The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Live from the Table: BONUS EPISODE #9 with Dov Davidoff

Episode Date: August 25, 2020

Live from the Table: BONUS EPISODE #9 with Dov Davidoff

Yeah, yeah. All right, do that again because we're recording. I'm ready. Okay. This is Live from the Table, the bonus episode. Coming at you on the Riotcast podcast. Never come Dan Natterman. We got Perry L. Ashenbrand with us tonight, as always, and Dev David Hoff.

We're actually moving to an all-classic rock format on the podcast. We're going to start things off with Chicago, If You Leave Me Now from 1977. And Peter Theriot was in rare form. Of course, I'm kidding. We are not switching to an all classic rock form. Although I would very much like to. All classic rock

podcast. That's great. I'm not sure that that's even Classic Rock necessarily, but we have 88 degrees here in New York City. Probably cloudy skies. And traffic and weather coming at you on the ones.

Anyway, I'm just ran out. What are the calls on? It's amazing. You have an amazing, he has an amazing voice for this. I agree. It's amazing. You have an amazing, he has an amazing voice for this. I agree. It's fairly basic. You just give the weather.

You talk about the BQE a little bit, and you got a radio show. Say something about the BQE. As an accident on the BQE, we got traffic backed up all the way to the Bruckner. We'll be slow moving through rush hour. Traffic will be normal on the Major Deegan and the side crossings. Anyhow, so

we are still in lockdown and the summer is coming to a close. So one wonders what things are going to be like. Ariel, you're in a new room with a lot of light. That's so funny. That's what Dan just said. I am in a new room. I moved.

Oh, you did? Yeah. I mean, also to a temporary, temporarily seeking shelter from the pandemic. Yeah, sure. Do you have any idea of how long you're going to be in your present spot? I mean, until, until there's... No further guidance from the city and all of that? Yeah, I mean, until there's a comedy world,

until there's school, until there's, you know, until I can function. Do your kids go back to school in September or late August? My kid is doing remote learning. From all of my friends and the people I'm speaking to, it seems like 50-50. 50% of them are sending their kids. Although I just read something that a private school in the West Village

opened and now they had to close down for two weeks because two people tested positive yeah would you feel comfortable sending sending your kids even if even if that were a reasonable option it is an option we could choose for his school and i'm not sending him right i don't i mean i don't think they're going to be open very long anyway like I think I was talking to somebody I know in Sweden there's I mean you know you can read this anywhere

but their schools are open and they've been open their bars and restaurants have been open they're not wearing masks and the only thing that's closed are theaters movie theaters and theaters in general and yeah I mean do we have And the only thing that's closed are theaters, movie theaters and theaters in general. And yeah, I mean, you know, do we have not do we have but do we know what the outcome of the herd immunity program in Sweden has been? Are there that many more people that have a higher death per capita death toll than a lot?

Is it that much higher? I don't know. It's that much higher. And it's lower than other countries. It's higher than some, it's lower than others. Well, if it's lower than some and higher than others and it puts it in some relatively moderate range relative to other countries, then wouldn't you be better off? I mean, if that's the...

Yeah, I don't know. It's like, what are we waiting for? Are we waiting for a vaccine? And tell us we're waiting for a vaccine. It's like, it are we waiting for? We're waiting for a vaccine and let it tell us we're waiting for a vaccine. It's like, it seems unclear to me what we're waiting for. They're not really telling us what exactly are we waiting for? Are we waiting for a vaccine? Because if there's no vaccine, yeah. When there's going to be an increase in cases, when you send kids to school, you know, right.

The kids probably won't have a severe case and they'll probably, you know, recover just fine, but yeah, they're going to get it. Some of them. So I don't know what we're, what we're waiting on, by the way. I want to talk to you about. Wait, I'm looking at this. I can send it to both of you and you can screen share it, but I'm looking at the numbers in Sweden right now. And they seem to be on like

this. On its way up? Cases are up. Hang on, I'm going to send it to you guys. We don't need to. I don't know how to screen share anyway. That's more of Noam's expertise. He loves to screen share.

And of course, we don't know what the deaths are. Right. I mean, you know, and also we don't know what the outcome is economically in this country as it relates to unemployment, suicide, depression, all of the externalities of closing up. And so it'll be fascinating in a year or two from now to look back and see whether or not Sweden fares any better than other countries who did shut down. But I guess that's neither here nor there since we don't really know. I just didn't know if Sweden was a calamitous situation right now or if they seem to

be operating not much worse than other countries who did shut down. And they also, they are social distancing. I mean, people are more likely to stay home in Sweden, but it's all voluntary. You can go to a restaurant, you can go to a store and the kids are going to school. Yeah, I don't see with America, because I just ordered this book and they're talking about how the notion of American individualism as it relates to countries where people listen.

We aren't that well. Our culture is less organizationally. Our culture doesn't lend itself towards everybody following the rules. And so we see what's going on mask-wise. I mean, the other offshoot

of that in terms of productivity is like, you know, product innovation and things like that. Americans are very good at, but we can't seem to, to make it, make it happen in a group sense. Although we haven't had tremendous guidance from government. I definitely think we're more individualistic. We don't, I don't think we have much sense of we're all in this together. I think that's one of the reasons why universal healthcare care is not really, you know, is a controversial idea here because we don't really believe in helping each other. We don't feel united.

We need an Asian discipline. An Asian discipline is what we need. I think to have Asian discipline, you need Asian people. Yes, that's the problem. It would be a good start anyway. And we don't have enough of those. Well, you know, the Germans are the Asians of Europe. And they seem to be doing that.

They seem to be capable of all marching in lockstep, for better and for worse, of course. We understand that certain historical drawbacks to everybody listening to one guy. I don't understand how wearing a mask becomes my freedom is being infringed upon. Americans are a

funny crew, aren't they? Do you think that this would have been the case, Perrielle, if we weren't already divided? Do you think that the notion that a lot of people politicize wearing a mask is cumulatively worse because we were so divided when it all began?

Probably. I think so. Probably. It's idiotic. It's like you wear a seatbelt, right? Like you wear fucking shoes. That's exactly right. I think that's true. I think that people

are just looking at reasons to pick a fight you know when you're when you don't get along with somebody anything they say is annoying to you and and you want to want to uh snap back yeah yeah and the seat belt you know i mean it's almost a good premise for a joke but it's potentially but the um the notion of a seat belt has not become politicized. We all agree that you're more likely to survive a car accident with seatbelt. And if that's the case with masks, yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, if nobody's politicizing seatbelts as, and it becoming a cause celeb for, you know, um, what clawing freedoms from people, then why would you,

why would you suddenly politicize in a major way the notion that a mask is probably helpful? Part of it is that, you know, you can't see the COVID virus and it's a little bit... And the truth is, I sent you something from the CDC, Perriel, this week where the CDC says masks might be helpful. Even the CDC doesn't go as far as to say masks are definitely helpful. The CDC said masks might be helpful.

Well, but isn't that the same, the same. Seatbelt, everybody, nobody's saying a seatbelt might help you. Everybody's. Well, but yeah, but although that is true as well, right? I mean, as, as a premise, I mean, there are people that were thrown from cars who, who ended up being okay because they weren't wearing their seatbelt, though they are the exception. But you can make an argument that in theory, you could be safer without a seatbelt,

just statistically you're not. I don't know. Well, maybe. I'm trying to find some. Yeah, I mean, if the seatbelt laws were new and they were brought up by Democrats, maybe there would be a backlash today because everybody's looking to pick a fight. So I don't know. Speaking of picking a fight, I want to talk about James Altucher's article. He was on the show with us, with me and Noam.

And I don't know if you know that Seinfeld response, James Altucher, just to review, he's part owner of Stand Up New York Comedy Club, wrote an article called New York is Dead and It's Not Coming Back or something like that. New York City is Dead Forever. Okay, New York City is Dead Forever. Whatever it was, that's the theme of the article, is that this pandemic is going to basically destroy New York City, in part because people are getting used to working at home and they're getting used to remote work. Thank you. and they're getting used to remote work.

Meaning, because of what he was saying? Because of what he was saying, and he was basically lambasting James for having left the city and gone to Florida, and said, basically, stay in Florida, we don't need you, we're going to continue without you, the city's going to be great. Right. And Zoom cannot possibly take the place of human contact. Right. So, in addition to making what I thought were some valid points, he, he, he took a few shots at James. And he also said the stand of New York could use some sprucing up as a club.

Right. Well, there's no, there's no arguing, although I haven't been there in a while, but you know, most comedy clubs, I mean, if you're trying to make an argument, they could use a light sprucing up. It's not a tough argument to make. Yeah. The only comedy club that really was on point aesthetically was comics which closed down about eight years ago yeah and never caught on in the first place

seemingly yeah with all of its with all of its glory i mean it really was a beautiful club it's a beautiful club but do you perry do you ever had comics no i i've not i was not at comics but the beautiful club they put a lot of money into it yeah and the owners would would tell us they would come yeah i remember the owner saying we spared no expense we put money to the club we're gonna have good food we're gonna treat the comics right and we're nodding our heads thinking we don't want to tell them the truth which is that this is not a recipe for success the comedy business we're like oh sounds great because the comedy business is not about that it's about keeping expenses low and nobody's

paying a premium for a nice beautiful room you know the hole in the wall by nature why i think it's the informal nature of the art form you know it's it's it's a little dirty it's a little gritty yeah you know it's not a big beautiful room that you know and and and if you're paying all that money and the only other comparison i can think of would be a room like caroline's or something right i mean there aren't too many clubs that were in anywhere in the country that were as polished as comics. But, you know, the other thing about it, Perry, it was a meatpacking

district in an area where it was sort of catty-cornered to where the Apple Store is now. And it was a pretty, you know, sort of she-she. it just didn't fit. It's a funny thing about what makes a business work or not work. It just didn't. Yeah. Well, there is something low about comedy.

There's something, what about comedy? No, there's something about comedy that it should be done in a basement at night. You're doing the, there's something you're offending something because there were other art forms. You go in an opera you know chandeliers and a thing you walk in a room with a chandelier you go you do comedy comedy is sort of just meant as it's like an underground kind of a thing by nature you know but when most of the specials are taped in these sort of

beautiful rooms yeah which is that's true but but specials are taped in these sort of beautiful rooms. Yeah, that's true. But specials are, it's a different experience watching something on television. So a big black theater doesn't become, doesn't distance you from the ability to appreciate it. For some reason, I don't know why, but comedy does feel like it should be done in a speakeasy. Like somebody where they sold,

they used to make bathtub gin, you know, and then they put a mic on it. Yeah. Yeah. So you got to keep expenses down, you know, and you're not gaining anything by paying more money for rent and more money for fit out.

So if you're not gaining anything, you're losing because your expenses are high. So it's really just about the vibe of the room. Vibe is incredibly important in comedy. And I think more than a lot of, I think the success of a comedy business would be more contingent and connected to the vibe variable than most businesses.

I don't know why, but. And also the Meatpacking District, like you said, was kind of a cool neighborhood where people went clubbing. It's like you're going to Pastis, or you're going around the corner to a nightclub where they have bottle service. Comedy is a grittier

sort of... I don't know. Yeah. We don't have to search for too many adjectives. Anyway, that... Wait wait I want to tell you something though so Stand Up New York responded

via Instagram they said Jerry we're able to multitask we are sprucing up the club see we just

stained our tables we're also currently the biggest live comedy producer in the country. 40 plus shows per week in parks across New York City. You should swing by and do a set sometime.

Oh, we just walked by your garage on the Upper West Side where you house your Porsche collection and picked up some garbage we found in front of it. Heard you were in the Hamptons. See you at the club. Well, you know,

I would have preferred they said, you know, like, hey, nobody cares what you have to say. What you have to say. You know, I don't know if you heard, but Seinfeld ended 20 years ago. Shut up. Shut up. Shut your mouth.

Which would have been more satisfying. But anyway. But I liked it. Did you think, I read Jerry's piece in the time. Yeah, but I thought it was nice to hear someone defending New York. The human nature is that we all, is the notion of that pendulum, right? It seems like an inescapable response to that which is negative or positive. Any kind of black swan, major earth-shattering experience, whether it's 9-11. 9-11,

I don't know if the banking crisis would fit there, but even when that guy lit his shoe on fire on the airplane, the shoe bomb never went off. And no one since has been able,

nobody before or since, there's been one person in the history of the world who tried to light a shoe bomb. And now everybody all over the fucking world has got to take their shoe off when they walk through security. I think it's just connected to the notion that New York will be back.

It's, you know, I mean, Paris went through the plague, for God's sake. I remember walking, were you there, Dan, in Paris? Did you go in the tombs where they have all the bones stacked on one another? No, I didn't check out the tombs. Incredible. But, hey, you know, half the city was dying in a plague. It came back, baby. You know, James's basic point, I think the cornerstone

of his argument was that that there is a major change is that people are used to and able to work from home.

And Seinfeld's point was that working from home is no substitute for being together, for the dynamism and the energy of being in the presence of each other. I think that's valid.

But I do think, well, we've talked about this, Doug. There will be a change. Commercial real estate will be affected. There will be less office. Well, you're 100% right. But it's not over for us. It's not. It's not over.

And here's what's at least my thesis. And I bet on my thesis. I'm not just talking from an armchair. I've put some money into a commercial REIT. The point being, human nature is such that people will go back to malls, not everywhere. A lot of them will go out of business, a lot of individual places, but we will still gather in central entertainment zones. Office buildings will be repriced. They're not going to be, maybe, you know, maybe, maybe there are more creative elements that will come to New York

that otherwise couldn't have afforded to do so. And I don't know. I mean, that's the history of New York and the village and in Soho. Of course. What I'm surprised at is how personally everybody seemed to take it. It's one thing to disagree with James. James said, okay, I think New York is dying and it's going to stay dead. Right. It's one thing to say, actually, I disagree. And here's why. It's another thing to be like, you're a putz. Fuck you. Right. Right.

Right. Shit. Yeah. Shit. You know, why is everybody taking it personally? Nobody takes it personally when we say that climate change is going to devastate the planet. We say,

yes, it is if we don't act or some people don't think it's the case. Generally speaking, when people predict catastrophe, people predict

another four years of Trump and we're facing existential crisis, say many people. That is, the very existence of America is in jeopardy. Right. That's a dire prediction. But I don't get angry at those people. I simply say, actually, I don't think so.

Here's why. Why the fury and this kind of... You know why I think... I'm a new yorker and fuck you in new york and we're not going to fuck you and it's new york you know why that reaction well i think science is very calm actually i think that zoom will not replace offices and there's still reasons to live in it but why why why that kind of response yeah no that would seem like the more appropriate calm sort of just deconstruct the argument or make your own argument but it's like um i think people are very emotional right now for one and then for two there is a bit of this kind

of um you know if you're gonna walk out and give up on it then fuck you vibe or not or you know because it's it's in a i don't know when something's in a difficult place then the the notion of rallying around that which has been wounded um is that much more important and that's an emotional experience and so new york city is not you're not just examining or underwriting a company as a function of whether or not you're going to buy a stock. It's alive in that sense. It's like you're watching something go down and you can stay and support it and fight for it on some level, I guess. I think that's what... We want some glimmers of hope right now, I think. We need to see, you know, we're going to get through this. It's going to be... But he's not saying that the world is doomed.

He's saying New York is doomed. So in aggregate, I don't agree. And I said to him why on a previous podcast. But look, things change. You know, cities rise, they fall. New York will die someday. Yeah, well, you know, the sun will roll up someday. Pardon?

I say the sun. The sun is going to roll off someday. The question is, the question is, and things might change. New York might not all be in Philadelphia was once the biggest city in America. It's not anymore. New York may decline at some point. Yeah. You know, that's things. That's how things work. I don't think it's imminent, but I don't,

anything to take personally either. Right, but also the notion that, you know, even if some of the economic dynamism dies down in urban centers by the way of... Or losing love. Well, you know, maybe different types of, you know... What's that? No, your sound was bad for a second, yeah.

So you're saying urban dynamism. Well, yeah, no, the notion of all of that, all of these economic drivers, you know, it's that kind of calamity that brings about change is not necessarily a long-term net negative for a city. I mean, things, you know, things consolidate and then they expand depending on what the underlying forces at play are. I mean, I remember going to Soho when I was a kid and it was just a warehouse district. And then there was like Andy Warhol. I mean, you know, he was there before my time.

But when you heard about these people, and then Soho became sort of an interesting, artsy place where people didn't need a ton of dough and could live in lofts in a relatively dangerous area that was vacant at night. And it's since turned into this relatively corporate kind of flagship stores. It's's you know i i don't know maybe new york gets repriced i mean it's gonna ding me as a landlord but but um aside from

the profit perspective there are aspects that could become more dynamic or attractive? I don't know. I think for creative people, especially comedians, I mean, New York is the heart and soul in so many ways of what we do. And so the thought that it's dead forever

is devastating. Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I'm, I think that's why people are reacting. It would be, but it would be, but it seems to me because I so do not believe it. Right. I was not upset by it. Right.

You know, generally speaking, you don't get upset by things unless you think there's some, you know, grain of truth in it. Listen, everybody that ran to the suburbs to escape this COVID, there's going to be a vaccine at some point. It's not going to be 100% effective, but it'll be effective enough to get people get back to mitigate a lot of fear and anxiety. They're going to get so bored in the suburbs. Listen, believe me, at some point they'll be back, sniffing in the suburbs. Listen, believe me. At some point, they'll be back sniffing around the city.

You know, again, things get repriced. Come on. How long? I mean, look, if you have kids, that's a different story. If you have kids... No, I think that, you know, I'm desperate to get back into the city. Well, you are. No, you are. I was just thinking of people with children that

have corporate jobs and then can work from home and weren't in love with New York to begin with. They were there because their salary was there and they couldn't commute for two hours a day. I think those people will stay in Connecticut. Yeah, yeah. But I think that will leave room for other people to come in that want to be in New York for New York.

Yeah. So I don't know. I mean... I think the other thing was, is that Jerry was giving James, like, oh, well, you're in Florida. And then it was like, yeah, you're in the fucking Hamptons. So, what do you, you know... Right, yeah.

Jerry was a little bit harsh, I thought. And especially because he is this billionaire. You know, one should be a little bit, you know, he's the man with all the power, and it's being a little bit of a bully, I think. Yeah. Somebody who is far less lower on the totem pole. Right.

And they call him a putz in a major publication and basically, you know, tell him to go to Florida and he insulted Florida too, you know, which I don't, doesn't bother me necessarily, but, but basically he said Florida was, you know, I mean, I forgot how he phrased it, but you know, it was a creative dead zone basically. And, you know, it's fitting punishment for James to have to be there for, for, for, for, you know, a long time to come. Again,

taking James' words very personally. You don't agree with him, you don't agree with him. Although they do say that... The Mayans said we're all going to be dead by the end of the year, but nobody's blowing up against the Mayans and saying, you putzes. Also, one could argue that...

People predict doom sometimes. I don't think it's a reason to Snap at them Now if you don't like James for other reasons Okay well then talk about that Maybe you don't think his club is Could use some sprucing up Okay fine You don't like his hair

I get it He probably could use a haircut I got mine cut as you can see Yeah yeah Dan looks good You don't like his hair? I get it. He probably could use a haircut. Sure. I got mine cut, as you can see. Yeah, yeah. Dan looks good. Perrielle, you see Dan's hair? He looks good with a haircut. That's why I harass him, so that he looks good with it. He does look good with it, but I also like that long, shaggy... Some people like it, you know. Now, we were in lockdown, Dove,

so that, you know, at least for the first couple of months, I wasn't able to get a haircut. That's right. No, on full lockdown, yes. We were on full lockdown. Now, laundromats were open, so I have no excuse for my underwear. That was a joke I used to tell during

Zoom shows earlier in the pandemic. You know, it always did okay. It never annihilated. By the way, are these outdoor shows picking up steam? Are they becoming... I just did one in the park, in Central Park, in Sheep Meadow. I think they call it that because I believe sheep used to graze there.

But the sheep are gone now, but comedy is taking place. It's by a big oak tree, you know, near Tavern on the Green on the west side of Sheep Meadow. And yeah, just people sitting on the grass in a semicircle. How many people can, because you're not amplified, right?

Actually, the last time I did it, there was a mic with a little handheld speaker. Very, very, obviously, not particularly powerful. Yeah. It helped a little bit. Maybe 40. Like the situation we saw the rabbi in, in the park? Yeah, maybe like the rabbi guy.

So it helped a bit. And maybe 40 people, and they were enjoying it. They really were. I feel a little self-conscious because there's other people and they were enjoying it. They really were. I feel a little self-conscious because there's other people that aren't there for the show. Yeah. And when people aren't there for a show and like an idiot, it's very distracting.

It happens that same experience, that same feeling happens. Like if you work in a club that that's, it's not, you ever work with club that was really supposed to be like a retail strip and there's a window in front and so they'll put a they try to block the window but every now and then you can see people peering in you know it's it's also sometimes you do a corporate gig so corporate gigs are often like when you perform for a company's annual whatever they're in a hotel

they're like the chesapeake room you know the the wind jam the wind jammer room whatever they're in a hotel they're like the chesapeake room you know the the the wind jam the wind jammer room whatever they call it so you're in these rooms and it's it's and and people are opening the door and hotel guests are just walking by yeah and they can hear you and you know doing your shtick and it's just i just feel self-conscious doing doing my even worse if the gig's not going well, because then it's that much more pronounced and those corporate humps, you know. They don't understand that in comedy, a lot of it's, you know, the psychological,

the need to be in proximity to one another in order to appreciate it. I did a corporate, I mean, you've done a lot more than me, but they put 30 people in a room that seats, you know, 700 and you, I, it's, it's a horrible feeling. There's something about all that space.

You feel swallowed up by it. I'd rather work for 10,000 people. It's far less anxiety. Anyway. Yeah. Well, the corporate gigs, you know,

that's, it's, it's for the money. They pay well. And, and, and you, they don't understand. And people that are interested in comedy, it's for the money they pay well and and and you are they don't understand and

people that are interested in comedy it's an interesting consideration psychologically because what is it about you know that it's it's the contagious nature of laughter that is served by ergonomics and proximity and if you don't have that the whole experience becomes swallowed up you know it really impacts it i mean it's it's profound the impact you have to start saying like you you can't have a room like you have to have rooms that are two capacity you can't have you can't book for a corporate gig in a 700 person you don't you don't always have a you don't always have an option and so you can't really when they're paying you to come to a gig they're just like you know you get an agent that says if you said to your agent you know look can you make sure that they're in a

room that it's it's just uh you can do the best you can but you have to do the best you can you have to accept the fact that they're not running a comedy club and they they don't do this uh every day so they don't really know how to make it they don't know and they don't necessarily care you know then so you know if if the show doesn't go great okay then they have the golf tournament the next day i mean they they have different activities okay well you know we'll also have a singer we booked a singer too so the comedy show doesn't go well hopefully they'll enjoy the singer intensely that experience i wonder if there are any other lines of work where people experience you know that level of when something is going badly in like a corporate scenario,

that gig I did in the Seychelles for that Arab. I, I, did I tell you Perry? I went to the Seychelles about 900 miles off the coast of Somalia. Yeah. It's far away off of Africa. And so, yeah, they flew, they flew us out for one show and I got to the resort. I get in the room. It's, it's these, a couple of very wealthy Arab guys and then nine,

about 19 hookers. And then like five homosexuals that sort of tend to the prostitutes. And English was none of them. I don't think most of the people didn't have English as their first language. So you've got... Well, they were escorts. I don't want to say hooker, but they were professional.

They were so professional. They were very professional women. These are professionals, you understand. This is not your garden variety. And they threw all the women in from South Africa. Okay.

Can you backtrack here for a second? First of all, who was in charge here? There was one guy who was like, I have money to burn and I've got six hookers and I want Doug to go. Oh, no. Nobody says hooker. Nobody says. Buter, nobody says. But it's just sort of understood that this is a private affair,

and they have this, they build this room at a resort, and it's a performance space, and they fly these people in. And they don't stay and mix with everybody in the resort. They have their own piece of it. It's, you know, the guy flies himself in a helicopter. You have their own piece of it. It's, the guy flies himself in a helicopter. You know, it's like, it was a real James Bond kind of thing.

And how did you get there? Were you in a private plane? Oh, no, I wasn't. No, no, no. They, this, the, he was, I think, you know, a billionaire, but not like an American billionaire that, you know, you're still an American person.

I would imagine if you grew up in Saudi Arabia and you were of that ilk, entertainment for you is like, it's like, you know, when somebody brings a camel in the room and the camel does some tricks and then they bring the camel out of the room. In America, you're like, you're a bit of a little mini star in the room and people want to talk to you if you were funny. And here he's like, you know, okay, good, good boy. Nice, nice. And then they just sort of move you along.

He didn't care how funny you were or what you did. He's not impressed by television. Nobody that flies themselves in on a chopper and hangs out with 19 hookers is impressed by showbiz people um you know they run shit they run things these people and so he knew how to behave this is a real man you understand how did you get this gig he this guy watched the whole show with his own bottle service in a room that he built without with only 25 people in a room that seats 300. I mean, it was absurd.

It was absurd. You said, how did you get there? Your manager called? Or your agent called? Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, an agent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, how?

Like, why? Like, specifically you, I'm imagining. Like, this guy? Well, I don't know who chose me. These people on islands, you know, it was like a villain from a James Bond movie. They have a Dutch handler. And so I don't interface with the guy who owns the operation much. There was a good looking Dutchman on a motorcycle and he would organize the affair, you know, and then... How much time did you do? Like, are you up there? About 25 minutes, about 25 minutes. And it was, it was fine. They were polite people, but challenging. And sort of, you could tell, like, the women that were there,

it was like, you could just feel that they were sort of hired to be there. It was fucking bananas. You would think a guy like that might send one to your room after. Well, that's what I was thinking. I was thinking maybe the guy goes, hey, I thought you were really funny. You know, I'm not with all these broads. You know, you come backstage with us, have a drink. He sent me out of there like a dancing camel.

I did my dance, and they picked me all right and then moving on and then they uh after they he entertainment to him you could just see it it was like a 500 year old you know a bedouin leader in a tent like the king and you know chop chop and then he's eating he's you know the guy's got a gold and he's got his chest open and he's eating. He's, you know, the guy's got a gold and he's got his chest open and he's eating. He's come in, entertained. Good, good boy. Moving on. Nothing.

He gave me nothing, this guy. And he liked me and he treated me like a dog. Treated me like a dog and was a fan. You can only imagine if this guy didn't like the entertainment. You know, listen.

That's a long ass flight yeah for 25 minutes of work it was like you go all the way to the Seychelles all the way to Seychelles the Seychelles is like in the middle of fucking nowhere I mean

it's like a 24 hour flight isn't it yeah it takes about yeah it takes in the neighborhood of yeah 20 hours to get there something like that I believe it's the Indian Ocean I think it's the

oldest the oldest island chain in the world does that make sense in terms of age I mean geologically I mean geologically yeah I mean, theologically? Theologically, yeah.

It's a fascinating place that nobody ever brings up. I thought the same shit. I didn't know what it was. Not a lot of new islands, you know. I realize that when I said it, oldest island, how do you determine that but I believe

but maybe it's like 2 billion years old and the other islands are a billion I mean I don't know but anyway what were some of the other topics I had sent you for this week I don't know if you wanted to talk a bit about Jeff Ross.

Oh, yeah. Dov, what's your sense? Do you want to broach that? Well, you know, I mean, I try to stay out of the Twitter sphere for now in my life. You know, my mother suggested that I may need meds because I am in, I, I, I don't know. I mean, it was a, you know, offhanded suggestion in terms of just being generally easily aggravated by things, you know, and then, and you know,

so the Jeff Ross that I've been trying to stay away from all of this stuff, the stimulus stimulus stimuli. I don't know with Ross. It was one person, right? Just to summarize. First the audience, because maybe not everybody knows. Ross is a comic.

You may know him. He's the Roastmaster General. Roastmaster. He runs the post office and he roasts comedically as well. He's the roast master. He's been accused by a woman who's now in her 30s. She said that they had sex when he was 33 and she was 15, which is, needless to say,

below the legal age of consent everywhere in America. So that is her accusation. It is an accusation that you know she has no direct evidence for it but she has a lot of circumstantial evidence for it so I'll leave it at that well but now what is the consideration

is whether or not he deserves to be cancelled the consideration I guess is I mean as is the case every time this comes up because it comes up not he deserves to be canceled. The consideration, I guess, is I mean, as is the case every time this comes up, because it comes up. We came up with several other people. You have a guy accused of something.

We're not in a court of law, but people are entitled to make their own decisions. But, you know, you get this Twitter momentum going and calls for cancellation, if you will. What was the tenor of the affair? Was she, did she feel violated?

Is she talking about like, what was her? Just to summarize. Yeah. She went after him by her own account at that time. She was very, very attracted to him. And she came on. Well, stop right there. We need to explain. That variable needs science.

And we've got to explain. Anyway. This is very unusual. Yeah. I mean, this is. So let me finish my summary, Perio. Okay. So she came on to him he said

are you sure she said yes they had an affair it went on this is according all according to her for several years from the time she was 15 off and on till i think she was in her early 20s um and then at some point in later years she decided that um she wanted to that she was manipulated mistreated and that that he needs jeff needs to be punished so she went online and at first nobody really was listening to her but the story eventually made it to an article in vulture.com and it became a big story and so here we are did she did she describe describe did she give an example of the types of manipulation that went on or that she perceived as having

gone on no but legally it's you know you don't need to I understand well she says that her father encouraged her

to... Yes, by all accounts, the father was okay with it. More than okay. I mean, I'm not saying... The question is, assuming the accusations are true, nobody can say that it was

a criminal act. The question is, what exactly is the – the minute you – and I tried on Twitter to have conversations with people. You can't do it. You can't do it. The minute you say, well, let's examine – not to say that he didn't do wrong. He did do wrong. There's no nuance. I tried.

Let's try to ascertain the degree of immorality. There is a big difference. Nobody wants to even have a discussion. Nobody wants to have that discussion. Oh, you're defending a rapist. No, I didn't say that. I said that there's degrees of immorality, and let's try to determine where this fits in.

The age of consent in Nigeria is 11. Unfortunately, Jeff has not been active in that part of the world. And so he's been forced to meet his people here. And so now we have to deal with these Western, these pesky Western. Neil Brennan got called out. Neil Brennan on his podcast said, well, they had a relationship. So he felt that that was mitigating. In other words, it wasn't...

Well, it is mitigating relative to raping somebody in an alley. I mean, there are great gradations of offense. So nobody can argue that there's impropriety, but you must ascertain the degree of said impropriety. If you're going to levy a goddamn judgment or at least a punishment, you can judge all you want. But we've got to get clear on some of this because there's a massive difference between the relationship between Woody Allen and Mia Farrow and not Mia Farrow.

Dan, you know, in, in, in, in Manhattan. Muriel Hemingway. Yeah. And so there's that relationship where you don't feel as though he was really in violation. I understand. I mean, she was 17 in the film but assuming she were two years younger yes if I were her father I'd want to you'd want to put somebody in prison or kill her but yes not all violations

are equal and so there needs to be some nuance in the discussion you didn't argue that it's not necessarily wrong because inevitably there can be some form of manipulation when you're dealing with a 15 year old, but you know, right. And even bring that up, even have a discussion,

even a discussion where you might be wrong. Maybe Neil's wrong. Maybe Neil was wrong when he said it. So the fact that they were in a relationship makes it better. We're doing the same thing around race. When Neil said that, you know, Twitter went to work. Of course.

He was defending pedophilia. Right. You know, at least some people. I don't know how many people said it, but some people said it. And, you know, and I chimed in to defend Neil, and then I was taken to task by... You can't have an intellectually dynamic, curious experience in a public setting.

I mean, you can't question... How are we, I guess as a group, supposed to conduct inquiry and create opinions that are informed if all we are allowed to do is communicate with other people in our echo chamber otherwise we'll be punished for any thought we have outside of whatever but twitter is not the forum in which to do that. I think that by design, Twitter is the forum in which people feel comfortable and

sort of shine by just attacking and virtue signaling and then disappearing into the world of the ether. I've always wondered, speaking of discussion is what what

goes on in the state and i've had that we've discussed what goes on in the state senate when they're somebody has to make this law somebody had to decide that 15 that that 17 was okay and 16 you're you're a pedophile somebody had to make that decision. So I'm just, I've always wondered about what goes on in the legislature if a state representative stands up and says, now, I understand that

I understand that the young lady 15 is certainly a young lady, no question about it. But my constituents feel that she is, that nature has endowed her with the... But that's absolutely right. I mean, Dan's making it funny,

but some of these lines seem arbitrary, though this one is not. The notion of a 15-year-old being ill-prepared to deal with somebody 15 years her senior is inarguable. And we don't live in an agrarian society where the priority is having enough. I feel as though 13 would be an appropriate minimum age that my constituents who are rural folk you understand get lonely especially during harvesting season

that's right during harvesting season first of all part of the problem is that the people in charge actually do sound like that. Yes, you're right. The ones in North Carolina, maybe. Those aren't the people who should be making those laws. Every state has to make a law. Every state has to come up with a number. Well, everything's in the ballpark, though. Like, it's between 16 and 17,

but most in this country, anyway. Right. And to be very clear, this is not... Pedophilia is prepubescent children. This is not what we're talking about. I wouldn't dare say that on Twitter. Well, I mean, it's the definition of the actual word. I know it's the definition, but people don't want to hear that either. They want to just say it.

That's how charged it all becomes. You're not allowed to say the definition for God. I mean, it's wild. I mean, you actually have a few really funny jokes about the actual definition of a fucking word, right?

I do? No, it does. I mean, maybe you do. Yeah, yeah. No, no, it's in there somewhere, but it's like- You're going to go over me with the definition joke. Either way. Either way.

I mean, the notion of, I don't know. Look, I don't think 15-year-olds should be fucking 30-year-olds. Of course. 30-year-olds should be fucking 30 year olds or 30 year olds should be fucking 15 year olds. You know, and what do you think is going to happen when you have like, obviously that's a disaster,

right? There's no argument that it's ill conceived or against that being the case. I think the only thing that we want to be able to engage about, whether it's race or me too related or or underage is a discussion about the same literally precisely the same model our legal system uses to determine the degree to which you need to be um punished i mean also i think it was 30 and 15 not 33 33 it was 30 in the case of jeff it was the accusation is 33 i mean when we when my girlfriends and i were 15 years old like i mean one of my girlfriends had sex with a 26 year old guy you know i mean and years later

when she was 15 and she wound up marrying him i mean they got divorced later you know many years later but you know courtney stodden married that guy uh that that actor you guys know who he is i don't know who courtney stodden is let alone the actor that she married well you know i'm sure it's an example of somebody with a major age gap, regardless, but it's like... Courtney Alexis Stodden. She is an American media...

She married... I mean, we have to draw a line somewhere, but we can't let everybody have sex with anybody they want. So I think 17, 18 is a reasonable line. But the question is, what is the degree of immorality? And therefore, what's the degree of punishment? Because there are people that would see Jeff go to jail.

There are people for whom 10 years in state prison for Jeff would be appropriate. I don't think that that would be appropriate. I think that that would be excessive. Although I think it's reasonable. And even she says here, please don't ever do this to another minor again, even if the parents sign off. She was groomed as a child bride and verbally abused by Doug Hutchinson.

No 15 year old is equipped mentally to be in a relationship with a 30 something year old is equipped mentally to be in a relationship with a 30 something year old person right you're 100 right but there's i i don't think there's any reasonable argument there i just and it's not even an argument it's it's only my desire would be to enter into a discussion about about what went, to understand the context of what went on, the degree of offense. Right. And it's only upon that level of consideration that we would be able to determine

whether or not the punishment fits the crime. I mean, this is literally 300-year-old legal theory. I mean, it's... Well, she says. Why are we not following our own... My understanding is that she is very forthcoming

in that she pursued him. I mean, she actively pursued him. Right. And other adults, including her own father, enabled that behavior and supported that behavior. To what extent do you want to say that that's a mitigating circumstance is up for discussion. But certainly people would say that that does not mitigate it at all. And were I even to say that that might be mitigating, I would be taking the task for that by certain people.

What did they say to you? They just said, you know, defending pedophilia. Right. Just because, and I was simply defending Neil's discussion of the... Now, if you took a

snapshot of the definition of the word pedophilia from the dictionary and posted it do you think you would also get similar yes i do yes i do yes i do yeah yes i do if if if i did it with the uh you know in order to imply that that it's not pedophilia to have sex with a 15 year old just to have that discussion um would would would be bad, you know? I mean, just because it's not pedophilia. It doesn't mean it's not wrong, but it's also not bestiality. I mean,

I don't understand. Yeah, well, right. But people that, they don't want to have discussions of any kind, some people, and especially not on Twitter. Twitter is, but I think in person, too, a lot of people are like that, especially a lot of people we've had on the podcast.

But Twitter makes it worse. Twitter makes it worse, I agree. The anonymity of Twitter, when you're not in somebody's proximity, you know, it makes it worse. But anyway.

No, it's all more polarized than it's ever been. I mean, I'll touch or write something and people are emotional about that. And instead of sort of deconstructing the argument, you know, Seinfeld was more attacking than sort of just offering a counter opinion. He did both. He offered a counter opinion andinion and then called him a putz. Right, right. In a rare Seinfeldian use of Yiddish, because Seinfeld has spent much of his career avoiding Yiddish. He's not exactly Jackie Mason.

Seinfeld really never referred to Judaism in his stand-up act. And you see that as Yiddish avoidance? I think so. In the show Seinfeld... I don't know if it's Yiddish avoidance? I think so. In the show Seinfeld. I don't know if it's an active avoidance. I mean, maybe he's breaking the Yiddish. I don't know if it was an active avoidance, but I think his,

some people use Yiddish and some people don't. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, he never did. You know, I heard Billy Joel use Yiddish in an interview a few years ago and I was kind of shocked. There's a guy who's been dancing around his own Judaism for decades. We all thought he was Italian.

He would sing about his come out Virginia, the Catholic girls, and the Italian restaurant, Bottle of Red. Well, but there are also, look, I don't know. I haven't followed any of those careers. And Mama Leone moving out Antony's song. Antony, you know, remember Antony? Right, but you don't know how he grew I don't know. I haven't followed any of those careers. And Mama Leone moving out Antony's song. Antony, you know, remember Antony? Right, but you don't know how we grew up, you know. It's like, there are people that, certainly

the way I grew up, like, I identify with aspects of, you know, Lower East Side, Jew-y kind of hustle culture, but in terms of a more elevated, you know, lots of Yiddish references, like, you know. I'm just saying, some people are more, so whether it's avoidance or whether it's just he, lots of Yiddish references, like, you know. I'm just saying, some people are more Yiddish. So, whether it's

avoidance or whether it's just he's not a Yiddish-using person, I was kind of surprised to hear him call, I'll touch your a puck for that reason. And I was also, I heard Billy Joel referring to feeling, I think nachas was the word that he used. He was

describing his daughter's piano playing. He said, it's nachos. And I was like, who are you? I mean, you know, you've been, because Billy Joel was always very not Jew, you know, and you look, I get it, you're a rock star. There's nothing, there's nothing less rock and roll than Judaism, let's face it.

Well, but there are also different kinds of Jews. I mean, Israeli Jews tend to be, you know, it's more like you know, there's Jews like you, and then there's, I'm half Jewish, and I'm, you know. Lenny Kravitz wears a big fucking diamond Jewish star around his head. Yeah.

Lenny Kravitz will never say, will never use Yiddish. Well, but the point being that a guy like really joel i mean i think he had a little bit of a working class background on long island right i mean it's not like we grew up on the upper east side with a under a route well really joel is an interesting case that you know his grandfather was a very wealthy industrialist in germany i mean millions of dollars you know uh and it was all taken by the Nazis. It was like

Joel Industries or something. It was like textile, I don't know, whatever it was. I didn't know that. And then the Nazis took it, you know, they took Jewish businesses. So it was, the Joels were reduced to poverty, or at least to whatever they were reduced to, and they came to America. And I don't know what, his father, I think, ran out on the family and went back to Europe after the war or something like that. I don't know the history precisely, but yeah, you know, he was kind of a middle-class guy, I guess.

But his grandfather was a big industrialist. And sometimes later in life... Pardon? How did we veer into... Yeah, I know, we went into something. Well, Don said that veer into this? Yeah, I know. We went into something. Well, Don said that Billy Joel

was middle class, and he is, but he's fairly rarefied stock. I believe his uncle was a big conductor. I know his brother's a conductor. Yeah, he's got... He's a conductor in Europe.

Talent. Yeah. Should we try to have him on the show? Huh? Should we try to get him on the show? You can try.

I mean, you know, you could try. Sure, you could try. Yeah, because, I mean, okay, try. You know, God bless you. All right. It's 10 o'clock. Go ahead, try. I mean, try to, you know, try to swim the Atlantic Ocean.

Go ahead. I'm not stopping you. I think I've achieved more difficult things than having No, you haven't. No, you haven't. Achieved more difficult things than getting Billy Joel on our podcast? Yeah, who cares?

What have you done that is more difficult than that? I mean, I've written two fucking books. I've had a baby. A lot of having a baby. You and a hundred billion other women over the course of human history. Over the course of human history. That have had a baby.

I mean, and as far as writing two books, yes, that's an impressive achievement. Not as impressive as getting Billy Joel on the road. I have to say that it would be really sad if that were my most impressive achievement. Yeah, that would be very sad. Getting Billy Joel on this podcast. Yeah, that, that, that. It would be, you know. It might not be your most profound. Right, it would not be your most profound. But, it would not be your most profound.

But it would be something that's very difficult. It would be very difficult for me to juggle 10 balls. Right. That would be my most difficult achievement. That does not mean that it is the most, that with which I would be most proud or of which I would be most proud. But that's a very interesting distinction because juggling 10 balls would be the most impressive thing anybody could possibly pull off.

And yet it would be the least important thing they'd ever done. But, but the most impressive. Yes. I mean, specifically Billy Joel or anybody sort of like Billy Joel, anybody at that level, you know, but I mean, I don't want to disparage Dennis D. Young because we did have him.

He's wonderful. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what he's talking about. But Billy Joel is, I mean, he's the piano man. All right. All right. You know, it's 8.06. Okay. So let's, we had a nice tight discussion

today so I want to thank Dove and Perrielle and we'll get back to classic rock after this break after this word from Town Tire and you can listen and also watch this episode on

YouTube and you can follow us at live from the people you can follow us at Live from the Depot. Email us at email us at podcast at comedy cellar dot com and we'll leave you with Pizza Terra and Chicago if you leave me now.

See you next time. Bye bye.