The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Michael Stahl & Jim David

Episode Date: December 22, 2016

Michael Stahl is a freelance writer, editor and journalist based in Queens, New York, whose work has been published in several print and digital publications. He is a features editor at Narratively and the author of the recent Rolling Stone article, "How Trump's Win is Changing Stand-Up Comedy."  Jim David is a stand-up comic and a longtime performer at the Comedy Cellar.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. We're here with, of course, the fantastic Mr. Dan Natterman, just fresh off his triumphant Off-Broadway performance as Ebenezer Scrooge, the beautiful Miss Kristen Gonzalez, and we have a couple guests today. We have Mr. Jim David is going to be here, as well as an author from Rolling

Stone magazine, but usually we start the show we just check in on Dan and his week usually has something he wants to say. Well, you mentioned it. I just want to clarify what you meant by off-Broadway production of Scrooge. We did a reading of Christmas Carol around the corner at the Village Underground, and I played Ebenezer Scrooge. Some might say that's perfect casting, as I've been known to be somewhat grouchy.

But not just at Christmastime. By the way, Noah, I'm speaking of Christmastime. I assume we're not having a holiday party this year here at the Comedy Cellar. No, we're going to have a holiday party. But we don't have much time. We better act fast. Well, we usually have it the week of New Year's Eve. And you know how I feel about that.

And you're right. Actually, we're supposed to be... We usually have it after so that it doesn't conflict. We were supposed to have it last night, actually, but we just didn't get our shit together and we didn't have the holiday party. So it would have been a nice... Except nobody would have known about it.

The truth is we're so busy now, Dan. Business is just... We don't have time. Well, you have time. It's a question of whether you want a holiday party or another show, another revenue-generating show. And you've made your choice. What do you think?

That's a no-brainer. Well, that's certainly your choice to make. Although I think your employees and comedians would certainly appreciate a holiday party, but what the hell is that? You know what I've learned? An unfortunate lesson. What on earth is that?

It's the blender. I bought that for my wife for Christmas. I've learned, and it's a sad fact of life, that people don't appreciate. Like, people don't appreciate. No matter what you do. Like, they'll appreciate it for a few days, but the second something... You're saying people wouldn't appreciate a holiday party? They appreciate the holiday party

during the party, but two weeks later, if I do something that annoys somebody the slightest, they won't be like, let me give him a break. He did throw us a holiday party. They don't care. That's not the way it works, no. It doesn't work that way. So you'd be like, what did I do? It does not work that way. I've had musicians, people

that I've laid out thousands of dollars, carried them financially through tragedies, whatever. Two weeks later, we just not jump to work. You know, like I got a gig for an extra hundred bucks. May I say that I greatly appreciate the cauliflower currently on your menu that accompanies these chicken skewers. It's delicious. You're upsetting me, but yes, the cauliflower is delicious.

Why am I upsetting you? Because the new menu, we're having a lot of trouble getting this new menu off the ground properly. Well, I'm giving you a compliment on it. Right. But the thing that is always good is the cauliflower. Oh, it's great. I don't like cauliflower. So by saying you like the cauliflower, you're just reminding me that everything else is not where I want it.

Everything else is fine. The couscous could use a little seasoning. You know, I was the other day dining in a fabulous restaurant. You're not the first person to say that, Jim. What is the... Why are some restaurants so good and some restaurants just don't cut it? Is it the quality of the food or the quality of the chef or a combination?

The quality of the chef. What is the most important factor? Wrong, wrong, wrong. It is the quality of the owner. Oh, God. It is. It absolutely is. Like, why do some places have good service and some places have bad service? Everybody hires from the same dumb pool of people who want to wait tables. The good manager, the good management creates, has good service.

Some places always have bad service. Doesn't matter who they hire. No, but she's talking about the food, whether the food is good or not. That's also the owner. The owner's got to get a good chef, and he's got to buy good quality food. I mean, you can buy shitty food. And he's got to keep the chef's nose to the grindstone or foot to the fire or whatever, whatever the matter was, because...

That's why you've got to go to chef-owned restaurants. Well, that's your best bet. I worked, back when I was a waiter, I worked at a chef-owned restaurant on the Upper East Side, and it was one of those places where Barbara Walters and Woody Allen would go for lunch. Like Elaine's? No, it was called Arcadia. And it was run by this genius chef who was the most hideous human being on the face of the planet. Takes a tough man to make a tender chicken.

She was a horrible human being, and I hope that she has met great physical harm over the years. Chefs have a reputation for being a little bit out there mentally. She was the worst. She was horrible. But in the kitchen, she was a genius. She would have dishes on the menu like corn cakes with crème fraîche and caviar. I mean, it was incredible. Well, I don't like that kind of stuff.

I want simple, straightforward food that I can eat every week. Bring back the Mideast combo platter, please. Yeah, we're bringing it back. But here's the thing. So we have a hummus plate. So hummus has been served for probably 1,000 years in the same way. A round platter. All of a sudden, I come in and the hummus plate is served in a bowl with a little garnish.

I'm like, what? Nobody wants hummus this way. But to a chef, and there's practical reasons why it's not good also, because you put oil and stuff on top of the hummus so if it's a deep thing, the first few bites have the oil and then you have it.

Right. But in any event, this is the problem with chefs is that to just serve hummus the way it's been served for a thousand years, like what do you need me for? I'm a chef.

I'm an artiste. I have to do a new take on hummus and from time to time, like as you use the word genius, from time to time, just like with genres of music, somebody will come up with something which is amazing. But most of the time, it's like, you know, this is horrible. All right.

But I'm not saying that about our show. Our food is really coming good. We're just having trouble having everybody in the kitchen learn it, having them make it consistent, having them all used to the fact that we're really on top of the customers to make sure that they like it. If they don't like it, we're taking it back and that kind of thing. Anyway, so there's an article

in Rolling Stone magazine this week. How Trump's win is changing stand-up comedy. It was written by Michael Stahl who was a freelance writer, editor and journalist based in Queens, New York. That's where Donald Trump comes from, who has been published

in several print and digital publications. He is a features editor at Narratively. Hello, Mr. Stahl. Greg, come sit down. You wrote this article in Rolling Stone, and the first question we have for you, and I

have a lot to say about this article, but I want to let you get it out first. Sure. Where did the thought come into your head that Trump's win had somehow changed stand-up comedy? I was listening to Mark Maron's podcast a few weeks ago, and he had mentioned something about the Wanda Sykes incident up in Boston. Tell the people what that was. That was the Dennis Leary fundraiser. What is it, like Heroes Come Home or something like that? Comics Come Home.

Comics Come Home, yeah. And she had gone on stage, and if I got the story straight, she had gone on stage and, like, I think the first thing she said was, well, they put an orangutan in the White House. And immediately just, like, everyone just kind of started booing her. And essentially she, like, walked off stage and, you know, it's just got some coverage. You know, I just kind of started doing some research

and I found out about the Amy Schumer incident a few months ago. And I just thought to myself. That's where Amy had also lambasted Trump and people walked out of her show. Yeah, and if you look at the video, she asked a Trump supporter onto the stage and just kind of asked him, like, why are you voting for Trump?

And he kind of started giving him his reasons and she started sort of grilling him and questioning him, like, on the stage in front of everybody. And some people, I guess, were uncomfortable with that and they left. Okay, so let me just stop you there because this is what I find kind of internally contradictory in the message of your article. Yeah. Because the sub-headline, and maybe you didn't write it, it says, emboldened by election

results, Trump supporters are starting to make working comics nervous. Right. But what you're describing is comics making Trump supporters nervous. You're describing comics lashing out at Trump supporters who are buying their own business as opposed to, and using that as a premise for an article was saying the Trump supporters are somehow rising up. And I'll give it away. In my experience, the Trump supporters are like, keep your head down. Don't let anybody know you voted for Trump.

We don't want any trouble here. Oh, no, they've been very vocal since the election. Very vocal. Not here. Well, we're in New York, vocal since the election. Very vocal. Not here. Well, we're in New York, so we're in a... No, I mean in New York and elsewhere. Not at the Comedy Cell. We do 3,000 people a week or something.

I haven't seen it once. But go ahead. Well, there's some examples in the piece about Trump supporters, you know, giving it to the comics as well. So it's kind of a mix. And, no, I didn't write the subheading. But anyway, I heard about those couple of incidents and I just thought these are people that paid to see Awanda Sykes and Amy Schumer.

These are big-name people and I'm friendly with comics. In the scene, club comics. And I just thought, you know, what's going on in the clubs with these comedians that nobody knows that you just kind of show up to a club, you're there for a dinner and a show and you know, and these gentlemen come out, well, and ladies

of course, that aren't known. So, what challenges are they facing? Well, listen, I know Jim wants to say what happened to him and I want him to say something, but this is my perception of it. For eight years, when Barack Obama was president, you could not go up there as a comedian and say anything negative about him. Wrong. Wrong. I did.

Well. Wrong. If you went up and called, obviously you couldn't call him an orangutan, but if you called him, hey, how do you like all those babies dying in Syria? How's that? How's that, Obama? I did a joke about that. What was your joke? I said Barack Obama just outlined his plan for Syria.

Then he colored it. And that got a big laugh. When did you do that? Oh, God, two years ago, two years ago, three years ago. And did it until, and I have still been doing it when it comes on to me. Sure, I did that. Well, I don't want to contradict you because... I did a joke about Obama takes so long to do things that when he pardoned the Thanksgiving turkey,

by the time he finished, it was a sandwich. No, that's, by the way, that's okay. That's a little different. This is what I think. Dan makes jokes about Trump. Everybody makes jokes about politics. And I'm an audience member. And I can laugh at a joke about even a politician that I agree with.

From time to time, I hear a joke more now than ever where the first instinct is I need to defend myself. You're not talking about Trump. You're talking about me. You should need to defend myself. Like, you're not talking about Trump. You're talking about me. You should have to defend yourself. And at that point, I'm like, this is not entertaining anymore. When you, when the, let's say I'm an Obama supporter. When you're the butt of the joke. And when the point of the joke is, aren't Obama supporters idiots?

Or how could anybody support this guy? Then I feel like I'm watching Bill Maher. Bush is an asshole. Yeah. This is not, and the people who don't feel that way, like, fuck this guy, then I feel like I'm watching Bill Maher. Bush is an asshole. Yeah! And the people who don't feel that way, like, fuck this guy, you know? Well, when I was conceiving the story, I'm friendly with Ted Alexandro.

And I remember a while ago, I was speaking to him during the time of Occupy when that was kind of hot. Occupy Wall Street. And Ted was doing some material on it. And he was very vocal about his support for Occupy. And I asked him, I was like, how is this affecting your material? And he told me, this was again years ago.

He told me, I always try and base my jokes in some kind of truth. And I wanted to kind of touch base with him on that. And see if he was still bringing that to the table today with Trump. And that was the thing. I feel like when you look at the Amy Schumer video, when you look at Wanda Sykes and even Dana Carvey's new special, he comes out and goes, I want to talk about Donald Trump and people just started voting. In all those instances, they didn't quite use that strategy.

Not to say that everyone needs to adhere to what Ted Alexandro says, but a lot of it was people just coming out on stage and just giving their opinion as opposed to really crafting a joke that had some thought behind it. The audience doesn't want to hear your opinion unless it's a good joke. Right. They do not. Well, they may want to hear Amy's opinion, because Amy has kind of become also like a spokeswoman for modern feminism.

No, but I don't think they want to hear her opinion unless it's a good joke. I don't want to bash Amy Schumer, because I actually really like her, but if you watch the video, she's actually kind of condescending to the gentleman on stage. Okay, but the premise of the article was that the audience is, that comedy is changing. That was before the election. Okay. Now, I think we can all agree that whatever era we're in,

there are certain topics on stage that you just don't want to touch if you don't want to piss people off. And, for example, when Christopher Reeve got into his accident, you couldn't touch it. You couldn't touch Christopher Reeve. This is nonpolitical, but you couldn't touch it. You couldn't touch Christopher Reeve. This is non-political, but you couldn't touch... I bet you Jim had a joke about it. I did not. Maybe Gilbert.

I did not have a joke about Christopher Reeve. When the war in Iraq, if you had gone up and said you know, this is a bullshit war... I did. That's where I got in trouble. I had military guys wait for me after the show in Vegas. That sounds like your dream come true, Jim. No, they were hostile.

They said, this one guy said, see, because I did a joke right before we went into Iraq. And I said, you know, George Bush wants a war so bad. He said, Daddy had a war. I want a war. And it was something along those lines. And some guy waited for me after the show and said, are you saying that I'm going into Iraq for no reason? And I was like, I'm just making a joke, dude. You know what I mean?

And there you go. Let Dan finish his point. But the point is, as we see, there's always been certain areas, if you're a comic, unless you are so famous that everybody in the audience is there to see you and knows your point of view already.

Like Bill Maher or like Louis Black. But if you're a guy like me and you take the audience as you find them, you have to be very careful if you want to have a good show where everybody has fun. And that's always been the case before Trump, during Trump. So, I mean, your articles seem to imply that things were fundamentally different now that Trump has been elected. And, you know, I see it as more as, well, there's always

been certain topics that you better not touch if you don't want to piss off half the audience. But this is, to me, I'm sorry, but this isn't, to me, something that's a topic that can't... This is Kristen Gonzalez, but by the way, her husband is Hispanic. She's not actually Hispanic, so she might actually have voted for Trump. Go ahead. I did not vote for

Trump. He's a white Hispanic, I think. He's a actually Hispanic, so she might actually have voted for Trump. Go ahead. I did not vote for Trump. He's a white Hispanic, I think. He's a white Hispanic. But, and I may lose my point. Oh, I don't think that Trump is something that you can touch. I actually think people are like enough already. I mean, we've all spoken about how it's been the biggest media coverage and how jokes are made about him constantly. So you do go to a show and not maybe want to hear that again and again.

You're inundated with it. We have been inundated with it. Let him answer first, then I want to say the rest. Yeah, two things to that. One is that I made the point in the piece that people did make the observation that maybe for 18 months,

they were the butt ends of jokes while Trump is running the campaign, and now they're just kind of like, well, we won so you know it's almost like hack at this point you know right so now it's just kind of like we won so here's the middle finger for you in the form of heckling

but the other thing too is I have to say that I'm not getting the heckling I'm getting that if you bring it up you might piss off some Trump supporters but that's again that would have been the case for many many different topics it was the case For many, many different topics It was the case with me with Bush, definitely Yeah, you know

That joke that you told At the time that you told It would have annoyed me Which one? Daddy wants a war, so I got a war My first thought would be What a shallow I get it

That's because you get mad at everything. No, no, because the thing is like. Yes, you do. No, I'm going to tell you why. Because the thing is, what we're just saying is like, if I support the war because of the U.N. weapons inspection problems and because of the human rights abuses of Saddam Hussein and because of the wanting to democratize the Middle East to avoid 9-11 and all, whatever the reason, and the belief that they were WMDs, which turned out to be putting myself in the head of a guy at that time. If I support a war for those reasons, this jackass is telling me

no, you're a jackass for supporting a war because this is just because it's a spoiled brat who wants a war. That is absolutely nonsense. That is your own mental meltdown talking. No, that's right. And all I was doing was making a joke about Bush and his intentions. But that's what I'm saying.

Certain jokes to a thinking person, they take it a step further and they realize, like, if I were to speak to Jim about the war, he would think I'm a jackass for supporting the war. And therefore, I'm like, that's not this guy. Right. I probably would. Now, if you're Louis Black or Bill Maher, and people know that going into it, you paid your money, you knew what you were getting. But when you're paying $20 at the comedy club,

listen, I'm not ruling it out. I'm saying understand that when you tell a joke like that, don't expect people to just roll right down their throats easily because you are criticizing them. You're telling them that what they believe is to be belittled and they may not laugh along at that.

Now, you may say I'm an artiste and I don't want to serve the homeless the way I normally serve them. This is the way I want to tell my jokes. Well, yeah, there's like a competing vision of what comedy is. Some people think comedy is supposed to be challenging people, pushing boundaries, pushing buttons. Some people think it's, well, we're just there to entertain the public as we find them. How about both?

Can it be both? Well. I hope it's both. That's the way I try to write. I hope it's both. Well, the way I try to write. I hope it's both. Well, that's the way you see it. I mean, I'm a fan of dick jokes, and I'm a fan of my wife, what a cook. I didn't know toast had bones, and I'm a fan of socially.

That's funny. Yeah, that's. Whose joke is that? I don't know. Rodney? Yes. Well, that's fine. I'm just saying.

Phyllis Diller said, my mother-in-law is so fat, she can only play Sikh. But, you know, very few. Golden age. You know, most comics here don't really get too, too, that I've noticed anyway, the comedy seller, too, too political. Even Ted Alexandro, whose views are extreme in real life, on stage doesn't really go there. Well, let me tell you. Hold that thought. First of all, Ted is a master.

Because Ted, whose views are extreme, never makes me feel what I'm describing. Because he doesn't go there. Well, I think maybe he does, but because of his approach, it doesn't come off as so far left, so far offensive. There's no smugness to him. Right. What jokes does he have that really gets into his political beliefs? I don't remember. He himself said on this very show.

I cited one in the story. He himself said on this very show that he really doesn't get too into it on stage. But a comic said to me recently, if I make a Trump voter or extreme right-winger in the audience feel defensive, good. That's part of the goal. Well, I spoke to William Stevenson. Was that me? Yes, that was you. Well, again, that's how

Jim sees comedy. But you have to say, I'm a club owner. Yeah. And I'm extremely opinionated about politics. I'm not going to make them feel that comfortable for that long. Just maybe after one or two jokes, I don't go on tirade. Right, but you say that's part of it. I just want to make clear that may be part of your goal,

but that's the point where your goal diverges with the goal of the person who owns the club. Because I'm not interested in anybody feeling defensive. I'm interested in people having a good time, period. And I think that, you know, it starts at the top. And, you know, I spoke to William Stevenson, who's one of your prime hosts. Is that what he told you? No, I'm kidding. Well, no. No, but he said that, you know, at some point he called out, you know,

where are you from? And just by asking that question, where are you from, the person got tense. And he felt bad. You know, he said that. You know, that now what he does is he kind of turns that into a joke where he says, you know, now's the part of the show where I ask, where are you from? But I don't want to know. You could be from the wrong state.

But again, that's no different than after Zimmerman. There was a couple of incidents in Florida with Zimmerman and a couple of other crazy things happened in Florida around that same time. And if somebody said they were from Florida, you would feel weird. There would be tension. So I think that, again, I don't think it's anything fundamentally different. I don't think we're in uncharted territory here. I think right now there's a lot of sensitivity with regard to the division in America and Trump versus Hillary.

But I don't think fundamentally we're in different territory. I don't think the nature of comedy has changed. I think there's now another subject that we have to tread with care. Well, it's different for me because I've never been, I mean, I've had problems with audiences for 20 years if they don't like a joke that I do, but I've never nobody's ever threatened to fire me and nobody's ever tried to get me fired and nobody's ever stormed the stage before trying

to hurt me. And both of those things happened within the last two months. Tell the story, what happened? But those things have happened to other comics over the years. Well, let's hear what happened to Jim. Well, I mean, I made the most, I made I was on a ship and I made the most lame Trump joke, because I was asking where people were from, and a lot of people were from South America and Puerto Rico.

And then I said, wow, there's so many Latinos on this ship, Donald Trump is trying to deport it. That joke is the level of a Tonight Show joke. Yes. Some woman went up and tried to get me fired. And really, tried to get me fired from wanted me

on a ship. Because on the ships, they're notorious for trying to get people fired for any little thing. For anything, yeah. But also, in a club, somebody, this was in Vegas, somebody, I was making a joke about how when Donald Trump talks, he looks like a talking rectum.

Like if an asshole could actually speak, that's what, you know, like, we're going to build a wall. It looks like a talking rectum. And then there's a bunch of stuff about that. I'll defer to you on that, Jim. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That, thank you. I know what I'm talking about.

I defer your expertise on that. Exactly. But somebody, this young guy and his girlfriend, they were in their 20s, and they ran to the stage, and these two guys got up out of the audience and pulled them away from me. Let me ask you this. First of all, the first joke I think is funny, the second joke I don't know. They both work, and they've worked for years. Try going on stage and saying Obama looks like a talking rectum and see if you don't get exactly... He doesn't look like a talking rectum. I'm just saying the equivalent, whatever. You don't find

he does. I believe some people might. I could make up something about Obama. I'm just saying that if you were to speak with that kind of disrespect, I mean, it's the most disrespect, right? Say somebody looks like a talking rectum. If you said my wife looks like a talking rectum, I'd be like, you know,

I have to get the security guy to fight you. I'm saying this is... The disrespect is earned, by the way. You have to, well, in your opinion, but you have... Yes, and I'm the one that's behind the fucking mic. But in order to say that we're living in a new era, you have

to imagine the counterfactual. What if somebody had said the same thing about Barack Obama, and I'm telling you Greg wants to say something, go ahead Greg it's different because Barack Obama, whether you like him or not is dignified

you're bringing your opinion into it it's not an opinion Trump has shown it has a real lack of dignity. I mean, his Twitter feed reflects that. Obama is an adult, and he acts like an adult, so it wouldn't make sense if you said he's a talking asshole. But if you say Trump's a talking asshole.

It sounds to me like you're trying to normalize him. An insulting Trump, there's a certain accuracy to it. Okay, but we're trying to answer the question, are we living in a different era? No, I don't think we're living in a different era. In fact, I think as time goes by, when Trump becomes president, and he's actually in office for a little while, it's going to become more acceptable to make fun, to shit on him again.

Listen to me. This is where you guys, I think, are losing the argument. You want me to accept as a given you want me to stipulate that people who think Trump is an asshole are correct and people who think Obama is an asshole are incorrect and I'm telling you well let's say

exactly and I'm telling you that there are people out there for instance maybe one of the 700 people who got to keep their job at Carrier, who might love Donald Trump. And if you were to make a joke like that, they'd take it very personally. And there are people out there who love Obama. But you know what? They're letting a lot slide if they love Donald Trump.

And let's say somebody who was promised that if they liked their health care, they could keep it, and then now can't keep their health care. It's different than... We're not talking about policies here. We're talking about a character issue. I'm not saying you're going to say the exact same joke. I'm saying that to level the same amount

of obvious disrespect to the president or any human being is going to upset the people who don't dislike that guy. We're not here to argue. Bill Clinton took a lot of abuse from comedians. We're not here to argue the merits of Trump and the merits of Obama. We're here to argue whether we're in a fundamentally different era comedically. But that's what they suck at.

I said if you were to say, hold on, hold on. I'm agreeing with you. Right, but just to understand how we got there, But that's what they suck. I said if you were to say. Hold on. Hold on. I'm agreeing with you. Right. But just to understand how we got there. I'm like, well, if you said the same thing, similar type things about Obama four years ago. You would also get a hostile reaction. And they're just like, no, you couldn't because you would never say that about Obama because Obama doesn't. Because Obama doesn't. Anybody who told a joke like that about Obama would be wrong.

No, no, no, no. But anybody tells a joke like that about Trump, he's justified. No, because Trump is an easier target. If Obama had more that you can make fun of, people would do it. No, it's not. It's not the argument. People aren't not making fun of Obama because they're afraid of not being politically correct. He's just less of a target.

He just shows a certain amount of dignity. And he hasn't done anything that they can really make fun of. And if there was something there, people would be on top of it. Hold on, hold on, one more time. Let Dan talk. Once again, this is not the argument or the discussion we're having. We're not here to argue whether Obama's dignified and Trump is deserving of criticism.

We're here to argue whether there's a fundamental change in stand-up comedy, whether audiences are more hostile, more prone to violence. No, no, no. Okay? And I agree with Noam in saying that no.

During every era, there's things that if you said them, you might be physically assaulted, you'd definitely be verbally assaulted, and definitely people would walk out. So the Rolling Stone article that the gentleman, Mike Stahl, was it?

Mike Stahl, yeah. Mike Stahl wrote. And I'm hardly a gentleman. Was the premise of the article, as I read it, was that something fundamentally different is happening right now. And that's how I read the article. Is that your intention or is that your premise in the article? And if so, why? Because I think that in all eras, as I said,

comics have to be careful of certain topics. Yeah. I think that, first of all, you have to remember that my sort of status in this whole thing is that of reporter. You know? So, you know, looking at... Tell them what happened to John Laster.

I can get to that, sure, too. But I went out there and I just wrote to, you know, some people that I was friendly with and said, hey, what's going on in the clubs? Has anything changed? And every single person wrote back and said, yeah, it's a lot more tense. It's way different than anything else that I've experienced before. So I am not, you know, my story isn't, you know,

I'm not trying to bring any kind of bias to it. I'm just making the point that every single comedian across the... I want to underline, Mike, we all like you. You're a nice guy. No, I'm just making the point that... We're just trying to provoke discussion. First of all, I myself have not noticed... No, I want to see him cry.

And to answer your question, and to answer your question, and just keeping that in mind, I think my personal opinion and just kind of, you know, having to talk, you know, having the opportunity to talk to these folks. I think there's just kind of like an underlying tone. It's it's hard to explain. Like, I understand what you're saying. Like, if you made a joke about Obama, if you made a joke about Bush.

But I think that with Trump, I think with Trump, with Trump supporters, I think maybe some of these folks that I spoke to, there's just this kind of underlying real venom to their heckling, to their words, to their approach. I think that that's more the issue. I have not noticed. Can we ask you a question on the air? Come on. Real quick. I have personally not noticed any difference.

People used to, you know, I once mentioned Bill Clinton years ago when somebody said, fuck that draft dodger. And that's pretty potent stuff. I've not noticed any difference in heckling or in the attitude of the audience in general. And I talk about Trump not in a very light way, but I haven't noticed any difference. My biggest criticism of you is your research. And I'm going to get to that in a second. But Jim Norton, can you, this is Michael,

he wrote the article in Rolling Stone magazine about the stand-up comedy, Trump's effect on stand-up comedy. Oh, I didn't read it. My story for Rolling Stone is just about how, in general, kind of comedians and clubs sort of feel like, in this sort of age of Trump, especially since he's gotten elected, there's kind of a tenseness within the crowd, more heckling in general from Trump supporters and just kind of just

this general sense of discomfort when politics is brought up and Trump is brought up that, you know, really kind of creates a tension within the crowd. I've noticed he's very polarizing, but I noticed that if you say you like Trump, people go like, oh. Like, you get a reaction from that, too. So I think either side you take, whatever there's more of in the crowd are going to give you shit about it. I haven't noticed it more from his. Like, if I say, like, yeah, I don't dislike Donald Trump, I don't get big cheers from people.

They usually get like, oh. And if I say something shitty about it, then people kind of groan. I think it's across the board. Well, this is what we're discussing here today. Do you notice a change now or is this the way comedy's always been? Yeah, people are always, I think this is the most polarizing. I don't notice any big change. Like, no, I don't think there's a giant

change. You think it's always been that the case? Yeah, we've always been polarizing. When you said this is the most polarizing, I think that kind of supports one thing that I just said about that just kind of extra added oomph, this underlying tone, I think, to, you know, Trump backers, or even, you know, and a lot of the comedians, they said the same thing, that it really kind of just goes,

even just if you bring up politics in general, there's just this, like, ugh, like they're just tired of kind of hearing about it. Yeah, I mean, I found Hillary backers to be very unhappy, though, as I would be, too, if I lost it. I would be happy if I, you know what I mean? It's like both of them are the same to me.

There's no difference. Trump supporters are not these monsters heckling comedians while Hillary supporters are being great. The whole country is filled with a bunch

of self-centered babies, so whatever side you're taking, the other side gets mad. And that's just my family. That's the point I'm making, that if you were to come after Barack Obama six years ago, people would not like that.

Yeah, if you bashed Michelle Obama on stage, they'd hate you for it. I mean, they really would. And if you attack Hillary and go, Trump is great, if you're somewhere maybe in Arkansas, they'd love you, but downstairs, no. Half the crowd would hate you guts, if not more. Oh, way more, yeah. Thank you, Jim. What were the questions you had

about... I criticized your research because, first of all, and listen... Well, we don't need to... The poor boy's been really... No, please, I'm here. The poor boy was nice enough to come down, only for Noam to trash him. You know, we don't need to. The poor boy's been really good. No, please, I'm here. The poor boy was nice enough to come down only for Noam to trash him. You know, we don't. You know what? Let's pivot on what you just said.

We don't ambush here. I see. No, he's not ambushing. He's giving me a fair warning. I see. I mean, I don't have to. I see television shows all the time where journalists write opinion pieces

and they're called on their... This is not an opinion piece. What is this? This is a factual piece? It's not an opinion piece. What is this? This is a factual piece? It's not an opinion piece. It's a reported piece. No, it's an opinion piece. And I also want to remind you that you're free to critique Noam on the quality of the hummus.

So, in other words, nobody does their job perfectly, and Noam is no exception. It's fascinating what you just said. Well, it's not an editorial. Well, let's hold that thought, Because I want to talk about that. Because that's actually the most interesting thing of all. And that's actually what I didn't want to.

That's where I was holding my fire. Sure. But all the time, people write opinion pieces. And they're called on television shows. Whether it's on Rachel Maddow or Hannity or whatever it is. And the host, you know, grills them on it. So I don't. Speaking of grill,

Jim loved the kebabs. I love the kebabs. Dudes, if I bring a guy who wrote... All right, but an anus joke, you had to get in there. If a guy... If a guy writes... Maybe I wasn't a great, but... You're stuck in jokes, too. Okay, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

You're getting so upset. Let him finish. Maybe I wasn't a great, but you're stuck in jokes too. Okay, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Noam, you're getting so upset. Let him finish. If a guy writes an article that I take issue with, if I'm respectful, why can't I confront him? Why can't I call the guy in and say, well, I thought it was a great article. Let's talk about how great it was. I agree with every word of it. We do that also. We do that sometimes.

I'd love to hear that. No, no, no. We've disagreed with him. I just think maybe he's down. We don't want to kick him. I'm not sometimes. I'd love to hear that. No, no, no. We've disagreed with him. I just think maybe he's down. We don't want to kick him. I'm not down. He's not down at all. I'm having a great time.

The reason I criticized research is because, A, this is not egotistical. You didn't call me. No, I mean, I own one of the most important. Maybe you called some other comedy club owners. I didn't see them. I did, as a matter of fact. Did they give you a quote? Well,

you know, one thing, actually, he said, Jim, yeah, sorry, Jim said as well,

he's like, I wish you'd talk to me. You know, I only had space for 1,500 words. There's only so much reporting you can do. I mean, you know. No,

but what I'm saying, because you chose, for instance, like Ida Rodriguez, and she works here, and I like her, but she, You don't like her. I do like her works here, and I like her. You don't like her. I do like her.

Oh, you do like her. Gotcha. But she, this is not the first time I've heard her accuse an audience that didn't accept her of being motivated by race. And so what she's saying here about supposedly what's new about Trump, she basically made this point a year ago before Trump wasn't even the nominee, and she's an anchor thing there. If I told you I reached out to Nick DiPaolo and he turned me down, would that help? No, actually, I knew that. I knew that, actually.

Oh, you knew that. Yeah, yeah. So then, like James Madden says, and I see fewer minorities in the crowd. Well, that's ridiculous. I mean, it's truly ridiculous. There is no suppression of minority people in our crowds. I mean, it's absurd. And then Helen Hong says, I don't even know her, but she says, hey, guys.

She's an Asian woman. Hey, guys, does anyone know what, but she says, hey, guys. She's an Asian woman. No kidding. Hey, guys, does anyone know what to pack for an internment camp? And the audience responded negatively. Of course they're going to respond negatively. Also, by the way, that was her opening joke. Yeah. So I'm saying I'm criticizing the research.

William, obviously, I told you the other way. And then John Lasseter, the last story. Yeah. John Lasseter has a, you want to, is John Lasseter still on stage? Steve, can we get John Lass, the last story. Yeah. John Laster has a... Is John Laster still on stage? Steve, can we get John Laster? Hey, John. You know who this is? What's up, brother?

Okay, who has to leave? No, Chris will move over. I'm good. John, can you tell the story firsthand? What happened to you in the Rolling Stone piece? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, tell it real fast. Yeah, give us the Cliff Note version.

Yes, we'll do the Cliff Note version. Better than characterizing it or even using the characterization in the story. Let's hear it directly from you. Yeah, yeah, no, you know what? I got off stage. My buddy was hosting. Where was this? We were at Gotham.

I tried to leave that out, but it's all gravy. That's okay. So it was after the show. You were at Gotham? Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm kidding. And, no, so this guy walks up. It's after the show. You were Gotham? Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. And, no, so this guy walks up.

It's after the show, probably 10 minutes after the show. And we're just talking. We knew something was funny because immediately after the show, he said, oh, my God, man, you were hysterical. And you were black. Right. So, you know, we kind of gave him the, look, me, Vitor. Norman was down there.

And then, you know, we kind of break off and start talking. And he literally says, he says, yeah, man, you know, Trump is president now. You know, I think that we all need to start reevaluating, you know, what's politically correct. He said, you know, I don't know if it's a bad idea, you know, if I'm not able to call you nigger now. And he just said that. And I just blacked out. And I was just about to hit him by the grace of god and and harris was standing there i put her name in the story too and and almost

bumped into her but i so that kind of made me come to like god i can't hit this guy um but i was so annoyed and i told actually told veter and veter was disgusted and then i just made my way out of there because i could still feel the boil. You know what I mean? Now, was he fucking with you, or was he being overly familiar? I think he was being overly familiar, but I also think that he really meant, like, hey, let's talk about this. You know, like, he'd been yearning to do it. Like, hey, like, maybe we should rethink this conversation. Any white guy who thinks that he can look at a stranger and say nigger is out of his fucking mind.

First of all, I want to just, I don't know if I want to applaud him, but at least I want to make mention that Jim said the N-word in full. Who, me? Yes, and that's certainly something that is not often done nowadays. Normally we say the N-word. Did you say I want to applaud him? I said I want to applaud him. I said I maybe applaud him.

I don't know what I want to do, but I want to mention the fact that... In the course of an intelligent discussion about the appropriateness of the word... John, since you're here and you brought it up, would you rather hear me when using the term say nigger or say the N-word? And he said it again, by the way.

Say the N-word. And the it again by the way say say say the n-word and the reason i say that it's just like with a guy in the basement like it wasn't a conscious thought like i had already measured him to break his jaw to be honest with you i'm not i know it's a laughing matter to you but to me it's not because that meant i gotta spend sure sure i gotta spend thanksgiving in jail so when i hear it come out of white people's mouths it there's a visceral reaction that you don't know. And you might not know it's coming. That's why I asked you the question.

So if your glasses end up over there, you're like, hey, what the fuck just happened? I don't know either. Right. You know what I mean? I just think it's inappropriate at all times. Can I retweet the N-word? Oh, come on, guys.

Isn't that what I'm talking about? We're making light of the... Yeah, serious situation. So what I'm... I'm making light making light of the... Yeah, serious situation. So, so, so what I'm... I'm making light. No, I'm with all the anus jokes. I'm told one anus... How can I have...

And whatever. In reference to that, though, to answer your question, I've always thought that my problem with it is there's always been intrapersonal communication amongst groups. You know what I mean? Like, take, for example, my coach could call me an asshole or throw a basketball at my face. But that's within the confines of the team.

I feel like with the N-word, it's the same thing. Or with women. Or with gay guys that grab women's tits. You know what I mean? There's always been communication in groups that exists within groups that we don't cross those lines. They are allowed to get away with it. Hold on. Hold on a minute.

I have seen many times to my extremely uncomfortableness white guys being overly familiar with black guys, especially when they've been drinking and use the N-word or even if they don't use the N-word, just make an inappropriate joke about being black

that you just want to smack them. Right. I've seen that many, many times. I saw it when I was in Russia last week. Someone we all made a joke. I was like, oh, my God, what the fuck is the matter with you? And he offended everybody. Right.

But usually when I see it, it's because they want to be close to you. They want to bond. They want to bond with you, as opposed to what he was describing in his article, like these nasty Trump voters who want to fuck with you. And that's why I thought his story, and that's why it's good to hear from a horse's mouth, was not actually evidence of what you were describing. But I think it points to a comfort level. It points to a comfort level that the guy had. But I've seen these things before is what I'm saying.

I've seen these things before. Okay, well, but I think that because Trump made it in, in that situation. I mean, John, you were there, so tell me if I'm wrong. But I think in that situation, because Trump was in, that man was, I think because Trump got in, that man was measuring a new sort of comfort level. He was taking advantage of a new comfort level. He would have never said that if Hillary had won. John says he would have never said that.

He would have never said that if Hillary had won. He was trying to see if he could stretch his boundaries a little bit. You took him for a Trump voter? Definitely. Definitely, okay. Well, I think we've discussed this, that there's no doubt that certain people feel emboldened by Trump. Thank you, John.

And I've had the argument before, how common is that phenomenon? But no doubt certain people have been emboldened by Trump. Whether or not that means there's a fundamental difference in comedy club atmospheres is a separate question. I don't think people have been emboldened by Trump. Maybe this particular guy was, but I don't see, I mean, to, to, to, for me to believe

that it's a trend in comedy, as I said, doing thousands of people, I'm talking once, doing thousands of people a week. If I have not seen it, if no one has commented, I'm at the comedian table

every night. Not one night has any comedian commented, hey, do you see what's going, like not once. So, like,

and I'm supposed to say, well, no, but it's true. It's very true. It's just happening everywhere except in the most important comedy club and the busiest comedy club where all the best comedians where the funny comedians are. It's happening to the comedians who never really were going over so well to begin with.

Who were telling jokes which are really kind of harsh. And, you know, and then that's why I, and I'll let you get back to your point, but that's why when you say it's a reporting piece as opposed to an editorial piece I say no it seems like an editorial piece to me

in the sense that you had a point you wanted to make and then you chose evidence of it whereas a reporting piece would have

somebody on the other side a New York Times piece say however the owner of the comedy cellar disagrees that's a reporting piece tries to present people on both sides of an issue.

An editorial piece leads you down the garden path so you agree by the end with the point of view of the author. And that's what your piece did. It's an editorial. Here's my retort. Even if you use a device. If I'd written to all the comedians that I'd reached out to, and none of them said that this was an issue, the story wouldn't exist.

So that's why I say that this is a reported piece. I reached out to a certain number of people within a certain amount of time and wrote a certain amount of words that I was allotted to make this point. That's all. So I'm just reporting. You're reaching out to some ultra left-wing comedians. How do you know they're ultra left-wing? Ted Alexandro, Ida Rodriguez, I know them.

And like I said, I reached out to Nick DiPaolo, and he turned me down. Right. And twice I reached out to him. But the fact that he turned you down is not evidence that your opinion is correct in this. It just means you didn't get any data from him. I mean, I have eight comedians all

telling me that they're experiencing the same phenomenon. No, you don't, because we've gone through this. William Stevenson, many of them are saying the opposite. William is saying that people are afraid to say that they support Trump. William wasn't describing Trump supporters being adamant. Ted Alexandra was saying Ted Alexandra didn't even tell any story of anything that happened.

Helen Hong starts with this, hey guys, we're in a tournament camp, and she says, I know I shouldn't have done that, I spent the rest of my time, because of course it's... With that, I wanted to make the point, and the same thing with the Ted Alexandro quote, I wanted to make the point that there's,

that comedians, who I respect so much and admire so much, there's a craft to the art, and that these's, that comedians, who I respect so much and admire so much, there's a craft to the art. And that these folks, that when they're going up and doing their thing, there's so much thought that goes into it. And, you know, look, they're human, and they, you know, quote-unquote, make mistakes as well. You know, and Helen Hong, you know, kind of said, like, you know, that was sort of my fault. But at the same time, you know, to have that, again, to use a word that I used before, you know, that venom kind of come out,

I think, you know, in her mind, she thought that that was something new. That was something different for Roz as well out in Los Angeles. Now let me put it in a gentler way. I think that you missed the forest for the trees. I think you were misled by some people who were rationalizing certain events. However, I can tell you

with great authority, as I just said, that being here, which is kind of the epicenter, I have not heard one person mention what it is that you're talking about. As a matter of fact, I remember when John, this is not the first time I heard that John last,

I was there when he told the story a couple weeks ago. But when he told it to me a couple weeks ago, he didn't associate it with the election of Donald Trump. I'm not even sure it was after the election. Well, the guy said, you know, because Trump is in, we have to rethink things. But I'm just saying, he didn't, I don't know, it wasn't presented to me that way. Well, you know, there's only so many people, you know, you only have so much time to do a story.

There's only so many people you can talk to. And I wanted to focus on the experience, you know, asking about, you know, why did an interview a club owner? I wanted to ask the experience of the people that are in the clubs on stage that are feet from, you know, the people in the crowd as opposed to, hey, Wanda Sykes and Amy Schumer are experiencing this

and they're in big theaters with people that are on marquees. Yeah, but they were going after the audience. The audience wasn't going after them. They were going after the audience. Right. Which is not what you're,

that's what I'm saying. And then with Laster, did you... Well, that's one of the points I tried to make. Did you ask Laster if the guy was trying to be friendly with him

or if the guy was fucking with him? Because if the guy was trying to be friendly with him, it's not an evidence of the audience members fucking with the comedians. I reported what John Laster told me. All right. And that's what he told me. Jim is raising his hand. Dan, then Jim.

Dan, then Jim. Go ahead. Sorry. Well, even if we assume that the John Laster incident was motivated by hatred or motivated by racism that was enabled by Trump, it's still one incident, and I'm not seeing any, I have not experienced

any real fundamental difference in the audience in what goes on. Have you heard a buzz about it from other comedians? No. No. James? Well, I experienced the same thing during Sarah Palin. Whenever I would make jokes about her, somebody would yell at me. And what I've been trying to do... Because that's when your venom comes out.

No, it's not. Palin, Bush, Trump. No, no, no. Jim, be honest now. No, no, no. Listen to me. These are the people you hate. It comes through.

Listen to me. Listen to me. No, no. You are jumping all over me like you are the most thin skinned... You have to calm the fuck down. Just let me get my goddamn story out, okay? You don't know what the jokes were.

It was just, it was a mistake on my part when I said that at a Palin rally where they wear t-shirts that say I'm with stupid pointed at themselves. Now that was a mistake. You are correct about that. However, what I've been trying to do, and this is based on another conversation that you and I However, what I've been trying to do, and this is based on another conversation

that you and I had, and I've been trying to do it since the election, because when I work on a ship or in Vegas, I would say a good third to half of my audience, I can assume, voted for Trump. Okay? I want those people to... Now, this may surprise you, my dear, but I want those people to

think I'm funny, too. I love that. They buy my CDs and they buy my books just like everybody else. And so what's been interesting is that I have been writing jokes about the whole Trump phenomenon and the whole atmosphere in the country that has a point of view, and it's obvious that I do not approve of Trump, but still is a good enough joke that they will laugh. That's the challenge. And that has been a really interesting challenge. Yeah, that's right.

Like, here's one. Wait, wait, I let you go for a long time, and I'm going to psychoanalyze you. I'm going to tell you, I bet you, you do want 100% of the people in the audience to love you. I want them all to laugh at me. And to laugh at you and want to see you again. Yeah.

And you also have this burning resentment towards Donald Trump. That's very true. And you want to let that out. Yes. But in a way, that is a good joke. Right, right. Because if it's not a good joke, I have nothing to say.

Hold on, I get it. And when it gets the better of you sometimes, and it comes out a little harsher than you would like it to, like I'm a stupid, I bet when you go home you say, fuck, I shouldn't have done that. That's correct. I got it under control. You are correct.

I know these musicians go through this. Yeah, sure. You know, they want to do it on their own terms. So we all fail. And the challenge of great art is to do it on your own terms while still winning over the audience. Right. And the challenge of a club owner is to make sure that the audience has won over because I'm in business to please the audience. Like, for example, what I'll do as a writer is I will start from the point of view of

what I want to say. Like, I wanted to make a joke about all the bigots in America. And there's no art to saying, boy, this country's full of bigots. There's no art to that. And what I say now is, because the audience loves it whenever you praise the troops or whenever you praise America. You know what I mean? They just love it.

It's hacky, but they love it. So I say, and this the audience loves it whenever you praise the troops or whenever you praise America. You know what I mean? They just love it. It's hacky, but they love it. So I say, and this gets a big laugh, and I say, there's a lot of wonderful people in this country, aren't there? They're just wonderful people. And they all, yeah, yeah, and they applaud. And then I say, there's also a ton of racist, rednecks, religious fanatics, reactionaries, gun nuts, conspiracy theories, and drooling mongoloids. And that's just my family. Ah, that works. Yes, it works totally.

But it still gets the point out. Right. You see what I mean? Yes, yes, I do. And then, like I did two days after the election, I said, like so many of you, for the last two days, I have been physically ill. I threw up.

I cried. I can't stop shaking. And then I found out I'm pregnant. And so it got a big... But obviously, I don't need to tell you what you do there. When you were saying mongrel, people were like, that's just my family. They're like, oh, that's funny.

Exactly. Yeah, that's what you got to do. I think that some of what Jim's saying is, it again points to a point that I tried to make in the piece, was that there's thought behind these jokes. These aren't things like with the internment camp joke from Helen Hong, you know, where she even kind of admits, you know, she just sort of threw it out.

And John Laster in the piece, you know, I quoted him. He said, hey, you know, I'm not even doing political humor right now because, you know, I really need to, like, you know, think on it and wrap my head around really how I feel and then, you know,

hit people with it. So my point is, I think, also, too, you know, I wrote this piece, you know, just within the month after, you know, Trump was elected. So, you know, you're really getting the fiery, you know, barbs coming out of people, you know, maybe in two, three, four months. You know, things are going to be different where there's more thought put into the jokes like the one you made about, you know, sort of about the country, but also about your family. And, you know, more people, even if they are Trump supporters and they're hearing, quote unquote, anti-Trump jokes, you know, maybe they'll still feel comfortable in the club because these comedians have kind of maybe gotten over their anger and now they're being

more tactful in their jokes. Well, during the whole election. So this also is within the first month. It's also good if you go after your own side. Like, during the whole election, I did a series of what I call Friars Roast jokes about every candidate. So Bernie Sanders is such an

old Jew, his campaign headquarters is in a pyramid. You didn't say Jew, did you? Yes, I did. I said, it's old Jew. Yes, and then I said, Hillary Clinton is like herpes, we can't get rid of her. You know, Hillary Clinton's like the last girl at the bar. You're not really attracted to her, but you're really horny, so you take her home and fuck her anyway. And Ted Cruz hates gay people so much his church doesn't even have an organist.

Shit like that. You know what I mean? So those all worked. And then when I get to Trump, I say, I look at Donald Trump and I think, I owe Sarah Palin an apology. And that gets a huge laugh. Huge laugh. That's funny. an apology. And that gets a huge laugh. Huge laugh. That's funny. Thank you. And I do that. But you know,

I think a lot of the time, if the audience doesn't know, I mean, like when I talk about being a gay married person, they're pretty much going to have an idea of where I come from. But if the audience really doesn't know who I voted for, I've done a really good job, I think. Yes. I agree. I don't know if that's a liberal.'ve done a really good job, I think. Yes. I agree.

This is why I wanted to come on because I don't think you realize that about me. I do realize. I think I even said, when I was in Russia, Jim and I had a heated Facebook message. That's because I had to delete you because it was so hostile. It wasn't hostile. It was totally fucking hostile.

I just disagreed with you. Listen, some people like Jim think they can put stuff out on Facebook and like that if you're not part of the choir that he's preaching to, you're supposed to just stay quiet. No, no. It's you. You're the only one I delete because you're so hostile. I'm the only friend you have who doesn't think exactly the same way as you.

Oh, that is absolutely not true. How many right-wing conservative friends do you have? List them. Are you a right-wing conservative? Me, Nick DiPaolo. Are you a right-wing conservative? Well, Nick DiPaolo is not. I'm socialist. Nick DiPaolo is not a friend. I think it might be instructive, Michael. If you have any future articles about comedy that you're thinking about, maybe you run them

by Noam at this time. Well, yeah, you know, please, let's exchange our information. At the end of the day, I wasn't quoted. I hope we didn't upset you. Do you have any comedy articles that you're working on or other ideas that you're thinking about doing? Yes. Is this sort of your beat? Yeah, well, I wouldn't say that, but I love comedy and I do have one or two other ideas.

Well, we certainly appreciate your support. I once again would caution you to run it by Noam first. You don't have to run anything by me. Well, but Noam does, is very logical, hyperlogical, infuriatingly so at times. He does run the most important comedy club in New York, and some might say the world. I also could have gotten DePaulo to give you a quote. And he could be a very valuable resource. And had you come to him with this article prior to writing it,

obviously you'd have gotten quite an interesting point of view and you might have gotten some other points of view as well. Like I said, I did reach out to a couple other club owners, not the vaunted owner of Comedy Cellar. Don't say that because that's not the way I meant it. The reality is the Comedy Cellar is a very important club. You're not going to get any distribution. It's a fabulous club.

It's the best club. It's huge. It's the best club. It's only the best people perform here. It's only the best. The people. The best people. My point is worth repeating is that I just felt that I wanted to focus on the experience of club comics,

which to me I think is very different from an Amy Schumer, from a Louis C.K., from a Jim Gaffigan. That I agree with. The Amy Schumers and the Louis C.K.s, as their audience comes to see them, kind of does want to have their opinions. Especially Louis, he's a straddling philosopher and comedian now. Greg has one more thing to say.

I think also certain comedians don't really do political stuff. And then when they do do it, the audience might get a little bit set back by it. Because, you know, just do your act. We don't want to hear your opinions kind of thing. But, you know, if it was a – like, Amy's not a political comedian. I mean, neither is Louis. Louis talks about himself.

He doesn't really talk about politics. So when they start to talk about Trump, they're kind of leaving their set to kind of give their opinion. You know what I'm saying? I know exactly what you're saying. Although Louis wrote that really nice piece about Trump which I thought was very well written and did not offend a lot of people. He wrote a nice piece about Trump?

I mean a nicely written piece about Trump. Oh, thank God. You mean the one where he called him Hitler? The one where he called him Hitler. Oh. The one where he called him Hitler. Oh, that was a nice piece. He didn't call him Hitler. Only you. He did use the H word, though.

We can all rest easy that Gilbert Godfrey won't be addressing this issue in any... How would he sound if he did? Well, I should have come up with something before the show. That idea just came to me. But he would say, yes, yes, Donald Trump. Yes. show, that idea just came to me. But he would say, yes, yes, Donald Trump, yes, Donald Trump is going to get rid of the Spix and

the Jewish grandfather on the edge there. I think we're finished. And we'll have no more problems. Hey, Noam, where can your comedians be followed? Yes, go ahead, Jim. I am at ComicJimDavid on Twitter.

Follow me or harass me. Send me death threats like I've gotten in the past. I don't give my Twitter because there's no point to it. Nobody's following me. It's just, you know. At Dan Natterman. It happens to be at Dan Natterman. I do want to say, instead of a plug, I would like to take this time to say that this is what I'm talking about with the Comedy Cellar radio show.

This was a good show. This is what I'm talking about. This is inside shit. You're not going to get it anywhere else. Really getting into the nitty gritty of what goes on here at the Comedy Cellar. And there's always something interesting going on here at the Comedy Cellar. I did fail, though. How so?

I didn't get Jim David to walk off the show as he threatened to. But anyway. You're a pussy. It was not a legitimate threat. Kristen. I still have my maiden, though. Kristen Montella. I think Twitter's really out.

It's all Instagram now. And it's all young girls in bikinis on Instagram. And I know that Montella doesn't do that. Do you want to give your Instagram? I don't have Instagram. I can't stand to see my face on camera. I hate it. The first time I saw myself on television, I thought, people may be eating.

Or snapshots. I would also like to ask Jim, given what John Lasseter said, if you've re-evaluated your decision to use the entire N-word rather than just saying the N-word. Oh, yeah, I guess so. No. He didn't do anything wrong. No. I had a great joke. Whether he did anything wrong is not the point.

The point is John Lasseter had a visceral negative reaction to Jim using that word. Well, but you know what? I had a great joke where I used the N-word and Marina Franklin loved it and all the black people in the audience, they got it. But the white people got so mad, I had to cut the joke. That's often the case, actually, that one removed, because they don't have the confidence

in themselves to allow it, so in general principle, they just shut it down. It's very, very tricky. Most comedians, certainly on stage, won't use it. I might use it off stage in a certain context. I think that. Certainly not when on the radio show. Ironically, and Stephen knows this, and I'm doing a podcast with Hatem, I spoke to maybe 10, 15 Muslim people about Trump. To a man, they were much more nuanced in their reaction to Trump's comments about Islam

than the average white guy living in his parents' basement, who just says, Trump's a racist, whatever it is. Most of the Arabs I talked to are like, well, you know, there is a problem. We have it in our country, too. But because they have the confidence to be able to say that, because they're Muslim, so no one can accuse them of anything, they can take a breath and say, well, there is actually a problem. Go ahead. I would say using the N-word on stage, the actual N-word on stage for a white comic to do so is a bad idea.

No, I don't think you should use it on stage. But I think you can quote somebody directly. You want to say less things? Yeah, well, just you mentioned that you've spoken to folks from the Muslim community, and their response to Trump has been very measured. What did you think of Faraz's quotes from the Rolling Stone piece? What was his quote? I don't remember. Well, he just kind of said that, I mean, I remember the last one he said he could just kind of sit there and say, Trump's going to ruin comedy, or we're going to take this opportunity to wake people up.

He said, too, that there was a Trump supporter that had yelled out at him that immigration was outside waiting for him. Homeland Security. Homeland Security, yeah, right, sorry. Homeland Security was waiting for him. I mean, how many people have made the hack joke about Homeland Security is here to deport the Mexicans in the kitchen? I mean, we heard this joke for 20 years.

It's nothing new. I don't know. Like I said, and I don't want to be any more disrespectful than Dan already thinks. I have been to you in your article. Not disrespectful. I know. Not disrespectful. But the poor guy came up.

I just think the whole thing is a red herring. The poor guy, he comes in here, he probably thought, if I had to guess, he thought, ooh, they loved that article, boy. And he's all excited. They called me in, and it's going to be nothing but praise. And, you know...

They should have known better than that. And it didn't quite turn out that way. Well, Jim, no, no. Jim strongly agreed with your article. I'm just one opinion. Opinions are like, yes, they are. They certainly are.

Why do you always look at me? Because Dan's been criticizing me for making the anus jokes. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we have to end. Mike, thank you very much for coming and

facing the music. Dan Natterman, you have a Twitter or whatever it is? Yeah, it's Michael R. Stahl, S-T-A-H-L is my last name. Good night, everybody.

Thank you.