The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Josh Johnson

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

Josh Johnson is a stand-up, Emmy-nominated writer, performer, and NAACP award-winner from Louisiana by way of Chicago. He is currently a writer on The Daily Show, and is a former writer and performer on The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, where he made his late-night debut. Johnson is Comedy Central’s ‘most watched comedian ever’ with 40M+ views to date across their platforms. His new special, Up Here Killing Myself, is available on Peacock. 

This is Live from the Table, a Comedy Cellar-affiliated podcast coming at you on SiriusXM 99 Raw Dog and the Laugh Button Podcast Network. My sound is all messed up. I like the way it sounds. Okay. No, but in my ears, it's all messed up. That's your self-esteem. Anyway, we're waiting.

Well, that's messed up, too. Let me. Now you're messing up my sound. You're loud. Oh, brother. Hello? Hello? Now I can't hear any oh my god it's like it's like it's like doing a podcast with burns and alan okay yeah but all right should we start over no i like it go ahead okay so uh we're waiting on josh johnson who is i haven't seen him in a while where's he been i don't know you'll ask him when you get okay i guess i'll ask him when i get here i haven't seen him in a while. Where's he been? I don't know. You'll ask him when you get there. Okay, I guess I'll ask him when I get here.

I haven't seen him in a while, but he'll be here. But we do have with us Noam Dorman, the owner, the proprietor of the world-famous comedy cellar, the arguably greatest comedy club in America, in the world, perhaps. It's been called that, and I don't think that's... You guys want to hear something that's fun? I'm just reading about this now. It's great to live in the 21st century. So, you know, there's this Fox News lawsuit. We talked about it last week with Ilya Shapiro.

And don't confuse my opinion. I'm not defending the duplicitousness of Fox News and, you know, whatever was going on. But there's larger principles, just like when you defend the Nazis' right to march, it doesn't mean you're defending the Nazis. You're defending certain principles. So I had this theory about why I thought Fox shouldn't lose the case based on what I know. I'm like, well, why is nobody saying this? And we had Ilya on last week, and I didn't really get a clear answer from him either, like where I was going wrong.

So I looked up the law firm that defends Fox. Yeah. And I found the lead counsel. I said, fuck it. I'm just going to email this guy what I think. So when I put a mail tracker on it, you know, you can do this where you can track who opens your email or not. So I just

sent this email out to this guy. It's two paragraphs to this guy. I don two paragraphs to this guy. I don't want to say the law firm, but you have public information. I sent it to him. And then, lo and behold, this email was opened six times over a five-hour period yesterday,

implying that maybe it was sent forwarded or maybe he opened it six times. But whatever it is, somebody looked at this email six times yesterday. Now, I don't know. Maybe they say, get a load of this. Let me read that dumb email again. Can you believe this?

I mean, I don't know what that means. Well, what did you say in the email? I'm not going to go into that. But the point is that not that long ago, that kind of interjection into a national thing, it was just like you could just sit at your desk and say, let me see who's this. And just boom, you just send him an email. And then you can check that he read it.

And you can follow the email, too. Anyway, so that, you know, I live for these things. I know. You're so excited. Well, maybe you'll change the case. I didn't introduce, of course, Periel, our producer. Thank these things. I know. You're so excited. Well, maybe you'll change the case. I didn't introduce, of course, Periel, our producer. Thank you. Here I am.

And producer. So that's what she is. She's a producer. And then another thing happened. So do you remember when we had Benjamin Wittes on? And he looked down the end of his nose with his glasses at us when I was saying I thought Ukraine was more likely responsible for the bombing of the Nord pipeline. Right. They say, no, only a major state could synchronize a high-tech operation.

I go, well, why would Russia bomb its own pipeline when Ukraine would want the pipeline? Remember, I say, well, you don't understand international relations. I'm not being totally fair to him, but I'm not being unfair. Right. And sure enough, in the New York Times yesterday, I'm not being totally fair to him, but I'm not being unfair. And sure enough, in the New York Times yesterday, all the intelligence believes now that it was a Ukraine-oriented group that bombed the pipeline. You like those clips I sent you, huh? Yeah. And the same thing with that dumbass Will Wilkinson, where he was like, yeah, COVID can easily be stopped if we just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And that didn't work out so well either. Well, maybe you should have more confidence in yourself. And maybe some of these experts we invite on are not so expert. Well, I didn't mention the ones I was wrong about then. Did you all do your homework assignment? It wasn't an officially a homework assignment, but I suggested, strongly so, that everybody watch Chappelle's special. You mean Chris Rock's?

Chris Rock's special. But you can also watch Chappelle's special. Edit that out. Edit that out. Comedian, racist comedian, Dan Aderman. Well, you could look at it that way. You could just look at it as those are the two biggest acts right now. Why would anybody look at it that way? Okay. But anyway, I suggested those are the two biggest acts right now. Why would anybody look at it that way? Okay.

But anyway, I suggested that. I did watch it. I watched the last 20 minutes of it. I watched the first 40 minutes of it. Selective outrage is what it's called. It tops Netflix top 10. I sampled the first part. I was in a hurry, but I'd heard those jokes, most of them.

Workshopped here? Yeah, workshopped there. But the last 20 minutes, by all accounts, is when he got truly intense. And absolutely, it's true. I mean, you see it in his face. That's not method acting. I mean, he was really feeling the emotion of what he was saying. I found it very powerful.

When he was talking about Will Smith, the slap heard around the world. Yeah. Also, also the part about his mother having to have her tooth removed by a vet. Oh, in the old days, where a black woman couldn't go to a white dentist. When a black woman couldn't go to a white dentist and all the progress. I mean, he didn't say the word progress, but that's the implication of now his daughter is sipping coffee in culinary school in Paris and his mother flies out to meet her every so often. I found that extremely moving. And whether he meant it to be or not, I'm sure he has ambivalence about it. In a certain way, one can't deny it was a positive note about America, even if at the same time it's highlighting a negative thing about America. You know, that kind of progress in one person's lifetime

is astounding and maybe unprecedented in the history of any country. Not that I'm any kind of expert in world history, but it's probably unprecedented in any country in the world. Periel, thoughts? Is there a new GOAT? Can we declare Chris Rock the GOAT of stand-up? Was Chappelle previously the GOAT? Well, I don't think there's such a thing as a GOAT, quite honestly. I think it's just a silly notion because there's so many different comedians doing so many different kinds of things.

No, I'm not going to declare anybody the GOAT. But— You know, I think there's many comedians that are very, very good. But, you know, people have said that. But one has to give Chris these props. He didn't talk about it for a year or very little. He orchestrated, or it turned out that way and maybe wasn't orchestrated, a very, very powerful, I mean, a live thing on Netflix, holding it off until then. I mean, the whole world is talking about this.

Right. In a way, they wouldn't have been if it hadn't been a live show. I saw some dumb reviews like, why did it have to be live? But it's very powerful that it's live because a live event. Did you see it live? I didn't see it live. No. I watched part of it live.

I thought, yeah, I thought that the way that he handled this was really impressive and kind of brilliant. There was a part in the special where he said, everybody's a victim now, right? Like, but there are all these people with like paper cuts, I think that saying, Oh,

I'm a victim. And he really took this and he, um, really flipped it in like the best way possible, especially for, you know, a comic or him specifically. Yeah. I, I thought the whole thing was pretty fucking impressive, especially for a comic or him specifically.

Yeah, I thought the whole thing was pretty fucking impressive including the fact that the whole world is... Beyond the performance, the strategy of the whole thing and that it all came together and it all worked is pretty impressive. You can't lay a glove on this guy. This is flawless execution. Well, he was told to keep Will Smith's wife's name out of his mouth,

which he did not do during the special, so I don't know that there will be any repercussions, I suspect. Oh, yeah, and when he was calling Will Smith a bitch, that was intense.

He called him a bitch? Did you watch this? Yeah, I watched it. He called him a bitch like six or seven times. Okay, all right. Well, he's saying that people Will Smith a bitch? That was intense. He called him a bitch? Did you watch this? Yeah, I watched it. He called him a bitch like six or seven times. Okay, all right. Well, he was saying that people called him a bitch. No, he was talking about all the other people that were calling him. Yeah, but the way he was doing it was obviously that he was calling him a bitch.

He was like, I'm not. And he called you a bitch. And then he said what everybody has been saying for a year is that, but he hit me because I'm small. Because I'm smaller than he is, which is what people have been saying all year. He says, Will Smith played Muhammad Ali. You may find it shocking. I didn't even audition for that.

Josh Johnson, I barely recognize. Well, let's get Josh's take on it. Well, first let me introduce Josh, I guess. All right, I have to go. Go ahead. I got to go on a date in college, which was big for me. I don't get to go on a lot of dates because I don't know how to talk to people. But the date was good.

We went to dinner and then went to a movie and then we went back to my place okay and guys guys I'm gonna go there with you okay I'm gonna I'm gonna get a little nasty all right we were kissing okay we were kissing all right but then in the middle of kissing she told me that she wanted me to choke her. Now, I don't know about you guys, but I have arthritis in my hands. So I couldn't talk up how I was about to choke her. I'm about to choke her.

She's about to find out about me, you know? So I was trying to talk up how bad I was going to choke her. I'm about to choke her. She's about to find out about me, you know? So I was trying to talk up how bad I was going to choke her and make her feel like she was still into it, you know? So I was like, baby, I'm going to choke you, all right? Because that's what you want, because that's what you need. But it will feel like a turtleneck. There's nothing I can do about that. No, baby, you're going to get choked. You ask me, it's choking time, okay?

I'm even going to shake your head and scream in your face while I choke you. But you will feel safe the entire time. You will feel totally safe. There's nothing I can do about that. Well, Josh Johnson is apparently a big deal. He's a stand-up. I mean, I know him from here, but he's an Emmy-nominated writer, performer, NAACP Award winner from Louisiana by way of Chicago,

currently writing on The Daily Show. Comedy Central's most-watched comedian ever, with 40 million views today to cross their platforms. His new special, Up Here Killing Myself, is available on Peacock. That's the intro. He has the same bio as Paul Mercurio, except Paul Mercurio did win the Emmy. Well, I don't think.

And the last I saw Josh Johnson. I try not to think about the Emmy. If we may talk, before we get into Chris Rock, if we may, the last time I saw Josh Johnson, he looked completely different. And I'm not sure I would recognize him. His hair. A lot of people did not. I recognize his voice.

Deeply hurtful. When you think about it, I had an afro and then I had my hair braided. It's not like I had a beard. It was still my whole face. I don't think you look that different. No, but

no one recognized me. White people and black people? Everybody. We're like, oh, oh, it's you. I was like, oh, jeez. It took me a second. I clearly haven't been making any pressure. Well, I knew it was you because you're the guest today and you walked in. Yeah.

But had, so I figured, well, that's got to be Josh Johnson. Yeah. But if we were downstairs. If we were downstairs, I would have said, I wouldn't, may not recognize, quite possible I would have said. Seems like a nice guy. Yeah, name's Josh. He talks a lot like Josh Johnson. Well, as soon as you open your mouth, I would have said, I wouldn't, may not be regular. It's quite possible I would have said. Seems like a nice guy. Yeah, name's Dan. Talks a lot like Josh Johnson.

Well, as soon as you open your mouth, I would know it was Josh Johnson. Okay, there we go. Because your voice is exceedingly distinct. I think there's something about the way the mind works, that it files things in ways to make it easy to recall. So if you've got a big afro, then that just becomes like the shorthand for Josh Johnson, you know yeah and then but you don't just have a big afro you also don't have like a huge nose or a scar

or like other than that your face is pretty i've i've been called mild you know the the this one this one i didn't even know how i feel about it for quite a while my buddy called me an artist's rendering of a black person. And I was like, jeez. And I don't know. So many people didn't recognize me that I don't know if I can say he was wrong. I recognize him. By the way, I don't know. Much like with Jews, I don't know that you're supposed to talk about noses and black people. As with Jews, there is a kind of...

No, I wasn't talking about black people's noses. I'm saying you don't have a huge nose or a scar. I understand that. If you had stopped at nose, it would have been weird. If you had just been like, you have a big nose. Anyway, what else is going on? Just to be clear, I didn't slightly mean it as a classic black

feature. I just meant things that, like I said, a thing that somebody could have on their face, which would replace the afro in terms of something you remember. No, you were just listing things. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's fair enough, but I'm just saying that's how I, like if you're talking about a Jewish person and talking about their nose, I would say easy, easy does it. To be fair, black people aren't even known for big noses. They're known for like flatter noses, right?

Yeah, like wide noses. Wide, wide for flatter noses, right? Wide noses. But wide is a form of big, I think. No. Anyway, so this is very important. Because I have to go, I won't rewind the whole thing, but I just said some very positive things about Chris Rock.

Not just about the way he performed, but also for the execution that culminated in this basically worldwide event and attention with the live. I mean, I could not be more impressed with the way he pulled this off. I don't know what your thoughts are on the whole. I think that it was very smart not to say anything right away

because then you don't want to say anything that it's it's already a situation where so many people are split so many different ways that you don't want to say anything quickly that's going to like solidify someone's opinion of how it happened and people actually want to get your take and i think withholding that take until you had a forum to say it that you also want to bring people to is the best possible. It's honestly like there are very few people who are, in comedy at least, they're incredibly good at promotion and making an event and then delivering on that event. And I feel like this was one of those times. Yeah. You know, because I think that, you know, for all of his like faults, insanity,

like all the stuff that's wrong with him, what like Kanye did with Donda was kind of like that. It's like, okay, everyone knows that my mental illness spiked when I lost my mom. This next album is not only dedicated to my mom, it's supposed to be like this whole like culmination of everything my mom and i went through and it's about her it's named after her it's like it's it's and i'm getting all my friends on it so it's got all these features and then we're going to do listening parties and we're going to do listening parties in arenas so

then you the audience get to decide what's going to end up on the final album and it just became this whole huge thing right and i think chris did a version of that with the slap where it's like you know as as a comic you have to test stuff out so he knew versions of jokes he might do about it were going to leak and it was all just enough to keep people talking and it was all just enough to like win people over more to what he might say because he said that i'm not a victim thing really early right right yeah you know so i think he's he had that uh on lock as far as like when you think of a special in the in recent years and you think of something around it to promote it there's been nothing like no did you say you heard some of the the uh will smith stuff workshopped here or was that all kind of a little bit a little bit i don't I don't remember specifically what I heard. He did talk a little bit about it here, but he never got intense.

Yeah, yeah. That was really something. That was powerful. In my opinion, that emotion was all real. I think it was real, yeah. Yeah, I think it was very real. Like, I wonder even, did he plan to throw the mic at the end, or was that just the way he felt?

I think it could be both. I think that he is now, I think it's been three specials where he's like, mic dropped at the end. This one included. He didn't just drop it. He threw it. No, I'm with you. I'm with you. I think he knew he was going to, like, do something with the mic at the end.

But, yeah, maybe throwing it was like, all right, this is like spur of the moment does that make sense because the tambourine he just like you know flicks it out of his hand and walks away uh but in this one I was like oh wow it was pretty riveting I I'm really really impressed with Chris Rock today I really like what you said about like getting all of your friends on it to like the comparison to donda because it's true and even when i did watch it live the first half of it and when ronnie chang was saying every comedian's here who's ever owed netflix a favor yeah, yeah. And all of Chris Rock's friends, and everybody had such beautiful things to say about him as they were opening for him,

and it was really nice like that. Yeah. Anyway, Josh, I'm having dinner tonight at an event with a baroness. I can't talk about it? You can talk about it. A baroness. And I got invited to this.

And I'm not going to lie and say I got invited just this week. But I never reconciled my calendar. And I realized that it was this week. And then I saw you were the guest. And you're one of my favorite people and one of my favorite guests ever. I'm like, oh, fuck, Josh. Oh, that was awful. He's going to be insulted.

No, no. In some way, I didn't think he was important enough to, but I would have actually canceled the podcast if I, but anyway, so that's it. So we made it a half an hour earlier so I could spend some time with you, but I'm not going to be able to stay. No, but we'll have you on again if you want to have it me, but

I'm sorry. Who's this Baroness? No, it's all good. The Baroness. How? I don't want to take time away from Josh Yeah let's hear about your special Forget Chris Rock Oh yeah We got plenty of time

Right up there with Chris Rock My special came out on Peacock a couple weeks ago And it is A split I turned to some interstitials At certain points Because the hour that I did came from an hour of talk therapy that I then sort of pulled everything out of it that was funny

and then you know wrote the bits to it and then made the show so then you'll see sort of in chunks the section will start with me in therapy either being asked a question or like talking about something where I'm not really sure how I feel and ending up on stage where not only do I know how I feel now but I actually have a joke and and a way to sum up the the entire idea and so yeah that's the that's the basic gist of it now there's an entrepreneurial entrepreneurial aspect to it which is he shot it you shot it yourself. Yeah. You took the financial risk. Yeah, yeah.

So I went to Jacob Inacci, who directed it, and we came up with a budget together and everything. Yeah. That's scary. No, it's terrifying. Yeah. Wait, so part of this is you in therapy? Yeah, yeah. With an actual therapist or with

like somebody that no no it's been recreated no no it's been recreated it was not my actual therapy session because i think that that would it's based would have been sad yeah yeah what is the demographic profile of your therapist if you don't mind me asking uh so i've had i've had many therapists uh and so this one this is the representation of me going to a white woman this is my thing with with whether it's like physical or mental right i personally like and it doesn't it's not the need you know like if like if i if something happens like if i get hit by a car i'll see anyone i'll see any doctor whatever but if i'm just going for the sake of going i i find i do like to go to a black doctor and if i can't get a black doctor i like to go to a woman the the reasons

for that is that i don't know if you've heard about this in medicine but there was a long-held belief that black people just felt less pain and like all all this other stuff so it's like at least a black doctor will be like oh i know what this is like when you're complaining to me about something. Well, a doctor, it's an intimate thing to be with a doctor. Yeah, yeah. I could understand why you'd want to be with somebody that you might feel a little closer to. Yeah, just shared experience.

And a therapist in particular. Yeah. Because a therapist knows your life better, you know. Yeah, yeah. Also, you know, I've seen Jewish therapists. I would be, you know, what if I know i've seen jewish therapy i would be you know what if i had an issue with that that was stereotypical like say i'm arguing with my boss about money and i want to talk about that in therapy well i would feel odd saying that to a non-jewish

there because i'd be in my mind he's thinking of these people yeah yeah you know what i'm saying so so as a black man going to a black therapist, I would think would be a lot better. Do you prefer a black man or a black woman for a therapist specifically? I do find that just in my life, black women tend to be right. So yeah, black woman helps the most.

But if it's just women in general, like physical or mental, I do find that the same way that there was the black thing of of, you know, not feeling pain or not being taken seriously or whatever. I think women also have that as well. So it's like when it's black woman's double fold. But like, for instance, I went to a doctor just to I had to get an injury checked out and she walked in and it was a pregnant white woman. And I was like, thank God. All right, you're going through a whole bunch of stuff that like, now all my pain seems valid. So your current therapist is a white woman?

My last therapist was. And your current? My current, I'm out of therapy right now. I'm in between therapists. I went to a, I have a black urologist who performed my disectomy. And apparently he thinks

that white men can't feel pain. Is he putting that to the test? Yeah. Oh God. No, no, he was great. But I would say just about the therapy, if I were you, like if I, I'm just, you know, I have no right to this opinion maybe,

but just I would want to go see a black woman. And this is my thought process. I wouldn't want to go see a white person, let alone a white woman, because if I want somebody to call me on my bullshit, and let's say, you know, part of that bullshit is, you know, I thought this was racist or whatever. No white therapist is going to dare question you.

They're just going to be so afraid, especially in today's climate. So you just like to remove that thing. So if somebody thinks that, you know, you're looking at it this way or whatever it is, only a black person would feel the total freedom to say that to you. And a woman, because a lot of things that you might be talking about might have to do with the opposite sex.

Sure. And I would always prefer to have a female therapist who understood what it is that the opposite sex is thinking than another dumb dude like me. Oh, I feel you. Bitch is out of her mind. Yeah. Right?

So I think I would go see a woman therapist. But the question is, how would I feel about going to see a black woman therapist? Would I think that would be an issue? I think it wouldn't be. I don't think it works the opposite way. I don't think it matters so much way. I don't think it matters. Is there anything you're uncomfortable or were uncomfortable talking to your white therapist about? Like, maybe I shouldn't talk about this in front of white folk kind of thing.

Not really. Because I feel like this is the thing, I guess, is that a lot of white people, especially when you're in a white country, tend to take all of their knowledge and be very academic with it. So not saying that there's no human element added to their therapy and how they work with patients, but they can be very direct because by and large, potentially, you talk about like 77% of the country or whatever is white,

a lot of the people will already have that shared experience built in, if that makes sense. And so then there wasn't anything that I was like particularly uncomfortable with because I was like, all right, let me just see if there's anything like wrong with me. So then I just lay it all out there. And then when you find out,

sometimes you're disappointed to find out there's nothing wrong. Like sometimes you're like, because it means that you're not as uh as you're in your thoughts unique as you thought you were right so there's there's some sort of so what brought you there if there was you know i mean oh no there was being told that there were certain things i was feeling that were normal or being told that there was like a way that i looked at things that was actually how most people look at it you know i mean getting that but what brought you to the therapist in the first place i'm saying

oh yeah yeah i just think okay i think that in the world there's problems right and if you aren't careful your problems become everyone else's problem or your problems become a deeper problem for you right and there's enough problems that we can't do anything about that i was like i don't want to do anything extra and so then that was the initial thing but like luckily i grew up in a family that this is like not necessarily indicative of like it's just not as common in a lot of black families but my family always believed in therapy and so they basically even when I was a kid, I went to a therapist for a little while, which is one of the things that encouraged me to go to a therapist later in life on my own, you know,

because it didn't seem stigmatized or weird to me. But you were probably always a kind of sensitive, very smart kid. Almost like the profile of a kid who goes to therapy like yeah yeah you're not wrong no yeah just fuck them yeah why no no because he's obviously gifted in some way and I know I'm with you

I was exactly that thing because even when I went to therapy I was like ah man I think like there were certain I've been to a couple therapists where I was like ah man I think like there were certain I've been to a couple therapists where I was like ah man I really I really could have sat down had a good think and missed this whole thing you gotta be because like especially when you've gone for a while and you like know some of your habits do you love going to therapy it depends it depends on the therapist yeah yeah

because I I actually look at going to therapy. This is just me personally. I look at therapy like going to the doctor. So I don't know if this is good or bad, but personally for me, I only go when I start to feel sick. Right. I don't just go for the sake of like, I'll just go 52 weeks out of the year.

Yeah, I don't really go for maintenance. I got to go. This is a fucking good conversation, and I got to go. No, we'll do it again. Well, I just want to hear a little bit about the Baroness and why, you know, I think that's of some interest. Let me read you the invitation

real quick. You don't want to be the first one to show up, either. No, but I don't want to be... I want to be on time. You want to be fashionably late. Introduce to our good friends Baroness Philippa Stroud, David Stroud,

Arthur Brooks, Philippa, a member of the British House of Lords, and David, a senior leader of Christ Church London, our founders of a forum, a London-based network of senior leaders, exists to serve senior leaders, influencers, and blah, blah, blah. A lot of mumbling going on. Because it's long. Build bridges across traditional sectors, boundaries, to create

community, to fight poverty. I don't know. It's like a. Why are you going to this thing? I was invited. But you get invited to things all the time. You usually say no. No, I don't usually say no. The woman who's doing it is a very good friend of mine. Oh, okay.

Yeah, good friend's doing it, and a baroness is going to be there. I don't know. I don't know what that means nowadays. I hear you can buy, like, for 50 bucks, you send away and you become, like, a lord in Scotland or something. Yeah, but that's a land thing.

That doesn't mean... It's a land thing. This is old money. I hung out with Princess Beatrice one night. From the Netherlands? No. Isn't it Beatrice, the red-headed one? She's related to the royal family in England.

She came to the altiary one night. Beatrice? Maybe. I don't know. And she's, like, three or more. I don't know. And she, like, three or more. I don't know. And she was just, like, a normal person. So, you know, it wasn't that big a deal.

Okay. Fine. Okay. Well, anyway, enjoy your dinner with the Baroness. Have a crumpet for me. I mean, now that Prince Harry is talking about applying lotion to his dick and thinking about his mother. I mean, yeah. You don't have quite the same esteem for the royal family.

No, the sheen off these people is really... Yeah, yeah, it's really brought them down a peg, you know? It was either going to be, like, an overall revolution or just Prince Harry's book. Hello, Baroness. I wonder if you'd like this vibrator. Yeah, yeah. Everybody getting real.

All right, thank you, Gnome Dorm, and having dinner with a Baroness. That's yeah. Everybody getting real. All right. Thank you, Noam Dorman, having dinner with a baronet. That's why he's dressed up. I guess you're going with one need, I assume. Yes. Good to see you. Lord, are they going to introduce you?

I'm the afro. Are they going to introduce you when you walk in? Brand new me. When you walk in, are they going to introduce you? Presenting, Lord, Noamome and Countess.

Anyway. I always only wanted a gay therapist, a gay male therapist. Really? The thing is, I... And I think that jackpot is a gay male black therapist. I don't know why that would be a jackpot. Is it just from life experience plus being a therapist? Yeah.

Like you're saying perspective plus therapist? Yes, yeah. Really? Okay. Like my OB, and this was not planned, but my OB when I was pregnant, obviously, was a gay black guy. But why does that make it, you felt that that was a superior choice? Yeah, I pregnant, obviously, was a gay black guy. And I was... But why does that make it... You felt that that was a superior choice?

Yeah, I do, actually. Because I think that there... I have had the experience on multiple occasions with straight male Jewish doctors, older white men. There's something a little bit condescending. Well, I don't think you need to go full on the opposite of that. How about just a woman doctor?

I've had horrible experiences with women doctors. I'm sorry. I've had great ones, too. But I feel like I'm going. I'm going. If that works for you. My main criteria is when I see the diploma on the wall, none of it is in Spanish. I don't want to see

Universidades de Guatemala. Yeah, but you know, here's the thing. We now go to Mexico to get the stuff done because we don't have health insurance. So it's like,

it's like those doctors are starting to look more and more appealing. Well, they might be good, but I still have my old world prejudices and I want to see. And you're and more appealing. Well, they might be good, but I still have my old world prejudices. And you're sticking to them. Well, because a lot of people go to med school.

Now, if you're from there, say you are from Mexico or Guatemala, as is the case in my example, and you went to school in Guatemala, I guess that makes sense. But Americans, oftentimes when they can't get into any med school in America, they will go to med school. Is it a little chilly in here, by the way? Oh, I don't... Oftentimes we'll go to med school overseas.

There's a med school in Granada, remember? There was like a war we fought over there because... Anyway... So you're worried about Americans in other countries getting their degrees and coming back? Because they couldn't get... Because a lot of times they couldn't get into any med schools in the United States. Yeah, but it won't be valid when they come back, right? I don't know how that works, but yeah, I think so.

No, no, I don't think that's right at all. I feel like I've had so many Uber drivers that used to be doctors. Well, I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure you can. You have to take the boards and pass the boards. Oh, that's what it is, yeah. So then the people you're talking about, if they try to come back and they already weren't good enough to get into med school here, a lot of times they don't pass the board when they come back. So I feel like this system is working, potentially.

I feel like if you can learn another language well enough to go to medical school. These schools are, I think, in English geared toward taking Americans' money. I don't think these are med schools that are in Spanish or in whatever language. I think these are med schools that have an English program for Americans because they want our money. It's absolutely cheating what he's talking about. Now that you've explained it, I totally see what you mean. For a second, I thought you just meant like, man, if my doctor's from Spain and he was a doctor, this is all...

Well, I guess what I said could have been misconstrued. I realize now you're talking about Americans who already tried and did not. Is that really a thing? That's a thing. Sure, it's a thing. It really is because I've known people who couldn't get into medical school

and so they just kept trying medical schools until they got into one. That's insane. Rather than just learning more. Right, rather than learning more. Yeah, they're like, oh, okay, I couldn't get into this school, this school, this school, this school, this school. And just truly going down because especially if you come from a family of doctors, there's maybe either going to be an inclination or expectation to become a doctor yourself and so now if you whether you were partying or whether you just haven't picked the right type of medicine or whether you just don't have the interest you're it's now time

to apply and you either don't have the grades or you don't have the like just the acumen overall and now it's like all right what do i do and do? And then you try, try, try, try, try. Then you go overseas and try to learn something. Anyway, Josh, if we could get back to your special. Oh, sure. Obviously, you don't hit the same topics as Chris Rock hit. Maybe you do hit some of the same topics. Wokeness, of course, is a big topic these days.

Yeah. I don't know if you hit that. What topics would you say some of the main ones that you hit are? I talked about not growing up with money. I talked about relationship with my dad and everything, losing my dad. And then I talked about how I had a stalker. Is a stalker recent? Not anymore, technically.

So luckily, by the time, a little while after I did the show, it was really winding down. But yeah. That's terrifying. Yeah, it was like, it was really rough. Was it a woman? I don't know who it was.

Because it was all happening like online. And it was someone who was like basically they were threatening me for quite a while and then they make they'd obviously make fake accounts because i was blocking the other oh that was a threat it wasn't just like i love you i want to have your baby no no it was like you're gonna bleed it's like it's like i'm gonna come kill you and did they give a reason why uh why they were angry at you i don't i can't speak to their mental state but i all i know is they think that they're me so then every time i had a thing happen and like posted about it

i i think it like shattered that illusion and then they were like attacking me but then they thought that they were it was very it was very weird because then also the messages they would send didn't actually make sense the only thing that was it like in any way intelligible was the threat so it would be like a long thing and it would be a bunch of things that didn't make any sense at all like whatsoever and then it would be like but i'm gonna kill you and it's like you don't have any that sentence made sense you don't have any idea who this individual is did you go to the police they weren't able no we went to the police and yeah they weren't able to ascertain the identity of this yeah individual because even with the threats they're like i think the most they can do is collect them

but they they can't like you know we were sending screenshots to the police and stuff like that but the most that they can do is just like i will we'll make a note of it. You would think there's a way to get an ISP address or something. Well, it wasn't that helpful because then they ended up telling us, the person that we were talking to about it, because we were like, here's an account that looks like their main. And that's the one that initially they were coming at me with until I finally blocked them. And so initially they were like coming at me with until i finally blocked them and so then they were obviously making ones and it's like if it's just been made and there's like

a fake email attached to it you're never going to find who this is whatever but the main one they were like okay this person is either in dc or lagos and i was like that doesn't help at all that's oh my gosh and it was like yeah because they may have been using a vpn or something because now vpns are more popular and like so it's just by default i think a lot of that stuff is harder to track down because more people are savvy to like maybe you bought a vpn because you want to watch canadian netflix because there's more stuff you like on it but then it does end up helping you out if you want to be crazy. I haven't seen you here in a while.

Have you been busy with The Daily Show? I do a little bit of touring, yeah. Oh, you've been on tour. Yeah, so I've been on the road. I'm on the road all year, really, next three weekends of the month. So I'm going to Kansas City this weekend and then South by Southwest. Do you enjoy that? I love it, yeah.

You love the road? It's great. this weekend and then south by south you enjoy that i love it yeah you love the road your luck i i envy people that love the road because there's i i just i get so no i can't do it and i i i've sort of configured my career around one-nighters where i go do it uh you know like a jewish community center in long island or i do a country club in new jersey i got something i'm doing a fundraiser in Baltimore for a school district down there. So it's one night, and it pays pretty well,

but the weekends at clubs, I just, I can't. It's too much for me. Did you ever like it? I never liked it. Did it. Never liked it. Get lonely. I'm just, I mean, the cold, hard reality is I don't like stand-up. Please, somebody buy me out.

I'll sell my whole act. I've said this before. My initial thought was that I'd get a TV show or something. Well, and I keep saying you might. Do you want to act or do you want to write? One or the other. Oh, one or the other? Okay. But doing stand-up, it's stressful.

It stresses me out. Sure, stand-up, it's stressful. It stresses me out. Sure, sure. I find it very stressful. Yeah. I find it, I do, like, I don't get nervous the way I used to get nervous anymore, but I do find myself getting a little, like, getting butterflies again. I think now it's just because I have to have a new hour, because now I'm touring and stuff, And I just the special just came out.

So then it's like not doing any of that stuff. And then luckily, I was already building up the hour. Also, I don't write that fast. I just don't write that fast. Now, I feel that's because my jokes are the way they are. I mean, you know, I don't want to make excuses, but there's only, you know, so many jokes about my cousin Sheila I can come up with. You know, jokes about if you're familiar with my act about shit that never happened right yeah you know and uh rather than just the new in a matter of fact talking about the news

of the day or the issues of the day which i suppose if i had to come up with another hour i would do that but you could also talk how many jokes about my fucking, uh, uh, ninth grade, uh, sex ed teacher using his real penis to demonstrate how to put on a condo. Can I come up with that? But you, but that's only because you talk about things that didn't happen.

If you talked about things that did happen, it would be endless. Right. Well, I would, but, but that would make you more stylistically. Stylistically,

it wouldn't be as consistent. And I do filter through my own lens But stylistically it wouldn't I mean Noam used to tell me Just do some jokes like that And some jokes that are more matter of fact But stylistically it would clash Like if Stephen Wright just went from

My school colors were clear to It's crazy what's going on with Kanye People would be like They wouldn't fit together Yeah but I do think that you end up in a different space when you're pushed there versus wanting to go there on your own. So like if something happened one day where just for whatever reason you couldn't do any of the jokes that you wrote anymore. Well, then I'd have to go in a different direction. but i but i think that you're more capable of doing it than feels comfortable so then it is a slower process if that makes sense

like like for me i i didn't think i remember when i wrote my first hour i didn't think i'd have another hour and then you know eventually you're whether you're whether the thing even if you don't have a special come out even if you don't do an album the thing that ends up making you have to write more is that finally out of all the times you've done stand-up a place that had you headline wants you to come back so now it's like yeah maybe it's been a year year and a half but especially if if people really liked you they're gonna come back again and that I think even before I ever had a special was my reasoning to be like oh let me always be like playing with something and then as I played more I wrote quicker so it's not even as if you

know it's not even as if it's not hard to write a lot it's just that the thing that gets me nervous now the thing that I have the butterflies for which is good but it's just that the thing that gets me nervous now the thing that i have the butterflies for which is good but it's like all the new stuff that i'm doing has like a little bit more i i think it would surprise people what i'm doing based on what i've done and it's like my attempt at evolution but it's also just things that are on my mind and so then to to your point go in this different direction but also have it be new it's like there's always there's always a little bit of fear there trying another motivation to to write is of course your own sense of i can't i i hate telling these jokes because i'm sick of them yeah you know you get you get sick of them whether

you've recorded them or not and if you if you have enough going on which is this is not a diss on anyone who isn't writing a lot but it's like if you have enough going on in your head about something eventually you do want to get it out and i feel like having a written joke is a way of getting it out like to like to your point about having the therapist it's like i I start working on a thing a while ago about how I only really want to take dating advice from lesbians. Because it's like they're the only ones who like get it. Like they get what I'm going through because they also date women, but they also are women. And if you don't finish that punnett square and go straight across, you're getting bad advice. Because even, I cannot tell you how many times I've been close to a woman, like a very good friend of mine.

And then maybe, this is like when I lived in Chicago, right? Close friend, I was telling her about some dating troubles I was having. And she cannot imagine being me. So she just plugged herself into what the other woman did and I was like I was like you know me how is this also how have you also turned on me now I'm not even saying I was looking for a specific answer but then just to what you know to what Noam was saying it's like you you also can't go to like a single dude if you have a relationship problem that's usually not you will lose your home you

know i mean and so it's like having a like having a lesbian is just a way to be like all right you are a woman so you know how my um girlfriend might have felt but you also date women so you also know what women can be like to date and so then that's that's the only like objectivity down the line that i think you can you can get as a straight guy so if you were having if you were going to go to a therapist with the relationship issue you'd have to go to a lesbian therapist yeah i would just take whatever my therapist said with a grain of salt and be like um bro you don't know like i think i think personally because therapy and finding the right person is so much like dating in a sense like a lot of people feel trapped like they go they go to someone because their insurance takes them or whatever and then they're like well this is my therapist and if

they kind of suck or they don't seem to listen or they clearly have their own well you might not know if they suck no you know because well you it takes a while because it might take a while that they're doing something that you don't quite understand but yet you'll feel better or you'll improve in the long term but you can't necessarily analyze that straight away how would you know well if they're doing things or guiding you in a direction that you don't quite see well you may not know immediately that they're helping. It shouldn't be that fucking mysterious, though. Well, they go to school for, you know, nine years,

so I assume, I mean, unless you're in accord with Noam, that they really have no special expertise in anything. No, I'm not in accord with Noam at all. That's Noam's belief about therapy. But if they really are, you know, they go to med school for four years, I guess, and then they go... I don't think they go to med school for four years, I guess, and then they go. I don't think therapists go to med school. Well, psychiatrists.

Yeah, I'm not talking about psychologists. Well, my niece is, I think she went four years and then a PhD takes another two years, whatever it is. It's like, it's a lot. So you can't necessarily know what they're doing because. No, but I mean, you also need to vibe with a therapist. You got to vibe. You got to vibe. There has to be like,

that's the other reason to be totally honest. And maybe I'm revealing a little bit too much here. Why? I already talked about your, uh, you know, the anal fissure a few episodes ago, but I,

um, I discovered very early on that I needed a gay guy for my therapist because I couldn't bear to walk into these offices that were just so heinous and poorly designed. Like, I couldn't take it that seriously if I walked into a space that just looked like it was, like, dusty. So straight men can't get a gay guy to design their office? Well, I mean. Or that they just have. But also you don't want somebody who might potentially try to sleep with you. But do you think then...

So this is a... I want to get your opinion on this because of where you end up leaning towards. I want to get your opinion on this. I think that with good reason, but also i do believe it's happening when you like not in an identity politics way but just in a way that ends up being the way the world is when you are dealing with people it's, but we all have it. There's a certain aspect of us, whether you are placed in this Venn diagram of identities, that doesn't like when the one this far away from me is right.

So as a, and I'll admit to it, as a black person, sometimes I hate when white people just write. I'm just like, God damn. And you can hear it. You're like, oh, and they'll be right about something you wish they do nothing about. Like if a white guy walked out and was like, this is what the black community needs to do to raise, like, just to raise their financial awareness and to have more money flowing through their community. And he's just right. And you can hear him being right.

He sounds right. There's still going to be a part of you. And some people let that part of them take over and don't want to listen where they're like, I'm not going to listen to some white man about like money and telling me what to do with my black money and whatever. Right. And then I think that there's a thing even with,

with obviously with men towards women, but also with women back to men where it's like i've watched it it's like i was raised by women you know and it's like sometimes like women just hate what a man is just right about something and so it's more comfortable to get the exact same advice from someone who looks like you or someone who doesn't you don't feel threatened as if they're going to talk down to you. But it's the same advice. Like anybody can yell fire in a building.

And they can be right. But the idea, I guess that's what I feel like. Is that sometimes problems are so apparent. And they're so urgent. That I don't care who is the person to sit me down and tell me. But a lot, right now we hear a lot on social media, as a white man, as a straight man, as a cis man or whatever, stay out of the conversation. We hear that a lot, right?

Yeah, yeah. People say, you're not entitled to an opinion, you're not entitled to speak, you need to listen. That's sort of an overarching theme that we see now, I think. Would you agree, Perriella, we see that a lot? Yes, I would agree that we see that a lot. So I think what Josh is saying is that, well, we shouldn't think that way.

If somebody's got an opinion, we should listen to it and judge it on its merits, which would seem to me the obvious. I mean, that's my thing. It's like, this is the reason I said the white-black thing, right? Is I was having a conversation with a friend who something like this kind of happened

and they were annoyed. And I was like, but, and this is when I lived in louisiana and i was like we are both poor so a poor a poor person is not gonna come tell us how to make money right we need a rich person and we may not like who that rich person is but as long as they're right we will make money right so at a certain point you can't have this like i'm not telling you what to do. I'm just saying like, at a certain point, I think it's becoming a thing culture wide, where instead of having more openness than the historical white man had towards women being right, or people of color being right, or worth listening to or having good points, we've actually expanded that point of view. And it's like, well, if a white man's not going to listen to a black woman, why should a black woman listen to a white man about anything? Because some of that talk of like, you need to listen, whatever, I think a lot of it does end up getting directed at people

who don't know what they're talking about. Of course, but a lot of people don't know what they're talking about of all race, creeds, and colors. A black man don't know what they're talking about. Of course. But a lot of people, there's people that don't know what they're talking about of all race, creeds and colors. Yeah. A black man might not know what they're talking about, about a black issue and a white man, not or a Jewish man might not know what he's or she is talking about, about a Jewish issue.

But the idea that somebody should be, because they're not in the affected group, should just sit down and shut up. They should be sensitive and respectful and understand that it could get, that their opinion, you know, is coming from a certain place, but their opinion should be sensitive and respectful and understand that it could get that their opinion, you know, is coming from a certain place. But their opinion should be allowed. I should be allowed to express my opinion on reparations, for example. I think without being told, shut up and stay out of the conversation.

Yeah, I think that what ends up happening is when you are too close to something, it is actually harder to solve the problem. And every once in a while, the problem is solved by someone who does not have a fight in the like they they just right they're not in the game at all right so so it is true that you can get great advice from anyone right like you might get great advice from you know somebody who you would think that fit the complete opposite profile of who you want to listen to. And I've certainly had that experience as well. But if you have to just, you know, throw darts and say, like, if I could pick anyone, like, this is kind of the profile. And I've done that and I've been wrong, too. We live in a world where we can hear a lot of

opinions. You go on Twitter and I'm happy to hear anybody's opinion. If somebody has an opinion on anti-Semitism and, you know, you're not allowed to define anti-Semitism if you're not Jewish. No, I don't think that's true. I think every you can't tell a black man what racism is. Well, again, I don't think that's true either. I can give my opinion. My opinion might be out of my ass and you're welcome to tell me that it is because the the thing that i think ends up happening more often than not especially now that everybody can talk and everybody can talk to everybody is that it would be like going to a couple's therapist right and a couple's therapist

will still not know the ins and outs they won't know who's lying they won't know who's embellishing they'll just watch the dynamic of you two you'll you'll both say your piece and they'll offer up their best exercises to mediate you know but it would be like if you didn't like that therapist's advice saying to them well you're not in this relationship right so you don't get to and it's like but they're exactly who needs to say something and have an opinion and offer up solutions so i just find I just find that if there are fewer ideas, I have no problem with people talking about how the spectrum of ideas can be 80%, 90% bad. I fully believe that. Everyone being allowed to talk and everyone not choosing to read is not a great thing.

Not a great thing. But I do find that you end up getting more ideas in the same way that jokes work, where sometimes your friend says something and it is not even funny, but it gets your mind going towards a thing that is funny. Right. A funny thing came out of a not funny thing. A good idea can come sort of out of an idea that either doesn't work or a straight-up bad idea. But I think that in therapy, and I had a therapist that I was friends with, actually, a psychologist who I didn't see, and she told me this many years ago, and I never forgot it,

that when you're going to therapy, you're spending all this time and all this money and all this energy. In every session, you should have at least one kind of aha moment. Like something, you should have like at least one kind of aha moment like something you should well if that's the way therapy works it may not be the way therapy where i don't you know i mean well i think the whole point or part of it is to get out of your head right like we create these narratives i really don't know what's going on i don't know what they're up to like have you ever

been to therapy yes and i don't know what and yes i was I don't know what they're up to. Have you ever been to therapy? Yes, and I don't know what... Was it talk therapy? Talk! And how'd it go? How long did you go for, first of all? I don't want to get into my therapy history, but I don't know if it worked or not. But, you know, I just assume that they're doing shit that I didn't know what they were doing.

Yeah, I don't think that's it. Like a fucking mechanic is fiddling around in my car, and I don't know what he's doing. Josh, I wasn't trying to's it. Like a fucking mechanic is fiddling around in my car. No. And I don't know what he's doing. Josh, I wasn't trying to keep it tight, but I did want to, I think, put a nice bow on the whole thing.

Mm-hmm. Talking about different people having opinions. And Chris Rock mentioned at the end of his set, spoiler, if you don't want to know what he said at the end of his set then don't listen but he said well he was at he's been asked why he did not fight back against will smith and he said because uh i have parents and they told me don't fight in front of white people is this a common thing no no i've I've never heard that in my life, but I think that also it's part of the...

Is it shtick, or do you think that really is what he was taught? I mean, I think that may be how he feels, and I'm sure that someone in his life maybe said something along those lines, but I still think it's mostly for the sake of the joke. But the reason the joke works is because it resonates with the audience. The black people in the audience were laughing,

and the white people too, and I assume it's because they get it. I assume some of them have been told that. Like, behave yourself. As white people, we need to be on our best behavior and comport ourselves in a certain way. Yeah, but I think that there's something to be said for like, you don't not fight someone because white people are there.

You don't fight someone because people are there. So I think that if it's a lesson he's trying to teach the audience, I think you just say people. If it's a joke he's trying to tell, I think that you say white people. Does that make sense? Because it's like this idea. You don't think Chris really believes that you shouldn't fight in front of white people? Or that that played any role in leads more to like in my opinion let me not mess up my money or like i did i don't think that you know will smith smacked him and then he was like i'd hit him but meryl streep is here like that that doesn't really uh yeah resonate with me as

much and when i saw the joke i just thought it's like oh funny funny way to end it i didn't think like oh he's right we shouldn't be fighting in front of white people or you know like i think that caring about you think any good could have come of him i mean oh hitting will back hitting will back um i don't i don't necessarily if he could have dropped Will with one punch, that would have been something else. It would have. And then he would have still had to bring up the nominee. Can you imagine Will Smith? Poor Questlove.

Can you imagine Will Smith is laid out on the stage and then Chris goes, now where was I? Yeah. It'd be a great moment for comedy. It'd be very weird. And Will's just laid out and Chris goes, okay, let's bring up our next presenter. And the dude is laid out in front of him.

I mean, that would have been kind of amazing. It wouldn't have happened because I don't think Chris is capable of laying out. Yeah, I think when someone's got like 80 pounds on you, you're not going to knock them out hard. Chris made that point in the special, spoiler alert, that he said, you might not realize this, but Will Smith is significantly larger than me.

You know, it may not come off that way on TV. Yeah. But he played Muhammad Ali. Yeah. And I didn't audition for that role. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe he said I played Pookie and Will didn't audition for that role.

I don't know. Whatever it was. One of those two. I'm cold in here. Is it me? Maybe my. I mean, maybe you're not dressed warmly enough. You're wearing a,

I don't know. It's not, it's, I have a jacket on. Yeah, I have a sweater on. It's cold to me. In any case,

um, Josh Johnson, Josh Johnson, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. Thanks for having me. With Noam's favorite person. I,

I, I'm quite fond of you. Uh, I appreciate it. As well. I, I'm sorry I didn't recognize you. No, it's not a big deal. I didn quite fond of you. I appreciate it. As well. Sorry I didn't recognize you. No, it's not a big deal. I didn't take it personally.

You were the 500th person. Both blacks and white people. Everybody is not recognizing me now. Until you talk. Yeah. That's so weird. Then I say it's Josh and they're like oh, yeah. So his special

is on Peacock. Why am I killing myself? Up here killing myself. Yeah. Why am I killing myself? That would be a Jewish mother special. Is on Peacock streaming. Yeah.

So thank you for being with us, Josh. Yeah, thanks for having me. Will we be seeing you here more often because you, yeah. As soon as I'm out on the road. Yeah. I'm going to be, um,

out for most of March, but then, yeah, yeah. I plan to be March madness. Everybody. Josh Johnson, Perry L,

uh, of course is, she's always with us, but we thank her. And, uh, Nicole Lyons behind the scenes. Thank you,

Nicole. We'll see you next time and Noam will hear maybe perhaps he'll have some interesting stories about his dinner with the Baroness and you can find us online

you're at Dan Natterman oh yeah and I'm at Perrielle Ashenbrand and Josh is at Josh Johnson

Josh Johnson comedy on Instagram TikTok and YouTube okay thank you everybody. Goodbye. Bye.