The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - James Altucher, Rebecca Trent, and Ray Ellin

Episode Date: August 11, 2017

James Altucher is a former financier, hedge fund manager, and author of 18 books. A year and a half ago he threw out all his possessions and now lives in Airbnb's. Rebecca Trent is the owner of Creek & the Cave comedy club, located in the Long Island City section of Queens, New York. Ray Ellin is a prominent standup comedian who may be seen regularly performing at the Comedy Cellar.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. I think third, this is my third. Third? Third. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. My name is Noam Dorman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. We're here at the back table of The Comedy Cellar with, where's Ray Allen? No, with Aruba Ray Allen.

Hello. A longtime comedian on the circuit. Of course, my co-host, Mr. Dan Natterman. Hey, Dan. We have James Altucher, who is a former financier, hedge fund manager, and author of 18 books. A year and a half ago, he threw out all his possessions and now lives in Airbnbs, which is amazing. Oh, I didn't know that. You introduced Rebecca?

About James Altucher. Rebecca Trent, she's a real class act. That's me. She's the owner of The Creek in the Cave, which is a comedy room in Queens. Long Island City. New York. And she's a real swinging cat. We like to have her here to hear her perspective.

Yippee. Hi, Dan. And she does, I guess you would call her the den mother of alternative comedy. Oh, my goodness. I don't know. What a title. That's good. I like that.

I'll take it. Issue one. North Korea. Nothing, Dan? No, I don't have much to say about North Korea. Are we going to war, Dan? I don't know. I haven't studied the issue.

What do you guys want to talk about? Obviously, I'm only concerned about... I'll talk about whatever you want. North Korea? Talk close to him, LaMigre. I'll talk about North Korea. What do you think about North Korea? Let me tell you what I think about North Korea.

You're a hedge fund guy, whatever it is. I think that there's only one option in North Korea. The road to North Korea leads, it goes right through Wall Street. Unless we are prepared to upend, it's like chemotherapy. Like, you know, there was a time we could have just cut this out, but we didn't. And now if we want to kill this, it's going to be chemotherapy, killing a lot of sickness, a lot of healthy cells. And if the only way is to convince China to get on our side. And the only way to convince China is through economic pain. And the only

way to send economic pain to China is to be willing to stand economic pain at home. We don't make anything. We buy. We buy from China. We import. We can't give them economic pain. Yeah, we stop importing. Well, I mean, yeah, but where are we going to get

our garbage then? We're a bunch of garbage people that need our garbage to buy. I'll tell you what we make. I'll tell you what we make for China. We make dollar bills and they own two trillion of them. That's right. So, who owns the bank? I don't even know how you can hurt them at this point.

Who owns the bank? The bank owner or the person who owes the bank two trillion dollars? They're not payable on demand? I got two points to make. They're not payable on demand. I mean... I got two points to make. Number one, we make rock and roll, baby.

Okay. And the Chinese will never be able to do that. And Hollywood. We have Hollywood. They're just not cool enough. Look, China doesn't want problems with us, and neither does North Korea. They're doing the same thing they did under everybody. Just scare, scare, scare until somebody does a deal with them.

But I had a second... And so now we're putting the pressure that China needs to do a deal instead of we doing the deal. Okay, can I just make a point real fast? There should be some correlation between the guests that are invited and the topics that are discussed. Such that if you want to talk about North Korea, you don't invite Aruba Ray Allen.

You invite Aruba Ray Allen to talk about Aruba. Hey, my father is North Korean. Well, then we'd love to have him on the show. He's dead. And Rebecca Trent. I actually think we agree. My father spent a lot of time in Korea.

He was stationed in South Korea for a tremendous amount of time. And I had a Korean girlfriend. I have some things to say about it. Right, but your main expertise is not necessarily Korea. It's alternative comedy. It's true. It's true. And I assume

you have other areas of expertise. Well, we'll just stick with comedy for the purposes of this podcast. James, I actually don't,

and I would like to read, first of all, if I could read one of your 18 books, which one should I read? I'm a businessman. What would interest me? Okay,

so I have a book called Choose Yourself, which describes many of my business failures, but also how I overcame and came back from that and how I think in this economy, everyone's relying on, let's say, an employer to give you money or a publisher to publish your book or a TV network to give you a TV show and you kind of have to start taking control of your own,

you have to take ownership of your own life and to succeed now more than ever. The middle layer of, the middle class, the middle layer of management, the middle tier of employees

are all going away and that's going to collapse the economy unless people choose themselves. And what's the name of that book again? Choose Yourself. Yeah, but Noam's already chosen himself. economy unless people choose themselves. And what's the name of that book again? Choose Yourself.

Yeah, but Noam's already chosen himself. He owns a comedy club. Yes. A successful bar. Every single person here has chosen themselves. No, that's true. We've already done that. I'm saying for listeners.

Okay, I would suggest another book. Sounds like a really good book for artists, though, for comedians. Yeah, because I think artists and comedians— Not giving yourself over to the project, like that kind of advice is pretty good. I preach this anatomy all the time. that kind of advice is pretty good. I preach to St. Adam and all the time. I really do. Take comedians as an example. Comedians rely on so many other people to lift their careers,

whether it's the person who passes you at the comedy cellar or someone who gives you a role on a show or whatever, when there's probably many, many outlets for success in a career. You know, I'm just guessing. But, you know, you see comedians doing many, many more things now because there's so many different outlets, like podcasts, which we're on right now, or YouTube videos, or whatever. Book writing that they could self-publish. Yes, indeed.

That is true. You know, when you self-publish, you get 100% of the money instead of 7% of the money. Every comedian should self-publish their book. Many comedians write books, but they wait for the publisher to choose them. Well, for some reason, what you just said reminded me of this, and we can find a way to make it logical, that distribution is changing. Did you hear that? I think it was yesterday

that Disney is pulling all their stuff out from Netflix. Correct. So Netflix was this aggregator and distributor. And now that's falling apart. Now everybody, I mean, you can see where this is going.

Everybody's just going to be distributing for themselves. Not just the studios. Maybe the comedians, musicians. Everybody has a free conduit to the entire world now. So why give a share to somebody else?

Right, exactly. And why, and this is, everybody thought, oh my gosh, Netflix is going to dominate the one hour special for comedy. Not true.

Netflix did for six months or a year, but there's going to be so many more outlets now. And by the way, maybe people will start uploading their one hourhour specials on YouTube and charging for it or getting some other

revenue model. But you're using YouTube then. You're not really doing it on your own. There has to be a platform that exists for them to do it on. But there are many platforms to choose from. There are many more than people think. But the thing is, James, it's like finding a needle in a haystack. If I throw up a video on YouTube,

nobody might see it. But at least with Netflix, Netflix kind of drives people to those videos. So just like a publisher would drive people, hopefully, if they're doing their job, to your book. Which they don't. They have never done it. They don't do it. Now, you're already a name. I think what Dan said is wrong.

First of all, you pretend like there's no such thing as viral. Things go viral. Things go viral. Things go viral, yes. Every day. Right, but that doesn't mean that all the things that don't go viral that might be great, that just get lost in the sun. But they still will, regardless of whether on Netflix or HBO. Look, shows get canceled after two episodes.

Even good shows. Even Megyn Kelly. There you go. Even Caitlyn Jenner. Even Caitlyn Jenner. But the one key component to all this and if you're famous you don't need it either go ahead if you but if you get a a deal with netflix to do a show and it gets canceled they've still paid you something you could probably live on for the rest of the year let's say that's true so look that's true like none of these none of these platforms are bad but it's just that more

and more, there's going to be lots of comedians who would love to have a one-hour special somewhere, and Netflix says no, and they have to figure out their own way to create their own audience and distribute it and become their own distribution mechanism. But here's the thing.

There's only so many comedians that are going to have good specials. So at the end of the day, it's still going to be a relative handful of comedians that become well-known, successful comedians. Okay, but Dan, I would take you, right? Yeah. Do a one-hour special. Right. Okay, and then there's 87 million comedy podcast networks that have pennies for ad space,

like nothing in their CPM for ad space, I could sell, I would produce your special, sell it across all these podcast networks, and now you have a one-hour special

and probably make money on it even if Netflix said no. I've told that to Dan for a long time. He's your manager. Let's figure Dan out because I like Dan's comedy. Well, Ray Allen

has suggested this to me. I will have to confess, doing an hour special. Yep. Ray and I both will produce it. Sure. He'll direct. Perfect. Well, but what is it?

Okay. It's fair. It's time. You should. It is time, and the world is ready for Dan Natterman. They really are. Well, I mean, I'm going to call the special. In 1940, the world was ready for Dan Natterman. Well, exactly, Well, I mean, I'm going to call the special. In 1940, the world was ready for Dan Natterman.

Well, exactly. And that's why I call the special Too Little Too Late. That's going to be the title of my special. That's a good name, Dan. Yeah, thank you. Well, we could talk about that, James. This is his favorite subject. My favorite subject is what, me?

Yeah, we've hit on your favorite subject. How are we going to make Dan a star? That's how easy it is for me to start the conversation on how you can choose yourself. And he tried to stop this conversation. No, no, I tried to stop the Korea conversation. People are afraid to choose themselves. This is not the Korea conversation. Because people want validation.

They want to feel, oh my gosh, Netflix chose me. There's a big fear in what if I choose myself and no one listens? It's a legitimate fear. It's a legitimate fear. And Netflix might throw you a quarter of But then... It's a legitimate fear. It's a legitimate fear. And Netflix throws you, might throw you a quarter of a million bucks, half a million bucks. They might. They won't throw me

a half million. They might throw me a hundred thousand. The point is that this is a snapshot in time. This is a snapshot in time, but if now maybe I'm exaggerating the importance of this Disney thing, but if this is the way of the future, Netflix is not going to have the juice that it used to have.

But don't you think that's logical, though? Like, wouldn't Disney just want their own button? Why would they need to feed all their stuff to Netflix? I think it is logical. I think that every single network can be their own service. Well, the Disney brand is... Look, Seesaw was just shut down.

That was a different animal, though, a little bit. Because it wasn't NBC as a whole. It was a specific curated arm that was trying to that was trying to feed a need that's already being fed by other sources but as Noam's prediction comes to fruition

as these things all start to break up CISO that idea of CISO is actually really brilliant inside of that world we just aren't there yet it was ahead of its game but it goes well yes and no I mean CISO was actually really brilliant inside of that world. We just aren't there yet. It was ahead of its game. CISO was supposed to be the answer to Netflix and they put a lot of money into it. Nobody had a problem with Netflix. That was the problem.

Do you know what I'm saying? There didn't need to be an answer to Netflix. Maybe the content on CISO wasn't sufficient. Maybe it wasn't good enough for people to say, we all want to go there. It was the only place I could go to see Flying Circus, Monty Python stuff. There were things on there that were specific.

Well, boy, has it already. By the way, here's the benefit of CISO, is that all those shows that were on CISO, now, because they weren't podcasts or YouTube videos, they were on some kind of weird TV thing, they can go on iTunes now and be sold for two bucks. CISO was NBC's arm that was started by Dan Harmon and

Evan Shapiro. I might be saying his name wrong, but I think it's Shapiro. They created a curation of comedy that was basically a button on your smart TV that you could subscribe to for $4.99 a month, and they did

What's Your Fucking Deal Through It, which is how I know about them because I produced a show with to for $4.99 a month, and they did What's Your Fucking Deal through it, which is how I know about them, because I produced a show with them for two seasons. And we're very upset they didn't get a third. But now those shows can be sold on iTunes, right? They can, but we're actually going to try and do a next level up from that. And I think most of the projects that have legs that were on that platform are going to not just try for a DIY.

They're going to try and do something that's going to be more a long line of cable or Comedy Central or whatever. You know what I mean? That kind of stuff. Does this make logical sense? Since nobody, to my knowledge, predicted kind of the way things,

the landscape in 2017, simply by predicting something now, we can make sure that it won't happen. That's probably true. That's hilarious. Everyone make sure that it won't happen like that's probably true that's hilarious everyone was sure that it won't happen because I mean like we said

you're making a prediction I'm thinking like nobody is predicting nobody's getting anything right in the last 10 years nobody's predicted anything correctly to my knowledge

about 10 years ago everything just goes there was a bunch of remember when everybody oh sorry remember when dailycomedy.com was around

And we did a lot of stuff For that, Dan There was Budweiser spent 30 million dollars On a comedy website NBC Somebody had

Office Pirates There was several Different comedy outlets And they spent millions 30 million 40 million 50 million And they all tanked

Daily Comedy stuck around For probably the longest And had half a million bucks Wasn't Funny or Die A part of that, too? Funny or Die was that. And that was the one that survived, right? That was the one that survived. And it had a lot of star power behind it and a lot of money behind it as well.

And a lot of college energy behind it. Yes. Which was a huge part of that. The college humor stuck around as well. I would disagree with Noam's point about nobody predicts anything. People knew and I knew and everybody knew that one day you'd buy all your music online and it was Steve Jobs that ultimately did it. I think everybody knew that TV and the internet

would become one and that's happening. I don't know that anybody knew that. We all talked about that. Everybody was talking about that. In the age of Napster and LimeWire, I don't remember anybody saying, no, no, this won't last. Soon there'll be some place

where everybody just buys it online for $9. That was kind of his innovation. But the idea of getting your music online... Well, there's a legal brouhaha over there, too. The idea of getting music online was well-predicted. The idea of getting music online... Well, yeah. And the idea that all TV shows

would go through the internet, I think was well-predicted. I don't think you understand what I mean by predicted. In 1995, 1996, or through 1998, I worked at HBO, and they were gearing up then to have everything go through the internet. I mean, they didn't

even own HBO.com. Some medical supplies company did, so I had to convince them at the time to buy it. They did buy it. $250,000 in 1995 for HBO.com. Wow. Wow. CBS has a similar story.

There were a lot of them that they just didn't buy the domains. Yeah. I know. I have people, I own, first of all,

I do too. What do you own? You went and bought a bunch of domain names. This is what happened. I had a guy do something. Maybe I'll tell the story on the radio Sunday,

but not today. Somebody just said terrible to me, do something. Maybe I'll tell the story on the radio Sunday, but not today. Somebody was saying terrible to me, like terrible. And I went out and I bought, and it was available ingratitude.com.

Oh, I love this. It was not that long ago. And it was available. Like it just said, I have ingratitude. Which you think is a really good domain. And I thought,

I'm going to write this fucking story and put it on the, and then people could put their other stories of ingratitude. It would be like a thing. This is before.

It was right around the time Facebook was starting out. It wouldn't work now because everything. And I get offers all the time to buy this domain. I don't even entertain them. What's the most anybody's ever offered you? Oh, a couple thousand dollars. Like nothing. I had a domain name that was worth over a million dollars last year.

Really? Yeah. I was the touring manager for TrumpvsBernie.com. So right after Bernie won the primary in New Hampshire and Trump had that little splash that he was doing in the Northwest, he just lost Iowa, I think. The valuation of the website just went fucking north. You didn't sell it?

Of course I wanted to, but Anthony and James didn't want to, and I didn't feel like I could just sell it. It was their project. It wasn't my project. Who were Anthony and James? Anthony Antamnick and James Adomi. They were Trump and Bernie. All those people that bought those domain names to try to sell them later. I couldn't.

But that's an example of economic failure. That's an example of where capitalism has failed. That's an example of economic failure. That's an example of where capitalism has failed. That's an example of where people can make a lot of money and hurt society. What do you mean? By buying a domain name that they think somebody else is going to want so they can sell it for more later. That's an example of... Well, that wasn't intentional.

HBO Medical was just a legit... No, but some people did that. No, but some people speculated and said, oh, you know, maybe Delta Airlines is going to want it. I'm going to buy Delta Airlines and sell it to Delta Airlines later. There's no, like, value to society by doing that. Right. So, in other words, when we yell at people to get a job, we mean except for that.

But wait, maybe there was value because they bought it with the idea in mind they were going to sell to Delta Airlines and otherwise maybe some porn site would have bought Delta Airlines dot com. Who knows? Does every transaction in a capitalist economy have to benefit society? No. But ideally, if somebody makes a lot of money, we like to think they've made a lot of money. And they've contributed even more greatly.

No, I don't think that way. And you know, with his money from HBO dot com, maybe they did some pro bono cases at that medical company or whatever, you know? Maybe. Right? I forgot who bought them. Someone ended up buying HBO and company, the medical company. I forgot who though. Oh, yeah.

Maybe WebMD. Like Pfizer. latest thing that I'm railing against is the utter dangerousness of the medical profession and their vanity. Because in my opinion, now I'm not talking about a surgeon who has an actual talent. I'm talking about the typical diagnostician, a medical doctor, who back before

computers could hold the most, he was the smartest guy, could hold the most information, who now just looks at you and pretends, vainly, that of the 10,000 diseases known to man, he can assess which ones

you have, rather than every single symptom that you have, and every single test you have, goes into a computer, a database that spits out to you, exactly in order of probability, every disease on planet Earth that could fit this description. But given that that technology exists, don't you think the trend is that more and more people will go towards dataism instead of humanism there? It should have happened already.

It should have. My 35,000 mile checkup on my car is way more systematic than the checkup that I had at 55 year olds for my doctor. Well, your computer is essentially a car with a, it's essentially a computer with a car app on it. So your car is essentially a computer with a car app on it. But I mean, but I'm saying kind of like doctors don't want this, so they will find every reason not to do it.

The auto mechanics like, sure. yeah, give me a big list. They have a list of every single part and how long it should last, and they check every single part, and they don't leave it up to their memory. I mean, it's very, very systematic. They don't miss anything. Your MD, I mean, why do you have to go get a second, third, and fourth opinion? Because you presume, well, this guy's going to remember this percentage of illnesses, and maybe you'll find the guy who maybe has seen this before. This is ridiculous in 2017. But don't you think the trend, like even if it hasn't happened now,

don't you think the trend is that we trust data more than a human doctor? And so more and more people will take advantage of that and get all the blood work, the MRIs, the whatever. I just think it should accelerate. Like it bothers me. But that's up blood work, the MRIs, the whatever. I just think it should accelerate. It bothers me. But that's up to you. That's up to the individual. Do you trust the doctor or do you trust data? But it's almost like they're there to avoid you from getting the MRIs and the PET scans and all of that. They're trying to

stop that. And this is the answer, I think, to medical costs in the end. I guess what I'm saying is I think that the average MD is almost obsolete. Not a surgeon, but a diagnostic guy. Well, a surgeon also because there's robotic surgeries now. Eventually, he might be obsolete too.

Yeah, I think everything's kind of gone from humanism to dataism. So I don't see that doctors or lawyers or accountants, none of these professions are going to last. Robots. Yeah. Well, the comedians will be the last to go. It's very hard to, I think, program someone to write and deliver a joke, although that might happen at some point.

But you see, I think you're right because Disney splits off from Netflix, so clearly distribution, you can't have a king of distribution because other warring kings will come out. But content is king. They all will always need content. Netflix was spending $11 billion on content and so they always need a comedian. By the way, is there a specific reason that you

invited Aruba Ray? Just to shoot the breeze or is there any specific I didn't invite him. I'm sorry if I'm. No, because my thing is, my thing is, let's tailor the conversation to the guests. The medical discussion was an interesting one. He's not about medical. He's into modern futurism.

He's a futurist. He thinks about the future a lot, right? But you know what else about distribution is interesting? People, I remember this big article. I think it was in the New York Times. I think he thinks you can't keep up with his conversation. No, not at all. Not at all.

I'm saying there's a lack of coherence here. Not even saying we're jumping around, but whatever. How did Bananas this time of year in Aruba? Louis C.K. distributed his own special on his own website, and it was a big to-do. And his own TV series. Right. And he was virtually unheard of at the time, which was what really was amazing. Wait a second.

He was already known. I'm being sarcastic. Oh, okay. Yeah. Thank you. That's the thing. I got a little nervous, too. I didn't know I did that well.

Very well. He used, I mean, mainstream media. That's how he developed his following, through his specials on Comedy Central, HBO, and appearances on late night shows. So self-distribution's possible, but he already had a huge fan base to draw from, which mainstream media gave him. So here's a counterexample. Rob Delaney only was known on Twitter,

did some stand-up in his local town, and then he got a massive Amazon TV show catastrophe. That's a needle in a haystack, boy. Because I was on Twitter. I was putting out gold. I first started on Twitter. Wait, no, hold on now. I first started on Twitter. I was putting out gold. I first started on Twitter. Hold on now. I first started on Twitter.

I was putting out solid gold tweets. Nobody cared. And I just offered you the one-hour Dan Adams special. Nobody cared. Somehow Delaney hit it just right. He got that wave. It was new. I mean, it's fluke.

It was a fucking fluke guru. Didn't it also have something to do with his epic bomb that wasn't that part of his notoriety? No, no, no. Not really? Didn't he have a million followers? Well, yeah. I mean, I'm sure. Because he was funny.

Because he was tweeting all day long, and then he got a book deal, and then he got catastrophe. He only has a million followers now, but he was already rising up, and then he got deal after deal. Maybe Twitter wasn't your outlet. Maybe YouTube could have been. It's also a matter of timing if you're there first and somehow you catch on,

which is almost impossible to predict how something catches on. Like that Cash Me Outside girl. Let's talk about her for a second. She went on Dr. Phil and she said to the audience, Cash Me Outside, how about that? Nobody could have predicted

that that would become, that now she's like an Instagram millionaire. She didn't do it on purpose and no one could have predicted that that would become, that now she's like an Instagram millionaire. She didn't do it on purpose, and no one could have predicted it. Zero talent involved. That's the kind of flukism that I think is largely responsible for a lot of these internet phenomenons. Not all of them. Not all of them.

I guess that's where the viral stuff comes in. I don't think, as Noam has often expressed, that this is finally a way for merit to rise to the top. At all. Yes, it is. You think so? Do you think Netflix is the way to rise? What's that? Do you think Netflix qualifies to be the curator of good comedy as an example?

You know why it is a very good possibility? Noam looks like he's in a game. Because A, they're putting you on this platform in front of millions of people.? If you're hedging your bets. Because A, they're putting you on this platform in front of millions of people. B, you're getting money up front. C, there's a good chance a lot of people are going to see it. And then you can actually draw on the road and make a lot more money. I agree with you. So that's for 30 people out of 10,000 comedians.

This year it's 52. But 10,000 comedians don't deserve to make it because most of them aren't any good. So now we have to find... Let's say 200 are good. Not everybody's supposed to make it. Okay. But only 52 will be picked by Netflix. So who's going to pick the other 150 who are really good?

Next year, another 52 will get picked. Okay, maybe. It doesn't need to be 200 specials a year. Is this what we're saying now? Can we cap this at some point? There's too many comedians as it is. I would encourage anybody thinking about comedy to find another field. But to Dan's point is, I don't think a comedian as talented as Dan should have to wait for Netflix to validate him. I agree with you.

I've been telling you that for a long time. I agree with you. But the truth is, I believe myself to be... First of all, no one looks like he's in terrible pain. I don't know if that's true or if I'm reading into things. Has this subject been covered before? It's not pain. It's anguish.

Go ahead. Well, what's the anguish coming from? No, I don't want to say it out loud. Go ahead. Well, is it to do with the fact that we've shifted away from discussing medical science? I was picturing the nuclear catastrophe. No, I don't want to talk about it. Go ahead.

Go ahead. Is it to do with this podcast or is it too personal? No, no. It's to do with this podcast. Go ahead. Well, then I think that's the... Has this topic been covered before, Dan's special? That's exactly the kind of thing that we should be discussing on the podcast

if you have an issue with no one with the podcast. I really prefer not to. Like Bart will be the scripter. I prefer not to. Go ahead. Because obviously there's something going on here. As I've said numerous times, maybe no one but I shouldn't be doing this podcast together.

We have clearly opposing visions. I think it's great. Some people do enjoy it. Some people enjoy that aspect of the podcast. That Noam and I have diametrically opposed visions of what the podcast should be. Okay, Noam, what's your vision? Because I'm new here. No, actually, he's correct, but that is not what I was...

I was just thinking about this heart... This is all like this is a neurosis playing out in terms of an argument. The internet, I'm great. I'm not succeeding on the internet. Therefore, the internet can't reward merit so therefore the internet has to be defective like I I think therefore the internet

is defective I didn't say the internet was defective I understand how his mind works this is a first of all there's merit to that argument second of all I didn't say the internet was defective. I said if you think you're going to throw something up on YouTube

and it's just going to... Out of the billions of videos you're necessarily going to be discovered, it's not that simple. The point is to some fluke. And there always will be flukes. And it's not even clear to me that a fluke is not meritorious because

anything that millions of people turn to and enjoy, who are you to say it was unworthy? It's unpredictable. That we can say. And it's, yes, trends. Look, the pet rock. What better judge is there of merit than the general public deciding that it's meritorious? Okay, but a lot of it. In that case, you're saying it's right that Trump won. The general public deciding that it's meritorious. Okay, but a lot of... Well, in that case, you're saying it's right that Trump won.

The general public decided. Well, we all think that's not right. The general public, first of all, is complicated by the fact he didn't win the popular vote. Correct. But leaving that aside for a second, it just presumes that the public thought he had merit. Yeah.

First of all, the public is often wrong, number one. Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood your point. No, I don't think that's the same thing. We can talk about art or something like that. But let's say, Dan, you're right. Let's say there is flukism. You know, it's like that movie Sweet and Lowdown.

I get your point. I didn't miss it. Remember the movie Sweet and Lowdown? You know, where, I mean, it's just a movie, but Sean Penn was like the greatest guitarist ever, except for Django Reinhardt. Couldn't make any money. Nobody gave a fuck. And I think that

does happen. I think you could objectively say certain things are great and nobody really gives a fuck about them. But let's assume... They have a fighting chance. Let's assume that you're correct. It's your only chance. Let's assume you're correct and that the best way... He would have never had a deal. Let's assume you're correct and the best way to value art

is public response. Fine. Let's assume that. That's not the argument. That was what Noam said. He said what better way to judge it than the public's approbation. The problem is the public has to find it. Now a lot of things the public finds it just a lot of shit is just momentum.

This guy has 80 billion followers therefore let's add more followers because he's the hot guy. But usually there's a... Some of it is a little bit of a fluke, but some of it is a concerted strategy to build followers. Nobody starts off with 80 million followers.

They start off with zero. So they have to, like... Like Rob Delaney put in a strategy, every hour I'm going to make a joke on Twitter. And he did it for years and then blew up. Alright, but Cash Me Outside Girl had no strategy. Okay, but there's flukism. But I bet that's a lot of stuff.

But Rob Delaney had the skill. But Rob Delaney has a TV show and that girl's in jail. I haven't talked to Rob Delaney. I don't know if it was his strategy or if it's just like, oh my god, holy shit, look what's happening. I never predicted this. But he already had the skill of comedy. He was doing it and then he decided to, okay, I'm going to try this never predicted this. But he already had the skill of comedy. He was doing it, and then he decided okay, I'm going to try this skill

on Twitter. Maybe he tried other places. Maybe other places didn't work. We don't even know. But then Twitter started to catch fire for him after a long time. I think a lot of it was due to his timing. He might have just hit it at the right moment. You know, you catch a wave. I didn't say the internet was defective, by the way. I don't think I used the word

defective. I think any time you have a billion videos, it's going to be hard for people to find that video that catches on as opposed to a billion people I mean, it's not it's a slight maybe it makes it easier

you know this, you take a penny and you double it every day within a month, you have a million dollars, right? All right. You have a billion videos out there. But as they get followers, they become viral and they quickly spread through the whole world. Two to four to eight. And within a very short time, it's not just a needle in a haystack. They rise to the top.

And that can start with very small numbers of people. Yes, but most do not rise to the top and that can start with very small numbers of people. Yes, but most do not rise to the top. But most maybe aren't that good. Well, I've seen the cash me outside, how about that?

Or maybe they're not that good, that's like, you know, that's cosmic, but there's not that much interest in them. You can't force it

down people's throats. That's a role, but a lot of it is just, I think, I think, I think flukism, which is a word we might have just invented on this podcast. Okay,

let's say 99% of it's flukism, and 1% of it is the only possible way for someone who's not going to get chosen by Netflix to be discovered. I'm not saying it's not worth a try. Okay? I didn't say it's not worth a try. I said,

I don't want to try it. All right, that's fair. Because I'm defeated and broken. That was, that's why he was holding his nose. That's, I don't want to try it. All right, that's fair. Because I'm defeated and broken. That's why he was holding his nose. I never denied that. I'm just saying, I don't I'm not saying it's not worth a try.

I didn't say it's not worth a try. It's also, by the way, worth a try that I ask out Adriana Lima on a date. You guys heard a theory. I heard I'm defeated and broken. All right, I'm going to give you a solution. But both are correct. I am defeated and broken, and it's a long shot. All right. I'm going to give you a solution. But both are correct. I am defeated and broken, and it's a long shot. All right.

I'm going to give you... Despite... Let's give you five solutions. I'll give you five solutions. Five solutions by James Alston. He's a positive guy. You can stand to learn from this man. Go ahead.

He's very positive. I agree. I'm just pretending to be positive. But do a one-hour special, whatever you want. And again, the mid-roll space on every comedy podcast, maybe, except for this one, is cheap as shit. And we'll buy all the inventory

and sell that podcast. Meanwhile, we'll do a Kickstarter and a Patreon. I'm not a Kickstarter. A Kickstarter for what? Well, what do you want to do a Kickstarter for? I don't beg for money. Anybody who contributes gets your special and a handwritten poster.

I thought you were going to produce it. Doesn't that mean you write the check? What the hell? It means he raises the money. No, no. He's going to be the guy that does the ad space part where it monetizes. Kickstarter is great for building customers. It's not about begging for money.

It's about finding those first loyal customers. You'll send them a signed photograph and you'll give them two tickets here at the Comedy Cellar. You don't feel like Patreon's kind of replaced Kickstarter in that way? Both. Both are good. Let's do all. I'm not saying one or the other. I have a very bad... I don't like Kickstarter

because for most people it feels like begging for money. It's unseemly to me in most cases. But that's not how Kickstarter's used though. That's how you view it, but that's not how Kickstarter is used. That's how I've seen it used. But then you've seen it used wrong. That's mostly what I've seen used by. I saw most people use it bad.

I saw Goldberg and Zach Braff asking for money, and I remember thinking, put up your own money. Why are you asking us to fund your project? Because Kickstarter is a great place to almost focus group your initial customers. Like if you're selling a chair on Kickstarter, see if people want it. Do you want to buy this chair? We're going to sell up to $200,000 worth of chairs. Then do a pre-sale. Say you give 15.

That is the pre-sale. Okay, but that's not how I've seen Kickstarter used. I've seen Kickstarter used, donate 20 bucks, and you'll get a shout-out. You'll get a shout-out. Then you've seen it used wrong. But that's most of how I've seen it used. Okay, I'm telling you how to use it. I'm actually telling you how to use it. You can give everybody their money back after you make money on it.

You could say that, and then that's what's called seed funding. That's not begging. No, no, no. It's not seed funding because seed funders aren't your customers. This is your actual customers. Okay, so you're pre-selling. Yes. You're pre-selling. That's fine. By the way, if there isn't enough pre-sales, you just won't make the product.

And then you give the money back. There was never any money. You never really took any money anyway. You don't collect until you reach your goal. You have to reach the goal. Pre-selling I got no problem with. I've seen Kickstarter generally used. It's like panhandling.

For mental breakdowns. Yeah, but that's not what it's for. You and I, Dan and I donated to somebody for this awful play they wanted to do. I don't know if it was awful. I gave money to it. And by the way, this is just one. Kickstarter is one thing. I gave you two outlets.

We'll do podcast networks and Kickstarter and then Patreon, three outlets. We could come up with five more. Now, James, I'll touch her. I'll touch her fast. One of the reasons I've been hesitating on doing my own

special is because I think I might be able to maybe, I got this in my head, get a certain somebody to maybe get behind me and push it to Netflix There's a certain very powerful Hollywood producer that I'm told

thinks highly of me. And I'm waiting for the right moment to perhaps approach this individual about producing my special and getting it on Netflix. That might be right. But the whole thing is how many people in the world are waiting for that one guy to validate them when you could just go out and do it? I hear you, but I'm telling you to hold out for Netflix, buddy. Now, Rebecca says hold out for Netflix. Why does she say this? Because I think it's going to get you more exposure, and it's not

just about doing the special. It's about who you work with when you work with those people and those people and what their jobs are going to be 10 years from now when Netflix doesn't even exist. It's also, you know what I mean? That part never pays off on the DIY end because you're constantly begging people for favors. Sure.

Unless you're Rob Delaney or Louis C.K. or someone like that. Stop saying Rob Delaney. And Louis already had TV. But he failed at Lucky Louie. You can't call those people over. No, he didn't. I'm watching it right now on Netflix. But most people hated it.

Well, sure, but so is everything else that's ever been made. Also, I like to fail at a show that's my own HBO show. Give me an HBO show to fail at for a couple of years. I'll take it. I don't think he was very happy when it was canceled.

My happiness, where none of us are happy all the time. Clearly, you guys are redefining, like you're not using English language the way... What do you mean? Yeah, he had a show on HBO.

It didn't do well. But it led to... And it was short-lived. And then he got another deal. So his point Yeah, he had a show on HBO. It didn't do well. But it led to. And it was short-lived. And then he got another deal. And then he got another deal. So his point is that he had, I mean, failed. He did another one. I mean, it's a harsh word, but it didn't turn out the way he wanted it to.

I'm sure that's true, but it still led to other things. And I don't think you can really give him credit for being DIY in that aspect. When Louis. Not with HBO behind you. When Louis first came to me, I can remember about shooting the show here. Yeah. He was known by people who knew him, but he was not famous. Yeah.

And I didn't regard it at the time as a request from a comedian who was head and shoulders above all the comedians who were working maybe I just didn't realize his fame at the time but he was like he was like an ordinary top of the line comedian but not famous

a lot a lot of comedians had had HBO shows or whatever it is short lived or TV series that were shown and then as soon as those shows went off the air

they were right back in the thick of things here and the grind yeah and he had been doing it 20 years at that point. Yeah, and he'd been doing it 20 years. But making a good living over that. Look, like David Tell is famous.

Louis wasn't even at that point. Close to that, yeah. He wasn't a David Tell type. So his big breakout was, was it over him creating those hours over and over again that everybody loved so much? I don't know the answer to that. Or was it the show? His TV show was the biggest thing. The quote-unquote correct media loved it.

Right. And it just exploded. And the right people liked it. Look, you look at the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. Wildly successful. Selling out huge venues all over America. No one gave a shit about it. Finally, and they're making millions.

Finally, Comedy Central put it on TV because they saw it was so popular. Now, Louis, no one, Jon Stewart, no one was ever as popular as the Blue Collar Comedy Tour, but the correct part of the media doesn't give a shit about it. It doesn't speak to them. Yeah, I will say this. At that time, I'm kind of

minimizing his fame. He was on that small panel. It was like a Jerry Seinfeld tribute or something. Oh, right. With Gary Shandling and Robert Klein and Louis C.K. was the third guy. And I remember thinking at the same time, wow, Louis is up there. So

clearly there was some difference in perspective about who he was coming from the industry side as opposed to just the audience. One more thing about getting a Netflix deal also is once you get it, other people might start buzzing a little bit like, oh, Dan Adler got a Netflix deal. It's about the road work afterwards.

I'm not arguing that you should say no to Netflix if they came to you or you should say no to HBO. I'm saying there's lots of outlets. I understand that. No, you're perfectly correct. Everybody should pursue all of them. That's what's going to... Just don't wait until you're so broken that you won't try for yourself.

Unfortunately, that's what has to happen. You have to try everything now because you don't know if anybody's going to come and validate you until you validate yourself. Louis was on the road for many years too while he was failing at all these TV shows I assume.

Louis talks about that in his bit now. I've been a comic for 30 years, but only the last four years have been fun. Yeah, but again, most comics don't get that number of swings at the plate. Because he's gifted. He's very good.

Aretha Franklin got swing after swing after swing because everybody knew sooner or later she was going to win. I think that's terrific. I haven't seen him up at bat yet with his own show. Natterman, he hasn't gotten a chance to do his own TV show. Thank you, Ray Allen. You're welcome, buddy. Thank you, Ray Allen.

And Noam doesn't get it because Noam's never been on board the Natterman train. He'll say he has been, but not really. Does he book you? You guys have a podcast together? I see some of the people he's booking at this joint. But Dan, let me ask you this. I'm the only fucking train you got. Dan, you have a ton of material.

I've seen you do stuff. Why not just perform for an hour somewhere? We videotape it with three cameras, and then we figure out what to do. James, I've said this to him so many times. I agree with you 100%. Yeah, but you don't have crazy hair and glasses, Ray Allen. So I don't listen to you. Here's another example of perception.

James Altucher looks like an insane genius. So when he says it, I say to myself, maybe the guy's got a point. When Ray Allen says it, I... Like a guy on a beach drinking a daiquiri. Just some pussy hound that I happen to know. Oh, come on. Terrible. That I'm fond of.

And then, by the way, let's say... But where's the credibility? Let's say that special doesn't work out so well. Then you do another one. Just keep doing stuff. I don't have enough material. But, James... You're killing him here.

He's got one. I don't have two hours in me, James. Because I... I've often made this analogy with Ray Allen. You know, Ford Motor Company, they'll put out a billion cars a year. They're fine automobiles. But Rolls-Royce, handcrafted. Six months. It takes six months to cars a year. They're fine automobiles. But Rolls Royce, handcrafted.

Six months. It takes six months to make a vehicle. Well, that's like my act. I roll these babies off the assembly line. Gently. I know the Beatles were turning out two albums a year pretty easily. The Beatles are one example of handcrafted. Louis has a new hour every year.

Stop it with Louis. You have many hours of Rolls Royce material that man has generated. But you just said you do a half hour every six months. That's an hour a year. What's the problem here? What did I say? You just said you do a half hour every six months like a Rolls Royce. No, I didn't say an hour every six months.

A half hour every six months. I said a joke every six months. Holy Hannah. Some of these jokes take literally... Daniel, come on. Come off the assembly line. Louie's doing something very different than I'm doing. He's sort of truth telling, storytelling.

He's cursing at his kids. You know, he has a joke, for example, where he says. He got far with that. Where he just says, like a girl said, why didn't you have sex with me last night? Why didn't you rape me? And he said, what the fuck? Are you crazy? That's the whole joke.

Now. Are you putting Louie CK down on the. No, I'm saying what Louie does is different than what I'm doing. He's just telling things that really happen. When you say things that really happen, the laughs come easier. I'm saying shit that never happened. The things that really happen to you are at least as funny as the things that really happen to Louis C.K. That's not my style.

That's not my style of jokes. So you're saying you chose a tougher road to hoe? My style of jokes are harder. So it's going to take you a little longer, so you should have some more patience. The Cousin Sheila joke is hard. I'm sorry. My Cousin Sheila joke is more difficult to write than just getting up there and talking about what happened last night.

I'm sorry, it is. It's harder. It's harder to come up with jokes that clearly never happened. Like Woody Allen's joke About the moose The moose A shot of the moose That was a brilliant Piece of writing

Now if you're just Going to go up there And talk about Yeah this happened To me last night Woody Allen writes And directs a new movie Every year

We're talking about Woody Allen's stand up There's no jokes In his scripts That are difficult Oh the Cousin Sheila joke Is harder than A fucking screenplay

Screenplays are different You have different characters They're easy Screenplays too It's hard that are difficult to get. Oh, the Cousin Sheila joke is harder than a fucking screenplay? Screenplays are different. You have different characters. I've written screenplays too. It's hard, but stand-up is such a limited medium where you have so little to work with. Yes, it's harder. You are delusional. Writing crimes and misdemeanors

is harder. That was a brilliant movie. It's easier than your fucking Cousin Sheila joke? I didn't say it was easier. I'm talking about, but Woody didn't have that many hours of stand-up either. Stand-up's a different beast. Let's stick with stand-up. I don't want to talk about screenplays.

Sure, he's a brilliant screenwriter. Anything about this, could you say, you know, and maybe I'm not as prolific as some other people. Yeah, I'm not as prolific as some people for a couple of reasons. Number one is I'm not as prolific. Number two, it is harder to write the kinds of jokes that I write. It is. Alright, I have an idea. It's harder. That's it. I have an idea. Why don't you do a five-minute special?

No one says a special has to be an hour. Do a five-minute special. I have an idea. That's really. I have an idea. That's it. I have an idea. Why don't you do a five-minute special? No one says a special has to be an hour. Do a five-minute special. I have an idea. That's really smart, Ned. Don't dismiss it. I have an idea. That's brilliant. I'll do an hour.

Let's go to the central Washington Square Park. And that's how Patreon works. Slow roll your content and get paid more. Let's go to Washington Square Park and do a five-minute special, and you get the crowd to laugh, and we put that on Kickstarter. See how many fans want five minutes more from you. You know, I'm sensing sarcasm. No, no, no.

That's legitimately how Patreon works. That's legitimately how it works. A teaser. Very interesting idea, actually. There's lots of ideas. I didn't say I don't have an hour. I said, if you're saying come up, do another hour. If it doesn't work six months later, that's going to be a little tricky.

He's taking all the bite out of that. Now it's just five minutes. You can do that forever. I'm honestly saying now, make a five-minute special and treat it. This is funny. Treat it like an hour special. Treat it like an hour special. Roll it out like an hour special.

Now that's funny. That's interesting. I'm watching CNN. Did anybody predict that the leaders of the heads of states with nuclear arsenals would be tweeting at each other in 140 characters? The fire and fury and now Kim Jong-un or whatever is making fun of him. A Twitter war. Well, Trump got confused and he said he's going to overtake Westeros.

So he doesn't understand. It's a Game of Thrones reference. There's something really wrong here in the world. They're tweeting at each other. I don't know. Is that disturbing? It's horrifying. It's a bit of a momentum killer given what we were talking about.

I'm sorry. Let's get back to you, Dan. Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay, wait, wait. You don't have to get back to me, but now we're really in the nitty-gritty of the comedy. You see, once again, this is something I've said a million times. I mean, when we get into a discussion about it, we don't have to talk about me.

We can talk about Ray Allen. You're absolutely right. I am not interested in comedy. So listen. I swear to God. I swear to God. Let's be honest here. Host of the Comedy Cellar podcast.

Let's get in touch with Jason Like I like talking to comedians About things in the world I don't like talking to comedians About their fucking cousin Sheila joke Okay Then let's invite The appropriate comedians

For a particular topic No no You don't invite Aruba Ray Allen For Korea Let's talk Let's talk Let's invade Aruba You want to talk about

Trump Let's do this Let's talk to the bosses At Sirius Yes And see if they will keep the show on without me. No. Or you can replace me.

I think this is funny, actually. Yes, but I'm living through it. That was funny. Dan, here's a good question. I literally have an anxiety attack every time I come to this show. I don't want to do it anymore. I'll tell you what.

I've said this a billion times. I said, no, for the love of God, can we meet an hour a week and discuss which guests and which talk? He don't want to do it. Not only that, he doesn't even want to... I come in an hour,

a half hour before the show tonight that maybe talk with him. He's got another thing. I was being interviewed. But if you can't leave... My tablet magazine. If you can't leave a half hour... What are you not getting out of this experience

that you want? What is it that you want to get out of this that you're not getting? What do you mean? I want to have my vision of the podcast. You want it to be more organized? It's a radio show, Dan. My vision, whether it's I would like it to be more organized. I would also like if he wants to talk about politics and

what's going on in the world, invite the appropriate guest for those topics. We invited Rebecca Trent. She is an expert in alternative comedy as well. She owns a comedy club that's had financial difficulties. What are the alternative

comics saying about North Korea this week? My favorite joke that I saw so far on Facebook was that South Korea is really hoping that Donald Trump realizes there's two Koreas That was my favorite one-liner that I saw so far

What is alternative comedy? We've had this discussion before I think the Creek and the Crave I've never been there, unfortunately I've looked at the schedule though you have a really creative schedule you have lots of different things going on whereas let's say I want the best comedians in the world

I come here I feel like you've got the live Legend of Skanks you've got this, you've got that you do a lot of creative stuff with your schedule maybe to try to draw people we have about 150 live events a month but it's predominantly stand-up comedy. And it's a lot of fun,

but we try and say yes to anything that sounds like it's going to be cool. And I thought it was clever that you'd start in Long Island City, which suddenly came out of nowhere. That wasn't clever. That wasn't strategy at all. That was just my dumb bosses

were willing to sell the place to me, and I didn't want to work for the assholes that were looking to buy. That's all it was. Flukeism complete. By the way, Al Tucher is now... Incidentally, by the way, it's not just stand-up comedy I want to talk about, but the world of show business and what goes on at the cellar.

This is like a soap opera. Do you understand? First of all, the comedy cellar is opening up a room in Vegas. We also have a TV show in the works here. Am I allowed to talk about that? There's a lot going on. You can talk about anything you want. What's the Vegas thing?

Vegas, I really think that may be my Waterloo. Oh, honey. I really think it might be a mistake. Really? I don't know what I'm doing. Have you felt like that from the beginning, or is that something that creeped up on you throughout the experience? You've got to get a hotel to just license the brand.

It's not that. Everything's in place. It's just I just don't know if the people will come and in Vegas I don't know what I would do if they don't come. I don't know what I'm getting myself into.

Which hotel are you in? The show has to be catered a little bit to Vegas. I don't know if the show is even the critical. I mean, the show has to be good. Sure. The marketing, all of it. I don't know.

I'm not even sure why I'm doing it. You told me the reason you were doing it when you started doing it. Because you're not having a fourth child. What did I tell you? You said, first of all, to make money. Second of all. No, I did not say that. There's no way I said that because that was never the reason I was doing it.

Also to establish... Well, I'm pretty sure you said that. No, I never said that was the reason I was doing it. Are you doing it to establish a West Coast presence? What's that? Are you doing it to establish a presence out there on the West Coast? That's the idea, branding, right? This is why I came to it.

The Comedy Show is very, very successful now. Yes. And a... Iconic. And any normal Jew in my position is saying, okay,

how do I capitalize on this success? I don't want to raise my prices. So the first thing I did was opening up another room around the corner.

Then I opened up another room, but it's still... Not enough. So I'm like, all right, I don't want to try to run a room like in L.A.

because running a room means the food and the beverage and the staff and the... You're just a restaurant owner again. And I don't know how to do that by remote control. I'm not one of those guys who has that skill set, and I'm not really interested in learning it. I figure in Vegas, if I could just basically set the room up and provide the comedians, they'd take care of everything. And then I have an excuse to go to Vegas a few times a year.

Honey, I'm sorry. I've got to go to Vegas again, sweetheart. I'm sorry, but I've got to go. And then the name Comedy Cellar up in lights, you know, like in that big Caesars Palace video thing. That will be a thrill the long time it happens. And I'm saying all this saying that none of these really sound like good reasons to open an event. It's a loss leader, and it's a new business model he's introducing to a town, and he doesn't know how they're

going to take it. I mean, that's the risk. Did you have to put up money? I'm going to have to put in some money, but not if I lose it, I lose it. It's not a crazy amount of money. But I imagine the hotel's taking more of the risk. No, I'm taking risk, and I have some people investing with me, and the total risk is not that big. That's the idea. It's just that there is no real risk. No, I'm taking risk and I have some people investing with me and the risk the total risk is not that big.

That's the idea. It's just that there is no real risk because the room exists regardless. I'm sorry to interrupt. I have to go run around the corner. I wish we had started with this topic at the beginning of the radio show. Great to meet you, James. Rebecca, I know we've been Facebook friends for a long time.

Nice to meet you in person. I'm being tapped on the shoulder by Liz Friati who secretly has a crush on me. Great to be on the show. I believe that Liz does have a crush on Rayelle. Thank you, Dan. But James, this is the thing. It's not losing the money.

I'm 6-0 or something like that. I don't want to... You just don't want a loss in your column. I'm afraid of one in the loss column. I've never had that. I don't have that. It scares the shit out of me. Look, Stephen Colbert just wrote this great article.

He was just interviewed in this great article in, I think, Vanity Fair. He said when he bombs on stage, when he used to do stand-up, he used to bomb on stage, he had to lean into it and not just learn from it, but enjoy it. So you have to be ready. And if fear is the only reason why you're not going to do something, it's not a good enough reason. It just isn't. Especially if the financial risk isn't going to hurt you in the long run. Well, it's also, you know, he's writing about leaning into it.

Because I've been in precarious situations where I did have to, like, double my things. And, like, my instinct, which was always good, was when things weren't doing well, was never to cut back, but was to invest more heavily in the thing. And I always managed to turn around. But now I have three kids. Yeah, I know. The risks are different. And I always managed to turn around. But now I have three kids. Yeah, I know.

The risks are different. And I don't want to be sucked into that. But you just said that the financial risk wasn't overwhelming. No, at the time. I don't want to be taking time away from my kids. Okay, I have an idea. Why don't you try to de-risk a little bit? Sell off 20% of your particular operation for the exact amount that you would have.

Because it's personality driven. It's about him. Liz is going to be a partner. Essie is going to be a partner. My other partner, George, is going to be a partner Essie is going to be a partner My other partner We have a good team I mean I'm doing

I think I made a lot of good decisions About this I just don't know Vegas But you know Everybody Most people Well I'll say this It's trial by fire

But it's a learning curve You're going to figure it out The people at the Caesars organization They know Vegas very well. And they are really behind this. They really think it'll work. They've really been pushing me to do it. If anybody knows, they know.

And they love a comedy room there because nobody has to sit for an hour-long Cirque du Soleil show. They can go in and out. They're going to push people to your comedy room versus the other shows. You mean people going in and out of the comedy show? Yeah, yeah other shows You mean people going in and out of the comedy show? Yeah, in Vegas people go in and out of the comedy show But that's not what you want You don't want people walking in and out of the comedy show

That's what the hotel wants They want people gambling on the floor The show is just there as a break For when they're broke and drunk from gambling If the show is just a break For broke and drunk gambling people We don't want it. That's not a notion behind

the comedy. If I may speak for Noah. We want him. I also don't think that's the Vegas energy of shows. That's more like the Connecticut energy of shows. Do you know what I mean? Going to comedy shows in Vegas, there's a lot more production behind it. It's a lot more like you want to sit and watch. And the ticket prices are higher.

Do you get big name comedians? I don't want big name comedians. You're doing your thing. You're doing your business model there. That's what I figured. I want it to look basically like a Comedy Star lineup. You're going to have so many amazing people to choose from that are there

already. I don't know. I think it's fucking brilliant, man. I'm excited about it. Maybe you want to be involved in it. Well, if I had I'm excited about it. I think it's really brilliant. Maybe you want to be involved in it. Well, if I had two nickels to rub together, I'd throw you one. Maybe you could do some sweat equity. Let me know, man. I'll be involved with that if I can. No, no, no. I'm involved. Get out of here, buddy.

James, how do you want to be involved? Sweat equity or cash? I'll do cash, but I'll tell you something because I'm learning this business because I want to learn. This is the first time I'm saying this, but I bought a piece of stand-up New York. So I really want to learn this business. Cut. I'll be done.

Wow. Well, there you go. Spilling secrets to you. What are you doing now? Shit. I'm making this a good podcast. I'll be done. Now we got a show.

You bought a piece of stand-up New York. Thank you. Congratulations, man. Thank you. How much of a cut do you have? What's your piece of the pie? That I won't say, but it's a small piece just for me to learn. Thank you. Congratulations, man. Thank you. How much of a cut do you have? What's your piece of the pie? That I won't say, but it's a small piece. Did you know that?

You didn't tell me? Damn. I asked him not to say anything. He's out. He's out. No, no, no. I asked him as a paper not to say anything. Before the show.

It's my fault. How long have you had it? I closed a week ago. You swinging your dick around? You making some changes? No, no, no. This is the first time I mentioned it to anybody. Before the show, James Althusser.

I'm on Sirius XM. Before the show, James Althusser. What's the pronunciation precisely? Althusser? I'll touch her fast. I'll touch her. Before the show, Althusser said to me, so you've been working stand-up in New York?

I said, no, not that often. He goes, well, you should come back. I saw your photo there. But the point is, is Althusser, now I know why he was saying this. There you go. And he said, well, I'll have, he said, I said, is Candy still booking? He is, now I know why he was saying this. And he said, I said, is Candy still booking? He said, yeah, Candy will contact you tomorrow.

I'm thinking, how the hell can he just say Candy will contact me tomorrow and now I know how? Because he is the new part owner of the stand-up theater. So you're a competitor. Well, I figured Creek in the Cave is here. We're all friends. We were.

We're not. Sorry. were. We're not. Sorry. Let me just say this. I love the Comedy Cellar. I think this is the best comedy club in town. And I say this as a part owner of Stand Up New York. And this is an iconic place. And so I'm the biggest fan.

And I say this. I want to squash you like a bug. That's fine. No, I'm kidding. That didn't come off well. I thought it you like a bug. That's fine. No, no, I'm kidding. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. That didn't come off well. The last... I thought it would get a laugh. Listen, of course, I have no...

I only have problems... I've had some problems with competitors, but it was always their fault. Like, no, no. It sounds ridiculous. It's really true. I say the same thing, Darwin. It's probably true.

I never have any issue with anybody wanting... I mean, why shouldn't you? Look, I go... I've been to shows here in the past couple weeks. I love this place. Oh, nice poaching. You better be careful. I had a problem with the guys on the street because they send their flyer people in front

of the place trying to hawk customers off our line. How about when they send their booker into your room? Does that ever bother you? They do that to you, right? Oh, yeah. That would bother me. Yeah. So I'm saying that's always there.

But the idea that someone who owns a business in my field is an enemy no actually it's a small group of people who kind of understand each other it doesn't make you

an enemy but you are still a competitor you're not an enemy that's a stretch I'm not trying to be a gazillionaire from owning a tiny

piece of stand in New York I just love the industry but to be clear no one is going to squash you like a bug

then I will then I will learn accordingly. This is not where I make my income or livelihood. This is just a fun piece, right? I just wanted to do this. I think it's terrific, actually. I do things I want to do. I was just about to say, that's the best reason to do it.

You want to have some fun. We only go around once. It's such a cliche. You really do. That's true. Life is short. Life is short. Do what you want.

Have some fun. Look, every comic, in a sense, is a competitor. Exactly. Like Daniel Day-Lewis. That's what I'm getting at, yes. Two other comics. So there is that. You are a competitor.

But at the same time, we're all comics, and we have an understanding and a common goal. So, you know, the competitive spirit does enter into it, but so does the camaraderie. Sure. And I do think that a robust, I don't think the Comedy Cellar wants to be the only comedy club in town. I don't think that's, in theory, I don't. Look, you want your comedians to do well, and they do four or five shows a night here, and then they're heading back uptown or whatever,

they're going to stop off someplace else, which is what happens. You told me Elon Gold was here last night. He was at Stand Up New York a half hour before he was here. Exactly. He's dead to me. Do you see? There's so much culture involved that you don't know about. I'm sure he was perfecting his material there

so he could do a better job here. Sure, but that's not the point. I'm naive. Maybe I did everything stupid in this podcast. In which case case I apologize. No, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. I just think that it's important.

I'm going to buy a creek in the cave next. It's the creek in the cave. It's important to, I don't know, not blow up the comic spot a little bit. They need to be able to jump around from place to place, and it does get people's back up a little bit. No, no. You know what I mean?

I'm not saying you specifically, but I mean it does. It bugs people sometimes. It bugs Lou. You know what I mean? I'm not making that up. Who's Lou? From Caroline's.

It bugs Lou? Do you know what I mean? Feranda? When people perform in other places? Yeah, he wants people to know. If he's bringing someone in for a weekend,

he just wants them for his club. You know what I mean? But all these places are Caroline's, Comedy Cellar, The Stand, whatever. I don't know. They're kind of competing in the same almost geographic location. And we've kind of gotten away with being the middling clubs that they don't really worry about too much. Can I just say something on Lewis' behalf?

Oh, sure. It is a little different because Caroline's has a headliner. Right. And they have a famous... And they're bringing people in from out of town. And they hope to sell tickets based on the name of that guy. So if that guy is on the Comedy Cellar lineup, potentially someone who sees him in the cellar

might not buy a ticket at Caroline's that weekend. Right. So I understand that. No, I think it's completely understandable, too. It doesn't really affect us in the same way. It would. Now, just on GP, Esty can't stand when anybody who works here

works anywhere else. I think that's understandable though. It cuts through her like a knife. But comedians who perform at your club also perform at the Comedy Cellar all the time, right? Absolutely. I wouldn't say all the time, but yeah, Wednesdays.

There's always Cellar guys there on Wednesdays. Yes, they're there a lot. And that't say all the time, but yeah, there, well, yeah. Wednesdays, there's always seller guys there on Wednesdays. Yeah. I mean, I, I, yes, they're there a lot. And, and that's part of the thing is that like, I don't, I don't really promote that they're there very often and they'll, unless it's through Legion of skanks. Um, and it, part of that is out of respect for like knowing that. And, and oftentimes they'll even ask me, is it okay for me to do a show and just not say anything, not promote that I'm doing it, even like a one-man show and not promote that I'm doing it because I just want to... No, just because they want to do their own thing and not

necessarily have a bunch of audience members which they knew that they would be exposing new material. It's like what you were talking about, so they can work out new stuff. I think people work out stuff at the other clubs for here. They do. That's 100% true. Anybody that performs at the Cellar is going to bring their money here 100% of the time.

I'm a big believer in the concept, and you're probably going to agree with me, of an even exchange. Meaning that somebody does a spot, we give them $100 or whatever it is, and that is 100% of the transaction. There's no hidden obligations. They're not also doing a spot, getting $100.

And now they have to not perform somewhere else. If that's what I want, I say, listen, I'm going to pay you. And in return, you're not going to perform elsewhere or whatever it is. But you can't have both ways. You can't give them a hard time performing somewhere else, but not being ready to make up the income that they're losing.

So I'm like, of course, perform wherever you want. Is it possible that the very reason so many wonderful comics want to live in New York is that there is a robust comedy scene with numerous clubs? Yes, right here. You can get up 25 times a week if you want to. But if the comedy is the only club in town,

that would make this city less attractive, perhaps, to the comedian. 100%. It would turn it into Acme or, you know, There's a great example in business media, which is CNBC was around and then Fox Business started in 2007. I was on CNBC all the time at the time.

I got the call. We never want to see you on Fox Business. And everybody got that call. And Fox Business now is crushing CNBC. Like, because they didn't make those calls. So it was like open house at Fox Business. And then they just dominated after that. I agree with that.

And meanwhile, nothing's touching the iconic status of a comedy seller. Like, everybody watches Louis, and he's walking down to the comedy seller. This is the place. Wouldn't you say? A hundred percent. Yeah. Well, thank you. I really hope you don't quit. I'm worried about you. The shull? Yeah. wouldn't you say? 100% yeah well thank you

I really hope you don't quit I'm worried about you the show? yeah I had it with the show no no don't leave the show and I'll talk to you

about Las Vegas and I'm gonna produce Dan Natterman's one hour five minute special I don't know that I want to do this show on my own to be honest with you

you can choose any co-host you want you told me that the weeks I'm not there are better. No, I didn't say that. Didn't you say that? He did say it. No, there was a couple of weeks where I said... But who were your co-hosts when Noam wasn't there, Dan? I never said, the weeks Noam's not here

are better. I've said on a couple of occasions, we had a great show last week, and Noam wasn't there. That doesn't mean that every show... We've done great shows with Noam. We've done great shows without Noam. We've done great shows without Noah. We've done great shows without me. I wasn't put on this earth to be a radio talk show host.

They may be better without me. I could totally live with that. First off, I could say as an avid listener, I need both of you on the podcast. Well, we have a big fan here that doesn't want to come join us, unfortunately. But if you have anything to add to this discussion, she doesn't want to come on. Okay, there's a fact.

We do have way more listeners than I realize. I will say that. Oh, we do? Yeah. And by the way, there's a ton of comedy podcasts out there. There's probably too many comedy podcasts. And this is like a great comedy podcast. It's a pretty well-known needle in a haystack.

Sirius has re-upped us four years in a row. That's amazing. Now, I'll touch her. Apropos of the previous discussion with regard to my vision of the podcast versus Noam's vision of the podcast, where do you fall on that line? Would you rather hear more

talk about the medical profession? Wait, put your headphones on. Would you rather hear more discussion about The Vegas Room, a possible future comedy Seller TV show, the lives of the comics That work here, their trials and travails As well as the comedy business and show business At large, mixed in with

The occasional, or more than occasional Discussion of huge events That everybody is talking about I like all of it, because I like the vision of hearing The smartest philosophers on the planet right now are the comedians. So I like hearing their vision of the world. I just went to see Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle. They didn't talk about the comedy

business. They talked about Trump, marriage, divorce and North Korea. So that's special. And it's also great for me to hear about comedy. I love comedy. Given that, you know, comics not all for sure. Some have a philosophical bent.

Then if we're going to go in that direction, as I said, we should put some thought into what the most appropriate comics are for a particular topic. And sometimes topics come... I like that it's totally random. I think you guys should just show up with five bullet points on a piece of paper and shoehorn the conversation as hard as you can like you do every week. I have a journalist waiting for me. It's great. And I got to go talk to her. I'll you guys should just show up with five bullet points on a piece of paper and shoehorn the conversation as hard as you can like you do every week. I have a journalist waiting for me. It's great.

And I gotta go talk to her. I'll be here next week. Actually, next week I'm away. Okay. But I'll be there the week after and then we'll decide. Okay. Well, I don't agree that it should just be random. Put any comics. Some comics don't have a lot to say about certain topics. I don't have a lot to say about certain

topics. No, oftentimes I'll have to get into topics that I know nothing about at topics. I don't have a lot to say about certain topics. Noam oftentimes wants to get into topics that I know nothing about at all. And then I'm not being utilized to my full effect, and I might as well not be here, which is fine. I think that you being cranky at Noam is you being utilized to your fullest effect. That's part of the show.

But it drives Noam insane, and it's giving him agita. Where did Steve go? Well, that's good. And it may not be good show, but it drives Noam insane, and it's giving him agita. Where did Steve go? Well, that's good. He's not on the podcast. And it may not be good for his mental health. It sounds like it's taking a toll on him. I believe it is. Let's talk about you for a second. Well, okay.

We don't have all the time in the world. How much time do we have? We can edit. Also, on the podcast version, we can put the whole thing on. It's only on the radio where we need to just do an hour. So go ahead, I'll touch it. So I think you should come up with a plan other than waiting to be picked by a Hollywood producer. That could be one plan. It's not a bad plan.

It's not bad to be chosen by Netflix and to pursue that. I'm pursuing that in other directions for other things. But you have to also pursue every angle. I don't disagree with you. So I don't disagree with you. All right. So I don't think we're in disagreement about that.

And if you want to produce me, you know, that's something. You can do an hour up here. He wants to be produced. Produce him. You can do an hour up here. Do the five-minute idea. Yeah, I love the five-minute idea. I love the five-minute idea outside,

like a David Blaine type of street magic. Let's do street comedy in Union Square, the Dan Natterman five-minute special, and then we'll figure out a thousand ways to get it out there. That's not a bad idea, although in public I may be a little skittish. I'm pretty close to the outside part, but I like everything else that you say. I've got an idea for that. I'm sorry to interrupt. No, go ahead. I'll open for you so you. I'm sorry to interrupt. No, go ahead.

I'll open for you so you'll be less skittish. Oh, my goodness. How long have you been doing stand-up? I've been doing it about a year, but maybe more intensively the past six months. Okay. Three times a week. Well, he's very, very new. I'm very new.

Well, that's something. But I have done street comedy to tighten up a little bit. And so I feel I could loosen you up. I get stage fright doing normal comedy. I'm not a relaxed guy. I've done it on the subway. He's not really a man on the street kind of guy. I mean, if it's like man in the street where it's one-on-one interview,

but you're talking about doing a comedy show outside. I've got an idea. We'll go on a subway car. No, no way. No, no. I've done it. It's great. And I'm an introvert.

Who's the comedian that used to do that? I mean, that's a great idea if I had the balls to do it. John Leguizamo used to do that. He would go in and do the announcing in different voices

and stuff like that. That's amazing. Let's try it. Let's try everything. We could try everything. Well, I mean, maybe just start with five minutes that Dan's

comfortable with and make a special out of that and then go from there. Yeah. Let's pick a couple days at the end of this month and we'll do the Dan And do it in a different spot.

Do it all over the city. Like all the different clubs that show you love. Oh my God. That's a great idea. Let's do one joke per club and edit it together as one special.

And we'll hit every single club. Well, there's maybe. We'll talk about the details. We'll talk about the details. Okay, but I'm just saying What are you saying about Andrew Schultz already did that

according to Liz Ferriati. Oh my goodness. He beat you to the punch. I think if we're just saying... What are you saying about... Andrew Schultz already did that according to Liz Ferriati. Oh, my goodness. He beat you to the punch. I think if we're going to do something... That's good knowledge to have, but we could come up with 20 other ideas

and figure out what works. All right, I'm going to get into business with Al Tucho. I want to get into bed with Al Tucho. That's an expression we use in the business. I don't mean literally.

I just need to warn you I don't want to have any more children. As long as you're okay with that. All right. You have children? I have two daughters. Okay.

Well, that's just a term of art we use in show business, meaning I want to work with you. Okay. Thank you for telling me. I worked at HBO for many years. Okay. And I own a comedy club. Gotcha. All right.

Well, as long as we're all on the same page. I guess that's unless somebody else has something they want to bring up. We are, I think, ready to close this out. Do you have a new book? Is there a new book that you just published? No, in fact, this is the first year since 2003 that I'm not writing a book. Good for you.

Yeah, because I'm doing comedy. You're doing stand-up. Okay. That's awesome. Because it's fun. I'm not trying to beat anybody. It's just the funnest thing I'm doing right now. That's awesome. And it's scary

as hell. I admire you. How often do you get up a week? I go three times a week. And are you doing open mics or are you book spots? No, no, no. I never do an open mic. Why is that? Because I feel like you're the average of the five people you surround yourself with so I always try to get in as stressful

and terrifying lineup as possible. My ideal lineup is everybody has a one-hour Netflix special except me, and I have to up my game or be the total idiot on the stage. Wow. And it's scary. I'm terrified. Do you have a favorite host that you like to work with? I like everybody that I've worked with.

Yeah? Yeah. I don't dislike anybody. Well, I wasn't asking for the negative. I was wondering if there was somebody you wanted to shout out that you feel like is a really great host. I'll shout out three recently. The last three was Gino Bisconti, Ashley Morris, and Luis Gomez. Awesome.

Luis J. Gomez. He gets very upset when you lose that J, my friend. The J has to be there. But I'm sure there's others I'm forgetting. I've really liked every host. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. Well, James, I'll touch you. Welcome to this crazy

crazy fun house that is stand-up comedy. By the way, I don't think no one was upset, and I'll just ask this right out of the pocket. You don't think he was upset that I said that right here? We've got Rebecca right here. No, I don't think so. I think he was kidding around. I absolutely do not believe. And he has great respect for you. He likes, see, Noam likes intellectuals.

That's right. You've written books. That trumps anything else you could do. That's why he wanted to ask all the, like, big questions today. Yeah, because Noam's, Noam, more than anything else, wants to be, like, an intellectual pundit. Like, his dream would be to be, like, Bill Maher or whatever.

So let's make a deal. Let's make a deal. Let's, and Stephen's listening to this as the producer here. Let's the three of us come back on and only talk politics with Noam. I will do that. Well, you can talk to Noam about it. No, I want to talk. You talk about anything.

You can talk about anything. All right, go ahead. Rebecca can talk about anything. You know, whatever. No, I want to talk. You talk about anything. You could talk about anything. All right, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, that's fine. Rebecca could talk about anything. That's fine. We're not unwilling.

He's listening. I feel like you've sold him harder on a lot of other ideas tonight than this one. No, no. I think this one might have bombed a little.

Just please agree to this. Please agree to this. Yeah. Fine, I agree. All right. All right. Stephen, can you put it together? Sure. All right. And. I agree. Steven, can you put it together?

Sure. We'll talk more about some of those ideas. Thank you for listening, everybody. Please send us emails to wherever the email address is. I'm not even sure what it is. Do you know what it is, Liz? Never mind, then. Forget the email. You can tweet us if you have any thoughts

about the podcast, the radio show, what you like, what you don't like. And you get stupid tweets. Huh? You get stupid tweets. Every now and again, it's the same people tweeting us. Gunnar, this guy Gunnar. That's very nice.

Gunnar loves the show. He does. But I like more than four or five people, the same people, tweeting at us. So please let us know. If there's something you don't like about the show, tweet us and let us know. Otherwise, we can't change anything. I can't read your mind. Your numbers are higher than you think they are.

I can't read your mind. Remember? You have to take the first step and call us at Apex Tech. Please keep on listening, and we'll see you soon at the Comedy Cell, the show. Thank you very much. Thank you, guys.