The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Mike Vecchione

Episode Date: May 19, 2023

Mike Vecchione is a stand up comedian based in NYC. He has appeared on the Tonight Show multiple times and has been on Netflix, Comedy Central and Hulu. He has also appeared in the movie The King of Staten Island. His comedy special, The Attractives, directed and produced by Nate Bargatze, is available now on YouTube.

Nikki, tell me when. You're good. This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of the world-famous comedy seller coming at you on SiriusXM 99 Raw Dog and wherever podcasts are available. This is Dan Natterman. As you might know, if you're a regular listener,

I'm with Noam Dorman. Hello, Dan. He's the owner, the proprietor of the world-famous comedy seller, the ever-expanding Comedy Cellar, soon to be coming to a former McDonald's near you. And we have Perrielle Ashenbrand with us as well. She's the show's producer. She is an on-air personality.

Hola. Things evolved. It wasn't originally the plan, but that's how it is now, and that's it. Anyhow, by the way, we have mike vecchione coming he's going to talk about a special among other things but speaking of specials uh i was offered a special of sorts there's this company they're working with comedy dynamics to be honest with you i'm not sure who they are my manager called me up and said yeah they want to pay you x it's not a bad little

paycheck um to do 30 to 55 minutes, and they'll own the video, and they'll try to find a home for it. And they're doing it with like 10 or 11 comics, mostly geriatrics like myself and some others in my age bracket and even older, which will be taping at the end of June. So God bless them. I don't know how they're going to recoup their money, but that's not my concern. What's the name of the company?

I really don't know, but they're working with Comedy Dynamics. I think Comedy Dynamics is going to try to stream it. I really don't know the details. My manager just told me the kind of broad stroke. That's Volksweiss, right? Yeah, we've had him on. I like him. I think he did Mike Kaplan's. So if Volksweiss, right? Yeah, we've had him on. I like him. And I think he did Mike Kaplan's.

So if they're involved, I mean. He did Czarna's new show. Okay, okay. So, but yeah, there's about 10 or 11 of us and most of us are old. Renan Hirschberg, I think, is the youngest one that's doing it. He's not old.

No, I said he's the youngest one, but the rest of us are like 50 and up. No, but the youngest one could be 49. He's in his 20s, right? No, he's in his 30s. No. Maybe early 40s at most. Early 40s?

I don't think so. I think he's in his mid-30s. I think mid-30s. I'm so excited for you. I just can't hide it. So, yeah, that's it. I'm felling. Well, we'll see.

I mean, you know. I'm so excited for you. Better'm felling. Well, we'll see. I mean, you know. I'm so excited. Better than a sharp stick in the eye. The question is, what do I call it? So I thought maybe dansplaining. No. C'est la vie. Natasplaining is better.

Well, dansplaining rhymes with mansplaining. I know, but natasplaining. C'est la vie. C'est la vie. C'est la vie is not bad. Just because I'm a French person. C'est la vie is terrible. I'm not a French person, but now to explain. C'est la vie. C'est la vie. C'est la vie is not. Just because I'm a French person. C'est la vie is terrible. I'm not a French person, but I have interest.

C'est la vie is not. Listen. All right. What about, what about, what about chat AI generated special or human intelligence generated special? No, no. You are so good at titles usually. So take a minute. I'm not sure the title really matters.

Mulaney called his baby Jay. I mean, what the hell is that? What does that even have to do with anything? What do you mean? He has a great joke. The punchline is baby Jay. So I'll just find one of my jokes and just use that like you know

Mr. Morales Mr. Morales I don't know I mean Baby J's catchy so I can just take one of my jokes and like use that but you want it to be catchy you want it to be a little

is Baby J that catchy? is anybody saying first of all does anybody ever say oh I gotta see this special it's called Baby J let me tell you the part of that special

which grabs the audience in that title. Baby Jay? Right. I mean, right. Nobody cares. You can just call it John Mulaney's newest special and that would make no difference in the viewership. But if you're like Dan Aderman, sex sells.

That might get you viewers. Ah, I see where you're going. You want a catchy title. Sex sells. Yeah, I see where you're going. You want a catchy title. Sex sells. Yeah, I see where you're going. So just Bait and Switch. Sex with my cousin Sheila. Something like that.

All right, all right. I'll put some thought out. Sex sells is good now. Good, good, good thought. Good thought. But he doesn't have anything about sex in his accent. Well, it's a Bait and Switch. Yeah, he does.

It's a Bait and Switch. He has the whole bit about Mr. Morales. The master of the Bait and Switch. Yeah, he does. It's a bait and switch. He has the whole bit about Mr. Morales. The master of the bait and switch. Yeah. Master bait and switcher. Oh, that's very good. I hadn't thought of that. Master bait and switch.

Oh, these are all reasonable ideas. Master bait and switcher is funny. Yeah, all right, all right. Were you fucking with me when you said that? Yes, you were. That's really exciting. Yeah, that's, I guess. So can I tell you a few things?

Yeah. Oh, we got, we got no. There's a fucking story in the New Yorker about these fucking thought criminal dinners that we do at the cellar. We do that are done at the cellar. I just, for the people who don't know what that is, just a brief explanation. So there's a story in a cellar in the New Yorker. It's called The Party is Canceled. There's a woman named Pam Peresky, who's very nice,

who holds these gatherings of her friends. Apparently, their friends are a little more colorful than I realized they were. I read the article, but these friends who were, and I went to one of them, not here. It was very interesting people. They're famous writers were there who write for the New York Times and stuff. I don't want to say their names. And so I, you know, after a pleasant experience with that,

I said, well, you can do it at the Olive Tree whenever you want. So they've been doing the Olive Tree. I don't think I've gone to any of them at the Olive Tree. Maybe I sat for a few minutes at one of them and meet various people. Like I said, a couple of them are prominent. The other people, I don't know.

So the New Yorker is doing a story about it. And so I said, sure, I'll talk to them. So I said, yeah, I like to have debate at the club. So, of course, the story, you know. So the fact checker is calling from a New Yorker. And the first one says, Dwarman, who is fed up with progressive orthodoxy, I said, listen, I did not have anything to do with my political, as you guys know better than anybody,

none of my political points of view or my being fed up with progressive orthodoxy that had me have this at the meeting. I've done events with Mother Jones magazine. I like the idea of debate. And then it says something else. Tyler Fisher did this takeoff of

this mockery of Dylan Mulvaney and Dwarven immediately wanted him down to the club. This kind of thing. That's not exactly the way it was said because I don't remember. I said, listen, I need to speak to an editor here. And we just want to make sure. And it says that Creedence Clearwater Revival

is playing. Yes, that's right. What about Creedence? They wanted to fact check that Creedence was actually the music playing in the fucking olive tree, you know? So, I said, listen, I really need to speak to an editor or the writer here. Yes, we'll get you in touch with

the writer. And I said, listen, I have nothing to do with these people. Not necessarily because I disagree with their politics or anything. It's just not the nature of my involvement here. The nature of my involvement is, as I said— Provide a venue. What? Just provide the venue.

I like to have interesting conversations going on in the Olive Tree. I couldn't care less whether it's right-wing or left-wing. And I wasn't drawn to them because of any kind of being fed up with progressiveness as far as Tyler Fisher goes yes he did this mockery

parody although it's interesting when SNL does a vicious parody of someone else they don't call it a what do they call it what the hell did they describe? I have it here. What was the crude mockery of Dylan Mulvaney? Which I guess is a fair way

to put it, but it's obviously also dripping with a political point of view about it. I said, Pamela said this comedian, Tyler Fisher, wanted to audition. And I actually didn't even want to audition him, but I wanted to be polite.

So I let him audition for Esty. He was great. He's not doing any crude mockeries of Dylan Mulvaney in the club. Not that I would care if he did so long as it didn't turn the audience off. You know, it depends how you do it. Crude mockeries don't necessarily go over, but clever mockeries will go over. Anyway, so, you know, I'm probably overreacting, but the whole article is, you know,

the article came out that the fact checker indicated they would call me, but they never called me. And they did change it a little bit, but no matter, so it turns out a lot of these people that she has at the thing have been canceled for, you know, certain behaviors that, you know, I don't know. I don't know anything about that stuff. Again, not that I would care. I don't, I don't make the audience, the customers in the olive tree provide a background check. If somebody wants to have a, you know, convene a political conversation with ex-cons or whatever, I don't care. But that's not my involvement in this. And of course, it sounds like it is.

But the thing that kills me, and I'll never get out from under this. It's not the thing that kills me. One of the things that kills me. So I read from the article. Most often the groups meets at the Olive Tree Cafe above the Comedy Cell in Greenwich Village. The Olive Tree is a bit of a scene for dissidents. I don't know. Is that...

Are we a scene for dissidents? What's a dissident? I wouldn't characterize it as such. Well, what does that mean to you? A scene for dissidents? That means that a lot of dissidents, people that are not welcome in a polite company come here. Is that what a dissident... Is that the definition of dissidents, people that are not welcome in a polite company, come here. Is that what a dissident?

That's how I assume they mean it. Is that the definition of a dissident? Well, I think that's how they mean it. You know, people that have points of view that aren't, you know, shall we say, favored in Martha's Vineyard. So I'm going to look up the word dissident. Can you look up the word dissident while I'm... I assume that's what they mean by that. But this is The New Yorker.

It's a literary magazine. Let's see what they... So anyway, I don't know that we're seen for dissidents at all. The people that I hang out with at the cellar, I don't think are dissidents at all. These are people who write for The New Yorker and write for... I don't think that that's an accurate characterization. Not at all.

A person who opposes official policy, especially that of an authoritarian state, a dissident who has been jailed by a military regime. They don't mean that. They're using it figuratively. Hi, Mike Vecchio. I think, I mean, anybody that disagrees with the position that you're supposed to agree with. So the people that I hang out with down there, the people know, you know, are people like Tyler Cowen or, uh, I don't want to say their names,

you know, like these are not dissidents at all. So I think an accurate characterization would be, it's kind of, sorry, give me a second. Mike has been a, been a scene for intellectuals of all stripes of all stripes,

not a scene for dissidents of all fucking stripes. That would be more accurate. David Korn hangs out down here. Is he a fucking dissident? Fred Kaplan. Fred Kaplan? Yeah, like dissidents? Coleman Hughes is arguably a dissident in the way they mean the word.

No. No, he's not. No, no, let's say he is. If he is among the people who hang out here, it doesn't become a scene for dissidents. By the way, is it all stripes or all stipes? Stripes. Okay.

For some reason, I thought the expression was all stipes. So anyway, so then it says, I'll continue. Altria is a bit of a scene for dissidents in the city, even beyond Peresky's group. Noam Dorman, the owner of both the comedy cellar and the restaurant, picks up the tab for the gatherings. He likes that his venues can be used for lively debate. That was what I corrected the fact checker on.

At least that got in. But that wasn't the original story at all. The cellar is known as... Okay, so that's fine, right? Oh, no, no. The cellar is known as a place where controversial entertainers can perform. Really? Really? We as a place where controversial entertainers can perform. Really? Really?

We know a place? Well, it's known as a place where you say you have a policy, swim at your own risk. In 2017, Louis C.K. apologized for abusing his power as a high-profile comic in order to masturbate in front of female comedians and was subsequently dropped by Netflix, HBO, FX, and his management agency.

But less than a year later, he was on stage at the Cellar again. He is now... Can I say something? Is this really relevant to the story? I don't understand why... Like, every single time you talk to these publications... Yeah, why are you talking to the press? Because I didn't want to say no to Pam.

That's Pamela. You get enraged. The same thing happens every single time. You say they always misquote you. I don't, and every time you're like, I'm never talking to Pamela. I'll tell you why I got it. Because I thought that since Pamela was having this woman writing a story, that the woman was coming to champion her in some way.

And you know me, I don't like to say no to people. Don't talk to the Lugan press. All right. Around, so, okay. Dinah's hanging lights, listening to Queen and Creed's Clearwater Revival. That much they checked. And I'll get to the part where,

about Tyler and then I'll stop. I mean, it's fucking annoying. Not that it matters. It's just, you know, I mean, it's fucking annoying. Not that it matters. It's just, you know, I would think that the essence of good journalism is to capture the essence of truth. And what enrages me about these people, and I guess they don't do it on purpose, and I guess they do it in good faith. Maybe. No, they don't. Why would you guess that, by the way?

What are you talking about? Well, not in 100% cases. I'm giving this woman, this writer, the benefit of the doubt. I don't know where she's coming from. She's trying to create a juicy story. I don't have evidence that this is done in bad faith, so I'm not going to say it. But whether it's done in bad faith or it's done to get a juicy story,

either way, I can say with authority, she got it wrong. Whatever it is that she's trying to portray as the, some people close their eyes and imagine what it is that's being described about me, the olive tree, the scene, it's wrong. That's the fucking long and short of it.

It's flat out wrong. And anybody who's involved in this place, you didn't quite, nah, swing and a miss. Yeah, he does like some of those people, but you don't understand what the olive tree is. They love having liberal writers. It's not about the dissidents. It's about the debate, but they won not about the dissidents. It's about the debate,

but they won't exclude the dissidents, which is not the same thing. Anyway, occasionally, Peresky recruits new thought criminals by DMing them on Twitter while they're facing backlash. That's how she met Tyler Fisher, an actor and comedian

who has found modest social media fame by posting parody videos, including a crude series. Now, let me just say, crude is not 100% the wrong word. On the other hand, Dylan Mulvaney's video was about her penis bulge. So in some sense, the crudeness is a constant in that story. You're mocking someone, a public figure, a quite famous public figure now, In some sense, the crudeness is a constant in that story. You're mocking someone, a public figure, a quite famous public figure now,

who's doing something about penis bulges. So you mock that part of the story. Now you become a crude series mocking Dylan Mulvaney, the social media star who makes TikToks. I've only seen a little bit of one, so maybe that's a fair description of what Tyler's doing about her gender transition. Peresky put Fisher in touch with Dwarman, who let Fisher audition for a set at the Comedy Cellar as a courtesy.

That's true. Fisher performed well and now does about 15 shows a week in the venue in between sets. That's where he gets really upset. I was there. He swung by the thought criminal table upstairs. Fisher claims he had a hard time getting a talent manager because he's a white man and instead has sought out alternative media ecosystems.

Now, is that true? We had Tyler Fisher on the show. He claimed that his manager told him that he couldn't get parts because he's a white man. What was it? Yeah, I think that was it. I think a manager or a manager, an agent said, yeah, we can't rep you because it's very hard for white people, white men. I think that. I think that they dropped him. Maybe they dropped him.

Maybe they didn't pick him up. Sue them or something. OK, but so however, that's right. Again, the essence of the story was that Tyler had, I think on tape, he told us, right? Yeah. On tape, somebody telling him that because he was- Get the mic back on in just a second. Because he was white in this, whatever, you're never going to get this opportunity because you're white.

This is what, allegedly, this is what Tyler says. Now that again, that doesn't really, this paragraph doesn't really capture the essence. This makes it sound like he's bellyaching. He has a hard time getting a talent manager because he's a white man. You know, that's not the essence of what he's saying, as opposed to saying he's a man suing somebody

because he was told or alleges that he was told we can't use you because you're white now that's that's quite a different story he recently acted movie uh terror on the prairie a western about a pioneer family okay there's coverages by conservative media outlet daily wire that's ben shapiro's outfit one of the stars of gina carano the actress informed mixed martial artist who lost her role in disney's here's a man only because of her social media posts, including one implying that being Jewish in Nazi Germany was similar to being conservative in America today. Now that's not, can you bring up that, that Gina Carano tweet that got her in trouble?

Please. She said something again, sort of, I don't know, again, sort of like that, but it wasn't quite that. Fisher told me that the criticism he received for his comedy has escalated his desire to tell edgy jokes, resulting in this cornered rat feeling where I end up saying things I would have never said. His fans at the cellar aren't scandalized by his provocative lines. Now, that implies that he's saying these cornered rat feelings where he ends up saying things he would never have said at the cellar, right? But I've never heard him say anything like that at the cellar. So let me be clear about the reading of it. In quotes, Tyler says, this cornered rat feeling where I end up saying things I would never have said. End quote.

Then the writer writes, his fans at the cellar aren't scandalized by his provocative lines, implying that one. Now, maybe he meant things that he said at the cellar. Have you ever heard him say anything scandalous at the cellar? I've only heard him do his joke about what's that joke that he does that? Never mind. I get complaints about various scandalous lines. I can say I don't want to say the name,

but like there's some people you won't be like, of course. I never had, I get raves about Tyler Fisher. He does the funniest thing about catching a predator because he's so small. He does the accents. He does a fantastic Donald Trump. He's not any kind of soapbox. He's not doing any kind of blue. Again, I don't care if he would.

I don't care if he does say scandalous things as long as the audience enjoys themselves when they pay the bill. Right. We're not we're not here. But it's just not it's not actually the case. You'd read that and you think like, wow, this guy must he's a cornered rat and he gets on stage in the cellar and he just goes, you know, he says these things that he wouldn't even otherwise say, except that he's, you know, kind of overreacting. This is not the essence of truth here. They're starving, Quote Fisher said. Like several of the thought criminals I spoke with, Fisher is someone whose career seems to have thrived upon the aura of cancellation.

Is he canceled? I don't know. Helping him define his brand among a certain audience. A certain audience. Canceling this guy doesn't seem to be working. He's blowing up. Okay. And then there's other things here about apparently some of the people that come to these things have been accused of improprieties or whatever it is. So, you know, whatever. I didn't know any of that. That's really probably not fair of me. It doesn't imply that I knew that, but,

and again, like I said said I don't really care it's not that I don't care it's not my place to judge people who come to eat in a public place they're not incarcerated you know what I mean like whatever but that's another matter I just wish that

if I'm important enough to a story that people want to write about me, I wish that it would convey the... I don't know. Did you find it, Nicole? I don't know any... You're talking about the Nazi one, right? Gina Carano's Nazi tweet.

I'm sorry, Mike. This is what she wrote. This is what Gina Carano wrote. Now, how did she... Let me describe. Let's read it. I haven't read it yet. The writer encapsulated it as such.

Because of a social media post, including one implying that being Jewish in Nazi Germany was similar to being conservative in America today. Maybe that's fair. Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers, but by their neighbors, even by children,

because history is edited. I'm sorry. Can you, Perry L., can you stop? I'm working here, okay? All right, I'll start again. Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers,

but by their neighbors, even by children, because history is edited. Most people today don't realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews.

How is that any different from hating someone for their political views? That's roughly accurate. I think it's roughly accurate, what they said. Let me read what she said again. She said... No, I don't think it is, Dan. Let me read what she said. No, I don't think it is, Dan. What did she say precisely?

Implying that being Jewish in Nazi Germany was similar to being conservative in America today. No, what she's implying is that the polarization that is going on today, the way we're coming at people we disagree with is dehumanizing these people, making it easier for us to hate them. First you hate them, and then you can do what you want with them. But it's really not, I mean, you can say that it's not an outright misrepresentation

in some way of what she said, but it doesn't, again, doesn't capture the essence of what she's saying. She's saying, don't realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. So what she was responding to there is a way that, you know, people, I guess this is old, I don't remember what the particular catalyzing event was for that. But the way people are being hateful and encouraged to hate people because essentially because they voted for Trump. That's what it was. And, you know, we had famous cases where journalists described people as rubes and toothless and these kinds of Trump supporters and this sort of thing.

And there is this kind of dehumanization, not so much of conservatives, although these people tend to be conservatives, but the deplorables. That's really, you know, everything that comes under the rubric of the deplorables, this is what people are railing against. And so she's saying the government first made their own neighbors, made their own neighbors hate them. When Biden said, maybe this is when Biden said about the Georgia voting law, it's Jim Crow on steroids. And when he said that the governor of, when Texas didn't want to have masks, was it? He says they're Neanderthals. Remember these kind of things. These were the kind of

remarks that she's responding to. It's not about being conservative, like, you know, I'm for lower taxation and, you know, less regulation. That's not what they're talking about. It's not about conservatives. It's about what I'm describing. And so, again, is that really where Gina Carano's coming from? She's talking about the fact that people are being encouraged, rather than to engage with ideas, just to hate people on the other side. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views? But she does spend most of the paragraph talking about Jews and Nazi Germany. I mean, I don't think it's an outrageous mischaracterization of what she's saying. I think it's reasonable, if not 100% precise.

Well, except that, I don't think being Jewish and Nazi Germany was similar to being a conservative in America today. Does anybody think that? Does anybody think that being Jewish and Nazi Germany was similar to being conservative? Would any crazy person actually say that? No, what she's saying is that she's making an analogy. I understand, but I see it as a reasonable

I don't think you know. Can we get to Mike? Yes, yes. Okay, Mike Vecchione. We're sorry, Mike, for the delay, but we had important stuff to get to. But here he is, Mike Vecchione. We're sorry, Mike, for the delay, but we had important stuff to get to. But here he is. Mike Vecchione. When did you guys move from the back table to upstairs? And I would like people at home to read this article

and please email us at podcastatcomedyseller.com and let me know if you think I'm being uncharitable. I want to make sure to be fair to the writer. She doesn't have an easy job. It's not an easy job to write about people. They're always going to complain because everybody wants a hagiography. Everybody wants to look like an angel in the story that somebody

writes, and that's not to be expected. And I'm not asking to look like an angel. I just don't feel that it captures the truth of the matter. Okay, go ahead. Yes, Mike Vecchione is with us. Speaking of people that are blowing up, we talked about Tyler Fisher. We have here

Mike Vecchione. Well, to piggyback off what you were saying, though, as a white warrior who's worked here for years and years. Now, I have a YouTube special out called The Attractives, and it's over a million, 1.2 million. So we're doing well.

Wow, congratulations. It was produced by Mike's dear friend, somebody that I probably have said ten words to over the course of my life, but a dear friend of Mike's, Nate Bargatze. Nate Bargatze was kind enough to direct it and produce it in association with 800-lb Gorilla. We taped it in Nashville at the Zanies.

Shout out to Zanies. And, yeah, it's out and it's doing well. Can we pull up a clip? Yeah. Can we go to a clip? Are we going to put the clip in later or are we going to do it right now? That's up to Mr. Vecchio. I'll do it now.

Well, we've got to find the right clip. Why don't we do it later? Cued up? Yeah, yeah, they're cued up. Oh, they're cute. They're cute it now. Well, we got to find the right clip. The jab in. Why don't we do it later? Cued up? Yeah, yeah, they're cued up. Oh, they're cued. They're cued. Okay. I didn't know they were cued.

What kind of an operation? One million views. One point. One point two. Here he goes. Bedbugs, everybody. He bedbugs. I had one point two point one after this.

Nate Bargatze joined. I've had to move a few times in New York, though. One time because of bedbugs. Have you guys had them? Bedbugs are aggressive. They just attack you and attack you until you break your lease.

There's no way to stop bedbugs. I think that's my message here tonight. I did figure out a way to slow them down, though. I introduced ladybugs

into my apartment. Now, the ladybugs don't kill the bedbugs, but they wear them down emotionally. I don't know. All right. Mike Vecchione compared being a man to being a Nazi. How does that fit in with the last story? Yes.

The other half doesn't like it so much. I put that joke on Twitter. I got attacked worse than I got attacked by bedbugs. Now, you know that the Nazis compared the Jews to bedbugs. Did they really? Yes, they did. Well, I think that's a compliment because bedbugs are resilient. They can live a long time without any food.

They have big noses. Michael, Neipagazzi. I think that's a compliment because bedbugs are resilient. They can live a long time without any food. They're jealous. Michael, Nate Pagazzi, I haven't been following him, but he sells out arenas. He's moved from theaters to arenas. He's just getting bigger and bigger. One of our biggest fails of the Commissary. Well, now how do you explain this? I mean, I'm not going to ask you this question because it'll put you on the spot, but is Nate Pagazzi funnier than Mike Vecchione?

Could anybody make that case? So what is it about— I think a lot of people in arenas could make that case. The people who go to see him in arenas would definitely— They can make that case, but I don't think it's a reasonable case. I don't—you know, we get into— Well, I will say, thank you for pitting me against the guy who gave me an opportunity. I'm saying he can't help himself.

Well, I think it's interesting. We have comics that sell at arenas and we have people that. But you know as well as I know that you never know who's going to. We are all coming up. We never know who's going to track with the public. But no reasonable case could be made that Mike Vecchione isn't a superlative comedian. As evidenced by his over 1 million views on his

specials. But he's not at least as present selling out arenas. Now, Perrin, when he says 1.2 million, do you know what number that means? 1,200,000. Very good. 1,200,000. The question is, what makes an arena comic? I think that's what I'm getting at.

Oh, it's relatability, for sure.. Oh, it's relatability for sure. I mean, it's relatability because we all know arena comics that we don't think are that good. Who are those, Dan? Dan wants the names. Dan wants the names. Let's ruin ourselves another way. We just ruined ourselves the first way with comparing the Jews and Nazi Germany. So Nate Bargassi was coming up.

I was not really that involved at that time, and we didn't use him. We used him very little, which was a huge mistake on our part, and I wish I had it to do over. I don't know how. You can't predict the future, Noam. No, no.

I think we should have known at the time. I think we made a mistake. Well, why should you have known? There's no knowing anything. Noam seems to think you can tell. I feel like if I had been there for the audition, I might have. Noam seems to think he can tell

who's going to pop and who's not. No, I don't mean that he's going to sell it to Reena. I just mean that I can't believe he wasn't good enough at the time for us to be using him. I think that we fucked up. And I don't mean fucked up because he was going to be a starman, just on the idea that he wasn't of

equal with the people we were using at the time. I find hard to believe. That may or may not be. He was very good even at the time. Yeah. I find hard to believe that may or may not be, but yeah. Yeah. He was very good. Even at the time, more open to it. Right.

But look, I don't know. You know, I, I think that, you know, it's Dan. You can't,

you already did those spots. It's not less with spots. No, but no, we've had this debate in the past where Noam thinks it's predictable. Oh, I saw Jon Stewart and I knew right away. I did. I knew right away.

No, you knew right away. I'm not saying that about Nate Bargatze. I'm saying that. I don't think you did know right away. I think what you knew is that he was handsome and that the industry was interested in him already. No, but is he saying that he knows the general, like we all who've been around this and in this for a long time, we know the skill set. Like we can look at somebody and go, oh, that guy's great.

Now we can't know if that's going to translate, especially in today's times. We don't know if that's going to be able to translate. It was clear back then that Jon Stewart was going to get mega opportunity.

This guy was cut from a different cloth than his peers right from day one. Same thing with Chappelle. But if it was so clear, then how come nobody offered Chappelle anything except Comedy Central for a relatively modest sum?

It wasn't... Chappelle got big... Chappelle got... Or Mel Brooks movies, by the way. Yeah, he did. Right away. But he's always complaining that Comedy Central didn't give him a good offer, right?

He complained... They got him $50 million. No, no, at the beginning. At the beginning. I... Chappelle, I think, is a bad example. If he was so sought after by everybody, he could have negotiated more. The fact is, people didn't know.

They knew he was good. It wasn't obvious as you think it is in retrospect. In some way, I know that this matters to you because it means that the reason that you haven't gone blazing is not because they knew you hadn't. Of course, that's an element to it. But I think it's insane that you think any of this is predictable. Mike, back me up, would you? Yeah, I think, like I said, I'll parse it. We all know the skill set, but I don't think any of us can predict

who is going to be a huge star or not. I don't think we can, especially now. Can you say that now? Can you say, like, you picked Jon Stewart out, but can you say that now can you say like you picked Jon Stewart out but can you say that now that you could see somebody and go that guy's gonna be huge no there are plenty of people who became very very big that I never including Louis that I never said oh this guy's gonna be a big star right um but there were a few people who the first time I saw them I was like oh yeah but but there's not like the first time I saw them, I was like, oh. Yeah, but there's... Like the first time I saw Michael Che,

and Dan knows this because he was around at the time. I'm like, that guy is something else. That guy is going to be something. Now, my question is, how many people... You remember that, right? How many other people did I point out to them? I don't really remember you saying that before. Let me give you another thing. I do these clips.

But you might have. I might give... But the question is, how many people did you say that about that went nowhere? Hold on. For years, you told me Godfrey's going to be huge. He's done well. Godfrey should have been huge.

All right. So I never told you he was going to be huge. I said Godfrey should have been huge. Yeah. So I haven't done it in a while, but for a while I was signing off on every clip that we were posting on Instagram. And I must have seen a hundred of them. There's only one that came across me that I commented to the guy. I said, this one I think might go places.

It was Jay Jordan doing this thing about having the birthday party for the dog or whatever. It immediately took off. It had millions of views. I don't know. You got one. You got one. There were some that also got millions of views. I didn't identify, which is not the same thing.

But from time to time, things have hit me, and that has been very, that has been accurate. Let me ask you this, because I have a theory about this. How much does confidence play into it? Versus a great, well-worded joke. I think if somebody hits you with a ton of confidence, or hits any of us with a ton of confidence, that makes a difference.

Okay, well, now you take my joke that Louis said. Now, it doesn't mean he's right, but he said it was his favorite joke. It doesn't mean it's the world's best joke, but my Mr. Morales joke really went nowhere when I posted it. It was good when Louis did it. Yeah, I know. And even when Louis posted it, I mean, it's not, I mean, it's hard to argue that there are jokes that are better.

So what am I missing? Am I too old? No, it's a fantastic joke. Me, me, me, me, me. I think, no, seriously, Dan's one of the best. He's unbelievable. He's a great, great comic. And I think the difference is it could be as simple as he posted it Tuesday at 4 o'clock instead of Thursday at 1 p.m.

It could be that simple. No, no, no. Yes, yes, yes. Mike's right. Mike is right. And if you talk to anybody who has had great success on any of these platforms, they will say the exact same thing that Mike just said. That's why they say keep posting.

Well, I think it's part of it. I think it's part of it. There is an algorithm. exact same thing that Mike just said. That's why they say keep posting everything. There is an algorithm. It's not just like in the ether and let's see what the funniest joke is. Why are you shaking your head? I don't believe that's right. Dan's joke was funny, but first of all, it was a little bit sophisticated. That's another thing.

It can't be too sophisticated. You're going to miss a lot of people if it was a little bit sophisticated. That's another thing. It can't be too sophisticated. You're going to miss a lot of people if it's sophisticated. Dance jokes are very sophisticated, well-written. So if it's not general enough, then you're going to lose a lot of people. It's a bit sophisticated and a bit clever. And it's not typical of the type of jokes that go, shouldn't even call it a type of jokes. It's not about the jokes. It's about the performances.

It's not typical of the performances that go viral. And it's really your performance that goes viral. The joke is a tool for the performance, but it's the performer, in my opinion, which goes viral. That could be. Yeah. Interesting. I could see that.

I mean, likability. You're talking about likability. You're talking about likability. Yeah, charisma. Confidence. It's the whole thing. Well, how much do you think youth plays into it? There's that guy.

Youth is part of it. Youth and attractiveness. There's a guy, what's his name, Matt Rife? Are you familiar? Yes. Okay, so I haven't seen his stuff. He may be quite good, but he's got millions.

And he's a very young, chiseled-looking guy. So how much, were he a 50, I mean, I guess he couldn't tell those jokes to the 50-year-old man, but say he looked like a young Dan Natterman. Okay, so, you know, would he have millions of followers? Probably not. And also what seems to go viral is if you can make a point, whether it's a good point, a shallow point. Like so Mike Yard had that thing about the, what was it? The candles, selling the candles.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a great one. It's a great joke. It was a great joke and kind of political and timely and the kind of thing people would send to each other because it pertains to the conversations they've been having and the things in the news and whatever. So it's like if you can be kind of your friend to make a point, you're controversial. Yeah. Maybe I'll put up my abortion joke. We'll see how that. Yeah. Controversy is a big thing.

Also, you have to be conscious. I was so wrapped up in joke writing and meticulousness. It's like, how is the audience feeling while they're watching you? That's a big thing that I never thought of before. It's like, how are they feeling? How are they receiving you? How does it make them feel to be in the audience because everybody's egoic and everybody's looking at things from their own perspective. They're walking in with their own ego. So they want to feel a certain way. So it's not about your meticulous jokes so much as it is how you're making them. So how, how, so can you give us an example of how you might? Well, I go on the road, I see Nate on the road and I, and now I've stopped watching him. He's brilliant, brilliant hour, but I'm now I'm watching the crowds react to him. I'm watching them react to him.

And they are just, it's like he has this southern draw and he's slow in telling a story. And they like that. They like those trimmings, you know what I mean? But then he's a great joke writer also. So they're already laughing at his presentation and his stage presence, but then he gets to the joke and they're they're already laughing at his presentation and his stage presence but then he gets to the joke and they're just like blown away by it because it's

the performance is great they're wrapped up and he's so likable they love him and then the joke hits him on top of it and they're like at this point they're doubled over so how he's doing it all clean how are you in integrating that if you are into your act? I'm learning from that. I'm like, oh, this is not about what I thought it was about. I'm like in my notebook drinking coffees, like trying to work. I'm still trying to get the jokes the way that I want them and how they hit all the way through. But it's like, how are you making them feel?

Like how are they responding to you? We're all getting laughs, and we're getting gut laughs, and we can all tell the difference between a jab in, a joke that's a jab in, a little bit of a laugh, feel? How are they responding to you? We're all getting laughs. We're getting gut laughs. We can all tell the difference between a jab in, a joke that's a jab in, a little bit of a laugh, and then hitting them hard. We all have that. But on the road when you're headlining, what's their overall experience

when they're sitting there watching? Has anything changed in your act? Yeah, I'm less joke-to-joke orientated. I'm more, I'm less joke to joke orientated. I'm more trying to write jokes about topics now and then hitting all the jokes within the topic. It's easier to do an hour that way anyway. You know, you're not piecing things together so much.

I suggested Dan do that like four or five years ago. Yeah. Well, except that my act, it's got to be integrated into my act. I can't do a joke about my cousin Sheila or my Mr. Morales and then just kind of, I mean, like I have a style. I know. I think that we are missing, and we talked about it before in Aruba,

a catchphrase. Catchphrase. I never learned. Well, he's referring to a catchphrase. Louis Schaefer years ago told me I needed a catchphrase. He says, Dan N, he's referring to a catchphrase. Louis Schaefer, years ago, told me I needed a catchphrase. He said, Dan Natterman funny, but Dan Natterman, nobody knows who Dan Natterman is. Louis Schaefer, I'm the not gay guy.

Louis Schaefer not gay. So I came up with a catchphrase. I figured, what about I never learn? And so I tried every joke I tried to write about, like I never learn. So I tried it. But I did it for like a week and then I gave up. It's a good idea. It's a great idea. But every joke we like, you know, so my cousin Sheila came over, I never learn. I never learn. You know, so I tried to, but I did it for like a week and then I gave up. It's a good idea. But I was like. It's a great idea. But, you know, and every joke we like, you know, so my cousin Sheila came over.

I never learn. I never learn. So that's good too. But also Dan is a bright guy. Yeah. And he's capable of doing a little bit longer form presentation. Yes. But you have to have the confidence.

Well, but also. I'm in the middle of a sentence, Dan. Finish your sentence. You have to have the confidence. I believe but also... I'm in the middle of a sentence, Dan. Finish your sentence. You have to have the confidence, I believe, I'm not a comedian, to sit through those longer periods without getting a laugh, where you start sweating bullets.

Am I losing them? Do they think I'm boring? You need that confidence to reinforce. I go through this in music, and I go through it even in interviews sometimes. I noticed in this interview I did recently, I cut sentences off because I know my internal monologue is like, I'm going on too long.

Let me take an extreme example to illustrate my point, which is the shit's got to fit with your style. Would you give that same advice to Stephen Wright? Oh, you know, yeah, you can do your joke about my thing. No, but Dan, he's really funny. No, but Dan, can I say? I mean, like, or David Tell. Can I say no matter what?

Would you tell David Tell to do long, real commentary? But Dan, even if you started with a longer thing... It doesn't fit with the rest of his shit. Yeah, because your style, you're never... Because you're great. Your style, you're never more than seven seconds away from a laugh. So if you took long-form stuff, you would eventually... As you worked it out, you would eventually have it punched up all the way through.

You're just doing it differently now, I think, instead of taking the whole thing and then punching it up. So let me contrast. And by the way, I would never presume to give a tell advice. But you wouldn't even think it because, you know, it doesn't fit. It just doesn't fit. Well, I don't know. I, you know, I presume if a tell spoke longer about things he was actually thinking about, it would be fucking awesome.

But you, but then he would, but, but, but I've never, but that's not day, but you are someone who offstage does talk longer form about things. So it's just,

and so, I mean, I'm, I'm aware that would be my second special. I'm aware that coming out of 2050, I'm aware that people have to be on stage who they are off stage. But I think that you actually could speak

longer on stage. And the only reason I said it to you back then is because it was obvious to me that those are the people who are getting bigger. We're people who are doing a slightly more elongated segments. Slightly more time on one topic,

as Mike's describing. So that was my suggestion. You could still be a joke guy in the topic. It's just like, you know, you can just hit it from, you could just do all the jokes on that topic. I think what Mike said is true, is that if you did it just by the nature of who you are and how you tell jokes that it would be, even if it were longer, it still would be funny every seven, 10 seconds.

So it's not that it could fit. Maybe right now it doesn't fit. But if you did it a little bit, it probably could fit. Food for thought. Look, look, look at Keith Robinson. You remember Keith before he had a stroke, right? Now Keith can't do a lot of that stuff, so he has a whole

new thing. It's still Keith. A new thing that came to him because of the limitations of his stroke. Many, many, many people say he's funnier than he's ever been, right? So it's still him. I'm not telling you not to be yourself. You're telling him to have a stroke?

To have a price to pay. But he was forced to come at it, to find it. Okay, I can't do it that way. Let me see. It's like a pitcher who he loses his fastballs. He becomes a knuckleball pitcher. Like, you don't know, but you can do that. Try it. Well, Neil Peart,

I don't know if you're a Rush fan. I enjoy Rush. Yeah. Well, he learned to play. He was playing one way his entire career, and then he completely flipped and learned an entire different he's passed on now, but an entirely different style. It's like Rocky. Like Rocky, where he ties

the southpaw or whatever. By the way, I did have a similar experience. I saw for the first time Marcello. Yeah, okay. You mean Marcello Hernandez? Is it Marcello or Marcello? I think it's Marcello. I think it's Monticello, but Marcello.

So Marcello. I believe so, yes. Marcello? Is it Monticello or Monticello? Well, actually, there's one in upstate New York, and then there's the Virginia. Monticello is Monticello in upstate New York. But Jefferson's house, I think, is Monticello.

I think his name is Monticello. I always thought it was Marcello, but... Hold on. What about Marcello Mastroianni? Is that... So... Hold on. Anyway, Marcello Hernandez, a very young.

Pronunciation is brought to you by PronouncedNames.com. Okay, we're waiting. Nabucco. Marcello. Marcello. What is that? Okay. That doesn't mean she's right.

It also doesn't mean. It's quite a haughty way to present yourself, how to pronounce Marcel. Well, do you watch SNL? How is he presented on SNL? You know... Marcelo Hernandez. However he pronounces it.

Like, of course, sometimes people with names in other languages, they anglicize their pronunciation. Anyway, Marcel Hernandez. I have a waiter at work for now, but his name is Ivan. But I presume, because he was Spanish, I said, do you pronounce your name Ivan? He says, yeah, but, you know, it's fine. Ivan's fine, because he made that accommodation,

because he knows that most Americans are going to say Ivan. Question, does Marcelo's mom call him Marcelo? She probably calls him Marcello, but we don't know. And in any case. And he was a young, handsome guy. He's on SNL. So I saw him, and I said to, I think it was to Juanita, like, wow, this guy's going to go places.

Turn out he's already on SNL. But I didn't know that. I didn't realize he was. This was like, whoa. Well, I mean, he's young and he's handsome. He's not just young and handsome. Okay, Ali Wong. I remember saying Ali Wong, like, holy fucking shit.

Look at this woman perform. Well, but would a white Ali Wong have done? I don't know. I'm saying that, like, I saw her, like, no, I couldn't guarantee you she's going to become a star. But it was notable above all the notable, like of all the people killing. She went on and it was like the rafters were shaking. You notice that now? It's true. She might never become a star.

I don't know. But it's not like it's not like I thought she was one of 30 people who were who were killing like that. She wasn't. How much does audience response matter? I mean, as a huge. How much does audience response matter? It's huge. What else is there? What if somebody's up there doing, you know it's complete nonsense,

but they're murdering? What do I care? Noam doesn't care. He doesn't give a shit. I let you perform. But not only does it go. No, that doesn't happen. Oh, it happens.

No, it doesn't. Oh, it happens. I can guarantee you it happens. Stuff that's just absolute, utter nonsense. Nonsense to you. Nonsense to you. This is like... Wait, what does that mean?

That's so snarky. What does that mean? Because musicians are often the last people to get when someone's great because they can't take it in without resorting to their own like checklist of what it means to be good music. What is it? They can't just take, they just get it.

So this is where like my father was guilty of it. He couldn't, he couldn't accept cause he knew Dylan. He couldn't accept that Dylan was this great artist to him. Dylan was this guy who couldn't sing, played a lousy harmonica on the fucking stoops of McDougal Street. I'll give you an example from my own act.

I did a joke here a couple of weeks ago. I talked about how- I'm surprised you're coming back to you. Go ahead. Well, fair point. I told a joke

about how I downloaded a meditation app and there was an English person and there was an English person and there was an Australian person and there were people from the Mid-Atlantic. I said, but you'd never want a person from the Bronx. Yeah, we talked about this. And it kills.

It's garbage! That joke is shit! Why is it shit? I laughed as soon as you said it. It's easy. It's derivative. There's a million other people doing jokes similar. It's crap! Yeah. So no, you don't agree that there's a million other people doing jokes similar. It's crap.

So no, you don't agree that there's a skill set at play here? There's a skill set at play. But it works every freaking time. It enrages him. This joke has been enraging him since he first started telling it. And it's so funny too. But it's easy. It doesn't require skill to write.

Marginal skill to perform. It's easy. It works. It's shit. Mr. Morales, that's a good joke. It's brilliant. Mr. Morales is fucking brilliant. But how many times do I have to tell you that you don't need to make your life as difficult as humanly possible?

Fair point. But Noam is saying that you can't kill with nonsense. And I'm saying you certainly can. Noam doesn't think that joke is nonsense. I don't think it's nonsense. You're right. And by the way, that's a lot better than some of the shit I've seen around the corner.

Listen, you're right that it's not, you didn't reinvent the wheel on that joke and I guess you're right that it's in a certain way derivative.

Well, I guess derivative. It's a type of pattern of joke that has been in certain contexts today. But it's a form. But this is what I was saying. And I'm a top 10%

sophisticated listener of jokes, right? I laughed when you said it. So you can tell me. Hold on. Stop interrupting me. When an ugly hooker jerks me off, I come. Can you shut up for a second? You can explain to me intellectually all the reasons why that joke is whatever you're saying it is. But I'm telling you, this is about a reflexive response.

This is jokes. And people either laugh or they don't. And you might. It's the same thing with music. You know how many songs are so fucking simple? Say, how the fuck? Every breath you take. Da-da-da-da-da.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Like a tune. You are my. Yes, yes. Is it derivative? Yes. It's totally based on Stand By Me. I mean, you can go through this endlessly.

The point is that you listen to it and you say, that's funny, Dan. And you know what? That's not so fucking simple to come up with. It's not crap. Yeah. But if you listen to it a bunch of times, would it be the same?

Versus listening to a great joke. But jokes aren't meant to be heard more than a bunch of times. And by the way, there's other levels to it. First of all, the nerdy Jewish guy doing the Bronx accent is funny in its own unique way. Who's the nerdy Jewish guy? Like when Godfrey does a southern white guy. It's amazing on some levels, but in some part,

it's also like, did you hear that black guy sounding exactly, that's funny too, or Eddie Murphy, like Eddie Murphy with a white guy voice, right? Why is that funny? Well, part of it is because he's a black guy, because it's Eddie Murphy. So, I don't know, how do you factor that in? Does that mean Eddie Murphy's

crap? No, but I think the bar, you're so sophisticated, and you set the bar so high that I think something like that, you just sort of toss it out because it's not to your standard. But I think Noam's right. There are levels of... But what about if Dan were to

go on stage with just memorized joke book jokes and just do them? Like Norm Macdonald did that a couple times. Is that a thing? Well, Gilbert Goffrey used to do dirty jokes. I was going to say, Gilbert used to do that.

But the performances. That joke about the baby that got lost at sea that Gilbert used to tell all the time? That the Jewish mother takes the baby. Oh, yeah, he had a hat.

Go, you do it. Oh, he had a hat. That's a great joke. The point is, obviously, you can't give that the same credit. I mean, it had a hat. That's a great joke. The point is, obviously, you can't give that the same credit. I mean, it's a skill, perhaps, to adapt it. In Gilbert's case, it was very effective, but you can't give the same credit.

And then what if somebody is not that funny output-wise, but they're original and they're working on it? They're working on it. You know, they're working on something. They're working on being original versus the constant output of laughs. Can you give me a for instance? I don't know. I don't want to – no one's coming to mind right now, but let's say a comic because we developed here in this club.

So it's like, does that person in this time, in this day and age, get the time to develop? I mean, they're looking at what's successful and what's hitting. And that's not always the best comedy. Well, that's a question for Noam. But what if they're doing something on stage and they're figuring it out, but they're doing it in their own voice? I think no one would say let them do it at another club.

Let's look at Dave Attell. Now, Dave Attell is so fucking funny. I know he's got to be a hero. Right, he is. From time to time, Steve Fabricant, you know, outside Steve, will say something to me. And I'll say, that's so fucking funny. He goes, it's Attell. Meaning like,

the words on the page of Attell are brilliant, which you can't say for every comedian. Just the fucking words on the page are brilliant. However, the performance is fucking brilliant too. Yes, it is.

I mean, and I don't know how to separate the two. If you had Dave David Tell's material, you would not get the mileage out of it that Dave gets. Of course not. No, but it's still brilliant material, but it's not enough. Not enough. Also, somebody like Daniel Simonson, right?

That the delivery, like the material's so funny, but it's also his accent and he's so unique. But getting back to Mike's question, what do you do? Just cut her off. It's okay. I'm sorry. Well, I really like this new policy here of we're not interrupting each other. No, nothing.

I was just giving another example of... Let me say something about interruption. But Mike had a question that I think is... Can I say something about interruption. But Mike had a question that I think is... Can I say something about interruption? Yeah, go ahead. This is what you don't understand. And maybe you understand a little bit. Conversation is a sensitive thing.

Interruption is part of conversation. Sensitive interruption. Interruption which is based on clarifying what somebody said, maybe disputing what somebody said, as opposed to interruption where you're basically just dismissing what's happened and to turn it to something completely different is a different kind of interruption. Or you're not listening. You're just talking to hear yourself speak. Or the frequency with which you've been interrupted or your sense for how important this particular moment is to the other person.

How far are they about to make the... There's a lot of fucking nuance that goes into interruption which people will simplistically say, you shouldn't interrupt. No, of course everybody interrupts. How you interrupt and whether or not you have the emotional intelligence to interrupt, this is what

separates the good conversationalists from the bad. I know Mike had the audience to think of and I know what they want. So sometimes I have to do what I have to do. But Mike had a good question that I think is for you to answer. Yeah, because didn't you say when Dave was coming up that

it was like, you weren't, you guys were not sure, and then a waitress said that he... No, not sure. My father was like, that's it, no more Dave Attell. He heard the waitress says it was a staff meeting. Then he first started. My father didn't used to come down late night.

You know, that's when they, all that late night stuff, and he heard about this comedian, Dave Attell, it was like, you know, bombing. My father said, that to come down late night. You know, that's when all that late night stuff. And he heard about this comedian. David Teller was like, you know, bombing. My father said, that's it. And Julia, the waitress who I'm still friends with, who was my father, she was extremely funny. My father had a high, extremely high regard for her intelligence and opinion.

He said, no, no, Manny, you don't understand. He's a genius. Now, this is interesting. Going back to your other thing, do you know? She was sophisticated enough. She got him. She never said anyone else was a genius. She saw it.

And my father said, hold off on that. Because he knew that if Julia said she was a genius, that there's got to be more than meets the eye here. But in a very short time, it emerged. So are there any comics that you would give that consideration to? You love what they're doing, but they're not killing that hard.

And you would say, but you know what? They're on to something. Or you would say. Yeah, we do do that from time to time. It's not as easy as it once was because we don't have the vibe of a late night, low pressure show where the audience, like the closest I guess we come to it is like New Joke Night, where at least the audience has somehow gotten the kind of disclaimer of the title of the show that you can't expect them to be all winners.

Like people are going to be working stuff out. So they come into it with that kind of thing. Late night comedy used to be like that. People understood this was late night, like going to see a jam session. But if you go to see, if you pay 50 bucks at the Blue Note and you see a jam session, what the fuck is this?

But if you know it's a jam session, so we don't really have, and that's something that's been worrying me for a long time now. So that's the best answer I can give. I mean, I suppose, especially when the new room opens, you might have the flexibility to devote one of the rooms

to a kind of a cool jazz, kind of an experimental, I don't know. You do have new joke nights, so maybe that's why. Maybe we need more new joke nights. And still, sometimes we get customers complaining about new joke nights, but I don't pay attention. That's great. But, you know, this is, yeah, I mean, the Comedy Cellar is not today. I remember those is yeah I mean the comedy seller is not

I remember those days I mean Dan remembers Dan's been here longer than me but I remember the half breaks you know what I mean I remember the the one long show at the end

and ten people being left but those ten people were always usually really good and you could get a lot of work done down there working out new material at 1 1.30 in the morning

absolutely when I started and we've told the story before, but sometimes there'd be zero people in the audience, and the waitresses would have to sit down and pretend to be audience members so that if somebody did come in, it would look like there was a show going on.

I went through this in music. See this? I'm thinking, nobody wants to hear this. Well, make it interesting. You can do it. Well, when I first started the Cafe Wah, we were slow a lot of the time and a lot of times we were slow we would jam

I'm kidding exactly we would jam we'd take chances we'd do familiar songs we would develop and the arrangements would develop

and the audience if there were like 20-30 people they'd be transfixed because amazing stuff would happen and then we became very very successful

and we couldn't do that anymore and it was way less fun right just this pressure of like you gotta do the A-list stuff. I think that was a very good point, and I think the audience would be interested

in your perspective. I mean, the music-comedy comparison, we make it a lot, and there are comparable elements, but music is different in many ways than comedy. Not as funny. It's less funny, typically, unless it's Weird Al Yankovic.

I mean, true or false? True or false? A song can be a hit, or it can be... A song can be a great song, or it can be funny, but it can't be both. There's a lot of comics that do funny songs, but if they could really write good music, wouldn't they just do that? Oh, I don't know.

You know? I mean, obviously there's very, very great funny songs in Broadway shows. That's true. With the show tunes, you can do it, very great funny songs in Broadway shows. That's true. That's true. With the show tunes, you can do it, but I don't know about pop. And I think that Jack Black's music is first rate, and even Adam Sandler's simple songs are actually musically interesting to me.

The Hanukkah song. I saw the way he did a lot of them. I like, you know, these are actually clever. I know, but nobody that can write Bohemian Rhapsody is doing funny songs. Well, Bohemian Rhapsody is kind of a funny song. Well, you're not laughing. I mean, it's...

They're not laughing, but it's... Unless you're watching Wayne's World. Yeah. I mean, if you could write The Long and Winding Road, you're not saying, ah, I'd rather do schtick. Shtick, no. But you're right.

Broadway show tunes can be both. Funny and melodically interesting. Yeah, yeah. And maybe that's because that genre of music lends itself to that. But I don't see it in the world of pop music. I mean, funny songs are novelty songs, you know, like, What's the matter, you? Hey, it's not so bad. No, that's a different thing altogether.

You're right. But there are some. Harry Nilsson has some funny songs. Who's Harry Nilsson? I can't live, live it is without you. That's a great song. You have a funny song? I can't live, live it is without you. I saw Mike looking at the time.

Are you pressed for time? No. We're almost done anyway. I'm here to know. Well, why don't we ask Mike a few more questions? We should. We should. Yeah, Mike's special.

I want to hear about his personal life. This is a great time to go to another clip. Yes, personal. We'll here to know. Well, why don't we ask Mike a few more questions? We should. We should. Yeah, Mike's special. I want to hear about his personal life. This is a great time to go to another clip. We'll go to another clip. We have another clip? Yeah, we do. Let's see the other clip. We're going to also cut them in. I'll have... No, let's hear it now. Boxing, everybody. I started again. We got no sound. I don't hear anything. So this is a time

where if I were Robert Kelly, I would just like make the producer cry. It happens to anybody. Bling bling. Okay. I'm a huge boxing fan. I love all kinds of boxing. And I was watching this one fight. It was a female fighter and her brother was the promoter.

And they were interviewing her. And they're like, how did you start fighting? And it's a tragic story. She goes, when I was young, I watched my father hit my mother. I was too weak to do anything about it, so I learned to fight, and it never happened again. I'm like, wow, that's pretty powerful.

Then I thought, but the brother, the promoter, grew up in the same home. So he must have saw the same thing and thought to himself, I can sell tickets to this. Now, is that a true story? Yeah, I did watch boxing, yeah. I did watch something like that happen.

Because now there's a bunch of, I'm a huge boxer. I go to the garden any time Lomachenko or somebody's fighting. And yeah, they have female fight cards on there now. What was the thing you said recently? It was so funny, but if someone made it up, it was actually genius. What was that? I was talking about Millennium Special. I was saying Millennium Special.

The point I made a couple weeks ago. I said Millennium Special was, at a minimum, an excellent special. Maybe more than excellent. But it was genius if he made much of it up. I mean, some of those stories were amazing. So to me, it's like more impressive to make shit up. Yeah, everybody wants authentic. Now, authentic is more interesting.

Yeah, they say authentic. I mean, nobody will ever know. So as far as we know what happened. Yeah, you could just tell people. We didn't. Right. But I, you know, if I were interviewing Mulaney, I would ask him that question. Now, he might not tell me the answer, but that's the question I would pose to him if we were.

Oh, he would tell you. Yeah, he probably would. But that would be, I would be most interested in knowing how much of that shit was exaggerated or made up. Did you see the special yet, Noam? I haven't seen it. I don't know if you're going to see it or not. I want to see it. He has some stories that are like,

that's the craziest fucking story I've ever heard. I think they're all true. Really? Well, what is podcasting? Podcasting, I think, is more about being interesting than it is actually being funny. I look at these, even our friends who have the biggest podcasts, it's really about being interesting.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think this episode hit both. This episode was good. This episode was not good. It was excellent. If you listen to Joe Rogan's podcast, I don't think you'd even suspect he was a comedian. No, you would never know it.

You would never know it. Not because he's obviously, I mean... Right, no, he keeps a serious tone. He keeps a serious tone. And less guys go on there and specifically change it, like a Tim Dillon or they'll go specifically. Have you done Rogan? I've done Rogan, yeah. I did it about a month

ago. Did you make a special trip to Austin to do this? Yes. Yeah. But it's great. It's just, it's a very free flow conversation. You know what I mean? You don't know what you're going to talk. I mean, I've obviously seen a bunch, seen it a bunch. So you don't know what you're going to talk about though.

So you got your million views on YouTube. So I guess the strategy is go on the road and hope those people will show up. Yeah. Well, you push to like now it's like social media push. And then the big thing is like always when you post in clips all the time, pushing dates because people don't know, man, they're like, you know, how many times have you left Chicago? And they're like, I hope you come to Chicago soon. It's like I was just in Chicago. How did you miss that? I was in Chicago. It's like because everybody's wrapped up into their own. They do have another hour ready to go for those people. Another 45 minutes. But I'm doing a different different one. You know, they don't. A lot of times they come wanting to hear. I don't. Yeah, I don't think that they, I don't think it matters as much.

It doesn't. But I have another one, you know, I'm doing something different. Now, 1.2 million clips on YouTube, views on YouTube, I'm curious. Does that translate into significant money? How does it? I'm going to find out. Oh, you don't know yet? I was in Moon Tower.

I did Rogan. I did Moon Tower. And I've just been doing every podcast now. So I haven't been on the road as much. I did Rogan. I did Moon Tower. I've just been doing every podcast now, so I haven't been on the road as much. End of May, I go to Chicago. I mean from YouTube ads. It's on Nate's. It's on the Nateland homepage, so it's not on my YouTube page.

You've got to demand an accounting. Well, but is Nate giving you a piece of the action? No, no. He paid for it. Yeah, he paid for it. 800 Pound paid for it. I've got to be grateful for that. Oh, okay. Yeah, he paid for it. 800-pound paid for it. So, you know, I got to be grateful for that. Now, what does 800-pound do? They're the production company. They put it all together.

So what did Nate precisely do? Nate directed it. Okay. He directed it, and they both put up money for it. So I didn't have to put up any money. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, that's good.

So it lives on his page. And then on this Thursday, 800-pound is going to put it on their page. You know? And so it's going to be. Is that Burr's thing? 800 Pound? No, I don't think so. I think it's.

Who is that? The Laugh Button? No. The Laugh Button people? It's its own thing. 800 Pound Gorillas out of Nashville. It's just so exciting to see it do so well, too. Yeah, it's very, it's exciting.

I've been doing this a long, you know. It's vindication, Mike. Yes, it's very good. It's satisfying. Obviously, we all want to connect, and I want to sell tickets. And, you know, that's the thing, to go on the road, sell tickets, and do another one and keep coming with it. Okay, I think that's a nice...

I'll tell you one other thing. So I did this podcast on Trigonometry. Trigonometry. Trigonometry. Oh, Trigonometry. With Constantine King. Oh, I remember. We had them on.

Yeah, yeah. And it was actually got some really nice comments on YouTube. But one thing I said got a little bit derided, which was I said that I felt like we were living right now in the golden age of stand-up comedy, that there's never been this many funny stand-up comics working all at the same time. You guys think that's true? I think, first of all, in terms of quantity,

that's absolutely true. One cannot dispute that there's more comics than ever. No, more high-quality comics. That's a separate question. That's a separate question. Probably, yes. I would say so, yeah. I mean, just by virtue of the fact

that there's so many of us, there's going to be a lot of good ones. Yeah. It's a boom right now, for sure. But can I say something? And this speaks to Dan also. You can't... I mean, you can have charisma,

but you can't replace the skill set of being in the clubs and working every day for years and years. Like, you can do TikToks, you can do all kinds of stuff that catches on, but you cannot replace that skill set. That skill set is something that we've been down here and you've given us the opportunity to work and to develop it. It's real. But every day for years and years, that's not replaceable. I think what Noam was trying to say is he's not doing it for you. No, he's not doing it for me, but I've had the opportunities here.

I think it's possible. No, go ahead. You were in this point, weren't you? No, Esty won that argument. If you watch old clips of gymnasts from the 50s, people doing gymnastics, they're basically doing just somersaults. Gymnasts? Gymnastics, yeah.

They're terrible. But little by little, people try to do a little bit better than that person to win the medal, and then the next person try to do a little bit better than that person to win the medal. And then the next person has to do a little bit better to win the medal. And over time, the level has gone up. So I'm making an analogy here. Maybe stand-up comedy, a bar was set. And now in order to get attention, you need to exceed that bar.

And now the next person has to exceed that bar. So I don't know if that's going on, but I think that's one explanation as to perhaps why maybe. But what about like in terms of like the social media kids coming up in a social media age where they're not forced to like before YouTube, Twitter, all that, we were forced to like hang out at the clubs and try to get on. And that was everything. Now it's not. That's not the case. Now it's like YouTube, TikTok, and I'm not shitting on it. It's just it is what it is. These kids have a different way to go.

But it's like, you see what's being lost there. Yeah. But I've also heard, I've also had, uh, comics, you know, who've been doing this for 25, 30 years. Tell me that you have these people who, you know, have hundreds of thousand millions of followers on Tik TOK, and then they get to headline a club and they're not funny. And then they don't, they can't, like nobody wants to come back the next time because of exactly what you're saying. It's like it might work for like in the short term, but in the long term, they haven't been doing it for that long. They don't have those skills. It's one thing to make a 30 second TikTok video.

And I'm not shitting on it either. But I think it's a different different it's a totally different thing but I don't think those people are looking long term would they like it to be long term? Of course but I think that they're just looking for maybe, I'm not speaking for them but like a money hit, as many money hits as you can get, maybe parlay it into a show

maybe parlay it into something even more money and then cash out of it I don't know what you do after that, maybe you think of something else but you don't have as much invested as we have invested. Right. We got to wrap it up. Okay.

I have to go. Great show. Thank you, Mike Vecchione. His special... Was that okay, Mike? Was that a good conversation? Yeah, I thought so. I thought so, too.

I know it's off. You guys are usually political or do you guys oscillate? Well, we oscillate. The Attract is directed and produced by Nate Bargatze, an 800-pound gorilla, available on YouTube. So thank you, Michael.

Watch it for free. Thank you for having me on. Watch it for free. And podcast at ComedySally.com for comments, questions, and suggestions. Bye-bye.