The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Howie Mandel

Episode Date: June 5, 2020

Howie Mandel 

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the Table, the official podcast of New York's world-famous comedy seller coming at you on SiriusXM 99 Raw Dog and the Ridecast Podcast Network. Dan Natterman here with Noam Dorman, the owner,

the proprietor of the world-famous comedy cellar. Hello, Dan. Periel Ashenbrand, the producer of the show, wearing makeup today. She's looking good. I don't know what the occasion is. And we have with us perhaps the most, this may not be an exaggeration to say, the most well-known guest we've had on this show. No. Well, we had Michael J. Fox, but tonight we have somebody

of great standing. Mr. Howie Mandel joins us from his home in Los Angeles, California. Hello, Howie. Hi, Dan. I love you, buddy. Thank you so much for doing the show. I know you listen to the show. I do listen to the show, and I am a fan, and I don you listen to the show I do listen to the show and I am a fan and I don't get to frequent it as much as I would like and I'm a huge fan of Comedy Cellar I just think that that is the epicenter of

good and funny things Thank you sir I know Noam's glad to hear that hopefully the Comedy Cellar will be the best in the world the best what in the world? sir. Thank you. I know Noam's glad to hear that. Hopefully the comedy seller will be... The best in the world. The best what in the world? Hummus. Hummus.

Do you not eat hummus? I eat the hummus. Do they still serve it? They changed the menu and I haven't had the... Of course we still serve it. Still serve it. Okay. And it's currently the hummus is unfortunately rotting, I guess. Hummus on hiatus. In the fridge. Humor and hummus is unfortunately rotting, I guess. Hummus on hiatus.

In the fridge. Humor and hummus kind of start off the same. The humor and hummus are on hiatus. But it feels like I've got a feeling in my bones, knowing that it's going to be back soon. It just feels like it's going in that direction. Well, the chickpeas, there's no end to how many chickpeas there are in the world. So hummus is always going to be here.

Is that what you're talking about? That's exactly what he meant. No, I think that we're not going to be open for another few months, Dan. Well, all right, a few months, but even a few months is relatively good news compared to the worst case scenario that I've been imagining in my mind, which I always tend to go to the worst case scenario.

Nothing is easier to perform in front of than a socially distant audience. They're sometimes that way by accident, but now you guys have... Howie, have you done any... Howie, you do a lot of shows I know, stand-up shows. Have you done any shows via Zoom?

You know, I've been called to do things. It doesn't... Well, not stand-up. So I had like a lot of bookings like we all did and they've gone by the wayside and people are figuring out new ways of doing things. So where I did have stand-up gigs, and this is predominantly,

what I'm about to say was predominantly with the fundraisers, we have set up Zoom Q&As. So hopefully the humor still lands there. But, you know, it's really hard to, for me, it's really, you know, it's kind of like comedy acapella. You know, part of the background music we need in comedy is the audience. So without the audience there, I mean, and I'm not even a fan of music acapella. As soon as on AGT, when a group comes on and they go, look, we're singing without instruments.

You know, I kind of I can respect that they have good voices and they're able to hold a tone. But there's no reason to do it without a band because a band just adds something. By the same token, yeah, funny is funny, but there is a rhythm. And I think we all agree with that. You're all in the same token. Yeah. Funny is funny, but there is a rhythm. And I think we all agree with that. You're all in the same business. There is a reason for the audience and the audiences as if not more important than the person standing on stage to kind of inform the person on stage that they're going in the right direction and supplying fuel to the person in stage. And also if nothing else, like the drummer in a band,

it gives you your rhythm for me. I can't speak to it. Oh, that's absolutely true. I've done Zoom shows and what sometimes they do is they'll leave a few people's mics on so that you get some laughs. And that's helpful.

It gives me a line now that, I mean, after this, and hopefully things go back to a somewhat normal kind of, you know, you can always use the term Zoom as kind of a callback to when you hear crickets. This is like doing a show on Zoom, people. This will be something that stays with, I mean, that's an interesting question, is how long after this is all over will jokes about this event be being told?

How long will it still be relevant? Howie, do you have jokes prepared about the quarantine and about COVID ready to rock and roll when you go back to the stage? The key is with COVID and this, you know, we live in an era. You know, my favorite, I started, I think you started, did you start in the 70s? I think that's when the, when did the club open? In the 70s? I started in the 90s. The club opened in, you're talking to Noam or me?

Well, I didn't know that you started in the 90s. I feel like you've been around longer than the 90s. But Noam, when did you start the club? My father started in 1981. So 1981. Well, I came out to L.A. in the mid-70s and got to go to the comedy store and was lucky enough to watch Pryor each and every night get on stage and cobble together what I believe one of the seminal stand-up specials of all time was live on the Sunset Strip.

But he was the first one, and in no way do I compare myself or even close to anything that Pryor ever did or was or could be. But he kind of informed me that these clubs, and you're kind of the last bastion of this happening right now, and I'm talking about the Comedy Cellar, is where people go as an artist. That's the studio. That's the place where you can go

and kind of cobble together and build this art. But before this pandemic, we were kind of besieged by political correctness, which kind of took away from that ability. And it's like saying to an artist, to a painter, you can come and paint, but don't use orange, green, or yellow anymore, because that's just not cool. So it made that, it made these places really tough. So by the same token, and I don't know, because we've got bigger

fish to fry right now, political correctness is still going to be okay. But you're talking about, as we speak today, over 100,000 people died because of this. I'm cognizant, when we have these discussions about political correctness, that all comedy comes out of darkness. But it's just what kind of tolerance does the audience have for the darkness that you want to bring up? See, in my mind, having watched and been birthed in the way that I think about things by watching Richard Pryor, there's no such thing as too soon. There's no such thing as what you can't talk about. You as a free society have the choice of saying, I don't find that funny, or I find that offensive, but it shouldn't be shutting people down. So my, yes, I have things about COVID and I have things about, but it shouldn't be shutting people down. So my, yes, I have things

about COVID and I have things about, but, but we have to remember, you know, I don't think any joke in the history of humor has ever come from something positive. If you watch a clown as a kid, if you watch a clown fall down in the circus, you're laughing at the misfortune of this person that you don't know. When two guys walk into a bar, you're waiting for something embarrassing and horrible to happen to one of the guys. Otherwise, it's not a joke. Right. So the answer to your question, Nat,

is yes, I do have humor. Will the audience be receptive? Will they come out of this on the other side more sensitive than they went in with? Will the political correctness that has been the, I think the, the rage of our whole industry has been horrible to us. It makes it not what I thought was fun. I was a guy who grew up with not many friends. And when I, you know, and I had a hard time with mental health. And when I found a comedy club and I got to, it was the first place that I felt like, oh

my God, you know, I'm inappropriate. I just am, you know, that's who I am. And I found a club where there's like-minded people. And if you cross the line, there is a place for this square peg in the round hole of earth, you know, and that's what a comedian is. And we were celebrated by it. And you didn't and that's what a comedian is and we were celebrated by it and you didn't even have to be a comedian to be you could say something that was offensive to somebody in the 70s and i'm a lot older than you nat but you could say somebody something and

then you can go you can kind of the panacea was i'm joking i was just joking but now joking is not accepted so you're not that much older than me given your fame older than me. You've been famous for so long that one would think you must be 100 years old. I'll be 65 this year.

How old are you? I'm 50, but it's a 50. 50 years. That's a lifetime. I don't regard 15 years. I used to regard 15 years as a long time when I was 15, for example. Are you dating anybody within the 15-year zone? You mean 15?

35-year-old? The last girl I kept company with was in that zone, but I don't want to. Kept company. I have something about the PC. I'm trying to keep it clean, you know, even though we're on the internet, but, you know, you're a network brand, so I'm trying to... Anything you say will not

get me thrown off my show. Can I ask you something about the PC stuff? How much of it would you say is just a lie and for show and a product of intimidation? Because I haven't noticed actual audiences be offended by stuff i was even offended at and then the problem i'll tell you what the problem

is the problem is when i got into the business in the mid 70s what was media was considered somebody from people magazine or the new york or whatever. That was media. You know, there's somebody here from the paper. There's somebody here from the, now the media is some goofball who's been alone for the last 10 years in his underpants sitting on his couch, and he doesn't know anybody. So what happens is that mixed with the technology of the ability of somebody to go into a club anywhere and record something or remember something out of context put it on their site or or just you know click about it and then there's this you know it's like a little small little snowball that he pulls off that he pushes off the edge and it keeps rolling and becoming bigger and bigger

and bigger and so many people are offended but not not really. But in the context of your fee, they're offended. You have been canceled. Well, and then the corporations, the corporations, the corporations buckle. That's been my beef. Like Chappelle did that special. And he joked about Michael Jackson's victims and everybody and the reviewers went nuts. And the audience loved him and nobody fired him and everybody forgot about it like nobody really cared i don't know that that's a good example because first of all dave chappelle doesn't have anything to be fired from at this point netflix dropped him pardon me netflix didn't netflix didn't make any noise netflix won't number one number two i i don't think that they do that

and and i think that they bought into something that they thought was loud and noisy and controversial in the first place. So, and they're also not brand supported in as far as advertisers. So that's the big thing. And that's why corporations have a tendency to, to drop people because when you are leaning into, you know, Coke and Pepsi and Ford and those kind of people are the finance behind what's driving it. And if you feel like you may offend them and lose that money, Netflix, if anything, and they go by their analytics, you know, when they signed Chappelle to, you know,

40 and $60 million deals. And that was nothing to them. Because if you look, a lot of that audience were not subscribers, that the subscriber list grew by leaps and bounds. So they made more money on, you know, trafficking in in great artistic controversy than they would in that controversy, you know, kind of killing that lifeline of cash, which it would if I did something controversial, if I let Nat really talk about what he did to that young woman, I could lose that job I have on NBC. Definitely did drop Louie, but I guess that's not, that's not a fair comparison either.

That Richard Pryor special, that's the one where he wears the red suit, the live at the sunset strip. Yes. Oh, that's the one where he wears the red suit, the live at the Sunset Strip? Yes. Oh, that's the best one ever. And by the way, this just came back to me. What year did you do your young comedian special, the first one? I think that was the same time. It might've been 81, like when your dad opened this. My young comedian special was me, Richard Lewis, Jerry Seinfeld, Harry Anderson. And it was hosted by the Smothers Brothers. And it was the Roxy on Sunset Boulevard.

So did you have a bit there where there was a timpani drum somewhere there and you ran over and said, when do you get the chance or something like that? Yeah. Well, at the beginning of my career, people don't know that I got made fun of. The world of comedy, if people don't know that I got made fun of, you know, the world of comedy, people don't know, is the biggest critics are our fellow comics. You know, it's a real hard world to live in. We're really not, traditionally, we weren't that supportive of each other. And I think that's because our audition is in the face of other people. You know, it's kind of like you

go to the party, and then you have this party. And. And I know like when you're sitting on the back of the comedy cellar, the people that are not upstairs at this table or at the back of the room, you go on stage and you go, Oh my God, everybody loves me. Everybody's laughing at me. And then you watch the next person go up and you go, wait, wait, wait, they like him or her better than, you know, so that kind of, that kind of wells up in people. And you kind of hear about that. I'll be honest. I'll be the first to say I didn't really have an act. So I don't know if you guys know my beginnings, but, you know, I just got dared. I wasn't aspiring to be a comedian. I wasn't aspiring to be in show business or, you know, and I didn't have that background. I went to a comedy club because I'm not a drinker. I'm not a dancer. I'm not a sports person. So this was

like the height of disco where Studio 54 was happening. And a comedy club opened in Canada called Yuck Yucks. And I had never seen stand-up comedy live. So we went one night and the host said, you know, after you see this show at midnight, we'll host amateurs if anybody thinks they can do it. And the person I was sitting with said, you should go up. And I went, I've talked about this before, but I suffer from ADHD and OCD and that. And one of the issues that has worked for me, but also affected me throughout my life

is I don't think of any ramifications. I just go, okay. So that was going to be the joke that I was going to get on stage, that Mark Breslin was going to go, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel. And then that's the joke. I'm not a comedian and I'm introduced and I'm standing on a stage.

So what happened was he went, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel. And I stood there and then like an idiot, I realized, oh, my God, you know, I was blinded by the spotlight. I looked down in that front row and there's faces of people I don't know who are, you know, looking at me going, okay, okay. So what? And it was so embarrassing, so scary. And then the adrenaline started, you know, just flowing through my body. And I got really scared. And I wasn't thinking. And I started going, okay, okay, okay.

All right. Okay. Okay. Okay. And they could sense that I was nervous and scared. And if you Google like that young comedian special or any of them, you'll see, people think I changed my persona.

I didn't change my persona. I'm just not scared to death anymore. So I was going, okay, okay, okay, okay. And I'm trying to think of something. No, you know, and even like you talked about in the young comedian special, I look, I didn't have even a ton of material. I didn't have any material for that.

Timpani drum. Oh, all right, I'll play that. Because when do you get a chance? I was just being honest. And as I'm going, okay, okay, the audience is picking up the vibe, that nervous energy, and they start giggling and laughing at me

more than with me. And then I kind of didn't understand it. So I started going, what, what, what? No, tell me what, what, what? Okay, and that became my act. And I was also, you know, I've always been a germaphobe. We could talk about that a little later, but I put my hands in my pocket cause I was nervous and I had the latex glove.

I had rubber gloves because I wouldn't touch things even in those days. And out of the necessity of not having any plan or anything to do, I pulled the glove out. I put it on my head. I just weren't really wanting to hide. And I put it over my head on my nose and I started breathing and the fingers are going up and down. The audience is roaring. So I put it over my head on my nose and I started breathing and the fingers they're going up and down the audience is roaring so I blow it up more it pops off they applaud I walk off this I run off the stage I just wanted to get the fuck out of there can I say that okay I didn't I just wanted to get the fuck out of there and Mark stops me and goes can you come

back tomorrow and I go for what he goes do it again that was good I go what was it please just tell me what it was and by the same token i said oh this is a great club i just i have there's a respite for me in my life where i feel so awkward with maybe i fit in so i started up with also no aspirations to be a comedian and then i went out to california and i had met uh uh mike binder you know mike right i don't know you know i'm not familiar with him, no. Mike Binder was a really good comic at the time. He became a writer, a director.

He wrote and directed The Upside of Evil, which got an Academy Award nomination. Or he was In the Mind of a Married Man on HBO. Okay, yeah, I remember that. He's also got a great show coming out on Showtime now. But he's behind the scenes, a writer, a producer, directed a ton of movies and things you saw. But he's behind the scenes, a writer, a producer, directed a ton of movies and things you saw, but he's from Detroit, him and Dave Coulier and those guys, they had come down to Toronto because that club was happening, the Yuck Yucks at the time,

and I met him. So when I was in California doing business, retail, I was in retail, he said, I can get you on at the comedy store because he was friends with Mitzi. I went up at the comedy store and there happened to be a producer in the audience from that comedy game show, Make Me Laugh. And he hired me on the spot. And I did that show and went back to Toronto and I just started getting calls. This is nothing I ever thought about. Amazing story.

Well, I was in law school when I started, but I did intend to be a comic. So I did go to my first open, it was not an open mic, it was what they call a bringer show where you have to bring three people. Right. They want you to bring their own audience. I just want to tell you just so for years, me and all my high school friends would say, when you get the chance, like that became like a really big part of our thing between us. And then I kind of forgot about it till just this second, but it all came

back to me. That was Howie Mandel. It was a big part of us. I mean, we really wanted to talk about, you mentioned political correctness. I did want to talk about AGT because that's sort of how we know each other. We did work together years ago. I opened for you, but our main association is AGT.

But the thing about, I wanted to talk about stand-up comedy on AGT. I think you'd agree, stand-up comedy is sort of the ugly duckling or the odd man out on AGT. Well, you say that. I don't think so. Here's what, this is my thought on AGT. Listen, ultimately, I don't think there's any form of art that shouldn't be on that show. Stand-up comedy is the ugly duckling of show business. You know, I'm of the belief, and maybe this is wrongly so, even on The Tonight Show, where they say that, you know, Johnny Carson, and I got to do it. You know, I did it 22 times with Johnny.

That was the pinnacle. You know, when I started in comedy, and before I was known, if somebody walks up to you in the street and said, what do you do? And you say you're a comedian. Before they knew your name, the litmus test for the layman was saying, well, have you been on the Johnny Carson show? And then if you said no, then they just left you by the wayside. If you said yes, then that gave you legitimacy. But even on The Tonight Show, I always felt, and this is a guy watching from the outside, we were the ugly duckling on The Tonight Show too, because even though it made careers, I still find it fascinating that comics were amazed that he invited me to sit down. He invited

me to sit down. You were the one act on the show that created its own material, that created its own persona, that went out there and performed on their own. Whereas if some singer came on and sang a cover of somebody else's song, they were sitting down. If you were the third tier on a sitcom, if you're Donnie Most, I'm not knocking Donnie Most, unhappy, then you sat down and you were afforded that,

you know, then he was interested in talking to you. But if you were a comedian, which was always at the end of the show, after everything, it was like you clean up the little mess and make people laugh. If you were really enjoyable, then you got that. Everybody's waiting for that wave. And we are so blown over. I got to sit down on my first shot. I got to sit down on my first shot. I got to sit down. You know, I don't think it's different

on any other show than it always is. I don't think that we demand respect because I think we also sell that. I think it's the interpretation because most of us make fun of ourselves and our predicaments. So we say that, you know, that's our currency is disrespect well

but i do think because it's a network show in a primetime network show and we were talking about political correctness we're kind of stripped of of that ability in other words a singer there's nothing that a singer couldn't sing you know um that's not true first of all the singer is held i'll tell you this right now because i know and I know that the back end of that, the singer could choose a comedian, it's harder. Here's the thing. And I try to explain to my cohorts on the panel, to Heidi and whoever was there when you were there, and Alicia and Simon, that you don't realize, and nobody does, realizes what goes into this. And we make an art form not look like an art form. I think the average person who even walks into the comedy cellar assumes that some guy was eating upstairs. He wandered downstairs under the stage and he's just telling you about something that happened.

The audience doesn't think that you wrote that. The audience doesn't think that you hone that, that you cobble together, that you're a bit of a wordsmith, that you kind of knew what was going to make all these strangers laugh. Our art form is the most hidden art form there is because everybody talks all day long. It's just that they think we're funny. And the audience thinks the onus is on them. You know, I thought it was funny. You know?

I'll add to that. Everybody's made a joke and made people laugh. So like, oh, well, so hard. I made people laugh. So what's the big deal joke and made people laugh so like oh what's so hard i made people laugh so what's the big deal when he makes people laugh but that's exactly it there isn't anybody alive who hasn't walked up to somebody and go you want to hear something funny yeah but i i've told this story many times about my in my own career you know one of the pinnacles of my career was in in 86 or 87 i sold out the radio city music hall in a couple of hours and i sold out two Radio City Music Hall in a couple of hours. And I sold out two shows in one night in a couple of hours.

So that's like 7,000 seats and 7,000 seats. My wife and I are in the dressing room between the two shows. And we're looking down on 7th Avenue. And 7,000 people are teaming out of the building. And 7,000 people are coming in for the next show. And we're looking down on 7th Avenue in the middle of Manhattan. They got stanchions up. And the cops are, there's a quagmire of traffic and it's the middle of the biggest city in the world.

And my wife said, this is all for you. What are you thinking? And honestly, I was thinking that, you know, this is a city of 10 million people, 9,984,000 people don't give a shit I'm here and don't like what I do. They don't, you know, it's not. So I realized, and maybe it's because, and I believe I am a lot older than you, I've kind of settled with the fact that really doesn't matter. It's just me. So even at AGT, I tell people, go out, you've got to show up because I've talked to so many comics that have said, I don't want to do that. I'm trying a different way. I'm not going to go on that show. We're being judged enough anyway. I just think that if anybody who has a voice can get a platform where 10 million people will see you, it's never about the people in the room.

It's not about you and me and like me and any of the judges. It's always, and I learned that really late in my career. I was always trying to make the person in the studio laugh, but there's always millions more people outside of that studio play to the audience. And that in the last time you were there's always millions more people outside of that studio. Play to the audience. And that, in the last time you were there, you killed it. You did.

And you know what even killed it more? Your worst darkest moment. Your worst darkest moment was Simon didn't get it. And you set the line and we always repeat it. You wouldn't know your ass from your elbow. And that was a comedy highlight on AGT in the last 15 years. And I know it felt terrible to you. We talked afterwards, but that's the, that's the reality of it. And that was a

highlight that the audience was tweeting about that the audience liked. So I don't think, yes, we are the bastard child of show business, but the, uh, but the, but the more importantly, I think what we do is important. I think what we do is great. And I don't think we could, we have, I don't think it's healthy to come outside of ourselves and kind of analyze the stage we're on. How pissed was Simon when Dan said that? He wasn't, he was laughing. He laughed. He, he, he, I'll be honest with you.

He recognized that that was witty that was funny and that was great and dan walked off the show and he went oh my god that guy is good and that's what he said to me and then i walked upstairs and dan's got his head buried in his lap and he's going oh shit oh and i'm going dan you don't understand how great that was but because it was real and because he was living it because it wasn't planned and because it wasn't coupled he's just so witty so smart and so genuine and authentic it worked for him i didn't think it was necessarily a witty comment although i think it was delivered with a with just the right amount of nailed it then i think i nailed the rhythm of it for me is being able to hold your

ground and say anything in the moment a lot of people who aren't witty and aren't in our business, something is offensive or they may be in a moment. And most people, most humans just shut down and say nothing. Well, you know, what was helpful is when he buzzed me, he buzzed me at the end of my act. Had he buzzed me early on, I would have probably been so deflated that I would have continued, but it would have been difficult. He buzzed me before my last joke. By then, the audience had already embraced me, and I felt fortified, so that his buzzing was not quite as brutal as it might have been had it come earlier. But as you've watched it, obviously, as much as that would have torn you up inside, your composure never changed. you know? And that's

what the, that's what a true comic is, you know, in the face of adversity, you got to get out there. And that's what, because comedy is about adversity. Comedy is the lightness, you know, it's called a sense of humor. My contention is that most people don't have a sense of humor and it is the sense. It's a sense. It's not, if you say it's a joke, people know where the joke ends because it's rhythmic and they laugh at it. Just because you laugh at a joke doesn't mean you have a sense of humor. And it is the sense. It's a sense. It's not, if you say it's a joke, people know where the joke ends because it's rhythmic and they laugh at it. Just because you laugh at a joke doesn't mean you have a sense of humor. A person with a sense of humor finds the humor in the darkness, in the worst places in the world. Well, we got a lot of bad things going on right now, but we're keeping this episode light. We delve into some heavy shit on a lot of other our other

episodes but i do want to talk about your ocd since you brought it up and you said that you'd be willing to discuss it i'm ready to sit i'm eligible to do it damn it just like how a germaphobe is dealing with covid is a fascinating subject yes that's well that's what i wanted to ask about okay well the truth is and i sent you a text um when started. I said you were right the whole time. I thought it was funny, and other people have made that contention. Then I heard Bill Maher talking about you, saying this is not funny what Howie is suffering from.

Well, I personally don't get offended, and it's not funny. It's a funny joke. Listen, laughter for me has been my panacea, has been my bridge. If I don't laugh, I'll cry. It's been, I've had a really, I have a really tough time in my own head really like from day one.

But the truth of the matter is this is the nightmare that's been going on every day of my life in my head. But the, you know, to be able to wake up and find out it was just a nightmare and it's not real. And I'm the only one living that nightmare was more comforting than now everybody living my nightmare. So it's not a dream. It's real. So this has been really tough for me personally. I've upped my medication. I've sent my therapist into a whole new tax bracket. It's tough, but I cope. Can you describe what you're afraid of? You're afraid of a particular illness, even before COVID, I mean, but you didn't want to shake it.

Can I ask you that in one question? I got a phone ringing in the other room. I'm just going to hang it up and pull it out, okay? Go ahead. Let me hold it. It'll be 30 seconds. No, we're not live. We can pause for station identification.

What is going around the world? What do you think, Noel? Very good. He's terrific. Yeah, he's always been a... I forgot that you two knew each other as well. I forgot that you opened for him.

We don't know each other well, but I've opened for him a couple of times. I'm back. Oh, he's back. I'm sorry. Because I got kids and grandkids, so if my phone's ringing,

I get panicked. My thing about germs is, and I know sometimes these fears are not rational, but when I think about germs, I think about what could happen to me. Well, a cold and a flu I can handle. One thing I am deathly afraid of is anything involving nausea and vomiting. And I do have, I wouldn't call myself a germaphobe, but if I taste a piece of food that tastes a little off, I get very upset that, oh my God, I'm going to start throwing up

because that scares the shit out of me. I mean, is there any specific illness that you fear? Before COVID, I mean. The truth of the matter is with what I deal with, you got to understand obsessive compulsive disorder. It just happens to manifest itself with germs. The issue is that, and it's usually just hand to hand,

because people will see me hugging people and they go, I thought you were a germaphobe. If I think I have something on my hand, it triggers me. And I have other triggers. OCD, I don't have any different thoughts than anybody who doesn't have OCD. The problem is that you get caught in a loop and you can't get out of that loop. So I'll give you an example. So if somebody shook my hand or you shook somebody's hand after a show and they had like an icky, sweaty hand, you would go, oh, my God. Like, I don't know. Or if you saw the guy right before you shook his hand, he sneezed into his hand and then he went, hey, Howie Mandel. And it was nice to meet you.

That would be icky. And that's happened many times years and years ago. And then what happens is you go in and you wash your hands because you got to get it off your hands. If I'm triggered and I go through a spell of OCD, what'll happen is as soon as I leave the bathroom, I go, you know what? I didn't get it all. I go back into the bathroom and I turn the water on hotter. And then I scald my hands. And then I turn that off and I walk out and I go you know what I didn't I didn't wash it enough and then I'll get caught in this horrible circle that I can't get out of and it stops my life I've checked the door over 200 times in over three hours and missed meetings and and what the the bigger the the suffering is intellectually

I know like even if this guy had a cold and I don't put my fingers in my mouth, I'm not going to get a cold. But I can't stop myself. But even if you get a cold, it's hardly the end of the world. Right, but I can't stop myself from protecting myself. And if I was, I'm intellectual enough to, I have enough intelligence to know that what I'm thinking is crazy. Yet I can't control myself. Or a thousand times. I can't stop checking the door and I missed two meetings and it stops my life. And that's the you know, that's why when you look at I was talking to somebody yesterday about it, like Howard Hughes and his story.

I mean, there's a guy who was an engineer. He moved aerospace ahead. He started the movie industry. He had everything at his fingertips. His obsessive compulsive disorder left him at the end of his life naked in the fetal position, being into a bottle. I promise you, I'm not that far from that. What about, what's your take on, I mean, I don't want to get this wrong, but I think Howard Stern in his book describes suffering from symptoms of OCD and he claims that this Dr. Sarno, the back doctor. Yeah. Do you have any take on that? No, no, no. I can't speak to anybody else. And I don't know that I did read, Howard did give me the Dr. Sarno book and it did cure me of my back pain,

you know, which was, you know, because I, I believe that, you know, mind over matter. And I believe that you manifest things in your mind that feel real and you can have these pains and these issues. It didn't help me with my OCD. The medication helps me with my OCD and I have coping skills that helped me. And I'll be honest with you, standup comedy. And that's why this is a real hard time for me. Standup comedy is the one thing that I've never, I mean, the least I've ever done is a hundred live dates a year. I've always been doing, you know, standup. And I always, when I have a night off, no matter what I'm doing,

I'll drop into a club and whether I'm in New York and I drop into your club or whatever, and I'm doing it because more importantly, it's not about performing. That's the one thing that keeps me in the moment. And when you have obsessive compulsive disorder and all these other issues that I have, like depression and anxiety, you know, and I think the average person, your mind goes to worrying and thinking about what might happen or you're obsessing about what did happen. But the only way to stay sane is in the now. And there's nothing that's more in the now than standing on stage in front of a group of strangers and trying to entertain

them. It's like the equivalent of going on a thrill ride on a roller coaster. You're not really thinking of anything as you go over that first drop. And that first drop is kind of the same as, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel. You find that your OCD symptoms are worse under certain circumstances like sometimes if I'm really nervous as I was for example before AGT going on stage I do get obsessive compulsive I'll check my before leaving the hotel room on the way to film AGT I was checking oh did I lock it did I leave anything on becauseT, I was checking, oh, did I lock it? Did I leave anything on? Because I think I was trying to not think of AGT. And so I'm trying to think of... But I think that's nervousness and neurosis. And that's what I say. I'm not a great advocate for, though that's my soapbox is mental

health, because I have been diagnosed with something that has a title. But I don't think there's a human being alive that doesn't need to find a coping skill for getting through and to be triggered. And whether that's on your way to what you believe is a big benchmark in your career, or you're getting married, or what about, you know, the breakup of a relationship? Or what about somebody you know, being diagnosed with something something or what about, you know, just dealing right now with how do you reopen this business? You know, we all have those pressures and we all, some people are better at coping than others. It's just coping. And this is all part of life. And, you know, for us, it's like, you know, you don't want to be, but even what I've learned, even though I know this intellectually, you know, no one move, no one

show, no one issue in life really makes that much of a difference, as much energy as we put into that. It's kind of a collective, you know, you know, we all, and I still do, I've had horrible shows in the last year, horrible crickets.ickets. I get booked, and you know this, Dan, I get booked to do a corporate gig where not only is nobody a fan of mine in particular, but nobody speaks English, and they book me. And out of it, I get a funny story, and I get a great experience. But in those moments, it's like, really, really like why out of anybody you could have chosen? Why did you choose me? And why am I in this predicament? I just did one. We were in Florida, right before this started. And it was the International Grocers Association where everybody

who isn't on domestically, anybody who has a, you know, a small little grocery store in an island off of Argentina, this is where they come to buy all their produce for the year. This is it. So every table was non-English speaking. Yeah. So I would say something. There would be a pause. But then you can hear this rumbling. And it was always the one person at the table who spoke English, followed by an oh.

It was horrible, but it's a great funny story and it doesn't really affect my career or my life, but it did affect me that night. It's not my nervousness is less tied to will it affect my career and just more to stage fright.

But what is stage fright? You're using a term stage fright. What are you afraid of? I'm not. They won't like you. Yeah, that. And sometimes I'm afraid that I won't be able to just do my job. Don't do your job.

What is the ramification? It's embarrassing. That's what it is. It's embarrassing. It's like that dream we all have where you show up at a party with no pants on. And that's what comedy feels like, especially when it's not going well. Right. So what would you prescribe in terms of therapy?

Just cognitive therapy? I'm not a doctor. I know, but you've been to a doctor. I think you must know something. I don't know anything. I don't even understand myself. You know, I don't know anything. I just do. understand myself. You know, I don't know anything. I just do. You know, I believe in what Nike tells us, just do it. And thinking about things,

thought has never been a great reliever of anything for me. If I do things without thinking, I'm better off. Just knee-jerk reactions, just go and do it. And I'll tell you, I spend most of my life very uncomfortable. I've gotten more comfortable with discomfort. I think the average person is uncomfortable. Anyhow, I am the average person, but I think most people are uncomfortable most of their lives. I think that's why they spend time before they go out, you know, getting ready. What are you getting ready for? You know, doing their hair and looking in the mirror. Who do you want to look good for? The world. By the same token, we write our material and get set. And then we're afraid we're not going to look good. Or there's going to be a lot of people that are a lot funnier than us.

Or there's going to be a lot of other people that the audience is going to embrace and compare me to. I'm afraid of an anti-Semitic backlash. Well, we're just born with that. That's the new way. No, but what about your coping mechanisms? I mean, Howie mentioned, you know, anxiety about your club. I don't know how you feel about that. I try just not to think about things. And I focus on one of the things that has really allowed me to cope is having

these young kids because I can just throw myself into raising the kids. And I am able to block things out by that. Before that, I have no thought about the fact that Dan may one day be dating one of them. I have actually, I have had, I don't have the dream about the party because that would be showing off, but I do have the dream about my kids dating Dan. That's my nightmare. 15 is about my limit in terms of

age difference. But when I was younger and I would have a lot of stress, what I would do, it's interesting. I would go to one of these video game kiosks in a bar. And they would have these rapid fire like card games, these number games. And I discovered that if I play these games, because there was no time to wait, you had to get the answer within like three seconds. By having to focus on that game, I could do it for a few hours, it could help me block any all stress out of my mind. Well, as I've been saying to you, that's distraction. You know, regardless of what you distract yourself with, I'm distracting myself with standup comedy.

If I'm standing there and I'm trying to entertain you, then I'm not thinking about, oh my God, what did I do? Or did I offend somebody? Or am I going to get sick? Or what's going to happen tomorrow? Or nobody's going to, in the moment, I'm only thinking about playing that game. I feel like life is a game.

And if you could distract yourself with your game of life, then you can get away from whatever it is, these pitfalls that we- Woody Allen was saying, I'm sorry, I was doing a Woody Allen interview. We're talking about how films, you know, if he's, as long as he's working on a film, he's not thinking about the universe

and the meaninglessness of life. Which are what his films are about. I don't know how that works. That's the narrative of every movie and show he's ever done. So I don't know how that takes his mind off of that. But we all do the same thing. You all want to kind of ignore and find something to fill that void, that dark void that we all have.

Some of us have a deeper, darker pit of darkness than others. And the funny thing is, you know, we've all been kind of labeled in the world of comedy. You know, every comedian kind of has created that persona of having a, you know, a fucked up childhood and just in bad relationships. But I think that that's just emblematic of humanity. I think most relationships don't work for the majority of people and people have had really rough lives. And it doesn't have to be in your estimation rough. It's just how they coped with

whatever happened in their lives. That seems to be your strong suit. If mental wellness is not your strong suit, it seems like family life is your strong suit, at least from what I can see. You've been married to one woman for 39 years, which is unusual, I think. 40. We're going into 41. But time flies when you're having fun. I've been really lucky. She's an amazing lady who deserves so much, but now in lockdown, she's not so thrilled with me. We had our 40th anniversary in lockdown. She's talking about

maybe not being the 41st. I said, you want to redo our vows? She said, yes. Mine's enough already. You're a grandfather too, I think. Yes, I am. I've got two grandkids and the apples didn't fall too far from the tree

as far as my children who are just as neurotic as me. So I haven't been able to see them in person. So every day I go over and I climb a tree and I have to look in a window and then they come to the window and see their papa in a tree,

which is good for me, but for them, I think it's a little traumatizing. That's not a great image to have. Do you think that stuff is genetic? I do think some of it is genetic. I really do. I'm not a doctor, but I do think that, you know... You literally played one on television.

Oh, yeah. Oh, I sent elsewhere, right? I did. I did. For six years, I. Oh, I sang elsewhere, right? I did. I did. For six years, I started out with Denzel Washington and other illustrious people

were on the show. We were all kids together. I've been around a long time. See, Dan, I'm a lot older than you. Well, you've been famous a long time, but you started very young.

I mean, saying elsewhere, you were, I guess, in your 20s, I assume, at the time. I was in my 20s. The first time on stage, I was 23. That was actually my first time on stage. I was 23. That's actually my first time on stage.

I was 23. We'll see. But you know, it's been rough in 2005. I was about to leave. I mean, I wasn't selling hard tickets and I was auditioning for, you know, five lines and under. And I was in, and then I got a call

to be a game show host, you know, and I hung up the phone because at that time, I don't know if you can put yourself at that time in 2005, no comedians were doing games. Comedians were, that was the game show host was the punchline. Before 2005, the last comedian that had done a game with any success was Groucho Marx, who did You Bet Your Life, you know, in the 50s. And I was so scared, and they talked me into doing it, and it turned out to be the biggest success of my life, and ended up filling the clubs and theaters and casinos again for stand-up comedy. But I had lost that by 2005.

That's an amazing career. In 97, I think it was, we were filling up theaters up in Boston. In 97, yeah, but I'm talking about, you know, eight, eight years later. That's a long time. What's what's going on. What's what's what's on the, on the plate next for Howie Mandel, if anything. Doing AGT, you know, and we're in the midst of doing it, we're doing it.

We're finding new ways to do it and it's airing. I'm also producing, you know, I produce things that are me. I have a show that I'm not on camera. I like doing that too. I like behind the scenes. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Kirby Jenner. Do you know Kirby Jenner? Do you know what that is? No.

If you go on Instagram and you look, he's a comedian. But he goes by Kirby Jenner and he plays the twin of Kendall. And they embraced him. And I took it to, to Chris and Kendall and that we put it together with McG, who's a big film director. And we sold the show to Quibi. It's probably their most downloaded show, but it's on Quibi.

It's, it's called Kirby Jenner. Go check it out on Instagram. He's really funny. And it's kind of like, he's kind of like zealot, you know, because he,

he, they, he Photoshop's himself in video and in stills into actual scenes from keeping up with the Kardashians and it's a really funny he's really funny oh by the way you also have a solo special called how I present how I Mandela at the Howie Mandela comedy club I have my own comedy club and I have other shows that we're doing that are on the air. I'm partners with the Doing Things people. I don't know if you are Instagram animals doing things.

I do their Nat Geo show. I produce that. I'm doing something with people doing things. You know, they do morons doing things and babies doing things. I'm doing a show with another group. I like taking IP and exploiting IP. You know, I come from, before I did this,

and I never stopped, I come from retail. You know, I'm a Jew that sold carpet and I don't feel like I'm doing anything different today. I also hear you're in the real estate game. I am. I love real estate. I did real estate. I love playing real life Monopoly. And I've been doing that real estate. I did real estate. I love the, you know, playing real life

monopoly. And I've been doing that. Well, I was always afraid, you know, when I did the Young Comedian special and I started getting some money, I thought they're going to find out that I have nothing to offer. And so I started investing and figuring out that made more, that game makes more sense to me than our game. And I was always afraid, you know, this is just going to go by the wayside tomorrow. I remember so many funny people that I started out with. You must know a million of them that we started out with. And they're brilliant. And we don't hear from them again.

They just went away. And they just ended. I've always been waiting for tomorrow just to be the end. So I just wanted to give myself a safety net. You know, I remember them today. And I don't, for the life of me, can't tell you why they're not prevalent, why they're not being quoted, why they're not in it. Howie, I think you have to go.

I do have to go. I'm going to do a show right now live on Twitch. Okay. Well, thank you so much for... This is fantastic. I didn't really... I'd never really talked to you before, and I found you to be incredibly intelligent

and interesting. I'm very happy to... Well, sometimes you're wrong, you know. Not everything works out the way we hope it did. I hope to see you again, you know, when all this is over and you're... I can't wait. I'll give you a text.

Maybe we can have a... Let's hang out. We'll go hang out at the Comedy Cellar for some hummus and humor. Now I'm looking forward to it now that I know you a little bit. I hope we do that soon. Thank you. And I listen to you guys almost every day. So I'm a big fan of the club.

I'm a big fan of the show. And I'm a big fan of everybody that's on your show. And Dan, you know I love you, buddy. Okay, great to meet you. God bless. Bye-bye. Bye. Thank you.

Bye, Peril. Podcast at ComedyCellar.com. Comments, suggestions, what you like, what you don't like. And we'll see you on the next show, which we're taping now, but you'll hear in a week. Thank you.