The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Nico Perrino, Ryan Reiss, and Andrew Schulz

Episode Date: October 20, 2017

Nico is the director of communications at the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education and host of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast. Originally from the Chicagoland area, Nico lives and works in New York City. Ryan Reiss and Andrew Schulz are both New York City-based stand-up comedians. They can be seen regularly performing at the Comedy Cellar.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. We're here, thank goodness, Dan Natterman is back from a trip to Europe. We have with us... It's Nico. I can introduce myself. Go ahead, Nico. Yeah, I'm Director of Communications

with the Foundation for Individual Rights and Education, and we do civil liberties on college campus. And I'm also the host of So To Speak, the free speech podcast. I found it. Nico Perino is the Director of Communications at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Education. He just said that.

Originally from the Chicago area, he lives and works in New York City, and he works with Greg Lukianoff, who's been on this show, who is a... Wasn't that the guy that was the diver from the Olympics? No, that's Greg Lukianoff. And they do

very, very important work defending our free speech all over the country. We're busy now. I was about to say, we first made contact with them when this was an issue that everybody poo-pooed.

People were telling me I'm crazy. And now it's basically the issue. So that's very much to Greg's credit, I think. Anyway, and Ryan Reese, who is a regular working at the Comedy Cellar. He also works on Seth Meyers' show. Seth Meyers' show, that's right.

You write and perform? I have been a contributing monologue joke writer, and I'm the warm-up comedian for Daily and Comedy Cellar Comedian. It should be mentioned that Ryan mainly emcees here at the Comedy Cellar, a very important component of the Comedy Cellar. A little known fact, Dan Natterman's favorite emcee. I've been told Dan Natterman will not take the stage unless... I will take the stage with some reluctance

if Ryan is not performing. I think I've seen you here before, Ryan. Oh, that's good. So before we get to that, we want to address the Harvey Weinstein thing. I thought you wanted to ask me about Paris. Well, Ellie has tables to wait on. So we have one of our, I was going to say one of our prettiest waitresses.

I don't know, can you say that, Dan? Oh, that's so nice. You're not a very good feminist, Ellie. But anyways, one of our best, One of our most efficient waitresses. And we just, we told her at random and I and I, and the reason, actually not at random because one time I said something to her. I really don't remember what it was.

And I think maybe, maybe it was my imagination but I thought she might have thought that I had said something inappropriate. Did that happen? No, I really don't think so. You don't think so? No. But then again, no, like I don't think you so. You don't think so? No. But then again, no, like, I don't think you did. I didn't take it like that. But I know there are women

out there that do take a lot of things like that serious. And I don't know. I'd have to say it depends on who's saying it. What did he say? I feel like Brad Pitt could say whatever he wants. Or George Clooney. You know what I mean? Is George Clooney a little bit old for you? It's George Clooney.

It doesn't matter. I don't think I said anything inappropriate. Also, we are in a restaurant business. I think the rules are a little more lax in terms of what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. These are waitresses. They're here to

serve us. They're here to augment their income while oftentimes No. I wasn't going to say that. They're here to augment their income while oftentimes pursuing other things. It's not like you hold their dreams in your hands. The views of Dan Natterman do not necessarily represent the comedy seller or the comedy seller. That's what I always say.

The views of the host of the show do not necessarily represent the views of the host of the show. Is that not the case? I mean, it's not... You know, worst comes to worst, she goes to another waitressing job. Can I say a few things? First of all, I'm happy that no one's, I'm very, very worried about this now.

We did come close to having a harassment suit here one time with a waiter. Were you here at that time? No. A waiter, a gay waiter who was being kind of harassed by the kitchen. And we dodged a bullet on that one. He was, you know was definitely looking to sue. And like a lot of the stories you hear, he refused to follow any of the procedures

that we responsibly lay out in terms of how you're supposed to handle a situation where somebody speaks inappropriately to you, whatever it is. So we should never think that people don't smell money and look for it. However, there is... But I do think there's people that are ultra sensitive

to things like that. Yeah. Listen, I think it's disgusting. I'm always shocked. Like, I've been in a position of kind of power for all my adult life. Yes. The powerful man you are. No, no. I'm always shocked. I've been in a position of kind of power for all my adult life. Yes. The powerful man you are.

No, no. I had them all over the world. I'm like the Harvey, was it Waltz? You're a boy. A lot of people. Let me tell you something. And it never occurred to me that that would be the way to go about it. It's like you don't need to be vulgar.

You don't need to be aggressive. Just be a gentleman. It works pretty well, I think. So I don't understand that. However, the only question I have about all this, and it's kind of what you're touching on, is that they're lumping in women who complain. Like, tell the story that you told about a boss you had one time.

I was 19. I was working at an insurance company, and he would flirt with me, but he would try to make it still seem very professional. But then again, I was 19 and I was so young. And one time he would like, just try to help me out on the computer, but he like touched my hand and it wasn't like, Oh, I'm sorry. It was like very slow, exactly. I've seen that video. So what did you do? I just moved my hand and I scooped back. And what were the consequences?

Any consequences to you? No. No. I'm fine. So I always try to think, how would I react to it if it happened to my daughter? If some guy did that to her or even on a date tried to make out with her and she said, get off me. I think, all right, sweetie, that's that's that's just that's life.

And but if somebody actually was physical with her or harassed her or threatened to fire her or, you know, cross the line from a kind of gross out experience to a traumatic experience, however you want to define traumatic experience. That's when I think we need to kick in with a very, very serious look at things. And I'm afraid that we have now mixed everything together because as you know, and as you said, like one man's come on is totally appropriate if the girl was interested in it,

but the exact same behavior, if the girl wasn't interested in it, now all of a sudden you're inappropriate, you know? So that's a tough situation to be in. Well, what do you do? Because I'm curious, because you are a boss and you employ comedians. How does the speech thing apply to comedians in terms

of their relationship to your wait staff? It worries me. If I stepped out of line and did something inappropriate with a waitress, would you be liable? Well, shut up, Ryan. What the fuck is the matter with you? Catch me my last night here. I think if she complained about it and then Noam kept using you, there might be some liability there.

The truth is... Because we're independent contractors. The truth is nobody really knows the answer to that question. That's one of the things that nobody can really tell you. Somebody could create a legal theory, a hostile work environment, whatever it is. But, you know, it's the kind of thing which seldom gets even to trial because they sue and then hope you settle, you know? Eliane, have you found the comedians

in general respectful of you in that regard? Yes. You see, we come off very... And have you not seen my face, too? I'm like, I'll roll my eyes if you get away from me. Okay, I never got the eye roll. Oh, no, I heard you loud and clear. I got you. Well, you know, comedians

were very on stage, were oftentimes aggressive and disgusting and perverted, but I think off stage were generally gentlemanly, often timid. Some of us are real players, but most of us are fairly awkward. Some employees

can be very, very aggressive towards their superiors. I mean, superiors are people who have managerial control over them. It's not a one-way street at all. I mean, superiors are people who have managerial control over them. It's not a one-way street at all. I mean, I'm not trying to brag or anything. I don't mean it that way. But I mean, I've had waitresses, especially when I was younger,

come on very, very, very strong to me. Very strong, you know. And I even had one situation once where a waitress wanted to borrow $1,000. It's a waitress I've been, you've been flirtatious with over the years. And I got the feeling as she was wanting to borrow the $1,000 that she was kind of signaling that she was ready to fool around. Oh, wow. And I smartly, I gave her the $1,000 and did not fool around with her

because I recognized that those two things really should mix. This sounds like something I once told a judge. She was coming on to me and she just happened to ask to borrow $1,000 on 42nd Street. And I don't know to this day whether, because we'd always, for years, been kind of flirtatious. I don't know what the reality of that situation was, but I could see somebody falling into that honeypot, you know, and really find themselves in big trouble. And now all of a sudden, you made her proud.

You gave her $1,000 to fool around with you. It could be presented that way. So it's very tough. But I'll tell you what my conclusion about all this is, and I'll let you, is that people are all sheep. Except for the most extreme situations,

most empathy is false. And they follow it along blindly. And the reason I say that is because, for instance, with Roman Polanski, there was nothing unknown at all about the Roman Polanski charm molestation or rape, whatever you want to call it, and there was multiple victims.

And this was not ancient history. This was just only a few years ago. And the Academy gave him a standing ovation. And they all wanted him to be allowed back in the country. And Meryl Streep and all of them were giving him. And then you have arguably maybe not even as bad a fact pattern with Harvey Weinstein. Because after all, these were adults or whatever it is. And they're reacting with real tears and convulsing and emotional

you know, they emotionally triggered why? What's it because somebody told them all of a sudden no, this is how you're supposed to feel about this and now all the sheep feel that way about it, they could not arrive at that feeling on their own

by hearing about Roman Polanski. They needed it to come down from above for them to realize how awful this was. And that's a big defect in human nature. I don't see any other explanation for it. I think a lot of other people might have been involved in this situation, or at least complicit in it. And as a result, they're just trying to cut off

the arm before it spreads. You understand my point, though? Why wasn't this obvious when it happened six years ago with Roman Polanski? I'm sure there's probably plenty of people in Hollywood that are disgusted with Roman Polanski as well. But the same people are now outraged at Harvey Weinstein

were championing Roman Polanski. Some people are in that category. Are they going to kick him out of the academy now? But it takes a certain amount of courage to be the first person to speak out about, especially someone in a position of power like Harvey Weinstein. Not everyone wants to be that person. You sit down.

Another bum rap, I think, is what are these people who knew about it? What were they supposed to do? I know things. I've had a situation where a waitress came to me and claimed that a comedian, more than once actually, that a comedian did something really inappropriate to her. Now, am I supposed to go public with that? What exactly is somebody who hears about this kind of thing supposed to do if the victim themselves will not take the first step and come forward? Well, I agree with you.

The only thing that maybe somebody could do in this situation, in the Harvey Weinstein situation, which is probably unrealistic to ask anyone to do, is to say, I'm not going to work with this pig. Well, I think that would be asking a lot. I think Angelina Jolie did that. I think Angelina Jolie did do that. Brad Pitt threatened to punch him in the nose.

There was a guy, a writer, the guy that wrote the movie Beautiful Girls. Remember that movie, Beautiful Girls? No. It was a shitty movie, but the guy that wrote it. He wrote that Facebook screed? He wrote a whole long, I don't know if it was on Facebook or wherever. Everybody knew, everybody fucking knew.

Everybody knew, but we were on the gravy train and we were having fun. And Harvey was great for the business, and he was great for our careers. And so we just kind of went along with him for that reason. I forgot the guy's name. Okay, but this is exactly my point, too. What did they know? Did they know that he came on strong?

Did they know he physically raped somebody? Well, his company had that contract with him where every time he would get an allegation put against him, he'd have to pay a million dollar fine. So apparently, they knew. Well, apparently they knew that he would might get sued for sexual harassment. But that doesn't mean they knew he was

a criminal. Let's say hypothetically, they knew that he masturbated in front of women without their permission, or maybe he grabbed an ass or a breast. Is it okay if you stop in the middle and say, this is okay, right? What, the masturbation? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've all... Well, the real victim was the plant.

The plant had no choice in that masturbation. Didn't Dove Davidoff tell us a masturbating in a plant story just two weeks ago? I don't know. Go ahead. I found that to be odd. What? The plant. As a choice of receptacles, it just seemed an odd choice.

But I guess now that I think of it. Maybe it was a pussy wheel. You know. Did you see it? But anyway, the point is, if you knew that, the question is, what realistically should somebody do in that situation? Just say, I'm not going to work with this person when they're riding high on a great career and everybody else is going along with it as well? You're going to be the one person that says, I'm not working with you?

I mean, maybe ideally, yes, but I think that's asking an awful lot. I was that one person, and that's why Harvey never worked with me. No one's upset. I think that one person and that's why Harvey never worked with me. No one's upset. I think, I don't know, I think we have a certain allowance for guys to be

what we would call creeps. And that's not the same thing as necessarily as a... That's another level. Like, I mean... An assault or a rape.

Yeah, I kind of feel bad because even now, like, I feel like a lot of women feel like that's what guys do and I'm like, I can't even, like, that's an extreme, like, I mean, that's like what you see homeless dudes do. And I'm like, I can't even. That's an extreme.

That's what you see homeless dudes do on the subway. That is another level of. Well, did you hear the interview on Megyn Kelly with this blonde woman who was on, I think she was on Fox. Yeah, she was a former. It was a potted plant episode. She was the former.

That was a potted plant. She is a Fox anchor. It's very interesting because she tells a story what really seems to be a woman who was enthralled by this charming powerful man for a while he meets her he's talking about a presidential history i love presidential history he made me feel so good about myself he made me feel smart he says hey wanted to come meet at my restaurant she went with him to his restaurant now she can say that was a

platonic decision but it sounds a little bit like the mating dance, you know? And then she goes to the restaurant, and then he says, have you seen the downstairs? We have a big kitchen downstairs. And she goes downstairs with him. And all of this sounds to me like she was enjoying the encounter. But then, and this is, I guess, his sickness, he turned on a dime and immediately attacked her, like tried to kiss her. And then when she recoiled, he says, okay, just stand there and be quiet. And pulls out his dick and starts jerking off.

Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. So that's not a normal guy. Like clearly that's not a normal guy. He also told the staff to leave the kitchen and block the doorway. There were two Mexican guys where he says. That's got to be assault if you lock the door or something, right? Kidnapping, I think is what it is.

Yeah, like you're holding her hot stick. Well, when she said she was assaulted in the kitchen, they thought it was with, you know, like they put salt because it's in the kitchen. But anyway. That's the kind of professional comedy we offer here. All right, Ellie, do you have any other, have you ever had a friend of yours who,

not here, of course, who, right? No. No. I really, I really don't know. You mean he? No, nothing like that. Nothing to that extreme. I've heard of a lot of stories of that.

Not, like, not within my circle at all. And my girlfriends are bartenders at the best nightclubs here in New York. And I haven't. That's, that's nice to hear. Right? I, one thing I will say about this is, you know, this is a lesson for fathers. friends are bartenders at the best nightclubs here in New York. That's nice to hear, right? One thing I will say about this is this is a lesson for fathers, I think, because you've got to tell your daughters, I would think,

not to blame the victim in any way, shape, or form, but if I had a daughter, I would say, look, honey, sweetheart, baby. They're all trying to stick it in. I wouldn't use that terminology. But I would say, you know, you've got to understand, don't trust a one of them, and especially not Nico.

Yeah, you can't trust a man. How about Ryan Hamilton? Ryan Hamilton. But I can't make an exception for Ryan Hamilton because I can't say unless it's a Mormon saint that, you know, I have to just make a blanket statement to my daughter if I had one. Believe me, Ryan's trying to stick it in somewhere, too. Don't trust a single one heterosexual male ever. You cannot go wrong assuming they're all trying to stick it in.

Am I right, Ellie? I mean, is that a good rule of thumb? I agree, yes. Yes, you're right. And act accordingly. And it can only help you. The woman's lot in life is that sometimes she wants them to stick it in. And sometimes she thinks she does, but she's not sure.

And sometimes that decision might change like at the spur of the moment. Right? Maybe. Oh, boy. Like it's hard, you know. So you're saying that some of these women, if Harvey had just been a little less beastly, he might have been successful with them. I think if Harvey was willing to wait for the second or third date, with many of them, he would have been able to convert this into a pleasant experience all around.

Or maybe an under five or a walk-on or something. Come on. I think maybe he got off on the humiliating of them or something like that. Or he's just that impatient. Yeah, it sounds like he's very impatient. So he just wants to take advantage. And since he has so much power, he just wants it so fast. Or he'll go on to the next one.

Now, is this wrong? Now, he's like in his 60s, right? He's 65, I believe, now. But this was in his heyday in his 40s. But it's continued until recently now. And he's married. Yeah, he was. She left him.

Yeah, she left him. She took off. But still married. Yeah, I think. And he's married. Yeah, he was. She left him. Yeah, she left him. She took off. We're still married. But yeah, she left him. But when I see a man in their late 50s, early 60s with such a libido that they're beating off, I'm like, shit, there is something impressive to me about that. I can't deny it. The Potterplan episode.

I'm not sure the Potterplan episode was of recent vintage. Why did I say something wrong? I'm just saying it's a matter of just physical prowess. It's impressive. I'm not sure anything could get me to that level at 60 years old. I don't know when the potted plant incident, or most of these incidents I do think happened, in Harvey's heyday back in the 90s, early 2000s,

back when Miramax was much more of a juggernaut than it is today. And that's part of the reason why this is all coming out now because he's the man that does not have the power that he used to have. But whether or not he can still bust a nut like he used to... Four years ago was the last one. That was the New York City one. With the tape.

The tape was four years ago. I'm hearing... The tape. The tape. That was with the Italian model. Okay, that was more recent. Well, I'm here. I'm having two. The tape. The tape. The one who recorded the tape was four years ago. Oh, that was with the Italian model. Okay, that was more recent. You touched my breast.

Yeah, and I just don't know legally that a prosecutor can do much with that tape. Have you heard the tape? London. They can do it in London, which is where some of the assaults happened, and there's no statute of limitations. No, forget the statute of limitations. If a woman says, you touched my breast, and the man says, I'm sorry, is that enough? Is that a crime?

Because the man could have just said, look, you were looking at me a certain way. We were holding hands. I thought it was okay. The mens rea, which is a legal term meaning the criminal intention, might not have been there in that. Just, I don't know. I'm not sure. I agree. I found that tape.

I'm like, you know, first of all, he does acknowledge, like, touching her breast. But, of course, there's many scenarios where you could touch somebody's breast. But he doesn't. He's just kind of creepy. But he's not coming on too strong to her. And don't forget, she knows that she's recording him. So you always feel like in a certain way it's kind of set up. But didn't Rose McGowan actually say that he raped her?

No, no. The other stories are way worse. I'm just talking about that one recording. I can see why they didn't prosecute her. Because a lot of people are saying they should have prosecuted and this is why women don't come forward, which I certainly understand why women don't come forward. But in this case, I just don't see there was much for a prosecutor

to work with, although I'm not a criminal attorney. So I don't know for was much for a prosecutor to work with, although I'm not a criminal attorney. So I don't know for sure. The district attorney then got a donation of $10,000 from Harvey Weinstein's attorney right after. That doesn't look good. That sounds like very Trump-Russia collusion. Now, here's a man, Mr. Andrews. Can I say one more thing?

And then we'll let it go. So last, like three weeks ago, we had a woman walk off this podcast. And then also Corinne and the guys we fuck girls got mad because I had the nerve to say, listen, male sexuality and female sexuality are different, and that's innate. And I gave a million examples why. And they said, no, it's all societal. Men are

exactly the same as women. Women want to have sex just as often and in the same way. And the only reason that women don't go to prostitutes all the time and go on credits is because society tells them, blah, blah, blah blah blah. So, I thought that I don't believe that but presuming that's true for the sake of argument because this is I think the feminist party line is that men and men and male and female sexuality is... I don't know if that's a feminist party line but it is a point of view.

From every feminist person we've had on here. That would be a fun feminist party. How do they explain this one-way street of men all over the world sexually harassing women? And very few instances in the other way. Well, I agree with you, by the way. I agree with you. But oftentimes if a woman sexually harasses a man, you're not going to hear about it because we don't mind that much. We're not as threatened by it. I mean, even in my case, on more than one occasion, I was at the steam room at Equinox gym, and a man started masturbating in the gym.

We're the only two in the steam room, rather. And I just walked out, and I don't consider it a big deal. I'm not traumatized by it, and I don't consider it a big deal. But were I a woman, I might have thought it was a big deal. When it happens to men, we're less likely to consider it a big deal. But were I a woman, I might have thought it was a big deal. When it happens to men, we're less likely to consider it a big deal. You're less likely to hear about it. I'm saying, is there a woman out there somewhere who would take me downstairs, show me

the kitchen, try to kiss me, and when I wouldn't kiss her, just stay there and be quiet and start masturbating into the plant? No, there would not be. Does that woman exist? But there are women who have been very... But there are women that are aggressive to the point that if the situation were reversed, it might be considered sexual harassment.

Yes, yes, yes. And the man doesn't complain about it. But I'm talking about just this... But absolutely. It's hard to imagine a woman just masturbating into a potted plant. It is not hard to imagine. The base vulgar drive to ejaculate. This is just a very male thing.

I'm not proud of it, but I just think it's ridiculous to think women operate in the same way. Look at her. She's an angel. How could you even think that about somebody like that? Kelly, any thoughts about that? About your story that you've seen somebody...

Well, if you'd like to... And the fact that you didn't think anything of it as he was doing it, I would have ran out of there. Because you're a... I did run out of there, and my main concern was his... But you walked out,

and right now you're saying that it wasn't a big thing for you. I didn't consider it a big deal, except for the fact that I love my steam room time, and he fucked it up. Other than that, I really don't consider... It was not traumatizing. To be honest, I really don't consider it was not traumatizing.

To be honest, I was flattered. I was in my 30s. I look good. Hasn't happened recently. Hey, you know what they say? It's when they stop jerking off in the steam room that it's a problem. But no, I was flattered. I'll be honest with you.

I mean, yeah, I walked out. I didn't want to see it. I didn't want to be there for it. But I'm a guy. I didn't consider it that big a deal. I really didn't. I think it's disgusting, Dan. It is disgusting, but would you have been traumatized? Would you have

cried about it? No. A woman might have, and rightly so, because the power dynamic and the potential threat is much... Women are in fear of being physically overpowered. I was not in fear of being physically overpowered. You should have been. Ellie could probably handle that guy better than you could have.

I didn't feel that that guy was a physical threat. Especially not in the steam room where everybody's naked and slippery. Did you see that scene in that movie Eastern Promises where the two guys... Oh, yeah. That's one of the best fight scenes ever. Did you see that, Dan?

Is that a steam room fight scene? Yeah, you'll like that. That's right up your alley. That's right up my alley. Vito Mortensen you see that, Dan? Is that a steam room fight scene? Yeah, you'll like that. That's right up your alley. That's right up my alley. Vito Mortensen. All right, Ellie. Thank you, Ellie. You're a good sport.

I wasn't that much of a help. No, you were great. You were great. Ellie is gorgeous. And if Ellie hasn't been harassed, then maybe the situation is not as... Well, this is horrible. No, I'm going to get shit for this.

But maybe it's bad, but maybe it's not as bad as it could be. Is that horrible to say? Ellie doesn't get much opportunity because she keeps to herself a little bit. Is that horrible to say? I keep a lot to myself. A guy at the bar says it's horrible to say. It may well be. He's just showing off.

Thank you, guys. I've got to go back to work. But maybe Ellie's doing something to thwart it that could be instructive to our listeners, our female listeners. Again, not blaming the victim, but if there are techniques and tips that might be... If I feel uncomfortable in a situation, I definitely say something. Absolutely, I don't stay quiet. That's what you should have done in the steam room, Dan.

Yeah. I would have been like what the fuck is wrong with you you need to stop doing that is my phone Ellie go ahead Ellie has customers waiting for her Ellie you're very nice of you to stop by

Ellie alright careful guys the mic is live alright so Nico let's talk about free speech now yeah right after Harvey Weinstein

nothing I'd rather do well listen we had on the other show we had Amy Wax on alright last week yeah

are you familiar with her yeah University of Pennsylvania professor oh she was here got in a bit of a kerfuffle herself after writing an op-ed I would have liked to have talked to her

I was in Paris and she she wrote a op-ed? I would have liked to have talked to her. I was in Paris. And she wrote a... Op-ed. An op-ed essentially saying that bourgeois, I can never pronounce it, bourgeois values were the backbone of American success, and she defined those as working hard,

holding off having children until you were married and had means, school, these kind of like really mundane things. And she said that essentially that these are Western values and Western culture is the... She said it was a form of exceptionalism, like these values are superior to other values. These are superior values in terms of success in the modern world, and she

I think this was in the article, or maybe it was one of their answers, and one of the illustrations is the migration of peoples in the world is mostly from non-Western countries to Western countries. And I would add that if you value things like civil rights, free speech, rule of law, anti-corruption, private property, you name it,

by and large, these exist in Western culture only, with the slight exception being the cultures that we imposed it on, like Japan or Korea, as opposed to North Korea or China, you know, where we put... So she was then called a white supremacist. Yep. And I was outraged by this. Now, that's a long introduction. What do you want to say about it? At University of Pennsylvania, a group of students protested this, called in some cases

for her firing, and then her colleagues at the law school sort of ganged up on her. Ganged up maybe isn't the right word. 50% of the professors signed a letter criticizing her. Yeah. Well, not just criticizing. If you look at the letter, at the end of the letter, they sort of say, come to us students if you're concerned about what she said. And there's this suggestion that she might get punished if a preponderance of students, for example, come to them and complain. And this is something we see happen on campuses across the country. We hear from faculty all the time who live in fear of a stray remark in class, of saying something wrong in their scholarship, and losing their jobs. These are people with mortgages. These are people with families.

And you'd think, as a tenured professor, that your job is safe, that you have nothing to worry about. But we do see faculty members not get promotions, not get published, sort of ostracized within their faculty for going out on a limb. And we've seen this in a number of cases. And even with journal articles that they're writing right now, journals are revoking the articles, pulling them down from their websites. There was one recently. The case for colonialism. A professor made the case that colonialism was a net plus for the countries that were. And they took down the article.

That's a joke I have. We have. Andrew Schultz has said that. Andrew Schultz, who is a guy. Very pro-colonial. You look at a guy like that and you'd say to yourself, well, if anybody is being sexually aggressive and inappropriate, it would be Andrew Schultz. He's a very frat boy looking. But this is not who he is at all.

If McCarthyism could hold a candle, like I don't know the details of the McCarthy era, but I wonder if that era could hold a candle to the discrimination based on political points of view that's going on today well it's a bit different because what was what do you think was let was was be more of an obstacle to be a communist trying to get a in to be successful in movie business in the 50s or an arch conservative in 2017 well it's interesting you ask this question because there's a faculty member at sarah lawrence college which up north of here in Manhattan, who's done studies on the ratio of liberal to conservative faculty in academia. In the 90s, it was, you know, for every two liberals you had, you had one conservative. And now it's, I think, seven to one, seven liberals for every conservative. And in New England, it's even worse. It's 26 liberals to every one conservative.

He said, you know, he's a conservative himself. He said, until I got tenure, I felt afraid to speak up during faculty meetings. I couldn't find mentorship. I couldn't write what I wanted to write. And then once he got tenure, the floodgates opened, of course. But it's really difficult. You're creating a sort of orthodoxy within academia by preventing faculty from just being candid and speaking their minds and having these sorts of debates. We always say, you know, if you want to be a social justice university, put that in your handbook. Be upfront with faculty about that. But if you want to be an

actual place for study and learning, you need to allow for divergent viewpoints, you know, across political lines or ideological lines. It doesn't even need to allow for divergent viewpoints. You know, across political lines or ideological lines. It doesn't even need to be political. So what do we do? And the comedians, of course, are all concerned about this because they could all find themselves... We made a documentary about it. I don't know that we're...

I mean, speaking as a comedian, I don't think we're concerned about it. I think in every era, there's certain subjects and certain points of view you probably don't want to discuss on stage. Yeah, well, if you're playing colleges, you've got to watch what you're signing. I don't like it one bit. I feel like audiences are scared to co-sign a joke that would have right-leaning values.

And those are the jokes that we should be talking about right now because comedy should always push against the norm, right? When I was growing up, Chris Rock said Hillary should be the first one on her knees sucking his dick. Would you even think about saying that joke now? Could you say that on it? Oh, think about it.

But you know what I'm saying? We should always push against the status quo. That's what the great comics, at least when I was growing up, did. And I feel it, especially with Trump. I feel if there's any pro-Trump joke, even if it's for comedic value, you're just up there trying to joke around. There's this sense like, if I laugh at that, they might think I'm part of it. I'm a witch. I'm a communist. I'm a racist, whatever it is now.

And it's really a shame. Wasn't it Carlin who said it's a duty of a comedian, a duty, to go up to the line and deliberately cross it? But that's when colleges are more open to free speech and these comedians, well actually Carlin went to the colleges to develop his new act because he knew he could go there and take chances. Well colleges were

a bit different then. That's the time of the Berkeley Free Speech Movement, the fallout from that. But I interviewed Kelly Carlin, Rain Pryor, and Kitty Bruce all together. Their fathers of course being George Carlin, Richard Pryor, and Lenny Bruce, all of them dealt with censorship during their career. I mean, that seven dirty words Supreme Court case was George Carlin's bit. Richard Pryor lost his TV show because he was too edgy for NBC. And then, of course, Lenny Bruce, Kitty Bruce, his daughter, will tell you that he died because of censorship

because the government punished him for his bit over here in Greenwich Village. He was arrested. He couldn't get gigs anywhere he was bankrupt and died of an overdose. These kids are all going to grow up to be influential and judges and whatever

it is and there's a real risk that they're going to change the jurisprudence. I mean, the ACLU, to me, already seems to be buckling. Like, let's take this case we talked about. Trump said that people who have religious objections to providing birth control now are going to be exempt from the requirement to provide birth control. Now, the ACLU immediately attacked Trump. Now, I couldn't care less. Like, I have no problems with birth control. I'd like everybody to have birth control. Now the ACLU immediately attacked attacked Trump. Now I couldn't care less like I have no problems with birth control. I'd like everybody to have

birth control. But I don't know what this makes me but I say to myself you know if I'm a nun and I truly feel that now the state is compelling me to do something that I feel is violating my religion well that kind of is a First Amendment issue, isn't it? Like, before we start attacking it as a war on women, like, wait, wasn't this something we used to care about? Like, if I say, if North Korea attacks and we have to go defend ourselves and they draft me and I say, listen, it's against my religion to kill people, they will let me stay home. I don't have to go defend my country, right?

We mentioned, we'll recognize, but if you want to say, but I don't want to give out birth control, now you're some sort of racist. But you won't get punished for saying that. You might be ostracized socially for doing it, but the government's not going to come and say you can't hold it. The ACLU immediately is coming down,

not on the side of the religious person, but on the side of something that's not a civil liberty. There's no civil liberty to have birth control. Like, they could just stay out of it. But they're actually coming down on the other side. So if the ACLU is on the other side, who is left on the side of defending civil liberties? The Foundation for Individual Rights and Education. But the ACLU isn't even safe either. At William & Mary last month, one of the members of ACLU of Virginia,

the Virginia chapter which went out and defended the alt-right's right to protest in Charlottesville in August, one of their directors was giving a speech at William & Mary, and it was protested by Black Lives Matter, prevented the speech from happening. They chanted things like, the Constitution will not sustain the revolution, and liberalism is white supremacy. If only these were Trump supporters, people would really be up in arms about this stuff. A lot of people were up in arms.

I didn't get the sort of coverage that you see when Milo or Richard Spencer... Nobody's up in arms. You're up in arms. I'm up in arms. Well, I'm up in arms whenever anyone gets sent. I was in USA Today today defending the right of Richard Spencer to appear at the University of Florida. Good for you.

Which is not an easy thing to do in a national newspaper, of course. And my theory is that the reason there's oxygen in Richard Spencer's movement. Because people pay attention to him. No. Because they won't ignore him. It's because people like me and you who might want to talk about what Amy Wax wants to talk about, we can't talk about it. The only place you can talk about that stuff is on the alt-right. So they start making inroads

into what I would call moderates. Well, Steve Bannon said in an interview recently, if the left wants to keep playing these identity politics games, please. I mean, it only plays into our hands. There was this guy that was on, I think, a couple weeks ago, Jonathan Haidt, and he said a really interesting thing. He said a really interesting thing.

He said a really interesting thing. He's like, if you leave truth out there, somebody will grab it. That really resonated with me because the left has pushed so far left that all of a sudden there's a little truth there. Explain to me what you mean. Our grandparents or great-grandparents might have said things like, listen, women shouldn't cook. Women should only cook. They shouldn't work. Then the left was like, hey, listen, women shouldn't cook. Women should only cook. They shouldn't work. And then the left was like,

hey, listen, women can do whatever. That's fine. Now the left is, there's no such thing as a woman. There's no such thing as a man. Their sexualities are the same. And all of a sudden, there's a little truth

to the right of that, right? And who's latched onto that truth? Sometimes it's a good guy and sometimes it's the alt-right. So now you have a situation where the alt-right or these kind of fundamentalists have a, and this is weird to say, but they have a tiny little bit of truth in their movement. It's way easier to attract followers when you've got truth.

Oh, they have a lot. They have – if you – I mean, don't – please, nobody listening. Confuse me. They hate me. There's no home for me in the KKK. Same. Same. In the KKK.

I have not one bit of sympathy for any racist whatever. None, none, none. And I should say the same as well. Yeah, you should. Let anyone think I support Richard Spencer. Yeah, but they would be more accepting of you. Because I perhaps defend his right to say what he wants to say. See, here's the problem. No, because you're a handsome Harry.

I don't have blonde hair. I don't have blonde hair. You don't have blonde hair. Or blue eyes. Neither does Spencer. You don't have blonde hair, but what you do have are sharp features. And he's a handsome guy. Imagine him in the steam room.

That's what I'm supposed to say. Well, unfortunately, I don't get these kinds of guys jerking off in front of me. Welcome home, guys. But, and he also, how do you do, sir? Whose hand are we shaking? That's Gad Elmala, the international man of mystery.

I would also point out that our friend Nico talks, his voice, the timbre of his voice is reminiscent of Tony Robbins. Don't you find? The self-help guy? The self-help guru. Andrew Schultz, are you going? I'm going to go do a set. You're going to do a set. Did you vote for Trump? No, I voted for Hillary. I voted for Bernie. And Hillary. But that's an interesting

thing. It's like, if you even defend anything that Trump says, there's the immediate assumption that you voted for him, you support every single one of his values. It's kind of... Well, there is that. I didn't make that assumption.

I'm just asking the question. But I do agree with you that as soon as you say, well, maybe Trump didn't, you know, do this, everybody just assumes you're a Trump supporter and says, oh, you Trump supporters are all the same. And now when you say you don't, they call you a sneaky Trump supporter. This is the new level.

Is that real? Do people call you that? Of course. So if you're a sneaky Trump supporter, it means you're lying about voting for Trump. So they're so committed to this idea that you voted that they'll actually accuse you of lying. I think there were a lot of people like me. I think you were one of the people that we knew Trump was not the right man

for the job. Of course. You can't vote for him. Nevertheless, when Hillary lost, it was kind of pleasurable. No comment. No comment. No comment. But he's a member of the old left. So the old left supports free speech. Barack Obama twice in 2015 came out and said,

college students shouldn't be coddled and protected from different points of view. Bernie Sanders has said the same thing. We can look at Van Jones, who worked with President Obama. He said, you know what, when you go to a college campus, I don't want to pave the jungle for you. I want you to go out there, engage with people you disagree, test your ideas. What are you afraid of?

The other side's opinion, their ideas? Do you think you can't beat them? And the old ACLU was the same way, and there are still many people within the ACLU that believe that. The ACLU is buckled. I'm trying to get someone from the ACLU was the same way, and there are still many people within the ACLU that believe that. The ACLU is buckled. I'm trying to get someone from the ACLU on the air because I really want to go to town on them. You should get Lee Rowland. Yeah, we've had her on a few times.

Wait, is that the woman? Yes. Very nice lady. She's been on a couple times. Yeah, she and I had it out about the travel ban, remember? Memory serves. And I told her that she's a Harvard attorney. She's really smart.

Yeah. But I said to her. Well, you're an attorney too, right? Yeah, but I'm not as smart as her. UPenn, right? UPenn, that's a top five law. That's pretty good. Is it top five?

Yeah. So I said to her that you're describing the law as you wish it were, not the law as it is. Well. And she kind of huffed and puffed. But then the Supreme Court upheld the travel ban. Well, I mean, there's a long tradition, and you know this in law, where lawyers, especially public interest lawyers, try and litigate so that the law goes where it wants. That's right. They want it to go.

But I'm not the judge. Anyway, she's really smart. But so, yeah, the ACLU, what's left of them? I don't know. Go ahead. What else? I'm back from Paris, Noam. I don't know if you wanted to talk about that a little bit.

Gad, you know, Dan just did his... You don't have to come, but Dan just got back from Paris. He did his whole... I didn't do the whole act. So you asked me a question and you said you don't have to come. I don't want to come. I don't want to impose on you. I'm imposing. Okay, come on. Gad Elmul, everybody. This is Gad Elmul, an international star

in the Francophone world and soon to be an Anglophone star. We're all hoping, and we have our fingers crossed. How was Paris, Dan? Very French. Very French. Yes, it was fine. I was at the Pan Am Club.

Are you familiar with that club? Have you ever played there? And I did some sets in English and some sets in French. And the question often comes up, Dan, why do you do it? Why do you do it? And the guy does the same thing. So you speak French? I certainly do.

He taught himself French along the room. No, no, he speaks very, very well. He speaks like in the books, like he's a literature. Yes. You know, he uses expressions that I don't even know in French. Dan, that's your man.

Do the French understand your jokes, though? I learned from books, so I didn't learn from just talking normal. The French, they understand. Mostly they understand it, yeah. They understand it. But do they land the same way with the culture being different? Well, some jokes don't. Some jokes don't land the same way.

Let me give you an example. A lot of the jokes that don't work are jokes that are, that are rely on wordplay. For example, I have a joke where I say, you know, somebody asked me, Dan, where can we go to get laid? And I said, oh, you go to the end of the block and then you turn gay. You get it? End of the block, turn gay.

In English, the word turn has two, two, you know, meanings, either physically making a turn, changing direction, or becoming. And in French, I don't believe you have that double meaning that one word conveys both meaning to turn. I'm trying to think for the right translation for that joke. Yeah, maybe the joke just won't work because it relies on the double meaning of the word turn. I like that you explained the mechanic of comedy. I think that's interesting. I think it's interesting, too. I think it's interesting, yeah.

Dan did an Esquire video, actually, on the anatomy of a joke. Did you see it? There was a video. No, no. I'll send it to you. Very good. It was a good joke. I was explaining my cousin Sheila joke.

You know my cousin Sheila joke. I love this joke. It's a fine joke, and I was explaining that. But this one worked in French, I'm sure. No, no, the turn gate did not work. No, not the turn gate. The cousin Sheila joke. You know my cousin Sheila joke. I love this joke. It's a fine joke, and I was explaining that. But this one worked in French, I'm sure. No, no, the turn gay did not work. No, not the turn gay, the cousin Sheila.

Yes, yes, yes, cousin Sheila, certainly, cousin Sheila worked. Maybe Luke can cut the cousin Sheila joke into the show. Oh, I have the translation for you.

Yeah. Tu vas te droit et tu te retrouves gay. Tu te retrouves gay. It means, it te retrouves gay. Tu te retrouves gay. It's a double meaning. Tu te retrouves means you're going to be... I don't know. Yeah, it works.

It would work? Yeah, but he can try it tonight at the cellar. I cannot try it tonight. It makes no sense. I cannot. I can't. It makes no sense. Gad has trouble with can versus can't,

as a lot of foreign people do. Yeah, I have trouble with a lot of words. No, what are you talking about? His English is excellent. Oh, man, it's hard. His English is very good, but we're trying to get it to be even better than that. It doesn't need to be. Whatever.

Dan's, you know. You know he's never happy. He's never going to be happy. No, I want the best for you. By the way, tell me about the girls. Paris, the girls. Did you have sex? I struck out so bad.

Oh. So bad I struck out. Why? What is struck out? See, he doesn't speak perfectly. That's a baseball thing. That's a baseball metaphor. Okay.

I don't even know the rules. He's blocked at the goal. Go ahead. Okay, first base and second base. Yes. I'm not saying Gad's English isn't good. I'm saying I want it to be even better because I want Gad to succeed. Gad's English is interesting, but not as interesting as you striking out.

So get to the point. I struck out so bad. So bad. No, I did. I just, I try, you know, I scrambled around. I texted people that I know in Paris. They didn't text back. Some of those people you might know.

They must have loved you with the accent and the American accent in French. I'm sure they found you charming and fun. And then, I don't know after. Exotique. Exotique. Yeah. Well, I didn't. Nothing happened, you know.

How were the steam rooms? It's also hard. I didn't check out the steam rooms over there. Don't they have like a Craigslist prostitution option over there? Probably, but I don't enjoy prostitution because I want the girl to want to be there. What's the American accent sound like to a foreigner? I've always wondered this because if you speak with a French accent, you sound exotic. If you speak with a German one, you sound angry. So talk French as if you're... What happens when you speak with a French accent, you sound exotic. If you speak with a German one, you sound angry.

So talk French as if you're... What happens when you speak with an American accent? You sound organized. Really? Yeah, an American accent is organized. Gad does a good impression. It's like this. And, yeah, can I help you?

Browsing. I'm just browsing. And browsing is a fantastic word that you guys came up with. It means nothing. It means doing nothing. But it's a code between you guys. Like if I say browsing in a store, I'm going to leave you alone. But in France, I'll have to say

I'm going to look for a few things. Maybe I buy but I'm not sure. So maybe I take some time and I tell you if I need anything and maybe you can help me. But you guys came up with browsing. It's fantastic. Well, we's a very... We have a very efficient language. Also, skank is a great word.

And also words that are not... And butterface, which you... Which you couldn't even do in French because, again, you know, everything's hot. Butterface. Too many of the words butter. My favorite is the most vague one is a bunch of stuff. A bunch of stuff. A bunch of stuff.

What's wrong with that? I have no idea what it means. It's so vague. I don't know. Bunch, you don't know how many, how much. Stuff, I don't know what it is. In French, you would say on paddy shows, maybe? No, you wouldn't. As the Frenchman sips his wine.

Yeah, and? No. No, you wouldn't. As the Frenchman sips his wine. Yeah, and the scarf. Gad, you're on tour in America now. Yeah, I'm going to D.C. tomorrow. I'm doing five shows at the Improv. So I'm doing those clubs where people eat.

I'm not used to that. Have you been to D.C. before? I used to live there. Yeah, I've been there before. Birchmere Theater. Now I'm doing five shows at the Improv. And then L.A. And then I come back to New York to tape the Netflix special at Town Hall.

Yay! This is a big announcement. Here, first time. Congratulations, guys. Thank you. An English Netflix. Obviously in English. You've done a French Netflix special.

Yeah, obviously an English one. Yeah. At Town Hall, New York. Do you know Town Hall? Yeah. I've never been, but I know it's a nice venue. Yeah. I took my bar review, of course, at Town Hall.

Okay, before we go, I don't want to run out of time because Ryan is here, and Ryan wants to promote his podcast. Oh, it's not my podcast. I'm featured on Seth Meyers' podcast. Seth Meyers has a podcast? Yeah. Oh. What's that like?

Oh, so basically there's some live segments that the producers do. And I also do a segment where we take a segment from the show and we interview the audience afterwards on their opinions of gun control, political issues. By the way, now here you are. You're on one of these lefty shows. Whoa. Why couldn't Seth Meyers have on an Amy Wax or somebody? So he does. He does have conservative people. It's probably hard to get them off. It is because they don't want to get in the position of having to defend Trump.

So a lot of times conservative politicians will pass on doing our show or other shows because they don't want to have in the position of having to defend Trump. So a lot of times conservative politicians will pass on doing our show or other shows because they don't want to have to sit there and defend Trump. Why does it have to be about Trump? Kelly Conway was on. All right. She was pretty good, yeah. I suggested when Hassan Minhaj was here that the Daily Show should have at least one person that's not far, far left and somebody that's a little bit closer to the center or to the right. I wouldn't care so much, really, if they just...

I've said a few times, and I don't know where you guys stand on this. I mean, I know you agree with me, but I think this is really the heart of the matter, the more I think about it. We need a societal norm that allows people the right to their opinion. We almost used to have that. We have that's in the rear view mirror now and fading fast.

In other words, it's the only way around it. It's not the laws. Like when the guy in Google says something, they shouldn't fire him. They say, you know, you're a jackass. But we're not going to fire you. Football field, whatever it is, they should be just like, you know what? You're an idiot. And then move on.

But this kind of shunning people, expecting them to sacrifice their careers, everything there, you know, being bullied because they don't agree with you, it's un-American. Actually, it's America as I grew up in, and it's heading in a bad direction. It really is. It really, really, really worries me. Free speech is not popular speech. You're right.

Free speech is not popular speech. As Amy Wax said, when the faculty at University of Pennsylvania, when they came at her, they didn't make one argument. They didn't make one contrary assertion to anything she asserted. They just called her names. This is the faculty of one of the top five law schools in the country. Was there a time where there weren't these kinds of issues? Absolutely. During the Vietnam

War, you'd probably get into a fight if you brought up your opinion. When I went to college, the ACLU was defending the Nazis in Skokie. They're defending the Nazis every year. They're still defending Nazis. Mayor Kahane was speaking at Tufts University. Noam Chomsky.

Like, there was no... Anybody could come speak at the college. Nobody cared. Nobody cared. I don't know. I remember when Farrakhan tried to speak at UPenn when I was there. And what happened? I don't know if he ended up coming or not,

but there was a humongous brouhaha. That was wrong. Didn't they let the leader of Iran speak at Columbia? Yeah. As I recall, recently. As they should have. Within the last five years. They should let anybody speak, a Holocaust denier, anybody.

They do pick and choose who they decide to censor. There is that, because they are very hands-off on certain issues. That's why we need a societal norm. The university, people in charge of the university, their position ought to be, listen, not our business who they have come speak. They can have anybody they want as long as they're not, you know. Well, the university can decide who they want to speak. You know, they have their own First Amendment right to decide as well.

But the students and the faculty should be able to invite whoever they want. And now we're seeing a situation where if you invite the wrong person, you're not even confident that your event will happen because it will get heckled or there will be violence. There will be violence and they're worried about lawsuits. So it can go back to the lawyers that are suing because of any demonstrations or, you know, injuries that occur during these protests. And now you're spending a lot of money. In my op-ed today in USA Today, I talk about how the University of Florida is spending half a million dollars to ensure that Richard Spencer's thing can go off without any sort of violence. Ben Shapiro, sort of a run-of-the-mill conservative, really, at University of California, Berkeley,

they spent $600,000 to ensure that his speech is just like saying a couple words on campus, wouldn't be met with violence as it was in February. And by the way, the truth is a casualty. Like, for instance, we talked about this a million times. And they need to spend this money. In the criminal justice, the police, the shootings, and all that.

You are not permitted, and don't get me wrong, I don't want to see anybody shot by the cops, and I want to be on the 100% moral side of every issue. But you are not allowed to talk about the data, the actual data, as it pertains

to race and shootings and... Well, John Hite did on your show a couple weeks ago. But you know what? to talk about the data, the actual data as it pertains to race and shootings. Well, John Hite did on your show a couple weeks ago. But you know what? He wasn't happy. No, he wasn't. He wasn't happy about it. And I don't blame him. And then Andrew Sullivan did, and he got away with it.

But I have conversations with people about this, and I nod and smile half the time I won't tell them and this stuff I'm reading in the New York Times or the Washington Post I mean what are you afraid of why aren't you going out there and saying it because if you if you introduce the data say listen I'm this is what the most recent data is on it you're worried about getting called a racist they'll call you a racist they will call you a racist. I'm not a racist. It's like this is religion. It's just like climate denying.

Data doesn't matter. You're not allowed to talk about the data. It doesn't matter if it's from Harvard or from Washington Post or from Heather McDonald. Well, the people who do that are doing themselves a disservice because they're expanding what it means to be a racist. They're doing the whole country a disservice. Until the point where nobody actually believes anyone when they say something is racist anymore. Listen, let's say cops are shooting innocent black people at numbers far, you know, exceeding numbers.

They shoot innocent white people. Let's say it's racism. So, of course, you're a black parent, and you have to teach your child the reality of the world. But what if it's not true? And what if you're teaching your children to be scared of the cops and to resent the country when it's actually not true? Is that a big damage to the nation right now?

De Blasio. De Blasio said it to his son, you need to be scared of the police. So it's not just a matter of free speech. There's real consequences when you can't talk about things. Well, you need to have Lenore Skenazi on this show. I have. Yeah, she does free-range kids and she talks about how because of whatever, it could be the media,

social media, people think crime is worse now than it was in the 90s. They're not letting their kids go to the park by themselves. My wife is like that. She's a nut. She sees a kidnapping in Iowa somewhere and she won't let her kid play on the lawn. But there's nothing in the data that says you should be more paranoid today than you should have been in 1991.

No, on the contrary. Data says you should be much less paranoid. Yes. Yeah, but this is... And now she's the worst mom in the world for letting her kid go on the subway. You know, the physiological, I think, nature of the brain and the way it jumps to conclusions and processes things is really no match for social media and these small bites on Twitter, whatever it is. We're just not equipped almost evolutionarily to sift through this velocity of data and be able to maintain an objective, kind of thoughtful impression on it.

I'm very pessimistic. Like, what's going to happen? I don't know. Well, there are some people who seem to can maintain a degree of rationality whenever one of these outrage mobs... Very few, not half the faculty of the University of Pennsylvania Law School who have been trained in graduate school to remain objective. Yeah.

I said to Wax, I said, does high IQ correlate with anything worthwhile? I mean, you begin to, like, we tend to think being smart is somehow associated with these other good qualities. It's not. Well, what would happen if Charles Murray came on the show? Listen, I would love to have Charles. I would love to have Charles. I would love to have Charles. I would state, Nico, because you made a couple of guest suggestions,

that this is not normally, that the show is normally more showbiz oriented. I try to make it that way anyway. Lawyers look for problems. They don't necessarily look to be objective. They're looking for a situation where they could stir it up a little. So, I mean, like if you have, He may even know he should be objective as an attorney, but he also knows he can get some attention if he throws a flag at someone for saying

something or doing something. I think that Charles Murray's line of inquiry is not a good idea. Well, clearly, it's done terrible things for his career. He can't go anywhere and speak with them. It's not beneficial. I heard a podcast by him recently.

I never read The Bell Curve. With Sam Harris? Yeah. It's not clear to me what he's really trying to prove and what he really believes, or he just thinks it's an open question. And he tries to make the point that even if there are differences in IQs between,

of course, he talks about Blacks, he talks about Ashkenazi and Sephardic, whatever, that he tries to make sure that we understand that, you know, 95% of all people are basically indistinguishable. And this is just only at the tails of the curve. But in the end, this information is going to be weaponized by racists and even people who try not to be racist but they internalize it somehow

and what's interesting, I'll tell you a story about Charles Murray is that my kid's preschool he's a little late with his slow motor skills I mean his fine motor skills so they wanted to give him an IQ test

as part of his evaluation. And I didn't want to give him the IQ test. And Charles Murray had an op-ed about something about IQ and parents. Well, if he scores low, it'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I emailed Charles Murray. Cold email out of bliss. You don't have to answer this. You don't know me. But I know you know a lot about this.

And I told him about my child. And he wrote me back the most beautiful email maybe I've ever gotten. And he says, do not let them give your child an IQ test. First of all, it's not reliable. Second of all, once that score is in his mind, your mind, or the teacher's mind,

you can never get it out of your mind. And he says, just let him be a beautiful little boy. This is what that horrible Charles Murray wrote to me. But, I thought when I read it, I said,

well, the fact that it stays in your mind and you recognize that, he needs to recognize that too about these racial arguments. Well, that email is interesting

because he says the IQ tests aren't reliable, so then why is he writing a book? No, because the child is so young. Oh, gotcha.

At that age. I should have said that. Important information. Yeah, yeah, sorry. I don't know anything aboutcha. At that age. I should have said that. Important information. Yeah, yeah, sorry. I don't know anything about IQ science. To your point, I've seen that in high schools where people might get deemed as special education or learning disabled, and they may not be, but they get that label,

and then they just live that life. Our friend Harry Enten, who's at 538.com and who's a super genius, when he was in second grade, he was in remedial reading, and they thought he had issues. He certainly has issues. No, but we're almost... So what do you think?

Should we have Charles Murray as a guest? It's suicide, right? Well, you might get protested. You might get angry emails. I don't know if people actually come to the club. I'm afraid of it. But Sam Harris did the podcast. I think it's one of his most popular ever.

But he also had two and a half hours to really dig into the nitty-gritty of what Charles Murray wrote. In an hour, I don't know that you have enough time. Well, I can just imagine people turning their dials, you know, like, ooh, the Comedy Cellar podcast. This will be an interesting deep dive into the world of stand-up. And then we hear the black man's IQ. Look, Charles Murray can't get away from the bell curve, but what he really is notable for right now is that other book he wrote, Coming Apart,

where he predicted everything. I mean, he does have a lot to say, especially at this moment in history. No, we are almost done, but I did want to, I believe you were in Vegas recently. Yes, I was in Vegas. And our listeners know, if you're a regular listener, that the Comedy Cell of Vegas is coming soon.

Probably January 2018. I was wondering if there's any news afoot, because you were recently in Vegas. Well, we went out there, it was a week of the shooting, so I think business was a little bit depressed on the strip, a little bit. And the shows were not good that I saw. I'd have to say that.

But I'm pretty optimistic about our chances in Vegas. Because you weren't optimistic a few weeks ago, so what changed? I went to these other rooms, and then I came off the plane and I came down to the cellar and the underground.

And I said, oh my god, this is so much better. The atmosphere is so much richer and more intimate and more electric. And the comedians are so much better. And the lighting is so much better. I said, if this were in Vegas, I said, this would have to be popular.

Absolutely. Compare, like, these other places, they draw crowds, but no one's going to go back twice. But I really believe that if we are able to build this room properly, then it's going to go. And the Rio was much busier than I had given it credit for. I mean, Vegas is a tourist town, so people often don't go back twice because they leave town. No, but they come back.

How can they tell their friends? They come back, they tell their friends, but I also think you'll have a lot of locals show up. I think one reason is because the Rio is off of the Strip a little bit, so the locals like to stay off the Strip. Somebody else told me that. Yeah, they like to stay off the St strip, but I also think a genuine experience draws anybody from the community, and I would not be surprised if it's a local home. Well, will the shows

be priced low enough to draw regular local crowds? Well, that's an interesting... I want to see if there's a way that we can charge locals less. Like Cuba. Because one of the things I... Two currencies, that's what you need to do. Like you Cal Berkeley does for tuition. But this is an unsolicited plug for the

comedy seller. This is one of the best values in town. Like, on first dates, my girlfriend, who I've been dating for over a year now, I took her here. I mean, it's awesome. You come sit up here at the Olive Tree, and you get a drink, and you get almost guaranteed that you'll sit in the front at the beginning, because, you know, you can put your name in. And then you go in, and you engage

with some of the best comedians in the world. I remember I brought her for the first time. Dave Attell was doing a bit. And I get up to go to the bathroom. I come back. I've got long hair at the time. And he says, who is this guy you're with? He looks like a magician's boyfriend.

I'm like, she loved that. And that's like a story we still tell to this day. For $20 and the price of two beers, you can get one of the best shows in town, in the world. Most of the country's national treasures are well known. Unfortunately, Dave Attell is not known to be the genius that he is. Your favorite comedian's favorite comedian. I mean, he is just unbelievable.

And he did the whole thing. It was just he winged it. Well, at least it seemed like it. As opposed to the comedians who seem to wing it but who really aren't winging it, Attell really is winging it 85% of the time. That's why everybody rushes down to watch him. They won't even go down to watch, you know, I don't want to say,

they won't go down to watch the most famous evil. Everybody goes down to watch Attell because really you don't know what he's going to say. Hilarious, yeah. Yeah. No, just as a, almost as an intellectual feat, like to see what he's doing in real time as fast as he's going to say. Hilarious, yeah. No, just as a, almost as an intellectual feat, like to see what he's doing in real time, as fast

as he's doing it, as original as he's doing it, it's just remarkable on the order of seeing the most brilliant musician, jazz musician or something. It's amazing. It's language. It's like he's mastered comedic language. And that's one of the great things about the Cellar is you can just show up and it's like a random

Wednesday night and he might be here. Attell's here all the time. You look at the schedule and you can see when he's here. He's not a surprise guest that Chris Rock might come by or Louis or Chappelle. They come by unannounced generally. Could I ask a question

before you guys wrap up? What is in it for you fighting this fight? I don't know. I've always sort of been interested in this issue. I mean, what free speech allows you to do is it allows you to be who you are and to speak your mind. I mean, when you think about who you are, it's really how you interact with other people and what you say to other people. And if you feel as though you cannot be who you are in society, you're really not the person you want to be.

And so, you know, I go out there and I defend people's right to be who they are and to speak their minds, even if they're, quite frankly, an asshole like, you know, Richard Spencer. Because I know that the Overton window for acceptable opinion will keep shrinking if we don't fight it at the edges. I don't know anything about the Overton window. You lost me with the Overton window. It's a window of publicly acceptable opinion. Free speech allows you to learn. It does.

And in two ways. I've learned from speaking to people who I, you know, even somebody I thought I might vehemently disagree with, but you listen to them and you may pick something up you didn't know. But in another way, for instance, like if you want to talk to a Holocaust denier, you know what you have to them and you may pick something up you didn't know. But in another way, for instance, if you want to talk to a Holocaust denier, you know what you have to do? What's he going to say to me? How do you know there was six million?

You actually have to go and you study the Holocaust and you really learn the facts. You kind of know the conclusions, but it forces you to learn, to really learn about what the real facts are so that you can confront this guy. I guarantee everyone listening to this podcast has gotten to a Facebook debate with someone where they've just spouted out a fact that they weren't sure of, and then they're forced to defend it.

And the first thing they do is they go to Google, and they look it up, and they learn something about what they said. That's what debate, you know, your ideas are like a muscle. You need to exercise them in order for them to be strong. And John Stuart Mill, in his seminal book, On Liberty, that defended free speech, said, you know, if you don't exercise your opinions, you start to hold them as a prejudice, as a dead dogma. And nobody wants to do that. I mean, Noam, if you were to go out today and meet a Flat Earth Society member, what would you use to convince them that the earth is round? I mean, like,

let's say you don't have Google and you can't look at a picture of the Earth. What sort of science are you going to bring to bear on that conversation? Or the Holocaust, for example. I'm putting you on the spot. I would draw an angle from here to the

horizon and I would calculate the geometric angle. We never have to do that, right? We never confront these guys. I'll tell you, this guy speaks, and his looks don't match what he's saying. Here's a guy that looks like he should be talking about doing squats at the gym.

A lot of prejudice over there, huh? So handsome guys can't be smart? Well, is that what it is? I'm saying in the popular... He's handsome, but he's also in tremendous shape. I mean, the guy clearly spends a lot of time at the gym. Am I right? You're painting a picture here.

Am I right or am I right? Yeah, I go three times a week. Spends a lot of time at the gym. He likes to keep himself in shape. I went and did bicep curls before this. Just ask him what gym so you guys can get it over with. I'm just saying you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. That's good.

That is true. That's what I'm trying to say because I looked at this man. I said, you know, with all due respect, you know, I have a trainer. What can we do? Turns out he's a free speech guy. What kind of free speech? You know, I go back and forth. Sometimes I wake up in the morning and I'm like, I want to start a free speech project.

And I say, this is the corniest thing. Well, you do the debates. I went to one. Well, we kind of haven't been doing debates. But what can we do? Can we do something with you to help you? How can we strike a blow for, not for any particular point of view, for the idea

of people saying whatever they want to say? I have a dinner. I have a birthday dinner that I have to go to. You didn't allow yourself an extra tent. I don't have to go. You just decided anything you might answer is just not worth your while.

No, I just see we're getting into a huge discussion. And I'm doing the steam room. This is comic logic. I'm not going to be talking for another five minutes. I've got to get out of here. I think I've got to go. No, not at all. I'm the host of the show, but this guy's boring me.

I'm not going to go. What can we say? You already have done stuff. I mean, when we came out with our documentary, Can We Take a Joke? We did a bit here before it was screened over at the IFC Theater, and you talk about it on the show. But, you know, I always say this. I host a podcast on free speech topics called So To Speak, and freedom of speech isn't an intuitive concept.

For centuries, people's first reactions, rulers' first reactions when they hear things they don't like is to censor it, throw you in jail, sometimes kill you. I mean, it's not intuitive that we let the people we disagree with speak, especially if you hold... No, it's empirical, but go ahead. Yeah, especially if you hold a position of power. So it sort of almost takes your ox getting gored to understand the importance of it. And for anyone right now that wants to go out there and censor speech, create hate speech laws, create blasphemy laws. Think about the person who's going to be enforcing those. I mean, do you really want Donald Trump at that helm? I always ask people, who would you decide for you what books you can read, for you what movies you can watch, for you

what podcasts you listen to? Because undergirding any philosophy of censorship is the presumption that there is some person out there with whom you would task the responsibility of determining for you what people can say and what they can hear. I don't want to show off, but have you read Hayek? Yeah, of course. He talks about this. Who decides? Who decides? Well, he wrote a great essay.

Now Dan's really going to go. He wrote a great essay. It just feels like this is going to take a long time, which is fine. Can I just say like this is getting too philosophical for you. It's just going to take a long time, which is fine. Can I just say one thing? So Dan, I always worry about this. We got an email from somebody who says that, I've listened to the podcast, the radio show for years, whatever it is,

but last week when you had John Haidt on, it was the greatest show I have ever heard. How can I download it? I want to share it with many of my friends. So there is this thing, Dan, when it's interesting to you, it is interesting to other

people. And you have the confidence to do what you love, because if you do what you love, you're going to do it well. If I'm going to try to bend the show to be something like a Harvey Levin, you know, TMZ inside. No, not at all.

Not at all. But for example, you can talk about your fucking cousin Sheila joke. I want to talk about free speech. That's all. All right. Well, okay.

Or we can talk about both. We got to go. What? The email is comedy, what's the email? The comedy, comedy, email the

Comedy Cellar Show at ComedyCellar.com or ComedyCellar at ComedyCellar.com or Owner at ComedyCellar.com. Anything at the Comedy Cellar. Okay, Dan's got it. Forward me the hate mail, though, please. If you get any from this. We don't get hate mail, but Dan is like so...

Listen, Sirius has kept us on the air now for five years. Hey, now. Five years. Now, I don't know if that's just because they want to keep a good relationship with me because they do shows at the club or whatever it is. But some of the shows are kind of political. Some of them are funny. But, you know, I find it interesting.

I listen to it in podcast form. When does it actually air on Sirius? It's Thursdays at 7 o'clock and then it's twice more on the weekends. Andrew likes it. I don't know. It's my first time. I'm having a great time. I stayed the whole time.

Important. Very important conversations. Really, really, really time. I'm having a great time. I stayed the whole time. Important. Very important conversations. Really, really, really important. And Dan's allergic to that. Okay. Dan's an attorney, too, by the way. You'd never know. Is he really?

Yeah, because there's absolutely no way. I went to Fordham, but he's still an attorney, technically. Fordham's a good school. Get his dog, Fordham. Is that what just happened? Not a top five law school, but he's hanging in there. Are you ever concerned stigma is going to put you out of work? I mean...

Are you independently wealthy? I am not independently wealthy. How can you provide security in your life when people are calling you a racist all the time? I mean, surprisingly, I don't get called a racist. I wouldn't be surprised if someone did because I defend the free speech rights of racists. I don't think you are that. I'm just saying sometimes when you defend a witch, you become a witch. I know, especially now.

You never know what's going to happen. But I take solace in the fact that there's a long lineage of people doing exactly what I've done. And maybe the times were different, but I believe what I believe. And there will always be those fellow travelers out there who believe what I believe as well. And God forbid if I lose my job, hopefully they will give me one. I came late. Where do you work again? I work for the Foundation for Individual Rights and Education. We do civil liberties on college campus.

Headline news right now. For most of our time doing this work, we were defending the guy protesting the parking garage or the guys protesting the student union. This is all new stuff. We've got to wrap it up. Ryan Reese, you've got a podcast. Yeah, you can check me out on the Late Night with

Seth Meyers podcast. You can also check out my Instagram rrcomedy. Catch me at the Comedy Cellar. Thanks. Fire, F-I-R-E. Yeah, the podcast, so to speak. The Free Speech Podcast. Andrew Schultz. Yeah, the podcast, so to speak, the free speech podcast. Andrew Schultz. Yeah, check out.

I do a podcast. You can get everything at theandrewschultz.com. Check it out. My suggestion to people when somebody presents you with an idea that you don't like is to either refute it, and if you can't refute it, integrate it into your point of view. That is the requirement of an intellectually honest person. Okay, good night, everybody.