The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Jessica Kirson, Lynn Koplitz, and Dr. Nancy Segal

Episode Date: August 18, 2017

Lynn Koplitz is a prominent standup comedian who may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar. Her new standup special, "Hormonal Beast," is available on Netflix. Jessica Kirson is a prominent standup comedian who may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar. She may also be heard regularly on "The Howard Stern Show." Dr. Nancy Segal is a Professor of Psychology at California State University, Fullerton, and is the director of the Twin Studies center. She is the author of the new book "Twin Mythconceptions: False Beliefs, Fables, and Facts About Twins."

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, Riotcast.com. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar Show on Sirius XM, Channel 99, Rod Dogg. Also available via podcast on Riotcast.com. This is a very special episode because we have moved this podcast into the 21st century. Joining us via Skype, all the way from Maine, because Noam takes a lot of vacations, is Noam Dorman, and he is coming. He's on a big screen. We're upstairs in the studio.

We're not in the restaurant, so you'll notice there's no sounds of plates and forks because we're in a studio with gnome on the big screen gnome hello from all the way from maine gnome dorman how do you do hey dan i hope you can hear me who are you who are you guests introducing well i'll do that but i wanted to just make it clear that where this is a new thing for us that you're all the way up in maine uh and don't worry the place is running just fine. There's some employee stealing going on. Dan, he's not on the moon. He's in fucking Maine.

Well, but this is a big deal. He's on the screen. This is 21st century shit. We've got with us Jessica Curson. Curson. Depending on... Hi, Noam. Hi, Jessica.

How are you? Who are those Jewish people next to you? Those are friends of mine, Don and Bernie. Are they twins? Are they twins? They're not twins. We're not twins. And also you have, I see Lynn Coplitz.

Lynn is here. Yes, she is. Lynn, of course, a comedy teller regular. And if anybody kills harder than Lynn, I haven't seen him or her. That's true. Yes, but kills very hard. Thank you. And, of course, Dr. Nancy Siegel, our very special guest that no one's been trying to get now for some time, I believe.

Well, Dan, she did our podcast years ago. Nancy Siegel wrote the book Born Together, Raised Apart. Born Together, Reared Apart. Born Together, Reared Apart, right? Almost right. Actually, Dr. Segal, really, the guy right behind you is supposed to send me these things. But I, anyway, so. He's your evil twin, huh?

But I think your book is one of the, and your study is one of the most important things I've ever read. I'm sure you understand how significant it is, but I don't think the world has yet come to grips with just the ramifications and the ripples of the study that you did. But essentially, and I'm going to let her tell about it. She did the definitive study on identical twins separated at birth and then seeing what commonalities they have as adults. Is that correct? That's correct. And these things have enormous implications for who we are and how we got that way. The study was actually conducted over a 20-year period at the University of Minnesota. And I'll tell you, it is such a kick and such a wonderful experience to watch twins get together

and see these amazing similarities from the way they hold their knife to the way they wash their hands and I mean, everything. Dr. Seale, give us a few of the best stories about the oddities that they had in common. Well, I don't call them oddities because you see these things repeated in people who were genetically related and reared apart. But probably our premier pair were Jack and Oscar, raised in Trinidad and raised in Nazi

Germany. And when they got together, they found that they both washed their hands before and after using the toilet. They both hated floral displays in restaurants because it blocked the view of the other person. They thought it was a kick to sneeze loudly in elevators. And they read books from back to front. They gathered rubber bands around their wrists.

Wow. And it's amazing. It's amazing. What are some of the other stories? Well, one of the other pairs are the Fireman twins, Mark and Jerry, that come from just across the river in New Jersey. And these guys were separated until they were 32 years old. And when they met, they discovered they were both volunteer firefighters, but their real jobs were installing chemical fire suppression systems,

and the other one installed burglar alarm systems. They both wore big belt buckles. They both dangled keys from these buckles. And they both drank only Budweiser beer with a pinky finger underneath. Now, you can ask. Those last four things are Jersey things. Those aren't Jersey things. You missed the last one with a pinky finger underneath.

The fact that they were both from New Jersey is not genetic, believe me. But at any rate, you can say, well, maybe it's just coincidence. But it's not. Think about holding that can. Maybe it was the way their hands felt comfortable. Or maybe they were so afraid of spilling that precious liquid that they had to grip the can really tightly. But the important thing that your listeners need to know is that studying weird apart twins gives us a way to think about why we do the things that we do. Why we sit the way we do. Why we

gesture. Why we love the people that we love. Lots and lots of things. You ever have two identical twins meet at like a Last Comic Standing audition? No, we haven't. That's the next project. But I can see it happening. They're raised apart. They both become yuckmeisters.

Why not? It's in the genes. So I also recently read the book by Judith Rich Harris. Is that her name? That's her name. Yeah, who wrote the book about child rearing. I guess I think she cites your work in her book. And there's some other books out, and they all kind of leading us to the conclusion that really we have very little influence on our children and how they turn

out, which is very disconcerting and counterintuitive. Well, it's not really quite that way, Noam. It's more that the genes have a stronger effect than we ever would have gathered, and they affect more behaviors than we ever would have known. But it does not discount the effect of parents on children. Parents have the very important responsibility of being sensitive to their children's talents and tastes and preferences and fears and doing whatever they can to nurture them. That's absolutely important. We in no way downplay the role of parents or rearing. But does Judith Harris agree with that, what you just said?

I think Judith Harris does agree with that in the book she wrote called The Nurture Assumption. Now, what we believe happens is that all of us are born with genetic predispositions, and these predispositions lead us towards certain people, places, and events that we like or things that we're good at doing. But genes are not decisive in that respect. We still choose what we want to do. Divorce is genetically influenced. Identical twins are more likely to do it if one is divorced than fraternal twins.

But the genes don't say, hey, get a divorce. The person makes up that decision. The genetic component is probably difficult personality traits, being stubborn, things of that sort. So it's really a very complex blend of both. And then before I turn it over to you guys, I have one more question, and I want to be sensitive about it because I don't want you to regret coming on this show. I already regret it and by the way we could always we could always cut something out but are you worried about any of your research essentially being weaponized to to become part of an argument for people to

prove very politically incorrect things about the genetic basis of behaviors intelligence and whatnot no I'm not for for two reasons. First of all, in all of my studies, and those of the majority of my colleagues, we studied individual differences within populations. And what happens within populations does not necessarily extend to between populations. Secondly, the finding that genetic influence is more pervasive than we thought, I think, gives people a better understanding and a better sensitivity to why we develop as we do. And finally, in any scientific discipline, there's going to be misuse of findings. I don't care what you're finding.

And I think that we try to describe these findings as much as we possibly can in a responsible and intelligent and correct way but it doesn't matter what it is somebody will misuse it and we try our best to prevent that okay then let's let's head it off at the past because i'm very interested in this to understand is if if iq among uh twins separated at birth i i think you analogize it as is similar in correlation to height is Is that correct? Height is actually stronger in genetics than is intelligence. Yeah. They both have significant genetic components, but height is a somewhat more strongly influenced trait as far as genetics goes. So what could bring that IQ? What difference in life would these twins separated at birth have to have in order to see their IQs diverge?

Okay. So I've recently completed some research in Bogota, Colombia, and that is actually the topic of my next book, a little self-promotion here. Accidental Brothers is coming out next April. Watch out for it. I'm coming back on this Comedy Cellar. Now, having said that, here there were two sets of identical twins born a day apart. One in the very rich city of Bogota with cultural and educational opportunities, and another pair born in a very remote, rural farm town up in the north and one

of the twins up north was very sick when he was born so he had to be brought down to bogota to the better hospital in the process the wrong twin was brought back to the north so they grew up as two sets of separated twins and two sets of unrelated brothers. And when we look at their current abilities and things of that sort, we do find that these extremely different environments can cause divergence in ability. One of my colleagues also, who studies twins raised together, studied twins raised in especially impoverished neighborhoods. And he found that the environmental effect was stronger on intelligence than what you find in ordinary middle-class families. So we're never discounting the effect of the environment, and even though genetics plays

a significant role in our abilities, people can all become better. Everyone can improve, everyone can gain new skills, but everyone cannot be the same. Right. Doctor, I'm stuck on what you said about the nurturing environment being important in the Everyone can improve. Everyone can gain new skills. But everyone cannot be the same. Right. Doctor, I'm stuck on what you said about the nurturing environment being important. Excuse me, who is this guy? I was just thinking the same thing. Noam is on the Skype screen with two guys, one on either side of him.

And I'm not sure who they are. Bernie is a super fan. Okay. And literally, he changed his itinerary just for the chance to ask a question on this show because he loves it so much. God, I'm so flattered. Ask away. And by this other fellow to your left. I was telling Noam before the show, this is a bucket list item for me to be involved in this. So thank you very much for allowing me to be on.

He does have a big head. him for me to be involved in this so thank you very much for allowing me to be on um doctor what i was what i was asking about is you you mentioned the the factor of nurturing of the parents being very important you invite a little kid into the cockpit you don't let him fly the plane would you let him ask this question yeah let him ask the question so what i'm you go doctor thank you doctor so so what i was wondering was in in your original study with the sets, is there some sort of a self-selecting sample that you have where the parents are adopting the children and so they would automatically be in a subset of people who are probably more nurturing by nature rather than, or is there a mix? Do you understand what I'm asking?

I understand what you're asking. And no, this is not a self-selected sample because we're not recruiting. We're not sending out notices of volunteers to step forward. We found our twins in many, many different ways. When there was a reunion in the newspaper or a referral from a colleague or the twins themselves, some of them did contact us. But most of the parents were deceased at this time because these were adult twins, you know, raised apart but not reunited until they were older. So I don't – and let me finish. Hey, let me finish.

Now, when we did our studies, one thing we were very careful to do was to make sure that many aspects of these reared apart sets, like their height, their weight, personalities, all these kinds of things, were similar to ordinary studies of twins raised together. There was nothing aberrant in any way about those rear-to-part twins. Nothing, no red flag that said, aha, it's an unusual sample. This was a really good twin sample. So now what do you want to say? Well, but what I was focusing on was the parents, because if the parents, if they were all, are they all adoptees or are there different ways? No, no, no. Twins raised apart are raised apart for a couple of different reasons. In most cases, they were adopted apart by different families because parents couldn't raise them, didn't have that much money, were emotionally distraught.

A mother died. A mother was single, things like that. But there were, on occasion, some twins who were raised by the mother and father. Another kid was given away because the parents couldn't afford two kids. In fact, this is amazing. In one family where both parents were pretty rich and they could afford to raise two children, they had this idea that they wanted the perfect family. And what was the perfect family? It was two children. So they had a girl. Second pregnancy, identical boys. Uh-uh.

This gets in the way of our perfect family. Gave one away. Oh, my God. Amazing. I get you. Not a Jewish family. That makes sense. No, they were not.

They don't do that. They were not. But at any rate, this just tells you that wouldn't have happened if they'd been a Jewish family. But that just tells you the twins are raised apart for a lot of different reasons. Thank you. OK, doctor, I know we're itching to move on, but now we're talking about genetics. Let's move on to inbreeding. What can we talk? What can we say about the white supremacy marches?

Jessica, I'm sure you've got something to anyone want to vent on the Trump thing right now. I'm glad it's not a twin. No, but can I ask a question to the doctor? Can I ask a question? But it's not a white supremacist question. It's just a regular question. I wanted to know, is it true what they always say, or is it just Hollywood that if one twin has

a bad feeling, the other one knows about it, or whatever? Is that Hollywood? That's so Hollywood. That's so literary device. In my recent book, Twin Myth Conceptions, I address 70 different beliefs about twins, and I rate them as false or true, and that's one of them. All my research, all my readings suggest there was no such thing as twin telepathy, where one twin has an experience or feels bad or feels scared, and the other one does too.

Now, having said that, identical twins do share a very close relationship. They process information the same way. And so they may give the appearance of an ESP-like event, but they're not communicating telepathically at all. And the rear-to-part twins we studied, most of them had no idea they were a twin. So here's my follow-up question. Do you find, doctor, that siblings who, you know, any siblings who are brought apart when they're younger, are they less close or share less things than the twins? Yes. The siblings who are raised apart do share a less close relationship, but the comparison I have is identical twins raised apart and fraternal twins raised apart who genetically speaking are ordinary brothers and sisters. Right. And so I said

to them, you know, how'd you feel when you first met? How do you feel now? Do you feel close? Do you feel like you're familiar? And the identical twins, many more said they felt closer than the fraternal twins. But the most interesting comparison I had was asking the twins to say, how close do you feel to the unrelated siblings you were raised with all your life? After all, they knew them all their life. They knew the twin for a very short time. Yeah, that's interesting. And they felt closer to the twin than to the unrelated child.

The identicals or the fraternals? Both. Oh, both. Both. Remember, fraternal twins share half their genes on average, just like ordinary sibs, whereas unrelated share none. Right? Right. And so what I think is going on is that these twins who are related are perceiving similarities in one another,

and this is kind of triggering feelings of attraction. They perceive that they're both holding their hands the same way or have similar interests or whatever. So I think it's those commonalities that explain a lot of attraction. They perceive that they're both holding their hands the same way or have similar interests or whatever. So I think it's those commonalities that explain a lot of that. Before we get to, I don't know if we're going to get to Charlottesville or not, but before we do so, there's one topic I do wish to address. It might be slightly

touchy, but I have read that, and I'm not saying this to be flip or funny, but I have read that there is a sexual attraction oftentimes between people that are related by blood that are reared apart when they do find each other. It's not touchy at all. It's called genetic sexual attraction. And in fact, there has been information written about that. It's not unusual for a mother who gave away a son

to feel sexually attracted to that. It's a phenomenon that is well known in that literature. And do you want to hear something really fascinating? Okay, I've got the most fascinating story you're going to hear tonight. So we had a set of identical men who were raised apart. Both of them were homosexual.

And when they met, they became each other's lovers. Now, what that suggested to me... Gay lovers. No, no, no, they became each other's lovers. Yikes. Charlottesville. Gay lovers. No, no, no. It's not Charlottesville at all. What that suggested to me is what that suggested to me is that there's such a thing called the incest taboo where people who live together and are related do not

develop a sexual attraction to one another. That's why most brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, I mean rather mothers and sons and fathers and daughters don't have any sex with each other but it may work this way with with gay relatives too yeah you know that that's what it suggested to me now go ahead to Charlottesville well I think I think that you asked no I do think that they are inbreds I do think that maybe they were created like maybe two twins had sex and then had these people that marched.

Do you think that the people that marched in Charlottesville? On both sides, right, Jessica? On both sides, of course. On both sides. And I hate Jews. I think that they were twins that mated and then these people came and just carried torches. If you ask me that question in a court of law, I would say it's conceivable. And I believe it at that.

Conceivable? That's a play on words. You didn't get it. It is. I'm not as smart as she is. He got it. Just so we're clear, because I lived in Virginia for 19 years. Charlottesville, they came from West Virginia to March in Charlottesville, just so we all know.

That's where all the inbreds were from. Not from exactly Charlottesville. I want Norm to the inbreds were from, not from. Yeah. I want Norm to ask this question. Go ahead. They came from Perkins. Exactly. Well, I have been, I must say, I have been, even more so than usual, I have been glued to Facebook because I do find the whole thing fascinating. I find all the arguments and all the people posting.

I'm having fun with it, you know, even as others are horrified. Am I the only one that's enjoying this on some level? I hope so. I hope so. You are. Well, I don't think I am. But, Noam, can you speak to your feelings? Yeah, well, I'm very curious.

Is this fascinating? Yes. No, it's fascinating. I'm very curious. I don hand is this fascinating yes I'm very curious I don't think it's fascinating at all I'm not surprised at all about what happened I think if you had an identical twin

raised apart he'd probably be feeling like you do and you'd be the only two people in the world to feel that way and they would both be hard well I highly doubt

we're the only people to feel that way but anyhow I mean people for the same reason people look at car accidents of course it's fascinating. Of course it's fascinating. It's right. It's like a car accident.

Rubbernecking, you know. It's interesting. And the truth is it's not affecting our lives in any... In any... For most of us. Life will go on. We'll have our lattes tomorrow at Starbucks. We'll go to the gym. No. I don't feel that way at all. I feel like it completely... Well, maybe you never liked latt gym. No. I don't feel that way at all. I feel like it completely... Well, you know, maybe you never liked

lattes, but... No. I don't feel... I feel that it's completely affecting me as a Jewish person, and I am very upset with people in my family that are, like, okay with everything. I don't understand it, but then, like, get upset about other things

that are so fucking stupid. Like, I, this is, I talk about in my act, but it's not to be funny right now. I'm married to a woman. They didn't care that I was marrying a woman. They care that she's not Jewish and the same people support Trump.

Not, not my whole family, but it's like, I don't understand how you can support as a Jewish person or just be okay with it or think it's funny or whatever. What happened? Like that was scary shit. So scary. That was scary shit. as a Jewish person or just be okay with it or think it's funny or whatever what happened like that was scary shit so scary that was scary shit I was just at the Holocaust Museum a month ago in DC and the stuff I saw was so frightening it it it it it affected me so much I can't even tell you and then seeing that the other day was like it and it does affect my life because I'm a lot more down because of it and anxious.

You know, it's way beyond you. Way beyond Trump. It has not. It's not even affected by this. You're you barking at me. Yeah. What's the matter with you that you're not affected by this? How come this doesn't bother you? It doesn't bother. First of all, does it bother you overwhelmingly? You're up there in Maine. You're paddling on Lake Quinnipiaci or whatever's going on up there. I don't think the sky is falling. When Trump was elected, I had a terrible feeling of doom. He's with other Jewish men. He's clearly at a summit meeting of some kind. Obviously, it's affecting you because you're talking about it. That's just Camp David.

That's Gnome's Camp David. When Trump was elected, you remember I said I was very depressed about it, and you kind of mocked me, like, why are you so upset? It's no big deal. And now, of course,

now I'm less upset than I was then because after all these months of Trump in office, I'm like, well, nothing's really changed. The sky hasn't fallen. You know, the meteors have not struck planet Earth. You know, every week it's a new crisis that we forget about the crisis from the previous week. So, you know.

So are we done talking about twins? Can I go now? No, no, no, don't go. Well, no, do you not wish to talk about Charlottesville? Well, I could talk about it, but I think that my expertise is not in that area. Well, nobody's expertise is in that area. We're all flying blind. Oh, wow.

No, I have expertise. Well, Gnomes is a learned man. Before we get that, because on the issue of homosexuality. How do we get? All right. He wants to know if we scissor. That's the next question. If my wife and I scissor.

I assumed you scissor. We don't scissor. I'm too lazy. It's a lot of work to turn around. Oh, God, yeah. Do you rock, paper, scissor? I don't know how this will work with you guys. We hole punch.

We don't scissor. We hole punch. Dr. Siegel, I know. I don't blame you. Dr. Siegel just shook her head. I feel very upset. Only another half an hour. Go ahead.

How, what is the correlation of homosexuality among identical twins? Among males, the genetic influence is about 40%. Wow. Among females, about 20%. So it's low, relatively low. I mean, compared to height. It's lower than we thought because, you see, the first studies were done using twins recruited in gay bars where those twins are more likely to both be similar for that behavior. But with better, more representative samples, the genetic effect is coming down.

So then what do you attribute it to? Either is it psychological, which I know that's very politically incorrect to speculate. Or is it something, the environment in the womb? Like one kid gets slightly different nutrition or something? I think there is something in the womb. Perhaps some hormonal exposure goes on. There's a genetic component. It's a very complex behavior that we're not going to sort out here tonight. But we can say that there's a complex combination of biology, psychology, and the environment.

And the environment is both inside the womb and outside. David Tell in his act, and I don't know that he's an expert in this, but he did speculate that it was letting your kid lick the bowl. That was... I think it's unlikely. I think it's unlikely. You know, that was... Anyway. All I know is my mother has great breasts.

Okay, this might be a stupid question, but, like, when you see people who have, like, a doppelganger, like, someone who looks, like, so much like them, like, for years, people will come up to me and be like, I can't remember what the girl's name was, but apparently I look just like this woman in Florida. Cindy Crawford. No, no, it was, like, some random girl. And she had gotten it too. And then finally a friend stopped me and said, here's her phone number.

You should call her because you really look almost exactly alike. And we weren't related or anything. Did you ever meet her? No, I talked to her on the phone once. Cool. And we weren't related. We didn't know. But I talked to her just because I was like,

my father's been fucking around. Something's happened. That's why I wanted to just just because I was like, my father's been fucking around. Something's happened. That's why I wanted to just find out. But no, we weren't related at all. Well, I'm very interested in doppelgangers. In fact, I have a whole study going on. I wish I'd known you back then. But some people think that identical twins are alike because people treat them alike based on their appearance.

And I don't believe that. I believe it's genetics that evokes similar treatment from these people. But the best way to test that is through these doppelgangers because I could reason that if it's just the way you're treated based on your face,

then doppelgangers should be as alike in personality as identical twins. And they're not. You know what the correlation, Dan, norm is for doppelganger personality? No. Close to zero. No, I personality? No. Close to zero.

No, I'm not Norm. Close to zero. That's okay. You be quiet. He didn't know the name of the book. And I also... It's reared apart and happy together. And I also tested them on self-esteem

and that was also close to zero. Oh, really? Really, that's interesting to me. Yeah, so if you could ever find your doppelganger, you come see me and you'll be in the study. I love it. It's still ongoing. She's somewhere in Florida. Dr. Siegel.

California. Jessica has a child. I have two small children. We're all Jewish. We're hyper concerned about IQ and intelligence. I'm not Jewish and I'm barren. Lynn wants athletic children. Barren. Lynn is – Lynn runs Athletic Children. Barren.

I would like to know. So you talk about the high correlation, but you say cross-population. At some point, that must bring out what are the key environmental factors as parents that we need to keep our eye on in order to have our children have the maximum IQ that their genetics will allow them? Okay, so they need to have the opportunities that they're seeking. If the child shows artistic ability, give them art lessons. If the child shows facility in mathematics or computer programming, just nurture these talents in them. And that'll increase their IQ? Yes, because IQ goes up for many, many different reasons.

And I would also let them sample many things broadly. A child might have a skill in, say, literature or music they may know nothing about. And suddenly, if you give them these opportunities, you don't force it on them, but introduce it, they might discover a talent they never knew they had. The key is for parents to stay sensitive and offer opportunities, you don't force it on them, but introduce it, they might discover a talent they never knew they had. The key is for parents to stay sensitive and offer opportunities. And that's the most important thing. Can I ask a question about... Lynn, let me just say one more follow up and I'm really done. So in these studies, did you not come across a case where one kid got all the nurturing of mathematics that he

needed and another kid, the parents really didn't pay any attention to his math skills, and how much IQ difference emerged? That's a super question, because there was a pair of twins we studied from England, and one of them was raised in a very educationally rich family, and the other, not so much. But the one who was not so much went out and got a library card, and she read a lot, and she did a lot of things.

She created her own environment from what was there, which is something that all of us do. And their IQ points were maybe one or two points apart. And they were reading the same books by the same authors. You know, I heard there was a story, a very similar case, Isaac and Gus Newton. Now, Isaac Newton was encouraged and became the Isaac Newton that we know. And Gus Newton was a layabout. Well, I'll have to talk to his parents.

Was a what? That's so stupid. Wait, Doctor, can I ask another serious question? Yeah, go ahead. I appreciate serious questions around here. And twins raised together. Did you ever find that any of them, what's the statistics on resentment or not liking

one another? Kind of like we have self-hating Jews and self-hating whatever. Was there any of that? No one's ever done a formal study on hating your sibling among twins. But what I can say is that the studies that look at cooperation, competition,

social intimacy, always hire an identical twins and fraternals, whether they're raised apart or raised together. Well, I mean, you look at yourself in the mirror sometimes and you're just so mad at yourself. I can't imagine you have an identical. You're like, you know, get the fuck away from me. You might as well be productive and not hate yourself. It's better to hate your twin in that case.

No, our whole career is based on hating ourselves. But what I will say is that I have come across a couple of cases where twins have not gotten along, but they're so rare that Oprah did a whole show on it. I mean, there were four or five cases where there were just aberrations. But what struck me, though, is even though the twins said, I hate the other one, they were still willing to come on the show together. If they really hated each other, they wouldn't have had any part of it. Yeah. So you've got to take that with a box of salt. All right.

Dr. Siegel, plug your book again and your website so that in case we move on, we don't forget to do that one more time. So my most recent book is Twin Myth Conceptions, False Beliefs, Fables, and Facts About Twins. The book that's coming out next April is Accidental Brothers, Doubly Exchanged Twins, and the Power of Nature and Nurture. And my website is real easy, drnancyseagletwins.org. All right. That's fantastic. Now, I know everybody wants to talk a little bit about Charlottesville. It's one of the major historical events in our lifetimes, really. And I hope you'll stay and talk about it, but you don't have to. We won't be insulted, but I'm sure you have something to offer.

So, Jessica, where do we leave off? You want to know why Dan was fascinated? I actually want to know your opinion. No, I understand because I know Dan very, you know, like I get why Dan feels that way. And I know where he stands. But what is your opinion? Because you haven't said your opinion on it. I'm against it.

Yeah. I knew. I mean, I had a feeling. I had a feeling, but I just wanted to know, like, what you think about it. Because it's very tricky because of free speech. It's a whole thing. It's. Yeah yeah i mean i i am fascinated by it and and i mean the things that go through my mind are first i'm trying to figure out where is trump coming from uh is it a political consideration is he a white supremacist is he and i think that Trump was somehow it's possible was somehow in a sense radicalized

online like an ISIS guy I think that there are certain things I spent the last few days reading like uh what's what's his name Dan the the um the head of the White... Bannon? Richard Spencer? Richard Spencer. And Jason Kessler. I spent the last couple of days reading some articles and essays by them. And, you know, they're very careful. They don't fall into the trap of really giving themselves away too much. They're cagey, but they do talk about certain issues that reverberate well

beyond their white supremacist audience, like wanting to be proud of our European heritage, not wanting to be embarrassed about our past. Trump kind of gave you, we talk about now, are we going to repudiate Thomas Jefferson? Does a diverse society work? Are there examples? They talk about a lot of these things that are so politically incorrect that people who are not, to use Hillary's term, deplorables or, you know, people who have nothing to lose will talk about these things in public. But for the most part, people who have reputations, they just keep this stuff to themselves. But they do, I think, agree with some of this. And they, in their own mind, and I think it's very dangerous, they cut it off from the white supremacy delivery package. In the same way, you know, well, Hitler was really right about the Treaty of Versailles, you know, I mean, and he was right, of course, but it's quite dangerous to start citing Hitler for anything.

And I think that this is where Trump is coming from. I think that that to the extent that what he he doesn't agree with everything they agree with. I don't think I I hope not, but they agree with most of what he stands for. Yeah, they do. And those things, you may think they're racist, but I think some of them are not racist, and I think that's why he can't bring himself to repudiate them. I also think he's ahistorical. I don't want to say he's dumb, but he just doesn't seem to understand that this is off limits. You can't hedge about white supremacists and Nazis and KKK. You just can't do that. And I'll say one more thing.

It was interesting. I brought it up. I sent it to Dan, but Dan didn't answer. But you guys know who Peter Baynard is? No. So Peter Baynard is a real left wing. Used to be editor of the New Republic. He's an anti Zionist, quite left wing. And he wrote an article in The Atlantic. The Atlantic magazine is no conservative outpost. On August 6th, he wrote an article, The Rise of the Violent Left. Antifa's activists say

they are battling burgeoning authoritarianism on the American right. Are they fueling it instead? So on August 6th, it was okay for a left-wing guy to wonder out loud about the rise of the violence on the left. Now, interestingly, this morning, he wrote another article, What Trump Gets Wrong About Antifa. And then amazingly, he writes, if the president is concerned about violence on the left, he can start by fighting white supremacist movements whose growth has fueled its rise.

Like, totally opposed, diametrically opposed kind of takes on the same issue. He changed overnight after there was this thing in Charlottesville. So those are the things I'm thinking about. You know, I don't think Trump can recover from it. I think he crossed a line that respectable people are not going to let him back on that side of the line. In my heart, do I think he hates Jews? It's hard to believe considering his daughter's Orthodox and Jared Kushner and all.

And, you know, it's just hard to believe, you know, that maybe he does. And that's my take with those. When is it ever right for violence? I mean, to drive a car into a crowd of people is unacceptable. Like, where's the risk in coming out against that? Yeah, it's shocking. Also, it's also interesting. It would be his his position would have been made a little bit easier if the right wing organizations had repudiated this violence and if they were outraged. But they don't even seem to be outraged. Outrage.

They're happy about it. They're very happy. Yes. All they've been posting is stuff saying they're glad it happened. I mean, who's who's even said one thing about it not being OK? But listen, I will tell you this. I do think he's right, that Thomas Jefferson is in the crosshairs, and then

it will be George Washington. And, I mean, certainly logically, you can clearly make a difference of General Lee and Jefferson and Washington. Well, college campuses have already started doing that.

They've started taking down the names of past presidents for reasons that are being perceived as politically incorrect. That's right. But the fact is that organizations like this, they seldom declare victory and disband. Once they have stricken Robert E. Lee and whoever else, the Civil War guys, they will turn their sights to the Yankees who had slaves. And once they turn it, they'll turn it. And it is, you know, I don't even, in my own heart, I don't know what's right and wrong, where the right and wrong is. But I do think it's very difficult and dangerous to judge people

outside the time and place that they lived. It's weird to think that Thomas Jefferson may someday go down in history as a horrible man rather than just as a demonstration of his time. I don't know, but I think Trump is, you know, I think he's right that that's the direction this is heading. But this was not the time to bring up that fight. He shouldn't have brought it up as a reaction. He could have brought it up earlier. That's what I think. I don't know if anything I said offends you, but that's really what's going on in my head. It didn't offend me at all. I appreciate your opinion. It doesn't offend me. And I actually

am in the middle on a lot of things, believe it or not. I don't believe it, by the way. Yes, it's true. It's really true. My big thing is that I knew this hate was happening. I knew I've seen, of course, racism for so many years and anti-Semitism and all of it. And I think it's just okay now. There's no hoods. Everyone's out in the open. There's pictures of them. Their face is showing.

People are allowed to spew hate now. And it's very scary. I said this six months ago. Six months ago, I said, this is going to go to the streets i swear to god i call that i said people are gonna start going into the street and fighting each other but it's eight i knew it was gonna get it happening is this new that these guys have been around they've been marching they've been

numerous court cases over the years as to whether or not they have the right to march i i didn't perceive this is anything all that new when I heard there's going to be a march in Charlottesville. And I was sort of wondering why everybody was all agitated about it, because, again, we've had numerous court cases over the years. Do Nazis have the right to march? Usually the courts say, yes, they do, and there's some reasonable restrictions imposed, but they go ahead and they march.

There's almost always some violence at them. This was a particularly horrific situation that happened, but I do think they have the right... I think a lot of people... Why didn't they march when Obama was president? If they were going to march, why didn't they march

when we had a black president? I'm sure there were marches. This particular march was in response to the court ruling that was going to take down that Robert E. Lee stand. Now, this is the Make-A-Wish kid talking? Yeah. This is the Make-A-Wish kid. And they've actually marched.

They've had a regular march now a couple of times. And it's been peaceful. The difference now is that it was uh it was violent how you had the well you had the left show up when they when it became on their radar so the clash really was because there was another side of actively opposing them before that nobody noticed it was a peaceful march and well peaceful as much as it could be but there was no violence at the march and again it was on a particular cause. It was around this particular statue. Well, I'm telling you right now, I see a very big shift and a change.

And I'm telling you from my own personal experience, people are sick and tired of this shit. I'm serious. Something has shifted, and people are fighting now. They're going to go. I'm serious. They're going to go in the street. You're saying who's fighting, the left or the right? The left. The left is done.

They're not being little like, oh, you know, everyone. No, they're getting tough. And it's going to, I'm serious. I'm not saying it to be dramatic or anything. Jessica, in some ways, don't you think, I know you're going to get mad at me. No, I'm not. But in some ways, don't you think it's a bit, because I would say I'm somewhere in the middle of the left and the right. Definitely today I'm not on the right. But don't you think it's a bit of our fault on the left?

Because we didn't vote. We didn't vote in the right guy. Of course I do. I'm enraged with a lot of people. And now we're so angry. We're so angry that we voted in the wrong guy that we want to go find everyone that's going to support him. Of course I'm annoyed about it.

And we want to fucking fight him. I agree with you. I think a lot of people let this happen. And now we're scared because we're like, oh, the Holocaust could happen. Yeah, fucking good. That's what everyone was saying in the first place. That's why we were saying not to vote Trump in the first place. Yeah, I agree with you completely. I don't think

people are angry. I think people are terrified. I think people are scared. And I think that fear causes anger and all kinds of crazy reactions to come out of you. Oddly enough, I feel somehow free. Oh, you're just a fucking nutbag. No, no, I don't feel free.

But I love you. But maybe if I had more of a career, I wouldn't want the world to fall apart. Does anybody think that you can be... Lynn, you're from the south does anybody think that you can be uh attached to uh confederate symbols without uh endorsing the confederate slavery ah good question no good question from maine that's noam dorman i think anything i i mean i just went to germany last year and i i had i was like in a in a antique store and i had to leave because there was Nazi propaganda. And I'm not Jewish.

I found it offended me. It was out right in the front. And I just thought, this could hurt somebody. I mean, the fact that it could hurt someone, that it could scare someone, that someone's great-grandmother could still be alive. It broke my heart. It made me just want to run out of that place so my feeling my answer gnome is that if it can hurt anyone's feelings if it can make

anyone uncomfortable or feel bad and i lived in alabama for a long time and i mean when and when racism apparently was gone i saw it not be gone. Right. That's not the answer. Lynn, I agree with you about that, that even if it doesn't mean that to you, you should recognize what it means to other people, and that ought to be reason enough to not want to fly the flag or whatever it is. What I'm asking is, because I seem to have met people like this. There seems to be some Southern identity and some feeling of connection between them. And they were on the losers of the war,

but it was brother against brother. And we were the brothers that lost. And they look at some of these figures as their forefathers in a way. And maybe it's morally sloppy that they just cut off the fact that they happen to own slaves but I think that sometimes they look at these things as

just things in their past. It was a defining characteristic of the Confederacy I mean it wasn't an and also they had slaves it was No I think they felt very much growing up... No, I think they felt very much... Growing up in the South, I think they feel very much as though,

you know, your good old boys feel as though they're the red-headed stepchild of this country. And they're constantly competing with the North. And it's like, you know what? Well, the last thing I'm going to do is take my damn flag down. If I want it, I'm going to keep it. And if I want to call colored people colored, I'll call them colored. And that's just how they act.

And I mean, I know I have people in my own family who say colored. And it blows my mind. I mean, I have to say to them, it is wrong. You can't say it. Yeah. And they're like, you know what? I'll say what I want. You can't.

Okay. Yeah. Do you explain to them why it's wrong to say that? Yeah. And finally, how i got one of my family members to stop as i said i'm gonna call one of my friends and if he tells you it's okay then i'm okay with it can you be a nazi without hating jews in the modern times no no no okay so it's a defining characteristic of being a naziam is saying, is it possible to have some regard for General Lee? Is it possible to

admire him, admire General Lee, and not be racist? No. I mean, I have a friend who, not a friend, a girl who said to my best friend, Debbie Perlman, who's Jewish, she said to her, she was playing Eva Braun in a play, and she said, you know,

say what you want to say, Hitler was a genius. And I mean, I couldn't even my my mouth. Like you can't say like say evil genius, say maniacal, but just genius. So you're putting him in in the same category as Einstein. Like you can't. There is there is something else I think. Maybe Dr. Siegel knows something about it.

I don't know. But you're touching on a psychological issue. In other words, we take pride, at least Jews, you know, with Einstein. Oh, he was Jewish. There's no reason. It affects you in some chauvinistic way. I think it's also hard to expect people to say, yeah, yeah, we're horrible, we were horrible,

we had to repudiate ourselves, and we have to really do it publicly otherwise. To expect that kind of thing, it's hard for people to say publicly, yeah, we repudiate everything that we were, I repudiate my great-grandfather and my grandfather grandfather and they were all horrible and and I'm gonna tell them it's it's they push back on that just in a natural psychological way and if they're if they're not educated if they're if you know it's it may not be

it may be a lot to expect of everybody. I'm not excusing it. I'm just saying as you repeat it. A Confederate flag, a swastika, they represent, they're symbols that represent in our lifetime great hurt, great pain, horrible, horrible choices. And I'm sorry. There's no reason to have them up anywhere. I completely agree. And I would agree as well. Interesting. no reason to have them up anywhere. I completely agree. And I would agree as well. Interesting, Jim Webb,

you know, who's a liberal, but was he from Georgia or something? He wrote an article like two years ago saying how he thought the Confederate flag was not a racist. So I, you know, to me it always seemed like slavery. Is this new? Because back in the 70s there was a show called The Dukes of Hazzard

and the General Lee was the car and they had the Confederate flag on the roof and nobody batted a night, at least nobody in my town. And you could say, well, you're from a town where nobody batted a night and that doesn't represent anything. Or was there a time when this symbol

wasn't considered as controversial as it is today, as toxic? Yes, I think so. I think things have really changed. I really do. I think because of the Internet, because of everything. And would Bo and Luke have been there today in Charlotte fighting for the statue? Charlotte or Charlottesville?

Charlottesville. Bo and Luke. Well, Dan, you're making a great point about the Dukes of Hazzard. Like, if it's so obvious, where was everybody then? Okay, but here's the thing. The thing about the Dukes of Hazzard, I think we've evolved, so there's no reason to devolve. But if we have to get down, if we're going to talk about Dukes of Hazzard, they're a bunch of idiots. I mean, this show is about a bunch of idiots. Right, but did anybody ever watch it

and think, oh, they must be endorsing slavery? No, everybody watched it and said, these are a bunch of country hillbilly fucks. And that's why I think nobody really opposed it, because it wasn't like they were geniuses. But Bo and Luke were portrayed as the good guys. They were the good guys, but they were still stupid. I don't know. Didn't Leonard Skinner use a Confederate flag or something?

I think so. Yeah, I think so. We've evolved. Why should we devolve? But, all right, but was it, why, were people outraged back then and I just didn't hear about it because there was no Facebook or people, or because people just said, or because black people

said, black Americans said, well, we know our place. They weren't as emboldened as they are today to speak out against what they thought was unjust. And they might have thought it was unjust back then too, but just figured, well, we can't do anything about it. That's it. It was still entertainment thought it was unjust back then too, but just figured, well, we can't do anything about it. That's it.

It was still entertainment and it was still, now we just don't allow for certain things to be entertainment. No. Lynn, how does the Southern black people feel about the Confederate flag? How do they live there? I can't. How do Southern black people feel about the Confederate flag living in the South? I think it's a frightening symbol to most Southern people.

I mean, black people. I do. I think that they back off. If you see someone with a Confederate license plate, I mean, all my friends, comics and stuff on the road, you just, they do nothing. Because it's a symbol of ignorance to them. I mean that. It's a symbol of, ignorant them i mean i mean that it's a symbol of the ignorant people live here i'm not going to go fuck with them okay it's kind of like it would i think most black people would tell you they feel about the confederate flag in the south the way they

would feel about fighting the cops in la do we do we feel the same way about the Japanese who refuse to take down any of their symbols glorifying World War II? What symbols are those? I don't know offhand, but I've read about this issue at times. Every year on the anniversary of the atomic bomb, there's some articles written about Japan, and apparently they're stubborn about certain aspects of that history. What do we think of the Japanese? Are we going to hold them to the same standard?

My grandmother would have. My grandmother would have. My father would have. Absolutely. I think we're far removed, and we aren't as into history, and we don't all know. We're ignorant, unfortunately. But my grandmother absolutely would have.

Well, you know, the Japanese after World War II didn't prosecute their war criminals vigorously. They didn't cooperate. If you remember the movie that Angelina Jolie made called Unbroken, I think it was. Okay, the war criminal in that movie, The Bird. Did anybody see that movie? Yes. The Japanese prisoner, the Japanese guard. I love that movie.

He wasn't, he was free after the war. I think he did a little bit of jail time, but they didn't prosecute him vigorously. They didn't cooperate. The Germans cooperated with the Allies in prosecuting the Nazis. The Japanese didn't cooperate with the Allies in prosecuting their war criminals. And we just said, well, we're going to let it slide because we're trying to have nice relations and in the spirit of reconciliation, we'll let it slide, which I think also went on after

the Civil War. We're like, well, we'll just let it slide because we're trying to move on. I think the Germans are the huge exception to the rule in world history. Very few populations ever will just repudiate themselves and their history. It's not usually done. It should be, but it's not.

Anyway. Hey, let me ask a question to your friend on the couch who asked me about. This one or that one? No, not the Make-A-Wish, the other guy. Hi. This was my bucket list. Okay, you bucket list. So are you a Jewish guy?

I'm a Jewish guy. Can't you tell? No, I can't actually. That's not a politically correct question. But what I'm going to ask you is, you asked if black people would be offended by, you know, how they would feel in the South if they saw the Confederate flag.

And I ask you, if you were in Alabama or South Carolina or somewhere and you saw a swastika on the back of a pickup truck, how would that make you feel? Right, but up here in the north... No, but if you were in the south and you saw it, I'm just asking you as a Jewish American, if you saw it, how would you feel? I would feel very offended. Because it will be next

to the Confederate flag, just so you know. Yeah. No, Lynn, I want to be clear with this point again. Of course you're right. My only question is, when somebody carries a swastika, it seems impossible to me that they mean

anything other than they're endorsing Nazi ideology. When somebody carries, has something Confederate, I suspect that sometimes it's just kind of taking pride in being Southern and they're not, they're not really thinking it through. I hate to tell you this. Oftentimes you see them together in the South. Okay. But I, I just, because I, and I know, listen, I know that this is true in certain situations. I mean, I know it for a fact, but I don't know to what degree that some people view some of these things as cultural and not an endorsement of slavery or bigotry. And I think your point before was really the key one. It doesn't matter.

You should still put it down because you should understand that other people are going to see it differently. The trouble is many people don't understand those things, right? That's right. still put it down because you should understand that other people are going to see it differently. And I agree with that. The trouble is many people don't understand those things, right? That's right. Right. Somebody said to me recently, like, oh, wouldn't you have loved to have been alive in the 20s, the roaring 20s? It was like, wouldn't it have been so much fun?

I'm like, yeah, for me, for a white woman, it would have been, it would have been a great time. I don't know if it would have been for everybody else. It still matters. I believe we should always try to ascertain what's also in a person's heart as we're judging them. And I wonder when I see these Confederate flags, what is in their heart? That matters to me because if they're just ignorantly using a flag what they don't really understand, well, that's different than someone who's saying, yeah, I really think, you know,

we should, blacks should be put in their place. I'll tell you, you want to know the truth? It's the difference between seeing it on a house or on a truck. Yeah. So the house is worse.

No, the house is not worse. If you see it on a house, oftentimes it's old people. Right. Who have pride in the South. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. You see it on a pickup truck, I will show you a redneck hillbilly fuck.

Right. Pro-life stickers. I'll show you lots of other stickers. So if you see it at a rally, if you see it at a rally, it's racist. Possibly. Now what about a statue in the park? What do you mean? If someone is protesting? I mean, like, doesn't want to get rid of the statue? What do we, what do we, what about a statue in the park? What do you mean if someone is protesting? I mean, like doesn't want to get rid of the statue.

What do we what do we what should we take as the meaning of a Robert E. Lee statue or what the resistance of some people, maybe the people who would also have the flag on their house to not wanting that statue taken down? Not because they love the statue, because it's like we have to be ashamed of ourselves now. But shouldn't it be like just a vote that happens within that town or that area? I swear to God, I was just gonna say I don't know why it feels to me like it should go to a town hall meeting.

It should. How much did Robert E. Lee contribute to that area? Why did the statue get erected in the first place? And vote. Just vote. Because I'll tell you something, and I keep thinking this over and over again while we're talking. I do feel, whether anyone thinks this is a right or wrong, that things are going in a certain direction. Meaning, a lot of statues are going to come down.

A lot of flags are going to come down. I'm telling you. I just know it. So, because of what's going on and the majority and what people are feeling. Sorry to start. Right, that's what I'm saying. So, I feel like it's going that way anyway. But when they come down, others are going to go up. But that's what's frightening. What's feel like it's going that way anyway when they come down

others are going to go up but that's what's frightening what's going to go up i don't know yet but something is i mean they're going to take statues down they're going to put something in their place and if there are votes don't you think that people are going to protest anyway they can protest but i think what it is just is what it is meaning it's going to happen either way so like eventually a lot of this stuff is going to go away these stats because the country is getting more politically correct the younger people are incredibly more like more politically correct than any of us and not any of us feel on stage that we need to be more political no i don't care i don't i don't

feel that way at all thank god but it's only because I've been doing stand-up for 20 years. But if I was starting out, I would be much more scared and watch everything I said. I just think we're dinosaurs. I think we're one of the last people alive that doesn't have to be politically correct. Have any of you ever had trouble during your comedian stand-ups? I mean, I think all of us have. Well, you know, to be honest with you, I don't think anything I'm saying is

terribly politically incorrect. If I do say something, I have sensed that when I try to broach a... I did a joke about Trump's Muslim ban, saying it wasn't a Muslim ban because most Muslims can still come in the country. That was the premise of the joke. I forgot the punchline.

But immediately I felt a shift in the room. Don't open with it. And I'm like, all right, this was my opinion of that issue, that whether it was ill-conceived or not, I didn't feel it to be a Muslim ban per se. And I kind of felt a shift in the room. And the joke didn't go over. It might have been a bad joke anyway,

but I don't do it anymore. There's nothing I really say that... Well, my rape joke upsets people. Your rape joke does upset people, but, you know, I mean, I don't know. Do you have any... I mean, my rape joke at the cellar has made people cry. But rape jokes, they are politically incorrect,

but I think there are certain, but you can still get away with them. But it's not really. Especially as a woman. Especially as a woman. Jessica's Asian thing. What's that? The Asian thing is pretty incorrect.

What is? Jessica's Asian. No, I actually purposely. It's like a Mickey Rooney. This is what happens. People can think of it as politically incorrect. I do characters I do I first and foremost make fun of my entire family and my Jewish people and

how a lot of them look miserable when they watch me do stand-up and they're just miserable faces and they judge me I talk about black people I talk about everyone's was not just that and what I say about Asian women is a lot of times they seem very you know like oh she's so scary like when say about Asian women is a lot of times they seem very, you know, like, Oh, she's so scary. Like when I'm on stage, but a lot of times they have much more power and see people, if they really listen to what I'm saying,

I'm doing a character of an Asian woman. But what I'm saying is that she scares the shit out of me and she's a lot more powerful. And I'm the one that's filled with fear. Well, my rape joke makes the rapist, the victim. Yeah.

No one's arguing that these jokes are wrong, but they are touchy and there will be people that get offended. And I don't, that's where I say I'm in the middle as an artist. Like that kind of, as long as it's not mean spirited, I'm okay with it. No, no, I don't agree. I think in this day and age, any white person, just the very act of imitating, and of course you're doing a caricature. Oh, sure i i know people are going to say that is politically incorrect and it will offend some people yep and i'm glad yeah that's not that's what i mean i'm not the most i did it i did a show i did a

voiceover uh for the man in the high castle where it was like was like a pirate radio station from that era, and they wouldn't let me do a fake Japanese accent. It was like me... I don't know. Probably nobody listened to it. We'll let you, Dan. Go ahead. No, it was me pretending to be this guy operating in the neutral

zone of the United States after the Axis powers had won the war, and I'm like a pirate radio DJ, and my job is to satirize the Japanese and the Germans. But they wouldn't let me do a Japanese accent as this fictional character because they thought somebody would be offended by a white person doing a Japanese accent, even though I was pretending to be a DJ from the 1960s making fun of the Japanese.

Yeah, right. Because they felt their listeners would find that politically incorrect. But I was able to make fun of German accents, obviously, because they're white people. Yeah, that's the kind of thing that Richard Spencer would write about. All right, listen, I think we've delivered a heaping helping of the laugh riot that people come to expect on the riot. Well, can I end with a joke that I've been trying to perfect? It never really worked on stage, but apropos, but I think it's good.

I don't know, but the joke was, is a Confederate flag a symbol of hatred or heritage? There's a debate, but we can all agree it's a symbol of I've never seen Les Mis. Now, well, I don't know. I want to get back to my race. I have to say, I really want to say, wait, first, I just want to say that I think the job of a stand, like,

if you're not offending someone, you're not doing the right thing. I really, if you're making, if you're safe, and everyone's okay with everything you're saying doing the right thing. If you're safe and everyone's okay with everything you're saying, I've never laughed at one comic that does that. What about Ryan Hamilton? He's not. He's still edgy in a way. Yes, he is.

Yes, he is. No, he's not. And I say that without being disparaging because most comics are not really. This idea that comics, our job is to push boundaries and to challenge and to say things that nobody else will say is bullshit, I believe, for 99% of comics who are saying really nothing that

everybody else isn't saying. To the extent they're being edgy, they're being edgy in a politically correct way. One exception being, I suppose, our dear friend... Nick DiPaolo. Whose name I blanked on for a second. I don't agree with you.

I mean, not because we're at the end, but I don't agree at all. I mean, I think a lot of New York comics really push it and really say things that are... I mean, it's like it tells, and it tells what the greatest... Is he saying anything, I mean, that's politically incorrect or that is, like, challenging? Of course. He's been brilliant. It's brilliant, but it's about his midget friend that was playing the knife game with a half Indian. Look at the words you just said.

You just said midget, for God's sake. Like, that's not going to offend people? But that's not challenging. It's not challenging. Yes, it is. Most people won't say midget. It's offensive. It's offensive.

A lot of people find it offensive. It is offensive, but most people let midget jokes slide. Oh, my God, Dan. Go ahead. Listen, I got to go. You guys continue. What about Brian Regan, who every comic worships? Is there anything edgy there?

No, I think that people that aren't edgy can be great, too. I'm just saying that I like when people take it to the edge a little. I do. I like it. I like it too, but I don't think most people do it. You guys, let's discuss political speech. You like it when political speech reaches the edge or you want to shut it down?

Make a wish. We were almost out of here and you had to open up. I want to hang out with these guys. I got it. The Make-A-Wish kids are past. They need to eat their dinner. We need to go. I think you guys are having a very interesting conversation. You should probably

keep it going a little bit. We got to go. The twin lady, unfortunately, nobody briefed her and I blame myself, quite frankly. Dr. Siegel. I'm going to think twice about this again. Can we all plug our stuff? Wait, wait.

I would like to give Dr. Siegel a chance to imitate somebody black before we go. I'll do it for you. You're talking to the wrong professor. Come on, Dr. Siegel. Do it, motherfucker. That's not me. That's not me. That's you, Dr. Siegel. No, it's not me. That's you, Dr. Segal.

No, it's not. Thank you very much, Dr. Segal. We'll see you guys later. Why don't we just let everybody... Finish up, Dan. Finish up. I'll finish up. We're finishing up.

I just... Everybody, let them... Can we please just watch on Netflix on August 22nd is Hormonal Beast is my special. Lynn Coplitz has done with no other woman has done before in comedy. She's taken being menopausal and she's fucking taken it head on with no prisoners. And it's a completely different point of view that I've never seen it. Thank you, Dan. So be sure to watch her special on Netflix, was it?

Yes, it's on August 22nd. And Netflix has a video streaming website, is that correct? That's right. And it's on August 22nd is when it's on August 22nd. And Netflix has a video streaming website, is that correct? That's right, and it's on August 22nd, is when it launches. August 22nd. Dr. Siegel, buy her book. Buy two. Buy two, buy as many as you can afford. Tell us the name of it again, the Reared.

The Reared. Born Together, Reared Apart, Twin Mythconceptions, and Accidental Brothers. That's Mythconceptions, not Misconceptions. Mythconceptions. I'm getting that one right away. Jessica Kersen can be seen where? Yeah, so I'm on the Howard Stern Show a lot. If you listen to Howard Stern, I do calls and stuff like that.

And you can go to visit my website, jessicakersen.com. And she has some of the funniest Instagram posts I've ever seen. Thank you so much, Lynn. Thank you. I'm filled with fear. If you're on Instagram and you see Jessica's video... Instagram, that is a photo-sharing website of some sort.

Yes. Jesse Curson on Instagram. There's a micro-blogging website known as Twitter.com that I'm affiliated with. My handle would be at Dan Natterman. That's D-A-N-N-A-T-U-R-M-A-N.

Help me get to those 8,000 followers that I'm closing in on. I love you, Dan. Did you have something to say? I was going to say that, you know, I always worry about

being self-promotional in my field, but I'm never going to worry again. No, you have to do it. Don't you dare. I mean, why do you think we're all here?

And thank you. We're sorry we're so crazy, but we appreciate you. No, it's fine. It's a different world for me. You are so interesting. It spices up the life of an academic. So I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it.

Most of my colleagues don't do this. Yeah, I bet. We do offer our guests free food downstairs at the Olive Tree. I know. I like that. Well, I just wanted a quick snack before the show. Tip tipping is obviously encouraged. We thank you so much.

And we'll see you next time on the Comedy Cellar Show. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. obviously encouraged. We thank you so much. And we'll see you next time on the Comedy Cellar Show. Nice to meet you.