The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Kristof’s Israel Allegations, the Danger of Circling the Wagons and More | Peter Savodnik

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

Peter Savodnik joins us to talk about Nicholas Kristof’s column alleging abuse of Palestinian prisoners, including the most extreme dog-rape allegation, and how pro-Israel people should respond when the reporting is weak but the underlying issue may still deserve investigation. We talk about the difference between bad journalism and false accusations, the danger of reflexively circling the wagons, Ben-Gvir and the Israeli prison system, antisemitism, double standards against Israel, whether Jews are being pushed back into history, JD Vance, Marco Rubio, Gavin Newsom, Jonathan Haidt, Twitter addiction, and the general collapse of everyone’s sanity online. Peter Savodnik reported for The New York Times Magazine, The Atlantic, The Guardian, GQ, Wired and other venues from the former Soviet Union, the Middle East, Asia and across the United States. His book, The Interloper: Lee Harvey Oswald Inside the Soviet Union, was published in 2013 by Basic Books. He is now a senior editor at The Free Press and based in Los Angeles. https://x.com/petersavodnik Chapters: 00:00 Intro and Peter Savodnik joins 01:16 Nick Kristof’s Israel prison-abuse column 06:15 Olmert, Benny Morris, Haviv Rettig Gur, and what may actually be true 10:00 Double standards, bad reporting, and how Israel should respond 15:56 The dog-rape allegation and the danger of reflexive denial 22:22 Why Israel may need its own serious investigation 24:23 Circling the wagons vs. demanding proof 28:17 What real reporting would require 34:03 Retractions, antisemitism, and “emptying our pockets” for every accusation 38:27 Are Jews and Israel entering a more dangerous historical moment? 49:11 JD Vance, Rubio, Trump, and the future of the Republican Party 57:18 Gavin Newsom, 2028, and the Democrats 59:26 Jonathan Haidt, NYU, wokeness, and phone addiction 01:04:13 Twitter fights, the new Comedy Cellar room and final thoughts

Hey, this is live from the table, the official podcast of the world famous comedy seller. Available wherever you get your podcast. Dan Natterman here, back from an Alaska cruise with stops in Ketchkan, Juno, and Skagway. Here with Noam Dorman, the owner of the comedy seller, with locations in New York's Greenwich Village and Las Vegas. No locations in Alaska. Perry Al-Asham-Brandt joins us. We have via Zoom. Peter Savadnik, journalist.

His writings have appeared in the New York Times magazine, The Atlantic, The Guardian, GQ, Wired, and numerous others. He's also the author of The Interlober Lee Harvey Oswald inside the Soviet Union. And we welcome him to our show. And I assume there's lots to discuss this week. Well, there is a lot to discuss, Dan. Hello, sir. Very nice to meet you, sort of in person.

Likewise. After following you for a long time. So, yeah, like we got hit. We got blindsided now by this Nick Christoph piece, right? There's nothing else to talk about, but that probably. But we can just shoot the shit. But let's start. You know, I was going through your Twitter feed from the last couple of days.

And, of course, you can bring up anything you like. But let's just start there because, this is this is really testing my ability to stay objective and just based on what the facts are. What are your thoughts about that Christoph piece? I think that this is what happens when you're an aging boomer with a C plus, maybe a C-minus intellect. Look, I didn't come here to be insulted. You're trying to, you're trying to, you know, get on the level with the, the young and the hip, and you, and you, you want to embody their point of view. I think he also has, like, a longstanding sort of, you know, distaste for Israel.

And he was duped. He's the easiest kind of mark for this sort of propaganda, which he has very effectively laundered in the New York Times. Well, what is, what did he say that's, in your opinion, false? and how do you know it's false? Why are you so sure it's false? Well, I don't know. I don't know that it's all false. I think there's a lot of exaggeration.

I think all of it is unsubstantiated. I think that, you know, he had this sort of assonite follow-up tweet where he said, you know, some people have asked why this wasn't a news story instead of, you know, an opinion column. And I said it was, you know, I like to report my columns. That's the best kind of, you know, opinion, you know, journalism. That's a long-winded way of saying that, you know, a reporter, a news reporter would not actually have reported this in its current state.

So look, maybe there's a lot there, but he doesn't have any facts, reportage backing it up. He's got no one on the record. He's got all the usual suspects who are just piling on with the most grotesque sort of anti-Semitic tropes and libel. If he got, you know, some people on the record talking about this, if he got doctors and nurses and soldiers and people who had skin in the game who were going to lose out by speaking to him saying, you know, look, this terrible thing has happened many times and I can't believe it, but someone has to know or the world has to know, that would be one thing.

But instead he gets people who are making these sort of like very, very kind of graphic claims to then get repeated by organizations with an agenda that serve as a kind of proof of these claims. And it's a kind of circular, autological reasoning. It's idiotic. And I think it jibes with Christos' worldview in any event. So whatever. The whole thing is a mess. And, you know, I wish the time as well.

He said that there were 14 people he spoke with, 14 people that ex-prisoners. Do you feel that that's a fabrication, or there really were 14 people that spoke and listed these accusations? No, no, I'm sure he spoke with those people. I don't think he's that reckless. I think he spoke with those people. I don't think that he fact-checked them. That's my suspicion. And look, none of the kind of reporting that wanted to say, like, Abu Ghraib is here.

So there's no kind of nuance. there's no really corroborating evidence. There are no voices, again, from people who have something to lose in this. And that's the big tell. Usually in a story like this, what you want is you want somebody who has something to lose, who speaks up because then you know there's something authentic there. But in this case, it's people who have been saying awful, awful things about Israel, saying just one more awful thing about Israel, which in this case is especially awful.

You want a whistleblower, ideally, from the Israeli side, is what you say. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And also, like, the whole, like, bringing in, like, a Houdel Omert is, like, you know, especially when you take into account of Omar's, like, you know, follow-up comment. It's especially irresponsible and disingenuous. You know, he uses this comment as a way of kind of, like, covering everything he reports. But O'Mart, it's clear from the piece itself and then from the follow-up remark that, or a statement that Omar issued, you know, you know, didn't really know what the hell Christoph was getting it. Yeah. So I have a lot to say about this. So first of all, let's start with Allmer. So Almert's, Omar is a former Prime Minister of Israel.

Christoph asked him what he knew about this and presented him with the accusations. And Almert's response was, I know nothing about that. You know, I can't corroborate any of that. he didn't say that's ridiculous i i i i find that very hard to believe that that sounds preposterous to me uh he it's it's it's the most it's it's the weakest like if if uh you told me that my wife uh was stabbed somebody in times where i say come on no he you like i say well i don't i don't know anything about that i'll have to i'll have to look into that and get back to you. So I didn't like Omar's response. And then, you know, let me just put a few

things into evidence. A year ago, Manny Morris wrote a column about dehumanization and genocide. And he concluded that there was no genocide in Gaza. But he warned that both sides were heading down a kind of well of worse and worse behavior and worse and dehumanization of each other. And he has this paragraph. The ongoing process of dehumanization is apparent and evident from IDF soldiers' testimonies published in social media in the Daily Hararets and occasionally on TV channels, similarly the brutality of soldiers, police, and prison wardens towards Palestinian prisoners in jail and detention centers,

where beatings and the occasional torture of detainees has been common, especially during this war's first months, has elicited only criticism. So he's speaking about it as if it's common knowledge. Haviv Retagor also seemed, I don't want to get him wrong, but I think he basically said that he believes that there's abuse going on in the Israeli prisons. He said there is abuse, but it's not nearly,

it's orders of magnitude less than what is spoken of. of in Christoph's article. Okay, if that's what he said. Yeah, no, he had a video saying that. But he said, yeah, sure, yeah. And then, you know, of course, they put a guy in charge, this is very significant. I'm reading tea leaves here,

but they put a guy in charge of the prison system who complained that the prisoners were eating too well and need to be treated more harshly, right, Ben Gavere. Now, anybody understands how organizations work and understand how the fish, from the head down, this is the most dangerous situation you can imagine. Prison systems are dystopian. We know that. They almost always descend into that. Now you put a guy in charge who doesn't say, listen here, no matter what they did to us, we're Jews, and we're going to behave

like Jews, and we're going to make sure that we don't do to them what they did to us, and they'll be held to pay. And I expect everybody to pay the law. blah, the kind of things that we want all prison wardens or, you know, people, whatever's position is to say in normal times, but to be also, of course, on the lookout to an extraordinary times when these are the same people who are responsible for the hostages being tortured in Gaza, of course, you're in a very, very, and instead, he telegraphs to them, listen, don't treat these people too well. Now, this is the most dangerous situation you could have for.

for this kind of thing to happen. So it's almost for certain that some of this has to be true. That's without getting to the dog accusation. So go ahead. I think it has to be, I think it's definitely true that there's been abuse

and that there has been deprivation of civil liberties and rights and all kinds of wrongs committed because that is the nature of war. That is the nature of any kind of, you know, subjugating power. But what distinguishes, you know, Christoph's column from these kind of normal allegations is that it singles out the Jewish state. It would have us believe that there is something singularly evil about this, right?

He didn't write a column about Russia trying to cleanse ethnically Ukraine, trying to erase the idea of Ukraineness. He wrote a column about Israel and about how Israel is doing this, this unbelievably awful thing. And by the way, it comes out just before we're going to learn about all the awful things that Hamas actually did do to the Jews. So, yes, I agree completely. Has there been wrongdoing? Is there, you know, are there IDF soldiers who are who are, who are, you know, exploiting their power or the relative weakness of those they're occupying or or uh policing or yes no without a doubt that that is the nature of war and it's awful and uh we should try to put it

into that as soon as possible and thankfully israel is a democratic society and and the israeli people you know Israelis don't have you know there there is a great deal of stomach appetite for for prosecuting that kind of stuff. And so I think, look, I'm not, I actually worry much less about Israel depriving people of their civil liberties than I would about most armies. But Christoph decided to where I call them about. Well, okay. So let me say, this is, this is an issue which comes around a lot. I can't think of anything on top of my head. But quite often, the truth about a matter, a horrible matter, is exposed by people with an agenda. And, and then people say, Why don't you turn that same magnifying glass on somebody else?

I guess Woodward and Bernstein probably wouldn't have gone after George McGovern like they went after Richard Nixon. But that's really, you know, it's true and it's good to put in perspective, but it doesn't really go to the heart of the matter. And then, of course, one could say Israel goes around all the time saying, we're the most moral army in the world, or the most moral army in the world. So that kind of smugness will tempt somebody to say, oh, yeah?

Well, how about this? And that's valid. Well, in their defense, they never said we have the most moral prison system in the world. Thanks, Dan. And you're right, but it's always, look, I don't, I'm yet to meet an Israeli who thinks that Israelis are somehow exempt from all the usual, you know, deprivations and cruelties that you find around the world, that is Israelis who somehow think that they're not human.

But I guess it's always the same thing. It's a double standard. So, yes, you're right. There should be an investigation. If there is something substantive there, there should be much greater scrutiny paid to this. I do think that you're right, that the message from the top is all wrong. and, you know, this government is obviously not helpful to the Jewish state or the Jewish people in that regard.

But, you know, it's hard not to recoil at the column because of the double standard. Yeah, look, I, you know, I mean, you're somewhat familiar with my opinions on things. I mean, I would say, you know, I don't mix my support. I get sidetracked here. Like I was texting with somebody today. And to me, the most important battle is to remove the asterisk next to Israel's name in the list of nations, such that people behave as if Israel is kind of on probation. And if they don't behave, they can yet expel.

and lose their country as no other can, meaning that if we found out, and it wouldn't shock me, that America tortured and raped German prisoners during the Second World War, I would say that's horrible. That's a black mark on America. Would that have meant that I should stop supporting

America in the war against the Nazis or that America shouldn't defend itself or that America shouldn't be a country anymore? No, of course not. So my support, for Israel is not affected by these stories in terms of whether it has every right to exist, whether rights to defend itself, anything you can imagine that any other nation would have to, anything we'd expect of any other nation if we uncovered something horrible that

they were doing. We would never think, oh, that's it for them. You know, why they lose their status. So I had that straight in my head. Nevertheless, I want to know what's true, and we'll get to this dog thing, and then we'll move on to the stuff. So, you know, I try to imagine, okay, well, what if some hostages were released from Gaza? And they reported this story that they were raped by dogs. I would give it a listen, right? Like part of it, part of what's going on here is that just we just won't listen to it because of the source. and there may be some legitimacy to that standard.

On the other hand, I spent a lot of time looking into it in the last 24 hours, and I went from a 0% chance of it being true to maybe a 10% or 15% chance that it could be true. And I can tell you why. I pray it's not true. I'm still 85% to 90% feel that it's not true. So the first, and I'll just put it out there, the first kind of thing, and this really isn't

100% on point, but it just kind of sparked me. You know, Ronan Bergman was on Call Me Back. And do you know how Israel got the Iranian documents, the Iranian nuclear archive documents out of Iran, despite the fact that it was being guarded by dogs? I do not. They used the urine, I believe it's the urine, of dogs in heat. And they put this urine somewhere. And apparently, according to Bergman, they were told by veterinarians with security clearances

that this works 100% of the time. So I said, that's, you know, that's quite a coincidence. Israel's, you know, dabbling with estrus urine. And then I thought to myself, no, but that's really just a coincidence, because that's the massads on a very high level and they're trying to get documents out of Iran. This is just low-level prison guard brutes, right? They're not going to have access to the thing.

So that probably was just a connection without substance. But then I started, you want to break in? I got more. I'm curious to hear more about the dog. Yeah. So then, you know, I just began to look into it more closely. And a lot of people saying, you can't train a dog to do that.

You can't train a dog. And I began to realize, no. Of course, you can't train a dog to do that. And if you look into the literature, and Christoff referred to this one of his tweets, of the children who have been penetrated by dogs, so obviously it is possible, what happened is that in every one of those cases, a dog was aroused somehow. And in one of the cases, the child cooperated. In another case, a girl was only six, so at some point, there's no way she could have cooperated.

but, and they show pictures, at some point when the dog is aroused, it starts to hump and it will penetrate a human if it's triggered. It's not that anybody could train a dog to do that. It's that a dog can be triggered to do that. Right. And then, so that framing was a little disingenuous.

A dog can be triggered to do that. And of course, if it could, if it could do it to a, child that's not a couple children that are not bound, it could certainly maybe be triggered to do it to a human who is bound, right? So that's like, okay, well, this is actually more possible, seems to me, than they're saying. But then this is where I dropped to the 10%, I dropped by 10%. In an interview with a Hamas or a Palestinian from Gaza, I'm not sure what is, if she was part of Hamas about this, a witness to it. He said the following. He said, well, the prison guards, they bound up this guy, then they sprayed something on his backside, and then he was raped by the dog.

This is an old interview. I said, Jesus, that's a very weird detail. They sprayed something on his backside. I never heard that. And, you know, I'm always on the lookout for specificity. like when some customer complains about something that happened at the club and they have all these details. And of course, everyone works and you'll deny it. That never happened. That never happened.

I'd be like, listen, look at all the detail in this email. Either this person has the talent of a great Russian novelist or some of this happened. You can't. So it's like very weird detail to say at a time when you know. So that's, you know, that's troubling. I can grant you. Yeah.

Like the, that kind of specificity is, is troubling. And it is incumbent upon the authorities in Israel to look into that. I think you respond to this the same way I did or more or less for the same reason, which is the eagerness to pounce. No one denies or no one should deny that people with guns, an occupying force, have exploitative. power that and and no one denies it in the large military organization and army they're they're going to be bad apples are going to be people who do bad things and in fact there may be institutional problems the way you noted in the beginning uh with ben givir studying the wrong tone and and and and and sort of they're being sort of an implicit policy of brutalization that all may be true and that should all

be investigated it's it's it's the eagerness to to to power It's the willingness to set aside the normal skepticism, the normal sort of process of reporting and investigating sleuthing that gets always jettisoned when it comes to the Jewish state. So yes, I grant you that all this sounds troubling. And I guess my feeling about all this is it will be a wonderful day when we can have these conversations about things. criticisms, very legitimate, possibly criticisms of Israel, without immediately jumping to the conclusion that there's something bad faith about them. Well, you know, in New York City history, when police brutality was rampant and it came to light, they convened the Mullin Commission and the people in charge made it their business to air it and root it out.

And it's incumbent upon Israel now to do that. And I think that if they don't do that, we can infer something from that as well. I'm not talking about the dog incident, but in general, if you are clean or relatively clean and you're accused of something, your first instinct to say, is to say, oh no, come inside, come look, ask anybody you want. Here it is. Let's have a, let's have a hearing. You speak to anybody you'd like, right?

That doesn't seem to be their reflex. Now, maybe that's because of the reasons you say. They have another reflex, which is fuck the world. You know, nothing we do is ever satisfying them. You're right. That is true. And why should we hop to it just because of a bunch of false accusations? how many times you're going to do that to us i i understand that but this may be different go ahead

well it may be and and i think look in in many ways israel is hurt by by the kind of the this sort of disposition the the global disposition to towards or an anti-israeli position because there is this resistance to criticism this resistance to kind of like self-inquiry or self-self you know sort of exploration or investigation that that we would we would want that that that is necessary in any kind of, you know, democratic society, any kind of society. And so, yes, that's all true. I just think that that is something of a luxury right now that Israel doesn't really have, can't really afford.

What would, go ahead. What is the best way on social media? I spent a good deal of time on Twitter slash X. Many people, maybe most people that are pro-Israel, they're not saying the proof is inadequate, but it should be investigate. They're not saying that. The people that I see are saying this is a blood liable. It's not true. And regarding the dog, they're saying it's impossible. And you're an idiot if you think otherwise. Is that the appropriate response? Is no response the appropriate response? Or is what we're saying here the appropriate response is this should be

looked into, but it's also not proven. Sure. I look, I don't think any serious crime should just be disregarded. We're talking about a large number of people. They're going to be bad things that happen. And I think, yes, it's essential that Israel look into those things the way that we would expect the American government to do the same or anywhere else. That's not what's in question. And I think that distinguishing between those two things is critical. Yes, Israel needs to police itself and the double standard.

is is grotesque. Yeah, I mean, can you show me, first of all, these allegations are horrifying. And like, I can't, I can't even begin to tell you how deeply I pray for both the Palestinians and the Israelis that this is not true. I mean, the graphic details of what you're describing are just beyond the pale. I can't even imagine. but the thing that I'm wondering here is these are male prisoners, right? I mean, penetrating a woman, raping a woman.

These children who are in a scientific literature that were penetrated by animals are boy in the anus. When was a boy? When was a girl? I think there's a third. Where is, what? Oh, I spent $75 today downloading the actual articles because I wanted to read them from myself. It's okay. I charge you to the business.

What what like what what what who are these people where what are this is so off these are weird these are weird events but and and in in one or two of them the kids themselves were clearly exploring weird sexual things I don't even know well all it is is that it's clearly true that this can happen um penetrating in I don't I don't want to well I mean you don't want to what do you mean mean? What's your question? Well, my main point was that, you know, when you were talking about that, you know, people just opening up their prisons. And I mean, what other country, I mean, to Peter's point about like this double standard, what other country, I mean, of all of the horrors that are going around the entire world, would ever be asked, I mean, to open up their anything and be expected to let? No, no, Israel needs to do it itself for its, for its, for, for its, for its, for, for Listen, this is a problem. We've come to this impasse before.

And I don't even know if I should be talking about this on my podcast. I said, like, I don't want to leave bread crumbs further. I don't fucking know what the right thing to do is here. I know that if I, that my, and this may be selfish, like, my feeling is if I'm going to go on the show and talk about something, that I'm not going to, that I have to talk about it honestly. I'm not going to, you know, not reveal things that I know. It's out there in a public record. Any idiot can find it.

Of course. So, but, you know, I'd also, I don't want to. call attention. I don't even know. But the thing is, I just want to know what's true. Okay? I agree. More important than Israel and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, if I'm, I need, I'm trying to determine what's true in the world and then proceed from there and everything. I agree with you guys 100% about the double standard or about A, B, C, D, E, and F. But before that, I just want to know, all these accusations true. I agree with you 100%. And I also think that the way that Christoff reported this, it really leaves a lot to be desired.

Like, this is like a world-class journalist. Like, you, this was such a sloppy job. Well, it's not really repeated. Right. Thank you. Okay. I mean, the thing is he, because you can get, look, you can always get lots of people to say lots of awful, awful things.

He has undermined the cause of both Israel and the Palestinians with the story. He has made Israel look awful, and he has raised lots of questions about the credibility of Palestinians. The better thing to do would have been to have reported it. And look, maybe he's on to the beginning of something big. Okay, but this is just the very, very tip of the iceberg and the very beginning. And there would be you would need records, you would need people speaking on the record. you would, I mean, this is big stuff, and you can't just throw it out there and hope that, you know. What would be the standard journalistically to, for an article on this subject, not as an opinion piece, but as a regular article?

What would need, what would the minimum, you know, evidence need to be? Look, I mean, I write for the free press, and I can tell you that if I were to bring this to, you know, the editors or, like, you know, bear, I would say something like we've got, you know, we would have to have several people on the record alleging what they alleged. And he's got that sort of. Then we would need people, there would have to be some kind of record.

There would have to be medical records, police records, military records. There would have to be documents, emails, texts, things that could substantiate what these people are saying. Then there would have to be someone in, inside of the Israeli, you know, sort of intelligence world or, or the IDF, who could, who could say, well, I can see how this might have happened, yes, or, you know, we have a policy of turning a blind eye to, you know, this unit or these actions because we have other things to worry about

or whatever. In other words, there would have to be a lot of people to help build the case. And then you would, you would absolutely have to include a voice in there who said, I just don't believe this happened. I think this is all horseshit. And then someone who could either engage with that or whatever, but that you have then a much more kind of a full or more robust discourse within the article

so that it captures the full sentiment. Yeah, I agree with you. And I, although I debated it with somebody today who is really smart, so maybe I have to reconsider, but I felt like they smuggled a news story via the opinion page and therefore we're able to bypass

these things that you're referring to, although the person I spoke to is a newspaper person, and he disagreed. But let's talk about it from another point of view, which is that, you know, this is a, in this scenario, all those normal methods that you're speaking of are, you know, unlikely to bear fruit because it's so radioactive and it's a military slash prison type situation. And somebody like Christoph, and, you know, if it was a different issue, we would be sympathetic to this. It was an issue that was close to our hearts.

We would be sympathetic to the saying, listen, I'll go in public with all this smoke and I'm going to mix my metaphors and I'm going to shake the tree. And after I've done this, you wait and see. see everything that you think I should have had before. This is going to begin to come out. And there's no other way to break this ground. It's a third metaphor.

There's no other way to break this ground unless we do something like this. And then it's, and now, and he's, that's true. We're going to see all sorts of things come out now because of this. Was that what happened with some of the Me Too stories, Cosby and others, Louis, that they just threw some shit out there and, and, got the ball rolling? Farrell, is he named Ronner Farrell wrote an article?

Right. I feel a lot of shit. I mean, we'll see. But I mean, so far in the 24, whatever hours it's been, you know,

I haven't seen anything corroborating this. But yeah, maybe over the next several weeks, months, there'll be follow-up stories. Well, people who want to, people who want to prove that it's not true

we're going to be activated now to go, you know. Maybe. I guess I, you know, I'm, I'm a little bit skeptical of the claim that, you know, like, there aren't Israelis who couldn't have substantiated what he was alleging in the piece. Every time I post anything on X about Israel, no matter what I say, inevitably, there are like five or ten Israelis who, who like jump on me and say, like, you're an idiot. You're not Israeli.

You have no idea what you're doing. And they can be coming at this from the right, the left, whatever. That's fine. You know, that's part of the conversation. But my point is that it should be easy, actually, for him to find disgruntled ex-IDF, even Shimbab, or Mossad agents, officers, people who could say, yeah, I don't think this is so hard to believe. And I don't know why he didn't have them. Should a retract. I mean, I see people on X. I hate calling it X, but whatever. I feel like the same people that say X also use the word retarded every other second. But they seem to go together. But in any case, I see people on X saying, you know, pushing for a retraction. That seems to be like the worst idea. Like, oh, let's confirm the Jews control the media.

And the stories out, look at stories out there. He's a Jews on X. You didn't like that. Yeah, Jews, it's saying, well. I agree with that. I feel like that in the same way I feel about like Thomas Massey's re-election or whatever. Like, I feel like I don't know what's better, like, defeating Massey or Massey not being defeated, thereby disproving the anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that APEC controls the Congress.

So, yes, I think, like, the story should stand. The Times should stand. If there's a problem, then they should acknowledge as much, or they should just have a clarification and say, like, look, this is an opinion piece, and it would never actually have run in our news pages. By the way, you saw the story that broke, I think it's within the last couple hours, that ran Paul's son drunkenly. So I'll just read the tweet here. Rand Paul's son drunkenly accosted and hurled anti-Semitic insults.

And Representative Mike Lawler at a Capitol Hill bar on Tuesday night. His son told Lawler that if Representative Thomas Massey loses, it's going to be because of your people. My people? Lawler asked Paul. Yeah, you Jews, Paul responded. Do you think I'm Jewish? Loller asked?

I'm not. Oh, wow. I'm sorry for calling you a Jew. Then he said, the Jews were anti-American and Halalor and his Jewish supporters served Israel more than America. So that's disturbed. Grandpa Ron was known for not being keen on the Jews. I didn't know.

Rand was a suspect. I was troubled by that. I profiled Rand Paul earlier this year. Because right after the whole debacle in Minneapolis and ICE, and I spoke with him for a while in his office in D.C. And, you know, he's one of the few politicians I've interviewed in the past, you know, a few years who I actually, you know, kind of liked. But, you know, I guess his son is an asshole.

I don't know. I don't know anything about his son. I mean, are we supposed to take, like, every fucking insane thing that people say about us and, like, deal with it? Like, there is no bottom to this. I mean, I think I think it's a point. Sorry. What?

No, no, go ahead. Go ahead, Peter. No, I mean, I think that's an important point. I mean, it's the old, like, Sartre equip, right? Like, the point of the anti-Semite is not, when he accuses the Jew of having stolen, you know, something, it's not, it's not, like, the point is not to, like, lodge an accurate, like, accusation. It's to force the Jew to go through the process of, like, emptying out his pockets and to legitimize the accusation. And I think, you know, Israel runs the risk always of being kind of. of like, you know, like reeled into or or or or kind of like brought into these, these accusations

and and, you know, could spend all of its like waking hours doing nothing but fending off the most grotesque allegations against it. A hundred percent. I mean, did Nicholas Christoph write anything about all of the women who were raped? Like I, that's a real question that Hamas raped. Like, did he dig his fucking pen into any of those stories? No, it's too busy waiting about how Israel shouldn't attack Hamas after October 7th. I mean, it's outrageous.

Like, obviously, if that shit happened, it's horrible and it shouldn't happen and it's inexcusable. And you know that I think- I can list you 30 pro-Israeli writers who didn't spill any ink ever talking about injustices to Palestinians or anything like that. People have their agendas. Well, aren't you not supposed to have an agenda? if you're reporting, quote-unquote, he's an opinion writer. I understand what you're saying.

I just think that this is really become, this kind of criticism only comes out when your ox is gourd. No, it's just like, where is the bottom? Like, at what point is it just like... Well, that's why we need to determine what's true. I don't, I'm not disputing that. Because...

But do we turn out our pockets at every accusation? I guess is the question. Well, we're in trouble, okay? The Jewish people are in trouble, and we are reverting very, very quickly to a historical mean in terms of the way the world views the Jews. And every one of these things becomes one of the cuts that we die by a thousand of them.

And I... I don't know if I buy that. that we're in trouble, actually. You know, I was, to that point, I was just on a cruise in Alaska. This is America that's on this cruise. You know, it's regular folk of very few minorities, very few Jews as near as I could tell. And I was doing my last, my farewell show, my 45-minute adult show. And I was wondering, should I do my, you know, Jewish material?

And I know you're thinking they know you're Jewish anyway. Well, not everybody does. Some people have no familiarity with Jews. No, the servers definitely do it. And I was reluctant to do it because I'm so nervous about anti-Semitism. On the other hand, I was running out of material. So I did a joke about, you know, being Jewish. And there was a little bit of nervousness in me, but they seemed to respond well,

and I didn't get any free Palestine shouts from the audience. All right. Well, those are old people. Old people are decidedly a different cohort on this stuff. So why, you say you don't agree with me. Go ahead. Well, look, I think all that's happening is the is the return to history, like the end of the holiday from history that was the echo of the Holocaust and the Second World War. And now the focus of anti-Semitism shifts to the Jewish state, you know, had been way back when Jews. Judaism, then it became the race of the Jews, and now it's the Jewish state, I think is, I mean, it has been noted. So look, like, this is inevitable to some degree. And at the same time, you know, Israel is becoming more indispensable than it has ever been. And it is forging relationships with its neighbors across the Arab world. It is remaking the Middle East. and we're in a process of Americans sort of making sense of all this. And I think certainly to the degree that the kind of identitarian left is ascendant in the United States or elsewhere in Europe or in the Anglosphere. That's very bad for Jews.

But, you know, that seems to me more of a temporary. kind of phase or or or a moment there is a right-wingy liberalism and anti-Semitism for sure but I also see that as as as as as somewhat ephemeral so I don't know I think I think Israel will continue to grow and become more indispensable and maybe the diaspora is is hollowed out certainly in Europe and they move to Israel or they come here I think for now life for American Jews is still, for the most part, fine. But there are definitely worrisome things. I guess my bigger thought about all this is I don't think that anything unprecedented is happening.

And the big change between now and everything prior to World War II is that there is a Jewish state. And it is remarkably resilient. Well, I, you know, I'm not particularly, you know, the Holocaust or anything. like that. I don't think Jews are going to be rounded up in the United States of America, but being Jewish is no longer nothing. Right. It's a thing, as I've said for many years already, before October, so they're, they're going to try to make Afrikaners out of us, and now we are.

And it's this little pause when anybody asks you or, you know, anybody finds out that you're Jewish. They don't quite know how to react. And since the occupation, I mean, anything can turn on a dime, but the occupation is going, in my opinion, going to go on and on and on and on. And especially after the success that October 7th has been for the Palestinians on the global PR market.

Would you have anticipated this level of success? Well, actually, I, you know, I did say it in the first week, I said it's going to be, And I said it's like acid rain on, I said it's a war against, remember the first week? I said it's going to be a war, a psychological war against the Jewish people, like acid rain. That's what I said on October like 15th.

And I said we're going to see. I think it was before that actually. Yeah, yeah. So I, but having, but even though I said it, now that it's happened, I didn't in my heart really understand what I was saying. Like I didn't see it like this. So it's, so, but I did, I did understand that this was going to, remember comparing it to George Floyd, that we're going to have a worldwide defund the police reaction. And that's, that I did see coming.

But, um, well, you predicted it. You said that even before Israel stepped a foot into Gaza. Yeah, I, I, yeah, that's what I says. But, but, but, but having said that, you know, I just, I regarded it as very, very serious and a, and a, and a, huge thing in the United States of America that my children know that being Jewish is something. It's something to a lot of people. And then as the occupation continues 20 years from now, when I'll either be people in my generation, the very end of the baby boomers are gone, who grew up with their parents having lived through the Holocaust, you know, quite a gravitational force. that half-life is gone, and we've outlived the half-life where it has very little effect on anybody anymore. And then Israel just becomes this nation which is occupying these people,

and very few people are going to understand the actual truth of it as we see it. Then American Jews will have to choose between, you know, lining up with their people or abandoning their people or pretending to abandon their people in mixed company, in polite company. It's a dilemma that I see, and it worries me, you know, and forget about being a Jew in France or England, but as you're kind of, I think, saying,

they may just all leave. But what the hell is that? Jews have to leave Europe? That's huge. It is huge. I mean, look, the dilemma is already obvious in, you know, so-called progressive America, where, you know, one has, must denounce one's affinity for the Jewish state if one is to remain in the good graces of right-thinking

people. I think that in most of America, that is still not the case at all. And I think that there's still, there's right now some pushback to the sort of what has happened in progressive America, but we'll see. And you're right. I mean, to say the least, there have been some very, very troubling things that have happened. I'm reporting on something right now along these lines. And it's all very worrisome.

And at the same time, Israel is stronger than ever. And I think there's something remarkable about that. Every synagogue has security now, right? Well, they always have, though. Have they always? Yes. Well, no, when I was a kid, I mean, I've thought about this a lot. When I was a kid, you know, you go to like synagogue.

In high holidays, there was never security there. I mean, I don't know. I grew up in New York and went to synagogue here, and there was always security. Sometimes we didn't see it. But when I go to the Anshahesed on 100th Street and West End Avenue, there was no security there. Maybe they were like, you know, the air marshals.

It was like a guy with a talus, but he's really a marshal. I think you guys are wrong about that. I think that there's always been at least an invisible level of security, but I could be mistaken. I want to say something. I think that once people realize that Jews are only as safe as the state of Israel is secure, taking this sort of privileged position of denouncing Israel is really nice to be like accepted in these so-called progressive circles. but you know my favorite joke of a Zionist

and an anti-Zionist walk into a bar and the bar attendant says, we don't serve Jews here. I mean, I think that like that's what it is, right? You should probably specify an anti-Zionist Jew. I didn't understand the joke. Really? No, I like that.

That's a good joke. I'm going to use that. Thank you, Peter. You didn't understand the joke? No, but you tell me later because I don't want to, is this all you people talk about? No, no, no, one second. This is really important.

You're right, then. A Zionist and an anti-Zionist walking to a bar. And the bartender says, we don't serve Jews here. Oh, I see. I see. They're both Jews. It doesn't matter if you're a Zionist. Maybe you should say like, you're a fucking Jew, right?

You just say like Dershowitz and Bynard walk into a bar. But then you have to assume that people are, you know, learned enough that they know who both of those people are. Everybody's going to laugh at that joke is going to know those people. Dershwis is Republican. Okay, forget about Israel. Enough with Israel. Enough with Israel.

We're Americans. Who cares about Israel? And I'm, you know, I hope that we get to the bottom of this stuff. And I hope it's not, none of it is true. We have to have Peter back when I get one of these canine experts. You should join the panel. We're going to convene a dog panel to try to get to the bottom of this. Dwarman is on the job.

So, okay, so what else is going on in the world? What do you think about J.D. Vance? What's the future for the United States of America? I am not a fan of J.D. Vance, or at least of the direction that he, I think, is, was, is leading the Republican Party. I can't really make out clearly what's happening now. You know, he had his moment right after the inauguration, and there was this, obviously, this sense of triumph. but then he you know he he he he he seemed to be

playing footsie with a lot of the sort of the illiberal voices on the right the Tucker Carlson's and and his ilk and all that of course is nauseating and so now there's you know the the question is you know vance versus Rubio and you know all the

the more sort of like ecumenical minded Republicans I know are in the rubio camp I don't know. I think Vance is fascinating. My number one gripe with him is that he strikes me as an unmade or an incomplete man, a man who does not know who he's supposed to be. So I don't actually have any really serious substantive objections to a lot of his policy thinking.

Some of that I think is stupid or whatever. That's not really my job as a reporter. it's more that he seems like a man who's constantly casting about in search of an identity, whether he's anti-Trump or he's pro-Trump or he's now a Catholic or he's, you know, sort of dabbling in, you know, sort of like proto-fascism. All these things seem like profound lurches or shifts and they're worrisome. They remind me of the guy I wrote my book about Lee Harvey Oswald. Well, I, what's how go?

Why is your mind you'll leave? Because like that's an unformed man. Like you have like you like, look, Bill Clinton is similar in this respect, right? Like men especially who grow up without a father are are in a very, very difficult position, right? They don't know who they're supposed to be. And that's a very bad place to be. So the sense I get with Vance is that he's not really sure on some. primal level on some kind of like cellular level who he is. And I don't like that,

especially in a man who aspires to be president in the United States. That's interesting this. People are always psychoanalyzing everybody. We had a Tucker Carlson guy on here was analyzing Tucker Carlson. You're JD fans, everybody. What about Trump? Trump must say Trump had a father. But what fascinates me, is what the dynamic must be like, just between these three guys, Vance, Rubio, and Trump. Because by everything I can glean, these people should not be getting along. Vance leaks like a sieve to the papers.

He goes on the signal chat and he bad mouths the president's policies. Rubio wants to be president. We know that. Vance is standing in the way between him and the presidency. They both disagree. They disagree on all sorts. They disagree on Russia, on Israel. Vance is on top of leaking and all that stuff,

and Trump values loyalty more than anything, right? He's also a stiff. Trump likes to talk about grabbing pussy and stuff like that. Vance does not want to hear that stuff. You know, then Tucker Carlson, son is working for Vance or was working for Vance and like like everything about that relationship I do not understand how the three of them could sit down to dinner together like they must go back to their wives and just fucking badmouth each other like crazy yeah I'm sure and that'd be

fun to be a fly on any of those walls I mean that's politics I it doesn't it's not all that confusing I'm sure that like the internal dynamics in in most white house are pretty lurid or fascinating, colorful. Look, I mean, I profiled Usha Vance last year. I think I was the first journalist to interviewer since after Vance assumed the vice presidency. You know, the hope was that she would provide us with some kind of window into his soul.

I think that was a little bit optimistic. Turns out he doesn't have one? He might have one. But she wasn't giving you much access to it. I mean, you know, they played a game really, really well. And he wants to be president. And that means you adhere to the script. So neither he nor Ruby are going to say anything openly or that is going to be viewed as, you know, anti-Trump in any way.

Although I think now there's this, you know, Vance finds himself in this funny place with the Iran war. because his camp has clearly lost. And, you know, he's trying to, you know, I think reconcile all that. But for now, it's kind of, it's been interesting watching him try to negotiate that. I cannot imagine this man winning, let alone the Republican primaries, which I think he'll have more trouble than people think. But in a general election, unless the Democrats elect some Kamala Harris, or AOC or somebody really, really far.

Even AOC might be able to beat him. He has no charm. He has no sense of humor. He's close with Nazis and Groyper's. He doesn't stand for anything. He's not like Trump is Trump barely won, right? We've talked about this, but Trump barely won both his elections in terms of the actual number of votes, which should have had to go the other way.

And Trump is a larger-than-life figure with charm and humor and charisma and all the things, you know, people don't like him. I hate to hear this, but it's obviously true. He's been a public figure for 30, 40 years. Vance has none of Trump's gifts, not a single one. But Vance has the advantage of knowing all the money people in the party. So he's got the R&C and I think all the GOP bundler is wired. And that's a massive advantage that Rubio...

Is money that important in a president? election these days. That's an excellent question. I think it's going to be more important to Vance for the reasons that you just identified no one, which is that he doesn't have that personality that kind of transcends media coverage. So Trump can tweet something

and it's funny or caustic or whatever and it just, it cuts through the noise. Vance comes across as just kind of nasty and combative, gratuitously combative. And there's not like a, there's not like any kind of a vuncular quality. You know, like you go to the GOP convention, and there are people there who feel like a real deep,

like connection with Trump. I've never picked up on anything like that among Republicans with Vance. And so I think he's going to rely more on more traditional media or, yeah, media to reach people. And I don't know that, yeah, for that reason, I think money is going to matter a lot. But, you know, then again, there's also...

What do they buy with this money? Oh. Huh. Well, a massive air war, a ground game. I mean, all the traditional stuff. I don't know, but you're right. Like, I don't know how that plays out in 2028. I think it's interesting that both parties look to be on track right now to nominate.

There are people who look like the inevitable nominees. I have a hard time seeing how many one. But Vance wins the GOP nomination. And I have a hard time seeing, as you said, how he wins the general. Similarly, I have a hard time seeing how anyone right now, but Gavin Newsom wins the Democratic nomination, although I think I could see that changing. And at the same time, I have an impossible time seeing Newsom winning the general. You have an impossible time seeing Newsom win the general? Yeah, totally.

I didn't you say you also had an impossible time seeing Vance win the general? I think Vance has a slight edge there simply because he comes from Ohio. Look, I'm in L.A. And, you know, we're having this like very, very, you know, pyrotechnics-laden mayoral race because everything is kind of imploding in real time. I don't think that that's disconnected from Newsom and Newsom's 2028 presidential bid. I'll tell you why I think Newsom would beat Vance. is because Trump managed to, what's the like free floating electrons?

What's the, what, is it valence, whatever? I don't know, I can't remember the terms. But anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah. He pulled some Hispanics and blacks and, and, you know, Jews, like all to this, to the Republican Party. And these people are going back. Maybe the Jews might stay, but the blacks and Hispanics and a lot of people, they're snapping right back to, well actually the Jews might not if it's Vance the Jews might go back also like we don't even know who's going to be worse for the Jews if he's Nusome he's if he's grapeery then yeah yeah

you're going to leave I don't I don't we'll see what we're going to see what a mess okay last thing before you go already over time our friend Jonathan Haidt who I was a very early early early supporter of when he wrote the righteous mind he was one of one of our very first guests on the podcast. I'm a huge admirer of his. Apparently, they're protesting him at NYU. Right. He's supposed to give the commencement speech or something. Why? I don't know that. They don't want to be told that they're cuddled. Yeah. Like, what had these kids come to? Well, didn't he also told us when he was on the show the first time that he had, I think he had an American flag, bumpers or something like that, and he was getting flag for it.

Flack for the flag? You mean, way back when? Yeah, back in the back when? I mean, this guy... I don't think it's deep. I mean, I think everything codes nowadays left or right. It's also stupid, right?

So height codes right. Even though I have no idea what his politics are or how he votes. He's a lovely person. I've interviewed him a few times. I think very smart. He's not a right winger. I know his politics somewhat.

He's not a right winger. My guess is I had to. He's probably a standard kind of liberal-ish Democrat. But he codes right nowadays to, you know, the kind of young, uber, quote, progressive, close quote, you know, person who is in many respects culturally literate and, you know, semi-brained dead. So, you know, height is, he's kind of a kryptonite to those people. But, you know, then again, like so are most, you know, kind of Jewish people who like Jewish thinkers in America or writers who do not denounce Israel. So, you know, he's got, he's in good company. Do you think it has something to do with the fact that he's Jewish?

Yes. Oh, I don't know. Well, maybe. I could. I mean, has he, has he, has he, it would help him a lot if he really wants to speak at NYU. You would help him if he, like, just said something devastatingly untrue about Israel, then that would probably, you know, they'd probably be happy to have some on them. I like the fact what I said, do you think it has something to do with his being Jewish,

Peril just goes, yes, she has no idea. She's got like literally. Not the slightest idea. It's just like, yes. I didn't even know he was Jewish. You didn't know he's Jewish? What about him? What about him is Codes right?

Exactly. Oh, I mean, look, he's, he's, look, he's, uh, He's anti-woke. Yeah, he's anti-woke. That's it. I mean, like, he, he, look, things have gotten so stupid. Part of what makes it so stupid is that I think the whole idea of a left and a right are themselves, is itself kind of like, you know,

archaic. But look, here we are. And height, you know, is sort of viewed as like, quote, Republican, close quote, I think by a lot of young people who don't actually know anything about his books or who he is or what he stands for. It's just, yeah, he's anti-woke, which means in their

transphobe or whatever, even though I don't think that's true. Do you think the righteous mind? Because in the righteous mind, he kind of said we have our minds made up, and then we're just viewing everything through that lens. Was that roughly with the right? We work backwards from me. So, I mean, maybe the people on the left proceed that as saying that are, you know, that we're not, he's insulting them because he's saying, you know, you're not analyzing things. You're just, you have your opinion and nothing is going to dissuade you.

There is no way they read that book. Okay. The people who are. Right. Nothing they read books at all. I'm having trouble getting through books these days. I don't know. I fall asleep.

I check my phone. It's a tough time. It is, you know, I'm on my phone at the urinal. I mean, it's, we're all. Are you taking dick pics at the urinal? No, but I'm on my phone. People are getting hemorrhoids because they're sitting on their toilet bowls. This is true.

We should have started with this. We're all addicts. We're all addicts, and this can't be good. I just read somewhere that you really want to make a very conscientious effort not to use your phone as a digital pacifier. and I wrote that down and I don't remember who said that. You said that? That was you?

No, no, no. I do not say that, but I like that idea very much. And so like, you know, you come home and you put your phone like on the side and then just go about the rest of everything you're doing. I think I need to get off Twitter. Like I resisted being on Twitter for years and years and years and years. And I only got on it because I had some things I wanted to say about Israel. And then, but I think, you know, that's done. and I, it's a, it's done, that's done?

Well, I mean, the war is over, you know, and I don't know. It's, it's not, it's not a net positive. I heard someone call it, uh, cigarettes for the eyes. Cigarettes for the eyes. Cigarettes for the eyes. Brain. Yeah. I would like to say something about Twitter.

Yeah. You know, you had that feud with that woman. Oh yeah, Debbie Schlisselsel. Yeah. And you apologize. which... Yeah, you told me she wanted an apology.

I did feel bad. And you really, you know, you were a man of your word. And she never fucking wrote me back. Yes. I mean, it's outrageous. That's how these people are.

The Jews? You didn't follow that. You don't follow that. You don't follow my Twitter words. I call her a... A despicable hag. A despicable hag. But that's because she would attack me.

She called me a copo. She called me a this. She called me. This woman Debbie Schlossel. Who is she? I don't know who she is. She's a lawyer. It all started with this guy, Josh Hammer.

Right. And I had a huge fight with this guy because he's exactly what I don't respect. You know, he's makes nice with conspiracy theorists and all sort of, you know. I don't know. Then I stepped at the hot water with this woman, too, and she started calling me names. Anyway, this is why Twitter is a waste of time. I'm an ideas person. I want to think about ideas. Well, this is unrelated.

But when is the club open, the new room open? Four weeks? That's what I always say, four weeks. You know, it's kind of like fusion. It's four weeks away and always will be. It's like the Iran nuclear bomb. We're four weeks away from a bomb. Netanyahu's been saying it for 20 years. By the way, this, I don't know if you have to go on up, this irks me no end. It's true that Netanyahu's been saying it for a long time, as has every American president, and as Brock Obama said, he said we were like a month,

Ron was a month away from a breakout. It's not a bomb, it's a breakout. That was his reason that we had to sign the JCPOA. And it's always been true. That's why Stuxnet, like, it's not like he's been saying it for years and years, and it would happen by now if he was telling the truth. Israel has been throwing everything they can at this problem over and over and over. And then I have to say that I, as much as,

Dershowitz and Bill Crystal were, you know, against the JCPOA. I was never persuaded that the JCPOA was a bad idea. It was a terrible idea that we got ourselves in the position where we had no choice but to sign it. It was a terrible idea that we waited until they were a month away from a breakout to then finally being getting serious about negotiating a deal. But at that point in time, when the deal was on the table, our options were limited. and this did buy us sometime, even if they cheated,

it had to buy us sometime. And now, you know, are we in a worse position today? I mean, maybe you could say October 7th wouldn't have happened. I don't know. But we didn't have much choice at that time. Dershowitz is one,

he did not convince me. But anyway, so anything else? Like, if you go to a dinner party tomorrow with some people, what's the number one issue you're going to talk about politically? I mean, here in L.A., it's going to be Spencer Pratt. He's running for mayor?

For mayor. Yeah. Yeah. He's a good witch or a bad witch? Yeah. I mean, he's a better witch, I guess, than the alternative. I don't know. It's hard to say.

You know, he's identified. He's zeroed in on like the problem in L.A., which is the kind of breakdown in civilization, whether we're talking about homelessness or the fires or just the breakdown infrastructure or whatever. And at the same time, you know, he's he's an entertainer and he's full of bluster and there's a lot of bombast and his style of politicking doesn't appeal to me exactly. But, you know, is he talking about the things that people want to talk about and is he right to bring attention and energy and passion to those things? Absolutely. Yeah, this future of blue cities scares the shit out of me.

New York especially, and this whole idea of things happening gradually and then suddenly, it's like things are trickling out of New York. And then once these things reach critical mass in other parts of the country, then everybody just effortlessly that there's no friction anymore. Just tomorrow, everybody just up and leaves and goes to Florida. Everybody up and leaves and goes to Houston where, I mean, I know people like this, where they can save millions of dollars. Like millions of dollars in taxes.

You know, I just, I apologize. I just realize my battery is very low. Yeah, we have to go on overtime. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut things. This is lots of fun. I just, I don't want to get cut off. I get a black screen suddenly with me disappearing.

No, it's okay. If you disconnect, we have some, we can talk about you. No, no, we're, we're finished. We've been about an hour, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, sir. It's a pleasure to, by the way, you look much younger on camera than you're doing your Twitter picture.

Yeah, I don't like that picture. He reminds me of Dr. Drew, to be honest, a little bit. Oh, I'm not sure my life will think of that. But, I mean, it's good. Yeah, you got, you got a, you got a younger picture, right? Doesn't look, doesn't look. Yes, that's, yes, that looks like an AI version of you in like this, maybe this, maybe this video. Well, you know, we had Gerald Pawsron who looked.

very young. Maybe the video, maybe the video just makes people look like that. He's got that Zoom filter cranked. He is in L.A., you know. All right, all right, sir. Very pleased to meet you. You must get to New York from time to time. Yes, next time I'll come in and meet.

To see, check in with Barry or something. Yes, please come down to the comedy seller. I will. Thank you. Thank you. Peter Savonnik, everybody, has left the building. So long, everybody. Do you have anything else you want to talk about?

Yes, he does. What, what is it? No, I just wanted to talk. No, no, you did. You said that you want... No, I don't want to talk about that. Yeah, I talk about it. Go ahead.

No, the roast. I got a job like, you know, one day's worth of writing for the roast. Which roast? They threw me a bone. Kevin Hart roast. I don't think they threw you a bone. Like, they gave you a writing job. Nobody's going to do you a favor because, like, they want to throw you a bone.

This, Dan, I know you're confusing this with your sex life. No, I, I don't know. I think they... I actually really want to write. You're writing. Well, I don't know. Yeah, but I don't want to speak further. I'm not even sure.

There was a whole long contract that I had to sign, and I didn't read it because it was long, and I wanted the gig anyway. You're not supposed to talk about it. I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about it or not. Oh, talk about it. What could go wrong? You know, I don't know what I can say other than that,

you know, that I wrote for. Like, I don't think I can, you know, say it. Okay, so then don't say any. Were any of the jokes, yours? I don't think so, but I didn't watch it. Well, then I... How do you know? That's insane. You're insane. I watched it. I watched not the whole thing.

I didn't watch the whole thing, but I watched chunks of it. Did you write Shane Gillis' jokes about the Jews? Didn't he say so? Somebody's or something? He said something to Chelsea Hanser. He said Chelsea Hanser is a Zionist. I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing. speaking about dead babies. Oh, God. Well, I didn't write that.

Did it get a laugh? Not really. And then Chelsea... Is she a sinus? Yeah, I think so. I don't know. Is she Jewish? Yeah, she's half Jewish.

And so is Pete Davidson. I don't actually know if she's a sinus. But she... Her, what she said to Shane was, is that there's a different... between being Jewish and a Zionist, and then something about, like there's a difference between Chinatown and Korea Town, although Shane's favorite slur works in both places. Why can't you remember facts about issues like this? You have total recall.

Because this is actually interesting to me. That's incredible. If I actually remember something about anything that we talk about on this show, you have You actually have no idea. You remember both. That's a very good pro rale. I guess it's just a matter what you're interested in. Yeah, well, I'm interested in it.

He was excellent, by the way, Peter. He's great. Should we cut out the part about the dogs? No, I think that was, you know, I think it has to be discussed at this point because that's what's, you know, people are discussing. Two things can be true at once. Once, that it's horrific. Only two things? No, no, no.

No, no, no, seriously. That what you're saying is true, okay? That it's horrific. It should be investigated. And God forbid, it's true for everyone. And the other part is, is, are we supposed to turn out our pockets at every fucking insane accusation? No, but, but, um, uh, leaving the dog thing aside.

when Benny Morris and Khabiv Rattigur both believe that there's an amount of abuse going on in the Israeli prisons enough that it's worth their their time talking about it publicly then it's not a matter of turning out our pockets of the world our, the Israelis pockets of the world, or the, you feel like that it's our

because it feel like it affects all the Jews. They need to do what they're supposed to do. I agree. I 100% agree. And so the dog thing may be an insane accusation, but everything else is not, right? This has been going on for a long time already. Listen, I'm sure that there's abuse going on in all prisons,

including in American prisons. I'm sure that there are horrific things. Yeah, I've never understood this. Why is there not a video? I mean, years ago I was saying this because prison rape, I mean, years ago, I was saying that, because prison rape is a big thing in America, that sending somebody to jail, I could be convinced is cruel and unusual punishment under the Constitution, meaning like if you have a high probability of being raped in prison

and we as the authorities know that this is what's likely to happen to you when we put you in prison. Even though that's not what we're sentencing you to, I don't see how we can pretend like it's not cruel and inhuman to put somebody in a prison where this is what's known to be happening. And years ago I was saying, why should, especially now with AI, why should there be a square inch in a prison system, including the Israeli prison system that is not monitorable, not one fucking square inch, and then everything

stops, right? I, a thousand percent agree with you. Yeah. And... I mean, Foucault wrote a whole tome on this. Why are you saying that? He used Foucault and Tom in one sentence? I mean, I can't also... He wrote a whole...

Okay, I'll bite. He wrote a whole tom on what? On how corrupt the prison system is. You know, you guys, you can't be like, oh, she's so dumb. She doesn't know anything. And then I say something intelligent and then you guys make fun of me. Saying that somebody wrote a tome is not intelligent. Foucault wrote Discipline and Punish, which analyzes the evolution.

For you listening on Spotify, she's looking it up. No, I'm trying to have the systems that shifted from public torture to psychological discipline and surveillance exemplified by the prison system. So he's against the surveillance. No. So he's Jesus Christ I think he is Do you have actually

Getting back to the new room Do you actually have a date No we have to get our final inspections And once we get those We'll be able to open If we had inspection today Is it finished construction? Yeah

But basically Yes Finish construction yes There's like We're waiting for the tables And the chairs But like if You know

If I If we were legal to open on Monday Yeah What's today? What was that? Monday But if we were legal to open next Friday, a week for Friday, I would fucking get open on Friday because it costs a fortune to be closed. Are you excited?

How long does it take to get the staff ready and trained and hired? I don't know. But my point is like, if we could open, we're going to get open. Are you excited? Well, I'm not excited because I have this recurring dream that I die before. Stop it. See, this is, this is, I'm just being honest. I've been having this recurring dream that I'm going to do.

die before the club opens. It's like a Henry short story. Are you serious? What do you mean a recurring dream? How many times have you had it? Three times. What does that mean? Did you look it up? It certainly if I looked it up and it said that I'm actually going to die. Well, it's not going to say.

You look up everything on chat GPT. You didn't look up. I mean, there's a meat like there's a. Oh yes. We've cracked the code on dreams. We know exactly what they mean. What does it mean? It means that I'm nervous about the club opening up. It's an anxiety dream.

I have a recurring dream that I'm late for my set here at the comedy cellar. You have a recrary? I can't get a cab and I'm like, oh my God, I forgot. I have a, oh, shit, I have a 12 o'clock spot. It's always like in the middle of the night. The spot's always like three in the morning, four in the morning, which we don't even have here. But that's a recurring. Do you still have dreams about like, you know, you didn't study for an exam?

Yeah, I have those. Still. Yeah, yeah. Still, that's amazing. I have one of those that I didn't complete. my astronomy course in college. And so I didn't, I couldn't actually graduate. Yeah.

These are common dreams, but I stopped. I used to have them for many years, but I stopped having them. But what do they mean? They're all anxiety dreams. What else could they mean? We should get a dream person on. What's your list of things a dream could mean? What could it mean?

I don't know. I don't know anything about dreams. But what could it possibly mean? What am I like, it means that you have heartburn? What is it mean? What does it mean if I'm sucking a guy's cock? It's anxiety, Dan.

Yeah, it's just anxiety, right? My wife says most of her dreams are sexual. Really? Yeah, and I do not ask her in the next logical question. I just assumed you meant me, honey. Anyway, anything else? All right, that's it for me. So you think it's okay to talk about what we talked about?

I think so, yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, if you're, if you're looking for an honest discussion, but, you know, you just don't want to give meat to the, you know, to the, to the, to the, to the, um, Jew haters, you know. It doesn't matter. Whatever you say, they're going to write the same thing in the comments. No, I'm not worried about the comments. I'm worried about actual, like, you know, my thing about Tesla.

I finally said it. I finally did say it, right? The waitress? The car. She's a bartender. The full self-driving? No, I don't know what. I didn't say it on this show.

You might have, I don't know. Tell us. For a long time, I had an observation about this full self-driving, but I didn't make it on the air because I didn't want to be responsible for the possible repercussions. and the observation was that full self-driving, the Tesla auto drive, it speeds like crazy. Oh, yeah, we talked about that.

You said nobody would buy it if it didn't speed. Right, I was saying like it's like people hate Elon Musk so much. It would be the most natural thing in the world to say, well, if you have a new technology that drives, of course it has to obey the rules of the road. You can't have a full self-driving that speeds. And so you'd think some smart-ass congressman would propose legislation requiring full self-driving to obey the rules of the road.

But then, of course, nobody would use full self-driving anymore. It would kill the auto drive because nobody wants to go, you know, 15 miles an hour. You know, like this word people want to go to speed of traffic. And in the middle of the night, it's just absurd, right? So I had this observation like a year and a half ago. I didn't want to say it out loud because I wanted somebody to listen to it. And I'd be responsible for the death of full self-driving. and I love full self-driving, especially now, it really works.

So somehow, this is finally I relented, but this is, this is like, I don't want to be responsible for any thing for bolstering anybody's argument against Israel. But they have to, they just got to handle this thing head on. Like, you know, if it's not true, which it's most likely, overwhelmingly likely, not true, then they should do something to show that it's not true. If it's possible, I don't know. And if it's not true. I don't know if it's possible to prove it.

It's hard to prove that it's not true. And nobody believes anything anyway once they're convinced, you know, but I want to know. Okay. So if it's, if they're, for whatever, let's say it comes out, a preponderance of evidence, it's not true. It's been completely, like, across the board, it's not true. do you think that Christoph is going to write another piece? No, based on a proponentive evidence.

No, no, I mean, but whatever proof. I don't know. I think Foucault had a tome about it. And, um... Oh my God, I'm late. Okay. Late for what? The meeting downstairs.

All right. I'm going to go home. Dan, you anything else want to say? That's it for me. Steven? Good. All right. Okay.

Good night, everybody. Good night. Oh. That's great.