The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - "I Wouldn't Even Talk to a Jew": Inside the Mind of Lucas Gage - Former Antisemite

Episode Date: August 14, 2026

Lucas Gage (www.Lucasgage.com X.com/lucasgagex) spent 14 years as one of the loudest antisemites on the internet - a Marine who came home from Iraq, read Mein Kampf, and became a true believer. Then he walked away.What did he believed, and why? What snapped him out of it? And what does it tell us about Tucker, Candace, Fuentes and the rest? Are they believers, grifters, or a bit of both? 0:00 The rise and fall of a viral antisemite 7:18 What radicalized him: Iraq, Mein Kampf, and the ADL 16:35 Tucker, Candace, Fuentes: dog whistles or grifters? 23:15 "Afraid to give my name" - and why Jews succeed anyway 36:54 9/11, October 7, and Charlie Kirk: the conspiracy machine 48:07 Patriotism and the "dual loyalty" smear 57:40 Should America stay majority white? The final debate SS

Hey, this is live from the table, the official podcast of the World Famous Comedy Seller. Available wherever you get your podcasts, and in particular on YouTube. This is Dan Matterman here with Nome Dorman, owner of the World Famous Comedy Seller. He's coming at us. We're actually all virtual today on Zoom. Noam is at his summer estate in Maine. Oh, brother, Dan. Okay, go ahead.

And we have with us. I'm not sure where he is, but he's not in studio, but none of us are. Lucas Gage is with us. He is an author, a war veteran. Thank you for your service. He's also a former JQ activist. We'll get into what precisely that is. And welcome Lucas to our show.

Welcome to be here. Welcome, Mr. Gage. So, okay, so I want to get this exactly. right because you were pitched to me by somebody who knows you, who I'm, you know, communicate with through Twitter. And he pitched me as a guy who's kind of seen the light on anti-Semitism. And I've done some research into it and there's some articles, but these articles could be exaggerated, not fair to you. I have no idea. So is that the right angle? Is that who you are? Well, I was a pretty big influencer in what I call it's called the JQ movement.

The JQ stands for a Jewish question, right? So what do we do with the Jews? Blah, but there's a question throughout centuries. And I was a very big influence. I was super viral when I had a blue check mark. I annoyed Elon and everyone else. I had to get kicked away for a few months, nine months total. Yeah, I built up this really crazy rhetoric over time.

I did this drill instructor schick, you know, where I, for 14 years. I was in this thing. 11 of those years I was calm. But then in the last three years, like, let me try this like Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan vulgarity thing. And it worked. And I literally went from like 24,000 followers to like 300,000 something. And of course, the, you know, the Gaza thing really blew that up and other activist things

online. So I went through it all. And, you know, to get to the point, eventually I started seeing the people I was working with weren't really good people either. So if I'm fighting the Jews for being evil, then why am I working with? with these other people who are not Jews who are lying, doing crypto scams, frauds are not even who say they are. So over time, I realized the hypocrisy. And I, too, was being hypocrite associating with these people. So that's pretty the gist of why I left of everything. And of course,

learning that, you know, when I became an anti-Semite, because I started calling myself one. So remember, 14 years of activism, I never called myself one until the last three years. And I kept pushing and pushing and doing all these theatrics and using, like, horrific language, the humanization of Jewish people, calling them demons and all this other stuff, just to push the limits of free speech. And also because I was mad, because, again, seeing what was going on in Gaza. I cut the Israeli flag. I burned the Talmud book, not the whole real book, just like this thing was sent to me. Because I was getting swatted. So some Israelis were swatting my house 16 times in a row. That pissed me off, death threats and all this other stuff. So it became like this war between me and these people. And it just kept escalating.

And yeah, so essentially I realized I'm going way too. far. I said some extreme things. And just the whole picture together was poisonous for me. And I said, what are we really doing here? What is this online activism actually accomplishing? And so I started to just look into things. And the person who connected us, he wrote an article about 9-11 dancing Israelis, because again, the Jews did that. The Jews did everything, right? So I'd re-evaluate my views and look at things. And I started realizing the things I learned, not all of those things were true. And when I became an anti-Semite, I had. I was a became the type where Jews are genetically the same. So it's not like you can convert Christianity

and now you're okay. I became like one of the national socialists, although I wasn't a Nazi like that, I had the same ideology, racial determinism. So if you're a left-wing Jew or right-wing Jew, you're just a Jew. Catholic Jew, atheist Jew, Jewish Jew, didn't matter who you were, right? Because no matter what, it couldn't escape. So that kind of anti-Semitism is old school, the Nazi type. And of course, when I saw my own fellow Gentiles act, the same, like, well, it's not genetic because why are they acting that way? And that just, I'm

so let's take a step by step. I feel like I'm talking to the son of Hamas. So, so, you know, from you know, obviously, Dan and I are Jewish. And I find this so fascinating. One, like, kind of dumb thing I'll say is like, when you

hear all these people talk about us, like, like, it's so far removed from our reality. we say, well, what's going on there? Like, what's going on in, like, do they mean it? Do they believe it? Is there some cynicism?

So before we get to how you had your change of heart, and, you know, listen, I appreciate you coming on, and I think that you were forced for good at this point. So, you know, I'm just going to just give the listeners just a taste of where you were at, things like you're calling Jews, the Skulls, of humanity and no matter what happens

everyone knows the Jews run everything anything they do to denies will cover up. We'll only prove this fact. Unfalsifiability. Denials approved. What you call an anti-Semite what you call anti-Semitism is simply a healthy reaction to negative Jewish behavior. Five thousand years

and you still haven't learned this yet. Jews can't stand it when you even make peace with them. Why can't I burn the Talmud? It's not even the real version. It's English. know. Whatever. It's, you know, the real, the real shit, right?

The real shit. You deny the Holocaust, things outright. So when you're in the midst of that world, it's like a fever. Like you really, you believe every aspect. It's not like cynical. It's not a game, right? Everybody really believes this stuff in that world? I think, well, I became a true believer.

So when I look at other people I was working around with, they had Jewish managers, Jewish cameramen, Jewish thumbnail people, business partners. They were doing casinos that are, I'm like, what kind of anti-Semite? I became like a real one. I wouldn't even talk to a Jew. Other than my doctor, she's very nice. But my activism was online. I never went in public. I live in brick New Jersey, which is by Lakewood, which is all Jewish people.

So I go to Costco. I see a Jewish family. Hey, how you doing, sir? Go ahead. I never was out in public going crazy like these other freaks. I kept it online where the battlefield was acceptable, right? But I was a true believer where I wouldn't even talk to Jews like that. You know, I lost Jewish friends.

I offended everybody. But I believed it. And again, my version was genetic-based. So it didn't matter what religion or if you were a liberal, conservative. So it's like you're just a Jew and you shouldn't be around here. Like, I didn't want to hurt you, but I wanted my freedom. You see what I mean? What radicalized you?

Well, so going back to my service, I went to Iraq. that's that's my Marine Corps uniform two times who pushed us into the Iraq war the neocons right most of them are Jewish unfortunately right and they and I looked into after I got in the Iraq war it was based on lies oh these neocons lied to us right now they're not all Jewish but a lot of them were I said well if the Jews are lying to us who hates the Jews the most Hitler let me look what Hitler said I read mine comf and he's listing everything what the Jews control the media academia they're all communists obviously you're not I don't know if you are not but that's not the point. And all of his critiques about Jews at the time, I was like, wow, I can't believe it because

I would Google it. Do they really control the media? Oh, my God. They own Google. They own, you know, so it seemed to be that he was telling the truth. I said, oh, my God. And when I said something about it, suddenly the ADL and SPLC and all these Jewish organizations attacked me, reinforcing that they have this power, which I had no idea they had at all. So that's kind of what got me into this. And then this whole like, a great replacement thing, that's what really push me like white people are going extinct or whatever and jews are opening the borders and george sorrows and barbis specter and all this combined so it was really going to iraq based on lies coming back to find out jews run a lot of stuff and then going okay well we got to deal with this thing

and then talking about it and getting attacked reinforced that belief and uh that that was it for me by the way we did a show i'll send you the email app the link after with the guy who wrote book um uh who i think is the most scholarly book on the run up to the ira Iraq war and he's not Jewish, the guy who wrote it. And to the extent that you still believe that narrative, which many, there's, you know, there's some truths of the narrative and many people think there's more or less to it. I didn't have a strong opinion on that until I read this book and I realized, no, actually Cheney and Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice and and very Tony Blair. And there were all sorts of people and, and neocons.

Yes, yes. Well, yeah, there's always special interest. No, there's always special interest, right. Yeah, yeah. And then it also came out. I didn't know this that Ariel Sharon had advised against the Iraq war, but it doesn't matter. We can presume with the take of argument that it was the neocons. And then you and you and you give all this description of all these, it's true, all these influential Jews, wherever you turn is a fucking influential Jew, right? Do you have a theory to explain that now in your own mind that you're comfortable with, which doesn't lead you to be anti-Semitic. Yeah, so, you know, I talked to many Jewish people,

and what I'd noticed was that we, in the anti-Semite world, you give all the bad credit to Jews, communism, this, that, etc. But you forget all the good things they've done. For example, Jonathan Salk invented the polio vaccine, billions of lives saved. Well, no, he didn't really, he was trying to poison us. Or Einstein. No, no, he stole everything.

So there's no good credit. So when I talk to Jewish people, Or so much medical technology. Right, yeah. But it's the Kilda Goy. I'm not you understand. It's to kill you. Right.

So the thing is, when you're an anti-Semit like that, nothing good that the Jews do is for us or that it's just the cover for the bad Jews. It's like flatter thinking. Like anything NASA gives you, it proves it's a cover-up. So similarly, anything Jews have done good, whatever, they do so much bad, though. And then you forget, for example, Karl Marx, was a Jew. But his partner was Frederick Engels, who was a Gentile. So every time there's a Jew somewhere, there's also a Gentile next to him. And this goes back to your, because you believe

the genetics were the, with the primal, the, because Marx actually, I don't think, considered himself Jew, right? But he was a Jew, but he was a Jew, right? Yeah. Well, sometimes anti-Semites give everyone, like Trotsky was a quarter and they know, he was Jewish or Stalin was a Jew when he wasn't so when it was a quarter i think trotsky was a full on but in any case yeah but i'm a jew now because i'm talking to you this that's how it works you understand well well welcome to the club right so yeah you have this mindset where everything's jewish and then they start assigning things that jews didn't create and you blame them for that so yeah the genetic factor thing is this like i said you know yeah there's some jewish genes of course turns out i'm italian so i was born in italy a lot of the

Jews share similar genes with us in the South, right? So sometimes a Jew can look Italian, Italian, to look Jewish, which is kind of funny. And then went up to Germany, they're Ashkenazi and all that stuff. But then a lot of Jews are not, well, I think 85% of the population of Jews are Ashkenazim while others are not. But the point is, there are mixed people with the Middle Eastern and the European genetics. So they're a mixed group anyway. I think it's closer to 50-50, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Yeah, whatever the case is. So the point is, what I realize is that I said to myself, what are the behaviors that Jews do that know, other groups do. Do the Jews

go in a cocoon or something every Wednesday? No, there's no, they didn't invent stealing, they didn't invent killing, war, lying. But when you think about Jewish behavior, you call it Jewish behavior, but it's not Jewish behavior. It's just bad behavior that other people also do. So you were right. You were right, 70 to 80 percent.

Continue. So the point is you could argue that, okay, maybe some groups have genetic propensities to do certain behaviors in general. Maybe you could argue that. Like, I know some of the Jewish people have these diseases that come up more like Thai sacks and things like this because there was like a bottleneck of breeding in europe there was a very like small group of Jews 350 Jews that had to survive in this

area and they had to pretty much in their breed in the sense and that raises like Thai sacks and other issues but does that increase criminality or something I mean this is the thing so you try to work with when you come from that genetic deterministic world you know black crime is because of genes and white this and Chinese that and Indian so you start looking at things genetic determinism and you ignore the individuals who are not doing those things. And you start seeing patterns. And again, these things exist. But then what are you assigning those patterns to and why are they happening?

So I want to tell you something. And then I'm going to ask you some more questions. But what you said reminds me of something. So, you know, Charles Murray, the guy who wrote the bell curve and he believes that in different IQs and different races, he believes blacks are less intelligent. And, you know, I. I have never, going back to before Charles Murray ever wrote anything, the idea that different gene pools, not races,

but different gene pools would have different intelligences and things like that. That all seemed pretty easy to accept. But what I came to believe about Charles Murray, and you're kind of making me think that I was right, is that these things, they poison the mind. completely such that. So like if you take Charles Murray's claim that there's a difference in the average IQ

between races, but that 85% are basically the same. That's his like, that's the worst thing he says, right? Immediately people see that and they claim to understand that yeah, I can't draw a conclusion about somebody that as soon as they see somebody that fits that disposition of what the race, they say, aha, you see he's black, aha, you see he's Jewish.

The media doesn't help, by the way. The media doesn't help other than highlight all the bad people in the world. Yeah. So I this is not, I mean, I don't know where you were. I assume you didn't like blacks either, but this is so poisonous, this line of thinking. Anyway, you know. Yeah. I'd say you live in New Jersey.

Is that where you grew up in that area? Yeah, so I was born in Italy came here when I was to. and I've lived in New Jersey my whole life. So I'm 42 now. So 40 years in New Jersey. So you grew up with a lot of ethnic diversity, I assume. And so what were your thoughts growing up on the different types of people that you interacted with? Nothing.

See, I grew up a Catholic. So I didn't even know what race was. And in fact, if you had a last, if your last name and they would avow, I thought maybe you're Italian, right? So I didn't know anything about race or any. I didn't even know what a Jew was. I thought Jews were just people didn't believe in Jesus. And then Muslims went another step.

That's it. So I didn't really look into it. And living in New Jersey, a lot of Jewish friends, of course. But they all mixed. They weren't like with the rabbis with the Bayotte and the Yamika. They were just regular Jews who married into Gentile families. And that was it. So my whole life had Jewish friends.

And never had a problem with them. It was just when I got racially aware. They started learning about race and IQ and the differences between us. And my race is going extinct because of immigration and the Jews are behind it and all this other stuff. that's when I got radicalized. Let me ask you this. And then we should go through what you believe or don't believe now. So when the people, so for instance, you use the word psychopathy in one of your tweets or something.

And then, you know, where have I heard that word before? Oh, Darryl Cooper uses that word. And you talk about Jewish porn being involved in porn. I say, where do I hear that? Oh, Tucker Carlson talks about Jews being involved in porn. And it seems to me that much more than we people who are not in the know realize, these guys play on the themes that they know and the words and the vocabulary that they know will reverberate with the community, with this white supremacist anti-Semitic Jewish community. So even though they'll deny that they're anti-Semites, it's with a kind of wink that you guys can hear. and you know that they're on your side.

Is that wrong? Am I going too far with that? I would say that they are using these dog whistles to rile up those types of people to say, hey, we're on your side, probably to subvert the side and direct it somewhere else. I don't know their agenda. But yeah, there's absolutely like, well, you know who runs the porn star? You know what I mean? They do that a lot, actually.

Because they see like these right-wing young people going that way. Well, let's capture them. You see that's what I think they're doing. So in that community, is it taken for granted that Tucker is an ally, that Daryl Cooper is an ally or no? No, I don't think so. I think they're trying to redirect that movement around. You know what I mean? I think they're trying to, like take this, for example, like Nick Fuentes.

He's got the griper's. I'm sure you heard of him. Yeah, of course. I think they're trying to take him out. So if they could take his people away from him, like, oh, Tucker will handle it. I think that's what they're trying to do. It seems to me that's what I would think they're doing. or just riding the wave.

A lot of these people like Tucker and Candace and all that, they're not really, I think they're just doing it for themselves. I mean, we know Candace is a narcissist. She's riding this Charlie Kirk assassination all the way, still going, and it's just disgusting to sea. So there's also another thing. When I got into the movement 14 years ago, there was no money.

Zero. There was nothing. Now you can monetize yourself and go on rumble and get super chats and be anti-Semitic. And now you're making some money, right? So a lot of people are doing this. they're grifters. There are people who are not even white pretending to be white supremacists, literally dealing blackjack at a Jewish casino. I mean, what's going on here? It's a joke, you know? So someone like me, he was an OG who got in with no money, and I start seeing it

getting monetized and all these people are jumping into it. And they got crazy conspiracies. I mean, look, anti-Semitism is so stupid. They're blaming Jews for things that aren't even possible, like controlling the weather and other insane things. So it's just getting to the point where anyone can jump into this big tent of anti-Semitism, which is we call low IQ anti-Semitism. Like, again, Charlie Kirk was killed by Israel. That's the dumbest thing you can think of, but there are people pushing it with like no evidence at all. And because everyone else is jumping in on this, they don't have the critical thinking skills.

They eat it up without any evidence. So that's the kind of thing that's happening now. So tell me what is your read on Tucker Carlson. So for instance, Tucker Carlson has said, well, everybody knows that Charlie Kirk was killed because his position changed on Israel. And then, you know, he'll say kind things about Candice Owens. And Candice Owens is saying that kind of almost saying the kind of stuff that you were saying. She's saying that Jews kill Christian babies at Passover and, you know, all kinds of outrageous stuff.

What, what are they just grifters? Like, what's your opinion on them? You must have some insight. I think so. I think they're riding this wave. I think it's a very popular wave because it's so, because after October 7th, this is where it all blew up, literally.

After October 7th, you know, what I was doing was amplified a lot more because people are seeing what's going on in Gaza, people are blowing up, it's horrible, so everyone's freaking out. I exploded because I was doing these rage, you know, these rants and I was using all this language. I'll tell you, don't be scared about being called an anti-Semite.

And these other people realize this, and they go, oh, let me jump in on that too. So I think Candace and all these other people, I mean, Tucker is probably some kind of CIA asset or mercenary type who works with different groups. I don't know who he is. But he's a little strange there. Candice is clearly grifting off Charlie Kirk's death. That's my opinion. I mean, Tucker is rich.

Tucker is rich. You don't need the money. Right. So I don't know what's going on these people. But I believe that they're trying to counteract Nick Fuentes. I think that's what they're trying to do because Nick has been growing for a long time steadily. And the griper movement, I'm sure you heard of it. poses a threat. And I think that, well, let's take them out. Let's steal some talking points and

let's guide people this way to this other movement that Tucker and them are doing. And that's my assessment of the situation, which means that they don't believe what they're saying. They're just using the dog whistles, I think. Or they're, I mean, so Candace also believes that McCrone's wife is a man and Tucker also believes that the CIA is studying alien weapon systems and that there's demons who live under the sea. And so, you know, they're not limited in their craziness. to anti-Semitism, although I think they all all increase their velocity of their anti-Semitism because that's what sells the most. But they also show signs of being nutty outside that.

Could they be mentally ill? I think they're just going to the extreme to get more content, honestly. I don't think they believe half the things they say, and they're probably not even anti-Semitic, is what I'm saying. That's what I think. I think they're just using the dog whistles to guide people their way and move it to another place where they can control that and profit off these younger generations who are anti-Israel and are becoming anti-Semitic is what I'm saying.

Do you think Nick is also just using this for for clicks and money or he's a true believer? No, I think Nick, from what I know, I'm just watching him, he's been very consistent over the years. He's been doing it for like over a decade. And he's, I don't think he's an anti-Semite, like he hates Jews, but he does. critique Jewish power structures like A-PAC and Israel and things like this. So I know he doesn't hate Jews or want to hurt Jews. He's actually said this many times. So I don't think he's an anti-Semi essentialist like I was like you physically are evil and that's it. I'm sure he'd want Jews to convert

or he said he didn't want to hurt them. So I don't think he's like that. The problem is that, you know, from my point of view, I don't know if I can speak for Dan, you know, whether he wants to hurt Jews or not, and I believe he probably doesn't. if you care about your fellow Americans who are Jewish, then why do you want to create an atmosphere for them in their country? He doesn't really, what the answer is, he doesn't really consider the Jews, Americans, where it becomes awkward for them to be openly Jewish,

to say that they're Jewish, to live as a Jew, even if nobody's going to hurt them, you have a cloud over you in some, some way. And I mean, this is horrifying to me. We're living through it now. I have thoughts now. I'm in Maine for the summer and everybody here's a nice estate in the union. But people I don't know and it's, you know, there's not a lot of Jews around here. And I have to give my name for something, like for a to-go order or just under receipt, you know. And for the first time in my 64 years, I'm awkward about giving

my obviously Hebrew name and you know that's a very very very big thing you might not appreciate it maybe you can't appreciate it

like just to accomplish that to a group of Americans that they're afraid to give their name it reminds me of what my father used to tell me when he was a kid when the Jews were getting nose jobs you know try to trying to conceal who they are. So like, okay, Nick, like, unless you have some, Nick Fuentes, unless you have some actual goal, some legislation you want, something you want to accomplish here is if your only goal

is to make the Jews feel horrible and ostracize them, and then hope, cross your fingers and hope nobody, even though you don't want to hurt them, let's hope nobody else hurts them, right? You can't, you can only spread so much ugliness before somebody does hurt somebody. We obviously people being hurt. I mean, do they follow these things through in the way I'm describing them? I guess what I'm saying is I'm talking too much. He can say he doesn't want Jews to be hurt. He can say he doesn't want to hurt Jews.

But he's a very smart person. And he must know he is hurting them in some way. And he is also creating an atmosphere where others might hurt them worse. That's what I think. I mean, he's critiqued Jewish power, organized Jew, not individual Jews. I understand he has friends that are Jewish. He's done streams with Jewish people. so I don't I don't want to speak for him but it's a free country like like it's a free

yeah I know I'm saying you know maybe you should have him on here and he'll talk I would love to I would I'm sure invite him then invite him and I'm sure he'll talk to you how you know he's very cordial and his people think he's like a monster like I don't want a mom no he's very very kind and he's very professional so I don't want to speak for him but from what I've seen the shows that I've seen he's against violence he's literally said I want to hurt Jewish people I think they're wonderful. They've done great things for America. He gets attacked. People think he's Jewish and they're attacking him for not being

anti-Semitism. That's how bad anti-Semitism is getting. Someone like him is not enough to these people. That's what I'm trying to tell Jewish people now, you know? Well, he plays that fiddle very, very well. I mean, I would have to admit he's extremely likable in a sense. He's very funny.

Very funny. He's very smart. Can I ask a question? A little question. I'm from Jersey. I'm Italian. raised Catholic. Same thing. And a lot of complaining about, you know, things like race, you know, sexuality. You know, I heard a lot as well growing up, never the genetic part necessarily. But what I noticed is that no one ever talks about what would fix their rage around the issue, like, ever. It's just a lot of complaining.

So like, and even when you see like the pundits now, it's just like, hey, did you hear about X? No one's ever suggesting a way to adjust their life to make it better for them. Did you have any? give any thoughts on that? I think the biggest problem one of the biggest this is what I've been doing lately I said I want to build because I was a super big anti-Semite and I snapped out of it I said you know

we can't be arguing like we got to start talking to each other like building bridges and people are taking this like oh he's betrayed everyone he doesn't want I want to just talk to people because I've been screaming at people for three years how about I sit down and talk to people like I'm doing with you guys and let's find a common ground and let's make sure that we don't end up hurting each other

And I'm very much against censoring people, cancel culture. That's not going to solve it, right? So if you start canceling people, you actually prove that you have this power that you claim you don't have. And then it gets incubated in these areas. And all of a sudden, someone goes, stabs a Jew in New York or someone shoots up a synagogue or a mosque. And so I think we need to have more conversations, cordial conversation between people on any topic without any censorship and honestly talk to each other. Because what do we all really want? We just want to live in peace.

We want to be Americans. we don't want to lose our rights to other countries, demands, and things like this. We want our kids to be safe, and we have enough land here to do it. So I think if we just sit down and talk instead of labeling people things, and even if someone is something, guess what? If I could snap out of it, and I did it by myself, other people could snap out of it too, where we get to this point where we can just talk rather than scream and assume the worst and hate each other. That's my, I think that's what we need right now. So, I mean, there is a reality, which is that anti-Semitism is something which constantly comes back through the ages. And it was suppressed by the revulsion that the West had to the Holocaust,

and America especially has the Holocaust, and the Nazis. Those people are dying off. And it's just that weed is growing back now. and I would bet that it's going to continue to grow. I don't think they're going to round up the Jews in America. I never thought that. It just revert to kind of like a, as I said, like a kind of awkward position as outsiders, not really Americans as Nick Flentis, so it's not quite loyal.

But let me ask you, I made a joke before as a free country. What I meant was that, you know, we Jews, we don't have meetings where we're, we all decide what we're going to do for each other as Jews. We all set out on our own, basically, to make our way in the world. There's a lot of gifted and talented Jews. Most of them in America, you're not one or two generation from penniless. Like, my father was penniless. You know, like this, it's, and they constantly succeed.

I mean, nobody can say otherwise. Even in the countries like Russia, where there, where anti-Semitism was government policy, Jews still rose to very high positions in arts and technology and in academia because they're a lot of gifted Jews. And so that's not going to stop. It's going to continue to aggravate people. So two questions then. First of all, what is your theory of why the Jews continue to be so successful? And B, how do we get America to tolerate?

a group of people who overachieve. So aside from, you know, the culture that Jews have, for example, studying the Torah, making sure that they go to good universities, there's a work ethic there. Now, as an anti-Semite, you would say, no, there is no, it's just nepotism and criminals, which is you're taken away from Carl Sagan and Richard Feynman and all these excellent physicists and doctors and things like this. There's a work ethic there. You can say persistent, no matter what, under any program, no matter what country.

I think there's a culture of work there, okay? And working out, not only that, but also looking out for each other, because you're a persecuted minority, you stick together. You don't need the plot to stand against anti-Semitism, right? If, like, for example, black people, all black people want to be free. They don't have to sit there and go, I want to end slavery in like a special room. They wanted to end it. So when you attack Jews as a monolith, although they're not one, they respond as one. Just like if I started saying bad things about black people, they'll all respond.

Well, why is this guy saying this about me? So Jews have been a persecuted minority throughout history, mostly in Christian lands during the Inquisitions and thing like this. They were secluded in their ghettos and they had to help each other. And that community is making them strong. So for example, you go to Lakewood, there's not a single homeless Jew, not one. Why? Because there's charity. They help each other look out for each other.

So as a minority, I think minorities stick together more. We see this when Indians coming from India right now. They come from India. They start working together, live together. They help each other. They're talking about Hindu phobia. They're talking about we got to get into the media. It's just group survival strategies among a massive people that aren't looking like that.

Now, the Western man has been very individualistic throughout his time. So much so, he'll blow himself up throughout European history. You know, whites had all these countries to themselves. They were killing each other. So when you become so prosperous as Americans were, especially in the 60s and 70s, you start to see they got complacent, like the boomer thing. Oh, we don't care about the kids. Here come Jews and all these other people.

Italians, Irish, et cetera, their minorities, they start succeeding because they're hungry for it. So Jews, I say, as a joke, they have organizations that organize the organizations. Jews are the most organized minority I've ever seen in my life. And that kind of organization will always be an advantage. And they have a certain ethnic code for themselves that they work together and make sure they leave no Jews behind. They have charity. How can they lose?

You see, so I'm giving no. Yeah. Go ahead. No, go ahead, Dan. I just want to say that no one might be the exception, but he does not favor Jews in any way, shape, or form in his business dealings. Right, right. Well, I get it.

No, I'm just saying that. I would go further than that. So it's very interesting what you're saying, because I've heard this stuff before. I'm sure Jews, especially when anti-Semitism is bad, are forces stick together. and of course the more orthodox they are like the Hussis or the Orthodox community, they're, they can't, like they all have to live near the synagogue because you can't drive this.

So of course they're sticking together in a certain way. But I don't think the sticking together explains, you know, Hollywood or, you know, Goldman Sachs or or the various things that the bugaboo is like this is, and I, and, and, growing up Jewish, I never, it never occurred to me that I would have some inside track anywhere because I was Jewish. I think this sticking together thing is overblown. And I think that Israel and its remarkable accomplishments is evidence of something else. And, you know, but I guess we're off the subject but Israel

is accomplishing in the Middle East and one of the wealthiest countries in the world now a major player in AI and every technology in medical technology like you in everything right in everything

intellectual and high tech this is not because they're sticking together this was a very poor country you know 25 30 years ago. So I think it's the other stuff that you're saying. They are, they're talented, whether it's genetic or cultural or some combination. They're organized. I'm saying the Jews who have a plan to do something, they organize. They don't sit around. They're not individualistic as much.

They look after each other. And again, remember, they've been persecuted for millennia. So that persecution is always there in the back in the mind of a Jewish case. But they're going to be a, they're going to be a thorn in the side of people who are not to, spores to say like, oh, good for them. Like, you know, nobody says, oh, look at all those Jews. They're doing great. Well, good for them, you know. Well, listen, if you want a good lawyer, you look for a Jew. I mean, that's just the way it works, right?

But I'll say this, too, a lot of Jews you'll find in media and middleman management jobs. You don't really see a lot of Jews working construction or something. It's kind of like when I, in New Jersey. You do. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, yes, yes. In New Jersey, if I go to a gas station, there's always like an Indian guy.

If I go for a landscaping company, Latinos are working, pizzaeersia, it's an Italian. Well, now there's Mexicans too. But it's almost like when you go to the diner, all Greek people. I feel like every group of people contribute to something. A lot of the Chinese have nail salons, Chinese restaurants, you know. So I'm not saying that's all of that's like a stereotype, but I'm saying I think Jews have always been a middle management kind of job. Even in medieval times, they were made to tax collectors and things like this. So, you know, I think the people of the book tend to be more in that intellectual field, not the hard labor field. And I think that's how it is for Jews even today. So, you know, that's not a bad thing. You're going to see yourselves in science and

philosophy and mathematics and media, et cetera, sports agents. I mean, this is what you guys are good at. Your middlemen, you know, the merchant of Venice, right? You, you guys travel between the world and you do business everywhere. That's just the kind of people. And I don't think it's a bad thing. It's just that when it goes too far, perhaps, that's when it becomes bad or something. Where are you now in all the things you used to believe? Do you believe Israel is behind 9-11? So that right there, I mean, look, I looked into the dancing. Our friend who got us connected, he had a debate with someone who said it was them, and he proved that, demonstrated that the dancing Israelis were nothing.

So I'm like, well, if the dancing Israelis weren't there before knowledge, and then you learned the buildings were not demolished with explosives, they didn't need to be. Well, what really happened? Well, there's only two scenarios. One, the official narrative is true, and it happened through terrorism, and that's the end of it. Or two, if Israel was involved, they didn't do it alone. they did it with the government in Saudi Arabia, etc. I don't know at this point.

I can't disprove an idea that some rogue elements in the is government, my government, Israel, GIP and Saudi, maybe they did this. I don't know. But the dancing Israelis, to me, with the smoking gun, nothing, burger. So now what? And by the way, the Israelis warned us in August about an attack.

And our government was given like 70 warnings and they ignored it. So I don't know what happened anymore, you know? But I do know that when you look at the towers collapsed, they weren't rigged with explosives. They failed to me. I see what you mean, but I don't even take it as seriously as you do because I, so you're saying Bin Laden went to his grave covering for the Israelis? No, no, no, he said he admitted it.

Yeah, but I mean, like, if Israel was involved, bin Laden and his team knew about that. Right. And you'd think, well, they would have blown the whistle on the Jews, given the fact he's tied to a dialysis machine, a dialysis. this machine in, you know, in a cave in Pakistan or something. Like, of course, and in all his papers, like, it's just not true. And by the way, this gets back to what I was saying before, once something gets into your brain, it becomes a worm. And you can't get it out.

Even if you realize, well, yeah, they told me that I realize there's zero evidence to that. Like, I can't come up with one single piece of paper of something that would make a reasonable person think that Israel was in it. in on it, but since so many people are saying it, I can't help it. Maybe they were in on it, you know. We're helpless to this as humans,

I think. Yeah, especially, I believe that for over a decade. So I'm still like right now, I learned about, you know, the Gaza and the Israel-Palestine conflict. Most of it I learned after October 7. Just now I'm opening it up to Israelis. And I've been doing research on the Harbonne massacre in 1929, and Jews were moving into that area in 1881.

And I was like, because on the Palestine side, it's like the Nakba. That's where it started. You know, so it's like, I was only fed a certain half of the narrative. And now I'm doing my due diligence. And people are calling me a shill and a Zionist traitor and whatever. So even with 9-11, like, I can't disprove the argument that Jews were involved or Israel or something. As a philosopher, I have to be skeptical of everything I look into. But I could say that if they didn't do it, okay, I wouldn't be surprised they had nothing to do with it.

So I don't even want to say, like, I know for a fact that's impossible. that would be not honest, actually. But when all the evidence shown, I don't see the point at this point. You're right. Why would they do it? Well, you could argue that, you know, Project in New American Century

has written a year before. The neocons wanted it. Maybe they let it happen. Like Pearl Harbor, they knew it was coming. I don't know. I don't think that there's evidence that we knew Pearl Harbor is coming, though Tucker Carlson says it was.

But, Dan, did you want to say something? Because I don't know, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. so on these conspiracies oh now I went out of my mind is in what are the other oh so this is yeah so

Charlie Kirk yeah I have gotten a lot of people annoyed with me because I was not a fan of Charlie Kirk I was never particularly I never thought he was like some great thing or I never thought oh God I wonder what Charlie Kirk thinks about this or that

and then of course that's His his killing is beyond the tragedy. I didn't want anything like that. God forbid. I mean, God forbid, right?

When somebody dies, something terrible happens, you feel this pressure to say things that you may not really believe. I didn't hate him. I didn't despise him anyway. I just wasn't a fan. But then he,

two times, one time really extensively, he speculated that Israel might have been involved in October 7th. And this to me was so bizarre because, first of all, conspiracy theories are, you know, is very hard to keep. If you have five people who are all similarly motivated to do something conspiratorial and horrible. But they're all on the same side.

Like, they're all true believers. Five of your white supremacist friends, you're all going to do something. You have a, you know, 40% probability that sooner or later one of your friends is not going to let slip, not going to tell. a girl. Somehow it's not going to come out, right? Not going to change his mind. Not going to have a change of heart like you, spill the means, whatever it is. But in Israel, for them to have let it happen, the very people who were killed and the very people whose family were taken hostage, they would have had to have been aware of the stand down order. Right? You follow me? Like, you can't, if you're just telling people to stand down, everybody's affected by this October 7th of the

Israel. So, of course, it's elementary that even if you believe Benjamin Netanyahu was that evil somebody would spill the beans. It's absurd. It's just fucking absurd to think that this could have been a stand-down order and that

every Israelis who was involved in it and knew about it was keeping it quiet three years later. And I'm wondering if if you have some insight in what to make of Charlie Kirk's

readiness to believe such a thing about the Jewish people or the Israelis, however you want to slice it. Well, people say he was killed because he was turning on them. I don't believe that at all. He really much admired them. The October 7th thing, he went off the idea that there was a six hours delay. I just learned the other day that the choppers got there

an hour. It was an immediate response, but the rest took forever, right? The mobilization of everyone. There was an order to the guards at the gate at the border to not patrol from 5 a.m. That's when Amas came. That's the only weird thing. But that's not what he was talking about, though. He said that once they got in, they didn't do anything to stop it, right?

Yeah, yeah. It was a juvenile holiday, and there was a lot of things. Look at 9-11, you know. Things happen. So, you know, you could say it's a massive failure of intelligence, or you could say, well, maybe someone at the top was like, you know what, let's get rid of these left-wing Jews and expand into, you know, there's different arguments for it.

I can't disprove anything. That's why I didn't really answer about 9-11. I mean, if you're skeptical of something, you can be skeptical. But yeah, he was, for some, he actually, I was shocked. He even said that. But, you know, now the internet, there's all these different theories. Like, well, if he heard that it took six hours for the most power, the most secure border to respond, he's going to say, that's weird.

Did he know the Apache showed up within an hour? I don't think he did. I don't know. I don't know what he knew. See what I'm saying? No. Yeah, I know. I see exactly what you're saying, but there's still something about it,

that frustrates me. I'm not saying it's related. That's why it's important to note that Candice Owens also says this stuff about McCrone, that Tucker also says, he's outrageous conspiracies that have nothing to do with the Jews, because it's some combination of

just being conspiratorial in your worldview and B, being more ready to believe certain things about the Jewish people than other people. Like if Charlie Kirk heard that something ridiculously horrible, happened in England, let's say. And the English, for some reason, we hear, you know, preliminarily that there was six hours and there was no response and the English army was caught flat-footed. We would say, what the hell? We need to know what went on there. We would never

assume, oh, maybe they did it on purpose. Maybe it was a false fly. Maybe they'll let it happen. We would assume some horrible incompetence or we'd assume that we're not getting the best information out of what happened in like the fog of war as it were right well but about the jews you know what i'm saying but about the jews it becomes easier right well i don't think it was what about well let him answer for you yeah well the thing is they used the same they said this is our 9-11 and people think bbby was involved in our 9-11 in america so they thought b b bd you understand the connection there yeah yeah b that's what it was so bbb was the prime minister when 9-11 happened to america so that he must have done it again to his own people

right that's what the thought process is because if you never said this is our 9-11 when people thought he did the united states is a 9-11 then there probably would have been no argument at all but but the fact of the matter is the border is so secure that's what's shocking to everybody yeah but it happened it happened in 73 also but go ahead dan go ahead yeah i think that the idea that people i guess they probably are more willing to believe that jews are up to uh you know these conspiracies but they're certainly willing to believe that non-Jews are up to conspiracies, you know, like nobody's saying it was the Jews that that faked the moon landing. And of course, a lot of people thought the U.S. government

blew up the World Trade Center. And we were talking about, we were just talking about, oh, Pearl Harbor. People think that that was a cover-up. So people are certainly willing to believe non-Jews are up to dastardly conspiracy. Well, Dan, I hate to say it, but now people think NASA is Jewish. They think NASA means to deceive in Hebrew and that they fake the moonland. I'm telling you, this is how bad it's getting. You guys don't understand how bad

anti-Semitism is getting. It's spread into NASA. It's flat earth. It's the weather control. It's the COVID vaccines to kill us all. I'm telling you, it's getting so stupid. And what really snapped me out of it was the Charlie Kirk thing. Right.

People started blaming Israel. Before the blood started, stop getting out of his neck. It's still coming out. people go, it's Israel. I'm like, what? Why would Israel do? First of all, that shot was supposed to be a headshot or a chest shot. This guy missed, shot in the, who shoots for the neck, number one, right? So I knew, number two, I heard the, right, that snap from the distance. That's a rifle shot, right? That's it. People started coming out, the guy with the palm gun, the camera did it. Every day, there was a new shooter from a different angle, and it had to be Israel,

no matter what, period. And it's like, what? That's when I started, so you see the Charlie Kirk assassination conspiracy theory being built right and in front of you you got to look back in times at what else is nonsense right so that's what i started doing but yeah but dan i hate to break it to you the jews control nassad too so sorry sorry i would certainly be happy to take credit for for that because they've done amazing things but um yeah i wonder if even even with your change of heart if i could adequately communicate to you just how patriotic the generation of Jews, like my father's generation,

were. I mean, I've said this many times on the show, like, nothing could bring my father to tears more than like some patriotic movie about Abraham Lincoln or something like that. Like, he regarded this so deeply as his people. There's this famous clip of Yasha Haifis, the famous violinist and the,

I guess it's probably the 40s. He would go out every morning and raise the American flag. I mean, you're talking about a people were so profoundly appreciative of this country. And that's part of my, like, what's so painful to me about this period is like, they think we don't, that we're the anti-American ones. And, and, you know, it's not like you have to look that far to find people in this country, citizens and immigrants saying horrible things about America, right? They're not even trying to hide their feelings about this country.

Or even similar. It's very hard to find a Jew who speaks badly about the United States of America. I mean, very hard. And yet, we're the ones now who are suspect. We're suspect because, yes, we're concerned about our people in Israel. Shoot us, you know. We're concerned about our people in Israel. That somehow makes me an un-American.

I want Israel to be safe and happy. Of course I do. But I mean, I just think that if you could measure patriotism, Jews would not be near the bottom of the list and quite possibly be the very top of the list in terms of ethnicities, patriotic ethnicities. Well, two things. So one, I learned a few weeks ago about Heim Solomon.

This was a Jewish guy who loaned. George Washington, the amount of money that's got the war, enough money to win the war. Without this loan, it would have been finished. I didn't even know this guy existed, see? And to talk about the dual loyalty thing. So, yeah, there are a lot of Jews in America that are super Israel, and they're the ones that are, you know, a lot of influence, and they're obviously anti-Zionist Jews as well. But that's where the dual loyalty thing comes from.

Like, you do care about Jews in Israel, even if you don't agree with the government, You don't want your fellow Jews to die in some slaughter or something like this. Of course. Of course I do. So the problem is, this is what I've seen over the years. A lot of Jews in America have usually, they've been Democrats. 70% of them are Democrats. So it's open borders and amnesty.

And so from the white nationalist perspective, oh, Jews are our enemies because they're trying to wipe us out. They're trying to make our country darker and lose our, you know, Americans become a white, Americans become a minority. and if that happens, we'll turn into Mexico 2.0. So how can they be loyal to us? So you have the George Soros type of Jews that open society. Then you have the Zionist Jews who want us to go fight these wars in the Middle East.

And that's where that issue comes from. But, you know, like I said, with the Zionist Jews, they're very proud of Israel, which again, you know, you might, like I have family in Italy, but I don't really talk about Italy. But Italy is not threatened, you know. Right, right. And also, you guys have a history of a lot of persecution. So I understand that you want your your, your brethren. over there to be safe, right? But yeah, going back to the idea that Jews are unloyal, I mean,

that's just another thing that this has been blowing up ever since Zionism has been more popularized. And here's the thing, though, people don't understand this. There are more Christian Zionists than Jews on Earth, right? Like 30 million Christian Zionists. They're the ones who like love APAC. They're giving them money. They want, they have their own sick, like, eschatology. Well, we got to get the Jews to Israel so the apocalypse happens. That's pretty weird. So, you know, that's the thing about Gentiles, my fellow Gentiles. You know, I would always say the Jews have no reflection. They don't know what they're doing wrong.

But then I look at my own fellow, well, wait a minute. You guys, you guys support exactly what they support. There are a lot of, they say the Jews in high ass open the borders. Catholic Church, there's dozens of organizations from different religions that do it. It's not just the Jews, right? So it's really liberalism, leftism, and then there's different other, you know, social, whatever the case. And people need to start realizing it's. It's a war between values.

Okay, that's really what it comes down to. So for me, I mean, look, there's a, there's a, there's a Jewish veterans organization in Trenton. I didn't even, you know, like there's, people say Jews never fight wars. That's not true, obviously. There's not a lot of them, of course, compared to the Gentile population, but they had fought in wars. There's a Dreyfus affair.

I'm sure you heard about that. This Jewish officer got in trouble for being unloyal or something when he was really loyal. And it's just like, yeah, I understand when you guys are. coming from where there's this mentality about Jews being devious and duplicitous and not loyal. And it's not the case. But there are these types that are, it seems to me, they're more loyal to another country than America. There are those types.

But that's the generalization people make once they see a pattern. You see what I mean. Yeah, I see what you mean. But I have to say, I've not known Jews that were more. I mean, you know, just the whole question of loyalty is weird. Like, am I more loyal to, do I, am I not loyal to one child? if I love another child. Like loyalty is only a dicey issue

when you have to choose a side and the sides are opposed to each other in some way or there's a severe conflict of interest between them. You know, and I mean, look, like you could spell out a scenario. What happens if America becomes deeply anti-Semitic? And, you know, like, what do I do? Yeah, anything could happen in the future

that might force me, but that's already kind of, of absurd to me. It never occurred to me no matter how concerned I've been with Israel in my life because my grandparents were there, my father was from there. It never even occurred to me.

I'm obviously an American. I'm a fucking American through and through 100%. And I'm concerned that Israel is okay. There was never an issue, a voting issue, where I felt like taking Israel's side here to the detriment of

of my country. It's just it's like it's making something out of nothing. I mean, maybe whatever. Dan, you have well, Alan Dershowitz. You're a Jew. Yeah. I mean You're a Jew. What don't you tell? Alan Dershowitz would say, well, if somebody

asked me if America and Israel went to war, who would you side with? And he said, I would side with the country I thought was in the right. And I think that's a reasonable answer. If America went to war against Israel without I would say the same thing. We're a war with Iran now

and Americans are not siding with our country in Iran. Like, I mean, it's like, come on now. You're just looking for something. You can create difficult hypothetical cases where any human might find their loyalties tested. I mean, we wish that maybe the Germans, more Germans had been, quote unquote, disloyal Germans and not gotten aboard

what the Nazis were doing, right? It's not like anything should be my, country right or wrong or my ethnicity right or wrong. But there has not been an issue with Jewish loyalty to this country. There are issues with Americans of various stripes being loyal to America. I yeah, we had Jonathan Pollard. God damn that cock sucker. Yeah, he was one of those not good ones. Oh my God. But he paid a lot of damage. Yeah, but he went to jail. He didn't get away with it. 30 years in prison, right? So no excuse. Right. I mean, that doesn't And it's, right. And so there's like the Epstein thing, right? People say, I was a masad. He didn't

even like Israel. You know what I mean? He had his own thing going. He was, I don't know exactly. And that's another thing. They took Epstein and they made all sorts of conspiracies, drinking children's blood. They're eating babies out of beef jerky. Like, this is how stupid it's getting. And people actually think of it. They don't just think, okay, he's a guy who's a Jew who had this like, you know, honeypot for himself and his buddies. Apparently he worked with the Rothschild or something, but he didn't like Israel. Who knows exactly? But like once you hear anything like this, you just automatically assume Assad agent. End a story.

That's it, you know? So the issue, again, is there's once you have this, once you have these goggles on, these anti-Semitic goggles, everything fits perfectly. You see only the Jews and everything they do wrong. You don't see the ones who oppose it. You don't see the ones doing right. And that's what I'm trying to break people out of, right? Because again, I was there, guys.

I was at the worst possible form of anti-Semitism. Never wanted to hurt anybody. I mean, if you saw me ranting, you thought I would. But I never wanted to hurt anyone, and I just wanted to just break free from Jewish supremacy. Okay, that's what the argument was. But how is it possible that these people have any influence, if not for the other people working with? The Gentiles, too. So it takes two-to-tangle type of thing.

And for me, it's about self-reflection and having conversations. That's how we solve all these problems. Otherwise, we're going to make the worst assumptions, and people are going to get, eventually they're going to get hurt when the more dumb people become. anti-Semitic and the tent gets bigger, the more likely someone's going to go do something crazy. That's what I think. Can I ask Lucas if you still, or if you believe that America should maintain its white majority? I believe so because the people who found a country, it's going to maintain that culture that was founded. So for example, if you imagine China becoming 30% Chinese and 70% African, what would happen to China?

what happened to the holidays, the culture, the language, the food. I do believe demographics are destiny. So, like, for Israel, let's imagine Israel becomes 80% Arab. What happens? So America, you could say it's a little different story because it's always been a nation of immigrants, but it was founded by literal white supremacists. Let's be honest, the own slaves.

Now, I am an immigrant from Italy. So my family came here, my great-grandfather, Vincenzo Gallardi. They chopped his name in half in the Marine Corps. Now it's Gage. He served in the military as a Marine. My grandfather came. He lived in Kansas. He went back to Italy, came back, Syracuse University, a professor.

He became a major in the U.S. Air Force. He served in the Korean War. And so I have many generations here of warriors. But America, since the 60s, was 90%. If it becomes a minority, why? I think it's going to change everything. I don't think that's a good change for anybody. Because a lot of people who are coming from these other countries

are leaving their countries because they're not like America. They're not founded by white European stock. And that's just the reality. So if that's racist, then I don't have to say. But I don't think any country, if you remove the founding stock of a country, it will no longer be that country. Just like I gave an example for China and Israel. So I don't think any Israeli wants to be a minority in their country. I don't think so.

So, you know, if Americans, if white Americans become 30%, what's going to look like? I don't think it's going to look like America today. You don't guys agree with that? I think these are very, very hard questions. I did a rant about this last week where you find yourself in bed with people who approach an issue from a different point of view, what you might consider an ugly point of view, but you find that you have some common ground with them, and it's awkward. So my, if I'm being brutally honest, I have to recognize that as a Jew, when America was, you know, 85% Christian and 88% white, and we Jews, we would say it's a Christian country and we knew, we knew the score. And we couldn't be more appreciative, as I've already explained. because because the stats are obvious.

But when a country becomes 10% that, 10% this, 10% that, 10% this, and you have multiple different ethnicities on equal footing and none of whom, and at the same time, you know, liberals are preaching that your ethnicity is the most important thing about you and obsession with race and ethnicity. This is a formula, could be a formula. is a high likelihood that's a formula for a very,

very volatile and dysfunctional social fabric. That is true. Nobody ought to find that. That's not a racist point of view.

As I said last week, in Canada, you have all white people, you have the French Canadians wanting to secede from the white Canadians. They're all the same people. Czechoslovakia,

the Czechs left the Slovaks, and the same people, same church, just some different ethnicities. So I am worried about the future of America, and I think, but on the other hand, there's nothing anybody can do about it. We do not have the replacement of Europeans in this country. We do not have the labor in this country.

and so I think the smartest reaction is for us to really get back on board certain kind of ideological marination old school melting pot where we have to de-emphasize this stuff that you're talking about we just have to inculcate people and hope for the best and I'll tell you this I went to Mexico and I had a kind of epiphany. I talked about on the show also. Not that I was ever anti-Mexican, but I was moved by the country, and I realized something that should have been so fucking obvious.

Mexicans are Christians, right? And they're hardworking. And they really don't, if they presented as Italians, just looked like Italians. In other words, it wasn't obvious by looking at them. They just look like another European group.

I do not think we would have the issue with immigration that we're having. Yes, we need to control the border, blah, blah, blah. But I can't, it seems clear to me that it's something about them looking different, which fuels an enormous amount of it. Because they're not from a different religion entirely or a different culture entirely. They don't say anti-American things. They work their asses off. They're not a lot of criminals.

I'm sure there's some. They're not a lot of Mexican criminals. We, they are, I mean, if you could blink your eyes and all the legal Mexicans will leave this country, everything would grind to a halt, right? So this is reality. What are you going to do? So you might prefer not to have this problem of trying to figure out how to truly navigate a truly multi-ethic, multi-race, multi-color nation.

And they may not work. But instead of trying to figure out a way to prevent that, which I think is futile. I think the energy ought to go to trying to figure out how to make it work. I don't think there's a way out of it. I talked a long time. I don't know how you feel about that. Well, I wrote a book called The Fractured State, and I talk about my idea called Neo-Federal Unifism. And it's the idea that I agree with you. There's no reversing this. But what we can do is eliminate all the laws that force us to integrate against our will. Because a lot of this stuff has to do with, well, you better live with this person, even though if your values clash. It's about values, right? And the

idea came to me because I saw people leaving from New Jersey, New York, friends of mine, going to Florida. On their own dime, why? Because the COVID laws were different. So I said, imagine if the U.S. government created incentives for people to live among each other. So same, whether it be the same race, but most importantly, the same political ideology. Because a multi-party state is dysfunctional. It just is. Why would you want to, imagine at a business, half of the business was Republican, half of the business was Democrat. They never agreed. You would not get anything done. But yet, that's our government. So what if we lived in states that reflected our values completely, whether it be race, religion, political,

and we create these states, and we move people to them. I think that would make sense. So instead of, you know, doing this massive, you know, violent deportation thing, I think we should close the border, obviously, but deport all the illegal, sure, but to kick everyone, send everyone to Africa, and back, that's crazy. We have enough room for everyone here legally, and I think we should just allow people to form their own organic states based on their values, that would solve everything. So if you value your race a lot, you could have a state worth that. If you don't, you like the mix, you can go over here. If you're a Christian over there, if you're atheist over here, I think you're plenty of you. You obviously still have some of these, uh, uh, some vestiges of your old way

of looking at things. And I'm not here to, um, have a testy conversation with you about that. I don't agree with you, but I, because I, you know, no, I mean, I mean, we're basically at a time. We can come back again and talk about that. Okay. Like, I want to give you a, essentially for the listeners, yes, I know what you're saying. I don't agree with what you're saying. I just want to be forced. Yeah, that's all.

I don't want to start something. Hold on a second. I don't want to start moving people around, but I want to ask you this question to see if we have, we have common ground here. And I'll tell you a story. So I had a Korean girlfriend one time. And she was fresh off the boat Korean. Her family had been there just a few years, you know.

And she invites me. She said, you want to come to our house for Thanksgiving? I said, Thanksgiving, your family's only been here like seven, eight years. They celebrate Thanksgiving. She's like, yeah, the first thing they did when they got to America is they said, we're Americans now. And they immediately decided to start celebrating the American holidays. And I found this extremely moving.

And I feel like so much of what you're describing melts away when you see people of every race and creed in color and all of it, wrapping themselves in the American flag. When I hear people expressing love of America, I don't see that. That's all I want to hear. And I think so much, do you have that feeling? I would love to see that happen. I mean, I grew up in that reality back in. the 90s and whatever, but I've seen so much division, especially after Obama, this whole

Black Lives Matter, and like you said, ironically, the left who's supposed to be anti-racist is like super racist, right? This is your identity, you're trans, you're this, you're that. There is that indoctrination that exacerbates it. But I do believe that people are always tribal, whether it's their religion, whether it's their race, whether it's whatever. You might not value that, but some people do. And I don't think people should be forced to accept values they don't agree with. That's all. And Americans, you can't. Right, right. But I'm saying we had integration via bayonet.

And I think that was wrong. No, I don't, I don't. I'm saying. So, you know, if people could just live among their own organically, I think that will solve virtually every problem, not every single one of them, but this whole idea that we must have DEI. We have to have diversity quotas. We have to do this.

We have to, it's not even right. It's actually, you're trying to fight racism with more racism. If you think about it, it's actually counterproductive. So the Civil Rights Act, of course, black should have voted. rights, they shouldn't be treated like, you know, second-class citizens, but then to force everything to do this school and that school, that's my issue. That's all. I don't mind other races. I don't hate anyone else. I just don't. But the fact of the matter is some people are just, I think, inherently have different values. It could even be genetic in that way. I just don't want people

be forced. That's my position on that. It's, it's anti-American generally to force people to have values or beliefs or whatever. This is what this is. But that's, it's, you know, we're seeing, though, no. Yes, yes. We're seeing like whatever it passes in California is now federal abortion, you know, it's all over the states. And it's like, what about states rights? You see what I mean?

Yeah, no, I, I, it is generally anti-American to do that. However, no theory ever holds together completely. And every theory, there has to be an empirical look at it. And I've heard people like Dave Smith saying, you know, that we should be, the segregation should be allowed and you should be able to tell someone who's Jewish. or black not to come in your store and whatever it is and i understand the theoretical argument for this stuff i do understand it but i i find it very very ill-considered it's if it if you imagine

america going back to anything that approaches the segregated america of the 50s and 40s and before even this is a horrible step backwards and I think that no matter even though we want people to have freedom of conscience um we have to certain of the most ugly ideas the country has to have a position on regardless you can't force anybody to want to live in a in a black neighborhood you know you can't you can't force that but I we can never I think go back to time where I could not let, I could decide I don't want to let Jews in my restaurant or I don't want to let you in my, there's nothing to be gained by that. Nobody's, nobody's freedom of conscience, I think, needs that kind of respect. In your own home, you do what you want. I think

DEI and all this stuff, this is, this is on the other side of the barrier of reasonableness. But in my opinion, this would just become a cauldron of a racist country again. And by the way, I think we'd fail. Like, if we hear stories, I'm a very, very pro-Israel Jew. When I hear stories of Arabs being excluded in some way in Israeli society, my heart aches, you know, because even despite I know all the security risks and all the reasons, I don't want that to be Israel, right? Would I want that to be, even if their freedom of conscience, like I don't respect the Israelis, freedom of conscience to say, I don't want to let Arabs in my store. I say, fuck Israel. They have to let Arabs in their store. What are they crazy? You would look at Israel and say,

what kind of people are these? They won't let Arabs in their Jewish stores? We can't want that for ourselves, in my opinion. I mean, well, if someone did that, then the store that accepts Arabs will make more money. Maybe, maybe it's the market. You see, the free market at work, you see? Yeah, but we know that doesn't really work. Yeah. Yeah, I, I, would you like, why would we want to test that. We just don't need to. I don't think our experiment has worked that well right now. I think America's dying to be honest with you, if it's already not dead

already. America's in trouble, but this is not, I don't think this. And the reason I think is because of all this, you know? That's why I believe. That's why people like Nick Fuentes are blowing up because he's telling the truth in a sense that even you might find offensive, but at the same time,

yeah, he's a little right, you know? And you got it. That's the thing. We all want the best. We want to live this utopia, but people are just very tribal. Again, you might not be racially tribal. There are people who are people who don't want to live among Gentiles who are not exactly the same kind of Jew or even different Jews. Like people are that way and that's not wrong to be tribal. It's that when we are at war with each other as tribes, that's the problem. Can we find a way to mitigate that conflict, that friction that's going to happen to matter what we do? Even look at these

football teams in Europe, they'll beat the crap out of each other after the game is over. It doesn't make any sense. We're so driable. We do have to go. The worst thing, in my opinion, that the left did is they made it uncool or they stigmatized loving America being proud of its history. Yes. This is it.

It's like, like, how can we all pull together if we can no longer be proud of America? America, its accomplishments, its history. Yes, we had slavery, but we also could be proud of the fact that we fought a civil war to end it, by the way. You know, if the Nazis, I've said this before, if the Nazis, I'm sorry, if the Germans had risen up on their own and fought a war to defeat the Nazis, a civil war. We'd have a different attitude about that period and the Germans. We might find the Germans to be quite heroic and wonderful people, despite the fact. they had their Nazi period because they saw it, they turned around, they risked their lives, and they defeated it, right? That's what America did in the Civil War. The left has done a

terrible thing, I believe, in making us, I said, not cool to be pro-American because we have to have something we have in common as a nation. And by the way, we should be proud of America. What country, if you can't be proud of America, what country should be proud of themselves? Right. Well, no, I've been ashamed of my service for like 20 years and just the other day. I said, you know what? Why am I ashamed to my service? You shouldn't be. Right, because the war in Iraq or, well, I went there believing I was saving these people, whether I was propagandized or lied to. Once you get into the war zone, that doesn't matter. I got to make sure my fellow Marines come home safe.

And that in and of itself is honorable. So, you know, I just got rid of this, you know, guilt that I had for 20 years, literally, just last week. I was like, what am I ashamed of? Because all these other countries, Iran, Russia, they're putting it in our heads. You suck. You're evil. What about you guys? What have you done? You guys aren't saints. And there's the last thing because I know the Iraq war is a very, very difficult issue. But what I think is the weakest case against Iraq war is the case that the motive was bad. The neocons, all the people you might blame for the war, they really, they were guilty of this ridiculous idealism. They really thought they were going to do something wonderful for Iraq. These people would be free.

There'd be liberal values. Women could, you know, and then this would spread through the rest of the Middle East. And this was absurd, right? Now that we look back on it, that wasn't going to happen. But it's not like we went to Iraq. I know that's no consolation for someone who dies or his children die. You know, like it doesn't make it any better that the person who killed them or, set into motion, the circumstances where they were killed, had a good intention. But America did not

go over to Iraq with horrible, evil intention. We didn't go for the oil, like people said. We didn't go to take over. None of these things, we could have done those things. We never, we never did those things. You have no reason to be ashamed, in my opinion. America has reasons to perhaps be ashamed of its terrible mistake, although I could take the other side of that argument in certain ways, but I'm not going to do that today. But you did the honorable thing, you fought for your country,

and you did it. It was post-9-11. Right, exactly it, yes. And people who live post-9-11, I'm always surprised that they're not more empathetic to the current Israeli psychology. Like, hey, I remember what we were like after 9-11.

I kind of understand what's going on in Israel now, except it's worse for the Israelis because they're still surrounded by like 9-11 was a one-off right Israel's dealing with this every day so like you know we should as I said I'm always surprised that that people are not more understanding what's going on there even if they think what is doing wrong like oh yeah we we kind of lived through a similar thing we didn't we were not so immune to that kind of overreaction I'm saying for the sake of argument all right sir you're a very, very interesting guy. Obviously, I don't think I agree with you on everything, but that doesn't matter.

You're brave, and you're, it's very, very difficult for somebody. There's very few people who've been where you were, who've come out of it as you have. So you have to have a very, very admirable personality. So I'm happy to meet you. I appreciate that. I mean, it's been very eye-opening for me. It's life-changing. I mean, 14 years of war against the Jews.

And you could see the comments underneath my posts. Everyone's attacking me. Traders, you got the 7,000, you're a Zion. It's incredible. And I just look at it like, wow. So, yeah, it's been a life-shifting transformation. And I'm just glad, because you know what, guys, I've been at war for 23 years of my life. I mean, literally, after the Marine Corps, I never stopped.

Whether it was the military industrial complex or the Illuminati or the Jews, I'm just happy I'm done. And, you know, as I walked away from the JQ, of me, I said, I have to make peace with the Jewish people. I went to Lakewood, I went to a kosher restaurant, met some rabbis, just to do the right thing in my eyes. Whether anything came of it or not, didn't matter

for me. I wanted to make sure the community that was scared of me, because all the rants knew I was never going to hurt them. That was for me and them. And I did it, and ever since then, everything's been lighter for me. I feel so good that I'm no longer fighting any of you guys, and I mean that as Jews,

anybody at all. Are you in Jersey now? Oh yeah, I'm in brick right now, yeah. You need to come, is that near, I don't know where that is in Jersey. Is that near Manhattan? Oh, it's like an hour away. Yeah, you need to come down to the olive tree one day. Hang out.

I'll be back in September. I don't know if you like comedy, you know, you can see comedy, but we can talk in person. And, you know, we have Jewish food there, but we also very often order out from Il Molino, the Italian restaurant around the corner. So I'll get you some Italian food. and maybe we, do you drink?

No, I don't drink actually. Okay, well, then never mind. Yeah, it sucks, but I'll have a drink. And then we could, maybe we could talk more and talk less guardedly because obviously when you have a conversation like this in the back of everyone's minds, I'll shut up, I don't come out wrong and say the wrong thing on, you know, someone's going to do it.

But because I find a lot of this stuff fascinating, and I want to argue with you about some of it. and acknowledge or concede some other points to you. Like I said, Noam, I said to everyone when I walked away, I want to build bridges. I want to build bridges between people so we could have conversations. And I think those conversations could actually save lives. And I mean that.

Yeah, absolutely. Dan, anything before I say goodbye? No. I thought it was a good show. I'm sure, Noam, you're going to get dumped on because there are people that don't take. Luke is at his word. They think he's still what he used to be and that you gave him a forum and were cordial, but that's to be expected.

That's ridiculous. Why would he put himself through this if he didn't, if he didn't mean it? There is there are people who think that I don't blame them. I don't blame those who doubt me, but I'm not worried because I know it's in my heart. So, you know, I've talked to plenty of people. I've been on different podcast, Jeremy Boring's podcast. I did living La Hain with these Jewish people or rabbis. I spoke to Rabbi Rizashi, another one. I'll talk to anybody. Like I said, I have nothing to hide. I'm very transparent. I'm very open.

Did you ever hear the Anthony Juselick joke? Do you know what then? I'm sure I could get it wrong. Is that the Holocaust joke? His grandmother was a terrible, a terrible anti-Semite, you know, just she's a Holocaust denier and she, and she, how did it go, Dan? So he, Justinik, he's outraged. You can't believe it didn't happen, right?

He's outraged. Yeah, he's outraged. He said his grandmother is a Holocaust scenario, so he calls a rabbi in. And a rabbi spends like five hours just talking to her, talking to her. And now she can't believe it only happened once. Yeah, that's the group. So maybe that's you. All right, sir.

I don't want to end, but I have to end. Okay. Thank you very much. All right. See you. Thank you. I'll talk to you. Later.

All right.