The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Jackie Martling, Liz Miele, Paul Mecurio, Jack Holmes, and Gilbert Gottfried

Episode Date: July 27, 2018

Jackie "The Joke Man" Martling is a legendary standup comedian and former head writer for The Howard Stern Show. Liz Miele and Paul Mecurio are New York City-based standup comedians. They may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar. Jack Holmes is an Associate Editor for News & Politics at Esquire.com, where he writes daily and edits the Politics Blog with Charles P. Pierce. Gilbert Gottfried is a legendary standup comedian and film and TV actor. He may be seen performing at the Comedy Cellar, and heard on his podcast, "Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast."

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. We're here at the back table of The Comedy Cellar. My name is Noam Dwarman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. I'm here, as always, with my very good friend, Mr. Dan Natterman. Speaking of as always, I won't be here next week. I'll be in Aruba. As almost always. And we have with us today, Jack Holmes is an associate editor of news and politics at Esquire.com.

Wow. We have Liz Mealy, who is a newly passed comedian at The Comedy Cellar. Yeah. And a radio legend, Mr. Jackie Martling is here, everybody. Thank you, buddy. Thank you. So, just to tell you, just literally the day that Stephen

told me he was in touch with you, I said, you know, when Jackie was here, I really hit it off with him. I really liked him. And I've been so busy. I should contact him and invite him down. Not even for the radio show, just to come hang out. And literally that day, Stephen said that you would... Is that... You're not pulling my chain?

I told you, as soon as he texted me, I'm like... My friend Phil called me and said, hey, the comedy seller, they're trying to get you in in Las Vegas. And I said, well, I might have Gnome's info, but I don't know. And I looked and I didn't have anything. And I said, what? And I just wrote to Steve and said, I would love to do that podcast again. It's been long enough that I told myself, well, if they didn't want me back, you know, who cares?

It's been long enough they're going to forget. So he said, come on in sometime. I said, fine. How about Wednesday? And I did Anthony today, so this is perfect for me. Steven wants to say something. Go ahead.

So if there's any doubt about what's holding this show together, it's producer Steve, right? All right. Steve is trying to get some credit. You're an idiot.

I called you. Speaking of Vegas, I did want to mention that the Comedy Cellar won an award or something or some sort of... The Comedy Cellar in Las Vegas won something.

What did it win? I didn't think it opened yet. It's already open. It's open. It's been open for two months. It won, I don't know, a Vegas... Well, you posted on Facebook. No, I did not.

Somebody posted... Well, the comedy seller account posted... Vegas... I don't follow us. Vegas... They won Best Comedy Club in the whole West Coast. It was... No, it was voted by some magazine. Vegas Magazine. Best Comedy Club in the whole West Coast. It was voted by some magazine.

Vegas Magazine was voted Best Comedy Club. Best Comedy Import. To which I responded on Twitter, what's a comedy import? I don't know. Which I did not get a response back. I would think all their acts are imports. You know what I mean? They stay much longer.

But I feel like that's what they do. They import a show. It's there for three to six months or longer, depending on how well they're doing. But I think everything's an import. I don't even know who we were up against. It's like saying a New Yorker's a transplant. All right, so listen. We have a real...

Also, I had one other thing I wanted to bring up, Noam. It was Noam's birthday recently. Happy birthday. I'm not going to get into his age. He posts on Facebook, but he's only in his 50s. He's in his mid-50s. We'll leave it at that. He posts on Facebook.

I don't know how many birthdays I have left, so I'm grateful. How many more laps? So I'm grateful for all the love, or whatever he said. What the hell is wrong with you at your age talking like that? And bumming everybody out to boot. I'm 70 and I don't type that.

But listen, what the hell's wrong with you? You want an honest answer? Yes. I have three young children, six, five, and one. And on my mind all the time is wanting to be around, to see them through at least an age where I feel that... To launch them. Yeah, that the diminishing returns on having a father in life, that they'll be marginally affected by my demise.

And I see around me, you hear all the time, you know, people's lives falling short at young ages. And, and, you know, and I just, you can't,

I think that way sometimes. I'm like, you know, I just, it's on my mind. I just hope I'm around. I hope I'm around. Well,

you're bumming me out when you say those things. The last time I did this show, it was uplifting. All right. Well, okay. Listen, we'll try to,

we'll try to bring it back. I'm just, I'm going to upload. Now, Jack Holmes wrote nine. I heard you're a real extremely left-wing in your politics. That's the rap on you, Liz. What? That I'm a feminist and I speak my mind?

How does that make you extremely left-wing? I think that just makes me a person. You're making my point for me. Anyway. That's the way a lot of conservatives talk. So anyway. But he's an authentic Trump-bashing journalist. He's the way a lot of conservatives talk. So anyway, but he's an authentic Trump-bashing journalist.

He's very young. How old are you? 26. But I want to ask, we're open for discussion, but the latest thing. Now you tell me where I'm wrong. So Donald Trump was Donald Trump, and he's sleeping with women.

Consensual relationships. He's a rich dude. We all know lots of rich dudes or comedians or it's like Dove Davidoff running for president. We all know men and whatever it is. Anybody who can. Anybody can. Then he decides to run for president. And these women

now want money. They say, hey, maybe I can come forward with these stories. So he looks for ways to pay them off. To me, he's the victim here. Why is he, like, what did he do wrong here? So my first thing I would dispute is that I'm a Trump-bashing journalist. I would say that I'm observing the world as it's happening and reporting on it. So why did you mock when I said he's the victim here? Because I don't see any way in which he's a victim.

First of all, the violation is possibly a campaign finance law violation. Okay, leave that aside. Because I have an answer for that, too. You're just talking about these women that he had consensual relationships. Are they saying they were consensual? I'm saying if I have an affair now with a woman, if I have an affair with you. Oh. First of all, just saying that, Noam, could get you me too'd right out of here. If I have an affair with you. Oh. First of all, just saying that, Noam, could get you me too right out of here.

If I had an affair with Steven. Yes. And in five years from now I run for president and he comes back and says, listen,

I have some evidence that you and I had an affair and give me a hundred grand and I won't go to the newspapers. I'd be a victim. So that's also

not how it happened though. They didn't try and shake him down. They were just going to tell their story to a news outlet. Why were they telling this? Really, that's... Why were they telling this? Because there's money to be made.

It's American. Why? Why is there money to be made? Because he's running... See, I don't have an issue... Why is there money to be made? Because he's running for president. Yeah, and I don't have...

By the way, I don't have an issue with his private life. So you don't... So up to... So forget about... Let's present... Let's just pretend for a second there's no FEC issue. Just for the sake of argument. Would you agree? Without that, he is the victim here. I don't think he's the victim. Well, tell me why issue. Just for the sake of argument. Would you agree?

Without that, he is the victim here. I don't think he's the victim. Well, tell me why not. That's the wrong terminology, I would say. What has he done wrong? This is a guy who's made money in every way possible in America. Don't change the subject. Are they doing something that's below that level of morality and legality?

You're not coming at me with anything. I'm saying the guy did nothing wrong. He's having a consensual affair. Then years later, the women want money. They didn't ask him for money, though. They just went to sell their store deal paper. They didn't have to take the money, either. The point is that he's not doing anything wrong.

First of all, he's in a marriage, so there is somebody that believes that. That's the only person that should matter to him. There is infidelity, which is fine. I mean, that's your business. That's like somebody coming in and being like, I don't want gay people to be married. Why? It's not your business.

Why do you even care if gay people get married? And every president, but go ahead. Yeah, so who cares? Who cares that he cheated on his wife? But the truth of the matter is, is that if you're an important person who is making astronomical mistakes and you have something to lose,

there's, you know's NDAs, there's all these other kind of ways of covering your tracks. That's what he tried to get them to sign. Sign NDAs. Okay. And then they did sign it, but then he might have violated the NDA when Michael Cohen made public the existence of the NDA. I'm just saying that the idea that a guy who had a consensual affair now finds himself

in a predicament where he has to pay the woman to keep quiet. This is not an evil intent of a guy. This is the guy saying, oh, shit, this woman is not going to be nice enough to keep what was private between us private. She's going to try to put money in her pocket at my expense. I'm going to try to intervene to pay the money so I'm not hurt. But it is a little weird.

And now I'm a bad guy for trying to protect my reputation. That's a victim. But isn't that weird? But you're making it like a black and white... Let the record show that he just rolled his eyes. I'll take that as done right. It's a lot weird, but who cares? I hate Trump, but this is so...

Am I right? Who cares about it? How do you grapple them? Unfortunately, people do. Now, give me the FEC. Go ahead, Liz. I was just saying, you're making him like this one-dimensional character.

He doesn't have any other influence in any other way. You know what I mean? You can be a person that has an affair, just happens to have a lot of money, has no policy in life or whatever, and you're narrowing him down to that, but he's not just this single-formed person. Speaking of other dimensions to it, have you grappled with Stormy Daniels' allegation that a man came up to her in a Las Vegas parking lot

and threatened her life in front of a shot? No, if that's true, that's outrageous. But that's not what's in the headline. This is part of a pattern of behavior of sort of thuggish conduct. Yeah, yeah. No, no. If you want to talk about that, I would not disagree with you. And if you listened to that tape last night, they're talking in a way that you most commonly associate with the mob.

This is what people do, and it's very frustrating. You've got to talk about one thing at a time. Otherwise, you're literally changing the subject. Now, what made me think of this was just before you came in, because David Froome tweeted, we haven't heard of a president paying hush money since Nixon.

I'm thinking, hush money since Nixon? Like, Trump trying to keep a consensual affair a secret is like Nixon paying off people to hide his criminality. This is the Trump derangement syndrome they're talking about. Now can we talk about the FEC and then we'll get on to something else. I would just say I don't have a major problem with his conduct in his private life. I just think this pattern of paying people off and maybe sending people to go talk to them is a worrying pattern for the president of the United States. It makes me nuts that we're talking about the president.

We're not even talking about the president of the school board. We don't have any standards anymore. We elected Donald Trump, a game show host or a reality show host and known philanderer as president. So, I mean, at some point we got to accept that this is who the man is. It's the frog saying to the scorpion, why'd you bite me? That's right.

He's a scorpion. I'm a scorpion. And let's move on. Let's not get agitated when he does things that, you know, when he's Donald Trump. And let's save our agitation for the really bad shit. But what's weird about it is because because isn't that technically, not technically, but like very similar to the Bill Clinton thing? Like Bill Clinton had a, what is believed to be a consensual infidelity in the White House and he got impeached.

And this guy is doing. He shouldn't have been impeached and he lied under oath. Okay. Lying under oath is unfortunately is a crime. But what is Trump doing? Noached, and he lied under oath. Okay, yeah. Lying under oath is, unfortunately, is a crime. What is Trump doing? No, he didn't lie under oath. Never. He's never lied under oath. No, in this instance, he has not lied under oath. But what I'm saying is I think

what people are doing is grabbing anything they can because he's making all these other offenses. And as a feminist, I would think that the Clinton having sex with his intern when he's her boss, and she's so young, she's his age, is a much bigger infraction than Trump having sex with a porn when he's her boss and she's so young. Oh, I'm not a fan of it. Is a much bigger infraction than Trump having sex with a porn star. Oh, I don't care about that.

That's not the infraction that I'm upset about. And, you know, I don't like the whataboutism, as they call it. But, you know, I'm sure if we knew the whole story behind the Mark Rich pardon, we would find a story which is every bit as unseemly as anything we suspect that Trump has done. I just think the worrying thing is We can't jump back decades. I'm not a fan of that. I just think it's worrying that the FDR ran around on his wife

and he was in a wheelchair. The bar has been lowered so much that now we're just debating, well, was it illegal or was it just totally unethical and weird? No, I say he was the victim. He was a man. Ah, that's a heavy word. That's a heavy word. It is a heavy word.

If you have a consensual affair, if you've ever done something wrong in your life. Today? Something that was private in your life. Right. That somebody then, years later, was going to use to hurt you. And you didn't hurt them. You didn't hurt them. They're finding a way to use you to hurt you

to put money in their pockets. I have a hard time believing Trump never hurt any of these women. I'm talking about this in this instance. Well, she's not claiming. She says it was consensual. She says that she knew he was married. She went to his apartment. The second you change the fact pattern

and you can show me something where he did do something wrong, I'll say you're right. I think you've got to factor in that it makes her nuts that he completely denies the entire thing, like it never happened. Like every dude, you know. Every dude, right, you know. Are you going to believe your lying eyes?

You know what I mean? So now the FEC, I think that's actually, I don't know anything about the law, but to me, for a guy who's always had NDAs, this is a recurring pattern with him. I don't think how, I don't see how this is a campaign expense. For instance.

Well, it's an in-kind contribution to his campaign because it suppresses negative information that would have affected the outcome of the election. You can say that, but I don't believe that would hold. Because I think this is just. That's the argument. I don't think it holds. In my mind, let's say he had herpes. And she was going to come forward with something very personal about him. And he paid her.

Would he then have to put on his FEC form, I paid off so she wouldn't talk about herpes? Well, probably not in that level of detail. No. I'm saying if it's private, it's private. But what if he painted his house because he knew he was going to get a new screen? What if he gets a checkup because he wants to get new exercise equipment because I'm going to run for office? First of all, that's just the law.

You have to report your campaign expenses. No, the law is probably not at all written that way. It's probably very clear. They're talking about real campaign expenses and you can try to stretch these things, like the Rico statues. And everything can be stretched. But the fact is that a guy was doing what he's always done, which is to pay off women

to keep it quiet. But he wasn't always running for president. I understand that, but isn't this... What you're saying is that he had to admit this to the country. No. I don't see that. I'm not a lawyer about that. They've repeatedly lied about whether he knew about it. Then they were like, oh, of course

he knew about it. And that was because they were facing a campaign finance violation because otherwise Michael Cohen would have made a contribution. Are we still upset by the way about his meeting with Putin or have we completely moved on to this week? This is much more important than that.

He wrote an article. I want to know if we've moved on completely or if we're still juggling both. I'll talk about that too. He wrote an article just making fun of poor Alan Dershowitz and his Martha's Vineyard thing. Where's Alan? Is he not here on the show? He's not here today.

Did you hear about Alan Dershowitz complaining that nobody in Martha's Vineyard will talk to him about it anymore? Talk to him anymore? Yeah. He's full. Everybody's full. You know, I'm full. Aren't you full? Full of what? No, I love it. I love this stuff. I live for it every day. I'm telling you the truth.

But I thought your article didn't convince me. Oh, I thought it was funny. I didn't read it. You read his article? Yeah, I thought it was hilarious. And it is. I mean, here's somebody being like, nobody wants to hang out with me because I made choices that affect the entire country. Like, that's pretty much, you know what I mean?

I don't think he was, well, I don't know that he was complaining about people not wanting to hang out with him. He wrote an op-ed in a national newspaper complaining that he's being shunned by his friends on Martha's Vineyard. I don't think he was complaining so much as saying, look what it's come to. It's an exercise in grotesque narcissism. It deserves to be mocked.

Well, let me tell you what I thought you got wrong. You said, and I think I'm on firm ground here, it's going to hurt. I hate to think about him being uncomfortable on Martha's Vineyard. Yeah, exactly. Tell me more of your problems. That's fine. It's an easy target to mock, and we're living in a snark society. And you're right, if you want to look at it.

But the fact is, you said that he was totally off-base by calling it McCarthyism because he's not a government official. No, it's not being— He's not losing his job. The punishment he's facing is not being exacted by public officials. That is not what McCarthyism is. But it's other private citizens just saying, I don't want to have drinks with you. That's what McCarthyism was. No, it was a government official leading.

But do you know what McCarthyism is? You're talking about a template is what you're talking about. McCarthyism is a term, and if you look it up, you're going to see it. It's a term that's used for sliming people with innuendo without evidence. But it's a specific reference. And using it, yes, and using it as a way against them in their personal lives such that the directors... So who's sliming him? The directors that were blacklisted in Hollywood, this was called McCarthyism.

There was no government official involved in that. Joe McCarthy is who it's named after. Yes, but... He was the chair of a special committee leading the Red Scare. The cause of it. But isn't...

But the truth of the matter is... It's absurd. He hasn't lost his job. He can't not... He can go grocery shopping. He can feed his family. Well, he wasn't saying otherwise. He just...

He was simply saying that friends are turning against friends, and this is to him concerning. And I don't think he was saying anything more than that. He's certainly not the only guy where friends are turning against friends. But I think friends turning against friends is something worth talking about.

When friends start not talking to each other, this is as a nation, this is something we need to look at and say, well, okay, you know, this is getting pretty bad. I was talking to Jackie just before the show. He said, well, you know, if you were president, what would you do? I don't have any solutions, but I think the first thing we need to do as a nation is to stop hating each other

because I do think that's the most dangerous threat. Can I read the definition of McCarthyism? McCarthyism is the practice of making... We hateversion or treason without proper regard for evidence. So who made an accusation against him of subversion or treason? The term is taken on a broader meaning, describing the excesses of similar efforts. The term is now also used generally to describe reckless, unsubstantiated accusations and attacks on character or pages of adversaries. This is not, that is, you're too young I guess, that is what McCarthyism, when somebody says it's McCarthyism, it does not mean that the government did something to you.

So you think this rises to the level of smearing someone as a communist, destroying their career as a director in Hollywood? No, I think that when you say that he couldn't call McCarthyism because it wasn't a government who did it to him, it shows that you don't understand that you weren't clear on what the meaning of McCarthyism is. What do you mean it's ridiculous?

I'm just reading the definition. You disagree with the definition? I disagree with the level of, you know, pain that he's going through that somehow... Now, I don't know that he said he was going through great pain. He made the statement. He made the statement, my friends aren't talking to me. I don't believe, and I hadn't read it,

that he said he was in great pain. He made the point that Americans are at war with each other. It's a cold war, but Americans are at war with each other, and they're not talking, and he felt that this was something... I think he's making a bigger point than that. What point is he making? But I don't recall him saying, woe is me, I'm being persecuted.

He wrote a thousand page op-ed about his persecution. He wrote a thousand page op-ed about not being included in Martha's Vineyard social. Wine tasting. Let me tell you. But that doesn't mean he was saying woe. Maybe they think he's a pain in the ass. All right, go ahead, Noah.

Let me tell you what I think he's saying. He's saying that... I mean, there's a broad context here. Years ago, he was involved in defending the Nazis who wanted to march in Skokie, Illinois. And he was considered a great hero by liberals at that time. Now here he is, years later. He's simply making arguments about what he's right. He's not getting personal. He's not bending facts, whatever it is. And rather than take him on on his arguments, and we had a debate here where he was on one side and David French and Asha Rangappa was on the other side, and I wasn't there, but by all accounts, he more than held his own, and most people said he won the debate.

I think he makes good arguments around civil liberties and the excesses of special counsel powers. And he's saying that merely for making objective legal arguments rather than say, you know, Alan, we really disagree with you, but we know you all these years, and I'm not going to hold it against you because you disagree with me. These erudite elite people are shunning him. But he's not just doing that.

Yes, he is just doing that. So today he was on defending that Essential Consultants LLC, which Cohen first used as a series of payoff mechanisms and then used as a slush fund where corporations would pay him $400,000 for access to Donald Trump. So he was on Fox News today defending that as, he was mostly defending the payoffs, but he was saying it's a normal procedure.

It happens all the time. He's advised dozens of clients. I just think we're going beyond the scope of civil liberties. Do you know that it's not? No, I don't, but now you're out of the separate argument. Then what's wrong with what he said? Because he's saying that it's a civil liberties issue. He's not defending civil liberties.

Is there something he said that's false in your mind? Yes, so he was on a Boston area radio show. It's not the prior thing you just said that you think is false. You can tell me now what you think he said that was false. Well, I think it's false that it's regular practice in presidential campaigns to set up an LLC in Delaware to pay off women that you've slept with. I have a feeling if I look into this, it's not going to be... Impossible violation of campaign finance law.

It's not going to have happened quite the way. So you think this happens all the time, but we haven't heard about it? We only hear about it now? Let me give you an example. Let me give you an example when he was outright false. Okay, please. He smeared Robert Mueller while discussing the Whitey Bulger trial. The Boston field office of the FBI was corrupt during the Whitey Bulger era

and sent four men to jail unjustly uh... basically protect what he bold because he was that the i informant and it was a huge corruption issue because it's you know he had connections the government uh... robert more was in the field office at the time and he has been spear now driving media and by alan dershowitz on a radio show as having been complicit in that effort and i've been played a role the judge who oversaw the lawsuit by the men falsely charged

who won a $100 million judgment that that judge wrote said Robert Mueller had no involvement in this case. It is complete fabrication. When confronted with that, Alan Dershowitz doubled down and said the only reason the judge could say that is because she's an anti-Trump partisan. So he is not merely... Oh, the judge wrote it now? Yeah, she came out and said... That's not on hisTrump partisan. So he is not merely... The judge wrote it now.

That's not on his face. False. You don't know. She said Robert Mueller was never mentioned in any of the documents any of the case. He made that up and he would not retract it. Three things. First of all, you could be right. I just buried you. First of all, I just said you could be right.

That was in my article. First of all, you could be right because it may be exactly as you say. That George Bush is knowingly and intentionally lying. And he can get it wrong, but he has to say, I was wrong. Two, it could be that he knows the facts about the case that you don't know. And just because this woman happens to say it 20 years later. She was the judge presiding over the lawsuit. She wrote the judgment.

I understand that, but people say whatever it is. That she could be, that he could be, he could feel differently. I believe that if he was sitting here where I'm sitting, he would have no facts to offer. No, I said that he makes good arguments, especially around special counsel.

I don't think any of those people on Martha's Vineyard are objecting to him because they feel that he smeared Mueller. They're objecting to him because of things like defending, he's saying that the president can fire Comey with or without a reason. That Dershowitz feels that, for instance, his Trump son, which son met with the Velikskaya?

Don Jr. That he's saying he can go meet with somebody who claims to have evidence from Russia, just like a journalist could go meet with them, and that's not a crime. And people lose their minds when Dershowitz says, listen, you may

not like it, but it's not a crime. I think their problem with him is that they see him on TV almost every day now, defending the president in some capacity, whether it's on legitimate civil liberties grounds or special counsel. You know, somebody has to... He can defend the president as much as he wants, but they don't have to hang out with him.

They don't have to hang out with him. But they loved him when he was defending Nazis. This is my point. I don't think he would. That's why McCarthyism. I don't think he's saying they have to. Is that McCarthyism or is that how friendship changes? I don't understand.

They're allowed to have opinions. We all have friends that come and go. That just happens. If we are friends and I go on TV every day saying something you don't like, do you have to hang out with me still? Or is that McCarthyism? I don't know that Dershowitz said they have to hang out with him. I'm not even sure Dershowitz said

he was devastated by it. He was making the point and I think the only point he was making is people really are divided right now and they go crazy and flip their wigs sometimes when all I, you know, every now and again I go on Facebook, and I don't know why, and I defend Trump, not because I'm a Trump supporter, but because, you know, I don't need to be the hundred billionth person to post Trump is bad.

I want to, I feel my own, you know, if I have something to say that not everybody's saying, I want to say it. So I might say something defending something Trump did, and everybody just assumes that I'm this. Right across the board. Right across the board. I love Trump and, you know, get immediately attacked. And they lose their minds. And they lose their minds.

See, I have friends who are Republicans and some that still support Trump, and I choose still to hang out with them. But that's my choice. Other people can choose to change their relationship. Yes, and I don still to hang out with them. But that's my choice. Other people can choose. I don't think Dershowitz said it wasn't their choice. He's just saying people kind of get nutty and friendships are... Everybody has different levels of sensitivity. I think you guys

are being way too... The point is that Dershowitz in circles of high learning you would imagine that people could tolerate somebody's good faith, difference of opinion on a point of law and civil liberties.

And that if you disagree with it, you could say, listen, I really disagree with you and give, and here's why. Dershowitz, nobody is really taking him on on his arguments. A little bit here and there. He's asking,

please, Morning Job, have me on, I want to debate you. Lawrence Tribe, please do it. He's begging people to debate him. Nobody wants to debate him. And they hate him. This is similar to Jonathan Haidt, who was on our show. We said he was afraid. I believe he said he was afraid to have an American flag.

Didn't he say something like that? He was afraid to have an American flag bumper sticker. No, I don't think that was hype. He said something like that because he thought his friends at NYU would look down on him. But it was similar. So strongly symbolic.

Social shaming is what we're talking about. And it's a real thing. Everybody's self-censoring. It's worth discussing. And again, I don't think Dershowitz wants you to feel bad for him or is saying his friends are legally or morally

obligated to still be friends with him, but he's saying that these divisions are happening and it's something that I think is worth discussing. Well, I think he does want you to feel bad for him. I mean, it's not just this argument in a vacuum. I'd have to talk to him. It's not this argument in a vacuum where he's making these arguments about his personal

life that he has no stake in. He wouldn't have written this if he wasn't affected by it. The stake is that isn't it sad that friendships are ending because And that is really sad. I agree that's sad. It is sad. That friendships are ending. I think it's deeper than that. I think he's saying these people

are ridiculous because they're grown intellectuals and they have lost their minds. They can't even listen to an opposing argument. I think you guys are having this discussion. By the way, an opposing argument by somebody who has a 40-year track record of being on the side of good and right.

So it ought to cut him a little slack if this one time, after all the defending of civil rights and minorities and all that, this one time he doesn't see it quite their way. They shun him. So you think that's objectively true rather than you're reading on it? No, I think that's what he was saying in the column.

I don't know. I'm not in Martha's Vineyard to say whether it's true or not. Let's interview him. I think this is happening a little bit in a vacuum where we're not taking into account that the reason people are reacting so strongly is that they feel like these stakes are higher than in previous political eras. So he shouldn't defend them even if he thinks it's right. No, he should do what he wants, but when people react strongly to that, it's probably because they have a perception of the world.

You know, it's like when he was defending O.J. and when he was defending Von Bulow, and I think it's very similar. You know, when you defend somebody that everybody hates, you're tarred with that brush. So you don't think any of this is that he likes being on TV? You think this is all civil liberties? I'm not a mind reader, and I'm not going to psychoanalyze it. I'm telling him I think that he's making good intellectual arguments. I agree with that.

And that anybody who would hold that against him is a jackass. And if somebody with a law degree or an intellectual degree holds it against him, they should be ashamed of themselves. I think that you are assuming they hold that against him is a jackass. And if somebody with a law degree or an intellectual degree holds it against him, they should be ashamed of themselves. I think that you are assuming they hold that against him. I think that they... You think they don't like him? I think they think they don't like him, or they think that he's arguing in bad faith.

I'll give you an example of something I said one time. What if he sucks outside of his policies? You're a feminist, so you're probably going to get mad now. I'll tell you something I stupidly said on the show one time. But somebody lost their mind. I should repeat the something. I stupidly sat on the show one time, but somebody lost their mind. I should repeat the story, but this is the kind of thing where you're not allowed

to think out loud or say out loud. Somebody came in and said on the show what we've heard a million times. Rape is about power. It's not about sex. I've heard this my whole life. And I said, I've heard that always, I say, how do we know that? Because

I thought, when somebody violently robs somebody, we don't ever say, it's about power, it's not about the greed for the money. And every man has been filled with lust, and if you have that, every person, and if you have that and a disregard for,

you know, not committing violence on somebody, you might just rape somebody for the lust. And this, so I said that to a feminist. I think she walked off the show.

And I was like, and of course I'm so stupid, I'm like, Stephen, I didn't mean to offend her. I'm asking like, explain it to me. You put it on the table. Right. And that's what, so Dershowitz is doing a similar thing and they're reacting in the same way. They're like, Stephen, I didn't mean to offend her. I'm asking, like, explain it to me. You put it on the table.

Right. So Dershowitz is doing a similar thing, and they're reacting in the same way. They're like, what the fuck? It's Trump. How can you even expect us to question it? Get the fuck out of here. No, I will say this, and I'm 100% on your side for this. You're not allowed to have discussions anymore.

If you make a point and someone doesn't like it, they jump down your throat. That's Dershowitz's point. And so I completely understand that. But we don't know, first of all, that this isn't a bunch of micro-indiscretions that turned into macro-indiscretions that turned into them not liking this policy or how he treats policy

or how he talks about it on TV. Sorry, I'm short. But the other thing is that I completely agree that people aren't able to talk about anything anymore and they're not allowed to make mistakes and they're not allowed to grow I mean the one thing I liked about that's a good way to put it and what I what I took away I'm a huge Chappelle fan and one of the things I really enjoyed about I can't remember what's special but he talked about you're going to have to accept imperfect allies. And that's not just in the feminist movement, in the Me Too movement, that's in all movements. In anything.

And things are changing. Like, I have friends that have transitioned, and I've had to take away a lot of vocabulary that I very nicely was told, that doesn't make me feel good. I don't appreciate it. Instead of being jumped down, somebody taught me. And that only happened probably because we're friends. I'm sure in different instances, whether it's online or they don't know them,

they're aggressive about it. So I think the biggest problem... Or they just write you off. Exactly. So I think the biggest thing with the Trump supporters and more liberal sides is that people don't want to listen. People are hurt. People are angry. Things are getting taken away. And they make assumptions and they jump down their throat.

They don't want to learn. And they attack you personally. I had a situation. I might have talked about it. Well, I have a friend who's transitioning. And he was keeping it a secret. And somebody got a hold of it. And I felt and spread it around right among the people that he was clearly trying to keep it a secret from.

And he's an old, dear friend of mine. And I confronted this dude, and I said, why did you out so-and-so? You could have just spoken to him. And his answer to me was, as a gay man, I resent you telling me about outing. And, you know, he immediately resorted to that, and I got furious. I said, how dare you pull that card? I said, here, he was trying to keep it a secret. And, you know, he immediately resorted to that, and I got furious. I said, how dare you pull that card? I said, here, he was trying to keep it a secret. And that's his choice. The people he was trying to keep

it a secret from know about it because of you. And I'm saying, you outed him, and your only answer is to attack me as some sort of bigot. You know, I have no right to... Because he'd take that as a person, not as a gay man. Yeah. You know, so, it's a whole mixture

of identity politics and character assassination and a cultural acceptance of people not holding people to the obligation. You know what? Calm down

and make some reasoned arguments. But I think... Including Dershowitz is like everybody. There used to be a time when people had a lot more tolerance had a lot more tolerance and a lot more expectation

that somebody had to answer you directly in a logical way. And I think you have to take into account the structural issues in play, too. And that's why I didn't like

your articles because it was, you mostly just... You're all of them. No, because it would have been fine. Like, you're right optically. He's going,

oh, poor me. I'm Martha's Vineyard with all my money. But then I thought it would have been fair at least... But again, I don't know if that was the tone of the article. No, but I'm saying, okay, you want to make that observation, it's fine. But then at least be fair to him and make the best presentation of his argument.

I said in my article that he made solid arguments around special counsel overreach and civil liberties when it comes to these investigations. And that he had been consistent in his opposition to Bill Clinton's special prosecutor situation. All right, fair enough, fair enough. And this. All I said was that writing this op-ed in The Hill was a little silly to me. I understand. The McCarthyism thing is what really set me off. But go ahead, sorry.

Yeah, but I mean, I interpreted that more in the strict governmental definition. And I see your point about how this is leading to the divisiveness, but I think there are a lot more factors in play than just this interpersonal conflict. By the way, I know it probably infuriates you and you find it arrogant of me to say it's an issue of age, but actually, it really is an issue of age. Because when you're my age and you've heard the term McCarthyism your whole life, I know what it means in a way that you wouldn't know. I'm trying to be kind about it that way. But rest assured, Gnome is condescending to you

because you're young, but he'd much rather be your age. No, I'm not saying it's because you're not smart or because you're uninformed or whatever. You just haven't lived what I'm saying yet. Gnome only has a few years left. It's just about over, isn't it? And actually, he's going to suck the youth out of you

after the show. That's what we call a callback in the comedy business. That's why we're both here. I'm just saying that to only extrapolate that this is some... I was going to say he's got a good voice. Yeah, he does.

Jackie, what are you doing? I've heard this before. You guys going to set it up for me? He's got a rich timber. Is it the word timber? Do you see him just disarm you? Timber sounds like a hot dog. After he slipped in the age barb, then he got the voice.

And then he rubs his arm against your face. Do you work out? By the way, Paul Mercurio has arrived. So go ahead. Finish your point, and then we'll pulse it down. Go ahead.

I would only say that this is not merely some sort of interpersonal disagreement where people just are meaner to each other now. There are structural issues in terms of how people are being fed information or getting information. That is the biggest source of the divide to me, the red feed, blue feed thing, where we no longer even operate off of the same set of facts or the same reality. And I think that is a more powerful factor than, you know, people getting meaner to each other,

which is sort of the vibe I got from this Dershowitz thing. We're going to ask you to let Paul sit down. Trump's going to last four years or not? Yeah, I think he'd be re-elected. Okay, Paul, thank you very much. I didn't hear a word he just said because I was listening to his voice. You said it.

It was a remarkable voice. By the way, you know who else has a beautiful tone in his voice? Donald Trump. Boy. Lighten up, Norm. That's a hot take. That's a hot take. All right, Jack. Go ahead, go ahead.en up, Norm. Lighten up. Back off. That's a hot take. That's a hot take. All right, Jack.

But actually. Go ahead. Go ahead. Jack Holmes, everybody. You can read his bylines regularly in. Esquire.com. Esquire.com. Thank you, guys.

Appreciate it. Hang out and have a drink. Paul, come out. The rumor has it that you have a Broadway show. Come here, Paul. Jackie, you know Paul Mercurial? I don't know. He's a legend.

He's an Emmy Award winner. I'm sorry. He wanted to tell you. I'm sure we've met a million times. He's also a regular, I believe, on Anthony Acuma's broadcast. Okay. Paul, can I say why? Actually, I'm not supposed to talk about that thing in your past?

No, you can say whatever you want. Paul is the guy who was with Opie and Anthony who were having sex in St. Patrick's Cathedral. Oh, congratulations. You remember that? And they lost this. I absolutely remember that. I wasn't the guy having the sex.

I was one of the spotters, like, calling in for points. And, you know. That was a whole... I had such a problem with that. Because if you're not a religious person, that's just a fucking building. It's just a building. People having sex in a building.

You know, that's a good point. No one's ever said that. The problem I had was that it was the third year they were doing the contest. It was signed off on by the station. And all of a sudden the station's like, you did what? Everybody was pointing at it. I didn't know that. And I was in jail overnight.

I was in jail for a night. For being the spotter? Yeah. They arrested the three of us. Loser. At least I didn't even get laid out of it. Not even in jail? Yeah, not even in jail.

Now we're rolling. Although it was funny. They did bring me. It was just like Law & Order. They brought me into a little room. It was really hot Law and Order, they brought me into like a little room. It was really hot, it was August, and the guy... One little window. Yeah, I'm telling you, it was like a tiny desk, and it was like big, big, two big detectives, and the guy takes his big hand and he goes,

You think that's funny? Having sex in the church? What would your mother say? And he slams on the thing, and I went, well, my mother doesn't go to church. Don't be a wiseass! Meanwhile, he's got a cross. Well, you know what he wanted me to do? There was a pre-production meeting. I'm using air quotes because Anthony was playing video games. Nobody was paying attention.

And he goes, just tell us whose idea this was and we'll let you go. I'm like, so you want me to rat out my friends for a public indecency charge? I'm not going to do that. But the problem was that nobody supported each other after it happened. Well, usually they'd all be taking credit for the bit. They threw him under the bus. They threw him under the bus, Paul. Let's be honest.

Yeah, they did a little bit for a while. You know what happened was I had to threaten the company because before we went out, somebody was videotaping a girl blowing her boyfriend, and the president of sam adams was there who was a sponsor of it by the way you know what you want if you won the contest if you were the couple a two-day trip to boston to to visit the sam adams brewery that was what you got so i had to go to the station and say i think i see what you're doing he goes well i go you didn't send us and the poor couple was like this couple from west virginia that had never been to a big

city before i go like we're sitting in jail all night you got you got a million lawyers on payroll oh well you know I go look don't don't fuck around he goes well I go look I because literally at this point my wife called because CNN all the all the press had come to my they they published my address anyway and so the press was at my house. And I said, I'm going to just go to the press and tell them that there's videotape of a woman blowing her boyfriend. And the guy from Sam Adams is standing there drinking a beer. Tell me how that's going to play with his customers. They go, oh, okay.

And then they got me a lawyer. But it was just kind of really shitty. I love when everybody gets appalled. And meanwhile, all the people getting appalled are people without a religious bone in their fucking body. Well, you know, Anthony said something interesting. I mean, Anthony said it was kind of due like six months earlier. They had done the Boyer bus incident where there was women naked showering in the bus to drive around the city. And Jim Norton and Louis Black got arrested.

And so when you have those kind of shows, shock shows, I think you have to keep pushing the boundaries. Right. Right. Of course. So he said, you know, Jackie's been stirring, you know that, right? Yeah, I know. You're welcome. But they didn't get along, Howard and those guys, right? There was like a tension between those guys.

Howard and Open Anthony. Just because they were new kids on the block. You know, it's so funny because when I started the Stern show, Howard went off the wall because the morning guy, Don Imus, said I don't want him saying my name, I don't want him referring to me, and he was the wall because the morning guy, Don Imus, said, I don't want him saying my name. I don't want him referring to me. And he was the king of the hill. So Howard couldn't do anything.

And then when Opie and Anthony came around, Howard was like, I don't want them using my name. It was Animal House. You know what I mean? It was exact 180. Well, this is, you know, I've had this experience and I think it's comparable. When it's your thing, you begin to get very, very protective of it. And people who look at you are like, why are you getting so sensitive? But when you've worked as hard as you have to get somewhere, it drives you crazy when somebody tries to leech off it in any way.

It's like, build your own fucking name. I did it on my own. Don't, because he knows, Howard knows. So we've had experiences here where people accused us of, you know, competition is good. You should want your competitors to do well. I was like, come bullshit. I don't want my competitors to do well. I have nothing against them. I respect them.

Well, I mean, whatever. They should do it. Well, the reason you should want your competitors to do well, in a sense, is. It's for you guys....is because the comics in New York City, if New York is a place the comics want to be, that benefits you. Listen, I... Also, one club can't make a career. I mean, I have to leave to make a living.

I can't actually pay my bills just doing clubs in the city. So the point is, is the more clubs that are successful, the more likely Liz Miele will be around. That is true. I'm never here. The fact is, yes, and people know what they're supposed to say,

but if you give sodium pentothal to almost anybody, they will tell you, of course I don't want my competitors to do well. Also, if the comedy seller... That's right.

Howard, that was one of his premises. If the comedy seller is the only... Everybody's rooting for the other guy to not do well. That's what he's... Yes!

That was him. By the way, would you rather the comedy seller be the number one club in a vibrant comedy scene or the number one club with no other clubs? He makes a good point. I think everybody wins. If people hear about comedy in New York, the tourists, they come.

If multiple clubs are thriving, it's not just good for us, it's just, I think, good for the business overall Not knowing, I'd say it'd be much better for everybody, for everybody to be doing well, but I don't own the club, if I was you I'd probably... No, I would like to be the number one club in a vibrant

scene, but not because I wish well on my competitors, but because I know if there's a vibrant scene, then there's more longevity in the industry, but you know, I'm not sitting there cursing my competitors, I'm just saying people are full of shit about this stuff scene, then there's more longevity in the industry. I'm not sitting there cursing my competitors. I'm just saying people are full of shit about this stuff. They always say things for public

consumption. Paul, you have a Broadway show. Is this really Broadway, Broadway? Like with Fiddler and Guys and Dolls and Paul Mercurio? It's on Broadway. Is it on its way or it's up? It's up. Well, it is and it isn't. Tonight, we had previews last week.

Monday night, this week was opening night. And a homeless guy lit a fire in a stairwell. And there was a fire in the theater and we had to cancel the shows this week. Oh, God. No. Well, what's the shoe? What's that? What's the shoe?

You must be crushed. Yeah, I'm really Jesus that's a horrible story yeah because we've been working really really hard we have publicists

we've been really and we had good numbers and you know it's just hard to do any entertainment in this city was somebody did somebody do it

or was really a homeless guy apparently it was a guy was it a Kumia fan? it was it was Opie. And no, apparently there was like, he went up a stairwell and there was this one door that was supposed to be locked. It was like a closet with machinery in it.

And he lit a fire in it because they told him to get out of the stairwell. And I'm in there at 430 and we're rehearsing and then all of a sudden there's smoke coming in and I'm on a conference call and I'm like, ah, this is probably just like a computer caught fire. And the next thing you know,

the place is filled with smoke. But you don't suspect sabotage or anything like that. No, no, no. It was just a guy that was angry and just got back at them. And so, you know,

we had all this buildup to this week and opening night and we had press come in and I think I sent you the Wall Street Journal thing. Yeah, I sent you over my Facebook feed and everything. And you were going to ask me what kind of show it is? Yeah, we're the Amish. We're going to build you a bar, and we'll help you.

What's the show? It's an audience, completely audience interactive show where I talk to people in the audience. It's not a crowd work show. I bring them on stage randomly and talk to them. Because what I've been finding is when I do it, I'm getting these incredible stories from people that aren't just funny but human. And not to sound

schmaltzy, but like... It's a theater show. It has a beginning and end. There's a really cool set that was designed... His last is tears. I hate you so much. You're saying people are interesting. Is that what you're saying? It's the humans of New York on Broadway with Paul McCurdy. there's tears yeah shut up I hate you so much are you saying people are interesting is that what you're saying no here so here's a story it's the humans of New York

on Broadway with Paul McCurry well this could be your Nanette it's Paul maybe oh let's talk about Nanette have you seen Nanette

so let me tell you a story for example I was in Minnesota doing stand up and I brought a woman on stage she's a lesbian I said is your partner here

she said yeah well the partner came up I said how long have you been married they go a couple years how'd you meet they start giggling I figure okay well there partner here? She said, yeah. Well, the partner came up. I said, how long have you been married? They go, a couple of years. How'd you meet? They start giggling. I figure, okay, well, there's a story. She said, the partner said, well, I was married. I have three kids, married to a guy. We met at a softball game. You know, one thing led to another. We struck up an affair. I divorced my husband. We got married and we all live in the same house together with my

ex-husband. And we sleep in the bed that my ex-husband and we sleep in the bed that my ex-husband and i slept in with the three kids in the same house and everybody was like holy fuck that's a 50 ticket you know what i mean what's your drink shut up and so you know so anyway yeah you're really helping me right now just burn it down a church. We're making a lot of jerk-off movements. Am I online? I think I got a fire to start. So anyway, you know, there's like, you know, that kind of stuff. And then we had a 67-year-old couple last Tuesday night, married a year. I said, how's your marriage? They said, great.

It's like an open marriage. I go, oh, you see other people? And they're like, no, we're just very open sexually. And we explore. What kind of marriage is that? And then it turns out that he's a dom and she's a sub, and they play these S&M role-playing games. Yeah, that made the same face Jackie just made.

This was three minutes into the show. I'm making a face because I'm thinking I've got to try it. There's the last people you would expect. Like the people that look like you. Did you ever do role-playing? Yeah, you're thinking they're married 35 years. Have you ever done role-playing sexually? I was in Leverage.

What? I'm boring. Have you ever? No. Have you ever? What, role-playing in bed? Yeah. I certainly have.

I've cried. Does that count? It's so weird to me. What was your role-playing? I'd rather not say, but I'll tell you after the show. Come on. Because people tend to look askance at certain things. It's too late. You can't put this master-slave

roleplay? It wasn't quite master-slave. What was it? Were you the woman? I'd rather not say. Was this Holocaust... What was it? Concentration camp? But the words, show daddy what you did with the boys in school might have come up.

Interesting. Incest. It's incest play. In any case, let's talk about Nanette. Dan, this is amazing. Your idea or you were just indulging the woman? As I recall, it was her idea. Oh, okay.

I feel so bored. I've never been tied up. I never did any of that. You can still do that. We don't even use a vibrator or anything. Never too young. Do you use a vibrator? No?

Do I use a vibrator? With the wife. My wife you're fucking talking about. What the hell's the matter with you? Well, you just brought it up. Why can't we talk about your life? He's not married. What difference does it make?

I don't use one. We don't use one. Years ago before we were married, we had a... I can't. What'd you do? Retire the vibrator? Yeah, it ran out of batteries. Nobody ever changed them.

Yeah, that is. That was a good answer. That was a good answer. You're still sitting there. Well, now I feel like, you know, I feel stupid because I revealed something about my sexuality and nobody else did. So maybe somebody else would be nice enough to reveal their freakiest fantasy. No, let's talk about...

I'm not dumb. Huh. I'm not dumb. I'm not dumb. You're not dumb. I'm not going to talk about that stuff. You just say no. I slept with a one-legged woman. Is that true? Of course it's true. Was that a turn on in any way? It shows me that nobody read

my goddamn book. You were Paul McCartney. No, not only... It's so funny because I was obviously so drunk, I had no idea what I did or didn't do. I just woke up in the morning and here's this woman, you know, with no

other leg, and I went into the bathroom and sat in the bathroom and in the corner of the bathroom was the leg. I mean, from thigh down, like a leg, a goddamn leg, leaning against the corner. And so my bathroom at this house

I lived in had another door. I went out, jumped in the car, went to see a girl I had been seeing and wound up living with her for two years just because I was running from the one-legged woman. Was she missing an arm, the other woman? The interesting part of the story is, years later, I break up with the girl and I'm living with a drunk

and a heroin addict. And this guy was, one of the roommates was so drunk he came home with a girl with one leg and he didn't fucking know. And I woke up in the morning because I was always drunk. Went in I swear on my mother. Sat on the toilet because I always

sat down in the morning because otherwise I'd fall down. And in the corner was this... It might have been the same fucking leg. I'm like, once a lifetime. Fine. Not twice. There it was. I thought you were sitting down in the morning because you had morning wood.

Oh. Like we all do. Why do you sit down? If you have morning wood It's sometimes easy to pee If you're sitting down You know you're right But you gotta have

I had a bit on one of my albums They use a seat to hold it down You become the bobbing duck Remember those bobbing ducks? Sorry Liz You don't think I've been around comics For 15 years? Right

Oh Never talk about Now Nanette is a bit controversial because Michael Che. Well, Michael Che recently said that he's tired of what he calls stand-up tragedy and that it's not comedy to talk about tragic things that happen in your life when there's no punchline within 100 miles. Well, it isn't. You don't agree with that? It's a one-woman show. I agree that it's not comedy

but it is still a valid thing it's a valid form of art a valid art form I think what bothers me is that I did the Edinburgh Fringe Festival two years ago

as soon as I saw that the quotes were like Edinburgh Fringe Festival I knew it's a one woman show so I went in knowing it was a one woman show I also had two comic friends ago. I couldn't get past 10 minutes.

I had another friend that couldn't get past 26. We tried to watch it again. She fell asleep at 26 minutes again. It's an okay comedy special that would have probably been good if it was 20 minutes. And it's a pretty good one-woman show. Hey, Gilbert. Gilbert Godfrey. You're talking about Nanette?

Nanette. I actually... You want to sit down, Gilbert? There are definitely components of it that are... Gilbert, come sit down. Gilbert, you want to join us? Paul, you'll come back. Come on, Gilbert.

Well, I don't make the poor man if he doesn't want to join us. I've asked Gilbert to do the show, and he's always skittish about it. He's never given me an enthusiastic yes that's when you ask have you seen Nanette Gilbert the Netflix special that everybody's talking about Hannah Gadsby's Nanette no

you haven't seen it it's a Netflix special where Hannah Gadsby talks about her experiences as a lesbian woman. In Tasmania. In Tasmania. Which I think is important to talk about because she's coming from a place of it was literally illegal to be gay in her country. Like, I think that's where she's approaching it from. I think there's definitely good aspects of it.

I think it was like,'s approaching it from. I think there's definitely good aspects of it. I think it was, like, okay. I can definitely identify. I don't do characters, by the way, but I did come up with a character called Hannah Dice Gadsby. Hickory dickory dock. I was bullied and harassed nonstop. The clock, now I'm talking like Gilbert. Yeah.

The clock struck true, too. I stood to myself. I stayed true. And now I'm as strong as a rock. Oh! I was depressed. I didn't wear a dress. Oh! By the way, I just

think it's remarkable that we're still talking about dice 35 years on or 30 years on. If we're being politically incorrect, I'm telling Gilbert a joke because I always tell Gilbert a joke when I see him. I got a joke I haven't told him yet. Go ahead. Okay. Two cops pull over two priests

and the cop comes up to the window and the priest says, can I help you officer? And the cop says, we're looking for two child molesters. And the cop comes up to the window. And the priest says, can I help you, officer? And the cop says, we're looking for two child molesters. And the priest looks at the other priest. And he turns and he says, we'll do it. So, Gilbert, so this lesbian woman has made it. She did a show. And basically the last half hour

is just like her really, basically just telling the story of her sexual assault and stuff. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's that simple. I think she's taught, her whole...

It sounds funny so far. It's fine, it's just not a comedy show. I agree. It's good. It's just not, it's like almost mislabeled. It's like putting,

you know, singer-songwriter in hip hop. I thought it was riveting and I don't agree with her politics and I don't agree with the fact mislabeled. It's like putting singer-songwriter in hip-hop. I thought it was riveting. And I don't agree with her politics, and I don't agree with the fact that she can speak generalized about men and all that stuff, but I could not turn it off, and I couldn't stop watching it. What would you call the comedy show?

A one-person show is what you call it. It's a one-woman show. Gilbert, what do you think it needs to be to be called a comedy show? The laughs come first. The entertainment come first. How do you feel about

this whole thing about honesty is the most important thing? What I always love about these one-man shows or performance art is if you've got two lines that sound vaguely like a joke within a five hour

show, they go, oh, it's very funny. Well, yeah, it has a different meter of judgment. I mean, that's what I came up with. What's harder, making people laugh or making people cry and feel? Well, think about it. Movies, that's pretty much what

it is. Watch a Pixar movie. You'll cry within a half hour. I mean, there's people much what it is. Watch a Pixar movie. You'll cry within a half hour. I mean, people decide how they're going to connect to people. And we've decided to use it with jokes. And I do think you can leap over a lot of topics and you can talk about things most people can't talk about better with jokes than you can with emotions. Especially because most people try not to feel the emotions. But the opposite of words. You're saying jokes, but you're saying there's no jokes in the show. I'm not saying there's no jokes in the show. I'm saying what Gilbert

said, which is you have a few and now all of a sudden people are like, it's the funniest thing I've ever seen when really it's a really potent, smart, thoughtful, at time, funny, one-woman show. She just did a great ad for the show without mentioning funny, so why wouldn't they just sell it that way?

What they're saying is that it's redefining comedy, that Louis C.K. and his brand of humor is now irrelevant. It's like going to see a baseball game and saying, look, they've redesigned football. It's apples and oranges. One person said that it's basically made Louis C.K. irrelevant. I wouldn't go as far as to say that everybody's saying that. One writer for Slade or HuffPo or one of those. But I've heard the comments of that sentiment. Well, a lot of people seem to think that this is perhaps the way comedy is going

or it should be going. An inflection point in the progression of comedy. But why not just sort of do it at the moth, do it at a place where it's a true storytelling place and not label it a comedy? Like, you can still tell the place and not label it a comedy. You can still tell the story and maybe Netflix puts it on.

I don't see it redefining comedy because I think people want to hear jokes. Not that that's a bad show. I think you're thinking, where's the homeless fire starter now that we really need him? I think the show should be advertised. You'll appreciatively kind of laugh twice.

But you're... Yeah. But the weird thing is... It is pretty good, though. But in the UK, they have... Like, I feel like there's occasionally one-man shows. Like, you look at, like, Birbiglia and, like, a lot of those kind of things. They're there. But the UK, and especially the fringe festival which he kinda blossom out of

that's what they want to do the people that win so if the net will coming out in europe it's it's standard nobody's it's not blowing anybody's mind because when they think of comedy that's what i think i think of one woman chose one man shows in here what i did the fringe festival i was labeled an Hour. That's what they called what I

did. An hour of stand-up, had a theme and an arc, but at the end of the day, it was called a joke machine because it's called the American Hour. We just do something differently. So it's all these American comics that are going, especially New Yorkers, because if you want to survive in this community, you better have jokes and you better have

a fast. No one will fucking throw you out of here on your ass so fast. If they're not howling for ten minutes straight, you will be out on your caboose right on Mexico Street. Is this fair? Then I want to turn over to Gilbert and say whatever he wants and then we got to wrap it up. Are you kidding? Can we delete the part where I talk about

incest fantasies? We'll vote on it. Is this fair that there is something... Or is that my one-person show person show It's gonna be the promo Is there something That Does she lose points In some way

For the fact that She's recounting something That happened to her And something happens to you You don't get You know You may tell it in a very Powerful way

But in the end You are It's fortune that it happened to you, or misfortune. You didn't create it. You didn't write it. You're just telling people the story of what happened to you. In other words, David Tell never...

And that's not creative. Keith Robinson was it. David Tell never had sex with a woman doggy style because she's just passed out that way. He had to make that up. So does he get extra credit? Well, this is also interesting. The last...

One of our greatest... I'm sorry, he gets... Greatest comics already did this. so does he get extra credit? Well, this is also interesting. The last... One of our greatest comics already did this. Richard Pryor did this. He told what happened to him. But the secret is he made it funny. And it was tragic,

but he still made it funny. Did you see Hannah? Yes, I did. What'd you think? Come on, man. But Keith... You know what I thought. But isn't it interesting?

Like, Chappelle, at the end of his special, talks about kind of being, like, he uses the analogy with the pimp and the book, and he makes this huge analogy, and it's just a valid point. And he kind of, you know, and he takes you on a journey. And what I'll give Chappelle is he was funny the entire time,

and then he made this potent observation, and then he left. So it's really about what people enjoy and this is her first time making a special. I mean, I'm... I go back to why label it a comedy. Why not just say just if you... You want to say anything else, Keith?

You want to label it a piece of art? Label it that. Yeah. But Keith, as a piece of art, is it valid? Does it have merit as a piece of art is it valid it doesn't have merit as a piece of art in your estimation Speaking whatever she speaks and it's okay. I guess did you watch the whole thing knock? No No, did you make it to the end because they labeled it a comedy and I want to look at it I wasn't laughing so you didn't make it to the end, though?

No. Okay, would you be willing to make it to the end just to judge on a full piece? Not now, no. She's asking you on a date. She's asking you on a date, Keith.

No, she... I'll hold your hand. Let's do this. I'll watch it. Keith, you're losing your mojo. You totally missed that. I think you wanted Gilbert to... Yeah, Gilbert, whatever you want to talk about.

You did the Jeff Ross, David Tell special. You stole the show. I don't know how they're going to edit it, but you were the highlight of the entire thing, in my opinion. Oh, thank you. What did you think about it? Oh, that was fun.

Gilbert, it was so funny. I don't know if I'd call it a comedy. Those were some really... So, Tell and Ross did these... With Jeff Ross and Dave Attell, I don't know if that is a comedy show necessarily that they do. It's performance art. It's performance art. It's performance art.

They bump the mics. Those were really funny, really, really funny shows. Oh, thank you. When does it come out? It's going to be out in a few months, I think. Oh, nice.

It's on Netflix? It's going to be on Netflix, yeah. They shot three nights in the underground, and they're doing three half-an-hour shows, so they have a lot of stuff to edit from.

Bob Saget came. Maybe I'm not supposed to talk about it. I don't know, but it was really, really great. Okay, this is a really nice line of people to talk. I wish we could talk for a whole other hour, but we can't.

Well, theoretically we could. But we won't be able to air it. We can talk again. But you might slip out. We could be friends. Somebody else has to reveal a nasty, freaky sex experience. I've had a lot of threesomes.

Oh, come on. You can't compare that to what I revealed. I've never done anything like you revealed. We're all good people. Daddy, daughter, porn, what? I've never had a threesome. What is it like? What is a threesome like?

I'm serious. I've never had it. Are you feeling overwhelmed because you've got to try to satisfy two women at the same time? No, no, no. I've never had a threesome. What is it like? What is a threesome like? I'm serious. I've never had it. Are you feeling overwhelmed because you've got to try to satisfy two women at the same time? No, I've never said it was with two women. Shut up then. Well, I had two sets of

threesomes and they both kind of ended the same way. Is that in the end, you start hooking up up developing a connection with one of the two women and the other one begins to feel left out

and then it just kind of disintegrates that's what it's like but the first I was like oh my god I can't believe this is really

like penthouse form you'll never penthouse I came out from Michigan State back home to Oyster Bay with my piano player and I don't know

what we were drinking or smoking or what we were doing, but my girlfriend at the time who I really didn't care about that much somehow we wound up in a threesome and I will never forget this because he was fucking her and she was saying

thank you. This is two guys and a girl. And I'm thinking, you know, in other words, it's like she's saying, oh, so that's what it's supposed to feel like. I would never do it. I've never forgotten that. I would never do it with another dude. It has to be two women.

You brush up against the other guy. Oh, no, I couldn't. Paul would do it. Would you do it? I'm looking up to see if I'm normal online. Would you have a threesome with two guys? Two guys and a girl? No, I would prefer not to do that. That wouldn't turn me on at all.

I might do a tag team size thing where you do your thing and then maybe I'll come over and do my thing and you'll stand like ten feet away. He pretends to be the uncle. If I grew a third arm I could have a threesome. and you'll stand like 10 feet away? Well, he pretends to be the uncle. The uncle and the dad. If I grew a third arm,

I could have a threesome. Yeah. All right. It's not nice to ask. I'm still, you may be a feminist, but I still believe it's not nice to ask a lady these things.

So I'm not going to. But if you want to. Has anybody ever had a threesome with two comedians? That would be weird. I just, especially because you're just going to favor the one that's funnier two comedians? That would be weird. Especially because you're just going to favor the one that's funnier. I just think it would be weird. Favor the one that's funnier?

Yeah. All of a sudden, you're just like, oh, my God, he's so funny. Well, the woman would favor the one that's funnier. The guy would favor the one that's more attractive. I mean, that's always what guys do. It's not about the more attractive. It's the one that... Well, whatever it would be, it probably wouldn't be based on funny.

No, it wouldn't be. All right. Anyway, remember that joke? How do you give be. It probably wouldn't be based on funny. No, it wouldn't be. All right. Anyway... Remember that joke? How do you give a comedian a hard-on? Put on an apron. I don't like that. All right.

Sorry. Thank you very much, everybody. Good night. Oh, can I mention my show? Yeah, we did. I'm sorry. Like, where it is? You know, they can get tickets?

Yeah, of course. Paul Mercurio. Permission. Sorry. Paul Mercurio. Permission to speak with Paul Mercurio. You go to Ticketmaster and get tickets. Permission to speak. It's called Permission to Speak with Paul Mercurio. At the Jerry Orbach Theater. At 50th and Broadway.

Oh, that's great. Yeah. And you can go to Ticketmaster and get tickets. Opening night, Barring a Fire, is this Monday. It runs through August. And it's three nights a week. So hope you can come and support it. And maybe I'll talk to you.

And it'll be funny. And my podcast is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Is it really? He was on my podcast, by the way, and he was great. We taped it at the Village Underground. Paul had Gilbert Gottfried on his podcast. Paul had Paul McCartney on his podcast. Whoa!

Yeah. Which is infuriating me and I still don't know who he thought you were. I know he confused you for someone. You want a serious answer? It's because I didn't ask him for an autograph or a picture

and I talked to him like a normal person. That's what people have told me. Like I just shoot the shit with him in the hallway and I blew him. That too. Alright.

Goodnight everyone. Are you alright? Liz Mealy. LizMealy.com Alright. Jackie.. Good night, everybody. Are you all right? All right. Liz Mealy. LizMealy.com. Good. Jackie. I tweet jokes every day at 4.20 p.m.

International Marijuana Time at Jackie Martling. Filthy, wonderful, terrific old jokes. And GilbertGodfrey.com. Good night, everybody. Good night. Good night.