The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Robert De Niro, Nick Di Paolo, Jim Norton

Episode Date: April 10, 2016

Robert De Niro, Nick Di Paolo, Jim Norton

Good evening everybody, welcome to the Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. My name is Noam Tawarman, I'm here with, can you get off your iPhone? I'm looking for the article. We'll get it later. With Krista Montella, the great... Misunderstood. Great misunderstood and gifted Dove Davidoff. Oh, wait a minute.

And of course, Dan Natterman. It's a big week here at the Comedy Cellar with a big Robert De Niro performance. But go ahead, Dan. Well, I wanted to address last week there was a big blow-up. We've had a few, by the way. Yeah, I'm surprised to see you this week, Dan. I blew up last week at Nome. I offer this not by way of excuse or apology, but by way of explanation.

Firstly, he bloody well deserved it. That's the number one reason. And the second reason is that my own frustration, of course, bubbles out and oftentimes attaches to Noam. But I haven't had a new joke work in a while, and I've been very frustrated about that. Is that right, Dan? Yeah. My last new joke that worked was about four weeks ago. And I do get very antsy when I don't have a new one work because I feel like that's all I have.

Unfortunately, I have to be three times as good to get half the results as everybody else. Because as you know, Noam, there's a conspiracy against me in show business. That's the only explanation that makes any sense. I've turned it over my head a hundred times. And the only explanation for my career is that there's somebody up there in power that's trying to destroy me. You know, you've written your last joke? No, I haven't written my last

joke, but I'm trying to write... You understand, I have to have the best jokes, because... Yeah, but I mean, like, Paul McCartney... You're like a black guy in the 1930s trying to get into college. I've got to be twice as good! I understand. You've got to be twice as good. I understand. At some point, Paul McCartney... You're like a black guy in the 1930s trying to get into college. I've got to be twice as good. I understand. You've got to be twice as good. I understand.

At some point, Paul McCartney wrote his last really good song. And as he was writing it, he had no idea. He reached peak oil. Peak oil he reached. No, he was reading his... Well, it could be. Now you're fracking. Now you're fracking. That's an analogy I made a few weeks ago, is that I'm fracking now for jokes.

Whereas they used to, when you start, you've got all the oil practically on the surface of the land. And now there's no more oil. I've got to frack to get a joke out of it. Fracking is my analogy. You've all heard me make that analogy. You take it for your own purposes. Not with regard to jokes, I don't believe you.

But isn't there a theory that you get better as you keep going so you should work the opposite? All the stuff that's important in my life I've already talked about. I have more experience. I do the same thing every day for the past 20 years. That's why you don't do jokes. Well, that's exactly right, and that's why Dove Davidoff is getting married and wants to have a kid for that very reason. For the jokes.

You should go to swinging clubs with him. The problem is you tap a well of oil, and there's only so much in the ground. And at some point you have to find a new well, a new vein, a new rich vein. Let me tell you something. If Dan spent like a month at those trapeze swing clubs, he would have a lot of material. Oh, my word. A barrel full. And you could probably write it off.

You could probably write it off? Well, maybe so. Well, that might be what we're doing. Two grand in condoms, $3,000 in admission fees. That cond could probably write it off. You could probably write it off. Work for Lena. Well, maybe so. Well, that might be what we'll do. Two grand in condoms, $3,000 in admission fees. Condoms. So does your pussy. I also am under a slight handicap here. And no, I'm not referring to my general mental state.

But I am slightly handicapped because most of the money I make, I make doing corporate gigs and gigs where I have to be clean. And politically correct. Now, I guess you could argue if I really made a splash as a more edgy comic, then I could do theaters. But, you know, for now, I'm doing a lot of corporates and I'm doing a lot of gigs where I have to be clean. And so I have to work under those constraints. So talking about a swing club, although you're absolutely right,

you're right on point, as you often are. Wouldn't work in those venues. It would not work at those venues. No, no. Well, I'm not sure about that, but you could probably do it in a way that it would work. But in any event, the point is that you need to get outside your comfort zone, Dan,

and take a vacation. I don't know. Get a Dominican girl to marry you. Sit on your face. You need something to jar you. I don't necessarily disagree with you in that regard.

It's easy to say, just become irrepressible. Just turn it out. Turn it out. Shoot an hour. Get a thing, write a sketch, go on a, like, you know. I mean, you're doing the podcast. It's like, I don't know. There's no one specific answer, right? But if you look at any model that has worked for anybody, I mean, usually it just involves them bumping up against the wall or having a great smile to begin with, you know. I mean, Kevin Hart had it, you know, you understand why he connects with the public, whether or not you like him.

Are you indirectly saying you understand why Dan doesn't connect with the public? No, no, no, no. I'm saying he's a less grinning fit, you know. I mean, it's a less, you know. I think that is what you're saying. There are people who are a bit prickly. No, you know, I mean, Woody Allen was a bit like that, too. I mean, there are lots of brilliant people.

But George Carlin is not a guy who immediately connected through television. He's a guy who just kept writing specials. I ordered a salad 28 fucking minutes ago. Anyway. You ordered a salad? Doug ordered a salad

28 minutes ago. I ordered a Fiesta salad 27 minutes ago. So can we talk about... Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Introduce the subject. Now, according to Liz, Norton and Nick are coming,

but I don't see either of them. Well, they'll be here by and by. But so we had a big thing happening at the Comedy Cell this week. Robert De Niro. I was shooting that the last two days. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I mean, a little bit, you know. Robert De Niro was shooting a movie about stand-up comedy.

Yes. And the final scene, I believe, is at the Comedy Cell, and he's been doing some shooting here for a couple days. Yes. And yesterday, he actually performed both in front of an audience of extras, and then he also came up in front of a regular show audience. But he didn't really do jokes. But here's Jim. And Jim, this is Jim Norton. Yes, the great Jim Norton.

The great Jim Norton. And Jim got to do a scene with Robert De Niro. Yes. Jim Norton. And Jim walked in here, and he was like, I've never quite, you know, there's such a thing as vibe. I can't explain why Jim looked different than I ever saw him before. Yes. But he was gushing.

He literally, like, trying to hold it in his smile. Like, he got a lollipop. I mean, he was really, really happy. That's the difference between Jim and me. Why? Why is that? I did a scene with Robert De Niro, and I'm not, really happy. That's the difference between Jim and me. Why? Why is that? I did a scene with Robert De Niro, and I'm not nearly as happy. What scene?

I didn't grow up with a happiness. I did a small part with him and Grodin two days ago. I was happy. Yeah, well, tell me. I'm not knocking you for being happy. Oh, I was thrilled. Jimmy's a big film fan. He can quote lots of things.

I was thrilled. It was fun because it was done. It was done. You know, once something is finished, you can enjoy it. And I felt good that we had the one little scene where he walks by and then the one where he sits at the table. And it was fun to be able to improv. And I liked it because I wasn't nervous.

Like, it was really weird. Yeah, why weren't you nervous? I don't know. I just wasn't. It was like some things are so big, because I like De Niro so much, that you go full circle. I was doing an interview one time. Ozzy's label asked me to interview him one-on-one for this record

release. And it was just going to be me and him for an hour. And it was such an important thing to me. I was so petrified that I went completely upside down and felt no fear at all. Like one step backward and I would have been immobile with being frightened. But it was so far. That's kind of how it was with this and I would have been immobile with being frightened. But it was so far. That's kind of

how it was with this. I would have been totally just paralyzed. That was fun yelling shit at him. And I know in that world, he's less comfortable than we are. That's a good point. In the world of stand-up comedy. Yeah, or in the world of sitting there and we had to yell at his character when he walked by

and just Taylor Hackford tell me if you want to come up with a line or something and knowing I was okay at doing that and I wasn't like, okay, do a Shakespearean scene with him where it's all him and I'm out of my league. This is something I felt comfortable in. Hurling insults at a

passerby. Absolutely. Yes, ask an older gentleman how his asshole is. You ask him how his asshole was? Yeah. I mean, I'd ask him personally as he walked by. He enjoyed it, though. You know, people are too...

I get because of who he is, but people are too... I think sometimes with major celebrities, people talk too gently to them, and they don't treat them like people, and they hate that. I met De Niro once here, and would you believe this character? He comes up to me, and he says,

Hey, you were funny. I said, you jackass. I wasn't on stage. I'm adding a few extra words that I didn't say. Yes. And he said, yeah, you were. You were. I said, you were.

You thought you were Rogel? He thought I was Rogel. That's the second fucking time that's happened. One time a stripper came up to me after his show and she said, hey, you want to hang out with us? I said, sure, I guess so. She said, yeah, you were great on stage. I said, you twat. I said, I wasn't on stage.

She said, yeah, you had the joke about the two wallets in your back pocket because you have no ass. I said, no, that's another guy that's Rogel. Imagine if you were disappointed that she mistaken you for Rogel. Imagine how she would have felt an hour later. Here's that guy we just saw once.

I, you know, had she been more attractive, I would have said, that's me, two wallet Johnny. Oh, God. I wish I experienced the same boost

that other people experience. I've always been interested in why, what is it about seeing somebody on a screen and then you get a real, I don't know, I've never felt that. Well, I think that De Niro is one of the only actors that people...

I'm talking about people in general. I'm not talking about just your experience. So for him, it may be just an individual thing. But in general, I get a lot of that, oh, that's amazing. I don't see what someone amazing about it. I don't get it. Amazing about meeting De Niro, you mean? Meeting whoever.

Well, if it's a person of formidable talent, it would be interesting to meet them and talk about their experience. Dub doesn't get emotional. But I'm not talking about interesting. I didn't say it wouldn't be interesting. I said it's not like, oh my god, it's none of that energy I get. I'm not saying it wouldn't be interesting to actually talk to somebody.

I'm not making this up. This is how I've been for my whole life. So you're totally at ease talking to legendary people of legendary fame and talent? No, it's not about ease. It's about getting very caught up in the idea of bigness for the sake of in some ways. If you introduced me to a brilliant musician, I would be just a, you know, it's not a thing. He's saying fame in and of itself. I don't know what he's talking about.

I think he's saying, and I've known Dove for a while, I can't always understand what he's saying, but I think what he's saying is the fame in and of itself does not impress Dove Davidoff. Well, sometimes what it implies is if you like somebody that much. If you have a personal thing with them, but that's not what I'm talking about. Well, even if you don't like them as much, you recognize where somebody is in the business. When you're doing something with them, when you meet them, you feel like you're kind of closer to where you want to be in the business. It's an elation for that reason, too. But you're talking about your experience.

I'm talking about people in general and their experience of that. But it might represent different things. For you, it might really represent something. It might mean that to them, too. I don't know. For the average person, it doesn't mean it doesn't represent anything with regard to where they are in the business. They're not in the business. They're the average person. Sometimes, every now and again, with regard to where they are in the business. They're not in the business. They're the average person.

Sometimes every now and again people say to me, hey, I saw you on TV. And I don't know how to react to that because thank you doesn't seem like an appropriate response since you didn't say I was any good on TV. You just said you saw me on TV. But I think in their minds being on TV is a compliment. That's what I'm talking about. Well, I thought they said that, but they said they saw me with one. No, but I know a lot of people that got involved in this business, and the reality

of a set is, one, they're fucking boring in general, unless you have a huge part. They're really boring. And the reality of people that get caught up in the business are like, oh my god, I got a part. Had you put that energy into something else, maybe you would have made a million dollars. Now you've walked away with six grand in three episodes. I'm just saying there should be some measure to it.

I think you're hijacking this thing here. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I mean, I think it's... I thought it was an interesting discussion. No, it is, of course it is. When I say hijacking, I mean that you're putting it into your own terms. But I would think that for a guy like Jim or someone acting to be there with one of the, I was starting to say before, one of the few actors that everybody

kind of does recognize really has a special talent, because most actors are just whatever, right? But this is a guy who's really gifted and been in half of the greatest movies that have ever been made, you know? And then you have to be there and acting with him. It's like, sometimes if somebody

like George Benson came and sat in with us one time, like, I can't play a note. It's like you're acting with Robert De Niro. I was doing it. I was doing it two days ago. He wasn't intimidating. I agree. He was nice.

He was quiet. He was not uncomfortable at all in that way. Yes, I totally agree. Now here's the question. The million dollar or maybe several million dollar question. Can this movie break the stand-up comedy movie curse? And you know the curse I'm talking about.

This is true. Every stand-up comedy movie has been El Stinko. Well, it didn't have the look of a high-budget movie anyway. That can be better sometimes. Yeah, like, it's going to be a small film.

Especially recently. Well, then it doesn't necessarily need to make as much money to be profitable. That's what I meant, yeah. You know, Judd Apatow, he made all these movies. He couldn't lose money if he tried.

Then he comes up with funny people. Bombs away. Because what happens is these guys, and I didn't even see that, but a lot of times the producers are throwing in jokes and what they think stand-up is, and when they see what comedians are really like, they don't want to portray us as a bunch of guys that just sit around fucking talking to each other that way for real. They get actors that are never mean to each other. Right. Instead of guys just just sit around fucking talking to each other that way for real. They get actors that are never mean to each other. Instead of guys just sitting around,

we fucking sit out like that's how we talk to each other. If they showed that, it might be interesting. Also, it's hard to represent stand-up comedy on stage because it takes us years to come up with some of the other acts, and they have some script writer writing a stand-up comedy

act very fast, and it's not going to be as powerful as our acts that we've worked on for years. So it's hard to put good stand-up comedy in a movie. But this movie, I would assume, employs stand-up comedians as writers and actors.

Are they going to use the stand-up comedians? Isn't this the movie Jeff is involved in that he spoke about? Jeff's not really involved much. Jessica's a big part of it now. Oh, okay. Jessica who? Jessica Curson. Oh, Jessica Curson.

Yeah, I don't know what we're supposed to say, what we're not supposed to say. I had to perform while he was pacing back and forth. They had a real audience there. The show started whatever time it was. And I'm doing stand-up and fucking like De Niro's going to be pacing in the back in three different outfits. And they tell the audience, don't look at him. You have to look at Jim Norton. Oh, God.

Really an impossible feat. It was good. I mean, I think I acknowledge that up front, but that was a very weird setup. I also saw something in you that I hadn't. I mean, I knew this, but I hadn't seen it in a while. And this goes to your general calmness in general. You really do use the cellar to work out material. A lot of people say they do that, but they don't do that.

So then last night, it wasn't a workout material thing. It was best of Jim. It wasn't even, but it was subtle. He didn't turn it on, hey, Mr. Show Business, but he was like a laser. He destroyed. I mean, there wasn't one moment that wasn't. Didn't you feel that way?

I felt good. Thank you. It really did. And it was a big headwind. I mean, it's true. The director was, you know, De Niro was walking around, and everybody has to try not to look at him. And Jim doesn't usually like to play the underground,

but you killed in the underground yesterday, and it was a tough situation. Yeah, it was weird, but I was comfortable with it because it was such a bizarre situation. I don't was weird but I was comfortable with it because it was such a bizarre situation. I don't know why I felt very calm about the whole experience. And did they just say do your thing or did they kind of pre-approve jokes?

They just said do whatever? Taylor Hackford was really nice. Normally it would freak me out. How am I being brought on? I was home right before that. I was only going to come down for the late show and then Liz called me and said Taylor's asking if you want to bring De Niro on. I literally was eating chicken dinner in my underwear. I was home right before that. I was only going to come down for the late show and then Liz called me and said, Taylor's asking if you want to bring De Niro on. I literally was eating chicken dinner in my underwear. I

fucking put my pants on, put my jacket on, took the dinner and threw it into that fucking garbage thing on the way out and it was in a cab in less than two minutes. So that's the only reason I got down there originally to introduce him before the set you saw. And it didn't matter to me what was happening. Taylor Hackford is the director.

And he's the son. His dad is also in the movie. He directed Officer and Gentleman, Ray. Devil's Advocate, which I think is so underrated. This guy's been around a lot. This guy's no spring chicken. I went to college with his son. That's why I thought.

Devil's Advocate is one of the only modern great Pacino performances to me. Amazing, yeah. Charlize Theron was great. Even Keanu Reeves was really good. It was a good movie. I loved it. That was a good movie. Yeah, he's a nice guy.

So what else? What was on... And Esty did a scene with De Niro, by the way. And Nick DiPaolo was here. The great Nick DiPaolo. Come sit here, Nick. Hi. Come.

Let Nick in here. I'll get out. Hey, Nick. I just drove an hour and 20 minutes. Somebody's getting up. Okay. You sit down, Nick. Hi. Come. Let Nick in here. I'll get out. Hey, Nick. Yeah, I just drove an hour and 20 minutes. Somebody's getting up. Okay. You sit down, Nick. I'll sit down.

So we're talking, obviously, about the big De Niro movie. Grab your headphones. I'm gonna. Oh, he's out of breath. Nick is out of breath. He's drinking cappuccino. Fucking sprinted 100 fucking yards. He's just at the park.

It's a very challenging scenario. Explain to the audience what Nick is up against. Thank you. So we're talking about interactions with De Niro, how you felt. Were you last night? Were you on the show last night? No, I wasn't. Okay. I don't believe in stand-up comedy anymore.

You can talk to Dan about that. I bought a magic book today. It was fun, though. It was fucking great. Wasn't it more comfortable than you thought it would be? He's just a shy little guy. He really is. Well, Dov, you were saying that he was like a Superman without a cape.

I don't know. I mean, that's probably an oft-used analogy. No, no, that was in a different context I used it. No, no, yeah, he's a nice guy. That's a tell's father. No, he had a cape. a different context. I used it. No, no, yeah, he's a nice guy. That's Attell's father. No, he had a cape. That's right. Yeah.

It was weird. I was telling them it wasn't scary for some reason just because it was much more our comfortable area than his. Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. And we're sitting at the table, you, me, and Esty. I mean, we couldn't have been in a more familiar environment. But what was your scene? You didn't do the stand-up familiar environment. But what was your scene?

You didn't do the stand-up comedy club scene. What was your scene? At the table. With him. With Jimmy and Esty at the table. And Hannibal, yeah. How many set-ups did you have? You had a master and then how many set-ups?

How long did you sit here for? We weren't here. We were in the underground. It was a better place to shoot, I think. Yeah, the other club. We shot for 12 hours. Bored the fuck out of me. Well, you must have had a real scene then. No, I think. Yeah, the other club. We shot for 12 hours. Bored the fuck out of me. Well, you must have had a real scene then.

No, I didn't have much of a scene. It was just a lot of coverage and a lot of angles. I had one scene. I slow danced with the narrow for like 10 minutes, and then we'll be in there. It was fun, though, man. We had two quick scenes, and they let us improv, and me and Nick would go, are you going to say this? I'll do that.

Okay, it was just fun, man. Well, exactly. The day was, you know, thank God you're with somebody you can trust. And, you know, we weren't trying to hog. You don't trust Jimmy. I do. I really do. I mean, as an actor, of course.

I mean, but. He wouldn't let me share his beverage. Yeah, no, exactly. In the context of a scene, maybe. Did anybody find it interesting that this guy started his day at 9 in the morning and was still working at 2 or 1 in the morning? He's an animal. Well, it's called cocaine. I mean, you don't think of Robert De Niro doing that, right?

You figured he wouldn't even tolerate that. Well, he's also 70-plus years old. Well, that's the amazing part. You don't have a choice in a 27-day shoot. I mean, when I've worked with these guys, you know, you don't have a choice. You go on the trailer. If you want to make that kind of money, you commit to the project,

you go to sleep for three hours, and you go back on set. But it's still pretty amazing when you see him. I'm just saying. No, no. I mean, that's... I don't think it's that, you know, yeah. Who wouldn't work all day?

He's 72. He's 72. Plenty of things impress me. Well, Dove is like... He's 72. Dove has lost all sense of childhood wonder. Yes, he has. Is that what it is?

I don't mean, you know. He's a great actor. I'm not saying he's not. I was really curious about this. He took direction. Did you know there were times? Yeah, from Esty. Yeah.

Remember? That was the highlight of the day. The first time we ran the scene, the first time we ran it, De Niro comes in, Esty's supposed to spot him or something, and Esty delivers the line, and then De Niro comes in Esty's supposed to spot him or something and Esty delivers a line and then De Niro delivers something and the director steps in

and goes Esty no no no no you stepped on Bob's line no I didn't I have two lines and then he said this and then I say that and the director

he goes holy shit she's right and De Niro I saw him snickering out of the corner of his view De Niro left that was the highlight

of the day Esty was like fucking I called her the Elizabeth Taylor of Israel. She was just bitching all day about her. Yeah, how hot it is. How hot it was. How long she was.

She was fucking great. By the way, did anybody read the script? Did anybody get the script? I didn't. I didn't even get the little signs. I had seen a much older version. I have a copy of the signs just to have us all on a call sheet together. I had nothing.

I was laying on my bed. This is how negative I am. I'm laying on the bed the night before going, I wouldn't doubt if I got down there. Everybody had sides and I had nothing. I was laying on my bed. This is how negative I am. I'm laying on the bed the night before going, I wouldn't doubt if I got down there. Everybody had sides and I didn't.

I'm sitting there. I get down here. Esty's got her face on her phone. Jimmy's got his face. I go, what the fuck's going on? Sure enough, I had... I'll send you a photo

of the call sheet. I kind of like they were all in the same call sheet. Nick wasn't sure he wanted to do it until he knew what the scene was. He said, you want to do

a scene with De Niro? He goes, maybe. Let me know what the scene is. No, I didn't know De Niro. No, she has it wrong. Nick has a very discerning taste. You know, the guy's not just

going to take a part like an animal. No, exactly. There's no scene he wouldn't have done with De Niro. We want you to eat cum out of

Chaz Palminteri's ass. Is Bob going to be there? No, exactly. If Bob is handing me the spoon, I'll do it. No, no. It was surreal to be there. It's not that there's no sense of childhood wonder.

What I feel like is that people have been hustled to some degree by this business. The idea of thinking a set is special for the sake of, I'm barring De Niro, I'm saying a set in general. You hear radio programs going, we're going to give away two passes, you're going to get to sit on the set. There's nothing more boring than a film set. Nothing. You wait 90% of the time. And most people that have never been on a film set are like, oh my God, have I got a movie. If you've ever done movies and you sit next to Grodin, the guy just wants

to get the fuck to lunch. Well, that's because he's 106. No, long before that. But, you know, anyway. It's still fun. And the way they were working it, like, there was one stupid word they wanted me to say. They wanted me to say views. And you can say you have a lot of YouTube views, but

it's just like, yeah, your video got a lot of hits. It just seemed to me more the way we were talking. Like stilted, yeah. And I actually said something and the director came over and De Niro goes, nah, but he said that this is how people talk. Jimmy stepped right up there. And he was fine with it. Nobody was a problem, but they seemed kind of amenable to listening to certain improv. Nobody was a problem. They seemed amenable to

listening to certain improv. They're all nice. There are no egos on a set usually. Usually people are cool. Is that the whole movement now in films is towards improv? I don't know. Every set I hear about now is realism.

Dog Day Afternoon won the Academy Award for writing and it was all improv. Actually, I think French Connection was also. That's the thing. Actually, I think French Connection was also... Yeah, you know. That's the way to work. I mean, like anything else, it evolved, you know?

Yeah, it's nice when you check something organic. How do you not want that? No, and then, you know, Scorsese started doing a lot of that in the 70s. And also, you know, if you have Bill Murray

in a movie, like in Caddyshack, you're going to get a lot of improv, whether, I don't know if De Niro's a big improver necessarily. It depends who's in the film.

And who's doing it? Especially comedy improv would help. Yeah, but he did a ton of that stuff with Scorsese where they just gave him the outline of the scene. Woody Allen does that. I'm excited to meet Michael Moore. Is there an analogy anybody can think of of a huge star like De Niro coming in

and picking the comedy cellar to feature in a movie can think of a huge star like De Niro coming in and doing and picking the comedy seller to feature in a movie and then we talk about it on the comedy seller radio show. This might be new ground we're in here. No, they did that with Titanic. Yeah, sure. Was Grodin around? That dude's a character.

No, is he in this too? Yeah, yeah. I didn't get the script. Like I said, I get a text from him. I sat all day next to him. All day long. Yeah, he's a fucking pilot. Not a lot of icons. Yeah. No, no. When he was 30, he was a miserable fuck.

And I love him. Yeah, yeah. Excellent actor. Funny guy. He is a funny dude. The director invited me to submit music for the soundtrack. Oh, wow. He didn't promise that he'd use it.

Right. Cool. Are they going to use Last Train to Clarksville? I think he's, what? Last Train. He did it with a it. Cool. Are they going to use Last Train to Clarksville? I think he's... What are you, Esty? All right. But that's how open and nice they are. You know?

He's like... Anyway. Yeah, they were nice. Do you know this guy, Richard Stratton, the drug smuggler? I do not. Dick Stratton?

He's here. We're going to bring him up. Okay. I'm not familiar with him. No, but I've interviewed a lot of drug dealers. He's apparently the famous drug smuggler. When you weren't here one week, we did interview the guy Okay, I'm not familiar with him. No, but I've interviewed a lot of drug dealers. Apparently he's a famous drug smuggler.

When you weren't here one week, we did interview the guy, Billy Hayes, I believe his name was, from Midnight Express. Yeah, the real dude. I think Jim was the guy who suggested that. Really? I talked to him, yeah. He's a lot of fun, a real nice guy. And the escape scene was completely different

than the one you saw in the movie, according to him. So they allowed us to bill Robert De Niro on the lineup last night. Yeah, I heard. And then at the last minute, Jim says, oh, De Niro says he's going home. I'm like, oh, shit. So we talked to him for a while after we were done shooting. He sat there with us for 15 minutes and just chatted. He gave us both a hug at the end.

So, at the end of the story, we had to take the cover charge off everybody's check last night. No, we didn't have to. You guys are pretty fair. I decided to do that. Yeah, because I felt, because De Niro didn't do stand-up. Right. I heard he was bucked by Harvey Cudgill. And thank God, because Liz was telling me, like, you should jack up the prices.

De Niro, you can charge less. No, no, it's just $12. Well, isn't there something with SAG that, I mean, they all have to be approved in the audience? I mean, I don't know how that, you know. No, they weren't shooting last night. No, they were not that part. They weren't going to shoot. He just went up and talked to them for a minute because he was tired.

And I thanked him for coming. I think that's fair that you took the cover off. This way they got to see De Niro for nothing and watch his show be taped. They got to see Ryan and they got to see Ida Rodriguez and Shang Wang and fucking Greer. Shang Wang? That was a dicey set. Yeah. Which one?

He went out there and he said, I mean, she went out there and did hickory dickory. You said it was a dicey set. And it was late. It was supposed to start at 11 o'clock. It started like 1230. I figured we'd just take the cover charge off and not even... Where we shit on Tuesday was 12 hours in the ballroom, in Edison Ballroom in Midtown.

And, you know, 200 extras or whatever. And he was doing the scene from the podium all day long. Did he do stand-up there, too? Yeah. I heard he was very funny at the roast. Who wrote the stand-up? Jeff Ross? I don't know.

No, he's out of it, isn't he? I heard he's gone. I don't know. I have no idea. He's pulled out of the project. I have no idea. He's pulled out of the project. I have no idea. I mean, some of the roasts was fine. Do you think this movie's good for the seller? Do you think it's going to... Anything that's amongst the brand

is always good for the seller. Don't you get it, Noam? God has his eye on you. Yeah, because I think you need more people down here. I haven't seen the whole fucking 11 years. What, are you going to stack people on their shoulders now in this place? Chris Rock came in yesterday and then went over. Did he hang out with De Niro? Yeah, well, he was upstairs with Questlove for a while.

And he went in and said hello to him. But it's so funny, when De Niro's in the room, nobody cares where the celebrities are around. He was with Edie Falco, and then he was with Leslie Mann and Chris Rock. Everyone is just like, there's people in the way of De Niro viewing. No one cares whoever else is in the room.

He's one of a very very small group of celebrities I'm gonna call me that years ago and it's Steve Guttenberg even honest even on a set people stare Gene Simmons was there from kiss and they're one of my longest standing group of idols like I love Kiss man when I was seven my first fantasies in life were about kiss I used to fantasize that Kiss would show up to my apartment with their costumes and their makeup, and they would beat me and hurt me and throw me down the stairs

and then hug me and love me and make it all better. I don't expect you to relate. I've told that story many times. I've never had an audience member go, I hear ya. Hey, Bob Kelly, what's up? Dude! So I, uh, I went to see Kiss at the Garden.

And I'm not going to lie, man. I get pretty starstruck most of the time. But my friend knows Gene, and she snuck me backstage to get a photo. And I couldn't talk. Like, I shook hands with all the band members. And I tried to say hello, and my mouth wouldn't work. And I am standing in front of my childhood idols. They're all behind me.

And Paul Stanley reached around affectionately for the photo and put his arm on my shoulder. I was so starstruck, I took my stupid head and went... How homoerotic is that? I rested my head on the bicep of a shirtless man in heels and makeup. I swear to God, if he would have kissed my neck,

I would have went, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Paul. It's funny. It is weird because he's such a normal dude. I mean, literally, the guy couldn't be more normal when you're around him. Well, he's shy. I mean, he's painfully shy.

But a lot of guys are painfully shy, but they don't have that aura. They don't have that iconic kind of thing. Johnny Depp seems like he would have that aura as much as is possible. Johnny Depp. Every time I see him being interviewed, he's always in this weird, spacey, cool guy mode. Yeah, exactly. I want to smack him.

And with a slight English accent. De Niro's not pretentious. He doesn't put on airs. He is what he is. But I've got to believe you. There are lots of people that aren't pretentious. Bob Denver. You don't think so?

I've got to believe Big Stars. what he is and he's a... But I gotta believe... There are lots of people that aren't pretentious. Nah. Bob Denver. You don't think so? I gotta believe... Big stars? Denver was never pretentious. What makes people want to stare is that he's not pretentious. I'm saying, what is it about somebody that makes people want to stare?

I guess it's just all the roles, right? It's all the roles that you internalized growing up. They're seeing the guy from Goodfellas saying, hey, you're gonna put up... You know, they're seeing that guy. From Main Streets

to fucking The Godfather. Right, right, right. He's contributed., you know, this thing, that guy. From Main Streets to fucking The Godfather? Right, right, right. He's contributed. Godfather 2, yeah, he's contributed some great movies. Look, if I, I mean, when somebody's part of your life, if I met Rob Molly Ringwald, I would probably be starstruck because she represents She's like 185 now. She, well, but she represents such an important time in my life.

Before some of the, before darkness fell. Before darkness fell. My last couple of good years before it all fell apart. That's what she represents for me. Molly? Molly does. Yeah, 85, 86.

That was for me. That was before it all came crashing down. Two decades ago. I know. It's been a long time I've been in this hole. It crashed when you were 11? I was like 16. But 17 is when it kind of got out from under me.

You did, Nick, you did a big scene with Giamatti, right? Paul Giamatti. Well, I mean,

he was in, it was, there was the 12 Angry Men thing, so it was more of a, what do you call it? What was he like? He was great. Ensemble.

He was as cool as, you know, we were talking, he goes, hey, he goes, we're standing next to each other. Yeah,

he goes, my agent keeps sending me, every role I go up for, I'm an asshole. I go, yeah, me too. Apparently, we're standing next to each other. Yeah. He goes, my agent keeps sending me every role I go up for. I'm an asshole. I go, yeah, me too. Apparently, you're getting the roles. But he could have been. He's a hell of an actor, that dude. He was so cool.

After he goes, hey, after my big scene, he goes, hey, man, you're going to fucking do more of this shit. He's having a great year. Giamatti, De Niro, who else? Todd Berry. Kevin Brennan. And the Kevin Brennan story and now this radio with Dan

no and Horace and Pete Louie's thing it's I mean Edie Falco Alan Alda Steve Buscemi Jessica Lange

Paul Giamatti last year I'm just you know that's amazing I was shooting that I got lucky yeah last week and

I was shooting that that show today and met de Blasio de Blasio came why'd you just rain on my parade and fucking no no I'm not raining on your and I was shooting that show today and met de Blasio. De Blasio came. Why'd you just rain on my parade of fucking stuff? No, no, I'm not raining on your parade. I was telling them, you know, I'm on a fucking radio. I don't know what to say.

I don't love, you know. De Blasio. Don't get Nick started. No, no, I just thought he was an immediate guy. I don't like him politically, but he could be a sweet guy. I mean, Mustafa and Hatem came in. Yes, Mustafa was here last night? What time did he come? I didn't see Mustafa politically, but he could be a sweet guy. So Mustafa and Hatem came in. Mustafa was here last night? What time did he come?

I didn't see Mustafa. I saw Hatem. He was right before the show. He was here with Hatem. I saw Hatem hitting a Jewish guy. And both of them are leaning towards Trump. Yeah, exactly. And neither of them were offended by Trump's anti-Muslim stuff.

That's surprising. You're smarter than the average fucking stupid American. I mean, because Jim's a Trump supporter, Nick's a Trump supporter. Yeah. He won me over. I wasn't from the beginning, but fucking after a... Are we going to get into this? Well, Noam always figures out a way to do it.

I was damn impressed with that transition. Oh, that was good. Oh, that was good, baby. I love the tension between these two. When I'm in the car, I laugh my balls off. You guys are great. Nick said to me yesterday, he has his own show now, a podcast or whatever, and he says,

I promise I'll talk about politics, but all he wants to talk about is politics, right? And I identify with it. First of all, it's new every day. It's interesting. It's what the whole fucking country is talking about. The whole world right now. Yeah.

I mean, Trump is apropos. Jim, you talk about it on your show, right? Yeah, we do. It gets a little boring sometimes, but I mean, he's in the news. I mean, it's hard not to. Jim, you talk about it on your show, right? Yeah, we do. It gets a little boring sometimes, but I mean, he's in the news. I mean, it's hard not to. I'm only doing an hour, and I'm by myself. There's no guests, no phone calls. I think it might be interesting for people to know that two Muslim guys,

they're not even second-generation, born in Egypt and in Palestine. Both of them are like, yeah, you know, I get it. There's a real problem with Islam. Are they Muslim or not? Yeah, that's apropos. Yeah. That's apropos, but it would be better if maybe we invite him to come in, say, in a week or two. Okay, we can do that.

Trump, what do you know? Well, now, say, here's our former, what did Hatem do here again? Well, Hatem was the door guy. And Mustafa went from being a waiter to the door guy to Dave Chappelle's manager. Oh, that's right. He negotiated Dave Chappelle's manager. Oh, that's right. He negotiated Dave Chappelle's Comedy Central deal. Did he really? Yep, the one that Dave walked out on.

How is that not a movie or a TV show? He negotiated that? He negotiated that. Could you meet my agent, Al Shabab? Talk about immigrant story. He came here with nothing. Starts out as a waiter in the aisle tree and finds himself doing million dollar deals at Comedy Central. And after they've walked out, he's back to nothing.

And he sued Chappelle and then they're friends again. Yeah. We should bring him on. Wow, he sued us? Are they our friends again? Yeah, they're friends again. Yeah, that's a show. Somebody walked out on me, that would be my friend.

That's a fucking movie right there. Yeah. Not a Jew mentioned in the whole thing. And he feels that the reason he does stuff like that, he says, because Americans are soft. They're entitled. And if they feel they have to work hard, they feel it's not fair. Yes. That's what he feels.

That's why he was able to do it. Checkmark, checkmark. That's why Steve Fabricant is going to be out there forever. So are we going to bring Stratton? What's his name? Yeah, we're going to get Stratton. You guys. We have this guy.

He's a former drug dealer, and he's done some prison time. No, Gnome found him, and it seems like an interesting cat. Gnome found him. Gnome found him. Gnome found him out in a park. He's giving him money. I think he's right behind you. No, do you want me to get up and he can sit here?

That's fine. All right. Well, that was Dove David. God bless. And we'll see you. You can see Dove in the upcoming movie with Robert De Niro, which I forgot the name of it. Dove's a good actor. Dove is one of the best.

Yeah. He's not a good actor. He's one of the best. You ever look at your friends and think, how bad were things with me when I met you? You know, like, how bad did I feel about myself when I thought you'd be a reasonable person to share experiences with?

This guy's still, like, he's an hour late every time I see him. He's always late, you know, and he's an hour late and still blames. He'll blame it on his horoscope. Could you imagine an adult male blaming something? I go, Mike, you're an hour late. He goes, what are you doing, bro?

I'm a Capricorn. I was like, what the fuck did you do? I thought it was because you were a fucking idiot. I didn't realize we should check the moon before making plans. And then, so I opened it.

I looked in the paper, and I looked to see, to see, like, is there any legitimate significance with regard to horoscopes? And there may be, ultimately, some zodiac significance. But it's very broad.

I look in the paper. Every horoscope applies to every person. Every single person, every horoscope. It's literally like, ooh, Virgo. You know, this weekend, you don't like to get hit in the face. As a Virgo, you know, you tend to shy away from a cheek slap. As someone born in September, when people beat you in the face, you tend to not wanna, you tend to, it's not for you, as a Virgo.

It's ow, as a Virgo. You know, also Libra, if you fall asleep, if you're camping and you fall asleep on a snake, you're gonna wanna roll away, Libra, if you fall asleep, if you're camping and you fall asleep on a snake, you're going to want to roll away, Libras, because as a Libra, venom for you in the face, face venom for a Libra is not for you as a Libra. You tend to experience it as toxic, as someone born in October. My friend, Stephen Calabria, writer for the Huffington Post, called me effusive and gushing because he said, we have to meet this man, Richard Stratton, who was a drug smuggler and an author and has had profiles written about him in New York Magazine and things like that. So, welcome to the show, sir.

Thank you. Now, you're sitting at a table of greatness because we've had one of the best here on this show. You're familiar, of course, with... What's that guy's name again? Which guy? From Midnight Express. Bobby.

Willie Hayes? Billy Hayes. Billy Hayes. Yeah, one of the best. I want to specify that I was a marijuana and hashish smuggler. Talk right into the mic. A cannabis smuggler. So I don't know if that makes me a drug smuggler anymore, since it's virtually legal.

First of all, what year did you start smuggling drugs? I started in the mid-60s when I was a student at Arizona State University. I started smuggling like a kilo or two back across the border from Mexico, bringing it back to Boston, which is where I came from, selling it to my friends and making what then was a lot of money. Southie? I know Jim has a lot of questions, but were you aware at the time of what the penalty you were risking was at that time? Yeah, and at that time, actually, it was quite substantial in those days. But I will say that when I was sentenced here in New York under the continuing criminal enterprise, the Kingpin Statute, I was facing a minimum of 10 up to life with no possibility of parole. Had I been sentenced two years later, I would have received a mandatory life sentence.

And in fact, two guys were just sentenced to life with no parole up in Syracuse, New York for smuggling pot. It's still on the books to this day. That's crazy. What method would you use to get two kilos across the border? Well, in those days, it was easy. We used to just hide it behind the door panel in my roommate's truck. But then, you know, years later, we graduated to using planes and boats.

Planes? Planes, yeah. And then we started doing... You flew on the planes? Yes. Wait, did you write a book called Adventures on the Marijuana Trail or something like that? No, I wrote a book called Smuggler's Blues, which is just out right now. Just came out.

I always love a good drug book. Or drug any story is always good. Bob Escobar. And as you may not know, because we don't know each other, but I just... I'm a little late to the party, but I'm starting to watch Breaking Bad. And I don't know if you're familiar with that show. Breaking Bad, I'm very familiar with that show. It's a really interesting show. I'm starting to watch Breaking Bad, and I don't know if you're familiar with that show. Breaking Bad, I'm very familiar with that show. It's a really interesting show.

I'm fascinated. So you actually flew on the plane from where to where? Well, I flew from several planes, from Jamaica into the United States, from Mexico into the United States. Were you the pilot? No, I was like a co-pilot. I always had hired pilots that I worked with. Did you ever work with Barry Seale? No, but I know who Barry Seale is.

What about Sullenberger? Why would you fly on the plane? I would think I would want to have a little risk to myself as possible. Well, you know, I think I've often said I think the reason that I did what I did was because I was an action junkie and I enjoyed the adrenaline rush of it. When I was really a freshman in college at Arizona State University, and I smuggled that first two kilos in across the border, it was such a rush. It's like gambling, really. It's very similar to the kind of adrenaline rush that you get.

So it's not the money? The money was secondary. It was really secondary. It was all about that excitement and living on the edge and how that becomes really addictive. What's the time that you came close to getting caught but didn't? There must have been a time where something almost went wrong, and you just missed getting busted. Well, it happened several times, and I ended up getting busted. I got busted in 1978 on a big hashish case here in New York that we ended up beating

because, interestingly enough, the DEA had stolen the load and sold it to some other people. So when it came to them having to produce the load, and we knew they sold it because I was living in the Chelsea Hotel at that time and these dealers that I knew kept coming to my room and showing me my own hash and saying it's on the street. People are selling it. So we knew when they

arrested us that they couldn't produce the evidence. And my lawyer said, where is the hashish? He kept going, where is the hashish? And they couldn't produce it, so they dropped the case. Wow. Is that the Chelsea Hotel? Is that next to Gotham Comedy Club? Is that the club?

Was El Quixote Restaurant there in those days? El Quixote Restaurant, yeah, that was my hangout. Oh, I mean, anything else? No, it's just interesting to hear how many ways of avoiding prison there are. Like, you know, we recognize our own drugs on the street, and they couldn't produce the drugs. How many guys wish that had happened? What a lucky way that is to get away with it. At your peak, what kind of revenue was going back and forth?

Well, the last trip that I did, the one that ended up being the focus of this trial here in the Southern District of New York, was 15,000 pounds of hashish that we brought in from Lebanon. Lebanon. Yeah. That's good stuff. We brought it in in these dates. I bought like a million and a half kilos of dates in Iraq and shipped them overland to Beirut. And then we hid the hashish under the dates and got it all in.

In fact, they never seized any of it. But I got arrested on what they call a dry conspiracy. They arrested the Lebanese guys a couple years later, and they ratted me out. The feds brought me to trial, and they charged me under the continuing criminal enterprise statute. My end alone on that trip was $5 million, because it was basically a $15 million wholesale trip, and I made about $5 million. That's all cash. All cash. Now, where is it buried?

Is that a Rico check? Can I say, how does a college student get to the point where they're in Lebanon, you know, to what you just described? What's kind of the trajectory? Do you go from Arizona State to this? So after having smuggled a couple of small loads of marijuana in in the early 60s, I became basically a freak, a hippie. Grew my hair. And then it was like there was this kind of hippie highway that you went on when you went to Nepal, you went to Afghanistan, you went to India, trying to find the best cannabis

that the world had to offer. And then we started using these suitcases with false bottoms in it and smuggling the hash back into the United States. And then as we got bigger and bigger and bigger, then we came boats, sailboats, airplanes, and finally what we call the commercial smuggle, which was where you would go to a country and buy a product that was in demand in this country and then hide the hash in there and actually take it right through customs. That last one that we did landed in Newark and went through customs. People don't smoke a lot of hash in America, do they?

It's more of a European drug. We ended up having to sell a lot of that in Canada, actually. Canadians love hash. How old? How old am I now? Can I ask you that? Seventy. Seventy years old and you're free.

I'm old and free. And you've had an amazing life. Would you do it all again? I mean, you must have had fun every day of your life. A very good question, by the way, Noah. Well, you know, what I would have to say about this, and we've just been talking about this, we were right as far as cannabis was concerned. You know, I was one of the founders of High Times Magazine.

Oh. And we knew back then that ultimately we would come to this day, that this whole reefer madness was madness, and that marijuana was not the dangerous drug. Now, hold on. I'm going to correct you there for a second, because one time I freaked out on marijuana. I have a delicate constitution.

That's anecdotal, Dan. You can freak out on marijuana. I'm not saying that you can't, but it is also a very beneficial substance to the life of people. My father smoked every day of his life. A lot of people smoke every day of their lives. It has not done anything. Bob Marley was... And look at

Willie Nelson. There's a guy who smokes a lot of cannabis. Do you still smoke? No, I don't smoke. How much time do you do? I did eight years total. Okay. I was sentenced to 25 years here in the Southern District of New York, but fortunately for me, the judge said, the reason I'm giving you so much time,

because I argued, it's only marijuana, Judge, what are you doing? She said, the reason I'm giving you so much time is because you refuse to cooperate with the government. You didn't rat nobody out. Good for you. I didn't rat anybody out, and the guy that they were looking for was Norman Mailer, who was a very close friend of mine. Oh, really?

Yeah. Interesting circle of people. The hippie godfather. And now there's a TV show that's in the works? There is a TV show, and the book just came out, Smuggler's Blues. I'll keep hyping that up. Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

You know, and I will say Breaking Bad's a fantastic show. The first three seasons I thought were great. Then it started to go a little bit downhill. It's hard to maintain that pace for five seasons, but I'm telling you, I'm in season five now, and I'm still pretty hooked on it. So you do regret it or you don't regret it? No, I don't regret it. You don't regret it.

I don't regret it. I don't even regret the eight years I spent in prison. It was a fascinating experience. Really? Anything terrible? Any horrible things happen in prison? I spent in prison. It was a fascinating experience. Really? Anything terrible? Any horrible things happen in prison? I think prison has just got to be the worst. Where were you, upstate?

No, I was in the federal system. So I started out in Lewisburg, and I did see a guy get stabbed to death in Lewisburg. And there was a lot of bad shit that happened. I mean, the Aryan Brotherhood, and there was a lot of negative stuff. But ultimately— They left you alone? They left me alone. You weren't forced to join the Aryan Brotherhood?

How did you get away from doing that? What year was that, Richard, when you were at Lewisburg? Lewisburg was 84, 85. And then from there I went to Petersburg and from Petersburg I went to Ashland, Kentucky, and then I went to Raybrook. The feds move you around as your time starts to go down.

What's the trick to being left alone in prison? You know, the thing about prison is your currency in prison is respect. If you treat other people with respect and you carry yourself with respect, by and large, people will leave you alone. I remember I was locked up originally with these guys who were part of the Brotherhood of Eternal Love, which was a bunch of guys from, they were white rosters that they were smuggling pot in from Jamaica. And when I met them, they said, look, stay away from gambling, from homosexual activity, and drugs.

If you stay away from those three things in prison, you're going to be all right. Yeah, but that's all the fun you can have. Jim had two out of three. Sometimes it's forced on you, isn't it? I had to give up my girlfriend, I had to give up pot. So, uh, if you carry yourself, uh, like,

you're not going to take any shit, but you're not trying to come, the people usually won't bother you. That's right. Yeah, but now, now, if, like, Jared, uh, from Subway recently, because he's in there for, uh, molestation, if you're a child molester, you do get fucked with IMAG no matter what you do. If you're a child molester or you're a rat or you're an informant, then you've got to

have problems. No question. I probably would just tell the ward if people hassled me and I would let them know that I'm friends with the guards. Then you'd be sure to get killed. Demographics have changed. What do you feel? I'm curious So what do you feel?

I'm curious. What do you feel about legalizing other drugs? Do you think they should legalize heroin? I think they should legalize all drugs. All drugs. I mean, I don't think that it's a law enforcement issue. It's really a medical health issue. I think that it's even been shown that marijuana use is going down in those states where it's legal.

But now I think you may be onto something with legalizing drugs, but we will, as a society, think of what we'll lose. Breaking Bad, Scarface, some of the greatest films and TV shows of all time are based on drugs being illegal. That's true. I mean, it's a great, interesting, and fascinating world. I mean, it was a joke, but it's also true. I feel the same way about Hitler.

Did a lot of bad, but look at the film and TV. I disagree with the bad part, but go ahead. I like this old stuff. It's great fodder for writing. Certainly, it's worked well for me. What about women?

What about women? Were women in hookers? Arizona State? Is that a big part of the drug kickpin lifestyle? Well, you know, actually, there were. I mean, the girls were incredible. But the most fun I had in prison was when I was here in Metropolitan Correctional Center, which is the federal holding facility that's right over here.

There were women in that jail. And in those days, you could actually have little meetings with these women from time to time. Really? Yeah, so that was... Would you have to pay a guard? Sex in jail. You have to pay a guard, right? You pay the guard or you just get a job down in the kitchen and the

girls are down there. That's where the knives are. That's interesting. That's where the knives are. You probably lower your standards, though, when you're in jail. Like a girl that you might not fuck out of jail, you'd injail you. Like a girl named Dave. That's true. But there were some hot ones in there, I must say. Oh, there were?

Yeah. Puerto Rican guards. By a show of hands, has anybody here done time? Nick? No. I did one night. You did one night for what? One night.

I was doing a radio stunt with Louis Black. We spent the night in jail together because there were naked girls on the bus and they pulled us over. And we had to shit. That was the worst part was not having a comfortable place to shit. Well, you know, the worst part of it, and I have to say where I was, they would inspect your asshole sometimes two or three times a day. I mean, that would— No, I don't like my asshole fumbled with. We joke about it. Two or three times a day. I mean, that would... No, I don't like my asshole fumbled with. We joke about it.

Two or three times a day? In some of these places. Just to fuck with you. Did any guys try to get frisky? Who's the warden? Paul Lentz? Right. Did any guys try to get frisky?

No, but seriously, would you have to put your foot down and go, no? No, you know, I had a situation once where I was up at Otisville, which is right here in New York. And I was on my way to the recreation yard in the morning. Had a pair of shorts on, a t-shirt. And this guard comes running out and he grabs me and stops me and says, are you wearing underpants? I looked at him and I go, what? What are you talking about?

He said, have you got underpants on? I said, well, who wants to know? And he goes, the associate warden just asked me to come out and check and see if you've got underpants on. He said, what are you, about? He said, have you got underpants on? I said, well, who wants to know? And he goes, the associate warden just asked me to come out and check and see if he got underpants on. He said, what are you, out of your mind? He just wanted to see. And I said, yeah, I got underpants on. So I had to pull down my pants, my shorts,

and show him that I had underpants on. Because apparently they had women guards that were coming into the institution, and they didn't want guys walking around with their Johnsons hanging free. Oh, okay. They didn't want the women guards to get too excited. Wow. Okay, so he didn't want guys walking around with their Johnsons hanging free. Oh, okay. They didn't want the women guards to get too excited. Oh, wow. Okay, so he didn't want to see your dick. He legitimately had to ask.

Okay, I thought that was just a ruse by him. I'm like, what a clever move by the guy. That's the absurdity of being in prison, man, when they can ask you if you've got underpants on and look up your ass. That's how bad it gets. What is the thing? There are guys that actually fuck the female guards.

How does that happen where a guy can talk his way into a guard's panties? That's got to be an amazing rep. Actually, here at MCC, the female guards were running a prostitution ring for a while. For $200, they would come into your cell after lockdown and give you

a blowjob or whatever your choice was. But if you're a male guard, it's very dangerous to fuck females because they save the common. They threaten to sue you. That's a dangerous thing. Sex in jail is a... It's rape, right? It's legally considered rape if you're a male guard. But every female guard now on TV is gay.

Every episode of Lockup I watch, it's always like a, you know, butch type. Thanks. We in comedy, we're all stand-up comedians, except for Noam and Kristen. But we make a lot of, well, I do anyway, a lot of comedic hay out of the whole prison rape thing. I don't know, is that hack, everybody? No, we did it with the De Niro scene in the movie yesterday.

But how exaggerated or not exaggerated is that? I think it's exaggerated. Look, I was in the federal system and people will say that it's worse in the state, some of these state institutions, but I think there is a lot more talk about it than there is actual rape going on in prison.

Look, there are obviously a number of people who are locked up who are bisexual for lack of a better... and because there's only men in there, there are obviously a number of people who are locked up who are bisexual, for lack of a better, and because there's only men in there, there are fucking other men. But if you're not into that way of life and you make that clear, they're going to leave you alone. Even if it's not a way of asserting power over another guy? I'm sure that that happens, but I don't think it's as widespread as it's made out to be. I think a lot of that has to do with the fear factor of trying to scare people out of going to prison.

Yeah, I'd be more afraid of getting beaten up. Beaten up. Yeah. Once you were locked up, is that when you decided, okay, that's it? Or was there a time where you thought, I'm going to start, you know, once I get out, I'll kick it up again? Or was that pretty much ended your career? Well, the interesting thing is that I was a writer before I went to prison. As I said, I was involved in the founding of High Times Magazine,

and I had written for Rolling Stone and other publications. So always in the back of my mind, there was this idea that ultimately I'm going to write about this. And I was very interested in the whole political movement of ultimately legalizing marijuana. So when I got arrested, I thought, and it was a very dramatic arrest. It happened out in Los Angeles. I was in this hotel, and I was walking through the lobby with a guy that I thought was a friend of mine. And all of a sudden, I see these guys leaping over the desk and pulling guns, and they were all around us. So at that point, I was like, okay, this is it.

Now I'm going to prison, and I'll go back to doing what I was really supposed to be doing all these years, and writing. Did you write in prison? You must have wrote a ton. I did. I wrote a novel that got published in 1990. No kidding.

Do you guys feel like all of a sudden, like a real man sat down at this table? Hey, fuck you, man. I just fought Rush Howard Traff, diggerhead, cocksucker. Do you feel that way? Well, it's amazing how we ask men, guys who've been in prison, we ask these fucking girly questions. Did they try to touch your honey?

It's a world we can't comprehend. Your definition of a man is somebody who went to fucking prison. No, I don't mean just being in prison. I mean, taking risks, living with risks, physical danger. Look, you're a creature of the suburbs. That's a different question. Are we jealous of his life? I don't need this guy to make me feel like not a man.

If you can change a tire, you make me feel like not a man. That's how far down I am on the scale. There was a lot of temptation after I got out to go back into that world. But then again, when you're facing life with no parole, if I had been busted again, it would have been automatic life. I married, actually, a woman by the name of Kim Wozencraft, my first wife, who had written a book called Rush about... Oh, yeah.

Yeah, she was an undercover narcotic, Scott. And she'd gone to prison. So we had that experience together. Wasn't that a movie, eventually? We had a movie out of it, yeah, she was an undercover narcotic cop. And she'd gone to prison. So we had that experience together. Wasn't that a movie eventually? We made a movie out of it, yeah. Jennifer Jason Lee? Jennifer Jason Lee, right. Yeah, hell of a movie, too.

What was the name of that film again? Rush. Rush, baby. Good movie. Oh, that sounds like a good movie, baby. Yeah, it was a good movie. But, Noam, you're quite right. You are a creature of the suburb, and that's what you are.

I did a night in prison. No shame in it. Well, no, I mean, not time, time. But, you know, I mean, I was arrested for felony assault. Not just the prison. I was arrested for felony assault. I cut a dude's head open with a blade. Just living a life of danger, really.

Let's be honest, you were a barber. Physical danger? No, no, real shit. Well, you know, I have performed for all black audiences. There is somewhat of a dangerous component there. Are you familiar with stand-up, by the way? You know, we have a club right downstairs if you'd like to go. You seem like a mild-mannered guy.

He's got the bearing of a military man. Yeah, he's what we call impassable, I think. Is that the word? Noam, you have a good vocabulary. I don't know that word. Maybe I might have made it up. I always thought of that as a large mountain. But, you know, you seem very thoughtful and measured.

Well, thank you. I take that as a compliment. He's a writer, Waters. He's a real man, and you're half a broad. But I wonder if you've ever been to a comedy, a stand-up comedy show. He doesn't want to watch a filthy comedy. You can take him down now. You want to take him to see the comedy show?

Yeah, I'd love to go down and see the show, for sure. It would be our pleasure. All right, we're just about out of time. I would be remiss, Noam, by the way, as artists, this affects the Screen Actors Guild after President Ken Howard died. Seriously? Yeah. Ken Howard, White Shadow? White Shadow.

He was a SAG after President. Him and Joe Garagioli, you know, they come in threes. But so we're all in SAG, I believe. Well, Noam's in the Shish Kebab Union. 77, 71. Noam is the Hummus 205 local.

In Memorial. He was 71 years old. Baba Ganoush, 6902 local. Teamsters. So I want to just know if we could just ask. You said a Teamsters. Where can we look forward to seeing this show?

Well, what you can do is buy the book. The book again, the title and everything. Smugglers. Smugglers Blues. Smugglers Blues. That's also out right now. George, is there a good song? Yes, there was a George Soros.

Is it available on Kindle? It is available. I don't know if it's available on Kindle yet. Are you going to read the audio book? I am going to read the audio book. He's got a great voice. Wonderful. You'd be great.

And there was a big piece in the Sunday Daily News, a big two-page spread about the book. About the book. So the TV show is still in development, or is that? It's in development. I did a TV show called street time i don't know if any of you ever saw that was on showtime for three years oh okay start terrence howard and rob yeah sure my wife used to watch it was about parole and people coming out of prison on parole

i created that show and ran that was a showrunner so ultimately smugglers blues but you know now because of the success and huge success of of Breaking Bad, the networks are like, oh, there's too much drug stuff out there. We're not really interested. Well, too much drug stuff is a phrase I've never uttered. I'll tell you that. I have one other question. I can't get enough of that shit.

Would you rate the average IQ of the people that you were associated with to be higher or lower than the average IQ and people in other businesses or things like that well the particular group that I was involved with which was called the so-called hippie mafia it was mostly white middle-class people who had been involved in psychedelics and in cannabis smuggling they were a different category of criminal from, say, bank robbers or street thugs. Bright guys. Very bright guys.

Yeah, exactly. White guys. But people that are good at that generally tend to be I think it's pretty much like other curves in other businesses. The people that tend to be better at the thing are generally relatively bright people. That's what I would think. They'd have to be pretty bright to...

I've been around drug deals, yeah. And marijuana, I would think, is a little more rarefied than, say, your crystal meth, even though Walt White notwithstanding, who is a... I'd say it's the opposite. I would say marijuana...

You would say marijuana is low-end IQ-wise? No, no, no, no. I'm not saying IQ-wise either one. I'm just saying there's a lot of marijuana... Marijuana's half the cartel business. I thought you were saying that there's less business. No, I was saying that marijuana people probably are smarter than your crystal meth people.

Why is that? Well, I just think of marijuana as just sort of a more high-end kind of a thing. No, no, no, not big-time marijuana smuggling. You're talking about guys selling, you know, nickel bags on the sidewalk. Yeah, that's a different breed. But big-time marijuana smuggling, you get locked up for a long time. Well, you do, but it does tend to attract people of a higher

caliber. The thing about it is it requires a great deal of planning and logistics, and that was the fascinating part of it. It was like playing chess, but with real life and moving stuff around, trying to figure out how to get 15,000 pounds of hashish

from the Bacaw Valley in the middle of a civil war in Lebanon. To go off to Massachusetts. These guys are talking about sets. I'm explaining to them that I'm not that impressed with actors. I'm not that impressed with fucking show business. There was an, oh, you're raining on the thing. That I'm impressed with. You know why? Because it's impressive. He didn't

hit a mark and take cashews real well. You need to develop a board game. It's tremendous. These are the people on the best risk. The people in this country are always hollering about show business. It's not that fucking impressive. People in this country do love drug dealers

too. Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad is a thing and the guys getting autographs in the street. You could be a fucking retard, fall off a television set and people are like, can I get an autograph? You can win a war in Afghanistan, and nobody knows who you are. Listen to me. I know what I'm talking about. Go ahead, Noah.

You're the boss. We went a few minutes over just enough time so they can cut out Dan's remarks. About the movie. I want to apologize about my remarks about the movie. I didn't hear anything. I was trying to promote a conversation. This is fascinating. This is something.

This is a masculine experience. An actor plays a guy. Everybody's talking about him. He's the real guy that they're playing. Richard, what was your major? It bothers me. De Niro played him. Who is this guy?

Give him up in the last three minutes. I got excited. What was your major at Arizona State? English. Oh, it was English. Okay. French literature. Actor.

Plays the guy. Everybody's jerking off an actor. We're all, I don't think. People got to get perspective. I don't think anybody would be. Bob. Plays the guy. Everybody's jerking off an actor. We're all, I don't think. People got to get perspective. I don't think anybody would be. Bob Denver was a smart guy. He was. I don't think anybody would be unimpressed with this gentleman to my left.

Listen to me. People are jerking off goofball actors. I'm not saying great ones. I'm saying in general. You've got real men doing real things that we should attribute some of that reverence for. Okay? Go ahead. I'm right.

Now go ahead. I see your point, but I think it's overstated. It's not overstated. He's got a John Voight quality to him. Yeah, that's very good. John Voight is from Massachusetts. I'm from the North Shore. Wellesley, believe it or not.

From Wellesley. A rich suburb. I know. No shit. I have no excuse for having chosen a life of crime. No, maybe that's the exact excuse. Your excuse is you're a real man. That's why you didn't become an actor. I love that. You're a real man. Hey, take it easy. Okay, maybe that's the exact excuse. Your excuse is you're a real man. That's why you didn't become an actor.

You're a real man. Hey, take it easy. Okay, sorry, Nick. My bad. I played football for a couple years.