The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Noah Gardenswartz & Jaye McBride

Episode Date: March 9, 2018

Noah Gardenswatz is a New York City-based standup comedian and writer for the television program, "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel." He can be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar. Jaye McBride is a New York City-based transgender standup comedian.

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. My name is Noam Dwarman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. I'm at the back table of The Comedy Cellar with my very dear friend, Mr. Dan Natterman. How do you do? Aren't we dear friends, Dan? I don't think as much as anybody can be friends with Dan, we're friends. Actually, that wasn't nice.

You have close friends, right? I do. Yeah, I have friends. But you have intimacy issues. I certainly do, yes. But we don't, Noam and I don't talk on the phone. I do have friends with whom I talk on the phone and with whom I get together outside of comedy.

Noam is not one of them, but maybe that will change at some point. Well, I want to talk on the phone. I see you for hours every night. That's the sign of true friendship, not needing to talk on the phone. That's right, and not having to say you're sorry. Okay, well, that's from, that was from Love Story.

Okay, and we have some guests. Maybe they'll become friends. I won't call you, though. Sorry. Okay. Well, that was from Love Story. Okay. And we have some guests. Maybe they'll become friends. I won't call you, though. Sorry. I won't call you on the phone now. No, I mean you guys will become friends. Okay. You people.

I'm doing it already. Is that a trans joke? No, I didn't mean it as a trans joke. So, Mr. Noah Gordon Schwartz, who is a comedian and a writer for? The Mrs. Maisel Show. What's it called? The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.

That's a show, Noam, about a stand-up comic in the 50s. We'll talk about that in a bit. It's a sitcom? It is a...

No, it's like a dramedy. A dramedy, if you will. It's an hour long on Amazon. And that's on Amazon Prime, I guess. Yeah, I get that. Okay.

So Noam is a writer for that and we'll talk about it. And a guest of honor, I guess. Jay McBride. Yes, thank you. That's Jay, not Jane. Jay, J-A-Y-E, who is a, why does it matter?

But anyway, who is a transgender comedian based in New York City. Correct. Love the phrase, guest of honor, I guess. Right. Well, because she doesn't work here. She doesn't work here, and you work here. Okay, so here I'm trying to get a waitress job though so if you guys are hiring they're always hiring

so the first question is this is it still noteworthy that you're transgender I don't know that it's noteworthy but people still react to it maybe not in New York City because New York's woke AF, but if I go to Nebraska or something like that,

they're still like, oh. I think it's noteworthy because I'm assuming you talk about it on stage. Yes. Therefore, that distinguishes you from the average comedian who does not have that experience. Right.

So there's something different. Yeah, I think it's different, but I think everyone, you know, I don't want to make it sound like that's all I talk about. You know, everyone talks about their life a little bit. But, yeah, I definitely bring up stuff about that, you know, about, like, my dad not accepting it, about trying to date, about, you know, my childhood. So I think it's stuff that other people talk about, but because I'm trans, I think it's just a different spin than a lot of people have.

I think that would be fascinating. Let's face it. We've heard enough jokes about, you know about the typical topics that people talk about. Right. Your dad doesn't accept you? Well, he's dead now, so he's fine with it. He didn't accept you? He was not a fan of this whole thing.

He died when I was 18, so it was before I actually transitioned, but I was a very feminine child. I know he was not a fan. Did he know that you were trans before he passed? I think he thought I was a very feminine child. And, oh, he was not a fan. Did he know that you were trans before he passed? I think he thought I was gay just based on some of the talks I've had. One of my memories, when I was like 10 or so, we were watching TV. And these drag queens and female impersonators came on the TV. And I'm looking at them like, that's it. That's what I could do for a living.

I was so psyched. And then he walked in to me and my brothers. He's like, if any of you turn out like that, I'll kill you. This is a Catholic home? Yes. Oh yeah. And that's part of it? I think so. Your dad probably didn't accept you either. No, he accepted me. I think he would have had a hard

time with a trans kid if I had to be honest. I don't know, but I would imagine it probably would have been difficult for him. He was not just Catholic, but very Republican, very military, you know. Sounds great. What age did you realize that there was some disconnect? We should hang. He used to be the guest of honor. That there was a disconnect between your biological sex and your psychological sex.

I knew it all. I mean, I didn't know the name for it, and I didn't know how to describe it, but I knew there was something wrong, like, really early, you know? My earliest memories, you know? But when I was five, I remember there was this county fair, upstate New York, that's where I'm from, and they had, like, a bucket of toys for boys and a bucket of one for girls. So I picked into the girls when I was like, that's where I'm from and they had like a bucket of toys for boys and a bucket of one for girls

so of course so I picked into the girls and I was like that's it you know I want to ask you a question now there's no questions

you know in this day and age I'll answer everything in this day and age you can get tarred with epithets just for asking the wrong questions I don't know

but privately we all think things that we can't say out loud, right? Yeah. So this is my question. Okay. It seems to me, for instance, we've all, and we've all, modern society has come to the conclusion that people who are gay are born that way, period. Either it's genetic or something in the environment of the womb or whatever it is, which actually, to me, seems more the case because identical twins are not always gay,

although they're more likely to be. So that would imply something other than straight genetics. Wait, so you think there is something that happens in the womb that could alter the sexuality or the sexual preference? Yeah, I think that's more. I think that. If they have too many brunches. Something environmental in the womb seems to me without, you know, I mean, I have no basis.

Seems to me more likely than just a gene because if it was just a gene, we'd presume that identical twins would both be gay. Okay. Just like they're both the same height, but they're not. So there's some other kind of explanation. And I know that twins don't necessarily get the same nourishment. Even though they're in the same womb, they don't exactly necessarily have the same environment.

No, but it's as close to a control as you can get. So now, but it seems to me that we allow that you're born that way and it has nothing to do with you, depending on kind of how we feel about that sexual thing. For instance, pedophiles, we don't give them that break, oh, they must have been born that way. Pedophiles, we call them monsters,

but being attracted to children is no different on the face of being attracted to men or women or children or whatever it is that you're attracted to. So I'm totally ready to believe that pedophilia is something that you're born with. And then next question, but maybe you don't. The question is, do we know that transgender, that you're born transgender? That's the current consensus of thinking in the scientific community. Or is that, what I'm suspecting is that that's somehow because it's kind of the cause of acceptance of the day.

The cause du jour. The cause du jour. And I don't mean that in a flippant way. No, no, no. So that, and because we want to be good to that cause, well, it's, it's, they, they must be born that way. I mean, how, how does anybody know? Right. I mean, like, what do you know about the science of that? The pendulum definitely swung. I mean, it's at a point now where if everyone says like, I might be trans, like, ah, you know,

and everyone just assumes, you know, so I know there are people who probably aren't trans as kids that may be coming forward. That might be the case, but I think it's, it's not, not nearly as much as people assume, but what the current thinking is like, there actually are identical twins where one's trans and one isn't, but they think it's in the womb as well. The womb as well. Cause we all basically at birth, we all start out female.

We have like until about 12 weeks, not about conception. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. At conception, we all start out female at about 12 weeks or so. That's when your chromosomes will send out a signal to release certain hormones that will, at conception, we all start out female. At about 12 weeks or so, that's when your chromosomes will send out a signal to release certain hormones

that will determine your secondary sexual characteristics as male or female. And they think at that point, something goes wrong. And that's why people assume they're one gender versus the other. Now, you've used that term gone wrong a number of times already. Gone wrong? I haven't said you're wrong. No, gone wrong. If it came out of my mouth,

somebody might accuse me of bigotry. You think it's something that's gone wrong. You think it's a mishap. Ideally, she would be the sex physically that she feels she is psychologically. Right. How do you say it? God's plan. I'm not saying I regret it or anything like that.

Well, someone who's born a midget is not something that's gone wrong. Right. True, true. I guess I should be more like, you know, just the way it comes up. But it could be that something's gone wrong. Well, it's not ideal. Ideal would be she was born psychologically and biologically the same gender. No, but something's gone wrong.

It implies that maybe there was a trauma or a nutrition or something. In other words, that in a different, the same exact fetus, if nothing had gone wrong, could have been born, you could have been born a dude who felt like a dude. But something went wrong. A midget will always be born a dude who felt like a dude. Oh, yeah. But something went wrong. A midget will always be born a midget.

Gone wrong has a negative connotation. True. So that's just like semantics in terms of... No, it's not just semantics. To me, it's not just semantics. I never realized I did that. I would say gone wrong is like... Gays would not say,

oh, something went wrong in the womb. No, but being transgender has very real and very difficult consequences. At a minimum, you need to have a great deal of medical help in order to conform to your psychological nature. Right. Yeah, you're right. I never looked at it that way, where I say gone wrong. I just mean like, you know, when I say gone wrong, it's...

And thankfully for modern medical science, we can do that because 150 years ago, you couldn't. You would be physically a male for the rest of, that would be it. Right, right. I probably would have killed myself like 20 years ago too, you know, quite honestly. But do you think, well, that's a question I always ask when we have transgender people on the show, which comes up a few, which we've had a few, is you don't think you could simply live a life being feminine? That is, you say you like the girls' toys. And whatever feminism, being feminine means, you like to wear women's

clothes, you like to have your hair long, and all of that. But with a male, well, whatever it would mean. No, I get it, I get it. You don't think, if you did all those things, but you had a male body, you think that would have been intolerable for you. Yeah, because you're still, at the end of the day, you're looking at yourself in the mirror, and it's not what you think it should be, you know? You know, it's such a jumble, what we're told to believe, because you're describing that as a young boy, you always kind of wanted the girl's toys and all that stuff, right? Right, I just felt like, well, I knew I wasn't a boy. I knew I wasn't like my brothers. I just didn't know what to call it.

But within a heterosexual world, it's also rammed down our throats. There's no difference in what toys your children are supposed to want to play with. And a girl's supposed to want to play with boy toys, and now they have no, they have genderless toy aisles now because of the whole notion,

which I think is being a dad, it's absurd because I cannot get my little boy to play with Barbie dolls and I can't get my daughter to watch an Iron Man movie. It would make the household so much easier. No, but I don't think they're traumatized. Probably they could pick out whatever toy they want.

Absolutely. I try to get my daughter into superheroes just so that we can all be on the same page in the house. You can't do it. Wonder Woman. She doesn't like Wonder Woman?

Barely. Barely. Can you get your son to watch Frozen? Yeah. My daughter feels Wonder Woman is patronizing. Like,

you want me to come because I'm a girl. You want me to watch Wonder Woman. And my son, no. These gender things, they're very, they're within these kids. It's not environment.

Oh, exactly. Exactly. And that's what I think. If you look at it that way, it's like, now put it in my life, I was the one who would have wanted to watch Frozen and would have not wanted to watch superhero movies at the time. Is Frozen a feminine thing? What is Frozen?

Well, Frozen could go anywhere. I don't want to get bogged down into Frozen. I'm not familiar. I've actually never even seen Frozen. I just know Princess Elsa. It's a great movie. Sure.

Well, I like Fried Green Tomatoes. Now, what that says about me is anybody's guess. Well, Kathy Bates, I mean, she's forever. Was she in Friday?

Oh, that's right. She was in Friday. She was like hearing the story. Kathy Bates transcends gender roles. She's for everyone. That's right.

I want to talk about how, Jay, the reason you're here is because... You even played a bearded lady. What does that tell you? Right? American Horror Story. Oh, I didn't see that. Anyway, the reason you're here is because we had that discussion with Guy Branum. He was saying in his article that we don't have enough gay comedians, which is not, I don't think is true.

I mean, well, whatever enough would mean. We didn't have a proportional amount enough gay comedians, which is not, I don't think is true. I mean, well, whatever enough would mean. We didn't have a proportional amount of gay comedians. And he said we didn't have any trans comedians. And so we asked him to recommend. Noam said, well, we're certainly open to it. Noam's the owner of the club, as he mentioned. We're certainly open to it. We just haven't come across any.

And I think you asked Mehran Kagani. Yeah. Do you know any trans comedians that would be good here? And your name came up. I don't know this. How did you hear about Jay McBride? Stephen booked her.

How did I hear about Jay McBride? You didn't hear about Jay McBride. I think Mehran told Stephen. But the point is, we were discussing there's been no transgender comedian that's even auditioned for the part that we've even heard of. Guy Branum did recommend one transgender comedian. He gave me a name. And I looked her up on the internet.

And, I mean, just not a peep. Like, even on the other, this was not a person who was ready to perform here that's where it puts you in a difficult decision where there's still an element of quality control that has to come in regardless of what background that comedian is fulfilling so it's like just because you finally got the name of a transgender comedian they still have to be

a certain level of comedian they gotta go over this girl was not gonna go over so I didn't follow up I haven't seen your comedy I can tell you to write a joke. Right. They got to go over. This girl was not going to go over. Right. So I didn't follow up. I haven't seen your comedy. I can tell you, I don't know,

that if you go over, I'd be thrilled to put on. No, I appreciate that. But yeah, I mean, it's... Why would I care? Do you feel that people do care? Do you feel that you've run up against prejudice

in that regard? Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel like it's gone both ways. I mean, I feel like it's gone both ways. I mean, I was telling Stevie, I'm doing a conference just for trans people tomorrow. So you're performing at it. Yeah, so that's where I make a lot of my money. And I wouldn't have that opportunity if I weren't.

But by the same token, I know that if there's a comedy club in Evansville, Indiana, they're not going to want to book me. Their audience isn't going to want to listen to trans people. I got to tell you, go ahead, you want to say something? I was wondering, do you enjoy performing for all trans audiences? Because I do a lot of Jewish shows, right?

And sometimes those shows are nightmares. I mean, sometimes they're great, but sometimes it's actually worse to perform for an audience where it's pretty much everyone that's theoretically supposed to be on board with what you're saying, but there's so many different opinions or maybe because they're trans, they'll be much more critical of what you have to say about your experience

versus theirs. Do you have a preference? Like, I do love performing from, especially like the younger, younger trans people, like in their twenties and not like college kids. You know, I do, I do get a kick out of that. Uh, they're just so, so with it. They're like, you know, they're really into it. But I actually started in Albany. I used to do Elks Clubs. They didn't want to hear that. Or if they did,

they were putting on a good face. Did you ever perform just as a female comic without coming out to the audience? Yeah, I did that at first when I first started. And did that work? Yeah, I was decent. I was still getting booked, but I was also holding back. It's like you can't talk about, oh, I'm just a slutty girl who used to get pregnant all the time.

It's like, how often can you tell that? It's old, and it wasn't me, and it wasn't authentic, and I think people saw that. So finally, and then the reason why I started talking about being trans, a friend of mine said, oh, my friend came up to me and she said, oh, Jay isn't coming out yet. And I thought, like, if people thought I was hiding it, I didn't want to you know, I didn't want anyone to think that because that wasn't the case. I just didn't want to

advertise it and be judged solely on that. I want to tell you that I think that very often we sell the American people short. And I actually believe that for the most part, if you're really funny, like if you could Greer Barnes it in terms of

then it wouldn't matter what, I mean you might find some creep somewhere anywhere. But I don't think any audience would mind. I remember nobody thought we'd ever have a black president. We had a black president who won a majority. This? Because this movie, Black Panther, oh, nobody's interested in it, but it is the biggest movie ever.

What's his name? Eddie Izzard in England is kind of trans or whatever he is. He did recently come out as trans, actually. And nobody cares. And I think that it can be used as an excuse. And I think that people will surprise you in how accepting they can be. I 100% agree with that. My thought, though, is I think someone who's booking a room,

they're going to have that prejudice. They may make the same mistake that I'm describing. Yes, I agree with that. I think they might. Whereas, I have performed in the Midwest before. I was in this, do you know the Great American Comedy Festival? Yeah. That's Eddie Brill. Yeah.

They were great. It was a small town in Nebraska. It was like a big theater. They loved me. It was the greatest feeling in the world. And, you know. This is a common mistake. I mean, it was always, like, people who decide the sitcom world.

Oh, no, that's too Jewish. That's too Jewish. That's too Jewish. And then Seinfeld managed to sneak through the most Jew-y sitcom you could ever imagine. Only happens to be the biggest sitcom in history. Nobody cared. All those people were so worried about how will people relate to this Jewish

New York. No, it was funny. And that really was enough. Noah's nodding his head yes. I mean, do you agree with me? Yeah, no, I do agree. I must say, were I you, I'd certainly be a little bit afraid, though. Because you only need a couple of nasty people to ruin the evening. That's true. I agree with you that at the end of the day, funny is funny.

And a lot of times you can get in your own head and prevent yourself from opportunities by just assuming that people aren't going to accept something. But I also do understand the trepidation in going to middle America as a trans comic and even without giving them the benefit of the doubt, realizing that they're probably going to judge you a little bit differently at first.

Yeah, I'm also saying something else which is that... If you're funny, you can win them over. If you don't go over, it can be very tempting to blame it on the fact, oh, I was this, oh, I was that. And I've seen that. I saw one time, you know, it was a big incident down here

with a comic who had a terrible set and immediately to the audience blamed it on their ethnicity, which was absurd because someone of a similar ethnicity had just destroyed. And it was kind of painful to see how quickly they turned to that crutch of blaming it rather than looking at this, oh, I didn't go over. I wasn't funny. Or maybe I got to be twice as funny because I'm trans or whatever it is.

It can be whatever. This is human nature. Right. And I've never been too, too scared. There's one time I used to do this thing if someone didn't react very well or crossed their arms when I said I was trans, I would, like, act like I'm hitting on them. You know, I thought that. And the crowd would love that. But then one guy just, like, got really pissed off and stormed out in the middle.

And this is, like, at an Elks Lodge or something like that. I'm like, all right, this guy's got to, like. You really doubled down on the discomfort. Right, right. It's like he's got to, like, build a gun rack out of my bones or something. You know, I'm like, all right, this guy's got to like... You really doubled down on the discomfort. Right, right. It's like he's got to build a gun rack out of my bones or something. I'm like, I don't want to be... So that was the only time I was actually a little worried. What is your sexual orientation?

I'm kind of lazy at this point. I still attracted to guys, but I'm just like, it's too much effort. I'm too busy. Okay, here's something I've always been curious about. So as a woman now who's attracted to guys, are you considered homosexual because you were born a man, or are you a heterosexual transgender?

It depends who you ask. So there's no set answer on how that works. I would say I consider myself a heterosexual trans woman, but it depends who you ask. There's still people on Twitter who say, oh, you're a guy in a dress. Or they'll say, you're a fag in a dress. But is there consensus among the transgender community?

Yeah, no, that's how they look at it. Like, if a trans woman dates women, they call themselves a lesbian, you know, or vice versa. Now, if I, if my son, if my daughter were trans, and wants to be a guy, okay. But I know that a lot of girls now when they become trans,

they are cutting off their breasts. Yes. And getting hysterectomies. And getting hysterectomies. That just put a pit in your stomach, didn't it? And I'm telling you, as as a parent that would break my heart that would break my heart how would you feel about that

well you're asking the wrong person I'd be fine with it you'd be fine with it but I can see where people think that the hysterectomy is necessary if they're taking testosterone they could cause fibroids the hysterectomy would bother me less than the the boobs it's just like do you know how many trans men when they're in in high school, they wear, like, ace bandages

or they wear these really, really tight things to tie down their breasts just because they hate them so much? It's just something that they look at, and it just causes that anxiety. That's why they do it. Well, question, question, question. Yes. When... He got so excited.

Ask a tranny. Ask a tranny day at the cellar. This is fun. Um, when, when you have a gentleman that shows interest in you, as gentlemen do, uh,

well, at what, don't you know it? When do you tell them? When do you, when do you tell them? It depends on how drunk they are. When do you tell them what's,

uh, what's going on with you? Uh, chromosomally. Right. I tell them it up front. I don't, I don't even. So if I just came up to you at the bar and said, Hey, how you doing? I's going on with you chromosomally? Right, I tell them up front. So if I just came up to you at the bar and said, hey, how you doing? I'm Dan. And you said, well, I'm Jay.

Dude, dude, dude. You're not going to say it at that point, right? Right, it's like mace. No, I mean like, no. Can I buy you a drink at that point? Is it appropriate? I wouldn't. If we started talking at some point during the initial conversation, I would mention it. Very fast, very quickly, very early on.

Probably after the first drink. After the first drink. Because here's the thing. We might not click anyway. Go ahead. I was leading to the other way, which is you take your breasts off. That's heartbreaking as a father. But I suppose you can reverse that in some cosmetic way.

And people do change their minds and find that they're not happy. They do. It's not as frequent as people seem to think, though. I don't know how frequent it is. What about it is... But what about when you cut off the penis? That's irreparable. It's not being used.

She had said at the beginning of the... I was joking. She said at the beginning of the show that she would be willing to answer any question. Yes, yes. So to your... Did you or didn't you? Yeah. Do you or don't you?

Here's how I'm going to answer that question. And you're probably not going to like this answer if not. It shouldn't matter. Okay, that's the only reason why... Oh, it matters. I mean, unless I'm going to date someone, unless I'm going to have a sexual relationship. Right, well, yeah, it doesn't matter very much.

It matters what you're going to get bumped into. The sexual exchange. Exactly. But outside of that, it really doesn't matter. Well, it matters in terms of me having the inquisitive scientific mind that I have. You say you're uncomfortable. You always knew you weren't male, and you were uncomfortable with the male body. Well, what could be

more male than a penis? So if you're willing to tolerate a penis... Now, here's the thing. You guys are going to look at me so differently. Is that Kelsey Cook? I'm going to answer. You guys are going to look at me so differently in about five seconds. But yes, I'm still packing. I'm not looking at you differently. I assume you are. I actually don't look at you any differently. I thought you were.

I thought you were. I thought you were because I know that that surgery is particularly drastic and I don't think most transsexuals have had that surgery. Correct me if I'm mistaken. Yeah, it's probably about half, maybe less than half. Because it's expensive and a lot of people can't afford it. I have a question. I mean, no offense.

Do you take pride in your penis? Are you ashamed of your penis? No, like if you had a nice big penis, would you be happy about it? Well, I dressed her up tonight. We're going to the cellar, taking her for a night out. A little stroll. No, I hate it. You do hate it.

Yeah, I don't know. If I had $100,000 and I burned a hole in my pocket and I get it done tomorrow, I'd totally get it done tomorrow. But is the sensation going to be compromised? The sexual sensation. Right now you have full sexual sensation. I totally get it done tomorrow. But is the sensation going to be compromised? The sexual sensation. Right now you have

full sexual sensation. And that's the other thing. And if you had a vagina it might not be a perfect vagina. Right. And there are issues with it too. Like you have to

if you get like the fake vagina well fake you know you have to continue like what they call dilate it so you have to basically stick a dildo up there

like every day just to keep it from closing. Well, a lot of women do that anyway. Right, right, right, but you have to. It's probably not as enjoyable when you're like, I don't know. So listen, I mean... But you talk about... No, if I could just...

Go ahead, go ahead. But just on the same theme, now you would think that that might be a rich topic for humor, the fact that you have this penis that you don't much care for. Does that come up on stage? I don't because I don't want the people in the audience to, I want them to view a trans person as a trans person regardless of the genitals. And I don't want to bring it up.

I hear what you're saying, but think of the jokes. Oh, I know. Are you a comedian first or a trans first? I feel like there is some responsibility to the trans community because there are people who you can't afford it and who are judged differently. I don't want people to think it's okay to say to a trans person, do you still have a dick? It's just like, I'm fine.

I'm thick-skinned. I don't mind. I'll take it. Is there tension in the trans community between pre-op and post-op? Good question, good question. Do post-op look down on the pre-op? I don't think so. Maybe a little. Of course they do.

That's human nature to divide up. Because also at that point it's a matter of class. If you have enough money to get the surgery done. If a plane load of trans people crashed in the Andes mountains, they'd divide. They would separate. They'd separate just like Lord of the Flies.

The haves and the have-nots. The haves and the have-nots. But China's in children first. That's an interesting thing. You say you feel a responsibility to the trans community because that's kind of a heavy weight to bear. You know, as comedians, like, you know, we just do our thing. And I mean, I don't worry about any responsibility I have toward any community. And I don't think Noah does either.

Shame on you. No. Well, I mean, with me, I feel like there's... I mean, I don't know if black comedians feel that way. They might have a responsibility toward the black community. I mean, I feel a certain responsibility to the Jewish community based on there are certain things, like if I was to get a TV role or something, I don't know off the top of my something, I don't know, off the

top of my head, I don't have an example, but there might be certain things that I wouldn't do to portray Jews in a certain negative light. If they just wanted me to be a penny-pinching, nebbish, embarrassing stereotype of a Jew, I might have caused it. Yeah, I guess

I wouldn't have grounds to be upset if they offered a raise and I took it. Which would be the ultimate Jew-y thing to do. I will not do this for less than a million dollars. Oh, you're just negotiating. But lucky for you, there's enough Jews in Hollywood that any role probably wouldn't be too horrific. So you're Catholic and you're Jewish? No, I'm Jewish. Are you kidding me?

Listen to his voice. Shut up. In what world is Dan Natterman not Jewish? Well, I thought you said that at first. I didn't say that, but thank you for lending credibility to the possibility that I might be a normal human being. He's also six feet tall for those of you listening. Anyway,

so you were about to ask a question. You were about to pose a question. I don't think so. I have a question. You were about to pose a question. I don't think so. I have a question. Okay. I have a question. Noam always has questions. This is what I think about when I think about these things. I feel like when the world becomes totally accepting of homosexuals.

When and if? then basically homosexuals can probably lead a happy, enriching, satisfying life. Right. I worry that transgender, no matter how accepting society becomes, because of all the issues we're discussing, because the anatomy will never be right, nothing is ever going to be a perfect fit. It's difficult to be transgender and ever be fully happy. Is that correct? I mean, you're right that it's not perfect. Unless the technology somehow becomes so sophisticated that you could really be 100% in every way, shape, or form a woman.

Yeah, I mean, if there's cloning or putting my brain in a corpse or something. Black mirror, you can black mirror your, upload your consciousness onto the cloud and download it. Oh, yeah, there we go. Into, I don't know who you'd like to be, ideally. Can you be content? Well, that's just it. You get to, that's the goal of trans people,

getting to a point where they can live with themselves. You know, it's like, once you get to that point, you're never going to be 100% there, but can you get 90? Can you get 95? And I think a lot of people in life have a shortcoming that they'll never be able to get to, you know, but can they live with it? Well, where are you at? Are you at 90, 95, 75? I'm close. I'm close. I'm in the 90s, I think. But how can you be in the 90s if you still have a penis and you can't have sex with a man and you're attracted to men? Well, because I'm just not that interested in sex.

For me, it's not really a priority. Think about all the people who are normal by society's standards that still aren't fully satisfied or content with their own lives, and they're not even in the minority of oppressed people based on normal social standards. So it's like, you know, you're almost holding the transgender to a higher degree by asking them to be fully satisfied with life when most straight white men aren't even fully satisfied with life.

And women in general. I mean, you know, the pressures on women in general to try and look a certain way, act a certain way, act a certain way. Well, let me take it a step further. People ask you, would you care if your son were gay? And you're supposed to say, no, I wouldn't care. Gross. You say, why would you care? You can't give a reason why you would care, right?

Somebody said, would you care if your son was transgender? I would say, yeah, I wouldn't want him to be transgender because I would worry that they'll never be able to be a fully content life. That actually is the answer a lot of people would have given about gay kids 10, 20 years ago. Right. But I'm asking, is it actually mistaken vis-a-vis homosexuality? But is there actually a grain of truth to it with a lot in life that a transgender has? I don't want to upset you. No, no, no.

Not at all. Not at all. No, I think, yes, there is a grain of truth that life is harder for a trans person, no doubt. But what's the option? What's the alternative? To be miserable? No, no. I think you have to look at it that way.

Besides, and most trans people I know are happier now than before. Besides your sexual anatomy. Yes. Is there any other aspect physically that you are working on or would like, well, wish were different? Stop staring at my boobs. I wasn't staring at your boobs. Yes, they are fake. They are fake.

They're pretty good, though. Thanks, right? I got some cannons. I went in for the— Is that a C cup? It's actually a double D. Double D? No, it's not.

No, get out of here. It's bursting. Oh, wow. It was a loose shirt. Oh, I didn't see that. I went Yeah, it's a loose shirt. Not bad. I'm such an idiot. I went in for the consultation. I was like, I was thinking like a B, like big B, small C.

And he's like, eh, we'll see. But then I trusted him and I was like, well, do what you think is best. No, no, they don't look too big. No, on my frame, I think they look good. You start transitioning a little bit older, right? So that makes it more difficult to pass. If I started when I was six, forget it. I'd be a knockout.

How tall are you? 5'11". That'd be tall by what I'm standing. I think when they intervene chemically before puberty, you're not going to get the Adam's apple or the deep voice or the tallness or the body hair or the receding hairline.

All the male traits that people hate. Oh, I have another question. Yes, you in the back with the headphones. I saw Jim Norton and it made me think of a question. What is with these dudes who claim that they're like regular straight men, but they love to sleep with transgender? Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're all over it. There are dating sites for it.

What is that? I love how you looked at Jim and thought of that. He's well known for his... Jim, are your ears burning back there? Well, you know, it's a fetish like any other. Are they gay? I think they could.

Not only are they not gay, they're straighter than you are because they love women so much that they don't care if she has a penis. I feel like I'm a gateway to gayness. I think it's gay. If they still have a penis, I would consider that gay. What if they only like being on top of a trans woman?

Or only like getting BJs from trans women? I don't know. I mean, some, like, some just This is the existential crisis of 2018. They're face down within minutes, you know. But you must be, I mean, he's human.

Humans naturally want to have intimacy. And a straight man without that, any kind of fetish, whatever it is, is going to be turned off by you having a penis. Or he might even be turned off even if you had a prosthetic, whatever it is, vagina. You know, just the knowledge might.

So you might find yourself hooking up with these guys who have these fetishes, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, that's like most of it. I'm very careful who I date. You said you're attracted to men, right? Yeah. Would you date a trans,

a woman who transitioned to being a man but still had her vagina? His vagina. Absolutely. That would be perfect. That would be that. But there are

parts lined up. You want to get your mind blown? There are couples like that where the trans woman impregnated the trans man and they had kids. Wow.

I think I saw, I think I, yeah. Doesn't freak me out, but that's interesting. It's different, right and they had kids. Wow. I think I, I think I, yeah. Doesn't freak me out, but that's interesting. It's different, right? It's different. But no,

I mean, like, so then the trans man gives birth. The problem is like, here's, and women will overlook like a trans man with a vagina. Like they,

they do nine times out of 10 guys. So we're very uptight in general. You know, I mean, guys in general don't want to be like, you know, growing up, like if you're called a,

called a fag, that's the worst thing ever. You know, women, I'm not gay. I'm want to be like, you know, growing up, like, if you're called a fag, that's the worst thing ever, you know? Women are just much— I'm not gay. I'm not gay. Women have much bigger hearts. Oh, totally. Totally. And, like, you see— They have souls.

Yeah, you're like—like, you see, like, a cop get shot in the head. Like, there was some—I think it was on 60 Minutes or something one day, this cop—they were newlyweds. They just got married. Like, two days after they got married, this cop got shot in the head as a vegetable. This woman sat by his hospital bed for 35 years, you know, taking care of him, you know. Can you picture a man doing that? No. Are you kidding me?

I would hire a nurse and be done with him. Right. The man would be there to try and hit on the nurses, and that's it. That's the only reason. So, are you still, are you, so, in that nature, do you have the feminine devotion nature, or are you still a dude? I haven't found out yet. I haven't been, I mean. Well, anyway, that sounds or are you still a dude? I haven't found out yet. That sounds like you're still a dude to me.

I mean, it sounds like you suspect. But the thing is, I really have very little interest in carrying on a relationship, sexual or otherwise. I have a low sex drive. And if it happens, I would like to think that I'd be the sort of person who stands by their man, so to speak. Well, I think Noam is talking about a pretty extraordinary case. Not to say that all women would do what you've just described, standing by a bed for 35 years. But women do. Women really do.

Women can be amazing. If I were able to cash in on the guy's pension, maybe. Now, I don't know if you want to at some point talk about Mrs. Maisel. Yeah, I want to talk to Noah. What a perfect transition. Well, transition's transition. Can be rough. It used to be Mrs. Maisel. Yeah, I want to talk to Noah. What a perfect transition. Well, transition can be rough. It used to be Mr. Maisel. It's called The Amazing

Wonderful World of Mrs. Maisel. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel on Amazon Prime. This is yet another... There's crashing, of course. Well, Louis is no longer on the air, but this is yet another show about stand-up comedy. You'd think there's enough already. Well, it is, but it's different, but this is yet another show about stand-up comedy. You'd think there's enough already.

Well, it is, but it's different. It is very different than all of them. In one, it's an hour-long dramedy as opposed to a 30-minute sitcom. And it's about a woman whose husband left her and she started doing stand-up. And actually 90% of the show takes place offstage separate from her pursuing a career in comedy it's actually much more about the fi the family dynamics in the world of 1950s upper west side jewish manhattan than it is about the world of stand-up comedy so so there's a lot of there's a lot going into the show that's different than the rest of the shows about stand-up and another big difference is to my knowledge she's the only character out of all the shows of stand-up who didn't actively come into the show wanting to be a comedian. If you watch the show, she kind of accidentally stumbles into it.

Whereas Crashing is about Pete's kind of journey and quest to become the comedian he's always wanted to be. Louis already was a comedian in his show. Who stars in your show? Rachel Brosnahan plays Midge Maisel, the title character. Is she well-known? No. Her big break was she was a prostitute on House of Cards for a while. That's where people knew her from.

Oh, with Doug Stamper, the one that... I didn't watch House of Cards. Rachel was the name of... Rachel Brazahan, yeah. I think her name was Rachel on the show, too, on House of Cards. Probably. I didn't watch House of Cards, but I heard it was a brutal death, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think her name was Rachel on the show, too. That's her. The biggest name on the show, her father is played by Tony Shalhoub. Yeah, Tony Shalhoub. He's Lebanese, I believe, or something of that nature. Yes, he is. Monk. Monk.

Oh, okay, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it is tangentially about stand-up, and certainly as the season goes on and she gets a little bit better on stage, it's more about that, but it's definitely not a show about stand-up. So, when you were at one of these streaming shows, do they tell you your ratings? No, we know nothing about how many people viewed it. But I think it's disconcerting. You can see how many five-star ratings it got by Amazon users, and it won a Golden Globe,

so critically, the acclaim is there. But we actually have no idea how many people did or did not watch it well the guy that works at the mailboxes etc which is no longer called mailboxes etc but it's a similar type of store that i go to across from me he knows i'm a comedian because i send comedian type stuff there sure but anyway he said have you seen mrs mazels he was all excited like i hadn't seen it. So he's watching it. I was biased, obviously, working on the show. I had a feeling it was a good show.

I was reading and helping write the scripts and enjoyed it. But I had no idea it was going to take off culturally the way it did. And I will say it was a perfect storm politically for the show. I mean, it aired literally in the heart of the Me Too movement. It's a very female-centric, strong female lead character show. So I think it resonated with where we were at in society at the time it was put out. I gotta watch this show. I've been binge-watching Crashing.

It's pretty good. Yeah. Do you like Crashing? Obviously you're going to say you do. Let's face it, you couldn't really say you didn't like it. No, no, no. I do like Crashing. Their elements of the portrayal of a beginning open mic comic that kind of ascended too quickly.

It's one of those things that's an inside baseball thing, where as a comedian you would realize how unrealistic it is for Pete in an open mic comic to suddenly walk into a place like the Cellar and get on stage. But I do think it is a good show. I do enjoy watching it. I think the people I know are great in it. You watch either of these

shows, Jay? I don't have HBO or Amazon Prime so I've watched like I have watched a couple streamed a couple of Crashing.

I don't have either of those things either. Crashing is really good. I just thought I'd watch it this week. I think Artie is great in it. Artie is great in it. When is your episode?

My episode was the first episode of the season two. Oh, I saw that. That's it for me. That's it for you? Pete crashed your birthday party, right? I didn't see it. And Rachel's on that one too, right?

You didn't see it? Is that because you don't like watching yourself? I don't like to watch me. Yeah, I agree. But I heard good things. Although, you know, my part I think was a lot bigger than ended up being shown. But in any case. Well, how would you know?

You refused to watch. I can tell you. You were the star of episode would you know? You refuse to watch. I get the sense. You can kind of tell according to the tweets that you're hearing. Did they give you a bunch of lines or did they just say, be Dan Natterman?

They give you lines and they tell you don't pay too much attention to these lines. Crashing is very improv based. They give you a bunch of lines and they tell you don't pay too much attention to these lines. Crashing is very improv based. They give you a bunch of lines and they say, but these are suggestions more than anything else. And you improv it. And you do it a million times. And sometimes Judd will shout something out or the director, whoever he might be. Judd doesn't direct every episode.

But he might yell out from the back of the room, say this. And then you say that. Well, I'm going to try this, and then you try that. Are you comfortable acting? Are you comfortable acting? I'm like a fish to water in the acting game. And I'd like to do more of it, because stand-up, as you don't know,

you may know, but I don't think you do know, I never liked it. Never liked it. Really? Very stressful. Very stressful. Woody Allen's feeling. So then what'd you get into it for? To get out liked it. Really? Never liked it. Really? Very stressful. Very stressful. Woody Allen. Woody Allen's feeling.

So then what'd you get into it for? To get out of it. I thought I was going to be a TV star. I looked at Seinfeld and Roseanne and all these people. Figured, all right, I get my 20 minutes of funny shit. And they got their 20 minutes of funny shit. And now you're just in too deep? I'm so deep.

Also, the dream is still alive. Sure. I still... Still waiting for the Dan Adaman show. You know, the one thing about this business that it does give Also, the dream is still alive. Sure. I still, you know. Still waiting for the Dan Adaman show. You know, the one thing about this business that it does give you is the dream. Like, if I were a lawyer, even if I were a very successful lawyer, the best I could hope for is being a lawyer. And that doesn't excite me.

I'm sure it excites some people. It doesn't excite me. I'd have no chance of greatness. Now I got a chance. I'll be a slim one. So you still don't like it, though. 15 minutes from now, you got a set. You're not excited about going to hit the stage.

I don't have a set 15 minutes. No, no, I'm saying theoretically. No, no. I like to come here. They're opening a room in Vegas, and that sounds like fun. I love Vegas. I don't enjoy headlining. I don't enjoy the long where it's all me and it's very nervous.

Go ahead, Jay. You had a question. I was curious if you liked writing scripts and screenplays and that. I have done that. Yeah, I have and with no great success. Give it to Judd. Give it to Judd. It's not that simple.

I'm sure he loves that. It's not that simple. Yeah, you popped on screen episode one. He's waiting for it. I remember you. You're funny. Read this. So you love Vegas, Noah? Oh. I remember you. You're funny. Read those. So you love Vegas, Noah?

Oh, I love Vegas. But I'm a gambler. Did you know that the Comedy Cellar is opening up a room in Las Vegas? I did. I did know that, and I was excited to see that. Well, okay. First of all, a few things to say. You know, we also have a Comedy Central pilot going on here.

Right. And, you know, I had a lot of beef. It wasn't the people at Comedy Central. The people shooting the pilot. Because of how I wanted the comedy seller to look. And on Crashing, they have these shots of the comedy seller or the comedian. And they're so good. And you feel like you're in the room.

And that's what I wanted the TV show to look like. And you already saw on the TV show it does not look like that? Just for, you know. And they would not do it. Just for the non-regular listeners or the new listeners, we have a pilot. The Comedy Cellar has a pilot with Comedy Central wherein we show clips of comedians

talking about the week's events on stage. Think best week ever, but in a stand-up format. Is it scripted or no? I mean, do they know ahead of time what they're going to talk about? The comics write jokes based on the week's events, be they... Like a monologue. So no, it's already cut up and done. It already, you know for sure it's not going to look the way you want it to look.

Well, the pilot, yes, but maybe when they go to series, if they go to series. But what got me is that what is the... You know, it's like, I hate that expression, think outside the box, but it's like nobody wants to think with some sort of risk involved, so they don't want to stray too far from the way they've seen it done by somebody else, you know? But it seems to me you just look at Crash and you see how, like,

you really feel that you're in the room with this comedian. It's tight and it's claustrophobic and it's awesome me you just look at Crash and you see how you really feel that you're in the room with his comedians. It's tight and it's claustrophobic and it's awesome. And I think a TV show like that would be great. But anyway, I suppose I'm wrong. I don't know. Noam, unfortunately, has, for the first time, I guess, in his life, he's always been the boss. Had to take direction from someone. It's horrible.

It's horrible. How do you deal with it? He has bosses. And he has people. They're putting up the money. They make the rules, even though has bosses. It's horrible. How do you deal with it? He has bosses. And he has people. They're putting up the money. They make the rules, even though it's Noam's Club. And my idea was my idea, too.

But anyway. But that's like any screenwriter that knows, you know, that their script gets completely changed. I want to be Sylvester Stallone. The notes from the executives.

Sylvester Stallone wouldn't sell out for Rocky. He had that script. He wasn't going to do it until Lesley 11. But you didn't negotiate that in your contract. I know, I know. I made a lot of mistakes

in the last year. And then Vegas, I think, is shaping up to be... You just got back from Vegas, didn't you? What a dumb idea, opening in Vegas. Are you being serious? Oh, totally serious. Why? Because it's just a lot of pressure, like I've never known before, and a lot of

money, and I have... How often are you going to go out there to check a lot of pressure like I've never known before and a lot of money and I have... How often are you going to go out there to check on the room? I don't know the answer to that and I... Who's your Bugsy Siegel? Who are you sending to watch the Vegas... Outside Steve is going to go out there for a while.

Okay. I just don't know that anybody's going to come. Anybody in the audience. Speaking of Bugs, you see, I think about that. Welcome to Flamingo. Somebody get us a fuse

and there's a leak, you know. Sure. Sorry, we're going to have to close for renovations when nobody shows up. What casino?

Sorry, what casino is it? At the Rio Casino. And it's owned by Caesars and Penn and Teller are there and it's not the most upscale casino, but it's okay, and it's pretty busy. I just don't know that anybody's going to come. And if they do come, and it's successful, I don't know if I'm going to care.

I don't know what I was thinking. I have three kids at home, a new baby. What do I want to be bothered with Vegas for? I mean, was this idea out of nowhere, or did someone bring it to you? I'm going to tell you where it came from, and I'm not proud of it. Ray Ellis. And it's not like me. I was in Vegas one time, and I saw stupid Robert Kelly up his big mug

on that huge jumbo screen out in front of Caesars Palace or wherever it was, with an ad for his show, wherever his show was. It was at one of the comic, maybe it was at the improv. I don't know. I don't remember where it was. And I said to myself,

fuck, I, comedy sellers should be up there. Like I should have, I should have that, you know? And I'm not ever really driven by that sort of thing. But for some reason I said,

why, why are these, why are these schlubs, you know, who I know don't run their rooms with the integrity that we try to, who don't always have a great show, who put checks down during his, but why are they like the apparent top of the heap?

You know, cause that's what it appears when you go to Vegas, they must be the, and why am I just a, you know, this is, this is actually might've even to Vegas. They must be the, and why am I just a, you know, this is actually, might have even been before the Underground was open, but we were just, and so I got the idea. So I started reaching out to some casinos, and they wanted ridiculous deals. So I left one offer on the table, which was like less than half of what the deal they

asked for was, and I thought that was the end of it, and I walked away. And then they came back and said, okay, we'll take it. And I said, oh, I never thought that would happen. And then I said, okay, I'll take it. And then after that, you know, I had a baby and another baby, like my life kind of changed. So, but anyway, so the Genesis was from a bad place, which was kind of a little bit ego or it wasn't money. And, and that's the worst thing. And that's past. I don't have that urge anymore because we've had other things, other successes and a TV show would be all that. Plus I wouldn't have the headache of running a room, right?

So a Comedy Central show would be way more happy. So anyway, so that's it. But I have really good relationship with the people I'm working with at Caesars and the room is going to be beautiful. It is going to be the best room. And if it's, and the comedians are going to like playing there. And it could be

a lot of good things about it. And if, you know, if it makes money, that'd be nice too, but I don't know. I don't know. You know,

I forgot to order the roast chicken again. God damn it. Order the roast chicken. Because the roast chicken, as you don't know this, Jay, but the roast chicken

takes 20, 30 minutes to prepare. That's your only fucking answer about my Vegas thing? Well, we'll get to your Vegas thing, but first thing, so I prefer to order the roast chicken in the middle of the podcast so it's ready by the end of the podcast. There's no chicken in Vegas, Dan.

But wouldn't you know it, I always forget to do it. Is Sarah f***ing the waitress today? Could I have the roast chicken? You know how I like it with the horseback potatoes in the bed. Okay, now. Oh, you know Jim? Yes. How do you know Jim? Yes. How do you know Jim?

Don't answer. No, she's really funny. We've done gigs together. I actually want to do more gigs with Jay. She's great. So you recommend it. Well. How come nobody recommended her to us?

Because I've only seen her here a couple of times. And if I saw her hanging out here, I would have recommended it to you in a second. Yeah. I wasn't sure exactly where she was. Yeah. But she's really funny. I'm going to look. There we go.

What's the process? First, you look her up online. And then, and only then. First is on back page. And then if only that. Come on now. No, don't be silly. Be careful what site you look up.

Whatever your site is. Don't just Google my name. You look her up. You watch her YouTube video. Then and only then, if he likes what he sees, he will call you in for an audition. Him and Esty will call you in for an audition. But I hope that it, you know, I'm rooting for you because you seem like a nice young lady.

Thank you very much. We need a transgender comic here, that's for sure. So people stop calling me a bigot. I do think it would be interesting. I do think, you know, Noam often pooh-poohs the notion of diversity in comedy for diversity's sake. I pooh-pooh diversity in every of diversity in comedy for diversity's sake, and I hear him, and I...

I pooh-pooh diversity in every aspect of life. But in comedy, there is some value to diversity because intrinsic in the diversity is a different point of view as a comedian. In other words, obviously, a black comic will talk about different things than a white comic, and a trans comic will talk about different things

than a non-trans comic. So there is some intrinsic utility to diversity. True or false? It's a slippery slope. You bring in one trans comic, then you'll need gender-neutral bathrooms that'll start filtering in. I have a problem with diversity being a goal.

Well, I hear what you're saying. Hey, if you don't think I'm funny, I completely understand it's a business. It's a business. It's a business. And if I'm not funny, I should quit and go back to working at Trader Joe's or whatever. It's like the whole point is to be funny. I'm with you that funny over everything, funny first.

But different points if you are. Diversity, just for diversity's sake, is no good. But I will tell you, when I'm on the road, like if I headline, I'm thrilled if either my host or my feature aren't just a straight white man. Because just the idea of a different point of view for a little bit of time, for the audience to get a break on perspective, it does make me feel a little bit better going on stage afterwards. Well, listen, you're describing something which obviously can't, you know, I can't be

denied. And an analogy, like, if you're presenting a musical performance, you don't want to have 10 ballads in a row. So anything can be monotonous. So is that diversity for diversity? No, that's just you need to mix it up on the show. You need to mix things up. But I think when we're discussing diversity with a political connotation,

we're discussing something much different than that. You can get that diversity and difference of point of views from six different white guys, too. That is true. Or six different black guys. And I just don't like the fact, listen, I said this before, when I was a kid, when I was a kid, you know, bigotry was the enemy. And one evidence, one possible evidence that you were bigoted was, well, how come you only have white guys? You know, that looks like

you probably are being discriminating in some way. You're probably discriminating in some way. So diversity was kind of evidence that you were doing the right thing. Now it's shifted. Now it's, we don't care really anymore whether you do the right thing. As a matter of fact,

even if you are doing the right thing and picking the sixth funniest thing, that's not okay. Diversity is the goal. It's not about playing everything straight up and merit. It's not about merit anymore. It's about diversity. And I'm against that, except, of course, in the NBA, where nobody has a beef if everybody on the court is black, right? You want to feel that question? Why is that?

Nobody has a beef, but it's also no secret that the NBA is head over heels about any white North American basketball star they can get. But they won't play them unless they deserve to play. And I don't want to play them either unless they can play. But there's a lot of pressure for me to play them. There is a difference between being overtly as diverse as possible and not being discriminatory.

So you can still be not... This club isn't. You've had women, you've had black comics, you've been more women than most clubs probably. So it's clear that you're not being discriminatory. If you don't discriminate, there should be diversity. So I don't think anyone would have a beef. I know there's that article, but I don't think anyone would have a beef necessarily with this,

with you if you didn't hire someone because they were trans, you know? I get that, 100%. Look, I take pride in the diversity when I see it because it gives me kind of a happy feeling about the human race. You know, it's nice to see everybody just mixed without regard to sex or color, just all hanging out and socializing and performing together. That's nice. I'm not a monster, you know?

Yeah, the soft side of Noam comes out. It's beautiful. But I want that to happen for the right reason. I don't want that to happen because I'm a fucking fraud. I don't want to come to you and say, listen, I booked you because you're trans. And I don't want that either. Well and say, listen, I booked you because you're trans. And I don't want that either. Well, never mind.

I take that back. I mean, do you hear the stuff that's going on in Google now where they're like, I mean, they're turning themselves into pretzels to get diversity. I'm like, why do they have to have diversity in Google as long as they're not discriminating against anybody? That's the one where the white guys are suing them, right? Google or Amazon? There's white guys suing. There's people from every angle in this. There's a story from every angle in Google.

But the point being is like, nobody actually suspects Google of being like, we only want Asians. We only want white guys. We presume Google is probably hiring what they think are the best candidates without regard. So if it turns out to be 60% Asian, why is that a problem? Why is that more of a problem

than the NBA turning out to be 80% black? Why do they have to limit Asians at Harvard? If Harvard turns out to be 75% Asian, aren't they humans? Aren't they Americans? Who cares if they're Asian? It bothers me. We talk about this ad nauseum on this show.

That is a common theme that we do. Just stop judging it because you can never break out of it. And this becomes the way my, I mean, I see my children

are beginning to pick up on this. Like, you know, I don't want them thinking that way. I mean, there are, the one thing that I see, like, I agree with you

100%, but if you see like the reaction that, like there wasn't really a black superhero before Black Panther. And then, but but it had to be a good movie. But now black kids can look at that and think, wow, a superhero that looks like me? And representation is a great thing, but if they would have put out a shitty movie, it wouldn't have defeated the purpose. It would have been terrible.

But it was a great movie. Well, I don't think it's a great movie, but I definitely don't have a problem. Let me tell you about Black Panther. I don't have any problem with Black Panther. Well, this is the irony you kind of hit on. On the one hand, of course, a black child always seeing all white superheroes, that's not a good thing. Right, or a black girl having to play with a white Barbie doll, that's not a good thing. You know what I mean? It's like... On the other hand, it's not quite as bad.

It's a worse thing now than it might be if we didn't focus so much on race. Oh, yeah. If we didn't force these kids to define themselves so much in terms of their race,

then the fact that a black superhero was a black superhero wouldn't be a... But you're right. It's a good movie, but it's not a great movie. It's getting a lot of... I thought it was... Let me tell you why it's not a great movie. It's getting a lot of...

Let me tell you why it's not a great movie. It wasn't my favorite Marvel movie. Thor Ragnarok. Wait, before you go. Spoiler alert. Black Panther dies at the end. It's tragic. Any movie where the main character gets thrown in a fight to the death,

and rather than kill him, they throw him over a waterfall and expect us to think, oh, he's dead. I mean, it's not a great movie. Oh, I don't think they thought they were fooling anybody by making people think we thought he was dead.

That was like, what, two-thirds of the way through? They knew it's like, all right, we have a half hour left. He's obviously alive. It's such a trite device, as was the... They took a whole James Bond thing,

like the Q thing with the technology. I'm not a superhero comic book guy, but I enjoyed the movie. I enjoyed it. By the way, you want to hear a deep theory here? It's not great. I haven't just seen it. Shuri, the girl, the 16-year-old girl, is going to be the new Iron Man. That's my theory.

Oh, really? That's not bad. Robert Downey Jr. is probably going to die off. Yeah, she could win for Tony Stark. No, Tony Stark's going to die, right? Robert Downey Jr. You got to go. Noah has to go perform.

Go ahead. I liked, I give it a 3.5 Black Panther. Apropos of what you were saying is that kids, we shouldn't make them identify racially. I'm wondering how much of it might be innate. Very recently, there was a viral picture of a young girl, two-year-old girl, staring at Michelle Obama. Did you read about that? No. Staring at Barack Obama.

A painting of Michelle Obama. Don't tell me it's fake. Don't tell me it's fake. I'm not telling you it's fake. The point is that she's two years old. Why was she staring at that picture of Michelle Obama? Was it because innately? Well, innately, she said, the girl thought she was like some princess or whatever

and so Michelle met her in real life so the point is this girl is two years old she hasn't had time necessarily maybe she has to pick up the racial nature of our society oh no they pick it up but might it be intrinsically

when she saw somebody in a world that's 90% white whatever it is on TV etc she saw somebody that looked like her in 90% white, whatever it is, on TV, etc. She saw somebody that looked like her in an art gallery. And innately, without being told that this woman resembles you, she innately... It definitely has an innate aspect to it, for sure. I don't think it, too. I noticed with my own kids, and I really tried to protect them from... My friend Rosalyn,

who's always at the house. You know Rosalyn. Of course I know her. She's black and she's outspoken. She's always using the N-word and she's always saying about black this and black that and white folks this and white folks that. I'm like, Rosalyn, and I used to get mad. Please, I don't want my kids to... And my kids, until they were like five years old,

four or five years old, had no... If somebody would say, the black guy, they'd look at you like, what do you mean, his pants? They had no idea that there were different races. Only recently, I think I told it on the show, my daughter Mila described her boyfriend, her little first grade boyfriend, as black. She has a little black boyfriend named Jackson. It was the first time I had ever heard her, that it was part of her worldview that there were different races. And it actually was heartbreaking.

It's like, you know, she didn't have that naivete anymore. But yeah, of course, it's innate. It's also, it's not just race, culture, you know. I still think it's a great picture. Humans divide. It's a very cute picture. She's got her mouth open. She's seen something she's never seen before.

Staring at that painting of Michelle Obama. It's quite cute. But now it's like she has a role model. What did you think of that painting? The Michelle Obama painting. I don't know. Be honest. Any of those presidential paintings, I'm like, all right, you don't need to, you know, whatever. I did not like the Michelle Obama.

I liked Barack's. Yes. Did you? Yeah. I was like, it's a you don't need to, you know, whatever. I did not like the Michelle. I like Barack's. Yes. Did you? Yeah. I was like, it's a little weird. Who, Barack's? All the leaves and stuff. I was like, it was a little weird.

Well, this is what I think. No, you know what? You make an interesting point. I thought both of them. I'm glad that African-American artists did both of those, by the way. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Yeah, no, that's fine. And see, that's the thing.

I don't care. I mean, I'm happy. If they went African-American artists, that's fine. I just wish it didn't matter. In any case. Oh, true, two, 100%. In any case, but I did think that as an aesthetic matter, both the paintings were so outside the style of everything that had come before that it was a pretty ballsy statement, you know?

And I'm not criticizing that, but I could also, I'm really not criticizing it, but I don't know if I would have done that. I think I would have tried to split the difference somehow, only because I would not want to stick out like a sore thumb so clearly. Did you see what Hannity wrote about how he thought that one of the veins on Obama's forehead looked like sperm? Oh, no. But having said that, I thought that the achievement of the portrait of Obama was really good. I mean, you look close up in that painting. It looks like him.

It's detailed. It struck me. It's like, that's the work of a talented man. The Michelle Obama one, that just did not seem like a good painting to me at all. It doesn't look like her. It's not pleasing. It's just... The only time I saw her picture was the two-year-old's stereo.

So it was like a sideways view. Yeah, that's the only time I've seen that picture. So I haven't looked at it up close. I'm going to show it to you. Talk for a second. I'm going to show it to you right now, and then we'll sign off. But that artist who did Barack's, his other works, amazing. So, yeah, I'm not surprised.

Yeah, that was a good painting of Obama. Michelle Obama. And it's different. It's in your face a little bit. You know, it's like, by the way, this is me, you know, which is cool. Yeah, I... He was... Like him or not, at least he had a sense of humor.

I thought he was a great president, and I voted for him both times. Obama? Yeah. Oh, he has a fantastic sense of humor. And such a a sense of humor. I thought he was a great president and I voted for him both times. Obama? Yeah. Oh, he has a fantastic sense of humor. And such a great sense of humor. No, I'm not. Our asshole now doesn't have it. Doesn't think he was a great president,

but he had a good sense of humor. All right. Looks a little more like Beyonce than Michelle. Would you look at this and say, oh, this is a national, this is an artist who should be picked among all the artists in the world

to do a portrait of. This is not, I mean mean I know and does that look like is that the way Michelle Obama does that capture her it just doesn't it simply just doesn't

I defy anybody to tell me it does and this is the world we're living in I'm taking a huge risk of being called a racist by saying this. You know that people are judging me in a racial way because I'm saying I don't like this portrait done by an African American artist of Michelle Obama. I'm supposed, I have to like it.

Black Panther, I can't only say it's a good movie. It has to be the best movie ever. Otherwise, I'm suspect. I'm suspect. I just think it was a really good movie. But it wasn't as good as X-Men to me. It wasn't as good as... Just lie.

Just tell everyone you're voting for Oprah, then go into the booth and do what you want. You know what? There you go. Then everyone's going to be like... I think Oprah, as opposed to a lot of things, Oprah has done some amazing things. Like, you cannot fuck with Oprah.

Are you overcompensating now to try and make sure people don't think you're a racist? I've always said this about Oprah. Because I'm all... Oprah started out this little talk show. Yeah, in Chicago, right? Yeah, when this Phil Donahue was the king appealing to white ladies at home during the day. And again, talking about selling the country short. This black lady hooked in.

Overweight black lady, too. Overweight black lady hooked in emotionally with white female America, Republican America you know so deeply that Phil Donahue became a historical, part of the historical record

that's the kind of accomplishment of merit that nobody can question and that's what's so nice about it, you don't have to wonder whether Oprah got her success because she was black or not. No, you can't say a fucking word about it. It was the real thing.

They say I'm the trans Oprah, so I don't know. You agree with that about Oprah, right? No, I agree that she's a trans Oprah. No, no. Thank you. I mean, that is pure merit. Yeah, Oprah's a phenomenon. Sure. That is, I mean, that's pure merit. Yeah, Oprah's a phenomenon. Sure. I mean, that's an amazing accomplishment. I like Phil. I like Phil.

Good deal. I like the impressions of Phil. But you can imagine. Daryl Hammond's impressions. You can imagine some executives saying, oh, no, these white ladies are not going to want to watch this black lady, blah, blah, blah. And this was before things became viral. It bubbled up. That's an amazing.

So that's the credit to her talent. So I would never dismiss Oprah at all. I still don't want to see her movie, though. It bubbled up. That's an amazing... That's the credit to her talent. I would never dismiss Oprah at all. I still don't want to see her movie, though. Wrinkle in Time. I'm not interested in that. She's in it? She's in it. She produced it, I think. She's a good actress. She was good in The Color Purple. You can't say anything about

Oprah. The only thing I don't like about her is when she has a musical guest on and they cut to her face and she's doing that, you know, like, grooving face, how much she loves the music. And why does she have to be

on the cover of every one of her magazines? Yeah, that's a little egotistical, yeah, yeah. But if you have a teen magazine someday, you can be on there. True, true. All right,

are we going to wrap it up? I think we'll wrap it up there. Yeah, it's a good time to wrap it up. I do recommend everybody go see Black Panther. My kids loved it. Why would you recommend a movie you didn't think was that great? You see, it was good.

I enjoyed it. It's getting this kind of, because it's a cultural, I think it's just getting a little extra credit because of the politics of it. I think it's not quite as good as that. That happens. What was that movie that was the first woman? Well, Wonder Woman

wasn't as great of a movie as Thor Ragnarok, I thought, but it was more important. Thor Ragnarok was better, yeah. Yeah, I think socially is more important and it'll be known

10 years from now, but I think Thor Ragnarok was a better movie. And people will continue to watch the, what was the movie that won the Oscar was the first,

Hurt Locker. Right, right. It was the first female director of a war movie or whatever. Nobody has ever watched that, won the Oscar, whatever. Nobody has ever watched that. Won the Oscar Best Picture. Nobody

has ever watched that movie again. It was not a good movie. It was just from time to time, you know, it's just things get over on the politics of it. I mean, they barely even show it on cable. If they do, I bet you nobody watches it. Yeah, it's on Netflix. I still haven't watched it. Hurt Locker. Yeah. It's a totally mean...

I mean, Black Panther is way better than Hurt Locker. Oh, yeah. So that's all I'm saying, but I'm happy for the... I'm not a curmudgeon. I'm happy for a post-racial America. I want to hear Mike Lawrence's take on Black Panther. Yeah, I would like to hear it. He's so funny on Facebook. He's great. And Twitter, too.

His Twitter page is... When he talks wrestling. He probably echoes his Twitter on Facebook. What did he say, I think he probably, when he talks wrestling. He probably just echoes his Twitter on Facebook. What did he say that was so funny? Instead of focusing on Sir Mix-a-Lot's fetish for big butts,

maybe we should focus on his, how honorable his honesty is. I like big butts and I can't hold on. Yes, yes, yes, I remember seeing that.

Something like that. It was so funny. I didn't do it justice, but follow Mike Lawrence. He's one of the funniest. All right. Goodbye, everybody. All righty.

All right, Mark. Jay, we're going to check you out. Hi, Jim. We're do it justice. He's great. Follow Mike Lawrence. He's one of the funniest. All right. Goodbye, everybody. All righty. Thank you very much. We're going to check you out. Hi, Jim. We're wrapping it up, Jim. Oh, okay, yeah. I had a good time on my set. All right. Good night, everybody.

Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night. Good night.

Good night.