The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Justin Peters, Ray Ellin, and Paul Mecurio

Episode Date: January 5, 2018

Justin Peters is a correspondent for Slate Magazine. He authored a recent story on how he watched nothing but Fox News for three consecutive weeks. Ray Ellin and Paul Mecurio are New York City-based standup comedians. They may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. My name is Noam Dwarman. We're at the back table of The Comedy Cellar with two of our... We have three guests, but two of them are of our most, like, truculent guests, kind of like our best of truculent 2017. Mr. Paul Mercurio, who was responsible for one of our great, greatest episodes where he walked out in a huff and was radio gold, had a fight with Dan, but Paul has his own mic today. Paul is an attorney. He went to my safety school, Georgetown University. Every time.

Every time. That's true. And then Ray Allen, what's your credential? What's my title? I'm a comedian, a host, a producer, the king of Aruba. Whatever you want to say. Aruba Ray Allen. Okay.

And I have my co-host, the fantastic Mr. Dan Natterman. He got a brand new check in his pocket and a guest of honor. Mr. Justin Peters is a correspondent for Slate Magazine. He authored a recent story about how he watched nothing

but Fox News for three consecutive weeks. Wow. True story. And he lived to tell about it. I did. Talk into your mic again so I can make you a little louder. Yeah, yeah.. And he lived to tell about it. I did. Talk into your mic again. I'll make you a little louder. Go ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. First, the listeners want to know the situation between me and Paul as it currently stands. Oh, jeez. Because Paul and I had a fight on the show because... Okay. Sorry, Justin. You'll have to wait.

Go ahead. We had not enough mics for everybody, and I pulled the mic away from him. It was, we all, I mean, history, you know. When was this? This was like six, eight months ago. History sees things clearly, and history has shown that Paul was right and you were wrong. And I think even you acknowledged that. It's all right.

I think it was a misunderstanding. It's water under the bridge. How about that? Okay, it's water under the bridge. You know, I would just say that it was not against Paul. It was against the fact that there were too many people and not enough mics. If Paul happened to be in the, it would have been anybody. I mean, not Godfrey because he would have kicked my ass.

Or somebody, you know. You would have done it to Judd Apatow. I'm going to say one thing and then I'm done with this. Sorry, Justin. I totally get it. There were too many people, but there were ways to do it, and the way to do it wasn't on the air twice to say, why is Paul here?

And then the third time, pull the mic away. Just come over, give me a note, ask me to leave, and I would leave. But it's all good. I'm good with it. It's not water under the bridge. Steve, do you think Lou can cut in a little bit of that old episode into this? Let it go, will you? Is this the first time you guys have seen each other since then?

No, no, I've seen him, but we haven't spoken. But I'm glad it's all out of the way. We're starting 2018 off with a clean slate. I'm still upset about it. I'm still upset with Dan about it. I think it was terrible. Well, I was upset with you because you don't want to plan each week the guests, and we end up having chaos.

God forbid there's any spontaneity. But anyway, I literally asked Paul a question and handed him the mic and you got up and had a hissy fit. He's just teasing you. I'm not being a dick. Somebody has to... You know, we had guests booked. I'd love to put Paul... Dave just walked in.

Dave wasn't booked. You told me before the'd love to book Paul. Dave just walked in. I'd love to... Dave was... Dave wasn't booked. Dave was... You told me before the show you want Dave here because Artie is here. Yeah, but listen... Okay, so we have five microphones. So a decision has to be made.

Can I... And then I'll be done and I won't even talk anymore. A decision has to be made. Dan, please. And Noam never wants to make a decision to limit it to five people. I'm sorry.

Fuck yourself, man. You're a fucking asshole. But all right, you know... In any case, we're starting 2018 off right with all, you know. In any case, we're starting 2018 off right with all, you know. There's enough stress in 2018. We don't need to add to it.

Now, I want to confront Justin. First of all, I'm a huge Fox News watcher. Really? And have been for years and years and years. And I'll say that Fox News has never been worse than it is exactly right now. Literally at this moment. Literally. It's never been worse.

This lineup is the most uninteresting, non-intellectually stimulating lineup I've ever seen in Fox. It used to be... And much more biased than most. Well, it used to be that just like Hannity was, you know, no surprises. He was a flack for the Republican Party.

But then the rest of the primetime lineup was interesting to me. And I've always found O'Reilly's show interesting. You know, even if I knew where he was going to come out, at least O'Reilly liked to bring in a guest that was going to argue with him and tussle with him. Well, he had Dennis Miller on. I mean, Dennis Miller's funny. He had him on every now and again. And it was he came from a background of actually doing news. Like Hannity will just blatantly say, I am not a journalist.

I'm a talk show host. And yet on his show, he presents himself as a journalist. He's got all the trappings. He's got this sort of suit. And he's shuffling the papers. And to people who don't read his interviews and aren't particularly critical thinkers, they're like, great, well, this is

the news. But it couldn't be farther away from the news. And that's pretty, you know, straight through from their primetime lineup. And he was nasty. He would make fun of Obama. Like, Obama would have a pronounce a, I remember Obama pronounced a corpsman wrong. I remember that,

the corpsman, the corpsman. And he would just, you know, belittle Obama. I was like, well, O'Reilly wouldn't do that. O'Reilly, O'Reilly, O'Reilly, I think, was a more intellectually honest, he,

O'Reilly liked a good debate. And O'Reilly liked ideas where Hannity really is just a partisan. O'Reilly and Megyn Kelly did not feel like they were carrying pills of resident i think i said that i got a little so that megan kelly wasn't really partisan at all and she skewered dick cheney famously shit and then look greta wasn't partisan really and so that was basically the prime time lineup for

a long time now lauren grim is literally unwatchable and detestable and just totally, I find her despicable. Tucker Carlson, who I thought started out okay, he did this thing the other night about immigration statistics and it was totally disingenuous. That's his whole thing. Carlson does this thing where he presents a veneer of debate, as in he comes in and he will present himself as if he wants to have an actual conversation with his guests and I'll even say things like I'm just

asking questions I just want to know but you watch him long enough three weeks will do you know and you get to realize that what he's doing is he's prepping all day to come up with these really sort of unanswerable questions and gotcha question do and I do a gotcha and then attack in a very sort of demeaning way. Yeah. But he seems to be coming more and more, and I've noticed regression, more and more not intellectually dishonest about the positions he's taking. He's a smart guy, I presume.

Leaving out more and more often, he leaves out key facts that a reasonable person in good faith would offer if they were trying to present a balanced picture. And I remember initially, I remember I would see Tucker Carlson, I can see, oh, you know, I hadn't thought of that. That's a good point. He seems to be, I don't know if it's the rating,

I don't know if these Trump ratings are just like corrupting them all. Because on the other side, it seems to be happening to Morning Joe on the other side. I used to watch Morning Joe, find it very interesting as a debate. Now it's just like vehement anti-Trump. And I know that there's responsible opinions out there who would disagree with some of the, and the old Morning Joe would have had those people on.

Then you don't see them. Like, you know, Dershowitz or any of the people writing in the Wall Street Journal or Andrew McCarthy from National Review, who are writing interesting thought-provoking pieces that make you think about what's going on with the Trump administration. Joe doesn't have any interest. No, there's very little room for moderate opinion with the Trump administration.

That's one thing we've seen over the past year. Well, but I think that's the case because of the network revenue stream dictates that. If you take a middle position, a year at all, I've gone on Fox News a bunch of times. If you go slightly against. Hannity, Hannity, Hannity. Yeah, Hannity and all of them.

And Hannity. You go slightly off the message. You get attacked on Twitter. You get berated. And so, because I think a Tucker, I think it's valid what you said about him. And I feel like, well, I think he realized it's feeding red meat to the lions, you know? You get those sort of outrageous points of view, and your ratings go up. But I'm going to accuse Slate of doing exactly the same thing, and I bet you you can't defend it.

So I read your article, and your article essentially said that it wasn't that bad. There were a lot of good things on Fox, and you liked The Five a lot, and you thought Shepard Smith was excellent. I'm doing this from memory. And there were a bunch of things on Fox. The straight newscasting was pretty straight, and James Rose, and what's there, Harris Faulkner on the... Yeah, and Outnumbered, yeah.

Outnumbered. There's a lot of good stuff. And I remember reading it, and I said, oh, this is kind of my impression of Fox. It's really not as bad as people say, although I do think it's gotten worse even since your article came out, since Laura Ingraham took the spot. But, so what does Slate Magazine put as the headline of his story? I can only consider it a form of brain damage. Oh, my God. This is the headline they put on your story.

That is as unfair, that is as distorting of a news story as any Fox News story has ever been. Because that would never be the headline of your story. Well, I mean, I'll own it. I don't write the headlines. You can't defend that headline. I did write that line in the story. The story is in, the line is in the story so it but i got on that like the line is from the story but this but it's not

it's not a description of watching fox news for a week now i mean look it you read the whole piece and what is clear that you know if you judge fox exclusively and solely by the number of programming hours right you know rather than the relative attention given to, you know, various slots. That, you know, there's stuff on there that is basically indistinguishable from that which you would find on any competing news network, you know.

Shep Smith's show, I think, is a model of what, you know, breaking news reporting on Kebbell News can be. You know, they've got some anchors who were clearly dedicated to uh... sort of the actual news albeit with a slight right slant but you know it's it's fox is what you do you know i i guess my big takeaway from the peace is that

the bad stuff this stuff that really does not resemble news insofar as it has traditionally been understood and known since sort of news gathering, you know, for money was a thing. It's so far off of that sort of standard that it really overwhelms the rest of the good stuff. And, you know, the good stuff and you know the good stuff context of like fox is on these low leverage hours where you know it's only home bodies and people in

airports who are watching them and money is made at night and the money is made increasingly sort of carrying water for uh... the trump administration no matter how sort of uh... unjustifiable one might think some of the things coming out of the White House are. It's amazing. But is that different than what you see on MSNBC?

I don't know. I don't watch MSNBC. I really don't. I don't think it is that different. I think MSNBC has its agenda and figured out its ratings skyrocket when they take, you know, an anti-Trump position. But the other thing that I think is interesting with MSNBC and CNN is they keep saying, when is this guy going to be a traditional president? He's never going to be, and they can't get their head around sort of the outside the box way that this whole administration functions.

Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think at this point, if you don't realize that the Trump administration is never going to sort of like revert to the norm. Right. Like, I don't know where you've been, you know, for the past year. That's as clear as anything. Well, when you say revert back to the norm, I mean, maybe, I mean, the message is always the same. I mean, they're just rich guys helping other rich guys. And I mean, that's that sort of is the norm.

You know, I mean, most presidents don't tweet like he did. I think it's the tweets. it's the infighting. His approach. It's the whole, it's really, and his election, too, just turned a lot of the traditions on its head. And it's like waiting for snow at Christmas, and it's July, and you're still waiting for snow. Yeah, I guess I mean the behavioral norm

that has sort of been set by a lot of other presidents. I think I know what Justin's thinking right now. Why is the person that was introduced to him before the show as co-host not said a word? And I'll explain that. I was just assuming you were still upset about the microphone. No, no, no, no. You're exactly right. He's starting to struggle now.

I know he's right. The fact is, no. The fact is, I've never seen Fox News. What? Really? Thank you for having me on the show. I've seen a few clips. You've been on Red Eye? Is that on Fox News?

Oh, damn. Okay. The late Red Eye, which I love doing. I've watched some clips of Tucker Carlson, some of which I've enjoyed, some of which I think he's kind of an ass, but depends. Did a gig with Tucker Carlson. Mostly, I just I check the price of my Bitcoin

and read French books. And that's about it. And I've been watching... You're painting a picture of an incredibly boring human being. Watching Stranger Things. Oh, I finished the first two seasons. But I'm just not in a position to comment on Fox News. But don't take it personally.

Do you watch the news then? I get my news. If I get any news, it's usually the French. I get it from French. Really? What are they saying in France? The same thing, except it's in French. Do they give their opinions about Americans and our culture in the newscast?

Well, they do. Yeah, they're obsessed with us like the whole world is. Are you French? No, not at all. I've been studying French now for a number of years. It's sort of a hobby of mine. It's an obsession. Don't not at all. I've been studying French now for a number of years. It's sort of a hobby of mine. It's an obsession. Don't ask

me why. I won't. It all started off years ago when I was trying to avoid my roommate, I would go to the bookstore. Well, whilst at the bookstore, I needed to do something. The obvious thing would be to read books. And I saw a book on French. French books. Well, I took it off the shelf.

French the Fast and Fun Way. I started to read it. Oddly enough, I enjoyed it, which is weird because in high school I hated studying languages. Anyway, I don't want to get bogged down. Noam, hit it. I want to tell you one thing.

Let me tell you, I predict that after watching Fox for three weeks, you're watching more Fox on the slide than you would care to admit. For instance, I bet you you're watching Brett Baer's show still. Is it on at five o'clock or 6 o'clock?

I haven't watched an hour since I don't know, Bret Baier from the Chicago Bears Do you watch something else at that hour? No, I don't watch shit I haven't watched TV basically since the experiment ended Like he's so much better than that sexual harasser Chris Matthews

You heard Chris Matthews in trouble now What did he do? Do you want to say what he do? In the workplace? Do you want to say what he did? I don't know. Well, I honestly don't know what he did.

He got accused of sexual jokes and a hostile work environment. Not quite sexual harassment, but he's no angel. Quote, unquote, inappropriate. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, if we're going to name news people who have gotten in trouble for sexual harassment, Fox has had plenty of those. O'Reilly. I think O'Reilly got a bum rap. And I can prove it, but I'm not going to do it again. I've done it on this show. Really? I think he got a bum rap. Why do you think he got a bum rap?

That's interesting. You thought it was more consensual, right? She was around for a long time. Well, okay. I don't know all the... I only know what I'm able to research. However, I did download and read very carefully the original complaint by Andrea Macris, is that her name, against Bill O'Reilly.

And it says the following. This is fascinating, okay? And it's amazing that the New York Times never mentioned any of this. So she was working for O'Reilly, and apparently he was saying inappropriate things to her about get a vibrator if you don't have a boyfriend,

stuff that he shouldn't have been saying. And she then left to go to work for CNN. Then she gets in touch with him and she says she's ready to come back to work for him again for the same money if he just won't say dirty stuff to her anymore. He says, okay, let's meet and talk about it. This is in her complaint.

They meet for dinner in a restaurant. In a hotel restaurant. She describes him as being like intense and creepy or something in the dinner. They agree that she'll come back. And he says, I have a room upstairs. I'm watching

election returns. You want to come up to my room? She goes up to his room to watch TV. Apparently nothing happens. Then he goes, okay, I'm going to go try to get your job back. Then he comes back to her

a couple days later. He says, listen, I went to Fox. They won't give you the same money that you're making at CNN. But I can give you the difference out of my pocket. She says, okay.

She agrees to go back to work at Fox, starts to tape record his phone conversations, and gets $15 million. If that doesn't sound like a setup, I mean, if you're being sexually harassed by a guy, why would you go back to work for him for the same money you were making already, and some of it coming out

of his pocket? Well, him knowing that, why did he settle, and some of it coming out of his pocket. Well, him knowing that, why did he settle, and why didn't he use all of that against her? I think there was some... No, he settled because he didn't want his wife to know, and his kids to know, whatever. Maybe there were settlements, too. Well, I'm not even sure if he settled that, or Fox settled it, to tell you the truth.

I'm not sure who paid. Sometimes the employer pays. O'Reilly, from what I've read, like with the Macrist thing, and sort of a handful of others, I think it came out. O'Reilly, from what I've read, like with the Macrist thing and the sort of handful of others, I think it came out of O'Reilly's own pocket. When a guy has that kind of money,

whatever it is, I mean, you're talking about the typical case like somebody goes for a job interview and winds up in a hotel room and the guy starts groping her. This is a complex relationship by a woman who left, came back, meets him in a hotel room, I mean, goes up to his hotel room.

This is not a simple matter. And that's just her side of the story. We don't even know his side of the story. And the last incident with Lise Weal, I don't know anything about that except that it was a 15-year relationship. Whatever went on was going on for 15 years. And that, to me, just as a guy who's lived and had relationships, that's a complex relationship. And I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong.

I have no idea what he did. And judging Bill O'Reilly, he seems to be a guy who's certainly capable of doing things wrong, you know? However, it doesn't seem to me it's the other kind of, like, guys who are hitting on strangers with no context, no relationship, you know, trying to just, you want to work for me, you're going to have to bang me. I don't know. I get a weird feeling after reading that first, because the first one, when she gets the money, that's blood in the water. And we know how that works. We're seeing blood in the water

now as a society now. And blood in the water is a real thing. When somebody gets $15 million, everybody, especially these kind of mediocre Fox broadcasters who are barely losing their looks and know they're never getting hired again, they begin to start thinking, like, you know, I don't like the way

he spoke to me. And I'll say one other thing. I have a friend who works as a district attorney off in Los Angeles. And he's a good man. He's not a harasser or anything. And he told me, he says, listen, we get complaints from women about men. And with some regularity, not like the majority or anything like that, but with some regularity, they end up falling apart. And we find out that it turned out

she caught him cheating, she found out he got another girl pregnant. There are these stories, or she was broke or whatever, these stories do fall apart from time to time. And I know you're not supposed to say that, but that's just the truth. So I worry that Bill O'Reilly got a bum rap

and what disturbed me most of all is that when the new york times wrote that story if that had been a story about like bill clinton paula jones they certainly would have mentioned the other side that will actually she did go back to work for him and she went up to his hotel room and she worked for the same money like uh they didn't mention any of the white and conservative publications mentioned it but they don't have an agenda. They didn't come out for him either. Supposedly O'Reilly

was also a jerk in the workplace which didn't help. You remember years ago with the Marv Albert scandal which I thought he got hosed because he had

had a relationship with this woman for a very long time. It was consensual sex. It was really ahead of its time if you think about it. But if that thing

came out now people would be like it was completely consensual and she flipped out on him for some reason. But he was also very well liked in the workplace. He had a great reputation, you know, unlike O'Reilly. Now, O'Reilly's also been accused of dragging a woman by their hair down. What's wrong with that?

And you've seen his temper. I don't want to say that he's innocent. I don't know. I'm just saying that that court paper was not a convincing document to me of somebody's guilt at all. It sounded exactly like what you would do if you were trying to set somebody up. Exactly, like to the letter. And again, the key part is to go back knowing that some of the money is coming out of his pocket. When the guy has been sexually harassing you in the past, that just seems nuts to me.

And you're not even making any extra money. So you can download it and see if I'm being accurate. I think I am being accurate. I haven't read it, but... What about Franken? Should Franken resign? I mean, he did. Whether he should have or he shouldn't, he did. I mean, he did.

That's a slippery answer. Wasn't the argument that it was the right thing to do for the party to say they're all taking the higher moral ground? Well, I think the feeling was that if they needed to go after Roy Moore if he were elected, they were going to have less of a leg to stand on if Franken was still in. Same thing with Conyers, who was, you know, 82. He's an icon. Yeah, so the feeling was if we sacrifice our own, then we have legitimacy to say you need to step down, Roy Moore. So I think it was

a wrong place, wrong time a little bit for Franken. You think Franken could ever run again? I think he should run again. I think he'd win. I bet he would win. I don't see why. I mean, everything passes with time. You know, like, give it enough time. You don't know my wife, but go ahead.

Besides that, people's memories, most people's memories are so damn short, like these days. Although Anthony Weiner, remember, he tried to run again, and that was a disaster. Didn't he get in trouble again with something completely new? I mean, like, if you screw up, like, secondarily,

that's on you. That's not on... Did he go to jail because there were minors involved? Minors, yeah, yeah. That's a big one. People are not forgiving of minors. They Minors, yeah, yeah. That's a big one. People are not that forgiving of minors. They'll forgive infidelity, whatever it is, but the rest of it. And he had a picture of his penis erect with his son lying next to him. Well, you never had an erection on your bed with your son lying next to you? Actually, you know, last night, you're right.

This is the man who asked his son if he could, can I tell you? Well, Paul's son is of age, so, you know, it's okay. Paul asked his son if he could see his pubic hair. I just wanted to look at it to see how thick it's coming in. Does that seem normal to you? It was just an academic interest. Yes, exactly. It's like I wanted to study his penis for three weeks.

For three weeks, yeah. And write about it. And his son, his son is like the Marilyn Monroe or the Mercurial family, like the only normal one. His son's like, Dad, what the hell's the matter with you? And Paul gets mad. This is all true. Really?

Paul gets mad. He's like, what the hell's the matter? I want to see your dick. And my explanation to that is twofold. First, growing up in the boys club, we would go swimming. They had a seven to nine age group, all boys naked swim. And no one thought anything bad about that. That's an explanation.

When you go to the gym, if you go to the gym to work out, you walk around in the shower and see a lot of men you don't know naked. Why can't I see my son naked? Just take your kid to the gym. Yeah. Cut out the middle man and just go straight to the... But you're describing going to the gym in order to see the men naked rather than just like, you know, part of being, going there to work out and end up seeing people naked.

The man's a scholar. He's interested in pubic hair. Thank you. This is what they teach at Georgetown. Dan likes French. Paul likes pubic hair. Yeah, exactly. I wonder what your son, what's your son going to say about this 10, 15, 20 years from now?

To a therapist. Well, I had him on my podcast. We talked about it. And he said, you're not doing it. You're not going to see it. And I'm like, I don't understand why. Because you're my son. I'm just curious to see.

I'm not asking to look at his penis size or anything, although that would be nice to see as well. It's more just the pubic hair. Jesus Christ. Holy shit. You have a kid, and then you realize. We thought Noam's obsession with his kid growing up and dating was a little much. But this is, I've never heard this in my life, Paul. No kids.

If you do, feel free to look at their private part. You had a dad, right? I did. So you could put yourself in his son's position. You know, my dad did take me weightlifting quite a bit when I was growing up, and now I'm thinking back on him like, is there another reason here? Did he just want to see how it was coming in?

See? Thank you. I'm not alone. Thank you. You're a funny guy. What else do you write about besides Fox? All sorts of stuff. I'm going to be writing about the Olympics next month.

What Olympics are we coming up on? South Korea. Yeah, the South Dakota Olympics. South Korea Olympics. Winter Olympics. A valid question. Different hemispheres, different seasons. North Korea narrowly missed out on the bid.

Well, what city in South Korea? Because Seoul was in the summer games, just not... Rhythm and soul, man. It's Pyeongchang. You see, this is the thing about the Winter Olympics. Summer Olympics is always a city that everybody's heard of. Everyone's heard of, yeah. Winter Olympics is just, do you got snow? Do you got a mountain? And sometimes they don't even have snow.

In Sochi, they didn't have snow. That was the whole thing. It was like 60 degrees there. What did they do? They brought in snow? They were so trucked in snow. The Winter Olympics are always in some place, like Lake Placid, which is a town of two people in upstate New York. That was the Olympics. Summer Olympics is Rome, Paris, Tokyo. Winter Olympics, Lake Placid. But there's a whole political layer to it now.

The North Koreans are not going to be in the Olympics, are they? Well, they might. They have a tradition and sort of a, you know, they have gone to South Korean athletic events before. Do they go back afterwards? Well, that's actually the thing. That's the fascinating thing about the olympics like you have to win gold in order to sort of like succeed for North Korea and

I was you know saying before we started about how much I enjoy watching weightlifting during the summer olympics and I remember watching this one North Korean weightlifter this really sort of like bulky talented like guy who won gold in 2012 and was really going for it this time and he got silver and you could see if he was crestfallen anyone else it's like silver medal like awesome like I'm almost the man this guy was like I brought dishonor upon my country and then they shave his pubic hair off no no never they they shave his pubic hair off. That's what they do. No, no, never. They barely have

any pubic hair. Talent just seems like an odd word to use for a weightlifter. I'm not questioning the use of the word. I just thought a word that I would use

for some meathead lifting iron. This is like deadlift and powerlift and stuff like that. It's the clean and jerk. Like you sort of clean it up to your...

Paul does that with his son as well. Yeah. The clean and jerk. Nice. The queen of the church. How are they handling gender identity issues in the Olympics now? That's a good question. I do not know. I know there was the one sprinter a few years back who was...

Wanted to compete against women, correct? Yeah, they had sort of both genitalia, and it was sort of unclear whether Kastor Semenya, which was the athlete's name, was going to be allowed to compete against her. I don't actually remember how that resolved. What's going to happen when the female Russian Olympic team is a bunch of Russian dudes with wigs

on? What, like some like it hot? Yeah, exactly. That's what's going to happen. I am a woman. Nobody's perfect. I am woman. Did you guys hear that? I am Ivana.

Supposedly in North Korea, all men have to get the same haircut as Kim Jong-un. Did you hear about that? No, I haven't heard that. Yeah, that's what I read. Supposedly. Well, it seems like every couple of months there's a couple of soldiers that try to defect, and one got shot. One made it recently.

I think they said it cost eight grand to try to defect, but you only make like 1,200 bucks a couple of soldiers that try to defect and one got shot. One made it recently. I think they said it cost $8,000 to try to defect, but you only make $1,200 a year, something like that. Something crazy. Sochi was a real problem for the Russians because that's where they had that big scandal about mix doping and playing with the samples.

They had a room that they created so you would go in and they have this bottle that you urinate in and it's's tamper proof and they would hand the bottle through a hole to another to another russian and they would they would somehow break it open putting clean urine and put it back on the russians have been sort of at the forefront of doping in sports since doping sports existed they actually invented doping a rubber this for slade about a decade ago back in like some olympics in like the fifties there was this

uh... on all this back to weightlifting this uh... this weightlifting squad from uh... russia who are looking as ungodly amounts and the american doctor for the american he was like what the hell is going on how can these guys be so good so we got the russian team doctor drunk and the doctor revealed that it was sort of like, oh, sort of chemically enhanced,

and he gave him the recipe, and then this guy, you know, went back to York, Pennsylvania, and created the first sort of anabolic steroid that then percolated throughout American sport, and here we are. Is there a better truth serum than alcohol? I mean, you know how many seats...

Probably. This guy Papadopoulos, he had two drinks, you know how many secrets? This guy Papadopoulos, he had two drinks, two fosters. He's like, look, I gotta tell you. I don't know you. I got Hillary's emails. To be clear, we just met.

I'm told that truth serum is really, well, they usually use pentothal. Yeah, sodium pentothal. It's not really that effective. A couple drinks and you offer a pussy and a guy will say anything. This is the truth. I'm not even kidding.

By the way, speaking of vibes, do you watch Morning Joe? No. So this morning, I mean, I already mentioned it, but tell me what you think about this. So Katty K was on Morning Joe this morning. So you know Trump, first of all, this tweet that Trump said about I have a bigger button and it works. Yeah.

When I first heard that, I have to say, I didn't take that as a dick joke. Now, I'm not saying it wasn't, but I didn't take it that way. I don't think he intended it that way. I thought he meant it as like, I have more nuclear weapons. This is passed as becoming the accepted wisdom that this was another

dick weapon. Oh, it has. I didn't know that. And I didn't... I didn't either. Who refers to their dick as a button, though. Someone with a gender identity. I think you guys should... So, mine is bigger. I mean, anytime you say mine is bigger, you think...

But I don't think that's what he meant. But having said that, so, Caddy K starts the show with this. The quote of Donald Trump in a Republican debate saying, My hands are certainly normal size, and you know what, if anybody thinks that there's any problem there, believe me, I'm just fine, or something like that.

And she says, this was the president talking about his genital size, and then John Heilman was like, really about that. Yeah, we should have known when he's talking about his genital size. Of course, now he's talking about it again. Who would have believed it? But when they left out,

and again, I think this is absolute clear bias, but I remembered it and I checked it as true, that prior to Trump saying that, Marco Rubio had made fun of Trump's hands. And Marco Rubio actually said, and you know what they say about guys with small hands. Right. So then Trump answered.

Right, because Marco. There's nothing wrong with my hands. So they turned that into as if Trump had injected this rather than respond. Now, maybe a classy guy wouldn't have even responded. Still, it's quite a different thing. Quite a different thing when you're responding to the other guy making fun of your dick rather than just gratuitously mentioning your own dick. Yeah, but you're running for president.

You still don't have to respond. You could just let it go. I mean, Marco was grasping at straws because at that point he was hammering him with little Marco, little Marco. I would have responded.

I would have responded. I'm not a vulgar guy. They gave Clinton years ago, somebody asked Clinton, I think it was on MTV, everybody wants to know boxers or briefs, and I guess Clinton said

usually briefs or something like that. And I remember people were a little bent out of shape even about that, but how far we've come, obviously. That that was a cause

for a scandal. Now fathers and sons are sharing a cube. And what I'm fascinated by, and maybe you have some insight into this, is do these, like, what goes on in the minds of smart people where they take such leave of this, so unaware, self-aware, that they don't see when they're clearly just slanting a story, leaving out things in order to fit the narrative that they want, while at the same time looking down their nose at the guy on the other end of town who's doing it from the opposite point of view.

Do they not see it? I guess I would respond by saying that I suspect that most people whom you and other viewers might watch and say, alright, this is clearly slanted. The journalists themselves don't themselves think of it as slanting the news. And maybe

as it comes across, but my guess is that most people think he's the President of the United States. If a higher standard exists, it should exist for the President of the United States. If a higher standard exists, it should exist for the president of the United States. The most famous, most powerful man in the world, in the history of the world, is a man who should not be making possible dick jokes on Twitter. You know, and the fact that... Well, we don't know. I was referring to the debate clip. We don't know. That's right. But they use that in order to make us accept that the Twitter joke was a dick joke,

and I'm not even sure that was a dick joke. I mean, I... Let me give you an example. A waitress comes to me and says, Mike the bartender just told me he had a really big dick. I'm like, what the fuck? Mike, get over here. How could you speak to her like that?

And then Mike says, well, but she just said to me, I bet you have a small dick. And I said to the waiter, well, how could you leave out the fact you said to him, I bet you had a small dick? Now you're trying to make it sound like he brought, this is what I'm saying. And how can a reporter even miss that for a second that I'm showing the response and pretending that that was where it originated and I'm not showing the fact that somebody made fun of his dick. It doesn't make any sense to me. When your side is losing... Because people are A, incompetent, B, biased. B, biased.

There it is. That's the answer to the question. I think when you're losing to the other side and losing significantly, right? So he's in the White House. Their people aren't in the White House. Become desperate. They want eyeballs. Become desperate, and you're desperate to get them out so you start to reach.

Anyway, can we get to New Year's Eve? Sure. What about New Year's Eve? What do you mean about New Year's Eve? There was a controversy on New Year's Eve. Is this the attack of the Germans in Cologne? That happened on New Year's Eve? That happened a couple years ago.

And then this year they had a whole thing in Arabic. Germans were tweeting in Arabic to try to make sure there were no more attacks in Cologne. It was a big controversy? No, I wasn't aware of that. I was talking about a more significant controversy. What's that? Hoodie gate! 2017. Oh, okay. We'll let Justin decide. Justin. Nobody say a word. It's an obvious

idea. On New Year's Eve, let's say you just wore, your typical outfit was slacks and a shirt when you perform comedy. Yeah, big slacks guy. Slacks and a shirt. On New Year's Eve, would you A, wear slacks and a shirt, B, something a little nicer than slacks and a shirt, or C, a hoodie? Where am I performing?

At the Comedy Cellar, the most important comedy club in the world. But it's a nightclub in New York City, in Greenwich Village, which is hip. Is there a dress code? Are there people? No. I'd wear whatever I feel. It's New Year's Eve. I'd wear whatever I feel like.

Good day, sir. You are, sir, I shake your hand. That's the wrong answer. Here's a situation as it unfolded. This is brain damage. I love it. On December 31st, 2017. Ray Allen, who is one of our regular hosts here.

That's me. Was one of our regular hosts. One of our regular hosts here. Hosted a show on New Year's Eve and showed up dressed as he typically dresses, I suppose. I've never seen him wear a hoodie on stage. Oh, I do that often. In any case, he dressed not terribly differently than he normally dresses. I wear that red hoodie all the time.

Noam was very, very upset. I think it's fair to say you weren't just upset in a lighthearted way. You were legitimately upset. I'm getting upset thinking about it now. I got teased by some people, but he really let me have it. William Stevenson wore a three-piece suit. Will Silvins was overdressed.

Every other MC dressed. Yeah. It's New Year's Eve. But it wasn't clear. Jared Freed showed up and Liz said to him, you got to go home and change.

And he went home and changed. He wasn't wearing a hoodie. He was wearing just like slacks and a shirt. He would have been okay without it. But you know what my thought process was?

It really was. I was home. I was running around. I was working on a lot of other stuff. I said to myself, I go, man, should I throw on a jacket? I'm like, man, no, it's freezing out. It's so cold out.

I'll wear a hoodie. I'll keep it warm. I must say, it did not occur to me. I'm not an emcee. I was just doing a regular spot. It did not occur to me to dress markedly differently than I normally dress for a spot at the comedy cellar. It's a comedy cellar.

And I dress pretty much as I always do. Now, since I wasn't an emcee, you may say, well, it's not as significant. But it never really would have occurred to me either, even where I am seen. I mean, the setting is very casual, whether it's New Year's Eve or not. And it was a really good show.

Do you have a picture of how dressed down you were? It's essentially like this, but a red hoodie. Oh, no, no, no, not like that. Did you get any complaints? Yes, actually, we did. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. Yes, we did.

Show me the emails. I thought Liz showed it to did. No, you didn't. Yes, we did. Show me the emails. I thought Liz showed it to you. No, she said there were none. Liz, this is Liz, our general manager. Show them to me if you got them. Did we get an email complaining about Ray's outfit? Yes. That's what I wore.

Let me see. And that's what the other comic wore, by the way. Let me see. That's me. That's Chris. That's what the other comic wore, by the way. Let me see. That's me. That's Chris. That's what I wore. By the way, if you cared that much, you might have said, hey, dress up. I didn't see you.

Listen, this is the kind of thing, you're 40-something years old. It's the kind of thing that a professional in show business knows. New Year's Eve. Everybody at this table disagrees with you. I'm sorry. No, I don't. We're all wrong. We're all wrong.

No, no, you're right. No, no, no. I knew. Yes, I'm going to tell you why you're all wrong. We're all wrong. No, no, you're right. No, no, no. I knew. Yes, I'm going to tell you why you're all wrong. Why? Because New Year's Eve, everybody in show business knows, is a potential question about dress. And when in doubt, you fucking ask. I wasn't in doubt.

You think we're supposed to dress up? Right, that's why you're wrong. No, I mean, you should have said. Half the comics didn't dress up. I performed New Year's Eve. Let me put another reason why you're wrong. In 30 years. How about him?

In 30 years, I've never had to tell anybody, and it's never been an issue. How does that make you feel? Maybe you didn't notice. I pointed it Year's Eve. Another reason why you're wrong. In 30 years, in 30 years, I've never had to tell anybody and it's never been an issue. Maybe you didn't notice. I pointed it out to you. I said to you, hey, do you like my outfit? I said it to you. I would just say that... Paul didn't dress up either. You are disregarding what every guest on your show said.

Two shows, New Year's Eve. What'd you wear? I wore sneakers, jeans, a t-shirt, and a leather jacket. A leather jacket. That's a look. I think a hoodie's a look-shirt, and a leather jacket. A leather jacket. That's a look. I think a hoodie's a look. But it's not a look. I actually think a hoodie's a look. I really do. A hoodie's a look. A hoodie with the... So many women have told me

that they think it looks good. I'm asking Liz to talk in the mic. This is exactly what happened. And then Dan is liable to get up and walk out angry now because we don't have the mic. Is this okay? Is it okay? Go ahead. Yes, it's okay. A Ruberay wore a Bordeaux hoodie, the one that he wears every night, a fuchsia, a Ruberay t-shirt underneath, a blue, you didn't even wear the Burberry.

Anyway. The email, the email. The email. It was basically a customer said that they felt that the show was very casual. They thought it would be a lot more dressy. They mentioned that the host was a little laid back and appeared to look very laid back. Did they also mention other comics or just a rube ray? No, because everyone else on that show was dressed up.

Well, I wasn't particularly dressed up. I was dressed normally. Michelle Wolf was. Michelle looked like a million dollars. Michelle looked unbelievable. She was very dolled up. Why was she dressed up? Did it occur to you why she might have particularly dressed up. I was dressed normally. Michelle Wolf was. Michelle looked like a million dollars. Michelle looked unbelievable. She was very dolled up. Why was she dressed up? Did it occur to you why she might have been dressed up?

But not everybody was dressed up. Alan Hady wasn't dressed up. Dan Aniver was dressed up. I mean, dude, you're fucking overreacting. You know what? If you really got upset, you know what you should be worried about? Worry about your staff who's rude to customers. Worry about the club stinking of weed.

I mean, what are you talking about? Get over it. It's a fucking hoodie. And it is a look, and a lot of girls think it looks good. Who was rude to customers? I'm not going to throw your employees under the bus. Oh, you started it. No one listening is going to know.

I'll tell you, when we get off the air, I'll tell all of you. But you know. You already know who it is. We've had this conversation before. Talking about outside Steve? I'm not making names. I will say no. I want to say, for the record, I don't know because, especially around the corner there,

our staff is really, really nice and our door guys are nice. Phenomenal. On the underground? Sean is great. Mo is great. Tell me what position the rude person was doing. Owner. There's a variety of positions.

Oh, come on, Rick. I'll tell you when we're off the air. Just what position Because everybody will know Go Look at Yelp You don't have to Look at Yelp

You'll know Oh there you go Yeah look at Yelp It's ironic that you're more concerned About telling the people at home Than the people who are going to They're going to get in trouble If you tell us off the air also

Oh then I'm not going to say anything I don't want to do that I'm a snitch I'm not a rat I'm not a rat This is just a ruse I think you're deflecting Off of your hoodie

Hoodie gate I don't want to I don't want to throw anybody in the bus I don't want anyone to lose their job I am not This rat. This is just a ruse. I think you're deflecting off your hoodie. I don't want to throw anybody in the bath. I don't want anyone to lose their job. This would not occur to me to dress up on New Year's Eve. I mean, okay, maybe a leather jacket, but a suit, three-piece suit, good for him. Eight o'clock on a... I will say, Noam, if you thought it was an issue, you should have issued a directive from the pen of Noam Dorman. I'm going to have a directive for next year. Believe me.

I'll wear a tuxedo. But here's the most important thing. You should wear a tuxedo with a hoodie. I should. Can you let Justin talk? Justin, one thing. The show was awesome. That's the most important thing.

No, it wasn't one of our best shows. It was New Year's Eve. It was not. I'm not putting it on you. The second show was amazing. Yeah, the second show was awesome. Well, that's also the midnight show. It's more exciting. Nope. Nope. Who booked it? you. The second show was amazing. Yeah, the second show was awesome. Well, it's also, that's the midnight show. It's more exciting.

Nope, nope. Who booked it? Who booked which show? They're different lineups. What do you want? Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't. The audience was much older in the 8 o'clock show. It was a little more low key.

It was significant. It was the oldest crowd I've ever seen at the Cellar. I liked them. They listened. They were attentive. They were fun. I liked it. Next year, next year,

now that you know how upset your hoodie made at least two people, does that make you more or less likely to wear it next year? I'm going to wear a dumpier hoodie. I love Justin. That's a comedian right there. Contrarian. And then Ray's mad about another thing, too.

Ray's mad about this whole TV show we're doing. Well, let's talk about that, then. I'm excited about it. Well, let's talk about that. Does the audience know anything about the podcast? No, this is new. So, Justin, this TV show we're doing. Well, let's talk about that then. I'm excited about it. Well, let's talk about that. Does the audience know anything about the pilot? No, this is new. So, Justin, this is what we're doing. You tell us what you think.

We have a new, we're doing a pilot, a Comedy Central pilot here. Congratulations. It's been close to three years this has been going on. And this is the concept. We're going to shoot every show at the club for a week. And from that week on Sunday night, we're going to edit it down to 30 minutes

of the comedians just doing topical material about what kind of went on that week in the news or in the world or whatever it is. And that's going to be the show. That's the concept as it stands. And then there'll be some interspersed of comedians sitting around at a table shooting the shit about a thing.

What do you think? I'd watch that. You would watch that. Why would you watch that? I mean, you've got a week's worth of material to distill. Hopefully,

you can get 30 minutes of killer stuff. 21 minutes. 21, even 20, and plus five minutes of people sitting around and drinking coffee

and talking about their clothes. It's 17 minutes of good material. You can get that. Is there a directive to the comedians that week that they should do as much as possible to do topical stuff for that week? Not as much as possible.

Those questions remain to be answered. We need to do whatever we need to do to get 17 minutes of good material. And also, like Dan, for example, there's a great bit about pop being legal in Colorado. I mean, it didn't happen this week, but that could tie into the show. Somebody's talking about a new state having legal weed, and that would still work in that category within that segment of the show. Yeah, you can interpret topicality very broadly.

Absolutely. I would suggest that in order to motivate comics to write the best possible topical shit, and because sometimes a topical joke might take two or three tries to get it just so right, a financial incentive might go a long way. In other words, you're just taping all the shows that are normal? No, the financial incentive you get on the air, I think it's like, how much do they pay? We don't know yet.

But it's good. You want comedians to put on their thinking caps, come up with great shit, in the hopes of maybe getting on the air? Yeah. That might work. That's how most entertainment businesses work. That might work.

You're going to get scammed. You want me to write songs with a chance of maybe getting a regular deal? No, no. When Fallon asks his staff to write topical jokes for the monologue, they write a billion of them. Most don't get on the air, but they're paid. Well, that's possible, Dan, actually. I'm not rejecting that. That's a possible thing. I think that a lot of...

Every week that something happens in the news, people are doing the topical jokes anyway. We'll see. Some more than others. Normally, I don't do topical because it's a joke that won't be useful a week or two. Hence, but give me the proper

financial motivation. How much do you want? I don't want to... I don't know. I don't know. Do you want to be on a retainer? I'll pay you $65 a week to write Top of the World. But then keep in mind,

it's food for thought. There's a lot of comics who work at the club. We are actually thinking of hiring three or four writers who would be staff writers. Yeah. Okay. And that could rotate. All right, okay.

I mean, if comics want to use writers, and some probably will. Some will, some won't. But then you're not getting that particular comic's own point of view. You're getting written material. What was it? I don't know. We've got to figure it out. But the concept is...

It's not an exact science. But again, it is a TV show. It's not just a standard... Anyway, you said Ray is mad. Yeah, I don't know. We've got to figure it out. But the concept is... It's not an exact science. But again, it is a TV show. It's not just a standard... Anyway, you said Ray is mad. Yeah, Ray is mad. I think it's a strong word. Because I wanted Esty to book the comedians

and Ray had like a... No, no, no, no. It's not that Esty... No, this is not correct. And I don't even know this is the proper place to talk about it. But there's a lot...

Because... Because... Well, because she should be here. That's why. Because there seemed to be this, there's a lot of comics. We're going to shoot, there's 72 spots to fill, right? Liz, you want to call it? And the goal was to have at least 50 comics. And by the way, this wasn't just sort of come up with spur of the moment.

There's been a lot of thought and effort that's gone on to this whole process. I mean, there's been going on. The whole thing began over two and a half years ago, and then this pre-production has been going on for... Was it really two and a half years ago? Yes. What took so long? We had a lot of meetings, then we finally worked out with the production company. The legal stuff took a long time, and we finally got the pitch meeting set up. We pitched to many networks,

and then when that finally worked out, that legal took forever. I mean, it's a lot of steps, and then just getting the pilot. We knew we were greenlit for the pilot several months ago. So we have 72 spots to fill. We want to have at least 50 comics in those spots. And to some people who can do really great topical stuff, maybe have them do more than one spot.

This is just for the pilot, and it's a non-airing pilot, by the way. I'm sorry, let's talk more about North Korea. Get to the controversy. This is the stuff of podcasting. By the way, this is the comedy

seller podcast and this is about the TV show that will be shot at the comedy seller. So maybe this will be interesting information for a comedy podcast.

Go ahead, Ray. I'm going to let Justin be the judge. If it's not interesting to you, you tell him to move along. Go ahead. So we have a lot of comics to work with.

I'm a process guy. This is interesting. Thank you. I love Justin. So we have a lot of comics to work with. I'm a process guy. This is interesting. Thank you. I love Justin. So we have a lot of comics to choose from. Primarily comedy seller comics who work here, have been past here, work here. Of course, there's some comics who don't work here who the network likes, which makes sense. And there you have it. And the network is Comedy Central.

Yeah. I'm going to tell you what's wrong with Ray Ellum. Go ahead. So there's a lot to work with. So I've reached out to tons of comedians to explain to them what we're doing, to how they would or wouldn't be compensated, to what's going to be asked of them, to when we're going to shoot, and so on. Reaching out to a lot of people. And also getting their availability, what's the best day for out of these five days that they could do.

So I put this information together. It takes very time. It's going to be a lot of work. It's part of the job. I'm an EP on the show. Who made you an EP on the show? The network. The network?

I didn't know that. Go ahead. You didn't know that? No. That never came up in a conversation between you and I or you and me? No, I'm finding out for the first time now. You really didn't know that? I did not know that.

We've been working on this together for over two and a half years. What does an EP mean? Executive producer. Yeah, that's what I was afraid it meant. Anyway. What is that? See, no one can differentiate between when we're sitting around at the table eating hummus and bullshitting, when we're actually working on a real TV project.

What does that give you? Does that give you any authority? I have the authority to take this podcast off the air because it's a conflict. If you're an EP, what am I? You're also probably an EP. I don't know. What's your deal? DEP?

What's your deal? I don't know. You probably have a... I don't know your contract. I have no idea. What's your deal? What's your deal? I don't know. You have a... I don't know your contract. I have no idea. You have a contract? You don't? All right.

We're going to have to talk later. But go ahead. What the fuck? What are you talking about? But no, Ray's been working on this for two years. You expect that he wasn't doing it for fun? I just didn't... How do you think this all...

You don't think that I've kept this afloat for over two years? When people wanted to walk away? Listen, a lot of things float, right? Generally, when you have two EPs, one EP has a little bit more authority than the other. There's several producers on the show. But generally, you have to have one that sort of has the most power. Noah's been very busy pouring through the transcripts

of the Andrea Macris sort of like demonstration. All right, anyway. It's amazing to me. I don't think Noah knows. I don't think Noah understands what entails going through. For example, when we pitched, the head of the production company went... You're going to me. I don't think no one knows. I don't think no one understands what Entail is going through. For example, when we pitched, the head of the production company went in. You're going to have to let someone else talk in a second. Phenomenal in the room.

He was great. Did you pitch as well? I was with him, yeah. Who was phenomenal? Michael was great. Oh, I thought I said I was. Michael was great. And he has a great relationship with all these networks.

He ran a network for a long time. He's fantastic. And there's a lot of key elements why something gets sold, Hirshhorn. And you know why. It takes a lot of different steps in selling. All right, let's get to it. Do you remember what you're leading up to? Sure.

You're leading up to your problem with Esty. It's not a problem. I don't have any problem with her. You do, apparently. Yeah, your two producers on this is going to work out great. It'll be fine because he does what he does best, which is sit back and sort of like at the 11th hour go, and then we calm him down.

Now, here's the thing. So we put together all these availability, what comics sort of should be, shouldn't be on the show type of thing. Meaning it's pretty straightforward. You know, there's some directive from the network. And I have all this information. And then the plan is to sit down with Esty and go over it. And keep in mind, meeting with network heads or meeting with production companies, it's pretty far for the course. For whatever reason, no one doesn't want me

to sit with her. Like, he thinks I'm going to offend her or steamroll her, do something inappropriate, which makes no sense, because this is part of the job. This is part of the process. What do you think is going to happen? All I would do is say to her, hey, Esty, these people, I know they're not past here, but the network wanted them. Or, Esty, the reason

that guy ideally will go on that spot is because he is going to be leaving town and the network really wants him on the show I mean that's this is pretty good this is the thing

this is the thing and he's like you stay out of that room absolutely it would have been a disaster if you had been in that room I can be and should be at any meeting

and what you should do is say to her why didn't you I didn't know you were a producer really you had no idea I can't tell us that you're a producer are you crazy you're going to her, you know, Ray's the producer on the show. I didn't know you were a producer. Really? You had no idea. I can't tell I see you're a producer. Are you crazy?

You're going to wonder why she's not a producer. Have you read an email for the last... What? Have you read an email in the last two years? I mean, what are you talking about? I did not know you were a producer. Why do you think Ray was working on it all this time? Just for fun?

I thought... Obviously, he was looking to produce. So you have not... Really? That's obvious, but dressing on New Year's Eve is not obvious? That's ridiculous analogy. I mean, what do you think, Justin? Ray pitched...

Justin. And by the way, I've produced other things. Can I answer a few things? No, no, no. I got this. First of all, SD doesn't like you. Yeah. Number one.

That I know. We know that. I don't know why she doesn't like me. Yeah. Number one. That I know. We know that. I don't know why she doesn't like me. SD and you have friction. She has friction with me. The not like you is not an I was put. She doesn't dislike you. You have friction.

Number two, she is very territorial. This is her thing. Sure. Booking comedians is her thing. That you don't understand. I do get that. That Ray Allen coming in and telling her... Would never tell her what to do.

Or even having input on... Is going to... Input on the TV show, yes. Wait, let me... Is going to bristle, ruffle her feathers, something awful. Number three,

she's much better to ask the comedians than you because... They almost all agree. No. A lot of people started saying yes. Did you read the document I sent to Liz?

Did I interrupt you constantly when you tried to hit the button? No, you went... yes. Did you read the document I sent to Liz? Did I interrupt you constantly when you tried to get a book? No, you went, why don't you read the document I sent Liz? Esty, this is the thing. When Esty asks someone

if they want to do something, Esty is the booker at the comedy cellar. So they want to say yes. So she is the best, even more than me asking them. Sure.

She is the best person to ask them. But your problem is, and this is, and I will shift for a second, because it, this is your, no, no,

it's my, what you perceive as a problem. Yes, but I'm right. So, what's my problem? So, Justin,

did you happen to hear about that article about the comedy seller, about the guy who said that we're responsible for, no, do you get to that after? Why don't you finish with this? I'm, this is, this is a high end, it's not. You were worried I was going to guy who said that we're responsible for... Get to that after. Why don't you finish with this? This is...

This is a high... You were worried I was going to offend Esty. I'm getting to that. There's an article about the guy. This guy, his name is Guy Branum, and he wrote an article in Vulture about how the comedy is the boys club which protected Louis C.K. Did you... Yeah, I heard about it.

It was viral. So we had him on the podcast and everything and... Very harsh article. He took a beating. A logical beating, but he came in and we ended nicely, whatever it is. Article was very, very offensive towards the crowd. Now, this guy is a gay, topical comedian. It's exactly the kind of stuff that we're looking to do on the show. So I suggested in our meeting yesterday, I said, why don't we ask Guy Branum to come do some jokes? Because he does topical material and Ray

said, how could you let that guy after what he said? Is that what I said? No. What'd you say? Really? I said, really? The guy wrote that article and every comic loathes him and you're going to put him on stage? That's very different. It's kind of similar in the same vein. I said, I really

want to reward the guy who completely shit on your business. As opposed to me saying, really, you want to reward the guy who completely shit on your business? As opposed to me saying, how could you let that guy on the show? That's what you want? Or you just say, I don't think

there's a lot of other comics to put on. I said, Ray, you need to go home. You need to go home right now and watch The Godfather. And watch The Godfather.

And this is where it's dovetailing with Esty because you have to separate business from personal. Sure, and keep your enemies close. And I'm able to separate, in other words,

I can't change what Guy Branum said in the past, but what I can do is focus on what is going to be the best thing to make this pilot successful. You have your own ego stake, you're an EP, you want your respect. No, it's not about ego. This is about practicality. It's all about ego.

It's not about ego. Should I read your text message? When you start saying that you're offended, that's about ego. No, no, it's offensive that you can't. No, not offensive. You said you're offended. Offended. Yes, because it's offensive.

No, it's not. Listen, man. It's not ego. You didn't criticize my logic. You criticized your, you're talking, you come to me with your feelings. Maybe ego's not the right word. What I'm saying is. There's no reason why when you're collaborating on a TV project that me and her can't sit

down and talk about it. You can't say to her, Ray's the producer on the show. This show's gotten to where it is because of Ray. What's the big deal? Sooner or later, Estee has to accept the fact that Ray is a part of this show and that's it.

If Estee can't accept that, there's going to be a real problem. I think Noam's afraid of her. I have nothing but respect for her. My point is, if I were in your situation, I would say, Noam, do you think that SD is going to be better? It'll go better if I'm not there. With all the data and information

I had, you don't think that was useful? And I would have said, someone who takes their feelings out of it, said, listen, you know SD, whatever you think, whatever you say, boss, I'm with you. There were certain people that should have been on that first show that I knew about that are now not on the first show. And that right there could have been alleviated

if I just sat there and would have just saw, I could have talked for seven minutes and left. But why on earth, but the fact that you didn't want me to be there, that's more about you and your feelings. You're afraid I'm going to piss her off. Now Liz wants to say something, but you're really missing my point here. I am. Is that when you come at, listen, I'm dealing with this a lot.

When some people start coming at me with feelings, rather than laying out a logic as to why one course of action is actually better for our goal. You didn't listen to the logic, Norm. You made that decision without listening to logic. You just said, no, don't go there. Then I want to throw up my hands and say, you know what, this is not for me. Because I just don't operate that way. As soon as I get a start text message about how I'm offended. That's not, no, that was a conversation between you and you didn't respond.

And you should have picked up the phone and called me. I said give me a call and you didn't. I don't know how, that is quicksand. It's not quicksand. I'm in it right now. You brought it up. Listen, there's no reason why she and I couldn't collaborate on this. I've been working on this part of the show has been going on for six full days.

Okay. And you're telling me that the information I had and knowing what the network wanted. Is this better than O'Reilly or is this better than O'Reilly? You don't think that information would have been valuable to the production? You guys have not been privy to so much of this production. You're out of your mind. But what you have to understand is there has to be a level of diplomacy

that you don't have. See, this is where you guys have no idea what you're talking about. When you sit with Essie, I'm telling you 100%. Hey Liz, we sit here around here bullshitting over hummus. You're not with me at network meetings, at production meetings. You have no clue what I do. You get all the information that you needed

to give you gave. And it still wasn't conveyed correctly. I think Ray felt Then you failed. Forget feelings. I'm working my ass off on this thing and it's not getting executed correctly. I think if you had said to Ray, look Ray, you're an executive producer. We appreciate the work you're doing

and you're part and parcel of this show. But, Esty has certain, there is friction with Esty and we think it would go smoother if you weren't at the meeting. Ray might have, I think Ray feels as though you're diminishing his role and you don't, for example, you said ten minutes ago, you didn't even know he was

a producer. And I think that comes through. I don't think you, I don't think you accept Ray as part of the show. I don't think you... I didn't. I don't think you accept Ray as part of the show. But Dan, it's also foolishness, Dan. He's talking to me. But Dan,

it's also foolishness that he could say to this person he's known for 20 years and he's known me for what, 15 years, to turn to her and say, hey, you know,

just sit down with Ray and talk about this thing. It'd be so simple. But I think we can compromise and say, can I talk? Go ahead. First of all, Justin,

the bubble over your head, what are you thinking now, really? You watching the news? You watching Knicks? Knicks are down by two to the Wizards. Do you find this interesting at all? No, it's fascinating. Do you find yourself taking sides in any way?

This should be part of the show. This should be sitting around the five minutes where you guys are sitting around the table bullshitting. It should be bullshitting about who is going to make it onto the air. And then we see the comics and then... Everyone will hate each other. Yeah. Now, second of all, we actually had a face-to-face meeting last night where I said...

Hooray. To everybody at the table, I said, Liz and Ian will meet with Esty tomorrow. And at that meeting, which ended on its own, Ray did not say, I want to be at that meeting. I said to Liz after, I'll be at the thing too.

And I said, Liz, I'll be. I'm explaining to you where I was coming from. I came in, I drove, listen to me, I drove in. We didn't have a meeting scheduled. I drove in all the way from Westchester just for this meeting. I left my family on a day that I don't leave my family.

Everybody knew it. I sat down for an hour and a half, whatever it was, and I for this meeting. I left my family on a day that I don't leave my family. Everybody knew it. I sat down for an hour and a half, whatever it was, and I had the meeting. And there was nothing I left out. I said, this is who's going to meet. This is how it's going to be. And there were no objections at the meeting. You didn't say at the thing, I want to be there. You said it.

No. Yes, I said it to Liz. You said after I left. And then why did you jump into action Because Liz said Ray was going to go And then you went ahead and called Ian After I left, after I got home And now I'm with my family

I started getting angry text messages And I said to myself From whom? From you After I found out what you had told him I said it at the meeting I said Liz and Ian are going to meet with Essie tomorrow I got a phone call from him.

I don't want you to know. We shouldn't talk about him on this thing. So, I didn't, and I said to myself, I'm not going to get sucked into this again. We'll talk about it tomorrow. Sucked into it again? Have a two-minute conversation? Because you had ample opportunity to bring it up in the Olive Tree. No, because the way you conducted yourself at that meeting was inappropriate.

That's why I like having meetings in an office and not here hanging out at the Olive Tree. Because you talk like we're just hanging out BSing. Well, this is not going to work out. No, it will work out. No, it's not. No, you have no clue what's been going on. I'm not even kidding now. For months and months and months.

If you think it's inappropriate for me as the owner of the Comedy Cellar who invented this show, who did the whole thing, who pitched the whole show, who conceived the show to say, I want to have the meetings about this show in my business. That is inappropriate. No, no, that's not what I said was inappropriate. I said the way you behaved at the thing was inappropriate. How did I behave? You're sitting here, we're sitting with other people that we just met, who are now producers

also on the show. And it wasn't just all business, it was a lot of other bullshit. Like what? You can say. You're carrying on about what I wore on New Year's Eve. I mean, it's just like, what the fuck? Let's talk business. I'm giving you a's Eve. I mean, it's just like, what the fuck? Let's talk business. I'm giving you a break. But I don't think. Come on now.

There's no ego there. The bottom line is I've been listening. If I could be a Judge Judy for a second. I've been listening, and I think I know what the problem is. The problem is not whether or not Ray should be at the meeting. The problem is you don't take Ray Allen's contribution seriously. You just said that you invented this show. You came up with this show.

You pitched the show. That's true. I don't think. It's all true. But the tone in your voice minimized Ray Allen's contribution. The fact is there would be no show without Ray Allen. How do you know that? No.

Because you put the wheels in motion. You put the wheels in motion. Let me tell you something. It's funny you're saying that because I actually told you this idea about this show. No, you had the idea. No question. Wait, wait, wait. And somebody sitting next to us at the next table who also worked for a production company

overheard me telling you about it, remember? Yeah. And that production company called me the next day. And what happened? I didn't follow it up because I was already doing it with you, meaning that the idea was hot. It's a great idea. The idea was hot to every single person. And then you had a didn't follow it up because I was already doing it with you meaning that the idea was hot. It's a great idea. The idea was hot

to every single person and then you had a friend that it was mentioned to, right? And they were interested in the idea. Well, she thought it was a good idea.

There's lots of great ideas but they don't just mean they come to fruition. And the idea got pitched to Michael only because I have a relationship with him. Because you introduced

me to him. And I stayed with Michael. And we talked with other production companies and we thought that was the best fit. But it wasn't like I just, I mean, you're making it sound like I had nothing to do.

The bottom line is you allowed Ray to run with this. You could have said right up front, Ray, I want to run with this myself. And you didn't do that. You allowed Ray to run with this. And you have to. Outside of perspective. You have to accept that Ray Wait, wait, wait. Let the guys,

outside of perspective. I don't know any of you guys. I don't know any of the people who've been discussed for the past 20 minutes who aren't here. Right. Right? It seems clear that everyone wins if this show is a success. 100% right. Everyone wins if this show is a success.

Including Las Vegas. Yeah, especially Las Vegas. Las Vegas wins the most. But we're starting a room in Las Vegas. No one was starting a room in Las Vegas. Really? Oh, I thought that was just a bit. Oh, congratulations.

Good for you. Everyone wins if the show is a success, and the show has less of a chance of being a success if you're consumed by infighting and sort of fighting over turf. By the way, this is the first fight we've ever actually had regarding the show. Really? And thank God, because now we've cleared the air and we can go forward. This is the first one.

He and I actually work quite well together. I just wish you would clear up whether or not you're a producer on the show, Ray. That's the one thing I want to know. So what is your, what is, other than, okay, you're perfectly right. Obviously, everybody wins if the show's a success. What do you think about, how do we resolve now this dispute between Ray and Noam, outsider's perspective? Well, I think it's resolved.

Are the shows not good shows? No, no, no. It's not that they're? Outsiders' perspective. I think it's resolved. Are the shows not good shows? No, no, no. It's not that they're not. They're all good. No, no, no. The quality is great. With all of the people on your list.

But there's a handful of people. With the exception of one comedian who is on the second show in lieu of the first show. No, but there's also a couple others. We have to wrap it up. This is the fastest hour, and I didn't even get to talk about Fox News. We can go longer because, you know. But if I were in your shoes, I would say to myself, well, I guess there's a problem between me and Esty,

even though I might not realize it, even though I might not think it's my fault. And she's not going anywhere. So let me see what I can do to try to fix that issue, and maybe I should get together with her, talk to her, try to work it out with her so that there are no diplomatic issues. Now, in my head, when I thought we were all sitting down with her, I knew exactly how I would have approached the whole thing, approached the meeting.

It wouldn't have worked. It completely wouldn't have worked. I would have obviously just laid out a couple things from the network. I would have been... It completely would have worked. I would have obviously just laid out a couple things from the network. I would have been deferential to her. And that's it. I would never have said this, this, this. It would not have worked. It would have worked. You guys seem to underestimate... You don't know her then.

Then you have no idea who she is as a person. You guys don't. You guys really seem to underestimate how I am in a meeting. Even though you see me in now 30 meetings and they've always been great. So, I mean, it's foolishness. Well, this issue with Esty may or may not be resolvable. I don't know.

I love the woman. I don't know what the problem is. Well, the love is not necessarily reciprocated. Requited. In full. I think, you know, I think it could be sticky. But Noam, Ray is, Esty's not going anywhere. Ray is not going anywhere either.

Do you accept Ray as a full part of the show? He knows. We've been working on this for so long, Dan. Of the show. I can't do it. You can't do it. Wow. That's not nice.

I accept. I accept. I've worked very hard on this for a long time. I think that... And we've worked well together for a long time. Yeah, we do work well together. I didn't know you were going to be an executive producer. And as a matter of fact, this is the truth.

We had a conversation about what your role would be. And I didn't, and I wasn't... A while ago, a long time ago. Yeah, and the answer I gave you wasn't exactly the answer you wanted. And the answer I gave you was, your role can be anything that's justified by your contribution to the show. So I said, well, maybe, and I was thinking about what that could be, and I said, well, maybe if, because I was not particularly impressed by the idea that because you happened to be

in the room when I pitched it to somebody that that warrants, maybe there's a dollar amount in the customer, the industry for that kind of thing. You're kind of diminishing that part, too. Yeah, but that's what I said. I'm just recapitulating what I said to you. I said, but I just don't think that way. I think people do favors. People make introductions.

If I introduce somebody to somebody and they make a deal, I don't expect them to kick back money to me or something like that. But me being in the room helps sell it because I have a good relationship with those people. Whatever, but I'm saying things can help.

People can help people without thinking that they're married for life into the project. Uh-huh. But, so I would never particularly sold that the fact that you helped in some way meant that now you had to be on this project forever, collecting a check.

I don't look at the world that way. If that's custom in the industry, then I would have to go with it, but that's not the way I use it. But it wasn't a one-day thing. I've worked on it for over two years. What I said was that you need to find something that you can do that contributes to the success of this project on a daily basis. And what I suggested was

maybe we can do man-on-the-street interviews about the issues of the day. And that could be your thing and that could be your way of having a role in the show every week. And it's still possible, but we don't know what the network wants it. You being an executive producer, not that I really know what an executive producer does

or what that entails you to. Who's the paramount showrunner of the show? The showrunner is Ian Gelfand. What does Ian Gelfand say? He doesn't have to say anything. He got on board after all this was already sorted out. Hang on a second. A showrunner. Paul, he came on board after

everything was done. Paul, Paul, Paul. Don't yell at me, Ray. I've only been working on TV shows for 15 years. Show us your Emmy. Let's see your Emmy. All right, Ray. Fuck you, Ray. Fuck you.

Fuck you. Another fight with Paul on the air. Incredible. Ian's a terrific showrunner. He got on board. I'm not attacking you. I'm not attacking you, Ray. Did I tell you my two most truculent guests?

Did I predict? I knew. I knew. But actually in that case, Paul was innocent. We have to wrap it up. We can go longer. The showrunner was pretty good stuff. The showrunner was hired after everything. Can you say, can you admit one thing?

Can you admit one thing? And this is exactly my problem. That crack about Paul's Emmy. That's a comic fucking with a comic. Was totally below the belt and uncalled for. How was it below the belt? He won an Emmy. Because he's trying to just offer an opinion and you just attack him personally. Because, no, that's not why I said that joke.

It's because I was trying to just explain to him this whole thing with the showrunner was hired after everything was already signed, sealed, and delivered. Then we brought in the showrunner. Let's talk reality, and then we're going to wind it up. It's my show. I'm interested in creative input, making this show as good as it can be. If you have good creative input, people will not let you leave.

They will claw you to this show. If you are going to try to, anybody, not just you, anybody in life, going to try to hold on to a position because you have a title because of this or because you were some technicality, you may be able to hold on to it legally. I don't even know the details of that. But it's going to be a bad relationship.

You've got to contribute. You've got to make people say... You need to do your job and work hard. And you have to do the job in a way that someone else couldn't do it for half the money. That's true. Yeah. Well, who owns this show, for God's sakes? I mean, there's somebody somewhere that...

I think Michael and I are going to own this show, I think. You know, I'm such a... I mean, whoever owns the show then has to decide what everybody's role is in the show. If Comedy Central owns the show... This is it. First of all, I really like Justin. I love Justin. You're awesome. And you should

come and hang out with us. I'll get you some of the nicer comics and we can all hang out. Putting on my legal hat, did you or did you not know that Ray Allen was doing all this work all this time? Would a reasonable person not know that Ray Allen was trying to be one of the producers?

You know what? I guess I don't know enough about TV to know that everybody who... No, but he was going to meetings. He was pitching. He did a sizzle reel. Come on. Nobody's going to do that just to do it. Somebody could do that for a job.

I don't have to be executive producer. No one was getting paid. Yeah, well, I mean... I knew you expected to get paid. I just didn't know. I mean, I mean, I think... I knew you expected to get paid. I mean, executive producer, I think, entitles you to certain... Does it entitle you to... Does it entitle you to residuals? You know what? You should have a conversation with an entertainment

lawyer, and seriously, or Michael, and just say, this is the protocol. I mean, it's like... It doesn't affect anyone else's... It doesn't affect your money. It doesn't affect anybody's money. Every dollar that you get is something that someone else could get. No, because in the budget, there's going to... Let's say there's a budget... There's four producers in the budget, so it doesn everybody's money. Every dollar that you get is something that someone else can get. No, because in the budget, let's say there's four producers in the budget. So it doesn't affect you. Every dollar you get is a dollar that someone else can get.

Maybe we could do it with three. But that wouldn't happen. Well, it seems to me like... There's also sort of a protocol that... I mean, we're working with a production company that's done 50 shows. So their budget's pretty standard. Let me tell you something. Where have you been the last two years?

The budget that we get for this show, I don't know where the money's going. It's not going to me. We could do four pilots for this money. I don't know how TV works and where they get this money from or whatever it is. We're building a club in Vegas. We're building a whole fucking

club in Vegas from scratch for not much more money than this four-day stupid digital product is going to cost us with cameras. That's not unique, though, to our show. That's every show. It's insanity. I mean, what is it called? The cameras are not being manufactured just for this show.

You know, they amortize the cameras. I don't know. Let's tell them $1,000 a day. Well, the craft services get out. Now you have $20,000 in cameras. We got everything bag Well, the craft service is good. Now you have $20,000 in cameras. We've got everything bagels in the craft service. That's a hummus. Digital. You do the editing on a PC or an Apple.

An editor makes $200 an hour, $1,000 an hour. Where is the money going? Are we going to have scallion cream cheese or not in the craft service? I'm telling you, you could do this for $35,000. And there's where your money is going. Now. $35,000 tops. It would look no different than what we're going to make. Justin, what do you make of all this?

Do you have any closing thoughts? I actually want to ask Paul about his Emmy. Oh, ask him, ask him, ask him. I do. I've never sat next to someone who's won an Emmy. I'm working for The Daily Show. Tell him. Congratulations.

I'm actually curious. If you have an actual physical Emmy in your possession, where do you keep it? Not that I'm going to break into your house. I'm just curious. Do you display it? Right next to me in bed. Right next to me. No, I keep it on a bookcase. Next to his son's pubic hair. For all he was keeping it in a chain around his neck. And yeah, that's where I keep it. When people come over, do they ask to see the Emmy, or have you already shown it to

everyone who wants to see it? I haven't. You know how the Pope drives around in a Popemobile with plexiglass? I drive around with that, with the Emmy behind, pulling the Emmy in that. People see it, and they're like, is that an Emmy? And then they bring it down, and then they comment how sharp the wings are. The wings are really

sharp. The wings, yeah. No shit, they're actually super sharp. You could almost cut the chicken cutlet here with those wings. Is your name engraved on it? Yes. The weird thing is that you leave it behind when you win it, and then you forget about it, and it's delivered in a corrugated box,

and I thought my wife ordered some stuff from Amazon or something, and you open it up, and there's your Emmy with your name on it. It's the weirdest fucking thing ever. So, yeah, I mean, that's thing ever. I need you to pick a side between Ray and Noam. I need you to do it. Don't let me down, buddy. I think the division is done. It's over. Look, I am on the

side of whoever and whatever is going to actually get the show made. Too much arguing and not enough attention to the details makes it less We all want a great show, but Ray Allen. Dan, you're forgetting something. Things are done. Everybody wants a great show.

It'll benefit the seller. It'll be huge for the seller in Vegas. It'll benefit every comic. I want to make sure you get what you merit. It's going to be shot in Vegas at the end of the year. No, no, it'll be shot at the Underground. We have to wrap. Ladies and gentlemen, very much thank you to Justin.

One of my favorite guests. You didn't speak as much as I like very much thank you to Justin one of my favorite guests you didn't speak as much as I'd like you to but you're one of my favorite guests you did take up like 30 minutes like arguing no it's not your fault

it's our fault I wish we had you're a damn good guest Justin Justin has a nice face he's a face that inspires trust yeah he does

he looks like he's a Justin a little bit like Leo Allen he's got a good sense of humor Justin Peters yeah Justin Peters He's a face that inspires trust. Yeah, he does. He seems like a nice guy. A little bit like Leo Allen. He's got a good sense of humor. Justin Peters. Yeah.

Justin Peters. And he was objective on Fox, which is an amazing thing for someone who works for Slate to even do. And he's objective about New Year's Eve, too. Fox and Friends is also unwatchable. It's an incredible journey. Unwatchable. Unwatchable. Okay.

Well, what can I tell you? Except my Trump. Trump watches it every morning and tweets it out. Hopefully, look for this week at the comedy set, whatever they're going to call it. We're going to be talking about it quite a bit between now and when we get to decide what it's called. Okay, good night, everybody.