The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Judy Gold

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Judy Gold is an Emmy Award-winning actress and comedian. She discusses her new, one-woman show, Yes, I Can Say That, based on her book of the same name.

This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of New York's world-famous comedy cellar, coming at you on SiriusXM 99, Raw Dog, and the Laugh Button Podcast Network. This is Dan Aderman here via Zoom with Noam Dorman, who's joining us from his home. Hello. Noam is the owner of the world-famous and ever-expanding comedy seller. We're here with Perrie L. Ashenbrand, the producer of the show, and with our special guest, Judy Gold, who we were talking about just last week or two weeks ago. Last week, Noam, you weren't here, I believe.

But two weeks ago, Noam, you were telling us that we have no choice. We must see Judy's new one-person show. Called Yes, I Can Say That. It's always good to do your due diligence before you. Yes, I Can Say That is the name of the show, and Judy, you're quite right. Remember when some loser would say something stupid

or inappropriate, and you would say to your friend, oh my god, what an asshole, and then you would move on with your life? Not anymore! You're supposed to say person living with a mental health condition. I am proudly mentally ill. People are taking their comedians seriously, and their politicians as a joke.

Silencing comedians not only robs us of joy, but it is a danger to our democracy and a threat to our very survival. And Noam, you were absolutely over the moon in your compliments, and your effusion. What's the word I'm looking for? He was effusive. He was effusive.

I was gobsmacked. In a way, he seldom is. Not never, but seldom. Well, I was gobsmacked. But, you know, time has tempered it a little bit. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Oh, God.

I was going to punch your face. No. It was absolutely. I'm kidding. Oh God. I was going to punch your face. No, it was, it was absolutely. I was very proud just to know Judy. I was so proud to, to, to know. I mean, it was so good. It was so good. Thank you, Noam. And guess what? What? Noam came to the party afterwards. That's how much he liked it. Yeah. This was a premier party. Yes. Yes. And did Noam come stag or did he bring his lover? No, he brought this lovely woman named Juanita. Okay.

Who is just gorgeous. His wife, as listeners may or may not know. So this show is based on your book of the same name? The book is called Yes, I Can Say That. When they come for the comedians, we're all in trouble. This is based on the book, but it is much more personal. And B.D. Wong directed it, and that is why I think it's such an emotional journey

and very personal and a play. It's a play. It has a beginning, middle, and end. Do you do different characters, or you're always Judy? Well, I do the essence when I'm when i am uh quoting a comedian or doing a bit from their act to prove a point uh or make a statement i try to get the essence of them but i'm not like you're not imitating no no can you tell us a little bit about your reaction to the show and then maybe judy can tell us a little bit about what it was about.

Why don't you just tell you what it's about? I told you my reaction. I told you. I thought she was fantastic. Why don't you tell Judy? I did tell her. He just did. Okay.

God, it's like. But part of the show incorporates – the book was about comedians and the current climate in which comedians are censored. There's a lot of history. There's a lot of history in the book and there's a lot of history in the show. But I thought it would be easy to adapt it from a book, but it was actually harder than writing a one-person show from scratch. Because how do you pick and what is going to make this show move along and be a journey where people are focusing the whole time? So there's a lot of history in this too, but the book is really, each chapter is a polemic about a certain part of what it's like to be a comedian and related to free speech. But there's history in this too. And I also think it's a call to action. Like we're in

fucking trouble here. You know, come on people people. This isn't, like, funny, silly stuff anymore. This banning of books and all this shit. It's ridiculous. So you integrate your life story with the notion of... My comedy life story.

How I started and who my influences were. And the censorship that you have faced and still face? Well, I use other people, I guess, as examples, but I talk a lot about the Holocaust. I talk about what it was like being a woman in the 80s doing stand up and then coming out, how that affected my career um and yeah it's it's it's i think it's such a rich people the thing that was so interesting about it is we got we have gotten all great reviews i don't read them but elisa my lover said that each reviewer, something else stuck with them.

So it wasn't like it's the same thing. I think different parts of the show resonate with different people. Well, then, as a reviewer, which resonated most with you? We're going to cut. I don't know what resonated most. I wasn't reviewing it. What resonated with me was how talented Judy was and how entertaining the whole thing was and how it kept my interest. I mean, I don't think the point of my review would be about the deep message of the show, although the message of the show is deep and important. But this is a message that, you know, especially in our industry, we all agree with and we all have aired out at various times.

It was the execution which had me floored because I'm usually anxious to leave any show that I attend, even if it's a good one. As I've said, I've never been to a Broadway show where at intermission, I was happy there was another half coming. You know, I always, no matter how good it was, I always would have been fine if that's the way it ended. And when I heard the Judy show was, how long does it run, Judy? 80.

Yeah, I heard the 80 minutes. I was like, oh God, an hour and 20 minutes. You know, I was really not, not anxious. And it went I was like, oh, God, an hour and 20 minutes. I was really not anxious. And it went out. It really, cliche, it went by in the blink of an eye. I couldn't believe it was over. It moved along. It was expertly presented.

That's really what had me. A star is born. That would have been my headline. But, you know, was born 60 years ago. And happy belated. Yeah, thank you. But B.D. Wong is just brilliant. I mean, I was writing with my friend Eddie Sarfati and getting the script in shape.

And he is also helping us along with the script. But he's working with these designers to make it a theatrical experience. I didn't even know what he had in mind with these designers. And it just came to life. It's unbelievable. 80 minutes of just you, that sounds like a workout to me. Oh, I'm exhausted. That would be, you know, I mean, after 45 minutes of stand-up, it's tiring.

It's not stand-up, though. I'm saying when it's just you and you're the only one who's doing all the talking. That's kind of a long time. Right. But I love telling the story. I don't get, I don't go, oh, God, here we go. I can't wait to get to the next section and the next section because it's just – it builds and builds and builds, and it does keep people's interest. People are really affected by it, and we've done a bunch of talkbacks after, and people I can't say that, which is the book and the title of the show.

Do you think that we're worse off now or things are just different? Like you can be out as lesbian on stage and as you could not be in the 80s. Is that correct? Right. So that's an improvement. I couldn't be in mainstream comedy. That would have just been – but it definitely had an effect on my career. I came out in the mid-90s.

And it had a profound effect on my career. But, you know, I've also been told not to be too Jewish. And, you know, it's a different time now. But now the left, what the fuck are you doing? What are you doing? Like, shut the fuck up. I don't understand. It's so, look, the right has never been hilarious.

Let's admit it. There are, how many really right-wing conservative funny people are there? Well, there might be closet right-wing people that are funny. And, you know, I think there's a lot of comedians that have slightly right-of-center views that you might not be aware of. Slightly right and right-wing are completely different, I think. But liberal, conservative is smaller. Liberal is bigger. You know're you're attuned to other people and they're and they are characters in your stories and you're you know you i i don't know i just i the left really pisses me off with the cry baby you said this word i'm not listening to the whole fucking joke because i heard a word and it's all about me me me me me it me, me. It's just it's horrible. And then you have the right wing banning books and telling teachers what they can talk about and what it's no.

This is a terrible situation we have here. Do you think personally that are there things that affect that would offend you? Not that they shouldn't be said, but that you if you saw a comedian saying certain things, you would kind of be disgusted. And yeah, I've been disgusted numerous times. They have a right to say whatever the fuck they want. I have a right to say I don't like it and then move on with my life. What is this shit where you don't like something and then that person's career has to be destroyed? Like, what is that?

You know, and there's a line in the show about, you know, going to a comedy club. My friend Eddie says this all the time. Going to a comedy club and expecting not to get offended is like getting on a roller coaster and expecting not to get scared. It's part of this whole process. And the audience, their response is the vital element of our creative process. And you're going to turn on us we're trying to find out where the line is like that's why i only want to work at the comedy cellar no one has a fucking phone no one's recording no one's like you know the first time when they implemented the

the no phone thing um the first set i did after that i was at the fat black doing an hour and um i was on stage i was like oh wow this audience is so great that, I was at the Fat Black doing an hour. And I was on stage. I was like, oh, wow, this audience is so great. And I looked down at the tables. And there were these pouches with everyone's phone in. I almost started crying. Because it was like what comedy was before. Where people went and they were listening.

And the whole audience was together. They were a unit. This social media, the dumbing down, it's all a part of it. No, more just the impetus. Can I cast that out? Because she's bringing something I'm curious about.

Now that we've been bagging those shows for a while, bagging those phones for a while. Those phones are in the bags. Yeah. And you play at other clubs. Do you think it's different? The shows are different to the cellar because the phones are bagged? 150,000%.

150. Yeah. I mean, it is, you know, the thing about the cellar, and there are other clubs that do this, a handful, you know, their first priority is the comedian. That doesn't happen in most clubs. It's all about the money, the audience, the audience. They, I have never felt unsafe. I mean, I hate the word safe or anything like that.

I don't even want to use the word safe. I have never felt underappreciated. I don't know. There's something about having some respect. I have never felt disrespected by anyone at the Comedy Cellar except for Valerie. I walked in and she said she said that that table is just for comedians and I said Valerie I have been doing stand-up for 40 years

she's like oh I just started here I said okay is that true yes well what's so funny about that what's so funny about that it was one of the lessons I I'm keeping a list of things that, lessons I want to teach my kids

because I'm afraid I might not be around to teach them. So I'm going to try to leave them like a, I think that was a movie with Michael Keaton. No, I'm afraid I'm going to try to teach my kids Fortress of Solitude, like Superman's dad, like try to leave them videos. But little slights can stay with people the rest of their fucking lives.

Oh, my God. It's amazing. You never forgot that. You're not so angry at Mallory about that, are you? No, but I'm going to tease her for the, you know, the every time I see her. It's true. You know, you think about when comedians first start out and the shit that, you know, I hear young comedians first start out, start out, start out, and the shit that, you know, I hear young comedians, well, first of all, one of the other things in the show

that I did a lot of research for the show, and I talked to comedians who've been doing it a year, and they tell me they have to play it safe to get on stage. There's certain topics they're not supposed to talk about,

like at these Brooklyn stages or these very like woke. Right. And that's that is just the antithesis of stand up. But it's true that, you know, every young comedian comedian remembers one nasty, every nasty piece of shit, horrible thing someone has said to them about their act or just to take a maybe a counter argument here um i'm not i'm not convinced that things are worse today in terms of censorship of course we have social media and and that and that is it can be very nasty but remember dice clay this was going back 30 years did his show now he did it to a sold-out, but he received a lot of backlash for some of the things that he said about women.

He did jokes about – that were seen as degrading to women. And there was a lot of backlash. I think they tried to get – he hosted Saturday Night Live and there was some protesting that went on for that. So, you know, I think there's always been people that react this way to comedians. They didn't have social media behind them to organize. And so that's a definite difference. OK, Dan, first of all, I write about Andrew Dice Clay in the book. Andrew Dice Clay is a character who's a misogynist.

Right. But people didn't interpret it. Some people interpreted it the other way. Right. And that people are going to interpret things the way they interpret things. There was no social media. That is absolutely correct. People didn't like him. That's fine. You're allowed to protest.

You're allowed. Right. But to get on social media. The fact that Kathy Griffin was holding a mask with ketchup on it and she can't answer her phone. She loses everything. She's got the FBI after her. I mean, come on. And this motherfucker is inciting violence and an insurrection. And he's remained in power for four fucking years, it's not right.

Comedians are trying to make you laugh, and sometimes it doesn't hit right. But that doesn't mean they should be silenced. I believe in free speech for even the comedians I think are offensive and horrible. You should all be able to say what you want. But you also have a choice to turn it off. And it's not about you. It's not about you. No one's thinking about you. And you can joke about anything as long as it's funny.

I happen to find Andrew Dice Clay, those stupid poems. They're silly and stupid and hilarious. They're so stupid. But the point I was making is that some people didn't realize it was a character or didn't – Right, but they're idiots. And felt that he was a misogynist. But did he still work? Did he still work and make a lot of money? He still worked.

Right. But now people are being canceled. Canceled. Well, people – Losing work. People are losing work, but people but there are many. But the good news is, is that because of social media, there's also more opportunities to make an end. Right. Like, for example, Shane Gillis. I talk about him and was denied his his right.

It's not live, but is able now to do podcasts. And he's a funny, funny guy, and he's a nice guy, but he's working for a corporation. Now, maybe Lorne Michaels was like, I still want him, but it doesn't mean the NBC execs – if he's going to scare away advertisers, that's their number one priority. So it was a corporate decision. He still can say whatever the hell he wants but dan i and i i will say this and i get this a lot from from white men i do uh and i have to say that if you have never had to if you've never marched in a in a protest because they're taking away your rights or no one's ever had to stand in front of the Supreme Court for your human rights, you're an entitled person. And, you know, I see things differently than you see things because I'm a lesbian. I'm a woman.

I'm a Jew. You're a Jew. I'm a Jew. But, you know, it is a different experience for us. Who do you blame mostly for the Shane Gillis affair, the corporate suits at NBC or the online mob? Or do they share equal blame? probably a combination of both i mean who knows how did the how did the nbc the corporate people not anticipate that was going to happen you know it wasn't like it was you know 10 years ago 15 years ago it was within the a couple of years right I don't know. I do think it's a corporate thing.

And yes, I think it was influenced by the online mob. I want to say a couple of things. We'll move on to the subject. But two things. One thing is that humor is very, very, very difficult to explain or to quantify or to explain, to understand. And, you know, let's say Andrew Dice Clay is a misogynist. I don't know that he's not a misogynist. And let's say he's telling those jokes and he really, you know, means them in some way.

Does that mean I'm not allowed to laugh at them? Like when Larry David says about Jewish people, he goes, you know, we are a bit much, you know, I love that line. And, uh, now I, what is, I mean, there is, he's, he's tipping his hat to something, which he thinks is a little bit true there. It's funny. I can't really, yeah., I mean, there are differences between men and women. And I kind of bristle at the whole notion that we're granting the idea that somebody who jokes about them or believes them is a misogynist. I think a misogynist in real life is something much worse than a dude who says, oh, these women. You know, like because we all have these feelings. And by the way, women are totally open and free.

Men this and men that. And people of color are totally open to say white men this, white men that. So it's not as if they don't every day accept the theoretical basis that populations are different. But if a white man wants to make an observation along those lines, he's a misogynist or we have to say, well, he doesn't really believe that stuff. People of color, they believe that stuff about white people. Women believe that stuff about men and they're allowed to, and they right. And you go, girl, you're speaking truth to power. But if a man says something, you know,

that he observes about the difference between the opposite sex, he's a misogynist. So I want to say that. Okay, so when do you think that started? That white male is a misogynist? I don't know, but I want to make one other observation. I want to make one other observation to what you said. So I read you loud and clear when you say that if you've never had to march before the Supreme Court for your basic rights, that you haven't experienced –

You were entitled that you haven't had to do that. It's true. But I want to tell you – yes. But I want to also say that I was reading through old letters of my father today. He saved a lot of letters, and some of them were letters that he wrote but he didn't send, which was pretty interesting. And it was a vivid snapshot. This was from the 60s of a man who was fucking struggling. He was broke, broke. He had an ulcer because his partner was suing him without integrity. My mother was trying to take custody from him.

He was raising a single child. He was trying to take custody from me, from him. I was he was raising a single child. He was trying to build a new business. I mean, the fucking guy was was I can't even imagine the water that he was under psychologically. And he came out of it. And now he were alive today. People would say to him, well, Manny, you know, you were privileged. You're you're you're you're a white man This is, this is your entitlement, you know? So I don't know. No, well, we do. I didn't say you would say that, but people say all the time. In other words,

all the, what I'm saying is that people have terrible struggles. The struggle that you're describing is a shame on the United States of America. Right. And and as a society, we have to address that because we're a democracy. We have to address that. But what does get lost in all this talk of entitlement and privilege and what and all that is that there are many, many ways that people struggle terribly in life. Absolutely. And these and-legal discrimination ways, these are awful. And they were more awful, God knows.

And maybe they continue to be awful for a trans person in a certain red state or whatever it is. I'm not trying to minimize the suffering of any human in any sense. But I do think there is something about this movement which does try to minimize

the suffering of others in the process of calling righteously our attention to their struggle. So I really – I'll show you some of those letters. It was really stunning. I'm talking about in relationship to comedy. So I don't have the privilege of being like an observational comic because that's not what I think about. I think about my struggles and what it's like and the unfairness. So that to be lazy comedy, you know, when you're just, you know, just gratuitously trying to get a reaction out of people when you're not really crafting material. And so. Well, you're not saying observational comedy is lazy. No, I think observational comedy is great. I think that who do that um and are great at it it's a it is a skill but i can't do that because i'm angry and and i'm trying to navigate through this world as a 60 year old woman who's a lesbian and a you look great dyke thank you and a jew

and i've had to fight for every fucking thing do i have i ever been like oh it's so hard never i've always just done my work i've done my work i've done my work and i've and i and and i have heard so many misogynist things and i was just like you know what that's what they do i want to be a great comic and i think that especially like when we were doing tough crowd i was like a comic that was it i wanted to just i never was like fucking the guys because hey i'm a lesbo but i just always wanted to just do comedy and be great at stand-up and i think that everyone respected me for that and i wasn't like fucking around and i wasn't like yeah um and i think both men and women do that um but and i don't know it's it's you're a great comedian you can see the world through

their eyes and and yeah and your father was also an immigrant um i mean look at Robin Williams struggling with depression. And there's reasons why these people are funny. And I think that that isn't pushed by the wayside. But what I'm saying is because I am othered or I'm fighting for all this shit, I think about that when I'm getting on stage and I have a microphone. We talk a lot about it. A lot is said about being a woman in comedy, trans people in comedy, and gay people in comedy. You mentioned being Jewish, and you say that that's actually affected you as well. You feel you've had to rein in your Jewishness or been told to rein in your Jewishness? I was told to rein in my Jewishness? I've been told to rein in your Jewishness? I was told to rein in my Jewishness. I was always told.

And when I did The Tonight Show for the first time, I think it was 95, I did some jokes about my mother. And a woman from the Jewish Daily Forward complained, oh, you're promoting stereotypes. I'm like, shut the fuck... That is how my mother talks.

That's exactly what she said. It's funny. And you're sitting in your apartment on the Upper West Side. And I'm traveling around the United States talking about my Jewish mother. Shut the fuck up. That's about you. Most of this shit is about the person who was complaining. And all around the country,

you would reference being Jewish, even if you're in the Middle West? Yes, yes. Oh, please, people yelling shit. The Jews have all the money. That's the title of this episode. The Jews have all the money. Oh my God, I was in Georgia.

They're like, yeah, you know what's so funny? This was in Georgia. They're like, yeah, you know what's so funny? This was so interesting. I remember, I guess it was the early 90s. There was a comic, Linda Smith, who went on the road and she was Italian and Irish. And she called me from a gig, I don't know where, in the South or something and she said to me um they thought i was jewish and they were so awful to me and that was like that was the first time i ever heard anyone i mean it was it was mad oh you're so new york and you know whatever they were and she she was like oh my god they're they think i'm jewish she got on stage they were so horrible and she realized oh and she said like, oh my god. They think I'm Jewish. She got on stage. They were so horrible and she realized – and she said in the middle of the set, oh, you think I'm not Jewish but you think I'm Jewish.

And that was the first time I ever heard anyone acknowledge who wasn't Jewish. The only thing I can – I don't talk about being Jewish but it's obvious enough to anybody that's familiar with Jews, which I guess not everybody is. But I was in South Dakota doing a show a few months ago, and two people at the show said to ask me, hey, are you a Jew? And I'm not even sure they meant anything by it. They might have just been curious. They've never seen one before in the flesh, but perhaps I reminded them of Seinfeld, what little they know about – Yeah, you look exactly like Jerry. But whatever little they know about Judaism and being Jewish, they knew enough that they thought I was one.

Right. And they said, are you a Jew? And I said, yeah. And one guy goes, really? Like he was sort of surprised, like, wow, they exist in the wild, you know. But I'm not prepared to say that was anti-Semitic. I just think that. It doesn't make any sense to me that there's Jews everywhere on TV and politics, show business.

How can they not? It's everywhere. But and who are you a Jew? And I don't know what they meant, but it's a weird phraseology. Yeah, it is. A Jew is a little more aggressive. But I guess I guess I guess they own their own home. Go ahead.

That doesn't mean that they meant it in a negative way because they were very complimentary about my comedy and wanted to take pictures with me, these same people. So I don't know how to interpret that question other than maybe just genuine curiosity about something that they had probably little contact with in person. You know, maybe they've seen it on television. Well, that's, you know, so from where you're sitting, you're giving them the benefit of the doubt. I give them the benefit of the doubt, but I don't know. I don't. I can't. I can't from where I'm sitting because I've had different experiences. And I think that that I would that would bring. Wouldn't that put you?

I was uncomfortable, for sure, but I have to say these people that just you know, maybe a Jew is not everybody knows that that's an impolite way to say it. You have to give them the benefit of the doubt because you are

you're a human, you're in a human situation you would probably, very likely interpret some nastiness or antagonism or a bad vibe in the question if that's what it was. People are not so likely to just come up – I mean it would be – I think it would be completely apparent to you if they were – had a negative vibe about that. Wouldn't they, Dan? But I would have – I mean just me. How would you have responded to that? I would have said – well, first of all, they wouldn't have had to ask.

And second of all, I would have asked them why they asked. Why do you ask? I really would be curious. Well, I didn't want to hear the answer. Right, exactly. I want to hear the answer. I want to hear why they need to know that. No, I wouldn't have wanted to hear the answer. I didn't. I want to hear why they need to know that. So I wouldn't have wanted to hear the answer why they made that assumption.

Don't you have a joke ready for that? Like, yeah. You know, Jews have big noses and you got a real big nose. Well, that's like I didn't need to hear that. So I just just said, yes, I am. And and and went about my day or evening. Okay. Well, that's you, and that's the difference between us, Dan. Okay. Because I would have been like, why are you asking? Do you have any more questions for me?

Yes, I'm very rich. I own show business, and I also own a bank. You guys need to take it easy. Who's asking? Don't you think Noam looks so good with his beard? Noam, by the way, it's getting back to the phones in the bags. What was your impetus? And by the way, you have been checking your phone multiple times. I'm sorry.

It's called obsessive compulsive disorder. I got so mad at Dan the other day. I wanted to apologize to him, but then I feel like he deserved it. Dan, we're at the show. Never mind. Never mind. By the way, Noam, you were in the audience the other night whilst I was on stage. Whilst?

Yes, whilst. Which I don't love seeing because I feel a little bit of extra pressure, but you got to see my act. Do you have any impressions? It was Jewy. Very Jewy. No, I've seen your act. You're funny as ever, Dan. What's the question?

I thought maybe you had, you know, I wanted more compliment. I thought you'd be a little more effusive because I had a pretty good set. Although it started off, I was a little bit stuttery because Noam was in the audience. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Listen, have you been to cognitive behavioral therapy? I never tried cognitive behavioral therapy. Yes. I would recommend that.

I have OCD and ADDDDD's very it's very helpful it gives you the tools so when you get that impulse where you're like nope no i'm not gonna no i have control over this yeah does it help premature ejaculation um i still have that probably could directed it toward that. Noam, what was your impetus initially to put the phones – to make people put the phones in the bag? I don't know if we've discussed this before. Just as a review. Because Chappelle was asking clubs to do it with these yonder bags.

And I felt – I was incorrect. I felt that this was an inevitability and I was trying to get out in front of it. The yonder, the yonder bags were not practical for us because of the time it takes to bag them and to close them and to open them after the show. So I began to brainstorm or, or actually Liz and Tony began to brainstorm what our alternatives were. We talked about things under the table, lockers, blah, blah, blah.

And then Tony came up with this idea like these Amazon bags, you know, because the room is small and those are not that easy to open. But that way at the end of the show, people can just leave with them and then open them on their own and throw them out. So we tried it and it was relatively easy and the comedians liked it right away. So that's,

that's why I did it. I was sure the entire industry was going to fall in behind us, but they haven't. I just don't understand why they don't, you know, at my, at the theater on, I think it was Saturday matinee.

There's a woman in the front row. Like text with the phone texting, like right up by her face and the thumbs are moving. And it was so I mean, I have to focus so much on this show. It's a script, you know? And I, at first I made a gesture to the guy who was sitting next to her, like, mm-mm. And then I had to stop and say, can you please put your phone away? Like, it's so, there's an announcement. You can't shut off your fucking phone for 80 fucking minutes.

Like, nothing, what's going to happen? But you know, to answer your question, Judy, you need some stock material for that kind of situation. fucking minutes? What's going to happen? Judy, you need some stock material for that kind of situation. I know. To answer your question about why the industry, and by the industry I'll confine it to comedy clubs, why they haven't followed suit, I think it's just logistics.

It takes manpower and time to put those phones in the bag. I don't know if Noam is listening. Noam, I mean, how much manpower do you devote to putting phones in the bags and doing all of that? It's significant. Not every club. I mean, it takes some doing.

Yeah, well, the other clubs have check spots. Now, why do they have check spots? Oh, I know. yeah well the other clubs have check spots now why do they have check spots oh i know and they have they have the check spots for the last show too and they don't have another crowd coming in like what's going on just for those who may not know what a check spot is is is well the comic is on stage they're giving people their checks instead of waiting till the show is completely over to hand out the check it's usually at the end of the second to last person right before the emcee comes on and is supposed to eat it for, you know. So the crowd is busy calculating their checks. They're looking at the check.

And so whoever's on stage at the time does not get the benefit of the audience's attention. Also, what happens is during the check spot, they put least um the the the newer comic newer comic yes uh the newer comic that's your time you're gonna you're gonna you get to go on when no one's paying attention let me let me like that's true sometimes but they also do it for headlining shows yeah i know and imagine you're at a movie and at the climactic time in the movie, that's when they come out and want you to purchase the ticket. They actually will. They'll take a famous person. And in the last 15 minutes of their act, as they built up to it, they'll start collecting the check.

Yeah, that happened to me just a few weeks ago in D.C. And I was just like, really? Like, just you can't fucking, you know, turn the room over. It's it is so it's just. Yeah, that's why there's really nothing that compares to the seller. There's nothing. The only negative thing I would say about the comedy seller to incomplete frank is that is that there's too much pressure on me to do my best joke.

Me, me, me, me, me. Well, I am part of this podcast, and we are discussing the comedy seller. Me, me, me, me. But I'm not the only one. A lot of people say that they're afraid to do new material at the comedy seller. That may be a good thing. Do it during the week. That may be a bad thing.

Do it during the week. But I'm just saying, if that's the one negative thing that comes out of the hyper success of the comedy seller, is that not just me, me, me, me, me, but comics are, and we do have a new joke night here, that comics can go on and do their new jokes there. But I'm just saying, that is the one thing that I do here, is that comics want to put their best foot forward, which, of course, you as a club owner would want, I assume. No, I think Noam is very into the process.

Noam? I understand. I do... I'm torn. I would like the comics to be able to work out material, but of course the audience has to come first. And that's why things like New

Joke Night, where the audience understands the parameters of the show, are great, and I'm happy to have that. Listen, I used to go through this with my band in the old days. The weekends would be so packed, and the lines, and sold out. We felt a tremendous pressure to do everything, you know, all the best songs and never deviate from the arrangements, not take any chances. And we hated it. We always looked forward to the Wednesday night show that was, you know, very sparse because we could do whatever we wanted. And often we play better music those nights, but you couldn't count on it.

So we couldn't take those chances on a weekend. So I get it. And you can put your new jokes in the middle. Yeah, I will sandwich one in sometimes. It's just I just feel a little bit more uneasy about it. Other clubs, I do new jokes with a lot more ease. That's all. It's not just the new jokes.

It's the inability to relax and be at ease. That's a problem for some performers. It's not a problem for, but for a lot of performers, it is. There's a particular vibe. It's, you know, you're up, you're into it, but you're not too nervous. And it's not, the bass is loaded, bottom of the ninth, but it's still kind of pressure. And that's kind of the sweet spot for a performer. And the pressure may be too much sometimes at the cellar.

I love that. That makes it so exciting for me. Oh, you're Mrs. October. I'm an erotic person who always feels under pressure. But yes, the cellar would be a little bit more so. Noam, what about your Monday night music nights? Do you feel pressure? Every Monday night at the Olive Tree, which includes tonight,

Noam and his band play music. And do you find yourself at all stressed out? Do you get stage fright at all? You seem so happy up there. I envy you. I look at you and I say, I wish I could be happy all my life as Noam is right now playing that mandolin.

Well, music is different than comedy. Music is different than comedy, but I do get stage fright. You think comedy is scarier than music? Yeah. Way scarier. Way scarier.

Not only is it way scarier, but the act of doing comedy isn't – is not primitive like music. Music, you're grooving. You're listening to other people. Music is just a different art form altogether. And his music is a group effort. We're up there. It's not like... And even a singer is singing someone else's song most of the time.

Someone else's song. It's, yeah. Comedy is so personal. Well, also comedy, you get evaluated after each joke. Right. You get a Yelp review, basically basically after every joke in the form of laughter music yes that is right you have that the audience's response is the most important element of our creative process and i guess noam there is i guess you can kind of see

when you look into the audience you kind of get a notion if they're enjoying it or not it's not quite as clear cut although it's clear cut do you think so i mean also when people don't like songs they're not screaming out like that they hate you and you suck right like there are hecklers when you're performing also which i think is unique to stand up right there's no fourth wall but it's also you, people go see Billy Joel to hear his 30-year-old songs, 35-year-old songs. Those would be the newer songs. Right. And he keeps selling out. But people don't want to hear a comedian's joke 15 times.

Right. They want to hear something new. I have a whole thing about this in the show, you know, that Leonard Bernstein never looked to the insurance adjuster in the third row and was like dave what do you think too much oboe you're like it doesn't happen in other art forms yeah where you're relying on the audience and then if they turn on you or they're not listening there's no comedy without nuance intent and context if they can't you know listen to to what there're full on. There's no such thing as background comedy. There is.

Music can be a background activity. People can have conversations while listening to music as they do. But comedy requires full attention. Right. So that's another big difference. This is an interesting conversation all of itself. You can have background music, right? And, that's another big difference. This is an interesting conversation all of itself. Like you can have background music, right?

And so that's an art form you're using for background music and fine arts, like paintings and stuff like that. This is really just decoration. Like I, like on the one hand we take it so seriously. I know the hand, but what do we use it for? We use it mostly for decoration,

right? It's kind of interesting. Like very, you just spend very much time like looking intently at a painting. You look at it intently once or twice when you get it, and then it becomes decoration. It's even below background music. I mean, even when you go to an exhibit, it's like you go in, you see the painting, and then you move on. And you're like, oh, yeah, I saw that.

I saw that painting. And then you move on with your life. Right. It's not like even if the artist is there, you're like, oh, yeah, I saw that. I saw that painting. And then you move on with your life. Right. It's not like even if the artist is there, you're like, that sucked. Right. Right. Redo it. Apropos of the audience wanting to always hear new stuff,

is it me or are comics more prolific than they used to be? This idea of coming up with my new hour, you know. I don't think they're all quality, but I think because of social media eating up all your material so quickly, putting it on TikTok or whatever the hell, the Instagram, I resent social media so much. I mean, I went

on the road. I was on the road. I had once, we had no phones, we had no computers, we had no FaceTime. We had nothing. I brought a two cup coffee maker from Zay bars and some ground coffee. And I had a one suitcase that was a junk drawer. It was literally my books, my notebooks.

I brought my clarinet. Like I would just, you had to, you had to do the work you had to get on stage that night and be prepared it wasn't like oh I'm gonna make I think people are putting out

less quality stuff because in the name of satisfying the demand for new material right and I think it takes a long time to really make your act as great as it can be I've seen so many people do specials and they're brilliant and then they get another special a year later and they've eaten up all their material they worked 10 years for and they're not prepared. And I think it lowers the standard of comedy, you know, but who the hell knows? I mean. Well, it's necessarily, you're not going to come up with the same quality in a year that you came up with. Right. But, you know, but Dan,

there are club owners, not at the cellar, but I've talked to club owners where they, they see someone has a viral video and they want to do standup and they'll hire them for the weekend and sell out. And these people have no idea what they're doing. And that's their, that's that, that audience's experience with standup. Will they go back to another club after seeing someone who's not a standup? Like the fact that Stormy Daniels is like, Oh, I'm going to go do standup. It's like that kind of thing. Judy, I have to admit, I was ready to put her on.

Really? Yeah, I just think it would be interesting. Like, I'm not a snob. Yeah, I would like to see it. Yeah, but I'm just saying the fact that she's going to get a million people or she'll sell out. And some comedian who's been working for 20 years is a really skilled comic trying to build their audience isn't going to get the gig. Well, that's another critical difference between music and comedy is that people – nobody assumes they can play guitar if they've never picked one up. But of course everyone thinks they can do

stand-up. But – And the shit people say to stand-ups after their shows. Like, there is no – there are no boundaries. They tell you jokes. They tell you what they think of their – and it's like, get the fuck away from me. Shut the fuck up. You know, I wouldn't have done – shut your fucking mouth. You know what I didn't like? No, and I don't care. Well, I actually did a joke years ago about date rape, and I was, after the show was reprimanded by an audience member,

and I just made the executive decision never to do the joke again. Are you going to do the joke? Yeah, I'll do the joke. The joke is, you know, date rape, I thought that meant when you force a woman to go on a date with you, you know, you're like, you're like, get into that movie theater and sit in the front row and strain your neck because you like it rough. That was the joke. Somebody so somebody said to me, you know, rape is not funny. And I just said, you know what?

I didn't think I don't feel I was making light of rape. It was just a play on words. But I didn't want to hear it from other. It's going to offend somebody. I was like, fuck it. I don't feel I was making light of rape. It was just a play on words, but I didn't want to hear it from other... It's going to offend somebody. I was like, fuck it. I don't need the joke. I'll do without it. But I wasn't taking any kind of, you know...

I didn't feel like taking a stand. Right. Well, I think that's what Judy was saying, right? Like, you have to be careful now about what you say if you don't want to, quote unquote, ruffle people's feathers. Or you say, like, no, I'm going to keep making that joke because. Because my intent is blank. And if you take it that way, that's the way you're taking it.

And that's about you. It's not what I am trying to say. And that's just. Yeah. I mean, everyone, every moron's opinion is valid now because we have social media. Well, that's really the the the. And as I said, I think the major difference, I don't think people are any less liable to be offended than they ever were. But they now have a outlet to gang up on you. Right, you can tell two friends, oh, I saw this comedian. They sucked. I didn't like them.

They did a joke about blah. And that would be the end of it. But now you can get on social media and, you know, it's the same with restaurants i mean like the there wasn't a table for you so you're gonna fucking write a terrible review and ruin that person's livelihood it's worse than that i get people who complain about something often they have a legitimate complaint they'll they'll put it on google and then they'll contact me and say if you give me a refund i'll take down my complaint no fucking way yeah yeah yeah i i i i well i just had that recently and um first of all they're so stupid i would i would have taken

care of them anyway but anyway um i've heard of blackmail, but black email? Hey, now. Google has a facility for the owner to contest a review. And the category I chose was that there was a legal problem. And I wrote that the customer is extorting. And I think Google took it seriously because I think the customer said they were being investigated now by Google. I'm like, good for you. Good for you.

Wow. They don't know who they're dealing with with Noam. What's that? What did you say? I said they don't know who they're dealing with. Judy, by the way, did you hear the news about the Comedy Cellar expansion? Yes. I don't know who they're dealing with. Judy, by the way, did you hear the news about the Comedy Cellar expansion? Yes! For those of you who haven't listened to previous episodes,

Noam bought the McDonald's on 6th Avenue and West 3rd Street, and the Comedy Cellar is expanding. Noam, is there any... Last time we spoke, I guess you just said you were starting to work with the architect. Are you going to keep any of the McDonald's like stuff, like anything for the walls or anything? All of it. It's going to look like

McDonald's. Shut up. You got to get something. We're gutting the whole thing. There is this kind of iconic basketball mural that they have up there on the mezzanine that people seem to be attached to. I don't know what to do with it. I could sell it on eBay, give it to a charity. I don't know. I thought I could

put it outside of my backyard. We have a little basketball hoop, but I'm told it's paper mache, not plastic. So anyway, yeah, we're getting... I have to get the demolition permits together. I'm trying to settle on contractors and stuff. I'm a little worried about... How many seats will it pay?

200 seats. I'm a little worried- Wow, that's so exciting. I'm a little worried about the rumblings that the banking system may be a little bit of a, have a little issue right now and how that might affect my ability to get financing that I need,

but cross that bridge when I get to it. I love it. I don't want to have to go to my mom. It's so weird because when I went to LA in the 91, 92, and then I lived there when I was on a series and stuff. And I was working at the comedy store, and they had three rooms. And I had never seen a club with three rooms and I would go from room to room to room I would have like you know four spots five spots and and it was and each room had its own audience I mean the belly room was the greatest because I just loved it

Mitzi would give me Friday nights at eight it It was so fun. I learned so much and I really developed my act. But I love going from room to room at the Cellar. I love it. And they all have their own personalities. And what's your favorite? Okay. I have to say I have so many memories of the Cellar. The original.

Oh, my God. I started working there in 87. I used to sit in the back with, oh my God, that borscht with the boiled potato. I would sit in the back with Daryl Hammond and he would get on stage and what's his name? Bill Grunfest was there and what's his name would also play the piano, Charles Zucker. And just like Ray and Attell. It was, I don't know, it wasn't packed. We took so many risks. Yeah. We would egg each other on um it was really such a create it was a room full of creativity and warmth and just i don't know we're like i still like i still walk in like you walk

in there and i'm like oh my god like this is home it's home when I I will be so fucking miserable um I know that's shocking um and you know I I suffer from depression anxiety but when I have a set and I get to it's I just walk in there and I'm just like, thank you. Thank you. I just, this is where I belong. I don't know. I love that. So I have so many memories in that room. By the way. I also love the underground.

Yeah. Oh, I forgot to answer an email. But on the subject of Attell, I went into the cellar the other night, late night, and Attell was doing his spot. I hadn't been down there in a while. And this guy, I mean, he's got to be about my age, a little bit younger. I'm 60. This guy had the full charisma.

Everybody in that room and every staff member and all the comedians just hanging on every word. It is unbelievable what a force he is and continues to be and he was so goddamn fucking genius funny oh yeah that guy is he is a national treasure it's not sufficiently known in the united states of america what a genius he is it was just amazing i was there the first time he ever went on stage i was emceeing at comedy u

grand he was at myu and he came in and i remember one of the jokes he said everyone has i mean i'm paraphrasing but he said this joke uh everyone has an eating disorder now. The other day I walked by Macy's and the mannequins had their fingers down their throat. And I was like that is so fucking funny. And he got off stage. He's like oh that was horrible. I go you are so funny. I was like you are so fucking funny.

And yeah he would come back to he would come to Comedy U Grand. I used to date the daughter. I used to date the daughter, I used to date the daughter, the stepdaughter of the guy. Owner? Was he actually the daughter? The daughter.

The owners were Bert and Paul. Maybe it was Bert. I forget which one. Her name was Lisanne McKenzie, so the dad's father must have been McKenzie. I don't know. She was super hot. I'll tell Juanita.

But did you know that Michael Chiklis was the bartender and he was dating this woman and the woman's father was like, he's a bartender at a comedy club. And she broke up with him and he was so sad. And then he got that part as John Belushi in the movie and, you know, moved on to become a huge star. And every time I see him, he is just the warmest person. Every comic says, you know, whenever I see Michael Chiklis, he is the nicest, most wonderful. Yeah. But he was the bartender at. I don't know who that is, but I have to go.

He's the commish. Whatever. I have to go. I miss you. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think. Yeah.

I think it's about. Ariel didn't say a fucking thing this whole podcast well you guys had a lot to talk about I don't need to talk just to hear myself speak to hear your nasal Jewish nasality of deviated septums

okay so let me just say before I go congratulations to Judy Gold. Thank you. Her show is fucking phenomenal. I hope it has the run and the success that it deserves. She has every reason to be extremely, extremely proud. And by the way, Judy, one more thing.

I was very, very impressed at the way you remembered all your lines because I know at our age, that's quite a challenge. Oh, God. 50 minutes. I know. 70 minutes of lines. 80 minutes. So, yeah. 78.

Judy, where can they get tickets to your show? You can go to my website or it's 59E59.org. The name of the theater is 59E59. It's 59 East 59thorg. The name of the theater is 59E59. It's 59 East 59th Street. But you can go on judygold.com or 59E59.org. I find this whole thing at the end of a show, giving out your Twitter handle, all this stuff,

to be really, like, you just Google Judy Gold tickets or Google Dan Adam on Twitter. So many people text me, how do I get tickets? I don't know. How'd you get tickets for Springsteen? You fucking found them online. People ask me, are you at the Comedy Tower tonight? And I say, well, you could check the website.

Yeah. People don't seem to do that. Anyhow, thank you, Judy Gold.