. They asked this woman, Raina Workman on TV, like, do you feel bad for the Jewish children?

And then she wouldn't say yes. And you see that in this as well. And again, so they've totally dehumanized. That's really what it is. I mean, this is all bigotry. It's really,

it's a cliche, but it's true. I mean, how did the Nazis do it? The Nazis had to do it by dehumanizing the Jews. Exactly. And this is actual dehumanization, where people don't feel the need either internally or even to look not like a monster in mixed company,

just to be polite, even if you don't mean it, just to act like it. They don't even feel the need to act like it in front of others to say, well, good for them. I don't care. Praise to the martyrs. Let's put up a picture of the paragliders. So how is that?

It has to be antisemitism. I've never heard that before in any war ever. I mean, it could be that if you go back to World-Semitism. I've never heard that before in any war ever. I mean, it could be that if you go back to World War II, people might've been celebrating. You know, I don't know. Yes.

Probably, probably the attitude about the Japanese in World War II was at that point. Actually, I don't know that. I mean, we know the movie Oppenheimer that there was considerable worry about civilian lives dying among some people, but I'm sure there was such hatred at that point that they had dehumanized the Japanese.

They say things like there is no such thing as civilian Israelis. That's what was posted after we did the table. And we had spoken publicly about this being for human lives. There's Thai people that are held hostage. There's Germans, there's Americans that are held hostage. And they write, there is no such thing.

I think they're referring to the universal, because everybody in Israel has to be in the army. So I guess that's what they mean by it. What does that have to do with a baby? I assume that that's what they're talking about. I guess that's what they mean by it. What does that have to do with a baby? I'm just saying, I assume that that's what they're talking about. Exactly, that's what they're talking about. That is what they're talking about. Manny has a question.

Manny, come over here. Don't hit the, don't hit the, don't hit the, come here. Don't hit the tripod. Come on, come on. There's an episode of The Odd Couple where he takes his son on the photo shoot and he gives him, Edna, don't hit the tripod. She hits the tripod. Come sit down. So this is my son Manny. Now listen,

my son Manny is a loose cannon. I never know what he's going to say. And anyway, so he's a 10-year-old boy. But he's 10 years old, but not any normal 10 years old. He's studying algebra. He's teaching himself. He's teaching me algebra. That's still pretty good for 10 years old.

You need it, Perry. So, I don't know. Do you actually have a question you want to ask? I have a story I want to tell. Okay, go ahead. Is it a long story? We don't have time for a long story. No, it's pretty short.

Okay, go ahead. In middle school, I have a friend, and me and him were having a conversation about what's going on in Israel. It was close to, it was like two weeks after October 7th. And he was talking about that Israel shouldn't attack Hamas because there's going to be a lot of civilian damage in Palestine, which is, and of course there will be, but if they don't attack Hamas, then Hamas is just going to attack them again over and over until there is no

more. That's what you wanted to say? Yeah, it's a short story. It's a short story, yeah. Alright, do you have any questions? Have you felt in school anything about being Jewish

or anything like that? No, we just kind of ignore it. You kind of ignore it. Good. Shali, is this coming from mostly Muslim students? Mostly just all different types of students? Where is this coming from primarily? So it's coming from Muslim students, from other students that believe very much

in this social justice group, a lot of queer students. That's amazing, right? I don't mean to, but the idea that everybody knows is that the queer students are taking up the cause of the corner of the earth, which still lynches queer people. And that there are so many queer people from Gaza who are living under asylum in Israel.

Yeah, that it boggles the mind. I mean, what does it bring out? It brings out, first of all, the power of ideology. You know, ideology is, I guess it's like religion, I don't know, but it really is behind so many of the atrocities of the world. And this intersectional ideology, that's really what it is, that a queer person is the ally of, quote unquote, the brown people and the anti-colonialists. And this trumps even a kind of common sense way, but they, how could they be the good

guys if they would kill you because you're queer? It is in its own way an analog to how could they round up the Jews and put them in camps? These were their neighbors. This is the blinding of ideology. For all these reasons, I'm not... I'm pained that you have to go through it, that anybody has to go through it. I'm pleased, and I think it was necessary, that this rock has been lifted and that we're actually seeing what obviously has been there for quite a long time.

And many, many people, many people I argued with on this podcast, Perriella had been denying that what was going on in the progressive world was extreme hate and open to anti-Semitism. I had been saying for a long time that I thought that progressivism had become really a way where hateful people had dressed up their hate as righteousness. And that's really the vibe I was getting all the time that if they could, because they were hungry to find somebody who did something wrong. And then once they had him, they wanted him fired. They want, it didn't matter if they apologize.

Didn't matter if they didn't mean it. It didn't. And they wanted to ruin them and, and spit on them. And I said, this is a dark human instinct that's coming out. This is not the instinct for brotherly love that they pretend it is. It's actually the opposite. And now we're really seeing it in a way that I think makes it become indisputable,

where this ideology is now cheering babies, being dismembered. I mean, there's one story. This woman, this 90-year-old woman who saw her grand... I can't even talk about it. Her granddaughter raped in front of her. And, you know, and then... Did you see the video of it?

She said, I wanted to stop playing in my head. I wanted to stop playing in my head. I wanted to stop playing in my head this woman. This is how she has to end her life. That people are cheering this. Yeah, they are. It shows what this movement has been about. What do you think? I saw a video today.

Somebody was tearing down the posters of the hostages. This was in New Jersey. It was in Montclair, New Jersey. And somebody came over with a camera and said, what are you doing? What are you doing? And they're like, please don't film me. Please don't film me.

Well, you were tearing down those posters. Why? Basically exposing for the world to see these two young ladies that were tearing down a poster in New Jersey. I'm for that. You're for that? You're not? Well, look, I have no sympathy for these young women, but do you think that...

If I saw, if you were committing, if somebody was beating up somebody on the street, and somebody filmed them, and I said, yeah, good, that's a criminal. But do you think to set loose a potential mob against people that can't be controlled? Against people tearing down the posters? Against people tearing down the posters. That the punishment might ultimately be excessive. I mean, if somebody were to kill somebody, throw it on the posters, I would say that person who killed them should go to jail. I mean, it's not an excuse to. We have we have legal rules about what can be answered with what in terms of violence, but the idea that we would be worried to respect the identity or the privacy of the person, you know, tearing down the posters. Well, again, this is typical, like if, if, in, on what planet, we had situations where, I don't know, the most innocuous insult of a black person was treated as a national issue.

A national issue. But you were against that, I think. You were against. No, but I'm saying that these same people are now worried about somebody who's tearing down pictures of posters. You're not allowed to tear the posters down. I'm presuming they're up in a place where they're allowed to be up. And we know why you're tearing it down. And yeah, I have no problem with that being publicized.

At least I don't think I do. Yeah, go ahead, Manny. What were the posters about? No, these are posters of some of the people that were taken hostage in Gaza. They're posted a lot in New York City, but outside of New York as well. And they say they're not real. Yeah, I mean, it's an act of aggression. I mean, it's certainly...

I understand, but I just was wondering whether there's potential danger in calling forth the mob, as it were, against people that do this sort of thing. As much as I have no sympathy for people that do this sort of thing. I understand that. I don't think that it's calling forth a mob. I think it's exposing these people for what they are. There was a woman on the Upper West Side, which is like the most Jewish neighborhood in New York, probably, who was like a nanny. And who wants your nanny to be like ripping down posters of kidnapped babies? I mean, that's sick, right? These people are doing this in broad daylight.

They have no fear, no shame. They're proud of themselves. It's kind of crazy because people don't tear down posters of missing cats. It's true. And missing dogs. I mean, you're crazy. It is different in the sense that, to be fair,

not because I'm sympathetic to them, but it's an obvious point that when you have a poster of a missing cat you're hoping that somebody will see your cat and return it the poster of a missing children in New York is not about maybe you might see this child it's about

it's a political flyer in some way and maybe you could say it's a it's a uh unfair not unfair but it's a kind of political flyer which if it was reversed i could see why it got into somebody's skin because it's it's playing at the heartstrings in a way which is kind of daring you to disagree with it. So I don't think it's like a cat poster, but it is, it is, it is, it is. It's also not a poster,

which means you don't think the Palestinians have rights. It's not a poster, which means you don't think that you'd like to see an end to the occupation or you're against a two-state solution. It's a poster that is calling attention to mass murder. That's what it is. It's not only mass murder. It's more than that.

It's a poster that's calling for... There's families here. Perry works with them. Families that have members that are missing. It's saying to them look this these people are missing from my house yeah and i think i think that there's a difference between that and and and like the cough like it's not there's something very human about it that is not tackling any other group it's not an attack on anyone.

How would you feel if you saw a poster of a dead Palestinian baby under a pile of rubble and the caption said, stop the genocide? You know what? I would not tear it down. No, I wouldn't think you would. But that is Dan's... I think Dan just made a nice illustration there of what I was trying to allude to. They're seeing it as this kind of like of a way of using this kind of horrible image to further your political point.

But it's not a horrible image. It's an image. It's actually an image of a person living their lives. Heartbreaking image. All right. So listen, I'm not started saying, I think they should be exposed about defending it. I'm just trying to get to the essence of truth about what it is and how, how somebody might see it. Um, but it's just, it's incredibly cruel and mean, uh, whatever,

whatever. That's the world we're living in. So what are you going to do? Are you going to stay at Harvard? I have one more year until I graduate. I did have a moment where I was like, I think my degree just lost all its value. Well, I certainly don't think that's the case. Not all, but I think in the Israeli eye, it was definitely. How many non-Jewish students are rallying to your side of this? A few. We do lead a truck to Israel where we bring 100 students every year, non-Jewish students.

And they have definitely been supportive. But the majority of students are either silent or pro-Palestinian, like very loud. And is there a distinction that they're making between being pro-Palestinian and being pro-Hamas? So I think it's difficult because I speak with, I argue with people online all the time, like telling them to take down anti-Semitic things just because I don't want to see it and I don't want anyone else to get into their heads. So I always begin the conversation by saying, just clarify, can you please text me that you are not supporting Hamas? I need to make sure.

And you get varying answers. The majority at some point would tell you, no, of answers. The majority, at some point, would tell you, no, of course I don't support terrorism. Someone was like, I don't support terrorism on either side. But, like... This is what Obama... I'm so over Barack Obama. I hope you are, too, finally, Perrielle.

That he said that, you know, of course it's wrong what Hamas did, but it's also true. And then as soon as he said, but it's also true, he's already lost me because there's a time and place for it's also true. And it's not now. At least it wasn't when he said it. He says it's also true that the occupation is, and he used the word, unbearable. Now, unbearable has a meaning.

It means you couldn't bear it. So it sounds like he's saying, well, what does somebody do when it's not bearable? This is what they do. It's like I said, I joked on Twitter, I said, honey, there's no excuse for the fact I cheated on you. But it's also true that living with you is unbearable. So obviously you are making an excuse for the fact that you cheated, because if there's no excuse, and that's the end of it. Listen, there's no excuse for that. But what about the occupation? Obama could say, well, I have a lot of things to say about the occupation, but now is really not the time to discuss it because we're talking about a mass murder here.

So let's not muddy the waters by talking about the occupation. And by the way, there's not even any indication that Hamas has any concern about the occupation. Hamas wants the eradication of the Jews and not just necessarily in Israel. Right, that was my next question. Are all of these students aware of the fact that Hamas is trying to implement Sharia law, that Hamas...

Are they trying to implement Sharia law? I mean, yes. Well, how come they don't have Sharia law? They're in charge of their own state there, or their own territory. That I can't answer, but that's what they want. They want to rule the West also. They don't want to just rule. They don't want to just eradicate Israel.

They want to implement their charter all over the world. Is that from my understanding? I'm not sure. But I know if they wanted Sharia law, they could have it. I believe they could have it. They're in charge. Let's Sharia law. All I know is that the terror that they imposed on Israel on October 7th

is something that they have gone on television over and over again saying they're going to continue doing this. And their goal is to take over the West as well. I mean, we saw it with September 11th. I think some people have said that. Some imams have said that, yes. So my question is... I don't know if Hamas, that's their... Because you see, you know, there was one guy who was going,

I think it was around Washington square park, asking people to sign his bill to support, um, Hamas. And people were so eager to sign it. And he's like, okay, I just have to read like a couple of caveats here.

Um, and then he was like, so gay people get killed. Right. And, and then the, and then the people signing were like, Oh,

Oh, wait a second. Um, women have no rights. Oh, Oh, wait a second. Women have no rights. Oh, wait a second. And so it seems like there's so much ignorance that this is like a rallying call that people are getting behind. And without any knowledge, I mean, there's no distinction made is what I'm saying. I think it's important.

When I hear people in thousands of people, it's not like five or so, it's thousands of people yelling from the river to the sea, like Palestine will be free. They're not, what kind of, this is a Hamas slogan, by the way. What are they calling for? Well, I think that's a good.

Does it rhyme in the original Arabic? That's a good point. That's an interesting point. I guess it's... Yeah, I don't know. But I think we should discuss that a little bit because that's important because Rashida Tlaib, did she not...

She tweeted or is she... She says it's aspirational. But this brings us back in a circle to we're talking about before. So since when did progressive people ever forgive a harsh statement which implies the murder of a group because it's aspirational? They would normally say, oh, that that makes me feel unsafe. Oh, you shouldn't do that. It made them feel unsafe. Oh, you shouldn't do that. It made them feel unsafe. Now we've had, we've had buildings named, uh, buildings in, in Princeton or whatever renamed because the last name of the guy who had been Lynch or something ridiculous like that, as if people, you know, Princeton students can't

understand that there's a name Lynch, which is a homonym to the name, to the word Lynch. But you could probably handle it. I can handle if a guy's last name was Oven. We're so fragile, so fragile that we have to change the name of buildings. But you have to tolerate our aspirational slogan. You could change the slogan, Saib, now that you realize what it sounds and you acknowledge

that if it's taken literally, that's what it means, and you've been telling us for years about the importance of feeling safe and the importance of blah, blah, blah. You come up with another slogan, right? You can say anything is aspirational. It's not aspirational. We know it's not aspiration. It's radical. And I think I mean, I'm sure there's some people that in their in their delusion think it's a call for a a democratic state in in in the in the region where everybody is equal. I can't deny that some people might think that when they're saying that slogan. I think what they're saying is Palestine will be free,

and they miss the last two words of Jews. That's what they are not saying out loud. But that's the vision. But I do think that, in fairness, that some people use that phrase in their minds or envisioning a state where everybody is— You always do that. Yeah, of course, some people might. I'm just— But that's not the general— I don't know. What do I always do that. Yeah, of course, some people might. I'm just... But that's not the general...

I don't know, what do I always do? I'm saying that... I'm saying that to elevate the fact that there is something of everything. Yes, there are some people out there who don't know any better. I get it. But the people...

I'm just making that point. Yeah. I think the main issue... Because I don't think that everybody's calling for the death of every Jew in Israel that makes that statement. But most of them are. But just like everybody that flies a Confederate flag might not mean let's put black people back in chains. But you have to be sensitive to the fact that people react to it in a certain way.

But that's also what it actually means. I think what is interesting is that when it's accompanied by posts on social media saying things like they can either get got or leave, that kind of tells you what the agenda is. But even if it's like, I think the main issue is that they're calling for something that is more radical than what the Palestinian Authority is calling for, which is a two-state solution. They're aligning themselves, if we had a scale of politics with Hamas. Is the Palestinian Authority calling for a two-state solution? Well, it was at that state. Not now, but it was at that state.

And how come nobody cares that the Jews were expelled from every single country from Iran to Iraq to Lebanon? How come nobody ever mentions that? Most people don't know that. And the Jews don't care either. They're happy to be

out of those countries. Also, literally... Yes, careful. Everybody has pushed the Jews out over the course of thousands of years. I got my Hebrew school money.

It's worth it. It's such a common occurrence that no one actually takes mine to something that common. I think the main issue is the indigenous narrative. Like, it's anti-Semitic to claim that Jews are not indigenous to the land of Israel. It's a lie. It's a lie and it's anti-Semitic. It does not rhyme in Arabic

according to Al Jazeera from the river to the sea. So, alright. The bottom line is there's rampant anti-Semitism going on on all of these college campuses. We've seen it with Cornell. We've seen it with Columbia.

We've seen it. Well, I'm not giving a cent more to UPenn. Not that I ever gave anyway. But my sister, who does give, is not giving. It's basically every university. And there should be real ramifications and consequences for, I mean,

students should not feel unsafe to be Jewish. That's the bottom line. And that's what's going on. It's a terrible time. And I'm very pessimistic about it. But we'll see what happens. I...

I feel like the Jewish community, for a long time now, has let us down by shying away from even teaching its own children the basics of all this. And by cozying up now, I'm not a partisan person. I don't really, I'm not, I'm not a Republican, but cozying up with democratic politics and sweeping all this under the rug for a long time.

And now, now they're, they're getting their comeuppance. I just want to make the point, and this is a key point that the kids at Harvard don't know, that it wasn't that long ago in my lifetime when the Israeli government tried with all its might to make a deal for the two-state solution with barack and then again with olmert legitimate real you could give these prime minister sodium pentothal and you would have found out that they were very very much trying to give the the palestinians a fair solution in good faith. And Bill Clinton said as much, who was there. Dennis Ross said as much. They all said as much.

And then, as I said before, Israel was answered with the second intifada, which was murder. So this is the defining incident of the current history of Israel. It's not, and Hamas is not moved by the fact that Israel wanted to give back all this, wanted a two-state solution. At the time Israel wanted it, Hamas stood for, we don't want it, we want it all. We don't care about a two-state solution. At the time Israel wanted it, Hamas stood for, we don't want it, we want it all. We don't care about a two-state solution. And this is the group that the left now is throwing in with. But the fact is that Jews themselves didn't know these facts. The Jews themselves were growing up around liberals and hearing people talk badly about Israel.

And they kind of nodded, yeah, that is terrible. They didn't know a goddamn thing about it. Jews themselves don't even know how it is that the territory became occupied. We asked them on the show, do you know how it is? I don't know. Didn't we ask Randall about it?

Yeah, we expect him not to know. No, but I ask almost every Jew I meet, do you know how it is the territories become occupied? The most basic... Did you know that Jordan attacked? Oh, Israel was attacked? Yeah, they were attacked and they beat the army back and then they kept this land for security until such time.

Oh, that's different. I thought Israel conquered the land. You know, this is the most fundamental fact that changes the whole thing in your brain, where, oh, I thought you guys were the aggressor. You mean you were the victim, and now they just want the land back again? And you have the nerve to say,

well, we want some guarantees of security because this is not the first time and not the second time you attacked us? Oh, well, that doesn't sound so unreasonable. But Jews themselves can't even make that argument. And it's such a stupid argument. I mean, it's such a simple argument. A child can understand it.

And the smartest university in the world, Harvard, I bet you 85% of the kids don't even know that much basic information. And they're not taught it. They're not taught it in school. I think it's really important. I think one other thing that's important is for students to understand

that to have a different vision for the Middle East, that they don't really, like, that's what scares me, that we don't share a vision of the world like they're in in this colonialist mindset in this there's something has been taken away which is the idea that people of can live together as human beings not and that identity is not the strongest driver of existence like there's something deeper to it there's and there's humans being next to each other there's two countries that can live next to each other there's two nations that are indigenous to the land that can live next to each other in a way that will like politically be

reached through an agreement not with ideology which you know like there's this thing about ideology is very deep because the ideology in that world obviously doesn't apply to everybody, but a critical mass of people have the ideology that is not compatible with making peace with Israel. And that, in my opinion, has been why there has been no peace. I mean, that's what Benny Morris has come around to. And that's why I'm pessimistic. It's not that nobody wants to make peace, but it's not enough.

Now, what are we going to do about these settlers? Yeah, it's a huge problem. It's a huge problem. I mean, to what extent do they I think Noam you're referring to certain radical Jews that want to take over there's a half a million of them

they got out of Gaza in 2005 they got all of the settlers out of Gaza in 2005 there's a lot more settlers there's about lot more settlers. There's about half a million, Noam said, living. They're not all. They're not all ideologically.

Some of them are just there because they got a good deal on an apartment. Well, they're not all. Some of the settlements, I think everybody, I think this is where the overwhelming majority of them live. Everybody agrees in any peace plan, these would be like the outposts on the border and these are going to stay. Like Ariel. What's that? Like Ariel, for example. Yeah, yeah.

But now, in the last year especially, there's settlements, the settlers, you would know, you can tell this better than me, but they feel that the tide is turning in their favor. The right-wing government is on their side. They're using this, from what I read, they're using what's going on in Gaza now as an excuse to, I'm reading about violence, kind of like a renewed violence or a brazen kind of more violence.

So tell, what's your feelings all about all that? Look, I, for years, have been thinking that the settlements are the biggest problem for Israeli democracy. Why? Because they are the main divider, firstly. And secondly, they are, by continuing to build in the settlements, we are essentially, facts on the ground, changing the ability of Israel to make peace. With every new house that is built in these regions, we're essentially making it harder for a peace process to come to being. And in my opinion, there's also a military argument for why Israel needs to control this territory or be involved in ensuring that there's no rockets in these territories.

Unlike the Gazan border, this is strategically a high hill above Tel Aviv. Like if you're in the West Bank, you can see Tel Aviv from there. So it's a complicated region militarily. I think that if Israel were to, like I'm against the settlements. I think what's happening there is obnoxious right now and I think the fact that we have a government that the current government is I I'm I was protesting against it obviously um and against the judicial reforms and also against the settlements but I think if we want him to to do something about it it needs to be within a deal one of the issues of what we're

seeing in Gaza is because Sharon unilaterally left Gaza there wasn't an agreement and when there's no agreement you make it much harder for something positive to to come to being so when we're thinking about this war one of the major things that's on my mind is not, okay, firstly, of course, how do we get the hostages back? How do we take down Hamas? But also, what's next? And I think that's a really big question that Israeli ministers need to think about. So this incident, October 7th, it's more than an incident, an atrocity, October 7th, has not pushed you to the right in any way. You still have roughly the same ideology that you had before, the same views

that you had before. It doesn't sound like it's pushed you at all to be more right-wing. I think we have a vision of the left in Israel in recent years that the left has become less security-oriented. But the left for years has been very strong on security while at the same time always extended one arm always extended for peace when israel was founded ben-gurion when he the founding document of israel states we are open to having uh to having peaceful relations and economic ties with our neighbors. The country was built on the two hands. One, strong, and anyone that tries to kill us,

we will stop them from hurting our people. And two, at the same time, we extend our hand openly to make peace and to have economic relations. We have a really positive vision of life in Israel, and we want to live it. So I would say two things. First of all, this is a very, very important point there. And I remember having this argument with well-known people because Netanyahu was in power for so long

that people began to use him as the excuse that people were anti-Israel. And they had this vision in their head that, well, if only the other side would take over in Israel, then Israel's policies would change. And I say, no, they're not going to change, because any Israeli prime minister has to worry about the security of Israel. And you think the left and right are really far apart.

They're not that far apart on this stuff. So you're, you're right. The second thing is, now this is my opinion, but I, you know, this,

it's worth saying that the two sides, in my opinion, are not, are not mirror images. It seems at least it feels like, the Arabs, not all obviously, but the ones who do, the ones who are responsible for what has set policy in the Arab world, they hate the Jews. Their religion teaches that they hate the Jews. Their speeches talk about the Jews, the Jews, the Jews, the Jews.

The Jews don't hate the Arabs. The Jews have all sorts of resentments with the Arab attacks, with this and that. But the day that there was some peace between Israel and the Palestinians, the Jews are like, OK, great. We don't we don't have any beef with – we're not taught – we're not raised to say our religion teaches that the Arabs are this or the Arabs are that or Arabs are that. There's no cultural – although, again, there may be some that's grown in Israel because of like the Intifada and all that, but there's not a cultural tradition of Arab hatred. The European Jews who came from Germany, they didn't know from Arabs. They didn't come with any...

They came naive about the Arabs. Yeah, we'll make friends, blah, blah, blah, you know. Some of them. But in Islam, and I read a lot about it in the last couple weeks, there is a deep hatred of Jews. And it remains

to be seen if this can be overcome. So I'm writing my senior thesis in economics on the Abraham Accords, which is the agreement between the UAE, Saudi, sorry, not Saudi. Hopefully Saudi, not now Saudi, but agreement between the UAE Bahrain Morocco and Sudan um and it's interesting because we can like I'm writing about what economic prosperity can bring to the region and I think that it's possible like I I'm really optimistic about this. And I want to be optimistic about our ability to work together. And I think economic conditions can make that happen. I think it's also there's, of course, political, a lot of political incentives and geopolitical incentives involved in this deal.

And the reason that it came to being, especially involving Iran and so on. But I think, I really believe that there's radicals on both sides. There's radicals on both sides. And I think if we can bring the majority to come to an agreement with the majority of the Palestinian people, should they have a leadership that wants to take them to a statehood?

I think it could be. There's radicals on both sides, but I think that it has to be admitted by both sides that if there was a deal that said, OK, you guys get this and we get this. The Palestinians have no reason to think that Israel is not going to honor that deal. They have no reason to say, well, if we agree to that, Israel is just going to attack us tomorrow and try to take it back. They know that's not the case. You're right.

But Israel has every reason to worry that, oh, whoever signed that piece of paper will die in a coup tomorrow or shot like Sadat, and then Hamas will take over, and now they have their own land, and now they'll just use it to start everything all over again. So a reasonable Palestinian leader is going to have to come to grips with the fact that we are going to have to allow Israel certain concessions for their security. And maybe over 50 years or 100 years, we can contemplate changing that once we show them that they have Canada, as I said, Canada on their border. But there will not be a deal if they expect Israel to just pretend, well, we're signing on the dotted line.

So what are you worried about? That's not that's not reasonable, both because of the history, because of the culture and because there was a difference between a democracy and a dictatorship. When a dictatorship when a dictator gets his head cut off, everything starts over. All treaties, nothing is binding anymore. There is no there is no memory. So Hamas will kill Abbas. And they say, we didn't sign that. And they start over.

So when you start thinking down that road of real life, it's hard not to become some sort of right-winger in Israeli politics because it all sounds good until you say, well, you know, what's going to happen?

They need a leader who says, like Sadat did. And that has held. I mean, that piece has held, albeit it's not the warmest piece. Yes, that piece has held. I mean, you say you're optimistic and, you're optimistic with regard to Saudi Arabia, UAE, and so forth. You're optimistic regarding the Palestinians, however, given what Noam just said, which sounds— Noam, I hear you, and I feel this pain. I feel this pain right now as I'm grieving.

It's a very painful reality in Israel. But I think the main reason why I'm optimistic is because I choose to believe that the person I'm looking to in the eye, even if they want... I don't know. It's really hard because it goes down to the chorus like values of humanity like do you trust a human being in front of you or not and i want to trust like i want to and maybe it's absurd maybe we cannot trust each other and maybe we're we will forever be in a war but like

that's what bothers me so much on this campus that i'm not able to look someone in the eye and say we are both human let's share some basic values well you could trust somebody who you take to feel like you who who answers you with the same vibe and the same intent I think we learned some really difficult things about what we value as humans like like that Israelis really value life and that Hamas was talking a lot in the media about valuing death. Have you encountered any Palestinians that,

certainly many Israelis share your outlook and share your vision. Have you encountered Palestinians that share your precise vision of two peoples living together side by side in the land? Yeah. I have. I know people like that.

Palestinians? I'm not talking about... Yeah, absolutely. I encountered quite a few. And you know them because they work at some that work in Israel. How do you encounter Palestinians, typically? I led the Israel treks, and we go to the West Bank,

and we meet with quite a few Palestinians there, and also from campus, from Harvard. It's quite funny that the Palestinians are a lot less radical than some of the other people. Absolutely. There are people like that. That's why I use the term critical mass, because it could be 80% to feel that way. But that may not be enough, because if that 20% doesn't feel that way, and again, the

form of government is critical here, because 20% in a democracy can hold because they can't ever take the reins of power. But in a in in a in a. Different form of government. A 20 percent armed, you know, group of Hunter can can keep 80 percent as victims, as actually is the norm. I mean, what's going on in Iran? You think most of Iran is sympathetic to the Khomeini jihad sharia law? We know that Persia was not like that. Iran was a pretty cosmopolitan place. They have no fucking choice.

And the policy of that country is the policy of that country. And it's never going to change because they don't have the guns. Manny, do you have any questions you want to ask? He looks a little bored. I hope you found it somewhat interesting, Manny. You don't have to. No, no, I have questions.

I actually have a lot of questions. Well, one or two might be... The first question I have is why One or two, it might be. The first question I have is, why could Hamas, let me rephrase that, why could the people outside of Palestine, why would people side with Hamas on the destruction of Jews, even though Jews live probably

in the same apartment building as them or in the same neighborhood and they might be friends with Jews and they don't even know that. Yeah, I think it's a really important question. I think it's actually a really important one because you're asking why would anyone with a mind and a heart, right, choose to support an organization that deliberately does really bad things to people who did nothing bad to them, right? Now, I ask myself that a lot as well because I'm wondering, like,

why are my friends on campus supporting this organization and I think I think it comes from a deep deep frustration with what's going on for the Palestinians I mean these are people who have not had a homeland for many years and I think there's different ways to understand that frustration they're they're using they're channeling that frustration towards terror which i think is not the right thing to do but you can also channel that frustration towards like let's have a two-state agreement let's have a solution to this problem And I think that the main reason they're supporting it is because they are really, really upset at what's going on. And the narrative that they're hearing is not what you're hearing.

And their identity is not your identity. And they let that get in the way of their humanity. And it is always important to point out, although it's not relevant to the current situation, but it is relevant, I think, to the emotional reaction to the situation that there was a Palestinian state which was supposed to be created.

And it was. And all the Arab countries attacked. So the reason, the historical reason that there is no Palestinian state is 100% not Israel's doing or Israel's fault. I agree. Then, in 67, the occupied territories were part of the Arab world. And again, the reason that there was no Palestinian state has 100% nothing to do with Israel. And the entire predicament came about

because of an unprovoked attack from that land. And again, that's not going to improve the lives of poor Palestinian people suffering on the West Bank under the thumb of arrogant Israeli settlers and soldiers. I understand that, and I don't doubt for a minute that their overlords, as it were, treat them like shit. That's human nature. But it is still important for people who are so upset with Israel to understand that this was never the problem, this is the current problem. But we don't really know and no one's really explained to us

that, okay, well, if you get this land back now, what about what was bothering you before when you had it? Are you over that? Because it doesn't really sound, you've never really said, yes, we're over that.

From the river to the sea sounds like you're not over that. Actually, you want to take that back. And then you still have beef because the beef is not just about that. The beef is about 48. And if the beef is about 48, then you're going to have to go F yourself because no country with a nuclear bomb is going anywhere because you want them to. If it goes, it goes in a mushroom cloud. That's the way it is.

So they need to wake up about that, right? That's the way it is. So again, some of these facts are so easy to explain and so easy to understand. It's just shocking to me that they're not known. This is not algebra, like my son was trying to teach himself how to. This is not complex stuff. This is storybook stuff. You can put trying to teach himself how to, this is not complex

stuff. This is storybook stuff. You could put in a golden book for 10 year old and not be giving propaganda by the way, but I'm not describing like, Oh, some really propagandic version. No, this is what really happened. That's what really happened. You know? Yes. There was expulsions, whatever, but this is really, again, not the point. My question is also to you of what is the way out of all of this anti-Semitism? Wow. I'm serious. There's no way out. Well, I don't think so.

You're not allowed to walk around. Oh, you mean out of the specific thing in Harvard? Yeah, in universities. I didn't mean to interrupt. I think it's a... We have to wrap it up. Go ahead. Look, I don't want to believe that there's anti-Semitism. I would way prefer to believe that it's...

That's the way Jews are. Don't make that up. Yeah, that it's anti-whatever. But it is, and we have to. We have an obligation to point to it and say, guys, this is a line that was crossed red line you're far far crossing it now what i think we should do is i think i think students who are openly anti-semitic need to have one a conversation with a resident dean a dean a university someone

to tell them hey guys listen what you're saying there is not okay because if I would replace the word Jew with woman, with gay person, with anything else, it would be unacceptable. With black person, it would be unacceptable. So why is it acceptable when it's directed against a Jew? Can I answer it? Because that's what wokeness taught them.

Wokeness taught them, It redefined the rules. The rules used to be it's wrong to judge anybody by the color of their skin. Religion. Or religion. Now the rules are it's wrong to judge any of these following groups. But you could say whatever you want about white people, whatever you want about Europeans, and, of course, they recast Israel as white.

And that's why people have made fun of me. Like the word Karen always bothered me. And I don't care about a joke calling somebody a Karen. And I'm not even going to say that I don't understand what they're describing when they call somebody a Karen. But when like, I remember the mayor of Chicago got into a fight with somebody, she called her opponent a Karen. I'm like, you're just normalizing the idea of making fun of somebody because they're

white. And they rationalize this, but well, you know, there's punching up and punching down. I'm like, no, that's not, that's just rationalization. The logic is it's wrong to judge people by these characteristics, these immutable characteristics. It's wrong in the same way two plus two equals five is wrong. It doesn't matter who's in a position of power. Yes, certain consequences can be more damaging, but there's a fundamental intellectual basis for this argument. Right. And they abandoned it. They reprogrammed it. So when you tell somebody it's wrong to judge the Jews that way, they look at you blankly and saying, well, that's interesting.

I didn't realize it was wrong to do that. We've always been taught. I mean, that's what I hear every day. I think the main thing is that there's two problems. There's a surface level now problem and there's a deeper big problem. Harvard has been anti-Semitic for years. There was a quota.

In 1919, there was a quota on Jewish students. That was a long time ago, yeah. I think the university president, Gay, she came to Hillel, she spoke, she made a really strong statement saying anti-Semitism has no place at Harvard. That needs to be said to the entire school in an email. Yeah, it doesn't need to be said to Hillel.

To Hillel, to students at Hillel. What I'm saying is that you're latching on to what scraps there are to nourish yourself, but the fact is these people feel this way. They felt this way, it's the product of many years of indoctrination for lack of a better word that this is true and it's an acceptable way to think

and it's not going to just be changed by somebody saying, hey you know it's wrong oh shit it's wrong so on the deeper level, there needs to be a solution as well. And we're working with the university to do that. And I think the universities all across America need to take some very serious step

to stop this systemic anti-Semitism. The solution is, what's that famous, was it Hillel? If I'm not for myself, who will be? You know, this famous thing? Imena Nili Mili. That's in Hebrew? Yeah.

Yeah. This is really, the Jewish people are going to need to have to wake up here. And they are. And they're going to have to really make it clear to the world, they're not going to fucking take it. And we're not going to look the other way. We're not going to rationalize it and whatever it is you have to put people on the defensive what you say really is that okay enough with you i know like no no yeah you're right zero tolerance and i mean it means losing friends it means it means voting for different

candidates even if even if they have some other position that you don't agree with. It means deciding that this is the priority issue. And if you don't come correct on this issue, I don't really care about your tax policy or even whether or not you want to reinstate Roe versus Wade. This is issue number one. Are you soft on this anti-Semitism? And I think the Jewish people have to, and I mean, I don't know if you know, because you're not American, how deep within liberal circles, Upper West Side Jews and influential Jews are. This is their whole life. They have to be prepared to stand up and end it. Otherwise,

there is no hope. That's my opinion. I mean, every professor at Harvard, one thing we can say, all of higher education is filled with Jews, smart Jews. And they're doing a lot. They're going to need to do that, but they're going to need to keep it up

after this. Like, that's the only answer it, because if we tolerate it, it's ridiculous to think that if we tolerate it, anyone else is going to react worse than us. Right. True.

They're good. They have to, you have to expect the non-Jewish world to react as, as, as much as badly as, you know, the, the lower end of how the Jews react.

And if we don't, if we're making excuses, whatever it is, then of course, the Italian guy who lives next door to me is not going to give a shit about it because I don't give a shit about it. Yeah, I'm really mad about this Jewish thing,

but yeah, I'm still going to vote for whoever it is because, you know, I like her, you know, dumb policy, whatever it is. Most policies don't matter, by the way. Just so you know that most policies don't actually matter. This matters. I just wanted to get a little bit

to the bottom of your relationship with Perrielle. You're a thoughtful... Before we go, Manny has one more question. Go ahead. You're a thoughtful, reasonable, very intelligent young lady, and I'm wondering

if there's any blood relation to Perrielle. No, I'm kidding. I love Perrielle. Sadly, I did not inherit Perrie's humor, I have to say. Not her humor,

not a lot of other good traits. Are you on her husband's side or are you on her side? The other, not my husband's side. Okay, tell the story so um it's it's a gift it's a gift if i'm gonna share it but um yeah go ahead so in the 40s my grandparents left um lithuania and poland and my grandfather was a pretty big journalist everybody else was killed in the holoca all of their siblings. And he came to Israel and he was one of the figures who

worked with Jabotinsky. He was actually his secretary, his press secretary in founding the state. And he didn't know my grandmother. He married her to save her life. And they, nobody really had any money. It was Palestine then still. And they shared an apartment with a, another family. So it was my grandparents and two other people. And each of those people had two kids. And one of those kids was my mother. And the other kid on the other side is Shiley's grandmother. Super, super amazing woman. Her name is Talma.

Just throwing a word out there. Talma is a queen legend. She is. And so we grew up, they lived in the same apartment together for 15 years and they grew up as siblings. Even though they were not. Even though they were not blood related. So, but that was how

we always grew up. So her, and then Talma had three kids and my mom had me and Talma's three kids lived in Israel. And those were like my siblings. We went to Israel every summer and we lived in their house. And, um, so Dan's right. Yeah. There's no blood relations. No, there's, there's no, but I don't have any other siblings. And so I grew up, her father and his two siblings are the house that we still go to in Israel. So it's a. Okay, final question.

Manny, you have the final question. Wow, Periel, that's such a moving and interesting story. Thank you for sharing it with us. And these other people here, these are your sisters. I don't even see them there. That's your brother? That's my brother Yuval and my friend Shaked who's also a Harvard student.

Grad. Graduate. My son, we were at Harvard a couple weeks ago. Go ahead. So, we have to look at the bigger picture here. I'd say that basically 99.999999,

such a large amount of countries, the majority of their population are against Jews, which is just because anti-Semitism is the most normalism. How would it be possible to just stop that in general? Stop that? I think we just have to be strong. Noam, do you agree with that premise? Tell me, Mike.

What premise? The premise that 99.999999% of people... Of countries. He said countries, the majority is... What did you say manny the majority of population most people don't like jews and and is a solution to not be so loud you know larry my favorite larry david is that we are a bit much i think i think firstly i don't think most people are against us look what biden said

did you see the biden statement did you what Biden said. Did you see the Biden statement? Did you happen to see it? Did you see it? Is it when Joe Biden said that they stand with Israel? Yeah, that they'll support Israel. Good, you saw it. So many countries, Germany, European countries, stood with Israel. And I think many...

For like 48 hours. For like 48 hours. For like 48 hours. But in general, I think we as a country, Israel, we need to be strong. We cannot let our enemies do what they did to us. Yeah. People respect that in a certain way too. You know, human psychology is very sick and disgusting and

in in some way i i heard people talking about this the the outlandishness of the hamas attack strikes certain primitive gets certain primitive respect from people which is an awful part of human nature but i think it's... Yeah, it's worse than what happened in the... It reminds me of what happened in the Middle Ages, the attack. That was a type of violence. That's some Genghis Khan shit.

Yeah, yeah. We have to go. I have one final statement. A statement, a closing statement from Manny Dorman, everybody. Listen, my son, the thing, my son's very smart. Yeah, I can tell.

But he says stuff sometimes, and I was like, oh God, no. And he says stuff, and by the way, my oldest son does it too. They don't get it from me. He'll say some crazy stuff that he heard somewhere and then people say, did you teach your son? I'll say, I didn't

teach him that. Go ahead, what do you want to say? Shia Lee has a fight to catch. For the better part of 80 years everyone around Israel has been attacking Israel. And then finally when Israel

just put a stop to it now they're calling Israel the bad guys. I think you're yeah I think that's a good summary. I think it's also a little bit more complicated

and what I think people need to do like you're doing is to open their history textbooks and open things up and start reading and read and learn and educate themselves like you're doing, which is what kids have the brains to do. But apparently Harvard students don't. Manny mostly, I think, gets it on YouTube. Where do you learn all this stuff? I didn't get that on YouTube. Where do you get all your stuff?

It's just blatant facts for the better part of history. But Where do you learn all this stuff? I didn't get that on YouTube. Where do you get all your stuff? It's just blatant facts for the better part of history. But where do you hear these facts? Hebrew school? YouTube? Where do you get them? You don't read it. Of course I don't read it.

Whatever. He probably got it at Hebrew school. Thank you, Shiley Ron. Where are you going? You have a flight tonight? Yeah, I'm going back to Boston. Back to Boston? I just take the train.

But anyway. I drive. The train was But anyway, I drive. The train was expensive because of the marathon. Okay. Thank you, Shadi Ron. Thank you,

thank you, Manny Dorman. Shalom. Okay, we'll see you next time. Thank you, Ariel Ashenbrand. Ariel Ashenbrand as well.