The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Sam Morril Letter

Episode Date: July 21, 2016

Sam Morril Letter

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. My name is Noam Dorman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. I'm here with my co-host, Mr. Daniel Natterman. And we're joined right now at the comedian table by Elizabeth Furiati, our general manager, and the most feared woman in comedy, Ms. Estee Adharam. We should mention that Chris Montella could not join us tonight for work-related reasons. Thank you, Natterman. Well, she has fans out there that wonder where should mention that Chris Montella could not join us tonight for work-related reasons. Thank you, Natalie. Well, she has fans out there

that wonder where the hell is Chris Montella. Everyone wants to know where you were. I mean, you know, like you see the news, if somebody's not there, they say so-and-so

has the night off or whatever. So, right now, we asked Esty to join us. Tom Popp has texted me. We asked Esty to join us because Lena Dunham. Yes, of Girls' Fame. Of Girls' Fame,

produced by Judd Apatow, has interviewed Esty for an online For Lenny Letter, which is her online newsletter. Feminist. It's released twice a week. Right into my guest. So, hi, Lisa.

So, unfortunately, I haven't read the interview. My wife read the interview and she said it's fantastic. So, unfortunately, I haven't read the interview. My wife read the interview. She said it's fantastic. So, Esty, what is it like to be becoming so famous? I'm Lena Dunham and Judd Apatow. Taylor Hackford. Taylor Hackford.

It's just the beginning. No, I'm just saying you don't know. You walk up. Esty, I move the microphone closer and she moves away. It reminds me of my bedroom. Anything in this shape close to my mouth makes me very nervous. Esty's working blue. The general, it seemed to me the interview,

Lena's a feminist, I guess. What does feminist mean? I'm not sure. That's a good question. I think it means that they feel that because they are women, they are disadvantaged and they're fighting for an equal playing field. That's a decent definition as I can come up with. But it seemed like Lina was trying to push you in a direction, wondering...

Well, when I first met Lina with Judd, she was watching me. I didn't even realize that she was. And she asked me to participate and have an interview done for her feminist newsletter. And I told her I am not a feminist. I don't consider myself as a feminist. And that's how the interview came about. And I still don't think that I'm a feminist. I think people, women, that are in positions where they feel they don't get a fair shake,

claim more feminism. You know what I mean? Or lack of privileges and anti-feminism, feminist... You're saying people use it as a crutch? I don't say it's a crutch because in certain areas it certainly might be valid.

I never encountered that. I never looked at it as a feminist issue. And you work for a sexist, believe me. Don't ever think otherwise. Yeah, but a fair one. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

A fair one. A pervert, not a sexist, I think there's a difference. I don't see any similarity between the sexist. Go ahead. Well, the way I look at it, if I would be held back because I'm a woman from doing what I want to do, then I probably would feel the same way. Right. But I don't.

I never did. Never, ever, ever in any job that I've ever had. And that includes what I mentioned in the article was in the army. You have to look up pictures because there's pictures of Esty like scantily clad holding a machine gun. I was in uniform.

Not scantily clad. That just shows you that you didn't even look at it. I saw the pictures. You look like the pictures in a locker room calendar, you know, of a soldier. There's one where she has like a rifle. And a negligee. No, no, no. You're going to have the whole Israeli army on your tail.

There's one where she's holding the barrel of the rifle up to her lips. There is not. I think she did ask you a question about women, booking women in comedy. Yeah, because there is a sentiment that there is not enough women in comedy. Oh, if I hadn't.

We hear it all the time. All the time. And I don't, I didn't agree with her. And I mentioned that I'm not going to book a woman for the sake of booking a woman for the sake of booking a woman

if the person is not funny just as I wouldn't book a Chinese person a different nationality or whatever there's got to be

one criterion in what I do is to look for the funny let me ask you this question if there were five women

that killed I mean there are but say five women that there were five women that killed, I mean, there are, but say five women that really killed on stage, wanted to work the same night. Now, there has been shows where it's all men. So would you book a show that's all women? If all the women were killers,

would you... Killers? Absolutely. Even, would you not be somewhat concerned that the audience looking at the show might think, oh, I don't want to see an all-women show? Then, luckily for us, is that we have minimum of three and maximum of ten shows a night. So I can always book as needed, based on the material, based on the energy, whatever. I don't have to put them all together. Right, so you would be somewhat hesitant to book all women

if you could maybe make it a mixture. Or is that not fair to say? It's fair to say. It's fair to say. But if I don't have it, I'm not going to just put somebody because of their gender or religion or creed or whatever. There's got to be funny.

That's it. Unless they have a really good resume or they're hot, in which case. Yeah. Then, yeah. Then I have to deal with my boss. Who shall remain nameless. Unless they've been on The Daily Show or SNL or America's Got Talent or something like that. And then we have to make compromises then.

Yeah. I mean, listen. If I book a show, it's got to be, has some kind of a reason. I want it to appeal to the audience. Audience. Yeah. And so, you know, but I book it. My main criteria is to look for the funny.

That's all. Esty and I have talked about this before. And we've gotten complaints. So we get complaints regularly actually especially when we don't have women or don't have enough women or don't, you know all we can tell them is that

listen, you think you didn't like this you would have really been unhappy with the show you would have seen if we had put on the best available woman at that time obviously whoever was available was not as good as anybody we put on Do you ever get complaints

that there wasn't enough racial diversity? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Usually, like, there's not enough people of color. Yes. Everything. All the time. Everything. You cannot... What about the Asians? They don't complain, right? Everybody complains. They're respectful.

Not always. No. Not always. But that's not even the point. The point is, you can't please everybody all the time. So you always will find an element or a person that's not going to be happy. The truth of the matter is that we book it fair. We book it funny. And the attendance for each of the show is reflecting it. Do you understand?

People, I'm sure, always felt the right to complain. Yeah. But we live in a time now where people really feel that they have a right to complain. If we didn't meet their quota of women on the show, their fucking outrage. It was like we did something to them. I mean, well beyond just like, I really didn't like it. It's easier to send an email

in the old days you had to send a letter or come in person. So I think that... Now you could do it totally. But the truth of the matter is that we have now a reputation. And the reputation is that we produce funny shows.

What about the chicken? We used to make chicken. Also, this woman, her husband really enjoyed me. We're not even married yet. We're not even married yet. We're talking about Esty now. Esty's Lenny Letter.

Oh, it was a great interview. I loved it. Hi Marina. I liked that Lena Dunham's intimidated by Esty. I kind ofny Letter. Oh, it was a great interview. I loved it. Hi, Marina. I did. I liked that Lena Dunham's intimidated by Esty. I kind of liked that part of it. I don't know. I thought it was cool. She really liked it.

What about those hot pictures of Esty with the gun? Oh, my God. Esty, you're a badass. I knew you were a badass, but to see those photos were ridiculous. Esty did mention something. Lena did bring up equal pay for equal work, I believe. Yeah, but the big issue now in Hollywood is the actresses claim that they make less money than the actors. Right. But you did mention that you were unhappy with your current salary. I did not say that.

What I said, it's always nice to make more money, but as long as I have for my living expenses and what I really need, I'm happy. That's what I said. That's probably more accurate. Yeah, I think that's what she said. That's exactly what I said. The truth of the matter is, yeah, it would be nice's probably more accurate. Yeah, I think that's what she said, not her mother. That's exactly what I said. The truth of the matter is, yeah, it would be nice to have more money. All right, we heard you the first time. But if I can't buy food or if I can't live what I do or whatever,

then it's a different issue. So I don't have an issue with the pay. Do they pay actresses less money? I mean, it's a different issue. So I don't have an issue with the pay. Do they pay actresses less money? Well, that's... I mean, it's hard to believe. That's an issue that's beyond me.

They have a union. Don't they have a union? No, no. The union, the scale is the same for men and women, but when you're at a big name and you negotiate it,

everybody negotiates differently. The big story was David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson and the pay gap between them. Well, you know, if the producers... I've heard of David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson and the pay gap between them. I've heard of David Duchovny. I haven't heard of the other person. She's pretty famous.

She's pretty successful. She's been on a couple of hit shows. Whatever. I'm telling you as an everyday guy. You're right. He's a bigger name. Absolutely. So how much you pay?

A bigger name is supposed to make the same as a smaller name? You go when you negotiate. If you're a bad negotiator, then unfortunately you might make less. If you're a bad negotiator, then unfortunately, you might make less even if you're worth more. Meryl Streep just said that for the Devil Wears Prada, they offered her something

and she was just like, no, I'm not feeling this. And she said she just learned how to negotiate for herself. And so that's why she's making the money she's making now. So maybe you do just have to be

a better negotiator or have a better agent. Yeah, it should be your agent. It should be Meryl Streep. Just be your own advocate and not settle for less. Look, if the producers think you're worth X amount of dollars, they'll pay X amount of dollars. It's not only that.

Let's say a production, it's a really quality piece, but the production doesn't have the money. Would you walk away or would you work for less? Because you want to do this. It's like Dwayne Wade. That's a different question. It is.

Like Dwayne Wade. The respect thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. What's that? It's like Dwayne Wade. What's Dwayne Wade? Dwayne Wade played for the Miami Heat and he's taken pay cuts his whole career.

And then this year, when it was his time to get paid, Pat Riley decided not to because he's 34, and he didn't think he'd actually leave, and he did. He went to his hometown Chicago Bulls. Now, Liz, it can't escape anyone's attention as a woman. Yes. And probably the most prized... Wearing that low-cut shirt. Prized employee

here at the Comedy Cellar. Yes. What's your point? I don't know. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. What's Noam paying you? She replaced a man who did half the job making twice as much money as her.

Probably. Probably. No, Liz. I'm kidding, Noam. Liz was down in Florida and Noam, she was down in Florida. She had quit the Comedy Cellar.

She went down to Florida. You courted her. Courted her back here. And to get her back here must have cost a pretty penny, I would imagine. All of it. All of it, not a penny. It wasn't cheap. All of it.

But can we get back to the, really, Dan, you're really making me uncomfortable here. Yeah, you encourage me now to step up. Everybody who works for me, I think, gets paid fairly. They do. Everybody who works for me, I think, gets paid fairly. And the women, I'd say, probably make, on average in this place, probably make $80 to $20, the percentage of the payroll here. Probably. $80 on weekends, $20 on weekends. Let's face it.

It started with your father, who also was with the same political. But he was a sexist on steroids. But every person in an important position in his day and yours are women. Yeah, well... They're all women. I tried to get away from that, but... But it didn't work.

It didn't work. And I agree with Esty in the interview. I don't think it's because you're a woman or not a woman. It's just do your job and do it well. It doesn't work. And I agree with Esty in the interview. I don't think it's because you're a woman or not a woman. It's just do your job and do it well. It doesn't matter what your gender is. You see, the Hollywood thing is hard for me to believe. In the workplace, there is the thing I've experienced. The only thing I keep making sure with Liz is I hope your marriage isn't too happy, is it?

Because I don't want you to have children because then she's going to go. I have a dog. Okay, I'll have a child. Stranger things have happened. So, what color will he be, Esty? I don't know. You know Esty's taste. You don't know anything about my taste.

But in the workplace, there is the issue of women leaving a career to have children, to have families. And it's disruptive. But it's biology. You cannot help it. No, but it will ripple in some way into what people are ready to pay. That may not be legal, but but in reality you have two people she's a young 25 year old girl she just got married she wants

maybe she'd pay the guy it might have to pay him a little bit more but at least we don't have to worry about him staying for three years and leaving you know but this is all way of thinking I remember your father said but the man is supporting the household nowadays yeah he did

no I mean that you know now people think differently The man is supporting the household. Nowadays, women... Yeah, he did. Shut up, Nestor. No, I mean that, you know. Now people think differently because women are many times the head of the household. Yes. So it's a different criteria. But when I worked in a law firm, women would leave unscheduled, just get pregnant and and leave and the firm would freak out they could be in the middle

of a big case in New York Times that would piss me off too that would really piss me off right so you get burned like that a couple times as a partner and then you try to avoid

the issue altogether maybe by and that's probably illegal and I'm not defending it I'm just saying I can see how that but in Hollywood where everything is

a production where you're saying how much is it going to cost me and how much am I likely to get a return on my dollar? You can be racist, sexist, whatever it is. That's what it comes down to. And it comes down to how much money can this woman probably guarantee me in the box office? And there's not that many women who can guarantee a blockbuster. There's not that many women Will Smiths.

You know, Will Smith is worth a lot of money, not because he's a man, because if he's in your movie, the floor of that movie is going to... Well, even still, the floor is pretty high. Risk and reward. I mean, it's just common sense. No, you make a point of money and what they'll put money behind.

I mean, the female Ghostbusters, it probably costs a lot less to make than if they were going to do it with Seth Rogen and Jonah Hill. Because it's a lot riskier. It is riskier. It's a lot riskier. You could not afford to... You couldn't take the risk. If you had to pay those salaries, you'd be like, you know what?

I just don't have enough confidence in this because I don't know if a female Ghostbusters is going to go. I think that Melissa McCarthy is getting top dollar. Oh, that's true. She is. And she wasn't Ghostbusters. Oh, that's true. She is. She is. She's a draw bigger than Will Smith. I don't know. You say it. She is.

If you say so. She's no Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp. I wouldn't pay for Brad Pitt. I would pay for Melissa. You pay for Angelina Jolie. No. I don't like her. Is Melissa McCarthy really as big a movie star as Brad Pitt?

Well, anyway, so the point is that Esty's hit the big time. Lena Dunham has interviewed Esty Adhiram, and Esty came out the winner. And she wanted Esty to like her. That was my favorite part. She very badly wanted Esty to prove her. And Esty was like, yeah. She came to give me a ring. She tried to buy Esty.

I laughed out loud when I read that part. But let it be known, we pay female comics the same lowly wage that the male comics here. Everybody. And we believe in merit system in everything

unless it's affirmative action and then we believe in affirmative action even despite merit. Right, Dan? Okay, so I don't. I know you don't. I'm being sarcastic. Everybody says we believe in merit system, even despite merit. Right, Dan? Okay, so I don't. I know you don't. I'm being sarcastic.

Everybody says that we believe in merit system, merit system, except when we don't believe in a merit system because we don't think the numbers of, when we do, the numbers don't come out right and the ratios aren't right, in which case we don't believe in a merit system. So nobody really even knows how to be consistent. Sam Morrell, we invited Sam Morrell. We got an angry letter from a customer who saw

following every show in the morning, every customer gets an email. How did you like your experience? How was the food? How was the show? Tell us anything you want. And it says, please be blunt. It says, please be blunt. There's the trigger point. That's where she said, okay, I'll be blunt. And from time to time,

we do get complaints, usually about the cheeseburger being overdone or Natterman. The staff is awesome. Generally Natterman. Or Outside Steve. Outside Steve gets a lot. The jaded door guys who work outside who have trouble. And for the record, the joke that really set her off,

I did it here and it crushed. And then I did it here, and it crushed. And then I did it around the corner, and it did pretty well. I mean, not quite as well as here, but it did well. All right, let's read the letter. This was a joke. And discuss. Okay. The letter explains it, I guess.

Yeah, I think it's pretty self-explanatory. All right, hit it. Not to mention her name. No, don't mention her name. Or email address or phone number. Okay, it says, okay, you want blunt, I'll be blunt. I had the worst comedy experience

of my life at your venue last night. A disgusting person. I won't call him a comedian because he's not humorous. By the way, that's what I'm calling my next album,

Not Humorous. Perfect. A disgusting person. Sam Morrell took the stage and spent the first few minutes of his act disrespecting

Lane Graves the two year old child who was murdered by the alligator at Disney is murder the right word? no it is not no it's not

murder murder it's not murder I think assassinate assassinate assassinate it was a tragic accident it's tragic

of course it's tragic murdered anyway he even cracked and it says in quotes I I like that, jokes. Like, quote jokes. She wouldn't even let me have one serious. In other words, without quotes, they'd still be jokes, but just bad jokes.

But they're even, you can't, you have to have quotes. They're not even jokes. He even cracked jokes. By the way, Lisa made a Holocaust joke right before she brought me up. She made a joke about having cum on her chest in the Holocaust Museum. You know, more people have died in the Holocaust than by Disney alligators. We'll get to that. We'll complain about that.

Okay. All right. I don't mean to throw Lisa under the bus. It's a funny joke. No, she knows. She's under the bus, all right. I get all those emails as well. Okay, Noam.

Hit it. He even cracked jokes about his parents and his funeral. I have never in my life been so offended and repulsed by someone. I immediately left and stopped to tell your staff why. They followed me to make sure my drinks were being paid. That's your staff, all right. Not because I just had to listen to a sick man trying to use a child's death as a pathetic shock value attempt at being a comedian.

Furthermore, upon speaking with friends who worked for a comedy club for over 10 years, I learned that your venue had to know his set prior to him taking the stage, which meant someone approved of this garbage. We never do. You should be ashamed of yourselves. The girl who was introducing all the acts simply replied to my outrage with, different people are offended by different things. Oh, really? I would expect all human beings would be offended by a sicko making jokes about a two-year-old baby's tragic death,

saying his mother probably said, later, gator, at his funeral. By the way, that's out of context too. But that's still funny. It still holds up. I tell you, it reminds me of the Chuckles of Clown episode of Mary Dallimore. She left out the part that I said, if we start arming babies this might stop. And she left out the part

where I said ISIS is taking credit for the alligator killing the baby. So, pretty absurdist take. I mean, it's not like a very, it's obviously I'm not endorsing a death. I'm mocking how awful it is. And the premise is that I say with all the terrible things in the news,

I wish we could go back to simpler times when kids were getting eaten by alligators. That's how I set it up. Obviously, I'm not saying it's nice. It's joking at how terrible things have been the last week or so, you know? Can I finish the letter? I'm sorry. Don't get so defensive. Well, that was a good explanation.

I don't either. I have posted about this on every social media account I own and asked people to share it. The comedian himself replied to me to say, pretty strong act, huh? I love that. Tonight was my first time trying that one out, which I'll stop it. That's not true. I said, I'm working that one out, but it was something like, but the structure was good, I said. But if she thinks it was the first time trying it out, why does she think we knew you were going to say it? Anyway, what a complete and utter pathetic excuse for a human.

He doesn't deserve to breathe the same air or live on the same planet as that precious little boy's family. That was my favorite line. That sounds like the Republican convention. That's my favorite line to be in.

I don't know why. Sounds like Ted Cruz. Make Disneyland safe again. So there's my review. The other acts were fine. I really enjoyed the staff girl who introduced everyone.

Lisa. Staff girl. Staff girl Lisa. Until I received her heartless, rude response to my feedback. She can fly a kite, too. He asked Dan Natterman with Delightful.

Fly a kite is the weirdest insult. This is not the first time. Do you remember Paul Provenza used to have a joke about people were jumping over the fence in the zoo with the polar bear and the bear maul, one of the people. And then he was making fun that the bear is taking the guy's sneakers, shoelaces, and flossing. So it's not like it wasn't done before. And it's true. Everybody has different sensibility. My feeling is that this woman shouldn't go to a live comedy show.

There's something that's going to offend her no matter what. There's some people that stand-up, live stand-up comedy is not for them. Dan? All right. Here are the following. My thoughts are as follows. I agree that stand-up comedy is probably not for her. I will say...

Live. Live stand-up. Live stand-up comedy. Well, one could do an alligator joke on Comedy Central as well. No, but she claims that we had to know... Well, it doesn't have to be live. We don't go over anybody's material. Okay, that was Dan.

Liz? No, I'm not. You're saying it has to be live comedy. It doesn't have to be live. Just get past that. Go ahead. Personally, I don't joke about dead kids. I have certain limits that I impose upon myself.

No, I don't. I don't joke about specific examples of dead children. In a more general matter, I do have a joke about how I used to babysit, but one time I fell asleep and the kid drowned, and the tricky part was asking for the money afterwards. It's actually a joke I stopped doing when somebody complained about it. But that's also not a... It's not a specific kid that I'm referencing.

But even then I had a complaint, and I said, you know what? Fuck it. Why do I not joke about a specific dead child? Because, number one, I anticipate somebody will be upset about it. And my job is not necessarily to speak my... I mean, it depends how you... So his job is different than yours. My job is to please the audience.

And if I feel that this joke might offend somebody, you know, unless I think it's just so funny. But also, just personally, I just... I have personal limitations. I don't joke about Alzheimer, but if think it's just so funny, but also just personally, I just, I have personal limitations. I don't joke about Alzheimer, but if you want to joke about Alzheimer, God bless you. I don't joke about, uh, certain things, but if other people want to joke about them, I'm not condemning it. I'm just saying I wouldn't do it because I have, I do have certain limits about things.

Now I might joke about the alligator incident if the take was... When you said, oh, you know, remember similar times when kids just got... When all we had to worry about was kids getting eaten by an alligator? Yeah. That to me is something I might say because you're not making fun of the kid. You're making

fun of how horrible things are that even an alligator eating is considered not that bad by comparison. I guess. Or am I completely misreading you? I guess I just don't see any of it as making fun of the kid. Well, not making fun of, nah, not making fun of, making light of, perhaps.

Making light of the incident. I'm making light of the incident in the place where I'm making fun of an expression, see you later alligator. Part of my interview with Lena, she asked me, is there anything that defends me? And I said, my personal taste is I don't like Holocaust jokes. However, if Dave Attell, no, and I told her, you know, I am from a family, survivors of Holocaust, and I am uncomfortable with this. Maybe she survived alligator. Or cancer jokes. I she survived Aligot.

Or cancer jokes. I don't like that either. However, I did... Well, that could be that she had a child that was... One second. She... But I did point out that Atel is doing Holocaust jokes that are funny, that are not offensive. He can get away with it

because the way he is structuring the joke. So how do you feel about Sam? One second. And the same thing. Second. My bad. You're right. I'm happy I got in there.

Yeah. Either cancer jokes or anything that is sensitive. I might not like it. Okay. But if it's that, she asked me how about rape jokes. Yeah. And I said, why don't you come down and listen to Lynn Copland's doing a rape joke?

And if you don't laugh, I'll take you out to dinner. I guarantee you, it all depends how you present. Sam does rape jokes too. He got trouble for that also. But it all depends how you do it. Okay, now you... Sometimes you cannot be in their face. Okay. You've heard how Sam did his joke about

the alligator. What is your verdict? I probably would go with your analysis. You can still talk about it, but find a different angle that's not going to make it sound as you're making

light of the child's death. That's the only thing. I don't think he made it sound like he's making light of the child's death. Right. That's the only thing. I don't think he made it sound like he's making light of the child's death. I think, you know, I think... Look at his face. I think this bitch is... I just got eliminated from a national TV show last night. Tonight, Esty doesn't like my jokes.

It hurts, you know? Can I get my opinion on this? I like your jokes last night. The TV show. But this doesn't mean you'll hold it against him. It's your personal taste is that you don't love the joke. But the audience is laughing hard. That's what's most important to you.

I also think... Can I... Oh, go ahead. Do you want to say something, Sam? I said that to Steve. Esty, one second. Go ahead. No, I just think that...

You know, agree to disagree. I don't think I was making light of the kid's death. I think... I think it... I worked it out over the weekend in Indiana, and then I did it here for the first time, and it killed every show in Indiana. So I was like... I think it's worked it out over the weekend in Indiana, and then I did it here for the first time, and it killed every show in Indiana. So I was like, I think it's a pretty safe,

I felt like a safe take to me. It didn't seem like a controversial take. I'm going to tell you in no particular way the thoughts I had about this. I think among most people, especially people who go to see comedy shows, people who are intelligent, they understand that if you're joking about this, you're just,

even though it's real, you're separating it out because of the ridiculousness of it and essentially the novelty of this thing, and you're making a joke about the ridiculousness of it, and somehow we're all able to put it aside from the real incident. We know that obviously somebody died, and we just laugh about it, and we don't think about the real incident, and I think that's fine. And I think you should keep doing the joke because very, very few people are going to be offended by it. Having said that, I was not happy with the ridicule that people gave this woman because as somebody said, that she may have some experience with children dying or whatever it is,

or just not quite get that. So she reacted in a human way to a joke about a young child. And if she said that to me, I'd say, listen, I'm sorry. I understand. I have children too. He really didn't mean that, but that's a kind of genre of comedy that people do here, and I have to warn you about that if you want to genre of comedy that people do here and you should have to warn you about that if you want to come in the future.

I understand where you're coming from, but if you saw the thing she was writing at me on Twitter, you'd be like, oh, this is... I'm only going by the letter. Right, right. If the thing she was writing me on Twitter were just... Yeah, but you probably egged her on. I wrote one line and she wrote about 50. Alright. And I think it's just... You're right. When people react that way,

we're less sympathetic because she was just so aggressive with like, here's how I feel, here's why I'm outraged, blah, blah, blah. Let's get to my main point. I think what happens, or what I'm afraid happens here, is that this complaint melds into the other, the big number of complaints we get about political incorrect topics. You shouldn't make fun of rape, You shouldn't make fun of race, whatever it is. And that I have no sympathy for. Because when you're making fun of those topics, you could be actually making a point. You're pricking social

sensibility. This is actually the job of a stand-up comic. This is not political correctness, what she's complaining about. This is an actual tragedy. An actual child died. And she's just not comfortable laughing along at a joke. Because in her mind, she's laughing at this child died. And maybe she had someone die in her family.

Or maybe she's just empathetic. So, you know, in a way, it's nice that it bothers her. It doesn't mean she's bad or anything. And I would be gentle in my judgment of her. It's understandable. I mean, there are subjects that offend me, and I just kind of, like, alright, I'm gonna... The joke's 45 seconds in. What offends you?

What offends you? Very little. That's a bullshit. Very little. I don't like... I mean, not jokes, but there are things that offend me. You like... What offends you is joke-stealing, hacks, that's what offends you. There's no subject that offends you. There's no subject that inherently offends me. Listen, I've told this story.

When my father was sick and dying of cancer, came to the table, and Nick DiPaolo finds out my father's dying, and he says to me, who gets the Lexus? Like, you know. But the thing is, but I could take that.

I understand. It's a joke. And also you admire that he feels that, or you like that he feels comfortable enough with you to make that type of joke, right? And I know that he was not, he was not making. You didn't like it. She didn't like it.

Well, that's a perfect example. And I'm his son. But Nick lives for that. And you got to, I mean, it's part of what you take with Nick. And I know that in no way did it mean he took it lightly that my father was dying. I know that. Right. But SD still didn't like it, you know, because in the end, you react viscerally to how you feel about that situation.

And if you really are... If you're just reacting to the fact that a child died and you just put out of your mind that it was an alligator, it's just a child got mauled, you know, it might upset you to hear a joke about it later, Gator. It is a little flippant, you know. It's funny. But don't stop doing it.

But here's another... I mean, my girlfriend was in an abusive relationship and I remember she posted the photos of it online to kind of out this guy photos of her being bruised

bruised on her legs and the next time I saw Mark Normand he said she's got great legs and I cracked up okay and that upset me

more than anything but like you know your friends oh it did upset you what happened to her but like, you know, your friends... Oh, it did upset you? Well, what happened to her, but no, but Norman's joke made me laugh. Of course it made me laugh. But it could have offended you, and who complained to you?

I know what happened to her bothered him. He's just, I think there's a separation between what actually bothers you and a joke. I mean, I... But a woman from the Midwest or wherever she's from can't necessarily... I was just in the Midwest doing that joke, and it killed. I think, you know, you can be offended, and you can also sit a joke out and then come back. I mean, the joke's 45 seconds. I don't understand being so happy to do it. Her reaction did seem disproportional.

I can understand somebody being upset by this. A child dying in a particularly horrific fashion, it must have been... I thought it was measured. What a complete and utter pathetic excuse for a human. Yeah, measured. You can go fly a kite.

Good day, sir. But that's one of the reasons why I would avoid that topic just because I don't want to fucking hear it. Yeah, but then you start avoiding every topic. And then you start avoiding every topic. Jan, hold on. Ryan Hamilton tells the story

we should get him to tell it on the air about somebody or somewhere he does his hot air ballooning bit and somebody got furious. You don't know what it's like, the hot air balloon, dude. Did you hear the part about the hot air balloon going into and somebody got furious. You don't know what it's like the hot air balloon, dude. Did you hear the part about the hot air balloon going into the Twin Towers?

That's the roast battle. Save it for the roast battle. Oh, I'm saving it. That offends me. That offends me. See, that's something that offends me. Lying about being

in the Twin Towers offends me, but that's not a joke. That's a character issue. out of it. Yeah. Well, so Noam, the issue is now

to respond to this woman. Yeah. And who's going to be in charge of that? Or are you just going to ignore the email? No, I'm going to write her. I'm going to write her back.

Noam's going to write her or Liz? Oh, let Noam do it. Go ahead. You want to do it? I mean, I'll respond, but I believe... Liz has no... I have no compassion for that.

What would your response be? Liz is not the person to do it. What would your response be? Honestly, I appreciate the fact that she was upset. I'm sorry that she was upset. But Sam has the right to say whatever he wants to say. And we're not going to censor him. He has the right to say it.

Of course he does. And she has the right not to like it. But she feels that the product was a bad product. But the people were laughing. I think it was good. Her husband didn't. So whether Sam has the right to say it is not the issue. The issue is, is there anything to her complaint?

It's her opinion, and it's an opinion. But is it possible? Okay, but Liz, let me ask you this question. Is it possible for a comedian to say something on stage so offensive that even you would agree they went too far? I mean, if a comedian went on stage and said, you know, these fucking Jews need to go in the ovens, maybe you'd agree with that.

Where's the joke? There was a joke in there somewhere. No, there isn't. Is it a well-constructed joke? Beginning, middle, well-constructed joke. What's that? If it was a well-constructed joke about how dumb black people were.

It was a beautifully constructed joke. It was a beautifully constructed joke about how, you know, hey, how do you stop a black guy? How do you kill a black guy? Hide his food stamps under his work boots. What if it was that joke? That's not a funny joke. That's not funny.

In your opinion, it's not a funny joke. But I would... In your opinion, it's not a funny joke. I think the consensus here is... So what's the criteria? That it's funny? That it's... What is the criteria precisely?

Is funny the criteria? Sam is a comedian here because he's an amazing comedian. But even an amazing comedian can have jokes that you don't find amazing. But I'm not talking about the alligator. So one lady... Funny is the criteria. I'm not talking about the alligator joke right now because I don't think it was that bad, although I wouldn't have done it.

I'm saying, is there a situation where you would say, yeah, the comedian kind of went too far, that was in poor taste that wasn't funny or will you defend the comedian no matter what can I answer that for her thank you I always make this analogy you're running around the bases the third base coach tells you to hold up you ignore the sign

you run home if you slide and you're safe you're safe you're a hero if you slide and get tagged out you're in fucking big trouble. You can joke about anything you want. If you get the laugh, you're safe at home plate. Nobody can say a fucking word to you. So that's your criteria. But can you imagine a situation

where you would say to a woman, yeah, the comedian, that was kind of an asshole thing to say and it wasn't funny. I mean, would you ever say that? No, because I'm not hypocrite enough to say that. I was laughing, but yeah. I wouldn't ever say, no, I don't think it's funny. What if nobody was laughing and it wasn't funny? Then I would say you're right.

It was offensive, but he was probably just trying something out. And comedians sometimes... So offensive and funny are... Or listen, or you know what? It may not be our views, but he's allowed to have his own views. And we'll support him and we'll give him a platform no matter what his views are. Getting back to the previous joke, he would starve to death if his food stamps

were under his work boots. That's the joke. You don't like that joke. You had to explain it. In this woman's defense, I'll say something in her defense. She didn't interrupt the show when she left. She got angry, but she didn't heckle or anything. So,. In this woman's defense, I'll say something in her defense. She didn't interrupt the show when she left.

She got angry, but she didn't heckle or anything. So, you know, in her defense, she wrote a letter. I mean, she could have handled this worse, you know? Yeah, I think... So, Noam, what is your response to this? I'm going to write essentially what I said,

that I... Well, first I'll answer the factual questions. No, we don't... We don't screen the material. I'll let Esty answer this. Is that true or not? I'll be here,

but I'm going to write. So that we don't screen his material. However, I won't hide behind that. Even if I had known what he was going to say, I wouldn't tell him

not to say it. And that, on the other hand, I'm a father and I can totally understand why you're offended, but in the world

of stand-up comedy, some comics push the envelope, and there's no clear rule that we can hand down, which would mean the same thing to each person, which could enable us to prevent

this kind of thing, so we can't even try. Who's doing the bomb right after the World Trade Center? Well, that turned out to not go over so well. It did. It was nothing. I was there. It did not go over well, SD.

Yeah, but it just, you can't bet at 1,000 when you take risks. Yeah. But this comedian used to have a thing where he strapped a bomb

to his, because he was like, Hood is Persian. So, like, the first show after, his name was Hood, and the first show after 9-11,

he was like, you know, Manny, I don't think I'm going to do my terrorist bombing thing. My father says, what's the matter with you?

You go out there. He goes out there and he does it. And it didn't go well. The thing is that you take risks. Some of it pays. It's a great,

if it works, it's a great payoff. But it did work. But if it doesn't work, it doesn't. But it worked. But it worked. And this is one voice in thousands.

No, I'm not talking about this specific joke. I'm saying, is there a scenario where you would side with a customer that complained that a joke was offensive? No. Is there any scenario? Yes, yes, yes. There's a scenario where if I had the same reaction as the customer, I would tell the customer, you know what? I was offended by that, too. I can't tell him not to say it, but I agree with you.

I don't blame you for being offended. I would totally say that. We don't censor anybody here. No, I know that. I would absolutely the cops, you know what, I was offended by that too. I can't tell them not to say it, but I agree with you. I don't blame you for being offended. I would totally say that. We don't censor anybody here. No, I know that. I would absolutely say that. But Noam is saying that they're... Well, look, let me tell you. Hold on.

She sounds like she needs a vacation. I'm thinking Disneyland. Let me make the ultimate point. The ultimate point is that there are comedians who do jokes that offend me, and I never tell them not to do them. What kind of stuff offends even Noam Dorman? I'm sure I got one or two in there. It's not subject matter.

It's tone. It's the tone. If I feel that there's some nastiness or hate behind them, or sometimes when they're making fun of somebody in the audience, it can make me uncomfortable, or various things. It's hard to predict. True. There's an alligator nearby.

But I would never tell the comedian not to do it because I feel like I'm overstepping my bounds. No? Imagine if I came up to you and said, Sam, that joke's offensive. Sam's got to go on? Don't do the alligator. Do it.

Do it. Later, Gator. See you later, Alligator. In a while, Crocodile. Anything else? Anything else about Crocodile Gate? Listen, you get those emails all the time, Natterman. All the time.

About everything. About rape, about Muslims, about women. Everything. About Kevin Brennan. No, I understand that. I'm just, but I asked the question if Noam would ever agree to any of these letters. And he said. Yeah, but look, the point is that. In the mic, I see.

People, most people. No, she's in the mic. Most people, when they come, and I come back to what I said before, to see live comedy show, there's a risk that they might be offended by one thing or another. We cannot censor the comics because then we chop the wings and the will to fly. We need to let people do, and if it doesn't work, drop it. If it works, great. And if they're offensive...

Then I leave the room. And if not going over, I would just stop booking them. And I probably wouldn't even tell offensive then I leave the room. And they're not going over I would just stop booking them. And I probably wouldn't even tell them because I found them offensive unless I felt I had a particular relationship with a comedian that could handle it. It's none of my business what your art is. I just get to decide

whether or not I want to book you or not. You do what you want and if it's compatible with my sensibility for my club I book you and if not, that's it. There's no judgment there. She's allowed to have her opinion. It's just an opinion. Just like it's just a joke.

We're all going to get over it. You disagree with what I'm saying? I never said it. No, I agree with everything Noam's saying. I believe that she's entitled to her opinion. I agree with Noam when he says he should have a little bit of compassion

for somebody that was upset by something unless she's being aggressive and disrespectful. And I agree that there might be jokes that even I don't like, but, you know,

I wouldn't want to censor anybody. So basically, everything Noam has said, I'm in accord with. And look at what used to pass, look at what used to pass. Look at what used to pass for not offensive.

Damon Wayans used to do Handyman, making fun of a retard every week. A retarded person. A retarded person. A retarded person on a national craze.

So they had t-shirts, Handyman on the t-shirts. And what was the joke? That he was retarded. Eddie Murphy, you always liked Eddie Murphy. The first track on his first record is called Faggots. Right. And he walks the joke? That he was retarded. Eddie Murphy, you always like Eddie Murphy. The first track on his first record is called Faggots.

Right. And he walks around there like a flamboyant. And this used to all pass for not offensive. So, you know, it's a moving target. Yep.

Yeah, that's absolutely true. Yeah. No, and by the way, you're not here next week. Is that correct? I'm in Maine next week. Oh, you're going on vacation. Yes.

Family vacation. My wife, I spent a lot of money on a swimming pool. A lot of money. And my wife promised me that if I did this, I would not have to take any more summer vacations. This is going to be our third week of summer vacation. This summer. This summer, this summer.

This summer. Ian Baggs. Ian Baggs. Hey, how you doing? Ian Baggs. He wants to sit down for a minute or two. We're wrapping it up here, Ian. Ian's a Canadian but L.A.-based comedian that I haven't seen literally in years.

What the hell were you doing in L.A. the whole time? Working. But you never came here? You never visited? You never Facebook friended me? We were never that close anyway. I get it. Sorry that I didn't call you.

I always had a certain affection for your Canadian folksiness. I know. You always yelled at me that I was Canadian every time I walked in the room. Well, you know. That's offensive, Natalie. That's offensive. Well, the Canadians, I love them, but they have to earn it. See, that's why I didn't call.

He's the best. He's like a big, big. Ian Bagg, if you don't know him, he's a great big. I don't know how much he weighs. You're like 4'10". Everybody's huge to you. Well, you got a point there. I am like a small turd.

I think you just take out the small in that conversation. No, I love the Natterman. Well, thank you, Ian. I had no idea you were around. Well, I'm exactly where you left me. Nothing changes. No girl. Upper East Side. Yeah, Upper East Side. Upper East me. Nothing changes. No girl. Upper East Side?

Yeah, Upper East Side. Upper East Side. Upper East Side, no wife, no kids. Upper East Side. Oh, that's sad. Are you a father? I am not, no. Okay.

Yeah. I'm married, though. Wife. Not now? Not now. What'd you do with the kid? Yeah, left him behind. All right.

Left him behind. They got to learn on their own, yeah. No, I thought that was a wonderful show, by the way. That's the kind of show I'm talking about, by the way. We need people to tell distasteful jokes more often, and we can talk about it. Well, that's true. I mean, Sam was nice enough to offend a customer so badly that she wrote a scathing email, and that helped us out. Okay, thank you very much.

Check out Esty on Lelena Dunham. Lennyletter, lennyletter.com. And what's our email for comments and questions podcast at comedyseller.com a special thanks to Sam Morrell way to go Sam

are we finished I think so okay good night everybody thank you bye