The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Jeffrey Gurian and Dov Davidoff

Episode Date: August 2, 2019

Jeffrey Gurian and Dov Davidoff

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, here on Sirius XM Channel 99. We're here actually, hey Max, we're here actually above the Comedy Cellar because downstairs our TV show is being shot. So we're at the regular podcast studio. I'm here as always With Mr. Dan Natterman How you doing, Dan? Fine, thank you Fine, thank you Let's pick up the energy level, boys

Yeah, I am exhausted I can tell Oh my God Yes, but you always seem to find energy When you didn't know That you didn't know yet He's a passionate man If I brought up the Mueller Report

All of a sudden Did you say Mueller Report? Did anybody say Mueller Report? And you mispronounced it That really gets me The Mueller Report all this time. Oh, come right to life. Did you say Mueller Report? Did anybody say Mueller Report? And you mispronounced it. That really gets me. The Mueller Report. Dove Davidoff. Do we have some credentials?

Dove Davidoff is a comedian, actor, author, real estate developer, and survivor of childhood. Hilarious. He may be seen regularly at the Comedy Cellar. All right, all right.

Come on with this. Who wrote that? Who wrote that? Survivor of childhood. I wrote Survivor of Childhood. And Jeffrey Gorian, who has not been on our show for a couple years, with this. Who wrote that? Survivor of Childhood. I wrote Survivor of Childhood. Jeffrey Gorian, who has not been on our show for a couple years, I think. Yeah, it's been quite a while. Who almost died.

I don't know. We had you on since you almost died. Jeffrey Gorian is a comedian and an author who made innumerable, innumerable television appearances. I didn't write that. There's no number. It's impossible to count. It cannot be counted. Just too many. Including I didn't write that. There's no number. It's impossible to count. It cannot be counted. That's right.

Just too many. Including The Kroll Show. Is that Nick Kroll? Yeah. And Crashing. He has written for the likes of Rodney Dangerfield and Joan Rivers and is the author of six books. The newest on happiness is a bestseller on Amazon.com.

So you're like the, what's her name, the woman running for president, Williamson? Marianne Williamson. You're like the Marianne Williamson of comedy. I actually did a radio show with her once. Yeah, I don't know. I missed the comparison. Why Marianne Williamson? She's very into spiritual things. Oh, I see.

I'm not familiar with Williamson. This book is a spiritual guide to happiness. A spiritual guide. Healing your not familiar with Williamson. This book is a spiritual guide to happiness. A spiritual guide. Healing your heart by changing your mind. She's running on the Trump. We need to fight the dark psychic forces. Oh, of course.

She wants to bring love to the world. Yes. But you know what? That's going to go really far. Yes. I wouldn't vote for her, but she doesn't bother me as much as some of the others. It's a nice concept. It's a nice concept.

Sorry to interrupt you, but you mentioned the Comedy Cellar TV show that's taping downstairs. I just very quickly was wondering what your thoughts are on season two of the Comedy Cellar TV show. Yeah, how do you feel

about being the EP on a show, Noam? That's great. Congratulations. Yeah, congratulations on that. That's huge. It's not only to get a show on the air,

to get a second season. Oh, wow. They're driving you a little nuts? No, no, they're not, they're not driving me nuts at all. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Right. Of course. No, actually the, the network's been terrific. It's just the, uh, the show itself, um, has taken on a life of its own and, uh, I don't have that much say in it. Right. And to the extent that I want some say in it,

like if I want to go to the mat for one of Dan's dumb jokes that I think should be in there, it takes such a lot out of me that I just kind of let them do what they want. You were going to negotiate more influence going into the second season, but you just decided. I just let that go because- Provided that the quality is high overall.

Do you want to have a dog in that fight, or do you want to live your life and run your business? It's the best commercial for the Comedy Cellar. I mean, imaginable. Well, that's what he decided. That's right. And people seem to like the show. I mean, I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It feels like a successful show when I watch it in terms of just the watchability. You turn it on. It's from that week. I think it's a very successful format. There's parts of it I really am not happy with. Okay. But I suppose Seinfeld probably felt that way about his show.

I don't know. Of course. You know, me and Seinfeld, we have our shows. Of course. Of course. I'll have to see what Jerry thinks. Are you talking about the show Dwarmen? Yeah, the show Dwarmen.

That's the show Dwarmen. Dwarmen Chronicles. Have you noticed an increase, say, in the social media following of the comedy sellers? I don't even know. Because you're up to like 70,000 Instagram followers on the Comedy Cellar Instagram account. Well, that's a credit purely to Liz and her aggressive nurturing of that Instagram account. No, there's things like, there's this table segment. Have you seen the show, Jeffrey?

Just a couple of times, yeah. Yeah, there's this table segment, which is not what I'd like it to be. Right, right, right, right. But, you know, back in the 90s, like Evening at Caroline's and like America's Fun is Home Videos was a show like that. But they kind of began this whole kind of contrived, supposedly improvised, but scripted kind of... Comedians talking to each other.

Yeah, comedians talking to each other. And it was never good, even back then when it had never been seen before. And it seems that we've never been able to really shake that. So where I would like to have the comedians just talk like we're talking about whatever is going on in the news, and then go to them being funny on stage.

And I prefer that... I like your idea. I prefer that it was kind of like a little controversial or just I prefer your idea as well. Or just more real. Right. And that fell on deaf ears? Well, it hasn't fallen on deaf ears. Partly the comedians fall too because they're always on.

You know, when they roll the camera, it's Part of that is we know that what Comedy Central is going to use and what they're not going to use. And I think we assume correctly that they're going to use the ba-dum-bum-sh. They're going for the y to use the they're going for the yuck so if we want to get on tv we're be i think we're encouraged to to have to be yeah to make it funny we make it not which is not always conversational right so this is the thing so so unless unless i could take which which they're not going to let me do unless i could take total control of the show right and then hammer it out the way I had originally conceived of the show, which I know would be good.

I know it would be good. Yes, I agree with you. And I also know that if it wasn't good, I would know it wasn't good and I would adjust. But unless I can do that, which I can't, to like yap at everybody's heels around the edges and not really change anything, but maybe just change 15 seconds here or 30 seconds there with all the emotion it causes me I kind of just and then dealing with Ray Allen you've got your family you've got an Ellen you've got

an Adam and your co-host is not an easy person to read well I'm the co-host here I have nothing to do with the comedy seller show and when I say I have nothing to do with it I mean I have nothing to do with it because you are the co-pilot on a spiritual level of everything that Noam does.

And just to tell you, and just to tell you how little I get from this show. You're talking about the comedy seller show. Yeah, like when I came home

from a meeting with the president, was it Kent Alterman? Yeah, yeah. The president of Comedy Central. Right,

yeah. And he told me he wants to buy the show that I thought of. Like, I sold the show and he's gonna do it. He's gonna invest like, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars a week.

I go home to my wife. She's like, did you take out the fucking garbage? Oh my God. Oh God. Even at home. No respect. Nothing. You're like Rodney Dangerfield. Honey, I sold the show to Comedy Central. They're buying it. No, nothing. You're like Rodney Dangerfield. Honey, I sold the show to Comedy Central.

They're buying it, you know. Tremendous. No, of course. You know the odds are dropping. You know, your fucking Amazon one-click habit is supported at least for the next 12 months. Well, you know, no man is admired in his, I don't know, there's a, somewhere there's an expression for this. Nobody's respected.

Nobody respects the person who takes out their trash. And a lot more successful people than you have been dismissed by their wives as a schmuck, I assure you. Yes, but even for a day? It doesn't make it any better, boy. You think Zuckerberg's wife is going, oh, it's so great. Does she have a Chinese accent? Oh, so great. Yeah, I think she is. Yeah, I think she is Yeah, I think she might be

I think she might be Yeah Yeah, alright Speaking of wives Can we also just briefly check in with Dove? Dove is moving Can we talk about Oh, yeah, sure

We gotta get to his book We have an hour show And Jeffrey will talk about your book at length I made love to my wife today But we'll talk about the book Did you really? I did Why? For the first time in a while Well, because i had time you understand you take out the garbage

i make love once in a while maybe jeff has a i'm sorry jeff might have something to say about this dove moved to new jersey a couple years ago he decided he's gonna be no one year ago he decided he's gonna be a country mouse no i moved 10 miles outside the city city, for God's sake. Don't oversell it. He has a child. He wants to raise it properly. He can't take it anymore. Is that true? Well, listen, I have some business concerns. To get in and out of Brooklyn to a development is a three-hour drive during the middle of the day.

To get to the Comedy Cellar at night is 35 minutes for me to get home. Who told you not to move to Jersey because the commute was impossible? From my house, you can get to Brooklyn in 45 minutes. Well, to get to central Brooklyn, I got to drive through Manhattan, right? So that was the tough part for me. Now, I wasn't going to let that dictate where I live because that has a finite, there's a timeline.

I told you to move to Westchester. You take the Throgsdale Bridge right to Quincy. I agree. I agree. That would have been a better move had I known I was going to be in Brooklyn a lot. But anyway. But you may love to get there.

I got marooned out where I'm at was going to be in Brooklyn a lot. But anyway. I got marooned out where I'm at. I like being in the city because I have things during the day I need to do. But at some point, I'll pull the kid out. I don't know. What was the fight you were having with your wife that led you to... I don't like missionary style, you understand? I'm not a big eye contact guy.

Is that true? No. No, it's not necessarily true. It's kind of true. Yeah. I don't love true. Yeah, yeah. I don't love a ton of Icon. He looked me right in the eyes when he said it, too. Yeah, yeah. Weird. With regard to Missionary versus Doggy, and those are the two main styles.

Just hold your horses about your book. We have something important to talk about here. I understand. This is Missionary or Doggy style. With regard, I can't. I felt resentment because you pushed me out of Brooklyn,

but go ahead. I'm just saying, doggy, I prefer missionary. Doggy, visually. Visually, when I'm watching a porno,

I prefer doggy. Doing it, I get more of a, I get more out of missionary. Because you want to connect with the person you're dealing with? No, no,

because it's just, it just feels better. Do you know the etymology? Do you know the etymology of missionary? Because you want to connect with the person you're dealing with? No, no, because it's just, it just feels better. Do you know the etymology? Do you know the etymology of missionary? The angle is better? The angle is better. Well, you're wrong.

For me, it's better. Well, I don't know what kind of piece you're working with, but dog style's been the man's choice for many generations. Are you familiar

with the etymology of missionary style? You know what missionary was? Yeah, because... The missionaries went up to the savages and they said, you're doing it wrong

But all along they were doing it right They were doing a dog style on the beach. I'm telling you the missionaries went up. So you're doing it wrong This is the way to properly make love to a woman if you want to conceive And they ruined hundreds of years of banging for these for these the people on the beaches So you prefer the indigenous you prefer missionary. How about girl on top, Dan? I don't get much out of it. Visually, girl on top is satisfying,

but I also don't get much out of it. You can't control the pump. I'm not controlling the thrusting. Then like some control, the thrust. It's called thrust control.

You know that. But visually, it's quite lovely. Delightful. Well, depending on who's on top. Yeah, depending on who's on top. Sometimes you want

to forget about it. Visually. Anyway, Jeffrey, that's on top of you. Yeah, depending on who's on top of you. Sometimes you want to forget about it. Visually. Anyway, Jeffrey, that's a great segue to the book. Your book is on healing. Can I see it? Well, sexual healing is a part of healing. It's a part of healing. I actually did a thing on sexual healing on the Guys We Fuck podcast.

You're familiar with that, right? Yeah. Well, we have them both. Both of the guys we fuck. Corinne and Christina. Let the record show there's a dog here doing a yoga. What do you call that? In lotus position. Lotus position.

You know how hard that is to get a dog in lotus position? It's hard. Amazingly. And it says number one bestseller. Yeah, it was bestseller on Amazon. Not in the New York Times, but on Amazon. A number one bestseller. It is bestseller status.

That's amazing. All books or amongst books? Yes, among all books. No, in different categories. In categories like adult children of alcoholics, psychology, there were three different categories where it hit number one, and that's considered best seller status on Amazon.

But how specific are these categories? Don't push it. They're fairly specific. I'm not saying it's the bestseller status on Amazon. But how specific are these categories? Donataman, don't push it. They're fairly specific. I'm not saying it's the bestselling book in the world. I'm just saying that it did well because people are resonating with it. I think it's an accomplishment in any category. It's my sixth book. I never thought I'd have even one book.

Now, this came from your near-death experience? No, it came from my stuttering experience. I used to stutter so badly. Well into my 20s and beyond. I couldn't even say my name. I stuttered so badly. And I realized one day that I didn't stutter when I was alone. I only stuttered when I was trying to talk to somebody else.

Because of anxiety. Which told me that there was really nothing wrong with me. Oh, yes. You can't have a disability based on your location, right? That's right. A man with a limp limps in every room of his house. It was in your head. It's like premature ejaculation.

Of course, of course. I only do it when there's somebody else to be premature with. For me, it takes me 30 minutes. Did you see the back? Look at the, at the back.

Can I just have my, can I just have my wife that we're on the radio? Absolutely. Honey, hi, but we're on the radio. Hi, Juanita. Hi, Juanita.

Oh, yes. Say hi, honey. Hi, honey. Hi. Look Juanita. Oh, yes. Say hi, honey. Hi, honey. Hi. She looks fantastic. I think you guys make a very nice couple. Look how beautiful she looks when she's not around me. Look how happy she looks.

She is radiating when no one's around to dim that luster. What'd you say? Are you picking me up from the airport? Yeah, I'm going to pick you up from the airport, honey. Oh my God, I was worried about that. You never answered my text. All right, can I finish? Are you drunk?

This is not a conversation for the air. Have you been drinking on your last night in Rome? Yes. Yeah, I can tell. I'll say hi to Max. Okay. All right. All right, sweetheart, I have to go.

Bye. All right, bye. I love you. Love you, too. Safe travels. see. I have to go. Bye. Bye. I love you. Love you too. Safe travels. Safe travel. Have a safe. Be safe.

So. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. So the book is called Healing Your Heart by Changing Your Mind. Because the concept is that from the time we're kids, every time somebody hurts your feelings, lies to you, breaks a promise to you, it stays lodged inside of you. Yes. In your heart chakra, okay?

And there's this bullshit thing that they teach us that says sticks and stones will break your bones, but words will never harm you, which is the furthest from the truth because all the bruises you had as a kid healed up a long time ago. Yeah. But each one of us can remember something

that someone said to you that hurt your feelings in some way. And that stays lodged inside of us and it affects our self-esteem and our self-confidence, and it affects every decision you make in your life, because every time you're called upon to make a decision, you use your thoughts to figure out what to do, and if your thoughts are not valid,

your decisions are not gonna work for you. So what I had to do is, because I realized that I created a disability for myself, I had to take my mind apart and examine my thoughts and realize what thoughts I was holding that were limiting to me that did not allow me to speak fluently. And I cured myself.

I worked on myself literally for years. And as an avocation now, I work with stutterers and I teach them how not to stutter. Wait, wait, I don't understand. This is remarkable. So first of all, at what age did you start stuttering? About six or seven years old. So I was already speaking fine for a few years,

and then all of a sudden you start to stutter. That's how it is with most stutterers. They usually start five, seven years old, something like that. That's the normal pattern for stutterers. That happens a lot, yeah. And was there a particular catalyst, a particular incident? Well, that's an interesting thing. And when I work with studders,

I tell them that it's not important to ever say that you figured out exactly why, but it is important to look at all the possibilities. So when you're a little kid, the only people you're surrounded by are your parents. And so usually it's something that's going on in the household. Now you didn't wear your hair like this at that age, right?

I tried. What were they making fun of you about then? Jeff has a tremendous head of hair. My mother combed my hair in a pompadour and I used to say to her, I was the only kid in college with a neat army jacket. Everything was always neat. And I said, why is that important to you?

And she said to me, because I want you to be perfect. Oh God, that's heavy. And I know, and- He said, perfect. Years later, yeah, exactly. Exactly. What do you mean? Exactly. And years later, I brought that up to her and she later, exactly, exactly. What do you mean? Exactly.

And years later, I brought that up to her and she goes, I never said that. And I said, I will never forget it that you said that. Wow, that's a tough one. Yeah, exactly. So when you're a little kid and people expect you to be perfect, one way of fighting back is to say,

hey, I'll show you how imperfect I can be. I won't even be able to speak properly, which is a very strong possibility. So that made sense for me in my particular case. But let's not skip ahead, I really am interested in this. So when does your mother recall, did it go on like a light switch, like you just all of a sudden started stuttering,

or did you begin to stutter and it got worse and worse? I began to stutter in elementary school, and they put me in a speech class with other kids who stutter, which made me worse, because it gives you the thought that there's something wrong with you. And, you know- But there is something wrong.

There is something wrong. It's deeply ingrained. Yeah, but to this day, look, I'm not a speech pathologist and I tell that to everybody that I work with, but who would you rather learn from? Someone who conquered something or someone who read it in a book? Which is not to say you have to have a heart attack to be a cardiologist, you know? But when it's something emotional or psychological, it helps if you're talking to somebody

who conquered something, who went through it themselves. So I remember very clearly when I went to college, I made myself run for the president of the freshman class of Hunter College. And it was a big school, seven high schools fed into it. I didn't know anybody but the kids in my high school and I made myself I think I saw this movie, The King's Speech

I did a lot of press about The King's Speech when that movie came out people called me, I did a lot of press about it and I told my, I couldn't say my name I could never say Gurian I'm the king? You're called The King's Speech you're like the king well except he still stuttered

he still, well he still stuttered. He gave himself the confidence to make this amazing speech. So you were not stuttering at the time you ran? No, I was stuttering so badly I couldn't say my name. I asked other kids who knew me to be my campaign managers and introduce me to kids I didn't know and say, this is Jeffrey Gurian.

Because I could never say Gurian. Most stutterers can't say their own names. They have a very hard time saying their name. And my feeling is because your name is your identity. And if you're not happy with who you are, then you can't tell it to somebody else. You hold back. So I told myself if I could win the election, I wouldn't have to stutter anymore because it would show me that people liked me because I guess I had a feeling that I didn't fit in. I always was different from everybody else anyway.

I don't fall into a category. I don't have to tell you that. So I won the election, and I was the president of the freshman class of Hunter College. Wow. It was a great lesson for me because I still stuttered because it taught me that outside validation doesn't work. And not fitting in doesn't mean you're not liked, by the way. No, and I understand that now, but in those days when you're not liked, by the way. No, I understand that now, but in those days

when you were a kid, you don't know that. I was two years younger than everybody else. I looked very immature, but I won. So I'm president of the freshman class

and I'm still stuttering my ass off. And that's when I really started doing work on myself. All right, so I want to ask you a question. Go ahead. So, because I recently,

maybe Dan Manham, I met a journalist, I don't want to say his name, and I didn't know, didn't expect it, but I sat down with him, and he had a kind of, I don't know, I'm sorry. Some kind of speech impediment? a severe stutter, but it wasn't, that doesn't really explain it because he would be fluid for a certain number of words. But then when he caught on a word. Yeah. He couldn't get off the word. It was really a marked stutter.

And it's painful to watch, right? Because it's awkward. You don't know how to respond when somebody's doing it. So what I was, yes, that's right. And what I was taken with, with this guy and admired him was that he seemed not to I think I would withdraw into myself. I'd be afraid to go out

and meet new people. I might be afraid to have conversations. I might want to warn them in advance. I would be very self-conscious about it. But I didn't get the vibe from him. I'm sure at some point he was covering it up. Yet, he wasn't letting him keep him back, you know? Yeah, it's very courageous to do something like that.

And I'll tell you a crazy story. So how did you handle that? Well, let me say this first about that. I'm building a website about stuttering, right? Because it's part of my website now, but it's not separate. I'm building a website. A friend of mine suggests somebody to come to me who builds websites, and the guy comes to my door and he stutters so badly,

I can't believe it, by coincidence. I'm hiring this guy to build a stuttering website and he stutters horribly. And so I didn't know how to say it, I didn't want to embarrass the guy, but I said, well this is about stuttering, and he's stuttering. And so I'm winding up working with the guy.

He's building the website, and I'm teaching him not to stutter. For me, it took me years until I could control my mind enough to let go of it, and I remember very clearly before I stopped stuttering, I was very nervous because as much as you hate something that's part of you, it's so much a part of your identity

that you're afraid to let it go because who would I be? As much as you hate something that's part of you, it's so much a part of your identity that you're afraid to let it go. Because who would I be? As much as I hated it, I was the Jeffrey Gurion who stuttered. Stuttering Jeff. And just a prick, you're not a stuttering prick. Exactly, exactly.

I was just a prick. I would just be a fluent asshole. But it's a crazy thing that I was really very nervous and I had to let myself get used to it. The basic thing is that I'm convincing my subconscious mind that I no longer need to stutter. You're in a battle with your subconscious mind. Your subconscious mind doesn't know the truth. Yes, of course.

It believes whatever you tell it. And all of this is systemic as it relates to other psychological experiences, whether they be interpersonal relationships. Well, exactly. It's a much bigger story. It's not just about stuttering. It's about overcoming obstacles in your life.

Every single person has obstacles in their life. 100%. And a lot of times- Not Noam Dorman, but others. This is kind of like the final Star Trek movie. The hell are you talking about? What do they do? It's Spock's brother,

and he can reach into everybody's mind, and he frees them. Do you remember this one? No, I don't. I have a very good memory, but are you familiar with the serenity prayer? Yeah.

It says, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage, the change of things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference, which is the most, which is the most important line. Because if I was, the word prenup pops into my head.

If I wasn't, the word prenup pops into my head. If I wasn't given the grace. The wisdom to know the difference. The wisdom to know the difference is key. If you don't know the difference of what you can change and what you can't change, you wind up staying the same way your whole life.

That's a good one. Right? Yes, of course. I would still be stuttering today if I wasn't given the grace to figure that out. It's a very powerful message and it is systemic. So whether or not you're communicating with somebody who's stuttering today if I wasn't given the grace to figure that out. It's a very powerful message, and it is systemic.

So whether or not you're communicating with somebody who's stuttering or has another obstacle they're trying to overcome, I would imagine a lot of this is cross-pollinated. Well, it's about thought. It's about learning to control your thought. That's right. One of the things that kept me off stage for many years,

I didn't have the courage to perform. I had stage fright because if you start out in your 20s and nobody knows you, you have the courage to perform. I had stage fright because if you start out in your 20s and nobody knows you, you have the freedom to bomb. You go up on stage, nobody gives a fuck. Nobody ever heard of you. You're like a kid, right? But by the time I wanted to perform, I had already written for a lot of well-known people.

And I felt like people expected more of me. And I was too nervous to go on stage. I have more questions again do you have any recordings of yourself stuttering no i wish i did man i wish i did i only have people who remember me stuttering but i wasn't recording myself in those days i don't even know if they were recording last thing you'd want to do is record yourself you didn't like to hear yourself because i didn't know how it would work out i I didn't know like 20 years from now, I'm going to want to listen to myself stuttering. What was the most amount of stutters that you would do on a single letter?

I wasn't the worst stutterer. I would block. I remember very clearly being in school. This is a memory that I can't get rid of. I was called upon to answer a question and I stood up and literally nothing came out. And I couldn't get a word out. And I stood at my desk and all the kids stared at me and I stood up and literally nothing came out and I couldn't get a word out and I stood at my desk and all the kids stared at me and I felt my body turn red and I just stood there until I sat down I couldn't say a word and then I made myself sign up for

speech classes not therapy but to give speeches because I've always believed in confronting fear I come from a place where I was not taught that the world was a safe place. Very Jewish. My mother would have made me wear a sweater to bed. It was fucking horrible. Every bad thing was going to happen to me.

So I grew up with a lot of fears. My father told me condoms were for suckers. But go ahead. Go through. Your father was cool. I knew Manny. Your father was very cool.

So I had a lot of shit to overcome i had to work through all that as a member of the non-stuttering community what is an appropriate nsc nsc then as as uh as a fluent human as a fluent human being what is an appropriate response to somebody who's stuttering? That's the thing. And that's what I teach people. You can't say spit it out already. And you can't. You just stand there.

Is it okay to finish the word for them? No, no, it's terrible. You're not supposed to do that. You're not supposed to do that. But here's an interesting fact. They are controlling you in that moment. Usually stutterers feel powerless. When they're stuttering for you,

you can't go anywhere. You're standing there and you'll stand there until they're finished. And that's what I was just teaching this guy because stutterers tend to feel weak and powerless. They're also very polite and they don't feel that they deserve any attention. I remember very clearly also that I would make believe I didn't know the answer so that the other kids wouldn't think I thought I was smart. Not that I was smart, but that I thought I was smart. I would rather damage myself than hurt anybody else. I wanted them to feel good about themselves. So I developed a disability to hold myself back. Okay, now I have another question.

Your theory on stuttering is not the widely accepted theory. Don't many people believe that there's a neurological basis for stuttering? There are people who believe that, and I think it's bullshit. And I called one of the... Can there be two different types? Yeah, I'm sure there can. I called one of the major stuttering

institutes to try to be of help, and I got the guy on the phone, probably because I said it's- It's Gurian again. I said it's Dr. Gurian. I said, I use that when I have to. I said, it's Dr. Gurian. And the guy gets on the phone

and I tell him the whole story. And he had the nerve to say to me, nobody's ever been cured of stuttering. And I said, that's, I'm really, I'm like horrified to hear that. I said, because first of all, that would make me like a pathological liar that I would have to make horrified to hear that. I said, because first of all, that would make me like a pathological liar that I would have to make up a story like that.

Do you hear me stuttering? And he said, no, I don't. And I said, well, it's possible. And the spiritual outlook is that if one person could do something, other people can do it too. I didn't do fucking magic. It feels like magic.

It gave me a freedom that I didn't have before. But if I did it other people can do it so John Stossel you know John Stossel yeah I know he's supposedly a stutterer he's a

and I spoke with him and he yeah he he says he still is a stutterer he's just learned to control

to control it right which is different than what you're saying you're saying you don't you're not controlling it. It's not in you anymore.

I could stutter tomorrow. I refuse to let myself. I still get triggers. You still get triggers. Okay, so you're saying the same thing. You're saying it's like an alcoholic that hasn't drunk in 30 years but still technically an alcoholic. They consider themselves alcoholics or drug addicts.

You're supposed to still say that, that you're not cured. You're always working on a cure. I don't like to say that I'm a stutterer. It's not part of my identity anymore, but I talk about it because it's very important to me. And it's one of my major accomplishments in my life that I was able to work that hard to control my mind enough that I could let that go. So your experience is the term psychosomatic, the term that is largely related to the way we feel. I guess it would fall into that. You can create all kinds of stuff for yourself. But psychosomatic illness is real.

If people have psychosomatic pain, they really feel pain. Like there are people who've lost limbs who still have pain in that limb, and that pain is real. But I've also understood psychosomatic as you inducing the ailment as opposed to the reverse. Well, you can create the ailment as opposed to the reverse well you can create the ailment yes and it's based on thought yes everything everything that we have is is it's based on thought it's really amazing how powerful thought is are you familiar with with this

statement about fear could i read this little thing please do i carry it with me all the time and i'm not familiar with this i think it'll resonate with you, okay? Well, with me. Well, I could tell. Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? Your playing small doesn't serve the world.

There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that others won't feel insecure around you. We were born to manifest the glory within us. It's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. Damn. Who said that? Well, it's interesting. It's a quote from Marianne Williamson's book. Is it really her? I was going to say, it sounds like a debate last night.

A Course in Miracles. She teaches that. Well, fear of success is a very, very real thing. And it's very close to fear of failure. And we see it in a lot of stand-up comedians that fall apart, or musicians or whomever, that fall apart when they succeed for various reasons. Well, that's not always grounded in fear.

Sometimes it's an addictive inclination that was generated by that journey. But there is such a thing as fear of success, so that is a real thing. I don't think I'm sure. Fear of anything. Can somebody encapsulate what that statement meant? Yes. It's like Brene Brown's shame lectures in a sense, right? What it's saying is that it's okay to be successful.

That you don't have to hold yourself back. If you become a superstar, if you're meant to be a superstar, you'll become an inspiration to other people. You don't have to hold yourself back to make other people feel better about themselves. Trump is the healthy one? You're a really funny comedian.

If you're into humor. Well, as both of you are. But your success is an inspiration to comedians who are aspiring to do what you do. You see that, Dan? Take it in. No. I see Dan going to a negative place. I see it in his eyes.

Thank you. But as far as fear of success is concerned, I have experienced that in my own life where I felt uneasy with victories. And I feel most comfortable like kind of second or third place. Being in the middle, right? It's very hard to picture yourself at the top. And fame is a very heavy drug. And I think that's why you see so many very famous people really fucked up. Because I don't know that many people can really handle true superstar fame.

But I didn't experience any of that as about fame or not fame. I experienced that, that spiritual, you know, that passage, that the idea that the shame that we have within us will prevent us from being our better selves and experiencing our own potential. I think everybody's got a superstar in themselves. It's utter bullshit. But I do believe that the overall message is that don't make yourself smaller than you need to be. Yes, exactly. It's not about being a superstar. I use that as an example just because we're in the comedy world and we're talking about, you know, in show business, people seek fame.

What this means is it's okay to be successful at whatever it is that you do. That's right. You don't have to worry that you're going to make other people feel bad about themselves. When I used to make believe I didn't know the answer, it was so that the other kids could say the answer that they would know and I wouldn't know. I held myself back, which is perfect for a stutterer. That's what they do. It's like if you have something important to tell somebody and I say, hey, Dove, I got

something to tell you. And you say, what? And I start choking myself. It makes no sense. It's a stupid you have something important to tell somebody and I say, hey, Dove, I got something to tell you. And you say, what? And I start choking myself. It makes no sense. It's a stupid thing to do. So I try to show stutterers that it doesn't make sense to do that. I once showed up. I was being vulnerable.

I met Dan for lunch in the middle of the day and I just left couples therapy. And Dan said, how was couples therapy? And I began to tell him. I got about one sentence in. He said, I don't need a transcript. I was just asking. Yeah, that's Dan. Yeah. just asking. Yeah, that's Dan. Yeah.

This Dan. Yeah, that's Dan. Well, I don't remember that. But it obviously is a very good line. And it's 100% right. It's not important to me. You wouldn't remember it, but he would never forget it. Right.

But I appreciate that about Dan. And so, yeah. But I thought that was... All right. Go ahead, Dan. Next question. So, but the book does not say was, go ahead. Next question. But the book does not say anything about stuttering on the cover.

So obviously you feel that there's lessons that you've learned about curing your stutter can be applied to all sorts of problems and ailments, correct? Yeah, it's not about stuttering. Okay, so tell us. It's about thinking in a different way. Zoom this out. Give us an example. What are things that people suffer from? Insecurity.

Can I look at the chapters? Premature ejaculation. Premature ejaculation. Erectile dysfunction, of course, is a very prevalent issue. You've been talking to my wife. I have a chapter on creating your own happiness center. A lot of people live in very dark apartments. They don't realize, people don't honor their sensitivity.

Artists in general are very sensitive people. He doesn't listen. Okay, very sensitive people. Comedians, artists, all people who perform are very sensitive. A lot of people don't like to cop to it because they look at it as a form of a weakness when sensitivity is actually a great strength and it would be a nicer world if people were more sensitive to each other which is why i've gotten away from mean-spirited comedy i don't have a lot i wrote for the friars roast for like

12 years i was the main writer i wrote all kinds of shit but i've gotten away from mean-spirited comedy and i went to um a thing in atlanta recently there was an organization aath the association of applied therapeutic humor applied therapeutic therapeutic humor it was 200 health professionals that use humor to help people deal with grief and depression and cancer sounds terribly unfunny but perhaps it doesn't mean it couldn't work well yeah it was very interesting that they use humor because humor release, laughter releases endorphins. It's called dose. These studies are well documented,

by the way. Yes, they're very well documented. You know, the cancer patients have watched, yes. Oxytocin, serotonin. That's right, all of it, yes. There were four chemicals that were released,

but they're not released with mean-spirited humor. I thought that was very interesting. 75% of social science studies can't even be reproduced. I'm trying to go along with the conversation. No, I just found it interesting. I'm trying to be a good sport, which is what this is

ultimately about. I have never been with this group before. I was invited to go. So would you vote for Marianne Williamson? No, absolutely not. I like the concepts, but somebody like that can't run the country. I'm starting to get it now, by the way. You're getting nothing. No, I'm starting to get why Gurians always got a hot young ass around. Oh, so sweet.

Because, you know, these young girls, they love this kind of stuff. That's right. Gurian. Oh, that's true. Gurian. But you know what? It's real. It's real.

Well, all the better. That's how he gets the tail. All the better. If he didn't believe it, they wouldn't become. They wouldn't fuck. It's part of dealing with who we are as people. That is good. That is so good.

A lot of guys don't want to deal with sensitivity. You know, your sexual repression, you need to release that. Oh, such a release. Is that your line? No, I'm just imagining you with a young lady. Yes, yes. You know, you're too wrapped up in this. You're tight as a drum, honey.

I mean, I think it's damaging your self-esteem. You've got to let it out. It's funny. That's what Patrice O'Neill used to say. He goes, I think it's damaging your self-esteem. You gotta let it out. It's funny. That's what Patrice O'Neill used to say. He goes, Jeffrey, when you talk, magical butterflies appear. Oh, yes. I used to be his co-host on The Black Phillip Show. I don't know if you know that.

It was me and Dante Nero and Patrice. Yes, a young tale. Beige Phillips. Isn't it beige Phillips? No, that's Dante's. It's not important. We're talking tale. The original podcast was The Black Phillip Show.

Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was on XM before they joined the series. They come to Gurion like these guys. The debate. Did you watch the debate, Jeffrey? Well, but I just wanted to quickly follow up on whether Jeff is with a young lady currently in his life. He's never not with a young lady. Not a particular one, but I was with someone really nice last night.

How old? Whoa. I never ask. I swear to God, I never ask. Well, because it's illegal of you to ask and find out. My father always said, never ask a question you don't want an answer to. No, I would guess around 35. Around 35?

I think so, yeah. That's all right. I think 35 is okay for a man your age. Above 18, Congress says is okay from what I hear. I don't know. I don't like young, young girls. No, of course not. Who does? I like women who does. Yeah, right. Exactly. But

I do think that these kind of things are important to talk about. Yes, they are. And a lot of guys don't like to talk about shit like that. Yes, and that guy's name is Dan Natterman. He's right here. We gotta get into it. But there's a part of Dan Natterman... You gotta let the spirit out. I have trouble understanding it like you guys

talk and you seem to all understand what you're saying to each other what do you have no fucking idea what you what do you lost i've never felt afraid to get the answer right because i thought yeah but you're but no um you see well i'm with noam in that regard that's not what i'm here but i have but i know i wouldn't think other people did that but i have met other people who understood that but but i have met other people who understood that. But I have. When I talk about myself, when I work with people, I talk about my own life.

I open up. When you go to a therapist, most of the time, a lot of them never say anything about themselves. They let you do all the talking. In general, yeah. No, and with all due respect, there's a reason you didn't, I think, that you became more of a businessman.

That musicianship is your avocation, your true love, and you're very, very good at it. But you're mostly a businessman. Because you're not as fucked up as we are. As the full-on, full-time show business people. Well, perhaps that is the case, or it's not. But that isn't really apropos as far as Noam's comment. No, but Noam is saying

that he never experienced feeling bad about knowing the right answer, because Noam's well-adjusted. Yes, oh, I see what you're saying. Well, there's a balance. I've got my issues, too. I'm just saying,

there's a balance. If you're in business, that's left brain. If you're creative, that's right brain. But Noam is both, and I have a little bit of both. I had to be both

because of my other field. I used to be a dentist, even though it was a nasty rumor, it's the truth. And you know when that rumor started, right? How's it a rumor? The day I graduated from dental school. And it never stopped. No, but it's true.

So I had to be very left-brained in order to run a practice and do that stuff. But the other part is very right-brained. And so I had to create a balance. So I had to learn to own my sensitivity as a strength and not as a weakness, because for many years I looked at it as a weakness. Well, and growing up in an environment that I did,

it is a weakness. And so then you have to learn to- Well, you have to eliminate people from your life who treat it as a weakness, because people take kindness for weakness. Well, in certain environments, they do especially. I mean, it's less the case in certain demographics. Yeah, yeah.

Where did you grow up? In a working class area of Jersey. You didn't want to be. You didn't want to show. So, Jeffrey, so obviously you do a lot of armchair analysis of people. How do you explain our president? What's your take on him? Oh, I don't do politics.

No, no, his personality. Well, you know what? I met him several times. And I remember when he was roasted by the Friars Club and he came over to me and he said to me- I think I was at that roast, yeah. Yeah, it was a crazy roast. I think I wrote for that roast.

And he said to me, Jeff, you think I could handle this? And I said, if anybody could handle this, you could handle this and i said if anybody could handle this you could handle it and it was there there were a there were a couple of times i think it's just the when i was in his presence i have this thing that i like to do to very rich men i walk up to them and i palm them a buck like you would tip a guy like a valet you know and i thank them i thank them for coming to their home or whatever and i say i just on my way out i put a dollar in there nothing awkward about that and i watched

the confusion on their face i'm confused i just say thank you so much for having me and i put a dollar in their head yeah and i was gonna do that i was gonna do that to trump and his son was there and i happen to know his son and i said which to him- Which son, Don Jr.? Don Jr. And I said to him, I'm going to do this. And he said, I don't think you should. Yeah. And I said, why not? He goes, I don't think he'll think it's funny.

And so I didn't do it. Don Jr. was right. But I was on my way to do it. I really wanted to do it. You should have done it. I needed to do it. You didn't face your fears. I didn't face my fears.

Yeah, I didn't face my fears. But I had met Don because he's a very, Don Jr. is very philanthropic. And he was working with this charity that brought plastic surgery to impoverished children all over the world. Don Jr.? Yeah, he and his wife. Not fake tits. No. It was for class. Nobody should have tits anywhere in the world. It was for Clef.

Nobody should have tits anywhere in the world. It was for Clef palates and Clef lips. And he and his wife were ambassadors to that. And because I was connected to NYU,

I went to this charity thing and they raised a lot of money to help poor kids all over the world. How much of that is PR and how much of it do you think their heart is deeply in the cause? I think they really believe it good i really do i

want to believe that i think they really believe it because there's a lot of causes that you could at least they can do they did a lot of work for that organization they raised a lot of money and when i wrote about it he thanked me he said to me thank you you're the first person that ever wrote about me without writing something nasty. Oh, wow. And I'm like, I don't do that. If I, if I, look, I've been covering the comedy scene too for 20 years. I don't write nasty shit about people. If I don't like what you did, I don't write about it.

I respect everybody that goes on stage. It's very hard to fucking go on stage and perform for people. So everybody to me is very courageous for going up and doing it. And if they do a good show, I want to support them. And if they don't have a good show, I'm not going to write about it. I want to drive them out. Oh, you do?

No, no, I'm kidding. I don't want to drive them out. I see a lot of shit that I could write about, but I don't do that to get scoops. I've never done that. When Jerry Seinfeld was doing his special, he asked me to keep it a secret where he was doing it. And I kept it a secret for two months.

I could have written about it, but I didn't because those things are not important to me to just do something like that to get attention. Break your kneecaps, Jerry Seinfeld. That's right. Well, he wouldn't have done that, but he could have ruined you, or at least in show business.

But if somebody says, hey, do me a favor, don't say anything to anybody, I'd be an awful dick if i went out and just told saying is respectful god bless so so i think it's important to support other people in the field i think but we don't want to be too supportive because we end up in a culture where everybody is is got a what what was the um i forget the analogy i mean i think it leads to a kind of cultural narcissism. I think all of this sort of the approbation that isn't. Merited. That isn't not only non-merited, but the way people treat children.

I mean, listen, I don't want to go into material, but I've been writing a bunch about this. How do you mean? Well, there's something about cultural narcissism, social media, and reality TV. There is a kind of universality of a lack of self-awareness. And sometimes we need to be able to say things to people that

can be critical. If you say it in a constructive way, somebody actually wrote an article that all celebrity stuff recently is all bullshitted. They're all puff pieces. That there are no more journalists anymore who are looking at people in an objective way. Right.

But see, I hate critics. Critics most of the time do not like film critics. You're criticizing the critics. Go ahead, go ahead. I am criticizing them. I hate critics. Let me tell you what's wrong with them.

It's a very strange thing to do for a living to criticize people. Jeffrey, your next book is called Inverted Paradox. No, but isn't it

a strange thing to do to criticize people? That's your living? You criticize people's performances? You go to movies sometimes. Critics often

praise. George Bernard Shaw was a wonderful critic. No, they often praise but they could also ruin a movie or a play if they want to write something bad about it, they have a lot of power. Yes.

Especially a play. There's something strange about that to me, where you criticize. Well, I don't listen to them anyway. But I need to know if I should buy a ticket to whatever. No, but look. The book or the show. You probably always have good sets, but if you've ever had a bad set, would you want someone to write about it?

Yeah, but Doug just made a very good point. A movie comes out, and you want to know whether you should waste your evening going to see it or not. Yeah, but their opinion may not be your opinion. Right, but it's very likely. I know what I like.

Have you ever seen a movie that you like that got bad reviews? Yeah, I have. Not often. I know what I like. Yeah, sometimes they let me down, but there is a correlation between a movie that gets rave reviews, like The Godfather, and it usually turns out to be pretty good.

Yeah, yeah. If it gets rave reviews, you know you're going to see it. But sometimes I'll see something that has a bad review, but there's somebody in it I want to see. I'll go see it anyway. And I'll make my own judgment. I'm not going to let somebody else. Or your friends that you know. I generally don't listen to critics. I used to watch Siskel

and Ebert because I enjoyed seeing the clips and the summaries of the movie. But that's your personal experience. That's not an anti-critic argument. No, but I'm saying for me, the best way to know if I want to see a movie or not is twofold. Number one, friends of mine that tell me to see the movie have my own sense when I read the synopsis. Is this movie about drug trade? I'm in. I like those kinds of movies.

Right, exactly. Invalidate critique. Is it a superhero movie? Let Keith Robinson go see it because I ain't going. When I was a kid, it's very difficult for kids. Like Max, you're probably too young.

Max is not even listening. Max is just so we know. He's a friend of Noam's that's staying in the apartment. But when we were kids, which doesn't seem like that long ago. And yet it was. And that's a crazy thing too.

The ability to hear a particular piece of music. Yeah. It was quite a challenge. So. In what regard? Because you couldn't, there was no streaming.

Oh, right. Of course. Yes. There was a local record shop that may or may not have it. Records were expensive. That's right. You could hope to tune on.

You have to buy vinyl. Tune in on the radio. On the radio. And maybe they'd play it. Right. So, music critics like to a kid like me were very important

like Rolling Stone would have the albums that came out that I guess it was bi-weekly Rolling Stone in those two weeks and I would risk my money on a lot of albums that were well reviewed anyway like it was now

it's quite different now because it's very easy to sample for yourself in a way. It's a different world. Books are the same thing. It's a different world now. It's a different world now.

You don't really need the critic anymore. No, you could just go online and you can see samples of books. There's a synopsis of a book.

This book, there's pages that you could read to get a sample of. Everything. Music, you could listen to the song before you buy it.

Or not buy it at all never buy it listen to it 30 times until you're sick of it exactly I mean I would read about some Beatles song and it's the Beatles

and I was like I'd read it I'd never heard it like I could never I want to hear this song someday that they write about how I mean

I've always been skeptical of song critics because music to me is not something you can articulate you either like the song or you don't I mean I'm not I'm not a musician of song critics because music to me is not something you can articulate. You either like the song

or you don't. I mean, I'm not a musician. So I can't talk about arousing chorus. If I tell you she gives a great blowjob. Yes.

Yes. You think that's unlikely? What the hell are you talking about? What I'm saying is music... We're not saying we'll get security in here.

We're not a blowjob. I'm saying it'll probably affect us. Music critic. Same way. We're not a blowjob. I'm saying it'll probably affect us. Music critic. Same way. Who's criticizing blowjobs? I'm saying music critics write these long paragraphs

about soaring these notes and key changes and shit that I don't even understand anyway. I know a good song when I hear it. Those are people who really don't care about looking smart.

Like they really show off sometimes with that stuff. Did you see the Scorsese documentary with Fran Lebowitz? Just tell me what the good songs are. And usually I'll buy, in the old days,

I went to the register because I heard the song on the radio or my roommate had the song. Okay, can we go to Dan's talking points? Of course. Well, if you find any

talking points that you think are good, don't just humor me. Dan wants to talk about Ronald Reagan. Tell me there's context. Tell me you've got some context. It just came out that Ronald Reagan Tell me there's context Tell me you've got some context It just came out That Ronald Reagan

In a recorded conversation With Richard Nixon Max Richard Nixon Was president In the late 60s And early 70s He was president When I was born

Apparently there was Something that went on At the UN And it was some vote About something To do with America And The delegation from Tanzania, we had to get their approval

and then they began to do a dance in the General Assembly, I guess. And Reagan said to Nixon that it killed him that he had to get the opinion of these monkeys in order to, and he used the word monkeys.

And this is very upsetting, obviously, for many reasons. But the questions which come to mind are, as always. Is dancing allowed in the general assembly? Well, you know, a sports announcer said something like, they're running across the floor like spider monkeys And I understand why people were offended But I also understand why in a moment In a quick unguarded moment

I call my kid a little monkey all the time Because he looks like a little monkey I think it's pretty clear He meant it as monkeys And then you just And apparently somebody else said that Harry Truman also had written letters where he talked about

Coons and this and that um Einstein talked about the Chinese as lacking in something and lacking in a kind of there was a piece

in the Times about it where he wrote in his journals about so in Atlantic in the article it also said why is it MSG they're lacking it also said

I was going to say duck sauce but MSG is better it also said just to give you the whole picture it also said, I was going to say duck sauce, but MSG is better. It also said, just to give you the whole picture, it also said that it's the only

recorded example in Reagan's entire history of saying anything racial like that, including in his personal diaries. So that's on one hand. On the other hand,

he said it. On the other hand, Jesse Jackson called Jews hymies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're just like, what does it say? And Al Sharpton. It doesn't say anything.

Today, Al Sharpton is being lauded by all the Democratic candidates. You can't pull one piece. And he talked about Jewish diamond. Oh, he said so many things about Jews. There was a thing in the Post the other day. All the things he said about Jews. But I disapprove of Sharpton. And so, I mean, and I, you know,

Reagan was- Sharpton has a history. My father never said anything like that. And he was born not that long after Reagan. We look at Reagan's born like 1911 or something. Yeah, born 20 years after Reagan. Your father was born in 21. 20 years. I remember my father was 30.

You said one relatively racist thing over the course of 20 years, and you've been on tape every day of that span of time. It's hard to develop a felony indictment against somebody. So all I can do to try to make sense of that is to imagine if it had turned out that Reagan had said something about the Jews. Yes. And I think it wouldn't bother me all that much. I would say, oh, it's a guy from the 1930s

who grew up wherever he was, and he had some latent attitudes that he grew up with about Jews. Who was the president who didn't let that whole ship full of Jews into the country? That was Roosevelt. Roosevelt, FDR. Yeah.

That scumbag. I think you have to look at the totality of somebody. That's exactly what I just said, the totality. You got to look at the totality. 900 people were on exactly what I just said, the totality. You've got to look at the totality. 900 people were on that ship. 900 people were on that ship that he turned away. Listen, if somebody were a genuine racist over the course of 20 or 30 years on camera, something else would pop up.

Right, you would have heard more about it. It's about the totality of somebody. Martin Luther King said, judge me by the content of my character. And if you have some deep-seated hatred for people over the course of 30 years, it's going to fall out here or there. If all you got is one thing on record, Dan said it best, the totality. Well, I think it's even more complicated than that, which is that people can be both. We're all both on some level. We're all both on some level. We're tribal animals. When I'm in Bed-Stuy and they're marching along and saying, keep gentrification out,

you can feel an anti-white sentiment. And nobody wants their neighborhood to become another neighborhood. It's the nature of the human animal. It doesn't mean that we won't accept it and ultimately melt into some sort of more unified experience. It does mean that as a tribal being, we sense danger when you see people coming down the road that look very differently from the way you do. Not the Chinese.

I'm cool as a cucumber when they come down the road. Monkeys are particularly harsh. Well, monkeys are racists. You're getting into this in particular and I'm saying that if your point is that the totality of the amount of time that man spent both on Camera and having his voice tape if one thing fell out of the course of 30 years. We can't indict somebody's character

I'm not saying that you don't bring it up if he were alive now. Maybe you say what the fuck were you talking about? Were they African people that he made them from Africa? No, no, they were from Sweden. They were delegation from Sweden. No, no, no. The reason I ask is because some American people made a distinction between African African people and black people from America. No, no, you're absolutely right. And I think that's certainly not right

to say that about anybody, but I'm saying, but because they were African, and in those days, we were exposed to films of African people dancing, tribal dancing, that you don't see in this country.

You're right. That was what he was alluding to because he even made a remark about these, they're not even used to wearing shoes yet. Like, he was resenting, I mean, I'm putting it

from what I believe was behind his eyes. His thinking. That these kind of primitive, if that's the word, that he would use, dancing in the halls of the thing, just a few years from civilization to wearing shoes, that we have to cater to them in some way. That we have to honor their opinion.

I don't know him and I wouldn't stick up for him. You don't need to call them monkeys. Nobody's arguing that you should. We're arguing that you don't indict the man's character over the course of a lifetime. And I don't think he would have said it about American blacks. I think he probably said it of course wrongly,

but probably because they were from Africa. You know, the thing is, the question in my mind is that so few people don't have somebody that they are close to or care about who they've heard say something inappropriate. And are people capable of being generous to people they don't know and forgiving these things in the same way they have no problem doing to the people around them their grandparents their uncle their friend or friend come on you're gonna be playing a game of cultural gotcha and it's not gonna get you anywhere there's no nuance

in a game a theme you bring up a lot is that people seem many people or most people seem willing to forgive say a guy that drove drunk or a guy that hit his wife or or other transgressions more so than they might forgive a racial slur yeah and i know that's something you brought up and we've discussed and i can is is a racial slur the worst crime imaginable and is it unforgivable not well you know call you say what in the comedy world one of the beautiful things about the comedy world is that it's so inclusive. Very often, I'm the only white guy in a group. When I was on the Black Phillip show,

I was the only white guy on the show. And I'm very comfortable there. And people notice that for some reason. It's just easy for me. And I don't... I look at the comedy community as an example of what the world could be. Black and white comics are always hugging each other

and they get along so well. And I don't see, well, I don't know, really? See, I don't see that tension. I don't see it. There's no tension. I don't see it, if there is. I don't see it. Certain people do run the light more than others.

It looks really, it looks genuine to me. Yeah, sure. I can say that growing up in the Bronx, I didn't hear any racial slurs. I never heard anything in my family. Maybe I didn't listen, but I didn't hear. My parents never said anything like that. Well, I grew up in a working class community

where lots of people spoke like that. I mean, that was the culture. And so, you know, there was no escaping that. In that Dershowitz article that came out in the New Yorker this week, where they tried to smear him with the- Pedophilia? I shouldn't say smear him because I don't know what happened. But one of the paragraphs, he came out of Yale.

He was editor of the Yale Law Review. Dershowitz was? Yeah. He applied, I think it said, to 25 Wall Street law firms and got rejected from every single one. Yeah, because he was a Jew. Because he was Jewish. Yeah, obviously.

So what's fascinating about that, like all these firms still exist. Yeah. There's no movement now Of course not. to call these firms to account for what they did. It's like, we understand

that was a different world. And it's very, and that's kind of the world that Reagan's making his remark and that all kinds of things that we try now to judge were occurring in a world which is just drastically, we live in a world now where we wouldn't even allow all the family on the air. Right?

That's exactly right. Like think about what we, there's shows that were on 15 years ago. Would you look at them like, you could never get away with that today. Watch the Tonight Show 20 years ago. But yet antisemitism is growing and people shrug it off.

They don't think much about it. Well, because Jews are successful. Yeah, exactly. To me, it's usually jealousy. Well, there's the, you know, where antisemitism comes from, but also we all accept being more derogatory as it relates to successful groups. Anybody can make fun of WASPs,

and nobody will hold you accountable. And nobody makes more fun of Jews than we do. Precisely. We make fun of ourselves more than anybody else. Because we see the humor. We see the humor in ourselves. We sit downstairs, we talk about black, white stuff all the time. The bubble over Zach's head the entire time has been fucking Jews.

Of course, that's the bubble. Son of a bitch. Son of a bitch. How did I find myself? We're funny people. What did your grandparents say about the Jews at the table, Zach? Come on, you must have heard a thing or two. I never met them, but my dad had some opinionated things.

But they left him a letter saying, don't trust these people. I'm sorry. My dad had some opinionated things. It was always weird. It was like social stuff, like trust kind of stuff, like don't trust them. I'm just being honest. Yeah, of course. This is the kind of stuff he would say.

I feel the same way, by the way. So that's a perfect example. So he says, oh right then you find out that Reagan makes a remark about what an outrage exactly it's a false sense of outrage but if my dad had said I would have been like oh dad

it would have gone from that to that well that's another thing that the outrage community there's a whole segment of the population that cannot wait to be offended. They can't wait to be offended. They cannot wait. They're sitting there just, what can I be offended by today? All day long, they're looking to get offended. Exactly.

Isn't that amazing? 100% right. And it's affecting people I know in the comedy world. Yes. It's crazy. People don't know what to say anymore. The simplest thing. Which is going to lead to a reelection, whether it be of Trump or another strongman.

The nature of disenfranchised people, whether it's culturally or economically, is that you tend to elect a strongman. And there are many precedents for this. And if you don't allow people to have an observation about a race, a culture, a neighborhood, and they have to keep it to themselves because they're afraid that somebody's going to say, gotcha. You're going to inhibit debate and dynamism and ideas. And it's going to drive us further apart, closer together. I'm running in 2027. I have a different prediction. You're wrong. My prediction is right and you know it.

This is what I think is going to happen. I think that the second that the next Republican candidate is palatable. Yes. Not somebody as off-putting as Trump. Yeah, somebody who's not a narcissist. You're going to see, well, someone that vulgar and doesn't call people fat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Make fun of disabled people. All of it. Yes, all of it. Shithole country, all of it. You're going to see a tremendous, tremendously more, a tremendous white flight from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party. Yes, I agree. To the point where it's going to become, the two-party system is going to become basically people of color and ultra-progressive white people.

Right. And white people. And that's a terrible outcome because. Yes. But it's because because this outrage culture let's call it for what it is it's outrage culture with white people there's no outrage culture

well it's white people being offended for black people most of the time there's a lot of outrage in the black community Kevin Hart had a little run in it but for the most part the whole cancel thing there's only one group now which can talk about people's color, people's race, and use it as an insult. And get away with it.

And feel that it's perfectly fine. People high five you, get hired to the best newspapers, and that's if you talk about white people. Now, maybe they're right about white people. That's not even my point. My point is that you can't expect people who are being bashed like that, who have their ethnicity. You know, I'm stuttering. You're more articulately making the point

that I just made. No one chose their genetic. Let me tell you why I'm stuttering. I'm stuttering because I hesitate to use the word ethnicity because white people don't normally even consider them white, their ethnicity. They'll start to. That's right, but they're kind of they will start to, that's right, But they're kind of, they will start to. That's right.

But if you keep bashing somebody's immutable trait and you use that as a stand-in for stupid or horrible or whatever it is, they're not probably going to vote for you. Probably. At some point, you know. Exactly. And right now, Trump is so horrible. He keeps a lot of decent people at bay. They're like, you know what? I know, but I just can't vote for that monster.

But as soon as it's somebody like a John Kasich or Jeb Bush type, like just somebody... Kasich, yeah. Why would any, like, white suburbanite... I'd vote for Kasich this election. They're talking about now about forced busing? Like, really?

And if I don't want to send my kid, imagine, can we just get an event? Listen to Thomas Sowell on YouTube. I've been listening to him on race. Can I just describe? This is how a suburbanite thinks of busing. He's a black economist. I know Thomas Sowell.

He's a black economist. So, busing to me is, they're going to draft my child, literally like, at the point of a gun,'re going to draft my child Literally like At the point of a gun Take the liberty of my child away We don't care that you bought a house in this neighborhood And moved this far away from the school

And we're going to take that Custody of that child Unless you're very wealthy and put them in private school And we're going to bus them Use them as a soldier In our social justice war Fuck off And put them wherever we want going to bust them, use them as a soldier in our social justice war. Fuck off. Right, and put them wherever we want them to go.

Wherever we want them. Fuck off. You have no choice. And even if it works, even if it doesn't give them a worse education, the kid's going to be traveling two and a half hours extra a day and won't have anybody in his class who's in his neighborhood to play. I mean, the arrogance. It's total bullshit. The arrogance. Exactly.

And they're talking about it now. What was so interesting about it that Kamala Harris made this point and the subtext was, no decent person could possibly disagree with me that this is the right thing to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's so frustrating.

Which is bananas. You want to scream at the TV. And every parent in suburbia around the country saying, oh, no fucking way. You're not taking my kids. Look at what Carranza is doing in New York. Richard Carranza, the guy that they want to be fired, who is all about white people are terrible,

that all the classes have to be teaching about white privilege, how bad white privilege is, that white people have to be embarrassed for being white. Nobody chose their genetics. You get what you get. It's all hypothetical. Don't we know it. It's all hypothetical.

Proof of concept is sitting to my left. The spiritual concept is that we choose our parents before we're born to learn lessons we didn't learn in a previous life. You don't believe that stuff. But most of the time, I'm open to any positive thought. Who am I? It's arrogant to say that you know something is true or not true.

That's right. No. As long as it's a positive thought, how do I know if it's true or not? I just asked if you believed it. No. I'm open to it. I don't know that I believe it, but I'm open to examining it, the concept of it. It makes sense. But no one chose their genetics, so you get what you get. You are who you are. I mean, it's crazy. You're right. I've said this a million times on the show, but it's really true that when we're dealing with the whole Louis C.K. thing here, it was striking to me how many people brought up the fact that I was white and not people of color, white people. Yes, because white people are offended for every other race.

They take it upon themselves because they feel so guilty for things that they were never involved in, that they take it upon themselves. I was at Skankfest when Louis showed up unexpectedly. You should have seen the applause. I thought the walls were coming down. Well, especially at Skankfest it's a more accepting environment

it's not like he showed up at the U.S. I got wild applause a review of books I should rethink that it was all guys with shaved heads and beards down to here and then the venue wrote that ridiculous apology letter for the fact that Louis C.K. showed up. Did you see that?

No, I didn't see that. It wasn't the skank fest people. It was the people who rented the hall to the skank fest. They apologized? They had to publish it. We had no way of knowing that they were going to allow Louis to be here. As if the guy was a...

Like a terrorist. Like a criminal or something. A serial killer. Let's just stipulate- A serial killer. Let's just stipulate he's shamed. He's publicly shamed. Yes, yes. Since when does someone who's publicly shamed not have a right to show up somewhere? Of course.

Like, he's got to deal with his shame, but he can go- To have the courage to show up somewhere. That's right. It's not easy when you know you're being judged by everybody in the room. And where does it end? The UA movie theater or whatever it has to go. Well, I'm sorry. We didn't know that Louis C. room. And where does it end? The UA movie theater or whatever it has to go. Well, I'm sorry.

We didn't know that Louis C.K. was going to buy a ticket for this movie. We would have never allowed him in our movie theater. Right, we'll shut down the MTA every time. At a restaurant.

We'll apologize if he happens to eat in a restaurant. Exactly. It's craziness, right? Where does it end? Yeah, where does it end? And it's all in the mind because,

and then I'll let you finish. No, no, no. Because I was thinking about this. You know, like when they threw a shoe at George Bush? Yes, yes, I remember. Yeah, and he ducked. And he ducked. But apparently-

Because he was used to ducking shoes. It wasn't his first shoe. He was used to having shoes thrown at him. But apparently in that culture, there's no greater insult- Yes, than a shoe. That's right. And if you- Yes, that's right. If you put your foot like in your father's face, your father will smack you because this is an outrage.

Even worse. He'll have to chop your head off in Iraq. It's a cultural thing. And the reaction is real. Yes. But it's ridiculous. Like it's all in your head. Of course.

All the reactions to everything. It's just like, well, that's our shoe at the face. Yes, of course. That's what my book is about. It's all about thought well, that's our shoe at the face. Yes, of course. That's what my book is about. It's all about thought. We create these thoughts and we believe them. Yes. And you're not going to mitigate it without,

without dynamic debate and open consideration in the press and in, in, you know, in media outlets. And I'm just piggybacking what Noam said, which I started saying is that it's going to create further division if we're not allowed to make observations

about one another without the fear of a group of people saying, gotcha, and then another group of people jumping on board and preventing you from living your life with liberty or in the way that you want to live. I agree with you. So I look at comedy as a healing force it's the only thing

we have there you go again you don't like that it brings everybody together you know who I use as an example Lisa Lampanelli and Russell Peters

they make fun of everybody well now she stopped doing comedy she only wants to be a life coach which is very interesting yes it is but

Lampanelli's a life coach now yes she gave up stand up comedy well she doesn't have to give it up she could also... Lampanelli's a life coach now? Yes. She gave up stand-up comedy. Well, she doesn't have to give it up. She could also coach like Dan Nauman is considering a life coach. She chose to give it up because she didn't want to do mean-spirited comedy anymore. It didn't feel legitimate to her. But is she keeping the money accumulated?

Yes, of course she is. She's got plenty of money. Yeah, for sure. She did very well for herself. And she went through a whole spiritual change. But I was using it as an example that these are people that make fun. They imitate accents. Russell Peters has a multicultural audience.

He imitates every accent. You know that Giannis Papas told me that he got death threats for doing Mr. Panos. And he's Greek. Listen, the people are fucking crazy. And he imitates into this and and give it some sort of the fact that this is still a consideration that is so prevalent in in in you know contemporary um and you know kind of news considerations outlets this is still a part of the conversation that we're not supposed to be able to make honest observations about the

world that we're living in um it's just, it's getting kind of ridiculous. It's ridiculous. You can't even imitate your own accent. There's no argument to continue to behave like this. Absolutely not. Yeah. I mean, all the stuttering jokes I wanted to make, I know I couldn't make them. That's okay.

I stopped. You can do that. Did you, we got to go, But it just reminds me of the hypocrisy That 140 private jets Showing up to this global warming conference Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Global warming Of course

It was under 14 private jets Under 14? Right Like, what is with these people? Oh, by the way And if we talk about it Should we be afraid That we're offending private jet owners?

Exactly Right We're offending celebrities Yes, we're offending private jet owners We're offending private jet owners? Exactly. We're offending celebrities. Yes, we're offending private jet owners. We're offending private jet owners and very rich people. So if you're like a vegan, it's true, and you care about animals. You can't stop. You can't really make a dent in the problem by not eating animals.

But at a principle, you don't eat animals. Yes, of course. If you really care about carbon footprints, you know what? Show some sacrifice. Fly commercial. But don't you know that if there was a plastic straw on one of these private jets.

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. They'd go fucking crazy. They would go crazy. Exactly. Whoever provided it would be fired immediately. They'd be fired. The straws.

That's exactly right. Take away their immediately. They'd be fired. The straws! That's exactly right. Take away their livelihood. Take away their livelihood. Well, as far as, you know, a vegan, they can't make a dent in the problem, but he can make a very big dent in that particular cow that wasn't killed,

or that chicken that wasn't killed. Well, you know who can really make a dent? The creator of, you know, these Impossible Burgers, and then all the stuff they're doing in labs to create, you know, meat without the rest of the animal attached to it. I'm something of a... The difference will continue to be made.

I'm something of a mouthpiece for the private jet industry. In what regard? Because I so much love them. I love aviation. I love airplanes. Well, you're a pilot. I don't care about the private jets.

I'm saying that the... You don't dance a pilot jet? Yeah, go ahead. But the question... He's a pilot, for real. Well, I have a pilot. I haven't done it in many years. You have a pilot's license.

You're a pilot. But more than that, I'm a lover of... Aviation. ...of airplanes. Like Howard Hughes. But my question is, who were these people going... There might have been a very, very good overriding reason that they were going to this conference in private jets.

I mean, that overrode the environmental. It was like Leonardo DiCaprio. He's making a humorous observation, for God's sake. I know. It's a true story. I said, you're making an observation that happens to be humorous about the private jets going to this thing. And Dan's deconstructing it. I'm deconstructing it because sometimes deconstruction is necessary.

They didn't want to fly commercial. There are reasons to take a private jet. There might be legitimate reasons for security. And I drove to Montreal for the first time in 27 years. John McCain flew commercial. And it took so much tension out of my life not to fly.

It was only a six hour drive. It's hard to drive to Davos, Switzerland though. Pardon me? It's hard to drive to Davos, Switzerland though. Pardon me? It's hard to drive to Davos. Now this is my daughter. Yes, sweetheart. Hello?

You're on the air. Milla from Westchester County. You're on the air. Milla from Ardsley. Hello? From Ardsley. All right. She must be butt dialing me.

All right. We got to go. Jeffrey, we're talking about chocolate milk. We have Mila. She's calling again. right, we got to go. Jeffrey, we're talking about chocolate milk. We have Mila. She's calling again. I think you got to make... Don't say a racial slur.

Sweet, I can't hear you. Okay, anything else? Buy Jeffrey's book. I got to go downstairs. Keep it number one on Amazon. That's right, Jeffrey Gurian. Number one in the... Healing your heart by changing your mind. A spiritual and humorous approach to achieving happiness. I gotta go I gotta go downstairs keep it number one on Amazon that's right Jeffrey Gurian number one in the changing your mind

a spiritual and humorous approach to achieving happiness and I have to thank you so much for having this has been so great fun absolutely to be on a show

with intelligent people has something to say it's fun his book is number one person to my left notwithstanding his book is number one in self-help stuttering

that's right always a pleasure having Jeff Gurian the guru, the Svengali, the tamer of young twas. Good night, everybody.

Good night. Good night. Good night.