The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Nick Griffin & Rebecca Trent

Episode Date: March 17, 2017

Nick Griffin is a prominent New York City-based standup comedian. He can be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar and on late-night TV. Rebecca Trent is the owner of the New York City comedy club Creek & the Cave.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. We're here with Dan Natterman, of course, and Mr. Nick Grippen, and Rebecca Trent, the owner of Creek in the Cave in Long Island City. Is that correct? That is correct. Queens, Queens. And we're waiting for a woman who wrote, was it a flattering article about Creek in the Cave? Quite flattering.

One of the best ones ever written. All right. But normally, Natterman has some stuff he likes to... Did you read it? Well, I don't love the way Noam introduces that. I would prefer just to sort of an organic, or we organically flow into it. But in any case, well, first of all, I should mention that I just read on Twitter

that the show Crashing has been renewed for a second season. So I guess that's of some relevance because it's filmed here and it uses a lot of Comedy Cellar comics as cast members in addition to Comedy Cellar managers, bookers, and whoever else happens to be hanging around. But I guess that's good news. Did you hear that, Noam? Crashing?

I heard it was renewed, correct? That's what I just said. Yes, yes. But you were busy on your phone. I'm trying to... Okay, go ahead. Sorry, Dan. Go ahead.

Well, I'm just saying that crashing is renewed. But in other news, something happened to me last... on Friday that's never happened to me in over 20 years of doing stand-up. Oh. I had to leave the stage

early because I had to take... A little boom-boom? No! Really? This is the story you wanted to start with? What's wrong with that story? Was it something you ate? Boom-boom.

It wasn't a boom-boom. A boom-boom implies a certain consistency. More of a puddle? I was on at the Fat Black Pussycat. Oh, yeah? And I thought I could get through it. But after about ten minutes, I decided that I have to make a call. Yeah, good for you.

And Seton Smith, the emcee, was not in the room. Oh, no. So I had to just say... I ended on a laugh. Whether anybody in the audience knew there was anything amiss, the look on my face might have betrayed me, I don't know. But I then ran off stage and said to Seton, Seton, get back on stage.

I'm sorry, I had to leave the stage. So anyway, no one was looking at me with daggers in his eyes. No, I can't believe that. And where did you make your boom-boom? At the Underground? At the Underground. Now, in part, of course, I blame the cellar for...

Go ahead, say it. Go ahead, let it out. Well, first of all, I want to see how this gets around to the cellar's fault. I know already how this is. First of all... The chicken? Is that what you're going to blame? But even beyond that,

at the Village Underground, there's no good place to do that here at the Comedy Cellar. Downstairs, the bathroom is unacceptable. You will agree for that purpose. I don't like, I only go to my own home under protest. Truthfully, I don't like. Projectile diarrhea should stay at home. Boom, boom, he's not okay with me.

Now, around the corner. Like my daughter would ask, why did God make us have to make poop? Like, this is the kind of thing she had. I don't, like, it's not okay with me. My daughter would ask, why did God make us have to make poop? This is the kind of thing she had. I've said this before. God has all the equations up on the blackboard. Can't do it without poop. You can make the universe...

If I take poop out of the equation, the whole thing falls apart. We had to have poop, so go ahead. It doesn't make any sense to me. Do you suffer from an intestinal issue? Also, it's because around the corner at the Village Underground, there is a bathroom attendant. I believe his name is Ali.

He's a wonderful guy. He comes from West Africa. A beautiful man. And nobody hands me a towel like he can. Do you tip him, Dan? And I always tip. How much do you tip? I tip a minimum of a dollar. If I only have five, I say to him, here's five, but the next time I may not give you, Dan? And I always tip. How much do you tip? I tip a minimum of a dollar.

If I only have five, I say to him, here's five, but the next time I may not give you a tip and I do anyway. That's how generous I am. Classy, classy guy.

So we have a rapport. The problem is when you have a rapport with somebody, you don't want to do certain things in front of that somebody. Of course not.

So to go down there and I'm walking in and he said, hey, how are you, Dan? No time for that. You know, it's a little embarrassing. So my plan was to finish the set and get home as quickly as possible. My father used to go to Panchito's.

He did, because first of all, nobody noticed the difference in Panchito's. Second of all, he couldn't bear to do it in Ava's apartment He couldn't He had to have total anonymity So he would go to Panchitos And it had to be a Mexican restaurant One time I tried to go to NYU Law Which is around here

And the guy wouldn't let me in Because I wasn't a student I didn't have student ID For some reason The only time in my life Where I've had to make that compromise Has been in airports Something about traveling I can't From time to time life where I've had to make that compromise has been in airports. Something about traveling.

I can't. From time to time. But otherwise, I will not. I just won't. Oh, you will if it gets to a certain point. No, no. Oh, you will if you just had the hummus. No.

I would tough it out. Well, in any case. I don't have that kind of luxury. In any case, what can I say? I made the call that had to be made. We're here with... Did that woman come, the other guest? Was that the lady?

Oh, oh. We got stood up by a writer from the New Yorker. Was it New Yorker or New Yorker? New Yorker. The New Yorker, which is supposed to be a classy... It's a fancy magazine. Not New York Magazine, the New Yorker Which is But anyway We're here with the owner

Of the Creek in the Cave So she wrote an article About Creek in the Cave Which is a The only competitor Of the comedy seller That I will No

That I That I don't want to see Bad things happen to For whatever reason She's She's I met Rebecca And I took to her

and I think that we can be friendly competitors. I think the rest of them, they're nice to me, but they actually want to do me in. And we had that thing with the guys from The Stand a couple weeks ago, whatever. Anyway, it says, The Little Fish of

New York stand-up, The Creek and the Cape is a sprawling comedy complex. You know, I need to go. Can I go there? Yeah, please. That would be amazing. It's a sprawling comedy complex that includes a Mexican restaurant. Oh, you have a Mexican restaurant too.

Yeah. So you can make a boom-boom there. Yeah, I can. That's true. And a podcast operation and a bar. And what is the gist? Steven, you want to give us the gist of this article? What do you mean, the gist?

Sum it up for him. This is what I do. What do you mean, what do you mean, the gist? Put these on. What is it that you're trying to... Okay, so it's essentially saying that it's kind of an unkempt... What did you just call it? It's a well-kept secret.

Unkempt is what he called it. An? It's a well-kept secret. Unkempt is what he called it. An unkempt, well-kept secret. And that it actually, you know, is making underground strides in the comedy community. Hmm. And it also says here that your drinks are very cheap. Yes, they are. We have $2 off a happy hour.

So, like, almost everything's $5. And comics can drink PBR Tall Boys for $2 off Happy Hour So like Almost everything's $5 And comics can drink PBR Tall boys for $2 Oh And Cause that's You know That's a

Like a running Controversy Between club owners Like most of the comic clubs Have very very expensive drinks Right You choose to have Very very cheap drinks

Our drinks are cheap too Probably not as cheap as yours But our drinks are like Bar priced Yeah your drinks are normal prices. Yeah, yeah. We are an artist forward space. So we,

I took them about. We're not? Is that what you're saying? No, no, no. Not at all. But I just mean in the sense that like these guys literally badgered the shit out of me for about five years

and I finally broke down and got PBR. Like that was never really like. PBR is a brand of beer? It is a brand of beer. Paps, Paps, Paps. Paps Blue Ribbon. You're talking to Jews now. We really don't know this stuff. I'm sorry. It's the oldest beer in America. Well, no, I know Paps Blue Ribbon. I just didn't know the PBR.

They call it PBR. Yeah, yeah. So that's the... That's what the kids are calling it these days. But you can get a Tallboy for two bucks. What's a Tallboy? That's a... 16? No, 16... Is it 16 or 24? I think 16 ounces is a tall boy, right? I mean, you're the bar owner here. Well, I mean, you'd think, but he doesn't know either,

so I feel all right about it. I don't know. We don't have tall boys. I think it's a 16 ounce. Do you know your liquor percentages? Do you know how much you make on each liquor? How many shots in a bottle? Do you do all that nonsense? Yes, I do. I have to.

Yeah, I have to. I've never done that. And I know I should. Even when I needed to do it, I couldn't remember how to do it. I did it because it is very difficult to do, particularly in our business, because so much of what we do involves buybacks and stuff. You can't really definitively get it down to the nickel, but you can get it down to the dollar, you know?

So I try and keep it as close as possible. The original bar on, like, the beer distributors and stuff would make fun of me because I would do my inventory. I'd literally count the cans instead of just round up the cases and stuff. But I keep inventory tight because I want to make sure that I've got my shit together, and I also want to make sure that nobody's stealing from me.

Not that I think anybody is, but... I'm not criticizing you at all. It's always been one of my things I'm least proud of is that I just never... You just don't do it. I tried from time to time, but it just never got me anywhere. Do you know your food and your payroll breakdowns? Like what

percentage of gross they are? Yeah. I know what they used to be. That's kind of where I'm at too right now. But I also found that unless I could catch a bartender stealing... It does nothing for you otherwise. There's nothing I can get out of it.

I couldn't raise my prices more than the guy next door was charging. I couldn't get the liquor cheaper than what I could get it for. I tried to make sure that they didn't pour. That I do stay on top of. At least I used to. I I try to make sure that they didn't pour. And that I do stay on top of. At least I used to.

I would try to catch bartenders not ringing up alcohol. Do you guys have a buyback policy here? No, I got rid of buybacks. What does that mean? Usually when you have a regular customer

who you can tell is parked there for the night, every third, fourth, or fifth drink will be on the house depending on the bar. It's basically management-sanctioned stealing is what it is. Basically. And we used to do it, and then I had a rule that the bartenders had to ask the manager for permission before the buybacks or whatever it is. And then I just said, fuck it, no buybacks.

If that's the only reason they're coming, we'll just have to find some other. Because I just opened a door. There was no way to control it. When I used to spend time in my bar all night on a regular basis, I was ready to allow certain things. I felt I had a feel for it. At the point where I changed, I spent more time at home, I said, you know what, no.

You just have to cut it off altogether. I just cut it off altogether. And it didn't hurt business at all. No, it won't. By the way, what do you mean by artist forward? Yeah, what do you mean by that? That's a term I've never heard. Wait, just before you answer that, Nick, have you ever worked in Creek in the Cave? No, I have not.

What the fuck? Because one of the things is, I can't just call Dan and be like, hey, I don't pay spot pay like you guys do. This guy has more letterman appearances than any human being. You're not listening, no. But we don't charge covers and stuff. I look for those comics to come to me, like Ted Alexandro, Colin Quinn. They come to me and say, hey, I want to do a run at the creek

or I want to do this, that, and the third, and we always accommodate and make sure. But that's what I mean by artist forward. It's not really so much... I want to make sure that the comics are taken care of. Because we're there to sort of be a dojo for every level of comic, in my mind. And then on top of it,

we're also there to sort of educate the audience. Because there's a lot of people who don't know how to be a member of a comedy audience. They are terrible, and it's an education process for them as well, I think. Well, see, that's the difference, Noam. When she says she's artist forward, what is it she views the Creek in the Cave as a workshop, she called it a dojo,

whereas you see this as the graduate school. Everybody does. This is where you get your PhD. You're not looking to develop people. Right. I don't know about looking to develop people, no. With the caveat that

if you think somebody's going to be famous, you might want to get on their good side and start using. Obviously, that's good business. I mean, this is what I think. And I think Rebecca is saying the same thing, actually, although she's not putting it this way at all. She went in it, she seems to be

in it to have fun in a certain way, because this is what you enjoy. You don't have any responsibility in life to be an artist friendly to help comedians. You enjoy comedians. I promised my grandfather before I died that I was going to give two years

back to the community and because I'm a military brat it is really important for me to build environments wherever I live. I do that because I lived in a different environment every two to three years of my life. So I grew up with that. Wait, wait, wait.

You're kidding about your grandfather, right? No, I'm not kidding. You said before you died. Before he died, obviously. Before my grandfather died. Did I say it wrong? I'm sorry. You said it wrong, but it's okay.

I promised to give two years back to my community before my grandfather. Long Island City is your community? Whatever I defined that as. He was a physics professor at Old Dominion University. That's fascinating. So when I graduated from college, I helped run a nonprofit in Washington, D.C. called City at Peace. I did that for two years,

and then I moved to New York to do what I wanted to do. And what I realized was I enjoyed so much that work that I did with City at Peace, I wanted to apply it to groups of serious artists, artists that were working towards a goal. I worked with theater people. I worked with musicians. By far, the ones I wanted to work with the most were the comics. And is your grandfather still alive?

No, he's not. He passed away when I was a freshman in college. Can I ask why were comics the ones that you most wanted to work with? They were the ones I wanted to break bread with. They were the least likely to break my stuff, like steal my mic stands, tag up the neighborhood, that kind of stuff. Like they were the most polite. And then also they were the most under advocated for group of artists in this country. We expect immediate response from them, immediate material from them for every single facet of this world, pop culture, observational humor,

it doesn't matter, anything. And nine times out of ten, they're not getting paid. There is no HR department. There is no gold watch at the end of all this. Like, there is nothing there. And to watch that level of sacrifice on a regular basis and know that they're not going to get the payoff, it makes me want to advocate for them.

It makes me want to be a part of that community in a significant way that's going to help them. Were you a fan of that, of comedy, before you? I mean, sure. I grew up with Comedy Central. I love stand-up comedy, and my background was in theater, but it just never occurred to me that comedy was a career. I don't know how you guys got the message when you were growing up

that that was an option. Well, I didn't get the message. That's why I went to law school. Ah, I option. Well, I didn't get the message. That's why I went to law school. Ah, I see. No, I didn't get the message at all. But, you know, eventually I went in that direction. But, yeah. Yeah, I don't know what it was I thought.

I'm still not getting the message. What about you, Nick? Did you always want to be a comedian? Yeah, I think on some level. I never wanted to. I wanted to be a novelist or something. But then I was always into comedy, really into comedy at a young age. Probably, you know, 12, 13, I would rent a VHS of, you know, Pryor and stuff.

Pryor was your favorite? Well, I mean, no, just only because he was what was out. Like, there was only 10 VHS tapes of certain comics, you know, and his was one of them. I liked all the guys back then, Seinfeld and Louis Anderson and a handful of others, but...

Nick has a sinus infection, by the way, in case you're wondering. Yeah, I have. But it's been there for years and years and I can't get rid of it. It is.

But then I did stand-up one night at an open mic night in college. I was around all these other cool young comics, and I caught the bug, and I never stopped. Wow. That was at the end of a kind of a comedy boom in the late 80s. So there's a ton of work.

I got out of college, and I could make not a lot of money, but I could pay my bills just doing stand-up around the country. Are we experiencing a comedy boom now? No. I don't know. We're experiencing a comedy saturation right now. It seems like there's a boom insofar as the public perception of stand-up comedy. It seems to be everywhere. First of all, on TV, we just mentioned Crash.

It got picked up for a second season. There's like 400 documentaries out right now. There's documentaries on comedy. Comedians are selling out the garden. They are. People want to be comics. That's for sure. That Comedians are selling out the garden. They are. People want to be comics, that's for sure. In that sense, there's a boom. Whether the average comic is making more money than they did in 1988, I don't think so.

I don't think so, but certainly at the high end, they're making probably a lot more. They're making more money at the cellar than they ever did before. But it's spread out over more of them, isn't it? Or have you always had this number in your team

well as I said on the it's not spread out over more of them as I said on the last episode that you were on whether there's a comedy boom or not

is an open question that there is a comedy seller boom is without question without question obviously there's a boom right here in this in our little corner

of the comedy world known as the comedy I mean that's easy to say but it's hard for me to imagine that we're having a boom outside the general public interest in it. I mean... Yeah, right. The two have to...

There is some relation. But the boom at the comedy cellar is out of all proportion, I think, what's going on in the rest of the stand-up comedy world. Yeah, I think the boom at the cellar is about people wanting to be at the cellar or wherever. But a lot of clubs around the country, I don't think, are seeing a ton of people coming up, but they are watching it more than they ever have. And there's bigger names

and more big names than there ever have been, I think. So maybe we shouldn't open in Vegas. Is that a thing? You're going to open in Vegas? Thinking about it. Well, not just thinking about it, but from what I hear,

it's almost a done deal. It's not 100%. Well, there's been papers drafted, but I haven't signed anything. So why don't you think you should open in Vegas? Because you don't... If there's no comedy boom,

I'm going to lose my shirt. No, you won't lose your shirt. I don't think you'll lose your shirt. Well, there's something. I don't think... No. Carrot Top's still selling out in Vegas. That's tourist dollars

It's different You know my father on his deathbed Made me promise to take care of my aunt And I said I can't promise that That really happened? That really happened And then he says well just try Finish my story for me

Thank you Stephen It wasn't finished It's called timing you jackass So you said to your grandfather Last time I told you You told your grandfather You'd spend two years And those two years are up?

Those two years have been up since Since the fucking towers fell Have you changed your motorcycle baranda Since the two years ran out? I mean I I did a little bit of soul searching for myself for a couple of years and then ended up buying the Creek. But you still see it as a way to give back.

I do. I mean, it's certainly not a way for me to become lucrative financially. Rebecca. Yes. Move to New York. Not that I want you to. You mean Manhattan? Of course. Oh, I mean, I'd love to. You can do it. Not that I want you to. You mean Manhattan? Of course.

Oh, I mean, I'd love to. You can do it. That's an expensive endeavor. No, no. No? It can be, but... Well, but is there... No, I mean, he's 100% right.

I would be living a completely different life if I was in Manhattan. Is there enough market to support another comedy club in New York? More than Long Island City, yes. Let me tell you what I know from experience. Over the course of 18 months, if you have your ear out, there will come across an opportunity

of getting into a space in Manhattan very cheaply. There's always somebody going broke, someone who's six months behind in a rent, someone who's... The entire Fat Black Pussycat, the entire fat black pussycat, the lounge next to it, and the village underground, was a $10,000 investment.

Motherfucker. Holy shit, I can't even wrap my head around that. This is what happened. I was supposed to close, I was supposed to come up with $20,000. I didn't have the $20,000. I went to the closing, and I said, look, I got $10,000. I'll pay have the $20,000. I went to the closing, and I said, look, I got 10. Here's what I got.

I'll pay the other 10. When I can. Oh, no, over the next 12 months. And they said, okay. So I put $10,000 down. The other 10 came in from the bar. From that money, I was able to move to the east and the extra room. And then I took a partner who invested to build the

underground. But these things happen all the time and that's a huge space. It really is, yeah. But, you know... And you do it even cheaper if you don't have a bathroom attendant. That's all true.

That's actually the thing that I would be most, I'm not pushing back on you, but I think that's the one thing that Creek would stand to lose most from moving to Manhattan is that right now you have, much like the cellar does, you have a complex, you have a hang, you have the restaurant upstairs,

you have the theater, you have the pinball machines downstairs, you have the podcasting studio in the adjacent room, you have the outside. You have the pinball machines downstairs. You have the podcasting studio in the adjacent room. You have the outside. You know, is that something that you... Spoken like a Gentile. I mean, the truth of the matter is that, I mean, he's right in the sense, because there's so many spaces in New York, I could find a space that's comparable.

There are an awful lot of spaces in New York that are underutilized. Back rooms, that kind of thing. What did you say? You don't have to give up the one in Queens. Backrooms, that kind of thing. What'd you say? You don't have to give up the one in Queens. Yeah, no. No, but I mean, just based on what you're, I mean, it is the most sound advice. There is no question whatsoever that I would be much better off in Manhattan. I'd be able to do, I mean, hell, the comics would have birthday parties there more.

That alone would be worth it. You know what I mean? And if you're booking them here, then you will have a much easier time of getting them to go. To get bigger names and they can bounce. To go perform in Queens, too. Exactly. I'll give you this five-star. You do the weekend.

They'll do it. They'll do it happily. Not like you're twisting it around. And the Creek right now isn't even a past club. We're in the process. I'm going to announce at the Creek Awards. But we're about to become a past club. What do you mean a past club?

Well, like, right now anybody can perform there on the main stage or downstairs. You've invented two new words here today. Have I? Past club and artist forward. I really thought that was a... Well, artist forward may be an actual term. I feel like that is. Past club, I think you just made that up at a whole club.

I did, well, I'll do it. That's fine. I made it up. I'll take it. I've never heard it. But, you know, we're about ready to... The past club means that not anybody can perform there. As you define it. Not just anyone can...

Yeah, there's a list of approved people to book from. I get it. It's funny that you mentioned the emphasis on community earlier because that's what I've always seen as the reason why Creek, in my opinion, has always been comparable to the Cellar is because there is a sense of community. It's not just approached by the higher-ups as a pure business. I mean, you talk to some... I hate when people say that.

It's a pure business, Steve. No, no, no. You know what I mean. You talk to some club owners, maybe perhaps even some club owners that were on the episode of our show that featured the other club owners, and they don't have a hang. They don't have... Because they're not good businessmen. I should have said that.

I shouldn't say it's pure business. There's no separating it. Put it another way. If it were bad for business, you wouldn't do it. I would not do it. Why do all these other clubs struggle so much? I mean, really struggle to get by when you are kind of thriving. We struggled for like 20 years.

No, of course. You didn't struggle. You paid your bills. No, no, we struggled. The bills got paid. Yeah, but struggling doesn't mean you're not paying your bills. Struggling means you go behind a few months in this. You go behind a few months in that.

And if one big thing had happened, then... Can you let me talk? you're not paying your bills. Struggling means you're... You're biting your fingernails off. You go behind a few months in this, you go behind a few months in that. And if one bad thing had happened, then... Can you let me talk? We wait for the summer to come when the business is stronger to make up for the bad times that you had. That's struggling, right? No, go ahead, Sarastro. I suppose.

No, and if one bad thing had happened, you said that your father said that from time to time. Like, if there had been one storm... There was one particular year where we felt like we were one snowstorm away from disaster. I don't know, the fact that these other clubs still exist makes me

wonder, makes me think you may be exaggerating slightly when you say that you were one snowstorm away from disaster. Because all these other clubs are still around. But that doesn't mean they're thriving. Yeah, but they're still, they're not out of business. They're existing. Well, in some cases, they own the building that they're thriving. Yeah, but they're still, they're not in a business. They're existing. Well, in some cases, they own the building that they're in.

And in some cases, they have a lease that's so long that they're paying 19 whatever rents instead of current rents. But if they were to be put in a situation where they lost their lease or they had to move, there's no way they'd survive. I think that's, I mean, that's basically... It's like living paycheck to paycheck as a family. It's the same way with small businesses. I'm not saying there weren't relatively lean times. I think that no one... Oh, it's getting loud.

It's a motherfucker. It really is. Fight's about to break. Oh, that's Keith Robinson. Never mind, never mind, never mind. It's Keith Robinson. Anyway. He's got a condition.

Leave him alone. Leave it as it may. Obviously, now things are 10 times better than they ever were. Try 20. And Noam is floating in a sea of cash. No, no. I'm just saying things were really tight for a very, very long time. I mean, listen, whatever.

Yeah, we did struggle. We definitely struggled. This is how we struggled. I remember when it was time. That's going to sound wrong. Never mind. Just take my did struggle. We definitely struggled. This is how we struggled. I remember when it was time... That's going to sound wrong. Never mind. Just take my word for it. We struggled.

Meaning that a guy in our... Well, I didn't have $10,000. I didn't have $20,000 to put down on a business in year 2000. I could not come up with the $20,000. Come on. Nick Griffin can come up with $10,000. So, you know, now was I living badly? No, I would go out to dinner. I had a car, whatever it is.

But in the end, I was not able to get ahead enough to put away any real money. So that's... Business owner broke just doesn't look the same as other kinds of broke. But it's still broke. It's the same thing. I'm in debt to my eyeballs. I have zero money. I haven't paid myself in 10 years. Broke is broke. It looks good. You know what I

mean? Nobody thinks that I'm broke, but I am. It's just the reality of it. And in New York, you have to pay an asshole tax just for being here. There's so many things that you get banged out for that you can't even imagine. You have to pay six months worth of insurance up front for your restaurant. You have to pay every two years. You got to, you got to shell out a significant amount of money, a check with a comma in it to the state liquor authority, even though you've already paid 20,000 for your liquor license 10 years ago. Like it's just constant. You constantly get banged out for stuff. So it's hard to plan even like to know how much money you need to have in the coffers from year to year, because some years are worse than others, you know? And the winter is a time of uncertainty.

March is the worst month of the year, and the 7 train isn't running for every weekend in March this month. So I'm extra fucked for my worst month of the year. And now business is so good, like if it had been a bad snowstorm, I would have lost a fortune day. Were you guys closed on Tuesday? It's a joke.

Were you guys closed on Tuesday? No, we were not closed. You stayed open, right? Yeah. But because the snow worked out. You know, it snowed early in the morning. Right. So what else?

Well, we had another guest, that woman from the Apple Cider. Cinder Block. Cinder Block. Comedy Festival. I don't want to make an enemy of this woman who was supposed to come on the show. The New Yorker lady? Yeah. But because that would be a dumb thing to do.

Like, I saw Carlito's way. I know to be careful. But Benny Blanco didn't show up to the show today, and it's kind of annoying me. Like, at least calls and tells you're not coming. Right? Anyway, go ahead. So, Cinderblock lady?

This is Alison Klimp, everyone. You want her? Oh, I know Alison. Can I show her this? Imagine if I showed you something that was really unflattering. Is this my bio? No. It's her, right? Yeah.

Oh. So this is Allison Klimp from the Cinderblock Comedy Festival. What the hell? Why isn't Corey here? I am her surrogate. I'm the Katrina Pearson. We only got the five microphones anyway. Are you a founder of the Cinderblock Comedy Festival?

I am one of the founding producers. Oh, that's exciting. That's cool. Corey is the originator of it, and she is the main director that we all report to. In a nutshell, what is the Cinderblock Comedy Festival? The Cinderblock Comedy Festival is a... We're now in our second year. It's a festival that is a diversity-minded

festival, but we're not, sorry. Talking to white guys. Yeah. Basically, we got a lot of flack last year because we have a wage gap pricing submission fee. What does that mean? So it's that for our early submission

process, we are open for women, LGBT, people of color, people with disabilities to apply at a... Essentially anybody but somebody white, correct? Everybody except straight white guys, basically. Straight white ladies still get a discount.

Everybody but straight white people. And you're comfortable with that? Yes, they were comfortable with that. Go ahead. We still, you know. This is just for the early submission process, just to give the other people a little bit of that one head start. And also it's mostly to send a message that,

hey, other people that are not straight white men who maybe you feel ostracized, we want to hear you also. And then for a general submission, which is now what we're in, white guys can also apply at the same rate as everybody else. But they don't have any shot. They have plenty of shot. I'm kidding. So did I miss anything?

So what is it? It's just a comedy festival? It's just a comedy festival. It's just a comedy festival. With the emphasis on diversity. With an emphasis on diversity for the submission process, but when we when we're doing the booking,

when we're reviewing people's tapes, we apply the same standards to everybody. Now, what kind of diversity are you? You seem ethnic of some sort of ethnicity.

That is, yes. That is not, of a non-European nature. If you were to guess. Transgender. Racially. Racially transgender. Well, your last name is Klemp, so that doesn't help a whole good deal.

I, for a fact, know she's not Jewish. So that's out. Contrary to popular opinion. Contrary to popular belief. Well, Jews have been lumped in with white people for purposes of diversity, generally speaking. Certainly. Well, in comedy, I guess it's more of a gray area. You look Spanish.

So what do you think? Spanish? Latina. Latina? I get a lot of Spanish. I get a lot of Latina. I'm actually, Japanese is my other,

but yeah, Japanese and German. You're half white, half Japanese. Yes. Konnichiwa. Is it half? Half really?

It's more of a quarter. It's a quarter. I do think that, generally speaking, I poo-poo the notion of diversity, of physical diversity. In other words,

diversity to me is a great thing when it's diversity of opinion, diversity of skills, diversity of, you know, those sorts of things. I do think in comedy, however, diversity does have some intrinsic value because I think talking about experiences on stage makes for a different point of view.

In other words, I do want to know about what it's like to be transgender. I don't think in a business setting having X number of blacks, X number of whites, and X number of Hispanics is of much validity. But I do think in a stand-up context, having

diversity has some validity because the audience probably wants to hear different points of view. And that's exactly the point is that it's like there's lots of people with different backgrounds and those people have different perspectives.

Assuming, of course, that you talk about those things on stage. Yeah, but I feel like that's kind of the trend is that most people talk about their life experiences. Now, what about

there's a blind fella who goes by the name of Brian Fishler. What color is he? He's a white, well, I think he's Jewish, but he's white. Oh, disability.

Disability. He's disability. Because I'm wondering... What about somebody who can't get to a set without pooping? Is that a... Well, lactose intolerance is certainly, you know... Count for something. It's also a way to differentiate your...

Brand. Your festival. Yeah. It's just to do it. Yeah, exactly. It's a good PR hook. But what about a blind guy? Yeah, of course a blind guy. If he's funny.

No, but would he get a special treatment? Could he fly under the diversity quota? Yes. Be sure to charge the glow tape that day, probably.

This is my thing about diversity. How do you light a blind guy, I guess is how I would... Oh! No, he has... Well, I'm not sure, by the way, number one. He has a guard.

He performs with a dog that might be able to perceive... You light the dog and then the dog... Well, I assume that a dog can see a light and can go... Yeah, yeah. I would be interested in the training process of that, getting the dog... Or maybe... Does he take the dog on stage? Yes, he does.

Oh, that's interesting. In general, this is my thing about diversity. Although you can present to me a scenario on a given night where diversity benefited whatever enterprise it was introduced into, on the whole, I think the social costs of diversity, the tear in the social fabric, and the lowering of reprioritizing DNA, as it were, over objective standards is one of the most damaging things that happened to our society in the last 30 years. When I was a kid, you would look at, and I've said this before, you would look at a workplace.

And if you saw no diversity, you would say would say well that might be evidence of discrimination you know it was supposed to be content of your character not the color of your skin and if you saw all white people say well maybe there's some racism going on there now it's no longer now it's the end is to make sure that there is

diversity even if it doesn't mean the content of your character even if it doesn't mean the most talented people character, even if it doesn't mean the most talented people, unless, of course, it's sports, in which case you got to win the basketball game. So there's no interest in diversity in certain things where it would be absurd. But in a workplace where it's just not so obvious how many points somebody is scoring and does not clear stats and you don't have wins and losses, they'll give you a million reasons why you have to have diversity. Yes, but no, what about my point that in the specific world of stand-up comedy,

diversity has some intrinsic value because... Listen, I book a comedy show and I get this pressure all the time, need more women, more this. I'm like, you know, they think they want more women. I put on the five funniest acts. Right. And it's great if it's a woman. But there is some extra value if you can get diversity.

No. Can I ask this? If you woke up tomorrow. Wouldn't you like a female perspective? No. Okay. What I want is the happiest customers. For the purpose of business, though,

if you woke up tomorrow and 100% of your entire comedy team that you work with, all your artists are all white guys, wouldn't that make you uncomfortable or make you feel like you needed to? No. Not at all? Yeah, but it would affect business. I think it would. I mean, it's bad PR if nothing else. The worst thing that I can do

to business is to not have the best acts. Yes, I agree. But it would affect business because variety is an intrinsic part of the product that you're selling if you have five guys that go on and talk about similar things

you need to have a black guy to talk about the black experience the audience wants to see that otherwise it doesn't give white people permission to laugh at white people

like you have to have that's another point also you probably have black people gay people whatever people in the audience and people tend to

connect with what they are. If you give them a questionnaire before the show, would you like to see someone talk about it? They'll say, yes, of course I'd like to see that. But then afterwards, if he wasn't funny, they say, would you have preferred to see that guy, the white guy? They say, yeah, we'd rather have seen the funny white guy. Yeah, but given a choice, when you have a shit ton of funny...

But I feel like this is also implying that we don't book funny people because we still hold everybody to the same standards. Given a shit ton of funny people, though, no. Hilarious would be if you only booked white guys and just did this for the submission. Just for the record, we book a very diverse show here. Oh, of course you do. I wasn't saying anything that you weren't. Of course you do.

And it's with no eye towards diversity, which I think is the ideal that we're supposed to be working towards as a society. To make diversity an end in itself is just to tell people to define themselves. It's weakening. Always in terms of their chromosomes. You're not listening, though. And that, I think, I'm just saying this has a huge social cost attached to it. I agree with you, but in the world of stand-up comedy, variety and differences are part of the product. There is an intrinsic benefit. If you have a shit ton of funny people, some are white, some are black,

aren't you going to make some effort to mix it up a little bit? It's also different. I mean, the answer is yes. The absolute answer is yes. If I look at your lineups, you know, I see there's always a black guy. There's no effort to mix it up. You would not book a show with no black guys on it, generally speaking.

Keith Robinson, would I book a show with no black guys? Absolutely. Absolutely, he says. No, no, the second that we have some black guy in the lineup, or any guy in the lineup, that everybody says, listen, he's just not as funny as the rest of the guys, people are going to look at him, what are you doing? You're giving him a spot because he's black?

But that's not what we're doing. No, I'm not saying it's what you're doing. But if you're not doing that, then you shouldn't even have to consider diversity. But given a lot of people at a high level of skill, I'm not saying book an unfunny black person or an unfunny Indian person.

I'm saying, given you have a large group of people to choose from, it's a good thing. You have Mo Amir, for example, who's new here, who brings the Arab-American perspective, if you will. Yes, but that's not why we book him. It's a wonderful benefit.

It's a wonderful benefit. That's all we wanted. Is that it's a wonderful benefit. You do agree that diversity has some benefit. There's a benefit to it. Particularly with this work. The better question is, would it book a show without a white guy? Could you speak into the microphone?

Would I book the show? What? Would you book a show without a white guy? Would you book a show without a white guy? And the answer is no. Yes. No, no. Keith, I'll tell you this.

When I had my band in the old days, when I first started my band in the Y, it was all white guys and one black guy. And over the years, every time somebody would leave the band, I would have auditions, and I ended up hiring another black guy and another black guy.

To the end, it was like seven black guys and me. And I was worried, like, how will this be perceived by the audience? Would it start changing? It didn't matter. Nobody cared what color anybody on stage was. They still came in the same way because it was good. That's music.

Music is different from comedy, obviously. Why is music different than comedy? You're expressing your own personal experience. It's different from comedy because everybody knows we dominate music. And you dominate comedy. No, we don't we dominate music. And you dominate comedy. No, we don't. No, they don't dominate comedy.

They have it. No, like, it's different. Between, well, maybe you don't dominate comedy, but you're pretty well represented in the top comics. Kevin Hart, Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock. Those are the three biggest. Those are the three biggest. Those are the three biggest Netflix specials anyway. Yeah, but I'm saying it's different to have an all-black guy show. You can have an all-white guy show,

but you can never have an all-black guy show. When have you had an all-black guy show? That night we had that big fight downstairs. That Wild West fight we had where they're throwing chairs. That was the last time. Never again. No, listen, I'm sorry to sound like a curmudgeon

about this. Of course, I'm sentimentally pleased when I see diversity. Like I said I'm sentimentally pleased when I see diversity. Like I said to you one time, when I see a brown-skinned family celebrating Thanksgiving, I feel tremendous pride in my country.

When Mo Amir did the Colbert Show, I was like, this is a great country. Here's this Palestinian guy going on a Colbert Show. This is what's best about America.

I just don't like to see that as the end in itself. I just think what's best about America. I just don't like to see that as the end in itself. I just think what's wonderful about America, the end in itself should be quality and integrity and all that stuff. And then what's wonderful is to see that in America, this is accomplished with a diverse group of people. In comedy, variety adds to quality. You say what, Rebecca? Oh, I mean, we do all blackblack shows at the Creek every now and again

and all-girl shows at the Creek every now and again, and it's not the goal. It's just how I end up booking the show that night. It's not intentional. Would you have an all-woman show if you had five killer female acts that just annihilated the room? Of course I would. Why not?

But the bigger thing, too, is that a lot of times when you do have these all-female shows or an all-black show or an all-whatever show. I don't advertise it that way, though. Because I don't think there isn't any reason to. You don't, but that does happen, and especially with festivals. That's garbage. And you're like, ladies are funny, too. Comedy festival.

And all this crap. And that's kind of the stuff that this was a response to, was to basically be like, look, we can present a festival that has all these different people with different perspectives on it without also being derivative to those people. Now, look, you have your enterprise there, the Cinderblock Festival, and I have nothing but support for any entrepreneurial thing. It's great. So don't don't misinterpret what I'm saying. OK, but we just hates affirmative action. But when you actually

go out there and give money off the submissions based on the accident of birth, it bothers me. It just bothers me. It seems as un-American as anything else.

Well, it's a difference of $6. Whatever. It's the principle. Well, the counterpoint would be that we are a victim of our own biology and we have to deal with the wage gap on the reg. I mean, like, you understand Well the counterpoint Would be that We are a victim Of our own biology And we have to deal

With the wage gap On the reg I mean like You understand The obvious counterpoint It's not based On poverty On poverty

I'd be fine with it If somebody said Listen We're gonna get You require everybody To submit their tax returns But the wage gap Isn't based on poverty either

If they wanna get money If they wanna get money off They wanna get money off To somebody who needs Who can't Who needs Financial The presumption is Is that white men Have more money Than everybody else I suppose I know plenty of white men They want to give money off to somebody who needs financial... The presumption is that white men have more money than everybody else, I suppose.

I know plenty of white men without two nickels to scrape together. So do I. But they have to pay full price. I don't like that. And I think that's the argument that a lot of people had. I mean, you guys received death threats, and they went through an awful lot of negative PRs or results in this last year. No, you're not alone at all.

But if you can't afford... So. Not at all. Not at all. But if you can't afford the $6 difference in the pricing, then you can't afford to come to New York for a weekend. Then why do it? See, it's a ton of, it's like a, mostly a joke. It's PR. It's PR. It's PR.

It's to get people's attention, you know, and it works. Like we do Skank Fest, Louis J. Gomez and Christine Evans and I do Skank Fest every year. Well, this will be our second year, much like Cinderblock. We started last June. And we don't do submissions. And we make sure everybody gets paid for every time they go on stage. Like, we just, cutting out that submission stuff cuts out that conversation entirely for us.

Are we not, as a society, truly creating a white nationality where there wasn't one before? If you define everything. I'm serious now. No, I know you're serious. If you define everything in terms of non-whiteness, what are you leaving? The poor white guys? No, just white guys. Don't be flippant about it because what you're leaving is everybody else is a nationality

except you guys, even though you're not. That's ridiculous. They're going to say, yes, we are, too, then. You can't wonder-bred culture us. I completely agree. I understand. Let's ask the only real white man at this table. I only see one.

Wow. All right. Nicholas James Hutchinson Griffin III. Go ahead. My goodness gracious. No, I'm all for diversity. I don't like how when the government

demands it because then you're screwing with the product that this person is delivering to its customers. That makes me sad that everything isn't up to them because they're the one taking the risk. But I do think

in the past the history history of, you know, black people and other minorities where they haven't even been allowed to do certain stuff that you have to do. Nick, how do you feel about losing? Losing who? Your white privilege. In a majority non-white nation that is predicted by 2040. Yes.

You may be dead by then. We all could be dead by then. We all could be dead by then. I don't know. Me and Nick probably will be dead by then. I think it's going to be okay regardless, but I do think it does cause so much friction between people when these things tend to come up.

How do you feel about losing? There's two ways to feel about losing If you live in a society where people don't really Emphasize our race and our Ethnicity and our sex And you're going to become a minority Then you're like, whatever If you live in a society where that defines

Everything, you say, oh shit I'm going to become a minority And that matters Become a minority? Yeah, it matters Someone's going to make the choice to become a minority? No, because what he, everything is, yeah, it matters. Someone's going to make the choice to become a minority? No, because what he was saying is that by 2040, white people are going to be in the minority in the country, which ought not to matter rationally unless you live in a society

where it does matter, in which case you have every right to say, listen, I don't, that's not, that's not my preferred outcome because this affects my life because people are free to decide that because I'm white, I have to pay more for this. I'm not right for this. It's open season. And I don't want to exaggerate. I'm kind of being devil's advocate. But I think that everybody thinks their little encroachment on this principle is minor, and it is. But the sum total, the death by 1,000 cuts to our country, I think is really serious. We see it minor, and it is, but the sum total, the death by a thousand cuts to our country,

I think is really serious. We see it everywhere, and it adds up. So then the idea is that affirmative action has... I have brown children, by the way. I have brown children, for the record. Brown children. Okay. I'm getting out of jail free card.

So is the idea that... Also, that's not how that works, but... Is the idea then that affirmative action served its purpose, and you feel like we're past that necessity? Or you feel like it was never a necessity? Like not even back in Mad Men era? I think the ending of discrimination in the workplace and elsewhere was a necessity. I think that affirmative action...

Maybe wasn't the right way to go? And had marginal success. Yeah, it was marginally effective. And listen, I used to be for affirmative action when I was young. I know the story's boring now, but when I was in law school... I will say that when I go to a sushi bar, because I know you're Japanese, I don't see any white guys. It's true.

Would you want a white guy making your sushi? I don't know. Would you want a black guy doing your taxes? Would you want a bald guy cutting your hair? I want a black therapist. Because you're going to tell me it's okay. So when I was in law school, there's a law review, which is like

the honors kind of publication. To get on law review at Penn, you had to do a writing competition. Which is fair. And you just submit an essay. But this is how they did it. Every student's given a number.

So you don't put your name on the exam. You hand in your paper to the professors. The professor graded the papers. Then the professor sent the papers to the registrar's office who looked up your race and gave you extra points if you were black. So he's got a reason to be pissed. And this is what passed as fair. That even at the high level of an Ivy League institution,

they still did not expect people to be able to succeed based on the merits. And when does it stop? Well, maybe when you go before the judge. You say, well, you know, but your lawyer's black. There's no end to it. Here, just today in New York, they cut out but your lawyer's black. I mean, there's no end to it. Here, just today in New York,

they cut out the literacy tests for teachers. Right. And I think white people were failing. They were all failing badly. Everybody was. Only 60% of whites are passing and like 54% of blacks, something like that. They got rid of the test. They weren't happy with the outcome.

Forget about it. They didn't like the numbers, so now teachers don't have to know how to read. That's right. They're screaming about Betsy DeVos teachers don't have to know how to read. That's right. They're screaming about Betsy DeVos. She's going to kill us. She's going to kill us. But not having teachers who can pass.

And I actually downloaded the test today. It's like a high school senior test. Ought to have been able to pass it pretty easily. These are people with master's. Teachers have to have master's degree, I think. Not necessarily. They aren't required to on elementary or secondary. Or high school.

Okay, well, many of them have a master's degree, but at minimum, they have a regular degree, a bachelor's degree. If you can't pass this test with a bachelor's degree, I don't care what color you are,

you deserve not to pass it. Or if you got a degree without knowing how to read, you're a fucking genius. There's two ways of looking at it. But this is where diversity gets us. That's true.

But of course the counter argument to that being with your law school example that if somebody grew up with all the privileges that whiteness

allows you generally in society and then somebody grows up Awesome privileges by the way. I know. Some of the best.

And then somebody grows up without all those privileges but they both it's like the person without the privilege has to work harder to get to the same place. I agree with you, actually. I think that's like the argument, like why they take those things into account.

It's what I said to you before. Any human who can go before whatever the universe, say, listen, I got a B-plus average, not the A average, but, you know, I was working two jobs, and I came from a very poor neighborhood, whatever. So really, if you take that into account, I think my B plus is worth anybody's. Yeah, absolutely. Just don't have to do a 23 and me test to decide.

You should be able to make the case based on who you are and what your life is. Bill Cosby's kids, he's a trite example, does not need affirmative action, but he's going to get, my kids, by the way, are going to get affirmative action. My kids are getting, why should they get affirmative action? If affirmative action... My kids, by the way, are going to get affirmative action. My kids are going to... Why should they get affirmative action? If affirmative action is even still happening by the time your kids go to college... It will be. I want to hear Nick Griffin's thoughts.

We haven't heard from him. Well, look, I gave you my incredible ideas earlier, but... I want to hear more ideas. No, I don't know. I think that it's just... I don't know. Take your time, Nick. No, no, no. I just... I don't know. Take your time, Nick. No, no, no.

I just, I don't know. He has a career to worry about. He has to make sure he doesn't say anything wrong. I think in comedy, we sort of see a different side of it, too, because I think sometimes

because there is such a push for bookers to get a diverse lineup in some places that they end up advancing people who aren't quite ready yet. So we get girls who've been doing comedy for two or three years

who have TV spots, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can weaken the fabric of comedy if they're not ready for those TV spots. I'd argue it's a bad thing. Well, yeah. It's not a bad thing? She's saying it is a bad thing. Because you see it a lot, especially with women,

because there's this like, oh, you've got to have a woman on the show or whatever. And so a lot of the times a woman ends up on a show because they needed a woman. And then a lot of the times that woman is not as experienced as the male comedians who are also on the show. So then because of that, because of lack of experience. There's a perception that women aren't funny. So then people walk away from that show being like, no, the chick wasn't that funny. Right.

But it's like it's not necessarily that women aren't funny. It's that one woman wasn't funny, but somehow that one woman or that one black guy or that one Indian guy, whoever, suddenly has to represent the whole group. Now you sound like me.

And it creates a lot of resentment. No, no, I mean, that's the point, is that, you know, you're right. That's what I'm saying, like, yeah,

if you're funny, if you're funny, if you're as funny as the other people on the lineup, then you should definitely be on that lineup. If you're not,

you know, keep working. Can I just say, for the record, because not to get any anger, I'm a- We call this segment Backtrack with Noam Dorm.

My life is a picture book of diversity in every aspect. The people in my social life, the people in my love life, the people in my employees, my bands, everything. The people on the stage and the comedy seller.

And I managed to do that without ever having to try to take that into account. And I'm very proud of that. I think that's the way it should be. Anyway, that's all I want to say. I just think that when you hear more and more of these politicians, these are the people that are determining how we should apply all these diversity laws and stuff. And they're all so out of touch I just don't want somebody else telling me how to

live my life and how I need to do these things obviously I'm in a great position I'm a white guy your life is a mess it's a disaster who am I kidding I'm three pills away from jumping

so I'm only judging by Nick's act, which is a very... Your act, your shtick, is the depressed guy. Yeah. Right? And how close to that is reality?

Well, I don't know. It's about as close as anyone else's, I would imagine, yeah. So, you know, it's... Pretty goddamn close. Yeah, it's not a three-ring circus at the Nick Griffin studio apartment, let's put it that way. So Nick is an example of, despite his whiteness and...

Privilege. Privilege. Yeah, pretty privileged. You know, couldn't pull it off. Couldn't seem to make much of it. No, I mean, but that's the case with most of us in the comedy world. Yeah, comedians are depressed. Well, we're also depressed, and most of us don't hit the big time.

Yeah. Most of us don't grab the brass ring, you know? Yep. But I do think that a comic today, everything else being equal, and no one will argue that everything else is never equal, but in any case, I do think the white man has the hardest road right now in stand-up comedy for reasons enunciated

on this show. People do look for diversity. And there is simply a glut of white dudes. Well, there's still plenty of really funny white guys. There always will be. There always will be, and those guys are going to be fine. Be fine? I got a gun in my mouth.

There's way more unfunny white guys out there than there are unfunny women who are trying to make a comedy career, too. That's part of the reason why it's a numbers game. There's so many of them that there's a ton of shitty ones out there. There's a great amount of shitty ones out there. Also, I have to say, it'll work out

because in the end, you cannot impose diversity for diversity's sake. Correct. You can't legislate ethics. We've seen various people who got jobs, whatever it is, clearly because their diversity plays something, and they flop. Exactly. But comedy is not a, it's not sports. So it's not the best guy will eventually.

No, there's ratings. It's objective. It's not just that it's objective. Look, if you put me in a TV show and it was the right TV show, I would become a star. But you'd have to put me in that TV show. And then I would fill up Madison Square Garden and then people would call me a genius. I think we're also, you know. People call you a genius.

I'm thinking that just because you go into show business, you're allowed or you get a career just from wanting to be a part. That's what I thought. A lot of it's so much luck, regardless of who you are. I remember early on, I worked with someone who had done a lot of it like 10 times, and I was just starting. And I said, how do I get anywhere? And they go, just get funny. The rest, I mean, they get to a big city because the business is not against you.

The business wants funny people. The business wants to use the right people. But it's not necessarily going to happen. But you have to just get funny. Well, get funny. I think there's very few unfunny people that went along with it. Getting funny guarantees you a living. Of course it happens.

Getting funny guarantees you a living. But that's it. But that's it. By the way, did you read that book about Letterman that's coming out? No, it hasn't come out yet. April 11th. But you read the accounts of it? Yeah, yeah.

Oh, my God. It doesn't seem right to me. Who wrote it? You know what's like that? Jason Zinneman. You know that guy, right? Yeah, the New York Times guy. My experience with Letterman is it confined to the three or four words he said to me after my sets when I did the show. I can only say that it wasn't overwhelming warmth coming from him,

but I can't speak to whether or not he's the man portrayed in this book. I will say that Conan, when you do Conan, he can't... Effusive. Effusive. He'd sit down. Oh, I love having you. Thanks for coming back. You know we love having... Letterman comes over and he says, whatever, good to see you. I got the sense that

had I walked out the door and been hit by a taxi cab and someone said, hey, Letterman, that comic you just had, he was just killed. My sense is Letterman would not be heartbroken.

Conan might shed a tear. I think Conan would be very upset. Now, that's just my sense and I could be wrong. That's more an indication of his limitations than... Who's limitations? One from him. He's a New York guy.

Obviously, he's got some problems. He's a troubled dude. That said, he's the best that ever did that. That ever, I think, did late night. Johnny Carson was a dark personality. But, you know, as a boss, I don't know if you feel this way,

it's just so easy to criticize the boss with the pressures on him. The name on the marquee. Yeah, and having to be on all the time. And it's just everything you do, if you have a bad day, if you say it doesn't come out right, it's magnified. And then, of course, people have a chip on their shoulder about you or disgruntled in some way, get the megaphone of a journalist who can expand that into any percentage of his take on you that he wants.

You're talking, of course, about the Lugan Press. The Lugan Press, what's that? That's what the alt-right calls the press. It's German for lying press. Oh, I never, I don't, Dan. It's also what Hitler calls the press. Dan is a regular on the alt-right websites. I monitor the alt-right. I want to know what's going on. If it's time to leave the country, I want. It's also what Hitler called the pressure. Dan is a regular on the alt-right websites. I monitor the alt-right.

I want to know what's going on. If it's time to leave the country, I want to advance notice. Go ahead, Noah. So I just somehow, not knowing Letterman, I just feel like this is just, he can't be that bad. No, that's possible. I can only tell you again, he's not an overwhelmingly warm character from my experience. All right. Limited though it might be.

Beyond that, the people that work for him that I know. Can you imagine the tell-all book about you, Dan Adler, and if you were to become famous? I mean, you know, it would be harsh. I don't think anybody's got a bad word to say about me. But that's because I haven't made it big. Exactly. You know, oh, everybody loves the loser.

The haters come out of the woodwork. But when all of a sudden you're a big shot. As soon as you get success. Now, Noam, the truth is, Noam, you know, his staff here, I don't hear bad things said about Noam, and he's the name on the marquee. He's the big guy.

But if somebody wanted to write a book about me and I were famous, they would find, there are people out there who will say bad things. Otherwise, you can't sell the book. The waitress who was here for three weeks. Exactly. There's always someone. No matter who you are.

But that's how you know that you're successful if the people are saying bad things about you. Well, I don't know about that, but I've had disgruntled employees. Not only that,

I've had disgruntled employees who like 10 years later called me up on some 12-step program to apologize, you know, in tears, you know,

who realized that it was really them. I believe it was the great Bernie Brillstein that said, you're no one if no one wants you dead or something like that it was really them. I believe it was the great Bernie Brillstein that said, you're no one if no one wants you dead or something like that. That's right. You're nobody unless somebody wants you dead. And I think there's a good deal of truth to that.

I hope somebody comes... Eddie Brill kind of came to Letterman's defense, and I hope other people do come to Letterman's. In the paper recently? On Facebook, I think. On Facebook, he definitely was defending him. I've known people that have worked for him, and nobody describes him as a horrible person.

No. Eddie speaks very, very highly of him. Tough, you know? It's tough to be David Letterman. It's tough. I tell Esty sometimes. Biggest thing in the world for about 10, 15 years. I mean, he was the biggest.

It's a little bit of a... It was a household name, yeah. Biggest thing in TV. Just to be living as... Failing, in a sense. You're number two. You're number three. Day in, day out.

Like that much, too. That takes a toll on a guy. You might get a little short-tempered, a little brittle, because you're fucking... I don't think he was operating with a full... He has some trouble. He likes to be by himself. He doesn't really like the spotlight.

He's a little bit of a hermit. Like, that kind of stuff is very incongruous with what he was doing, you know? What'd you say? Is that Letterman or me? No, Letterman, Letterman, not you. So I felt bad for Letterman. Anyway, we're about out of time.

Nick is one of the greats. I want to thank you, Nick. Thank you. Thanks for having me. He is one of the funniest comics we have, and his point of view is a unique one. How many Letterman spots? 11. 11 for having me. He is one of the funniest comics we have, and his point of view is a unique one. How many Letterman spots? 11.

11 Letterman spots. Is that the most? No, God, no. Jake Johansson had something like 30 or so. He makes suicidal thoughts funny. By the way, you can hear me. This is interesting, though. I told you about ResistanceRadio.com.

ResistanceRadio.com. I did a promo for The Man in the High Castle, which is a Amazon show about The Man in the High Castle. It's fine. They made me watch it because I did the promo. It's a good show. But I did a promo where I, it's a promo where I was this DJ in the neutral

zone of the, because it's a show about when the Nazis and the Japanese won World War II. So America is, half of America is ruled by Nazis and half of America the Nazis and the Japanese won World War II. So America's, half of America's ruled by Nazis and half of America's ruled by the Japanese. And then there's like a neutral zone in the middle. So I'm like a DJ in the neutral zone talking about, you know, resisting. Me and two

other people. So you can hear that on resistance radio dot com. You might enjoy it. Even if you're not a fan of the man in the high castle. It got a little bit of it went a little bit viral because a lot of Trump people assumed that Resistance Radio was an anti-Trump radio station. Hilarious. And so

we got a lot of press about that, but anyway. We didn't get to talk about the Rachel Maddow debacle, which is the best thing ever. Anyway, I'll talk about it in the next show. We can talk about it on the next show. We would like to thank Rebecca. I say this like I'm the next show. We can talk about it on the next show. We would like to thank Rebecca. I say this like I'm the

host. There's really no power structure here. Noam, it's Noam's show. It's a little loose. Sometimes I just take it. Rebecca Trent, everybody from the Creek and the Cave. Thank you. Come to the Creek Awards on April 30th. The old Howard. I'm sorry. I spoke over it. Come to the Creek Awards on April 30th.

The old Howard Stern. They used to clap. over it. Oh, come to the Creek Awards on April 30th. The old Howard Stern. They used to clap. You remember that? And if you are a transgendered female or an amputee. If you're anything. We're in general submission. So white guys are now welcome to submit until April 8th. Center Black Comedy Festival.

Yippee. Do you know that you can't say expectant mother anymore? Why not? What do you have to say? You have to say expectant person because you don't know what the human that's pregnant identifies with. Oh, for Christ's sake. It's too confusing. It makes sense to me.

Scratch the... What do you mean you can't say? You read one article or one blog saying you shouldn't say it? It doesn't mean you can't say it. Well, no. You can say it. It was a British medical journal. No, it's getting some traction.

I was at a firing range in Pennsylvania and they had pregnant persons on the signs now. Good for you. Defending the Second Amendment. We're just becoming seahorses, that's all. And actually, on that issue, I question myself whether or not I'm being unreasonable

because, you know, I try to put myself in the position of somebody who was transgender. It's kind of nice that society is learning to recognize that this exists, but it does seem at some point to be. The bathroom conversation is super dumb, though. It seems to go beyond what even a transgender person

would even care about. Correct. I always just try to find those people, ask them how they want care about. Correct. In which case, you know. That's why I always just try to find those people, ask them how they want it, and then I'm like, okay, cool. Who was your name again? Alison Klemp. Alison Klemp. The Klemp is obviously the German side of the family.

Yes. And your mother, of course, is Japanese American. Half Japanese. My mother is Japanese and German, and then the rest is like a hodgepodge of German and other white. So you're only a quarter Japanese. Half Japanese. My mother's Japanese and German and then the rest is like a hodgepodge of German and other white. Is he only a quarter Japanese? Quarter Japanese. And yet, it manifests itself in rather striking fashion.

You're a pretty little half Mexican. Gracias. Are you going to try to pick her up? No, I'm not going to do any such thing. Believe me, he qualifies for diversity at least three different ways. Good night, everybody.