The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Resistance Psychologist Says Trump Won’t Finish His Term — "The Dementia Cliff Is Coming"

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

An Explosive Debate on Trump’s Brain. Dr. John Gartner, former Johns Hopkins psychiatry faculty member and a vocal critic of Donald Trump, joins Live From the Table. We challenge Gartner directly on his claims that Donald Trump is exhibiting malignant narcissism, psychopathy, and accelerating dementia. The debate spans science, politics, ethics, medical bias, and the media’s treatment of both Trump and Biden. This episode includes extended transcript-verified clips, counter-arguments, and some of the most heated exchanges we’ve aired. Chapters below. Chapters 00:00 – Intro: Who is Dr. John Gartner? 01:00 – Goldwater Rule & Diagnosing Public Figures 03:20 – Trump, Narcissism & Malignant Personality Disorders 07:00 – Is Trump a Psychopath? Criminality, Lying & Abuse 11:20 – Noam Pushes Back: What Counts as Evidence? 14:15 – The Dementia Question: Language, Gait & Decline 16:55 – “He’s Not the Same Man”: Claims From Former Officials 18:45 – Noam’s Counterargument: Bolton, Kelly, McMaster, Woodward 22:30 – Cognitive Decline vs. Strategy: What’s Real? 26:05 – Trump’s Speeches Examined: Word Salad or Something Else? 29:30 – The “Skedaddle” Story & Loose Associations 33:00 – Kamala Harris, Biden & Claims of Asymmetrical Scrutiny 37:10 – Debate Clips: Biden Then vs. Now, Trump Then vs. Now 41:50 – Variability & Sundowning: How Dementia Presents 45:00 – Trump’s Stamina vs. Trump’s Disorganization 48:20 – Is This Cognitive Decline or Just Aging? 52:00 – Impulsivity, National Security & Dangerous Decision-Making 56:10 – The Hakeem Jeffries “Very Nice Man” Story 59:00 – Biden Wandering Clips & Why the Medical Community Stayed Silent 1:02:00 – Is Medical Bias Real? Noam Pushes Gartner 1:04:00 – Would Trump’s Inner Circle Have Noticed Decline? 1:07:00 – Narcissism, Children & Why His Family Keeps Distance 1:10:00 – “Do You Feel Sympathy for Him?” 1:14:00 – Closing Thoughts & Invitation to Visit the Cellar

uh all right we're rolling this is live from the table the official podcast of the world famous comedy seller available wherever you get your podcasts available in particular on youtube where people seem to enjoy the podcast most uh we have audio and visual this is dan natterman with noam dorman uh welcome back noam was sick last week but he looks like he's in fighting for him today we have peri al ashen brand hello and with us via the miracle of teleconference Singh, Dr. John Gardner, clinical psychologist, former assistant professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University Medical School joins us. Hello, how are you, Mr. Gardner? Or Dr. Gardner. I'm good. Thanks for having. Okay. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Gardner, before we get into, you know, the issue of the hand, do you have anything you want to tell us about Dan in your 10 minutes of hearing his off-air patter? Yeah, well, since I've become known for diagnosing at a distance, I guess I could make some wild speculations, but I don't have enough data. Well, perhaps you will by the end of the podcast. Yeah, maybe, give me some time. Maybe at the end, you can give us a rundown on our own

personalities. Perry all is going to be obvious. Sure. What, now, you're a psychiatrist or a psychologist? Because Dan said both things. Actually, I'm a psychologist, but people make that mistake sometimes because I taught in the Department of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Medical School

for 28 years. Now, just secure, like, are they like snobby about psychologists, a psychiatrist, like, you know, little arrogant about psychologists? Well, they're arrogant about everything at Hopkins. But it's a good thing that I've retired because it saved them the trouble of having to fire me since they probably would have given my pronouncements about Trump, which violate the APA's Goldwater Rule.

Oh, let's just start there. So, okay, so you are a psychologist who since Trump came down the escalator almost, you've been warning us that Trump has mental issues, and the issues are both, both, I'll let you speak, of course, but narcissism, personality disorder, and also dementia, or early cognitive decline. Correct. So, and now, and you already alluded to it, there was a very strong rule that professionals were not supposed to diagnose people that they didn't actually examine themselves. So that's what you said you get in trouble for us.

Tell us about that. Actually, that's not the rule. important to mention this. We do diagnose patients that we haven't met sometimes. We can do it by history, by talking to significant informants, by observation. The rule is that you can't diagnose public figures that you haven't interviewed. So why would public figures be made a special case? Well, because public figures can have power, especially for their politicians, to hurt the profession. And the American Psychiatric Association is a guild above all else. for example, during the Trump administration, there was some movement to relax the Goldwater

Rule, given the need to warn the public about his gross pathology. They had a meeting about it at the American Psychiatric Association, and this was reported on in The New Yorker. My colleague John Zinner was quoted as having been at the Ethics Committee meeting where they actually strengthened the Goldwater Rule rather than relaxing it, and the reason they gave is if we allow people to make statements about Trump, he'll cut our third-party payments. later they said they were joking but i don't think they were now now is that the only reason that because i mean the reason i would come to my mind is that when you are dealing with public

people especially politicians of all people you're dealing with a version of themselves that is by its own nature a strategy that they're presenting to the public so it's it's you know it it could it can be a very poor indication of who they are and how would you you diagnose somebody based on a strategy? Let me give you an example. One might think that Trump is a pathological liar because of all the election denial, right? Like this is like, what the hell is with this guy? He's crazy.

But then, if our Trump's defender, I'd say, listen, he has a very significant psychological insight there. He knows if he admits that he lost, he's a loser and his base is never going to rally behind a loser. But if he decides, I'm just going to tell them that I was robbed, and I was robbed and you were robbed, they rally, they will rally around me in a way that they would never rally around a loser. So I'm going to say that I was robbed. And given the fact that he won, it would be difficult to say that he was pathological because he was kind of proven right. So, like, that's an example of how, like, we don't really know what's going on behind the curtain, right?

I would imagine that's baked in. It's not what he says, but how he says it that you're looking at. Well, yeah, doctor, go ahead. Yeah, it could be a strategy. It could be a strategy that could work for him, but we do know that he's a liar. We actually know that he's the most documented liar in the history of humanity. More than Hitler? I don't know that Hitler was a liar. Well, I guess he... Yes, Hitler was a liar. Okay.

that's not what he's mainly known for i guess he was a liar but but the new the washington post stopped counting trump's lies after they hit 30 000 i mean a lot i you know there's no one else yeah a lot of those lies were even a second close a lot of those were i don't if you look a lot of those were not i mean listen far be for me to say he's not a liar he lies all the time but anybody home you should look up that that washington's post thing because they threw everything in the kitchen sink i mean so for instance number four on the washington Post's lists of Trump's lies is, quote, Our First Lady has been a woman of great grace and beauty and dignity,

and so popular with the people, so popular with the people. The Washington Post rates that as a lie. It says, in reality, Melania Trump leaves the White House with the worst popularity rating for any First Lady at the end of her term in polling history. So this is the kind of thing they throw in with a, yes, a very healthy number of outright lies. I mean, who, anyway, I mean, obviously a lot of politicians lied.

Jimmy, I'm sorry, Bill Clinton, lied an awful lot, we've got to say. When does a politician lying become cross the line to being a personality disorder? Well, it's an excellent question. So one of the things that changed in the 1980s that after the Goldwater rule was passed is we adopted a diagnostic system where we, form our diagnoses on the base of observable behavior. So if you can observe someone's behavior, then you can inform a diagnosis. So, for example, just to take one of the aspects of his personality disorder, which is psychopathy, the first criteria is, for Perry L's sake, would you explain what that is?

Sure, anti-social personality disorder. It's the criminal personality. So it's one component of malignant narcissism, so he has narcissism, psychopathy, paranoia, and sadism. Those are the four components of malignant narcissism. Well, the criteria are lying. Well, that's well documented, as I said, the most documented liar in recorded human history. Violating laws and norms. Well, he's a convicted felon.

And we know he's violated every norm of the presidency. What was he convicted of doing? Well, there were like 34 felonies? Yeah, but it was convicted of paying his, his mistress off from the wrong bank account. I mean, that's a little weak, isn't it? But go ahead. Good. Well, just to be fair.

He was convicted of it. Okay. Well, I mean. I know. And also, let's look at all the crimes he was indicted for that we never got a chance to even have the trial because when he won the election, they erased his indictment by Jack Smith, his indictment by Georgia. Let me try to steal the election. He was indicted for it. Let me tell where I'm coming from.

I have no instinct. that makes me reluctant to admit that Trump is either in cognitive decline or a narcissist. I think the narcissism is more obvious than the cognitive decline. But I hate to hear it from the people who seem to have an agenda against the guy already. Like if you think, like you're a man of science, you think about double-blind experiments. You would never want anybody telling you about the efficacy of a drug who has, an emotional attachment to that drug working. You know, I, I, I, it's hard for me to hear about Trump's. You've just described all of psychiatric research, which are funded by the manufacturer.

Right, right. But that, but that's what, but that's why they don't get to decide. It has to go to double, to, to, the FDA requires trials and the trials have very strict experiments. But so when I have a doctor in front of me, someone who's identified himself as part of the resistance, now that doesn't mean that you're not being fair. But when, when you, when you, when you, when you mention things that I actually know quite a lot about, like the fact that this Stormy Daniels thing, which was such, I'm a lawyer, it's just such a ridiculous charge, even if he did or didn't it. Like, you know, you had former heads of the FEC saying, this is a ridiculous charge. There was no way he could know which way to, you know, that, that gets then leveraged as

evidence of his criminality to fit him into the category of the same people who, you know, rape and, you know, harm people and do terrible crimes, a felony is a felony. Oh, you mean like the way he's, like the way he's sexually violated people, he's an adjudicated rapist. So if we want to talk about the other criteria, he was not, he was not accused of, he was not accused of, he was adjudicated something, not rapist, we could, maybe you can go see, not rapist, not rapist, but yes, that's a civil trial, 30 years old, that has his own problem.

But that would be a much stronger case, yes, than this Stormy Daniels thing. Absolutely. Yeah. And also, I agree with you. The thing that he was actually convicted of is the least of the things he was charged with. But if he had not won the election, we would have had the opportunity to see the Georgia case go through and see the Jack Smith case go through. And I would argue that an attempt to overthrow the government of the United States is a pretty serious charge. And he's guilty of it.

Sexual abuse and defamation, not rape. Sexual abuse, what? Sexual abuse. Sexual abuse and defamation is what to do it. Specifically declined to find that. that he was liable for rape. Yeah. So this is a kind of thing that,

anyway, it's very important. But it's still violating the rights of others. It's still violating the rights of others. The point is, as a psychopath, whether he penetrated her with his penis or with his finger, which is the violate, which is what the issue about is whether it's sexual attack or whether it's rape,

it's still in the general category of violating the rights of others. This is someone who violates the rights of others and feels no guilt or remorse about it. It's his modus operandi. Well, we have, I mean, the whole, the frequency with which people have accused this guy of these things has to be respected. On the other hand, on the other hand, he has his defenders who've been with him a long time. So let's go through the things one at a time.

The dementia thing actually really disturbs me. I'm almost ready to stipulate to the narcissism, although I don't even know what that means in terms of the danger of having a narcissist as president, because I feel like we've had narcissists as president before. And if you look at... He's a malignant narcissist, which is different than just a narcissist. Most politicians are narcissists, but when we talk about adding psychopathy and paranoia and sadism, this malignant narcissism is actually a diagnosis

that was introduced by Eric Fromm after World War II to explain the psychology of Hitler and other... He meant it to be a type, not just to describe Hitler, but to describe leaders like Hitler, who are murderous, grandiose, dictator. So it's the most dangerous personality disorder that exists. It's not just Garden Friday Narcissism. Everyone says, oh, my boss was a narcissist.

My wife was a narcissist. This is different. This is someone who is fundamentally destructive and malignant and highly, highly destructive. So let's get the mother, just as an aside, and I want to do the cognitive decline first. I was driving in today, and I don't know what I was listening to, but somebody was discussing John F. Kennedy, who had pressured this girl. that he knew to go over and give oral sex to another guy at the pool who had, they do suspect, had robbed the election both in Texas and in, what was the other state, Illinois, you know,

so, you know, there's a lot of, and that's, these are stories that have come up from a time when there wasn't such an adversarial press to where everything would emerge. So the question is, I mean, obviously, it's always tough to decide when a matter of degree becomes a difference in kind or whatever that expression is like, you know, you have a little bit of something. And at some point, you have to say, this, everybody does this to some extent, but we're at a threshold here where it just can't be called ordinary anymore. It crosses the line between, as you're saying, between other narcissistic presidents. They're all narcissists, but he's in a different. category and his category is dangerous and malignant and I think you believe 25th amendment

worthy correct absolutely yeah all right let's but let's start with this with the cognitive decline he's he's really 25th amendment worthy on basis of his um dementia at this point so to talk about the dementia look when we diagnose dementia we have to see a a noticeable decline in the person's baseline level of functioning in four areas language memory behavior and psychomotor performance so for example when he in the if you look at tape of him in the 1980s he was extremely articulate people don't realize this or remember this he spoke in polished paragraphs now he has difficulty completing a sentence a thought or sometimes even a word his speech is totally tangential he goes from one non-secretor to another he confabulates he imagines things they remembers things that never really happened and so this is a whole level of deterioration in terms of his gait if you've noticed he He has something we call a wide base gate where he swings his right leg as if it's sort of a dead weight. That's been getting worse and worse.

Let's pause. Well, from when would you date this decline from was it evident in 2016 or prior to that? Well, I published op-eds with some physicians in 2019 where we were showing saying that there were signs of dementia. And actually, we were among the group that actually pressured Ronnie Jackson to give him the mocha in 2019, which he then has still been narcissistically stung about. He keeps bragging about how he got the best score on the mocha ever. The doctors couldn't believe it. And it's just a dementia screening exam.

But they keep giving him, by the way, over and over again. We don't give people of screening exam over and over again unless we keep seeing signs of cognitive decline that suggest we need to screen for it. And now they're giving him more cognitive tests. Do you see a difference between 2019 when you first published the op-ed and today? is there it seems like it's moving very very slowly if indeed it is dementia well i would disagree with you and the people who know trumpists would disagree with you as well the people who served with him

in the first administration have said really to a man or a woman he's not the same man he was four years ago so he has deteriorated noticeably since that time all right this this is i really want to push back on this because it actually disturbs me um so first of all just to give some context you're right So in stat news, which is a very prestigious publication, in 2017 had an article, Trump wasn't always linguistically challenged. What could explain his change? Vanity Fair in 2017 experts. Trump's speaking style raises questions about his brain health. The Atlantic is something neurologically wrong with Donald Trump, the Guardian in 2018.

Trump is dangerous. That makes his mental health and matter of public interest. So Politico, we're psychical. So we're psychiatrists, it's our duty to question the president's mental state. So this was almost from the beginning something people were saying. Now, a few things. I did some research, and the odds that somebody who actually had cognitive decline in 2017 would be as high functioning as Trump is today, according to the research I did, is very, very unlikely.

that if you are showing the kind of cognitive decline, which is being described where you can't finish sentences and you can't make words and you can't remember anything in 2017, eight years later, you are going to need assistance to do basic thing. But we see Trump out there handling questions about this, handling a question about that. He does a three-hour Joe Rogan podcast where he speaks about 40 different things. I was shocked like the guy knew about this and knew about that. Things I didn't even know Trump knew about. he's pulling out names. This is not obvious cognitive. Let me get it all out and that you can say, because I know you're going to disagree. But more importantly than that, to me, people like Bob Woodward, or actually, let's leave Woodward out for a second, John Kelly, McMaster, Bolton, maybe one other,

Tillerson, I think. They all came out after the first administration with books and interviews, who's essentially saying, don't ever let Trump be president again. This guy is erratic. He's arrogant. He doesn't read it. Like a million different things. Like, don't ever give that guy the keys again. He's going to get us in trouble.

He's going to pull out of NATO. What none of them said, I went through all their books today. Not one of them said in their books, he showed memory issues. He saw cognitive decline. He was, he was, we were worried about his mental, uh, um, not one now it's it it it's impossible for me to believe that these people john kelly was his chief of staff and he hated him that he would devote himself to an entire book and never mentioned and by the way he was obviously in cognitive decline but they're the ones who would know they worked

with him every day full time and they hate him so how do you account for the fact and then woodward also as Woodward, two books, Apparel and Fear. I went through both of them today with Control F's. Not once did Woodward report anybody saying Trump was declining mentally.

Narcissist, asshole, yes, yes, yes, yes. Now, how do you explain that? Well, you should read Michael Wolf's biographies. Yeah, but Michael Wolf is a known fabulous. He's been dinged a million times, but he didn't spend eight hours a day in the Oval Office

with Trump, Michael Wolf is not a reliable guy. Nobody thinks Michael Wolf was reliable. Not on Epstein, not on anything. He talks about him not recognizing people he's known for years. But just to give a more current example. Just to give

more current example. So during the government shutdown, Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries went to negotiate with Trump. And Trump later said that he met with Chuck Schumer and he brought a very nice man with him. A very nice man. Well, that sort of implies that he's never met

Hakeem Jeffries, doesn't know who he is and obviously he's the minority leader of Vass. He knows very well who Hakeem Jeffries is. He put a sombrero and a mustache on him in his social media account. So for him to say he brought a very nice man with him, that's like going to the nursing home with your sister to meet your minted mother and she goes,

who's that nice woman you brought with her? Mom, that's your other daughter. That's my sister. I don't know. I meet, you know, I'm in a profession. I meet I meet so many people. I can't tell you how regular it is for me. For somebody to show up and say, do you remember me? And maybe it'll come back to me. I mean, it is. It is a certain way, to some extent, because I'm getting, I'm in my 60s, but I can remember this in my force. I mean, how many times in my 40, I'd say to my wife, like, you know, I don't remember

their name. When you go there, you know, introduce so they say, this is, this is common stuff for a politician who literally sees thousands of people. One time I had her scurry off to the bathroom to go through my Facebook friends to identify something. This is normal stuff, but it doesn't really counter what I'm saying, which is that if I had cognitive decline, is there some way that my general manager, my wife, my kids, the people I spend all my time with who I talk about appointments and have to recount arguments and things we spoke about yesterday

and things we spoke about last week and policies, they would say he's slipping. We spoke about this yesterday, no. And we spoke, don't you remember last week we said this? Like, if they don't identify it, I think it's very weak. Well, first of all, I think your premise is incorrect. Okay. The people who have worked with him in his past administration have said he's slipping. They're saying he's not the same guy, that he's lost a step.

You're saying this time. Yes, that people who worked with him in his last administration have said that he is deteriorated noticeably from when they were working with him four years ago. Can you send me at the nature of dementia, the nature of dementia is, is a deteriorating illness. So you send me after the... Then they get worse. And then what we're seeing is then the deterioration starts to accelerate. We are now at the stage where the deterioration is accelerating,

where we see a difference from month over month, not year over year. And what we're getting to is a point where he is going to fall off a cognitive cliff. And he's not going to be compensated. He's not going to make it to the end of his term. Will you send me... Will you send me when this interview ends, a link to Whiteer-Diver's... whatever it is that you're referring to now, so I include it in the show,

because I always hate to just have things said that I can't, you know, that I have no evidence for. Like, whoever it is that you're referring to, who's saying that now. So true to his word, the doctor did send me some links. I'll put them all on the show notes. Two of them, I think, can be characterized as former members of the first Trump administration.

One is Elisa Farah Griffin. I'm reading Wikipedia. 2017 she was appointed special assistant to the president and press secretary to vice president Mike Pence as press secretary to the vice president she traveled with Pence on numerous trips domestic and foreign and was part of the official u.s. delegation to the munich security conference and asean summit 2019 she became press secretary of the united states department of defense and the second one is from former national security advisor john bolton i will let you listen to them and make up your own minds.

But if you're going to be critical of Joe Biden, you have to look at the glaring warning signs about Donald Trump. Listening to him now does not sound like him in 2016. And he was not ever particularly eloquent. 2016, it's not like he was William Shakespeare by any means. That was said nicely. But it is there, I'm recognizing and seeing a decline in him. Others who've known him have said it.

And I think that that matters because, I mean, from comparing Nancy Pelosi and Nikki Haley to confusing the president of Turkey with the president. to confusing Obama and Biden left and right. He does this constantly. He's not where he once was. Yeah, exactly. It's the look. I'm convinced that the stress of having lost the 2020 election, the legal, you know, the convictions, the indictments all just piling up and him finally maybe being held accountable. 34 conviction felony counts and then I'm just asking. In these pending trials, I think they're getting to him and I don't think that he's as sharp as he once was. and I don't recognize how his voters don't see that.

But I would say 95% plus of NATO's planning during the Cold War and since then has been concerned about a Russian attack. That is the fundamental motivating factor why the alliance was created and why it still exists today. And we have sided now in this vote with NATO's principal adversary. It's just unthinkable that a president could do that. Do you believe when Trump would not call Putin a dictator earlier? Is that a negotiating strategy, or do you think he just doesn't think he is one? Look, Trump's defenders say everything he says is a negotiating strategy, including when he says A and the next day says not A, it's all just a negotiating strategy. I think it's an indication his mind is full of mush, and he says whatever comes into it.

He believes Vladimir Putin is his friend. And, you know, you don't call your friends dictators. He doesn't like Volodymyr Zelensky. He hasn't liked him since the perfect phone call of the summer of 2018. So it's no sweat off his back to go ahead and call Zelensky a dictator. This is somebody who is not fit to be president. He can't tell America's friends from its enemies. Is the nature of dementia, as you stated, sort of slowly at first,

and then a cliff, as you describe it, at a certain point. It's how you go broke, slowly, you know, slowly at first and then all at once. Ernest Hemingway. Exactly. Well, we're heading towards that. Look, let me just read you with three sentences, okay, from verbatim, just to give you an idea of how tangential is thinking is. You know, this was on the USS Washington on October 28th.

I never like good-looking people. I never admitted that before, but you see I'm allowed to because we won in the Supreme Court based on merit. You know about that, right? everything in this country is based on merit does that make sense to you not not without the context but i have to i'd like to hear the i'd like to see the video you're welcome to watch but this is how the the press is we'll find that video they show us please do yeah no we'll find it i'll find the so i look this one up uh here's trump reading some prepared remarks and then going off script about the good-looking men and women in the audience and then going back on

to the script, you be the judge. The fact is, we do make the best weapons, but if you don't have the right people to operate those weapons, they don't mean much. Despite that, as Commander-in-Chief, I never forget that our ultimate strength has not come from equipment. It comes from the men and women of the rank and file.

That's true. It comes from you people, incredible people, good-looking people, too many good-looking people. I don't like good-looking people. I never liked good-looking people. I'll be honest with you. I've never admitted that before. But see, I'm allowed to, you know,

we wanted the Supreme Court to think based on merit. You know about that, right? Merit. Everything now in our country is based on merit. And that's why I look at you and I see nothing but merit. It's great to have a country back where we can go by merit. Now we don't go by anything else except for talent and work and hard work. And it's such a big win.

That was such one of the most important wins. The will, patriotism, and spirit in your hearts is our single greatest weapon. The strength that you have is unbelievable. That's why, as we make a record investment in our military, we've never spent so much, and we've never spent it more wisely because now we watch it. You want to hear another one? Sure. This is the McDonald's Summit on November 17th.

Like heroes, they're American heroes. Who the heck wants to sit? You know, those ships are very big, but they're very small. small when you're way up high going very fast and he said it was the greatest day of his life and they told me something i didn't know sir we waited 22 years for this our predecessors and us would practice this run for 22 years i didn't know that for what are they talking about practice i'm assuming they're talking about something well that's isn't that the point that we can't figure out what he's talking no no no i if he's standing on a ship on the day after a mission is

completed. He wouldn't need to say that in that quote. This one, off the top of his head, Trump is talking about the pilots who bombed the Iranian nuclear facilities. And he seems clearly to be referring to the fact that they had to sit in very small cockpits. But think of it, they flew both ways 37 hours without a sputtering of a bad engine, without any problem. But they got in and they said they have entered Iran ice space. And the enemy's waiting. for them. And they dropped the bombs. They hit every shoot. You know, they have air shoots that go deep into the granite mountains. If you don't hit those shoots, the damage won't be as big as you want. And every bomb hit every shoot. And then we hit them with rockets from a submarine that was

quite a distance away, 30 of them. Let's put it this way. They got hit. And it totally took out the nuclear capability. And I said to these guys, when they came in to the office, I said, do you guys like doing this stuff? You know, they said, sir, it was the greatest day of our life. Can you believe this, Congressman? It was the great, I mean, they're like heroes. They're like American heroes. Who the hell wants to sit?

You know, those ships are very big, but they're very small when you're up way high, going very fast. And he said, it was the greatest day of our life. And they told me something that I didn't know. They said that, sir, do you know, we waited? 22 years for this, our predecessors and us, we would practice this run for 22 years. Let me continue. Let me continue. Maybe it'll, maybe it'll come to you. Maybe it'll come to you as I keep reading it. We do it three times a year because they cancel when they heard we were

coming. We were devastated. I see. I say if I were a flyer and they cancel, I'd be extraordinarily happy. Well, we're canceled. So let's forget it. But we were devastated. So I said, this is something you really love. Oh, yes, sir. We're so honored. It was the greatest day of our I mean, it was really great. Can you do it? Can you make it sound more like Trump? People in the sky. It's an amazing story and they hit.

And they say skedaddle. The word skedaddle and the plane went like this. And you know, that's more speed for the bomb, a very, very heavy bomb. And they go boom. Is this about those things? One pilot, the first was it, skedaddle. Is this about- It turns on its side?

I mean, it's unbelievable. Is this about Iran? Was this about the Iran bombing? I don't know what the fuck it's about. It's incomprehensible. Hold on. you're a doctor. You're supposed to take the time to know what the context of the remark is.

So here Trump claims that the word skedaddle, which, according to ChachyPT, is a term which first emerged from the Union Army during the Civil War, that the pilots used this term between them during the bombing run. I had not been able to verify it. We would practice this run for 22 years. I didn't know that. For 22 years, we had a practice. We'd do it three times a year. We would practice this exact run.

And then when you canceled it, because I canceled when they heard that we were coming, we were devastated. I said, see, now if I were a flyer and they cancel, I'd be extremely happy. Well, we're canceled, so let's forget it. But we were devastated. So I said, this is something you really love, right? Yes, sir, we were so honored, this was the greatest day of our life. I mean, it's really great. We just have incredible people in this.

It's an amazing story. And they hit. And then they said, skidaddle. The word skedaddle. And that plane went like this. You know, when it drops the bomb, it goes down, very steeply, because that gives it a better angle. And you know, more speed for the bomb.

Very, very heavy bombs. And they go, boom. And as soon as those things, the one pilot, the first one said, skiddle. And that thing just turned in its side. And it, I mean, it's so unbelievable. What I know is that this is word salad, and that is actually a technical term that we use. This is thought-disordered speech.

You can't even make this up. You can't fake a thought-disordered speech. This is a sign of a broken brain. One thing is for sure, Norm, you'll admit, that it's not the same speech that we would have seen when he was 30 years ago in the 80. No, okay, so let me make the counter argument. Or 90 years ago, it was a nine. I have heard. Right, it's a duration.

That is the point. That's how we diagnose. This is my problem with it. We've all heard and seen people read as you just have some of Kamala Harris's greatest hits. Total word salad. No, no, they are absolutely in the same league. No. When nobody knows what she's talking about.

You're just wrong. Okay. Well, we've heard word salad from Kamala Harris. Nobody ever thought she had. I doubt. No, you haven't. Now, now, and then, and then, of course, what was very... Show me an example.

Show me an example. got one in front of me. So a quick YouTube search of Kamala Harris word salad turns up these examples. To be honest, I don't think she's actually incoherent. I would say she's like content-free, vacuous, circular, tautological, which is kind of remarkable. But there's no doubt in my mind that if Donald Trump were saying the precise same things, he would be mocked and it would be roundly used as evidence of his cognitive decline. Our world is increasingly more interconnected and interdependent. That is especially true when it comes to the climate crisis,

which is why we will work together and continue to work together to address these issues, to tackle these challenges, and to work together as we continue to work operating from the new norms, rules, and agreements that we will convene to work together on. Six of them. Six work together is like that. It is easy in these moments of crisis to question our faith, to sometimes lose our faith for a moment, because what we see is so hard to see that we lose faith or a vision of those things we cannot see but must know. For Jamaica, one of the issues that has been presented as,

an issue that is economic in the way of its impact has been the pandemic. So to that end, we are announcing today also that we will assist Jamaica in COVID recovery by assisting in terms of the recovery efforts in Jamaica that have been essential to, I believe, what is necessary to strengthen not only the issue of public health, but also the economy. Culture is, it is a reflection of our moment and our time. time, right? And present culture is the way we express how we're feeling about the moment. And we should always find times to express how we feel about the moment that is a reflection of joy because, you know, it comes in the morning.

We have to find ways to also express the way we feel about the moment in terms of just having language and a connection to how people are experiencing life. So, but of course, at the same time, this all happened. What was very galling to people like me was that if the headline had been Joe Biden wasn't always so linguistically challenged, what could explain his change, Joe Biden speaking style raises questions about his brain health. Is something neurological wrong with Joe Biden? by these same doctors who are supposed to be objective people,

then I'd say, oh, you know, okay, they're equal opportunity. They're worried about reality here. But it was shocking to me with a much more obvious decline in everything, in gait, in speech, in physicality, in stamina, in every aspect of human characteristics, which was Joe Biden, none of these doctors were writing letters about his decline. As a matter of fact, there was this guy, Jay Olshansky, this doctor that was closing in time, who called Joe Biden a superager.

That just makes me want to call bullshit on the entire analysis because it's fine if you want to tell me Trump is incognitive decline. But then you won't tell me that Joe Biden is incognitive decline. You don't see anything there to be concerned about Joe Biden. I couldn't find anything you ever said about Joe Biden. Well, there was immense amount of concern about Joe Biden's cognitive status. And, you know, I guess two dimensions don't make a right. Were you out there saying that Joe Biden had to mention the 25th Amendment should be involved? You know, we were actually deceived.

And I think that what happens is the people around Joe Biden basically hid him in the White House. They kept him from doing press conferences. No, but one of the, look, you can't diagnose. We all saw it. You can't. Well, we didn't see that much of it. And actually, it came across very catastrophically at the debate. I think that was the moment when he had that blank look, that deer in the head.

headlights look that was really sort of a shock that confirmed a lot of people's suspicions. We'd seen that 20 times prior. Very good at keeping him out of the public eye. So we weren't able to see the decline as much as where where's Trump is all out there. That's just not opening the full come out. He's giving press conference every press conference where he's not answering questions where he's digressing into incomprehensible speech. And he's just going on and people are acting like nothing is a miss. It's simply not true.

We saw we saw clip after clip of Joe Biden. not being decipherable, and the very fact that he wouldn't take questions was glaring evident. This was a man. We all know who Joe Biden was. Joe Biden 20 years ago was the number one guest on Meet the Press. This is a guy who would not shut up, who was a ham in front of the camera, every opportunity he had as vice president as well. And then all of a sudden, he went into hiding. What could have been more obvious? Look, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not defending Joe Biden, but what I'm saying is one doesn't justify the other.

No, but I'm criticizing your profession. I'm criticizing your profession because everything they do. Lots of people were raising questions about Joe Biden. Lots of people were asking. That's why people keep saying, well, if Joe Biden did this, they would be up in arms. If Joe Biden said that, well, yes, because there were people were already suspecting it. Lots of people were, but not you guys, not you guys who were after Trump. You guys only cared about Trump.

This is what bothers me. But that doesn't necessarily negate his argument about Trump. No, it doesn't, but it means that, like I said, you, you, it is, you want to believe, you want to assess, you know, the expert opinion. And you would like your expert to not show any signs of having an emotional involvement in this. And, and that's, it just, to me, the strongest evidence is, is the fact that, you know, I spoke with John Bolton, personally.

I spoke with Michael Cohen. And they did not say that Trump. And Michael Cohen, you know, hates, I found myself at a table of Michael Cohen to by coincidence. And he hates Trump. And he's a liar. And he's a creeper. And he ended up putting Michael, Michael, wound up in jail because of the loyalty to Trump. He would not tell me that Trump has an incognitive decline.

Did you ask the question, direct? Yeah. I asked him everything. Okay, but let's just look just for fun because I was, I rushed to download some YouTube videos. This is going to show Joe Biden in 2010. Joe Biden prior to the 2024 election, Trump in 2016,

and Trump also prior to the 2024 election. So let's play that. And Steve, go ahead. I don't know which is first. and then hopefully you'll be able to hear it too, just so we see the actual decline. And by the way, you should watch Trump on the Joe Rogan show. It's tough to square that with a guy in serious cognitive decline. When people have dementia, they vary in their functioning.

They have good days and bad days. They have good times of day and bad times of day. So the fact that you can show Trump being articulate in one show at one time doesn't prove anything. Fair enough. But, you know, the New York Times says that now. Now he's only in the office from noon to five. Oh, he's 80 years old. And he's passing out.

Well, he's passing out. But the reason they're stopping things at five is because in the evening, he starts to sundown. He becomes more incomprehensible. Well, you don't know that. You don't know that. Dr. Vin Gupta said, this is a direct quote from Dr. Vin Gupta, okay, who's not known as being a partisan. He said it's clear there's age-related cognitive decline. That's obvious.

He's confused a lot. He sometimes mumbles incoherent nonsense when he's asked a question in the press. press pool or in the Oval Office. So it's, you know, it's a little too late to go, what about Biden? What about Biden? Biden's not president. Okay. So Biden's a little irrelevant. No, it's not too late. But we have someone at the helm who is president who is showing gross signs of cognitive decline. Okay. Like I said, you should send me what it was. I want to, I want to share the gross signs with the audience and I will edit them into the thing. I don't know what Gupta is referring to. But let's just play this. What's that?

Just, if they just allow Medicare to bargain for the cost of drugs like Medicaid can't. That would save $156 billion right off the bat. And it would deny seniors' choices. How do I pause it, Steve? This is not working. My pause. Sorry. I don't know why, but I can pause it for you.

Okay, we'll just say this is the debate between Paul Ryan and Biden in 2012, I guess. Go ahead. You can continue. You can hear Trump, I mean, hear Biden, go ahead. Seniors are not denied. Absolutely. They are not denied. Look, folks, all you seniors out there, have you been denied choices?

Have you lost Medicare advantage? Because it's working on right now. Because we've signed up. Vice President Biden, let me ask you, if it could help solve the problem, why not very slowly raise the Medicare eligibility age by two years, as Congressman Ryan suggests? Look, I was there when we did that with Social Security. In 1983, I was one of 183. people sitting in the room that included Tip O'Neill negotiating with President Reagan.

We all got together, and everybody said, as long as everybody's in the deal, everybody's in the deal, and everybody is making some sacrifice, we can find a way. And Biden, I want to give you an opportunity to respond to this question about the national debt. He had the largest national debt of any president in four-year period, number one. Number two, he got two trillion-dollar tax card benefited the very wealthy. what I'm going to do is fix the tax system. For example, we have a thousand trillionaires in America, I mean billionaires in America. And what's happening? They're in a situation where they, in fact, pay 8.2% in taxes. If they just paid 24%, 25%, either one of those numbers, they've raised $500 million, billion, I should say, in the 10-year period. We'd be able to wipe out his debt. We'd be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do, child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our health care system, making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the COVID, excuse me,

with dealing with everything we have to do with. Look, if we finally beat Medicare. And how will you answer the charge from Hillary? I see Trump. Now you're going to see Trump in eight years. go ahead clinton who is likely to be the democratic nominee that you are part of the war on women i think the big problem this country has is being politically correct i've been i've been challenged by so many people i'll say at this time this is this trump people were saying was showing evidence of cognitive decline go ahead go see frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn't have time either.

This country is in big trouble. We don't win anymore. We lose to China. We lose to Mexico, both in trade and at the border. We lose to everybody. And frankly, what I say, and oftentimes it's fun, it's kidding. We have a good time. What I say is what I say.

And honestly, Megan, if you don't like it, I'm sorry. This is last year. There have been many young women murdered by the same people he allows to come across our border. We have a border that's the most dangerous place anywhere in the world. Consider the most dangerous place anywhere in the world. And he opened it up and these killers are coming into our country. And they are raping and killing women. And it's a terrible thing.

As far as the abortion is concerned, it is now back with the states. The states are voting. In many cases, it's frankly a very liberal decision. in many cases, it's the opposite. But they're voting, and it's bringing it back to the vote of the people, which is what everybody wanted, including the founders, if they knew about this issue, which, frankly, they didn't. All right.

So to me, the difference between Trump and Trump is, I actually don't see any difference. And the difference between Biden and Biden is so drastic. And yet the experts told me that Trump was the one I should be worried about, and Biden would know nothing to see here. And this just discredits everything. everything to me. I'm sorry. As Dan said, you're right. It doesn't. And by the way, I never said, just say, let me just say one more thing,

because you don't know me. I actually on this show always said, I'm not even sent Biden's incog. I mean, he's in some age-related decline, but I'm not sure that meant he was out of it like he couldn't be wise and make good decisions as president. I don't know, you know, enough about it, but I don't, I'm not even want to say that Biden is senile, but I just can't believe that that people were pretending that what I saw what we all saw in front of our own eyes wasn't real, and yet those two trumps

were supposed to be like some huge don't you see the difference? I don't see any difference, so go ahead. Look, the whole method of your argument is specious, and here's why. You sound like my wife. She might know something about you, maybe, I don't know.

Go ahead. It sounds like my wife, too, though, in all fairs. By showing him being articulate at one moment in time doesn't prove anything because the nature of dementia is that people have great variability, the good days and bad days. So showing him being compass mentors for a few moments or at a certain selected, edited piece of video, doesn't prove anything. What about the opposite? Showing somebody inarticulate at a certain time, does that prove anything? Well, yes, because the point is, yes, because. more likely right because when you should well if you show someone at unable to put two sentences

together unable to to speak in a coherent way even if they could speak in a coherent way two hours earlier two hours later the point is is it only if you have some kind of organic decline can you show such a complete um flagrant symptoms but they're not consistent they vary from moment to moment is it is it significant the time to day prove anything to show him is significant the time of day of that clip we saw the clip the debate clip we saw which i assume was was a night time well the time of day can be very well you know one of the things that happened during the campaign is we noticed on the our podcast that he would be more incoherent in the evening and after a while they stopped scheduling him for evening activities they tried to put

schedules many things as possible during the day and that's what they're doing now in the white house by having him work 12 to 5 i mean work in 12 to 5 it's not exactly a long day okay because they know he deteriorates as the as the day goes on well we'll see i i my gut tells me he's not in the climb i i mean i i went i was taken to a uh trump rally one time and i went as kind of like as a as a journalist and um to see what all the fuss was about and i did see he was he was totally out of gas. It was late. He was obviously tired. He was

slurring his words a little bit. Slurry was maybe an overstatement, but you could hear but it read as exhaustion to me. And then after and he was a little, you know, a little meandering. You know, he likes to just riff and

talk about whatever was coming into his head. But he would, but to his credit and he said this, but it's true, he wouldn't leave the thread and never returned to it. He'd say something, they'd say, oh, look a deer, you know, and it starts talking with something else. But then he did go back

to what he had left to tie up the end. His leaves. You know, no, no. Yes, I get it. I feel funny saying it because he said it as his excuse, but I have to be honest, he did do that. He didn't just leave loose ends to, you know,

but, but I say, but it's an excuse. And it's bullshit. Well, it may be bullshit, but it's better than... Someone asked him. I'll say one more thing. I just finished my story. So after that thing, I went and I looked up because it was available, what Trump's schedule was that day? This guy had been traveling around doing...

It was his third public speaking engagement that day. He had been flying around on a plane since like 5 a.m. in the morning. He's going here. He's going there. When I read the schedule that this man had kept that day, to then appear at the appearance that I saw. And I tried to imagine myself. I was like, I could not keep up.

And he's doing it every day. This is a tremendous amount of stamina. I was shocked. And I say, well, I have to discount whatever it is by seeing by the fact that this guy is working like a dog. Go ahead. Look, look, he has a lot of energy. I happen to think that he's on the, also on the bipolar spectrum.

That's why he's hate tweeting, you know, 180 tweets in a night. so he has he has a lot of animal energy but you talk about um the weave you know he would say you know they're bringing these uh they're bringing these immigrants from insane asylums and the next thing he says anyone seen silence of the lambs the late great people of the lector he's talk about him anymore that's just genius oh that's genius right sure no that's called a loose association he is very he is very different coming from insane asylums then you want talk about a movie about an insane asylum because that reminded you of the movie you saw and then you

want to ask if anyone remembers the the deceased fictional character uh which is also crazy and then of course because he's so male malevolent he talks about how wonderful hannibal lector is oh they don't want to talk about him anymore the late great hannibal lector um but it's it's a non sequitur it's a loose association when someone asked him about harvard and aren't you uh attacking academic freedom he says well you know the people in harlem you start talking with theville in harlem because harlem and harvard start with H. And you're right. After he starts talking about Harlem, and you know, I got the black vote. Blacks really love me. And he goes, and you know, the people in Harlem agree with what I'm doing in Harvard. So yeah, he brought it back in a loose kind of dissociated, gumming

things together sort of way. But it doesn't make any sense. There's no relationship in Harlem and Harvard, except they both start with H. Where do you draw the line between normal aging? As Noam said, he forgets people's names. Obviously, when you get older, there's going to be, some decline. So where do you then say, well, no, this isn't normal aging? That's a very important point, and it is a important, and sometimes maybe it might seem like subtle distinction, but he's showing a level of thought disorder that is beyond normal limits. The other sign in terms of his verbal stuff is what we call eponymous paraphasias, where he actually, you know, you saw this on social media as a comedy thing,

where they would string together all these ways in which he had these malpropisms when he mispronounced words, But a phonemic parapheria is where you use a word that is not a real word, but it has a piece of a word in it and you just kind of mangle it. He does this dozens and dozens of times. Is that what George, you know what George Bush did? George W. Bush was accused of doing that. Strategiery or something. I don't think he actually said strategyry, but that was the good word. Well, I mean, yeah, and actually, you know, look, one of these things alone might, you know, be small.

But when you're talking about this level of thought disorder, it isn't just when people get old or get tired. Look, you're right. I forget names too, you know. But, you know, you might say, Chuck Schumer came with, you know, you know, you know, the guy, the guy, you know. The black dude. Right, the black guy. You know, you know who I mean. You know, I had this conversation last night with a friend of mine who's my age.

And we literally, it was almost like we were talking in code. It's like, you know, the, you know what I mean. You know the guy I mean. You know, you know. But I knew I couldn't grab the name, right? So I was struggling with it. So I just say, you know, but I knew I didn't know the name. This is a whole different level.

It's not like actually meeting Hakeem Jeffries in your office, someone that you basically have to deal with on a daily basis, and it's not just you can't get his name. You act as if you've never seen him before in your life, like you're a total blank. That's a different level of memory disorder. It's just different. It's not the same.

it's not forgetting someone's name. It's actually forgetting you've ever met someone who you've had extensive contact with on a daily basis recently. I don't believe that Hakeem Jeffrey's story. Dan, do you remember the joke like too old? Again, look at up. What do you mean you don't believe it?

Look it up. I don't believe that he's seeing the guy every day and then doesn't remember who he is. I don't believe that's the joke. But it could be, I will look at it up. I just find that hard to believe. You can't make the stuff. up. Well, but no, Hakeem Jeffries became the majority leader, whatever, the Speaker of the House,

whatever he was. Would he ever become Speaker? I can't, I can't remember. But, no, he's minority leader. But, but, but what, did he have any time as Speaker when Pelosi, when the Democrats were the majority? I don't even know. No. No. Okay. He was number two. Um, and, uh, and Trump was in an office then. And so I don't know why Trump would have been in touch with them. And, you know, I don't even know. I don't, but, um, the joke, like two old guys, And one old guy says, you must know, the old guy says, you know, I'm having trouble, you know, with my memory as I'm getting older. How are you doing? He says, oh, I just went to the doctor.

He gave me this great drug. I'm, my mind's like 40 years old again. He says, really? What is it? Tell me about it. I want to take it. He goes, what's the flower? It's a long stem.

It's got red. It's got thorns. His friend says, rose. He goes, yeah, yeah, rose, what's that medicine, the doctor? I've heard you don't get it I didn't I tell it badly that's the joke that I that I remember his wife's name right did you I've heard yeah I did you so you're predicting you're going a step further and predicting a total non-compous meant as by the end of the term yeah I don't think he can make it to the end of his term I don't think he can make it but you know right now it could be

the weekend at Bernie's White House you know he could be complete because the people around him are such flunkies. I don't know that they'll ever invoke the 25th Amendment. You know, I used to think, well, what's it going to take? What's it going to take for the mainstream media to admit that this guy has cognitive decline? When he's babbling and coherently in the Oval Office, is that what it's going to take? Well, apparently,

that's not enough because he's doing that now. Did he forget who, I think we said to everything. Did he not recognize Jeffries or just could remember his name? No, he said, and Chuck Schumer brought a very nice man with him. He brought a very nice man. And others,

He's not just forgetting his name. I'll give anyone a pass for forgetting a name, okay? He's drawing a blank as if he's never heard of or seen this person in his life when he's one of the major people in government that he has to deal with on a regular basis. This isn't some obscure congressman, okay? It's the minority leader.

Yeah, but he can say very nice man because he's trying to maneuver around the fact he can't remember his name. I'll look it up. I'll put the video, and now I got work to do it, damn it. I'm looking for their headlines. All right.

Well, anyway, I don't know. That's anything else you want to tell us about all this? That's actually, actually a very good point. If you couldn't remember somebody's name, what would you say? Well, and he brought, what might he, you know. He brought, and Trump, you know, in the old days, I would have, like, made jokes. I'm imagining Trump was like Archie Bunker. He brought that colored guy with him, you know, but he can't.

Trump would never. say it out loud that we do imagine a very nice man seems like a reasonable thing that you might say if you were like mortified by the fact that you couldn't remember somebody's name yeah it is it is really disconcerting when you can't remember a name i i tell you that it it bothers me but uh what you're gonna do well it's not as bad we're not talking about a name we're not talking about a word finding problem we're not about a name we're talking about total non recognition as if he'd never seen this person before and his life. That's different. Do you have any advice on any supplements that we

elderly, aging people can take to help us with our memory? You must be on top of this stuff. Yeah, I don't think there's anything that really works. There was Aricep, but I think it's it's basically bullshit. Look, there's other things. He has shown increasing signs of being disoriented. If you saw that film of him in Japan, right? He looked blank. He looked confused. He was sort of staring into space. the prime minister of Japan looked obviously shocked three times she had to take him literally physically move him along and direct him at one point yeah go ahead and then at one point he actually wanders away he actually want and he's been doing this more talk about things that are getting worse we've seen other film of him wandering wandering wandering away from his limo wandering away from the

plane wandering you jogged my memory you jogged my memory you jogged my earlier so we didn't but here they actually had to go go retrieve him he went off camera, 20 soldiers down in the wrong direction, and someone had to go and retrieve. You jogged my memory because you said we didn't see this up with Biden. We saw precisely that with Biden more than one time. We didn't see that. One time we saw a couple of times when he did that. One time we saw Barack Obama have to take him by the hand and lead him off the stage. This was, this was so obvious. And yet the medical community was silent. Well, I think there was a lot of press about it. I think there was more press about Biden.

decline, then there's been about Trump's. So I think it's been... Not from you guys. I didn't see any articles in the Atlantic. I don't know who you guys are, but if you talk about... You people. You people. You people, yeah, right.

You're one of the 27... People you're referring to. One of the 27 doctors, the signs of letter. Yeah. First of all, if your argument is Biden did it too, that's not a very strong argument in defense of Trump. You know, two, you know, it's like the whatever, the dementia calling the other a demented person, the kettle calling the pot black.

No, I mean, two dementias don't get right. No, but you are. It's not a defense of Trump to say that Biden shows some of the same symptoms. No, Biden is not president now. That is not our problem. No, that's not my argument. But two things can be true. They could have an agenda, and he could be right.

I'm, we said that. I'm impeaching the, the, the expert witness here in a sense that everything that you're saying should be like, what's the matter of you? don't you see this? This is blatant evidence, was evidence existed with Joe Biden even more starkly in relief. And doctors who are merely, I'm just doing this because I love my country, as opposed I have nothing against Donald Trump. I'm not part of the resistance, even though you were candid enough to say part of the resistance. I'm not, I'm not part of the resistance. I have to speak up when I see something that is dangerous for the country, when those people didn't speak up, when Joe Biden was

doing every bit the same and more obvious, then I have to wonder whether or not in some way this is being fueled by political opposition rather than patriotism. Now, Dan is right. That doesn't mean it could very well be that you guys are right about Trump and you're covering for Biden. But yet, it would be nice to hear you guys say to own it and say, you know what, America, I know we look bad because it was right in front of our nose. And we need to explain to you. We owe you an explanation as to why we only talked about Trump and we never once talked about Biden. And if your explanation to the American people is going to be, well, no, it was hidden. Nobody saw that. You're going to you're going to cut yourself off at the knees because no.

but he's buying that. Everybody knows you guys covered for him. Everybody knows that. Everybody knows. Well, if we covered for him, we did a really terrible job because stories about his cognitive decline were constant in the media. And look, again, so yes, I have a political point of view, but you have to address the facts that I'm bringing to you, okay? Not just impeaching my own political views. You're not addressing the facts. No, I did. I did. First of all, first of all, I'm open to what you're saying. So, so there's certain, especially the things that have happened most recently. I don't want to have a strong opinion about it because yes, of course, at some point he could, he's 80 years old. At some point, it's even becoming likely that he'll have cognitive

decline. So whatever happened in 2016 and 2017 is really not relevant to me not believing he has now. I'm totally open to it, but I do find my argument about his first term to be very compelling, which is that Michael Wolf notwithstanding the people in his most inner circle who were trying to warn us not to elect him again, none of them said he's in cognitive decline. And I don't find that possible. I don't find it possible that the people who work eight hours a day with you who are now writing books to try to make sure that you're not elected again, if they witness cognitive decline, wouldn't say so. Number one and number two, I don't believe it's possible they wouldn't witness it if it was real.

So I do not believe he had cognitive decline at the time you guys were first saying he did. He might have it now. How do I know? Well, the signs were subtler then, but he's, again, you have to go back and look at the eyewitness reports of people in his administration who were saying he's deteriorated immensely you're going to send me those you're going to send me those he's not the same he's not the same person

yeah I mean but when we hang up you got to send me those is there a quick easy all right I'll send it to you I'll send it to you but I'm not making it up I'm not saying you're making it up but but but we're that kind of show we like to show evidence

it's a deteriorating illness it's a deteriorating illness so the signs are subtle at first then they accelerate and they get worse and worse and look that's what we're seeing look that tape you showed of Trump at the debate, he's deteriorated since then.

Look at the way he's, he can't even answer a question now half the time in the Oval Office. First, he just attacks them in a disinhibited way. And by that, it's one of the things about dementia is it makes people more disinhibited and impulsive. He's starting to show that kind of disinhibition. And first, he's always kind of impulsive and crude. But he's getting worse.

You know, it's getting worse in terms that first started cursing. They started calling people names, you know, shut up Piggy. Well, he did that always. And he's doing things so impulsive. He did that to Rosie Donald. He did that to Rosie O'Donnell. He did the Carly Fiorina. He's a vulgar guy. I mean, let's not, let's not. Is he a vulgar guy? But now it's, now it's every reporter every time they ask him a question. You're stupid. You're a duty face. You know, he just, it's like a three-year-old. He's just spewing out this venom in a more disinhibited, primitive, and disorganized way. And the impulsivity is showing up in other ways that affect national security. Look, he was having a trade negotiation with the Prime Minister of Canada. And because Doug Ford, the premier, the premier. year of Ontario, published a, put on social media, a video of Ronald Reagan talking about

he's against tariffs. And he goes, that's it. I'm not going to, I'm not even going to meet with the president of Canada anymore. I'm not going to talk to him. Like, he's just impulsively willy-nilly. Like, if he gets pissed off in the morning, I mean, just, I guess, kills a few more Venezuelan fishing boats or something. He just acts out. He always was acting out, but now it's worse. Just to be clear. Impulsive. We're disorganized. I haven't been following it. He, those were fishing boats. They weren't, they weren't drug runners? Well, you know, there's really been no evidence, first of all, of what they were. Second of all, even if they were drug boats, which we have no evidence of, it's against the

rules of war to just kill them rather than to object them. So, you know, that's the aim world part, okay? But I'm saying that he's doing things in a very impulsive way, is what I'm saying. Other things is he's falling asleep all over the place. Hold on. As far as just to, that's not normal either. Listen, I'm a stickler, but I just about the drug pose, I, I, I, I, I imagine that this bubbles up from within the Pentagon. There's lawyers involved in some way. It goes through Heggseth. They have their own interpretations of the law in the same way Bush had somebody,

his lawyer tell him it's okay to torture or waterboard, whatever it is. But I don't think that Trump is targeting Venezuelan fishermen. I think it's likely Trump is told that he's killing drug runners and he might not give a shit whether it's legal or not, not like presidents have always been sticklers. I mean, Bush went and grabbed Noriega for drug running, but you know,

the president's break rules to handle very serious problems. These drugs kill Americans, right? I have a teenage daughter. I'm quite worried about this stuff. So I don't know if that's sign of dementia. That's what I'm saying. Obama, Obama droned people in their tents and killed

children, right? And people have thought that violated the rules of law. of war. I think this more gets just personality disorder. Yeah, than the dementia. But, you know, just a little factoid, you're saying, well, they must have run this by the Pentagon lawyers. They actually fired not one person, but the entire department in the military whose job

it is is to weigh in on the legality or illegality of military actions. You're describing what they just fired the whole department. You're describing what there are no experts who can weigh in. You're describing authoritarian. Yeah, yeah, but not. But not mentally ill, yeah. No, no, look, the problem is he's both, okay? He is a malignant narcissist.

He is an authoritarian. So he's a monster to begin with. Now he's a monster who's losing his cognitive functioning, which is even worse. Last question, and then Pariel might want to say, I mean, he clearly seems narcissistic as a layman who tries to understand what that means, right? But there is one thing I notice, and I try to understand it. He does engender certain loyalty from his children, which, as I understand it, is not usual for narcissists. Usually narcissists descend into bad relationships with their kids. But his children...

No, really? That's not true? I'd read that somewhere. You tell me. Where are his children now? They all seem to want to be running away from him. You notice they were so involved in the first administration, now they're nowhere to be seen. I mean, he's so toxic that...

They don't want to be near him. His wife doesn't really hates him. She doesn't want to be near him. Except at times when she's kind of holding him up when he seems like he's falling. She's kind of guiding him. Is Noam's premise valid, though, that narcissists typically have poor relationships with their children? Well, the thing is, I think the truth is he has poor relations with almost anybody. You know, other than his work, you know, the cult followers, to know him is really to hate him.

And this is more about the malignant narcissism than the dementia. but he's such a toxic, malignant personality that eventually he falls out with everyone. You know, he has transactional relationships with people who can make him rich or who he's got corrupt relationships with. But eventually everybody becomes disgusted with him or actually what's interesting is

there's been a kind of purging. And this happens actually with authoritarian leaders. It's not unique to him. It's true of Saddam Hussein. It's true of Hitler. It's true of Stalin. Okay. That the normal people keep getting purged

or the people who have some vestige of a conscience or some expertise or some independent knowledge about their field, those people eventually have to be purged because the only people in authoritarian like him can have in their administration are psychopaths and fanatical true believers and opportunistic yes people who are just trying to use him to gain power and influence and money.

So now we've really gotten to what we call a cacostocracy, a government by the worst of the worst. These are the worst people. You know, Pete Hegsef, Kosh Patel. I mean, these people are total psychopaths who really know nothing about their own. One of the criteria to be in the Trump cabinet is you have to know nothing about your own field. There's a reason for that. Because if somebody knows something, then they could contradict him.

We've got to wrap it up. I'm going to presume to tell you, like, give you some, an opinion on something, and then I'll ask you a question. I'm going to presume to tell you something, which is, no, I'm forgetting a word. But I'm taking a liberty. It's like it's, um... We're going to give you the mocha after this. It's a little chutzpon on my part to say this is somebody I don't know.

To the extent that you want to be believed, you should not show your cards at how upset you are about the politics of this stuff. Hexeth. And this is it, it undercuts the, um, the objectivity, the arm's length. The notion that you're having an arm's length. uh consideration of of the case of donald trump because clearly you're animated by anger and everything about his administration his policies this is like i said i'm going back to my double blinding but here's my question he's a sick man do you think peaks have that except is qualified to be

the secretary i haven't i think it has nothing the fox and friend he wasn't even on the a team of fox and friends he was on the weekend saturday edition i i don't if he's known for being a drunk even in box. If I have to go to the doctor for the doctor to tell me whether my wife is or isn't suffering from cognitive decline, I don't want the doctor to also indif you, I fucking always hated that

bitch. That is going to say, you know what, you're not the guy to tell me whether she has cognitive decline. That's my point. But here's my question. The man is sick. Do you have any sympathy for him? As a doctor, you're describing cognitive decline. Dementia. That's not his fault. You know,

He was evil before he became demented. So the fact that he is harming so many millions of people and destroying our country and trying to essentially burn down our constitution to the ground, no, I really don't have any sympathy for him. You don't have any sympathy for a sick man suffering from a disease? Not if he's harming millions of other people. No, I don't. All right.

I give you points for honesty, doctor. Honestly, I do. I don't know what ethical code that violates. He's got to violate some kind of medical. He's allowed to hate people. He's not hating him for his illness. He's hating him for who he is. And then he just so happens to have this illness.

No, like Israel, you know, they gave Sinwar brain surgery, right? The doctor's there. I'm sure they thought Sinwar was evil, but they felt their ethical obligation was to help a sick man. But you say, well, the problem is there. treatment for what he has. There's no treatment for dementia and there's no treatment for malignant narcissism. It's an untreatable personality disorder. So if there was some way to help him, I wouldn't, I wouldn't. We finally agree on something. Therapy is bullshit. Only for people who are untreatable. Listen, you're a very charming guy in a very good sport and

you argue with good vibes. How would you rate the Trump impression? The Trump impression is a little work. certainly not as good as some of the people that work here. So where you look at? I'm sure it's true. You're in Baltimore? Yes, I am. Well, if you ever get to New York, we'd love to meet you in person and hang out.

You can tell me what you really think. I'd like that. All right, Dr. Gardner, very nice to meet you. Was this Riverside or Zoom? Zoom. Okay, so you can just disconnect at your pleasure. Thank you very much. I hope you had a good experience.

nice to meet you thanks for having nice to meet you that's fun very pleasant very nice guy