The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Judy Gold & the Waitstaff

Episode Date: September 17, 2018

Judy Gold is a legendary New York City-based standup comedian. She may be seen regularly performing at the Comedy Cellar.

Okay, good evening everybody. You want to try your thing? Jenna, you want to sit here so you can hear better? Where were you coming from? Of course not. Go ahead, let Jenna sit there a little bit. Where? Harlem.

Where? 147. Where are you? 92nd. But my girlfriend just bought a place at 124, so I'm going to move there. Fifth. Joyelle, just let her get in first. Or should I wait until you're done?

Steven, let her sit down. We're holding it up. Let her go. Okay. Does that work? I think that's it. That's fine. Jenna? Jenna so

anybody want anything to drink I'll just take a bottle of water Angelica are you the waitress here? Can you bring them? I think they want some water. Ah, what does that feel like? You want some, Judy?

Just the pool. I have some water, thank you. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. Dan Aderman is here, but he's at the bar because... He's not happy. I think this is going to be the last show that we're doing about this. We're trying to be as transparent as

possible about what went on and to show the I don't know, to show the world what went on and why we did it and how we're reacting to it. So one of the, in the very negative, I would describe it undramatically as hate mail that I've gotten, many people asked about the issue of unsafe work environment.

How did your staff feel? What was the reaction? And I tried to impress upon people, you know, I'm nervous all of a sudden. I tried to impress upon people that I had been very proactive about speaking to, um, the waitresses, the comedians and all that. And of course, one of the answers is, uh, always, well, they're, they're just going to say whatever they have to say because you're the boss. And that's not a ridiculous suspicion. So I asked Judy Gold, who I, now Judy and I haven't spoken about this. So, and we spoke, can we?

Yeah. So Judy and I spoke on the phone about this issue, but we didn't speak about this show. And I want to say at the top I'm amazed that Judy based on our conversation I'm surprised that you agreed to do it because it's controversial oh please and wait can I just say something

about the comedy cellar I don't feel that Noam's the boss thing at all I think it's pretty open here and people say whatever the fuck they want. I do think there's dialogue here.

Well, we'll have to wait just a second. Ted Alexandro did go on stage and say welcome to the Comedy Cellar, a place where you can be a sexual predator and as long as you're famous, it's okay. I took that as a compliment because I would like that level of open conversation here as long as it's funny. And I've encouraged many of the comedians to go on stage and talk about it.

Whatever you think about it, talk about it. Don't worry about me. So anyway, Judy, can you engage them? These are the waitresses. I don't know if they want to say their names or not. But the waitresses. I don't know if they want to say their names or not. But the waitresses who were here, one waitress called out

at the last minute. Engage in a conversation that, you know, to ask them how they felt, what they say, what they feel about Louis coming back. All of it. No holes barred. Go ahead. Well, first of all, I had like an epiphany. And tell me if I'm wrong.

But I've read a lot about this. And we talked about it. And a lot of comedians are saying he's getting a second chance. A second chance. And I don't think of it as a second chance. Everyone already knows who he is. Now he's entering his arena as a tainted sexual predator. So now his whole life on stage is going to be different. It's going to be different.

As I mentioned, the one thing that pissed me off is he gets to bump people, and then the person after him has to fucking deal with that shit. But is anyone else having weird headphone issues? Oh, I can't hear anything. So,

yeah, so I feel like he's, I don't think it's a second chance, and I think he's entering the unknown. And I think the fact that he didn't address it, which it is the elephant in the room, and that's what comedians do,

that to me was a missed opportunity. But I feel like... And a slap in the face actually to the people who feel strongly about this I mean acknowledge what's going on you've been trying to you know let's face it he's been thinking about it for a long long time

when do I get back on stage everyone is thinking is he going to talk about it is he going to talk about it and he doesn't talk about it that I think was the thing that if you is he going to talk about it? Is he going to talk about it? And he doesn't talk about it. That, I think, was the thing that if you think I'm wrong, then let me know.

That's the thing that I think really pissed people off. Because here it is. You've been hanging out. It's not like he hasn't come in here. You've been feeling out the situation. When you felt comfortable enough. He had dinner here

like I think three times over the last year. Go ahead. Then you just got on stage and didn't talk about it. Someone who talks about everything. And more than that

and he alluded and he talked about some themes which were he can't he talked about he had a play on words

about rape things are whistles are not clean clean is a whistle rape whistles are not clean. I don't even know if I got the joke, but just to do that. It shows some sort of disconnect in my mind.

Some disconnect that do you realize what happened and do you realize how many people it affected? So obviously... And disconnect from his own best interest. Right, but you think of him as such a brilliant guy and the fact that people it affected. So obviously. And disconnect from his own best interest. Right. But, I mean, you think of him as such a brilliant guy. And the fact that it's so obvious and yet he is like, I'm just going to go back up and be the, it's not going to work anymore.

And that is not a second chance. That is going to be his career from this point on. That's what I feel like. But I feel like you guys, the waitresses here, have dealt with him for years and years and years. It's not like he came in, right? And it was a different person. Linda's been here a long time.

Linda is so awesome on so many levels. We've known each other 25 years, Linda and I. So she knows my essence actually. And then Kelly and Amanda are relatively new here and don't really know me almost at all. Which is good for you guys.

And who's the best tipper? Judy Gold. Okay. Which is a nice variation of opinion here because you guys can say how you perceive the coming in new. And Linda also has context of many other situations that I've been in. But Linda's been in this business for 30? Take it easy.

I know. I mean, I've known you for so long. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. About 30. Yeah. So she knows comics.

I mean, when you're around comics all the time, you get the whole program here. Yeah. Yeah. So I prefer you. I mean, when you're around comics all the time, you get the whole program here. Yeah. So I prefer you to, I mean, I can start the ball rolling. The first question is, I think everybody's mind, is did I fail in my, actually

my responsibility by making you guys feel unsafe at work? You want to start with Amanda? No, I definitely didn't feel unsafe. No, I haven't felt unsafe when he was here. And I don't think that's your fault or anything. Like, I don't think it should fall on you really.

Nice tits! Kelly, did you... That was my sexual harassment. No no i have not felt unsafe either um i feel like this is talking to mike it's been a very like this situation being put upon us and being new here i don't i never felt unsafe like i feel like i was upstairs i wasn't downstairs in the cellar when louis came but like you were here when he i was here i was here upstairs. I wasn't downstairs in the cellar when Louis came. But you were here when he was up here? I was here, yes. But I wasn't downstairs working the show.

I was upstairs working the restaurant. But he was in both rooms, that's... No, I do believe he just came... Oh, he didn't sit up here? Oh, he didn't come upstairs. Oh, usually he does. Fair enough. So he just came in through downstairs.

So I didn't actually get to see Louis. I didn't interact with him at all. But from upstairs, I did hear the ovation from when he did walk in. I could hear it from upstairs. So it does give me the... People were excited for him to back. People want to know what he is going to do because, like you said, Judy,

that it is going to be a different point from now on. Like it's not a second chance. It's not necessarily a comeback but more of like a redemption and a choice and a time to allow him to be the better person that he is supposedly trying to become. Right. So now I had asked you and I said, what did you think about Louis coming back? And you said, you know, I'm hard of hearing, so I thought you said horrified. Do you remember that?

No, I believe that was Kim said that. Oh, was it Kim? That was the mix-up with Kim. She told you the story? I was right there. We were both standing there when you guys started having the conversation. But actually, she was like, I'm thrilled or something, and my heart dropped.

Kim is here. Can you get Kimberly over? So, okay, so would you like to suggest a question? Okay, so you don't feel unsafe. And let me say why I don't think you're unsafe and why I think it's okay. Because there's no private spaces here. There's no green room. You can either sit at the table where we are now in front of everybody

or go downstairs on the stage in front of everybody, number one. Right. Number two, in 30 years, Louis has never done anything like that here. So it would be kind of shocking and really a sign of true mental illness, I believe, for him to start now. Three. Kimberly, come on. And I forgot three now. But can you tell the story about when I asked you?

Maybe you don't want to. I didn't get your permission before. You know that story when I asked you and you didn't understand what I said? Oh, oh. Talk in the mic. Go ahead. When you asked how I felt about... Come closer. Come closer. Oh, this close. Yeah. Is this good? Yeah, it's good. Okay, I don't have headphones in. I apologize.

So yeah, it was the Monday after. As close as you can, yeah. The Monday after it happened. It was, yeah, it was like literally the day, and you would ask, like, how do you feel about him being there and i said fine or like more than fine but then you thought i said mortified oh that's it you said i'm more than fine about it like that's fine but and then you were so concerned you're like wait sit down

let's talk about this further i'm like really because i said i'm fine we don't have any more to discuss yeah yeah so so the the point that I, the position I find, the unpleasant position I find myself in is to try to defend my name to a bunch of hate attacks on the internet from people who have never walked in here. And the whole guy Branham thing came up again, how we don't use women,

how we don't use gays. Oh, God. I've been here since 1987. And I'm a lessee and a Jew and a gay. Oh, no, I'm a gay and a woman. I don't even know what I am anymore. And, you know, I backed down from having Vulture correct that stuff

after Branham had actually basically admitted here that it was just a metaphor and it wasn't literal or whatever. And I shouldn't have because then it came back to haunt me again and there's a stark difference between the way people who have actually met us

and worked here and actually interacted with us are talking about us and the people who've never been here most of the time even on the west coast and I criticize the writers

because like so you just pass it off as fact you just pass it off as fact. They just pass it off as fact. It's so upsetting. Right. Fake news. Well, go ahead. What else comes?

Open discussion. Anything you want to say. And please, if you had to criticize something about me and the way I handle this. But were you not asleep? I was asleep, but I would have put him on. I would have. Of course. Yeah. The only reason, that's one of the things I've gotten in trouble with,

that he claims he was asleep. They put the claim in there. I was like, no. Actually, when I gave a statement to the Times, I didn't even mention that I was asleep. They insisted on knowing where I was when I thought, so I told them I was sleeping. And then that became the story. Dwarven tries to pretend he. Right. So I told them I was sleeping. Right. And then that became the story. Dwarven tries to pretend he was sleeping, but I told them.

Right. I specifically told her that's not the point. Because I knew they would then use that as if I was trying to weasel out of it. The truth is, I woke up, I saw the text, I was happy because I thought this was going to be a good thing. Right. It never crossed my mind that this genius was going to go up there, not mention it, and do a set. That is what is so shocking. Because I believe, to this day, and then the person who originally wrote,

by the way, the person who originally complained to the Times, came in that weekend, none of you saw him, him and his wife came in and apologized to me for the overreaction going on after they read the Hollywood Reporter interview. And they came to me and said, listen, we're even ready to talk to the press for you. That's what they said. I said, I'll do it.

You know, I think it's up to the audience to let him know where he stands. And that's what being a comic is anyway, is you don't know what's funny until you get on stage. And he needs to see where his place is in this world by, you know, people don't want to watch him, then they can get up

and leave. That's been my feeling about it is that the anger of the meat, the righteous anger, I'm not just saying of the Me Too movement and the way women are treated, the way my daughter's going to be treated, the way my wife has been treated in the workplace, not just when she worked for me. That anger to the people who believe that Louis fits that category,

they feel the audience shouldn't want to see him. Why the fuck does this audience want to see him? It infuriates them because the audience wanting to see them. No, it's that person who doesn't want to see him, and they don't have to. No, but they believe that the audience, that the fact that the audience claps for him, they probably wouldn't clap for Cosby. The fact that they clap

for Louis means they don't get it. That we still haven't been able to get the world to understand our situation. But the audience, they do clap for him. So then they say, then they say, Louis, you should punish yourself. You should stay home until we're ready for you. How are we knowing you're ready?

We'll let you know. And, of course, nobody's going to punish themselves. So the final last-ditch point in this pipeline is Dwarven's got to make sure he doesn't go on. You have to prevent this man from having his access to the world. No, no. And then all that anger comes out at me. And I'm like, this is 15 years ago across the country, not in my workplace. I can't interview any of the parties.

It's a rule which is not being applied across the board to other performers. It doesn't apply to Chris Brown. It doesn't apply to Mike Tyson. It doesn't apply to a former president. Or the current president. Or the former president. Or the current president. Or the current president. And, but somehow, I, Dwarven, I should do this. When charity organizations don't do it, when left-wing, when feminists were writing essays in favor of Bill Clinton, they didn't get it. But I am, and I'm saying no, this is for the audience to decide, and I will make sure that the audience is in there against their will,

and I'll make sure that my workers feel safe. It's like telling a painter he can't paint or a writer that they can't write. It's their art. The only place where he can do his art is in a club. And if you own a club, or if you're a female, or if you're a feminist, and you don't want him on your stage, that's your prerogative. Because you know,

I just gotta get cancelled because they're pro-Trump. Something I've been booked nine months ago. That's terrible. Right. I never said I was going to do Trump material. What the fuck is going on in this world? You can't have conversations. Now, Joyelle is one of the newer comedians here.

She's been here like a year and a half. And I don't know. And I spoke to her. Listen, people don't believe me. But you guys kind of, I've been really reaching out almost one by one to everybody I knew. I called, I don't, I'm afraid, you know, I'm afraid to say names and people think I'm afraid to say names because I'm lying. I'm afraid to say names because I don't want to get them in trouble. Right. There is this sense of, you know, I feel a sisterhood no matter what your opinion is, you know.

But I feel, look, I'm friends with, like, I sit here at the table with Nick DiPaolo. We couldn't be more polar opposite. And I love the guy, you know. So I don't, I mean, if you're doing this to make yourself feel better, that's one thing. But if you're doing it to have an open dialogue and make everyone else here feel comfortable and have their voices heard, that's an entirely different thing. And I think that's to the greater

good. So Joyelle and I spoke, and I would say Joyelle is on the most intensely upset about this of the people I polled. I don't know if I would say I am intensely upset about this of the people I polled? I don't know if I would say I am intensely upset, more so just kind of exhausted with what I told you before

is my general position is that people don't care about women. So I feel like this situation just emphasizes that to where not only did he not seem to have considered this whole entire time what he did. What Judy was saying, he was saying, when do I get back on stage? I feel like that was his mindset versus what did I do? Who did I affect? Who did I hurt? No. When can I get back on stage?

And that's clear in the fact that he got on stage and didn't reference it and went the exact opposite like I told you before and said the word rape. Who would tell you? Leave that word out of your mouth for the rest of time. If it were screenplay, you'd be like, oh, no one's going to believe this.

Right. I mean, the fact that he did release, he tried screenplay, you'd be like, oh, no one's going to believe this. Right. I mean, the fact that he did release, he tried to release a movie that pretty much emphasizes the fact that he does not care. I stole it on the internet. Dan's my co-host, and he's mad,

but Dan, don't be mad. These are important times. Dan, what do you want to say? Dan, we hear from plenty of white guys. If a woman's mad, do you put her on? I'm the co-host. I've been co-hosting for five years.

Oh, all right. But Noam's not here. I fill in. I participate in booking. I participate to a lesser extent in marketing. And Noam is very low to tell anybody to leave the podcast. But me, he told, Dan, sit this one out. I'll tell you why.

Because I wanted... And if I'm that unimportant... Dan, Dan, you're not being... Let's move on. Because it was important. Oh, God, Dan, sit this one out. I'll tell you why. Because I wanted and if I'm that unimportant. Let's move on because it was important. Oh, God, Dan, get over it. We hear this shit all the time. Just say what you want to say. Go ahead. Well, why don't I come to your podcast and replace you? Dan. And see if that sits okay

with you. Okay, well, go ahead. Dan, I have no... Humble being ever so humble, it is I am the co-host. If you don't want me to be the co-host, please let me know. I'll stop doing it. Dan, this is, okay, I'm going to let you speak. What do you want to say about the matter at hand? Pardon?

What do you want to say about the matter at hand? Well, how would I know? I couldn't hear the conversation. Okay. Okay. Dan, listen, I'm going to be very honest. I can't even, I can barely hear you. I don't have my headphones on.

I'm going to be very honest in front of everybody. This is serious. So, in other words, you don't want me, for the good podcast that everybody's interested in, I'm not here. But for Boarsville, some, you know, some. I don't mean serious about that. I mean serious in terms of the, listen, I'm in a situation now where I'm literally afraid about my kids going to school because they are the parents. I'm in a situation now where people are talking about firebombing the place. I'm in a situation now where people are writing all kinds of...

Is that why I'm getting so many spots? No, I'm kidding. Lyndon, we have a mutual friend. I'm so happy that Manny didn't live to see what his son became. I mean, the fucking stuff I'm going through. And these are the people who, you know. In other words, excellent radio. So what I'm saying is just shut up already, Dan.

He's just saying that. Not everything is for your entertainment. He has an agenda today, and he's sorry that you're not the co-host. But it is difficult, especially when you're getting attacked and your family's getting attacked. But I don't think any of us feel unsafe here. I think it's a bigger picture. It's a bigger picture. And how complimentary have I been this entire time?

I want all three waitresses together in case they want to contradict each other. And we ran out of mics. This is what we need to organize. I assume there's other mics in existence. You think Louie's easy to deal with? This is what comedians are like. So go ahead. Go ahead.

There's no other mics? Enough. So go ahead, Judy. I do. You know, there is this. I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, but, you know, he walks in here. Yeah. He still has the same status as he had before, so he can walk in and just go on and bump whomever.

He assumed that. No one ever told him that. Right. Yes. And he got, like, look, we are comics. We all get up there because we need this. We need the love and the adoration and the laughs. And he got that in a way.

But this isn't the real world. I mean, when I come... Oh, sorry, I just undid my mic. You undid your mic? No, no. You undid your headphones. When I come to the Comedy cellar, and I think all the comics, I'm sure you

feel this way too, it's like we're home. You know? We're like ugh. Like you go on the road and you can't wait to get back to doing a set here. And I think that this is the safest place he could have gone and actually said

something or acknowledged and he didn't do it. And I think that says more about him than it does about you. You're running a business. This is a comedy club. This is where comedians come to do their work. And God only knows, I know I walk in here and I see plenty

of comics who have been assholes. And I don't say, hey, know him. This guy grabbed my boob, or this guy... Oh, please. So listen, let me go to the next topic.

And this I do want Dan and Joyelle. I want you to come listen. And then you guys don't have a mic, but why don't you share a seat with Linda? Or sit here. Just sit right there. And Amanda will give you the mic.

Just sit down there. Take a mic. Take a chair. This is like a fucking psycho. Please don't be a prima donna. I don't have a headset. Just sit there. I can barely hear.

Okay, so much of the criticism, much of the criticism has been along the lines that the comedy seller represents the power structure in the industry and we are somehow, I want to state the argument fairly and I'm having trouble, but I'll tell you what my answer has been. And you guys, Judy, you know better than Joyola. I'm like, I don't deal with the industry. I don't know anybody in the industry. This started out, as Judy and Linda know, it started out as a place that was empty all the time.

Oh, yeah. And it was a family business. Like, in the family business, like in the most, like, corny, like, family business type of way. Oh, yeah, I know, yeah. My father, his wife, Esty, Esty was, Esty's the booker Esty was the wife of the accordion player in my father's band growing up. Esty used to sit downstairs

in the chair and watch every show. And this little thing, Mushrooms, especially in the last ten years into something which has a which they say is the most prestigious comedy club, blah blah blah, blah. But throughout that entire growth, I've gained no new contacts with the industry.

The only industry contacts I have are the people who became famous, like Judy, who became famous, started working here, and I still know them. But the most friendly conversation Judy and I have ever had is because we know we have a common friend. And I'm called to answer for the industry, like that they were blackballed. I'm like, I don't know anything about anybody ever being blackballed. I don't even know how that works. Maybe in the movie industry, the television, maybe this stuff goes on. What would I know about it here at the Comedy Cellar? And so, Joyeux, Dan, Judy, you're comedians.

What do you know about this blackballing in the industry thing and how it relates to the Comedy Cellar? How we would know about it? How do you find out about it? What have you heard? The whole thing, because this fascinates people. Fascinates me. I mean, when you, when I hear blackballing, I mean, one, a name comes to mind,

Kathy Griffin. And she saw what was happening and she went overseas and did her work and found a place where she could be a comic and came back here stronger than ever. Who blackballed her? Oh, she couldn't work anywhere here. You think she wouldn't have been able to work here? No, no. I think she would have been able to work here. I didn't even know she was black. How would I know?

Who would tell me? She had to work. She was getting threats and death threats. Yeah. It was bad. How does a club owner get the memo when somebody's on the outlist? Well, you're the club owner, but I have not known of any. Club owners don't talk to each other, let alone black ball comedians.

I mean, of course, you would know better than that. When was the last time you sat down with Chris Mazzilli for Ted to Ted? No, we don't talk to each other. But I don't think any club owner would have the nerve. Listen, I'm going to tell you something. I did, not from the industry, I did at one time have one comedian tell me not to use another comedian. And I was very offended by that. What was it?

I don't want to give any— Was there a reason? I'll tell you off the mic. I can't—I'm not sure what the reason—I didn't even know. And I was offended by it, and I didn't even fucking pay attention to it. But it wasn't an industry thing or anything like that. Let me ask you a question. That's the only example I remember.

If a comic came in and was a known joke thief but was pretty well known. We had that. Robin Williams. Right. But you let him on. That was a tough one.

Right. I want you to look me in the eye and say that was a tough decision. It was a tough one. Right. But, you know... I want you to look me in the eye and say that was a tough decision. Well, it was a tough one to... It was a tough one to... It was a tough one because the expediency of the situation was overpowering. How are you going to tell Robin Wood? But the morality of the situation was tough.

And maybe I should have told him no. But the way I finagled out of it was that the comedians, you know, didn't have to go on if they didn't want to. That was something. Comedians would not go on in front of a family. Any comedian protest your allowing of Mr. Robin Williams on stage.

No, nobody protested. The man, say what you will about his joke theory, was a delight. And by the way, we loved him. And that's a good point because when he would come upstairs and sit by the way, we loved him. And that's a good point because when he would come upstairs and sit at the table,

everybody couldn't get enough of Robin Williams. But there are plenty of comics that would not go on in front of him. Yeah, that's true. All right, so let's take someone who's not Robin Williams, who's just a guy like any one of us coming in and putting him for spots

and you know that they're a joke thief. No, if I... But they kill or whatever. No, if it was clear and I had the... Because I've had the accusation one time. Right. But then when I saw the evidence, I was not convinced. Okay.

But if it was clear, yeah, of course I would stop them. And then if there was someone famous who went up to, you know, Linda and was like, hey, you know, nice ass. What would you do? Linda knows. But Linda knows I would fucking go and tell them, Linda. Well, I've always felt safe here. I've always felt safe here. And I also have a very, if I have something wrong with, I will say. And I would go straight to or I would say it to them.

I, you know, if someone is really bothering me or if the situation bothers me, I don't have, I'm not afraid of it. But I understand people that don't, aren't able to do that too. And so I understand when somebody gets like, oh my gosh, I feel this way. Cause I'm, but I'm like, but that's, I understand their position because I'm like, you can't. For whatever reason. And I have for whatever my reasons are. I remember, you might remember

when I was on stage in the WA. I used to play, that's another thing. People think it's all comedy. Like, for a long time, comedy wasn't even the most important room here. Yeah, I know. The Olive Tree was important. The Cafe WA was important.

And the comedy was like the little stepchild. But when I was on stage in the middle of a song, and I saw a customer put his hands on a waitress, and I stopped the song, and I said, get that guy out of here right now. No, this is not

some place that is even that it doesn't respect women in the workplace. This is a place which doesn't respect women in the workplace. This is a place which doesn't quite understand the principle of something that happened somewhere else, not here, reading it in the New York Times and punishing it. But it also mirrors the industry. This is the way it is for us.

And people get free passes. There are many people who get free passes for god knows what reason but they do and it's we're in an unfair industry i have never played the i'm a female comic card ever but it's but you don't mean it's not a legit card no i'm saying but it is an issue it is an issue i've called clubs i. I've called clubs. I remember calling clubs. You know, when I first started, when I was booking my own stuff, you know, how I'd like to work there.

We had a woman here two months ago. She didn't do well. So we're not hiring women. Could you imagine something like that coming out of my mouth? No, but I remember when they wouldn't put two women on a show, two black people on a show. And it was always like, if there was three guys,

it was a show. And if it was three women, it was a special event. And when that stops, and when it's not like hysterical and funny ladies, you know. I like to, we've never done one of those themes.

Right, never. I like to think that we were the place that never did that stuff. Am I right in that? You're absolutely right. Never. And yet I'm being called on the carpet as the national symbol of it.

The very opposite of what I've always stood for and tried to do. And my father always... I mean, the very fucking opposite. It's so angering. They print it like fact. They print it like fact. They print it like fact. And you try to get in touch with the writers, they don't call you back.

You try to correct them, they're not interested in correcting it. They have their narrative, and that's what it's good. And Guy Branum, even though he acknowledges he's never walked in the place, is a more credible source that they'll quote than anybody like Judy Gold, who's worked here for 30 years. It's fucking disgraceful. It's fucking disgraceful. It's fucking disgraceful. That's the way it is.

I just had someone review me and misquote every one of my fucking jokes. I wanted to fucking go there and punch the person's face in. It's horrible. Sorry to get so mad. It's just so upsetting. I mean, because I know how much you care about the comics. I think, because I know how much you care about the comics.

I think that's the social media age, too, that we're living in, that it's like if you see one thing and you hear one thing, 20,000 people are going to jump on it. All right. And we give people a platform. Yeah, we give people platforms who don't deserve platforms. There's a new book that just came out by John Haidt and Greg Lukianoff called The Coddling

of the American Mind that I had an advanced copy of. And everybody should buy it because it talks a lot about this call-out culture, the lack of debate, and it also talks about how we are raising children into this atmosphere that's just going to make it worse in the next generation. Liz, can you come over? So one of the things I don't like to trumpet is that everybody in charge here is a woman, by the way. Everybody. That's also an interesting thing

that you bring that up because Louis, all his you know, the head of his production company was a woman. He gave shows to women. But it's interesting that he did employ women. Well, I mean it could be that Louis had his attitude toward women was ambivalent.

It wouldn't be unheard of or outrageous or ridiculous to suggest that in certain ways he respects women. There's certain women that he respects a great deal. Right. And that he has certain affection for certain women. And at the same time, other women he might treat as sexual objects for his pleasure. You know, I was talking to a friend who's a doctor, a psychologist, and she said it so sounds like a psychiatric problem. That could be helped.

They need the 25th Amendment for comedians. So Liz, come sit down for a second. Liz is our general manager. I love Liz. Woo! Go, Liz! And she's a strong... She works her fucking ass off, Liz.

Strong, independent woman. And by the way, let me just tell a story that I told on the last podcast while Liz was situated about the level of how unfair some of this stuff is. So one of the hate mails I got, pieces of hate mail I got, was from a woman who um who complained about everything obviously and i asked her to read the hollywood reporter interview she read it she said well would you uh be willing to do a fundraiser i think i told you would you be willing to do a fundraiser for this cause and i said absolutely i'd be happy to do a feminist cause i'd be happy to do a fundraiser. The feminist cause. I'd be happy to do a fundraiser for this cause,

and I would be happy to donate all the proceeds, as we've done for other charities before. But I don't want to publicize it from the comedy seller because I don't want to look like I'm pandering. Like, oh, look at me, I'm trying to cleanse myself. I think that would be very transparent. So I said, but I'd be happy to do it. Do you know anybody who could help me with it?

Because I don't know people in that thing. She went on Twitter and said, and relayed the whole conversation. She says, and dude says he doesn't know anybody in the industry. So I'm like, dude, if your Rolodex is that thin, I guess that's the problem. Meaning like, and I said, what answer could she have possibly wanted from me other than, yes, I'd be happy to do it. Yes, I would donate all the proceeds. Yes, I don't even want it to be like, you know, they say the highest form of charity is kind of anonymous. I'm not even trying to get anybody to know I'm doing it in order to like clear my name because I'm not ashamed of anything I've done.

It would imply that I'm ashamed. But you're saying, I'm going to give you my room. And I'll give you the money. Do what you need to do. Can you introduce me to somebody who says, you're obviously quite into this issue, and I don't know these people. And all I got in return was a dude's Rolodex, that's the problem, and she got tons of likes. That was it. But you can't get aggravated over that. And Dan, it's not a feminist issue.

No, no, a feminist fundraiser that he was... But I think it was more about victims of sexual violence. It was a related fundraiser. I said this issue. That's what I said. I didn't hear that and I'm sorry. Unfortunately, I'm still a little bit in my head right now.

You put me in an odd state. Liz. Yes. Free association. What do you want to say about it? Did you feel that anything imposed? If you were the decision maker, if I was dead and you were the boss, or this was Vegas, or this was an owner,

what would you have done if Louis came in? Same thing. Why? Because I'm not a judge or jury and I feel like he's a comedian. This is a comedy club. He has a long history

with this club. As a comedian, as a friend of the club, he's a funny person and yeah, you put him on. I want to say that, I don't know if this helps me or hurts me, Liz is actually to the right of me on a lot of these issues. Would you agree with that? I'm usually the one trying to give Liz

to soften her perspective a lot. I actually don't think his history with the club matters. I think that if I allowed that to enter into it, that that would be something I could be criticized for. Yeah, but I think that if I allowed that to enter into it, that that would be something I could be criticized for. Yeah, but I think

you can't, no, you can't separate that, you know? I try to. Well, but in large, I mean, much of the success of this club, of course, has multiple factors. One of those factors is Louis C.K. having put this club in his TV show. The people

come by, they take pictures, mostly because of Louis' show. Do you not feel any sense of, well, Louis was very, very good to this club? Perhaps. I know the answer. I mean, I have an answer to that. It's, you have to be, there's a two-step, not one-step. It is not loyalty that allowed me to put Louis C.K. on. It's not.

He doesn't, I don't owe, that's not what loyalty is to me. Loyalty does not mean standing by somebody when they're wrong. That's what some people demand, that kind of loyalty. I don't demand that kind of loyalty. I think it's wrong to ask for that kind of loyalty. Another type of loyalty is,

yes, Louis did all this for the club, so I need to make sure that I don't buckle and treat him unfairly because it would be the expedient thing to do. Loyalty demands that I don't buckle and treat him unfairly because it would be the expedient thing to do. Loyalty demands that I do, that I look at it objectively and on principle and examine it from every angle

and if I come to the conclusion that, you know what, I can't come up with a good standard and I don't know what the rules are, then yeah, I would feel particularly shitty doing it to somebody who I have a relationship with. Do you think you have the capacity to be quite that objective?

Well, that's why I've reached out to ACLU attorneys. I've reached out to quite a number of you. You see me here with writers from intellectual magazines. I've been circulated drafts of this. For months, I've been dreading this day. You know that, Dan. I've been talking about basically from the day it happened yeah trying

to get every opinion that i can nevertheless i'm still the guy who just you know you know just would you let bill cosby on no i wouldn't let bill cosby on but but but i and i don't think louis and bill cosby are equal on any no but any. But let's spin that out because I talked about this two weeks ago. Kevin Spacey got acquitted now. You heard it happen today. They dropped charges against Kevin Spacey. And that's an interesting bind now for someone who might want to hire Kevin Spacey because are they supposed to say now,

yeah, I know the law looked into it and said you didn't do anything. I'm not sure what the law is. I've heard stories about him forever and ever and ever. Right. But let's say this is a labor union. Would a labor union ever allow somebody to have their job affected or not affected by somebody saying, well, I heard stories? No. A labor union would be like, hell no.

Right. And this is a liberal left-wing labor union. They'd say no. Nobody gets fired around here unless there's a procedure. You can't just bring up a newspaper. You have to bring in the principles. You have to discuss it. And as I said before, the problem, the thing is that in difficult emotional situations,

you need to cling to these principles for dear life. Because in easy situations, you don't need the principles. If humans were naturally tolerant of opposing speech, we wouldn't need a First Amendment. It would be obvious. If humans were naturally, like, really cared about being fair, you wouldn't need all this due process stuff. But when emotional and difficult situations, when it's, I mean, this is how lynchings happen. When people are mad, this is why we need to cling to our principles.

And when I see this kind of situation, that's what I know. I need to stop here, and I need to examine, okay, what are, somebody tell me what the rules are. Like, what do you think, I don't mean that the rules are written,

but like, just somebody tell me, what do you think ought to be what a guy in my position judges it on. And then I can say, okay, Louis did it, Aziz didn't, whatever it is. Nobody has been able to offer me any rule of thumb whatsoever. I mean, I can think of some. Did it happen in your workplace? Has it happened recently? Has he confessed?

Do you think he's still a threat? These are all, has he been convicted? Is he charged with a crime? I mean, these are all possible things. I mean, he acknowledged it. He published an apology. But he denied the lack of consent. He said, I thought it was okay because I asked.

So are you suggesting that that's something that should be investigated? No. Should or should not be. You can't investigate something that long ago, but I'm saying that listen, if there's some organ, like if there was a lawsuit and the

statute of limitations is not told, that would be great. Sue him. He's rich. That's how people say he needs to make amends. Normally, it's nice if somebody makes amends on their own, but normally that's what lawsuits do. You force people to make amends. Normally, I mean, it's nice if somebody makes amends on their own, but normally that's what lawsuits do. You force people to make amends if they've done something that seriously.

I think, we talked about it before, they should make this more illegal. There's one thing I've learned that we're treating that kind of thing, like whipping your dick out of a mass grave, we're treating it as an indecent exposure. It's quite more serious than that. It's a violation. In the way that we used to treat muggings, when somebody would get mugged, somebody I knew would get mugged,

and they would be traumatized for a year. They couldn't sleep sometimes. Like Ava had her head bashed into the ground, and she had real PTSD about it. Yet the guy just went free. Well, Kelly and Amanda, what do you think about this?

And the point is that we treated muggings way too casually given the... Well, they were called purse snatchers. Whatever it was. That's right.

Given the emotional impact it was having on people who were mugged. Yeah. And clearly we might be treating this kind of thing the same way. Well, I think it's

strata changing the law. We are. Jaleel says we are. We, on the last episode we did, that we might be treating this kind of thing the same way. So let's try to change the law. We are. We, on the last episode we did, looked up the penalty for indecent exposure. I'm not sure what that constitutes in terms of the definition of the crime, but the punishment was $500 maximum fine, no jail time.

Which seems ridiculous given this level of pain caused. Do you think that what Louis did was more traumatizing or less traumatizing than the garden variety Subway Masturbator? I don't want to talk about that. That's not the point of this podcast. The point of this podcast is to get the opinions of the women. I was about to say

ask their opinion on this matter because they haven't spoken. Then ask them. They haven't spoken in a while, so I wanted to include them. Ask them. He knew these people. He invited them up to his hotel room, which is fine. You cannot tell a comic...

That should be off limits. Comics, that's your home. Your hotel room. So when a comic says come to my hotel room, do not say, yo, why'd the women go up to the... Because that's where we live. We're always hanging out in each other's hotel rooms. You say life on the

road when you're hanging out, you hang out in one person's room. I think he has a problem and he did it to people he knew. So that's a different issue. But do you think it's more severe or more traumatizing than being jerked off to on the subway? I don't know.

It is. It's shit. It's both shit. They're both shitty and you can't fucking. No, no, Judy. It is clearly much more traumatizing to be alone in a room with a guy. Right. Than in public in front of ten people.

I mean, to the extent that it's scary. You're not scared in a subway. Also, it's a crazy person. I think it's obvious that maybe if you're alone on the subway late at night, that might be the scariest of all. But I think that if somebody at that next table

was now masturbating, nobody here would be traumatized as they would be if they were alone in a room with him late at night. Go ahead, Joy. I just don't think you can quantify trauma like that because it's going to be relative to each person. Right, exactly. You don't agree? It wasn't my question. I agree. Well, I'm answering the question

because it was asked more than once. I feel like different women go through different things and different people go through different things, so you can't say what's going to traumatize somebody more or less. I don't think that's a valid question even. Well, penalties do in some way

require us to imagine what the average person would react to a certain thing, but the outliers of one can overlap with the outliers of the other. What else on this issue, what are the things that you guys think about? I feel like with

the whole being in a room with him and the like it's it is an abuse of power like it is a predicament like you have to like even in his apology he said that it wasn't i asked for permission but my i put them in a predicament they had to make a choice whether and then but's a split-second choice. You don't know. You might not feel safe, and that's, like Jarell said, that is different for every person. Every person is going to feel, take that differently. Some people might be like, okay, this is, like, okay, it happened, it's fine,

and want to ignore it, which is what happened for a very long time. And now these women are speaking out to make this so women don't have to feel this way and to teach people that you can't, like this isn't an appropriate behavior and this behavior, maybe he needs help for it. Oh, absolutely. But it's also... I think you're missing a whole part

of the picture is that these women thought that this would affect their livelihood. It's not only like they were violated on this sexual... I mean, I think that they feel like, uh-oh, I'm going to get in even more trouble

if I say something or if I... I'm going to get in even more trouble if I, you know, if I say something or if I, you know, I'm going to be like we were talking about before in the business, blackballed. Which, you know, that's the nature of this business, you know? Yeah, and what's interesting here to me is that, A, somebody can be, as Judy is, and I think Joy, very, very upset with what Louis did,

yet still think that I'm not a monster about putting him on. No, I think it was gross, and he's gross, and that was a gross thing, but you can't do your art anymore. Yeah, that's right. And that's what Sarah Silverman said. And B, what I think people will find fascinating, well, I think most people that don't want to,

they'll just say, oh, they're just saying that because he's the boss but to anybody who's I think that's apparently not the case but to anybody who's ready to listen with open mind they'll realize that our bubble here even if our bubble is the immoral one and the wrong one is not the bubble that someone

else may be living in. So when they look at what's, like, my reaction here, which, my reaction seems perfectly kind of at least on the edge of acceptable in terms of all the people who work here and around me.

In another context, they look over at us and say, what is with this monster, you know? And that is because people don't talk. That is because people can't discuss things. But he didn't discuss it. That's the point. And don't you think we'd be talking about something completely different if he came in and went on stage and said, look, this is my home. I did some really fucked up things.

Clearly, I didn't make my point. No, but I'm just saying, wouldn't we be having a different discussion if he had just gone on stage and acknowledged it and apologized and said, I've been doing this and this and this? I think he would have been home free. Right. But he didn't. And that tells more of the story. And I was sure he was going to. Right.

And that's what tells more of the story. Home free, I think, is overstating the case. Oh, no, I think he would have been home free. Well, maybe. It would be a different dialogue in the papers. Kelly and Amanda, when your friends and your family know you work at the comedy... Can I define home free? Meaning that he would be able to continue on with his thing,

and most people would be like, all right, let's see, I did this. I'm getting help, and I'm working. I'm donating the proceeds of my first year of shows to this charity, and I appreciate your kindness in hearing me out, and I'm going to try and earn your trust again. And, you know, especially, you know, like in the animal kingdom, one of the ways to get out of a fight is just to put yourself totally like a prostate in front of the predator, and he leaves you alone.

You have to do that sometimes. Just like, basically, I'm at your mercy. And please, if you wouldn't mind, I want to tell some jokes. And I think that their headlines would have been totally different. Well, if he had said all that, I think that, yeah, that would have gone 99% of the way. Which is home for him. But, as I was saying. I mean, he could have gone on and said, you know, my wrist is feeling so much better lately.

You know, like he could have done something. No, that would have been. You know, like they could have done something. No, that wouldn't have been... You're thinking like a comic, Judy. I was going to ask Kelly and Amanda, their friends and family know that they work here. Have they made any comments to you about it? Or, you know, what do they say about it? In the mic, in the mic.

I've spoken to a couple people, people who back home that they do comedy and I asked their opinions on the situation and they agreed that he needed to come out and say something like put his tail between his legs and apologize again. He needs to apologize

more and more and more because that's the only way people are going to know that you are trying to move forward and make the situation better. It's a missed opportunity. It was a really missed opportunity. Were any of your parents concerned about you working here after they heard that? No.

No? Yeah. No. One thing I've just been, I've talked to a couple friends about is there's, like, two things. There's one that he didn't address it, which would have, like you said, made a huge difference. But two is, even if he did address it, there's this whole thing of, did he wait long enough to come back?

And I almost feel like nobody can really answer that fully yet. And any time I ask somebody, they don't really know the answer. Like, what is the standard for something like that? But I feel like it's situational. Well, it's a new standard. Right, right, right. There is no norm. And when you do stand-up every night of your fucking life, basically,

and then you're like nine months, it seems like. Forever. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. He did say in his, I hate to call it apology, saying whatever that was, he did use the word, I'm going to listen a long time. Right.

Which I didn't remember that. Somebody just read that and I said, oh, you made it even worse for yourself by using the word long. Right. Because nine months doesn't seem long. Right. Maybe a year is the earliest that long could be. But, you know, this level of anger can't be because he waited nine and a half months instead of, could be because of an extra two and a half months made all the difference.

They wouldn't have been happy about it. It's because he didn't say anything. That's what it is, is that he snuck in and said, I'm going to tell some jokes. And it's like jerking off. That's like jerking off right there. If he instead of, no, Noam, what you articulated earlier, saying, thank you for listening.

I'm very sorry. I'm going to donate for a year of my, all of my money to charity and all of that. If instead of saying that, he had simply said something far less, maybe made a joke about it and saying, I'm sorry, but not as extreme as what you had said. How effective do you think that would have been? I don't know. Louis is far more eloquent and more of a genius than I am, and he needed to consider this fully. Well, I would tell you this. He's funnier than you are, no question about it.

It just shows he's a little bit clueless about, you know, he's Lurie's. But I do think you're quite eloquent, quite insightful, and I say that in spite of the fact oh god here we go that you had that you had excluded me from what I thought regarded was my was partially my podcast apparently it's not if there was a podcast that had to

vet an incident that you were in the center of that could have affected the trajectory of your life I would have just said okay no problem then I'll call him when you need me. Listen, there is one other argument I made, and I think it's interesting. And it might have upset people, but I actually do think it's interesting that from the point of view of somebody who feels strongly about this cause. Louis coming back as he did actually gives them the ability

it's a demonstration to the world of what we're talking about. Because when you want to make the point, listen, guys don't get it. Guys don't get it. So now Louis comes back and doesn't say anything at all and you say, listen, this is what we've been fucking been talking about. He still

doesn't get it. And that is an insight into human nature. And I think that increases the resolution of our picture of human nature. And I think that is an unintended benefit, but I think there are always unintended benefits when

you allow things to play out and you don't filter them. I believe that, whether it's speech or anything like that. Censorship, which is really what we're talking about here, censoring him because he's what he did, I think really needs a heavy justification. A heavy justification. I'm not ashamed to say that.

Even if it means tolerating somebody who you really disapprove of, who really did something bad, whatever it is, as long as I don't force somebody to be there that doesn't want to be there, I think it's okay. I think it's okay. I don't get mad. I mean, what really bothers me? Terrorism. I do not get mad

if somebody gives a platform for a terrorist to speak. Other people do. I don't. No, you can't silence people. That's when everything goes to shit. Yeah. So, anything else on your mind? Speak now or hold your peace. Joyelle, you have anything else you want to say?

Did any other waitresses come in and might want to comment? Does Val have anything she wants to say? I'm just wondering if he had done something worse. That seems to be what everybody's saying. What he did wasn't that bad. So, had he done something worse, because that seems to be what everybody's saying, what he did wasn't that bad. So had he done something worse 15 years ago, would you still be fine with him going up? I have.

Because my question is, do you just think since what he did wasn't that bad, you don't care? No, no. I've had that situation. And I don't want to talk about it without exposing it. As a club owner, I still feel the absolute right to do whatever I want here. And there is one, there has been one scenario where I heard about something that was worse and longer ago. And I said, I'm not comfortable with that guy here. And I just, I didn't make, I didn't tell him anything.

I just stopped booking him. But that's my own choice. I don't feel I was obligated. Did he ever ask you? No, no, no. I don't feel obligated. He might have figured it out. Right.

I don't feel obligated to do it. I don't judge the club down the street if they use him. I think that we have a criminal justice system and a civil system and we have employers who are responsible for the workplace safety. And actions taken beyond that are going to end up getting things wrong. If you look at the criminal justice system and all the examples of people with all that thorough testimony investigation are still convicted as guilty when they were innocent. Just imagine

what it's going to be if employers are now expected to be passing judgment on anybody that somebody puts in front of the nose and say, you know, this guy did this and this guy did this and I read this and this and this. And now we're creating a president and, you know, you're the guy who's supposed to deal with this. This is your job. Get a hold of yourselves, everybody. That's not the world

we want to move towards. That is not a good outcome. That's not, in my opinion. And I'm open to, I have another meeting tomorrow with another attorney. I'm open to hearing it. But the more and more I find what I'm saying going up against people who disagree with me. And the more and more I hear them coming back and mentioning my race, my privilege, my blah, blah, blah, blah, and pretending that I didn't even make the arguments that I made, the more and more I feel that I may be onto something here and that this just may be a very unpleasant example of where principle is hard to swallow because I have

children. I don't want their bosses being able to fire them because somebody says, hey, I heard he did this. And as I said, no union would allow it, so it's not a right wing point of view I'm expressing. So you don't think what he did was that bad? I didn't say anything like that.

No, I'm asking. Yeah, I think it was bad. Okay, that's what I, because I feel like the thing that people are upset about, and this is my assumption from listening to people reading the articles, is if you guys let him get on stage, it means you do not think what he did was that bad.

No, it doesn't mean that at all. But that's what it says if you let him get on the stage and work in your club. Well, that's what I said when I said to Ted Alexandros, I said, Ted, if you confess something to me 15 years ago, that you did 15 years ago, would you tell me to get, would I tell you to get the hell out? He said, I did it, I shouldn't have done it,

and I don't do it anymore, and I'm ashamed of myself. I said, nope, you did it. I think you better go collect. And I don't do it anymore. And I'm ashamed of myself. I said, nope, you did it. I think you better go collect welfare because I'm not going to hire you. And by the way, nobody should hire you. But on the other hand, a dude walks in here and is an ex-con. And people say, oh, my God, you're so progressive that you give a guy with a checkered past a second start on life. This guy right here, this picture here, this guy was a violent criminal. Which one?

John Capolino. Oh, right. He was a violent criminal that we gave a second chance to. Am I ashamed of that today? That was bad. A violent criminal. But by the logic of what I'm hearing, I should be ashamed of myself. I should have never given him a job.

That's what I'm faced with. Well, the good news is that business is still booming. He died, by the way. And the audience, if it's any indication of what comedy club goers think, they're coming, still in large numbers.

I don't know. Jesus Christ. What? First of all, we don't know that. Second of all, whatever. I don't want to say anything taunting. All right. I'm just saying. You know, it's also the messenger.

Well, I'm just saying you've been criticized and called this, that, and the other thing and threatened, but you have to realize that that's a relative small number of people. Most people do not think that way about you or this club. That was the point that I was making. It's a significant number of people. It's a significant number of people who go from various places in the spectrum, including never coming here again. But I think that

because he's here and now he's gone, if he was performing here every night, if he really came back and started coming here every night, I think that might actually... Do you think he knows what's going on here? Do you think he's aware of the fact that his appearance here has caused all of this ruckus? I think that he is aware now.

I don't think he was aware for a few days. Okay. Well, I think he also seems to be unaware because he came in and didn't acknowledge it. So he seems to be unaware. And I think as he becomes more aware, we'll know more. But, Noam, you didn't acknowledge it. So, like, he seems to be unaware, and I think as he becomes more aware, we'll know more. But, Noam, you didn't finish your thought. You said if he started to come here every night,

and you didn't finish your thought. Then I think we would have an issue with business. I worry we would have an issue with business. I don't believe that to be the case. But it's not the point. I mean, it's true that if business goes bad, I might have to bend, but I'm trying to keep this analysis

on the philosophical plane and that's as best I can. I would just say I think that the cat's out of the bag and that anybody, that most people coming here expect that at this point that he might drop in or at least think it's a possibility.

Yeah. I don't think we're going to be seeing him anytime soon. That's why I say that I don't think him being here more regularly would affect business because I don't know that. Well, let me tell you something. If he goes up there again and does more jokes mentioning rape and doesn't say anything again, I don't think audiences, I think audiences will not want to see him.

Oh, absolutely. They might give him another chance. I can't even, you cannot overstate the, you know, you never get a second chance at a first opinion or a first impression. It can't be overstated what a mistake he made, I don't think. And Mike Birbiglia just sat down beside me. I just wonder if he might have any thoughts. Mike Birbiglia. No, no, no.

I really enjoy all of you. I have not heard anything that's transpired. You all seem like great folks. Make sure to see Mike Birbiglia's new one-person show at the Cherry Lane Theater. And the name of that show, Michael? It's closed.

The name of the show is It's Closed. I also think you know the when it comes it's just an interesting phenomenon because you're white men and you see the world differently or you walk through the world differently than we do. And women, you can say that we're emotional, which we are, but we've also been treated a lot differently and we have to deal with a lot of shit so I think that that's where a lot of the emotion comes from from this

what can and spit it out to all people in my position because I've talked about this many times that I think it's very very hard to devise any system which overcomes the fact that women or anybody in this situation just would sometimes just rather keep it to themselves. They don't want to be that person. We don't want to be that person.

So I said this in the last podcast. Like my wife said to me, she says, we have a daughter, she says we're going to have to sit down with our daughter and have the same talk with her that black families have to have with their sons about how to handle the police that's what my daughter said to me and I thought that was a very, very smart thing my wife said. Not even the police just driving at night

no, she meant in other words when you're in that one-on-one situation so, yeah so, I mean, I don't want to air out Dirty Love, but you know about the other incident

where I did try to investigate and I got, you know, really, really, people got really upset with me for investigating. But you know about that. So, it's like you don't know

what the answer is. And what the Me Too movement, if I could be so bold, needs to accomplish, they need to break through this reluctance that women have to come forward. Because even in a safe space like this, where nobody thinks they're going to get in trouble for coming forward, people say, you know, it's embarrassing to me. I don't want to say it.

I'm the same way. When something really upsets me, I don't want to talk about it with anybody. Okay, anything else? Do I want the salmon? When something really upsets me I don't want to talk about it with anybody Okay anything else Do I want the salmon Salmon's very popular I don't do popular Ladies and gentlemen I can't thank you enough

And I'm happy you speak your mind Joyelle I want to say on the air What I told you off the air So people know I told you Go on stage and say anything you want about Louis Bash me any way you want as long as it's funny. Didn't I say that? Yes.

I enjoyed the Dan Natterman meltdown. Yes, I enjoyed it. A little bit of everything on this podcast. Tragedy and farce. Well, I'm glad that there might have been an upside to it. It certainly was not faked or forced.

It was quite real. No, no, no, no. It was definitely genuine. Yet he can't imagine someone else reacting to something in a way that he wouldn't. Okay, we have to end. We're at one hour. Thank you very, very much, everybody.

Thank you. Good night, everybody. Ay-yi-yi. You're not working, are you? No.