The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Joe Lindsley and Tanael Joachim

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

Tanael Joachim (TJ) is a stand up comic who grew up in Haiti. He is an Op-Ed contributor to The NY Times and his debut special, January 3, is available on Amazon Prime. He is a regular at the Comedy Cellar.  Joe Lindsley is an American journalist living in Ukraine and the editor of Ukrainian Freedom News. He was the long time protege of Roger Ailes.  

this is live from the table recorded at the world famous comedy cellar coming at you on sirius xm99 raw dog and on the laugh button podcast network this is dan natterman i'm here with noam dorman owner of the world famous comedy cellar we have periel ashenbrand here the show's producer much put upon but much appreciated in equal measure thank you we also have tj comedy seller regular tj from haiti originally now makes his home in new york city thank you thank you for being here and of course i'd be remiss if i didn't mention the maestro of the mixing board the sorceress of sound the diva of decibels from the great city of binghamton new york or somewhere thereabouts nicole lions is with us from behind the scenes she usually doesn't say much but nicole it's almost like he's flirting

with you yeah that was a lot that was like four or five different credits and hold on was that top of the dome or you planned that uh no no i planned that was that was very yeah that was very poetic i might do it again at a future future episode uh we're waiting for a a guest to come but whilst we're waiting uh i'm sure we have things to talk about first of all i noticed noam is dressed up today and i inquired why and he said he had an interview so i'm a little curious about what the nature of that interview was oh the new y York Times is doing a, or somebody's doing a documentary about the entire Louis CK thing. But I believe it's from a pro-Louis or anti-cancel culture point of view.

So I agreed to sit for the interview. Okay. For a second, I was going to be like are we not done with this if it was on the other side of it but even on the pro side it seems like we should just let the guy live now it's over yeah I agree but it's always a predicament because

if they're doing the documentary anyway this is a calculation you have to make like well what are they going to say if I'm not on it right you want to stand for yourself yeah do, well, what are they going to say if I'm not on it? Right. You want to stand for yourself. Yeah. Do you know if he's going to be on it? I can say with a lot of certainty without knowing that

he's not going to be on it. Well, if it's pro-Louis, then he'll freeze over because then maybe. Yeah, he probably wouldn't do it anyway, even if it was pro-Louis. Is it going to be on streaming or where's it oh i don't know it's just it's just starting who knows even when it when it will come out probably you but it's not nice people making it so happy well more publicity for the comedy seller obviously not well it's a good publicity i guess so i don't know tj we were talking last time before our guest gets here about social media and comedy, TikTok, Instagram.

Do you post things on Instagram and TikTok? I do on Instagram a little bit, but it's very it's a choice that is hard to make because for me, it's almost like when you do stand-up it's I guess to use a poor analogy when you do stand-up you're basically you're making food in the kitchen like like a regular restaurant but when you do social media clips it's like fast food you gotta feed the beast everything's gotta be quick so the quality of the stuff you have to produce for social media is gonna be bad in general just because it's a quick turnaround if you do it and you find that your followers rise then you want to want to do it every day and nobody can write a great bit every day that's just not how comedy works so it

sort of diminishes the value of stand-up comedy in a way but it helps you with your marketing so it's a choice you got to choose. A double-edged sword, if you will. Yeah. I think Attell could write a great bit every day. Everything. Well, yeah, he could. Nah.

Even Attell, I don't know if that's true. He could write a good joke. Attell should do a daily TikTok. Yeah, Attell probably should do TikTok. And he probably, and it should be, I think, his crowd work. Because I think his crowd work is really where he shines. It's unbelievable. And it would always be new and fresh and he wouldn't have to worry so much about burning material. He has so much old material he could put up there, too. Yeah, he does.

He can also do that. Do you think, Noam, I mean, have you noticed that comics are changing their act to accommodate social media? A lot of comics, they don't want to burn material. Maybe they're doing more crowd work than they would have otherwise done. I don't know if you've noticed that. Have you noticed that? I haven't necessarily noticed, but I don't really necessarily watch other comics that closely.

You notice that, Perrielle? No, absolutely not. I think that comics are changing their acts to do... I wouldn't say changing their acts, but maybe doing more crowd work than they would have done otherwise because they don't want to burn

material on social media but they want to get that crowd work nugget that might you know Eric Newman does crowd work anyway but he was telling us that his most viral clip was a crowd work clip yeah that makes sense.

He struck gold. It was someone who was somebody somebody screwed his friend's mother or something. What was it? Yeah, he was talking to somebody and it was a girl and a guy and the guy and he thought they were a couple. But the guy had had sex with her mom or something.

But you're only going to strike gold. If you mind for it. That's right. So you have to be up there talking to the crowd. One thing I'll say from my act is you know, I have a new joke about Pride Month. I probably wouldn't have come

up with that joke if it weren't for the impetus to do topical material. Are you trying to record it to put it out? I already put it up and it did okay. It didn't go viral. But the point is it pushed me to write a joke I might not have otherwise written. So true or false, that if crowd work is the

key to the kingdom. I don't know if it's the key to the kingdom. It's the key to not burning material and maybe the key to the kingdom. If crowd work is one of the proven viable routes to TikTok fame, given the things he says, Ray Allen ought to have a few million followers on route to TikTok fame. Given the things he says,

Ray Allen ought to have a few million followers on TikTok by now. Am I wrong, Dan? I mean, you have to use it. He just started posting. Oh, he has? He just started. Oh, I didn't know. Literally, like when I started.

So we'll see where it leads. Yeah. I mean, crowd work is the purest form of comedy. So it makes sense that it works on TikTok. Now, here's a question about crowd work. What if a person in the crowd objects to you putting them on TikTok? That hasn't come up, and I don't think anybody is paying

any attention to that. That could come up. It will. You don't really see the people. You typically don't see them. You only hear their voice. And they'll use subtitles to write whatever it is. I mean, it's really, the camera's really on the content. The person would have to see it, would have to recognize their voice

or remember the evening. And all those things could happen and they'd have a case. I guess you'd take it down. I mean, I don't know what they're going to sue you because no one's making income directly from social media. Isn't there some sort of quiet agreement

that if you come to a comedy show, then you're willing to be a participant in whatever happens? In the room. In the room. I don't know that you're a willing participant on TikTok, but with potentially millions of people, literally millions of people literally millions of people seeing you yeah that's a good point if you find yourself or hearing you in this you find

yourself a part of a viral comedy duo that's making a lot of money on social media you might say i want 50 of that revenue that's fair i'm your straight man well again you don't make money directly on so well sometimes you do actually sometimes you do sometimes you do there is a there is some sort of formula where people do yeah don't make money directly on social media. Well, sometimes you do, actually. Sometimes you do. Sometimes you do. There is some sort of formula where people do make money. Yeah, some people make money, but some people use it as an investment. But most people are just trying to get followers. But again, I've never seen anybody's face other than the

comics in any of these. Yeah, but I don't think legally, if it's your voice, you still have I don't think. You can have a case, I guess. I think you can have some sort of a case. I think so. Let's get Dershowitz on. No one has complained thus far, but maybe somebody will. It's something. Yeah, people are greedy.

Sooner or later, somebody is going to put somebody Jewish on there. They're going to complain. It's all for a few people. Oh, OK. All right. This is just Jews. All right. Perry all knows.

It's actually somebody that Perry will grow up with. Long Island Yentas. All right. This is just Jews. All right. Periel knows. It's actually somebody that Periel grew up with. Long Island Yentas. Go ahead. I still didn't grow up in Long Island. Queens, the same thing. It is so not the same thing. Like it couldn't be less the same thing. And as like a New Yorker, you should know that better than anyone. Dan, should you have a segment in the show where it's just Gnome and Periel fighting for five minutes?

There is such a segment. It's not planned, but it happens every show. Yeah, more or less. As I said, she's often put upon but appreciated in equal measure. This is like bigotry in a way. It reminds me of like for her, for somebody from Long Island, it's very, very different than Queens.

We're very, very different than Long Island, right? And they get mad about it like i remember my wife's puerto rican and i remember i had the nerve to suggest i was pretty similar to being dominican yes and she's like are you crazy yes and then and then she began to tell me the the things which distinguish the cultures and the things she said were so like if i were to say them out loud you would accuse me of being racist she's like they don't wear socks and things like like crazy stuff yeah it's it's pure tribalism yeah yeah pure tribal insane you're the same as long island no no no i'm not because long island is the part i mean what you're saying is not even a clear what you're saying to me the implication that you're trying to relay is that it's like this like sort of snotty wealthy spoiled jewish jappy jappy yeah and that's not true in queens like that's not true about where i grew up and it's maybe true a little bit about how i grew up

but that's my case no i didn't grow up wealthy at all. I didn't grow up surrounded by like Rachel Dolezal. How did you get there? Where did you get this? How did you do it? It's amazing. You're a mimic. I must have learned it. I don't perceive Perriello. I mean, it's completely inaccurate.

I don't perceive it that way. Hold on. In any way. Only non-Jewish. It's that, what, Jewish? Jewish American princess. It's like a very spoiled. Give me a specific, like, famous example that I would know. You get like a Mercedes for your bat mitzvah and a nose job. Yeah, usually those people don't wind up.

Usually you wouldn't know them because they don't wind up. They don't become public figures. They don't wind up in show business. You had a nose job. No, I did not have a nose job. It's apparent you didn't. Hold on. I'm looking.

TJ's wearing a shirt. If I could just change the subject thing. Netflix is a joke. The festival, a festival that I was not participating in. They weren't even supposed to tell you about it. Well, I saw it. I saw it on Facebook. Robbie Prah was posting about it he's the uh netflix

comedy guru comedy yeah uh who has about as much use for me as michael cox does at the night show but but in any case you you've welcome to grievance with dan you've never done the tonight show i i did the tonight show with conan years ago Gotcha. He actually hosted the Tonight Show for about six months. Because I can think of more perfect comedians for late night. You know what cracks me up? I sometimes will bring up a story that I told like five years ago, like the time Dan called me out in front of this

perfect 10 girl I was dating, and he tried to totally sabotage me. He's like, we've covered this before. We've covered this before. And then he'll talk about the same thing four weeks in a row. but i'm talking about shit perseverating four weeks in a row about the same i don't know perseverating a word i guess it is i didn't mean to cut you off whilst you looked at up i'm gonna finish my conversation with cj no michael cox gave me a a categorical no when i sent him a video recently.

Not a, oh, I like this joke and this joke, but maybe tighten up that joke. Not, oh, maybe if you started stronger, but I like the rest. No, it was just a no. So I took it seriously. I took it personally. And I have mentioned it more than once on this show.

No one apparently is tired of hearing of it. Anyhow. I mean, talk about using the perfect word for the perfect situation. Perseverating, repeat or prolong an action, thought or utterance after the stimulus that prompted it has ceased. Perseverating?

Look, it's from the word persevere. Persevere. Oh, got it, got it. Okay, fair enough. It's a word. It's not a word that people use, but it's a word nonetheless in my circles. So anyway, so that's

what I was talking about with him. And you're quite right, TJ, that is late. I mean, maybe I'm not, I may be not good at a whole lot, but late night talk shows do seem to be something I do well. Yeah, that I, that my jokes are geared for, but for whatever reason, perhaps he wants new blood. I don't know what it is, but he has decided

against. Maybe he wants young hot TikTok comedians. Well, he may well might want that. I've never done the Tonight Show either, so don't know what it is, but he has decided against pursuing TikTok comedians. Well, he may well. I've never done the Tonight Show either, so don't worry about it. Same boat. But you did do Netflix is a Joke, the festival. Look, when I was younger, I did a lot of shit too.

And then I guess I aged out. You did Premium Blend. I never got to do that. I did do Premium Blend. But tell us, I guess, before our guest gets here, because he should be here soon, just briefly about the Netflix is a Joke festival and what your experience to do that. But tell us, I guess, before our guest gets here, because he should be here soon, just briefly about the Netflix is a Joke Festival and what your experience was with that. It was a lot of fun.

I was there. I was at a different venue, but the night that Dave Chappelle got attacked, I was doing a show very close to it. And it was kind of unbelievable because it was just comedians texting each other. Did you hear this thing just happened? And nobody knew what to make of it.

We didn't know if it had to do with somebody being trans or if it was just somebody looking for attention or somebody was legit mentally ill. It was pretty crazy. But overall, the festival was a lot of fun. It was, I don't know if I should say this on the air. It was just like Netflix, the platform. It was too much. They did too many shows, too many stars,

to the point where some shows were light. Or it's like, you shouldn't have light shows. You're Netflix. You're taking over. Well, yes, that is very Netflix. I mean, I remember Christmas, they had hundreds, I don't know if it was hundreds, but they had many, many, many, many Christmas movies.

And I tweeted that there was a miscommunication. Somebody misunderstood when the order came down to Netflix to make a Christmas movie for everyone. Yeah. And I got like one like. But anyway, because I don't think people understood what I meant by it. I meant like for everyone, like

everyone will enjoy it. But they thought it meant a different Christmas movie literally for each person because they had so many Christmas movies. Yeah. Did you get that, Nicole, when I said it originally? Now, by the way, this is neither here nor there, but if I was in on the meeting where they decided on Netflix as a joke for the name of the

festival, Netflix is a joke. Yeah. I don't think I would have gone with it, although I have to admit it seems to work in a sense. It sticks in your head. Yeah. I don't think I would have gone with it. Although I have to admit it seems to work in a sense. It sticks in your head. Yeah. Well, then that name came before the festival. I think they just decided that the comedy segment is going to be

called Netflix is a joke. So they have an Instagram page where they promote all the specials. Yeah. So I guess joke. Yeah. Just to say that they own jokes. Now comedy is them. They are comedy comedy necklace is jokes

netflix isn't funny listen before joe gets here because i told tj that we would do this even though i'm not authorized to change subjects in extreme cases you have to make a petition before the committee i have exigent circumstances here um tj started a new show at the cellar yeah all right that sounds like it's worth talking about can you tell us a little bit oh yeah yeah i'm very excited about it it's been really fun we've had two so tj is a joke i got i got the third one in in an hour or so what's it called it's called the cellar chronicles okay and how can people and when is it what is it yeah every other week it's every uh other wednesday it's at the fat black pussy cat and it's at 6 45 p.m and the show is basically stand

up and talk show basically i find a comedian that i like and i enjoy and they do stand up and i do stand up and then they meet me on stage and we sit down and we chat did you ask dan to do it not yet why are you gonna make things awkward? Dan is on my list. Yeah, we just do that and we sit on the stage and we talk for 45 to an hour for the audience. I think I would do well.

It might be, by the way, there might be some good clips that can be... Yeah, that's sort of what I'm finding about it. The clips where we just talk and we riff and something funny comes up, then I could use that for social media without burning my material so this thing that we did with uh schultz and shane gillis and glenn lowry i think yeah apparently clips of that have really gone viral i've had a couple of people reach out to me from that yeah i didn't even know that the clips were doing well so that turned out to be a pretty good thing that we did yeah yeah

and the clips all have the comedy seller logo in them them. I don't know. I think we had Glenn Lowry's logo on it. Yeah, I think it's from the blogging heads, TV guys. I don't think you can see that. I don't know. I don't care. But no, it's just nice. Like we did that show and nobody was really sure why we were doing it or what would come of it.

But quite often when you do something like that, it's a good thing to do and good things come to you from doing things that are good. Well, what things do you have lined up, Noam, that you think might fall into that category? Do you have any more debates? Glenn Lowry is going to do another podcast with John McWhorter. In the VU. We're doing some other things. We'll see.

Oh, great. When? Do you know when? Lowry? Lowry and McWhorter. End of June. I'll give you a date. You keep saying you've been nonstop about how busy you are and how much you have on your plate and how you don't have time to do anything. What's

going on? A lot of these things are not time-consuming on my part. A lot of them are not time-consuming? Don't consume his time. I'm not going to be doing the podcast. Glenn Lowry's doing it. The one I did with TJ was time consuming because I had to be on the panel.

But in the future, I'm not going to be on the panel. So why do you keep saying, complaining about how busy you are and you don't have time to read any of my emails? I'm not sure what you're saying right now makes any sense at all. I have other things, other than the Glenn Lowry podcast.

Right, I'm asking you, what are those things? Well, my family, I have, I don't want to talk about them. Then does it feel like me and you are the children and mom and dad? It feels that way every day, every week. I have different brothers and sisters each week. It happens to be you this week. But just to piggyback off what you said, I agree with the philosophy of you do something

because you think it's good, not because you hope it's going to go viral or people are going to like it or whatever. It's first because you think it's good. They say you should go where the hockey puck is going, not where the hockey puck was. I'm going where it was. I'm like this social media.

I'm two years too late. Is that a thing that people say? I think so. I didn't make it up. I mean, I don't make up sports analogies as a general matter. Yeah, that's not really the strength. But that's not my strength. But I'm like two years late to this social media thing. You know, it's probably too late.

I mean, it's never too late. You know, it is a little late in the day. Is this Mr. Lindsay? Yeah, Lindsay. Lindsay? mean, it's never too late. You know, it is a little late in the day. Is this Mr. Lindsay? Lindsley? I'm sorry. Okay, Joe Lindsley, are you there?

He's about to be. Give Nicole a chance. The Sorceress of Sound. What is it? Devil of Decibels. The Diva of Decibels? The Diva of Decibels. The Maestro of the Mixing Board.

Joe Lindsley, how do you do? Hi. He's connected to his audio. Let me just introduce you whilst you're doing that. Joe Lindsley is a traveler and a writer, was once a protege of Roger Ailes, who directed much of the national discourse, but then he escaped that frenzied realm where power mattered more than truth, as he puts it in his biography.

And he began to discover the world. And now he is of all places in the Ukraine. He went to Ukraine before the war. The war broke out. He stayed there. And I'm sure that's we're going to talk about that. Welcome, Joe Lindsley, to our podcast. Hey, good. Good morning. Good evening to you all from Ukraine.

And I guess, yeah, we plan to talk in March 2020. I think we had a podcast scheduled. We did the week of when the lockdowns began in New York and over here in Europe. And so here we are two years later. I know it was so crazy because I remember you saying, well, I'd love to do it, but I'd really love to do it in person. I think you were in Germany, right?

I was, yeah, in Sweden. And then I flew from Sweden to, I don't remember. It feels like a hundred years ago. And most of those years were since February 24th. But yeah, and then for real, i've been following your post on instagram of the work all the you've been raising money with the odessa peace fund i think yeah and the hummingbird effort foundation yeah yeah and uh i don't know what is the hummingbirdmingbird Foundation? The Hummingbird Effort Foundation is an organization that was started by my friend Dorota, who's a real estate investment banker.

And she grew up under Soviet rule in Poland. And she still owned her family's house that she grew up in. And so she started rescuing women and their children. And as everybody knows, the men had to stay in Ukraine and she started putting them in that house. And then that house filled up with moms and kids. And she started signing leases for other mothers and children and setting people up with jobs. And, you know, a lot of the people who she grew up with are still across the border in Poland and she started this foundation now she's rescued over 75 moms and you know over a hundred kids and you know it's a grandma who's now making pierogi and selling them a florist a psychologist um so it's yeah it's pretty incredible yeah well i say when when two years ago when you invited me on i was hoping to uh since you since you all since you're comedians

to tell you some of the more absurd stories of my uh my strange adventures with uh the chairman of fox news like starving at chuck norris's house and lots of crazy stuff. But now, I don't know, we do need to laugh, especially now in this. But I'll leave it to you to direct what we talked about. But for example, yesterday. I did want to find, you know, I have a big interest in Fox News and how it's changed and gotten worse. And what kind of guy Roger Ailes was. These are the things I am interested in. But before we do talk about that stuff, what is your outlook for the future in Ukraine?

How do you think the war will end? What will will territory be permanently lost? What do you think is going to happen? It's difficult. And I'd say I was in Lviv the first three months of the war. And that's where I've been based for the past two years. And before the war, I was working with Ukrainian journalists. And the first hours of February 24th, with a bunch of volunteers, we ukrainian freedom news a telegram channel uh just to share what was happening here uh to translate the the news we could like unearth in ukrainian into english uh like really the raw stories and then we realized uh despite all this

alleged you know aid money soldiers were going to fight without proper gear. And these are things that you've seen as you've been raising money, for real. And so people started to give us money. They were reading our Telegram channel, just a little bit. And we would try to outfit anyone we could. And then I would say that the first month of the war, we had to deal with sort of Russian operatives in Lviv because they were all over Ukraine. They were prepared to, they thought the country was going to fall very quickly.

And they had operatives everywhere. And the second month, we had to kind of deal with the wildcat desperado foreigners that came to help. And finally, the third month, we have some competent, competent people that are organized and trying to help here. And so only last week was the first time I left Lviv since it started. And I'm now in Dnipro. And then every day, almost, I've been doing some day trips to the front lines. And it's a bleak picture. Yesterday, with some friends, we drove to a village called Guliapoli, which is one of the most contested areas. And while we were waiting at the last checkpoint for a military escort to get into the city, the Russians shot right at us.

Yeah, it was fortunately they were just far enough that they couldn't they could not hit the checkpoint where we were. But it was maybe two fields away, less than a football field, was where the blast landed. And then the whole time we were in this village, our driver, fortunately, was an amazingly fast driver. We were going from hospital to a few other places to deliver some supplies,

and they were shelling all around the city. And then after we left i got pictures later that they they really hit the city hard which is what they've been doing every day and because right now now after their blitzkrieg failed you know the first week of the war they couldn't take key for example now they're hitting little villages uh all up and down the south and and the east uh just because that's all they can do to take this little territory at a time and these are people that were living i mean as we were driving yesterday i saw farmers still working in their fields and you know i pray that with that blast hit that no one was standing in that field and it's it's absolutely horrible and uh

and you know and the toll it takes on everyone for example at the hospital yesterday uh i asked the chief doctor and the you know we're in the dark because we've given them a generator but they have to save it for only extreme circumstances and i asked the doctor you know do you have any plans to to evacuate and he said no i must stay here until the end whatever that means and at that point our translator she was a very brave girl that came with us she broke down in tears just and i think those tears and everyone in the room got quiet and understood what those tears meant that everyone here is at a breaking point um because it's it's all dreams are on hold. Everything is on hold. Do you think Ukraine can prevail?

Can they beat the Russians out of the Black Sea area? Can they? Look, Ukraine has done amazing things to keep this going, to keep the hopes of victory alive. And I think so, but only with support from the world. And unfortunately, you know, people start to lose interest now. And I think that's part of Putin's strategy. But then there's different definitions of prevail,

because let's say somehow you can push the Russians back, even back to the borders of February 24th or to 2014, but people are broken. I mean, I was in shelter here in Nipro with children that had PTSD, you know, five or six years old. So, you know, there's all kinds of, you prevail, but, you know, your city, like, Mariupol destroyed. Today, I took a walk with some new friends through a couple that stay in this hotel where I am, and they're from Severo Donetsk. And I asked a walk with some new friends through a couple that stay in this hotel where I am. And they're from Severo Donetsk. And I asked the woman, I said, you know,

do you like Nipro? She said, no, I miss my town. My town, she said, we made so much progress the past eight years since the revolution of dignity. We have beautiful parks. We have playgrounds for the children. We were building a lovely society. It's all gone.

So even if you win, it it's already a loss and tell me again it went by me who are you there representing just myself i mean i i mean i i i started in the pandemic i started to work with ukrainian journalists in the beat uh they had uh you know it was so refreshing they were so different from what i experienced it and uh on avenue of the america is the news corp and uh and so i was working with ukrainian journalists but uh yeah just with my friends here we everyone's and they're just now in month three or four a hundred whatever it is uh we call it people here call it february today is february 124th or something. It's still February. And we have some great American and British and other foreign volunteers that have come to help.

So that and the team of Ukrainians, we work together. So you're a brave man, actually. And that's an interesting thing all by itself. What motivates someone like you to, to risk your life in this situation? I think what I was just talking with some friends about this. I think part of it, it might be almost a, okay. A small bit of, I won't say it's like suicidal,

but like a bit of like, this world is absurd. And I think there might be that little bit of element in my mind. But I'd say the main thing is, when I was here, when the pandemic began, there was a chance to take a flight to escape. And somehow I thought the little I knew of Ukraine at the time is that this was going to be a better country to be in in the pandemic than most anywhere else. And the main thing is that no one was angry. People weren't arguing with each other like they did in America or other places. And Ukrainian society, I think Ukraine is one of the, even in this war, it's one of the freest countries in the world. People are free-spirited, and they're willing to die for that now.

And I'm grateful for this country that welcomed me. And so I think the best I can do is to stay with them until victory. And there must be a reason why I got stuck here for two years. So it's bravery or not, I feel that I don't have a choice. TJ had a question, by the way. Yeah. What do you notice that people do over there, like right now, to entertain themselves?

Is there any way to keep morale high? TJ wants to know if they have TikTok. And if they do, will they follow him? And also, is it hard to get laid doing a war? Those are the questions I want to know. There were different phases of the war. I'd say the first

month was everything stopped. Lviv is almost a little bit like New Orleans in in a way there's always music in the streets even during the pandemic there was but the first month of the war it was silent i mean it was like watching a world war ii movie everything was scary and stopped and uh when we really thought that russian tanks should be coming down the streets in a few days i mean everyone, everyone, you know, anyone that stayed there, we had resolved in our minds to face, you know, imagine the Russians coming to your door. And that was a real reality. So that was the first.

I'm sorry. I'm going to finish his answer. Go ahead, sir. Oh, no, no, I'm sorry. I thought Lviv was supposed to be a green zone. Was that is that not? It's become, yeah. So Lviv, I would say at the beginning of the war,

no one knew what to expect. And the Russians had, they're very good with the psychological aspect of it. They struck all the airports around Ukraine. And so they crippled the air infrastructure. And so Lviv was hit, as was almost every other major city. And so I think the world thought that Russia was stronger than they really were. And so there was a sense, yeah, when it began, there was a sense that anything could happen.

But then we realized, and the way the Ukrainians fought back that the first sort of five days that this is not going to be so easy for Russia. And then things began to adjust. And I'd say probably at the end of the first month, life began to come back. I first heard someone singing the Bella Chow song on the streets of the Veeb. And then all of a sudden, more and more music comes back and the bars opened a little bit. And then and life began to... People had to find a way to adapt. I did see something on TV about a comedy show. I don't know if it was in

Lviv or in another city, but I saw something about there is stand-up comedy there, and then they were doing a comedy show somewhere. Yeah. I don't think Zelensky was performing that night, but... Tell him he's passed at the comedy cell anytime he wants to come

you're welcome to come do a tour of at least some western Ukraine it is pretty safe Zelensky came here and did a set and Esty was like nah Esty would never pass Esty would never not pass Zelensky because he's Jewish.

That's fair. That's fair. I was supposed to go to Ukraine two years ago, and then the pandemic hit. Well, that's what he did. But I was about to go to open for Louis C.K. Really? And I didn't go. And then Louis was about to go recently without me to perform. And then the war came.

So apparently somebody doesn't want Louis going to Ukraine. I spent a number of days in Lviv just about almost 10 years ago exactly. And it's a beautiful European city. I was also in Kiev. Now it's Kiev. And it's impossible to imagine a city that looks like that. I know Lviv is not damaged, but Kiev might be. In a war-torn World War II kind of way, we really thought that type of thing just didn't happen anymore. And it's just, I don't really have any point other than that.

It's just, it's impossible to comprehend that they did this with no apparent reason. I mean, I understand that they have reasons from their point of view about, you know, essentially keeping Ukraine out of the Western orbit in one way or another. But to destroy the country and to murder people for that end is just it's just impossible to comprehend. No. Yeah. Well, and I remember I think it was two weeks before February 24th. Putin gave a speech, sort of his manifesto. And I was in a cafe in Lviv, a cafe facette, where kind of writers and philosophers and musicians hang out. And everyone was watching the speech. And at the end of that speech, no one said a word. And people just hugged each other.

And I went to my friend's bar across the street. And the same thing. Everyone just hugged each other. Because in that speech, Putin explained his hatred of the Ukrainian people. And I think it's because in 2014, they said, we don't want to be governed by your puppets. You know, they kicked out the corrupt Russian regime. Yeah. And but when Putin gave that speech, everyone in the V felt, oh, he's coming for us. And it was a strange, I mean,

everyone just looked each other in the eye and said, this guy is coming for us. And it was, I was, yeah, like crazy guy like Hitler. And say, I mean, like, he just hates these people and wants to destroy them. And I remember in peacetime walking through the streets of the Vivin like through the the old jewish quarter and you can see the ruins of the synagogue and and trying to imagine like the horror that happened there and and it was so hard to imagine in the biv of you know of 2020 and 2021 the biv of uh you know but but here it is last question on ukraine maybe uh what about the the i mean have you seen any nazis there so apparently you know putin putin makes a lot of the war forever.

Two months ago, they had one of the first concerts they had since the war began. It was a fundraiser and it was a Jewish Carpathian folk sort of fusion band. And they were raising money for the Azov Battalion. And so this narrative that is of is the neo-nazi uh group you know that's not you know jewish ukrainians are supporting it so even that part of the narrative doesn't work and i think part of it is uh there's a ukrainian toast uh uh this is slob ukraine hero i am slava and then they say slava nazi nazi not i'm not even pronouncing it correctly, my bad Ukrainian. Nazi is glory to the nation. It's Ukrainian word for nation. Ukrainians, you know, it's English and Ukrainian are different languages.

And I think probably some New York Times reporter heard that toast in a bar and said, oh, these people are Nazis. I think it might have been that simple. But no, I've seen a very tolerant country. And last summer, there was a jazz fest in the V, one of the few such festivals that could happen during those two years of the pandemic. And there were so many black musicians from America, they came here, including Adele's piano player. And he stayed, he loved Ukraine so much, he stayed. Adele's piano player? Yeah, yeah, Eric Worthen. A black guy? Yeah, yeah, from Philadelphia. His name, Miles? No, Eric Worthen, A black guy? Yeah, yeah, from Philadelphia. His name, Miles?

No, Eric Worthen, the second or the third. And he loved it so much. And then the night before the war, I was at that jazz club. And Ella Fitzgerald's son was singing. He lives in Ukraine. And he was singing an amazing blues song that night because we all felt something wicked was singing. He lives in Ukraine. And he sang an amazing blues song that night because we all felt something wicked was coming. But this country is incredibly

tolerant. And Putin, you know, his narrative is ridiculous. But unfortunately, one thing I can tell people is that this is actually an extremely tolerant and welcoming country. And President Zelensky is Jewish. It's a ridiculous narrative. And we say, President Zelensky is Jewish. I mean, it's a ridiculous narrative.

So, well, I think there's more to the, listen, I'm not bashing Ukraine at all. I'm with you on all this, but I think there is more to the Nazi story than that.

But I don't think, like I said, I think it's pretextual. Listen, these countries are complex. Of course. And there's residual aspects of recent history there and and i mean ukraine both has a jewish president and was also one of the most vicious anti-semitic countries at

one time and you know these are one generation removed from those people so it was not going to shock me to find out there's still jew haters there and it would but having said that i i still uh think that would be a very unfair way to characterize the country uh just like in america we have we have our our long-standing racist generations and uh to characterize america simply by those people is is utterly unfair so all right of course fox So, by the way, was your character represented in that HBO Roger Ailes? You were, right? Yeah.

He looks a little bit like you. Yeah. I drank beers with him, which is a weird... I was the only person he's played that he had a drink with. But Emery Cohen was the actor. TJ has to leave. He's doing a showdown. Take it easy,

TJ. Thanks. Fox News was always considered quite conservative, right? And Fox News was always considered unreliable and blah, blah, blah. There were documentaries called Outfoxed, you know, more than 10 years ago with O'Reilly.

However, at that time, this is around the time that you were involved with Fox News. I found Fox News quite good. Not that I didn't know that they were conservative and not that I didn't understand what I was watching. But I felt Fox News presented a pretty good debate. You know, these shows would have credible people from different points of view. I thought O'Reilly's show was interesting, notwithstanding the fact that he was kind of a blowhard. Charles Krauthammer was on Fox News.

Fred Barnes and Morton Kondracki. There were a lot of interesting people on Fox News. And now, it's to me, utterly unwatchable. I mean now it's to me, utterly unwatchable. I mean, it's, it's, it's not as unwatchable, but it has a lot to be feel guilty about it. It spreads anti-vaccine disc. I mean,

obviously false anti-vaccine information dressed up in innuendo. It was insufficiently factual about this election fraud stuff. And I know I'm talking a lot. And I attribute it in my mind to the fact that warts and all, and this is where you're going to tell me I'm wrong, hopefully, or tell me where I'm wrong, that no matter what he was in certain regards, that Roger Ailes valued a good debate. That was the feeling I always got about Fox News, that Roger Ailes liked to see a debate that was fair and have good people on both sides of the debate. And now Fox News couldn't care less about that.

What do you think about all that? That's my impression as a viewer. Tell me where I'm wrong or I'm right. There's a lot of truth to that. One, I would say this hasn't been explored enough but i think roger's downfall i think was in part i think his the moment where his downfall began was there was a republican primary debate where uh trump criticized megan kelly he said something very awful about megan kelly uh maybe you remember uh blood and blood everywhere like as if she's having her period yeah exactly and roger i think was the next morning

defended megan kelly and came out against trump and he was he had not been a uh he already was and i wasn't there at the time but i was just observing from the sidelines he you know he was already skeptical of trump at that point. And there was a power play then between them. And Trump won that. And that's when Roger lost his power. And I think that there's more to the story there about his downfall. It's not so simple with Gertrude Carlson and all that.

How did Trump win it? So Roger publicly challenged Trump and said, you need to apologize to Megyn Kelly. And Trump said, no, I won't. And that was when the balance shifted. All of a sudden, Trump said, I am now the decider. Because I think Roger's great power up until then, vis-a-vis a Republican, was he could prevent people from becoming president. More so than even making someone the candidate or nominee. He could prevent people. And he tried to prevent Trump at that point,

and he publicly challenged Trump, and Trump said, sorry, no, you're wrong. And that's when Fox began to lose its power, I think, with the Republican base, and people shifted toward Trump. And then it was a few months later that Roger was forced. Did we lose the sound?

We lost your sound. No sound, Joe. Oh, sorry. Roger Ailes came back from the dead to squelch you. Yeah, maybe so. It's, you know, I say, I mean, I probably, I've been Roger's only friend, probably, in Confidant. But I left because I, it was, he wanted me to become just like him and to have, I was losing my moral compass completely.

In what way? Tell us, in what way were you losing your moral compass? Because they wear you down. So Roger always wanted my moral approval for all the decisions he made at Fox. But he wanted my moral approval while changing my definition of what was right and wrong. And part of this way, I mean, I was, it was a weird day. I was his protege. Uh, but I also, uh, like Monday through Wednesday, I edited two small newspapers in the Hudson Valley that he owned.

And so at that level, I got to see how he didn't know what journalism was. Uh, and he would try to get me to manipulate the news just because of his personal whims, he and his wife in, in, in the Hudson Valley and who their enemies were. They'd always be attacking people. In the HBO show, they cover that. They cover that, yeah, yeah, yeah. I could have finished watching that show, by the way, when there was this serial Russell Crowe playing Roger

is talking to Emery playing me about my childhood. And I said, this is too weird. And that was the last bit I watched of the show. And unfortunately, because it took Russell Crowe so long to get in the fat suit every day, all the makeup, they had to cut a bunch of episodes. So they cut my car chase escape, which is the only thing I really wanted to be on screen. I thought pretty amazing car chase escape from uh from news corp security but that didn't make it into the show uh news corp security um uh part of it was um roger was afraid when i

when i said i wanted to quit he said you can't go because i you know he thought i knew too much uh and they were weirdly attached and focused on me and he was afraid maybe that I would somehow, I don't know. So, I don't put you on the spot, but can you give us a good, like, give us a good illustration of the amoral aspect of Fox at that time? Something they reported that just wasn't true

or, you know. I mean, this was a day, this was in the days when glenn beck was working at fox for example and uh uh beck was reporting pretty heavy you know going after the white house pretty strong obama white house pretty strongly and uh uh then this is maybe this doesn't fit into the universe of simple boxes in American political thinking. But Roger made a deal with the Obama White House on their news coverage.

And that was one of the big arguments I had with him. I said, this is not journalism if you agree not to cover things. They made a pro Obama deal. Yeah, yeah. David Axelrod came to meet with Roger at Fox News. It was the only meeting i was pulled out of uh and after what i went to roger said well why why did you exclude me from that um and uh not long after that he got rid of glenn beck who i mean uh glenn beck can be you know a wild card but uh but um but he was he would actually do homework, more so than a lot of the other people at Fox.

And Catherine Herridge was a great reporter, too. But Beck would try to do his homework, and he was looking into too many things. And that was the same problem when I was editing my newspaper owned by Roger in the Hudson Valley. I was investigating a republican state senator who had dirt on everyone including people in congress people in albany and new york and that's how he had been in power for decades and roger had wanted me to investigate this guy and i did and then i really started to uncover stuff and then that's when roger stopped me and then i

realized that he didn't he didn't care well actually i think roger was the most fearful person i've ever met in my life uh he was afraid of everything and that's why he had to build up this power uh apparatus uh but he stopped me from investigating uh that local politician yep oh so this is interesting so because most people and i were probably perceiving that you thought Roger Ailes was dishonest from a right wing point of view. But actually, you're saying that he he was felt repelled from Glenn Beck, who was actually to the right of. So Glenn Beck, I remember, got in trouble for saying something with racial overtones about Obama, called Obama a racist or something like that. And he got in trouble for that. And I think he had to apologize even.

And in retrospect, that's nothing compared to the stuff that Tucker Carlson says every night right now. Yeah, yeah. And Tucker, by the way, is a huge promoter of Russia in this time, which is, I mean, this is a side note, but they were just said and Tucker appeared by a video link. They were at a conference in Budapest two or three weeks ago. All these American conservatives with Putin's only ally pretty much in the world.

And yeah, it's yeah. And Tucker speaks speaks without any facts, and at least for banks. There's no bioweapons labs in Ukraine owned by Hunter Biden? That's not true? Yeah, I'm calling you from one right now. And this isn't the ridiculousness of American discourse, but Tucker does, and they don't take the time to investigate things but hunter biden uh worked with a ukrainian energy firm but that firm was run by uh a member of the government of yanukovych which was evicted by the people of ukraine in 2014 so it's not

ukrainian company it's a pro-Russian company whose CEO is based in Moscow. It's so strange that, you know, Paul Manafort, Trump's, you know, was his campaign director for a while, worked with Yanukovych people. So the people that Ukrainians said, we want you to get out of our country, Trump's guy worked them and biden's son worked with with with with the same people these are the people that ukrainians said please leave in 2014 um so so what you're saying actually lines up with what my impression was that um i'd say that i would i say that roger ailes was uh motivated you know he had a conservative, but he was enthralled with ideas. He had a conservative agenda because he believed that conservatism was demonstrably correct and was ready to have that debate and thought he could prevail on the facts of that debate. And he wanted to show

America that. And I would even say that he understood that the way you convince people is by defeating formidable debate adversaries, not by just having shills. And it seems to me the current Fox News, whoever runs it, the Murdoch's, whatever, they couldn't care less about ideas. It's purely ratings and money. I don't imagine Roger Ailes embracing anti-vax sentiment the way Fox did. I hope that he wouldn't have. I don't know how you feel about that, but I feel like he was way, way straighter. And I understand he was a creepy guy and what he did to women and all that. That's all another matter.

And I wouldn't lift a finger to defend him on any of that. But just as a viewer, I mean, I just can't express how awful Fox is and how much better I thought it was when Roger Ailes ran it well that's part of it in sense you know in my darker moments I've had regrets you know if I had just stuck with it but um yeah I there were times when Roger would try to confide in me confide in me his regrets and and and how he wanted to do things in a different way maybe but i was so much like him that i was unable to be a friend to him in those moments um i was only i was 24 25 but i was very very much similar to him and he would he would try to say hey joe uh you know i think i made some mistakes here and i'd say oh no this is a

weird conversation everything's great you remember any of the mistakes you thought he made he thought he no my mistake was that I didn't let those conversations happen he would try to confide or start to talk about these things and I was so much

like him maybe even worse that I didn't know how to be a friend to him. Whereas now, everything I've learned and the stuff that's happened since I escaped, you know, if I was then who I am now, it would have been different. But I needed to transform myself. And that's been the process of this past decade. What network should one watch?

What news network do you watch? Nothing. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if it's a healthy format. I think that's why, you know, podcasts like yours are better. I mean, people can actually have a conversation. Democracy is not possible without conversation. I don't think the cable, yeah, i don't think it's good for us

they're all terrible i i'm hopeful that this guy zazlov is that his name uh who's taking over cnn who i i know uh i've heard from like two degrees or one degree of separation of a friend of his um is a serious guy i'm hoping that they will uh do do something with CNN to make it something that smart people who are not extremely partisan will be interested to watch to get the bottom of things. I don't know, Dan, what news do you watch, Dan? What news? I don't watch the news. You don't watch

the news? No, not really. I go on Twitter and see what people are saying. Oh, that's a good, reliable person. Or then click articles from that. It's better than Perrielle she gets it from memes Alright sir well That's about it I really appreciate you taking the time

I'm very moved by Your personal bravery Are you still paying bills Over there in America No I've checked out I've checked out. I've checked out from America these past two years. And I don't know. I'll return after victory for Ukraine.

Do you have any residents in America that you have to pay rent to? No, I got rid of. I just started shedding all these things these past two years. And no. In fact, I let my brother borrow my car i think i think he might have lost it i haven't even seen photographic evidence of it in a while so uh yeah losing a car but sooner or later you'll get back to the states you come back to new york we'd love to host you at the Comedy Cellar one night and you can tell the real stories. The stuff's too hot for podcasts. But God willing,

be safe. And we'd love to meet you sometime in New York. It'd be great. I would love to tell you some of the entertaining stories, like the weekend at Chuck Norris' house with Roger and no food. Go ahead. You want to tell it or is that something you don't want to?

I could tell her if you want, but it's – Chuck invited Roger and his wife and their kid and me for a weekend because we were down visiting George and Barbara Bush, as it happens in Texas, normal life in that world. And that's another story. But so we get to the lone wolf ranch this is very dangerous i've told the story in bars to friends but never you know you know it's very dangerous to talk about chuck norris of course and um and and that's the thing it's like

going to meet santa claus because like chuck is a real guy like i guess saint nicholas was but he's also a myth because of the Chuck Norris facts. And, you know, so we get to his ranch. We have a nice conversation in his living room, which is covered with pixelated pictures of Jesus and guns and bazookas and all kinds of stuff. And normally it's a nice custom when you're invited to someone's house, you know, they give you some snacks or something. And there was nothing. And Roger liked to eat. We all ate a lot.

We actually ate breakfast burritos as our driver was bringing us to the ranch. But we sat there in the living room for two hours and no food. And then it's about 1230, and Chuck's like, let's go fishing. And I'm thinking, oh, yeah, Chuck's like, let's go fishing. And I'm thinking, oh, yeah, Chuck's Chuck Norris's house. You have to catch. You got to catch your lunch. That's what it is. So we go fishing, which is not a Roger Ailes pastime. And there was no one caught anything. And the next hours were pure delirium because we were so hungry because we were i mean when we were at on sixth avenue at the news court building we would have we would have breakfast like in the car on the motorcade on the way to the building the chef would come down we'd have second breakfast there's

a secret danish locker which is another story we just ate all the time and uh that's also a commentary i think on our emptiness but so i was at Chuck Norris' ranch, no food. We go horseback riding, and Roger couldn't get on the horse. Chuck couldn't because he's got two fake hips. The wives had no interest in riding the horse. So, Roger's kid was like 12 years old at the time.

He gets on a horse. I get on a horse. And Chuck says, this is so bizarre, I can't believe I'm telling this on on the on air but mr morris says whatever you do don't say the name of the president of the united states to my horse okay i wasn't going to do it but now i definitely won't uh and it was president obama at the time and so roger's little kid then like 10 or 12 years old, he gets on the horse. And the first thing he says, Obama.

And the horse goes nuts. Like it's trying to get rid of this little turd that's on the horse. And the kid said, Obama. And all of a sudden, it's like that scene in Anchorman with the cats flying over the bridge or something. The kid is flying through the air. And he lands. Chuck can't run after him because he's got two fake hips. I knew his weakness.

And Roger can't run. The wives are just in their own, you know. And so I ran to make sure the kid was okay, and he was inches from hitting the metal railing. Fortunately, he made it uh and then more and more hours like chuck took me to uh his a barn full of uh unsold total gems and and it was this weird delirium because we had there was no it's now like four or five p.m no food had been offered we'd arrived at 10 in the morning nothing and at one point uh maybe a couple hours later uh mrs ailes uh asked mrs norris like are we gonna eat and she might as well have said like

is there a hamburger sunshine on tuesday she didn't understand the question like about food and um and mrs ailes got angry they said, okay, we'll get some barbecue. And so, great, food's on the way, but we're in the ranch in the middle of nowhere, so it takes an hour and a half, and this little bag of barbecue takeout shows up, and all of a sudden, all of these people show up, ranch hands, nannies. All of a sudden, there's tons of people at the kitchen table, and we have to share this tiny snack. They pull out their Bibles and start talking about the apocalypse. And Roger and I are, you know, how far would you dare to roll your eyes in Chuck Norris' kitchen?

And I'm looking at Roger, and we're like, this is pretty weird, man. And then we watched, he's got a full movie theater. We watched The Blind Side, but no popcorn. Unsweetened iced tea, but no popcorn. And then Chuck's like, okay, bedtime, everyone. So I'm sleeping two rooms down from Chuck Norris. I can't sleep. I just hear the chime on the front porch of the ranch.

And, you know, in my mind, I'm thinking of all the Chuck Norris jokes and facts about different ways to die. And so I get up quite early, like, I don't know, 630 or so. mind i'm thinking of all the chuck norris jokes and facts um about different ways to die and um so i get up quite early like i know 6 30 or so i creep downstairs i'm sneaking around chuck norris's house like i would feel weird sneaking around like a distant aunt's house you know this is this is it was it was it was hilarious and scary at the same time. So I go downstairs. Roger and his wife are in the living room and they look stricken because it was very dramatic for Roger. He whispers to me, he's like,

Chuck and Gina, they're still asleep. You go in the kitchen. Look for some food. We'll keep watch. And he promised me that he would keep watch. And by the way, if anyone's listening, this is all just a Chuck Norris fact. It's all, it's just jokes. I'm making it up.

Shit. And so I go into the kitchen and I guess it's like maybe 730 in the morning. And there are two kids are running around, probably scrambling for food because I don't know if they're allowed to eat either. And and my heart's racing. Part of me is laughing. The other part is actually quite terrified. And now because I haven't eaten, I've barely eaten in 24 hours. I'm a little bit delusional. Maybe this is like a security mechanism to keep your guests weak. If you're Chuck Norris. um and so finally i find a pantry i open it up and there's to me at least it seemed there are these clear plastic uh containers of

cereal but they all look even i'm like great if i take one flake of cashew chuck norris is going to know because he's chuck norris but i don't care i'm so hungry all we have is soy milk uh soy milk at fox news you can't drink soy milk of course you know for liberals whatever i had to sacrifice and i pulled a bowl of cereal and i have i put the spoon in i'm so happy i'm about to eat and then i hear someone coming down the steps great it's all gonna get roundhouse kicked like into like 1926 or something and i like i'm ready to eat and then it was i think it was worse than chuck it was his wife she comes down into the kitchen and she stares at me like like i had just like strangled their cat or something which i was roger and i

were talking like like they got animals here can we kill kill something to eat it? And she's staring at me, and I just take a bite in defiance. And she shakes her head with a complete and utter disgust. And she walks into the living room, and I'm like, great. She's going to grab one of the bazookas off the wall and blow my brains out because I ate a bowl of cereal. But she just disappeared the rest of the day. And we sat in the living room talking about how Mike Huckabee would be the best and most perfect holy president of the world or something. And then our driver, who worked for the Bushes, finally showed up to rescue us. Like at 5 o'clock in the evening, mail food was offered the whole day. And she had all these, like, cupcakes and Sonic milkshakes.

And I guess maybe she knew that they don't feed people. I don't know if it was fat camp. I don't know what it was. It was weird. And so Roger was in such distress. He calls the pilot of the News Corp plane and says, send the flight attendant out to get 15 Subway meatball sandwiches, which we ate in the flight home, which ruined all the effects of the fat camp. But that was a weird life. That is a crazy story.

That's nuts. Have you heard from Chuck Norris since? No, but maybe once you publish this, I will. We got it. Well, his wife knows what you did because she was a wit. Maybe she didn't. She was a wit. Did you know know we could talk another time maybe did you know charles krauthammer i did because i went to the weekly standard when you mentioned fred barnes he was my first boss

uh fred barnes and bill crystal so i knew him not very well but a little bit i would sometimes uh deliver manuscripts to his house when 20, 2006. Yeah. But I didn't, I never had a good conversation with him. My impression of him is that he was a, as a great man.

Is he, is that your impression as well? Yeah, I would say so, especially from the people I knew who knew him well. And yeah, he had true gravitas and, and I, I miss his words.

He was, I think all this stuff we're trying to navigate now uh his mind uh we need we need minds like that to navigate the mess we're in now it's a good illustration of how fox has changed because i would say that at the time he was active on fox right up until the time he got sick and laura ingram came on that came he was basically considered the intellectual voice of fox news he was basically considered the intellectual voice of Fox News. He was the most profoundly respected voice on Fox News. And now I don't even know if he could keep a spot on Fox News.

He would probably have quit. All right. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, you're right. I think you would have. And they don't have a leader at Fox. What's interesting, and it should be said that to the left, as it were, or people center and left, they don't distinguish.

They see Fox as Fox. It was the same Fox with Charles Krauthammer and same Fox now. And that is profoundly untrue. There's the whole cast of characters that Fox rode to success. I think the overwhelming majority would not be comfortable on the Fox that exists today. Anyway, it was really a pleasure to meet you, and

like I said, I hope someday to meet you in person and be safe. We're out of time. Thank you very, very much, sir. Thank you. And Peril, thank you for all the great work you're doing with Odessa Peace Fund and the Hummingbird Foundation. Thank you.

Fantastic. I've met people who've benefited from that here. Oh, wow. We'll talk more on Instagram. We'll finish our conversation. We have another fundraiser comedy show. We do? On June 13th.

Wait, at the Cellar? No, not at the Cellar, but on June 13th, which is also another fundraiser for Ukraine. Great. Thank you, Joe Lindley. Thank you. Lindsley. Thank you. Lindsley. the seller but on june 13th which is also another fundraiser for ukraine great thank you joe lindley thank you lindley don't put botchina from ukraine it's a tough thank you all right well that was interesting and what do you have to say for yourself mr dorman what are you talking about? Why is there dead silence? She just ends.

No, no, don't end. You gave me so much shit when I walked in here. Like, do you want to at least acknowledge your behavior or anything of that nature? Does every female in my life have to talk to me this way? Well, I mean, you you know you can always rely on nicole to treat you with respect okay just i'll let the record show i didn't remember who joel linds lindsley was and because i said pearl who's this guy she goes there's somebody you wanted on

the show i'm like when did i want him on the show she says before covid i'm like before covid that was years ago like like ago like talk about expiring but I couldn't remember he was the guy but you were short with me and you were not very nice in your tone and I did email you I'm talking to the mic Jesus Christ. I'm talking to the mic and I did email you

Yes you did. My memory is bad. So just be like a little bit less you know. But no Perrie. Okay, so just be like a little bit less, you know. But, no, Perio, please note that after a certain time, you need reauthorization, I think it's fair to say. I'd say after, you know. Six months left. Certainly after, you know, if Noam wants something that's time sensitive,

you should get reauthorization. This is the pollster who said Trump was going to win. But I said that he would be super interesting. But you didn't get reauthorization. No is the pollster who said Trump was going to win. But I said that he would be super interesting. But you didn't get reauthorization. No, but that's not... He turned out to be interesting. Okay. Well, look, as far as... Look, I don't know... I don't understand that this is actual

bravery, this Ukraine thing. I mean... But it's also a little nuts. He said himself that he might be a little nuts. Well, did I see a military jacket that he was wearing? Is he a military guy? Because some of those guys, they live for this shit. Well, that's what I said.

You know, and they miss it. I said that I think, you know, he's got like a little of that like Michael Moynihan vibe, like that like adrenaline. Well, Michael Moynihan is not. Listen, anybody who risked their lives, you got to respect. I shouldn't say that, but I respect him. Yeah, he's great. Well, I don't know how the folks on Raw Dog will, whether they

enjoyed it or not, but people are interested in Ukraine. And the Fox News thing is interesting too because... The Fox News, I don't think, was a little bit of a lesser, less interesting. It's interesting to me. No, it's interesting. It is interesting. It's wild. me. No, it's interesting. It is interesting.

It's wild. I mean, that Chuck. I'm not going to ask Nicole, but. Sleeping. Yeah. So I guess we'll wrap it up. Okay. I wasn't, there was one observation

about the whole Fox News thing, which is interesting. It's what I said at the end is that to the Fox News haters, they see Fox as a continuous evil entity. And it shows how shallow they are because actually there's clearly two Fox news is there's, there was the Fox news before Roger Ailes and the Fox news after Roger Ailes and the two could not even coexist.

The people who, who were the main voice on Fox news, then hate the people who were the main voice on Fox News then hate the people who are the main voices now. Anyway, so, all right, that's it. Podcast at ComedySeller.com. You have comments, questions, suggestions. You want to hire the maestro of the mixing board for your own sound needs, you can also contact us through Podcast at comedy seller.com and keep an eye

out for it's a fader frow line at the comedy seller. We have debates. We have not just comedy. We have, well, we have debates. We have discussions. We have live podcasts, all sorts of things, podcasts at comedy seller.com for all your uh comments and suggestions thank you so much we'll see you next time bye everybody