The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Joe DeVito & Mehran Khagani

Episode Date: October 18, 2018

Joe DeVito is a writer and comedian. He has appeared on the Late Late Show and Fox News.  Mehran Khagani is a New York City-based standup comedian. He may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. My name is Noam Dorman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. I'm here, as always, with my very, very good friend, Mr. Daniel Natterman. Hi, Dan. How you doing? Hi, Ben. And we have a guest, Mr. Joe DeVito. Hello. Thanks for having me. He's a writer and comedian.

He has appeared on The Late Late Show and Fox News and on The Tom Shalhoub Show where I met him and he was really good. Mehran, how do you pronounce it? Kagani? Kagani, but sure, yeah. Of course, he didn't give me an intro for you, so. But Mehran has been on this show before.

You know, Stephen, can we talk about Stephen? So he's our producer here. And, you know, there's a thing about over, like, overproducing when you work somewhere and underproducing somewhere. In another universe, like, I might actually get a printout of an intro of each guest, you know, and it would be, like, kind of like, we could dress up and pretend we're on the radio.

Like we could pretend. So I get a text message, and sometimes it has one guest, sometimes it has another guest, sometimes it's long, whatever. So you want to introduce Mehran? Mehran Kagani is a New York City-based stand-up comedian who is of Iranian descent and who frequently performs at the Comedy Cellar. I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

That was succinct. That was so easy for you. How come you couldn't write it down for me? You know, Iran, I recently found out, is nothing more than the Farsi word for Persian. Oh, my God. Is that true? That's right, correct?

No, I mean, we have Pars. Pars is where Persian comes from. And what does Mehran mean? Are you ready for this? Are you ready for this? Are you ready for this? What does it mean? It means likable lips. It means...

Of course it does. It means nice mouth. No, it means... It's actually... It's an old Zoroastrian god name, and it became the word for generous. Later became the word for generous. Aren't I generous?

Well, you are generous with your humor. It means city boy got a pretty mouth? Isn't that what they say? It is. It is city boy got a pretty mouth. We were originally supposed to have a Persian intellectual on today. I was so excited. And it would have been perfect with Lindsey Graham making that thing, but... By the way, no. The comment about... The Lindsey Graham comment

was... We'll talk about it next week when Sir Aubin White comes in. Okay, that's interesting. There was a letter, an email to us from a listener who said she wants to know what's going on with the Las Vegas room, so I figure we could just mention

that briefly. It seems to be going quite well, wouldn't you say, Noam? I'm told that... It's going pretty well. I've heard nothing but good things. And they're increasing it to seven nights a week from five nights a week. Yes, we are. We're going to seven nights a week. And things are going all right. It's not a debacle.

Not a huge hit. Well, it seems like it's not a huge hit, but it's only a few months old. I think it's going very well. Actually, we've been selling out some shows, so maybe it is a hit. I think, you know, given that anytime something opens, like in the way of nightlife or restaurants, like there's usually like two years of padding, isn't there for it to become solvent, for it to become popular? I don't know the answer to that. No?

I know that like the Comedy Cellar downstairs has 115 seats or something. So by that standard, yeah, we're killing it. So, yes, sir. Oh, also, this is Steven. I want to give a shout out to Zuki's Bike Shop in Bushwick. If you need your bike fixed, it's a— I can't believe this is happening. Perfect time to put that in.

Yeah, I agree. Zuki's Bike Shop in Bushwick. They'll take care of you. Someone just got a new bike. If you're going to ride your bike to Las Vegas, Zuki's is the people you want to talk to first. I know what you're thinking when you hear this. Like, I can't believe this podcast is not giving Marin a run for his money.

It's good to see you run a loose ship. Just like... Let's just talk about what's going on in the world. Today is National Pronoun Day. International Pronoun Day. Is it international? Is it least national? Maybe it could be global.

Not every country, not every language has pronouns. Not every country gets a shit. I don't believe that that's true. I think every language does have pronouns. I find it hard to believe if that were not the case. Referring to people by the pronouns they determine for themselves is basic to human dignity. We've really come a long way on the basics. Basic to human dignity.

It is not not being covered in your own soil. Like, you can't soil yourself. You have to eat. And also, you have to be referred to. We first heard this in the Lincoln-Douglas debates. The pronouns are basic to human dignity. Being referred to by the wrong pronouns particularly affects transgender

and gender non-conforming people. Well, you're an expert. You can tell us all about this. Together, we can transform society to celebrate people's multiple intersecting identities. So Mehran, you're a homosexual. I am a big homosexual. Is this National Pronoun Day

just because of the transgender issue, or is National Pronoun Day a long-standing linguistic tradition? It's the first year. Who missed being called E? So it's not National Pronoun Day. International. In so far as

nobody gives a fuck about whose. Is nobody a pronoun? Or the possessive their. T-H-E-I-R. So there's they,

there is a G. But what I'm saying is this Pronoun Day is not focused on pronouns in general, but only the pronouns that pertain to the gender issue. To the gender issue.

That is exactly what this is about. This is about pronoun and gender. This is the question that it kind of brings to mind. Please. Like, is it kind of like, does it bother you? Is it prejudice in some way that you as a gay guy is all of a sudden supposed to care about these other people who have sexual identifications, whatever they are. And we just go, well, you're gay, so that must be your issue too. And do you automatically feel that way?

Or do you feel like, no, I'm a gay guy. He's a heterosexual guy. And that's not my issue. I'm not mad at it. Because I think a lot of what gay guys get, what we catch shit for is for being feminine, right? As in, there is a certain resentment of the feminine. Lesbians

can get a free ride if they're butch enough, make no mistake. You had butch lesbians before you ever had a fag in here, I'm sure. But, uh, and that's almost guaranteed. In the olive tree, I'm not sure I follow you. No, we had the F-words before we had butch lesbians. You had fags

before you had dykes? As performers, you're talking about? Yeah, yeah. I would say so. Or as waiters. Maybe, maybe. Maybe you're right. Maybe you did have fags first just because men.

How does this compare to bros before hoes? What is that? The bros before hoes is an old, it's a longstanding. It's the who's before whom. Can you say who and whom? The bros before hoes idea, this all does somehow tie in. That, you know, gays being in the same sort of boat as transgender people, I think a lot of it had to do with, you know,

fags being feminine and therefore rejected, right? So when we were sort of run out of our schools and our communities, and we were, and I was as a kid, because I was fruity early, like when I ended up at the Boston Alliance of Gay and Lesbian Youth, it was run by a trans person.

How old were you when you did this? 15. 15, I knew real young, 1992. Well, you knew prior to 15. Well, I mean, I'd been beating off to muscle mag since I was nine. Is that too much to reveal? No, no. That I love a muscular man in a banana hammock? I mean, I think one realizes

one's sexual orientation rather early. I remember having a crush on a young lady in kindergarten. I had a crush on a young lady in kindergarten too. That doesn't mean that as soon as I saw a muscle mag, I wasn't like, there it is. What was she wearing? Barrettes in her hair. I remember getting erections when I was too young to understand

why I was getting them. I would watch Star Trek and there'd be this scene with the green alien and it was that music. And I would get an erection and I didn't even know that I was responding to William Shatner. Yes! So you were turned on by overacting

I still am so yeah so I actually don't mind that like you know sort of like transgenders and homos we certainly come from the same sort of

like realm of rejection in terms of heteronormative like heteronormativity like men what does heteronormativity mean? It's like a guy acts like a guy, a girl acts like a girl. They get together, they get married, they make babies. And so it goes on and on.

Normal. Believe it or not, normal. And I'm not afraid to call it normal. I'm not afraid to call it. Go ahead. It is statistically normal. Okay. It is the statistical norm.

And what do you say to people who are offended by that? Like, oh, you're saying that so-and-so is abnormal? Yeah, no, you are, one, you're a deviant, and embrace it or suffer or drown. Well, really, you have to get that. Is being statistically a minority mean you're abnormal?

And the normal use of the term abnormal. I mean, I'm a lefty. Nobody calls us abnormal, but we're statistically a minority. Right. So, no, abnormal is a different thing, and Freud has abnormal, right? So, it's the idea that normalcy is defined by the capacity to love and to work, and to be abnormal is to not be able to do that, to not be able to love or work.

Freud says that? Yes. Well, that's... Freud says a lot. But I'm talking about the way we use the word normal in everyday life has a connotation of not just being lesser in number, but of being somehow weird. Well, and we are weird, don't like we if there's, you know, what, 1600 years of human tradition of people doing things a certain way. And all of a sudden I'm this 15 year old who can't like who won't wash off his theater makeup. That's weird.

Let's get into this. You must have thought about this. We've all thought about this. So I had a conversation with somebody recently. I saw this documentary, The Mask You Wear. Have you seen this? It's a pretty good documentary. It's on Amazon

and iTunes about toxic masculinity and how we're raising boys to essentially not cry and not hug and all kinds of stuff. But they had a lot of experts there talking about how this is all nurture

and not nature. We're raising boys to be this way and this is why they're behaving like that, what they're watching on TV and blah blah blah. Which I don't really... A lot of it is socially reinforced. I'm very skeptical of all that because there's something about what you watch on TV. I'm like, well, the Nazis managed to commit a lot of violence

without any mass media, right? But my question is this. And tell me if this is right or tell me if this is bigotry. Just tell me what I'm thinking. All over the world, there are certain behavior patterns that we associate with homosexual. Whatever, flamboyant. I'm going to let you describe them.

And in most of the world, there are no role models that people are getting this from. Meaning like, you think I'm getting my toxic masculinity from my dad? Well then, why, where are the gay people all over the world getting their behavior patterns from when they don't have a role model?

It's always been powerful women. Or maybe it's in the wiring. It's always been powerful women. It is always men model. You don't, a flamboyant gay guy doesn't act like any woman I've ever seen. Like Marlena Dietrich or Dolly Parton or Madonna. If you go to some, like, Columbia or something. The Amazon rainforest.

Or the Amazon rainforest. Okay. Do you know, I don't even know the answer. Does a gay guy in the Amazon rainforest display many of the same kind of behavior? Do you think you'd be able to tell who the gay guy is and who the gay guy isn't? You know me. I can smell a fag like a wet fart in a hot car.

So you understand my point? I do. There is something seems to be in the wiring, and why couldn't it be? That would be an interesting experiment to go to the Amazon rainforest. There are certainly tribal systems wherein homosexuality is practiced and happens,

and where it's not seen as abnormal, and someone might be run out of the tribe. I've suspected for a while that a lot of what we assume is inborn and a lot of what we assume is from upbringing is kind of political, meaning that we enlightened people, and I believe this is true, say that, well, gay guys are born that way. Whether it's genetic or something in the womb, whatever it is, that it's not a choice.

In terms of appetite. It's not a choice. But if you were to say that a guy being, like, masculine or that male-female gender behaviors are inborn. No, no. That's their upbringing because there's no agenda attached with making sure that was true. Politically, we are happy. It is the answer to much bigotry when you say, listen, how can you be bigoted?

I'm born this way. It's an immutable characteristic. For many years, people, they would bash homosexuals as if you're doing it as a choice. I really appreciate the entire line of questioning, and I invite everyone to jump in on this one, but I personally haven't done...

I think we're almost all born who we are. Go ahead. I'm sure there's a truth to that but also it's like within the framework of what we know and what we experience I don't think that we necessarily have enough data on what children raised by wolves and how they demonstrate gender

you're an intellectual guy and I figured you'd read about this stuff and there's an extent to which I have but I don't think that we have a big enough sample set of people who were raised by wolves where we can study how they communicate and represent gender. I don't think that we have a big enough sample set to describe that. Well, they've seen male and female behavior is not all nurture. They're things that are hardwired into us. They've seen it with lower primates that when they give dolls to monkeys,

the females will nurture them like mothers would with a baby, and the male monkeys will gravitate towards objects because men tend to be more object-focused and women tend to be more nurturing. What they found is when they give the female young chimps objects, they treat them like babies. So if you give them a truck, they'll play with it, they'll cradle it as if it's a baby. So these are things that are wired into us. I do think that on the continuum of sexual attraction,

that you can be an 80% gay person, or however we want to describe that kind of thing. Yeah, the spectrum. So that I think there's definitely people who are mostly straight and a little bit gay who might not even realize it. And they may just go through their life with sort of a vague feeling of dissatisfaction. And they might not even know that they had attraction to other people. So I think it's both. But we've seen you can't cure someone from being gay. I appreciate what you're saying.

I actually super appreciate what was just said, especially about the hardwiring in primates, but also we are evolved, right? We are pretty far gone from our primate roots. Says who? I don't think we're that far. Oh, I think we are. I think especially with kids who are born now, who are born into mega technology.

I don't want to bring up the story you told me about your night at the gay bar last week. That didn't sound like you evolved. That actually did happen last week. You're not even... I haven't been to bring up the story you told me about your night at the gay bar last week. That didn't sound like you evolved. That actually did happen last week. I haven't been to a gay bar in forever. You told me stories. And I hookered up. Oh, no, he's not wrong.

It sounded pretty much like the jungle to me. Yeah. No, no, no. And that happens. That stuff does happen. And it can get animalistic. And I don't know what lesbian bars are like because I like having fun. Yeah, they don't sound fun.

You know what I mean? No. It must be great to be gay or black. You can say anything you want. The dice will come for me. The freedom to say anything you want. Well, years ago, Chris Rock said that the average white person

wouldn't trade places with him and I'm rich. So I don't know that he... I'm not sure that... I think I'm closer to Chris Rock's point of view than your point of view in terms of whether people would... It must be great to be black or great to be gay. I don't know. Listen, I might get so deep.

I'm not saying I want to trade places or that it's okay to trade places or not trade places, but I'm saying that I live with the constant fear of saying the wrong thing. Sure. And much of that is based on my DNA and sexual preference. The same thing,

look, what's her name? Chelsea Handler made fun of Lindsey Graham, called him in the closet. Uh-huh. And yeah, some people say, well, you know,

it's kind of hypocritical, but there was no, like, career jeopardy there or whatever. But if she were like a white male making fun of some Democrat for being in the closet, that would be a national thing. You're making fun of somebody being gay. We don't know that.

It's likely anything that Chelsea Handler says just goes in one ear and out the other. Or Joy Reid being able to say anything she wants. Come on. We know. Well, you've got the hierarchy of victimhood that at the top in America is race. The black woman. I'll tell you. I would say probably now if you were a black transgendered person

who was Muslim, I think then you could probably say whatever you wanted. But I think in line with that hierarchy, you would have to be, I think you'd have to be a male to female transgendered person because I think if you went the other way,

people would argue you were getting in on male privilege. It's not entirely wrong. Also, you all know about the fatwa in Iran where there's no, there are no,

there's no such thing as homosexuals. The what? The fatwa. The fatwa, yeah. Right? Where there are no homosexuals and this is because

during Khomeini's whatever rule over Iran. I didn't know there was a kh in the Khomeini. It's nice, I like that. It's a kh, it's a hard kh. I'm Khomeini, that's my actual I like that. It's a hard ch. I'm Khomeini.

That's my actual... Yeah, it's the same letter. So there was a gay, a trans person who kept petitioning the Ayatollah to let her... It was a man who wanted to become a woman or saw themselves as a woman or is a woman.

What are you supposed to say? The world is a total shit show. On pronoun day. Do you know what I mean? On regional pronoun day. To what extent am I supposed to have to engage in your fantasy? That's neither here nor there. But ultimately kept

petitioning the Ayatollah to let them let her have a sex change, let her become a woman, and they just kept beating her and kicking her out. And then when the homosexual problem came up, they said, okay, so anyone who's gay has to have a sex change or die. What year was this? This is during Khomeini. It might be mid, like early 90s.

In the 70s? No, no, no, no, no. He came in 79. Late 80s, early 90s. Okay. Late 80s, early 90s. So. Late 80s, early 90s. So anyone who's gay has to have a sex change. And then they get veiled.

Or. Sure. Do they have to get the veil then? Sure. Which honestly can be a mercy with a lot of them. I mean. You see what I'm saying? Some of them are minging. So, um, in general though, do you know what I mean? It's an uphill climb to look one thing.

In fact, the uglier the woman, the better they look as a man. I do put that out into the universe. But with men, after a man has hit secondary masculinization, it is putting a football player in a prom dress. And it is what it is. I don't know when they start in Brazil, but I've seen... Great. Oh, my God.

I know they like plastic surgery in Brazil, but I've seen... Great. Oh, my God. I know they like plastic surgery in Brazil, but the trans women... I had a friend who used to, as a joke, would send me a picture of a trans woman and then she'd turn around

and you'd see her penis and she'd be like, ha-ha, gotcha. And I was like, I don't know, I think I'm balanced. The rest of it's pretty good. You're 80-20.

I guess. I guess. Joseph, are you saying that you would be intimate with a trans woman yeah

yeah would you would you titty fuck a trans woman you'd be intimate with a trans woman look I go

I know the rules it's not gay if you're on top and if that's not the rule I have to make some phone calls well so you're saying

you would not I guess... Let me run through this. This is someone who hasn't had the operation. They have a penis. Still got their dingle dingle. If everything else looked legit, I think I'd be all right with that. I'm almost there.

So you meet at a bar. You go on a date. She's dressed... What's all this romantic shit now? I'm just saying... This is the question. I know this is wrong. But when you get into bed

and she takes off all her clothes, you are in bed with a man. Do I know beforehand what I'm getting myself into? So at what point does this just become a mental exercise that this is a trend? Like, she always feels like a woman. So that I understand. But that's not the same thing.

Even when you're blowing her. That's not the same thing as you when she takes off all her clothes and she's just a dude with a dick naked. Well, it's not a dude with a dick. Now you are in bed with a dude with a dick. And now it's your psychology. No, no, it's a woman.

It's a woman. It's a woman. No, there's boobs and makeup and a wig. I would actually... They don't have to have boobs. Now she has a wig. She looked pretty good a don't have to have boobs. She has a wig. She looked pretty good

a minute ago. One could look at this in one of two ways, whether this makes you gay or it makes you so straight and you love women so much that you don't care if they have a penis.

And that's sort of how I look at it. Let him ask. This is what I've heard from gay friends, and this was going back years before transgendered issues were really even being discussed,

that he said, at the time they used the term she-male, which I think is very offensive these days. Yeah, they got real mad when you called them that. But at the time, he said, well, that's because it was called pornography at the time. Which is she-male. Pornography has even changed that. They still use it, I think, in porn.

No, I think they've actually wised up on that. No, and they also, tranny was a big one. Like, granny loves a tranny. Or even RuPaul used to say that. We still say tranny. You think, jeez, I think I'm allowed to be a little bit behind the curve on RuPaul when it comes to these things. You're not wrong. But my gay friend said, that is a thing for straight men.

That is not something gay men are interested in. Because gay men aren't interested in a person who has those attributes of a woman. That's absolutely true. It's not a thing for men who are gay. I've never seen a man dolled up as a lady and been like, gotta hit it. No, I'm here thinking, even with a drag queen, and I've banged drag queens, where I've been like,

I hope you're cute. Then wait a minute, why does Grindr have a specific section for trans women? If they're women, they don't even belong there at all. For straight guys. Straight guys go on there. There are some straight guys who dabble on the way

to admitting they're gay. And I've heard that's a big issue with trans women that they feel like they're being used as someone else's transitional, if you could use that word, way to admitting that

they're actually gay and interested in penis. And straight guys go on those apps for blowjobs all the time. By the way, I've heard of men that enjoy their women strapping a dildo on and throwing it in the can. I don't know how you would characterize

that. Noam would probably say that those men are at least a little bit gay. You think they're Rudy Tutti? If I had to guess. They may be Rudyy-tooty, but they are not fresh and fruity. That's where you have to make the distinction. I feel very strongly, not that I would ever do that, but that

if the sex is with a woman, then it's not gay. Well, but what's the difference between a woman with a strap-on and an extremely feminine, very passable trans woman with a real penis, which is probably softer anyway. I mean, if I had to have something up there,

it'd probably... If they can still get it hard with a bunch of hormones, that is its own feat. Can we talk about Elizabeth Warren? That's exactly what I was thinking! It was so weird. You were talking about it earlier when you were talking about genetics and when you were talking about... A rough segment. Yes, we can. Oh, would you take it in the can from Elizabeth?

I would. No, I mean, listen. Men like to get things in the butt during sex. Finger or whatever it is. It's actually good for prostate health. It diminishes the likelihood of prostate cancer by like eight times. One of God's little jokes. I mean it.

Is that another Mehron fact? My friend Don. I worked at the Harvard School of Public Health with a guy who did colorectal cancer. It's like, this is data. Really? That's our tax dollar at work? They did a study? Absolutely.

They did a study on how- On butt stuff. Colon cancer or prostate cancer. Fingers in the ass. I was like, watch this, doctor. I somehow think that's not a real study. Anyway, so Elizabeth Warren. So here's the issue I have.

I feel like on the left, so much of what they're saying is we're correct because we're so smart. I started out with the libertarian thing, but I just thought I'm a libertarian. I just ended up a libertarian, I guess, because I added up the way I looked at the world. I felt like you're mostly on your own, and that's a good thing. You want to be in charge of your own fate, and I don't like people telling me what to do. And I think because the left has academia that they, it's so important to them to be like, we're right and you're stupid,

whereas on the right, it's, you're wrong because it's a moral failing. And I think it's easier for me to say, yeah, I know I'm kind of a scumbag, I'm a human, I don't sweat that. But when someone says that it's because I'm stupid, that gets me angry. So I don't want someone telling me that I have to agree with them. I think that's what bothers me.

Don't tell me what I have to say about somebody. I don't like it. Can I just loop in quickly Paul F. Tompkins' comment about Noam? What did he say? I think it's apropos. Well, you know, Paul Tompkins, I guess he's a famous comedian. He's got a million Twitter followers. Of course, he's been around forever. But he said that

Noam, he tweeted, I guess, that Noam did not have moral courage. What the shit? Moral courage or moral coward? Cowardice, I thought. Because he put on Louis, and I heard Noam on a podcast. Let me just tell you something. Well, no, I could have just...

Noam on a podcast. Was that with Slate? Slate, yeah. And he made the point that, well, no, I don't have the courage of your morality that you've decided is moral. But in fact, Noam did express moral courage by taking a position that he thought was correct. And that is deeply unpopular right now.

Deeply unpopular. It is so, that moral courage is being like, okay, I'm reading the room. They're not going to like this. I'm going to say it anyways. That's moral courage. Looking at the tweetosphere where, you know,

you happen to also subscribe to the same binary thinking that's like, women have been wronged and we have to side, and anyone who has ever done anything wrong has to be banned forever. That scream that comes from social media,

to see that and to agree with it and to echo it takes no moral courage at all. Well, I do appreciate what you're saying that, Dan, because I actually felt that this was, I mean, I never wanted to say too much, but I actually felt that this was a moral test that I was going through. That the easiest thing to do would have been

to just buckle. Business was great. Nothing bad was going to come to me by telling Louis it's too hot right now. So where was the moral cowardice? I thought in principle

it was right that he should be able to perform. That's what I thought. And I gave him a million reasons why. Yet this guy reads it and decides I'm a moral coward. Well, how many likes did he get for saying that? Probably quite a few. That's what it is. That's all it is.

I don't know if anybody knows how to get in touch with him, but I would like Paul F. Tompkins, because most of the people who blast me, we invite them on the podcast, and they don't come. And from time to time when they do come, they don't come in quite like the lion that they were in the Atlantic magazine, do they? Which is a nice thing, actually. Which is a nice thing.

We had a lot of good experiences with people who have written negatively about us and they came on the show. But Paul F. Tompkins, he should have the moral courage to come in here and sit down and let's debate it. I think that's exactly right, though. And by the way, that is basically what our world has been reduced to. Everyone is alone behind their screen, so everyone is just sort of yelling

like they're issuing a statement as opposed to engaging in dialogue. I think he lives in L.A. He does live in L.A., yeah. As if he doesn't come to New York ever. We'll do it by phone. We'll do it by Skype. We'll get...

I want to hear... Or if he's willing, would you be willing to fly the band out to L.A.? Probably you would not be. Okay. I mean... On the table. Maybe we meet him in Vegas.

Hey, Vegas. That's actually a great idea. Take him out in Vegas. You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of, I've brought friends of mine down before who have told me beforehand that they hated a particular comedian,

like a very famous comedian, and then it just so happens that that comedian shows up, and then my friend says to me afterwards, I don't feel remotely like I thought I would seeing them. I actually, in front of them, seeing them standing there in front of me, I actually really respect them.

And I think that happens a lot on this show where we invite people on who have said disparaging things either about the club or about Nome or whatever, but once you recognize that it's an actual human sitting there or standing there in front of you, your tune changes. Does that make sense? It should. Yeah. I think a part of being a human being is that you figure out why you feel a certain way

and why you want to say something and why you have to go through this process in your mind to be a fully developed individual, and we've lost that. I saw something on Twitter where a woman made some ridiculous leftist comment, and anyone who disagreed, she said Russian bot blocked. So anyone who disagreed with her was a Soviet propaganda and I thought, like, is that how

fragile your opinion is? Because I try to always go into a conversation with someone I know one person who actually does get hit with Russian bots a lot. But to say anyone who disagrees with you because a person who disagrees with me, they may be correct. And I always go in there thinking, all right, maybe I missed something. I'm here to learn and figure shit out.

I'd rather do right than be right. I don't get anything by everyone yielding to me. No, there's nothing better than being right. Being right is certainly satisfying. If I can prove it. If I can prove it. Joe, I tell you, Joe DeVito does a mean impression of intellectual. I mean, you hear him talk.

If you just tune right in, you'd say, I wonder what school he's a professor at. Yes, but then you see the act and you think, what is this shit? But it turns out he's just a comedian, probably never finished high school. Well, how far did you go in your education? Actually, my guess is you probably have a grad degree.

The way you talk. I took one graduate course, but then I bailed. So I have a degree in English literature and writing, but I do pursue adult education. That's actually sweet. So what else are we going on? Well, I'd be remiss if we didn't mention

a friend of the Comedy Cellars that has shuffled off his mortal coil, as if I believe it was today or yesterday, Dennis Hoffman. Oh, for crying out loud. Well, he was a frequent visitor here at the Comedy Cell. Was shuffled up

the Mortal Coil? Yes. Well, you don't know Shakespeare? Yeah, no. He was, yeah. I was going to say that's very good then.

Well, no, I didn't make that up. Blue, green marble. That's from, I believe it's from Hamlet. I believe it's from the To Be or Not To Be speech. Soliloquy or whatever. Do I have any backup on that?

Yes. Joe, you were there. It is Joe, you took an adult education class. There also was a band called This Mortal Coil, which is a British band from the 1980s. It is also a fairly common turn of phrase. It's a common expression. I didn't know that phrase. This Mortal Coil.

So Dennis Hoff died. Dennis Hoff died. He was a regular here. I don't know. He used to go down. I think he was a friend of Jim Norton's. Oh, he went down. Yes, he did. But I'll tell you what. I don't know if... Yeah, he used to go down. I think he was a friend of Jim Norton's. Oh, he went down. Yes, he did.

But I'll tell you what. I don't know much about Dennis Hoff, but I'll be damned if he wasn't a nice guy when he was here. He died with Joe Arpaio. Peace out. This was a nice guy. This is a man in the service business. These people know how to be nice to people.

I would sometimes disparage Dennis Hoff because I felt being a legal pimp, he didn't have quite the street cred of a real pimp. Maybe start. Go ahead. You want to say that? I was just going to say that that takes the fun out of it to me, of prostitution, is to have it condoned by the government and regulated. Also, I think you've got to support your small businesses and go with the individual prostitutes.

It's true. It's like when I hire a maid off of Amazon and then I just like pay her under the table. The other problem with The Bunny Ranch, which was Dennis Hoff's thing, did you watch that show on HBO? No, I did not. The Cat House? A couple episodes.

Oh, I watched every single one. Multiple times. Was it on Fox News? I know, I know. I didn't see it. TV got one channel. No, it was on HBO all the time and I would watch it in the hope of seeing balls

or an ass crack of a man, and I could cover Air Force Amy with my hand, and I would just look at the balls, and there was a father-son one once that fully... Jesus Christ. There's nothing wrong with it. They would throw rings on wangs. Well, Air Force Amy wasn't my favorite either,

but she seemed like a... Okay, but all of these prostitutes were very low. None of them were sophisticated ladies. And the numbers that they would show them ringing up would always be like, you know, it's a $4,000 party, it's a mouth party, it's a butt party. The show was so crazy. I think it distorted America's idea of what prostitutes should and do get paid.

So for that alone, I'm glad he's gone. And just in terms of the number of people coming through, you don't want to have the old McDonald's sign out front where the numbers are changing of, you know, four billion served. Speaking of this, what do you think about the horse face comment? Jesus Christ, horse face. I mean, the number of sort of animal body part combinations that could be applied to Trump,

be it bunny cock or turtle hair or cow neck or seal gut. Where am I? Do you know what I mean? I think, come on, give Merrin a bit more credit for that. Very good, very good. I mean, if you call someone mushroom dick, they get to call you horse face. It's in the Constitution. Okay?

Do your research. Retaliation. I didn't like that horse face comment at all. It's not at all presidential. I mean, it's a great... We're past presidential. You're right, but still. We're past that.

Well past. Would you feel better if he was saying whore's face and it was just an error in translation? It wouldn't be untrue. Well, I don't like the word whore, even to describe somebody in that business. I'm a whore. But to me, whore is like tranny. I mean, it's a word I generally avoid unless it's in porn. What do you think of the theory that this is just a distraction from the larger story of the Saudi killing of the journalist? That whenever Trump descends into this kind of...

Jamal Khashoggi. Yeah, right. I'm not well informed about that issue. I know it's a big issue. I know it is. Well, no, they tossed the case, and that's why he said, suck it, horse face. Yeah, he was doing a spike in the football. He was spiking the football.

It's just, it makes him, he was, he was. She's going to appeal. Like, he won. Yeah. And he undercut his own victory. Well, he does that. I mean, he doesn't win with any kind of grace, but that's the pattern with him. It makes people talk, and that's his only job.

He's a terrible winner, probably a far worse loser but a pretty piss poor winner. Listen, I thought Stormy Daniels is a terrible person. She had consensual, yeah I do, she had consensual sex

with a married man and then she hit him up for money. She took the money and then she still went public. Did she hit him up or was it just took the money and then she still went public. Did she hit him up or was it just hush money? Yeah, it was hush money, but what about the sanctity of hush money?

Yeah, well, that's right. I'm saying... What about the sanctity of hush money? I'm saying, no, no, just the idea of having consensual sex with somebody and then coming to them for money is bad enough.

I can't believe that prostitute turned on me. Well, she's a porn star. She's technically not a prostitute. She is compensated for sex. But having said all that, I thought it was terrible that he called

her. It's just mean and nasty. He just shouldn't have done that. Well, any time that you reduce a woman to... You analyze a woman's physique or her physical attributes is offensive to women in general. It's offensive to anybody.

Nobody's running around waiting to be called horse face. Whether or not your face is reminiscent of a horse, and I don't think it is, although there are people that do look like horses, and that's without question the truth. Jerry Seinfeld's been accused of that.

Well, he did capitalize it. Does he get any credit for that? Of course he does. I don't know. But, you know, I thought that was a nice touch. It's generally not considered dignified for a man to publicly

It's awful. criticize a woman for her appearance. Trump is low class. Can you believe he's low class? But again, Noam, we're well past that with Trump. And I think we have to adjust our expectations to what presidents say, you know, accordingly. I don't listen to anything he says anymore.

I've disabled him in my preferences. He doesn't come up. I don't see him. for what presidents say. I was upset when he was talking about Dr. Ford and saying, you know, in front of, in the Mississippi rally, and he was saying, well, she doesn't remember. She remembers she had one beer, but she doesn't remember this,

and she doesn't remember that. That I thought was a lot less appropriate than the horse face comment, in terms of, on the scale of things that Trump has said recently that upset me. Really? That I thought was worse. What do you want to say, Steve?

I think the horse face was worse, but neither of them are good. Go ahead. It's an interesting segue. So a friend of the show, Wall Street Journal reporter Elizabeth Bernstein, had a new column the other day that I thought was appropriate to this discussion. The new father-son sex talk. The Me Too era has made a difficult conversation even more complex, but dads can and should persist. Here's how era has made a difficult conversation even more complex, but dads can

and should persist. Here's how. What can a father do? Experts say dads should start talking about sex as soon as their sons become curious and keep the dialogue going. If your son resists talking, and he probably will, explain that this is a necessary conversation and your job as a parent

is to have it with him. So basically you're saying if he doesn't want to have the conversation, he better shut up and take it. Yes. What are you supposed to say to them? I would love to say that. I would love this. You need to discuss consent.

You need to discuss consent. You also need to discuss- How many times do you need to say it? Male sexual ineptitude. And so much of what is going on right now is a byproduct of male sexual ineptitude. And if that becomes speakable, if we can talk about the fact that guys sometimes, listen, Much of what is going on right now is a byproduct of male sexual ineptitude. And if that becomes speakable, if we can talk about the fact that guys sometimes, listen, she was crying and you tried to mouth fuck her, still, sweetie, no, don't do that.

Or like... Wait, by sweetie, you mean the guy? As in the guy. Okay. The guy. You're telling the guy, honey, don't... Be clear. Don't, don't, she's crying. I thought you were saying like sweetie could be interpreted as don't cry.

Maybe you don't try to stick your dick in her mouth while she's crying. Maybe you don't do that. Well, that's more an issue of... But this is sexual ineptitude. This is guys not reading signals. This is guys not knowing how to fuck and be decent lovers. And letting a guy have that, you will probably have periods of sexual ineptitude,

but strive for fucking more. Try to be a fucking halfway decent lover. Read your partner, read the room, and don't fuck up. Well, that's a separate issue. I mean, if a woman is crying, that's a pretty clear signal. Is it?

Well, it should be. This is coming from a man who's never had to decipher a woman's intentions before. But I've had so much sex with men who don't know what the fuck they're doing. I've had more sex with men who don't know what they're doing than anyone else at this table.

When has anybody ever said no to you? So true. I'm so good. No, lots of people said, I mean, please, I promise you people have said no. I'll tell you this. But I took no for an answer. Nobody ever had to tell me not to grab a titty or grab an ass. Of course.

It seemed, I don't know, I don't remember anybody saying don't do that. It just seemed obvious enough to me. This is the thing. And this is what's wrong with Elizabeth's thing. In my opinion. People put so much faith in these magic words. You don't learn about

this stuff from some conversation your dad has with you one day. You learn about it from growing up and watching your dad every single day and the way he interacts with people and your mother and you. And your bros. That's how you learn to be respectful of other people.

Because this idea of consent, this is not limited just to sex. This is a way that you treat other people. You're not wrong. And I don't think you can fix that by, come here, I want to tell you something. Oh, and this is very deep patterns here. And this idea that a conversation changes everything runs, I can't think of anything right now,

but it runs deep throughout society. Like, oh, if you just had this conversation, that would fix everything. And it doesn't. A little bit. Elizabeth touches upon that. I caught a thief working for me. And I had a conversation and I explained to her that it's wrong to steal. And you know, that was it. She didn't steal anymore. Or like, you know...

Oh, thanks for telling me, boss. If you have a bro who says something especially stupid and it's not a joke, it looks like it actually reflects that this person looks at the world in a disrespectful way, you can look to your left or right and tell them to cool it. Elizabeth talks about this, though. Most fathers

father the way they got fathered. When it comes to talking about sex with their sons... Is that like sea cells by the sea? Like a man-a-plan Panama. When it comes to talking about sex with their sons now, this can be a problem. Today's dads went to high school and college in a very different era.

AIDS was the big danger everybody talked about. People thought the biggest risk of assault came from strangers who jumped out from a dark place. And few talked about consent or healthy sexual intimacy. I mean, can any of you remember your father talking to you about consent? I can't remember my father talking to me. No. I didn't know what he was trying to tell me at the time.

He was trying his best. Well, I haven't read the article, but it sounds legit in that the issue I have is when people now say things like, we need to have a conversation. What they usually mean is, I'm going to yell at you about some stuff, and I want you to supplicate to me. Yeah, lecture. Supplicate. So I think it's important to have this conversation. There's this professor, adult education strikes again.

But there's three parts to that conversation. There's the way you treat other people. There's protecting yourself as a young man. Don't put yourself in a bad situation where you might make, don't get drunk. Don't get into a situation where things get misconstrued. And most of all, if you can tell your son, masturbate before you leave the house. If you can tame your sex drive for a couple of minutes, you will make much better choices. Well, that was the advice Chris Elliott gave

to Ben Stiller. Yes, it's true. I have to go to Do Come to Papa. Why? Because it's starting now. You have a few moments. We're almost finished. Just chill out. Well, yeah, okay. We can end just about now. Do you want to come up?

We have a guest, a contest winner. John. John. John Michaels. John is a fan of the show, and he emailed, and we asked him to come down. He can come watch the show. But are you a dad? I am a dad, yes.

You have a son? I have a son and a daughter. How old is your son? Son is 31. Okay, so you're perfect here. What did you teach him about consent and all that? Nothing. It was all, it was all, well, I mean, nothing as far as sitting him down or anything like that.

It was all based on, I mean, I think he saw, he saw how I interacted. Like you were saying, he saw how I interacted with his mother and with other women and other people. But we never really had that sit down. I don't know if anybody's had the sit down and masturbate before you go out. Do people, do dads actually say that? No one has to tell me to masturbate. So, but you didn't fear that he wouldn't understand.

I mean, the idea of consent, another way of putting that is like, you shouldn't force people physically to do something they don't want to. That's pretty obvious. Don't be a dick. Don't get too high on your man horse. If you and your bros are all feeling like, yeah, we're going to go out, we're going to

mistreat women, it's going to be awesome. If you see that happening, kill that culture where it's sprouts. There is one aspect of that whole thing, which I don't know. I don't have enough experience with it, but it's certainly possible that this plays a part, which is the kind of porn that these kids watch.

We didn't have that. And they're born with it, yeah. So they're seeing this kind of immediate access. I think porn's a lot like cartoons. You know, I see Bugs Bunny hitting Daffy with a shovel, and Daffy is perfectly fine afterwards, or Fred Flintstone falls off a cliff and he walks away. But I know it's not true.

It could be argued that rape was even crazier before porn, by the way. So I'm just saying I think porn, you understand, is... That people know it's not real. It's not real. Well, that's interesting, Dan, because all my porn is made by the Acme Company. My source for rocket skates and pornography. Is that where he... Someone draws a dick

on a wall and I run towards it like I'm in a circus. Ow! Yosemite Sam looks down and sees a penis and I run towards it like I'm in a soccer game. Yosemite Sam looks down and sees a penis and goes, I think part of whatever this conversation is, it needs to include that men and women can be talking about

the same thing at the same time in completely different languages. And I don't think we talk about that enough that you can think the other person is agreeing with you or understanding what you're saying when it's actually heading in the opposite direction. It's a very difficult thing to acknowledge that men and women speak about the same things

in a different way. And I think a lot of the conflict comes from that. So when this whole Me Too thing hit, is there... How do I want to ask this? Two ways to ask it. One question is, is there anything in your past you look at and say, ah, I might not have – should have done that?

Or another way to ask it would be like if you had to come up with the worst, the most likely incident that somebody held against you. Can you picture that incident? You know, as it came up, it definitely has changed the way I've thought about it. Fortunately, I can't think of anything in my own life where, but mostly it was just because my sheer ineptitude when I was growing up.

I can. The worst thing I think I did, a waitress here had a neck tattoo, and I pulled her shirt slightly down to see the entire tattoo, and she said, Dan, don't do that. And I said, okay. That's probably the worst thing I ever did. I had a boy who was following me around all the time.

A boy how old? No, no, no. Within like three years of me. He was kind of like idolizing me and he wanted to drink with me and we got super drunk. We were both completely fucked up. He was kind of passed out-y. I was super fucked up. I was like,

we're doing this. And then while we were doing it, he came to and was like, what's going on? And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I am so fucking sorry. Like, I misread this completely. And the next day, all his boys showed up and they were like, what'd you do to our boy? And I was like, I stopped

is what I did. Wow, that's a deep story. It's a real story and it happened what'd you do to our boy? And I was like, I stopped is what I did. And, uh, that's a deep story. It's a real story. And it happened. And then one of them tried to fight me and I broke a table with him. Um, this sounds like one of the most hilarious fight. It was a real thing that happened.

I think about it all the time. And, uh, there, there is gray area. This world is not good or safe. And a lot of stuff lives in the mind and has to gray area. This world is not good or safe, and a lot of stuff lives in the mind and has to be negotiated in the real world.

That's all. Wow. Really, we're in the show on a downer. Well, I think it's a good way to end, but I think it's time for me to do pop. Okay, we can end. I apologize for adding to that. No, that's good.

Do you have an incident you're ashamed of in your past? Nothing that I'm ashamed of, but definitely one or two things that this era has made me think about and reflect upon. Nothing that I am comfortable sharing. I have one, but I don't know

if it counts, but it is the one thing I'm most... My wife doesn't listen to this show, thank God. I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't say it it counts, but it is the one thing I'm most... My wife doesn't listen to this show, thank God. I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't say it. Well, give us the cliff notes. It doesn't involve any kind of physical coercion or whatever it is. It was at a party in high school,

and I got a handjob from this girl. Totally consensual handjob. Clearly. Handjobs are hard to read. That's a hard one to force on someone. And then I said, and afterwards, and I said,

you know, I'm going to go get something to drink. I'll be right back. And I couldn't bring myself to go back. Oh. I couldn't bring myself to go back. So I went and I slept

in the bedroom of my friend whose house it was, but his parents were away. And then in the morning I had to look at her. And she, and I, you know, but I had really hurt her feelings. Oh. And I, you know, at that age I didn't understand that, you know. Yeah. And it's, I remember to this day like, shit, you know, I really feel bad about that.

But that's a good lesson to learn. I get that. That's a good lesson to learn because I think when you're young, you don't quite understand that until you see that hurt in someone else's eyes and you're like, oh shit, that's why I'm not supposed to do that.

Yeah. But I don't have any physical coercion or anything like that in my background. All right. Well, anything else? I can't have any physical coercion or anything like that in my background. All right. Well, anything else? I can't wait for next week. Stay tuned for next week where Mehran is going to take on Sarabhamari on Persian politics.

And anything else? You want to give your credits? Yeah. Well, you can go to at JoeDeVitoComedy on Twitter and Instagram and JoeDeVito.com for my show dates and all that stuff. Would love to hear from everybody.

At MehronX on Twitter, at The Mehron on Facebook and Instagram and we'll yakety yak whatever. By the way, I didn't even talk about this. I'm such a failure as a promoter.

We have our own Comedy Central show starting this week. Oh, Jesus Christ, that's so true. We're shooting it and this airs promoter, we have our own Comedy Central show starting this week. We're shooting it. This airs on Thursday. So a week from tomorrow, a week from Friday, 11 o'clock

on Comedy Central, the first week of This Week at the Comedy Cellar featuring, I presume, Mehran and the rest of the Comedy Cellar family. So we're going to have at least eight episodes, I think, before they cancel us. And I'll tell you something.

I hope they don't cancel us. But if they do cancel us, we're going to have some awesome podcasts. Yeah. All right. Good night, everybody. Bye.