The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - On Re-Opening Dangerfield's Comedy Club - Noam Gives Advice

Episode Date: November 16, 2023

Mark Yosef is an attorney, comic and the new owner of Dangerfield's Comedy Club.

This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of New York's world-famous comedy cellar, coming at you on Sirius XM 99, Raw Dog, and wherever you get your podcasts. Dan Aderman here. I'm a comic. I work the comedy cellar, among other clubs. We're here with Perry Alashenbrand. She is our producer, I guess, our booker. She books the guests.

Producer. I've been doing so much production work the last few weeks. I've been editing. I've been whatever. That lovely voice the last few weeks. I've been editing. I've been whatever. That lovely voice is Mr. Noam Dorman. He's the owner of the world famous comedy cellar. He's not like Froggy, right? But it's not COVID.

Okay. Noam, well, I was going to ask you about, Noam and I just missed each other in Vegas. I was out there as you, as regular listeners know, I was out there doing a roofing convention and was quite well received by the roofing community. I think I roof and cough. Pertussis, I think it's. Noam went the next week

to see Skankfest. I don't know if he has anything to say about Skankfest. And I assume while you were out there, you were, you know, you were checking. Checking on the casinos. Check checking on the Comedy Cellar Vegas room. I don't know.

Maybe you weren't, but I assume you were. If so, if you have anything to say about either Skankfest or the Comedy Cellar Vegas. Yeah, I was very, very impressed with Skankfest. I didn't stay that long at any of the shows, but that's just the way I am. But it's an incredible achievement that those guys have achieved. Big crowds, multiple rooms, huge energy in the air. It's a real thing. Now, for those who don't know, Skank Fest,

there's a group of comics. I guess they call themselves the Legion of Skanks or something. I don't really know much about it, but these are comics, I guess, what they have in common. I guess they call themselves the Legion of Skanks or something. I don't really know much about it, but these are comics, I guess, what they have in common. I guess they're kind of dirty, I guess. I mean, what characterizes a skank? We're the skank fest genre of comedy, if anything. Is there a through line?

Well, I don't want to get it wrong because if you get it wrong, you could be accused of saying something bad about them which is the last thing I'd ever want to do because I'm so impressed with what they've accomplished but I think it's a Rogan-y type group. A lot of these guys are on Rogan all the time which is that's a wide

net. First of all they say they're not woke, right? They say a lot of things that you're not supposed to say. They're politically kind of libertarian, maybe. Maybe not. I don't know if that applies to all of them, but definitely applies to some of them. And I'd say that the audience is mostly male.

At least it was in Vegas. Who are the main skanks? Is it Big Jay Ogerson, Ari Shaffir, I guess? I don't know. Luis Gomez. I can answer that for you. Luis Gomez, Ari Shaffir. Go ahead, Mike.

Legion of Skanks is their podcast. It's Dave Smith, Luis Gomez, and Big J. O'Crescent. Dave Smith, by the way, is somebody I wanted to have on this podcast. I don't know if he has any interest in doing it. He is a comic that has become sort of a political guy. I mean, there's a few. Dave Smith, I think, is angry at me. Why?

Because. You don't use him? Would you use him? Would you use them? Should you use them? Listen, this is the thing. These guys are... I mean, humans... What am I trying to say?

There are some people out there who, when we had a chance to book them, we didn't book them. And we got that wrong in some way or right, and the reality has changed. And some of them have become very big. We talked about Nate Borgazzi a few weeks ago. So Dave Smith is somebody that we did look at,

and for whatever reason, we didn't book him. A huge miss, huge, huge, huge miss. But huge insofar as now he's got a big following, but his following is largely politically based, I think. Another huge miss we had was Tim Dillon, who I did look at one time, and I thought he was good, but we didn't book him. And then he just blew up,

and I feel like these guys, no matter what, have a little bitterness towards the place, towards me, towards Esty. I don't know. And that's unfortunate because I'm quite admiring of all of them. It's not like you hear these stories about, what's the name who used to book the comic strip? Lucian. Lucian, who would not book somebody and tell them, you'll never make it, you should be a writer.

That was never mine. Well, he told me I should be a writer, and I think he was on to something. Whatever. So I understand these things can lead, like Mitzi told Gary Shandling, performing's not for you. Like that kind of thing. That will leave a mark. But I don't think I've ever been guilty of that

any time I've ever looked at somebody who was, especially somebody with a buzz around him like Dave Smith or Tim Dillon. Shane Gillis was another one that we didn't see right away. Australian accent's one of those accents that's funny every single time. You could be in the middle of a fucking tragedy if you heard an Australian accent, you'd still be like... You know what I mean?

Like if there was like an Australian guy in the office on 9-11... Oh fuck, look out! Oh no, there's another one, get down! Oh fuck, it's hot up here, gonna have to jump out. No! Alright. All right. That was a 9-11 joke. That's an applause break.

Bravo! It was never like I said, oh, these guys will never make it or whatever. It was just like, well, they didn't have such a good set. We'll take another look at some point. Well, they don't have a good set. They don't have a good set. I mean, is there anything else you can – is there any way – can you blame yourself for not using somebody that didn't have a good set?

Is there something you should have seen? Some people get a big following not because they're crushing but because they're touching a nerve politically. Is that something that you'll factor in in the future when you see a conversation? Yeah, I mean, it's possible that I could see somebody not have a good set, but I would say, but you know, that particular bit was really funny. Let's give him another shot, whatever. Listen, I don't do that much auditioning. Usually it's Esty.

But whatever it is and however it happened, I think there are people out there who didn't get booked here. That's still how we hold a grudge. And it's still an issue to them. Now, I could be totally wrong. I don't know if...

But have you talked to Estee about this and said, here's what we need to do going forward to prevent this? I mean, I don't think there's any way around it. Some people you're going to not book and they're going to become... You're not going to be able to predict 100% of the time. Just to be clear,

I'm not saying that Tim Dillon has that feeling. As a matter of fact, he and I have had some interaction, and it's been very, very pleasant. He's been nice to me, and I'm a huge, huge, huge fan of his, as are a lot of important people now. He's really made

a name for himself. With Dave Smith, I do remember that he auditioned in front of Estee, and we didn't book him, and I, you know, whatever. But I Smith, I do remember that he auditioned in front of Estee and we didn't book him. And I, you know, whatever. But I listen to him now do his interviews like on Reason magazine and stuff like that. And I'm impressed that he's become something so formidable, you know? Well, look, I've only interacted with Dave Smith on Twitter.

Uh-oh, Twitter's not a good way to do it. Well, I said that, you know, I talk about people that do their own research. And I said, well, people that do their own research, you know, if they weren't told that the sun, that the Earth revolves around the sun, they wouldn't be able to figure it out for themselves. And yet somehow they're able to figure out

that global warming is wrong or that, you know, various things. And he quote tweeted me and said, you know, this is the kind of elitist thinking about bashing people that do their own research or whatever. And it got thousands and thousands of responses. I mean, I don't know if it did me any good overall, but that was the recent interaction I had with Dave Smith. So in any case. What do you mean people shouldn't do their own research? Well, I don't mean people shouldn't do their own research. I mean, people can't do their own research. Well, I don't mean people shouldn't do their own research. I mean, people can't... What do you mean, Dan?

People can't do their own research for most things. I mean, you know, the example that I cited was, do you know what the speed of light is, for example? My son Manny does. Yeah. Did he do his own research?

Did you do your own research? Yes, he did. Could you do your own research? Did you replicate them? Doing your own research doesn't mean you have to do the experiment that measures the speed of light.

Okay, fine. But then why... The people that have done their own research on global warming, what research have they done? 90% of the climate scientists say it's real. Unless you're in Greenland taking ice core samples, you're not doing your own research. You're looking at the articles that refute it and saying,

no, I agree with that. I mean, it's not legitimate. I would say that most people who are doing their own research that we know about, the Alex Berenson types, they're doing cherry picking.

They're essentially scouring the internet for things which back them up or don't really back them up, but they can pass off as backing them up. So that's not to be respected. However,

smart people in the... I mean, this is an unprecedented time. You actually do have access to the same body of knowledge that everyone else does. There really is no private... It used to be the doctrine... Well, you have access to the same body of knowledge that everyone else does. There really is no private, like it used to be the doctor. Well, you have access to different studies that say different things.

Do you have the qualifications to discuss, to analyze which studies are valid and which are invalid? So it used to be the doctor would go into the back office and he had those books and he would come back and tell you, you had this, right? And you had no way, like, how could you, how could you do it? Now you can Google and say, well, doctor, did you think about the blah, blah, blah? This happened with my wife. The doctor said my son had some sort of pimple and Juanita did her own research.

And she said, no, I think it's this. And she took him back to the doctor. Doctor said, you're right. It is that. Jesus Christ. And they took it out. And I had, as you know, with COVID, many times I was kind of in front of a lot of things that are being said because I was doing research. Even as early as respirators, I was sending out emails saying these respirators, we're never going to run out of respirators because I did the research.

People on respirators die. Do you remember this? I was like, we're not going to run out of respirators. I did the research. People on respirators die. Do you remember this? I was like, we're not going to run out of respirators. And something about masks and a lot of things I was doing research on. Okay, but most people aren't you, right? Most people are going on like Facebook. But even Nome's research is based on other people's research. So people that purport to say that the research on global warming is flawed don't have the qualifications to make that determination in most, if not all, cases.

And the people who are determining whether global warming is true are not doing their own research. They're taking the temperature data from someone else. But they at least have the expertise to analyze it. Yes, some things you need real expertise. I don't understand climatology, but I don't, I can understand. I need to deny 99.99% of the people on the internet denying global warming. And by the way, they might be right, but if they are right, it's by pure happenstance. Right, but I think I can look at certain studies about the efficacy of masks or drugs or vaccines

and then ask a few friends I know to double check my work. I think, yeah. There are certain things you can do your own research, but generally speaking, I think the cherry-picking is what's going on. Mark, Yosef, how do you do? Speak into the mic, please. Come all the way close to the mic.

Mark is a comedian. He's going to open a comedy club, right? Well, yes. You know he needs to be in the microphone, right? I don't know if you're on or off or what. Yeah, he's a comedian and an attorney. Oh, you're an attorney. Which is so am I, sort of.

So am I. I never practiced. Well, you're not a comedian, but you are an attorney. I have a law degree. Norm has a law degree. You have a law degree. So the law degree outnumbers. The JDs outnumber the non-JDs in the room, three to two.

But we invited you because you are embarking, at least from what I read on the Internet, maybe it's not accurate. You're reopening Dangerfield. Is that correct? Yeah, we're reopening Dangerfield. Slated probably early 2024. So we applied for the liquor license. We signed the lease, All that good stuff.

Who's we? Me and Silent Partners. Israelis, I'm sure. You're not far off on that. So is Construction Beagle... Dangerfield is just to review. It was a comedy club on, what is it, 60th and 1st? On 61st and 1st, 1118 1st Avenue.

Yeah. It was owned by Rodney Dangerfield. I guess when he died, it passed to, was it Tony Bavacqua? Tony Bavacqua. It was a mainstay for a long time. And then during COVID, for whatever reason, it went under. But it was, you know, a well-known club for a long time. I never worked there.

I worked there a few times, not very often. Has the construction began? Not yet, but soon. It's a beautiful place. Why would you change it? Well, I mean, it looks great if it was 1969. That's what makes it awesome. They haven't...

Dude, you're going to make a huge mistake. The furniture needs to be changed. I don't know about the furniture. If you change that vibe in that room, you are going to make it so much less likely to succeed. That place is special. Okay.

So you're saying keep the deck, the old strip club look. Absolutely. Yeah, but no. Whenever I would go in there, I was so jealous. I was like, this is the only other club that actually has a vibe. They're doing everything else wrong. Everything else was wrong in that place. But that was like, this is the only other club that actually has a vibe. They're doing everything else wrong. Everything else was wrong in that place. But that was like walking into a movie

set. It was awesome. He's right. And he's saving you a lot of money. I don't know if he's right or wrong, but it's... Do you know how hard it is to stumble on an atmosphere in a club that really is memorable and notable, is not generic? That's an

interesting point. Maybe you could refreshen it up a bit. Or I could be fucking with you. I have to think you're a known error. But Noam is so confident in the success of the comedy seller that he can dispense

advice to you without feeling threatened. Maybe you should take advantage of that, I don't... Maybe you should take advantage of that. It's not that. I don't think he feels threatened at all, but yeah. We're actually not

gut renovating it, so we're keeping some of the aesthetics. I want it to have a vibe. You're backpedaling already. It's not a full gut renovation, but we're keeping some of the vibes,

but some of the stuff, I mean, the carpet, the stains, you got to get rid of it. So let me give an example. Minetta Tavern, where I'm going to eat dinner this evening. Oh, really? Am I invited?

Let's see how this interview goes. So Keith McNally, the famous restaurateur, he took that place, and he didn't do what everyone else would have done, which was renovate and blah, blah, blah. He took that place, and he refurbished it so that it looks almost exactly like it would have looked if you walked into it in the 1940s.

And it's magical. And it's totally unique. And he did it exactly right. And Dangerfield has one of these classic magical atmospheres. There's not another place that looks like that. Maybe in old Vegas. It doesn't exist anymore.

It's the last of its kind. Well, that is true. Whether or not that's helpful for the business, I don't know. Of course it is. What about the Dangerfields name? I guess you don't own that, so you can't use it. I'm assuming. I don't.

I reached out. Shlomo's is good. I reached out to the owners, or maybe owner, I'm not sure. And what they wanted was not something that was in our budget. How do they have the right to keep it? I mean, it's owned by Rodney Dangerfield, Inc. What, it's the trademark? Yeah.

So whoever, you know, there's a couple of issues. You know, you guys are lawyers, so the like, the trademark would be abandoned after three years. How about fields of danger? I got a request for banger fields. I don't know about that, but... Wait, wait, this is interesting. So you ask them, and there's what happens after three years? Well, after three years,

so their trademark is to use it in a club setting. So if it's not being used, after three years, they're effectively abandoned. Then you can use it, but they can still sue you, and then you get into all types of litigation. But they effectively have to use it within three years. His is probably expiring by October, because that would be three years since when they closed.

But at the same time, Ron DeAngelo's wife is still alive. Technically, she might have some... Is she nice? She is very nice, actually. Okay. Extremely nice. Nobody's that nice, actually. Okay. Extremely nice. Nobody's that nice. You should probably use it.

How can it be damaged? What about the fact that if you use it, and yes, I do have a law degree, but that was a long time ago, that people will assume that at least the estate of Rodney Dangerfield is associated with the club. Isn't it under common law or whatever? That has some bearing on this?

Right. Well, he might... Whoever the owner of the trademark would probably present a problem Rodney's family whoever that is would reach out and be like you're using this name which is easy identifiable with the place as was before I'm not sure if his wife has part had part ownership of the club I mean the last time I made love to my wife it was ridiculous nothing was happening I looked right so what's the matter? Can't you think of anyone either?

So there's just a bunch of issues that I really wouldn't want. I mean, you could name it Seinfeld, you know, but you can't do that either. Right, I wouldn't want to run into these issues anyway, starting out. Right, I mean, no, I mean, you can't just name a club after an identifiable name just because they're not using it, I don't think. Well, I don't have a law degree.

Yeah, you probably can. No, you can't make money off of somebody else's likeness, and I don't have a law degree, and I know that. Yeah, but the name can be generic. These are tough cases that judges really ponder. But he's right for sure that you can't just control a name, not use it, and prevent other people from using it. You can't do that. The law doesn't allow that. So you have to use it or have the provable intention to use it. These are the things I remember. But if you actually have abandoned the name, then you've abandoned the name and someone else can use it now now that now it gets trickier when

it was danger fields in that club whatever it is but the name seinfeld i mean there's a million people named seinfeld in the country no but no there are a million people named seinfeld but if if you were opening like a coffee shop named seinfeld it would be different than if you're opening a comedy. They would have to say, you're pretending that Jerry Seinfeld owns it. I'm not pretending that Jerry Seinfeld owns it. I don't know. I'd have to look into that, to be honest with you. Unless, Mark, you have a definitive answer.

Jerry Seinfeld will definitely see if you open a club called Seinfeld's. Will he win? Probably, yes. Based on what law? He's identifiable with stand-up comedy. That name is his last name. You're clearly confusing customers in that they're thinking they're going to Jerry Seinfeld's comedy club.

But that doesn't damage him. What kind of a lawyer are you? Divorce. I've done divorce, but I just do general litigation. Well, I'm going to look into that for next week. It's a good thing to look into. Anyhow, so if you're not using the thing... I love that reply.

I don't believe anything you're saying. We'll come back next week with my answers. So will you be calling the club? We have a few ideas. We're sort of

batting it around, taking some surveys from the location. What are the choices? A little bit bananas? I tried a couple of names that were just completely unrelated,

but they hated it. Like what? Who's gay? His silent partners that are silent. The Israelis? No, also the Upper East Area. There's groups you could talk to people that live in the Upper East Side and get their feedback, like Facebook groups and stuff like that.

So I'm like, how about we call it something unrelated, like The Miracle? They're like, no, that's a terrible name. And I was like, okay, how about Thin Ice? They're like, that's awful. Every name I gave was terrible. Yeah, these aren't very good. The funny thing was they came back with their own ideas, and they were 100 times worse.

How about The Chortle Junction? Okay, no. I was like, why would I do that? How about The Funny Thing Is? I would avoid any names. That's good. I like that. I would avoid any names that are like cutesy.

We hated Comedy Cellar, actually. Did you? Did your dad? Who came up with that? Bill Grundfest. My father thought it was awful. Why? It's fine.

Well, now it seems fine. It's renowned and revered, but at the time it just seemed like such a lazy name. What would your dad think of what you're calling the theater? What would my dad think? He's calling the theater the new comedy club. He's opening up a new club at the McDonald's on 6th Ave. He's calling it the theater. And if you're not going to use that Dangerfield quote,

I'm not. He's calling it the Menachem Dorman Comedy Cellar. A comedy theater, which... Okay, but I will ask you guys a question. Wait, answer my question. What's your question? What would your dad think about what you're calling the theater, the Menachem Dorman Comedy Theater?

Oh, he would love that. Oh, that's amazing. Of course he would love that. So, especially being dead, he would love that. Meaning that he would love the idea that after he died, I did that. Oh. So, you know, we have that neon sign, fat black person. Yeah, of course.

The big long. I love that. Well, I want to change it. Well, don't change it. Just add another one. I'm not allowed to just add another one. Oh, God. Because the city has a lot of rules.

But I was thinking, the Fat Black Pussycat, although we have comedy there, it's really just a bar that has comedy shows. shows, but the whole threshold and beyond of 3rd Street and 6th Avenue down 3rd Street around McDougal Street onto Bleecker it's become like the comedy district, right? Sorry, Dan, I don't mean to interrupt you. No, I'm trying to Google the trademark shit. I'm not doing something irrelevant here.

He's doing his own research. I'm doing... I am qualified to do that.. I'm not doing something irrelevant here. He's doing his own research. I'm doing... Well, I am qualified to do that. Yeah, so I'm sorry. Do you want to go to the NYU library across the... You're doing legal research now? Well, wouldn't it be great if I was able to come up with a definitive answer? No, nobody cares.

Well, I don't think that's true. Okay, go on. To the comedy district. I lost my train of thought. No, no, no. I don't want to talk about anybody. Talk about something else. I'm done.

No, no. Because I'm... Like, you don't want to talk about it. I want to talk about something else. I'm done. No, no, because I'm... Like, you don't fucking go off in your own world and Google shit during the podcast. You do it all the fucking time. All the time you do it. So why are you being so pissy? Please continue.

If you don't wish for me to Google something 100% relevant to the conversation, I won't do it. Let me take a book. Let me take a page out of my wife's playbook. You do this, by the way.

I've seen you do it. I've seen you go online and try to find stuff. I've seen you do it. So you do it. So I'm sorry if it's upsetting to you. I do apologize. I will defer to you. Please continue your line of questioning about the sign.

Yes, no, I'm not sure why. All right. So I was thinking that maybe we... I'm putting my phone back in my pocket. Maybe we should repurpose that sign and put something else up there. It could say comedy solo or whatever it is, but maybe I could make it bigger

and put something to indicate that this is like the Greenwich Village Comedy District or something like that because it really is like the entrance to the area there. And it can't say, why not the Greenwich Village Comedy District? It's too many words. So I was thinking, what could the fat black put? It's like, that's about as many letters as you can get.

I think the comedy cellar, no? Well, okay, but that wouldn't be. Isn't that like all encompassing? Isn't the cellar like all encompassing? Well, I was trying to go bigger and indicate that it's the entire, because there's a lot of comedy clubs here now. Right. Well, there's the Greenwich Hill.

There's the Greenwich Hill. Bleeker Street. There's all kinds of stuff, Grant. Comedy, comedy, comedy. The comedy quarter, like French quarter. Comedy quarter. That's not bad. With maybe even a New Orleans theme.

I don't know. Maybe even in French. Maybe you should Google something. Maybe you should do the trade one. What page were you taking out of Juanita's handbook? I wasn't taking any names. I was just not answering. Oh, that's why he wasn't talking.

Now, let me ask you this question. What makes you think there's money in comedy? He's like, all of you guys are crazy. Caroline's just went broke. Other places are constantly on Groupon. Have you checked Groupon? Every cover is giving out cover charges on Groupon. There's two for one night.

If you go to other clubs during the week, they're third, fall, half fall. Yeah, but they don't have a vibe. Shows are canceled at the last minute. What makes you think that the market now is demanding another comedy club? And this can't be cheap rent or a cheap project. You're talking a million dollars just to get open. Yes. I dislike that tickets are available on Groupon. I highly dislike that. So we won't

be using Groupon. Right. But what does it tell you that other people are? Yeah. It means that they're struggling or they need more ticket sales. I'm not saying that there's a huge demand for it in that area. I view the Dangerfields as something different. It's an iconic club. But you're changing the name. Resurrected. Resurrection.

No. That's a good name. Afterlife. We might keep it something. Maybe Rodney's Club. Afterfields? Afterfields. Something that has a touch, like Rodney's maybe. I don't know.

But there'll be something related to what was there beforehand. There'll be like, you know, a wall of like... No respect. That's definitely trademarked. But maybe respect. I don't know. No respect can't be trademarked as the name of a club. The words are trademarked, I'm sure, by the way.

I don't get no respect. So the reason why I'm bringing it back, I do think there's money in comedy. R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Not bad. I do think there is money in comedy. I was formerly a partner, I think Dan knows, at the comic strip.

We won't get into all the grisly details there. For a couple years. Or maybe we will. They're struggling, right? They're still profitable. Define profitable. More money than losses. Yeah, but that doesn't, like, what does that mean?

But it's a labor of love. It's a flow. You know that Mark, it's a labor of love. He also does stand-up. The other issue is I'm a stand-up comedian, so this is what I do, what I know. Oh, you want to work there. This is a James Altucher.

No, no, no. It's not a venue where I'm going to get on every show and do that. Just some shows. I don't know about that, but the point of labor of love— You didn't think this through? Listen, here's the thing. Will I perform at my club sometimes? Yes, I'm sure.

So you know that unless you are Eddie Murphy and even then, when you get up on that stage, the other comedians are going to drag you through the mud. They're going to roll their eyes at you. Not me.

Dan, as long as you pay them. They're going to lose respect for you. They're going to make fun of you behind their back. This is a... You're asking for a lot. I mean, my take would be like, I don't care. That's good. Comedians didn't respect me before I owned the club.

I mean, there's just a... There's a thing amongst comedians. I mean, everybody thinks they're amazing. You don't get no respect. It's true. Look, that should be my new tagline. Look, I mean, people, that is true. Like, people say, oh, he owns the club. That's the only reason he gets on.

Yeah, okay, so what? He's opening a venue that leads to more work for comics. If it's his club, he can put himself on. Of course he can. Other comics, they might do what Noam is suggesting and make fun of you, but so what? Yeah, I mean, I've been performing for 10 years, so it's not like I opened the club specifically

to start trying stand-up. I'm not looking to perform every day or whatever. Maybe like, say, a Tuesday, they need a host. Somebody backs out or something. All right, I'll fill in or something. I'm not going to be there on the lineup every day. I have no interest in it.

What is the capacity of that room? The room could seat 200. That's great. Yeah, it's big. And the bar area is about 40. So would you be happy just breaking even but being able to be in this industry? For now, yeah.

I mean, the first, I don't expect profit the first year or so. Why are you doing that? I'm getting it. Somebody's shaking their head here in disapproval. Not disapproval. I'm like, you're going to, I just hope you know what you're doing. What you're describing is, you know, a business that goes under can be disastrous for someone's life. And you won't just lose a million dollars because nobody ever just loses the cost of the construction. You're going to lose $3 million before you throw in the towel

because at first, no, it's going to turn around and this, and then you can't just back out. We spend a million dollars, and people tell you it's the weather, it's this, it's the season. People haven't gotten back from COVID. They have a million different rationales why it's not good, and it's a classic thing. A gambler doesn't walk away from the table

because he doesn't want to realize his losses. As long as you're still in the game, you think you're going to make it back. Well, that's why I'm still doing comedy. And then, so most businesses finally shut their doors when the owners are out of money. They've borrowed money. They've borrowed money. They're down to nothing.

They're in a terrible, terrible situation. And then they throw in the towel. Well, but no, we don't know what his situation is. It could be that he's a very small stakeholder and the silent partners are no, we don't know what his situation is. It could be that he's a very small stakeholder and the silent partners are 90%. I don't know what his situation is. It might be... What's your advice?

His advice is don't do it. Don't. Don't. I mean, it's not... Well, I'll tell you my advice. It's not 100%? It's not a unique take on it. I've been told by many people in the comedy industry,

like, what are you doing opening a club? Are you insane? I will tell you my advice, but it's too late. Don't do it. My advice is, so when I opened up the Fat Black Pussycat, this is not that long ago. I mean, it was 1999, which seems like a long time ago to some people. Oh, that was when it was a bar at that time.

It was a bar. And I won't go through the whole long story, but in the end, there was like a year left on the bar. So I was going to buy it for, it went to $80, then $40, a whole bunch of breaks for $20,000. $20,000. This place is huge. And then- But that's not the rent. That's just the name and the...

I bought the lease and everything. And with that, the landlord was going to give me a new lease. And I showed up and I didn't have $20,000. I only had $10,000. I thought I could borrow $10,000 from my father and he didn't give it to me. So I showed up and said, listen, I was supposed to have $20,000.

I only have $10,000. I'll pay you off the other $10, 10 over a year if you'll take it. If you can't, you can't. I understand. So it was Robert De Niro's mother who was an amazing person. And she and I hit it off. And she read me correctly. I wasn't bullshitting.

And she decided to take a risk on me. It was one of the most important things that ever happened to me. But anyway, the point is that from that $10,000, I started small. And with money coming in, I expanded and expanded and expanded. And three, four years later, I had 6,000 square feet upstairs and downstairs. I took a partner, my partner George, to build the basement. I never really risked a lot of money. The point is that starting small, unless you're very wealthy, starting small is

what I would suggest. There are always places out there where somebody is going broke, where you can get into a place which is already built. You don't have to renovate it. They have a liquor license. You get in and you open it up for, let's say, $150,000. That was the comic strip. That's how I got in there. Yeah, well, that's what you do. Now, I have all this business, and I'm prepared to spend a million dollars, you know, to open a room. And even with all that business, I'm shitting bricks about it. But I actually have on paper the stats to say,

no, this is a no-brainer. You're turning away X number of people. That's what it is. But if you're going to start from zero and think that you're going to be able to turn this thing around in a year while at the same time taking on huge monthly expenses, from day one you go more and more and more and more into debt, you're going to, I mean, you could be a genius and more and more into debt you're gonna i mean it

you could be a genius and then i sound like a schmuck but chances are you're really really um putting yourself in a position where it's likely you're gonna hurt yourself likely you're gonna hurt yourself as opposed to putting $150,000 into the comic strip which is a going concern has income on day one you might lose little might little, might make some, whatever it is, but you can take that existing action, improve it, and build it up. I would have lost more there. You're no longer a part of it.

Is there a story there, something you share, don't want to share? You mentioned Grizzly Details. What Grizzly Details do you know? I don't know. You're no longer affiliated with the comic strip. No. Is there a story there that you wish to share

or don't wish to share? Did they throw you out or you affiliated with the comic strip. So is there a story there that you wish to share or don't wish to share? Did they throw you out or you left? It was both. Like a breakup. I would say both. Was it personal issues or financial issues? Financial issues. Yeah.

That become personal. That's the way it is. Oh, of course. I mean, look, if you're a minority partner anywhere with somebody that you're not. You look white to me. I'm Jewish, though. all right but if you're if you're a minority partner with anybody that you're not close enough you know even family it could be a problem but you don't get much to say and you don't really control the books and stuff so there's always going to be some issues and you know so

that part was like a little of a falling out and uh you know look i was happy to save the club the club's still alive, right? If they didn't get that influx of cash, it would have gone under during COVID. It was closed for a month. They needed somebody to buy out the other partner. Why did they need cash during COVID? So there was a lawsuit that was going on for years.

Bob Wax was one of the original partners. He died in 2013. His wife then would have become, according to the contract, she would be the remaining 50% holder with Richie Tinkin. She sued years later saying she never got anything. Club hasn't contacted her. She never got any money, et cetera. That lawsuit went on from 2017 until somewhere around COVID,

and it hit the fact where they were going to go to trial, and the judge was going to be like, you guys are going to... She's a 50% owner. So when you're a 50% owner in a corporation, either you guys can come to a resolution or she has the power to shut down your business.

So she wanted to shut it down because they weren't reaching a settlement, so they needed money to buy her out. So I still don't understand how you ended up partying company. We ran into disagreements. The place is still open? Still open.

And they bought you out? Yes. All right. And they make money there? When I left, they were profitable. Probably still are. Unless, I don't know. Well, I don't know.

Have you performed there? I go there regularly, and it's okay. I don't know what their books are. And I would have you performed there? I go there regularly, and it's okay. I don't know what their books are. And I would have thought the same thing. They pay a ton of money in rent. Expenses are high. They charge a lot for drinks there, I know. Yeah, but in that area, it's not that wild.

$15 for a drink. We need to raise our prices. Do you know who's going to be your booker? That's a thankless job. He's going to be the booker. No. You thankless job. He's going to be the booker. No. You're not? No, I'm not going to get involved.

Why are you going to pay another salary when you already don't have money? That is not a fun job. I do not want. Of course, you need, at the beginning, if you think you know what you're... Were you the booker when you started? Hold on, let me tell you something. I'm talking to you like some some old arrogant guy believe me i don't that's not actually the way i view things like i don't think because i'm the comedy seller i know better than you i really don't like this

i really don't um but you definitely do about running a business no sure well yes maybe yes maybe no but i'm saying that's saying that's not my approach here. I'm just telling you strongly how I feel about what's smart about these things. When you're opening a business, if you believe in yourself that you have the insight and the unique spin on something that you can be successful in business, then it implies that you ought to want to control every aspect of that business because any schmuck can hire a booker and they all go broke. And the booking is the most important thing in your club. It's everything.

If you're going to spend all that money and then put the most important function in the hands of somebody else, to me, it undermines the notion that you should be doing this. You should be opening it because you know how to book. It's like if you're going to spend millions of dollars on a restaurant, either you're a chef

or you know someone who is a fantastic fucking chef. But if they all just hire a chef, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is everything. The quality of the food is everything here. How can you leave that for somebody else unless, again, unless you have somebody in mind, like, I'm going to hire

I don't know Caroline Hirsch as my booker you know. It could be known that he's going to do the booking but he wants to have a figurehead so that he doesn't get all the fucking flack when angry comics are like what the fuck I'm on a wedding. It could be but he didn't say that. Well maybe he wants to keep that a secret. I don't know.

So like certain things okay if I have certain names that I want to put in I will. Like the guys at the stand hate them them or love them, that's what they did. They opened the club and they control the booking, you know, and they really book in the image of what they thought a club should be. And they've had some success there. Well, I mean, I will have veto power. And also if there's an act, like I have a lot of connections in the comedy world,

if there's an act that I want to bring in, like a big name that I want to bring in on the weekend to supplant anybody, of course I'm going to take over. I guess what Noam is saying is if you're paying a booker, I don't know, what is it, $80,000, $100,000, whatever that salary is, first of all, I might be interested in the job, if that's what it pays. Just to make a...

Dan would be a good booker. You like nerdy Jewish comics? But why wouldn't you want to save that money and do it yourself, unless you're so busy with your legal practice that you just... That's another matter too. It's more profitable for you to do law than to book, then okay. That's the other thing.

I'm going to continue working as a lawyer during the day. We'll come to the club at night. So it's going to be a lot of sleepless or less sleep nights for the first year or so. I'm not going to leave my day job. Do you do divorce? Do you do divorce? I have done divorces. Your Honor, take his wife, please.

Do you have a philosophy? I mean, no one was talking about, I think he mentioned a philosophy of booking. If there is such a thing, the Comedy Cellar's philosophy of booking is, is the audience laughing? Okay, book them. The Stan's philosophy, I think, is slightly different.

I think they have a vision of who they think are good comics. And, you know, and they're slightly toward the... They used to call themselves Cringe Humor. That was their website before they opened the club. So they're like an edgier comic. Comics they think are subversive and or sort of in line with Skankfest, I think. That's kind of their vibe. Probably, yeah. You know, so so the stand had a presence at skank fest by the way there was a sign yeah i i think that that that you know that's their kind of taste um whereas the comedy seller

i don't think you have a particular type of comedy you don't have anything is it no is a guy killing okay fine put him on the schedule Where do you fall in that? I mean, they have to do well. I'm not going to... No, but you have like a philosophy like, oh, there's these comics I love and I want to book them and I don't give a shit if the audience is laughing or not. I want to cultivate and curate my vision of what's great comedy. We want to cultivate and curate some newer talent.

I've seen in a lot of clubs they book the same... I would like to do that too, by the way. Right, right, right. It's not the easiest thing, but a lot of clubs they book the same... I would like to do that too, by the way. Right, right, right. It's not the easiest thing, but a lot of clubs are just booking the same... You see the same 20 people going around New York City performing at all these clubs. Okay, but here's the thing. The audience doesn't want to pay for that. Like, we used to do that

in the old days, late at night. I'm looking for hours to do it now, but that's like the farm team. That's not a business model. You need to bring people in paying $25 cover charge. They're not going to pay that twice for new undeveloped talent. Well, not undeveloped,

but new talent that the clubs don't know about yet. Hidden gem, you might say. Plenty of independent shows that are going on and people that are not being seen. Independent shows, the acts take the money. Yeah, but they still want to perform at a club. Yeah, but how are you going to make money? You need to collect the cover charge.

You can't give the cover charge away to the acts. I'm not following. When you book an independent show, they want to take the cover charge. You can't give the cover charge away to the acts. I'm not following. When you book an independent show, they want to take the door. I'm not booking an independent show. I'm saying independent shows where you find the acts. I see. Bring them to the club. That's what I mean. But yeah, I mean, look. I mean, there is a market for like, you know,

I guess for comedy aficionados, however many of those exist, that want to discover new people. You know, I don't know him shaking his head no. I used to sell tickets in Times Square, and I had lineups from every club. People that are walking around

don't know who anybody is at any club. So unless you have, you know, Roseanne Bard or Andrew Dice Clay or somebody who's been, like, nationally renowned, people don't know who... Unless you have somebody who's famous in the 90s. Oh, whatever. I mean, somebody relevant.

Louis C.K. All right. You know, people don't know. I was in Times Square. I'm like, guys, they have Dave Attell tonight. People are like, who? People don't know. By the way, Dice is still.

But when you go to the club, you want the show to be killer. You want people to laugh. Right. That's great. You know, so how do you, the comedy seller's philosophy is book who they think of the, but you might dispute

their taste. Listen, I, but that's their philosophy. Yeah. I mean, I agree with that, but I also want to stay, you know,

you guys do also a balancing act too because you don't want to book somebody that kills but is also a hack comic because hack comics do really well too.

So I'm sure you guys do a little. No, I might dispute that. No, no, no. I mean, I don't like hacks. There are, there are people like, for instance, Sean Patton comes to mind who I, who I, you know, took to a long time ago because I thought they had a lot of promise when they were green. None of this is 100%. But, you know...

Look, I could be wrong here, but I think that if you just put together great shows that people will come and you have a good vibe and I do agree that you shouldn't wreck the inside of that place because that magic is still there. Now, maybe Noam doesn't want me to give away Trade Seeker, but I hardly think this is something

that you couldn't have figured out. You know, in order to get the best comics that you can get, you need to make it a place that comics want to hang out at. Now, of course, here at the Comedy Cellar, you have the Olive Tree Cafe upstairs, so it's a cool hang. Yes.

Don't tell them about the hookers. I've eaten at Olive Tree. So, you know, that's important, I think. How are you going to make comics want to come? You know, the stand has a nice restaurant. The stand also, by the way, employs very attractive men and women to work there. Is that part of the selling?

I don't know. I don't work there, but Kyle Dunnigan's a friend of mine and he works there, so I go over there sometimes just to hang out. But it certainly doesn't make it unpleasant. The other thing that's good practice, because I do produce shows around the city, and there are comics that will only do my shows at these clubs because they know they're getting paid.

So paying the comics is also. Well, obviously he's going to pay the comics. No, but there are clubs that, like, you can go and perform and they don't fucking pay you. That's another reason why I jumped in, sort of. I feel like I come in with a comedian-friendly perspective since I've been a comic for 10 years. I know the struggle of not getting paid, being treated like a servant to most of these clubs, bars, whatever it is.

So the purpose of the club... It's kind of like being a lawyer. The purpose of the club was going in making it comedian friendly so we're actually doing a green room for comics where it's going to be like a mini Dangerfields we're taking all the parts of the furniture that were in the main room originally we're going to put that in the green room

you know just make it comedian friendly like food drinks etc whatever they want maybe games downstairs too and yeah we're going to have a we have a kitchen food's going to have a... We have a kitchen. Food's going to be... You know, comics can get... Comics basically can run the show if they want. Like, they want food,

if they want to hang out in the green room, whatever they want, you know. I want it to be a place where comics feel completely invited to come and hang, as opposed to, you know, a lot of the clubs that are, you know... I feel like being an owner that's also a comedian makes me more sympathetic and empathetic

with the comedian struggle. So it's going to be comedian-centric focus. But of course, you want to be profitable as well. Noam, I see a look of... I have heard this before when comics opened years ago. You remember comics on 14th Street? They lost like $11 million. But they went in hard

and heavy and like, this is going to be the most beautiful club in the comics. We're going to have a great food and the comics are going to love to hang out. And we did, by the way, enjoy hanging out there. I'm not going to say it's beautiful. They put so much money into it and at the beginning were so comic friendly that

they couldn't sustain it. You're saying don't be that comic friendly. comic friendly I'm saying maybe half off on the food be awful to the comedians maybe a half off instead of a full comp on the food. What do comedians want more than anything else? Stage time no

respect. No. Money no. Tell them Dan do you know? Exposure? Gigs? Hot chicks? Audience? I thought you were going to say cocaine for a second. More than free drinks, more than food, which is very nice.

More than the hang, which is also very important. They want a packed house. That goes without... I mean, if we don't pack the house, we're doomed anyways. How are you going to pack the house? It's the same... I mean, it's the same

struggle that every club has, how to fill up the seats. So you've got a great marketing team, advertising team. Don't be too much of a Cassandra because this club is in my neighborhood and it would be very convenient for me to go down there. So I would like to see it open.

Even if I could only get a couple years out of it. Who's Cassandra? Are you saying that even if what I'm telling him is true and actually saves him some horrible outcome, you want your spots? I mean, I'm all in already. That's what I'm saying. We're all in already.

I'm being obviously facetious. Who want your spots? I mean, I'm all in already. That's what I'm saying. We're all in already. I'm being obviously facetious. Who's Cassandra? Being a Cassandra is being a doomsayer. Cassandra, I think, was the one, like... As opposed to a Pollyanna. Yeah, right? She was the one, like, when Troy was about to be sacked, she goes, right? She was screaming. I don't know. Something like that.

I'll look that up after I finish my trademark search. But, yeah, obviously I would like this club to open. It's in my neighborhood. If it's going to be a good hang and if they're going to have good food. We've been getting a lot of positive. And I think Mark will use me, unlike Stan. So it could be wrong. We've gotten a lot of positive feedback from people in the area.

They're excited. I've stood outside the Angel Field several times because we have people coming in, checking out the space, seeing what things we need to fix. People walk by all the time. Is this place opening? Is this place opening? What's it going to be? Is it still going to be a comedy club? That's great. We're going to come in. We're going to see. There's a lot of positive energy in the area.

I think there's not much in the Upper East Side in terms of comedy. I know that the strip is a little bit far away. The neighborhood is really happy about seeing it. By the way, I know that the strip is a little bit far away. So the neighborhood is really happy about seeing it. By the way, I want to underline, Noam, if you don't want me working there, make me an offer. Make me an offer. Yeah, I'm not going to have

any of that stuff like, oh, you can work at this club, you can't work at any other club. This is a club, there's not a lot of that stuff in the neighborhood. What's that Seinfeld episode where he tells Babu to open the restaurant? There's nothing like that in his neighborhood. You should open a Pakistani restaurant. Maybe there the restaurant. There's nothing like that in this neighborhood. You should open a Pakistani restaurant. Maybe there's a reason there's nothing like that in the neighborhood. Well, there was something like that called Dangerfields,

and I don't know what kind of business it did. It was open for 50 years. Okay, Dangerfields was touch and go for the last 20 years it was open, and it had the name Dangerfields. Which was probably useless in the last 20 years since he was dead. No, but tourists... Even I was like, there's a cachet to being Rodney Dangerfield's club.

There was. I don't know if there is anymore. He died 20 years ago, right? But I think it continued after his death. Whether it's still the case 20 years later, I don't know. I think so.

But it's not as much as it did like 30 years ago or whatever. But yes, it does have some cachet. I agree. I mean, he's still considered like, I mean, he's Rodney fucking Dangerfield. Like, I don't think that ever is going to go away. Do you Dangerfield, Dan? I'll tell you, you know.

I'll tell you, this Mark, he gets no respect, you know. That's not very good. I was waiting for it to start. Oh, he dissed you. 20-year-olds or 30-year-olds, you asked them, Ronnie Dangerfield. I've asked a few and they have no idea who he is. Okay, they don't know what the

Holocaust was either. They don't know who the Vice President is. Those are two different things. I'm just saying, I don't know. 20-year-olds and 30-year-olds don't know who Mick Jagger is. I'm not saying opening this comedy club was going to be like a Holocaust for this poor man. I'm just saying I don't know 20 year olds and 30 year olds don't know who Mick Jagger is I'm not saying opening this comedy club was going to be like a holocaust for this poor man I'm just saying

it's a lot of it's a lot it's a lot to open a business I'm scared for you I'm rooting for you I think it's going to be great I appreciate that I'm not rooting against you

no I don't think you are I think that you're giving some sage advice and probably some like really good things to think about. You have to weigh the risks. I weighed the risks. I'm approaching 40.

It's possible, by the way, that Mark makes a shit ton of money as a lawyer. And this is just a drop in the bucket for him. It's possible, but it's not true. But look, I weighed it. I'm like, look, I've been a comic for 10 years. I'm approaching 40. There's a club right here I can open. I want to lose $11 million.

How much is the rent? If I don't do it, it'll be about $25,000. If I don't do it now, I'm probably not, like, I don't see me doing this when I'm hitting around $50,000 or whatever. So look, it's a risk I want to take. It's good. It's been positive vibes. I think the area wants it.

I have a good amount of contacts in the comedy area. They're all excited for it. And look, I'm in. I have to be very positive about it, which I am, and I think it's going to be successful. Can you tell us what your percentage of the investment is? I'm a majority owner. Okay. So it's a big one. It's a big... Yes.

This is all savings... Not plurality. Majority. This is all your savings from law? Yep. Okay. And if you lose it, are you at zero? I mean, how much? Well, it depends how quickly.

That's what all your savings mean. What if we're successful? I know, and I hope you are. What do your parents say? You know, I don't bring up comedy to them anymore. He's almost 40 years old. He's his own man. Oh, it doesn't matter.

Jewish mom. I mean, what are you, like the Bidens? You don't talk to your father about business? Oh, I talk to them. So they know I'm opening the club. Where did you grow up? Where are you from? New York?

Brooklyn. Yeah, Midwood. Okay. Did you grow up religious? I went to yeshiva until high school was over, and then, you know, college came, and then I'm like, I don't need to do this anymore. You have before you the owner of,

arguably the most successful comedy club in the world. Do you have any, and I think he'd be happy to give you any advice you might want. He's not stingy with advice. If you have any questions for him. I think he's more. I mean, he already told you a lot.

He's very nervous for me, which I appreciate. I appreciate that. Obviously, the comedy club is highly respected. When it began, maybe if you remember what the struggles were and you can give tips for the first year or so. His father owned it

when it began. When it began, it was not our income. We had other businesses that supported us. Well, so does Mark, because he's a lawyer during the day, so he also has that... No, but the olive tree was a growing business, so the commie cellar, the room was...

Was it just an empty room that was literally... Basically empty, so it was just grave. Oh, it was additional. All the rent was paid, everything, so we were great with no real... it was additional. Rent was paid, everything was paid, with no real, there was really no overhead to begin. How much does Greenwich pay, do you know? Greenwich Comedy?

I don't have any. And rent? Oh, how much does it pay? I thought you meant how much does it pay the comics. I don't know the answer to either question. I've never been in there, but it's... I know that Al Martin, who owns the Greenwich Village Comedy Club, and I mean, he's very good, I think, at finding really good deals.

Yes. Like, he's really good at that, like, shoestringing it. And I mean, he's very good, I think, at finding really good deals. Yes. Like he's really good at that, like shoestringing it. And he's a survivor. You know, and he's been successful. A survivor of what? I mean, he's... His business don't go broke. Yeah, and he owns three homes as far as I know. You're stuck in the Holocaust here.

I thought that's what you meant. I have a lot of respect for Al Martin. But, you know, yeah, probably the answer is probably not that much, considering Al Martin is pretty good at finding good deals. Yeah, and I called him, actually, right after I took over. You're supposed to call him before you took over. After you took over what? No, when I took over the lease for Dangerfield.

I called him, and I'm like, just... So you have the lease now. So this is done. It's done. This is 100% happening. It's done. So $25,000 a month is not actually a bad rent if for a 200-seat room.

If you can fill it. No, it's not. I mean, yeah. So, like, I mean, based on the numbers per person at Comic Strip, you know, we don't even need, I mean, ideally we'd have full houses. Full house on weekends would pay the rent easily. So, Norm, I mean, ideally we'd have full houses. Full house on weekends would pay the rent easily. So, no, I'm going to ask you how you plan to do that.

Are you going to use a street team? I mean, how do you plan to? We're going to do the, you know, obviously we need to think a little bit more. I mean, everybody does the same thing. Street team, marketing, advertising. Street team for Times Square, though, I don't think that's even a thing anymore. I mean, what's it opening? There's places in the area.

I'm shooting optimistically for end of December, but likely 2020. How are you going to do it that quickly when Noam's taken two years to open up his new room? We have to build the whole thing from scratch. We don't have any marketing budget. You don't need one now. We never had one. No, I don't believe in it. Oh, you didn't have one now we never had one no i don't believe in it oh you didn't have one in the beginning you mean it's all word of mouth i guess

yeah well you know i mean if you know if comics can tweet you know i'm gonna be at look not just that like i saw the podcast that's a new thing i hear people are doing this is extremely profitable oh of course no i. No, I mean, look, yeah, obviously we'll have great video equipment. Maybe comics, we'll send comics to their clips, post it on Instagram with our name behind them. You know, there's types of free advertising. By the way, one thing that clubs do that is, I think pretty much like printing money, are these bringer shows.

Now, let me explain that to our listeners. Usually when comics are brand new, no one's going to put them on stage. They're brand new. Well, what they do is they'll say, well, you know what? If you bring three paying customers or four or five paying customers, you can go on stage. And then they'll have a whole show where everybody's bringing three or four or five paying customers. Now, there's literally no end to the amount of aspiring comics out there and literally nothing they won't do to get on stage. This is printing money for a

comedy club. You know, is it prestigious? No. Does a comedy seller do it? No. We did do it one time. Caroline's. Is it a guaranteed money maker? Absolutely. Caroline's was ridiculous. We used to do 15 person bringers. Yeah, I did a few of them.

I did those. I did those few of them. I did those. I did those, too. I remember I did one when I just started with Bob De Bono. Bob De Bono, yeah. He used to run it. He's Trump now.

Yeah, now he's a Trump impersonator. He's amazing. But this is a real money maker for a new club. Are you going to do that? I mean, we'll definitely consider it. I mean, it's usually... You do that in the beginning. It's usually... for a new club. Are you going to do that? I mean, we'll definitely consider it. I mean, it's usually... We'll do that in the beginning.

It's usually... Like a Tuesday night. Yeah, but it's usually done not on the primetime show, like 6 o'clock instead of 8 o'clock. Yeah, but nobody cares because people are bringing their family members. Exactly. They're bringing their friends.

Is there money to be made in having a comedy class at the club? I mean, Noam, you don't make any money with that, but I think other clubs might. I don't know. That's another thing, too, right? Don't they do a last performance after all their classes?

Yeah, but maybe you take a cut of whoever you hired to be the comedy teacher. These are such small amounts of money. I don't know. I think these can keep the club going initially. So the Bringer Show, we used to have this dude, I forget his name,

he was a nice young man that used to do Bringer Shows like at 6 o'clock, do you remember? Yeah. This is years ago in the 90s. And we needed money at the time, my father allowed it. And then the second he didn't need it anymore, he stopped it because he thought that people were coming and they would think that's what the club was.

He thought this was kind of a double-edged sword. If you don't need it, you shouldn't do it. But we were not too proud to do it at the time. We needed the money, and it was some money. It was some money. But again... It's also a nice way to discover new talent, though, too, if you do those kinds of shows.

But the thing is, you're just taking on huge expenses. That's all. I've never seen a person picked up from a bringer. I mean, I'm sure it's possible, but I feel like the actual owners of pickers never look at those shows. When I used to do bringer shows, I thought that was what was going to happen,

but it wasn't. That's what they sell you. That's what they sell you, but it's a way to get on stage. No, but it's a way to get on stage, and it's a way to get on stage. No, but it's a way to get on stage and it's a way to get stage time. I don't know. I don't begrudge places for doing that. Like, when

you're just starting out, it's hard to get on stage. Nobody should begrudge a place for doing anything that they agreed to do. Right, right. Like, he only paid me $10. Well, you agreed to work for $10. Like, I never understood that. But, I mean, I guess in certain industries, in certain contexts, in certain times in history, I would not say such a thing.

But if you're a comedian and you need the stage time and somebody only wants to pay you $10, it's like you can't get mad. Then don't do it if you don't want to do it for $10. Obviously, often the clubs are operating very close to the bone, as you't do it if you don't want to do it for $10. Obviously, often the clubs are operating very close to the bone, as you must know from the comic strip. Yeah. I mean,

there were things that I saw that could be changed, could be run differently to increase revenue. But as a minority partner, you don't necessarily have the ability to do that. Did you know what I just read? Do you know what the net profit margin is for a

supermarket? That's got to be pretty close to zero. Pretty thin, I would imagine. But there's a lot of volume in a supermarket. Some of them operate at 1%. Yeah, it has to. Food is a very tiny profit margin. Can you imagine?

It's not just the food, it's the staff and the rent. That's insane. Do you know how easy it is to find yourself on the wrong side of the ledger when you're operating at a 1% profit margin? It's 1%, but it's 1% of $50 million.

So we're talking like half a mil. That's not a bad profit to take home. Actually, it is. It's a shitty profit to take home on 50 million dollars but you know how much work goes into generating that 50 million dollars all the things that can go wrong all the employees all the headache you know how much like can you imagine running a supermarket you're at the point where like you want to hire two extra people you'd think if you're making 50 if you're at the point where if you want to hire two extra people, you'd think if you're grossing $50 million, you can hire whoever you need. Increase your payroll,

raise it. No. They're at 1%. It's an insane... I was shocked. Maybe I just don't understand it. I was shocked to hear that. It is very low. The upscale places will operate on 2% or 3%. What percentage does a strip club make?

We'll never know. 30, 40%. We'll never know. It's all cash, right? Well, maybe that's a good option for one night at Dangerfields. There's a strip club nearby, but I don't see how we can connect the two. I'm sure your liquor license probably wouldn't allow it.

The neighborhoods are... Did you go before the community board? Oh, to have a strip? To have one night at the comedy club? Absolutely not. No, we're not doing that. I thought you meant because Sapphires is right around the corner. No, I didn't mean that. Okay, no, yeah, no.

We're not doing any nudity or stripping at our club. Let's keep the family, well... By the way, I was talking to the person, somebody at the stand, and they're trying to make their restaurant and bar, I mean, they've been trying to make it, in and of itself, a profit center, but she said that they were having difficulty doing that.

So the stand's a little different because it feels like more of a restaurant than a comedy club. You go in and you see the comedy stage all the way, you have to walk past the restaurant and bar. Yeah, but I don't know how much of a restaurant than a comedy club. Like you go in and you see the comedy stage all the way. You have to walk past the restaurant and bar. Yeah, but I don't know how much profit center that is. But I'm saying, you know, you have a... Theoretically, your bar at Dangerfields could be a separate profit center,

but I think that's tricky to do. Every comedy club tries to do that. If you're going to be a comedy club, you're a comedy club. No one's going to come to you just for like a... You're not going to fill it up on drinks at noon on a regular day. It's just not going to happen. Unless you have strippers there. We have to wrap it up.

Okay, I thought this was an interesting discussion. Mike, any thoughts? Me? Yeah. He's sleeping. It's actually interesting that you bring it up with Skankfest, because Skankfest was run by three people. Rebecca Trent, Christine Evans, and Lewis, and people were saying the same things to them about,

like, saying to you about your club. So they are analogous in that they weren't comics, but they were comedy fans, the Stan people, not Skankfest. Well, Lewis is a comic, but yeah. But everyone said they were going to fail. Oh, the Skankfest thing. But they started to, like, know them. They started off very small at Freaking the Cave.

And now they're a giant thing in Vegas. You know... The Skankfest. The Skank. I was confusing that with The Stand. That's an incredible accomplishment. But again, they started out small. That's right.

You know, Vinnie Brand, in terms of starting out small, Vinnie Brand, the owner of the Stress Factory in Jersey, started out just like renting out a room at the Hyatt Regency and and booking comics there and then eventually bought his own club so that's in line with Noam's starting small I mean this proposition yeah you know but but the stand started off I guess as a clue I mean they were doing their their cringe humor website but they started off with probably a pretty high rent operation. Gotham started off.

Gotham actually started off with a very nice room, smaller than the current room, but a very beautiful space that probably cost a fortune. And they pulled it off. Now, maybe it was a different time. I don't know. Maybe they had deep enough pockets to keep it going, but there's an example of a room that didn't start on a shoestring. The original Gotham was a beautiful room. I assume it was expensive.

And they pulled it off. Some people... And I don't know what you can attribute that to. Maybe it was a different time and comedy was... You know, it was about to... I don't know. But they did it. No, in the end, it's going to come down to the competence of the owner.

In other words, it's not going to work against you that you spent a million dollars to open the place. I'm not saying that's a negative. It's great to spend a million dollars and have the place beautiful, but you really put tremendous pressure on you right away to make money unless you have a lot of working capital besides. And then that pressure can often force you to make bad decisions because you start making short-sighted decisions

because you need money right away as opposed to allowing to take your time. You can't wait two years for this thing to build up because you've got to pay your rent now. You have to get your money back now. You have loans that have to be your time. You can't wait two years for this thing to build up because you've got to pay your rent now. You have to get your money back now. You have loans that have to be paid now. So there are dangerous dynamics. But I'm not saying because you spend all that money the place is worse off.

Right. And we have enough money to cover the first few years of rent. If it happened that we made zero for the first couple years. The rent is not the biggest expense. Right. It's payroll. Payroll. Food.

Insurance. Alcohol. Insurance. Right. Nobody thinks it's going to be a, you know, we didn't come in thinking it was going to be a cakewalk. So we're highly motivated. Is there anybody famous that has pledged to work there?

Well, we're actually reaching out to the people that got their start on Rodney's original, you know, Rodney's show. That's going back. Yeah, so it'd just be cool for like opening night, you know, like somebody like Dice or like... I like the name Minefield. Like Mine... Because it's a little dangerous. It's got fields. And comedians

are afraid of saying the wrong thing. It's like a minefield. Minefield comedy. That's actually decent. Not bad. I like that. And minefield has a little charisma to it. I mean, if I could slam gnome, I would do so, but I can't. It's actually a decent name. Something to put in the tickler file.

I'll ask for the Facebook group of the Upper East Siders. Don't tell them I suggested it, because they won't want it if it came from me. Don't ask them. Wouldn't that be interesting if the name... First suggest it. I'll suggest it because they won't want it if it came from me. Don't ask them. Wouldn't that be interesting if the name... First suggest it. I'll suggest it. Don't taint it by saying it came from me.

No, no, no, I won't suggest it. And then if it came from me and they don't want it, I... Wouldn't that be interesting if the owner of the comedy cellar came up with the name of a new competing club? That'd be awesome. But again, Noam is so confident in the dominance of the comedy cellar. I don't know what it is. It's like when a guy lets me talk to his girlfriend. No, you want to know what it really is? Do we have time? You can cut out some of the comedy seller. I don't know what it is. It's like when a guy lets me talk to his girlfriend.

No, you want to know what it really is? Do we have time? You can cut out some of the boring stuff. This is the truth of the matter. I've told this story probably before. When my father was alive. Sure, Dan, take her out. Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry.

When my father was alive, Ava, his wife, spent a tremendous amount of time creating these manager and waitress handbooks. And these things were a work of art. They had all our trade secrets in it, all the procedures, exactly what to do in this situation. I mean, like you could have published these. They were fantastic. And Bob Englehart, who used to own Panchitos, came in and he saw it.

And my father said, yeah, here, take a copy. Do what you want. And Ava freaked out. Like, how could you give him all that trade secret information? And my father said, it's not going to help him anyway. Because my father knew that it wasn't that easy that you could just read something

and therefore you got it right. And this is my attitude. If you are the type of guy who has it and you might be, then it doesn't matter what I tell you. It's not going to matter. And if you're not the type of guy who has it, then me being open with you is

not going to make a difference either. It's just not that easy. You have to have that in you. There's going to be a thousand different judgment calls that come your way all the time. And if you get high batting errors, then you'll be successful. It's not because I told you anything or didn't tell you anything.

That's why I feel. It's all about the details. But you have an ace in the hole. You have Dan Aderman who lives literally 20 blocks away. Now, again, no, make me an offer. For $200K, I'll be exclusive to the Comedy Cellar. Okay, I'm not saying a offer for 200K. I'll be exclusive to the comedy seller. Okay, I'm not saying a yes on that one.

You're being silent. No, but seriously. How much are you making now? Anyway. Well, obviously, that would be a step up. But, yeah. What am I saying? I'm saying that even if you're successful, I don't think that's going to hurt Noam at all.

You're hired. I hope not. It could hurt me. But, I don't think that's going to hurt Noam at all. You're hired. I hope not. It could hurt me, but like I said, it's really not. I just know that it's not going to, there's nothing I can do about it. If you fucking know what you're doing, there's no way I can stop you.

And if it hurts me, it's not going to hurt me because you're trying out to get me. That's business. I mean, like there are club owners who don't want to fucking punch you in the nose because they're underhanded and have actually done shit to me that didn't even hurt me.

Just the fact that they did such things, you know, I fucking hate them. But I don't hate people who are successful. Okay. Well, I think that was a real good episode. I think that was a tremendous episode. There is one thing. Why are we not getting more listeners? Maybe you will after this episode. There is one thing. Why are we not getting more listeners? Maybe you will after this episode.

You know, maybe we're not. Well, the one episode that got a shit ton of listeners was when Noam... Did you hear the Philip Bump episode? We have to go, Dan. Okay. Podcast at ComedySeller.com for all your comments, questions, suggestions. We thank Mark Yosef and we sincerely wish him good luck.

Well... Obviously, for me, I have nothing but We thank Mark Yosef, and we sincerely wish him good luck. Well. Obviously, for me, I have nothing but potential gain from a new comedy club, but Noam arguably doesn't. But in any case, we wish him luck. Thank you, everybody. Bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you very much.