The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Rebecca Trent and James Altucher

Episode Date: January 18, 2019

Rebecca Trent and James Altucher

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. We're here at the back table, of course, with Mr. Dan Natterman. Dan Natterman. Good evening, Dan. How do you do? I just got in from JFK. I was in Arizona, so I'm slightly fatigued.

On a gig? I was doing a gig. I was out there making some dough at a corporate gig. JetBlue Mint? No, no. I was American Airlines. Coach? Coach class, but I did pay $40 to sit up front.

I got a little extra leg room. Extra leg room. And for Wi-Fi. And I did. I paid $16 for Wi-Fi. It's free on JetBlue. And a flat bed on JetBlue Mint. Flying coach was probably a distant memory for our first guest, Mr. James Altucher.

He's the owner of Stand Up New York Comedy Club. Co-owner. He's a co-owner. It doesn't say co-owner. Oh, it does say co-owner, yeah. As well as someone who made a lot of money. I don't know if he made a lot of money or not, but he was involved in hedge funds and Bitcoin and all kinds of financial stuff.

Stuff. Are you still bullish on Bitcoin? I am bullish on Bitcoin. You don't... You judge things by their value, not necessarily by their day-to-day price. I'm not going to argue about Bitcoin because I don't know anything I'm talking about.

But how can it be worth anything? It's nothing. How is paper money worth anything? Well, because it's backed by the United States government. Not anymore. Well, it's not backed by the gold anymore. Not backed by gold, because it's backed by the United States government. Not anymore. Yeah, of course it is. Well, it's not backed by the gold anymore. Not backed by gold, but it's backed by the government.

You have to pay taxes in it. So that's where its value derives from. And I know this blockchain is supposed to be so secure, but it also can't just be hacked by somebody and all disappear. True. Or people legally say, I'm not accepting it. You have to accept dollars. So you don't have any Bitcoins then?

No, I mean, I would play around for fun, but I mean, it's hard for me to imagine. Well, we can get into the whole thing with it, but it's not necessary. There's also Rebecca Trent. I bought a Bitcoin last year and got my money out and made a little bit of money.

I'm the owner of the Creek and the Cave. He was supposed to say that. The owner of the Creek and the Cave. He was supposed to say that. The owner of the Creek and the Cave Comedy Club. We've met on this podcast. Yeah, we did. We met on this podcast a year ago. I think the day after you bought into Stand Up New York or right around that. Yeah, basically that because it was in the podcast.

Yeah, I told Norm and you were funny. You said, okay, shut down the podcast. Now, you're a co-owner. Are you a majority owner? I am equal with the co-owner., you're a co-owner. Are you a majority owner? I am equal with the co-owner. Equal with the co-owner. Now, James is something very, he's almost an evil genius. Because he actually had it both ways on the Louis C.K. thing.

He actually was out there championing Louis C.K. While his booker was out there saying she would never book Louis C.K. How did you feel about Candy? I mean, did she run that by you before that got put out there? No. And, of course, that's, you know, we could debate whether the booker should run things by the owner, but as

an owner, you don't want to necessarily be involved in the booking. Now, did she make a business decision for the business? That's another question. But definitely I would stand by the booker's beliefs on any issue.

I think it's an interesting discussion in comedy clubs. The booker and the owner are almost never the same person. There's usually a separate... It has to be that way, as everybody here knows. Well, because a separate... It has to be that way, as everybody here knows. Well, because the owner doesn't want to get bombarded

with requests to get on stage. Well, and look, also, I perform at Stand Up New York, and I defer to Candy booking me. I can't just put myself on the stage. Well, of course you can, if you wanted to. No, but I would never do that.

I would never do that. I would never want... Look, I mean, yeah, I wouldn't want to book. She books. I'm the booker of my comedy club. But that's the exception, not the rule. I'm often the exception that proves the rule.

We just said that earlier. But Noam, of course, Esty is the booker. She's been the booker for decades now. I would never want to book because it's tedious. As an owner, I don't want to do anything. I want to run things and then be able to spend as much time playing guitar, doing only the aspects of the business that I enjoy.

So years ago when I was into software, I would spend hours just programming the website or whatever it is. And booking the room is very, very tedious work. So much better to have somebody come and put the whole thing on paper for you. Well, it's better if you can afford it. Now, if you're doing a shoestring... But I am involved in the booking because in the end, it's run by me before it gets

out there. So I... I mean, I usually rubber stamp it, but sometimes I do make changes. And no matter what, just the fact that I have to approve it every week and my feelings about these things are known creates a certain product output. Now, when somebody comes to you and says, you know, I'd like to perform here, do you say, oh, I'm not in charge, Dr. Esty? No.

I say, send me a link to your video. Now, what about you, James? If a comic came up to you and said, hey, you're a part owner at San Diego. I'd love to your video. Now, what about you, James? If a comic came up to you and said, hey, you're a part owner of San Diego, I'd love to work there. In most cases, I'll just introduce them to Candy, the booker, or if it's somebody I've known and seen, but in other cities around the U.S.

and they're visiting New York, I'll say to Candy, this is where I've seen them, this is the experience I had and the experience I saw and the audience they drew, and then usually she'll try them out. But she might also want to see a video. So now wait. I'm going to get back to the evil genius thing and then we'll move on.

So you're saying that if Louie's assistant contacted you, like walked in here tonight and said, Louie wants to do a show at your club tomorrow, a surprise show, you would say, can't do it. My booker said no. No, I think I personally, if I was making the decision who's going up tomorrow, which, you know... Would you override her decision? If she was there

and she said, no way, I'm quitting booking if we put Louise K, then I would say, fine, we're not going to put Louise K up. But, you know, if she's not there every night,

she's not booking every night, she's not booking every slot, I love Louis C.K., I would put him up. So did we actually get an answer there? I'm not sure either because it would have to happen. Well, if Candy didn't threaten to quit. The answer is that James values Candy a great deal, and if she threatened to quit. The threat to quit is he introduced that as a part of it. But the thing is, it's like you said, booking is a

difficult job. You have to have the network, you have to have the connections, you have to be organized for it. As you know, since you're doing it and running a comedy club, it's difficult. It may be as tedious at times and you have to deal with lots of different types of personalities. Candy's got her view on

booking, which we appreciate, which is why we love her there. If Louis C.K. came to me and said, can I go up to the state of New York, I would do everything I could to make sure, yes, he's up tomorrow. But that would involve calling Candy and saying, look, hopefully you don't quit because we want to put him up. This is a man who does not suffer from toxic masculinity. And empowers women. As far as booking being tedious.

I'm the beta male in the club, and Candy's the alpha male. I think you're the master beta male. The worst part about booking, from what I could see, is people harassing you all the time. It's not that bad, though. And hating you because you don't use them. People, well, that, sure, but there's nothing you can do about that. Some people fit, some people don't. But I think ultimately people tend to want to be, I don't know, well-mannered and respectful

when they're trying to get spots at places. So they're not going to go out of their way to be like douchey. That might be true, but I think a lot of comedians, this is all personality types. You get probably a wider spectrum of personality types in comedy than just about any other industry. But then someone shows you who they are. So if they're douchey, you just wouldn't have them on anyway. Oh, no.

We don't care if douchey does not enter into it here. Noam is very, very firm about separating his personal feelings for a comedian and his professional feelings. You could be the biggest asshole on two feet. If you kill downstairs, no one will use you. And he's quite proud of that. But let me say, I bet you, here more than any place else, there's a lot of anxiety among the comedians every month

when they send in their new avails, which spots am I going to get picked for? Will I get picked this week? So I think people are afraid they're not going to get picked to perform here. Sure, of course. For good reason. This is the biggest and the best comedy club in the city. It's the golden chalice.

So there's a lot of anxiety around it. And I can imagine, too, being in the owner, a lot of these people are your friends. You don't want to be involved in that anxiety and that fear and that stress that they have. I actually hate some comedians. Keith's up there now. You can see him. Keith is my favorite because there's not a favorite comedian.

What about Dan? I'll tell you why. Because Keith does not give a shit. He will say to me exactly what he's feeling. He doesn't care what fight it doesn't matter. And that makes me feel good. But from time to time you can sniff a comedian

who's laughing at your jokes a little bit too hard or whatever. It kills me. It bothers me. Because I don't want them to do that. Because they think it's going to help them get a spot. It's not going to help them get a spot. But also also, Keith is probably at, it's definitely at different points in his career

than many young, up-and-coming comedians. Keith's always been that way. Even to his detriment, actually. Like here, it works not to his disadvantage. In his favor, yeah. Or to his favor. Not to his favor, but it definitely doesn't hurt him. But in other contexts, it has, I'm sure,

worked to his detriment. But whatever definitely doesn't hurt him. But in other contexts, it has, I'm sure, worked to his detriment. But whatever. Like what? Like how? Maybe he comes up. He's told me some stories over time. I don't want to get them wrong. But he doesn't give a shit. He'll just say to anybody whatever he's thinking. And I like

that here. So James wrote, I don't know if you saw it, James wrote a defense of Louie's recent Parkland Parkland shooting victims jokes and the trans jokes and whatever it is.

He hung his hat largely on this work in progress argument. You want to run it down? There was a couple of things. One is I was basically responding to a lot of the different media that was sort of the anti-leaked tape of Louis' set. One is that is most important is that it's a work in progress. We've all seen a lot more

offensive comedy from top comedians when it's just a set downstairs here or at stand-up New York or anywhere and they're just working through material they're get there Louis CK at the beginning of maybe a year-long process of working through material this joke he might do the exact same joke in five different ways of five different clubs while he figures out what's the best by the way everyone was saying the joke was not funny. Everybody was laughing on the tape. And he didn't, it wasn't like he was

making fun of the shootings. He was making fun, the people misunderstood the context because they just wanted to attack him. The context is that, why are we choosing these people to be our media superstars when there's 7,500 deaths every day over many causes, and there's a lot of

causes where people should have a voice. Maybe give a voice to other people as well. Well, I didn't interpret it that way, but I didn't hear the whole set. I interpreted it as him saying, just because you're the victim of something doesn't make you an expert on that topic. If my house got blown away in a

tornado, it doesn't make me an expert on construction techniques. Right, so that's another point. Anthony Jeselnik... Or on tornado protection. Or, so that's another point. Anthony Jeselnik... Or on tornado protection. Or on tornado protection. So look at Anthony Jeselnik's special thoughts and prayers. He says it's never too soon to make fun of a tragedy. Why? Because victims are

dealing with victim shit. They're not listening to a special. I have some good William Stevenson's jokes to tell you. I'm sure the comedians would just love that. Well, but that's personal to this place. That's right. The point is that the comedians talk a good game, but the fact is, if we did tell some William Stevenson jokes,

William Stevenson is a comic who died this weekend. Unexpectedly. Unexpectedly, a feature here. All of a sudden, the comedians would have a little pang, at least a little pang of understanding, oh, you know what? It is upsetting when somebody jokes about something that matters to you,

a tragedy or whatever it is. Okay, but no, when I... No, because they weren't in the room. He didn't expect any of the Parkland... Sure, it's not like the Parkland kids were in there. But even, so I watched, and look, you could go to any comedian, but I watched Louis Tape, part of Louis 2017,

when he was performing at Madison Square Garden. It was one of the shows he was doing at 20,000 people there. The first joke was him saying, all Jews can leave now, which, of course, got a lot of laughter from Jews. And we've been asked to leave a lot of places. It wasn't that offensive for him to ask us to leave the Madison Square Garden. I mean, I have something to answer, but Rebecca, I'd like her to talk more. Well, I never saw the tape because I feel like in and of itself, the tape getting released

was bad. I think a comic needs to have a safe space in order to do their thing or whatever. So I just never listened to it. I'm not going to presume what the context is for the jokes and all that stuff. From what I've heard, it seems like he's done some way more offensive material besides that. Yeah, think about the maybe joke from Oh My God, where he basically concludes with, you know, slavery is bad, but maybe, and he gets into it. This is hugely potential for commentary.

I have to say, I thought this, listen, the most important point to me is I don't give a shit what he says. Like, you could be, I could be very offended at it, and so what? What does that mean? It shouldn't work?

Like, I mean, who cares what he says? But I would have to say that this was, when he personalized it to an actual victim and kind of made fun of that victim and said, you just pushed a fat kid in front of a bullet, that to me sounded like actual bitterness. It didn't sound like when he says all Jews can leave where clearly we know he doesn't mean anything like that. But there wasn't an actual victim that we know of that pushed a fat kid in front of a bullet. But he was referring

to this one actual kid, I guess the one who was speaking in front of the senator, congress, whatever and then he added to that in any way you just push a fat, that wasn't even true but he did, he actually talked about, like I feel like if he just talked about the Parkland kids without

actually talking about an actual living individual representative of them, it wouldn't have seemed as bitter. I don't think that fat kid remark was aimed at one particular Parkland survivor, but it may be the case. But I just want to add to that. Sorry for interrupting. I just want to add, he concluded that sentence with, why don't we talk to the guy who electrocuted his parents instead? So clearly that, he was leading up to an absurdist punchline because he's an absurdist. Yeah, absurdist is a big part of it.

I'd use that word a lot, actually, in talking about it. Sure. Judd Apatow made a point on Twitter that I, and I'm loathe to go toe-to-toe with Apatow because he gives me work, but I do it in a nice, gentle way. But on Twitter, Judd said that he felt that this was uncalled for. He accused the Parkland kids of pushing a fat kid in front of them. And I responded, that's not a real accusation.

That's an absurd accusation that obviously never happened. You responded to Judd Apatow? That's right. What are you, nuts? Well, and then he wrote, well, then he wrote something back and I let it go with that. Was it, you'll never work on crashing again? Isn't it really dangerous

when stuff starts to become like off limits though? Of course. Where does that end? It's our new booker, Periel, and by the way. I was being absurdist about Judd. I don't think he'd care what you said. Go ahead.

By the way, Periel is showing such... I don't know if it'll last. A new broom sweeps good. A new broom sweeps good indeed. I never heard that expression, but I think it's apropos here. Am I a broom in this scenario? Yes, you are.

Periel is really taking the bull by the horns. A new vibrator buzzes hard. In a major way. I like that better. I'm more comfortable with being a vibrator than a broom. It's a new relationship and, you know, it's all new and wonderful and we'll see if it lasts. But anyway, Perrielle, you had a point to make. My point is that I think it's really dangerous when you start saying, like, this is okay, but that's offensive.

Like, where does that end? Well, you know, I think everybody's entitled to their opinion as to what's offensive to them, but I'm loathe to say that a joke is just beyond the pale in general. I can only say what jokes I would do and what jokes I would find offensive. Right, but that's fine, but it's not like

Parkland is off-limits, but the Holocaust is okay. James, you say what? Well, to her point, also, is that we're talking about one thing, whether the joke's too offensive, but also a lot of the media was the joke wasn't funny.

Judd Abbott's tweet also was that, and to your point, that maybe there was too much anger in there and that it wasn't funny, but the proof is on the tape. The entire club is laughing, so I don't know. But to that point, also, nobody should have been listening to that tape because it should club is laughing. So I don't know. But to that point also,

nobody should have been listening to that tape because it should have never gone out. I agree with that. But given that the tape's out there, it was a pleasure to listen to because I love listening to it. I must say that when he said push the fat, that got a laugh out of me.

And I mentioned this on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. When he said, I didn't really think that those kids pushed the fat kid, but that idea, that notion, that absurd image to me provoked a laugh. And don't forget, it was paired with, just a few words later, why not talk to the guy who electrocuted his parents? Well, I didn't.

Which is clearly a ludicrous. I didn't hear that part. So actually, a good friend of mine who is kind of well-known, but I don't want to say his name, he's an intellectual, he said that the Parkland thing he thought was not offensive at all. He said, but the things that he said about Asians. Yeah, I think that that was. Was more problematic in the politics of the day. We talk about Asian men are really women.

They just have clits. Giant clits, not really penises. Yeah, so that might have been offensive. But also he was at a club doing a club set. In Long Island, no less. No, but if you change it to blacks or Jews. But what is wrong with being offensive suddenly?

Like, isn't that the job? You know what? This is what kills me about you. If Louis C.K. were making jokes like that and it was about black people, you would be saying, this is fucked up.

He shouldn't say it. But he did make jokes about black people in that set. Not quite like that. Yeah, not like that. But the truth is, the Asian men

haven't really been standing up for themselves on this. So he might have touched the truth there. The Asians, you know, people make fun of them more easily, I think. Just a joke. Just a joke, Marina. What? You keep doing that joke. Yeah, yeah, it's a good joke.

He's working his material. I mean, I think one of the rules of comedy is that it's safer to make fun of Asians than it is to make fun of black people. And probably the most unsafe group, I would think, are the Jews. I would think that is the touchiest group to make fun of. No. Blacks. Totally not true.

I don't know what the most... And honestly, I think that it's white people's reaction to people making fun of black people that's really the, you know what I mean? It's not, I mean, I don't know. I've been in plenty of rooms that have, I don't know. I don't know if that's true or not. These are gross generalizations. Yes, but they have validity. I think white women are the most problematic is what I'm trying to say.

I agree with you, Rebecca. We get offended too often and too much. White women are definitively the worst. These generalizations are born of 25 years of in-the-trenches stand-up, and there is validity to them. And the fact is the Asian American community does not kick up a fuss, and so it's easier just to kind of go after them because they generally don't get angry about it.

And also the history of Asians in America is not nearly as brutal and horrifying as the history of black people in America. It's not as sensitive. But also, look at The Hangover. The movie The Hangover. I forget the actor's name, but he makes fun of himself. Which one? Zach Galifianakis? No, no. The Asian guy. He makes fun of... He

has no penis, basically, in that movie. So, it's not like this is a new joke. I want to say, it's not like this is a new joke. I want to say, it's amazing to me how many high IQ people. Why are you looking at me? Because you're the smartest one at the table. How many high IQ people don't understand that generalizing is something that people have to be able to do from time to time. You're generalizing because otherwise you can't describe, you can't talk discreetly about every incident on planet Earth. So you generalize.

And smart people don't need the disclaimer to know that, yes, it's not 100% of the time, and there's exceptions, and it's a curve, and there's, you know, we get that. But there is a, there are generalities in this world, and, you know, it's okay to use them, I think. And also to the point that,

okay, maybe we could debate all day whether that joke was offensive, inoffensive, funny, not so funny. A, the crowd laughed. B, it should never have been leaked because it probably will never end up in a special of his, which is really what he's aiming for with all this, a special or a tour or whatever, and he's just working on his material.

Well, I mean, I imagine you could go into the Deep South and hear a comedian killing, like killing with some pretty, like, racist material. Well, I mean, I imagine you could go into the Deep South and hear a comedian killing, like, killing with some pretty, like, racist material. Sure. And it wouldn't be much of a defense to say, well, look, he was killing. Like, you know, it's still, so that, but now

I don't know if that's analogous here. I don't know if that Long Island audience can really be compared to that, but I mean, just because a particular audience is okay with something, I don't think it bootstraps it like, well, therefore it's okay. What about the second part, which is that it's just trying out stuff. Maybe he's

not up to speed on getting back into practice about what he can do and what he can't do, where the boundaries are, or maybe he just felt like doing it for this one club, he's never going to do it again. We just don't know what was on his mind for that. My feeling is that... Would you want to say something, Rebecca? Or maybe he just felt like doing it for this one club, he's never going to do it again. We just don't know what was on his mind for that. Yeah, we don't know.

My feeling is that, would you want to say something, Rebecca? I don't know. I feel like... I wish Candy came. I don't really feel like the issue is so much whether his material was offensive. I think that he's handled his, whatever this comeback situation is, pretty poorly. And I think that this is just is pretty poorly and i think that

this is just another example it sucks that that tape got leaked i completely agree but maybe given the level of scrutiny that he continually finds himself under these days he should have been a little bit more sensitive to the fact that people are going to try and make him out to be a villain and try and like twist his words and what have you. But let's also say... You know what I mean? There's a different way to handle it. He probably is a little bitter. He's probably had a really rough couple fucking years

and he's probably pissed off and all of that stuff, but that's not really for any of us to say. I have no idea where that material is going or what he was thinking when he was talking into that microphone. He could have just been riffing. Who the fuck knows? None of that could have been written down. Do you know what I'm saying?

So let's take an extreme case. Let's say he is a bad guy and his job is not to be the world's philosopher of goodness. The job is just to, he just wants to make a lot of money. Let's just take an extreme case. He could go on the road probably today and make you know 20 million dollars over the next year doing the exact same set

on the road if it's not like leaked sets so he's probably he could be thinking that way just in terms of how am I going to just get my career back

he says it on the table I lost 35 million dollars maybe he just wants to make that back and this is the way to do it and it wasn't bitcoin it was not bitcoin it was 35 million

real dollars US dollars fiat well you know I think I'm torn about whether And it wasn't Bitcoin. It was not Bitcoin. It was $35 billion. Real dollars. U.S. dollars. Fiat. Fiat currency. Well, you know, I think I'm torn about whether he's handled this badly because there is something like, there's something that I kind of understand in him saying, listen, it doesn't matter what I say, they're going to find something. They hate me.

That's correct. They're trying to villainize me. And if I can compartmentalize that, if I can live with that, not say, fuck this, I can sell out theaters and I don't need anybody, and I'm just going to go on and literally pretend it doesn't even exist. And that is the way I'm going to be serene and enjoy myself and get on with my life, not have to constantly figure, is this okay, is that okay, How are they going to take this?

How are they going to jump on and say, fuck it. I don't need a dollar from them. I don't need a single one of them to come see my show. I'm going to be myself. And I kind of think that might be good. Let me ask you, because you've seen him probably perform the most, or at least you've had him here the most out of any other club.

Has he reacted to any audience reaction that was negative? Yeah, it bothers. He plows through it. It's disconcerting to him. It is. He's not without feelings, you know. But, like, one time I was here, and you told me he was going to perform,

and I went downstairs to watch him perform. The next day, the New York Post, Post, I felt like flat out lied and said people were booing and walking out. And I was there. Everyone was laughing and having a fun time. The papers have been unbelievably dishonest every step of the way. I had that same experience here.

I saw him not that long ago. And the whole room was cracking up and then there was something in the paper the next day. Did he do multiple shows that night so that the show that you saw was not the show they were writing about? No, no, no. I remember that.

It was that show that they were writing about. Look, when we had two protesters show up, the headline was, Protesters Descend on the Comedy Cell. This is crazy talk, you know? And it was just one woman with a magic marker sign and someone else who saw her. Oh, I pay them to come here.

But know them. Have you found the old adage of any publicity is good publicity, have you found that to be true in this case? I don't know the answer to that. It's hard to quantify. It probably is true. I live in that camp as a writer. I do think that any good's hard to quantify. It probably is true. I live in that camp as a writer. I do think that any

good publicity is good publicity. Any publicity? Sure. I don't know. Because you look at like Louis C.K. is a great example where he had some publicity and he lost $35 million on it. I'm not worried about you. He's going to be fine. His kids will eat. It bears on me personally and I get paranoid.

I'm having my son Manny his well, I hope he doesn't hear, but at school, there's someone who's treating him a little coldly. And it doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense. And in the back of my mind, I'm wondering, you know, does this woman, like, one of these people who knows about his dad, nope, but this is real because I was at a birthday party once and he overheard

some of the parents whispering about me and I have had people attack me on Facebook about my kids. It's like, so that's, that's like,

that's what's creepy about all this. So, you know, it's not just about business. It's about the stuff that's affecting life. But that,

that, that's true.. That's true, but you're a public figure because you run this place. But I wasn't until this happened. I never wanted to be. But still, this is the biggest club in New York. Louis C.K.

performs here. That makes you automatically some people are going to hate you. Most people you'll hear from the vocal minority. They're the loudest people, the ones who hate you. The 99% that either don't give a shit or like you, you don't hear from them. They are normal people doing normal things. And then the minority, they're like the type of people who leave comments on YouTube videos.

But I'll tell you this, just going through it a little bit, like gives me a sympathy for Lou Louis, what he's going through. Despite whether he deserves it, whatever you think about what he did. People really have no concept. I have the slightest concept of what it means to become a public pariah and to be attacked. Some of the people who work for me, waitresses, have been on the subway with their Comedy Cellar t-shirts and they've been accosted on the subway. How could you work for that sexist blah, blah, blah, blah? And they're like, oh, you know, they don't even know what to say.

But I think that's a societal thing. Like, why is everyone so angry these days that waitresses are being accosted on subways? I don't know. I mean, I think people like to have something to get like riled up about. Like, it's bullshit. There's no accountability whatsoever. It's like you can say whatever you want because you're saying it from like Twitter or Facebook or Instagram.

And then like you get to be outraged and then you just move on to the next thing. Like nobody's actually doing anything. They're just like. Well, but no one was saying they're non-anonymous. You know. That's different though what he's talking about. Most of what I've done has not been anonymous. So what are the other hot topics in comedy clubs?

I had a question for these two comedy club owners about what is the perception, I don't know if you, of the comedy seller. Is there any resentment? Like, how the fuck does this guy sell out? I mean, because no one, let's be honest about it, the comedy seller is dominant in a pretty

spectacular way right now. Yeah, without question. You know, I mean, it is... It's the golden chalice. It's the best club in the city. It's the best club on the East Coast. It's the best club in America. I wish you wouldn't talk about that, but go ahead. It is like Amy Schumer versus the rest of us, you know, in the comedy club world. But it's different.

I don't feel like we compare ourselves. Do you really feel like Amy Schumer is your number one competitor? No, in terms of like the, I don't feel she's a competitor at all. I feel like we're both comics. I use Amy Schumer. I don't mean Amy Schumer. I mean, the relatively few comics that make $20 million a year, and the rest of us that are scraping by,

the disparity is vast, whether you feel it's deserved or undeserved. I'm just making a comparison between the seller and the other clubs right now, and Noam doesn't want me to talk about this, but it's... Because I can imagine... First of all, it is what it is, whatever it is. You could probably just be chalked up to location, location, location. But whatever it is. I'm not saying you're a genius.

I don't want to bring people. Just go ahead. Well, I think it's interesting. No, I agree. So how are you perceiving that? Do you think yourself that fucking doorman is selling shows? Or are you like, I'm happy for him and I do what I do? Well, I asked Noam this on my podcast.

Look at the foot traffic outside versus the foot traffic on the middle of the block on 78th Street in the Upper West Side. So there is something to be said for a location. And then you had reputational stuff like the show Louie, which was an excellent show. It was the comedy sellers, you know, the main club. People take pictures like that's the comedy seller. Like they take pictures outside. They don't even come in sometimes. It's a famous place.

You dream of taking Noam down is the point I'm trying to make. No, no, there's no point in that. I like the Comedy Cellar far away from stand-up New York. Rebecca Trent, you say what? I love Noam. I love this club. There's no comparison to what I do and what he does. It's just not the same thing.

Can we talk about William Stevenson? Yes, please. Okay, so who would like to run that down? Well, the comedy cellar has lost a very integral part of, and the comedy world, has lost a very integral part of our community,

William Stevenson, who if you've been to the comedy cellar, you've almost surely seen him because he's been emceeing here regularly for literally decades now. And he died suddenly just over the weekend. And so, you know, we, it's a big, I must say for me, there's been a lot of death in the

comedy world over the past, you know, decade or so. For me, this one is more painful than most of them because I've worked with him so often and he's probably brought me on stage conservatively 200 times, which isn't even that much compared to other comics, I imagine. So it's just going to be very different

from me. The comedy seller experience is forever changed as a result. So, you know, that's what I have to say about that. I would agree completely. I'm going to miss him terribly. William was also my poker buddy, and he's one of the things that, I mean, he loved comedy, obviously,

but playing poker was probably his second favorite thing, or third favorite thing to do in the world. And he was a really great player and we had our last game with him last Tuesday. Obviously, everybody was terribly shocked by everything. Are you guys going to do

some sort of tribute for him or put something up on the wall? Have you guys talked about that yet? We have something up on the website and I think that we talked about something on? We have something up on the website, and I think that... We talked about something on a plaque, and we also... Eddie Brill, I think... Started the GoFundMe?

No, wants to do an event here on Saturday. This Saturday or next Saturday afternoon. I guess the details will come out when it's finalized. Awesome. Did you know him at all, James? I've only seen him on the stage here, so it's been very fascinating to hear on the stage here, so it's been very fascinating to hear all the stories

and obviously it's very sad, but I didn't know him. He was only 61. It's just so fucking shocking. Now, you played poker with him, and so you have an actual friendship with him. I had a prickly relationship with him. He has a prickly pear. No, but

I always felt like to him, I was the Jewish club owner in Mo' Better Blues, you know, the Spike Lee movie. And I felt like I'd never get past that with him. Because I had a whole history with him in the Cafe Wow on a music night he used to host. So in the early 90s, we started this funk night, which actually started a whole funk revival throughout the country.

It became very, very famous. Madonna was coming down, and Mike Tyson, all the A-list celebrities at the time were sold out literally five weeks in advance. It was very, very famous. William was the MC and a huge part of it. We were fighting

all the time. It was just constant fighting. We never, ever had a smooth relationship. Last conversation I had with him is he wanted a raise and I raised the MC pay. So he got

his last licks in because we're so stuck with that rate of pay. You're stuck with the pay. So I am, I joke, so of course it's difficult when somebody that's part of the fabric of your life dies. Sure. But not every death affects everybody

The same. The same as it shouldn't because otherwise Otherwise nobody's special. Yeah, otherwise nobody's special, exactly. And when I read the Facebook posts, I can't help but my mind being like, do these people really all feel as deeply as they say?

All the posts about how he's the nicest guy, the kindest guy. That was blowing my mind. I read so many posts. What are we going to say when Ryan Hamilton dies? Right? That bastard. I thought that was insane. I mean, I refer to him as grumpy and irascible.

Ted Alexandro put up a really good heartfelt. I know J.R. Havlin, they were besties. I just put up a I'm gonna miss you buddy and was wearing the William shirt. Some of those tributes were really beautiful and heartfelt.

Literally people stopped and went online and went, I never knew you, I'm sorry you're gone. It's like, why are you wasting? I think when anybody dies, the social media has created this sort of race to be the grieving widow. And everybody wants the attention and the sorry for your losses,

and everybody wants to make it about them. Many people are sincere. Ted Alexandro always has nice things to say in these times. Some people just want attention for themselves. Some people want both. I think we all maybe get a, you know, anything I post on Facebook is designed, at least in part, to bring attention to me. I'm not going to say it's completely because I want to bestow wisdom. I felt a lot of pressure on me to post something on Facebook about him, and I didn't.

Because I said, I don't want to succumb to that pressure. I waited a day because I'm not as close with him as so many other people were. And we put up on the marquee at the Creek. I saw that. It was very nice. It has his name on it. And we'll leave it up there for the week. No, but what did it say?

It was nice. It was Rest in Funk and Annie Up, William Stevenson. Yeah, I thought that was great. Did you write that? Yeah. That was great. Who came up with Rest in Funk?

Because I've heard a lot of people say Rest in Funk. Dean Edwards wrote Rest in Funk on his Instagram feed. I don't know. I think everybody just sort of put together that he loved funk music so much. He loved it. And that's what people refer to him, you know. And he was very musically talented.

Oh, yeah. He really was. He was a special guy, you know. Yeah, he was. And he was a great speller, by the way. I didn't know that. Right before we went on air, I told her how terrible I am at spelling. William was a great speller.

Yeah, it was one of his talents. And then, you know, whenever anybody dies, I think you can't help but you think about your own mortality. I think that's a big part of the reservoir of grief is that you just start thinking about when you're going to die yourself. And one of the things I always think about, and I

said it when people asked me about Highfeller, I said I'm very sad about William. And I think I'm a little bit sadder than he would be if the roles were reversed. And I believe that. And I believe he would be sad if I died. I know he would have been.

And I think I'm even sadder for him. I think that's accurate. I would guess, if I had to guess. You know, just a couple of months ago, Marina had said to William, hey, you know, you should take care of yourself. You know, just a couple of months ago, Marina had said to William, hey, you know, you should take care of yourself, you know, I mean, your health, you know. And he said something to the effect of,

hey, when it's your time, it's your time. See, that's very sad. But he was all, you know, the couple of times that this kind of stuff came up, and I also remember one time he mentioned that he never thought he'd live as long as he had already lived into his 60s. So I don't think time he mentioned that he never thought he'd live as long as he had already lived, into his 60s. So I don't think

that he had any fear of death, and I don't think that he would have felt that he got robbed in any way. I think if he could say anything to us, it would probably be hey, it's cool, man. You know, I got my 61 years in and I had a good time. See, if it were the Howard Stern show,

they would actually have a William Stevenson character. But, you know, without trying to get too dramatic, I really do think that that's what he would say. I don't know. There was something else I heard. Esty was telling me this. In the last three or four months, he seemed to have a new optimistic, positive vibe about him.

And I remember on New Year's Eve, he came in really dressed beautifully which was not like a three-piece suit, which was not like him. And he's been like lately been, hey, how you doing? And bye. So I don't know if that coincidence, that plays into it in any way. All that positivity bullshit.

Toxic positivity. Toxic positivity. I think he had a sense that he was the sense that I got is that a sense that he was the sense that I got is that he thought that he was living on borrowed time and that

that you know he wasn't going to go on you know forever forever because he explicitly said I didn't think you know

I didn't think I'd go this far and people don't take listen you know she and I Perrielle and I this is just coming to my mind now I hope I don't take it. Listen, she and I, Perrielle and I, this is just coming to my mind now. I hope I don't step in it, but we were

talking about this statistic of... Foreshadowing. Of how infant mortality is much... whatever. I'm going to step in it. Point is this. I'm so ready. Comedians don't take care of themselves.

I'm not even going to step. That's an interesting topic, and I think you're right. I don't work in any other businesses, so I don't know what the mortality rate is, but it seems to me that there's just been an awful lot of comedians dying over the past years, as I've mentioned.

Patrice and Todd Lynn and William as opposed to Geraldo who was on drugs or whatever it is. These were three kids. They really weren't taking care of themselves. That's a very

sad aspect of this lifestyle. They were all three black and I don't know if that's just a statistical noise or there's something about the black experience which makes that more likely or they're more likely to have health problems. I have no idea, but I am struck by, you can't help it, anybody who, I don't know, the world pretends they don't think this way,

but I am struck by the fact that three black comedians dropped dead very, very young in the last, you know, number of years. I told you that. Yeah, so what did you tell me? Put it in your mouth. Go ahead. That the health care that is available to black Americans is abysmal. Right, I know that. But these are people who were not taking care of themselves.

That factors into it, too. I wonder, were these touring comedians? Because I imagine, like, when you go on tour, there's a lot more physical pressure on you. Physical toll gets taken on you for travel and all that, too. You've got to have energy to stay in shape. Well, Patrice toured. Patrice had diabetes. And I don't know the details of Patrice's life so much,

but he also had money. He wasn't... He had access to health care. Like I said, I don't know the details of all of it. It's just sad to see. And when you see somebody who's just not taking care of themselves,

you don't know what to make of that. Well, a lot of us are single, and we don't have women around. Is that an advertisement? No, but he's making a point. They don't have a family to take care of themselves for. A lot of them are single. They travel alone.

They have access to gas station food most of the time. It's not quite the romantic private jet lifestyle. And there's a lot of mental illness. There's a lot of depression. Self-medicating. A lot of just... But William, don't... This is really taking a dark turn

you guys we're all gonna die dying what did you expect but William William was I mean William smoked weed

but he was not he never drank he wasn't he wasn't self-medicating as far as I know well I'm just talking about comics in general I wasn't talking about William

there is a higher death rate amongst comics I think there's a lot of explanations a lot of places we can go to find the explanation I think you can also find a lot of comics who work out regularly, right?

I'm sure you know plenty. Sure. So I don't know. That's an addiction, too. That can make your heart explode, too. Most of them work out. You're right. I mean, Sebastian Maniscalco sold out Radio City Music Hall this week, right?

So that guy in his book talks about working out all the time. You can see it. Yeah, he's ripped. He never comes here. He's represented by Levity and they're involved with Gotham. So I think he spends most of his time there. That's a conspiracy.

It is a conspiracy. Other people represented by Levity will come in here. But no, he's never been here as far as I know. And I wish he would. He's terrific. He's really good. He's's terrific he's amazing what else what else so what are the other

topics in comedy in comedy club world in the comedy club I don't know how are things going at stand up New York I mean you come here

we talk about Louis but we haven't heard much about he's performing every night at stand up New York every night you're on no no are you killing

I don't want to say one way or the other I have to ask someone who sees me but I go up maybe every night at Sandham New York. Every night you're on? No, no. Are you killing? I don't want to say one way or the other. I have to ask someone who sees me. But I go up maybe between three and six times a week. So it's not like I'm going up seven times a night. Do they pay you spot pay when you go up? No, I don't take any pay, which is probably why they like putting me up. Who knows?

But I have a fun time, and hopefully the audience has a fun time as well. Are you writing like every day? I write every day. I videotape myself every time. I watch the video over and over. I watch the videos of other comedians. I take it seriously.

Have you seen your dad perform stand-up comedy? You're welcome to come on the mic. On a scale of 1 to 10. You can come on the mic if you'd like. She's a theater major so she's used to speaking in public. On a scale of 1 to 10. You can come on the mic if you'd like. You can tell the truth. She's a theater major, so she's used to speaking in public. On a scale of 1 to Chris Rock. Do you want to come on the mic? Come on, give us a rundown of your dad's stand-up.

This is Molly Altucher. Is that your name? Josie. And I make fun of her quite a bit in my act. Josie, that's what I want. When my wife, our last child, when we thought it might be a girl, I wanted to name her Josie. What's your, how old are you? I'm 19.

And you're in college? Yeah. Where are you going to college? Dickinson College. Dickinson College. She's going to college against my will. Like, I did not want her to go to college. She's rebelling against me by going to college.

Are you paying for it? That's hilarious. I am paying for it, yeah. Because I didn't want her to... I didn't want to be a sore point in therapy 20 years from now for her, so... Well, if you can afford it, it's a fun time. She's having fun, I'm sure.

And going to parties and doing what college students do. I didn't do those things in college. I was a bit of a lone wolf, not by my own... you know, not by choice, but I'm sure you're having fun. Yes. So tell us about your dad's stand-up comedy. Does he talk about his kids at all in his act?

Sometimes, sometimes. He doesn't talk too much about my little sister or nothing. Sometimes me. He knows I'm... She can take it. Josie can take it. I can do it. Molly would cry.

He does well. It depends on the night, on the crowd. There's a lot of, I feel like, variables that every comedian faces. Have you ever seen him bomb? I've seen audience members get a little iffy with some topics. Like what topic? I think it was his Hitler joke. I have a couple Hitler jokes.

Everybody's got to have a Hitler joke. Everybody has a Hitler joke. I have a couple Hitler jokes. Everybody's got to have a Hitler joke. Everybody has a Hitler joke. Hitler is sort of a sub-genre in stand-up comedy, and most of us have a Hitler joke. I have one myself. What's yours, Dan? Mine was when Hitler was born, everybody said, It's a boy!

And a girl probably would have been better. In retrospect. In retrospect. And also, another thing I said was when they named him Adolf and all the neighbors said, oh, Adolf, that's a name that is evergreen. It will never go out of style. That's funny.

I thought it was funny, but didn't get a huge response here at the table. But in any case, Hitler is a big genre and Nazis in general how could it not be obviously

how do you explain your dad buying a club and going what does that feel like I usually don't explain it I avoid it it's cool she's so nice and normal. She reminds me of Marilyn Munster.

Like the totally normal, untouched one. I know. I can't believe it. Were you the main person in her life growing up, or was that the baby's mama? Yeah. I mean, I see her a lot, but her mother and I are divorced, and her mother has raised her into a nice young little adult. How old were you when they were divorced?

Like nine. That's a tough age. That's a tough age. I was five, I think, when my parents separated. I was 30. You were 30? I was.

So anyway, did you come up with a number? Your dad is a? Oh, I'd say a solid. He's around a seven or eight. Wow. There you go. Maybe she's going to start performing here.

I make her laugh. I don't consider it a good evening. Are you going to send Noma tape? We use some solid sixes from time to time. I'll send Noma tape when I feel like I'm ready for it. I accurately, I don't want to push myself, but I don't consider it a good set unless I make Josie laugh.

Whenever she comes, she's the only one in the audience for me. What if Josie's laughing and the rest of the crowd is like, get off! I don't care about that. Now, Rebecca's quite funny on Facebook. Do you ever think of going on? Have you done it on time? Sometimes for the roasts, I'll go on the dais,

and I'll do the actual roasts. You will? But that's it. And you write your own material and do it? Yeah, because I feel like I have to let myself be there to get made fun of if we're going to have a roast of somebody that they need to make. I need to be fair game inside of that. So I used to, but we haven't done a roast in quite some time.

You could not get me on stage to do a minute of stand-up comedy. I would die. It's nerve-wracking. You know, it's funny because I went to a Q&A session about The Marvelous Mrs. Mizell and Rachel Brosnahan was there. And so as they were leaving, I said to her, hey, if you ever want to

do stand-up at Stand Up New York, stop by. And she said, and she's playing a comedian, she says, oh no, I would never. I'd be too terrified to do stand-up. Stand Up New York, stop by. And she said, and she's playing a comedian, she says, oh, no, I would never. I'd be too terrified to do stand-up. So it's a special. Yeah. And I still get terrified. Just last night I was performing for 700 insurance people

at a conference in Arizona. That's terrifying by itself. I cannot imagine that. And it's particularly horrifying because these corporate audiences, you know, doing a private show for a corporation, they're not comedy fans, and they're not necessarily there for a comedy show.

They're there for a conference. They do want to laugh, though. Some of them don't. Some of them may not. And in that environment, it gets touchy because, you know, it's always, you always got to be cleaner and more politically correct for a corporate audience.

It's tricky, but it pays well, so I do them. And because on balance, I prefer to do them than to do a whole weekend at a club for less money. Have you ever done a corporate event where you totally bombed, like nobody laughed for like 40 minutes? No, I don't think. But you still get the check at the end anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

It does matter because your self-esteem... It hurts your soul. Comedians, generally speaking, are only as happy as their last set went. Sure. And that's certainly the case with me. So I'll take the check and I'll cash it, but it will... It'll hurt. It hurts and it feels horrible and you feel like, what am I doing?

And so your self-esteem takes a wallop when that happens. But in terms of the level of bombing you're describing, no. That hasn't knock on wood. We have some wood here. Yes, I am that superstitious. Knock on wood. It hasn't happened yet. We don't have much more time.

Do you want to just quickly talk about the Gillette? I don't know about the Gillette thing. I didn't watch it. I mean, I've heard about it. Well, Gillette had a commercial where they're talking about how men need to behave better. And when men don't behave, other men need to step up. I don't know what this has to do with shaving, by the way. But this is a new thing.

Neither did anybody else. I think that was part of the problem. So anyway, it's basically saying men should call out other men that don't treat women with respect. I agree with that. Well, it's certainly not uncontroversial. However, there's two issues that people seem to have a problem with from what I have gathered. Number one is basically exaggerating the extent to which men are assholes.

And number two, all the men that were, I think all the men, I have to rewatch, according to Ann Coulter, and I'm not saying that's a God, stop! I'm not saying that's a great source. Did you just make a masturbation? I did. Sorry. I haven't actually seen the commercial

that all the men, all the people that were being rude to women were white men and all the So maybe white men are the problem too. But also they were all tall and all the kind of beta males in the commercial were small. So it was kind of a tallism aspect too.

I gotta see this commercial. I don't know if that's the case. That is the case. I didn't see the commercial. But you do have a problem with white men though. Do I? Shouldn't everybody? No. No. I don't know

They're kind of problematic As opposed to which men? Not as opposed to anything Then why white? Because they're the ones who are most powerful Are they? Yeah, they are, of course they are Are they the ones committing most of the murders?

Has anybody looked at statistics? I think numbers-wise, you could probably say it's definitely on the white guy's side as far as history. The most people being killed, probably white guys win

if it's going to be broken down by race. I mean, slavery, hello? Okay, but you're... Are you saying that people today that are the same color are somebody who did something bad? I always started that. This is an ongoing.

This is because I thought that certain concepts were beyond even arguing about anymore in 2019. One of them I would think would just be done with already is that the idea that because you're the same color as somebody who lived in history that did something, this is somehow relevant to you and how I can judge you or I can talk about you. That is so absolutely absurd. A nursery school child could be explained that and they'd be like, yeah, of course. Yet, people will still bring up, like they did it with Mount Louis, like they will attack me because I'm white and they would say, why are you attacking me because I'm white? How about slavery?

Don't twist my words. That's not what I said. That's the logic. Never mind. No, that's not what I said. Never mind that even if we were to use that logic, but I'm Jewish, so... But that's not the logic I'm using. Anyway, whatever. But what is the logic? We're talking about sexual

misconduct. White men are more responsible for it. White men are probably the worst because of slavery. We brought slavery into it, so it's got to be relevant. No, no, no. You said who has committed most of the murders. You said they have the most power. I said, do they commit most of the murders?

Do you believe that per capita they're committing? I don't know. That's the thing. It's possible to generalize, but if you try to slice the statistics... We're wrapping it all around now. There's other ways to slice the statistics. But we know pretty much to the contrary

that in ethnic communities, you think that women are elevated in Chinatown, like immigrants from Asia, or when they come directly from the countries where they still have honor killings, you think once they hit the shores here, they're treating those women like golden. You notice that?

I mean, what the hell kind of, I guess it's bigotry, have you adopted that you actually think that white men are somehow particularly bad to women as opposed to black men? I didn't say that they were particularly bad to women. Then why bring up the fact that they're white? Why not just say men? Because there is a system in place.

You don't know because you're not even really going to have the conversation with me. You already made your decision. Because it's ridiculous. It's not ridiculous at all. It's ridiculous to bring up that point. I don't think it is. When you want to talk about anything under the sun. That's not true.

There's a history. Let's talk about bad bank loans. Let's talk about car salesmen that induce people with lies about the Simonizing. It's not a real conversation. It's mostly white men, isn't it? You can bring it into anything. I will say that Gillette

is a good product. Getting back to Gillette I myself use the sensor By the way, the ad was a great ad Why was it a good ad? Because it makes you Does it make me want to buy a Gillette razor? No, it's exploitative In every possible way that advertisers should do

And they did their job They make you kind of feel an emotion at the end And look, here we are talking about it. Everybody's talking about it. Which is a job for the ad agency. But yes, I suppose so. But it's been a conversation across the news and social media, this ad.

The meta conversation about the ad has been happening, and so that's their job. Question, were you raised to not cry? Was I raised? No. Don't cry, be a man. I was never told to not cry. Were you raised to not cry. Was I raised? No. Don't cry. I was never told to not cry. Were you raised to not cry?

No. No. I wasn't either. I read about this as like, oh, men are always told as kids never to cry and be tough. I'm sure some people are, but I don't. My father definitely treated my brother that way. I feel like that's also a Jewish thing, though. I don't know if you're Jewish, James, or not.

There you go again. Well, you know damn well. You know damn well that he's Jewish. Jews cry. I really do. I think that if you want to make generalizations, cultural generalizations, I don't think that that's true of Jews. I don't think Jewish parents tell their kids, you have to be tough. Like, that's not really our thing.

No, you know what my father would tell me? You fight back with your words. Exactly. It's the worst advice I ever got. So let me ask you then. So do you believe in the concept that toxic masculinity is bad for, is hurting men? What does toxic masculinity mean? Of course I do.

What does it mean? So therefore, I guess, you believe that Jews... So you don't believe that the way they're raised is causing the toxic masculinity, because then you would have to believe that Jews have less of it. Jews have less toxic masculinity. Is that a question? I feel like a trap is being set here. The question is, do you think the way men are being raised is leading to that toxic masculinity?

I think that that's certainly probably part of it, yes. So then Jews ought to have less than others, because they're not being raised is leading to that toxic masculinity. I think that that's certainly probably part of it, yeah. So then Jews ought to have less than others because they're not being raised that way. Do Jews have less toxic masculinity than others? See, you're also an attorney, which nobody sort of said. I'm curious, what is

toxic? I do actually a little bit. I do think that there might be a little bit less Jewish toxic masculinity in Jewish guys. But there's a lot of good masculinity. Sure. Well, there's any masculinity in Jewish guys. But that's fine. Nobody's saying that's not true.

What about toxic annoyingness? What's toxic femininity? Is there such a thing? Of course there is. So what's that? Rebecca said we had this conversation earlier. It's those pink fucking pussy hats. That's toxic femininity. Really? I think it's chicks that walk

around with dogs in their purses. That too. Agreed. I'm with you. That too. That's not toxic femininity. What is toxic femininity? What does the word toxic and toxic masculinity mean? It means it's toxic for society. It's bad for society. It's bad for society.

It's bad for everyone. I don't know what it means. Really? Yeah, I don't know. I don't really know what it means because... I mean, can you put the concept into words? There's all types of people in every race, color, gender. So you're sure there's bad people in every scenario.

No, but it's not that. I think that it is some internalized thing that we teach little boys, starting when they're little boys, that they have to be a certain way. The goyim teach them. Not the Jews. Don't do that. Not the Jews. Not the Jews.

And they teach men that they have to be tough, and they're not allowed to feel things, and they're not allowed to cry. I heard a woman who... And everything that's feminine is faggy. That's right. And it winds up being really detrimental to both the man himself

and then how he relates to other people and also women. Other people and also women. But, you know, look at Hollywood where kind of this Me Too movement started and a lot of the first Me Too accusations were made against Jews. Were they, did they have toxic masculinity or was it casting couch masculinity? Like, that's why I don't really understand the phrase.

I feel there's too much nuance in it. Well, Noam told me in the beginning that anybody can understand that with the generalization, there's always like dips and exceptions. So it doesn't mean that Jewish men I mean I would say that Harvey Weinstein is a prime example of somebody who suffers from toxic masculinity. So it doesn't mean that Jews can't have

it but I think that culturally. I'm not saying he's a good guy. I just think. No, no. I didn't think that you were. It's just hard to understand the phrase. Because like then again what's toxic femininity? We couldn't even agree on that. But we didn't even get there yet. Don't we also have the feeling somehow that if Harvey Weinstein looked like Brad Pitt, he wouldn't have been doing this stuff.

It's kind of like the absence of real... So the problem is that Harvey wasn't hot? Well, that he was... Yeah, that he's like an ugly, frumpy old Jewish guy. How dare you think you could stick that in me? No, no, no. Like Chris Rock had that whole routine during the Clarence Thomas thing where if Clarence Thomas looked like Denzel Washington, Anita Hill would be like, oh, Denzel. I mean, that's very funny.

But the truth is that there are a lot of really good lookinglooking guys who do horrible things, right? I don't think that... But the Harvey Weinstein thing was like... I mean, I don't know. I don't know. It just seems to... Sometimes a person's behavior does seem to fit with their outward appearance.

There's something about the Weinstein stories, and then you look at that picture, and you've never seen it. Of course. And you don't say, like, I can't believe he looked... I never pictured him to look like that. But it kind of looks like what, now that may not be fair.

No, no, you're right. That's true. I think the danger though is generalizing and saying all people, let's say raised a certain way, we should not listen to them as much because they might be toxic. But you guys mentioned, oh, people raised in this type of atmosphere, don't cry, be tough, this, that. I don't know if that's toxic or not. That might not be toxic.

I think any time that you're shutting down a kid emotionally, it's toxic. I don't think you should do that in general. Who here hasn't really been shut down emotionally? All of us have been, but that's not the point. The point is that... No one has never been shut down. You've never been emotionally shut down?

Ever? Jewish mother. I was shut down. That must have been nice. I don't recall being shut down ever Jewish mother I was shut down that must have been nice I don't recall being shut down emotionally I was once shut down in mid masturbation

blue balls is a real thing my father said put that away don't do that that's very toxic in public don't do that at the dinner table

we're at church I wasn't in public I was in the car you know when your little kid your father goes alright I gotta go I'll do errands

you wait in the car I don't know if kids still wait in the car no You can't do that anymore. Kids still wait in the car. No, it's highly illegal now. You're not allowed to do that. Especially with the windows up. Well, I was waiting in the car

and whilst waiting. How old? You know, in the years before. Five, he said. 23. No, in the years before. I don't remember how old. Before 10 years old.

And in the days before, you know, you could go on your cell phone. What else is there to do but masturbate? You were masturbating before younger than 10. I wasn't masturbating in the classical sense. For know, you could go on your cell phone, what else is there to do but masturbate? You were masturbating before younger than 10. I wasn't masturbating in the classical sense.

For the Julie Bloom book. I wasn't masturbating in the classical sense. Just diddling a little. Of the stroke motion that we all do. You know, the piston motion. I wasn't doing that. I was just touch diddling. Diddling is a better word.

Yeah, little kids do that. And my father came and he said, put that away, don't do that. In a very abrupt manner. I don't know what the best way to handle that would have been and how I would have handled that. I probably would have pretended I didn't see because I would have put it in just seeing him. And you remembered it.

How many other memories can you come up with off the top of your head from that particular year of your life? I mean, it stayed one of the most, it stayed with you. Well, it did stay. Well, yeah, it did stay with me. It's interesting.

It's how we learned not to touch it in public. But again, I wasn't in public. I was in a car. Did we talk about therapy last week? I feel that would be

a great therapy topic. Yeah. Because I had a theory. Well, I just, but I think especially for a man of his generation, he handled it about as well as anybody

that was born in the 1930s would have handled it. Now, nowadays, you might say, son, it's okay. There's good touch and bad. And it's your body. That's right. That's exactly what you say now. I think somebody would have done it differently growing up. You're right.

But he grew up in the 30s. What do they know? But don't you think all these gender generalizations, the trend in general has been upwards in the past decades? Like he mentions a man born in his 30s versus a person born now. And I feel that's true for every trend. I was thinking about this. This is related to the McGarrett goal. I was thinking, and maybe you can come up with some other examples.

I was trying to think of a profession that I could literally put on the outfit of that profession, go to work at, did I talk to this about you? Yes. Go to work as that professional. And the customer client would never know I could do the job for 10 years. Like, I couldn't go to fix somebody's toilet and get away with it. They would know right away I'm not a plumber or a surgeon or whatever it is. I could step into any therapy office and say, hello, I'm Dr. Dwarman.

They will go to me for 10 years. They'll never have any fucking idea I'm not a therapist. I think you're absolutely correct. It is the most bullshit profession. This is so ridiculous. I don't know that that makes it a bullshit profession, but I think you're correct. Nobody would know. A bullshit may be an exaggeration.

You could really sit there for an hour and listen to person after person go on about their... That's not my point. My point is they would... I would say, oh, really? They wouldn't know.

How does that make you feel? Or I might even have insight. Just have you thought about this? Oh, my God, Dr. Dorman, you're so smart. Dr. Dorman. I mean, like, they would... Now, maybe, like, cognitive behavioral therapy is different.

I'm no expert on therapy, but, like, the basic, like, therapy, like, I'm sure that the process of talking about your problems is good for you. It is. Yeah. So, the patient is helped, no matter who the therapist is. But the question is, are there therapists out there that really have a science, like they've learned something? I think there are. And what have they learned?

But you've even come away from our last conversation because last time you said it wasn't measurable. Like you couldn't really tell if it helped. Yes. That's what I'm saying. You can't measure it. Have you seen Chris Gethard's career suicide? Yes. No. He talks about how shitty his therapist is

throughout the entire special, and you're ringing a lot of bells that are similar to what he was talking about. It's absolutely great. You'd love it. I have a friend who has become a good friend who is a therapist. God forbid they ever hear this thing.

We're sending it to them. Obviously, if you're helping parents raise children, you might have insight into panacea. There are. I'm just talking about the comedian. There's a therapist that all the comedians go to.

And his wife. His wife also sees a lot of comics. Here's how it helps. I view them almost as statisticians. Let's say you're going through a divorce and you have to explain to your kids this is what's happening. You go to a therapist.

You've seen this situation a thousand times. What tends to work? What tends to not work? How should we talk to our kids about this? So that tends to be... Therapists usually have a good sense of how to piece together the thousand situations they've seen and give pretty good advice on that. I would go with that except for the fact that I know

that ten different therapists will have ten different opinions. There's very few... I think that's because there's a lot of bad therapists. There are some good therapists that have... How do you know the good ones? If you feel better. Trial and error. If you feel better.

If you feel better. I mean, it is a mysterious profession. But yeah, I'll accept it. It's like carpe. I think you're right that the patient wouldn't necessarily know right away that you're a fraud. But that doesn't mean that the profession is a fraud. No, I'm saying the patient would think that they feel better after they spoke to me. You're giving yourself a lot of credit, Dr. Dorman.

Is there a way to try this ethically? No, there is not. You could be like a life coach. Actually ethically? No, there is not. You can be like a life coach. Actually, yeah, that's what those are. Fake therapists or life coaches. I want to do a commissioned study where people sign and they don't know placebo and real and it's a treatment.

But it would still all be anecdotal anyway. But how would you measure success? You can't measure it by whether they feel good or not. Maybe you have to measure it by their health. Maybe you have to measure it by their health. Maybe you have to measure it by their career success. There's different metrics other than happiness for a therapist. Psychiatry, by the way, I'm not including. Change behavior is also what is indicative of if you're going to a good therapist.

Are you able to change the behavior? He's still masturbating. I will say this, yes, but in private. And I will say this. Not in cars anymore. And he's not here. Not in the backseat of a car anymore. He's not here, but Dov Davidoff went from the ultimate booty hound,

and unfortunately he's not here. I think he's away on, he was in the Seychelles doing a gig for some Arab sheik anyway. Amazing. I'm sure he's not booty hounding us. I have never seen a change in behavior like Dove David in my entire life who went from the ultimate booty hound to a monogamous, and I do believe he is being monogamous, husband and father. And he credits therapy at least in part with that transition. And perhaps we can talk

with him about that. Oh, that would be a great topic. Okay, we have to wrap it up. Well, you know, we had,

maybe we could still do it. We had envisioned like a real, like getting all the club owners to really like hash it out about comedy club owning and stuff, but maybe we could do that again.

By the way, I'm sure we'll come back, right James? Is the minimum wage impacting you? Oh, fuck yeah. It is. Oh yeah. Because you have a whole restaurant and everything. That's a whole'll come back, right, James? Is the minimum wage impacting you? Oh, fuck yeah. It is.

Oh, yeah. Because you have a whole restaurant and everything. That's a whole issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not so much you, right? No. No.

He doesn't have as many employees. And he's rich. No, but I still want the comedy clubs to be profitable. I want to make more money. Yeah, sure. But I have, yeah, it's a big change.

It's a big change. It's a big change. I don't, I honestly, and I know every time I come on this podcast, I say it, but I have no idea how we're going to weather the storm. It's literally a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Well, let me just tell you, when you say that, I always take you seriously, because I remember growing up 15 consecutive years of living like that. So it's absolutely... And the creek is going to have its bat mitzvah in August. Well, I think it's about time to, uh, to wrap this up.

We do thank, uh, all of our guests, Mr. James. Okay. Hold on. This is actually my,

my, uh, 20 month old baby. First phone call to me. Good night, everybody. Put her on speaker. Put him on speaker.

Hey, hello. Uh, thank you, James. Thank you, Rebecca. Thank you, James. Thank you, Rebecca Trent. Thank you, Dan. Thank you.

It was nice to meet you. It was really nice to meet you guys. And it was good to do this again, James. And Josie, of course, Josie Altucher, as far as I know. Your first radio credit. Fabulous. And we'll see you next time. I know how to start an argument with anyone.

And I don't need but two words. What's wrong? I would get married tomorrow if I could marry a police detective. Just so I can hear the phrase we can either do this here or we can do this downtown. There's a lot of shit going on down there.

My last girlfriend and I broke up because she's from Jamaica and does not smoke marijuana. And that is the end of that joke. I touched myself quite a bit. I touched myself like it's my job and I'm bucking for a raise, all right? I installed a bounty paper towel rack on the wall next to my bed, all right? I don't think I can paint this picture any clearer. If you don't know me by now,

you will never know me. And another hand for Mr. William Stevenson. William Stevenson, let him know that you love and cherish him.