The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Mentally Al

Episode Date: September 24, 2021

Al began getting work at comedy clubs and within a year won the $100,000 Comedy Grand Prize on television’s Star Search. Doing the Tonight Show was a childhood fantasy so he auditioned and luckily became one of the last comics to appear with Johnny Carson. He then went on to make a bunch of appearances on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno and the Late Show with David Letterman. He is the subject of a new subject of the documentary, Mentally Al. Jon Fisch is a Comedy Cellar regular and has a new album called HINGED. 

🎵 This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of New York's world-famous comedy cellar, coming at you on Sirius XM 99. Raw dog! And on the Laugh Button Podcast Network, Dan Natterman here. Noam has the night off. Actually, we're recording on a Monday because Wednesday is the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur, so on Mondays, Noam plays music with his band, so he couldn't be with us.

But that's okay because we have a guest host with us. We have John Fish, everybody. Good to be back. Good to be back. Good to be back. John Fish was here recently. He is a comedy cellar regular and an all-around good guy. Perrielle Ashenbrand is with us.

Perrielle wearing her mask because she is being extra cautious because she has an unvaccinated kid at home. She is wearing a K95 mask tonight. Al Lubell joins us, the great Al Lubell, a legend. He joins us all the way via Zoom. Where are you, Al? I am in Los Angeles. He joins us from the City of Angels, Los Angeles, California.

Al Lubell has a documentary out on YouTube. For a mere $3.99, you can rent this documentary. It is a lot of entertainment for the money. It is called Mentally Al, an Intimate Portrait of Cult Comedy Legend Al Lubell. Al Lubell won Star Search in 1988, a $100,000 grand prize, which, by the way, in 1988 was probably like $300,000 today. He is a former lawyer, turned comedian. He has won several prizes at the Edinburgh Comedy Festival.

It's what's it called? The Edinburgh Fringe Festival, which brings together comedians and one-person show artists. Anyway, he's performed there and done quite well. Alou Bell is here with us to talk about his new documentary. Hello, Al. It's been a while. I know it's been a while. One question before I forget. Thank you.

It was very flattering to say the documentary is a lot of entertainment for $3.99. Yes. How much would it have to cost to make it just barely enough entertainment? That's an interesting question. Well, it also depends on your, I mean, were I a billionaire, I might say $1,000 wouldn't really set me back at all. But in my income level, I would say if it were $20, I probably would have just watched the trailer for free and pretend that I saw it.

All right. But let's say you actually did see it and paid the 20 bucks. Would you think it was the entertainment at your income status? Would that have been a good deal to see this documentary for 20 bucks considering the amount of money you have? Well, it would have been it would have been good for me because I know you personally now, but I don't know if I could recommend it to the average person. When Dan and I were talking about it,

I think we ran into each other last night, you said that you laughed more than... Yeah, I laughed out loud more than I would at your average, I don't know, you know, comedy film or, you know, the average thing that I watch that's supposed to be funny. I laughed more at your thing, you know, it might be because you already know me.

Partially it's hard to, it's, it's hard to kind of, you know, imagine if I didn't know you, what it would be, but, but, you know, I mean, you're a funny guy and it's a funny documentary, but also a poignant documentary. It's basically the subtitle of the documentary is the funniest comedian you've never heard of. Right. That's that's sort of the sub. That's how they pitch it. The funniest comedian you've never heard of. And what kind of annoys me about that a little is like one of these problems like i nothing's ever enough for me like so i want to somehow remove get rid of the first letter and never and have it you've ever heard of yes but that that you know it's gonna take me a while to get a documentary about me that says that

you'll have to settle for you've never heard of because al you're you're back on i mean i saw the documentary i saw myself in the documentary it's about a guy that the comics respect or you know they all said say good things about but that never really hit it big that's sort of the that's the idea behind the documentary is this guy you know like sarah silverman and god apatow were seen on the documentary saying yeah i was great we love him you know but he just never he never popped that's sort of the that's sort of the um the idea behind well i learned in therapy i i also suffer from the fear of popping al did you watch it in full um after it came out uh yeah i watched it in full after it came out? Yeah, I watched it in full before it came out, too.

In fact, that's all I do is watch it. I'm curious what your reaction is to it now, watching it now removed. Yeah, it's well, I feel like a little it was recorded five years ago. Like he started following me around in 2016. So I do feel a little it was recorded five years ago like he started following me around in 2016 so i do feel a little uh different from then i do feel bad how angry i got my mother like in a car ride towards did you get to see it yeah i saw it i saw it yeah i told you because i mean i obviously saw it i said it was for the money it was good value nothing i was talking to john i didn't know if john's yes and he agrees with me by the for the money, it's good value. And I forgot your name. Did you get to see it? I watched part of it. I didn't finish it yet, but I've heard really great things about it. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Here's something I feel kind of bad about, like in on the ride to visit my mother in the thing.

I start talking about how she was a really bad mother and she would have failed parenting class. And I was just in a bad mood. I was totally broke. I was hungry. I was, you know, and I was honest. So you're not saying you don't feel that way. You're just saying you shouldn't have said it. Well, yeah, right. I felt that way. But, you know, there's also a part of me that definitely loves my mother. And so, like, I was just angry, you know, like, I think when you're really angry at where you are in your own life, at least for me, I get angry. Yeah, it's a joke in my act. Like, I can't remember what it is now. But, yeah, my joke is when things go really, really good for me, I really, really love myself.

But when things go really, really bad for me, I really, really hate my mother. I think the love does come across also throughout. So if you're worried that it's, yeah, I think as someone that's watching it, you know that that's, you know, probably something like you said, maybe he's a little grumpy and hungry or something. As I said, I saw a lot of myself, because I feel like you and I are very similar in terms of,

you know, respect from our peers, but not necessarily raging success. And I wondered your, your documentary is called mentally Al. I wonder if there's going to be a Dan and out documentary about me at some point. Very funny.

Thank you. But, but, but also the lawyer comparison. That's how I found out. I'm also a ex-lawyer. A comedian, ex-lawyer and ex-law professor told me about when we were coming up with stuff. I think I want to show off my memory. Dan, I believe you went your first year. It was at Fordham Law School.

Yeah, that's where I went for three years. Actually, I never practiced law, but I was at Fordham when I started doing comedy, and I never actually practiced. Did you actually take the bar exam? I took the bar past it, like most people do, and just started temping right after that because I didn't want to have a career because I wanted to be a comic. I realize, John, you were a teacher? No, I worked with kids on a psych psych ward uh beforehand but jesus christ yeah yeah i did jesus christ was there a couple times actually

uh al one thing that struck me is um in the documentary sarah silverman says the comics all love him and every comic knows he's funny but the powers that be never got behind him or something like that, right? Right. And I said to myself, yeah, but aren't the powers that be, aren't you the powers that be? You know, I mean, like a lot of comics, are the powers that be.

Oh, well, Sarah's done things for me. She's gotten me in places. I can't remember off the top of my, because I'm fasting right now, by the way. Can you tell I'm fasting? No. No. But we can tell you're mad at your mom.

Do you guys know about this whole intermittent fasting thing? Yes, yes, we do. Do you do it? But I would, well, I have done it, but I don't want to, I do want to stick to. Let me just say my brain is not, maybe my memory, because I fast now for 20 hours but i was afraid to eat right before the podcast because then i get weak from digestion you know i'm saying

the blood goes to digestion so i'm okay mentally but i'm trying to think sarah has gotten gigs before i mean she's done things i mean and just the fact that she has been in the documentary my god had tweeted about it and uh judd has tweeted about it and been in it. And you know, these people have, you know, Kevin and Ann, they've done things for me. I mean, if it were me, if I were in that, I would just cut you a check now. Would you, but the question is, would you accept, like, I saw that, I saw that, that scene where you were in the driving a lift, which is honest work, right now No, but if I was in

that income bracket, I probably just say, you know what, here's a hundred K. The question is, is would you take it or would you be too proud? I would feel too guilty to take it. Uh, well, not guilty, but I would feel like it would make me lazy. You know, it just give into whatever I, I remember when I was, I was 24 years old, I remember getting the thought, I need a major trauma to hit me because I won't do anything unless I'm in a traumatic state. I won't do anything unless I'm terrified. And if it's too easy for me, I just won't do anything until it gets tough. So someone giving me $100,000 would just be really prolonging my suffering to when the suffering has to happen.

Cause I don't think they'll give me the second hundred grand. Yeah, probably not. If you burn through the first hundred grand and you were just hanging out all day by the pool, but, uh, but you don't seem that like, you know, the documentary, uh, talks a lot about the fact that, okay, he never made it big, quote unquote. You were on, you know, assistance at some one point in your life, public assistance. And also, even before that, I was on private assistance.

But you see, you have a great sense of humor about it. I never there were a few moments in the documentary where you just seem a little bit angry. But in general, you didn't seem upset by it. There were a few moments in the documentary where you just seem a little bit angry, but in general, you didn't seem upset by it. You didn't seem terribly unhappy. That's a very good observation of your point. I mean, do you think that's accurate? Yeah. You know what? Because I think sometimes it can sound like an excuse, but I really mean it when I say half of me, at least, doesn't want to be successful. Like I'm ambivalent about it.

And I never knew what the word ambivalent really meant until I looked it up about 10 years ago. I always heard the word and I thought I kind of, it means strong feelings on both sides. It doesn't, you know, and so I have a really strong feeling of not wanting to grow up. I'm terrified of it because to me, growing up means I'm on the way to death. If I don't grow up, if I don't hit adulthood, I never hit deadhood. To me, it's childhood, adulthood, deadhood. Now, granted, you can go childhood to deadhood, but, you know, I don't think like that. I think I'm going to get adulthood in there, you know? So I figure if I postpone adulthood, I don't hit deadhood. And I know that's why I never want to grow up because more than anything i'm terrified about death

That's the biggest thing for me. So half of me is thrilled. I'm not successful because I Equate success with the step the next step towards death So that's why in the documentary i'm not all that upset where I am Because there's a huge part of me that doesn't want success because i'm scared of it But you also said you don't want success because in the documentary, because you don't think you deserve it. Right. There's another part of me, too. Yeah. I think low self-esteem just from being such a brat, like and again, I blame my mother for this, really. But she so spoiled me and I was such a brat and angry. You're an animal. You're a brat. She's great. You know, and she cursed at me, too. I don't want to curse on this podcast, but she did not that much. She cursed, but she would curse.

Anyway, my point is that I think I had low self-esteem. Because you get a little self-esteem when you take out the garbage. You take out the garbage, you make your bed. You get a little self-esteem. I never had to make my bed. I never took out the garbage. So I never had that pumped up self-esteem of, wow, I just did that. I took out the garbage. I never took out the garbage. So I never had self-esteem. Only self-esteem I had was my mother telling me, you're the greatest, you're the best. So in my mind, somewhere I had I'm the best, but in my mind I also had low self-esteem from seeing such a brat and an animal and a tyrant.

A tyrant, I forced my mother to serve me food in bed. I'd be lying in bed and she'd bring in the tuna fish sandwich to me while I'm lying in bed. So I had low self-esteem. I didn't know I had low self-esteem back then, but when I grew up, I had it in me. And so there's a part of me doesn't feel, how can a guy that was a tyrant and demanded his mother serving food in bed and demanded she changed my TV channel for me? How can a guy like that really feel he deserves to be a star? I don't even know if I deserve to be a human.

Well, ironically, that's what stars do now. Oh, I know. And exactly. I already did it. Bring me the tuna. I know. I already did it, so I almost feel guilty for having done it. So I don't even want to do it now.

But how old were you when you were demanding those things? I mean, you were a child, right? No, I think until 17. Okay, but that's... My mother was serving me food in bed and changing the TV channel for me. I mean, you were a child, right? No, I think until 17. Okay. My mother was serving me food in bed and changing the TV channel for me. And again, I'm not quite sure about this because my memory is not that clear about it. But I remember lying in bed watching the Watergate hearings, you know, at 17. And, you know, I'm not so sure.

I don't know. I just never had to do anything. You know, there was no family dinner. You know, my father worked nights. I once tried to get him to like, he was off Wednesday and Thursday. So I demanded, I was always afraid to demand anything to my father. Weren't that we keep occasionally like catch with me, but my mother was my slave. My father really wasn't my slave. By the way, just doing some quick calculations. You said you were 17 and watergate uh you look great i was afraid you were gonna do that well i'm not i'm not gonna i mean a very rough calculation of how old you are but you look fantastic

maybe there's something to this not growing up because you look really really good i mean i would have thought you were maybe just a few years older than i am i think but but you're about you're you're about 14 years older than i am yeah yeah i know well thank you i mean i think uh i don't know i mean i guess some of it's genetic and some of it's uh the fear of growing up maybe and some of it's how's the hip that's a follow-up from the documentary your hip was injured same thing i'm afraid it's not injured it's got he's got a genetic condition well it's well it's both well yeah it's i have a thing called hip dysplasia have you heard of that dogs are known for it especially like you know badly formed but humans have it too but anyway my point is they're badly formed hips from birth and i was warned when i got into my

50s i'm probably gonna need hip replacement because i never limped as you know you saw me in new york i never. I used to play basketball. But I went bone on bone in my right hip 10 years ago. But the weird thing about it is I'm not in pain. Like most everybody, bone on bone is in pain. And I'm on no medication. I limp because of the bone on bone. But again, it's my fear of death.

I'm afraid of hip replacement. Because even though I know it's a very safe surgery, they're fantastic at it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm afraid I'm going to be the one guy that dies, you know? And so I'm afraid to get major surgery. That's the childish part of me, you know? But I do yoga every morning. I do certain yoga that really for an hour called the Agosku method, a thing, you know,

that they designed. And it helps me walk a lot better than I used to walk. And I'm trying to, if I can do it every day and at night, I'm supposed to do another two hours of a certain thing with them. If I could put together two weeks in a row, I really, of every day, morning and night, I want to see how good I can get. Because I noticed real improvements, even when I do three days in a row of the morning and night at it. So I want to try to be the guy that breaks the rule and doesn't need hip replacement. Al, so where are things at now with the documentary? Are you making money?

Is it successful or it just came out? So I guess we don't necessarily know, but do you sense of of of how it's going in terms of viewers? I have a sense it's going well. The thing is, they've and again, now I'm being neurotic. I don't know if they want me talking about it this way. But yeah, I'm sure they didn't tell me not to. Anyway, my point is that they try to sell it to Netflix and Netflix was interested. They said, well, no one knows this guy. Right. Which is kind of ironic, right?

Because the documentary, there wouldn't be a documentary if everyone knew me. Right. There's a whole point of the documentary. Right. Right. And so like if everyone knew me and they did a documentary about a guy that no one knows, you should argue there should be a documentary about them being so idiotic to do that documentary but my point is so you know netflix passed on it also the big festival like sundance and uh what do you call it south by southwest they passed on it right

so it's been in a lot of like good festivals but smaller than that like i'm trying to remember the one in june it was in gasparilla which is a nice festival in tampa but anyway my point is it's been in a lot of they're trying for three months and also is with comedy dynamics which is a very good company that picked it up so they've put it on all these platforms like you said on like amazon and youtube where you could buy it. So they're trying, I believe the plan is to try to get enough interest in the next three months on these platforms to then go to Netflix and say to them, Hey, look at the interest it's having. So there's really no way of knowing, I think for like two, three months, how much interest it does have.

Well, what are you hoping to get from it? Apropos of what we were saying about your fear of success. I mean, do you, do you find yourself fantasizing about where this could lead or are you hoping to get from it? Apropos of what we were saying about your fear of success, do you find yourself fantasizing about where this could lead, or are you afraid of where this could lead? Where do you want it to lead, if anywhere? Well, as we all know, we have a left hemisphere and a right hemisphere of the brain, so I think my hemispheres are torn on this. No, I don't know. I mean, part of me is happy for for it and part of me is scared of it

and you know rich scheider made a really good point you know rich i'm a very funny comic he's doing actually a thing called the history of stand-up comedy he has a short a tour but anyway my point is he made some comment today at facebook uh out something about like you know you've avoided acceptance as a comedian for so long and now that that you're going to, it seems like you're closer to acceptance. This might be a problem for you or something. And I wrote insightful yet painful. It's not like that because what I can't remember the, but I found it insightful and painful. Yeah. I'm torn, you know, like, part of me is like actually happy. I think for this to be successful,

you know why? Because I've always been like a last minute kind of guy. Like I never did anything until maybe y'all can relate to this too, until like the exam was coming up. I never studied until the exam was coming up. And I feel like the exam and life is coming up because I'm getting to the end of life. And so now I'm more happy with success because I realize I'm at the end. So I'm getting close to the end, you know, so I'm more happy for it to answer your question. But what about when you won Star Search in 1988? That was a real moment of success. You won $100,000 in 1988, which, like I said, is probably $300,000 today.

And so that and you were a young guy in 1988 is 30. Well, how, I mean, I was 31 at the time. Yeah. You were, that's pretty young. And, um, so you had real success. So how did that, what effect did that have on you at that time? I remember thinking I have to 40 now to become a success. I remember thinking I gave myself nine years. And then each decade I give myself another nine. But you had success. I mean, wouldn't you qualify that as success to win the star search a hundred thousand dollar prize at still a reasonably young age of 31. Right. That was successful, but you know, honestly, and not to knock stars.

I mean, I was glad to do star search, but I felt I've always, I was always afraid of success, right? And the thing I liked about Star Search was you only had two minutes on the show to do your thing. And so I felt that's a good way to break into doing television. I don't have to worry about six minutes on The Tonight Show. I just have two minutes. And when I first did Star Search, I didn't think I'd necessarily get past the first round

because I remember the name of the comic, Pace a New York comic like he had won the previous round and something or run and wanted to he was the favorite I felt because he had a very strong visual act you know I think some props and like for two minutes it's better maybe to have visual you know I didn't expect to win so I didn't feel pressure you know I liked being the underdog. And so then I did win. And then I didn't think I'd necessarily win the next one. And then I started winning. I actually liked it winning because I'm a fearful person. But if you introduce me to something that I might be afraid of, but then I like it, then I want to keep doing it. So then I wanted to keep winning. Right. And so I ended up winning. But then I wasn't that afraid of winning. Why? Because it wasn't network TV. It wasn't the tonight, you know, it was still syndicated television. I was less afraid of it. No offense against star search, but it was like, to me, a little more practice television. It wasn't like Johnny Carson, which did scare me. I did that three years later. And that really scared me because that was a guy I grew up watching and that was network television. And that was. And that can be considered success. Did you consider that success?

Yes, but I was scared. I mean, I was scared of it. That was success. But then again, Johnny was retiring. So I was a little maybe less terrified, like if Johnny was staying, maybe I'd be more scared. Oh, my God, what can that lead to? But then it luckily led to Leno. Leno watched it and got in touch with me and said, I really liked your spot on the Tonight Show. And then I did like six Lenos and then I did five Lettermans, but I was scared all the way. I was scared all the way, but the more I did things, the less scared I got. You know, it's interesting you bring up the fear of success because i just wrote a novel uh called iris bureau before covid which is available on amazon and uh again i what what's iris bureau before covid iris bureau yes that's the name of the novel iris bureau before covid

and what is iris bureau that's the guy's name uh how do you spell it ira ira spiro s-p-i-r-o ira spiro before covid that's the name of the novel but the main character the whole theme of the of the book is a guy with a fear of success so that's at least a major theme now i have another fear you've stolen from me well no i mean after me having with well fear of success is a, is a fairly common phenomenon and I'm not even convinced you have it, but you know, but you, you, you might think that you have it, but Ira Spiro really does. So it's just interesting that we're talking, when I saw the documentary, I'm like, well, this is like my book.

It's available. As I said, on Amazon for, for a four 99 on Kindle, it's available as i said on amazon oh my god for for uh 4.99 on kindle it's a very good deal just like your documentary is a very good deal now if you can only afford one i say you got to go with the book but both are actually you have the gall to charge a buck more for your book than i charge for my documentary you guys should do a two for one well the book provides you with five hours of entertainment at an average reading pace. Maybe six. Your documentary provides

an hour and a half of entertainment. So I don't know. You're forgetting a thing. A picture's worth a thousand words. I have 90,000 words. Yeah, you probably, you know, if we're going to stick to that formula. But a picture's worth a thousand words.

A video might be worth well more. Exactly. So I don't know. You know, that's what it costs. And it's also $14.99 in paperbacks. So that's an even good deal. Yeah, that's excellent. Congratulations.

You did that. Well, thank you. Thank you. Sales have been a little down this week. So I'm relying on our listeners to, to, to let's get those numbers up. I'm trying to be like, you know, I'm trying to be like a shameless, like, you know, the, these guys that are successful in comedy, they believe in themselves and they, and they think you need to buy my product.

I never thought that way. So I'm trying to fake it. Same with me. I have a big time self-promoting. It's just like I try to avoid it. I'm insecure. Well, maybe you're not as insecure as you are sane. There's something insane about some of these people that just, you got to buy it.

We're going to be number one. Some of these guys, they have an album out or they have a movie film out. Come on, you got to make us number one. We're going to be number one. They say we. It's like we're number we're gonna be number one some of these guys like you know they have an album out or they have a movie film come on you gotta make us not we're gonna be number they say we like it's like we're all in it together even though he's making all the money come on let's get to number one we can do it guys they say to their fans like we can get the number one it's like who's we you're getting all the money right but but that's how people do a lot you know that's like, anyway. Was I, as I had a question. Oh, yeah.

So the documentary you talk about also about like how your act is, you're not a mainstream act. You know, you're very, very unique. And you seem to be a little bit angry. Like I said, in the parts of the documentary, you seem content with things. In other parts, you seem a little bit angry in parts of the, like I said, in the parts of documentary, you seem content with things and other parts you seem a little bit angry. And you talk about how, yeah, these guys that you can please everybody, they get ahead. And me, I, I'm a little different and interesting and unique and that's, you know, half the audience loves me, but half the audience doesn't love me. And you can't get work like that. You need to please everybody.

Yeah. I mean, not every. I mean, there are some comedians that find their own audience and they're not pleasing everybody, but they manage to get enough people to just come to see their show. And they're doing well without pleasing everybody. But I also feel bad like, you know, I'm not attacking comedians that please everybody, because I think there are comedians who inherently are pleasing. They're more regular people. And when they express themselves honestly, they are pleasing everybody because they are really more regular humans that are part of society. I had a twisted, crazy childhood, so I'm a little weirder. But some people didn't have a twisted, crazy childhood.

They're people and they express themselves honestly and they please everybody. And I was just in a bad mood that I was struggling there, but I shouldn't be knocking other people that naturally please everybody that they're very healthy, great comedians that do that. And I remember going up to Montreal comedy works, Jimbo's yes. Oh no. You know, Comedy Works, Jimbo's. Yes. You know, and every time I went up there. Jimbo loved, loved, loved Al LaBelle.

And he was a real champion of you. And so were there more places like that where, because you had mentioned that you had a hard time, you know, getting booked at a lot of places, but were there a few places other than his place that, that welcomed you over and over again and gave you a home? No, no. He was one of the few. No, I, you know, actually I think there were, but it doesn't Jimbo totally comes to mind as being the guy. And I remember thinking there must be one other, cause I remember thinking,

Oh, there is one other place, but I'm trying to remember. But it's pretty rare. And I think so. No offense to the other people that have been very supportive, because I know there have been a couple of a few others that have. But I remember thinking, you know, why was it Jimbo? I think, you know, actually, he's not totally Canadian. I think he's also born maybe right just below Canada or something. but but there's something about canadian audiences i always did a little better with because i think canadian audiences had a have a better attention span in general uh even if they don't like you they will politely not even i don't even think they're trying to be polite but they won't talk during your act so much. They just will express their lack of liking you by not laughing. But too often in America, if they don't like you, they will not only not laugh, they will talk to their neighbor and ruin the rest of your act.

Or they'll heckle you. I'd almost rather they heckle, at least there's interaction. But most of the time in America a lot, they'll start talking to each other and so what they're doing is passively aggressively either they're being ignorant they don't realize how much they're hurting my act because i need people to listen to me before they'll laugh and by them talking they're distracting other people from listening right so they're either purposely doing it or not realizing they're doing it and so i have bigger problems in america because as you guys know as comics all you need is one person talking loud in the audience and they ruin your act unless you're

a loud comic that's screaming over them they completely one person could destroy you you know we're in canada it's less likely and even less likely in canada is why i moved to england i don't know if you guys know for four years i know you were in england for a while yeah yeah before you even there they're even more less likely to ruin your act. They just won't laugh. They may not laugh. They have a better attention span, I think, than even Canada. And in general, they won't,

maybe they'll heckle you, which is a good thing. But in general, they'll, you know, they'll have a bigger attention span. It's better for a guy like me that needs to explain himself a little more. I hardly ever vote, you know, because I just don't think my vote counts. My vote doesn't count.

My friend, my friend, he says to me, what if everyone didn't vote because they felt their vote didn't count? I said, well, then my vote would count. Because unfortunately for me, I'm not just very lazy, I am extremely lazy, extremely. For example, I was in a department store, right? And they had a big sale going on, and they had a sign saying, take 30% off. But I'm thinking, you take it off.

Let me just say this. The negative to England is they're less in touch with narcissism because they're less narcissistic than us. And a lot of my actors joke about being narcissists. So they don't quite get it, maybe the absurdity. But in some ways they do get it because they know Americans are known for narcissism. But also the negative to England is they don't express themselves quite as with such big laughs as Americans. And they don't.

Oh, yes, indeed. Right. And so quite so, um, I want to, I want to take issue with something you said, or at least disagree, um,

which I guess is the same thing as take issue. Um, you said you have nothing against comics that please everybody. I'm going to quarrel with you a little bit on that. I, I think I do have something against comics that please everybody. I think if you please everybody, I mean, maybe it's possible to please everybody and be interesting and unique, but I think in general it is not.

I think comics that are truly interesting and unique, they might please a lot of people. But I saw the late Mitch Hedberg bomb many a time, right here in New York City, right here at the Comedy Cellar. And he was known for that. You'd hear stories like,

yeah, Mitch, he bombed here, he bombed there. You know, David Tell usually kills. That's true. He usually does kill. But there's also people that are like, no. You know, Jim, the comics that I like to watch, Jim Norton, who's out there talking about, you know, transsexuals. There's going to be people that are offended by that, about his love for transsexuals, I should say. So I think in general, I think in general, if you please everybody, I don't think that's good.

John, what do you say? I've heard that. And, yes, it is. You're saying if you're pleasing everyone, you're just going down the middle. It's milquetoast. I think you're probably not that unique or interesting. Right, right. Yeah.

Sure. Yeah. The goal is to be totally yourself and hope that enough people identify with that and you create a following. So in essence, everybody in the audience likes you. So what do you think about that? I mean, your goal is to be different enough to get enough people to come to your shows.

Right. If you please everybody, if everybody likes you, probably no one's going to your shows. Right. Like if you please everybody, you know, one's if, if everybody likes you, probably no one's going to love you. You know what I mean? Like if everybody,

you know what I'm saying? If everybody likes you, there's probably no one's going to be like, Oh my God. Then no one's going to worship you. No one's going to think that what you're saying is profound. And I mean, maybe,

maybe, maybe that's not a universal, but I think Pearl shaking her, her duck bill face. Cause she's wearing the mask. So she looks like a duck. I mean, maybe that's not a universal, but I think, Peril's shaking her duck bill face because she's wearing the mask, so she looks like a duck. I mean, I'm thinking of somebody like Dave Chappelle. I mean, people love him, adore him. I'm not saying people don't love him, but is everybody going to love him? Is he going to go on a cruise ship and kill there?

Probably, but until like 4 in the morning also. Also, I mean, I don't know. Is he going to kill in front of Jim Gaffigan's crowd? And is Jim Gaffigan going to kill in front of his crowd? In front of Chappelle's crowd? That's an interesting point. I don't know. Also, it's not a good

comparison when you're talking about people that already are famous. Because they get that benefit of the doubt as well. Well, they also get their audiences. Al, you said this in the documentary. Famous people get people that come to see them. So the audience already loves them.

You and I get whoever's there. So you were making the point, you know what I'm saying? Right. But let me just say this. I don't know. But I don't know if the goal should be to be so different. And the goal is to be different. I think that's the goal, but I'm saying the comics that I, yeah. The goal is to be yourself. And what if you, you yourself are, uh,

in every, like a person that just like a normal person, you know, that, uh, I don't think you should force it to be so different because then it's not you anymore. But I don't, I think if you're normal, I think you have to be comedy. What's that? If you're that normal, you're probably not doing stand up comedy. Yeah, I don't think you should be normal in this business. I mean, I don't think I can't think of anyone who's like, you know, you guys being prejudiced against normal people.

I mean, no, no. Normal people have their place. You're not here. What you're going to do is you're going to incite a whole prejudice against normal people? No, no, normal people have their place, but it's not here. What you're going to do is you're going to incite a whole prejudice against normal people. You're going to make normal people incredibly neurotic, and then they'll have a unique act. That would be ironic.

But we're not prejudiced against normal people. We just feel that they have their place, and there are many wonderful things that they bring to the table. But how can you say point blank that normal people don't have a good sense of humor? Well, they might have a good sense of humor, but I mean, to be a comedian, I don't know. You know, I think you'd have a I think you'd have a hell of a time being an effective comedian if you were normal. Right. Well, maybe that at least the committee better because they have this huge challenge were normal. Right. Well, maybe that would make you better

because they have this huge challenge being normal. They have to become even better. So they become an unbelievable normal comedian. Can you name an example of that? Not one. Well, I don't know them well, but you can think about people that are, you know, we look at our specific lives sometimes as not so normal.

Other comics might look at the world, the chaos of the world, like a Hasan Minhaj, right? He's, I don't know him well, but he seems fairly normal. But he's looking at the world and he's commenting on the world as opposed to... Well, then his abnormality might be in the way he sees things or in his insightfulness. Yes. So that could be an abnormality if you're incredibly. I haven't seen him in a while. I'm not that familiar with his work.

But here's the thing. I think that all of you and maybe not so much you, John, have a really warped sense of success because you're so inside of it. So like this idea of like being afraid of being successful. And you and I have talked about this before, Dan, that I mean, people who aren't successful don't have documentaries made about them, Mr. Lubel. Well, sure they do. No, they don't. I mean, people who aren't, like, fascinating. Fascinating, yes. Fascinating, yes. Or, I mean, they don't have people like, as you mentioned, Sarah.

There have been documentaries made about serial killers. Are they successful people? Well, yeah, if you're a serial killer, by definition. I guess they're successful in their field. In their field. And just by being a serial killer, right? You have to have killed, I mean, over, I think, 10 people. So you're doing really well.

I think it's harder to be a successful comedian or a successful serial killer. Somebody has a joke about that. Well, successful meaning you never got caught. That's probably very difficult. Although I'm told serial killers often want to get caught. But anyway, so Perrielle, you look at Al Lubell as successful. Of course. I mean, he's had an amazing career by, like, any standard. We just had this conversation recently, and you said that the nature of human beings is that they're always looking up, right? When I've said your career is incredible,

like by a standard of success in comedy, and you said, no, no, no, I thought it was going to be this, and I thought it was going to be that, and I'm always looking up because that's the nature of human beings. You don't pay attention to what's down there. Well, that's true, you know. Right, but I'm trying to give you guys a little bit of perspective. No, but that's true.

But there is such a huge level between, you know, thank you for saying that. But, you know, again, I don't even know if I want something like superstardom. But there's such a huge level between the superstar comedians. Sure. And me and, you know, Dan and dan and john you know no offense to throw well you guys it was kind of saying anyway my point is it's the superstar comedians and it's the star comedians below them and you know there's a huge difference between that and so it does weigh on your mind a little you know but uh again i'm not that you know i am upset half of me is upset and the other half

is not people are looking at you and being like holy shit this guy did leno and letterman and carson and that's like a huge mark of like a dream for people thank you that's very nice but you know i'll be on again i shouldn't say i'll be honest because that implies this whole time up to that you finally broke me down i'm gonna be honest, because that implies this whole time up to now. You finally broke me down. I'm going to be honest. That's what I'm here for. But honestly, I'm pretty well sure,

because I could tell I've been working harder lately, and it's only because I'm getting older, and I know the end's coming. So I know. If I had worked, I know I didn't work my hardest the first 35 years I've been doing it. I know it because I was afraid. I didn't want it. I was afraid to make it.

I was afraid. Maybe I was also afraid to try my hardest and fail. Oh, my God, that, you know, who knows? But whatever the fears were, I did not come close to my hardest. Now, let me also say this. I did work damn hard when I got ready for the first Tonight Show because it was a big moment. I couldn't have worked harder. But could I have been a more emotionally grown up?

Yes, I wasn't. I was still a child. So I'd only let myself work so hard because I was emotionally a child. And also, I didn't have the relationships you might want. And I don't know. I didn't whatever a child like me could put in for 100 percent. I did. But the first, you know, Leno, I worked my ass off.

The first Letterman, I worked my ass off. But again, but then only when I had like big things I had to prepare for. But when I didn't have a big thing, I wouldn't work. When other guys were 100% committed to fame and stardom, I think they consistently worked whether they had a big deadline or not. Well, I don't know. Sorry. I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, i read somewhere some article it said you know we typically think that people succeed because they work hard but actually people work hard because they succeed i don't know how much truth there is to that but i i think there's some truth to it i think when you're encouraged yes you're told we're going to give you a a sitcom but you got to show up every day and work the whole day and memorize your life. You would have done that if somebody had said to you, you know, we're going to give you a special on Netflix, but you've got to come up with the hour. You would have probably come up with it. So I think that also reminds. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. This reminds me this conversation about that book, The Four Tendencies, that I think we talked about before, Peril,

where certain people are motivated by external versus internal factors. And it sounds like, much like myself, Al, you less so with the internal, more the external. You have a Tonight Show set, you're going to get ready for it. But I do think that everybody responds to encouragement. You know, if you've written several screenplays and none of them sold, you're less likely to write another screenplay. But if your first screenplay or your second screenplay did sell, there's a better chance you're going to write a third and a fourth. That's a certain people.

Well, I think everybody it responds to that now there might be people that can just keep beating their head against a wall uh and with no results but i'm just gonna go take a nap you know after a certain point and like you know so i'm without uh yeah i remember dan i don't know if you remember saying this to me i was working on a one-man show at Stand Up New York, that theater upstairs, you know, back in like 2009. I remember that. The show was emotionally, I was wiped out after seeing that show. I think you told me about that.

I'm mostly drained. In fact, I remember halfway through my show, I started talking about the fact that my mother wiped me until I was 12. Did I tell you? Yeah, yeah, I remember that. By the way, is that mentioned in the doc? That's in the doc, yeah. Yeah. Oh, so it's already out there.

Anyway, no, but my point is, I remember I brought that up in the one-man show. There's only 15 people in the crowd. Dan's in the crowd. I bring that. I hear from Dan. Oh, no! I don't remember that, but it certainly could be. Not could be. Was. Okay. I remember

it, you know, and it didn't, I just Oh, no, you just like, that was that broken for you. I guess like, you know, as I can relate what you're saying, you probably were like I can't believe. And then the white needle 12 got funny when my, my point is, what age?

He's in the middle of a point. Oh, no, my little point was that, uh, very nice of them at stand up New York. You let me use, I don't know if I should,

I did my one man show in his theater that next door to the stand up New York in 2009 and 10. And I ran into you outside the show. You didn't come to that one man show. You came to my one man show in the early two thousands, I think. But anyway, that show you happen to just be outside of you. And they've been doing a standup spot at standup New York. I ran into you outside. I remember you said to me, Al,

and at that point I was getting no spots, you know, anywhere in the city. So I just said, screw it. I'm just doing my own one man show every week at this theater. So I stopped doing standup for like four or five months, right? Anyway, I remember you said to me, I don't know if you remember this, Dan. You said, when you said we meant your fellow comics, we don't think you've been treated fairly by the community, the stand-up comedy community.

And I felt that was good to hear that. Like you were kind of telling me, and again, maybe I'm wrong. The implication was I didn't get what I was due. That was your phrase. You didn't get what you were due. Based on how good you due that was your phrase you didn't get what you were due based on how good you were as a comic you didn't get what you were due do you remember saying that i don't remember saying that i said that about myself i also asked to put it in writing and you did so i will i tend to think that you know you said in the documented no one's do anything you're perfectly right right you know except i do tend to think that way in my in my in my more angry moments that you know but um but i wanted to because i just wanted to say well first of all i just want to say

i would always stay in the room when you were on stage i i loved love watching you when you were in new york city i don't get to see you on stage i i loved love watching you when you were in new york city i don't get to see you obviously now but i always love watching you you're so funny my one question i want to ask before i had to have to run is though you're talking about half of you like you know wanting success and half of you not do you want to work on that half that doesn't or you like this struggle or do you know like my mom is afraid of cats but she's never gonna go deal with it she's just resigned to being like that's how i will live my life afraid of cats do you want to live your life with half of you pulling you one way and half of you pulling

yourself the other no i as i know i i do want to work on that fearful part because only because i'm getting to the end here and And I do want to experience other things. And I don't want to die without having tried harder. Well, your mother lived till 95. By the way, condolences because she did. It said at the end of the documentary that she had passed. But she was 95. I know.

And I do think that sometimes. I have a lot more years to not do it. So genetically speaking, you may ultimately, even if you don't out-succeed your fellow comedians, you might outlive them. You know, if that's any consolation, you might live to pee on their graves. I don't know if that's any...

That's true, but Dan, you haven't thought enough. But Dan, you have not thought enough about me. Have you thought about when my father died? No, I hadn't thought about that you've already cleared that barrier he he died yeah i've cleared that's a good point but yeah he died at 60 but you know you've got to kind of average the genetics in me but when you need somewhere you get most of your health from your mother but what did he die of what did he die of

what did he die of yeah he had bladder cancer when he was like 55, but he died of a stroke at 60. And they said that the doctor said it may have very well been related to the chemo. So I don't know if it was related to that or just he had a regular stroke. But did he have any risk factors for bladder cancer that you don't have? He was a big smoker until he was 30. He was a big smoker. So that might be the reason. True.

Now, how long did his parents live? Yeah. His father lived to like 105. Okay. But his mother died at like, I think she had a stroke in 78 and died at like 83. So it's mixed. It's all mixed. Well, it seems to me, and when you go to the doctor, are all the blood pressure and all the numbers, the cholesterol. Is everything in the green? Is everything where it should be? Yeah, actually the doctor said to me he was like, I need nothing, no statins.

He's like my age and he said, I'm jealous. You're way healthier than I am. So there you have it. I think the conclusion is that indeed you've inherited your mother's health and could go to 95 and beyond. True. And I like to ask lawyers like two ex doctors. But I can do my own research, John, which people talk about these days.

But I could also die with incredibly good numbers. You well, anything could happen. But I think. Thanks. I think that, by the way, Nicole, are you there? I don't know if you want to stop and join us. I don't know if you've been listening and if you find this, how are you finding this conversation? This is really interesting. I mean, even for the aforementioned normal people, I feel like that feeling of resisting success is so common, even with like, if you get a new opportunity or a new relationship,

you kind of naturally sabotage that. And I, by the way, I write about that in my book, Iris Spiro before COVID available on Amazon. Let's get those. Let's get to number one guys. We can do it. We can, we can have the number one book on, on Amazon. I have a question. I didn't mean to interrupt earlier. No, go ahead.

What age are you supposed to stop wiping your child's butt? I would assume well before 12. Yeah, well before 12, sure. I checked into it. I think it's something like three or something. That sounds about right, about three. I don't know any three or four year olds that wipe their own butts well it's certainly not 12. that we can no no no 100 i mean not 12. you know you shouldn't be you

know doing algebra homework after your mother wipes your ass i i agree i mean were you wiping your own butt when you were four years old i don't recall my memories of being four are rather vague. I remember the flight I took to St. Thomas, but I don't recall who wiped my ass, you know, during my trip there. What's that? Oh, you're joking. You mean like that you were a pilot? No, I went on a family trip to St. Thomas. That's one of my earliest memories is my first flight,

which was like 1973 after the big ice storm that year. Because my mother's like, she'd had it with bad weather. So we went to St. Thomas. Well, if you really try to pry your memory open on that, it could help you know. Because do you have any memories of using the toilet on the plane? I don't. It's hard to get your mother to wipe your butt on, to fit her in the toilet on the plane. So you might have a distinct memory of wiping your own butt on the plane.

I don't, though. And I can only say that I was well before 12 when I stopped. If you had to really guess. You know, I went to summer camp, Al, when I was sleep away, when I was 10. And so I didn't hold it in for six weeks. All right. So unless the counselor did it. I'm pretty sure I did it myself. Definitely 10. No.

I think it was four or three. It was probably in that area. Okay. You know, what's interesting is I went to sleep away camp too. I was not ready to do it. Like, I remember I was, what was I? I was 11. And I only went because my neighbors, Lisa and Jill went. And Lisa was a year younger than me. And Jill was four years younger than me. And I was like, my pride was injured that these girls that are younger than me are going. I have to go too. And I was not ready to

go. Because when I went there, I started crying like a lunatic. I was so scared. And I never heard cursing before. I guess I remember I never heard curse. The boys in the bunk were cursing. I was terrified. I started crying like such a lunatic. My parents came. I demanded they come and take me home. So they did. Well, I'm cutting the story. I don't want to make too long a story. They, they, my father said, stick it out, be a man, be a man. So I tried to be man. I lasted one more day and then I cried again and they came in and he said, he took me back. Anyway, I, two years later, I went, the bottom line is I was a bedwetter until I was 14. Okay. And every morning I would change my sheets in the morning and I put them out to hang dry so no one would know I was a bedwetter. But my parents came halfway up there. Halfway when I was there,

they took me to a hotel for one night, halfway through the sleepaway camp thing. And I forgot to change the sheets. And when I came back, someone tried to sleep in my bed and they all found out I was a bedwetter. It was devastating. I was 14, but luckily that stopped me from bedwetting. The humiliation of them catching me. I didn't know humiliation was a cure for bedwetting. Yeah. Yeah. For me it was. I was 14. Let's clarify. You, you, you didn't wipe your ass. You wipe, your mother wiped your ass at 12, but you could, you probably,

it wasn't every time. Sometimes it was you. Yeah, I have no memory, but I must have wiped my own ass sometimes. You're right, because I was in sleepaway camp when I was 13 or even that 10 o'clock. You know, when I was 10 years old in sleepaway camp, 11, I must have wiped my ass those two nights I was there.

By the way, I'm reading an article that that she knows.com i'm reading an article that periel just handed me online now of course you can read everything online but it says here don't stress if you're still wiping your child's bottom when they're six eight ten or twelve but do them and yourself a favor and take the time to teach them how to do it themselves well uh okay i you know i mean need to verify, but I don't know where you, there's also places online where the Jews, you know, control the weather. So I don't know that that's valid just because you read it, but we can research that further. And, you know, I do want to say, what was I going to say about it? The only thing I'm really grateful for the, I kind of tell it as a

joke, a little in my act, but I have a feeling I gave in to my mother and started wiping myself. I enjoyed the forcing her to do it. You know, like the I didn't like Stuart from Family Guy. I never watched it. I don't watch. I didn't want to do it. It's like very demanding that that they wipe his ass. Did you have siblings? No, only child. Same.

So it's kind of like a sadomasochistic relationship with my mother, you know, like trying to give her, she called me a brat. I give her pain and, you know, I enjoyed giving her pain and I enjoyed making her laugh from the pain or whatever. But I think the bar mitzvah is what actually got me stopping demanding it. I was actually, again, humiliation. I felt humiliated, like going in for a bar mitzvah and still having my mother wipe my ass. And I was actually thinking maybe the bar mitzvah evolved from that.

Maybe people, to try to get the Jewish boys to stop demanding. Who knows if they created the bar mitzvah just for that? Well, I tend to doubt it, but it's possible. Nicole, what do you make of all this? Do you have any questions for Al before we go? I don't think so. This has been great.

As our podcast go, where would you rank it? On a scale of one to ten. Well, ten being our best podcast, one being our worst. I feel pretty good about this one. I feel like this is maybe an eight. Which one was a ten? Hmm. I have to check the archives on that one. Which one was a one? Hmm. I have to check the archives on that one.

Which one was a one? Don't say that on air. I just also want to say that the title of the documentary is just brilliant. I don't know who came up with that, but it's so, so good mentally, Al. Thank you. Well, let me say to my friend, Tim Rose came uh and also josh edelman the director josh said he thought josh the director was i played remember the new york comedy club you ever played in boca raton dan yeah i used i used to do yeah that's where josh ended up

seeing me and i must also thank josh for doing a great job with this documentary i thought he did a great job but anyway my point is he saw me as a high school student and really liked me at that club in like 2004. And he wanted to do a documentary on me then. And I didn't want anyone doing one on me. Then I was writing a screenplay, which I finished, but still haven't done anything with. But I thought the documentary could interfere with my screenplay about me. If there's a documentary about me, whatever.

Then he read. So he had that. He said he had the title when he was in high school. But then my friend Tim Rhodes gave me the title. I didn't know about that. Tim Rhodes gave me the title. I didn't know about that. Tim Rhodes gave me the title back in 2013 when I did Edinburgh. So Tim Rhodes thought of it on his own too. So I must thank those people for those.

I would have called it Al's well that ends well. Yes. That's a, and I didn't say, I actually, I don't know if Al's going to be well based on that. I would call it Al's Quiet on the Western Front. Right.

That's a great title, too, because I am quiet on the West. I'm here in L.A. in the West. Yeah. And I'm not getting many spots, and I'm being quiet. But let me just say this. Why did you move? Well, we have to go in just a second. But if you could just bring us up to date on where you're at.

Why did you move back to L.A. from England? You were doing well in England. By the way, I like the way you used we here, because we literally means we in this situation, as opposed to a lot of people say, let's make this a great, we're going to do it. I'm doing a callback to your job. Oh, yeah, okay.

But I feel, let me just say, I feel, I should be happy with the eight out of the 10. I want to thank Nicole. But part of me feels I didn't do my job to make this a 10 out of a 10. And part of me feels bad that I'm caffeinated. I wonder if my caffeinated state. You're the guest. I feel responsible because I'm the ship's captain and I didn't perhaps do my job. If Nicole only thinks of us as an eight,

but I would say to our listeners, you know, you write in at podcast at comedy side.com and give us your number. But before, before we go out, so, so just, can you just briefly quickly tell us where things are at now you're in LA and, and how's things, how are things going? Well, things are going pretty well. I did, Josh put a show on, you know, the Improv Lab. There's a little room next to the main room

at the Improv called the Improv Lab. And so Josh opened for me there Saturday. Who's Josh? Josh, the director of the documentary. He's also a stand-up. Josh opened. Oh, okay, okay. So he sold the room out on Saturday.

So it was a good feeling to play that room. I'm starting to get some more spots around town here in LA. So I'm happy with that. I've had this movie that I've written. It's a, what do you call it? It's based on me, but it's a fictional story. But I'd like to get it made it's meant to be made in la but i still haven't done it i'm procrastinating you know i've had it written for 20 years and i've you know 100 different versions you know it's a good film but you know i guess i

don't get i don't want to sell it to studios because i don't want them to change it are you are you uh do you have a day job now you were were working for Lyft. I don't know if you're still doing it. Right. I was working. Yeah, no, luckily I'm getting by on my own here. I have some stuff playing on Sirius Radio, which is very good. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so I'm getting by with some work and, you know, and so, yeah, I'm getting by and feeling, you know, part of me thinks maybe I'll go back to England because I really feel I improved a lot in England. You know, I was getting more stage time there. And I think just living in another country woke me up as a human being. I became a little more of a human being.

I felt a little more self-esteem because I was thinking even if I'm not getting work here in England, I'm accomplishing the fact that I'm living on a loan in a foreign country. I had self-esteem just from doing that. And that made me, I think, a better person a little and maybe improved my comedy a little. But I think I'd still like to give it a little more shot here. And I think I'm also thinking of coming out to New York. I'm sorry, but there's a part of me that doesn't like living too close to where I grew up. I grew up in Queens.

So part of me, I think my low self-esteem is triggering that if I live close to where I grew up, I didn't really do any. So that triggers my low self-esteem is triggering that if I live close to where I grew up, I didn't really do any. So that triggers my low self-esteem. So I don't know. Well, we'd love to have you here, obviously, but that's your decision to make. We have to go now. Mentally Al is available on YouTube, Amazon Prime, and other platforms.

Just Google Mentally Al. You won't have a hard time finding it. I give it my wholehearted recommendation as well worth the $3.99. And I would even have paid more for it without regret. My book, Iris Spiro Before COVID, is available on Amazon. $4.99 on Kindle, $14.99 for paperback. Perry L's books, The Only Bush I Trust Is My Own, and On My Knees are available, similarly, on Amazon, and you can

check those out as well. Podcast at ComedySeller.com for all your comments and suggestions. Al, great seeing you. Hopefully we'll see you back in New York. Hit me up when you're in town, if you come back. Okay, will do. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Bye-bye, everybody. See you next time. Good night.