The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Intelligence with Richard Haier

Episode Date: August 18, 2023

Dr. Richard J. Haier is Professor Emeritus in the School of Medicine at the University of California, Irvine, where he has been teaching and conducting research since 1984. In addition to his many professional publications, Professor Haier's research has been featured on NOVA scienceNOW, NPR, CNN, and CBS Sunday Morning, and in numerous newspaper and magazine articles. Nick Griffin has appeared on Conan, The Late Late Show, in his own half-hour Comedy Central special and was featured on The Late Show with David Letterman eleven times. His special, Absolutely Wonderful is available on YouTube.

🎵 This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of the world-famous comedy show that can match you on SiriusXM 99, Raw Dog, and wherever you get your podcasts. Dan Aderman here, coming at you from our studio in New York's historic Greenwich Village. I am all by myself because, well, I'm with Nicole Lyons, our sound person, but as far as the other hosts, they are coming via remote. Noam from his summer residence in Wells, Maine. And Periel from her, I guess, cousin's house or wherever she is in Bat Yam, Israel.

No. No, I'm not in Bat Yam, but that's fine. Okay. Isn't that the Staten Island of Israel? I think it's more of like the Jersey Shore. Either way, Periel's ashamed of her roots. But that's not where I am. First of all, they're not my roots.

And second of all, I'm not ashamed of it, but it's also not where I am. We have Nick Griffin joining us in a little bit to discuss his new special. And also we have a discussion with Dr. Richard Heyer, who has written about the neuroscience of intelligence. And we'll talk about, I guess, IQ and pedics and environment and sort of probably be a little controversial and who knows?

We might get some backlash. But did we? Yeah, go ahead. No. Did we ask him to speak slowly? Who? Because Periel is in Israel. You're really treading on thin ice.

Really? You know, I don't know what kind of good connection you have. I just want to speak slowly so you can understand him. Okay, well, you can tell him that. You can tell him that and we'll see him.

Noam, I want to thank Noam Dorman for hosting me at his house. Publicly, publicly. He's publicly thanking me. Go ahead. Publicly thanking Noam. I don't think it's the first time, but it is the first time

that I spent a couple of days at his summer residence in Maine. He invited me up there and I went for two days. And I when I arrived, I put my wallet. I took out my wallet. I put it on the table in my bedroom that he gave me with neither the intention nor the need to touch it for two days. Noam paid for everything and I thank you for that. There was lobster. Can you start again? Can you say that again? I said I want to thank you for

you know, for You took your wallet and what? I took my wallet out when I arrived at your house. I put it on the table with no intention of picking it up for the next two days. Thankfully, thankfully. What's that, Noam? What kind of person does such a thing?

Well, I assumed that you would pay for everything. Of course, if you if you didn't, I was prepared to to pick it up. But I had anticipated a full, you know, full treating. And that's what I got. Oh, my God. That's the last time you're out. You're out, Dan. Well, I just say, why? Why would you why would you assume such a thing? Because Noam generally pays for shit when when I am in his presence. So I figured, I figured that. Well, what happened? Now,

had he not done so, I would have picked up my wallet and, and, and, and used it. But I didn't anticipate that because I know how no one is. But isn't it sort of the thing that when somebody invites you to go some.

Yeah, go ahead. Isn't sort of the thing that when somebody invites you to go someplace? Yeah, go ahead. Isn't sort of the thing that when somebody invites you to go someplace that generally the person invited would like pick up a meal or several meals as a gesture of thanks for that invitation? That may be the case in general, but when the income disparity is sufficiently vast, I'm not so sure. Please let

me know if I'm wrong. And I also know how Noam is. Maybe I could have gotten a bottle of wine. Fair enough. And if I'm invited back, I will do so or some dessert or something of that nature. But but but in any case, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you you're wrong. It has nothing to do with them. Well, when you you've been to Maine, what did you pay for when you got there? I'm speechless. I don't know. I don't recall, but I can say that certainly, regardless of Maine or any place else, if I'm ever invited someplace, I certainly do.

What did you pay for when you were in Maine? I really don't remember, but I'm telling you that you said, tell me if I'm wrong, and I'm telling you that you're wrong. I might be wrong in the general case. Nick, just to just to keep you up there. We're here with Nick Riven. He just arrived. Nick, I went to know him. So I was in Maine for two days. Well, as man. And I mentioned that I didn't anticipate spending any money when I got there.

I spent money getting there more more than I had anticipated. But that's that's not Noam's issue. Rental cars are expensive, Nick. I should have flown, but by the time I... You rented a car from here? Yes. Oh, that's got to be a... Now, I could have taken a plane, but by the time I got... I did everything last minute. So by that time, the flights were just as expensive.

And I figured I have some freedom and I don't drive very often. So I kind of enjoy it. So I'm saying that when I got there, I, I put my wallet away and didn't anticipate using it, nor did I offer and, and paralyzed was outraged. And, and no, I may or may not be outraged or maybe feigning outrage. I don't know, but, but no, I know how no one is. And I also understand that no one is, you know, he's the big kahuna here.

So do you think that has nothing to do with anything? It doesn't matter. That's not how you measure these things. You're supposed to be you're supposed to be when you were in Maine is the question I asked you. This is the third time you recall anything that you paid for when you were there. And by the way, you come with your husband and son. It's an even bigger imposition. Nick, do you have anything to say? Well, I was going to say I probably would have just as a, you know, I should have gotten a coffee cake.

Just gesture picked up maybe one dinner, you know, one dinner that would have been there was nine people up. Well, I know, but that one dinner would have would have would have cost you about five hundred dollars. These are the things we have to do as adults. I guess I felt like a kid when I was up.

I felt like Noam was daddy and I was a kid and I thought it was rather enjoyable experience. Noam took us to the water park, by the way. He dropped five bills because he took the whole crew. Noted, Noam. Noted and grateful. Does that count for anything? It does count. It counts for a lot. I went on the water slides

and the roller coaster. Oh my God, can I tell you something? Go ahead. It's not too late dan you can send um a thank you no no no no no no no it's too late it's too late well i sent a very nice text when i left yes saying that i thank you and uh if you'll have me back again uh i will bring a an assortment. So listen, what Dan is touching on a on a very, a very interesting issue here. And I and I experienced this on both sides because I was invited on a very upon a yacht cruise in July by a man whose disparity of my income to his probably exceeds

Dan's income to mine. I'd say it certainly does. And of course, and he's, he's a, he likes to pay for everything, blah, blah, blah. And, and I, and I, like he, I think are happy to pay for everything. It's not even like, it's like an issue. On the other hand, you know, when someone expresses it in Dan's words, it is like, oh, I guess, yeah.

So that's the way they think. So, you know, all I can say is that on the one hand, I would like to pay for everything because you're my guests. On the other hand, if it was my kids and I was sending them on a trip, I would tell them, you better not fucking let him pay for everything. You better pay for something. Don't, you know, because that's what you're supposed, you know,

you have to be a mensch. So I would never want to raise, I mean, speaking frankly, I would never want to hear my son Manny on a podcast expressing, what is the truth?

He's telling the truth. Like, I can't fall over the truth. You know, he knows the score. I get it. On the other hand, there's a certain diplomacy

of everything. Certain things you just don't say out loud. I don't know, Dan. I also know you and I know that you typically pay for shit. So that's another factor. Since we're talking about it.

Periel, these motherfuckers. Let me tell you what it extended to, Periel. We went to the movies. We went to the movies. I didn't go to the movies. Oh, you didn't go to the movies. We go to ice cream. I pay for everybody.

Even the smallest amounts of somebody can say, we're getting three scoops of ice cream. No, I got this. Nope. It's in there, let daddy pay for the ice cream. But was I the only one that let you pay?

No, no, no. Okay, but I'm here to tell you that perhaps- Perrielle, it's so funny. And of course, you know, it's one bite. If they were, you know, insufficiently politically correct, draw conclusions. I don't know. I don't know what to say, but I know Nick is thinking Jews. I know. I know. Don't lie. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, but but but but but there's thinking. Don't lie, Nick. Go ahead.

But there's Jews on both sides of this equation. There's the Jew that wouldn't pay for anything and the Jew that paid for everything. So it's kind of a wash. I'm the exception that proves the rule. No, but I'm here to really set the record straight. Having been on the receiving end of both Noam's generosity and other friends of mine who are also very generous and very wealthy. And I mean, perhaps Dan really doesn't know. And so

I'm here to share the information that it's really not a question ever of somebody's wealth. The point is, is that there should be some reciprocity. You never want to let a host pay for everything. It's just in poor taste, if you will. Well, noted. But and I said, I will bring an assortment next time if there is a next time. I do want to talk to you. Go ahead. So I just because i i did notice it so so it's true it's not it's not it makes no sense for dan to pick up a meal or whatever because not only is it nine people with nine people he doesn't even somebody doesn't even know this is about his guests it's it's okay it doesn't have to be a meal it doesn't have to be a meal i'm not saying that but i i did notice that's true dan was in there that when extended to the movies so for instance i just imagine that if i had been in the dan was at the if i had been in the shoes of some

of the other people i said oh it's three of us we're going to the movies this is my chance to to to kind of make an affordable gesture of 40 bucks or whatever it was you know this is you know but nope they all just sat there. What do you want? What do you want? I want a popcorn. I want a Diet Coke. I would have paid for a fucking thing.

To let the record show I wasn't at them. These were other people. You wouldn't have paid if you had been there. No, I wouldn't have. And I would have gotten extra, extra large popcorn with jujube. Very, very poor taste. So I have to say.

And I know some people say it's not the money, but I think you all know me well enough. Really, I couldn't care less. As a matter of fact, it's worth every penny to have this story. This story is well worth the $50 it cost me. But the fact is, I see something of how money corrupts people and it infects their character in a way which is not good you know and i i do think that at some point i won't speak for dan but to feel like a man you got to step up sometimes you know otherwise you feel what about a woman

why why can't you feel like a woman why does it have to be a man um you're right but nevertheless i i stand by my old-fashioned uh that i came if i came by myself i wouldn't want you guys to pay for everything all the time no i i know you i know you and you and uh your husband are not like that at all i know that and then i'm saying even if i came by myself though i i know. I get that. I understand. And I will endorse that. It's absolutely true. I know you. Apparently, if we go up at the same time,

we can split a bottle of Chianti. Okay. Nick Griffin is with us. Nick is a comedy cell irregular. He has been for some time. He's a veteran like myself. And he's got a special out. He put it on YouTube, which is how it's done nowadays. Nick, please tell us a regular he has been for some time he's a veteran like myself and he's got a special out uh he put

put it on youtube which is how it's done nowadays nick uh please tell us if you would sure about your special well i taped it at the lovely uh fat black pussycat bar about uh i think at about 10 months ago and uh fiddled with it a little bit and had it edited and sat on it for a few minutes and then uh and then i just put it out like a week ago so i'm excited and um grateful that the uh the lovely uh fat black pussycat uh comedy seller you know kind of umbrella allowed me to do it there it was uh it was it was cool and i like it. I hated it when I first saw it and now I watched about 20 minutes, 10 minutes of it today and I liked it.

What's it called? Absolutely Wonderful. Everyone I know smokes pot. Old, young, totally. It's like mainstream. Now pot is mainstream. Now more people smoke pot than eat bread. Yeah.

More people smoke pot than eat bread. You know what that means? That means bread is edgier than pot. That means if you go outside after the show and there's a guy smoking a joint next to a guy having a sandwich, the guy smoking the joint's gonna be like, this guy don't give a fuck.

That's pumpernickel. You're supposed to eat that with somebody else. How much time did you put in the coming up with the name? Because I spent a minute, not even at all. Really? I don't even think I had a second idea. I didn't even think this one was great, but I didn't think it mattered.

Yeah. I mean, I, you know, we discussed on, on this podcast, my special, which we should, we call it. It ended up being a little bit bananas. That was Perry. I'll suggest reference my banana joke and the fact that I'm a little bit bananas. But. You know, part of me was like, all right, I mean, obviously you want to have a good name, but I don't know how much I don't think matters really.

At the end of the day, I guess it arguably it's good for the algorithm. If somebody is searching shit, you know, I don't know. I would guess that if you took all the energy that it takes to think, you know, in days that thinks to take up to come up with the idea and put it into marketing, it would probably be more valuable to just market it, like put more money into the algorithm person and the promotion person like that. It's all that's all it is anymore.

It's it's just you got to get people to get eyes on it. And I don't think I can't imagine a name turning somebody off. I mean, obviously there are certain words that would. But there's certain words that might pop up in a search. Yeah, this is the thing. So so your hope is, I guess, what everybody's hope with a special is that three million people watch it and then you can go on the road and people will come sure yeah that would be wonderful that's uh you know i've been doing it for so long and um i have been late to the game in terms of marketing and uh trying to uh accumulate

followers and i poo-pooed the whole just every aspect of uh social. I just I didn't think it was going to last or work or be something. And it ended up being huge and or being really the most important thing at this point. Well, when Dane Cook, when Dane Cook, when Dane Cook became huge from MySpace, that should have clued us in. I know that social media is important, but I'm with you. Even after Dane dane cook i'm like ah who cares about posting shit on instagram right i didn't it's just basic marketing and i didn't uh

it didn't soak in so um but again you know the special is real good and i'm glad i i'm glad i did it and um you know i've gotten some nice people to, you know, recommend it and stuff on Instagram. So it's good. Do you think having a special with a particular theme is nowadays is good? Even if your whole special doesn't talk about like Gary Gellman, The Great Depression. OK, it wasn't every joke, but it was a lot of it was about depression. Right. You know, Mulaney was mostly about.

I think right. Mulaney's was mostly about rehab and drug addiction. Right. I don't know. Any thoughts, Noam, about about a thematic. Mine is just jokes. There are no two jokes go in the same direction as yours. Would you say that?

Basically, yeah, I have three or four jokes on a subject that I move on. So I don't know. Noam, do you think from a marketing standpoint or from a from a fame standpoint or, you know, these comics that do that hit a particular. Theme issue issue. Well, when we were at the ice cream place, Dan, did it even occur to you? Maybe my next special will be called. But I'm sorry. what were you talking about i'm just thinking about the dilemma i'm in now okay so to be honest it didn't occur to me

pay for my peach ice cream which was delicious yeah so anyway so uh do i think it's good to have a theme i think that it's good to be funny as hell. And with Gary's thing, it was more than a theme. It was something extremely unusual, you know, delve into mental illness. And he didn't just make jokes about it. He actually also had not non non funny insights into it, which were actually, to me, more compelling than the stand-up material. I'm his biggest fan, but in terms of making it, setting it apart from other things that might

go for your stand-up watching time, that's what really made it riveting. Similarly, with something that didn't get as much attention but I think is equally good, Al Lubell's Mentally Al, is that what it's called? That's a documentary, not a special yeah well gary's thing is like a documentary isn't it i don't know i i yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you didn't watch it whether i watched it or not is not the point

the point is it was stand-up what kind of fucking friend are you? You leech off me? You don't watch your friend's specials? How do you live with yourself then, Aderman? I'm a flawed individual. I'm making adjustments. And I'm doing my best and I'm trying to improve where I can. Did you watch Gary's special? And you had the nerve to bring it up and then

it was special i know what it's about and i and it was a special it wasn't a documentary that i that i know i think that it's totally fair to say that it had um documentary aspects to it but no i remember it as a documentary no it was a comedy special but it was not a right it was alabelle's so was alabelle's comedy special by any stretch of the imagination right right right i'm agreeing with you yeah i think like no one was saying earlier i think al's story was so compelling that that it And watching him and looking at him and seeing how he maneuvers through the world was, you know, I would have watched it if he was, you know, a mechanic or something. It was. But I've known and loved Al for years, so. Well, I my kid.

I said my kids were captivated by Alabelle's special. My son, Manny, still remembers some of the jokes. But I mean, there was stand-up in it, but 90% of it was not stand-up. So it was not jokes. I guess. I remember them having the hazy memory that we can ask our next guest about. I remember them as being quite similar in terms of the overall way they impacted you.

You definitely heard a lot of Al's material. You heard a lot of Gary's material and that, but the, but the really interesting thing about them was to see the people behind them and how unique their stories were and how they were combating and trying to overcome these. Right. I don't, I don't, I don't want to call it mental illness or whatever it is, but they're, you know, neurological novelties. Well, I meant there's nothing wrong with.

Why don't you want to call it mental illness? Okay. Our next guest will be joining. On a related note, Keith Robinson also has a special coming out on Netflix I'm not sure when it's going to I hate to say the word drop because it just doesn't feel like it's me So I'll say I don't know when it's coming out

Too beatnik-y? It just seems drop is just like hip-hop-y or it's too young, it's too cool You know, when it's going to appear on Netflix, I don't know. But Keith Robinson, who suffered a stroke and had to deal with that,

I find him riveting when he comes, when he performs here. And I go and I watch him and I don't watch many people. Well, Dan, maybe you should introduce Richard. He's there waiting. And then maybe you can, though it wasn't really on the list,

maybe you should ask him any questions about Keith Robinson who had a stroke because this is right up this man's alley, I believe. Okay. I mean, sure. But anyway, Richard Hyer is with us. He's a professor emeritus in pediatric neurology of the UC Irvine School of Medicine and has a PhD from Johns Hopkins. And he is the editor in chief of the Journal of Intelligence. And we are lucky to have him with us, Richard Heyer. How do you do?

Thank you for joining us today. Hi, guys. Good to be here. Richard, just to give you some introductions. I'm here. I'm Dan Natterman. I'm a comic. Noam Dorman is the owner of the Comedy Cellar Comedy Club.

Perry Alashinbrand is a friend of ours and a comic. And Nick Griffin is a comic comic and he's here in studios. So now you know who everybody is and let the games begin. Noam, I assume you have, do you want to, do you want to bring up? Well, I I've, I've stuff to ask, but, but just cause you brought up Keith, do you have any, so we have a comedian, Keith Robinson who had two strokes and you'll be interested. He just got a Netflix special and he's he's impaired.

He can't he slurs his words a bit and he limps. He lost his weakness in one side of his body. But but mentally, he seems exactly the same as he ever was. How is it that you can so often have a stroke like that and it pinpoints various things but somehow doesn't affect your intelligence or seems to well damn first of all i'm glad to be here when you originally contacted me i thought man this is uh the most unusual invitation I've had, a comedy seller. And I didn't have a set prepared. So I was thinking, man, this is going to be tough. So the first question you asked, I have to tell you, I'm not a clinician and I'm not an MD. So I don't have any experience at all with stroke patients. What I do know in general, the answer to your question,

is first of all, depending on how old he is, he has a pretty good chance of recovering full mental function, depending on where the stroke was, how big an area of brain damage there was. And it is the case that strokes and other kinds of brain damage can damage one part of the brain that is not that relevant for some other mental abilities. So speech is a complex mental activity. There are a couple areas in the brain that are extremely important for speech. With time, damage to those areas, with time, the brain either heals those areas or the surrounding tissue takes over the function of those areas. And that's really kind of a compensatory mechanism the brain has. So I don't know this particular case. A critical variable is how old a person he is.

All right. So just a shot in the dark. So, OK, the reason I am enthralled by you and happy to have you here is because I'm always focused on the issue of intelligence. First of all, I have three young children and I desperately want to do whatever I can to give them the ability to achieve their full potential is the way I see it. Their full potential in terms of their intelligence and their intellectual function. And I'm not one who believes I can get them smarter than they were born, but I think that some people never figure out how to be as smart as they can be.

So what is your general feeling about it? Is our IQ something we're born with and there's nothing we can do about it? Well, the short answer is yes. The longer answer is more interesting. And the longer answer really is based on what we understand intelligence is. And some people have a simple definition that intelligence is just the opposite of stupidity.

And we know it when we see it. Other people think slightly more sophisticated that intelligence is individual differences in learning and memory, because some people learn faster and better than other people. And some people have a much better memory and can memorize more things quicker than other people. So why is that? Both of those things are related to intelligence, learning and memory. People who do research on intelligence have a more technical definition, but it's a common sense definition. The definition that most researchers use is that intelligence is a very general mental ability that is common to all mental abilities. So intelligence really is this general ability called the G factor or G. And it comes from the empirical observation that all tests of mental ability are positively correlated with each other. So that if you do

well on one test, you tend to do well on all tests of mental ability. And the G factor can be estimated in people irrespective of the content of the test. So it's not just verbal. It's not just numbers. It's not just spelling. It's not just analogies. It's what's common to all those mental abilities so it's a general general ability does that make sense it's it's general reasoning ability it does make sense and i i my own personal like feeling well before i tell you my personal feeling about it how does that jive with the idea that some people can have very very very specific abilities. Like for instance, I learned that Garry Kasparov, the chess player, has an IQ of like 135. I read that somewhere. Now, 135 is a very high IQ, but you wouldn't think that would be the IQ of the greatest chess player in the world, right? So it's apparent that he has some pinpointed ability and pinpointed

abilities obviously exist in all sorts of things. How does that account? How do you account for that? Yes. Everyone has a different pattern of mental ability, strengths and weaknesses. So I'm a terrible speller, but I can do well. Me too. well. And doing numbers well, not that so important in everyday life anymore because we have calculators. Being a bad speller now has become irrelevant to me because I have word checking, word processing. But there are different patterns of cognitive strengths and weaknesses. And grandmaster chess players are an interesting example because they tend to have higher than average IQs, but they're not kind of the mental geniuses you might imagine. 135 IQ is around the top 1% of the population.

So that's pretty smart. But we see this thing you're talking about of being very good in some mental abilities and not so good in others when we talk about savants. So, you know, a savant is someone with an extraordinary mental ability who can read a book by just flipping the pages like this, scanning next page, and then remember everything. We've had some, they're very rare, but there are some fairly recent examples of people who can do this. Yet, this particular person that I'm thinking of, his IQ was so low, he could not take care of himself. And his father devoted his life to taking him around and being sure he was okay. He actually performed in front of audiences where the audience would call out questions like, who was Henry VIII's fourth wife? Where was she born? And when did she die? And he could immediately tell you the answer to that question because he had read a whole bunch of historical

books and albinics and things like that. So that was an example of someone with an extraordinarily narrow mental ability, but very little of the G factor. I read somewhere that people, so memory. Yeah. So I read somewhere that people that are, that there are a certain number of people that are extremely gifted with languages, with language learning that inevitably aren't that smart. And that kind of makes sense because children are great language learners and they're not that smart.

But yet the dumbest American can learn English or the dumbest person in any in any country learns their native language. Quickly and well and veritably veritable geniuses at language learning. At language learning, that's right. And there are complicated brain maturation things in early life that account for that. So, yeah, we know that separate mental abilities exist, but they're not completely separate. They are related. So people who are, whereas, as you say, everyone essentially learns to speak their native language. Some people become novelists and are very verbally gifted, and other people can't do that with language. So there are vast individual differences in language ability within a population of native speakers.

All right. Now, let me let me tell you what my life experience has been. I have been I was always very smart. I always did very well in school. But as I got older and I became more distracted, I can remember being young and just being able to totally focus on whatever it was in school. By the time I got to college and I had to take the LSATs, I had a lot of trouble. And I took a practice LSAT and I just could not focus. And I just walked out. I said, whatever, whatever. And then, but when I went into the actual test for some reason,

and I can remember to this day, I've spoken about it. Time slowed down. I had absolute focus and I can remember, like I remember the problems, some of the problems I had to this day. And I got virtually everything right. I got a very, very high score. I could have never gotten that score if it was not under actual test conditions. And so I became open to the idea that some aspect of intelligence in my mind is a batting average in the sense that some people can get the same task right over and over and over. They seem to be impervious to any kind of stress or anything like that. And other people, they have the ability to get these things right,

but they can't get them right as predictably because for whatever reason, I've suffered that way, they can't always get in the right headspace to think about like a computer where you control all to lead and all the processes going. For some reason, there's always a lot of bandwidth going on with me, and I can't seem to devote, except in certain moments, I can't devote the full bandwidth that I'm capable of to the problem at hand. And I've noticed that some people don't have that issue. I don't think they're smart than I am. I might even think I'm smarter than they are

because I know like when I'm in the shower and I'm thinking clearly I will exceed their ability, but I can't get my mind on track a lot of the time. Is that anything, any comments on that? Yes. What you're describing is the difficulty of measuring the G factor. There is no direct measure of the G factor. It's estimated. And an IQ test turns out to be a good estimate of the G factor because a standard IQ test has subtests from different mental abilities that are all combined into one number, one IQ score. But an IQ score is not an estimate of the G factor because they all involve reasoning, the different kinds of reasoning. And under some circumstances, you might be reasoning better today than yesterday. So for example, if you take an IQ test when you have the flu and 102 temperature, you get a score. A month later, you take another IQ test and you get a different score that's better.

Clearly, the second time you took the test, that score is a better estimate, a more valid estimate. And that's why for students, students are allowed to take the SAT multiple times and universities usually only count the best score. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. I just, and by the way, do SAT scores go up with people who take Adderall like this? Has that been measured? There's not good research on that.

If Adderall or another drug helps you pay attention a little bit more, then you're paying attention more. And maybe your score might go up because you can finish one or two or three more items in the time allotted because you're working a little faster. It doesn't necessarily make you more accurate, though. Doesn't make you smarter. Now, what about things like talents, like comedy? Like you're here, these two guys here, these are Ed Perriel. These are some of the really the most gifted comic minds. They're smart guys.

I don't think they're super geniuses. I don't think any of this are. But is it like what distinguishes talent from G factor? Well, that's an excellent question. I mean, they're not the same thing. They're not the same thing. And talents are more specific. But they're not unrelated to the G factor. So think of all the comedians that you know, you could probably, at least in your head, rank order them in terms of how smart you think they are. I do that all the time. Probably none of them. I don't think you'd say any of them are dumb because it takes a certain amount of intelligence to have insight into the human condition,

which is often the source of humor. It takes intelligence to verbally craft a joke. I've tried to make up jokes. It's not an easy activity. Well, can I interject? Because this is my field. First of all, you'd be surprised. I'm not saying comedians...

They're dumb comedians, but there are comedians whose level of intelligence is probably unimpressive. Do you want to say who? No, of course I don't. But as far as writing jokes, I think there probably is a correlation between IQ and writing good jokes. There are some comedians that are known as good joke writers.

I happen to be one of them. Nick Griffin happens to be one of them. Perrielle still is still getting getting, you know, she's still getting her feet wet in the business. But we'll see where that goes, because it does take. But I think if you look at comedians that you perceive as writing good jokes. And their IQ is you will see a pretty good correlation now but there's other things to being a comedian than writing good jokes i can't do impressions very well i do them okay not amazingly um but impressions i wouldn't imagine have anything to do with iq um you know sam kinnison you know he used to scream um his jokes were good but they were augmented by that scream and that scream i don't think

is intelligence related it's it's it's a performance there's perform comedians who perform well who can do it not just impressions but characters um can can can you know, do act outs, we call it, where they act out a situation. So but in terms of raw joke writing, I think you'll find a pretty clear correlation between comedians that are considered good joke writers and their IQs. OK, that's it. That's all I have to say. Nick Griffin, if you have any comments. Well, I had one question about how you would characterize ambition as opposed to intelligence.

Is that a form of intelligence? These people who, because we all know of comics who are really, really good, and they don't have the drive, that kind of pursuit of excellence that others do, that other lesser talented people have. I mean, where does that come from? Is that something you're kind of nurtured in early life were to kind of be that way? Or is that something that's just a part of you, that kind of ambition or pursuit?

In a way, you're asking about what it takes to be successful at something. Yes, please help us. And to be successful at something. Yes, please help us. And to be successful at something often requires a good amount of G or a minimum amount of G, depending on what you want to be good at. The more complex the job, the more G matters. As you can imagine, you want to be a theoretical physicist, you need some G. I would say for a comedian, 120 is more than enough. I would say probably 115 is all you really need. And then some good hustle. That's probably correct because, and that, those numbers might be true for just about any vocation you're talking about.

But your question was about ambition, because in addition to G, if you just have G and no ambition and no personality and no ability to do anything with it, what you got is G. And you can sit home with your G and answer Jeopardy questions. And that is not a terrible thing. But if you want to go out into the world and be successful in real world things, you need things in addition to G like ambition. Now, by the way, integrity, you said, you said something,

you said something interesting there. Maybe it was just a, cause you didn't, you weren't careful with the thing off the top of your head, but you use jeopardy. But jeopardy to me is almost the most, the best example of a pure memory task. So it's almost not, is that a G task? Is Jeopardy a good measure of general intelligence?

It is, because how much you know, how much you've learned, how much you've retained is part of the G factor. So people with high G know a lot of stuff, you know, and how they know it is not so clear. They may have learned it back in high school and they just kind of remember it, but they remember it quickly and remember jeopardy, the questions in jeopardy, which are your answer has to be in the form of a question, but the prompts in Jeopardy are a little verbally complex sometimes. It's not a straightforward. Who is the king of England in 1415? It was it's more nuanced. OK, so some quick questions now. Sense of direction, this correlates to general intelligence?

I don't think so. I don't recall any studies. Sense of direction is interesting. It's sometimes called navigation ability. And like all things like that that g can be a component but i don't know that there's a strong relationship between the two yeah i get i am so glad to hear you say that because i have the worst sense of direction what what a surprise my my uh my sense of direction can get screwed up sometimes. You know, sometimes I think of my brain as like there's an engine, like a processor, which I consider, you know, to not so good. And so if I can get the inputs in a way that I can comprehend them

into that processor, I will be very good at reading a map or whatever it is. But if this problem I have, like I sometimes reverse things, I'll sometimes reverse it. I'll look at a clock and I get three o'clock

and nine o'clock reverse, whatever it is, especially if I'm tired. And if I can't get past that, then garbage in, garbage out and if I can't get past that, then garbage in garbage out. Then even if I, then I can't bring my G to bear. And I, and I feel like there are certain ways that certain things get into your brain and some of it, and, and those can also be better and worse in people. And that, and that can be another factor. That's my, just my own intuitive feeling of like really thinking about what I'm good at and what I'm not good at and

where I fail. And I'm always feel like if I can get my mind around the basic variables of something, I can reason very, very well. But sometimes for some reason, like I just picture things, you know, reversed, like I'll picture things, you know, reversed, like I'll picture walking down a stair and it's hard for me to picture walking around the other way. And some days I can do it and some days I can't. And if I can do it, I can do everything right. Is that, is that, is there any theory that sounds like that? I don't know any theory that would, I'm afraid I don't, but I can make one up. Well, you heard it here first. How's that? You heard it here first. I'd ask you this. What is neuroplasticity? It sounds

like something people rationalize. Is it really true? Well, it's a general term that refers to the fact that the brain changes. When you learn something, your brain changes. Over time, as you mature and get older, your brain changes. So the brain is not a static organ. I don't know that your liver, for example, is plastic or your kidneys are plastic in the same sense that brain plasticity implies. Right. But is there a tension between the idea that your IQ is fixed based on your genetics, but you can work on something and your brain changes? Some people like to think so. They like to make that argument, but there's no real evidence for it. I mean, your IQ scores are pretty stable over long periods of time, over decades. You know, let me just tell you, there

was a really fascinating study in Scotland that started in the 1930s. Some researchers gave every single 11-year-old in Scotland, not a sample, all of them, every kid, tens of thousands, an IQ test on the same day when they're 11 years old. Okay. Now, this was in the 1930s. Many of those people are still alive and they're still being studied. And- If they were 11 years old in 1930, very few are still alive, I would imagine. Well, I'll come back to that in a second, because their IQ score at age 11 predicts their mortality. I'm saying it now, so you remind me to come back to it. The point that I wanted to make was when they take another IQ test in their

70s, the two are highly correlated. So there's a lot of stability from age 11 to age 75. Now, if you take all the kids at age 11, and you divide them now as adults into quartiles based on their IQ score at age 11, more people are alive at age 75 in the highest IQ quartile than in the lowest. It's true for men and for women. In men, I think it was about 50% of men in the highest IQ quartile are still alive at 75, compared to only 35% in the lowest quartile. And the numbers are similar in women. I think they're a little stronger in women, actually. By the way, it's in a country that has national health care. So everybody gets access to health care. And yet there's something about having a higher IQ over the long run that increases your odds

of staying alive longer. Well, I mean, things that come to mind would be fewer dumb accidents and then being better informed on how to take care of yourself and reading the newspapers on what's not healthy for you and being able to comprehend it. Yeah, all those things have been studied. It's not so clear. And there's some evidence that whatever the genes, we haven't really talked about the genetic aspects of intelligence and the G factor.

But it could be that whatever the genes are that lead to higher IQ are also genes that lead to better health. Is there a relationship between IQ and the onset of dementia? Do smarter people less likely to get dementia? I mean, in my personal experience, it doesn't seem to be the case, but I'm wondering if there's any literature on that. There's a ton of literature on this. I mean, it's very interesting.

It seems that higher IQ people, it takes longer to see the deterioration and get a diagnosis in higher IQ people. This is a concept called cognitive reserve. And the story that goes around to illustrate this, I'm not sure it's a true story, is that there was a mathematician who went to see his doctor and said, you know, I used to be able to multiply two, four digit numbers together in my head, but there's something wrong. I can now only multiply two, three digit numbers together in my head.

You know, so, you know, multi, you know, two, three digit numbers in your head is pretty hard. There's a similar story about a guy that went to the doctor and he said, and the doctor said, yeah, you're going to die in 10. And the guy says, 10 what? 9. I think that's

true. Listen, you get in your 60s, you're supposed to slow down. But I noticed that the part of me which used to be able to generate an answer to an arithmetic problem, even a fairly complex one that was touched on algebra in some way, it would just come to me. It would often just come to me or come to me very, very quickly. That is not reliable

anymore. I can still figure it out. I don't have any trouble figuring it out, but the part behind the curtain that I don't really have access to, which would just expectorate the answer, whatever the word is, that is not reliable as it used to be. I like to think it's because I don't do math like I used to, whatever it is, but deep down, I know that's not the reason. I'm afraid to tell you that there's very clear research that after age 60, your mental speed really starts to decrease. It really peaks in your 20s. And this is why Jeopardy used to have a special tournament for seniors. It's not that they didn't know the answer, but their reaction times are just slower. Go ahead. Well, I've noticed I'm not quite 60. I'm in my 50s.

But I certainly don't think that my joke writing ability is less. And in fact, I think I'm writing better jokes. Maybe it's just because I'm better. I have more experience at it. But you're not 60, Dan. I understand that. But I'm not seeing any decline yet. That's right.

I was talking about mental speed. Thank God it, you know, thank God writing good jokes isn't really that important anyway. Go ahead. There are different trajectories in different professions. So some architects like Frank Lloyd Wright do some of their best work in their 80s and even 90s. Mathematicians, the really good mathematicians, can peak in their 30s. So it depends on what kind of mental activities you're doing. Now, two questions.

What about alcohol? How bad is it for you? You know, I don't preach anything, but as I understand it, I don't know the research on this, but as I understand it, alcohol doesn't help the aging process. Okay. And what about a loss of hearing? I have noise-related hearing loss. I know there's correlations, but the causation is not determined. What's your feeling about that? Nowadays, if you have hearing loss, you know, I wear a hearing aid in each ear and have for a long time. If you have hearing loss and you don't have hearing aids, the hearing loss gets worse. And people say, I don't know what the research is on this, that

if you don't hear well and you can't participate in conversations and social activities, that makes you more vulnerable to cognitive aging. Phrenology, the idea that a bigger brain or a bigger head, I guess, makes people smarter. I've read somewhere that there is a little bit of grain of truth to that. There's more than a grain. The problem is you called it phrenology. Let's take the word phrenology out of it because that's something slightly different. But it is you called it phrenology. Let's take the word phrenology out of it because that's something slightly different. But it is true that there is a very robust correlation of around 0.4 between brain size and IQ. And that's very reliable. It's been known for decades. Yeah, but does somebody have a big head, more likely to have a large-sized brain?

If you have a bigger head, you'll have a bigger brain, but the head circumference is not a great measure of brain volume, but MRI scans, with the advent of MRI, the old criticisms of research that was based on head circumference and IQ, that's been supplanted by very sophisticated brain imaging. I used to do brain imaging research. So there definitely is something to bigger brains, smarter people. But I also add some of my own research showed that the more efficient brains were related to higher IQ. So that it wasn't how hard your brain was working necessarily that was related to how smart you were, but how efficiently your brain was working. So we really haven't gotten into the actual interesting research.

I just want to say one thing before you have to leave, because you asked me, can you improve IQ? And I said, the short answer was no. But this is where research is going to increase the G factor. So I have said, and not all intelligence researchers agree with me, that the ultimate goal of all intelligence research is to be able to increase the G factor. We don't know how to do that by giving young children educational toys doesn't really seem to do much, or an enriched environment really doesn't seem to do much. It seems to be more with a genetic unfolding, so that if we want to think seriously about increasing intelligence, we have to understand the neurobiology. And there is research now tying not just brain imaging and kind of a mega look, but also synapses and neurons, differences in neurons to intelligence. There's a big distance between i would wake up tomorrow on an intelligence but it's not a an unknowable set of

events between those things i would wake up tomorrow you they figured out some way to to to enhance iq or g biologically and you and and you gave me a pill and i woke up tomorrow with a with 180 iq or you know with much higher IQ. How quickly, how would I even, when would I notice? What would, how would I, how might I first notice this? Would it probably take weeks before I even realized? Well, your jokes might be better or worse. You got to watch that. What's that movie with Ernest Borg? Flowers for Algernon.

Charlie. You're right about that. It's not clear which direction that might go. But you would notice a difference right away in how quickly you caught on to things. You know, and you may become a better investor, for example, or something. I don't know. But there is a big difference. Having an IQ of 180, let's say, well, what would it be like to see the world the way

Einstein saw the world? I don't know if his IQ was 180, but it was pretty good. I suspect that our, do you know Tyler Cowen? I suspect his IQ is in there. Now, listen, Dan, I'll answer your question a different way. Imagine Perrielle woke up with an IQ of 180. You think you'd notice the difference? You know, I was waiting for you to chime in with some like that. I thought you were going to say, I thought you were going to say my husband would dream to not be able to hear anything. All right. Well, I guess I had, well, I had one last question, but I't know him that you didn't ask about me no one's a musician and i'm surprised he didn't ask if there's any relationship between

musical ability and iq but he didn't oh i i don't know my last call you can ask that because my wife's gonna kill me i saw the movie i oppenheimer uh yesterday i i paid for everybody and um uh but you couldn't it could be lost on no one that this is a story of what seemed to be Ashkenazi Jews, just one after another, after another, after another, after another. A small, small portion of the world's population. Is that genetic? What is going on there? There's a there's a lot written about that. And people have been trying to understand what the actual genes might be, what the genes do.

Genes play a role in intelligence and the frequency of the so-called intelligence genes, and there are no genes for intelligence. I mean, genes make proteins, and there's a whole thing about proteins in the brain and brain chemistry and neurobiology. I mean, you start with down here in the brain, and you wind up with theoretical physics. I mean, that's a long way to go. A lot has been written about why some people are smarter than others and whether some groups have different frequencies of the relevant genes. Yeah, I don't want to get you into trouble because it's a very, very fraught issue. I'm open to a lot of things, but I read Charles Murray's last book, which was like Facing Reality. And I was actually quite turned off. I imagine he might be a friend of yours and yeah, I could write you off,

off a line. What I, what I felt, but I, I was, I was turned off by the direction that he went. And I, I thought that it was, was dangerous, but having said that, one can't help but observe certain things and, and wonder what the hell is going on there. I have to go and I apologize because I'm on vacation and I have an event I have to attend, but I would invite you guys to go on for a few more minutes because Mr. Herr, you're a fantastic resource here.

And this is the most interesting of topics as far as I'm concerned. I think everybody is fascinated. Every parent is fascinated. Every person who questions their own ability and wonders what they're capable of and what they could be capable of is interested in this stuff. So if you guys have a few more questions, please go on. I don't know if you're in New York, Perry, if he is, or any way we can ever get to meet him in person, that would be wonderful. But very, very nice to meet you, sir. And I really appreciate it. Well, likewise, and I'm sorry you're leaving because I'm just about to explain how you can

become smarter. But these guys... Well, I'll listen to it. Okay. Bye, guys. Were you kidding, Dr. Hyde? Are you Dr. Hyde? I have a PhD, so you can call me Rich. That's Dr. Hyde as far as I'm concerned. Were you about to tell us how to become more intelligent? No, but I'm fascinated with, you brought up the IQ pill, and I have given a lot of public lectures about IQ and intelligence. And I often ask the audience, if there was a pill you could take with no side effects, and it would increase your IQ by a standard deviation, which is 15 points, which is a lot, would you take the pill? And then I would ask, okay, while you're thinking about this, suppose I had two pills pills and you could only take one. One would increase your IQ.

The other would increase your charisma. Which would you take? I will put that. Nick, you haven't spoken in a while. Let's let you answer that. Charisma in a heartbeat. Yeah, definitely. And yeah.

Well, I'm a comedian, so I don't need those extra 15 points. That's not the uh determining factors i mentioned earlier and you know in comedy so i guess i would take the charisma on the other hand the 15 extra points if i could become a better investor you know uh maybe that would uh i'm looking at the bottom line here what's most likely to get me some cash because i don't think being more intelligent is going to make me happier. It's not going to make me happier. At least I need

some cash. I guess that's really the question, though. Ultimately, we're looking for happiness. I don't think an extra 15 is going to make me happier. What about this idea that being ignorant is bliss?

Is there any truth to that that does being more intelligent lead to more problems because the more aware you are how awful everything is just more depressing well so let me ask you this while we're thinking about answers to these questions suppose um you have a Can I just take a pill and just get a million dollars cash and a briefcase? Well, let me ask you, would you give your kid or your nephew or some child that you know, would you give them an IQ pill? Especially if the other- Wow, that's a good question. Especially if the other kids in school were taking one

um well it depends what he's starting off with if he's just a dope god bless him uh i'd give him the pill if he's already working with if he's worried i mean if he's working with 130 125 i'd probably leave it at that uh i mean is there a correlation again the bottom line is human happiness that's kind of what we're all after. And is there reason to believe that he'll be happier with that extra 15 points? If, say, he's already got 125, 130, or even 120. Whatever the relationship is between intelligence and happiness, it's not so strong that you could predict for any individual

whether more IQ would make them more or less happy. Because you're right, more IQ, more opportunities, more opportunities, more problems, more problems, more anxiety. You know, it's a mixed, it's mixed. I will tell you when I... So what do most people say when you ask that question? What do they pick? In an audience of academics, and I once gave this talk in a room full of theoretical physicists, all hands want more IQ. Wow.

Instant, instant. So just an ego thing? They want more intelligence. And when I talk to the public, more hands go up for charisma. Wow. That makes sense. But again, we talked specifically to comedians and, you know, I think that, I think Nick and I are, our joke writing ability is as good as it needs to be. And so I don't think there's much marginal benefit for more IQ. No, you guys need to work on your social media, not on your joke writing.

Okay, so I don't know if that would be charisma or just work ethic or what that would be. But on the other hand, as I said before, if that higher IQ could make me a better investor or perhaps a better writer in terms of books and scripts outside of pure stand-up, maybe that would be of benefit. I would be interested to know, you don't have to name names, but I would be interested to know of all the comedians and joke writers you know, do you think the best ones are also the smartest well i think the best joke writers as i was saying earlier but there's more to being a great comedian than just writing a good joke of course yeah um you know so there there's there's performance ability that you know um also it's like um i don't know if they're the best, but my favorite types are more joke writer types.

But I can appreciate, you know, a guy with a lot of, or a female with a lot of charisma. It just, it feels like they're in the same, you know, we're in the same kind of lane when you're talking about joke writing. I always keep my eye out. Well, some comics also just have more interesting stories. John Mulaney did a special. Now, I'm sure he's very intelligent, but he also happens to be a drug addict. And he talked about that, and he talked about rehab,

and that was just engaging because of what he lived through which has nothing to do with with his with his intelligence um we're talking about keith robinson who's who had a stroke and it's fascinating to hear him on stage dealing with that so that that's another factor there's joke writing the performance and the stories that you the life you've lived the life you've lived. The life you've lived is a factor in terms of how good a comedian you are. So those non-G-related factors are relevant.

But in terms of pure joke writing, yes, I think there's a correlation with intelligence. So I don't know if you have anything to say about that. Is there, we know that an IQ can get you further in your career. Is there an intrinsic happiness that people have that are more intelligent, irrespective of income, just is being intelligent in and of itself, does that make you happy? It's not so clear.

You know, there's another, you know, I talked about the study in Scotland. There's another longitudinal study that started at Johns Hopkins in the 1970s when I was a graduate student there. And it was on mathematically precocious kids. And they gave a bunch of 12-year-olds the SAT math test. And they identified a bunch of 12-year-olds who scored as high on the SAT math as freshmen at Hopkins. So these are pretty precocious. It's a long story, but essentially they have just done a 50-year follow-up of those kids. Wow. This is now based on one test score at age 12 on SAT math.

In 1970. In 1970. Okay, so those kids are in their 60s, these kids. Yeah. And so they've had, some of them are a little older. They've had careers, and many of them have done quite well. And as you would expect, and a lot of them, you know, they all have the same vicissitudes of life as everybody, the same difficulties, but they tend to be happy in their work, in their lives, whether that's due to their intelligence or their general success

hard to know hard so it's hard to answer that question there's an episode a funny episode of the simpsons where homer gets a crayon stuck in his nose or no he has a crayon stuck in his nose like they find out the only reason he's so dumb is because of this crayon. So they take it out and then he becomes, now he's really intelligent and he's sitting through a movie and everybody's howling. And, and he's like, this is dumb and stupid. And he, and he says, yeah, I want the crayon back. How did I miss that episode? Well, Google, how did I miss that?

Easy to find, you know? Yeah. I don't have to watch that um so there is that on the other hand sometimes i do get certain satisfaction you know uh you know in intellectual pursuits i don't know overall you know yeah i don't get i mean i just feel like the older i get the more thinking doesn't really help my day-to-day kind of mental well-being. Yeah, mental well-being. Perfect. Well, let me ask you this.

If you could give up 15 IQ points, but you knew that you would suffer a lot. That's an interesting question. I've asked myself, would I give, would I be dumb? But if you told me I'd be dumb, but I'd be happy. And the logical answer is of course you should take, say happier, happier, happier, not necessarily happy as soon as you feel whatever it is as soon as you make the deal you'll be glad you did because you'll be happier and yet i don't know or you're a moron what i'm saying is is if you said to me i'll make you dumb but happy i wouldn't take the deal but i should logic dictates that of course i should do that

i'm gonna modify my talks now i'm gonna ask yeah iq pill to make you smarter charisma or iq pill that makes you dumber but yeah yeah but theon in the nose yeah we could do an experiment on this all you have to do is uh stop doing what you're doing for a month and watch uh certain tv channels that are kind of mindless for your entertainment just you know binge on something that's kind of fluffy and... The Bachelor. ...not so value at all. The Bachelor. Something like that. Yeah.

See if you feel better after a month. No, it sounds awful. It sounds like turning your brain into garbage. Well, I've enjoyed The Bachelor on occasion. I have not. I went to a friend of mine's house. I have not watched it. She put on The Bachelor. I said, what is this fuck. I have not. I went to a friend of mine's house. I have not watched it. She put on The Bachelor.

I said, what is this? I'm not going to watch this shit. And then 30 minutes later, I'm transfixed. So anyway, I think that's... Now, you see, I feel the same way about watching Nova. You don't even know what Nova is. Yeah, we know what Nova is. I remember. I think it's on Netflix now.

Okay. Could be. It could be. By the way, I will end. I do want to say that I read a brief history of time years ago, which is supposed to be a layman's guide to theoretical physics and couldn't understand a word of it. Hilarious.

So the point is there's no easy way to explain the origins of the universe. That's all I'm going to say. Anyway. I had the same experience with that book, by the way. And everyone I know who bought the book says the same thing. It's not a simple book.'s just not it it's it's as simple as perhaps as it could be but that's what i think that's probably true because i mean the concepts are so mind-bending that it's really hard to get your head and maybe for a guy like

hawking who wrote the book he thought oh any moron can understand this book. Because to him, he dumbed it down to a level that for him seems so easy. Not realizing that that dumb for him is beyond everybody else's, you know, comprehension. Anyway, he paid, you know, he I'm sure he would have preferred to be dumber and able-bodied if he gave him that pill but who knows he's not around to uh ask that question but um maybe maybe not maybe he maybe i did see the simpsons episode that featured him oh yeah that's right there was a simpsons episode where he was yeah Yeah, there was. But like all these smart people were like, you know, bragging about being smart. And then he kind of walks in in his wheelchair and says, no,

you're all idiots. Okay. Let's say Rich, where can people find you in your work? My website is richardhire.com. They can Google me, get a bunch of links. They can go on Amazon. I have a couple of books on intelligence that are really written as introductory books. No jargon, pretty clear language. Talk about the G factor.

Talk about brain imaging. Talk about genetics. A lot more than we got into today, but I'm easy to find on the web. Yeah, I think your book is The Neuroscience of Intelligence is one of your books? It is. Second edition just came out. The other book that just came out is called The Science of Human Intelligence. And the science of human intelligence talks about aging, talks about sex differences, talks about national differences. The neuroscience of intelligence focuses on genetics and brain imaging. Okay, so the neuroscience of intelligence, if you're interested in genetics and brain images,

if you're looking for a lighter fare, Perry L Ashenbrand wrote a book called on my knees. And that is available on Amazon as well. And I have now Dr. Higher. You can imagine that on my knees, I don't have to spell it out for you. That's a book about a young lady's sexual awakening.

Not really. Have you read it yet? You still haven't even read it. I have not done so. He's reading it tonight. He watches Gary Goldman's special. Exactly. Exactly.

And Nick Griffin has a new special out on YouTube called? Absolutely Wonderful. Absolutely Wonderful. From one of the better joke writers that we have here at the Comedy Cellar. Thank you. Yes. And I guess that's it.

Podcast at ComedyCellar.com for comments, questions, suggestions. Thank you, Nicole Lyons, our sound wizard. And we'll see you next time. Bye-bye.