The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Live from the Table: Judy Gold and Allan Havey

Episode Date: August 28, 2020

Comics Judy Gold (HBO, Comedy Central) and Allan Havey (Mad Men, Billions) join the show as Comedy Cellar owner, Noam Dworman, goes on a rant about Jerry Seinfeld and Zabar's baskets. 

okay okay this is live from the table the official podcast of new york's world famous comedy seller coming at you on sirius xm 99 raw dog and on the ride cast podcast network dan natterman here with comedy seller owner noam dorman producer of live from the table periol ashton brandon our guest today judy gold stand-up comic and host of the hit podcast kill me now wait yes she's had stand-up specials on hbo comedy central and logo and her new book yes i can say that when they come for the comedians we're all in trouble was released in july from day street books we also have alan havey stand-up comic accomplished actor he's been in such shows as AMC's Mad Men,

Billions on Showtime, Judd Apatow's Love on Netflix, Bosh on Amazon. From the West Coast, Alan Havy is with us tonight. Welcome, one and all. Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Dan. Good to see you. Good to see you, Noy. By the way, Alan

Havy had, I know it's out of date, but had one of the best fucking shows on late night television. Oh, that's very sweet. Thank you, Julie. True. It's very true. What was it? Night After Night? Yeah, it was called Night After Night. It was such a great fucking show.

Yeah, I mean, I've told you, Alan used to do the best interviews, I mean, I've told you, Alan, Alan used to do the best interviews. I mean, you were really, really good at that. Better than some of the guys or most of the guys

who made their careers doing it. Well, it takes about a year of solid interviewing, but I was just kind of getting up on my pony legs.

And then, we should pull it out from underneath you. That's what we should do well listen i had over a little over three years so i'm not complaining it was a great i love that show was so good i had well i had great writers a great staff good producers it was i was not alone okay very humble all right did you read my book introduce we have not i haven't read the whole book cover cover i've read parts about it i essentially look for my name in? We have not read the book. I haven't read the whole book cover to cover. I've read parts about it.

I essentially looked for my name in it. No, no, I haven't had a chance. You're in it, and I thank you in it, too. That was very sweet of you. I appreciate it. I have not sat down. I'm not going to lie. I have not sat down.

I really am curious as to, you know. Does Judy know she has a microphone? She doesn't. Kimberly, go for it. I just complimented you. Yeah, I know. I have two copies of it. You're weak.

Oh, thank you. I got two copies. I ordered one copy from Amazon and they sent me two. I don't know if we, I haven't read it, but I- You're the second person

who told me that. I checked out the foreword today in the first chapter. It's very funny, very personal, and very true. I'm glad you wrote this book. Thank you, Alan. People are getting attacked.

Comedians are getting attacked. They're cherry-picking our material and say, look what this person said. If you take it out of a context in a comedy club, it doesn't work. Alan, you're going to love all the history of censorship, too, in it. Good. Come on, Julia. Give our listeners at home a synopsis. Okay. So the book is about free speech from the perspective of a,

of a standup comedian. And it gives a lot of the history of comedy and censorship and how we got to the point where we're at now and the heroes you know that were arrested so that we can say whatever the fuck we want on stage and now we have these like pc police like i am triggered and you know i it when you take intent nuance and context out of a comedy bit you're done you're done and all we want to do is make you laugh and if you go to a comedy club and get upset that you're offended that you got offended okay that's like going to an amusement park getting on a roller coaster and being upset that you got sick or scared. So

cut the fucking shit and stop holding comedians to a higher standard than elected officials whose speech really does incite violence and kill people. We're just trying to make you laugh. We're trying to see you to see the world through our perspective. Yes, we make point writes a song you don't like you're like oh i'm gonna just uh i don't like this album i'm not and and fine that's the end of it why is it when a comedian says something you don't like they should be canceled forever no well who's been canceled with regard to song writing i would just say that uh billy joel did get a lot of flack for uh only the good die young which was apparently very helpful because he got a lot of publicity for this you know what i write about billy joel in the book because you know unlike a comic he's you know we we do our act

we can't live off the same act for 50 years and he can, he can live off the same album for 50 years. Well, no, he's written many albums. Well, yes. Alan, Alan asked who's been canceled. Who are you referring to? What comedian has been canceled from what he said or threatened? Well, there's comedians who have been canceled for okay kevin hart i talk about kevin hart not being able to host the emmys ridiculous oscars oscars same thing

what did he say he had a terrible joke terrible stupid joke about which i don't even think was funny about um if his if he came home and his son was playing with a dollhouse he'd break the dollhouse over the kid's head okay well it's more of a statement right um so they said that as anti he had some anti-l you know gay shit right okay fine he's i know him he's not anti-gay shit. Okay, fine. I know him. He's not anti-gay. The jokes weren't even funny. Okay. Kathy Griffin cannot answer her phone. She cannot answer her own phone.

This is showing cutting off Trump's head, or what it appeared to be. So it wasn't even a joke. It was more visual. Right. So she's at a photo shoot. They're like, like oh this will be funny not funny but how would that photo be um reacted to today how would people react to that

today as opposed to three and a half years ago well she lost her gig on cnn she lost all her work she lost her agent she lost her manager she lost everything everything but she got back up she has a huge gay audience that supports her okay alan what what are you fucking just trying to give me shit no she really you know you talk call her she went to europe she did a um a, whatchamacallit in Europe. She's banned from every late night show. No. Okay, Judy, let's talk about a tough one. Roseanne Barr making that joke about Valerie Jarrett

looking like a character in Planet of the Apes. How do you feel about that one? I feel like everyone has a right to say whatever they want and tweet whatever they want, but if you work for a corporation, you kind of sell your soul. Well, which Kathy Griffin was a corporation

and she was on CNN. I'm not saying I agree with it, but you do have to take responsibility for your words. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. What about Roseanne Barr going on at the Comedy Cellar? And people, if people accused me of being, you know, racially racist. No, sorry.

Look, this is her art, you know, this is what she does for a living. You can't say a person can't do their art. If she was a painter or she was, she'd still be painting. If she was a writer, she'd still be writing. I mean, this whole idea. Ari Shaffir with his Kobe Bryant joke. Right. I didn't hear that. Ari Shaffir expressed joy when Kobe died because Kobe had been accused of rape. And so Ari said, well, essentially good that he died. So liberals love basketball more than they hate rape or something like that. So I think that's a. Yeah, but I think I suspect Ari says things to be controversial.

Right. Gilbert, Gilbert, Gilbert. Canceled from Melac. You know, I interviewed him for a long time. Again, canceled from Mathelac, a corporation. Right! That's the same thing as with, that's the same thing with Roseanne. But is that, well, Roseanne put that on

Twitter, right? Right. But she is So that was a racist statement. Right. Comparing a black person to a monkey. What should a corporation do? That's not a joke. That was a joke. I don't think it to a monkey. What should a corporation... That's not a joke. That was a joke. I don't think it was a joke. I don't think it was funny. Well, we're talking about stand-up comedians on stage.

Yes, it's a racist statement. And I understand why she was taken off the air. What? I'm sorry. Saying that people look like people is sort of a staple in stand-up comedy. Oftentimes, it's like, oh, I look like, you know, so-and-so and so-and-so had a baby, or I look like so-and-so cracked.

That is a racist trope. It is, but a racist trope can be a joke, but it's a racist joke. It's a mean-spirited joke, but a joke nonetheless. I mean, it's kind of, it's hazy, you know, in terms of what's a joke and what's a statement. To be fair to Roseanne, listen, comparing black people to monkeys is a third rail that's been around for a

long time. So she should have been, and for good reason, but she claims that she never realized that Roseanne, that Valerie Jarrett was actually black. And I rolled my eyes at that at first, but she's really stood by that story, and it is possible. You know, it is possible she thought she was just like a dark person.

Okay, but that doesn't excuse the stupidity in the movie. No, it excuses, that excuses. If she thought she was just, like she said, Oh, it does? Like, look her up and say, it's called Google? No, but it excuses, excuses is the word I would choose,

but it changes the intent of the joke for sure. It means that she didn't knowingly just step on a landmine. But did she come right back with that saying, I didn't know she was black? Was that a week or 10 days later? She came right back with it. And I don't know that she's being honest, but to be fair, we don't know that she's lying either.

So I want to say it for the record. Judy, what do you think a corporation should do when they're in a situation where they might lose money? Because, you know, for example, Shane Gillis when he said what he said and SNL dropped them. That's a good example. Pardon? So what should a corporate, what should Netflix do? I don't know. I'm not, I don't think in a corporate way, I have no executive function. You know. I'm not, I don't think in a corporate way. I have no executive function.

You know, I'm an artist. I don't know. I really, I don't know how corporations think. I have, that is not even in my brain. I mean, generally they think, is this going to affect our bottom line? Right. It's all about money.

Money, money, money. I'm not sure that's true, Dan. Okay. And I'll tell you why I'm not sure it's true. I don't think there's ever been an example where anything actually did affect a corporation's bottom line. They keep their head down for a couple of weeks and then it just blows over. There is a peer pressure aspect to this. And although Alan is correct, you can say, well, it's corporate and money and whatever it is. You can take that same logic and justify everything that Lenny Bruce went through. Say, well, he was breaking law and it was corporate and whatever it is. So at some point we have to say yes, but the social norm that we keep hugging is really, really bad for comedy

and for art and for free conversation. And like the comedy seller, when I went through that Louis thing, I could have not put Louis on and people would say, he's a private business. He has to worry about the bottom line and nobody can say boo to me.

But the truth is, we got through it fine. We took a blow. I is, we got through it fine. We took a blow. I mean, we switched the ground. And we, what's the expression? We took a blow for free speech. We cast a blow for free speech. And Louie is a big part of why the club is successful, too.

And also, Louie's in my book as well. He's definitely part of why the club is successful. The club was successful prior to Louie is a big part of why the club is successful too. And also Louie's in my book as well. He's definitely part of why the club is successful. The club was successful prior to Louie's show and after Louie's show. And that's not why I did that. That's not why I did that. But you can't say Louie shouldn't be able to perform. I mean, if you don't, if you own a club and you don't like him, then you don't have to book him. But you can't say he should never be able to get on stage again.

You know, I talk about Coco Chanel in the book. Coco Chanel was embedded with the Nazis. Embedded. And yet, I go to synagogue on Rosh Hashanah, and they're all wearing Chanel suits, Chanel scarves, Chanel purses, Chanel shoes. The same thing with Ugo Boss. They designed the uniforms for the SS. Right. Honestly, they did a reasonably good job.

Those uniforms were definitely sharp. I don't condone the principles of the SS, but their sartorial choices, I think, were reasonable. And look, we're encouraging a sense in people that they have a right to impose their will on other people in terms of what they should be able to see. So for instance, with Louis, it's not that people who were coming to the Comedy Cellar didn't want to see Louis. People at home in Iowa were demanding that we not put Louie on.

And you had comedians out there, too, which I was surprised. A lot of comedians were troping Louie and giving Louie a hard time. Now, I don't agree with what he did. He apologized for it. I read everything I could. But I think you have to do something pretty heinous, uh, not to do comedy. Yeah. And, uh, and getting back to Lenny Bruce for a second, Lenny Bruce was an individual. He wasn't representing any corporation. He wasn't a permanent part of any club. He was a,

a single entity on his own getting up and his material is what was illegal at the time and that's why he was arrested but it's also you know but they did arrest him on the the cursing but it was really the substance of his material it was really the segregation and the vietnam war and yeah but then like tonight and also the sexual the sexual stuff but then but after he did that the tonight show wouldn't want to put him on you know i mean don't we all agree that we would like to see free speech and people being able to say basically whatever they want? Yes. Yes.

I mean, I get that. At the Comedy Cellar, has anybody, did your dad or you ever say you can't say that on stage? Not really. No. I mean, there have been times. Yes. The only thing I've ever, I've ever said is when somebody was personally attacking a member of the audience, it wasn't a joke when they would, you know, when a performer would lose control of themselves and just get a little too

nasty with a member of the audience, like saying, I hope you get cancer, or, you know, something like that. I would, I would ask get cancer, or something like that. Do tell. I would ask them not to do that anymore. Was that to hecklers, or Jesse would pick out an individual? Because there are people in the audience that sometimes say pretty vile things. Yeah, that's true.

It wouldn't be to someone who really had it coming. Right. It would be to somebody, whatever. Sometimes comics slip out because somebody's talking during their set and i've seen comics get a little bit more i think aggressive than the situation would warrant you know but even with a heckler has it coming um the best comics know how to handle that without tanking the whole fucking show right and and some people think well this guy crossed the line with me now i have a get out of jail free card to say anything else i want

even something that nobody can recover from for the next 90 minutes right uh and i and that's not okay i mean we all know that um but having said that no i i i've heard comedians and there are comedians who say stuff that actually i cringe a little bit that i think is a little over the line but i never i don't say boo i just let it go there's also some deep hypocrisy here right because part of what is celebrated about stand-up is that and no and we've talked about this before on the show too is the art form calls to get as close to that line as possible and if you can't play with that line you don't know where it is and also like you know dave chapelle went crazy in his last special and nobody you know there was no effect for that so i think corporations pick and choose um what they want to be scandalized by.

And then they just move on and it's fucking bullshit. Well, I think the line is something that should be crossed. There is a line going. I was just going to say that, Mr. Haley. Stepping over the line. How did Chappelle go crazy?

Chappelle didn't say anything that one would normally get reprimanded yes yes he did he said that uh he said michael jackson's victims were lucky to be to have been molested by michael jackson that kind of thing well that in that context of the show that was fucking funny oh i'm not criticizing yeah i'm just saying you know i mean their parents their parenting skills went out the door we know what he was saying. And yet people do not understand the humor in that joke. They should watch Netflix or play with their coloring books and that's it.

Right. I love Christopher Hitchens. When Christopher Hitchens, when anyone said I'm offended. He was a big fan of the women. Christopher Hitchens would say, I don't get your point. What's your point? I'm offended. What's your point? You know?

And I know he wasn't, he just said that women weren't funny and that's bullshit. But, you know, being offended, I'm offended comedically. I'm only offended at a comedian when he does a lame joke or I know he stole a joke

or a derivative joke. That is the only thing that really offends me. That isn't in this book. That is a chapter in the book about how fucking lazy, shitty comics ruin it for all of us. Well, they don't ruin it. They just ruin it for the audience. Okay.

Can I be hyperbole here? Hyperbolic? Hyperbolic, yeah. Hyperbolic, yes. Shut up, Matty! Okay, sorry maddie okay at home working on your vocabulary the word is hyperbolic i was saying hyperbolic and then i had to say shut the fuck up to the and then the i had a brain fart sorry okay go ahead so hyperbolic us no i'm just saying i i whatever i can't because the dog won't shut the fuck up. Yeah, I know. This is the pandemic. This is what happens a dog barks and I'm not and you lose your train of thought. I know, you know, someone gets in front of you in traffic,

and you go bonkers, right? We're all kind of very sensitive right now. Very similar to when comedians are on stage doing their act. And somebody starts talking yes so but i'm okay go ahead judy be hyperbolic i don't know what were we talking about you were talking about shitty comedians ruin oh yes i'm sorry lazy comedians a bad joke uh someone who uh you know, spews racial epithets or lazily writes a joke and then blames the audience. You know, I'm sorry. It's really upsetting to me. Well, a lot of young comics now kind of make statements. There's not even a tag.

Right. There's not a joke. Exactly. The last open mic I went to, and just listened i didn't go on and uh i was talking to young comedians and i said well you've got to get to a point where it's funny you know this is not just a conversation you overheard at a chinese restaurant right so that's the only thing that really offends me from stand-up comedians and i think your, does it concentrate mostly on comedians on stage and not necessarily like Roseanne and Kathy Griffin who did something across the media?

Yes, it does. Yes. Comedians on stage. Yes. That is the also as far as the line is concerned, oftentimes we don't know where the line is until we've crossed it and we go okay it's not funny anymore okay but you know we need the audience for that we need the audience for stuff and yet they're gonna getting fucking pissed off at us no and oh no no chapelle knew where the line is and he put his big foot over it. Right. Fantastic. Really, there shouldn't be any line. I mean, nobody needs to get canceled.

The audience is not going to accept something that's ugly. They're not. However it is that they have their antenna, and it's not just on the words, it's whatever that vibe is, however they can tell them between Chappelle and a comedian who really does hate

or whatever it is. The audience will get it right. And if the audience is enjoying it, then it should be allowed to continue. Right. I don't see a comedy-seller audience, a comedian killing with hateful, ugly humor. I don don't see it i don't see it happening

right because i don't see there i could i could imagine it happening in certain contexts yes and certain places not at the not at the seller let them who cares do i really am i gonna be can i can i relax uh knowing that there's some anti-Semitic pocket in America where they're laughing at the same Jewish jokes that I tell my Jewish friends privately? I mean, I just don't care. Maybe I should care. I just don't care. Yes, but what about the black jokes? You know, that is harsher. I agree. You know, a black person would have to answer that i i tend to think um i don't know if this if there's some community where people are telling really ugly black jokes at a comedy club i don't know what do we think about that i mean i i would i don't think well put it this way you're not going to change those attitudes by stopping the comedy club

yeah but okay but what happens then when when when when snl gets wind of it or uh netflix gets wind of it and says well we're not doing business with this individual anymore or when when the networks get wind of it so yeah i mean you're right the problem is there's always a hypothetical which breaks a reasonable conversation you can always compare something to hitler or this and that and yeah there's some things which are so obviously wretched now that you would agree on the other hand those things tend to only exist in a hypothetical world it's not like you really have an example, there's very few examples of a comedian saying something wretched. And when he does, the audience will respond with, whoa, or silence.

There are examples of comedians saying things that might be wretched if they were serious, but they weren't necessarily serious. Right. And when you get an audience on a roll and you're cooking, you can really manipulate it and say a lot of things you wouldn't say maybe in a regular set. Once they buy you, they know what you're about and they know you're a comedian because there's a sign behind you that says comedy club. And sometimes it's difficult to distinguish between the comedian talking and a character that the comedian has created. So I think the best example would be would be dice clay back in the late 80s early 90s played his character was the character of a misogynist from brooklyn and this is in judy's book i gather because she's pointing at it

and so the whole thing i talk about him a lot yeah now he has every fucking right to do it so he would talk about misogynist stuff and was it him? Was it Andrew Dice Clay? No, it wasn't Andrew Silverstein. It was Andrew Dice Clay, so you have to make that distinction. Right, so there's a chapter in the book called There's a Reason It's Called an Act. I mean, comedy is a little bit of an interesting

hybrid because sometimes it is us talking and sometimes it's a character that we've created talking and sometimes it's a character that we've created talking and sometimes it's kind of both mixed together you know obviously david tell never really uh buried his girlfriend in jersey which is one actually as far as we know i drove him but he borrowed my shovel so let's say there's some comedian working at the comedy cellar and we look at that video of charlottesville from two years ago or three years ago right and he's carrying a fucking tiki torch saying the jews will not replace me replaces us whatever it is he's an authentic nazi sympathizer

and then he wants to go on go on the stage and tell you know knock knock jokes what's the punch line so that's the thing what's what's the point if he's got a good joke i have yeah i agree if you can talk about anything make it funny if especially the most subversive stuff it has to be funny funny funny and not just funny to you right judy of course funny is a trial and error process so it might not be funny but But, you know, not everything is funny. When Dice Clay has Madison Square Garden, this is back in the mid-'80s, okay, when he was up there. Hickory dickory dock, the chick is sucking my, you know, all those things.

And the audience is roaring. And I'm looking at it and going, well, I don't find it funny, but they do. I don't think it's great comedy, but they do. So, you know, it's a very, it's very democratic. But also there's, but you knew where the joke was. Like there's so many times now, like there's so, there's people I'm like, all right, I don't think that's funny, but I know where the joke is. I get, okay, that's what the joke is.

But there's so many people now, I don't know where the joke is i i get okay that's what the joke is but there's so many people now i don't know where the joke like and i always know where the joke is well that's another book though okay i'm just letting you know you're ready for where's the joke where's the fucking joke like you can't just lazily do shit and then i don't know i think having someone who you know is an actual real life nazi you know perform is a different thing than having someone quote unquote canceled because you don't like the kind of jokes they're telling right Right. Okay, but let's examine that. I mean, like... Hypothetically, has a Nazi ever performed at your club? They're not funny!

No? Yeah. They're only well-dressed. That's my knowledge. I mean, there are comedians who are racist and misogynistic to the core, but they go on stage

and they tell jokes about their wife and they're very funny. Right. Esty does a good job of weeding out the Nazis, but she could smell a Nazi. But anyway, but, but hypothetically, it's just an interesting question. First of all, I, I would just say this guy's horrible and I could actually see myself. I don't give a shit

if he has some stupid Nazi points of view. I would just, you know, so much of it is about looking right to your friends. Like, if I thought it would actually prevent Nazism in America, if I thought, like, maybe I would do my part,

but America, we give ourselves do my part, but America, we give ourselves, I mean, we have a First Amendment. There's total free expression. The Nazis are totally free to say what they want. Some guy who's a Nazi by day and tells jokes by night, do I need to punish him for that?

Do I need to make sure he doesn't work? I know most Jews would tell me, yes, you have to do that, and maybe it's a defective reflex in me, but I'm like, I could just compartmentalize it because I'll tell you something. I've taught it before. Now people are going to get mad. But like when I had musicians coming in wearing Farrakhan t-shirts, right at the time that Farrakhan was praising Hitler, if I had kicked one of them out, people would have called me a racist.

They would have told me I was nuts. You know, so it's really, you know, if you really start examining it, you can make a hypocrite out of anybody. So I'm like, what the fuck? I just, I, I, it's like in, in a criminal law, they say better to have a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man be convicted. And I kind of feel that way about all these free speech things. It's like better to have some horrible person get away with working than to start sniffing around to try to find out who shouldn't be working. Because believe me, the second you are given the task of making sure,

the responsibility of making sure certain people shouldn't be working, you're going to find certain people who shouldn't be working. Right. And half of the time you're going to be unfair don't give a shit what you do hand someone to the network notes uh on your sitcom and they're 28 years old it's their job to find out problems in that script even though they have no idea right and they will ever face a situation where you found somebody so disagreeable personally that it affected your decision to let them on stage?

No, I'm gifted. I mean, I'm gifted with my father's gene on that. I can easily, it doesn't matter what I mean, the guy who banged my wife, he was suspended for two weeks. Wait, wait, who, who banged your wife? I can't, I can't talk about it.

He's an A-lister, but, uh, but this is before she was your wife, right? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Oh my God. I'm kidding. I'm just saying that I, I, I, I could come part. Who got to one minute before I did? That's what I was saying. Hold on. I will tell you this is actually true. I was with Juanita. That my father did have a musician who banged his wife in a long story, and he did look past it. Yeah, but how many women was your dad banging at the time? Well, that was not the,

my father didn't do it because he didn't want to be a hypocrite. That wasn't the reason behind it. But I'm just saying like, you know, you can just let things go. It is possible. It's just in a certain way, you can create the feeling yourself like,

look at me, I'm actually superior because he thinks he's blah, blah, blah. And I'm actually letting him go on stage and I'm making the money right i'm i'm running the successful business so fuck him let him do it let him say what he wants let him be a nazi i don't care now here's a hypothetical is has there been a comedian at the club over the years even when your dad was there um who brought a poisonous attitude to the table and to the other comedians and was just a drag, not so much on stage, but they were just a drag to be around and people didn't like them. Have you ever said, you know, let's not have that guy back here anymore?

No, I've never done that, but I did. I'll talk about it because it got out recently. I did suspend somebody for two weeks for some tweets after like the third warning that, that were making the atmosphere within the cellar just too difficult. They were kind of stink bombs into the family atmosphere of the comedy cellar. And I was like, if you want to tweet that way about another comic works here, I just,

you know, the house divided can't stand. So you're not going to be able to work here while you do that. You're free to do that. Right, but that's just like the corporations. Yeah, but that wasn't any kind of permanent suspension. And truthfully, I never wanted it to come to that. But at some point, I realized it was going to bring the house down just we couldn't have that going on and i figured it would go away and it did i don't think that's everything

what's that i want to know exactly who that was and i'll tell you i'll i'll uh i'll chat it i mean everybody knows i'm getting chats i see three chats chats right now. Oh, I didn't even see that. I don't think that that's like the corporations because I feel like Noam said to them, you know, please don't do this while you're working here. The corporations are just like firing. He suspended them. Well, it becomes-

Oh, right, right, right. Because we don't have Noam's bottom line. It was a question of harmony in the community. Noam didn't want fights breaking out upstairs. That's what I meant by my question. Yeah, anybody that kind of poisons the goodwill there. Right. And the familiar feel of the place.

That's very different than Gilbert making a joke that a joke that affleck you know freaks out of it no i know that i'm just saying yeah yeah that the fact that noam had to say look cut the shit out or you know yeah i have a responsibility there that and that but that has nothing to do my personal feelings or offense or anything like that it's just like the same thing if the audience hates them or whatever. I have to run a smooth ship there. How do you respond to comments through your

website and people say, hey, we saw this comedian. We were offended by what he said. What is your response to that? I've written some emails. I defend the comedian almost always. Except in the times when i thought the comedian attacked somebody in which case i've apologized you know and they said we demand

that you don't work i said listen i'm not gonna tell him to stop working but i'm sorry he said that i if i were you if i i mean i'm always honest but i said if i were you i'd be upset too like when somebody made some really hot horrible comment about somebody's girlfriend being ugly or something something like that i'm not talking about that. I'm talking about in their act. They do their act. There's no heckling. There's no personal attack. I always say the comedian side. That happened not that long ago. It was with Sam Morrill and that alligator joke, right? Yeah. What's the alligator joke?

Well, there was a little boy that was killed by an alligator in Florida and Sam made a joke, I guess, arguably making light of that situation. And this was, I guess, whenever that happened a couple years ago. And so they complained to the comedy seller. And you said what, Noam? I don't remember. I could look up the email and play on the next show. But I defended Sam. It was pathetic to her as well.

Well, yeah, I i mean i probably was i'll tell you this i can't tell you how many times i've answered a very nasty email very honestly without getting nasty myself and then got back another email with a person apologized or backed down or thank you. Yeah. Very, very common. Even with the Louis stuff, almost half the people I would say who sent me, you know, horrible emails when I answered them and I made my case would say, you know, I hadn't thought of that. You're right. All right. I never thought you'd answer me, but I really, I respect you for that.

Yeah. What, what do you say to the people who are like, I was there. I didn't, I bought tickets and then Louie walked in and he ruined it for me. Sorry. That's that was Louie. No, I'm kidding. I give them their money back. That's what we do. We give them their money back. But then what if they write you? Like, what would write back to them if you got one of those letters? Some form of that, of that argument that I was making at the time about that. I, I,

I don't understand what kind of standard there is. And we, we tell people they don't have to stay and we give them their money back. But what a willing performer and a willing audience want to do is not other people's business. And it's very, it's very, it really matches the tone and the specifics of the email that I get. And quite often also I would send them like the New York times podcast that I did where I, where I kind of did a good job of, of, email that I get. And quite often also, I would send them like the New York Times podcast that I did where I kind of did a good job of stating my case

and people will listen to it and then they will write me back. But anyway, just the real point is that people write sometimes when they're in the heat of their anger. Right, of course. We all have. And even on their own,

the next day they're like, oh shit, maybe I shouldn't have gone that far. You can't judge. They have to get to a certain point. The kettle has to be whistling for them to even to write. And naturally, that's their extreme. That's not even where they average are. So it gives you a false sense of what a person might actually be

like. Gotcha. Anyway. I'm looking for the Sam Morrill thing. Okay, while you're looking for Sam Morrill, we've been talking a lot about this James Altucher piece and Jerry Seinfeld's reply.

Yes. And James Altucher's counter reply. And then Danny Zoldan, another owner of the club in the New York Post today, said that Seinfeld's not nice. And, you know, he was being mean. Wow. Seinfeld's not nice? Wait, what?

Wow. You're not aware of this whole exchange? Yes. No, I read. I didn't see the. I saw Seinfeld's. Wait, so what happened today? Well, James wrote another article saying Seinfeld's not paying it, you know, that he's, Seinfeld's shooting the messenger, essentially, that James said, well, I'm sorry to deliver bad

news, but that's how I interpret the situation, that New York is in big, big trouble. Well, no, he, yeah, but he said, oh, it's over's how i i interpret the situation that new york is in big big trouble well no he yeah but he he said oh it's over it's not coming back and i don't even believe the same by the way i think yeah and i've moved to miami and all my friends are moving away it was just a hysterical little uh article and jerry i thought with great wit and articulation, who he's been in my mind, or what I've seen for the last 40 years, you know, responded to the article. And I thought his opinion was spot on. Yes, although I didn't think Jerry needed to be quite as personal in his attacks. But I know a lot of people don't like James personally.

And so they don't divorce. But also, right, he wrote the most negative article. And also, here we are claiming we're a comedian, right? He's one of these guys who's made a shitload of money. And then, oh, I like comedy. I think I'll do comedy. So he's a shadow artist as far as comedy goes? It doesn't bother me. I'm sort of flattered that somebody that's so capable in another industry

thinks so much of our industry that they want to be a part of it. But I understand that. But I think what I'm saying, but but seinfeld is coming from a whole different mindset like this guy is saying i'm a comedian i'm this i'm that and he wasn't saying that though that's not what james was saying james whatever james was saying he was saying it wasn't even as a comic. I mean, and Seinfeld was like, you're a putz. And this is, you know, whatever. And you could spruce up your club, which wasn't very nice, frankly.

And then they wrote back and they said, well, you know, that's nice. You know, we're actually the biggest producer of stand-up shows in New York City right now we're putting on five shows a night and um we went to the park yeah and we and you know the park and every park yeah and I'm reading it now and we walked past your vintage Porsche collection um while you're sitting in your your mansion in the Hamptons. So it has nothing to do with the article. Seinfeld talked about coming to New York in 76. He's a New Yorker.

And we all know he's made a lot of money. And he doesn't respond to everybody that puts down New York. But the article that James wrote, I thought was a little hysterical and a doomsday and everyone I know is moving out and the city is not coming back and and it was it was a pretty severe opinion about what he thought was happening Jerry was responding as a New Yorker and a comedian well I didn't I didn't have a problem with Seinfeld I mean look I look, I'm a lifelong New Yorker, too, and I found the article to be very upsetting also.

I was upset by it as well. You talking about James' article or Seinfeld's article? No, the... What... How do you say... Altucher. Altucher. Altucher.

Altucher. Has he ever performed at the Comedy Cellar? No. I know he's been there a lot. No, no, yes. He performed to the club that he's a part owner in. Is he any good? He's not bad, but he's new, you know.

Yeah. He's shaking your head. And by the way, people in all industries are fascinated by stand-up comedy. It's great that he wanted to buy a club and he keeps that club going. I understand that. Everybody, they look at us. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Your dad was talking, but you just got me out. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no. I'm just saying that people in just about every industry in the world look at comedians with a little bit of awe. How do you do that you know and right that's pretty normal i understand that but then you don't do would he get stage time if he didn't own a club like we we came from nothing and started right but so it's like you're talking

like oh yeah i'm a comedian i'm a comedian and it's like you know i go back to being 19 and hanging out with the back of catch a rising star you know and going on at three o'clock in the morning like sorry okay but my okay we're getting off the only thing that i wanted to say was that i had a whole thing with noam today because he said they said said that Seinfeld wasn't nice. And I said that, you know, I don't like this idea that because Seinfeld, Seinfeld, he can be a jerk and not be nice. And Noam said, well, that's ridiculous. Seinfeld can be however he wants and anybody can be however he wants. And what I wanted to- I said more than that, but I'll let you finish and I'll correct you. Go ahead. you why why break a pattern

why don't you correct me now okay because listen first of all that she was reading me some instagram thing from uh the guy who owns stand up new york with al tucher danny yeah and and he said this thing how he bought seinfeld two gift baskets from zabar's and Seinfeld never even thanked him and like I mean just the most and then he came in and he wasn't nice and I'm like listen Seinfeld doesn't take a stage for less than a couple hundred grand right and he walked in there and he plays your club and all you should be saying in my opinion is thank you mr seinfeld thank you so much don't fucking expect something from him don't tell him he's got this guy who's one of the most famous people in the world who's got to have people coming up to him every five seconds and god forbid the people see him being really really friendly to people in the restaurant then everybody's going to be coming up to him every five seconds and god forbid the people see him being really

really friendly to people in the restaurant then everybody's going to be coming up to him and some people are cut out that way some people are you know like ray romano just like they can handle that kind of cut but he can't and by the way who can't seinfeld and alan you knew him before he was famous listen i've i've seen knew one before during and now and i've seen him in this cellar and he handles everything with a palm same way with chris rock and chappelle there's no entourage there's no bodyguard but he's not like he's not like looking for people he doesn't he doesn't enjoy everybody coming up to him and talking to him who does right well famous and i don't like it so right no so i'm not get me

wrong i was defending him i'm saying that's who he is this fucking this fucking guy sends him a couple of zavars baskets and the guy seinfeld comes into his club and he has the nerve to complain about anything that seinfeld does i'm like this is there's a jewish joke about this sort of thing and it's not And it's not kind of true. Oh, my God. You know, he didn't even write a thank you note. It's like, I was cringing just as like, just shut up. You're really complaining about Seinfeld not being nice enough when he came in to play

your fucking club? Can you catch me doing such a thing? We're cherry picking the article. Putts fits perfectly there. It just kind of, Jerry, go, will you stop it, you putts. And by the way, you could straighten up your club a little bit. It was kind of a funny aside. I agree with Noam.

Hey, Jerry, thank you for the comments. We're fixing up the club. And when you come back to New York, we hope we see you here. That's all you say. Yes, maybe so. But the only thing that I wanted to say about that is that I think that no matter who you are, it's okay to be a little bit nice, even if it's annoying. And my real point- Shut up, Perrielle. No, I'm serious.

I know, I haven't been working- It wasn't very nice, Noam. He's not obligated to talk to people when he comes to the club. I've seen Jerry Seinfeld many different times be very nice to people. And every now and then, you can't be nice all the time. And I thought it was a lovely article, and it was very, I thought it was all benign. I took it as, and you know, when you read something, you don't necessarily know the tone of it. I thought it was a bit harsh. I thought it was a bit harsh toward James, especially you said, you know, stay in Florida. We don't need you.

And what a fitting punishment for you to be stuck in Florida and in a soulless place like Florida. I'm paraphrasing. I did think it was a bit harsh and he could have made the exact same points without calling James a putz. But I also agree with Nona when he comes into the club, he's not obligated to be friendly to everybody. Some people are. Robin Williams was friendly to everybody so much so that I thought there was something, it was bizarre almost, the extent that he was friendly with everybody. I think people ought to take their energy that they expend judging other people and work on themselves.

I mean, if Seinfeld actually was aggressively not nice to somebody, that would be different. But he's there minding his own business, eating his chicken skewers. And somebody comes up to him, interrupts him eating. And he's a little, you know, not, doesn't ingratiate, doesn't make the person feel comfortable about it or it's a little cold and say aha now we got seinfeld how about the fucking guy how about the fucking guy who doesn't have the self-awareness to say why would i walk up to this man eating his fucking chicken skewer let me tell you something here's why here's why here's why people do that well let me finish well hold on let me Hold on. I don't approach anybody, including the most famous people

in the world, who come into my club. You see me, I don't bother them because I say to myself, what do they want to speak to me for? Like, why, am I doing this just for my sake

so I can go home and tell my kids I spoke to Kevin Hart? Are they really interested in speaking to me? I say, Kevin Hart's not interested in speaking to me. He had nothing against me.

So I leave him alone. That's what I'm mentioning. Leave people the fuck alone, especially someone as famous as Seinfeld. It is so selfish to walk up to somebody who's famous, who's eating their dinner, and think now they have to perform

to be nice for you. What do you think? They're sincerely happy to see you? It's ridiculous. Now, wait. Let Alan say what he wants to say. This is why people come up. I agree with you. I'm just saying the article is needlessly harsh in my eyes.

I have a comment on that. I don't think it was harsh at all. I don't either. I don't think it was harsh at all. I think it was very funny and good for him. And I love it because I love New York as much as Jerry and most of you. I love New York City. And I also.

We look at London during the war and the English people. They got through a blitz. They were just bombed every night for like 42 nights. New York is going to get through this. I agree with that. I don't agree with James' article at all. I think New York City is going to be just fine. And what I'm trying to say has nothing to do with coming up more like robin williams and my point to you if i could fucking get it out after a conversation this afternoon was if that were about a woman

like they would be like oh she is such a fucking bitch and that's really that that's true. That is true. That I have to say. I know. Okay. But that's not what we're talking about. I kind of enjoyed the snarkiness. So let me comment on the harsh. You want to say? Go ahead, Judy. Go ahead.

Go ahead. No, I just want to say, you know, piggybacking on Alan, which I've always wanted to do, that I enjoyed the snarkiness in Jerry's article. You don't see that side of him. That's why we like him, because he's a comedian. He's snarky. Okay, so let me get back to my point.

Why do people go up? They go up mostly to comedians or comedic actors like Bill Murray or Robin Williams. Or if you go into a restaurant and you see Meryl Streep hey that's Meryl Streep over there where over there oh wow I love her work but if you see Bill Murray hey Bill hey Bill because they they look at you because Jerry Seinfeld he's like he's been in my home thousands of times I love this guy and that is also in the book the way people treat comedians as opposed to other celebrities in my book yeah yes i can't say that because we we hit a nerve jerry uh and his show have hit a nerve with people and they love him right and

they think they know him and they think they know him have a certain personality you'd be the one person that walks by jerry seinfeld and don't say anything i'm with noam on this oh i totally agree with that also i can i don't i but i also feel like i've sat at dinner tables with everyone from i'm sorry to name drop a little bit but just to really dig my fucking heels in here with everyone from like perry farrell to lenny kravitz and you know it's nice to see people being nice and humble when they don't have to be people can be whatever the fuck they right but lenny kravitz is not a comedian so he's not thinking about his act like i'm gonna do a set i'm i'm in my head right now i mean it's a whole different

yeah i mean it depends when right context is everything right so if jerry's not a fan of new york working on a new set and it's like in his head like oh i want to make sure he doesn't care about zabor's he's got plenty of zabor's at home. Right. Of course. Noam, you wanted to talk about the article itself and whether it was too harsh. There was a lot. This is zooming out past. I can't find his email. Zooming out past Seinfeld. There was a reflex against Altrich's article that I didn't personally feel, so I didn't

understand it, which was anger at a guy who was making a a case i didn't agree with but you know was making it in a way that's within like intellectual intellectually accepted argument and um and he wasn't he didn't tag anybody personally and people came at him very very hard including this comment about your your club you know you might straighten up a bit which which would have, you know, that would have, I would have been depressed for a month if Seinfeld had written that about me in the New York Times. Not for a month. It would have hit me very, very, very hard, especially if he had done that when I felt I was just, you know, I was just writing an article about what I thought in LinkedIn of all places, you know, kind of under the radar about what I thought the future of New York was. The chicken skewers take all that away.

The good food, take it all away. There have been many articles along the lines of James's. So, but on the other hand, there is something to what somebody said. I don't remember which one of you said it, which is that there is a certain way that you receive a comedian's remark which you know it's not quite as serious as it's said because you rib each other that's what comedians do yes he was listen this is not the first time jerry heard this yeah he heard like oh stand-up is over everything's done new york is going to go away right so then he sees this prominent article in the New York post.

I that's it. That's by someone saying he's a comic by the way. Okay. Well, good for him. That might have struck a nerve. That might have struck a nerve. I'm not saying I read Jerry's mind, but I thought it was a terrific piece. And you know, I agree with him and you know, I love New York. Listen not to drop a name and I'm not going to, but I was with a comedy legend having lunch in Las Vegas.

Alan, you can say my name. No. And a couple of people came up. One guy came up and said, can I get a picture? And he said, I'm sorry. I don't like to take pictures with people I don't know. Which was very, and he was very nice about it. He said, you got it. You know, this very respect guy in the business. Then another guy came up,

asked the same thing, and he gave me the answer, but he insisted, you know, come on. And then he finally acquiesced. And then the chef came out of the kitchen. I heard you're out here. We made you the special dessert. And i picked up the tab so this guy this guy left but i doubt uh that he'll probably go back again he doesn't want the chef coming out you know he didn't say anything and he's a amiable guy but people can be real dicks oh for sure for sure i totally agree with that too people People are morons. But it's also different celebrities have different personalities, you know, like when I, all right. And so, I know you're going to make fun of me when I say this, but when I,

I did several shows with Florence Henderson. Okay. Shut up everyone. Shut the fuck up. But every person who came up to her no matter what she stopped she hit she you know she used to write um back to every person who wrote to her like this is a person who was like these are this is these are my fans and i will stop and but every fucking time okay and then i've been with other prominent comedians who were like no i'm sorry it's not a good time okay so this is the thing this is the thing when you see the weatherman your local weatherman you go hey there's a local weatherman you know it just it's

i want to i want to make a point you have to be realistic about human nature. Jerry Seinfeld has a particular sensibility of humor and it would be very unusual for that dry kind of sarcastic skeptical wit to inhabit the body of somebody who was like hey come on I'll take a picture with you. They don't go together. I don't imagine Larry David is super friendly either when he sees people. And you're asking the impossible. You have personality types, and they produce certain art, and it's related, and enjoy the art, and leave them alone about expecting them to transform who they are. They are who they are.

Leave them the fuck alone. They don't owe you anything. I agree with that. Like, you know, Jerry says, listen, I did what, how many episodes of Seinfeld? What more do I have to give? I've done all these episodes of Seinfeld. I've done all these comedy specials. I've been performing live for 40 years. What more do I have to do for you? Just leave me alone. Seinfeld barely says boo to me when he comes in, and I never thought

twice about it. It never occurred to me. It's like, well, of course, why should he? Noam, your point is interesting, but I don't think people actually... You said that Seinfeld's act should be clue that he's not the warmest guy in the world. And maybe that seems.

Everybody's act is related to their personality is what I'm saying. But I don't know that people necessarily know this. And I remember years ago when I met David Tell and David, if anybody's act said, leave me alone, it's David Tell. And I walked up to him, Dave, I love you. And he's like, yeah, really? Whatever he said. Really? Really? This was before I was even doing comedy and it was very dismissive. And I, and I was shocked because I,

I just assumed that that he would be, you know, nice. And I didn't, but you, but that's an instance where his act should have clued me in if I were a little bit more aware that, that maybe. And you were a young comic, Dan? I was just starting. Yeah, that's understandable. And I thought, oh, that's just an act.

Be careful. Dave's going to put this into one of his bits. Really? I mean, you see him as a musician. Like the greatest drummers or bass players I ever played with they were mean fucking sons of bitches let me tell you i really don't i don't think it takes that much energy to be a little bit i don't mean mean to people like that way i mean like they had

a fire going inside in their belly and and that would come out at various times and people are you know can be more than one thing they can be like that and still be very warm and gracious at other times but you they couldn't play like that without that thing it's just seinfeld is seinfeld it's just remarkable to me that people and can you understand who should be the guy says out in the public i brought him two gift baskets from zay bars and he didn't even thank me. What? I mean, this is the, this is so out of touch with himself. Well, that's ego. That's his ego. And people that come up and say, well, I went up to Seinfeld and he didn't say hello. Well, that's, you know, that's your ego. Like why, why should he?

Well, I don't know. I don't want to feel bad saying this about the guy standing in New York because I was going to feel, I didn't feel bad. I didn't mean to attack him. I'm going to edit it out. And if he did get a thank you note, Seinfeld would tell his assistant to write the thank you note anyways. Like Seinfeld is not sitting down and taking out a thank you card and writing it for a gift basket.

Go ahead. I found the email if anyone wants to hear it. There's a fine line between acknowledging that your fans are the reason you're successful and having some gratitude and some sense that without your fans, you have nothing. And your right to your own privacy. I mean, it's a balance and it's tricky and it's not, you know, different people handle it differently.

I mean, I do think to the extent practical, you should be cordial to those without whom you would have no career at all. Right. But here's the thing. The only responsibility you have to your fans is go up there and do the best damn job you can to prep and work. That's it. After that, it's all gravy. I really do have a question though. i mean i've never understood why people go up to people and ask them for their autographs or things like that but there's an entire culture around like you know even like to make a wish foundation like people are dying to meet these you know people who to them are heroes right i'm part of the culture but they think they know that there's got to be a boundary at some you know i totally agree with you i just

think that like the type of person that's going to go up to jerry seinfeld and be like oh my god i had to tell you i love your show is not really thinking along the lines of what we're discussing right now well they should well no i understand where you put yourself in someone else's shoe yeah if you run into jerry seinfeld you it's gonna have something oh my god jerry seinfeld hey how are you hand him a whitefish salad bagel right but new New Yorkers are known to be like, oh, there's Jerry Seinfeld. Totally. But people in like, God knows, you know, Idaho are probably like, oh my God, you know,

or however they talk, who the fuck knows. So you want to hear, are you interested in the email? Yes. The Samuel thing? Yes, yes. So you want to hear, do you want to hear the original email too well you can play the clip it's super short noam is going to read an email he got a while ago about samuel's joke about a little boy being eaten by an alligator well she she wrote to me

okay you want uh okay you want blunt i'll be blunt i had the worst comedy experience in my life at your venue last night. A disgusting person. I won't call him a comedian because he's not humorous. Samuel took the stage and spent the first few minutes of his act disrespecting Lane Graves, the two-year-old child who was murdered by the alligator at Disney. He even cracked jokes about his parents.

She puts jokes in scare quotes. About his parents and his funeral. I have never in my life been so offended and repulsed by someone. I immediately left and stopped to tell your staff why. They followed me to make sure my drinks were being paid, not because I had just had to listen to a sick man trying to use a child's death as a pathetic shock value attempt at being a comedian. Furthermore, upon speaking with friends

who worked for a comedy club over 10 years, I learned that Dora Venue had to know his set prior to him taking the stage, which meant someone approved this garbage. You should be ashamed of yourselves too. The girl who was introducing all the acts simply replied to my outrage with, quote, different people are offended by different things.

Oh, really? I would expect all human beings would be offended at my, would be offended, oh, she's the typo, by a sickle making jokes about a two-year-old baby's tragic death, saying his mother probably said, later, Gator, at his funeral. I feel like the last, you know,

the Chuckles the Clown, the Chuckles the Clown, Mary Tyler Moore show here. Oh. Oh. Well, you know, I hand my- He got shown as a peanut. Well, it's true. Wait, I'm not finished.

I'm not finished. I have posted about this on every social media account I own and asked people to share it. The comedian himself replied to me to say, pretty strong act, huh? Tonight was my first time trying that one out. What a complete and utter pathetic excuse for a human. He doesn't deserve to breathe the same air or live on the same planet. Oh, my God. As that precious little boy's family.

So here, so there's my review. The other acts were fine. I really enjoyed the staff girl who introduced everyone until I received her heartless, rude response to my feedback. She can fly a kite too. Why a kite?

Yeah. Okay. So here's my answer now. Now, having said, I'm going to read the answer. I don't remember what I wrote. I hope it doesn't sound bad or or okay you cunt you're ignorant slut um please forgive how uh dear

dear so sorry please forgive how long it has taken me to return your email i'm a parent of two small children i completely understand your reaction to sam's jokes comedians generally hold nothing sacred for For them, the bizarre nature of this incident inspires a kind of gallows humor, which others may find offensive or just not funny. To be very clear, no, we don't approve of any comedian's material before they take the stage. You note in your email that this was the first time he had told the joke. So not only did we not approve it, we had no way of knowing what he was going to say since he'd never said it before. But even if I had known he was going to say it, I have to tell you, I would not have intervened.

I cannot censor the artists who appear at my venue. Believe me, sometimes I'd like to, but I can't. You simply can't imagine the resentment that I would engender if I were to tell a Louis C.K. who has done jokes about pedophilia that were controversial or any other comedian what they can or can't say. Stand-up comedy by nature lives close to the line. What one person considers thought-provoking, another considers irreverently funny, and another considers unacceptably offensive. It is simply impossible to lay down an objective standard that everyone could agree on. It's the reason the First Amendment

is interpreted so broadly. It's virtually impossible to decide what speech is acceptable and what can be forbidden. In the end, it would all become about not offending me and my particular sensibilities. As a club owner, all I can do is stop booking a comedian if they are not doing well with the audience, and that determination can't be made after any one set that did or did not go well. All the comedians have bad sets and almost all offend someone at some time in their careers. Having said all that, it's no pleasure for me that you left unhappy. If there's anything I can do, perhaps refund your cover charges or invite you back to a better show. I put better in quotes as my guests, just say the word.

I hope this has been helpful to you in some way, sincerely, blah, blah, blah. That was my answer. That's a great response. That's a good response. Now, did you hear back from her? I did, but I don't remember what she wrote, but the point is I didn't back down. I didn't back down at all. I thought that was great. But the point is, I didn't back down. I didn't back down at all. I thought that was great. I mean, that separates Noam from probably every other club owner. Can you imagine any

other club owner having the eloquence? No, it's always the customer's always right. Customer's always right. To pen fonts like that, it'd be very... Well, Noam is also a lawyer, and he's very smart. Because the reason Noam's an accidental club owner people with noam's pedigree generally don't become comedy club owners and but getting back to the first amendment it only protects us from government uh prosecution yeah but it's still it's still valid as an analogy for right many things are we right i'm just saying that uh if

someone doesn't like a two year old getting eaten by an alligator that that shit's funny now but i will say that i i mean no you were sympathetic to somebody being upset by that joke of course i mean that's pretty strong stuff a little boy being eaten by an alligator and i you know i i don't blame the woman for being upset i couldn't yeah but but she went on and on. Like, everybody else probably laughed or they didn't. She was the only one that got up and walked out. You know, I think she would. I would never laugh at her face and dismiss her.

But here's the thing. No, I would try to understand her. But also, I think Noam struck just the right balance. I get that you're upset, but I can't censor my comic. But it's also like, you can get up and walk out just like you can change the channel just like you can turn off the radio exactly that other person should never be able to work again and as far as a comedy seller goes if you go to know them you'll get your money back and i right and also i send all my sets to Noam and Esty. They're all handwritten.

And I have notes the minute I walk in. All right. This is the fucking stupidest thing in the world. All right. I was hoping to get to Kenosha, but that's such a big topic. We'll talk about it probably. We got another 10 minutes. Go ahead.

What's Kenosha? It's in Wisconsin. Oh, okay. Oh oh that's shooting yes yes is this where we're going to tag the show with the shooting i think we should leave that for another episode this has been a really good tight episode i think yeah i can't with that too soon so we don't know the facts have any the facts are changing by the day let's let's talk about it when we know everything okay have you already talked about jeff ross well we could but okay i just got asked i just got interviewed about my book for page six and then she asked me about that yeah okay what did she ask you just like

all the canceled stuff like what do you think of jeff ross what do you think of ellen it's like i want to just sell my book. I don't want to talk about, you know, Jeff Ross. Judy, you have to be prepared for this. You've done PR before. I know, I know, I know, I know. And it's a book about canceling. Yeah.

Ellen, do you have anything in particular you wanted to say about Jeff Ross? No, no, I just, I, you know, first of all, thanks, Noam, after months of harassing him, I'm finally invited to this podcast and I really appreciate it. Alan, I want to tell you something. Perry, I will back up. I am in such a dark place.

I get it. That's why I don't blame you at all. It is not personal. I know it's not. I know it's not. I'm just glad I'm on. And I miss like, you know, the thing with Jeff Ross or Ellen, this is what I miss about the table, hearing people's opinions and people talking about, I'm not trying to spotlight any one person and Noam, you know, I got, you know,

I contacted you. I didn't hear from you from a couple of months. And I thought to myself, well, Noam is raising three young children and, you know, he has a business and he's got to be going a little bit nuts. So I'm going to leave him alone. Okay. But last time I did the podcast, Noam was like, I fucking hate this podcast. I'm not doing it anymore. And now. I do Perry Perry. I quit it every day. And I want to thank Judy, by the way.

So when the, when the, when the thing with Louie happened, I didn't, I didn't know who my friends would be. And I didn't expect, I was surprised that Judy was one of the first people, not to come to Louis' side, but to come to the Comedy Cellar's side. And she even agreed to co-host a podcast that we did early on where we had uh female staff members discussing how they felt about it whether they felt unsafe you know at the club and whatever it was and she having a a prominent female lgbtq i think that was all the letters at the time. Pie sign, pie sign. D-Y-K-E. At the time,

just say that she thought that what I was doing was not on the face of it indefensible. That was very important to the club at the time. It really was. I meant it. That's why I love comedians.

Certainly the atmosphere your dad started and you have enhanced and continued along with Esty and the staff, that we care about each other, even if we disagree. It's true. And walking in there, I've said this on a number of interviews, it literally is like, I'm home. I'm home. That's what it feels like like even if i have a shit day even if i'm like anxious or depressed to walk in there it's i'm telling it's you open that curtain the last time i was at the comedy cellar before the pandemic i flew into new york i shot an episode of Billions. Okay, why do you have to?

And then that night, I went to the club and I was there late. I wasn't getting my avails and Anesti said, I'm sorry, no one's canceled. So I went over to the Village Underground and I watched the show. It was so goddamn funny. It was, and you're in a different head when you're not

going on, you're relaxed and so great to be here. Which speaks to Seinfeld being in his head, right. Comedy club. And then I flew back here. I went to Hermosa comedy. I did three spots on a Saturday and then that was it. I haven't worked since then and I can't go back to the cellar. Right. Go back to Hermosa, which is my home out here and uh it's it's been really tough but we're gonna get through this and New York New York it's all it's all gonna come back it is I really really really believe that it is going to come

back um I think there is no way that it's not oh big time it's gonna come back i mean comedy is gonna be bigger than i mean because people really i'm doing outdoor shows here you you can't i'm sold out every every show they are dying to laugh dying um noam can you pull up the artwork that I sent you, please? Judy's book? Yeah. She hasn't. I know, but you can see it better when you pull it up.

Why? I mean. I sent it to you in chat. Oh, in chat. I'm sorry. Okay, yes. I'll pull that up right now to download it.

And then I. Oh, Jesus. Open file. Let me tell you where I'm appearing next. it. And then I open file. Let me tell you where I'm appearing next. I'm going to go down my building, get the mail, and bring it back to the apartment. Oh, well, I don't know if you heard about the

Postal Service. That's another podcast. Another podcast. When they came... There it is. Oh, yay! Wait, I want to take a picture for my... It's very nice.

No, I read the foreword today and most of the first chapter. I think you'll love it. I mean, it really is everything we said. The trouble is, I can hear your voice when I'm reading the book. I did. I know. And I did do the audio book. So just lower the volume. Oh my God. By the way, by the way, you've got to read Woody Allen's book. Anybody out there? Oh, I've heard. It is fantastic.

Okay. I'm writing that down. I've also heard that. I'm sorry. I see your mouth moving down i don't hear you i also heard that it's very convincing um defense of himself and his sexual uh accusations although i was kind of thinking he did it but i have to see that's the thing i read the i read the robert whitey interview which spells it out there and his son moses was in the house when it allegedly happened. He's been writing about it for years. Nobody brings that up since the hashtag me too movement. No one has brought that up.

And he was in the house and Ronan Farrow was four. So he has no idea. No. Yeah. Anyways, it's a great read. It's, it's,

it's a fun read. I can't wait. I love, I have to also say enjoying Mary Trump's book. Really? Yeah. It's just so psychological. I love it.

It's so psychological. Are you learning anything new about it? No. Well, I have a house here, and she lived across the lawn here. Where do you have a house? In Provincetown, Massachusetts, on Cape Cod. Very gay area up there. My sister always says that. Watch out for the gays. the lawn here where do you have a house in Provincetown Massachusetts on Cape Cod very gay area up there that my sister always says that watch out for the gays would that be uh would

that be the fag capital of the world oh that's so you're referring to the uh the uh the baseball announcer oh right um I canceled what do you think about that, Judy? I really, I don't like the word F. The F. No, no. I mean, but ask a black gay guy, which is worse, the F word or the N word? Yeah, true. I don't think it's the Capitol here. Maybe. I don't know. There's a lot of letters. Do you think the baseball announcer should have been fired? You're saying that? I mean, he said it off the air and it was a vile thing to say. Yes, that's who he is. What was vile to say? He said he

referred to Kansas City, I believe, as the F capital of the world. The reason he should have been fired is because there's no way Kansas City is the F capital. Exactly. How old is he? In his 40s, I would say. There's no way Kansas City is the F capital. One second. Exactly. How old is he? In his 40s, I would say.

There's no excuse for that. No, no, Judy, let's be honest now. When I was a kid, good, liberal, non-bigot people. Oh, I was a band fag. I used to call myself a band fag. Would say fag. And forever. would say fag and um forever well and and like my father would say to jonathan the gay waiter about the other is he a fag and jonathan yeah he's a fat like it was it was and i know but that was yes i agree that was a different time i have that it's a different time but if my father were alive

among his friends i don't think and there was nobody who was more pro-gay ahead of his time than my father was i'm no question you would have a hard time getting him not to say fag uh among people he trusted right who understood him and knew that he wasn't coming from a bad place so right context intent nuance so i don't know what this guy said or what he meant by it, but that, you know, that is not, there was a time when that was not the N word. It just wasn't. And, and you know, you can, I mean, the intent is everything. Yeah. I mean, come on. Yeah. The tone of his voice did sound a little harsh, but I can't,

I'm not a mind reader. I mean, you're not, he sounded to me. No, I do my best. He sounded to me like it was a bit harsh harsh his tone of voice made it sound like he had some you know homophobic uh all right it could have been a joke it's like yeah you know that place the f capital of the world i can't say that for certain we're living in a world where okay if he was if he was announcing a drag contest, maybe he could have gotten away with it, but not a fucking... Do you know the fucking things that Al Sharpton has said,

and he has a show on MSNBC? Jesse Jackson called Manhattan, Hymie Town. Hymie Town, yeah. I mean, come on now. And I don't care that they said those things that Sharpton talked about. You know what it is? I got it. No, Black guys get all the breaks, don't they?

Over history, black people have just gotten away with murder. Well, Alan, that's not the point, is it? That's really not the point. That's my point. We understand where the anger comes from from Hymie Town. I'm not saying we should cancel Jesse Jackson, but you're right.

People have said things that are pretty bad, black and white, and they haven't been canceled. Yeah, that's true. I'm not saying we should cancel Jesse Jackson. Oh, you're right. People have said things that are pretty bad, black and white, and they haven't been canceled. Yeah, that's true. I agree. I'm saying that. I mean, I, I, I, I hate that that black examples come to my mind and maybe that says something about society. Not me like Joy Reed. I mean, Joy Reed tweeted these horrible things, not, not like, like the most horrible things about homosexuals. Then she claimed she was hacked.

Then she asked the FBI to invest. I mean, you're like just piling on the ridiculousness. Her kid is LGBT. And nothing happened to her. So I don't know anything about this sportscaster. Maybe he should, maybe it was beyond the ugly thing. I just, every time one of these things happen, I stop and ask myself, well, okay,

is this a consistent principle that I'm, that I'm, that I'm back? I see your point. And very quick, I say to myself, no, it's not. I'll forget this. We think like blackface. Well, Megyn Kelly was terrible, but of course, Justin Trudeau can do it. And Jimmy Kimmel did it.

And Joni Mitchell did it. But if this Republican did it, it's not okay. And the governor of Virginia- Ed Danson did it. Ed Danson. The governor of Virginia does it literally like minstrel blackface with a KKK guy next to him. So like, now, but now if this sports cat,

but some woman at a Washington Post a at a washington post reporters party did it to make fun of megan kelly recently and she got fired i'm like well no she shouldn't get fired because i mean well that's a dumb thing to do though she should get fired it was a dumb thing to do and i don't want people working here that are that stupid and it's no i don't agree with that level well you know what we've all know what? We've all done dumb things. We've all done dumb things. Alan, God forbid I had your whole career on video somewhere. I could find something.

Yeah, but you know why? I'm a live performer, so you don't. Well, so, I mean, and nobody should take that as me defending somebody calling somebody a slur, ethnic slur, racial slur. I'm just saying, come on now. Right. You know, take care of the people at your fucking Thanksgiving dinner who do the same thing before you start lashing out at strangers. All right. We all have people we know. We don't throw

them out of our lives. We say, no, dude, I wish you wouldn't talk that way. You know, but what? Come on now. Who are we kidding? Who are we kidding? But we want this guy fired. I know nobody in my life who would ever say anything like that. And if I did, I would never talk to them again. Bullshit. Come on now. That's my point. This has been an hour and a half with Noam Dorman.

Am I wrong? Wait, is this going to be my meditation tape for tomorrow morning? Just tell me I'm wrong. No, I don't, I agree with you. You're wrong. I'm not wrong. I'm just kidding. It's true.

It is true. There's so many fucking double standards here. I was just reading about or saw a documentary on Roy Cohn who used to have a house. Oh, I'm watching that. I fell asleep and I have to watch the end of it. Oh, my God. It's fantastic. He was a character, right?

Can we get Mary Trump on the show? I doubt it. You can ask. She's recording a book. We can certainly try. Well, listen, people who write books are so whores. They're whores for attention. Anybody who has a book out is such a whore for an attention. What?

Oh, wait. I'm getting dizzy. I have to go. I've got to hang up. Let's wrap it up. Okay. I love you, Judy. I love you, Alan Havey. Where can everybody find you? Me?

Yeah. Alanhavey.com. Okay. Judy? I'm at J-E-W-D-Y-G-O-L-D Judy Gold on Twitter and Instagram.-O-L-D Judy Gold On Twitter and Instagram And then my But my website

Is just regular Judy Gold And if you see Judy Eating at the Olive Tree Feel free Just sit down next to her And talk to her Yeah sit next to her I love talking to people

I love it Buy her book On wherever books are sold Wherever books are sold But if you go to my website And you're really like very politically correct, there's all links to like indie book places and Amazon or whatever. Will you sign a book for someone if they request it?

Yes. Okay. That's a great way to sell books. My penis. I will sign a book. I'm offended. I'm offended. I got to go.

I'm sorry. You got to go. I'm offended. You could go to Barnes and Nobles and do readings, I guess, which is a good place. Which is like people do to sell books, but that can't happen. Well, I just dip my penis in the ink and then I can, yeah.

Okay, goodnight everybody. Goodnight. Thank you, Norm. Thank you, Norm. Thank you. He's safe. Bye-bye, everybody. You can email us at podcast.comedyseller.com and follow us on instagram at live from the table good night