The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Rebecca Trent and Dani Zoldan

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

Why is the government is killing small businesses? should Seinfeld should be nicer? Why is comedy getting the brunt of this pandemic. Make it make sense with Rebecca Trent, owner of iconic Creek and the Cave and Dani Zoldan, owner of Stand Up NY. 

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the Table, the official podcast of New York's world-famous comedy cellar. Coming at you on SiriusXM 99, Raw Dog and the Riotcast Podcast Network. Dan Natterman here with Noam Dwarman, owner of the world-famous comedy cellar, Piriel Ashenbrand, the producer of the show,

is with us. We also have Rebecca Trent, comedy, legend in the comedy community. She was the owner of the iconic Artist Forward Creek and the Cave, which unfortunately had to close its doors in part because of the pandemic.

We'll be discussing that. We also have Donnie Zoldan, co-owner of Stand Up New York, which is a long established comedy club. It's on the Upper West Side here in Manhattan. And Donnie has some things to say about lockdown. And he's been saying it in the media, in the press. And we'll be talking about that.

I also want to give a shout out to Sirius because I rented a car and I got Sirius and I think I'm hooked. I think I may get, I think I may actually subscribe to it. Good for you. Anyway, okay, people. So let's start off with Rebecca. Rebecca, you had to unfortunately close your doors recently at the legendary Creek in the Cave. I did.

I made the announcement on November 12th of this year. Turned in the keys on the 1st of December. And this was in large measure due to the lockdowns? Yes, due to the lockdowns and the long road ahead of us. We weren't in a good enough position going into the situation to sustain through what i perceive to be something that's going to last probably until september at least for the theater portion of it all well but no i thought you would have

jumped in by now because noam has a lot of anger at our politicians for not lending a helping hand to small business owners. Now, Noam's in good shape. Your point of view is welcome because you are a small businessman who is facing the same challenges that Rebecca and Donnie are facing, albeit the comedy seller might have gone into all this in a stronger position. So, Rebecca, tell us who you hate. Who do you hate? You must have a list of people that you hate. And how are you feeling? I'm upset that there wasn't a federal mandate.

I'm upset that Governor Cuomo specifically pointed out comedy as something that needed to be shut down. I'm livid that open arts is something that didn't happen over last summer. They moved so quickly for the restaurants, but they did nothing for the culturals in this city. And I'm disappointed in our mayor, but I think that that goes without saying that guy's a bag of shit. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's honestly, it's been disappointing on every front. I was astonished that they were allowing gatherings and huge protests and stuff, but they specifically said that outdoor comedy shows were an issue, even though we were being

incredibly careful. We had people showing, we had, we had hundreds of people come to outdoor shows. I was tested every week over the summer. I never tested positive. I never tested positive for the antibodies. I was absolutely around tons of folks, but I'm also a certified COVID compliance officer. And I made sure that everything that we did followed SAG rules other than testing. I didn't test people ahead of time, obviously. But other than that, we followed what the rules were for COVID compliance.

And I really am horrified at the way that we were treated. New York's basic foundation is the culturals. It is the arts. And they just took a big shit on us this year. They made it clear that they care more about buildings than they care about people. They made it clear that they care more that they think of artists as decorations and not as workers and broadway is out of work the biggest then like and and forget broadway in and of itself think about all of the tech people behind that think about all of the vendors think about the hosiery people and the wardrobe people and

the people that it it's such a huge domino and it's put everybody out of work and for them to have absolutely no, nothing, nothing, no plan whatsoever. Just stay home and shut up. That's insane. It's insane. Of course, theaters are folding. First, Gnome froze. He's going to log back on. Yeah. It's, it's really horrifying. I mean, it really um it i mean it's really fucking criminal that they their priorities in in this city i think that is always lauded of like the things that make it most spectacular i feel like like, and you know, obviously I'm biased. And what was one

of the very first things that they took away? They took away 24 hour transportation. Once those trains shut down, I'm telling you, it's going to take an act of Congress to make those trains move again, 24 hours. And we have to have it because that's the thing that sets us apart from every other city in this country. It's absolutely ridiculous that they were able to make that be an unended without a deadline. Like, okay, you can do it, but you can do it for this long. No, they just let it go. There's no deadline.

And that scares the crap out of me. And it scares the crap out of me also as a bar owner, because those bars don't close until four o'clock in the morning. How the fuck are those people supposed to get home? It's just insane. I wanna be at a bar where I can smoke. Well, those days are gone, but- Rebecca's smoking, it's amazing.

It's COVID rules, babies. That's like the good old days of New York, right? Well, Rebecca, you're outside right now, aren't you? I am. Oh, you look like you're indoors. You're outside in a snowstorm. Is it still snowstorming out? Yeah.

I think so. Look out your window. Noam is back with us. Noam, I don't know if you've been listening. Rebecca's obviously quite upset about how the politicians have handled this. Now, Noam, you feel, I think, that there should have just been more financial relief for bar and restaurant owners? For everybody. I don't know if what Rebecca's situation is or other people's situations are. But obviously, prior to the election, this became a political game of political incentives and they were playing games. I blame Pelosi and the Democrats.

And I did a lot of research on it because Trump was actually pretty eager to make a deal because he wanted to have a, you know, a feather in his cap for the election. You're talking about second stimulus package. Yeah. And yeah. And a second PPP second round of loans, you know, and, and, and to have more forgivable loans, which were more realistic. The first round of loans contemplated being closed for a short amount of time.

They didn't contemplate restaurants being closed. So the, so the aspects of them being forgivable the hoops were a little bit too difficult to jump through, but I think they may end up retroactively changing those. I don't think they're going to start collecting money from people that way. But going forward, I mean, Trump had offered $1.8 trillion and Pelosi refused it. And now they're getting ready to settle for $900 billion. So, you know, for half that, I think they just did not want to allow Trump to have any kind of victory going into the election. And McConnell, of course, you know,

he's from Kentucky and he wants, and he's a penny pincher, but I don't think he really matters in that equation because the Democrats have, what is it, 48 senators or something. If they wanted to make a deal with Trump, there's no way that McConnell could prevent it from passing with at least half the Republican party.

But are there not the ones who are responsible for killing the arts essentially in New York City, right? I mean, how- No, obviously not. I mean, what's happening now in the city, I'm seeing is people are using this more as, rather than a pandemic, they're looking at it as an opportunity, you know?

And it's becoming a real estate grab. It's becoming, I'm a real estate grab it's becoming i'm i'm i'm watching places get closed and landlords literally saying no we haven't rented it out but it doesn't matter we're kicking them out we're gonna figure out a way to we're gonna figure out how to make it roll through this pandemic because we're gonna be able to get twice the rent after like that's gonna happen what's that i don't think that's going to happen. What's that? I don't think landlords expect to get double their rent anytime soon. I'm literally telling you that MySpace is asking for double the rent. No, no.

I'm literally telling you that that's factually happening all over the city. This is what it is. By the way, I get a call almost once a week from somebody who wants to buy my building. So the buzzards are out there flying, looking for it. And they're circling like crazy right now. But there's also a certain amount of leases which landlords have given out, which they've been, you know, with a tenant, which have been extremely advantageous to the tenant neighborhoods,

probably Williams neighborhoods that shot up and had 15, 20 year leases. And now these landlords see the opportunity to get out from under these leases, which were way below market rent. And there's always a significant number of leases that are below market rent and vice versa. There may be tenants who somehow can find a way to get out of this when they have playing above market rent or they can get their rent lowered or whatever it is.

So this is an opportunity for smart business people to use leverage, as it were, to equalize things. I mean, I pay a lot of rent and it's a fair rent and so I don't think

my landlords are going to get me out and I'm not looking to change my rent with my landlord. There's a lot of things going on out there. Sure.

So I don't know what I missed, but so you, and you said you wish it was a mask mandate is that what you're saying wait i want to say the thing i don't you know and i part company with a lot of people on this i don't see the arts as deserving any special consideration here i'm sure there's many many industries which are also hit just as harshly as comedy clubs. I just think that everybody should have been better taken care of. I agree. Everybody, top to bottom.

They closed people's businesses down. And obviously when they did that, they should have provided for them the ability to not lose their businesses. Period. But what Rebecca was saying when you lost power over there was that first of all that she is a COVID compliance officer so and she was doing things incredibly safely and incredibly COVID you know compliant I mean there's two questions, I think,

without wanting to cut you off. Sure. I already cut you off. I'm used to it. It's okay. There's two questions. Number one, are they taking care of the people that had to shut down? And number two, should they have shut them down

in the first place? We just had the restaurants go back into shutdown. There's no longer indoor dining in New York. And one can debate whether that's prudent or imprudent, whether leaving restaurants open was a big factor in the spike. And then the second question is, how do we take care of these people now they've had to shut down? It wasn't, not to cut you off, Dan. Most of the studies have proven that the spikes have been a result of people

having small indoor gatherings with their friends and families over the holidays exactly what they predicted there isn't any spike as a result of indoor dining and if there was all of long island would be dead right now 1.4 percent is supposedly the percentage from indoor dining. Now, having said that, I also don't believe that the burden of public health should be on the shoulders of restaurant owners. I think that it's ridiculous that I don't like the idea of taking people's names and addresses. I don't like the contact tracing stuff.

All of it just seems like a little bit much to me. I don't like the stuff that they are requiring in order for indoor dining to be okay. So I didn't feel like indoor dining was okay to begin with just based on that stuff. Well, I wanna add something and maybe Danny or Donnie wants to tell me that I'm wrong. I don't think anybody

was going to make a living at 25% capacity unless they were cheating. That's 100% correct. There is no way around that. So when these comedy clubs are talking about wanting to stay open, I'm assuming,

or not any club, any restaurant, whatever it is, that they want to stay open because they want to cheat on these regulations because they're desperate to keep a roof over their heads I'm not you know I mean a lot of restaurants with 25% indoor dining and the outdoor dining that they have are breaking even just by paying their employees they're just trying to retain their employees the few the few restaurants that have big outdoor space,

like a Das Silvano or something, you know, there's some restaurants that make their living in outdoors, but most restaurants don't. And, you know, After the indoor dining, the takeout, you might get to a point where. Nothing goes for a hundred percent. All I'm saying is that, and let me be clear again. It's not impossible, but it's not probable.

It's the government that I'm resenting here because they're putting people in a position. In a position where they have to cheat. Where they're desperate and they're between losing everything, feeding their kids and making moral compromises. Right. And why should people be put in that situation? Exactly. I'm not trying to be judgmental,

but I do want to say that the idea that we could be open at 25% capacity. No, thank you. I'd rather stay closed. I can't, it's way more expensive to be open. One of the problems that I've had with this whole situation is that they've had us limping along every step of the way. They go, oh, it's going to be two weeks. Go ahead and order your chicken and your ice cream and whatever else. they've had us limping along every step of the way. They go, oh, it's going to be two weeks.

Go ahead and order your chicken and your ice cream and whatever else. Oh, my bad. It's going to be another couple of months. Oh, you know what? We're going to take this away. We're going to take that away. And they just keep eking away at us and just allowing us to just sort of limp along. It's insulting.

I mean, I would. Hold on. And the comedy clubs do have a particular beef, which is they, they led us to believe that we would be able to open when they opened it. So we, when they opened it, so we spent a lot of money.

I spent tens of thousands of dollars gearing the place up. Air purifying. Yeah. Yeah. With all that shit. And that, I mean, that's a fucking outrage too.

Like at a time when we have no money, they dangle this thing in front of us so we scrape up some money to invest in some future and then that money is wasted. And then they took it away. Get the pitchforks. I'm joining the Proud Boys. Can we talk to Danny?

Okay, calm down everybody. Danny actually was doing, you guys were doing pretty well over the summer when the weather is good with outdoor shows, but now that's no longer viable. And do you want to open even if it's a 25% capacity, or do you agree with Noam that you'd rather be closed? I would much rather be open.

And when de Blasio says that indoor dining is allowed, we're going to reopen. So if that's next week, we're going to reopen. But Danny, how many people? You fit, what, 75, 80 people in your room as it is? 120. 120. So you're going to be open with 30 people? I'll be thrilled with that.

You can't make money with 30 people. I'm paying much less rent right now. Thank God I have a great landlord. He's a huge supporter of the arts and he's been an Upper West Side since the 70s. I mean, all my expenses will be lower. And I want to keep things going.

I'm like, at the club every single day, half of the day, like sitting on the bench in the window, looking out the window. I'd much rather just operate even if it's at break-even than just sit there. How could it be breakeven? I'm hearing that from business owners everywhere,

and it doesn't make any sense to me. Well, Donnie, I mean, I've said this before, but it's no offense to know him, is that some of these comedy club owners are really, they're comedy fans, and they love what they do, and even if they're not making money they danny donnie rather uh it's spelled danny you'll forgive me would you put yourself in that category as somebody who just simply loves being around comedy and wants to open just because you you

want to you want you want that or is it all dollars and cents? No, I mean, I think it's various reasons. I'll admit I'm not the biggest comedy nerd. You know, I'm not, you know, most comics or comedy club owners, you know, they would say they got into the business because, you know, they loved listening to George Carlin or Richard Parr albums. Like that's not me.

I did go to the cellar. I just, I grew up right outside of the village and I did go to the cellar when I was in high grew up right outside of the village and I did go to the cellar when I was in high school, when I was 15, 16 years old, you know, and I loved, I love the experience just being in a comedy club, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't, you know, even just watching the comics. I just love sitting there looking at people, looking at the cute waitress. And I love being around people that create, whether it's actors or comics. So I want

that energy back. And I would much rather I live a few blocks away from the club. Like, would I rather be closed and like, sit at the bar by myself all day, i'm doing now or would i rather be open and see 25 30 customers a night and six comics and you know just have a good time in a safe way even if i'm breaking even i would much rather choose that it's not did you did you get the air purification and like all of that stuff that no one's talking about? No. How can you in good conscience think that you're going to be able to do that and know that it's in a safe way then inside? I mean, look, you know, follow, you know, whatever safety precautions we could take or can afford, I'll do.

I mean, that's the bottom line. And people have a choice also. Who has a choice? I mean people have a choice if they want to, if they feel comfortable coming to our space or not. Are you going to advertise that you didn't get an air filtration system? I have no problem with that. Yeah, why not? I don't care. Yeah, but you wouldn't. Like that's the thing is that like this is what noam's talking about it puts the onus on you as the as the as the proprietor of the space to create a safe environment and i don't i'm not a scientist i'm not a doctor and

i'm saying that there's there it there there is no way to guarantee that you're creating a safe environment without massive renovations like Noam's talking about. I'm not guaranteeing that. Yeah, I'm not guaranteeing that. So let's spin out from Donnie. I'm gonna say this. First of all, if you can break even with 30 people,

say, because that doesn't seem plausible to me. But presuming that you can get in the vicinity or, or forget about you, some business that fits your profile could, could get in the vicinity of breaking even at 30 people. If, if, if another 10 people show up at the door,

they're going to get let in. Our expenses are very low here. Yeah, but 30 people. Exactly. But another 10 people show up at the door, they're going to get let in our expenses are very low here yeah but another 10 people show up at the door they're gonna get let in that's the thing like we it's crazy and and look you gotta you can't you gotta pay the comedians i mean i don't i don't know what i mean three third 30 if you're lucky to get 10 over 30 people 300 pay the comedians. Look, I mean, comedians are fairly understanding.

Years ago, there was a comedy coalition where comedians wanted more money. And there were some hard feelings. And they were successful. There were the hard feelings between some of the comedians and some of the club owners. But we're reasonable people. There were shows this year for which I received no money.

There were outdoor shows. Stand Up New York paid money. Thank you, Donnie. But there were other clubs that I worked at for free. We're reasonable. If it's a catastrophe out there, we're willing to listen and work for less if we feel that that's warranted you know but because we comics I see a lot of comics

want want to start working also I was shocked like we posted last night on our Instagram that we're planning moving forward to just follow the guidelines given to bars and restaurants. And I was shocked there was not one negative comment. I thought we were going to get backlash. Every single comic, every single audience, every single fan just commented, like, amazing, go for it, I'm supporting you.

We didn't have one negative comment on our reopening plan. So comics, we know comics that want to perform. We know't have one negative comment on our reopening plan. So comics, we know comics that want to perform. We have, we know comedy fans that want to come out. So, so we'll get,

we'll get one more. Can we get to Don? He's feud with Saturday Night Live briefly because he's been, he's been talking about it in the media. So Don, I do want to get to,

just before, before we get off, Rebecca, Dan, I'm sorry, because I just want to say that, because I spoke to Rebecca once a few weeks ago,

you seem to be mentally in a much better place. You seem to have rebounded. You got your head together a little bit. I'm happy to see that. I hope that's the truth. Are you talking about me? Rebecca, Rebecca. I have a couple of job opportunities that i'm exploring

right now and i'm hoping that i'm gonna be able to continue to you know build the brand in a way that's gonna be in keeping with what it was before um so good i don't know we'll see i'm just kind of uh i'm i'm i'm still in a place where I'm just waiting to see what's going to happen. Just like I have been since March. You know, I'm just trying to not be too in my head about it anymore. Because I was in a really bad space when you and I spoke. Yeah. And, you know, honestly, making the decision to turn in the keys was the hardest thing that I've ever had to do and you know I I felt like particularly after I got your counsel on it I felt like I was making

the right and appropriate decision um but it didn't hurt any less you know it was hard and I'm I'm living in an apartment that I'm like mostly moved out of and I'm like living out of a suitcase and just sort of trying to figure out how to make stuff work. But I have a, I have a family situation that I'm going to have to deal with for the month of January. And I think that sort of having that ability to put a pause on me and what my needs has kind of helped me like re evaluate everything and like put stuff into perspective. You know what I mean?

I just want to say, like re-evaluate everything and like put stuff into perspective you know what i mean well i just want to say we all know that rebecca has put in for years now uh even before for quite a long time before she was on my radar uh really tender loving care into the industry of comedy and in nurturing acts and and selflessly and not not looking to make real money just looking to to stay open because she loved so much of what she was doing. And it's fucking enraging. And, you know, you can get really emotional about it.

It's just, you know, a lot of people, when Trump lost, character is destiny, character is destiny. If only character were really destiny. Character was destiny after he lost reelection, right? Prior to him winning. They didn't say character was destiny when he won. So, and anyway, character, you know, is great, but there's other things. And we certainly do need the fucking help from our fiduciary leaders,

you know, people who are responsible for us. That's what they supposedly went into this profession for. And they fucking hung us out to dry. And you're right, from Trump to Cuomo to DeBlatt, not a single fucking one of them stepped up. Pelosi, none of them. One of our city council members, Jimmy Van Bramer, had the paperwork in front of people in Albany in August

to get the theaters open back up again and they didn't vote on it until last week. You should depend on big government, depend on big government. You know, your Republicans, Republicans want smaller government, Democrats want bigger government. The one time we actually needed to depend on government.

Needed big government. Yeah, one time we needed it. No, no, no, no, we have an election coming. We can't afford to let anybody win right now. We'll figure it out later. I've never heard the character is destiny thing, but I'll take your word for it that people have been saying it. Yes, they have.

Go to Twitter. Okay, Danny. Wait a second. I just want to know something. Why weren't they letting you do shows outside? Like how? Very specifically, Governor Cuomo said no outdoor entertainment, including comedy, adult entertainment, and karaoke. He specifically slated those three things.

There are some conspiracy theories behind why. Go ahead. but I believe that he was going after adult entertainment and he needed to have this he needed to have other industries that he could put his crosshairs on and you can talk to sense that you're allowed or were allowed to have a restaurant with 25 capacity but one person with a microphone no outdoor shows I mean Because the laughter spreads the aerosol, was what I was told. Which, by the way, might have some. Or the asthma. Oh, you think so?

Well, I don't know. You know, I've heard tell. I don't think that if people are wearing masks, that laughing is any more dangerous than screaming a chance or than wearing masks but if it's easing into a mask or you know I mean I'm all for again I just want to say some of the science is is more more in focus now to us is more in focus was now than it was three four months ago when they didn't know how it would spread outdoors i mean it's been a moving target all along so i don't really i don't

really fault them for being overcautious or whatever it is what i think we really have to focus on the real fault is that whatever they decided they wanted to do. They then had to provide the sustenance so that people's lives weren't robbed from them. You want to close us down? All right. And if you find out five months later, oh, it turns out it would have been okay because we didn't know the virus doesn't spread. Well, yeah, of course.

It's fine. As long as we were eating the whole time, it's fine. That's right. But even loans, 1% loans that I can pay back over 10 years, whatever you got to do, you can't just let people. And it's not just the business owners. It's all the employees as well. All the people that the business, I mean, it's, it's, it's the whole economy. It's fucked up.

And the guy I buy my produce from and it's everybody, it has to be everybody. So Danny, why did you go after SNL? Donnie, why did you go after Seinfeld? Why, why, why are you picking fights all over? Is this, is this a way to get publicity? Or is this actually a smart move on your part? What's going on here? I'm going after you tomorrow. You can't.

You're going after Seinfeld. You're going after SNL. These are not the kind of people you want to cross, are they? Why not? I want to bring attention, again, not i mean i'm gonna i want to i want to bring attention again to the fact that comedy clubs are closed and i want to be able i want clubs to be able to operate under the same guidelines as restaurants and bars so like whatever i mean are you the guy that said that saturday night live like comedy clubs are upset

because saturday night live is still able to have an audience that's him that's him yeah oh wow okay Are you the guy that said that Saturday Night Live, like comedy clubs are upset because Saturday Night Live is still able to have an audience? That's him. That's him. Oh, wow. Okay. But you know that you could create a closed set in your comedy club and just make it a COVID-compliant set, right? I mean, we're starting shows. What's the difference? Well, the difference is that you have to follow

the rules and regulations that the Screen Actors Guild has put forth, and you put some cameras up and you give everybody a tape afterwards. It would be super easy. I'm really... Whatever regulation. Why is SNL able to have shows? What's the loophole?

It's not really a loophole. They're working under a closed set it's a different situation but what do you mean they're isolating people okay let donnie go get his sorry sorry no no let him get the thing and then i i want to comment on the closed set thing too but go ahead donnie okay donnie good i i'm look i mean i think the city needs to prioritize small businesses and they're not you know they're the health department's working with snl so they can be open i was at rocket power center on saturday night and and there's multiple blocks that are like closed off you know so so people can see the stupid tree i mean there's so much like there's

so yeah there's thousands of people down there and and instead of like putting you know money and time and energy into closing off many blocks in midtown so people see this tree like they need to help small businesses and no one's listening well what can we get into because not everybody's aware what is snl doing that allows them to have an audience but what precise other than just close set which doesn't mean anything to a lot of people i think i think i think one is they're paying i heard they're paying the audience members and treating them as employees i think that's one thing that That's not exactly accurate. So the audience is hired and everybody has to have a negative test within probably 24 hours. But what did I say that was

inaccurate? What's that? What did I say that was inaccurate? I said that they're paying them and treating them as employees. Well, they're also they're also apparently testing them is that it yeah so they're they're they're they're treating them like extras right so they're they're being treated as part of the show so they have to go through all of the covid compliance that everybody else has to go through in order to be on the show so there's mask requirements there's temperature checks they have to have negative tests before they can walk in the door all of that stuff and i imagine as the efficacy of the rapid tests become better they're going to require rapid tests on entrance as well um and also we can be quite just a different situation i really believe like we need you need comedy club owners and comics

need to make a lot of noise if they want to get help. A few months ago, Seinfeld was at Gotham for that press conference, Save Our Sages. Was there any follow-up? You got day in and day out. That was a Chuck Schumer initiative.

And that was something that came very much out of a result of the article or the op-ed piece that was written by James Altucher. So that was, Seinfeld was a part of what Chuck was doing. Chuck Schumer advanced that as far as he could. And that is part of why open arts got passed in our city. The save our stages thing. But I mean,

did it go into anything that was really tangible? Nah, not really. My point is, I feel like the only way comedy clubs and music venues are gonna get any support is if we go out there and scream and yell and just stay in and day after do that and that's what I'm trying to do so yes calling out SNL you know calling out Cuomo for his like ridiculous fun right $10,000 person birthday virtual fundraiser. Closing off

Rockefeller Center so people can see this dump tray. I mean, I'm committed to like... Hold on. So Donnie, let me ask you this question. So you're going to tell me, look me in the camera eye and tell me that you believe the following. That your employees are just as safe

waiting on strangers who show up at the door than in your place without filters, than an NBC employee is working where they have people who have been tested 24 hours prior to coming in with sophisticated HVAC, high ceilings, state-of-the-art everything at Rockefeller Center and all that stuff. I mean, I've hedged on all this because I don't feel like I can say, yeah, if they can go to SNL, then of course they can cram into the basement of the Comedy Cellar. I just can't say that. I'm not, of course, of course I'm not saying that, but let people, I believe people should have a choice if they feel comfortable going to a comedy shop.

I'm not saying, I'm not saying we're conducting it safer than them. Of course we're not. But what about your employees? This isn't, it's their choice if they want to work or not. Yeah. Like people,

people need to make a living. People want to be out there. Let it, let it be their choice if they want to work or not. Like people, people need to make a living. People want to be out there. Let it, let it be their choice. To me, the government shouldn't, the government shouldn't put employees in a position where they have to be so desperate that they'd have to take risks with their health like that. That's just, it's just wrong what's going on.

That's true. But to me, it doesn't make sense. Why can't the comedy clubs be opened if the restaurants are open? The restaurants are opened like how come Cuomo is not saying don't go on the subway unless you have to you know what about the airlines don't don't go on an airplane unless you have to I mean yeah I agree that like that doesn't make sense I haven't heard Tabasio say once, like, you know, don't, don't go in the

subway unless you really have to. There are so many things that people are being allowed to do and comedy is not one of them and it makes no logical sense as to why. Yeah. But, but what are we saying here? Are we saying that they're being too permissive with the other aspects? Are we saying that, no, they're, they're, they're absolutely right the way they're handling the rest, and they should just treat comedy clubs the same? Like, I think maybe you're making an argument that they're being too permissive elsewhere, which I might agree with you. But I don't think we should be able to open at 100% capacity in a comedy club now. I don't think that. I don't think that either.

And again, we haven't tried you know since march to do to do shows um we lost rebecca by the way but hopefully she'll come back i know i'm assuming she's lost i'm just i'm just i've come to a point what is it december 16th like we haven't had shows indoors since march you know we did 500 shows outdoors in the summer and fall. We paid every single comic. It was a really fun time. And the past month or six weeks has been difficult. And it's been so frustrating to see a day like yesterday where New York Department of Cultural Affairs announces $47 million

that they're giving to institutions like the New York Philharmonic and the Metropolitan Opera and Jazz at the Lincoln Center. So as a small business owner to see that they're getting this money when they have so much access to capital, that put me over the edge. I didn't know about that. That's outrageous. That led to my decision. Like I read this article about five o'clock yesterday, $47 million from the city to the Met and to the Philharmonic and jazz. And these are monster organizations.

And after reading that, I decided like, we're just reopening. Like that, I wasn't thinking, reopening. I wasn't thinking... John Mike Booker has been convincing me the past few weeks to do a New Year's Eve show at the club, and I said no. He said, I'll make it a private event. I said no. I was

very against, up until last night, to do anything indoors. When I saw that happening, I'm like... What about liability? What about liability? happening, I'm like... What about liability? What about liability? Dude, I'm 30. I've been an entrepreneur since I was 19. I'm a risk taker.

That's just how I roll. I'll do things as safely as possible. Everyone will wear masks. We're not looking... no one's looking to get sick. No one's going to be hanging out beforehand or after. We're really going to do it in a safe way. That's my experience on New Year's Eve that people

really keep their heads about them and they don't take unnecessary risks. We're not doing New Year's Eve. I think most of the women I've gotten pregnant in my life were on New Year's Eve. But anyway. That most of the women I've gotten pregnant in my life were on New Year's Eve, but anyway. But that's what led to my decision to reopen after reading that article last night.

That was just such a slap in the face to small businesses and to comedy. I think I've got a bad connection. So what else? Dan, you're muted, Dan. Oh my God, this is just a debacle here. No, Dan, your mic's not working, Dan. Your mouth is...

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. Okay, go ahead. All right. So, Danny, you're reopening in the face of restrictions that tell you you shouldn't be reopening.

I mean, I think you're risking... It's just civil disobedience, Dan. Imagine you're risking a hugeience, Dan. Imagine you're risking a huge fine and who knows what. I would probably advise you if I were your lawyer not to do it, but you know. And I don't know how many people are going to want to go. If we saw like some end in sight where we're getting support or even conversations of support then I would hold off but again after seeing that announcement of 47 million dollars going to these huge organizations and no other support in

the immediate future that that that's what led to my decision like even PPP like doesn't PPP keeps on employees for eight weeks. What is that? That doesn't go to pay rent or really anything else. No, the other 30 percent of it goes to rent. Rent. It doesn't doesn't keep a business going. No, neither does 25 percent capacity. Go ahead. No. And what would you suggest a guy like Donnie does? He's mad. He can't take it anymore. And he wants to stay.

If my partner had made $100 million on Bitcoin, I would stay closed for like his partner. I would, $100 million may not be a realistic number, but it's a lot.

Bitcoin is up. Bitcoin is at 21,000 right now. He's a known rich person, right? And we like him, but I would just wait the two or three months until the vaccine starts having its effect, and then I would just wait it out. Right now, there actually is a light at the end of the tunnel. This is the exact time it makes the least sense to be taking risks. Bitcoin is at $21,000.

I want to go on record as saying, as a former Bitcoin owner, I think it's a Ponzi scheme. I always thought it was a Ponzi scheme. Can we not digress? But there's a lot of money to be made in Ponzi schemes. I think Ponzi was made a lot. My thing got busted. That's where this was going. Okay. wasn't going but but you know i'm just saying uh bitcoin is is is going

to the roof the point is this when when when we had no idea when a vaccine was coming and when the when the when the trump hating media was saying we've never had a vaccine in sort of five years and and it's going to take years at least and it was an open-ended thing then then there was reason to say fuck it i gotta open i'm going to take years at least, and it was an open-ended thing, then there was reason to say, fuck it. I got to open. I'm going to take risks because this might never end. They might never have a vaccine, right? But now that we have a vaccine, two of them have been approved,

there's seven more or something in the pipeline, now is not the time to be taking risks. Now is the time to just tighten your belt and wait it out. That's not my personality. When I was 24, a month before I got married, I wasn't making any money. And I had an opportunity in Trinidad, Tobago. And I flew down there and overnight, I built a telephone network into Trinidad. And I sold it to a phone company. This is not an opportunity to be open with 25 people. I want to do what I want to do.

You know, comics, you know, want to perform. There are a lot of comedy fans that want to come to the club. I want to reopen. It's a personal decision. You know, I text James last night. He loves it. You know, gave my other partners on board. Like, why not? Well, I told you the reasons. All right.

I mean, it's a personal, you know. Is one of the reasons here that, do you think that maybe there's an opportunity here while, you know, while I'm closed and while some other people are closed to gain a foothold in the industry that you, that you might not be able to get while, while there's stiff competition. I'd be the only game in town for a while. I think we did that like in the summer with our park shows, like that,

that was part of our motivation also. You know, I think that was an opportunity. Well, they did it. Yeah. I must say you guys did a great job. They had like a, they were doing shows all over the city and central park and prospect park and we saturday we were doing 10 shows it was amazing and the shows were actually pretty good i did a few of them uh in the park and um you know i actually found them to be pretty good uh which i wasn't expecting because we're outside with a dodgy sound system but but the audience was really really into it um and and

one more thing you know i mean again like frustration and anger you know like also led led to this decision with like yesterday's announcement we don't have a kitchen so we can't do outdoor dining we can't have a tent uh you know we I scouted some roof decks, and they're very small. They don't have heaters. We did a show in a church last month. Like, we're running. Oh, yeah. What happened with that?

That looked like such a great idea. What happened from there? Yeah, that looked really. Yeah, we found this awesome church, paul and saint andrew on 86 and west end their capacity is like a thousand we had 50 people the pastor spoke before the service and it was awesome it was like a really fun experience what was it called jesus and dick jokes the temple of laughter brought brian mcfadden brian mcfadden said it felt like a cross between Punchline and The Exorcist. He was performing in front of a cross. because they're not holding services, religious services in the church. And they're afraid, you know,

their congregation will get upset that they're hosting comedy shows, but not religious services. I got another question. I got another question for you while we're speaking frankly here. Hope I'm not speaking out of turn. What was your, I mean, I guess I'm kind of

sensing the answer already, but what was your thinking when you went public at page six and called Seinfeld an ungrateful whatever it was? What did you hope to gain by that? I found that interesting. I would have never done that. I mean, I just haven't had a pleasant experience with him.

A year ago, he came to the club, and he's just've seen you know a year ago he came to the club and you know he's just not he's not friendly to people um i saw a fan walk over to him at the bar hi you know i'm a huge fan i've been a fan for a long time can i take a picture with you and he just like turned his back and walked away i just and And I've seen him like multiple times in a similar situation where I just don't respect the guy if he's not a kind person. It really bothers me. So let's say, but this is where I disagree with you. And I actually, I'm not saying this to be smooth.

I really believe it. When somebody like Seinfeld walks in and they decide to perform at your club, you are, you are the, you are the beneficiary of a gratuitous gift there. Put a number on it for one, I don't know, worth $5,000 to your goodwill or something. There's, there, there is a, there's a tremendous oneway exchange there of value from Jerry Seinfeld to stand-up New York. And I think that, like, so...

I'd rather not have it. If he's going to act like a prick and be mean to our customers, I'd rather not have him come. All right. I don't need... Like, we're not going to close down because Seinfeld doesn't come here. I just want to surround myself with good people.

Yeah, well, I mean, I've never seen Jerry Seinfeld. I mean, Jerry Seinfeld is a person who keeps to himself, and he's tremendously famous. He's on A-plus list fame, along with, you know, the Living Beatles and stuff like this. This is not an ordinary amount of famousness, and it's got to be utterly fatiguing for a guy like that to walk around as Jerry Seinfeld, and if he doesn't want to talk to anybody,

I don't walk in his shoes. You shouldn't have to. It just seems like, whatever, he's coming into your club, and you say it doesn't matter whether he comes in. I think it does. I think it does matter. I think that your chances of – No, he's not saying it doesn't matter.

He's saying it's not worth it to him if Seinfeld is not going to behave in a way that he respects, so that he's not denying that Seinfeld's presence is important, but it's not going to put him out of business as seinfeld doesn't show up and he doesn't want that energy in his club well what what what what put yeah and i've met and i've met people like almost equally as famous you know adam sandler you know i've met him multiple times he's like the loveliest guy in the world you know the most humble you know i, I'm sure you... The truth is, the truth is this. We know a lot of people that are at Seinfeld's level or if not,

certainly considered cooler and more relevant in 2020. And we don't hear these stories about them. It could all be wrong. We could be misjudging him. The fact is, is the stories and the reputation of Se seinfeld is not as positive as the stories and reputation surrounding other artists is there any validity to it i don't know but it doesn't take that much to be nice i just know and i just know that ray romano who's more or less you guys are nuts you guys are nuts more or less can i finish my sentence, please? Yes, go ahead. Ray Romano is probably more relevant today than Seinfeld is. He's not as rich as Seinfeld.

You never hear a bad word about him. You want him to show up to your club and you want to tell him how to act? That's nuts. I'm just saying. It's my business. I'm just saying, in the interest of being truthful my it's my it's my reputation is not as good as other people's at equal levels of fame seinfeld's been to my club and it was a lovely experience i want to i want to say something that that's awesome it really bothered me

when i saw maybe all wrong you know it maybe really bothered me when I saw a fan walk over to him in a very nice way and say she was a big fan and have a picture with you. And he didn't say one word. He turned his back and walked away. It's my business. He was having a bad night. I'm just saying I know what I hear. Dan, if he's concerned about his reputation, it may be

important for him to know this. Dan, you got to finish your sentence. Now, hold on a second. Okay. I want to say two things. One of these things I said on one of our podcasts prior. Seinfeld's humor is a direct outgrowth of his particular

personality. That kind of sarcastic, perhaps snarky, whatever adjective you want to put on that sensibility, that's who he is. And that's why he's able to come up with all that material. If he had a happy-go-lucky personality, he would not have been able to create Seinfeld. So you got to take it as it comes, number one. Number two, when I see somebody walk up

to a super famous person in the olive tree, my reaction is exactly the opposite of what you're describing. My reaction is always, where the fuck is my staff? Why have we not insulated this famous person from being put in the position where some stranger has to interrupt them and start talking to them? I know I'm a moderately,

a moderately known public person. I don't like it when anybody comes and bothers me i mean i grin and bear it and sometimes if they're if they're very charming or hot you know it's all right but in general i'm like why you why why do you think why would one any person customer think that that famous person there wants to be bothered with you walking up to them and and buttonholing them you know he's like i mean my venue is also much smaller than yours we have a very small bar that's what i'm saying if i was you i would and i would and seinfeld came in i would tell my door

guys don't let anybody near him that's what i would say and if somebody did get near him i'd be like i'm sorry jerry we let you down because I know you didn't want to come here in a tiny little place and be at the mercy of the judgment of my customers of when it was a good time to bother you. And when it was not, how many times they should ask you whether they should ask you for an autograph, how they'll,

how to get, how do you get them? We know some of these people, they've had a few drinks that you can't get them to walk away. Like, like what are we bugging? We typically don't allow people to bother them this person got got through um we're different also you know you said you don't want to be bothered like i want to be nice to people you know if if i you know i if comics amateur comics want to like call me text

me email me i give I give them my number. I give them my email address, you know? It is not nice to walk up to a person, famous or otherwise. They don't know that. A lot of these people – Come on, you can't blame the audience member for that, Noam. An audience member is starstruck. He's adored this person for years.

Are you suggesting the audience member was wrong to approach Seinfeld? That's not fair. Yeah, I am suggesting that. I wouldn't do it. Well, you wouldn't do it because you're not a starstruck... Is there anyone you would do it to? No, I would not bother somebody.

Barack Obama? Is there someone that you really look up to? Al Pacino, Robert De Niro Is there someone I would not bother somebody on their own time Unless I saw some reason to think That it would be happily received When you were 20 years old

If you saw Marlon Brando Would you walk over to him? I don't know, maybe I would have at 20 years old, if you saw Marlon Brando, would you walk over to him? I don't know. Maybe I would have a 20 years old. If I got my nose slapped, I'd learn a lesson. Don't bother people. Like, you know, after a show, if somebody's hanging around after a show, clearly that's a time when people want to, when stars

are open to meeting people. If Seinfeld goes to the bar, whatever it is, but if he is retreating into what is obviously meant to be a cordoned off space, then it's up to the club owner to protect the integrity of that cordoned off space. That incident happened in the bar. Seinfeld was having a drink in the bar.

Assuming it's up to the club owner. Okay, so the club owner didn't do his job by your estimation but are you going to blame the audience member for for being starstruck and in love yes i do all the time dan you haven't seen me get mad at somebody now you walked up to somebody shouldn't because that's what that's these people are the reason we get to do what we do me on a very small level seinfeld on a very big level these are lovers of what we do. Me on a very small level, Seinfeld on a very big level. These are lovers of what we do. I don't blame them for coming up to us. And at a certain point, of course,

it gets to be a little bit too much. But how can you blame somebody for loving what you do and being angry at them for loving what you do? And telling someone you appreciate how good of a comic they are or how good of an actor they are, That's a nice thing to say to someone.

What you're saying is not ridiculous, Dan. And anger is not the word I would describe, but I know that what happens is that usually, or with a high percentage of the time, when somebody walks up to Jerry Seinfeld, they don't just say, Mr. Seinfeld, I just want to tell you I love your work, and walk away. They linger on. They try to tell a joke.

My friend, my father, this and that. And somebody says, he can't pick and choose, and he probably chews, and he just decides, listen, I am not going to, I'm just going to cut these all off when they happen. I got to tell you, it doesn't bother me.

What can I tell you? It just doesn't bother me. I'm not going to comment on the particular incident fall off when they happen. I got to tell you, it doesn't bother me. What can I tell you? I just doesn't bother me. I'm not going to comment on the particular incident that Donnie has related to us. And it's always possible that Seinfeld was having a bad day, but I assume when you're reaching, when you reach that level of notoriety, you figure out how to deal with it in a, in a way that's, you know, I mean, you know, in a way we know ridiculously famous people know them and, and they figured out how to deal with's, you know, I mean, in a way, we know ridiculously famous people know him and they figured out how to deal with it.

You know, Ray Romano has figured out how to deal with it in a way that I don't think ever leaves the- This is my naked son, brother. Can you get out of there? But it's not appropriate. I think Ray's figured out, I've never seen Ray in action, but it seems like Ray has figured out

how to keep his intimacy and his privacy at the same time, not make people feel like shit. Adam Sandler also. I assume there's a way to do it. And some people are better at it than others. It may just be that Seinfeld is just not at ease in those situations

and he might have social anxiety disorder. And I'm related to him. Are you related? Well, we're all related if you go back. He's on my family tree. Well, listen, I can list. I can list. Grandmother from Syria.

Dan, you can too. I can list easily 10 famous comedians who feel exactly the same way as Jerry Seinfeld in terms of wanting to be kept away from a dork band. I feel that way and I'm not famous. But if someone... I was just going to ask you, how do you feel when somebody

comes up to you, Dan, after a show and they say, oh, Mr. Natterman, I love you. He follows them around. I mean, if they... Very rare instances, I'm not i i feel uneasy but but and what do you do what do you do so you say oh i saw you on america's got talent i love you i think you're so brilliant and funny as as noam like would happily remind me i'm not

at that level that sign that i don't get it all the time. But if I were at that level, I assume as many celebrities have, figure out a way to both keep your distance, but not make people feel bad. I think there's probably a way to do it that works at least most of the time. I mean, there's always gonna be an instant where you have to cut somebody off because they're being too aggressive

and there's gonna be bad feelings. I think 99% of the time that you get get approached you can interact with the person in a way that makes them feel good and preserves your pro your distance as much as possible right part of the job being famous part of the job description dan is to be reasonably you know i think we lost sight of what we're talking about here though however first of all i want to say that Donnie has balls of steel. We keep losing Rebecca. Hold on. Donnie's got balls of steel,

and he's the type of guy I should worry about because somebody with that kind of fucking moxie is certainly the kind of guy who can wind up on top of the industry. That's going on my new website, by the way. Balls of Steel. Yes, Balls of Steel. But having said that, we're not talking about

a private estimation here. Yeah, it would be kind of nice if so-and-so was a little more friendly or I don't know why he has to be quite so guarded, you know, be a little bit more of a mensch,

whatever it is. We're talking about going public and criticizing this guy in the papers for this we're talking about just privately saying you know i wish his personality were a little bit more gracious or so whatever that you want to call it which i don't even agree with but i'm like yeah you can you can say that i wish he was more friendly but like to say that this rises the level where he should be called out in the newspapers no i know you called him out because your called you a partner, I think. He called James a putz.

Second of all, he's an asshole. He was very harsh with James. Chris Rock, and he also poked fun at the club when we're closed. I mean, he probably did give you a lot of good publicity. How do you put down a club that's struggling right now? That's forced to be closed. He probably did give you publicity though, Donnie, I will say. But guys like Chris Rock, you could tell he's a shy guy.

I would never put someone like him down. Whenever I see him, he doesn't want to be bothered. He's not mean to people. He's just okay. Seinfeld, it seems like that's his persona where he's a prick, and I just don't think that's cool. I do think he was very harsh on James in that article. If you remember, James had said New York is dead. I don't agree that New York is dead.

I'm not even sure James agrees that New York is dead, but he wrote that article. Well, he didn't write the title to the article, though. I think it's, you know, you also have to— The article did say New York is dead. Here's why but and I and I and I and I run I'm the managing partner here I run the club so like when he says you know we need sprucing up like he doesn't know what type of financial position we're in like that wasn't that wasn't a nice thing to say I mean that really was not a nice thing to say. I mean, that really was not a nice thing to say

about a comedy club on the Upper West Side. While he's in the Hamptons. Like, he doesn't give a shit about... True, while he's in the Hamptons. I mean, that's fair enough also. All right, I'm not going to take a side on your tit-for-tat with Seinfeld if what you're saying is that this other criticism somehow, and I have to take a side on your on your tit for tat with seinfeld if what you're saying is that this

other criticism somehow i have to take that into consideration in order to decide whether or not he should have been nice to your customer i would say that i don't think one has anything to do with the other but i i just want to say my experience with seinfeld is that he is to himself and he doesn't want to be bothered however without being asked he's actually been quite generous i've seen him be quite generous both to to my club and to people and he's just he just he just values his time being left alone that's that's just the way he is can i ask you a question john yeah yeah how like don't you think these big name comics should be stepping up and be more being more supportive of comedy clubs no really why should they i mean because you you you know you discovered a lot of talent you put these people on stage oh come on i i i discovered other clubs

go ahead and other clubs i'm sorry i can't read and uh someone votes i can't read and talk at the same time um you know and a lot of clubs you know discovered other talent and put them on stage and then they become big and famous and they make a lot of money and i i they're turning aren't they turning their back on these clubs that was a stepping stone for them to get where they are today. I mean, they have the power. We're not asking for money. They have the power of their platform to organize a fundraiser

to support clubs and its employees. Like donate 10, 15 minutes of their time to help save an industry. Well, to be honest, I just don't see the world that way. Listen, when things first happened, like my mobility started to go fund me for my staff and raise over $100,000.

And I did get a call from one very famous comic. I don't want to say the name of the person who said there's anything I can do to help. And if you arrange a fundraiser for comedy clubs, I suppose some people might do it. There was something like that for comics early on. But then I just, I see it the opposite way. might do it there was something like that for comics early on but then i i just well where i see it the opposite way i i see it that anytime somebody famous or somebody became famous who

worked at my club i was the lucky one not them i mean i i presume that somebody was very gifted and talented would have made it anyway and and i'm just lucky that they walked into the comedy cell i don't think they owe me shit i owe i owe them not not not oh i just think it's the right thing to do and and we are that's presuming that's presuming that they don't have their own brother-in-law their own family their own brother-in-law's business they have their own brother-in-law, their own family, their own brother-in-law's business. They have their own lives of people who are intimate and close with them, who if they feel inclined to help, they can help those. They don't owe us anything. I mean, you could be right. I just don't see the world that way. And I'm telling you, I think by not seeing the world that way, you avoid a lot of grudges in your life because everything is an

equal exchange in business. A comedian comes in, he gets his a hundred bucks. He does his set and neither of you owe each other anything else. Everything else is just going to be opportunistic. Nobody owes, nobody owes anybody anything. That's it. That's the way I see the world. Yeah. I mean, like I saw, I saw Roy Wood Jr. last week and I told him about this fundraiser we wanted to do in February. He's like, dude, like I'm in anything you can do to support it. You know? Yeah. I think a lot of people would do it if it's there, but do they have to call me up and say, I mean, they have their own lives.

They don't, I just don't, I just think that's, I don't think that's realistic. I think you're going to have a lot of disappointment going forward in this industry. If you think that people owe you something when you're in trouble. Not, not, not, not, Oh, but to realize that there is this comedy industry in New York, that's really struggling right now. And they're not getting any help from the city and clubs are shutting down.

I'm like, I'm just surprised that some big name comics haven't stepped up to ask the city for help. Well, listen, fair enough, you're surprised. And what I'm saying, because I'm kind of older and arrogant, is don't be surprised the next time.

Yeah, I've learned something. The world doesn't work that way. Nobody's coming, okay? You got to worry about yourself, and they don't owe you anything. And they really don't. They really don't owe you anything. They come down, like people come to the Comedy Cellar, and every time somebody famous comes in there,

and my audience goes home having a great time, and they write about it and whatever it is and that's increases my my my you know goodwill value my business and that's more than enough i don't i don't need to ask them for more i just don't anyway i think that was that's uh that's uh i tend to side to side with noam on that one i tend to side with Noam on that one. I tend to side with Johnny a little bit more on the Seinfeld issue, with Noam a bit more on that last issue. Our friend or nemesis, Seth Simons, has been...

Juanita, hold on. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You just... I love that. Our friend, nemesis... I've grown to have a certain amount of, less outrage about him,

has been saying many of the things that you're saying, Donnie. He's been tooting the horn that the big name comedians are supposed to step in. But on the other hand, he's also been knocking the comedy clubs for trying to do their underground shows and whatever it is. Do you have any comments on him? You know who he is, right? I don't know what it is about him that makes you feel less angry.

I feel that he would send you to a re-education camp if he could. My only comment about him is, I don't know why Chris Italia from the stand keeps on fighting with them on Twitter. Like I want, I want to tell Chris, like, dude, like if you feel like responding to him, like call me, like let's talk like, well, I don't know why people spend so much. I totally agree. I totally agree with you, Donnie. It, I don't, I don't understand like why people are even discussing this.

I do want to say this i don't know anything about the seinfeld thing or anything else but i would like to say that as a rule i don't think it's that fucking difficult to be a little bit gracious to people no matter i mean we've talked about this before and you think it's ridiculous but like like, I don't care who you are, how famous you are. Like, it's not that hard to like take two seconds to not be a dick. Well, maybe it is, you know, that maybe, maybe, maybe you need to understand what it's like to not have a fucking moment to yourself, uh, uh, 24 hours a day. I do understand what it's like. I do understand what it's like. I'm a mother, so I do understand.

That's a completely different thing. Listen, we've discussed this. I've hung out with... Maybe I see other people doing it now. I've hung out with some of the most famous rock stars in the fucking world. Who? I mean, I'm not...

I don't need to name drop. I mean, I could, but I'm not going to. Well, you should, just so we have a, you know. Axl Rhodes. Benny Kravitz, Mikhail Baryshnikov, the Rolling Stones. I mean, I've seen Puff Dalia. He's a rock star in the ballet world. I mean, Lil' Kim.

Like, I've seen people are not. Naomi Campbell. I mean, I could go on it's like it doesn't take that much fucking effort to not be an asshole for two okay I gotta tell you I see differently I guess I'm gonna I'm gonna end up name dropping myself but my friend Steve we went we

got invited to Brazil to see the Rolling Stones Bon Jovi hold on hold on and we got invited to go see the Rolling Stones by one of the people playing with them. And we were backstage and it was offered to me, do you want to come meet, I think it was Keith Richards or one of them, whatever. And I'm backstage, right? I'm like, no, no. And why did I say no? Because I'm like, this poor guy, I'm going to walk in there.

He's going to have to smile. He's going to have to shake my hand, pretend he gives a shit. I'm like, he's about to go on stage. Let me just leave him alone. Like, I think that you guys are wrong about this. If you want to be a mensch, you leave somebody alone. Hugh Jackman came to the club a year and a half ago. And it was a Saturday night

it was packed and like right away he saw I got a heads up that he was coming so I brought my girls who were a big Greatest Showman fan and Hugh Jackman walked in saw my two girls like in the bench in the window like right away sat next sat next next to them put his arm around them talked to them for 10 minutes and like really made them feel special and gave gave gave them it was like beautiful it was beautiful to see and like he was kind to everybody and taking pictures with people he can have all the privacy i mean these are people that have their own islands they can have all the privacy they want look no i agree with you i don't go up to people either and- But you guys are really wrong here.

By throwing up the example- Noam, there's two different issues. Number one is, should you go up and bother a celebrity? Number two is, the second issue is, if your natural human weakness and adoration or naivete pushes you toward saying hi to a celebrity, what should his reaction be? Maybe you did the right thing by not going backstage you're a grown man you're not starstruck you're a young starstruck kid you're going to go up to a star you're going to say something and the question then becomes

how best how should the star handle the situation so those are two separate questions i don't think i don't think these people are obligated to go out of their way or, you know, I just think it's like what you said before, Dan, there's a way to handle it and walk away. No, there is no way. There is no way to handle it because people don't take no for an answer. How many times have I seen, hey, Mr. CK, can I get a picture with you? Well, not right now. Well, please, it'll just take a second.

No, really, I can't do it right now. Come on, please. Come on, honey, come on. There is no, and the thing is that when you're in that situation, you don't want to wait to see how it all pans out. Yeah, that's true too. That's a fair point also. You know what? It usually pans out.

I mean, there's some psychos out there, but in most cases, it pans out okay. I know what Louis says, and I've seen him say it. I'm grateful to you, and I'm grateful to meet you. I don't take pictures. Come on, but please. But it'll just take a second. It'll just take a second. Yeah, well, if they get that aggressive,

then you got to move to plan B. But your initial reaction, plan A, should not be hostility. You give them a- Hostility is just like, no. Okay, but I don't know what happened to Seinfeld and that customer, but assuming he just turned his back

without saying a word, that is not the best way to- Maybe he didn't hear her. Maybe he didn't- All this is possible, but the point is, somebody comes up to you, Mr. Seinfeld, Mr. CK, Mr. Whomever, I love you, I love what you do.

Your first reaction... Don't you see, Dan? Your first reaction should not be turn your head. I met Seinfeld for the first time. I appreciate it. Most people will say, sorry to bother you, I just wanted to say that and leave. Then you move

to a more aggressive stance. I met Seinfeld for the first time at your club, Noam. I was probably 16 years old and he did take a picture with me.

I asked him to take a picture. I put my arm around him and he said, don't touch me. Can't blame him for that. Well, they see this, but he agreed to take a picture with you right he did yeah so and and he said don't touch me and and you know no no no good no good he goes unpunished right so he would take a picture with you and now the story is he said

don't touch me rather than he was really nice to me actually one time i saw him he agreed to take a picture with me so maybe the second time i saw him i should just say i don't know maybe he had a bad day like i actually have some experience with him he's not always like this he take a picture with me. So maybe the second time I saw him, I should just say, I don't know, maybe he had a bad day. Like, I actually have some experience with him. He's not always like this. He took a picture with me. So maybe he was, you know, maybe he couldn't be bothered with that person right then. I have to say, I think don't touch me is fair enough though. I mean, that

feels legit. If you're taking a picture with somebody, they put your arm around, and that's just, come on. That's natural, no? No, no. Having strangers come up to you and start wrapping their arms around you. You put your arm around a shoulder. That's what you do.

You can't just stand next to a person. That's what people do. Can I zoom out here? Because you understand, that's what people do when they take a picture. I mean, if you don't, you know, that isn't. You understand that this is all all that this point of view is all related and it's all related to being Jewish.

Well, yeah, it's all related to a we almost have a million here. This is going to sound harsher than I mean. It's the word because it's all related to where you to a sense of entitlement. In other words, if you view the world in terms of obligations that other people have to you

in some way or another, then he wasn't nice to the customer who went up to him. He didn't, he's not doing a fundraiser for us. Comedy clubs are trouble. He's not showing proper appreciation because we discovered people, you know, you know, and that's, and that I think is exactly the backwards way of looking at the world. I think it's wrong. You'll always be disappointed. You'll always be upset with people.

Because that is not, I mean, how many people do you view that you owe that you walk around? How many people do you call up? I believe I owe everybody, and I'm not in Seinfeld's position. I believe I owe everybody courtesy. I'm not commenting on whether Seinfeld is courteous or not. seinfeld's position i believe i owe everybody courtesy i'm not commenting on whether a seinfeld is courteous or not i'm just saying i believe no leave it i'm zooming out from seinfeld i'm saying in general like this in general i believe that i that that that i owe people courtesy especially people that are helping to pay my rent i have i have never seen seinfeld

be discourteous i am sorry you're zooming outinfeld, so I'm zooming out from Seinfeld. As far as what a celebrity owes his fans, I don't think it's what celebrity owes their fans. I think it's what we all owe each other as a society. A certain minimum level of courteousness. It's not courteous to walk up to somebody and bother them. That's what I'm trying to say to you. First of all, this was probably a kid, number one.

Kids, that's still not courteous. Come on, come on, come on. I really believe this. I'm not just saying it because of this. elaborate first of all this was probably a kid number one kids that's still not courteous come on come on come on i really believe this i'm not just saying it because it is i've said this for years you've heard me say you're a mental case if this isn't because the rest of the world loves their their heroes they love them they go up to them they see them and they go crazy and and comics do this too on occasion although we're a little better trained not to. People love their heroes. They can't help themselves.

A normal person who's not constantly looking at everything as a formula with a ledger and the pros and cons doesn't think he goes, he sees a celebrity that he's loved for 20 years, 10 years. I'm going to go further, Dan. That's how normal people react. Let me tell you this, Dan. Comitons do what you do. Will Mick Jagger want to meet me? Probably not. Dan, Dan, let me, I'm going to tell you something. You tell me if I'm wrong. I believe there is a straight line from the mentality that I'm describing to you to the comedy seller's success. I believe that if I didn't,

if I didn't have exactly the mentality that I have, I would not have nearly the success I have because one thing the comedians know, the most famous people in the world know, and this includes Louis when he, when I was going to have my head on a guillotine for him is that I don't ask them for a fucking thing ever. I, they walk in, I don't bother them. I don't ask for an autograph for my son. I don't, I don't bother them. I don't ask for an autograph for my son. I do not ask for a thing.

I say, do you need anything to drink? Is everything okay? I don't even. Yes, that's fine. And I agree with you. But from there to then. And they appreciate it. I agree with everything you just said.

But from there to then say that a 20- old kid shouldn't go up to his his idol and and and and ask for a picture or an autograph that's ridiculous i don't think no i'm saying that he shouldn't go up to him i think what no i'm saying is he was saying that he was saying that he shouldn't expect the person that he goes up to to sort of extend themselves to. Not extend, but as you said, Most celebrities have figured out how to do it with some mixture of courtesy, but also distance. It's not an easy thing to do, I imagine. It's not an easy tightrope to walk, but some people-

This reminds me of the only time I ever, my father- But these are the people without whom you would have, as a celebrity, you wouldn't have anything at all. Does it mean you owe them your kidney? No. I think it does mean you owe them some minimal degree of courtesy, whatever that is,

and we can argue what that would be. And I think most celebrities have figured out how to do that. When Jerry Seinfeld was doing his documentary that he did called Comedian, and he shot a lot of it at the Olive Tree. What was this TV? My father went up to him. And my father really never bothered Seinfeld. My father says, Listen, Jerry, I know that, you know, in your situation, you probably have people coming up to you all the time and

asking you for money. but hear me out. And Seinfeld really laughed at that. But that was my father's kind of swipe at exactly what we're talking about. I don't think you quite comprehend what it's like to be in the center of that hurricane, you know, whatever. We don't know. Yes, but I do see people doing it with, that are at the center of that hurricane that do it with grace and a plum maybe it's not maybe they're extraordinary

people yes that's right oh steve wants to say something i want to hear what you outside steve wants to come i want to hear what steve has to say you gotta come to the mic please don't refer him to that as outside steve his name is steve and he doesn't like to be called outside steve thank you daniel um no it's like a homeless person. You got a haircut, Steve. You look good. Oh, thank you. It's like a homeless person

coming up to you and asking you for money. Yeah, but I don't say fuck you. I don't say fuck you. Well, I say, I mean, at some point, if it's,

if he's really aggressive, I would, I say no. Yeah, it's annoying. Of course it's annoying. I don't say fuck you, go away. I say, I'm sorry, I say, no, yeah, it's annoying. Of course it's annoying. I don't say, fuck you, go away. I say, I'm sorry. I said, anyway, I do mean, and then if he continues to be aggressive, which they usually do not, then of course it's time for partial measures. But I did mean what I said about Donnie, you have balls of steel, you got Trump balls there.

You don't give a shit. You're not scared of anybody and there there is a certain amount of um of uh currency a certain amount of success that comes to people with that amount of especially at a younger age with that kind of um bravery so who am i to say you know oh steve wants to say one more thing once he starts go ahead i actually did go backstage with mick jagger and we had a great time did he go back well and we had a great time. Did he go back? Well, Steve had a great time. I didn't go. Well, no one was sitting on the side of the stage.

I would have gone. I would have met Mick. Maybe I'm not a mensch. I want to meet Mick Jagger. I didn't want to. I also sat down and talked to Katy Perry at the Comedy Cellar. Maybe I shouldn't have done that. Well, no, that was different.

That was at the comedian table with John Mayer. But yeah, but I didn't have to tell her that, you know. Your Cousin Sheila joke? I didn't have to ask her if I could sniff her underarm. That was uncalled for. I didn't have to talk to her. I talked to her about her song, how cute her sketch was with Elmo on Sesame Street.

Were you there the time that he brought Jessica Simpson in? No, I wasn't there. Va-va-voom. Wow. She was super hot. Did you talk to her? Did you ask her for her autograph? No? I spoke to her because I was at the table. I didn't ask her for her autograph. No.

Listen, I think it's embarrassing to go up to people to begin with, but, you know, it's a messy thing. I'll tell you something else. Now, my father was very, very close with Ray Romano. Very close. And back in the 90s, there was a company that wanted to do

a TV show slash reality-ish show from the Cafe Wa featuring my band. And this was a big opportunity. And they wanted to get, and Ray Romano had actually done, had actually said something about the Cafe Wa being his favorite place in New York in an interview in New York Magazine. And he used to come there all the time. He was a big fan of the band. He flew us to California to play for his party.

And anyway, but they wanted, they asked if you think Ray Romano would come on camera for a second and just talk about how he loves the band. And they asked my father to ask Ray, would he do that? And there's no question Ray would have done it. No question at all.

And my father wouldn't ask him. close as they were with all the other thing with everything and everything and discovering him and all that shit and it would have been nothing to ray my father would not ask ray romano for that little favor so and i think he was right not to ask and i didn't question it because and i and i wanted it to happen because could have changed my life but i didn't question it. And I wanted it to happen because it could have changed my life. But I didn't question it. I understood. I didn't ask who gave the order. I got to jump off.

I'm about to go on Kennedy. You don't mean the building, do you? Who should I attack? I'm Kennedy Nation. Listen, Danny, I hope you're not upset about anything I said because we just speak very bluntly on this show. No, Danny, Danny, I hope you don't mind. I hope you're not upset about anything I said, because we just speak very bluntly on this show. Dude, of course not. I don't take anything personally. Well, that's not true.

Clearly that's not true. Okay. Go ahead. Listen, good luck. Well, we will all be out of this. You have a rich partner. Don't worry. You're going to be open. You'll be open again. And he's also wrong about New York. New York will be back. And we'll all have a drink. And, you know, it'll be fine.

Amen. Thanks for having me on. Happy Hanukkah. Thank you. You too. Bye, Donnie. Thank you. Thanks, Kari. Usually we like to talk about it. Bye, Donnie. Thank you. Thanks, Carl.

Let Donnie go. Usually we like to talk about it. Dan likes to talk about it, I guess, after. So go ahead. Do sign off, and then Dan has a few things he wants to say about you. Thanks, guys. Have a good night. I think Noam might have something.

I think we pretty much said everything that needs to be said. You're very feisty tonight. I think it's a good look for you. You're talking to me? Yeah, you're much more assertive, making sure that you're not- No, I get very assertive when certain issues, when I think Noam is- The truth is I usually agree with Noam, but when I don't agree with Noam, I think I'm pretty assertive.

The thing is this. Okay, so you think blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Would you own a comedy club and go public and go to war with one of the most important? Like, what would you? That to me is amazing. It might end up being a publicity boost for him that's ultimately positive. Oh, I forgot to bring it up when he was there.

God damn it. Because you know what he said in his interview? He said that they brought Seinfeld a gift basket from Zabar's. They sent Seinfeld a gift basket from Zabar's. They sent Seinfeld a gift basket from Zabar's and Seinfeld never said thank you. I'm like, oh, come on now. That's like my Philip Roth. Isn't that exactly like my Philip Roth story? Well, you offered him pussy, but it's solid. You offered him something valuable.

And he never said thank you. All right. I got to go. Bye. Wait. That was an abrupt goodbye. Why do you got to go so late? I just realized my kids are here listening to me. Wait a second. I do want to, before I do want to,

go ahead. Before, I mean, if we're about to finish up, I would like to briefly mention Katie Lazarus, if I could. Oh yes. Go ahead.

Absolutely. Was she ever on this show, by the way yes Dan she was don't you remember I vaguely remember she was excellent before my time she was a great guest and I was very taken with her we we kept in touch we kept in touch via email for a while after I didn't realize what Katie is very much like Perrielle which is probably why you like her no because despite what people might think you're very fond of periel and she's katie was very very liberal very very left wing uh but also very very sweet and uh very much like periel very very nice and very left wing oh i think i probably think i think they would have

been very good friends had they known each other katie was did some stand-up but she mostly hosted a show called the ploy of the Month at Joe's Pub, where she interviewed some pretty big names, Jon Stewart among them, Gloria Steinem, Kurt Anderson, I believe Lin-Manuel Miranda, among others. And she was diagnosed with stage four cancer about six years ago. And you wouldn't even have known it if she didn't tell you or if you hadn't heard because her attitude was always so positive. She was battling about as horrific a diagnosis as there is

and she was the whole time laughing and smiling and working. I mean, to be honest with you, I never saw one of her shows at joe's pub i knew her as a human being and as a warrior against cancer and was quite impressed by those things um and she did do our show i i don't remember what the topic was what was the topic you remember it's about politics or whatever it is. And I agree with everything you just said. And, you know, I don't remember if I knew when she did the show that she had cancer or shortly after that. But, you know, it was amazing to see how she managed to keep a positive spin on life as she knew that she was probably dying. And, I mean, I don't think I have that in me

if I were in that situation. So anyway, so she died this week and her funeral was on YouTube. I watched it this morning. It was live streamed on YouTube. And yeah, it was very moving. So 44 years old, much too soon. So I guess I'll go ahead and say about that. Yeah, I mean, I think Perry Eleanor 44 years old, much too soon. I'm really sad.

She sounds amazing. Yeah, I mean, I think Perry Eleanor would have been actually fast friends. But in any case. All right. Coming for us all, people. Not me. We hope you're around for a long time to come that's katie lazarus but um uh she you can go she this was i think she's already losing weight here to tell you the truth so um uh she

sure looks thinner there than i that i remember her oh god it's you know it's just not fair that people get sick like that how's that for a trite statement? But it's just not fair. It's just not fair. There's no God. Well, if there is a God, then... Now my kids are... I'm sorry. I'm kidding. Daddy likes the kid. I know. I know. Could you hear what she said? Yeah. Some people believe in God and you shouldn't piss on their beliefs. She didn't use that terminology. My daughter has such a good heart. I'm telling you, she shows it time and time again. Oh, there she is. Yeah, that's a nice picture, Katie. She's starting to look a bit more like a Dwarven. She still has plenty of Juanita in her, but I am seeing more Dwarven as the years go on. It's a nice, it actually works together.

The mix actually works together uh the mix actually works quite well well she also has her dye her hair dyed green okay um well that that's it uh so um who do we have next week perry alash and bran um let's see next week we have damon linker oh he's a he's a good writer. Very good writer. Damon Linker. I don't know who that is. Well, you have a week to get up to speed. All right.

We have to go. Listen, everybody. Send your emails to podcast at comedyseller.com. That's my son, Manny, without his shirt on. Podcast

at comedyseller.com. Come here, Mila. Come here. Say goodbye to everybody. Say goodbye, Mila. Goodbye, Mila. Bye. Peggy.

All right. Hi, everybody. Look at them. I yelled at this one all day today. He took a mental beating from me today. Look at him. Your employees, if they're listening, are sympathetic. They know what it's like to get a gnome tongue lashing. It is not

pretty. I've seen it. In any case, we'll see you next time. Okay. Bye, everybody.