The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Pete Holmes

Episode Date: December 17, 2015

Pete Holmes

Good evening everybody, welcome to the Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. We're here with Krista Montella, Dan Natterman, we have some guests coming down. We're here at the back table at the Owl Tree Cafe, which is right above the Comedy Cellar. And so what's up Dan, how was your week Dan? Well I was in Vegas. Was that better? Was what better? Was that better? That intro. Was that better? Yeah, that was your week, Dan? Well, I was in Vegas. Was that better? Was what better? Was that intro?

Was that better? Yeah, that was more reasonable, sure. Okay, go ahead. That was certainly a lot more reasonable than what you've done in the past. Okay, go ahead. I was doing a corporate gig. I don't know if we've talked much about corporate gigs on this show, but for the uninitiated, which I assume is most people listening,

a corporate gig is when a comedian does a show for a corporation that he's not paid based on how many people are in the seats, but the corporation pays him whatever they pay him, and it's a private show, and it usually pays pretty well. But it's very restrictive because... You might even add to that that people don't realize that comedians don't really make much money in the clubs. Even at my club, which happens to be the highest-paying club, the comedians don't really make much money in the clubs. Even at my club, which happens to be the highest paying club,

the comedians don't make much money. So they have to go out to get other work in order to make ends meet. Right. And so they do certain private events, and corporate gigs are more and more, right? I'm doing more corporate gigs because, as I may have mentioned, I don't know if I've discussed this, I can no longer do clubs psychologically. Maybe the day will come when I'll be able to go back to them. There's clubs generally at several days and many shows.

You mean like a headlining gig? A headlining gig at a club. It's just too many shows and too stressful. So there are chains of clubs that span the country, right? There's chains and then there's independent clubs. Right, but you can get booked at the improvs and you can do like 10 or 15 improvs around the country. Is that how it works?

I guess so. But again, I don't do many of those. They don't pay generally as well as a corporate gig and it's more work. And I just can't do it. I've hit the wall. But you can do like the Laugh House and, you know, Sogerties from Wednesday to Saturday.

But Dan cannot go in any stage where he imagines that they are anti-Semitic. It's true. He believes that outside of Manhattan everybody looks at him like a Jew. That's only a small part of my neuroses.

I just don't like being away for a long time. I don't even like doing corporate shows, but it's only one show. I do one show and I get the hell out of it. What was the corporation? It was an association of limo, taxi, and paratroop. You know what paratransit is? No. No.

Paratransit is transit for handicapped people. Oh. But my first joke was, because they like you to make a joke that's tailored to the particular organization. So I said, hey, somebody told me parrot transit. Why do parrots need their own transit? And then I...

Oh, parrots. I thought you said parra. It is parra, but that's the joke. The joke is parrot transit. Why do parrots... And then I did an imitation of a parrot saying, step on it. I thought it was cute.

Oh, Jesus Christ. Well, it's corny, but I thought... You run these things by me from time to time. I'm not a total idiot. Well, I had, you know, the point is I didn't say it was a good joke, but it was I thought it'd be, it's corny and I thought it'd be good for a few chuggles. But anyway. And it wasn't? Yeah, it is.

Oh, they left? No. But they're wrong and you're wrong. It's a funny cornball joke. You know what? I'm going to wait for Pete Holmes because that they're wrong and you're wrong is something's a funny cornball joke. You know what? I'm going to wait for Pete Holmes because that they're wrong and you're wrong is something I want to talk about. But go ahead. Continue. Normally at these gigs.

Gary Gorman. I had lunch today with Gary Gorman and he laughed. Now, you could say Gary laughs at everything I said and you'd probably be right. And he is biased in that regard. Dan, that's a terrible joke. So, anyways, did it go from bad to worse? How was it going? No, no.

Then I just did my regular shit that always works. But the thing about a corporate gig is you can't do, generally speaking, you've got to be a little bit cleaner. Not squeaky clean, necessarily. But you're not a dirty comic. No, but, you know, my joke about the uncle, the molesting uncle. You can't do that? I would hesitate to do that in that circumstance. That would have been fine.

You could do it for like an FDNY. He only says to be a good uncle, all you have to do is one thing. Not molest you. That's the premise and then the joke's a little more involved from there. So what happens at these gigs? That's pretty much it. But that's not the best part of the joke. I just want to be clear. That's just the premise. Are people like eating dinner?

It's really about the whole joke. No, it's not about the whole joke. Oh God, drop it. They were just finishing their dessert at the time. Now, it does depend. Sometimes there usually is a dinner. It's like a fundraiser of sorts.

Sometimes it's a fundraiser. Sometimes they get together. Sometimes it's just a reward for the employees because they've put in a good year and they've had a hell of a third quarter. They get to see Dan Natterman. All right. Well, they get to see Dan Natterman unless they want to spend real money, and then they can see somebody with a name. You know, I get paid what I get paid for for a nobody like me that's not particularly famous who's the name of the guy who won came second in America's Got Talent Tom Cotter he gets more money

they get Tom for more money for more money they might get you know they might get an Artie Lang say if they want to spend twenty thousand dollars maybe, maybe to $40,000. Pete Holmes is here, Dan. How do you do, Pete? We're just finishing up a discussion. We were talking about corporate gigs. Do you do corporate gigs? I do corporate gigs. And how do you find them?

I know a lot of comedians, and I'm one of them. It's mono, anyway. Find them a little bit stressful because you're not allowed to say whatever you want. You've got to be a little cleaner, and you've got to be a little more politically correct. I think it's funny, whenever comedians talk about political gigs, or political, sorry, corporate gigs, you want to be candid and say that they're horrible, but you also want to keep booking them. So even as you were speaking, you'd be like, you know, they're a little bit difficult.

They're a little tricky. You know, they're fucking terrible. I don't think they're terrible. They're nightmares. I've had like one good one. I don't think they're nightmares because it's one and done. Tell them your opening joke. Tell them your opening joke.

Well, if you insist. Sorry, by the way, I did an impression of you in like 13 seconds of seeing you. I'm so sorry. Well, they say it's the sincerest form of flattery. It is. It is. You're such a type. You're Dan Natterman. Speaking of imitation, Dan has a great parrot joke

He's about to tell Tell the joke on Kristen He's just giving away The punchline You learned nothing No wonder she shouldn't be here You just said The tell the death by Bamba joke

You know when people do that? Asshole It's about a parrot It's not going to make it Any worse or better I did it The corporate gig I did Was for an association of

limo drivers, taxi drivers, and parrot transit. Do you know what parrot transit is? Parrot transit. That's the joke. Parrot transit is transportation for handicapped people. I didn't mean to see it coming. I literally thought you said parrot transit. But that was the joke. I got up on stage

and I said, good to be here at the limo, taxi, and parrot transit association. But I was the joke. I got up on stage and I said, good to be here at the Limo Taxi and Parrot Transit Association. But I have a question. Why do parrots need their own transportation? That's good. Yeah, he likes it. Why is that good? My grandmother could have said that.

No, no, that's true. And a computer would get it. That's really the problem that humans have with a joke like that is a computer would understand it. Do you know what I mean? I guess. I'm not sure. No, explain, explain. Thank you. No. I couldn't

ask for a more vacant face from that. A computer understands wordplay. You load that into a fax machine it would be like, joke detected. You know what I mean? It would be like, paratransit sounds like paratransit. And humans typically don't like jokes like that. But I do. There you go.

But humans typically don't, Dan. You like it. So give our corporate gig of Xeroxes. It's one of those jokes that's so corny, it's good. That's what I'm saying. No, I agree. So Dan said when you were here, he said they're wrong and you're wrong. No, they didn't laugh hard to look at the joke.

I knew they didn't know them, and I said they're wrong. Well, no, I think here's the thing. Not that they're wrong, but I disagree. Again, you're just trying to get booked for them and I said they're wrong. Well, no, I think here's the thing. Not that they're wrong but I disagree. Again, you're just trying to get booked for more corporates. They were wrong. Say it, Dan.

In my mind, they were wrong. They should have been more Those dirty bastards. I have no problem with them. They were very nice. I just did a corporate

anytime I do a corporate they always tell you to be PG and I'm a fairly clean comedian meaning I like to swear but no joke I tell hinges on a joke or a body part or anything.

You know what I'm saying? Right. So it should be easy to go up and clean it up, but then they don't like it. You're going up and you're just like, hey, energy drinks. Those will wake you up, but they give you diarrhea and like no one's laughing. Then the second you say ass or shit, they laugh. Literally. I went to a Christian college and it's the same as performing for Christians.

If you flirt with something kind of you're not supposed to do, they love it. It's the same thing as doing a corporate. So one person, one older person probably on the board is like, Dan Natterman can do the gig, but I don't want him to say motherfucker. But if you did, standing ovation. The response you wanted for parrot transit. Right. That is true. But even then, you do have to

be a little bit more clean and politically correct than at a club. I want to ask you a question because I was having a conversation with the people doing the Patrice O'Neill documentary, and it kind of touched on this in a way. How many times and how many different audiences can you tell a joke

to, have it not succeed, and still say the joke is good? It's them. It's them. I think there's no limit on that. You know, I will throw a joke away after three times because as a practical matter, I don't want to bomb. No. But there are some jokes that I think are good.

Your jokes are so good. I email you all the time, and I'll be like, I'm still that amazing joke you have about the first half of the bed. I did. Look at our, you fucking ass. I'm trying to bless you and remember your goodness, and it goes right through you. No, but you don't email me all the time.

You emailed me several years ago. Every time we've emailed, I'll include, Dan, I love that bit. I always think about that bit, and you'll be like, you know, I haven't done it. Probably because it didn't work two times, and I'm remembering it. You've got to keep it alive.

But can a joke still be good if you can never get it to go over? I think what you do is you shelve it. I think, you know, it's probably more interesting. I want to know more what Dan says, but I have jokes that you don't have the performance chops to pull off or the full realization of your persona to pull off. You know what I mean? Like people don't know where it couches inside of your greater being.

So you're just a guy saying a joke like Parrot Transit. But then if you shelve it for 10 years and then you find the perfect place. Have you ever had that happen? Like a joke will return? I've had jokes that do come back. It's amazing. I've also had jokes at Vant that work and then stop working for some reason. That I can't not explain. But that's when you retire that and you bring come back. It's amazing. I've also had jokes at Vant that work and then stop working for some reason. That I can't not explain.

But that's when you retire that and you bring it back. There's this weird glimmer in your eye. Noam is asking a more philosophical question, which is, the philosophical question being is, what is the marker of a good joke? If it's not working,

by definition, it's not a good joke. No. According to Noam. Well, that's not what, by definition, it's not a good joke. Did it know? According to Noam. Well, that's not what you're saying. Is that what you're saying? No, that's his question. It's not what I'm saying, but I think there is something to that, unless you

can come up with a better explanation for why it's not going over. You know what I mean? It's like, where? That's why I actually think your joke, Parrot Transit, I wish it had worked. I can only do it when I'm performing for Parrot Transit. That's right. So therefore, and that's one situation that's a great joke.

And then like, you know, sometimes it's the wrong climate. Like, I think we go through phases. You see it in the movies. Like, oh,

we're slanting towards female-driven stuff now. It's like guy-driven stuff now. It's like group stuff. I think audiences have that sort of sixth sense as well. And maybe it's time to shelve a joke

and bring it back when the taste changes. I will say, look, if nobody likes the joke, I guess it would be hard to argue that it's a good joke. I have seen comedians. Paul, can I finish a thought here? I thought you, I thought.

No, I haven't. I was going to make an analogy. Okay, go ahead. Most people under a certain age can't stomach Mozart. I know I can't. But I'm not going to, I wouldn't dare say it was bad music. I can't listen to it. Can you, Pete Holmes?

I don't listen to Mozart, no, and I feel bad about it. But I don't like a lot of great things. I don't like the Beatles, but I'm with you. I don't think they're bad. So I wouldn't have the temerity to say Mozart stinks because a lot of people do like Mozart. But that's the thing, man, is some people, the joke that, like I have a joke right now.

I've been wondering if I would ever do it here. And it's a very silly joke. It's kind of like your paratransit joke. And I do it all the time, sometimes on the road, and it just won't work. And it's about how unicorns should be called unihorns. They have no corn. They have one horn. It's a very silly joke.

It's kind of like, I love it. No, I'm glad you laughed. It's my favorite joke, and I do it very incredulously. There's a lot of performance to it. And a lot of times it doesn't work. And I completely get it. No, I'm glad you laughed. It's my favorite joke, and I do it very incredulously. There's a lot of performance to it. And a lot of times it doesn't work, and I completely get it. Sometimes that wasn't what they needed in that moment. But it's like fucking. It's like you don't know what the right time is to switch up a thing,

and it doesn't mean that that was the wrong move with your lover. It just means you didn't do it in the right order, or it wasn't the right mood, or the music was wrong, or the opener was wrong. I've got a feeling that paratransit joke is going to find its way into Pete Holmes' act. I was hoping you were going to say, back into your act. I'm a good joke encourager.

I like doing that for people. I'll be like, you have that bit, you've got to bring it back. What I was going to say, I see some comedians for years stick by the same joke, which I have yet to see get a laugh. And I don't understand what's going on in their brains. Why don't they drop that? When are they going to get it? It doesn't work.

Here's a funny one, right? An illustration. John Mulaney. He's a perfect example. Always bombing that guy. A dear friend of mine, he had this bit about Donald Trump. And he always said that Donald Trump was like a hobo's idea of what a rich person was.

He's like, when my number comes in, I'm going to have tall buildings with my name written in gold. You know what I mean? It's like a cartoon. And there was this one line in there where he goes, I'm going to have fine golden hair.

Never got a laugh. I saw him all over the city. Fine golden hair. Never laughed, never laughed, never laughed. Probably only did it three times, but I saw him all over the city. Fine golden hair. Never laughed, never laughed, never laughed. Probably only did it three times, but I saw every time he did it. And I said to him, I was like, John, that's the line. That's the line that there's a hook to it. There's music to that line. I always caught myself remembering fine golden hair. So he was like, all right. He kind of sounds like you, but up an octave. He's like, all right, I'll do it. I'll keep doing it. He does it on Conan.

Fine golden hair, all but an applause break. Like the biggest line of the routine. That's what, I just talked about this with Atel and Todd Berry. We're products of our environment, but we have to be aware of other environments. If you're performing in the middle of like Gangbuster, you're following Louie and, you know, going here and you do my stupid fucking unicorn joke. Might not be the hot and heavy approach that they need for that moment but if you're doing a late night spot where it's kind of fun to be cute and you know what I mean like it's a little bit safer to be four o'clock in the afternoon for Christ's sakes nobody's drinking they might enjoy fine golden

hair a little bit more uh at this point like Donald Trump is not just a rich man. Like Donald Trump is almost like what a hobo imagines a rich man to be. You know, it's like years ago, Trump was walking through an alley and he heard some guy just like, oh boy, oh boy. As soon as my number comes in, I'm going to put up tall buildings with my name on them. I'll have fine golden hair and a TV show where I fire people with my children. And Trump was like, that is how I will live my life. Thank you, hobo, for that life plan. I bet you when Donald Trump makes a decision, he thinks to himself, what would a cartoon-rich person do? Put a billboards of my face everywhere.

That's a good idea. And sometimes, I would imagine in a longer form thing, the line can still be entertaining. It doesn't need a laugh to be memorable or part of the vibe of the whole thing. That is brilliant. That really is a big thing. I've had people come to see me and I get off and I'm like, Jesus, that was terrible. And a lot of times they'll say the same thing, which was, everyone was really enjoying it.

But we want that. It's like, if you're enjoying it, make a fucking sound. You know what I'm talking about? It's crazy. I used to have this argument with my musicians. I don't know if it would be interesting. I used to lead a band. And I would always have this internal idea of whether something was good or not.

And sometimes that wouldn't always match like an applause meter reading of the audience. And I would get in fights with the musicians. Look, this really isn't good. But they clapped. They were clapping. And I said, well, you know, you can end any song with this. With your hands out. And they'll clap.

Yeah. But that doesn't mean that all the shit that came before was so good. We know. We know. And sometimes people will truly enjoy something. And you just have to feel that they enjoyed it. You can't always measure it. And Dan actually gets upended sometimes when the audience doesn't laugh as loud as he

wants them to and I tell him Dan they loved you you know. Yeah there is a point. Wait a minute wait a minute usually it's the opposite I think they love me and you were like yeah but Greer did better. Well Greer always does better. That's not usually exclusive Dan. There's a comedic equivalent to what you're saying about music which is

the comedians that figure out the cadence and stuff you know what I mean? Where you have a certain type of talking, and you know that I'm done. And people will laugh, and it's almost Pavlovian or something. Yeah, my father used to hate that. And then there's also what I call thank you very much humor,

which is like where you tell, I'm sorry to keep saying parrot transit, but if you go, why do parrots need all their different types of transportation? Thank you very much. Thank you very much becomes the joke. It becomes the final chord in a song

and the humor comes in. That's what he prepared and we're kind of delighted by that. Pete Holmes' new show. By the way, do you know Sean McCarthy? Sean L. McCarthy.

I'm the only one that calls him Sean L. I think that's funny. He's a black guy. Sean writes the comics comic. That's not offensive, is it? Sean, we'll get to him in a bit, yeah.

That's what I was going to say. And because you, I think he thinks he's not allowed to chime in. You are allowed to chime in. Well, I was waiting to be introduced. So he writes the comic. That's not offensive, is it? Sean, we'll get to him in a bit. I think he thinks he's not allowed to chime in. You are allowed to chime in. Well, I was waiting to be introduced. So he writes a comic, which is a well-known website dedicated to comedy nerds.

Journalists. You went to Princeton, right? For four years, yes. I had no idea you went to Princeton. Suddenly impressed. Game changer. For some reason, yes. Well, you know, I had no idea you went to Princeton. Yes. Suddenly impressed. Yes. Change. Game changer.

For some reason, I was thinking, you know, certainly not Princeton. I don't know why. Actually, to me, to be honest. What air did I give off? It's weirder to me that you went to Princeton. Like, obviously, if anybody comes out of Princeton, it's quite marketable. You could be making a lot of money doing something. Is that true?

And I'm not saying you're destined to, but I don't think the comic is paying you the kind of money that you could have been making at any job that you could have printed on a resume. Correct. Is that true? But you'll love it. Well, I was a newspaper reporter for about 15 years. He was a newspaper man.

Because I graduated the final year that that seemed like a viable career, which was 1993. Oh, you're the opposite of an outlier. You're an inlier. You graduated right when it was the least relevant. Right when the internet began to overtake publishing. If I had graduated two years later, the web would have been a thing,

and I would have realized, oh, I should be doing that instead. Right, interesting. But, you know, there's still a way to do it. You do it online. So that's what I'm doing. Let's get more into that later and talk about Pete's show. But I do find, so the whole, I'm going to get back to it, but the whole community of people who are in love with stand-up comedy

and hang on every comedian, it fascinates me. And I don't get it at all. No, I truly don't. But you're thankful for it. That's not the majority of the crowd that comes to the Comedy Cellar. 95% of the Comedy Cellar crowd are not what you're just describing. No, that's not true. I think that's changing. That is not true at all.

And I was coming around. Isn't it? Look, I don't do a poll when they come out of the door, but my sense is a lot of them are- Maybe weekend shows. Casual comedy. But I had an actual segue here, Dan. Actually, I saw- No, no, I'm sorry. Is it about Mozart?

No, but the guy who also was like that apparently growing up was Judd Apatow. Now, there's a segue. Who at a young age was going around interviewing comedians, transcribing bits off TV, Saturday Night Live bits that he thought he might never be able to see them again. There was no VCR. There was no anything like that, right? Sure. He was one of the pioneer comedy nerds.

So he's like a kindred spirit to you. So if you have a movie pitch in the year 2030, please let me know. Okay. And now Judd is producing a new pilot for HBO featuring Pete Holmes. That's right. And I want to ask you about,

guys, I want to tell you one thing that you don't know. So Judd Apatow was right here. Yeah. And Dan Natterman on his phone, he Googles a picture and he says, Louis B. Mayer, now that's a producer.

Did you do this? Did you really do that? He really did. Yes, but... That's a producer. What I meant by that is that he was a big, fat Jew with a cigar in his mouth.

And to me, that's a producer. Louis, now that's a producer, What I meant by that is that he was a big, fat Jew with a cigar in his mouth. And to me, that's a producer. That's a producer, he said. Anyway, so tell us about... You're going by the Looney Tunes standard. I'm going by the standard of this character. I'm making a motion picture. Judd Apatow in his whole life has never said, I'm making a picture. If the world were what your voice sounded like, he would act that way.

Judd Apatow is a very nice guy that never had the decency to have sex with a leading lady. I mean, you know, he's so respectful of women. He's a very sweet man, good father. I mean, what kind of producer

is this guy anyway? Go ahead. How did this show come about and what's it about? Well, he's married to a leading lady. He is married to a leading lady. Shut up, everybody. Just the one.

But he was probably very respectful when he asked her out. Next. How did the show come about? I had a talk show on TBS, and it was canceled months before it was announced. So I knew it was going to be taken off. Oh, scoop.

Excoopsive. What was it called? The Pete Holmes Show. I'm talking like you. It's just fun. It is fun. Every time I get nothing from you. Anyway, you give me nothing. Anyway, I had a show called The Pete Holmes Show. It's just fun. It is fun. Every time I get nothing from you. You give me nothing. Anyway,

I had a show called The Pete Holmes Show. It was on after Conan. It was wonderful. And we found out that we weren't coming back. We could talk about that. But anyway, we kind of hit the ground running. Before the show was even off the air, I had this other idea that I came up with around that time.

I think the trauma of the show getting canceled actually fueled my creativity a little bit. I was like, all right, well, what am I going to do now? So the show's still on the air. I think that's kind of a fun part of the story. I realized what is, you know, cancer diagnosis. You only have five years to live. What is the show that you would really like to make?

The cancer diagnosis is not that you're making that up. That's not the show. I'm just saying. That's the movie Funny People. Yeah, that that up. That's not the show. I'm just saying, like... That's the movie Funny People. Yeah, exactly. It's not cancer. It's a rare blood disease, but yes. Appetown nerd.

But the idea, you know, what is the story? Everybody probably has one really great story that they're kind of made to tell. And I feel like mine was about being a religious kid, got married to the first person I ever dated, ever slept with, all that sort of stuff. Got married when I was 22. Had sex with her before you got married?

We did. That's a good question. We did, but that was very kind of like hush-hush, you know what I mean? I will say the first time she went down on me, this is completely true, we knew we were going to get married. That was like our engagement blowjob. It's completely real. There was no ring.

I'm telling you, she went down on me, and I swear I was like, I got to call a caterer. It sounds completely real. There was no ring. I'm telling you, she went down on me and I swear I was like, I gotta call a caterer. It sounds like a bit. We started looking for places because I was like, you don't do that unless you're gonna marry the person. How old are you? I'm 36 now. How old were you? I was 22. When she blew me I was probably 21. And she was

23. Oh, so older than you. Yeah, so a little bit older. She had actually been with other people. So anyway, we get married. Six years later, very sweet, very safe, very loving. We were good friends. People are always, I kind of get offended on behalf of my comedian brethren. People are always like, oh, she probably, because we got split, she probably left you because you were always out working the clubs and all that stuff.

And it wasn't that at all. We just weren't quite right for each other. I was like a baby boy. You know what I mean? I was very naive, very, very sweet. So she ends up having an affair, and that's where the show starts. With somebody you knew?

I did know the guy, yeah. She was a teacher, and she fell in love with this other teacher guy. So the show is a riff on these true events, but it's certainly different. I have to say that. But it takes place in the comedy world. But yeah, well, so here's...

That's kind of the long explanation, but the short explanation is, I just got divorced. We're all playing kind of like regressed versions of ourselves, if it's convenient. Meaning I'm an open mic-er. So my wife leaves me, and I'm living upstate. And once she leaves me, I have nowhere to stay, so every episode is me

staying on the couch of a different comedian. So every episode would be like crashing, it's called crashing, Dan Natterman would be like the name of the episode. You know what I'm saying? And the comedians are going to play themselves? Comedians play themselves, everybody plays themselves.

Does it explore the world of stand-up? Yeah, I actually think, I'm pretty excited to think that we might be the first people to show that process of open micing to barking to bringers and to like paying your dues and your first road gigs and all that. I'm very glad by the way that this show is not being called Poems

because there's just too many damn shows with the name of the comics. Louie, Marin, was it Mulaney? And it was the Pete Holmes show. So you're absolutely right. This one's called Crashing. Now, how many shows... Now, here's another question.

There's now so many shows about the world of stand-up comedy, different aspects of the world of stand-up comedy, but, you know, you have... Well, Mulaney was about a stand-up comic. Barely. Does anyone know that? I don't know. I'm not even fooling around with you. That show opened with him doing stand-up as himself in front of the set.

And then it was loosely alluded to the fact that he did stand-up. He was a comedy writer on that show. But Louis is a comic. Marin is. Louis is absolutely the number one. Like when you pitch this show and when I pitch this show, you basically had to tell people why it wasn't Louis. Louis, yeah.

Yeah. But how many shows about stand-ups can the public support? I can answer that, Dan. Yeah, go ahead. As many as are funny. Yeah, good answer. How many sitcoms can we do about a married couple and their kids? How many can they stand as many as they want?

How many cop shows can we have? How many shows about cops? That's right. I don't think this show, comedy is in the background of this show. It really is about a, it's a coming of age story. I know people say that a lot, but I was a very, very naive person. And these characters that we're having on the show are actually the people that taught me a lot about not just comedy, but how to like be a grown person. So it's kind of fun and very surreal to cast some of those people in these roles. I mean, it's a jumping off point that you're a

comedian or whatever it is, but each show is special in its own way. You want a job where you don't want to be like, why isn't he at work? You know what I mean? And you don't want to see me just doing some mundane thing necessarily. I think people have a pretty big stomach for, like, family guy. Like, what does Peter Griffin do?

You know what I mean? Like, we don't know. It's just a funny show. The show puts comedy in the background, but comedians are in the foreground. Absolutely. I would say, first, you know, we haven't made it, so I kind of have to see what happens. And that's actually unique. Like, you could have made Seinfeld not a comedian, taken out the seasons where he started with stand-up comedy,

and the show would not have been one until a less effective thing. I think he could have been a writer or something. He could have been anything. You know, Costanza in the pilot was a stand-up as well. would not have been one until a less effective thing. I think he could have been a writer or something. It counts that they were in, you know, Costanza in the pilot was a stand-up as well. Oh.

It's never referenced, but that was how it was written. Isn't Gerard Carmichael's show, isn't Gerard a stand-up, but it's never referenced? I don't think so. Oh, is that what it is? I watched two episodes.

I don't know what he does. Right. Is it called Carmichael or Gerard? It's called Carmichael's show. Is it? Yeah. Oh, gosh.

They've given up. But it's all about his homeland. Again, it's called Carmichael Show. Is it? Yeah. Oh, gosh. They've given up. But it's all about his homeland. It's all about the homeland. Again, it was the Lucille Ball show. It was the Jack Benny show. This is not new. Seinfeld, Cosby. Yeah, but then there was a period where that stopped.

Wings. And they've also given up on the TV theme song. Marital Amour. They've given up on. There's no time. There used to be more time. The theme song used to be, this was great music. Great music?

You remember the Dallas theme song? That was not one of the great themes. This is like when Chappelle does two hours on stage. Around the 90-minute mark, he just sits down, smokes a cigarette, and goes, Remember theme songs? And just has people sing one. Does he have a theme song bit? I've literally seen him go, like, what's your favorite cereal?

Talk about that for 20 minutes. I'm not shitting on him. It's hilarious. Even in Pat Chappelle's show. But now a theme song, there's no theme song. There's no time. They don't want to give up time. Louis, like, Louis for a while cut out the whole comedy seller. Yeah, there's no time. They don't want to give up time. Louis, like, Louis for a while cut out the whole

comedy seller, no, more than one season, cut out the whole comedy seller intro to the show. Yeah. And I kind of actually felt that it was going to happen

because it's usable time. Why does he want to devote it to it? Well, if you look at The Simpsons, when The Simpsons came out in like 1994 or whatever it was, there was the long intro.

There were the several gags. There was the chalkboard gag and there was, you know, the different things. And now, if you watch The Simpsons, out in 1994 or whatever it was. There was the long intro. There were the several gags. There was the chalkboard gag, and there was the different things. And now, if you watch The Simpsons, it just goes through the pee, and Homer's running into the house because there's no time. It gives up time. And they have more commercials already. The Cheers theme song. And fewer episodes in a season.

Yeah. The Cheers theme song was a great song that really enhanced the brand. Mary Tyler Moore was a great theme song really enhanced the brand. Mary Tyler Moore was a great theme song. A lot of great themes. Oh, we agree. I think, you know, what we need to do

is go back to your streaming idea where there is no, you know what I mean? Like, there's such an appeal to going to a streaming thing because you can have like a 33-minute episode because there's no syndication.

Just to get the theme song. And you could have a four-minute theme song. You could have Dan Aderman talking about theme songs for five minutes if you want. Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt when it came out, everybody raved about the theme song. Yep.

Daredevil. Great opening sequence. Shows that are on HBO and stuff like that, they can have theme songs because there's no commercials. So you have Homeland, that has a very Walking Dead. I mean, that has commercials. But there are still songs. True Detective was a great one. True Detective, great one.

Sopranos. Sopranos had a great one. Yeah. Yeah, but you fast forward. Once you see the guy with the axe, you press play. So where are we? You are correct. You've got a pilot.

The pilot is being made. You know, it's just they really don't have any idea if it's going to work or if it's not going to work. Yeah, you hear stuff like that. And I don't know that I would do any better. There was a TV movie about... I forgot what it was called, where they hired a monkey to decide whether the pilot gets picked up or not. Like, they found a monkey, they put a monkey in front of the TV, and if he clapped really loud, they knew that they should pick it up.

Yikes. I got to look that up. And you think that's what it really was like? Sorry. It's interesting, though. I don't think it's that far off. It's like when Malcolm Gladwell writes about the guy, there was a therapist that could predict whether or not people would get divorced with like an 80, 90% accuracy.

He was like, but it's a 50-50 call. You know what I mean? So you're only doing, so the monkey is kind of going like, yeah, no, yeah, no. It probably is yeah, no, yeah, no. I think there are certain people, just like, you know, Ohio. There's some states which somehow have a certain sensibility which always seems to represent the population. The Bellwethers.

I think Bellwether, I guess so. I don't know what it is. So there are certain people, I believe, if it entertains them, they reverberate in a certain way. And they can kind of solicit. If I like this, it's probably 80% of the country is going to like it. Right.

And you have to find those people. For the life of me, by the way, I can't find that TV pilot about the monkey that picks pot. Oh, my God. It might have been a false memory that was implanted by Mia Farrow. By a monkey.

I was reading in a... We lost you for five minutes just to come back. It's kooka-ling. We're used to it here. I'm pretty sure that... no, but I was trying to find that pilot. I'm pretty sure I didn't dream it. I was reading, I think what you were thinking about was

a stock market, picking stocks. No, I'm pretty sure it was TV pilots. But if anybody knows what I'm talking about, feel free to tweet. I was reading today in a Beatles book. Apparently Brian Epstein, you know the guy, the Jew who discovered the Beatles? Well, he owned record stores.

And he would hear a song on the radio, and he would buy 1,000 copies of the record. When people who would work with him would say, what are you buying? And they said that reliably, any song that he liked would become a huge hit. And it quickly became the most successful record store in England. That's six cents. That instinct. But what else could it be except he liked that song? But there has to,

that's, again, well, it's interesting. I wonder what you think as a club owner and having your hand in all this. There's an art to the watching

and the appreciating and going, this guy feels right here and this person does. It's not just like, man, this guy's not getting laughs, you know what I mean? I don't know.

We were talking to Eddie, well, we were talking to Eddie Brill, was it last week or two weeks ago? Yeah, two weeks ago. And he was talking about all the things that are going into choosing the comedian for the Letterman Show, what's right for them. And I said, you know, you could just put an applause meter down there.

If you just booked the comedians who get the highest score on the applause meter, you probably would not do badly booking the Letterman Show. You know, I can't say there's enough. I would like every one of them, but... It's a little bit off topic. Late night television would change if people did what Leno did, and I did it on my talk show, and I believe Seth Meyers does it.

And I believe I told Seth Meyers to do it. I don't know if it's why he did it, but I was like, if I can tell you one thing to do on your late night show, tell the band to take five before the comic comes out. During the commercial break, there's a built-in time.

If there's a stand-up, come out. And I used to do this speech, and I was like, hey, my friend Dan Aderman is on the show. He's going to come out. Please. It's going to be weird that another person is coming out

and standing on my mark and telling jokes. It's going to seem like a foreign body, and you're going to release antibodies and it's going to feel unnatural. He doesn't have time to win you over. Laugh at his first joke. Make him feel welcome.

Make this the show that comedians want to come on. Go nuts like he's your favorite when he walks out. There wasn't a comedian that had a bad set on my show. So to your point, better than an applause meter, some sort of buffer. It's like the weirdest thing to airdrop into a late night show. You're talking to Bono. Then you're talking to the guy, the new Blade.

And then all of a sudden you're like, ladies and gentlemen, Dave Attell. Like, what the fuck? And he doesn't come out to the couch and he walks out. And there's like old ladies from Iowa City. You are absolutely right. Just tell them it's okay to laugh and it's so much better. Watch Seth Meyers. I'm pretty sure Seth does it. Those comedians

I'm going to say it's 60% better than if no one did that. And Leno too. Ralphie May got huge standing ovations. I think it has something to do with the fact that Leno would come out and be like Hey, these guys are my friends and I'm a comedian. Couldn't pass that one up.

You're doing Natterman to Natterman. I hope, Jay, you're listening. I think, you know, it's analogous. Sometimes some band will be doing a lot of rock songs and then they just do a ballad. And it goes over. But it's something like season performer, like a spring scene or something.

He will set up a song. He'll come, he'll talk to the audience. And create an interest in the audience, an expectation. Oh, let's perk up. Let's get on tippy toes, as it were, and pay attention to what's about to happen. It's like a ball game if you know

that the pitcher and the batter hate each other. You know what I mean? It's so much more captivating. A little bit of a backstory. That's right. Just make them want to, because otherwise they can tune it out and not pay attention. I agree with you. What's right. Just make them want to make them, because otherwise they can tune it out or not pay attention.

I agree with you. But what's that? Sean L. McCarthy. Sean McCarthy. So listen, what about the Jeffrey Gurian-Sean McCarthy feud? I want to know about that. Is there one? Is there one?

There better be. Isn't there one? Don't you tread on the same turf? There's a few. No. Just to review, Sean. Do you know Jeffrey Gurian? I do.

Have you been interviewed by him? I have. I am extremely angry with that guy, but go ahead. So you have a feud. Well, maybe we should have him on to discuss it. I don't know. You have a feud and you want to project it onto me. Yeah, he wants you to give him a platform to discuss the feud.

Comedy doesn't have any really prestigious media. Like, you know, in the world of music you have Spin, you have Rolling Stone. Yeah, you have Billboard Magazine. Billboard Magazine. Comedy has a patchwork of blogs and leaflets and pamphlets and... And McCarthy

is one of them. It's called the Comics Comic. That was a great intro. It's like a hobo soup of bullshit. But he's the big boot in the middle. I don't even think that's true. AV Club is huge. Who else?

Yourself. Well, what is AV Club? But that's not a comedy news outlet. That's the Onion Arts and Entertainment. That was really funny. In a world of flyers, he's a glossy one. Well, I'm just saying, but it's true. We don't have a Rolling Stone.

We don't have a spin. BuzzFeed. Do we or do we not? Yeah, BuzzFeed. HuffPost comedy. Now we have every magazine website trots out its own variation on comedy coverage. HuffPost comedy, yeah. And what I was going to say, but nobody let me finish.

Oh, really? Is that here to break the mold and bring comedy into respectability is Mr. Sean. I call him Red Fleece McCarthy. One time I wore a red fleece. One time he wore a red fleece, and the whole night I was going, red fleece. Some say he still haunts these woods. I made him into a folk hero. But anyway. Dan, I want to let you finish, but you have to finish.

I'm finished. Okay. You bring up a very valid and personal point for me. When I moved here, I was in Boston beforehand at the Boston Herald. And at the time in 2005. A tabloid. Both the Boston Herald tabloid and the Boston Globe broadsheet. It doesn't fold in the middle.

Both the Globe and the Herald had weekly comedy columns. So it was a rare thing to see the newspapers cover comedy on a weekly basis in the newspaper. When I moved to New York, there really wasn't any of the thing. And I went to Entertainment Weekly. I went to Comedy Central. I tried to plead a case to these people that comedy deserved to be covered the same way you covered up-and-coming bands. Al-Qaeda. ISIS.

The next hot band. Other types of bums. Entertainment Weekly is willing to go to all these film festivals and cover these independent films or these bands at South by Southwest. I want to hear some stories about comedians now. Okay. And Jeffrey Gurian. What do you want to know about Pete Holmes? Well, first of all, I was very impressed

if I could just finish my thought. Oh, my God. I know it's a little bit... What is this podcast? You're right, Pete, and you're absolutely correct. You've hit upon something very important.

It's therapy for Dan. That's what it is. It's, you know... Dance therapy, Sasha. Unfortunately, democracy does not work in a podcasting context. How can we help you?

And there has to be a dictator. How can Pete and I service you? Well, I don't know that you can't service me. But the thing is, is Sean McCarthy being friends with all the comics? Sean L. Sean L.

You know, he has a tendency maybe to be a little too nice in his articles. But he took... It is hard to be mean. It's hard to be mean. But he did face down... We had him on a show. What the hell is his name? Oh, this is great. Ari Shafir. Oh, but he did face down. We had him on a show. What the hell is his name? Oh, this is great.

Ari Shafir. Oh, because he was mean to that girl? Because he was mean to that. Tell us what happened. What happened with Ari Shafir? In no uncertain terms, said Shafir is a no-goodnik. Well, it was just unnecessary meanness and cruelty to lash out at another comedian in a special. In a special, kind of, for no reason.

He had a bit where he was talking about a girl being a whore or something. Ugly and fat. Ugly, fat. Like, basically, someone's an ugly, fat whore. We don't have it quite right. And I'm talking like Natalie again. It's very contagious. But then he says her name for no reason. And even if there is a joke, the joke is,

I didn't have to say her name, but I did. Right. So then, of course, it was unkind. And you took him to task? Yeah, I did. I thought it was very unnecessary. And Comedy Central didn't have to air it. Yeah, you know, at that point, you might even want to just cut it out.

Right. It's a six-second edit. Now, I want to ask you, you compare comedy to music. What is it about stand-up comedy which makes you feel that it's an art form, like right up there with the Beatles and things like that? You remind me of a talent, all these guys. You're one of those guys that's kind of like, I smell it, I smell it everywhere, and I'm not buying it.

Why? What makes this a? I'm going to go on stage in 20 minutes and be like, my dick has one eye. He's got no depth perception. Exactly. And you're in the back like, Picasso, you are nuts. So you're looking for it. You're looking.

It's great. There is this subset of people. Listen, he gave up Princeton to write about comedians. First of all, you're exaggerating. I know a lot of people that went to Yale, Princeton. Just go with it, Dan. That can't make a living. No, but you're saying it's patently false.

Just fucking go with it. Ryan Hamilton. It's patently false. People that go to Princeton, if they're majoring in liberal arts, they may not get any job. But certainly plenty of my classmates went to Wall Street or went into consulting. If you want to go to Wall Street, sure, you can make money. Dan, please, for the love of God, just shut up for a second, okay? He has an Ivy League degree.

So do I. Couldn't do anything with it. My first job out of Princeton. And you love comedy so much, obviously, that you want to live and breathe it, and you hold the artists that you cover on the highest level with the great artists of every art. Correct? Am I correct? Comedians are saying the things that regular people wish they could say out loud.

Or sometimes are unwilling to look at the world in a real way. You mean paratransit? Not real people don't want to say that? Some comedians. But seriously, folks. I mean, have you ever thought about this philosophically? I would rather hang around comedians than civilians or regular people because

comedians are willing to look at the world and talk about it. I'm completely an art person, absolutely. I think there's a deep art in dick jokes, I really do. Well, a good dick joke there would be, sure. I agree.

I think there's something unspoken, Freudian, terrifying, neurosis building. It's right, there's an undercurrent of all this stuff, dick, envy, and shit, and women, and inferiority, and when a good comedian gets up there and tears that down with satire and with filth,

I think that's gorgeous. I think that really is the stuff of art. It's cathartic. This is my issue with it. I always think about this. Like, Beethoven's Symphony or something like that. Yeah. This exists on a page, and it's clearly genius, right? I mean, anybody knows. Nobody could do this.

But what I do notice in stand-up comedy is that quite often it's not apparent that somebody is a genius until after they become famous. That's interesting. Like, I don't want to say any names, but there are people down there. We used to see them every day. Oh, they're funny. Not that we thought they sucked. And then all of a sudden, they become huge. And in retrospect, oh, they're geniuses.

But if they're geniuses like a Beethoven, why? Like, when you see real genius in music or in a painting, you don't need to be told. Those are prodigies. Is there any comedian that you feel that you could take their act, show it to someone who's never heard of them, and somebody could identify, no, that's special, that's genius, that's as different from everyone else's comedy. Pryor's one. For sure. Are there others? Chappelle. And Chappelle is one. Are there others? Chappelle.

I think, and Chappelle is like one of the, he's one of our Beethovens. Can you separate Chappelle's persona from his material? I think so. I think you can see it. There's a shimmer that certain people have. And I used to hate when people said that. Because I would bark at the Boston. Remember the Boston?

People would always come around and be like, this is where Chappelle started. You could just tell. You could just tell. And I was there and I thought I was great. Nobody was saying that I was great come around and be like, this is where Chappelle started. You could just tell. You could just tell. And I was there, and I thought I was great. Nobody was saying that I was great. And I was like, you motherfuckers. You're all going to say that shit when I blow up. I have to say that Chappelle was one of the biggest impacts

the first time he took the stage. I mean, he was like 19 when he first came down here, and everybody was buzzing about him. So he'd been doing it for 10 years. Probably. So Chappelle is a good example. And sometimes asking questions not because, I don't want the question for you to,

for any meaning. You know what I think? I mean, who I think is, you know, if there is genius in stand-up, and I don't know if there is, but I think that Rick Shapiro approaches it. And he was downstairs the last time he was here and he couldn't buy a laugh. There's an example

of somebody that couldn't buy a laugh here and yet I think is brilliant. What do you think of Rick Shapiro? I know what you're talking about. I haven't seen Rick enough to comment on that, but I do think... What does the Comics Com I think of Rick Shapiro? I haven't seen Rick in years. Somebody with a slight mental illness who has the good sense to do it on stage,

I wouldn't call that genius. You look at it as mental illness, but you don't get it. Most doctors would agree. Well, he might be mentally ill. Slight, I said slight. But there's brilliance to what he's saying, and it's completely unique and different. Yes, it is unique and different. And I think it's real art.

You're talking about fine art, too. Sorry to interrupt, but I really think we're making a distinction. When you look at an abstract painting, which is probably a little bit more like what stand-up is, you know, and then you look at something that's like photo-realistic, it's very easy, and I'm with you, to say, well, this one is clearly art. Anyone

would agree. You could take a time-traveling caveman and show it to him, and he'd be like, oh my god, that is impossible to do. How did you do that? But difficulty, this is why people don't like photography. You know what I mean? I take a photo of you and I put a nice filter on it and it looks gorgeous. Is that art? We don't like it because I just pushed a button. But stand-up is also kind of in one of those ethereal areas where I'm really just going up and speaking and saying these things that I've prepared on one level, but on another level, and as a musician, I think you can appreciate you're building, and I shouldn't be talking this way beforehand.

It's actually a superstition of mine. I'm going to bomb tonight. You're trying to build an experience. It's a little bit like lovemaking. You're feeling that energy, and you're giving your energy, and there's this flow, and a group of people become an audience, and a performer and an audience become a show, and that is a really difficult thing to do. I know so many genius, great writers

that can't do it as stand-ups. I know stand-ups that don't have any discernible jokes. They're kind of like our Pollocks that can destroy. I've seen Godfrey downstairs just bullshitting and destroying because he has this weird X factor going on, you know what I'm saying? So I think we need to get, or maybe one option is to get a little bit looser in how we define art.

Because it doesn't have to be the perfect comedian that goes up, one-liner, knocks him on the ass, it's musical cue, rips off the costume, you know, like, holy shit, that was Blue Man Group, you know what I mean? That's easier to say that was a work of art. But I really think that, you know, great comedy can be art. So I have an iTelephone. I have an iTelephone. Thank you. Which means I have Google on my phone. I'm guessing a lot of you do. I have Google on my phone now. It's ruining our lives. I don't know if you've noticed it's ruining life because we know everything but we're not a lick smarter for it. We just know. You don't know something?

Wait two seconds. You will know. Having Google on your phone is like having a drunk know-it-all in your pocket. There's no time for mystery or wonder. You're just like, how do they make glass? Yeah, yeah, yeah? And you know.

But the time between not knowing and knowing is so brief that knowing feels exactly like not knowing. So life is meaningless. I've literally been in bed in the morning alone, just like, where's Tom Petty from? But I feel nothing because there was no time to not know. Listen to me. There was a time, and I don't mean to get all Andy Rooney on you, but there was a time that if you didn't know where Tom Petty was

from, you just didn't know. And you felt that yearning and that deficit in your being. And you'd go around and ask actual people, Like, where's Tom Petty from? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And now I'm impregnated with wonder. And then they go and ask people. Until one fateful day, you see a girl wearing a Heartbreakers t-shirt. You rush up to her and you're like, hey, where's Tom Petty from? And she tells you, Florida. And a wave of endorphins and pleasure and meaning would wash over you. And you felt something. And that's how you met your wife. Do you understand?

Your wedding song was Refugee. Thank you very much, everybody. Good night. Thank you. I think it clearly is art. I just find it a hard field to really determine who are the, if genius is a kind of an outlier in a population, who are the Michael Jordan.

It seems hard because you can only be able to tell the retrospect. We always knew Louis was a great comic, but we didn't realize he was a genius until he was writing screenplays and characters and subtle things and coming around. But then also, Louis adapted and changed. Like, Amy is an amazing comedian, but she's the same comedian she was 10 years ago, and that's to say she was great 10 years ago.

So what happened? A lot of things happened. Resurgence of interest in feminism? What I think Noam is trying to say is, is there a Beatles in stand-up comedy? Is there a Rolling Stones? People that are so head and shoulders. The Beatles have a hundred hits.

Woody Allen writing crimes and misdemeanors? I get it. Who could do that? But what I'm saying is there's a time and a place and a season for these things. So Woody Allen or the Beatles doing those things in that time, in that place. My point about Amy was she was doing this type of act ten years ago.

But no one's going to compare Amy. Can I tell you the other problem? And then the zeitgeist catches up, and then we find our person to hang it on. I'm going to tell you another problem, and this might be my own thing. We all have friends that crack us up. Crack us up more than, like, we could be hysterical laughing at just some friend of ours who's being hysterically funny. So it seems

ordinary, like, so you don't respect the ability to make you laugh in the same way. I don't have a friend who can sing like Stevie Wonder who's never done it before. But that's what Robert Klein said is a great quote. He goes, there's a big difference between being funny with your friends or being funny at 8 o'clock on Saturday. But you know what? Having hung out with a lot of comedians

and a lot of non-comedians, the good comedians can entertain you offstage in a way that no non-comedian can touch. I've never seen a non-comedian that is anywhere near as entertaining as Tracy Morgan offstage, for example. But now you're talking about outliers again. Even Sherrod Small.

Even Sherrod Small. Keith Robinson offstage. Let's go down the list. There's some people that aren't that entertaining. I'll get to the white people. Well, I would mention myself, but you say it was self-serving. That was clever, Dan. You know, but Kevin Brannan is a lot of fun.

David Tell offstage is great. David Tell. Offstage is tremendous. I love David Tell, but who spent more than 90 seconds with him offstage? Those have been a hell of a 90 seconds. Before he gets uncomfortable and walks away. My non-comedian friends, nobody can touch people that I've just mentioned offstage. But you're speaking to what Pete is saying about you're in a certain environment when you hang out with them. It's the energy

and hanging out with people at this table. The reason why this show is the show it is. I hang out with Dub Davidoff anywhere and I'm going to get entertained. I hang out with Tracy Morgan. You are such a weird man. I really enjoy it. Why is that weird? And now you've just

said why there's... I didn't think what you said was weird. I just really... And I do mean it when I say I enjoyed it. You were like, I'm going to get entertained. Like, legitimately a little angry. Well, I have something, don't I? That's unique. You do.

Can you ask Judd just one favor? Judd. Put Dan... Give him a part. No fooling. He loves you. And he goes, Natterman's great because you just don't, where do you see that guy?

Natterman's been read, and we don't even know if we're going to use Natterman. You're great. Oh, my God. You would make me so happy. My heart would soar like a hawk if you could use Dan Natterman. But Jed was like, you never see that guy, and it had nothing to do with your audition or not your audition. He's always been interested. I can't say about the pilot, but I know he loves you.

Well, you know, that's appreciated. Did he tell you that when Judd was about the pilot, but I know he loves you. Well, you know, that's appreciated. Did he tell you that when Judd was on this show, Dan got mad, had a hissy fit, and walked off? Yeah, I saw that. Judd told me that. Just to review. Dan, give him an answer. Did Judd bring that up?

I believe he did mention that to me when I told him I was doing it. Here was the thing. And he said he thought it was a bit. That's why he told me. Here's the thing. This is what happened. It wasn't a bit. No one regards this radio show as maybe his 30th priority.

He's got his family. He's got his businesses. A million other things. I can't get him to return an email. So I booked the show. I asked Judd to be on the show, and I put it all together. Now, granted, I'd never get within 100 miles of Judd if it weren't for this club. But I did ask him. He comes

and all of a sudden, Noam is all of a sudden interested in being at the forefront. You know, the whole week I can't get him on the phone. I get it. Then he gets to the show and he wants to conduct the interview. I get it. I want to say this about Dan. Well, why can't I conduct the interview?

I'm the one who put the whole thing together. Some people are not self-aware. And I think that if anybody were to listen to the recording of what Dan is describing, they would not see it the way Dan sees it. This is a magical day. Yeah, because they didn't see you the whole week not answering emails, saying I can't be there because my kids are in... That's not fair to bring into what happened.

It doesn't matter if I answer the email or not. The point is the show was going well. On the day. The show was going well. It could have gone, the show would have gone that much better. If you had, if I. Judd thought it was a bit. It's fine.

You didn't think it was a bit. Well, the point is, I'm trying to ask Judd one question. Noam's trying to ask Judd another question. Okay, but there's a concept of being a professional. Who walks off a show? You had a show. Were you allowed to walk off when somebody aggravated you? It's the only power I have.

That's no power. We went on Famously Without You, but we missed you. I wanted you there. You're like Bieber. Well, as I said, unfortunately, it's horrible. But then you got to have the whole interview. Again, Patrice was such a respected comic and such a funny comic. But the things he would do, you know, I couldn't respect.

Like, walking off and taking... Did he walk off safe? Did he actually walk off? He did worse than walk off. If he decided it wasn't going well, he would just take a flamethrower to the crowd. Sometimes his version of walking off was staying on, you know, for a half an hour. And, you know, it disrespected hour. And it disrespected the other comics, disrespected the audience,

some guy who's waiting all week to spend money and take his girl out to see a show, you know what I mean? And somehow it gets remembered as this genius thing, you know? And it's respected in some way. It shouldn't be respected. I see a frustration in you. It's an awesome story. I see a frustration in you, not just

for comedians, but maybe just with reality and the way that memory works and the way that time changes things. It's called truth, Pete. It's called truth. No, I hear you. I got your truth. I understand. It bothers people the way that the social mind shapes

and catapults some people and erases memories. And it's very disturbing. What do we have if we don't have the truth? Comedians would see this guy torch the room and say, oh, isn't he famous? Isn't he great? He's a genius. What would comedians say? I don't even know about the incident you're talking about.

You talk to Jim Norton about Patrice. You can't get him to say a bad word. Jim and Patrice were the very, very best of friends. I have best friends. You're a good friend of mine. I'm not afraid to criticize. Like, you can't. How can you?

I don't hear a general. When I hear people talk about you can't... How can you... I don't hear a general... When I hear people talk about Patrice and how great he is, I don't hear people saying he's great because he walked off stage or did this or did... I hear he's great because they love his bit about getting a receipt when he buys a donut just in case somebody gets raped in the neighborhood. Patrice had great material. You know, I don't hear people saying Patrice was great because of that incident you're describing. I don't hear it.

They kind of admired the rogue persona. And I don't like to see any entertainer in any genre become untethered from a respect to the audience and trying to please an audience. There's no shame in that. We were just talking about that with Bill Hicks, too. Atel did my podcast, and I was telling him that I get very uncomfortable when I watch those old clips of Hicks. Another guy people won't criticize.

I don't really know Patrice's stuff or that folklore about him, but I would watch the clips of Bill Hicks and he'd just call a woman a cunt 45 times, and that was like what he did. And I was like, Bill, baby, you might be on the road too much. Bring it in. What comics are praising this? Huck your friend.

Thank you. That's my mother. And you suck. You fucking cunt. Get the fuck out of here right now. Get out. Fuck you. Fuck you, you idiot.

You're everything that America should be flushed down the toilet. You fucking turd. Fuck you. Get out. Get out, you fucking drunk bitch. Take her out. Take her fucking out. Take her to somewhere that's good. Go see fucking Madonna, you fucking idiot piece of shit. You stuck, buddy. You stuck. I can yell at the comedian because I'm a drunk cunt. That

gives me carte blanche. I got a cunt and I'm drunk. I can do anything I want. I don't have a cunt. I can yell at performers because I'm a fucking idiot because I got a cunt. Do you want to hear the Jeffrey Gorian story? Yeah. I read in the

what's his website called? Sandpaper Suit. I'm just kidding. He has a website called Comedy Matters, but he writes a weekly column for the Interrobang. Okay, well, I don't know which one it was, actually. I didn't realize that. So he writes that, yeah, so Noam Dwarman sponsored comedian Jeff Leach to come over here to become an American, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I read that.

And I was, first of all, it's not true. There's some grain of truth to it. Mm-hmm. But I was really upset. It doesn't look good. And I thought it was my personal business. And I said, listen, that's really not true. Can you just take it out?

And he starts, like, sparring me. Well, what is the truth? I'm like, the truth is none of your business. Just take it out. And I didn sparring me. Well, what is the truth? I'm like, the truth is none of your business. Just take it out. And I didn't say it, but implicitly, it's like, you come here. Don't think you're ever fucking walking in here again if you want to start. It's not even important. You're not a journalist.

And I don't like it. I mean, it's not like he uncovered a Watergate conspiracy. I'm not taking it out. I have an obligation. This is not. It's not like he uncovered a Watergate conspiracy. I'm not taking it out. I have an obligation. This is not. It's my person. So instead of taking it out, he prints a retraction, meaning like we said that Noam Dorman sponsored Jeff Leach here,

but Noam says, Noam called me and told me it's not true. So instead of just having it disappear, he compounded it by making it public that I was upset about it and asked him to take it out. He's dead to me. Well, I don't see what's so bad about the retraction. What happened to the empathy? You don't see what's bad about the retraction? Because, whatever, because, you know, as I'm telling it, I realize you have to be in my shoes to understand this.

I don't want my personal, this is really, this is not about comedy. This is my personal business interaction with comics. I don't want a guy coming in here supposedly as a favored person in the club, shaking hands, talking to the comics, coming to the comedian table,

writing about my personal business, start questioning the comedians, getting them to answer something, and writing it in his column. If he can do that, all he wants as a journalist means no relationship with me, no relationship with the press, like Jason Zineman.

When Jason Zineman walks in, I have no illusions that he's here as anything as his own. He's here for the story. He should have a fedora with a note card in it that says press. No, he's his own.

I do kind of wish that we did have the fedoras with the press card. it that says press. No, he's his own. I do kind of wish that we did have the fedoras and the press cards. And that's why I'm always cautious about you. But I've grown to like you a little bit more. No, honestly, I always use it. Cautiously optimistic. Because I don't like an outside ear. I would like to know that whatever I say, whatever anybody says in here,

whatever business I do here stays here. I don't want some jackass coming in and writing it, and now everybody who Googles me, this becomes information. I don't like it. That's the comedy mafia thing. There really is that hierarchy, and you're like, this is the back table. You don't do that at the cellar. That's a maid guy. You know what I mean? That's right.

I'm not making fun of you. I'm saying that's the attitude people want to be like. This is sacred. I don't feel made fun of, but the day that he comes in here, he's sitting close to the table at my, I mean, obviously, at my pleasure, right? I'm allowing you to do it. I don't mean that to sound haughty,

but you know what I'm saying? Right. And next day, you go home and write something which puts me or the place or any of the comedians who work here in a bad light. You're not getting in the place again.

You can write whatever you want and you can go see them wherever you want, but I'm not going to facilitate it. And I feel like... I don't understand what he said that was so bad. It's what's bad... Now you're blowing it up. Well, you know what it is?

You're making it more of a thing. I'll tell you, I'm going to tell you... I honestly mean I don't think I understood. I might have tuned out a little bit. You know what, I'm going to tell you off the air why it's so bad, and then you'll understand. I know Jeffrey, and for what it's worth, he's a sweet guy. I can't speak for him.

What I can tell you just from my own observance of it is what he does. My observations. I always liked him. My observations. I always liked him. Is that what he does is he files this weekly column. It's more of a names and faces thing that you would see in the old tabloid newspapers. Where it's kind of

half gossipy, like, oh, sightings, seen and heard. This is what I saw, this is what I heard. Where it's like a first person gossipy thing. Like the gossip column in the Lucio Ball show. Walter Winchell? Something like that, yeah. Walter Winchell. So that's what he does. He goes, oh, I was here, I saw this,

I saw so-and-so, and then he gets a picture with himself in the picture. That doesn't bother me. But that's his approach. He Norton's it. My approach is I approach comedy as a beat. Just like my first newspaper job was in Twin Falls, Idaho, for the Times News daily newspaper I covered, City Hall and the County Courthouse.

How did Ted Baxter used to begin his backstory? It all began in a tube shower station, in a 20-watt station. But every day, every day I went to City Hall and the County Courthouse. Whether or not there was a story to be had, I made the rounds every day just to make the rounds, to press the flesh, to be embedded in the community,

to know what's going on. So when something does happen, you and I have a relationship that's based on trust. Like season 5 of The Wire. I'm not here to report on the day to day, the night to night. It is interesting.

Go ahead. If you said something I would wonder where your line is though. Just as a question of like if we were in a journalism class here you are pressing flesh and it's nice that we're friends and I like telling you stuff for your calm. But what if I did say like, this is

complete farce right now. I think Bill Cosby had a right to attack women or whatever it was. Something really scandalous. And what if I meant that? Where is the line? Where is our friendship go? Sorry, that's too good. I've got to report on what a piece of shit Pete is.

I feel like there's a segment of the comedian population who approaches me warily because they think that anything they say can and will be used against them in a court of public opinion. But really, it's more the reverse. If something newsworthy happens, I will tell you,

oh, this is a thing. I need to write about this. And then the conversation happens. Yeah. I'm not buying it. I mean, no, I'm really not. And I'm not faulting you. Your allegiance is to yourself first. If something happens down here

which is really a scoop and you're the guy who witnessed it. You do have a responsibility to scoop it. I am not going to be able to convince you to not reveal it. It's happened before. What do you mean?

Has he stopped you before? No, but it's happened before that I've been here and witnessed things and then reported on them. Right, but it may have been okay. I'm just saying it was something negative that put somebody in a bad light. And that worries me. Your presence here

is... You really are old school, man. Your presence here is a constant worry for me because you could hurt me and you really can't help me. He can help you a great deal. No, he can't help me. How can he help me a great deal? Well, when Jon Stewart was here, he can write that Jon Stewart was here.

Oh, yeah. No, that word wasn't going to get out without Sean McCarthy. Well, he'll help it get out even more. No, and I don't even need the word to get out. I mean, the word gets out. Every customer goes home and tweets it. Huffington Post covered it. Everybody covered it.

But as I said, I've kind of grown to like you. But I can tell the truth of what happened instead of any numb nuts with a Twitter account about what happened. If the truth is not bad, I'm just saying something could happen. Let's say Amy Schumer and Jennifer Lawrence get in a big cat fight at the table and you hear the whole

thing. And you got a really hot story. You can make thousands of dollars from it. Maybe you even recorded it. I don't know. You know, if you weren't here, nobody would ever hear about it, you know? If that's what I was doing... You're going to stand up and lock the door and go, now you can't leave.

If that was... You're going to break his cell phone like Sonny broke the camera in The Godfather and throw $20 at your feet. If that was my M.O., I wouldn't still be a one-man web operation. It's not an M.O. I'm not criticizing you.

It's what you do for a living. Are you saying you'd be further ahead if you would do channeling? Right. I wouldn't be a lone journalist. Well, that's why you're fun. You're a calming presence. You're on the side of comedy.

I've established a reputation. And you're very bribe-able. And he was talking to a hot girl the other night. Oh, shit. I have to go. We all established a reputation. And you're very bribe-able. And he was talking to a hot girl the other night. Oh, shit. I have to go. We all have to go. Special thanks to Pete Holmes. Yeah, let's end on that note. I was talking to a hot girl. And soon to be available on

podcasts, I believe, now. Yes, and Sean McCarthy and Dan Natterman. When are you shooting a podcast? November 16th, we start shooting. Very, very exciting. Special thanks to you. Well, thank you very, very much for shooting it at the shooting. Very, very exciting. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Well, thank you very, very much for shooting it at the Underground. Good night, everybody.

Thanks, Dom.