The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Marina Franklin and Keith Robinson

Episode Date: August 30, 2019

Marina Franklin and Keith Robinson

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. We're here at the back table of the Comedy Cellar. We haven't been at this table for a while. But now that the Comedy Central Show this week at the Comedy Cellar is on hiatus, we have our table back. Hiatus, of course, means it's coming back. Well, I don't know.

It's on hiatus or it's canceled, but we're no longer shooting it. So this week we have, of course, as always, my dear friend, Mr. Dan Natterman. Hey, Dan. How do you do? Good to be back. Good to be working with Keith again on a podcast. Our longtime listeners will know that he was unkind to me the last time,

but I take him for who he is. Very good to hear that. I'm sure it'll happen. I'm sure the old magic will come back. We have, oh yeah, so Keith Robinson is a comic and actor. His multiple television film appearances including The Chappelle Show,

Crashing, and Trainwreck. His one-hour special, Back of the Bus Funny, was produced by Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart calls Keith his mentor. He may be seen regularly at the Comedy Cellar. Oh, my gosh, she does these long videos.

Keith is also co-host of the popular podcast Three Girls, One Keith with Amy Schumer, Rachel Feinstein, and Bridget Everett. And they just got back from Martha's Vineyard. Wait a minute, I wrote that part. Because Perrielle told me to add something about Three Girls, One Keith.

They just got back from Martha's Vineyard where they recorded a week's worth of episodes with the rich and famous. Marina Franklin is a comedian, actor, and writer who's performed at comedy venues and festivals around the world. Her numerous credits include Stephen Colbert's Late Show, HBO's Crashing,

and the hit movie Trainwreck. Wasn't that the same credits as... Her first stand-up special, Back of the... No. Single Black Female is available now via Comedy Dynamics Network.

On all platforms, actually. She may be seen regularly at the Comedy Channel, on all platforms. Yeah, just go to marinafranklin.com. Just go to me. Wasn't there another introduction there now?

Another introduction? I'm sorry. Conan O'Brien. Noam Dorman, free speech advocate and political gadfly. Noam Dorman is the owner of the world's famous comedy zone, Greenwich Village. His upcoming book, Excluded, The War Against Asian Americans at Elite University, and Why It Matters, will be available this fall at amazon.com. Oh, thank you, Dan. I got, you got a book. No, I just made that up because no one's obsessed with that topic.

I am. I have a lot to say about it still. All right. So listen, so just my first question is who, who were the rich and famous at Amy's podcast? Amy's podcast, John Kerry. The guy ran for president, John? John Kerry did. I thought you said Mariah's podcast, John Kerry. The guy ran for president? John Kerry did. I thought you said Mariah Carey. John Kerry. Jim Carrey, John Kerry, Mariah Carey.

John Kerry. John Kerry. Yeah, the one who did the Rand deal and all that. Yeah, was that interesting? Yeah. Listen to him, yes. Yeah? He hates Trump like everybody.

Did you ask him any challenging questions? No. No. They didn't want us on there. They didn't want us on there. Yeah, so Amy interviewed him herself. Who did you get to meet? They had Bill Murray on there. You met Bill Murray?

No, all the big guys, they said, keep Keith out of there. You didn't get to interview Bill Murray? No, I wanted to. Yeah, he would have liked you. Why'd they keep you from Bill Murray? They kept me from Bill Murray. You didn't get to interview Bill Murray? No. I wanted to. Yeah, he would have liked you. Why'd they keep you from Bill Murray? They kept me from Bill Murray. I didn't like it. I don't blame you.

I don't know if I'm supposed to even be saying this. Well, the podcast is three girls and one Keith. You can't have three girls and one Keith without the Keith part. You got to have the Keith part. No, we weren't there. We got there late. Well, it was weird. I can't wait.

Racist because it's still coming out. So erase this part. Somehow, Keith was deemed just too risky to me. It's kind of like my wife treats me that way, too. Certain people, she won't risk me talking to, but she knows I might say the wrong thing. Oh, absolutely, you're going to say the wrong thing. But to Bill Murray, you wouldn't think... Yeah,

Bill Murray. I like Chevy Chase better than Bill Murray. Ah, yeah. You probably would say something like that. I've been joined by Greg Rogel. So Marina, you have a new comedy special coming out. It's one hour special. It was released July 23rd and it's on all special. It was released July 23rd.

And it's on all platforms. It was through Comedy Dynamics. They produced it. Is that Brian Volksweiss? Yes. Yeah. I like him a lot. Oh, okay. He did it. Okay. Read the tea leaves.

No, that's not true. He was the one who did it. He was the one that I knew years ago from the Boston Comedy Club. And he approached me about doing it when no one else was. And I took the opportunity to do it. You might as well get it done. Actually, Keith also, just so you shut up, because I know you're about to jump in. So if I don't compliment you, Keith, you're going to jump in. But it is true.

Keith actually got on me about putting out an hour and not waiting anymore. Yeah. And so because I this was my first hour and it's been way too long. So when you say all platforms, what does that mean? When I say all platforms, I mean like Apple TV, Amazon Prime, Google Play, On Demand, Satellite. So you can get it pretty much anywhere. You don't have to just go to like one network. Anywhere that you can stream movies and stuff like that. But I'm saying, you know, people don't think like that. Well, that's why I say MarinaFranklin.com because if you would let me be me for a second, Keith.

I'm just trying to tell you. Did I say Volksweis? It's probably Volkweis, right? Volkweis, yeah. If you say you get on all platforms, you know. No, because. Go to Amazon.com and start playing. That's what you do.

Go to Amazon. Why do you have us on together? I'm never going to be able to get a word in. I'm not sure why either. No, I'm kidding. No, why either one of us are here. I'm kidding. Well, the thing is, it's easier just to go to my website because it's the first page you go to.

You can click all of those links there. For people that are streaming challenged, just go to marinafranklin.com. Does everybody still have a website? Mine has been abandoned, and I think it's expired. A lot of people go to my website. I have a newsletter, and I have people come to my shows through that website. So it's a smart thing to do. So this is what I'm going to do.

Dan has a list here, and these are good. I'm not trying to pass over this. But right before, so Marina has a podcast. What's the name of the podcast? It's called Friends Like Us. Friends Like Us. And it's a black-centric, people of color-centric podcast. It's a podcast that features...

Watch how you say that. I don't know what the right word... Afrocentric? No, no, no. It's a podcast that features women of color talking about hot topics, and once a month we'll have a guy or a white... I didn't mean color by the C. You'll have a white...

You have a white on? Once a month we'll have a white on, like a period. Just once a month. You have a white on? Once a month, we'll have a white on, like a period. Just once a month. White Boy Wednesday. So it's a people of color-centric podcast. Women of color-centric podcast. Women of color. But you had our friend Coleman Hughes on.

He was our guy for the month. So Coleman is a guy. He's a friend of ours and a friend of the place. And he's a student at Columbia University. And he spoke at Congress a few weeks ago where he opposed some aspects of reparations. He didn't actually oppose all reparations. And he got a lot of flack on Twitter and the Internet and whatever it is. From who?

From. The ADOS. Yeah, from. From what? Not from the whites. I don't know. From the American descendant of slave

community. But not only. So then Marina wanted to have him on the podcast and Marina lamented, I hope I can say this, that many of the

people close to her refused to go on this podcast with her including people who were in education. Professors at Columbia. Professors at Columbia who would ostensibly be his teachers.

They actually said to me they did not want to come on the podcast because it would validate what he was saying and it would erase away all of the work that they've done. And so they did not want to associate themselves with him on my podcast. And what's very important about this conversation, in case anybody's already jumping ahead, is that this is not about, to me, this has nothing to do with the issue of reparations. Like, as a Jewish person, I can totally imagine all the analogous issues, Holocaust denial, anti-Semitism,

you name all the various issues which Jews, how Israel began whether the Palestinians were chased out of the country all the things which are important to Jews along the whole spectrum. It would never even enter my mind that I wouldn't have a conversation with somebody

about any of these issues. And this is a new attitude of I think left wing politics. I don't think the girl is left-wing now, is she? Yes, she is. She's left-wing. Well, this is what got Keith Hart under the collar last time,

is your belief, and I share it, but to an extent, not entirely, that the left-wing is more repressive of free speech than the right wing. Yeah, I believe they're—I think that anybody—it's like almost taking a—it's like a kid's game. Like being a blood or a crip or this or that. It's right. Whatever is right is right. Whatever wrong is wrong. That's what I believe. But the whole notion that a point of view makes me feel unsafe or is violent in and of itself,

this is a very new, it's not even liberal. It's like woke progressive. Well, the reason... So Sabrina, to her credit, she had Coleman on, I think, by herself, and I want to hear about it. So the reason that I wanted to have him on, because previous to that podcast, on that episode that I wanted to have him on because previous to that podcast on that episode that I had before he was on, people were telling me they may have agreed with points that he made, but they just didn't want him to do that in front of white

people. They felt like he was speaking on our behalf and they didn't like the words that he was saying on our behalf. And to Keith's credit, he actually made a very valid point about this is just not a time where we're fucking around. Can I curse? Yeah, curse. Say it again.

One more time. This is just not a time where we're fucking around. So for Coleman to go up in front of Congress and say these things hit people really hard, and so that's why they came at him, specifically because you don't do that in front of company. The Jews have that same attitude. I, I, I agree. While I agree with that, I still felt like it was I think people misunderstood what that was going on in front of Congress was supposed to be about having the conversation.

Am I right or am I wrong? Because you also had the other side. And so that was what it was for. The other side is the white man's side. Well, the other side was kind of high CC code. There was actually a black man, as Coleman pointed out, who was completely against reparations, which Coleman did not agree with. So he felt like the fact that he was there.

Was he a right-leaning guy? No, it wasn't him. The football player. I can't remember his name now. Michael Strahan? No, an old dude, football player. I don't know his name now. Michael Strahan? No, an old dude football player. I don't know. I don't know football.

You don't know black belts? No, it wasn't Jim Brown. Jesus, why can't I remember that? I'll tell you right now. But go ahead. Talk it out. Well, there was also Ta-Nehisi Coates who presented the other side the side in favor of reparations. There were eight people total.

We're only focusing on the two. Those are the only two I saw. That's part of the problem is those are the only two you saw, and those are the only two that was pointed out in the press. The thing is it was a real conversation with eight people in Congress, and that's what Coleman actually was able to get out on my podcast, which a lot of people didn't understand, is the fullness of that conversation, the nuance of that conversation.

That's why I wanted to have him there. And there were two people on my podcast who absolutely did not agree. Greg Revelle's indicating that Josh Johnson just showed up. You know what? Should I continue talking? Yes. No one's listening to us. I'm listening. I'm listening

to every word you're saying. I'm just looking up the name of the guy. I just felt like it was a very good dialogue on our podcast where it dispelled some of the myths that people had about what Coleman said, about what actually the Congress hearing was about, and what happened. It was probably one of my best episodes that I've had yet just because it was an even conversation with people who disagreed with him but still

were able to talk it out. Respectfully. Respectfully. Like adults. Well, we here at the Comedy Cellar Podcast are dear friends of Coleman. He's done our show several times. Anyway. You're nodding out? Yeah, what's your point? My point is we love

Coleman here. I just think that... You want Josh to sit down for a second? Yes. Come sit down, Josh. Get this other white guy out of here. Well, I don't want it to be like, oh, Josh, we're inviting him because he's a black guy. That is why we're inviting him.

That's exactly why you invited him. He's a dear friend of the podcast. No, we're talking about a topic that happens to be black. We're talking about the issue of Marina's podcast and having dissent within the black community. It was a handle like adults, which I did not find the reaction of him was treated fairly. You don't you don't shame people like that just because they have a difference in opinion and they want to discuss something, which was what the hearing was about. Well, you know, see, there's not just COVID.

Everybody's reactionary anyway, who got the same kind of blast as Jay-Z. Right, and we talked about that, too. Yeah, when he came on with Goodell yapping and all comfortable, hands behind his back, leaning back like he was handsome. And it's like, come on, man. You're not Idris Elba. Yeah, I do. There is more to that conversation that's coming out now.

I just had to get my laugh. Let me get my laugh first. And then you. It was really funny. But the thing is, did you see the other things that he said, which was how many of you known or done what I've done in the past year? Oh, Jay-Z said that? Yeah.

He was arrogant. Well, I'm not familiar with this Jay-Z controversy. Oh. No, I know this Jay-Z controversy. No, I know who Jay-Z is. It's Michael Strahan. Some sort of hip-hop artist. But he got the same thing that Coleman Hughes got. In other words, it wasn't about black. It's like, you can lose your

blackness in a minute if you don't watch how you monitor what you say, what you do. Even on this conversation, I got to remain black. Yeah. It sounds like a lot of pressure. You're doing a good job of it, by the way. You haven't had me fooled for a second.

Exactly. But, you know, with Coleman, they got on him because all he heard is no reparations. That's all he heard. They didn't hear anything else but that. And people, you know, people get on you for that. I don't want to hear nobody say, I don't want no reparations. Just in a nutshell, what Coleman's point was, my impression of his point was that he thought that anybody who lived through Jim Crow, and maybe redlining, but definitely Jim Crow, should get reparations.

The actual people who were alive and suffered that. He felt that all the other problems should be treated as our obligations. Pragmatically. As a country to its citizens, such that you don't start, if you have 10 black kids who are struggling because of the obstacles there are to being black in America, you shouldn't have to give them a DNA test and say, well, you four kids over here, actually, you're Haitian and came in the 1900s, so you don't get this special help that we want to give out. There's a genetic test for this.

He objected to that, and he felt that people who, he said that and he talked about over incarceration of black people. He talked about a lot of issues important to the community that he feels strongly about. He said structurally we need to deal with a lot of things. We need to deal with incarceration. We need to deal with healthcare in the black community.

We need to deal with schools in the black community and on my podcast he said in a pragmatic, he did not feel and this is where the debate is, right? He did not feel if you pair those things with reparation, it'll get done, which is where John Laster, who's been on your podcast, disagreed. It's like, well, are you saying we have to make white people happy in order to get things done? Unfortunately, in America, you do, yes. No, I don't think that. The other point is that no.

That would be wrong. Once you put an actual amount on it, the temptation to say, okay, you've got your check. We're done here. That's kind of a theory reparation. I owe you a thousand. Here's your thousand.

Now stop your belly aching. That's a real risk of that. Nobody else, everybody, the Jewish folk got their reparations. Am I right? Only the people who were actually the victims of the Holocaust. I didn't get it. See, y'all didn't have to deal with all that in the 70s,

straight through the 80s systemically and all that. No. Black folks had to go straight through everything. Yeah, absolutely. You know, constantly continue. I think the late, great Patrice O'Neill had a best thing for reparations. had to go straight through everything. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it constantly continued. I think the late, great Patrice O'Neill had a best thing for reparations. What was it?

He said, we pay no taxes for five years. Fine. So let's say that's... Five years, no taxes. I'm all for that. But then what? What happens after that five years?

I'm gathering my money. So in other words, Kevin Hart gets a lot more reparations than you do. So what? Because he's paying a lot less. Stop trying to white this thing out. It doesn't sound very equitable. Don't try to turn me against Kevin Hart. The white man always does it. See that? The white man does it, especially the...

Did you see that? So then, after five years, if black people are still struggling. No, no, no. Don't look at it like that. Don't look at it like that. You have to. Now you got, we just said five years, whatever. We'll debate the time period.

But five years is pretty good with no taxes. Yeah. That's damn good. What about house insurance? It's a highly regressive form of reparations, as I said. You might have yourself a deal here. Also, this is working for you. It is working for me.

So this can be on the table of Congress, right? Can we shake on it? No. More money in your pocket? Do you think that it's the best idea to give people huge sums of money? I don't know what the sum would be. That's racist. Well, no, that goes for anybody. They give you people. I know what you're saying.

You know what you're going to use it for. If your goal is to address certain deficiencies or certain discrimination, it may not be the best idea to give somebody who's not used to having a large sum of money a large sum of money. You're saying we don't know how to deal with money? I'm saying nobody knows how to deal with money. When you get it in your life. Lottery winners, just to finish this thought, often go broke in five years. That's not a lottery.

Not paying taxes is not a lottery. Can you let that jump in? Yeah, no, I agree. I just think that if it is, like, let's say it is a large sum of money packaged out and we managed to find everyone who exactly was wronged and we get that whole thing out of the way, there's still the problem of, like, getting whatever the money, let's just say it's like $125,000 for the point we're making right now.

Getting $125,000 when you're 20 versus when right now, getting $125,000 when you're 20 versus when you're 60 versus when you're 40, you're at different places in life. You know different things about money. Then it does become a thing down to the individual where at least a program or a specific mandate kind of is able to handle everyone in a way that they can help themselves, whereas just cash is like, oh, all right, all right. I mean, everyone's going to do their best, I guess. He wants his cash, Keith. I want my money, damn right.

Can we talk about that block of cheese they gave us years ago? What was that? That was supposed to be. Ronald Reagan gave a big block of cheese. And what was that supposed to solve? That's an interesting point. My roommate had that at Penn. He had a block of cheese?

In the fridge, and I didn't know what it was. Is it like U.S. Department of Agriculture cheese? Is this true? This is true, yes. My grandma had that cheese. Big, giant block of cheese. That cheese was good, too. I feel like that cheese made us superheroes.

I'm not going to lie. Everyone that was on that cheese got real good at football, got real good at just running and flying through the air. Are you saying the government might do experiments on black people without them knowing about it? I'm just throwing it out. Tuskegee happened. Maybe that cheese thing is not that far off. That new chicken sandwich

from Popeye's, there's something wrong with that sandwich. I heard there's a big controversy about that. Well, they're just trying to say that Popeye's chicken is better than the Chick-fil-A, but they're both horrible for you. It's killing all of us. Can I just say one thing about Coleman

before we leave Coleman? Sure. I know him very, very well, and what hurts me about the way he's treated is that I know, first of all, how deeply he cares

about the welfare of his people. He is not even a little bit some sort of Uncle Tom. You know, we know there are people like that. He is not even a little bit some sort of Uncle Tom. You know, we know there are people like that. He's not like that. You don't get to judge that. Okay, you're being keen, but I'm telling you,

I know, I see where his concerns are. And he's also sweet as can be. So when he, you know, he got a lot of abuse for all this stuff. His parents were threatened.

And he was on a talk show where the guy was trying to like feed him bad things to say about Ta-Nehisi Coates. And Coleman stopped him right now. He says, no, no, no. He says, I don't attribute bad motivations

to the people I disagree with. Ta-Nehisi Coates is a very, very thorough thinker. He's just decent from beginning to end, as opposed to who's also been on this show and is kind of a friend of the show, but I can't help it. Brett Stevens had that thing now

where somebody called him a bed bug and he called up the guy and he got really mad about it and it's all over the news. Coleman was called way, way, way, way worse than that. And he didn't come at anybody, and he didn't shoot back on Twitter, and he didn't write anybody nasty emails. And he's only 22 years old, you know?

He's, yeah, well, 24. 24 years old. You got to realize, though, this is real, that Coleman ain't getting nothing that everybody else. Jay-Z got the worst of it. With a billion dollars in the bank. But Jay-Z's older. No, but you can be called a coon any minute, any second, for anything.

By the way, I know I'm referenced Uncle Tom. I don't know if anyone's ever read Uncle Tom's Cabin. Oh, no. The character Uncle Tom refused to give the location of escaped slaves and was tortured to death. So why they call sellouts Uncle Toms, I don't know, but that has become the word that is used. Well, Coleman did bring up on the episode that that term should only have been used during that time. And I replied to him, we are going back to similar times. That's why it's being used a lot.

A lot. It's a time when we're very divisive. Black churches are being burned down. White supremacy is on a high. They're threatening our lives. Well, white supremacy, I don't know if it's on a high. No, it is on a high.

It is on a high. That's not debatable. So the thing is, is black people are aware of this, and they're angry. We told Dan again. See, Dan, he's itching again. I believe it is debatable, but whatever. What is debatable?

It's certainly a problem that's on our radar and that we all need to worry about. I'm not trying to. Whether it's on a high, you we all need to worry about. I'm not trying to. Whether it's on a high, you're saying. I'm sorry. Only when it affects your life, then it's on a high. I should rephrase that. No, that's not a nice thing to say. That's not what I meant at all.

There was a recent shooting. We're not trying to be nice on this podcast, no. There's statistics that suggest anti-Semitism is on a high. I'm willing to debate that as well. I want to see the figures. There's statistics that suggest anti-Semitism is on a high. I'm willing to debate that as well. When Obama was president, that's all Dan Coats, the FBI guy, said is on a high. When Obama was president, we had the church in Charleston shot up. It's not, you know, these things. By the way, Obama agrees with what Coleman was saying.

He actually had said the same thing. That? About reparations. Oh, I know. I know that. Yeah. So it's just interesting also, I just want to bring up this point,

that the other black man on that hearing who completely negated reparations. Burgess Owens. Oh, thank you. Is anyone talking about him? Has anyone called him an Uncle Tom? Has anyone threatened his life? No, because they...

Now, Keith, where are you going? Because... I want to talk about Chappelle's show. I want to talk about Chappelle's... Come on, Dante. So... What? Sit down, Dante.

This is Dante Nero. We've got to move on past this subject. So sit down, Keith. No, stay, Dante. So Chappelle's Netflix special, Sticks and Stones, is generating controversy, in particular for his jokes about transgender people. And also he doesn't think that Michael Jackson was molested

because Macaulay Culkin said Michael never molested him. My sister loved that special. Have you seen it? Yeah, it was great. I didn't see it, but my sister was like... I went to see it on Broadway. My sister said it was the best special because it was like first time not seeing a comic who is like controlled by the media and advertising.

Yeah. I saw it on Broadway. I saw it on Broadway. It was great. So, yeah, I thought it was terrific. And, you know, there's stuff that he says when he's expressing his opinion that I don't agree with. What about Michael Jackson being...

Oh, that's what... Yeah, I think those kids are telling the truth. And I think it's ballsy to say those kids are full of shit. But I'm just so happy he's doing it. Because he can kind of get away with it. And he's puncturing this idea that people can't say, say whatever the fuck you think, Dave. I don't care.

Like, what is the big deal? Well, welcome to normalcy. Yeah. If you want to be a part of a normal situation, everybody gets fucked with. Transgender, whoever. You want in? That's being in. He didn't really say anything against transgender that I recall other than just he thinks that a person who's in the body

of somebody else is a funny idea. It's inherently funny. That's really all he said and then he did something about it. What if he were Chinese? There have been enough Hollywood movies where somebody wakes up as the wrong sex and we all laugh at it. Soul man and even white girls with the Wayans brothers.

Movies where a woman wakes up as a man. There's all sorts of permutations. Tom Hanks wakes up as a grown man, but he was a little kid. I mean, the idea of being in a body that's not your own is at the very least provocative and to a lot of people, very funny.

So what do you think the reason that transgender community was upset? Well, first of all, I don't know that they were upset. Bloggers were upset. I know that. Right now, you'll have ten tweets and the paper will cover it as

oh, there was lots of... One tweet. And it could be a tweet with the egg where somebody has ten followers and they just tweeted that and then it blows out of proportion because they're anonymous half the time anyway. There is really no way to judge it.

We went through it here with the Louis thing. The country was on fire. They still, every time Louis shows up, people get upset. But most of the people here didn't get upset. The people on the Twitter sphere got upset. The people in the audience were thrilled to see him in general with a couple of exceptions. After that first night after Twitter,

I expected to come in here and see the place empty. Like, I was sure it was going to be empty. Well, my thing is, as long as the comics who tell jokes don't get upset, that's when I get upset. When I see other comics, like, you shouldn't say that. I think there's too many comics right now, and that's the problem.

We have comics who aren't really comedians. We have actors now. There's just as many actors doing comedy now. And so you have people who don't have a comic soul or spirit doing comedy who are making these arguments against comedy. Yeah, but that's what I don't like. That's, you know, regular. Well, we know who the comics are and who the comics are not. Well, you think you do. Well, I don't like. That's, you know, regular. Well, we know who the comics are and who the comics are not.

Well, you think you do. Well, I don't know. I mean, generally speaking, if somebody has not done anything of great significance, we won't give their opinion quite the weight that we would. Well, you don't have to do something of great significance to be a comic. I'm just saying that, you know, I don't expect a guy who goes on stage and talks about shit to be offended when somebody else is talking about shit. I don't think most comics have expressed anger at Dave over this special.

I could be wrong. Not yet. Not yet, Dave. You haven't heard it. You haven't been around them. They still have their finger up in the wind before they decide how they feel about it. Well, they got on Louis like crazy. Again, he didn't really say anything.

Oh, yes, he did. I'm talking about Chappelle. Yeah, I'm talking about Chappelle. He said a couple things. First of all, in a time when you are never supposed to blame the victim or question the victim, he went and said these two victims of child molestation are full of shit. Oh, that was the line? Yeah.

Was that the line? I don't want to put words on it. That might have been. And he said even if they did get molested, come on, it's Michael Jackson. We've all thought that. Well, Barbra Streisand said it first, didn't she? Was it Barbra Streisand? Yes.

She was like, it was a good deal. Come on, it's Michael. Have a good time, for God's sake. He said that their first sexual experience is the King of Pop, which is not a bad deal. He also said something about the two women that were in Louis C.K.'s hotel. Wait, hold on, hold on. It's the first part, which is really more significant. The second part is a joke, and you could be bad taste.

But the idea that he's going to publicly tell two victims, I don't believe you. Gangster. That is a shot across the bow. Is it though? Is it comic? I think he's wrong, by the way. He wasn't joking. It's his tactic to get into the punchline.

Yeah, that's his tactic. You start with a defensive take to get to the laugh, really. Sometimes you do that. That's what people do. That's what comics do. And, you know, for any other comic, you could say, oh, I think, because you're a square dude. What I mean by square, you don't do comedy.

I mean you're square in a sense of. Well, Gnome is funnier than some comics, though. Not only doesn't he do comedy, he doesn't really care about comedy that much. But Gnome is funnier than a lot of comedians. It's okay,

you don't need to appreciate it, but I'm square. Go ahead. I was shocked that he watched the Chappelle special, actually.

Go ahead. Well, I'm saying, so a lot of... When a comic gets upset about other comics saying shit, I get annoyed.

Speak slowly because I don't understand much about comedy. I don't understand why you're talking to this square. I didn't say you didn't understand. I'm saying it's easier to see that you could be offended, which I know you're not, over that. Yeah, right. And then the other thing he said was about Louie. And he said, well, you know, come on. It was no big deal. Nobody was threatened. It was his Yeah, right. So then, and then the other thing he said was about Louis and he said, well, you know,

come on, it was no big deal. Nobody was threatened. It was his room, whatever. So he's just taking a flamethrower. Those things were... He's starting off that way and then he dissolves.

Those things were the most provocative. He didn't really say anything about the trans community, at least not this time. I don't know what he said in the past, but those two things were pretty provocative. But I haven't read about those things. What I've read about is Michael Jackson and transgender. I don't know what he said in the past. But those two things were pretty provocative. But I haven't read about those things.

What I've read about is Michael Jackson and transgender. I haven't read anything about what he said about Louise, the girls in Louise's hotel room. And I haven't read anything about what he said about the Michael Jackson victims. Oh, it's coming. Mostly I've read that he went after, in the Slate article, was it Slate or Vice? Vice. They mentioned that he talked about transgendered. That seemed to be

It was a brilliant joke, too. The LGB, he called them the letters. Well, that part was, I'm talking about the specific part about the transgender. I was at the show when Louie went to Skankfest, and he got a standing ovation and the bloggers were mad because he got a standing ovation.

And then his first thing he said was, I've learned a lot. He goes, if you have a girl in your room and you ask her to jerk off in front of you, and she says yes, still don't do it. That was how he started. And they were mad because people found him amusing. So they don't not only, the PC cops not only want to, they not only want to control Louis, but they want to control the people who,

they want you to not like Louis, which is insane. How do you stop people's response? Do you think it's generational? Yeah. I don't know if it's generational. I think it's social media. Yeah. I think it's social media.

You've got to have something to say on social media, so you say it. You've got to have an opinion. Now it's there. Now you've got to use it. I think it's also people. Overall, people want a level of validation, and Twitter and Instagram gives them a level of validation that they would never get any other time,

and so they don't care how they get it. They don't. So people are inauthentic in the fact that they want to say things that they don't even care about and they don't want to believe. Because if they're really honest about who they really are. And so if you as a man, you say that women should be pregnant and pregnant and barefoot, then you're never going to be in the conversation about women's rights because you're an idiot and you've gone so far that it discounts you from that conversation. Whereas if you're inauthentic about what your point of view is in the first place, then you have, then it still allows you to be in the conversation.

And I think, so people are looking for that validation so that they can still be important enough to be in the conversation that they don't even care about in the first place. Wow, there's a lot of conversation validation. You know, when Louie did Skank Fest, like I see the tweets about, hey, well, tell him to get another job. And my thing is, what job would you feel comfortable with him doing? No job. Nothing. Where is he going to work at?

Cleaning up the semen in a porn theater. And they'd be like, oh, look at this guy working, cleaning up semen. Who is he to clean up semen? My guess is they would be happy with him working behind the counter at CVS. I think they would accept this. So here's the thing. Dave is somehow such an icon, so hip, that he has a big force field around him. Because he's good at what he does. You get a leeway when you have proven yourself to be a master at what you do.

I think. I mean, so Louis hasn't? Louis has, too. But I think that Dave... Well, but, yeah. Like Chappelle? It has a whole... No, Louis did have...

Louis was getting away with stuff like that. Louis does everything. Until his personal behavior was called into question. Right, yes. That's a good point. If Dave was caught doing,

God forbid, then I don't know he could just. Yeah, I think it's more so that you go through the fire. And if you survive going through the fire, then you have the then you have the callous to do what Dave is doing. So when Dave, they went at Transmissions, went after him for the first special and he still came out and doubled down. They were like, oh, OK. And the subtext is, listen, you know me for 20 years already. What do you think?

I'm some sort of bigot. You think I hate gay people. You think I hate trans people. You really believe that? Nobody does believe that. So all of a sudden we see, well, we know that he doesn't. And he's making jokes. And he might even have some opinions about these issues, which are not the party line.

And it's a profound thing that he's doing. It might be the beginning of a turnaround. The force field is, I think, less to do with his expertise and his ability than his belovedness. I mean, he's so loved. You can't have... Of course, they go together. He's loved because

he's an expert, but you can be great at what you do and not as loved as Dave. Dave, there's a love for him that I think goes beyond just the fact that he's really, really good. He's a magical person. There's something about him beyond just his skill. You had it right, though. You had it right when you said that Louie,

because he messed up. Louie was saying a lot of bad shit all the time. But his personal life, yeah. About everything. Louie just was pushing those bounds all the time. But his personal life, yeah. About everything. He was, Louis just was pushing those bounds all the time. Yeah. But now that,

that it turned, and he did what he did, he talking about Parkland kids and all that. Oh, how could he do that? Now it's more real.

That's what Louis would do. Now it's everything. I did, I did have a, like a Uber driver tell me that for the first time listening to Louis' jokes

after hearing the real stories was creepier for him. Because now he was like, I mean, this was a guy saying it. It wasn't like, you know, he just said it was creepy to him. Was he trying to pick you up? Any thoughts? I was trying to pick him up. Any thoughts? That was after the sex.

I don't trust a guy like that. And I think Keith will probably dismiss this and want to ignore this question. But any thoughts on Dave's outfit? I didn't see it. It looked like he was about to ask me if I wanted a premium or regular. He's worn it before, hasn't he? That jumpsuit? Yeah, he's worn it before.

Does he wear it on his special? But he had his logo on it. He had his C on it. Actually, I think on his special? But he had his logo on it. He had his C on it. Actually, I think it was not unlike what he probably wore in Con Air. By the way, does he mean it like this? Does he really think that, or is it just a joke, that the reason he knows that Safechuck and the other one are lying is because Michael Jackson didn't fuck Macaulay Culkin?

You don't want to give away the joke. It's been written about. It's been written about. And you put it here. Oh, I got to see it. I mean, could he... He doesn't really... Oh, come on.

I don't think so. Macaulay Culkin was delicious. Everybody thinks that. Yeah, but Macaulay... He had his heart not to fuck Macaulay Culkin. But Macaulay Culkin... Macaulay Culkin wouldn't have kept that shit secret. Yes, he would.

Is the question. I mean, or maybe he would. Maybe he wouldn't have. Okay. The joke revolves around the notion that Macaulay Culkin wouldn't have kept that shit secret. Yes, he would. Is the question. I mean, or maybe he wouldn't have. Okay. The joke revolves around the notion that Macaulay Culkin was bootylicious, if you're into that sort of thing. Right. But he's also probably yap his mouth.

Every kid's going to yap their mouth. And be believed, though. You'd believe Cut Macaulay, and there'd be a big brouhaha. So what's next in black show business news? Eddie Murphy is going to be hosting SNL in December. And Leslie is leaving. And Leslie is leaving. She's leaving SNL to focus on her movie career and her Netflix special.

Well, good for her. Well, of course, quitting SNL to focus on movies has not worked out for everybody that's tried it. What a positive outlook. Shout out, Dan. We certainly hope she's the exception that proves the rule and given that she's our...

It's worked out for plenty of them. It worked out for Chevy Chase, Will Farrell, Bill Murray. Dan Aykroyd. Dan Aykroyd. Kristen Wiig. Eddie Murphy.

Even Chris Rock. It worked out. It worked out for a lot of them. Who are you talking about? That is true. Maybe not Janine Garofalo. Maybe that would be the only exception. She had a great run, though, for a while.

Didn't work out for Dana Carvey, really. Worked out for Michael Myers. Didn't work out for Dana Carvey. Larry David. Oh, no, he wrote on the show. He wasn't on camera. I want to finish talking about Jay-Z, god damn it. Go ahead.

I don't know anything. You have to fill me in. Dan and I can take five. You guys talk about Jay-Z. I made the deal with the NFL. I don't know anything. You have to fill me in. Dan and I can take five. You guys talk about Jay-Z. You made the deal with the NFL. You made the deal with the devil. I don't know. I was talking about the team

Taleb you wanted to talk about. I want to hear what they say about Jay-Z. It's a big deal for real men. It's a big deal for hip-hop fans. Anybody who likes football it's a big deal for hip-hop fans, I guess. No, no, the football, anybody who likes football and it's a big deal.

What Jay-Z did is he stepped in and talked to the commissioner of the league, Roger Goodell, and he made a deal with the NFL

so that his company could... Rock away. Rock Nation could book the acts for Super Bowl and Colin Kaepernick who started the whole movement protesting was not invited was he asked those that someone yeah they didn't even talk to him he didn't speak to me made the deal without him and didn't he receive a lot of money previous to this already?

Someone told me that Kaepernick got a settlement because of lost wages and all that. So that's the settlement that he got. Eight million? I don't know how much he got. I thought it was three million, was it? It don't matter. He got a settlement for that. But that had nothing to do with, like, and Jay-Z in the interview on TV,

which was on TV, they said, what about the nailing? He said, we don't do that no more. Speaking for all of us again. That's the problem. Jay-Z said that? Don't speak for everyone. He said, we got to move past this. We got to move past it.

But you never was in it. Yeah. So why are you talking about you didn't kneel? And you didn't lose anything. That was in it. Yeah. So why are you talking about you didn't kneel? And you didn't lose anything. That was their thing. But what about the argument about him putting himself at the table? We have to be at the table to negotiate. I hate that because you're not really at the table.

No. Well, you're at the table when Goodell and all the white owners got together like, you know, how can we stop these black folks from kneeling? You wasn't at that table. Oh, I know. We'll get some black guy, black face to put out front and then hopefully

they'll do it. Yeah, well, him being there is going to help, right? No, not if it was a money grab. Money grab. He's just trying to get the bag. Then it doesn't matter. They said that Jay-Z sold crack to the black community for years before.

Okay. So I guess that's... Who didn't do that? That's a sign of character, right? That could tell you a little bit about a person. You always have... No. You're always going to have imperfect allies.

If we're going to look at people for what they did when they were 20 years old, 18 years old, and people don't have the ability to grow or to progress, then that's a problem. How do you get people? If you want change, you have to accept imperfect allies and people that have made mistakes before and have said that they want to change and that they're doing things to change. So then he's doing something, right? He's giving a lot of money to a lot of people in schools and colleges. But this is not along the lines of that?

I don't think so. I think this is a money grab. And I don't see how this can help. But you can't deny all of the things that Jay-Z has done for the black community. That's what I'm saying. It sounds like if he's done all of these things that Jay-Z has done for the black community. That's what I'm saying. It sounds like if he's done all of these things, if it's a money grab and he does all those things, aren't they too functional? I guess we've got to see. You think that Jay-Z is really grabbing money at this point?

He's a billionaire. You don't think that billionaires still want to earn money? They're not all giving it away. I don't think that billionaires still want to earn money. They're not all giving it away. I don't think so. Then to disprove that is like, why do you think they had to go to Jay-Z? Why do you think the billionaires had to go to Jay-Z? Because they were leaking money. Yeah.

That's the only reason they got Jay-Z. What about the football? I don't think they're all billionaires, but they're presuming they're all rich. That's a business, and a business has to be run. Sure, sure. That's not quite the same thing. Jay-Z is a business.

Yeah, but to go out there and compromise something that you care deeply about to grab some money when you're a billionaire, that's a pretty... I'm not saying that's impossible, but I would be slow to making that kind of assumption

about somebody. Now, if I'm on a football team, the team has to run a profit. You're not going to run it to lose money and pay employees, whatever it is. It is a business. Yeah, that's a business. But you have to look at all... I own the comedy seller. I need the comedy seller to operate officially as a business.

But I'm not going to go out there and try to make $30,000 by being an asshole. Jay-Z runs Roc Nation. That's his business. Right. So he has to get money for that business. I am just slow to think the worst about people. I'm not thinking the worst. I'm just what it is.

If you look at historically, and maybe this is not a, I mean, but war is business. So when you when America during World War II, when they let the Lusitania go into international waters and get bombed so that we could go into World War II World War I was Lusitania. World War I. In order to

get, they allowed those people to get they knew that they were putting people in international waters and they could get bombed. So to think that that didn't have some kind of connection to us going into war, I just don't have that much confidence in people. Well, I don't think Jay-Z, I don't know how to compare Jay-Z to the American involvement in World War I. That's a little over my head. I don't know enough about either of those issues to tell you the truth. But I do World War I. That's a little over my head. I don't know enough about either of those

issues to say the truth. But I do think the operative line is don't speak for anyone. Just speak for yourself in this day and age. Because you're

going to get it. The thing was the optics look bad. It was bad optics. When you visualize what he's doing and like, where's Kaepernick? Where's Ed Reed? Where are the football players at? look bad. It was bad often when you visualize what he's doing.

Where's Kaepernick? Where's Ed Reed? Where are the football players at? To get back to Coleman, do you perceive him as speaking for anybody but himself when giving his opinion? I didn't, but the way it came out did. And he actually said he just didn't have enough time. He didn't go over the light like a comic

would. You know what I'm saying? Like he had, I think, five minutes, and he stuck to his five minutes, and he regrets that, whereas everyone else on that panel went to ten. They went over the light. They did more than. So he would have corrected. Well, Coleman was speaking for black people. That was awfully white of him. Coleman was speaking for white people, black people.

But there are phrases that he would have taken out So that he was speaking for himself That's what he says Well it seemed to me that he was speaking for himself I'm afraid we're going to lose all the listeners Because that ended the Coleman thing Dan got called a jackass on Twitter today Twitter this week by a famous author

I got called a fucking idiot A jackass I wouldn't have brought up A fucking idiot is By one jackass. A jackass I wouldn't have brought up. A fucking idiot is significant. By one person? So tell everybody the story. I don't know the story either. Well, you don't know the story. This guy, his name is Nick, what's his name?

Nicholas, Nassim Nicholas Taleb. He wrote a book called Black Swan. And he's got some controversial ideas. Now, this was a famous book, right? Very famous book. It's a famous intellectual. Okay. So he wrote on Twitter, the term white supremacy is a terrible book, right? Very famous book. It's a famous intellectual. Okay. So he wrote on Twitter,

the term white supremacy is a terrible misnomer. One, white is indicative of purity, not color. Two, does not map to what is called white, Caucasian, Western Eurasian, or light-skinned. Many Asians are light-skinned, only to Northwestern Europe. Best term is replacement for white supremacy, Nordicist, bleach supremacy,

or North Atlantic supremacy. So I wrote, I texted, just as homophobia doesn't literally mean scared of homosexual people, white in a racial context doesn't literally mean white. So what? Everyone knows what it means.

There is no more precise word. To which Nassim said, fucking idiot, my point is... What an intellectual. My point is... Fucking idiot, my point is that the definition is not precise. Dan, do you ever wonder, do you question

yourself how you get under people's skin so efficiently? He barely knows you, he's reacting to you just like we do. First of all, I've never been called a fucking idiot before that I recall.

We didn't say it out loud. No, I'm joking. Second of all, the reason I got under his skin was because he brought up, I thought, a foolish point. And Nassim Nicholas Taleb is known to be

a very insecure bully. To which I responded, thusly, I said... You didn't call me out. That's what gets people under their skin, thusly. Words like thusly, that stinks. I said to Nassim, I said, you go right to fucking idiot when someone politely disagrees. Maybe your detractors are right about you.

Maybe you are an insecure bully. Oh, the answer? And he did not respond to that. He probably blocked me or something. I'm told he blocks everybody that disagrees. Oh, he may have muted you, but you can't yell at someone and then block them.

Why did he block you? He should have responded. I don't know if he blocked me, muted me, or neither of the above. I think Twitter is the worst place on Earth. The point is, here's this great intellect

who I never expected would even respond to me and goes right... And I disagreed with him, I thought, in a polite way. Black people are not black either. No.

I think it's a good point. It's a shorthand term. I think it's a good point. Dance point. Yeah. Yeah. It was a death blow. You sliced him up.

You got pissed because you banged him out. You knocked him out. How are you going to get 300 million people to start saying Nordicist? I mean, this is absurd. It's just not going to happen. Although they are saying Latinx so I guess anything is possible. White is also a fluid term. There was no white people

before 1920. White people was a social conch. George Washington would talk about white people. You don't have what you call white people with just Anglo-Saxons and it started to include Italians and immigrants and Irish immigrants after 1920. What are you, Dante? You're a light skinned.

You look like one of my wife's Puerto Rican uncles. I'm a Puerto Rican. Dante's questionable. But my grandfather on my mother's side is 100% Sioux. So you're Native American. So you're red Well but my My grandmother is Descendant of slaves And my grandfather on my father's side

Is Antiguan which is Caribbean And my grandmother on my father's side Is half Irish And half black At a time when you couldn't be mixed race So she grew up in an orphanage Let me break it down Would you get reparations or not?

Well, he'd get a quarter of it. Yeah, I'm descendants of slaves. My grandmother's descendants of slaves. So you get one-eighth of a check or something. I'm like, man, a fourth, a fourth, a quarter. But don't say one- Your grandmother's full- My grandmother's full-blooded.

Well, and it depends. My grandfather's 100% Sioux, Monacan. So Sioux doesn't get reparations. Yeah, but you get Native American. Oh, you can get both? I get three-eighths. Realistically, what are the chances that reparations are actually going to happen? Well, it's happened throughout history.

It's always happened. What are the chances it's going to happen for the African? What would it happen for black people? In America. That's a different question. You got the cheese. That was a start. You got the cheese. That was a start. Cheese. Well,

I suppose. Butter and peanut butter. I assume white people got cheese too if they were sufficiently poor. Sure, if they were poor. A lot of poor white people. Yes, they certainly did despite what Biden mistakenly said.

But do you think there's any chance that we'll see reparations for slave descendants in America? I think the real point is that when you look at this whole thing, in essence, you had the New Deal and all of these things were, I won't say reparations, but it was affirmative action. Like those things were affirmative action. The New Deal, the Home Act, the Homestead Act, where you had Eastern Europeans come to this country, get 100 acres of musket and seeds and that whole essence. Do you have it again with the Homestead Act where they gave European immigrants

land and... How do you know about all this stuff? I'm a history buff. You're a student of history. I don't know what you're talking about. Well, I didn't see far and away. Exactly. I'm upset. You never asked me how I know all this.

I think when we can all sit at the table and have a fair conversation about what we got because of generations behind us then we'll be in a better place I think because you can hear conversations of generational wealth with white people

but you don't hear that with black people there were systemic things in place to make sure that black people didn't have generation wealth. We didn't get the mule. We didn't even get access to Social Security until after the Civil Rights Movement. And women couldn't own property prior to 1910. And now they can't stop one-clicking Amazon. At least in my house.

That was real personal. I just made no money. I don't know who owns it, but I don't know who pays for it. I think Coleman made a point in an article where he expounded further on reparations at a point that probably you won't like. But I believe

Coleman made the point that reparations have been, at least in part, paid. And it's a point. How's that? Don't look at me like that. It was Coleman's point. What was the point? I think what Coleman was saying is that we've spent hundreds of billions,

if not trillions of dollars, on programs with the intention of helping black America recover from the effects of slavery. Was it black America or was it poor America? No, it was black America. There's all kinds of set-asides for minority businesses.

There's a lot of things. But just any time you address tremendous amounts of money towards a particular problem which is serious in a community. But I mean, I think having lived through all these political cycles, we understand that there has been

a lot of attention paid to try to help black Americans. Affirmative action is a voluntary program across the entire nation, which is to help black Americans. And it's not even by law. But the affirmative action, to say that affirmative action was, like people say it was unfair, white people have been getting, white poor white people have been getting affirmative action.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not arguing against affirmative action. I'm saying that this would be an example of a reparative attempt by white America to help black America. Listen, I think you may get your back up at Dan's quote about Coleman, but I don't think it's necessary to say, no, no, they've never spent a dime to try to make it up to us. I don't think that. I don't think by that means you have to give up the idea that reparations are still on.

That's fair. It can both be true. Yeah, they've tried, but it hasn't been nearly enough. But you also have Jim Crow. You have redlining. You have stop and frisk. You have mass incarceration. The Comedy Cellar lineup until 2002.

You have the Comedy Cellar lineup. Was it 2002? It's weird you know the date. I'm kidding. If only Coleman had spoke for you at Congress. Well, anyway, what else? What else you got in your mind? I have to go soon.

We're almost done, but I did leave room for our final segment, which is a political news roundup with right-leaning pundit Noam Dorman. The big issue, on our theme, the big issue this week is that Mayor de Blasio's commission suggested now

that we get rid of all the gifted programs in the New York City schools essentially because the Asians and to some extent the whites too, that's not a fair characterization. of all the gifted programs in the New York City schools because, essentially, because the Asians and to some extent the whites too, that's not a fair characterization.

The fact is that blacks are highly underrepresented in those programs and they've tried various ways to fix that and now the mayor said, well,

let's just get rid of all gifted programs, which I think is nuts. It's nuts. You do think it's nuts? Yeah, of course. Yeah, you can't do that. I mean, that's like nuts. It's nuts. You do think it's nuts. Yeah, of course. Yeah, you can't do that. I mean, that's like not...

It's like giving up on the black kids. Yeah, and it's also like not giving... It's penalizing those... It's giving up on American excellence as well. You have people who are qualifying what... You've got to fix that, but you don't take... You're not going to take brilliant Asians and brilliant other people, and then how is that going to affect America in general?

I mean, we already have a shortage of doctors and physicians, and that's why it's important to have immigrants, because you've got immigrants coming from Pakistan and India. They're making a huge mistake, because I imagine in Kenya, I don't know anything about Nairobi and public schools, but I imagine they have special programs for gifted kids. Yeah. And I imagine in an all-white neighborhood somewhere, they have programs.

It's not. It is a natural thing. I say get rid of it. I'm with DeBlasio. Well, isn't this what causes the division when you start doing this and what causes, like, tribalism? Is when you start talking about wiping away causes tribalism is when you start talking about wiping away programs like this. Can you imagine being a middle class white dude

and your kids are talented and they're gifted? No, we're taking away the gifted program. They're going to go to the shit. No, it's nuts. I agree with you. And then on top of that, the resentment for Asians is really growing and it's bad. I think it's really bad. They're so nice.

You should read Noam's new book, Excluded. I don't think people will resent Asians. The War Against Asian Americans at Elite Universities and Why It Matters, which will be available on Amazon this fall. I think the notion that we're moving to a minority white country, and I've said this a million times, and that we think it's and that we think it's racist to even consider

ethnicity in terms of immigrants and all that stuff to at the same time say but you know what once you get here we don't want more than 20% Asians at Harvard

we don't want that's just crazy talk because what we're essentially saying is like any new Asian that comes in okay okay, you can come in. But you can't. We basically had enough of you already.

So any more. I agree with that. I think what Noam is saying. Let me tell you why I agree. Here's why I agree with it. They had one Asian at my son's high school. He won everything. He won every last award.

I'm like, Jesus Christ. Even the rap battle. Yeah, but let's be honest. He gets it. And the breakdance contest. He was like Wilt Chamberlain in the 50s against all the white people. Oh, 100 points. Yeah, but he get a B-minus, he'll jump off the roof.

No, parents will kill him. So did that bother you? Yes, it bothered me. At that goddamn age, you know it didn't really bother me. It was just funny. But listen, you know what? It's all ties together.

I mean, as comedians, we're going to have to learn to let things go if we're going to be one people. We're going to have to learn to let jokes go by. Just because something bothers us, we all get bothered.

Let it go. Because the goal ought to be that we could have 60% of Harvard be Asian, and we don't give a shit. Because who cares? That's not realistic. No, it is realistic. Not only is it realistic,

it's our only hope. We cannot have a zero-sum pitting against each other of races. Unfortunately, and I regret to say it, America's about as colorblind as we're going to get. We were more colorblind 20 years ago. I don't know about that. Colorblind is the wrong term.

I don't understand why you... Our goal was different 20 years... There was a time when Martin Luther King's goal, content of your character, was really the goal. Let me say one other thing. Affirmative action, the goal of affirmative action for most of my life was let's get black people to the same place

that white people are so then someday we won't need affirmative action anymore. That's not the goal anymore. The goal now is we have to have a bean counting of everything. We can't level the playing field by destroying

people who are achieving excellence. They're never going to limit the NBA to how many black people. They're never going to do that, right? Why is that? Because it's financial. No, because they shouldn't.

Well, yes, but that doesn't It'd be crazy to do that I forget who said this but there's a quote That says America will always do the right thing After everything has been exhausted I said I did that I think Keith So you're not gonna

It's funny you mentioned Martin Luther King But people think that Martin Luther King He was on the Lusitania He changed his mind on a lot of things You mentioned Martin Luther King, but people think that Martin Luther King... He was on the Lusitania. Well, it wasn't the Lusitania. He changed his mind on a lot of things. People think that it was the passive protest that moved the needle. That's not what moved the protest.

The protest was moved because there were 11 cities on fire. Chicago, Detroit. Absolutely. It's not any one thing. I lived through it. You might have too. I can remember very much the attitude in my home during all that.

And it was very, very much about the moral issue of what was going on. When you seen it. Martin Luther King was, I mean I told a story on the show before. I remember when Martin Luther King was, I mean, I told a story on the show before. I remember when Martin Luther King was killed. He was 68, right? So I was six

years old, or maybe five years old, depending on what month it was. And my father sat me down to explain to me about this event in terms that were so emotional to him that I remembered it the rest of my life. That was not...

What did he say? You're talking about what a great man he was, how racism was evil. I mean, like, I can remember where we were sitting. He was worked up about it. This was not... What moved the needle, now, was... Because of the riots.

Money. Money moved the needle. What moved the needle, it could have been that, but it was on TV. Yes. People started to visually see themselves. In your face. Same thing with immigration today. Right. You see a kid in a cage, but it was on TV. People started to visually see themselves.

Same thing with immigration today. You see a kid in a cage and it changes your thinking. It's totally different. Right, but I think Martin Luther King did that on purpose. He put those people in harm's way. He knew how people were going to respond. And he also was smart enough to know that when they broadcasted it, it would create the humanity of people, which people didn't see them as humane in the first place.

But the reason why Kennedy brought all the black leaders to Washington was because, so I always use this analogy, it's like if you think about how many bacon and egg sandwiches are spent, people buy every morning. Millions of dollars in bacon and egg. But when people are rioting, right, nobody's going to work. Think about their diet.

That's such a horrible diet. Nobody buys bacon and egg sandwiches. Nobody, and so business stops. So the machine is what keeps it going. So people don't,

they don't have change until the money stops. This is a very cynical view of things that I believe has some basis in reality. Of course, money matters. True. But I think people who think cynical view of things that I believe has some basis in reality. Of course, money matters.

But I think people who think like you can underestimate other factors. And if we just imagine ourselves and what moves us and the people we know who are close to us, there's other significant things other than money. Look at the protests in China. I don't think that both of those things

can't be true. In fact, I think both of those things have to be true for social change. You have to have where the money is changed and you have to have that humanity. How do you account for 400,000 or whatever it is, white people dying to free the slaves?

Morality. It was ethic and morality. That's how many died to free the slaves? All the Civil War. The Union soldiers. That's how many Union soldiers. I don't think the average Union soldier, to be honest, went into battle thinking, I've got to free those slaves. I don't think so. I think the average Union soldier, to be honest, went into battle thinking, I got to free those slaves.

I don't think so. I think the average Union soldier went into battle thinking, I want to keep the country together. My country asked me to fight, and the noble thing when your country asks you to fight is to go fight.

I think they were thinking, they're making a lot of money over there in the South. I want some of that money. No, the North had more money than the South. They were thinking, they were thinking,

these Southerners are traitors, and how dare they...ede from this union. Lincoln, I read some Lincoln this week, and he was pretty clear that if not for the slavery issue, there would not be going to war. Now, you're right. But he also said that he never saw black people as equals to whites. That was, that's his, he stated that. And I think he should be forgiven for that. Noam, did he say?

I don't say, I'm saying, but that was his position. I don't think he was forgiven. Noam, did he say that if the South has seceded, but said, we're seceding, but we're also abolishing slavery? No, he didn't say that. No. That he would not have gone to, he would have gone to war anyway, I think. Even if the South said, we're going to secede, but we're going to abolishing slavery. No, he didn't say that. That he would not have gone to war. He would have gone to war anyway, I think, even if the South said,

we're going to secede, but we're going to abolish slavery. Lincoln would have gone to war anyway. It's interesting you're touching on something because it's become very politically incorrect to say that the Civil War was about anything but slavery. But you're right. When we were growing up,

we were taught there were multiple causes of the Civil War and slavery was just one of them. But no matter how you slice it, slavery was the number slice it, there were many white people who did fight. Absolutely. John Brown was the abolitionist that started the anti-slavery movement. I don't think that the average soldier was John Brown. I think the average soldier, just like the average soldier went to Iraq. Why?

Because he was told, you're going to Iraq, and your country is calling on you. I agree with that. I want to tell you why I think Lincoln should be forgiven. Let's look at... Oh, I have to go. I just want to say thank you. Here's one point, though, if you can. Let's look at how in our lifetimes, especially maybe in the black, not especially,

but including in the black community, the attitude about homosexuals has changed. Sure. Just think about that. Eddie Murphy could have an album not that long ago. The faggots. That was the name of the segment. I mean, it was open season.

And now we look back at that and say, what the fuck was the matter with us? It's Quincy. Until Chappelle does it. No, he didn't say that. So now imagine you're a white person in the 1860s. And don't forget, black people are kept ignorant by law. Yeah. So you see these ignorant people and you live at a time where you don't know anything about science.

And you're just supposed to know that you're supposed to intuit that. No, no. They could be every bit the scientists that we are. And I'm saying, you know what? We didn't even know that. We couldn't even imagine that gays were the same in the 21st century, for Christ's sake. What do you really expect of people? Like the most far-reaching person at any given time can see a little bit above the shoulders of the people around them. And that's what makes them great.

To expect anybody to think arrogantly, yeah, yeah, Lincoln Schmincken, but if I was born in 18, I would have known. No, you wouldn't have. The average Haseed born in Brooklyn still fucking thinks all the Haseed nonsense. I actually studied a character during that time that used to

live in the household with Mary Todd. Her name is Elizabeth Keckley. So I wrote a one-woman piece about her and how she would make dresses. She was like the first black entrepreneur in D.C. So she was like a modiste, and she was... That's before C.J. Walker, right? Before Madam C.J. Walker.

I don't know. She actually did dresses for everyone, though. She was bipartisan. She would make dresses for Jefferson Davis' wife as well. She was like the Jay-Z of her time. She's like, I don't care. I'm making dresses for everyone. Anyway,

I gotta go. Dante, it was great that you sat in. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Bye, Marina. The question of the week is had the South seceded but simultaneously abolished slavery Would Lincoln have gone to war? I say yes

Say that again? If the South had seceded But at the same time said we're going to abolish slavery Would Lincoln have gone to war anyway? And I think the answer is clearly yes Well that's what we said in the first place That both things have to be true There's a moral and an ethical push And then there's a financial push too And that's what we said in the first place. Both things have to be true. There's a moral and an ethical push, and then there's a financial push, too.

And that's what creates the social change. All right. Well, let's all think about how we can come together as one. I'm actually obsessed with this issue now because I see things going so badly. You know that if I wanted to open up a Japanese restaurant, maybe I could get in trouble. I mean, if you wanted to wear... A kimono. Yeah, like, this is very...

They call you a culture vulture. And this is very serious at a time when we're moving towards no particular... When my father was growing up, he told me, America was what? 90% white and Jews were a tiny thing. It was 98% Christian or something like that. And my father would go to public schools and they would do Christmas carols

and this and that. And he told me, he says, we never resented the Christian stuff. We knew it's a Christian country. We were just happy to be free in America. But now imagine where it's 50-50. It's 50% Jews.

All of a sudden, you have a fucking fight on your hands. And that's where we're heading, a fight on every... It's because people are being dishonest. They're being dishonest about what their real argument is. They're trying to say it's a war on Christmas. It's not a war on Christmas. Nobody stops you from having Christmas or Hanukkah. Right, but what I'm saying is that if we're going to move to a place where there's no clear majority,

then we're going to have to learn to let things go and love each other more. And we're going to have to counteract our nature and really force ourselves to have thicker skins, show forbearance, and to not care about things we get a paying. Oh, you see that Asian kid won all the awards. We have to train ourselves and say, wait a second, I shouldn't think that way. I don't.

I don't want to see no Asian taking all the damn awards. I don't want to see the Indy kid housing all the spelling bees. We also have to acknowledge that you... I'm sick of the NBA. I want to read Bob Cousy back in the days when the Jews did well in the NBA. We also have to consider the possibility

that we are limited just like, you know, I'd like to be able to fly like a bird, but I'm not going to waste a whole lot of time trying because I don't think it's going to be very productive. It wasn't very long ago when Duke Ellington was studying classical music. Nobody white complained about that.

Zubin Mehta is conducting New York Philharmonic, Archer Indian. You know, I mean, this is new, the idea, this cultural appropriation thing. It's nuts. Do I care? Oh, so there's this guy Don Byron. Everybody should look. Don Byron is this black jazz musician. And he made an album

clarinetist. He made an album of klezmer music. Like really heavy Jewish klezmer music with even a Yiddish guy singing. And I played it for my father. My father knew that kind of music. And I played it for my father. And my father was like, holy shit, this is fantastic.

It never occurred to him, what the fuck is that black guy playing our music? But that could be the reaction today. Noam, you make this mistake a lot. It's so American to him. A black guy loves Jewish music. You make this mistake a lot. You argue what I call argumentum ad manium, where you think everybody

is like your father. Your father was a special person in many ways. At that time, that was a typical opinion. Nobody cared in those days if a black musician played Jewish music. Here's a question. How do you think the gay

and the LGBT community moved the needle? I think you left out some letters there. I don't want to co-sign that simplistic... LGBTQIA. LGBTQIA. How did we want to cosign that simplistic. LGBTQ. LGBTQ. How did we get to that point where I know even on stage

I would drop the F-bomb and then there was a time when I dropped it and it just didn't feel right. And it wasn't because people were coming at me. It just, I was like, I want to push I want to push my art artistically, but I don't want to hurt people. I don't want to offend people.

I wouldn't say offend, but I don't want to be malicious in my intent. So you want to push the audience, but you still want to have, take into consideration what the historical perspective was, which is why we got there in the first place. I think it's something more than that. Listen, when the rules change, whatever the rules are, then if you don't go by the rules, you're making a

statement. So like when you come out and say F-A-G now, it's like, well, if he's doing that, he's doing that on purpose. It's similar to like the N-word. Where it used to be fine, I finally stopped, it used to be fine if you were talking about it. Like last week? No, no, no. I fine I finally stopped it used to be fine if you were talking about it like last week

no no no I never used it it used to be fine if Keith and I were having a conversation about it and you could use it in the context of it

I could quote Richard Pryor or I could say so and so called somebody and this was always the case Howard Stern did it

nobody ever I mean you could see countless conversations of important left wing people who when they were discussing it, would say the word. You can't say that anymore. Now, I think that's madness because you're just quoting. I joked on the other podcast that if somebody was shooting up a black church and they had it on video, the news they'd show them shooting but they

not show them they bleep out the n-word yeah you can't even if it's even if it's real you know you can't say so but the fact is that if today I insist on quoting the n-word people read that differently than if I quoted it five years ago because like I'm being defiant now. Well, I think the point is context. With Twitter and social media, there is no context. And even when you take a joke out of the context

of a comedy club, then you don't know what the meaning was. You don't know what the intent is. And I think what we really need to understand is the sense of context. Dude, I tried to sit down and read Tom Sawyer to my kids. And I got through two pages, and I just put it down. I said, I can't do it.

I couldn't. In the privacy of my home, I couldn't utter the word. Right, right. And then I'm thinking, well, what if my kids then say that their dad read them Tom Sawyer? You know, it's like, now that can't be. This is a great piece of literature about Barack Obama, love Huckleberry Finn. You know, this is, we're cutting off our nose

to spite our face when we can't even read out loud something that was written to expose racism. This is what we're doing. In San Francisco, they're painting over, there was a mural of George Washington with his slaves, which was painted by a communist who was trying to expose the hypocrisy of George Washington. And now they're painting over it

because they don't want anybody to see George Washington with slaves. Isn't that the context? That's what I'm saying. Is there a group we haven't gotten to yet that we can, is there a group that we can still make fun of today that in five years we'd be like, oh my God, I can't believe we used to make fun of those people. White people.

White people's all that's left. Yeah, I guess. At some point, you might be... When you become a minority, then you can't wait. I can't wait until y'all become old. Can you understand why some white people might not be thrilled to be headed toward minority status?

Absolutely, because then you give up control. You give up power. Majority always has power then you give up control. You give up power. Majority always has power. White folks ain't going to give up power. They're going to fight to the last stand. To the last whitey. I'm not so sure. It doesn't look like white people are doing that, necessarily.

Doing what? Fighting against their impending minority status. Absolutely they are. Every second of every, not everybody, but that's why you have the rise of white supremacy. And I don't really call it, but it's, I think we, a lot of times we mistake racism for prejudice. Racism is the system in place, the laws in the system,

and prejudice is the attitudes. And I think we kind of conflate the two issues. So system is redlining or discrimination or Jim Crow and all of those things. Prejudice is the attitudes that justify the system. I think, I don't know about majority, non-majority, I think there's a, presuming that everybody's the same,

presuming we're not racist, the propensity of the average white person to be racist is no greater than the propensity of the average black person to be racist. Racist or prejudiced? Either and both. And I think there's a lot of

hatred, racial hatred in the direction of white people now, which is dressed up as righteousness, which scares me because it's not considered improper to express it or to show it. And I think that, again, it worries me where we're going as a country.

I think that it would be great if people on the left said to them, said out loud, listen, we should probably not use any race as shorthand for bad or stupid or that we should probably

stop talking about white people. I'm sick of white men. I'm sick of that. Because it's wrong. It's got to be wrong out of anybody's mouth to refer to people disparagingly by something they have no choice about. But no, what if I mean it? What if it's in my heart? White guys get on my nerves.

What if that's in my heart? I feel it. I cry sometimes. What if it's in my heart? Whoa! That black guy's got to like it. Hey, you're going if it's in my heart? Whoa! You're going too far now. I would prefer for people to say what's in their heart.

But try for it not to be in your heart, if possible. I feel no kinship with the white race. The people who care about the white race hate Jews. It gets lost on a lot of people. There's no, the idea of white, Jewish white supremacy is a total, I mean, maybe it exists now, I don't know, but it doesn't make any sense to me. What white supremacist group,

like Episcopalian white supremacists, like the, like... Well, Charlottesville, they were chanting Jews will not replace us. That's right, they hate Jews. They hate Jews. So, but you also have a situation where you co-opt different cultures.

There was a time when Italians weren't considered white. They were never riding on the back of the bus. They were and they weren't. They weren't considered white. I'm very skeptical of that. You were attached to your culture. Legally speaking, as

Noam said, they weren't affected by Jim Crow or whatever else. No, but Irish, they used to say. They could legally marry white women when miscegenation laws were in place. That's true. So in many respects, they were treated as white. So it wasn't racism. It was prejudice against them.

It wasn't a system. It wasn't a legal system in place. But you did have places where you'd have signs that would say no Irish or dogs allowed. That was part of it. And so you have people that attributed their oneness to their culture. That changed with time. People who always have prejudice

and there has been prejudice. But more than ever, we need to come together as one nation because we... Don't try to come together now when a white man is about to become a minority. That's right. I don't want to hear it.

And more than ever, we're rejecting the very premise of being of a content of your character nation. More than ever, we're saying that what's most important about you is the way you're born. Again, so important that if people with eyes like yours do too well in their SATs, we can't have too many of them at this college.

Once again, Noam's book excluded. Well, the reason it's such an important point is because it has nothing to do with affirmative action. It has nothing to do with white racism. It shows it's a pure move to not redressing wrongs. We're not trying to make sure that blacks represent their colleges. We're trying to limit people based on their DNA. And this is a really, really bad trend.

It's fucking crazy. How can we survive as a nation that way? Let's make a list. On one side, all the multi-ethnic nations which have succeeded. One, United States of America. And let's make a list of all the most de-ethnic nations which have succeeded. One. United States of America. And let's make a list of all the most de-ethnic nations which have just drowned in bloodshed.

Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Israel, I mean, the Arab, Iraq. I mean, the list is Canada barely, not bloodshed, but they talk about secession all the time. The French and the thing. This is a totally un-normal, unnatural way for people to live. And how can it work? Well, it seems to me the ground, the first step, a prerequisite to it ever working is that people have to have the ideology. Listen, we need to de-emphasize any of our differences. We need to embrace the fiction that we're all one people.

Otherwise, obviously, this can't work. What went wrong in all those other countries? I don't know. Because they never felt like one people. I don't know.

It's going to go wrong here, too. I don't think the colorblindness, what you're talking about is this colorblindness or that you can have this colorblindness and move it forward. I think you have to recognize

and celebrate the diversity without you looking for... Celebrating is different. Yeah. But to say we're all one people, the whole thing that makes it great is the cultures. It's the melding of the cultures. Melding would be great, but melding

implies that you can sell sushi and I can sell fried chicken or whatever, you know, soul food and, sorry. I'm saying, whatever it is that our ethnic restaurants would serve. So, like, Friday night in the altar here, it was kind of beautiful, I think. So, I'm playing music and we have, like,

two black guys in the band and three white guys and we're playing hip-hop music and then we're playing country music, and we played some Italian music on the mandolin, and then Franco comes in, he's Dominican, and we have people from every ethnic group downstairs performing. And in the kitchen, we have Arabic guys making hummus, but also nachos. I mean, it's like, you know, and there was even a few gay people around.

And it's like, this was very American to me. But why? Why is that? Because it's an artist, the place is, I think art brings people together. It's like when Dizzy Gillespie went to Cuba to do those African beats and to kind of bring those African beats into jazz. There was this kind of, but there was a respect for that.

And it was like, wow, you're doing this. Let's collaborate, which is different than being colorblind. But it was colorblind in a sense that nobody, when I started a Spanish song, Franco the Dominican guy

doesn't look at me like, what the fuck are you doing? No, no. You shouldn't be doing that. Nobody says, oh, what's that Egyptian guy in the kitchen? He shouldn't be making nachos. But that doesn't make you any less Jewish

because of that. No, it doesn't. The point is that we shouldn't be making nachos. But that doesn't make you any less Jewish because of that. The point is that we shouldn't be abusive. We need to have that attitude where we enjoy each other and that over time, just like classical music became part of jazz culture, over time we will become like an amalgam of everything and our one culture will reflect all these smaller parts of where we came from. But we have to allow people to do that.

But you also can't have a fear If you want to wear a kimono as a trans woman wear a kimono as a trans woman. I do that all the time. But you can't be afraid of being a minority to do that. You can't go.

I'm afraid of black guys on the street. You think I want to? I'm afraid of skinheads. I mean, we all are. I mean, everybody's got the element of that. I'm not afraid of being a minority, and my children are mixed. But you're an artist. Look how you stutter.

You see how I'm stuttering? My kids are. My kids are of color. So it really doesn't. The Dwarvens are no longer a white people. You always see. You always see. I'm the last white Dwarven. I'm the last white Dwarven.

The last. What's that? Hold on. Oh, they're calling from my father's cemetery. There's a disturbance at the grave. Something's rolling over. No, I'm the last white dwarf. What you're talking about is not worrying me.

Of course I would. Yeah, but it's not worrying you, but there are people who are going, Jews will not replace us, that think it's a problem. I'm worried about all people in this country being able to live together. Yeah, but that's you, and we kind of live in this bubble that, especially artistically and being comics and artistically, people have always come together. When you go to musicians, musicians have always collaborated.

Let me put it another way. This is not all theory, so let's go back and we'll finish. New York City, they're not going to get away with doing it. But let's remember Get away with doing what? With ending the gifted programs in the schools. But they want to. That's a problem. We have the most powerful people in our city now and

what would they like to do? They want to retaliate against the people who are doing well by taking their stuff away from them. So that only what's going to happen, only like the lower middle class whites who have no choice and Asians will keep their kids in public schools. Everybody will leave the public schools.

You see where this is going. So what I'm saying is not so like just theory. We're living it now and we're moving in that direction, and it needs to be turned around. Somebody on the left needs to say, whoa, no, we're going in the wrong direction here. There's going to be no winners here. Can I say that?

There's that black folks have been going through that throughout. Of course. People trying to stop, trying to impede. Systemically. Systemically and all that. Yes, yes. You know, so. Yeah, so they stop, trying to impede. Systemically. Systemically and all that. You know, so. Yeah, so they should be more sensitive to it. I'm not saying black people should be.

Everybody should be. We don't want to make that. Humans endlessly repeating the same sadistic mistakes. You know, we don't want to do that. Right. Yeah. But. We've learned something from how we did bad to black Americans

but I want that same energy from the people on the right when it comes to black folks right but that's why the Asian thing is again very significant because the Asians have nothing

to do with that they're just immigrants who hear yeah we want your immigrants we want your immigrants wait a second we didn't expect you to come here and actually

like super achieve what the fuck don't you know your place? You can achieve, but you can't super achieve. Get the fuck back where you came from. You've never been followed around an Asian store. Actually, no, I haven't. But I was with, I had a black girlfriend, and I was with her, and I saw it happen. Yeah, it happens.

And I distracted them. I had a best friend. I used to go into GNC and the Pakistani lady would follow me around and he was Italian. You hide all the Magnum condoms. He would be stuffing his

pockets while they were following me around. That's a classic street con thing. You have a black guy and a white guy, but they're actually working together. Then we'd split the supplements. And then the white guy keeps winning, and they never suspect that they're in it together. It's a black guy and a white guy. Three-card Monty. I fell for that a million times.

Yeah, three-card Monty. I guess that's it for today's episode. Special thanks to Marina Franca. Watch her special on all platforms. Dante Nero, the great Keith Robinson, the equally great Mr. Dan Natterman. Thank you very much. Podcast at ComedyCellar.com.

Send your emails. Thank you very much. Good night. Thanks.