The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Skeleton Crew

Episode Date: April 8, 2022

Noam, Dan and Periel catch up: Dan gets to Vegas despite a cancelled flight, Louis CK's Grammy, Noam’s interview with The Hollywood Reporter about the slap, Justice Jackson, "Don't Say Gay" and more. 

This is live from the table recorded at the world famous Comedy Cellar. Coming at you on Sirius XM 99 Raw Dog and on the Laugh Button Podcast Network. Dan Natterman coming at you via Zoom from Las Vegas, Nevada at the Rio Hotel. I am performing all week at the Comedy Cellar in Las Vegas at the Rio Hotel. If you're in the Vegas area, come on down and see us. We have a great show this week. But let's get on with the podcast. We have Tom Dorman coming also via Zoom from his house at an undisclosed location in Westchester County, New York State. And Perrielle is in studio. And a shout out to Nicole Lyons. She's been very busy, but she is our sound engineer. And I usually don't include her

in the introduction, but I think maybe it's time. Anyhow, I don't know why Noam is not in studio, but he's in Westchester. I'm in Vegas. Why I'm not my son has the flu and I've been I've been taking care of him for the last few days. And now I've been taking some Tamiflu, you know, preventively prophylactically, as we say, and I feel like it's making me sick too. I don't know but but my son, you know, if I just to come in just for the podcast and then go home. I'd rather stay home with my son. No, but wait, sorry, before we get into more substantive matters, and maybe this is substantive,

I have to let you know just how loyal I am to the comedy seller. I woke up on Monday to come here to Las Vegas. And now maybe this is my own fault. I booked Spirit Airlines because airfare to Las Vegas is outrageous these days. And I heard Spirit's not as bad as they used to be. Anyway, they canceled my flight. So I said, well, I have to get out to Vegas. I have promises to keep. I have miles to go before I sleep and promises to keep, to quote Robert Frost. And I got out here. And at some expense, I'm not going to tell you how much.

And I don't want you to feel guilty and feel the need to reimburse me. That's not what it's about. You've been very good to me. Whether it was $300, whether it was $400, whether it was $400 plus $35 tax, it doesn't matter. The point is I did what I had to do to get out here and hopefully

Spirit Airlines will make it right. I doubt it. Hopefully somebody will do the right thing. But anyway, here I am in Las Vegas. The shows have been dynamite so far. So I'll knock on wood because I don't want, I hope it continues. But the crowds have been good.

The comics have been good and it's all been good. And Mark Cohen got you some weed and hookers? Mark Cohen's not a specialist in hookers. With regard to weed, I'm not a big weed smoker, as you may or may not know. But- What about hookers? But Mark's not a specialist in hookers

and I don't have the budget for hookers. Are they- Thanks to me. If you didn't blow it on that airfare, you what do hookers go for well i mean come on that what a hookers that's like saying what do cars go for i mean they can go for what does tesla cost the high end you know probably a couple grand for the hour an hour yeah i mean they quote by the hour but it's the hour or that portion thereof, you know, an hour or until you're done, whichever comes first, I guess. Now, when they charge a couple grand, is that for higher end services or just because she's hotter?

No, I get, you know, I mean, please don't think that I am like the expert on these matters. But what you heard on the street you know i i don't i'm not sure i think because they're hot or because i think sometimes if they're pornographic actresses of some renown they might charge money because you're getting somebody that you might like for example um stormy daniels yeah stormyy. Stormy might cost a premium because people know who she is. Wait, are you telling me that a prostitute is really a couple grand an hour if she is hot? Well, I think a very hot, you know, I will just say. I mean, that is insane.

I will just tell you this. This is all I can tell you within terms of personal personal experience i was at a strip club in toronto a very i mean really really beautiful like you know as hot as any movie star stripper told me that she would come that she would you know um come to my hotel room for a thousand dollars canadian obviously she didn't say canadian but we were in toronto um i declined the offer but she was off the charts hot and she was a thousand dollars now so but for the night or for an hour because generally it's by generally it's by the hour generally it's by the hour why did you for the night when you wanted to do it and get the hell out just like every other woman all right but an hour that's like a teasing

an hour should be sufficient time to do what needs doing to finish doing what you need to do hours more than enough now did you just turn it down because of the financial constraints dictated i mean had i had an unlimited budget i can't say i would have said no she was very very obvious and canadian so she was pleasant yeah i mean i can't imagine why you would have turned that down it seems like um well again a thousand dollars is a bit but once in a while like a splurge like that seems prudent no now let me ask you a question, Perry. As a married woman, what if your husband were to splurge like that on a business trip?

With a prostitute? Yeah. How does that circle back to me, though? Do I also get to engage in that? You can answer both questions. I do not think I would appreciate that. Would you call it divorce-worthy misbehavior? No, I don't think so. That means he can do it. I can't do that. I'll be sleeping on the couch for a week. What sanctions might there be then, Perry?

I love divorce wasn't called for. Well, there are other sanctions that might be brought to bear. I think that it really depends. Like, is it something that like we talked about before? Or did he just go on a trip and then come back and tell me that he had sex with a prostitute? Neither. Go ahead, Dan. Go ahead. Well, how about if he asked you, he said, look, it's just sex and she's really beautiful.

And I don't need to hear the she's really beautiful part. We can start. There's no parallel, but I'm away from I'm away from home. But what if it wasn't even that bad? What if he didn't even tell you? You just found out. You found out somehow. No, that's worse. No, because he didn't want to hurt your feelings.

No, no, no, no, no, no. That's worse. Finding out, because then you've also lied, which I think is worse. He didn't lie. You never asked. Listen, do we need to get Juanita in here? No. Juanita's answer, we know Juanita's answer. Everything is worth divorce get Juanita in here? No.

See, Juanita's answer, we know Juanita's answer. Everything is worth divorce for Juanita. Prostitute would be like way above the requirement. I feel like a prostitute's much preferable to like you know, somebody who you just met.

Now what if it wasn't prostitute, what if it wasn't process? What if it wasn't intercourse even? It was just like a massage. Well, that's fine. Like a happy ending massage? Yeah, of course. I mean, you know, it's understandable, I think. Oh my God.

That is a good woman, Dan. Yes, yes. Fine woman indeed. I mean, but it's easy to like sit here and, you know, philosophize about it. Intellectually, you know, I don't think that if I were more evolved, I don't even think I would have a problem with him having sex with other people. But you can bring home diseases from sex. Well, I mean, she's a prostitute.

Well, I mean, I would say that prostitutes, you probably have less of a chance because if they're being careful and smart, then they're fine. I mean, it's a very bourgeois kind of position, you know, like in France, nobody has a problem with any of this. Really? Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure. I think it's a very American sort of bourgeois position that, you know, being monogamous is the only, you know, the only way that you're supposed to be. I mean, are human beings meant to be monogamous, Noam, for the rest of their lives? Like, is that not men? No, not men. What does bourgeois mean, actually? I'm not quite sure what that meant. Dan? No, I do, but i feel like he'll be more articulate than i am

context i don't know what she means either i mean bourgeois is generally the upper class i think but isn't it like middle class sort of um well i think it can have that meaning in a certain context i know what you meant like sort of like conservative values a little bit stayed uptight well i can look it up and then i'd like to get to another topic if we could a bourgeois person belonging to the middle class a person whose attitudes and behavior are marked by conformity to the standards and conventions of the middle class there you go so maybe that's that's what she meant but but speaking of monogamy that brings us to the to will smith and jada and uh we did discuss this last week But no, but my friend Dave Kim from Atlanta, Georgia

Wanted to hear your thoughts and was quite disappointed that you weren't There for that episode. So I think it's worth revisiting the slap heard around the world To get gnomes taken known by the way did an interview with The Hollywood Reporter Wherein they asked him what effect the slap might have on comedy business i couldn't even spell bourgeois that's how that's how dumb i am i couldn't i couldn't even spell it close enough for google to help me on it i finally got okay go ahead yeah but did you hear what i just said yeah you went on my position you weren't here last week and uh dave, among others, would probably like to know your thoughts on the matter.

Well, I mean, I have nothing profound to say on it. Obviously, you can't go assaulting comedians, whatever they say. I mean, these rules are quite established in the law, even without comedians, let alone when you're at an awards show where the traditional role. I'm sorry, I'm making money while we play. While the traditional role of the presenter is, as far as I understand, often to lightly roast the attendees. George Clooney married Amal Alamuddin this year. Amal is a human rights lawyer who worked on the Enron case, was an advisor to Kofi Annan regarding Syria, and was selected for a three-person UN commission

investigating rules of war violations in the Gaza Strip. So tonight, her husband is getting a Lifetime Achievement Award. But if he hadn't hit him, and if he just complained about it, then it would be relevant to know whether Chris Rock knew that she had alopecia or thought he, you know, that she just was making a bold fashion statement. As far as I've heard through kind of like two degrees of separation, he didn't know she had alopecia

and he actually thought she looked pretty and was making like a, like teasing her, but in a nice way because he thought she looked good. But that doesn't, once he crossed the line of hitting Chris Rock, that doesn't become a necessary, even a relevant question anymore. That's my whole thing. It's hilarious to me that it took like three or four days for everybody to realize that this was clearly wrong.

And, you know, Hollywood, my quote was that the people in Hollywood look to their left, they look to their right, you know, they don't know what to think. And then they stood up and gave Will Smith a standing ovation, just like they gave to Roman Polanski, these fucking idiots, who they spend their whole lives judging everybody for everything, just judging, judging, judging. And then right in front of them, finally they have their own to judge and they prove that they're totally incapable of, they're just lemmings, sheep, can't think for themselves. They're just, they're ridiculous, right?

These Hollywood people, they're just ridiculous. So in a Hollywood reporter article, they asked you if you felt that this would then give rise to more violent behavior in comedy clubs, which I think is a ridiculous notion. But anyway, what did you have to say? And I said, no, I didn't think so. And then the Hollywood Reporter quoted me correctly. And then like six other papers managed to

excise some remarks in my Hollywood Reporter interview and turn it into me saying that I thought there would be violence. Did you see that? And also page six did exactly the same thing to me in their own interview with me, where they asked me the question, do you think this is going to lead to more violence? And I said, I don't think so. But, you know, I suppose there's a chance because people used to duel and stuff, but I don't think so. And they left out the part where I said, I don't think so. Oh, my God. And also left out the part where they asked me, they made it sound like I brought it up. And I like the press, The press is ridiculous. Like you should just assume everything you read is not true because every experience I've ever had with the press, save a very few examples. Present company included being.

They get it wrong. And like they they have their narrative and they fit your statement into the into the story they already want to tell. It's it's it's insane what they do. Isn't that how we became friends though? Yes. Yes. That's how we became, Perry Ellen interviewed me. That's right. And she, and she had integrity. She tried to get it right. I didn't try to get it right. I really. But even New York magazine did this ridiculous thing about me moving the comedian table that wasn't true.

Like they just and these are these are unimportant things. But you think that you'd think they're any different when it comes to like a president or Hunter Biden's laptop or Donald Trump's. I mean, they they they don't care what's true or not true. I really went to bat for you, didn't I? And then I got in trouble because I said that the New Yorker had like made something up and the editor in chief of my magazine was like, you can't just go around calling other journalists liars. Like you have to go reach out to this guy and give him an opportunity to respond. yeah i i i think i said this last week but uh of the very rare instances that i have seen an audience member either threaten or or assault a comedian and i think i've only seen it three times and and i hate to say how long i've been doing comedy but in a long time it's always a husband or boyfriend defending his woman it's always it's always that, if, so I would say to comedians, if you are worried and I don't think the danger is particularly elevated, but if you're worried, don't make fun of it. Don't make fun of chicks.

Don't make fun of it, especially where their, where their boyfriend or husband is there. But that's how. To be fair, tell me if I'm wrong or right. It's usually the woman won't shut up and she's heckling and bothering the comedian. Finally, the comedian will say something to the husband like, can't you put something in her mouth to shut her up or something like that? Like something, some vulgar thing or he'll call her the C word or whatever. Usually it's the woman is heckling the.

Yeah, I think that's true. I think of the examples that I have in my mind. I think it went down like that. Yeah. The comedian then appeals to the husband. The husband defends in some way. He insults the girlfriend. And then the husband gets macho or the boyfriend gets macho. Yeah, I think that has been how it's how it's gone down. But it is always a defending the honor of the woman sort of a thing. I believe in defending the honor of a woman, but. It's ridiculous. Nobody needs their honor defended. This isn't like 1873.

Like, we're fine. We don't need you to like go... Is there anything that a comedian could say wherein you would at least have some sympathy for the... For example, the N-word, I guess, would be the most obvious example. A comedian, a white comedian, calls a black guy the N-word. You know, would you have some sympathy for the and he assaulted him and they

and the audience member then hit the comedian well when kramer went on that n-word splurge again was against a black guy in the audience right yeah i guess he didn't get hit um look he ruined his own career i mean you don't need somebody to hit you like you dig yourself into a grave, right? There is a certain type of verbal attack, which I think is meant to be the opening salvo in a I don't care anymore, let's throw down. There are certain instances where somebody says something to somebody where they really do expect it, or they couldn't care less whether it leads to a physical altercation. Now, in those situations, you're still not supposed to hit somebody. But I think in those situations, you can put more moral culpability on the verbal attacker because you know what his intention was, you know. And calling a black person the N-word is, you know, is usually what you say when you're ready to get physical. So, yeah, I mean, I would say there's a little

gray area there. And I would also say that what happened to Will Smith doesn't get anywhere near that gray area. And then, of course, the law can't really recognize any gray area because the law can't say you're allowed to hit somebody under the following circumstances. On the other hand, I think juries would probably exercise a little bit of nullification in a situation like that. They're unlikely to really throw the book at a black guy who punches a white guy in the nose who's taunting him with the n-word. Unlikely, at least in a blue state. Correct? Yeah, well, that sounds reasonable. Once again, eminently reasonable. You know, again, I have to say,

I just don't know that you're going to find this kind of discourse on a lot of podcasts. And if only we could get famous guests, then we could really, really shine as a podcast. By the way, Para, we tried to get a guest to come and I know you wanted to discuss it. Yeah, I don Para, we tried to get a guest to come and I know you wanted to discuss it. Yeah,

I don't think we need to say who though. Well, a comedian who has sort of taken it upon herself,

we'll say it's a her, to try to make comedy clubs a safe environment for women because the recent victory of whatever the recent awarding of Louis CKA Grammy for best comedy album to her was

a step too far and so this Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, so she then said she wanted to talk to club owners on Twitter She said I want to talk to club owners about how to make comedy clubs a safe space for female comedians and waitstaff. So we thought, oh, you want to talk to club owners? Why not talk to the club owner of the probably the best club? And, you know, maybe maybe along with the comedy store in L.A., the two premier comedy clubs in America. But she didn't want to come on. No.

That's prerogative. Yeah, of course. I mean, I don't know. I think it's unfortunate that she didn't want to come on because I think that if you want to have that conversation,

it's an important conversation to have, and I think it's a conversation that is welcome. She didn't want to have it in a public forum, but would rather, you know, it wasn't my idea. And I'm happy that we didn't do it because it's the kind of thing where if I said something, I just feel like like she felt like she might be ambushed but the truth is uh i think it's more likely that something i might have said would be taken somehow out of context or even in context some things now are off limits um and then she might have taken it to twitter and use it to dredge up this whole thing against me again for, you know, for allowing Louis to form at the club. I mean, there are, there are, there are some female comedians out there and females and people,

men too, who just are so outraged by what it is that he did that they feel he should never perform again. Noam, did you, just to, this is a little bit of a rewind, but I think it's always, I think given that Louis just won a Grammy and given that there is a lot of people that are outraged by that,

did you, what steps did you take? I believe you said at the time that you asked all the waitstaff and female comics or you had Liz ask all the waitstaff and female comics, or you had Liz ask all the waitstaff and female comics, if they were, if they had a problem with Louis performing here. We did, we reached out and we, and we, you know, we fired the ones who were giving, gave us problems and I'm kidding. No, we did do that. And I was shocked at the time that,

because our waitresses are mostly young uh women that they were they were not bothered with it a couple comedians uh were like not happy about it and they didn't want to they didn't want to be on the same show with him and but even most of the female comedians judy gold actually um defended us on that And we did everything we could, but my question to these people is always not, would be to zoom out, not about Louie, but just to know exactly what is their position in life about if somebody does something wrong,

what should the mob, I guess that's a loaded word, but what should the community be allowed to punish them with? And for how long, what are the safeguards? What if they get it wrong? What, you know, how do we know the story? Like it's such a dangerous and fraught thing to do. And then what are the, of course, the incentives to people just to keep lying because louis could have just kept saying no that never happened and he would have gotten away with it because you can't prove it um we don't yeah no i think that's the thing that's been really interesting to me in

watching you have to navigate this which is you really do have to zoom out because, you know, I'm so reactionary about things and, you know, there's I'm not making any of these decisions. So it's like, you know, we talked about Cosby or even I think Trump or Hitler. And I was like, what? You should never let them in here. And it's true, though. It's like so what you've said very publicly, like, well, if somebody hasn't been, you know, committed a crime in in a court of law, then, you know, what sort of decisions are you supposed to make as the owner of a comedy club about those people? And really, where does it end? Yeah, well, I mean, I don't want to get dragged into it. What I said was a little bit different than that. But what did you say?

It's too long and complicated. But the thing is this. Um, the, the, this notion that comedy clubs are not safe. That is, I think, the word, is it a lie? I don't, I don't know. I guess it's only a lie if you, if you know, it's not true, but the idea that the comedy seller is unsafe because anybody walks in, does their spot, sits down and drinks their, you know, eats their steak and goes home is absurd. Huh? What? It's unsafe to the cow that they're eating, to the steak.

But other than that. We have no private spaces there. There's no green room. There's no, there's no, there's just nothing unsafe about that i mean it's it's notable that the incident that happened with louis and dana and julia is that their name dana julia was at their hotel room that they took him back to uh or his hotel room one of their hotel rooms that they all you know went back to a hotel room at four in the morning. That's where this kind of thing happened. So I really find it, again, my temptation is to say disingenuous, but I suppose

that's not true. I suppose people really believe this, but the notion that I need to worry about my my club being safe because someone who uh uh you know did this kind of serious misbehavior what is it almost 20 years ago in a hotel room or in a you know on the phone um you know this i just don't i just don't find this credible i mean i i would i would react to it if i thought it was unsafe i hope hope I'm not wrong. Well, also, it's like they also might think that people might be psychologically triggered just by the presence of certain people. Do you not think that any walk into a room that there are like several men who have like actually raped women in that room? Like any time a woman walks into an elevator or a parking garage or a restaurant there are numerous men in there that just by like sheer statistics like you know they're in there so

then don't fucking ever leave the house well i i don't know what the statistics are of men who have actually like raped women i think one in three women have been raped, right? I mean, I think- I don't know if that's a credible statistic, but, and I'm not sure, whatever. But even if it is one in three, I think that you can assume that when you walk into a group of men,

at least one has done something worse than masturbating, asking if he can masturbate in front of women. I would say that. I would say there are men who have been physically forceful in one way or another, maybe not holding somebody down and raping them, but enough to make the woman feel that she was violated in some way. Like every, every woman I know has a story about a man grabbing their ass, holding them down, pushing them, you know, scaring them a little bit. Short of, of forced intercourse. You agree with that, right?

One out of every six American women has been the victim of an attempted or complete rape in her lifetime. Right. About, right. That doesn't mean one out of six men have done it. Yeah, it's the same guy. Whatever, it's like a loose mass. Yeah, I mean, you're right.

Men are creeps. And I mean, I have a daughter. I worry about this very much. I don't know that men are creeps. I actually would not say that. I don't know that men are creeps i i actually would not say that i don't think that that's true that one through six men uh or whatever decided about the elevator uh statistically you know that would indicate that men are i mean if you can rely if if statistically in every elevator there's a rapist then yeah you can say men are creeps

can we talk about something related and more interesting to me which is but i also want to make the point noam that um this is related that uh there probably shouldn't be a grammy for best comedy album the grammys are about music uh i don't know why there's a i didn't even know until a few years ago until i you know until i started hearing about comedians being nominated that there was a Grammy for best comedy album. Just like I didn't know until recently that there was an Oscar for best animated short. No one cares. What's wrong? I don't know what's wrong with that.

That's fine that there's a Grammy for comedy album. It's not a real Grammy. It's not a real Grammy. According to what? It's a real Grammy. According to what? According to me. The first Grammy for comedy performance was the Chipmunks song, but that's music.

That's music. Oh wait, spoken comedy, 1960. Shelley Berman. Interesting. Okay, but listen. Grammys are for recorded works. Well, theoretically. But we all think of Grammys are for recorded works. Well, theoretically. But we all think of Grammys as music. Well, I mean, I've known always that it was a comedy Grammy.

But here's my question. What do you think is the significance of the fact that the Grammys are a secret ballot? And that's why Louis won. If anybody had to go on record about this, they would have never voted for him. Who votes? That's him. Who votes? That's interesting. Who votes for the Grammys? I'm not sure.

I think the final round, it's limited to people who are somehow related to that category in some way, but however you want to slice it, it's just another illustration of the fact that so much of this is for public consumption, but if you could vote secretly, you vote for Louis louis ck because you think his album is awesome yeah i mean that that that holds water i guess you're probably right if they had to come out and publicly now i assume we know

who the voters are even if we don't know how they voted i'm sure we do know how they voted they voted for louis we don't know how each individual voted. We know how the aggregate voted. And so if you're if you're one of the people that voted, you're under suspicion. Right. For those who are outraged by this. And you're a voter at the Grammys, you're at least under suspicion. It's like you might well have voted for the course. We don't know. But I think Noam is right. I don't know how many people would come out publicly and say i voted for louis album of course we don't really know that but um i'm but you know i mean sorry i'm still riding the wave that my math was so often nobody said a word about it we expect that pair we were noteworthy if you got in there right we don't we don't even we don't even assume like like, when you quote statistics, it's just like poetry, I guess. One out of three, one out of six. I mean, that is, like, so off. But I don't think that one out of six is a reliable statistic.

I've read various articles of that statistic. Listen, when you say you don't think it's a reliable statistic, people go, oh, it's because you're soft on rape or something. Whatever the statistic is, it is. Are you soft on rape? That's what the New York Post is going to quote you. I've read that that statistic is not reliable, but even if it's one out of 10 or one out of 20, it's still very high. I mean, it's a lot of people being raped. It's awful. All right. What else is on the agenda? What's coming on with Judge Judge Brown? Is she is she a justice yet or is she still in limbo?

I haven't been following that. I've really been off it. But I I know that the Republicans are acting like idiots trying to say that she's soft on child porn. That's crazy. And knowing nothing about it, I'm going to tell you, I don't think she's soft on child porn. Is she? No. She gave what they regarded as light sentences

to people with child pornography collections. So I don't know exactly what the sentences were, but they were lighter, I suppose, than the average sentence. Is that true? I think so. And didn't Tennessee just pass a law about that you can basically marry children? I doubt it. Well, so what does this mean?

So traditionally, the Republicans were much easier than the Democrats in terms of giving votes to the candidate of the other side, particularly when it was a liberal justice replacing a liberal justice as this is. So I'm wondering, and politicians, of course, do everything for political reasons, most of them. So I'm wondering if this means that somehow, in the way things are now, that these issues get pumped up, like in this case, on Fox News. And now the politicians, the senators, feel that unless they vote against this woman, they will get primaried the next time they run for election. And this being soft on child porn will then stick to them. They voted for the justice who was soft on child porn. And this is how these false issues create so much leverage and ruining our politics, right? I mean, I don't think the Republicans, politicians don't care about anything. I'm beginning to think politicians don't care about anything. They'll just vote. I mean, they just vote for whatever, they do whatever they

think they need to do to stay in office, period. I think term limits would be a really good idea. I mean, after Chuck Schumer was quiet as a mouse during the whole Gaza war, I mean, if he didn't stand for that, none of them stand for anything. That's my opinion. But I don't I think that this just Judge Brown is a meagerly qualified judge based on what I read about her in The Times compared to other people who've been nominated. But, you know, she's just going to replace another liberal vote. If I could just quickly, because in the interest of honesty, according to what I'm reading here, Tennessee bill would eliminate age requirements for marriage. I don't know much more of the details, but that's what Perrielle was alluding to. So she was right? She was right.

I guess. I don't know if that means that an adult can marry a child, but it might mean the two children can. I don't know what it means. And I'm not I don't know the details. How could two seven year olds get married now? I can't write. I just sent you the article. No, it's pornographic. What do you mean? It's fucking Tennessee. What's everybody

so shocking, shocked about Tennessee marriage bill called quote unquote horrifying as law could see children wed. I just texted it to you. I don't believe anything I read either. OK, well, then what do you believe? I don't I don't know. Like now there's this whole. OK, so what about this? Don't say gay bill. Do we even know what the truth is about that? I can't I can't figure it out. You don't do it. So, I mean, yeah, it's like this anti LGBT agenda in Florida and sweeping

the nation, I might add, where it's ridiculous. It's so absurd. It's like, they're talking about like, teaching kids, they think that like, if you teach kids about being gay that it's that you're gonna like make them gay it's the most idiotic primitive and philistine concept in the world all right well these are my thoughts on it number one i don't care what my kids are exposed to regard regarding um i said it's this somewhere else recently, regarding gay, trans, we've had trans guests at our house. Kids know people who are gay.

I don't think it's going to change the trajectory of their sexual preference or sexual identity or gender identity. I know you're not supposed to say that's just preference anymore, whatever. I'm not worried about that. However, having said all that, and I really mean that, Perry Hill, you know me well enough to know that that's the truth. Having said that, I don't want my kid's kindergarten, first or second or third grade teacher broaching any of these issues with my kids. This is ridiculous. First of all, it has no business in the classroom.

They're too young. And to the extent that this is important to be taught, what are the qualifications of a typical second grade public school teacher? What is she? I don't know. Stop for a second. First of all, if your child is old enough to know that a man and a woman can be married, your child is old enough to know that a woman and a woman or a man and a man can be married. That's all. How does that come up in second grade? I don't know. You read books about people who are married. What if a teacher said, you know, yeah, What if they read a children's book about a couple and the couple happens to be two men? What if somebody has parents who are gay?

I mean, this is fucking psychotic. OK, OK, OK, OK. I said if if if the law means that a teacher has to deny like Mr. that he has a gay gay marriage or or something like that no i would be against that because it's dehumanizing to the teacher who is living a legal life and that i mean that you can't ask the teacher to lie to the kids that's just the way it goes but i think it's telling that these are the examples being given up. What if out of left field, this issue gets somehow implicated? What the teacher's supposed to say,

the point is that as far as curriculum go, curricula go, I don't see why this would be in the classroom. And to the extent it is finding itself into the classroom, I feel that there's an agenda being driven here. And let me say one more thing about it. I think it's important. The arrogance here that bothers me is that until 2012, Barack Obama and all the elites, Bill Clinton, all of them,

they were against gay marriage. This was the opinion of the Democratic elite intellectuals. They were against gay marriage. And there's something really arrogant about the fact that as soon as they evolve to a new position, they turn around and they face all the people behind them and say, you bunch of hateful bigots. How could you be this way? Like, like everybody has to come to this on their schedule or be called a hateful bigot. But the fact is that they all went to Harvard. They're all, they're all, you know, in the most elite circles, most cosmopolitan circles and they're, and they're, and they were

very slow to it. And now they're turning to small town religious people, religious people who have not had their cultural experience, not worldly like them, not traveled, not been exposed to gay people in a way that give them a firsthand understanding of this matter. And then they talk down to them as if this was self-evident. Like you people should know this is self-evident. You shouldn't have these feelings as pretend that they never had these feelings like last week themselves, not only had these feelings last week themselves,

but ran for political office, championing these feelings, swearing that they're going to protect marriage. Fuck them. That's the only thing that bothers me about this. This fucking arrogant lie of these elites, the way they cast their judgment on these people who were no different than them just a few years ago. They don't turn around and say, listen, I understand how you guys feel. I used to feel that way too. It was wrong when I felt it.

Let me explain to you how I understand where you're coming from because I was coming from there. Let me explain to you how I felt that way and I get the way you feel. And let me try to convince you the way I was convinced. They don't talk to them like that with respect. They talk to them as if no one knows. They're full of shit. Like they're going to pretend they always felt this way, but they didn't always feel that way.

Or even worse, they did always feel that way, but they pretended not to feel that way because they thought it would get them elected. Take your pick, which one is lower character? The actual bigot or the one pretends to be a bigot because it's good for his career? Fuck them. That's what I think about that.

Where am I wrong, Perrielle? Perrielle, you're on the air. Perrielle, we have Perrielle. I'm not wrong. I'm obviously correct. Do you want me to answer or do you want to answer? If you agree with me, you can answer.

There's two questions. The hypocrisy of the people that you're discussing and the wisdom of whether or not we should teach third graders about human sexuality, sexual orientation. Okay, so first of all, I'm sure. Like, I don't really give a shit about the hypocrisy. I'm much more concerned with the human rights issue. And I really do think it's a human right.

I don't give a shit about the hypocrisy. Am I really do think it's a human right. Shit about the pockets. Am I wrong about that? No, you're not wrong about the hypocrisy. It's fucking disgusting and psychotic that, you know, my two of my best friends are a gay couple and they have three kids and their kids were any friend or anybody in your life. That's not one of your best friends. You describe one of your best friends. You describe everybody as your best friend. No, I don't. I have a lot of very close friends.

I tell you, I, every time I like, sometimes I'll do Perry L's show at standup New York. And there's always a new friend there. And that I haven't met or never heard of that. Perry L introduces as a good friend. I'm like,

I never heard of this person. Well, you don't listen to me, but the point is Perry has a lot of friends. She does have, I will say that she has more, I think, cause I don't have that many. I'm like, I never heard of this person. Well, you don't listen to me. But the point is, Peril has a lot of friends. She does have, I will say that. She has more friends. I don't have that many. I got a few. You know, they're not that many. And then I have peripheral people

that are there sort of on the outer edge of my friendship circle. But Peril does seem to have a lot of really close friends. I don't have peripheral. I can't do peripheral. I can't stand peripheral. I have, I do. I have a nice amount of very close friends who are amazing they really are anyway they have three boys and they're like he comes out to Chicago to see me open for Louie I don't know who this chick is she brings her with

her you know never heard of her never heard her name never heard anything and the two are basically they're they're basically making out at the bar practice that's Kat my first book was about her what are you saying um if you'd read My first book was about her. Go ahead. What are you saying? If you'd read my first book, you would have known about Kat. Carol, nobody's reading your book. Come on, go on. What are you going to say?

What's your point? No, it's appalling. It really is appalling to think that like these little boys couldn't go into school and talk about who their parents are because some fucking piece of shit lawmaker yeah i'm not you're okay i agree with you but i'm not sure okay stop there though just i agree with you is good okay but perry i don't know if that's what the law

addresses the law might just address that you can't have like as noam suggested part of the curriculum is okay today we're going to discuss gender identity in the third grade. This is, you know, first we're going to do fractions from 9 to 10. At 10 to 11, we're going to discuss, you know, how a bill becomes a law. And then we're going to discuss non-binary, you know. Multiplication and then couples that can't multiply. But I think that, Perry, I mean, just to correct your point, I don't think the law could tell little kids what they can't talk about. wrong if it comes up in a natural way. You cannot ask a teacher to have a different ability to speak freely about his life than a straight teacher. I would draw the line there.

However, I think that there should be not much latitude for teachers in general to be discussing their personal lives. I don't think it's about the teachers personal lives though. I think it's about. What becomes very difficult is to separate that from what we know is an agenda here. Now just relatedly. You're saying that I don't agree with you you're you're saying

that you're taking that for granted i think the agenda is on the other side i think it's an anti lgbt agenda and i think that's where you're probably right with that they're probably both true so so i had lunch um coffee uh with somebody i met for the first time the other night a liberal person who told me that their teen was now um she's i can't remember which direction it was transgender i think was a biological male who felt that their woman now this parent is not a bigot or anti-trans and this parent and this gets lost sometimes um parents love their kids way more than teachers do or the state does or the voters do and this parent was really agonizing what with whether or not this was a social contagion in some way, what the right thing to do was.

The parent had become a very, very expert on all the latest science on these matters and felt that it was conspicuously unsettled, that the parent was very upset that the that state had the right to give the child puberty blockers things like this without their permission and and um they can get puberty puberty blocker to a minor without the parents permission i I didn't. According to the, or doctors can do it according to this parent. And, and certainly even if that's not true, I do know it's true that this is, there is an agenda to allow that. I don't know, maybe it's state by state.

There's an agenda to just sight unseen, take the, if a child should utter, you know, some sort of words that indicates that they're having these feelings, that somebody should step in front, here's my son, somebody should step in front of the parent and make these decisions for the child. So there's a lot going on here. I don't know the, I don't know what's right and what's wrong i i'm i'm happy that um i haven't been faced with such issues one of my very very closest friend in the world not this person i met did go through this it's not easy and whatever it is the notion that your third grade teacher would have your child as a captive audience and then be able to discuss this stuff from her point of view about what's right or what's wrong.

As influential as teachers are on young kids, this is just, I think, regardless of whether I agree with what the teacher feels or doesn't agree with what the teacher feels, there's just something going on here. It's not, sweetheart. There's something going on here where the schools have in some way lost touch with what they're there for. We send our kids, especially to learn to read, to write and do arithmetic.

And by the way, they're not doing very well at that. So why don't they double up on math and leave this sexual stuff just out of the classroom and let this be handled in the home within the bounds of the culture that that home represents. You think you're going to, forget about us, you think you're going to take some Muslim,

some religious Muslim family and have them taught, you know, ideas about human sexuality that run 180 degrees counter to what they believe. And that's a healthy democracy. Now, I'll say one more thing. Having said that, I understand this is difficult because you could make the analogy. There were certain times that people felt similar ways to like intermarriage between blacks and whites yeah and you say well do you think it was right for the school to no i i i i get it there may be certain things which are just so outrageous that we have to we have to stand tight on it we but i i don't know i think that um they just this is don't forget, this is just up to the third grade, I believe.

Listen, it just really shouldn't be discussing human sexuality. No one is up to the third grade. No one is coming in with an agenda. I don't believe and trying to, you know, sort of teach first, second, and third graders. Hold on, let me ask my son, let me ask my son Manny, who just walked in. Do you want to talk on the podcast, sweetie? Yeah. You do? I want to talk on the podcast.

Alright, so this is Manny. Come here, come here. Have you been taught, come sit. Have you been taught anything in school about, like, what have you been taught in school about, like, human have you been taught in school about like human sexuality? What? Anything? I've been taught that boys are better than girls.

All right. All right. Have you been taught anything about like gay or transgender or anything like that? No. No? But my friends, no, I haven't. Do you know about these things? Yes.

How do you know about these things? Now don't make any jokes't. Do you know about these things? Yes. How do you know about these things? Now, don't make any jokes. How do you know about these things? Mila learned it in her school and then told me about it. Mila learned it in her school and then told you about it. Mila's older. All right. And let me ask you this, though.

What, you know, my son. Asking me? me or Manny? Hi, Manny. Hi. No, I was going to ask you, not Manny. Okay, go ahead. I mean, my son, when he was in pre-K, had a teacher who was trans.

And it came up very naturally that the teacher was trans because of whatever the conversation was. And the teacher up very naturally that the teacher was trans because of whatever the conversation was. And the teacher very honestly and in a very age appropriate way, frankly, told the kids, well, I was born a girl, but now I'm a boy. Yeah, I think that's fine. OK, but according to this, you know, bill, it's not fine. OK, but this is what I'm trying. I haven't

read the bill i don't think you have either i don't know what's fine not not fine according to bill but i think the standard i would stick to is this the teacher has a right to uh the honest expression of their life exactly the same as any straight teacher or as any non-trans teacher, whatever it is. That's a human right in a sense. Teachers are not doing anything to be ashamed of. The teacher should never be asked to act like they're doing something they should be ashamed of. That is the teacher's right. I would stand by that. Okay. And what if there's a teacher? The teacher does not. Wait, wait, wait. What if there's a teacher? The teacher does not. Beyond that. There's a kid who's transgender because there are. Hold on.

But now the teacher does not have. That's the teacher's right as a human being, I would say. Almost inalienable right. Beyond that, as to teaching the subject matter, as to teaching what it means to be trans. Is it is it something you're born with? Is it something, I don't even know what they go into. No, the teacher shouldn't be teaching that stuff in the classroom.

The teacher doesn't even have the expertise. I don't know if anybody has the expertise because some of this stuff is in flux. But even if it is, kids are not old enough to understand it. I don't agree. The teacher should not be teaching them anything political about, in my opinion, about these things. I don't agree. Well teacher should not be teaching them anything political about. I don't agree. I don't have to agree. You believe in democracy? I don't think it's political.

OK, but do you believe in democracy? No, I believe in dictatorships. OK, so so whether you agree or not, I believe that communities have a right to make these decisions, not the community. Do not do not have a right to abrogate the the teacher's rights which which i think you could probably make the legal argument the teacher has the right to free speech to to to the extent that a straight teacher has or a non-trans teacher has to answer any questions honestly about their lives that anyone else can answer that's tough shit this is so blurry you know i mean I mean, at what point is it become quote unquote teaching or just like talking honestly about your life? And what if there's

a trans kid or a non-binary kid, which there are, and I don't agree. What does that have to do with that teacher? Is it trans kid kids? And then the kids are asking and then it turns into a conversation. And to me, that seems like a very natural thing. But the teacher's not qualified to answer those questions. The teacher answers a thousand questions a day that they're possibly not qualified to answer. I mean, the teacher can say he's trans, but, Perrielle, I mean, I don't know. I don't even think this is what's funny about this thing. I don't think you have any idea what it is even you're arguing for.

I know exactly what I'm arguing for. Like a student says, comes to the teacher, they're making fun of the kid. Now the teacher has to say, look, you can't make fun of him. He was born biologically this way. Now he's this way. It's perfectly fine. Yeah, but does the law say you can't do that? We don't even know.

We don't even know. We don't even know. You're responding to basically a meme here. Don't say gay, which the bill doesn't say. And it's like, this is my frustration with you. Like, take the fucking time to read the bill and a few analyses of it that really try to explain. First of all, I have read the bill. You have not read the bill. I have read part of it. Maybe that should be our assignment for a future. I read part the bill. You have not read the bill.

I have read part of it. Maybe that should be our assignment for a future show. I read part of it. Like any of us have read the bill. Why don't we get on a lawyer who is opposed to this bill or a lawyer who supports the bill? We can read the bill ourselves. You know, if we have a lawyer on, then we got to deal with the lawyer. Yeah.

Or somebody who knows what it is. I know what it is. Probably our dear, our old friend Alan Dershowitz probably knows. Oh, he could come back on. We get shit every time we have him on though. Listen, it's the same thing. The bill would ban curriculum for all grades that may teach, promote or endorse what it calls quote unquote divisive or inherently

racist concepts. It would outlaw any textbook, instructional material, or academic curriculum that quote unquote promotes concepts, including critical race theory, intersectional theory. I think you're reading the wrong bill, Perry. That's not the don't say gavel.

That's the CRT bill. Wait. No. It might be. Wait a second. Wait a second. Thank God we don't charge for this we don't have to get refunds all right this is uh all right i'll come back to this

um all right reading something in the new york times uh trying to find the tech well i get a paywall here so i do have an interesting talking point but i need permission from dan what's your talking point i met noam's mom oh yeah okay that that sounds like a good talking we're kind of we're kind of well no because i i told uh perry allen i've said several times that she's not authorized to change topics oh which i think is a prudent policy. But but she ran it by me. And I think that it well, we're running out of time.

But yeah, so you met Noam's mom. She was so lovely. She was really nice. I can't believe I've never met her before. And it was it was really just so wonderful because she is so far left wing. I mean, she makes me look like Tucker Carlson. It was just absolutely fucking unbelievable. She was like interrogating me about my position on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

I don't know if Noam has anything to say to that but I will say that I met her as well I've met her before and she looks really really good for her age I don't know how old she is but she looks great she's 68 no she's not

she's 79 she looks tremendous I did have a uh a thought are we finished i had a thought on um trying to find the text of the don't say gay bill okay i i i had a thought on race that uh but maybe we'll save it for another day if we're out of time now say it well i somehow the the uh ukraine thing uh and and the will smith thing made me think about this stuff you know that when when somebody um like when a like a black kid commits a crime, let's say. Conservatives will be very much about agency. You committed this crime, you have free will,

you chose to commit a crime, you're going to jail. And liberals will very often say, well, you have to understand his upbringing and his culture, all the disadvantages and the legacy of slavery and these things. And sometimes they'll even from that advocate not punishing them, for instance, you know, some sort of looting or even an assault, whatever. And this has always been causation has I've always found this issue difficult because both sides are actually correct.

It is true that people have to be held accountable for their free will, because if they're not, it's anarchy. I mean, if you don't punish people for committing crimes, then all is lost. On the other hand, it's heartless to pretend that a person's environment isn't part of that story. And sometimes you notice even like very gifted people will come from nothing and become something and they'll turn and say, well, I did it. But why? So why can't you do it? But of course, the answer very often to that is, well, you happen to be, you know, gifted with a top point five percent IQ. And that's so you were able to find your way out of this situation, but where the average schmo is still struggling. But so it occurred to me that given my particular upbringing, Dan's probably even a better example of this.

If I had wanted to become a violent criminal drug dealer, I would have had to devise a strategy how to overcome the advantages of my life to get myself into to be able to become a drug dealer in a violent situation. Like, I wouldn't even know how to have gone about doing that. And yet for some kids, all they have to do is surrender to basically gravity, just basically the gravity of their situation to find themselves in that situation, to find themselves falling in with the wrong crowd, to find themselves committing violent criminal, to find themselves facing the incentive structure that would lead somebody to want to become turned to crime in order to get money as opposed to my situation so i just think that this is it it's it's it's just an interesting way to think about it it's quite unfair it it ought to make everybody consider the the the role that luck

plays in their lives before bad luck plays in their lives and that ought to temper the extent to which they they judge others but yet on the other hand when you see somebody like kick the shit out of an old lady i don't know how far you can take what I'm saying. We have to, we do have to expect people to have agency. Noam is slowly but surely coming around to my position that free will and you know and still even in even among uh people who grow up in a disadvantaged context very few of them relatively maybe way more than people privileged but relative to their to their their universe very few of them are become violent criminals. So it's not, you know, it's,

it's not something that people don't exercise agency and avoid, but still there is something unfair about it. And there's something shallow, I think, in the way both sides look at this because very few people really seem to struggle with the fact that both sides have a point. I don't know. That's neither here nor there. It was just something I was thinking of. It's one of my shower internal monologues, you know? By the way, the don'ts. Well, okay. Very interesting. But I don't have much to add to it. I,

I did find that this, all I can find is that the don't say gay bill titled the parent parental rights and education ban classrooms discussions about sexuality and gender identity in primary grade levels. bill titled the Parental Rights in Education Ban Classrooms Discussions About Sexuality and Gender Identity in Primary Grade Levels. I'm okay with that. I don't want, I do not want, I will have, I'll handle that at home. Thank you. What happens if it comes up at school? Teacher said, well, that's not, shut up kids, we're doing math now. No, they don't have free discussion at school. It's normal to talk about this stuff. It is just an absolute ploy. Well, let me ask you a question. What if the teacher disagrees with you on this stuff? Is that OK for them to talk about? They're not supposed to be indoctrinating the kids one way or the other.

It's just they're not. I don't want them indoctrinating the kids one way or the other. It's just about they're not. I don't want them indoctrinating the kids one way or the other. But the fact that you can't talk about something as normal as like being two men being married or whatever the fuck it is, is a complete ploy from an read it again, read it again, Dan just says intentionally by the way this is not to discuss matters of sexuality or gender identity in primary grade levels disgusting but but but that could come up like but how far does that go does that mean that if you know the teacher is married to a man and he can't say so i my husband and i were having you know because that could be better discussing it i don't know what if the teacher, what if the student, is it normal to be transgender? What should the teacher

say? Of course it's normal. What if the teacher says, well, no, actually it's considered a mental illness. It's in DSM, gender dysphoria. What if they say that? Gender dysphoria is not considered the same thing as being transgender. That's number one. No, no. Well, gender dysphoria is, is, is that part of it? No, I'm you saying the teacher would say we cannot, that's not a discussion that we should have. If they, if it teach, if a student says to the teacher,

is it normal that, that a boy. But no. Gender dysphoria is a concept. It's a DSM, a clinically significant distress impairment related to strong desire to be of another gender, which may include desire to change primary second characteristics, sex treatment, sex reassignment therapy, sex reassignment surgery. So like the teacher, believe me, everybody's going to flip on this bill if the teacher starts saying this is gender dysphoria, this is mental illness. All of a sudden, as soon as he just starts saying that, the liberals are going to be saying, they shouldn't be discussing this

in the classroom. Of course, that's what they're going to say. Teachers should say, if the student says, is it normal that somebody with a penis puts on a dress

and plays with the girls and the teacher's supposed to say what? I can't discuss this? Yes, it's normal. I mean, it's a dicey thing, but I would tell the teacher's supposed to say what i can't discuss this yes it's normal i mean it's a dicey thing but i would tell the teacher to say say that's not i'm just a third grade teacher these are complicated issues you're discussing with your parents no come on that's not realistic at all this is a total ploy to pass an anti-lgbt well okay perriel don't answer my question and what if what i said well if the teacher says exactly what I said?

Well, if the kid is being bullied, as I said, as I mentioned earlier, then doesn't the teacher have the responsibility to say, look, there's nothing wrong with him or her, you know, that's, I mean, whatever pronouns they would use, but, but, um, of course, you know, um, okay. But Perry L what if the teacher says, well, if you have the desire to be, uh, the opposite sex, that's called gender dysphoria. And that's in the American psychiatric association, DSM, a book, you know, the classification of mental disorders. Now that's all that is all stop it. I'm being totally serious right now. Stop. That is all incontrovertibly true. What I just said. That is true.

Obviously, that's not what they're supposed to say. Why not? Because it's ridiculous. And being gay was a fucking mental disorder in DSM until like the 70s. So what you're saying is that the teachers are not only supposed to say the right thing, they're supposed to say the right thing, even if it's contrary to what the psychiatric profession says. The psychiatric profession. Don't get me wrong. I do not want them saying this to the kids. I'm saying that what you really mean is you want this if the teachers say what it is you agree with, but you will not want it if the teacher say what it is you don't agree with. Let

me tell you, some of the things you don't agree with will be textbook true. Until they take it out. That's why this is so fraught. And you're not talking to seventh graders as you can say to them, here's an assignment, read this, read that, come to your conclusion. You're talking to third graders who believe in Santa Claus. First of all... Okay. First of all... I don't think third graders believe in Santa Claus. Oh, yes, they do. How do they?

No, I don't know. Or first graders do. The point is that none of this is relevant. The point is that this really is an anti-LGBT agenda. That's where it's coming from. None of this is relevant, Dan.

None of this is relevant. All right. All right. Well, I don't think there's an easy answer. No, there's not an easy answer. Like I said, you know, if the bill said you can't have like a particular curriculum, you can't like, you know, that discusses this, then okay, it's not part of the curriculum. Your curriculum is reading, writing, and arithmetic. However, if it comes up naturally, I don't know that this bill covers it.

If there's a kid being bullied and the teacher wants to say, hey, here's the deal, this kid, there's nothing wrong with him, whether that's included in the bill. Well, bullying should never happen no matter what it is. mean like children are children are bullied for um being you know unattractive for having moles for like all sorts of things that people are that children are bullied for without the teacher having to take a deep dive into what it means to have a mole or you know you know a stutter or explain it in an age appropriate way. Yeah. It's wrong to bully people who are different than you. Right. Okay. Listen, I'm not endorsing this bill that don't, I don't, I don't really hope not. I don't know enough about the bill to endorse it. I don't know how it's written,

but I'm telling you, I'm telling you basically where I come down on that particular topic. Doesn't feel that this should be part of the curriculum? If it comes up in relation to the teacher's personal life or to a student, that's one thing. The way I generally come down is nobody should, the law should never force somebody to dehumanize themselves in the sense

that they can't discuss in the same way anyone else can discuss who they are, what their lives are, what their family is, whatever it is, because this is their, I think their basic right as a human being. If they're not doing anything that, that society feels, if they have rights to do these things societally, then they should have the right to say i'm doing these things i believe that i'm telling you that this thing is very dicey and it has a very sinister agenda all right okay and when i read it i'll probably feel even more that way you will but you're not going to read it so there's no risk of that look i um i you know i'm not i'm not supporting this bill i like you know i don't i don't i mean

imagine to feel this strongly and i haven't even read it imagine how much more strongly i'm going to feel once i read it i mean frankly even among liberal people i know i don't know anybody less except for you maybe less concerned about their child being influenced in any way. I am so, and I've always been so sure that these things were beyond the influence of teaching or peers or anything like that, that I really don't worry about it for my kids. Yeah, I'm not. What do you mean?

I don't know what you, what were you, what do you mean that you don't know anybody who's less? I don't I don't I don't think that my child is going to become transgender because somebody could convince them somehow to become transgender. I don't. It's not. I mean, that's like saying, like, can I make you gay right now? Like, you're straight, right?

Is there anything that like I could say that would make you be gay? I mean, it's absurd. Well, the other side of it is that some people say that, that there are social contagions for people who are, who feel there's a certain, perhaps a certain psychological profile of somebody who is so um prone to peer pressure or so so prone to wanting to be accepted in some way that they will embrace something like this for the positive attention it might give them

at a time like now when this is really being celebrated. I don't think that's ridiculous. Look, let me take it as an analogy. There is nothing more powerful than the urge of self-preservation, right? This is a very, very basic instinct, at least as basic as the urge for sex. And yet, in a certain context, you can convince do something that they wouldn't otherwise have done i can't say that that's not possible because clearly it is possible in certain cases and certain people who already kind of maybe have a certain kind of mental illness where they're just so insecure is a word that's coming to mind but but it's maybe that's not the right word, but just so yearning for positive attention from people. Maybe they would do something regarding sexuality that

they wouldn't have otherwise done. Maybe, I don't know. I'm not an expert. So, so everything might exist to some degree to say that something is zero, very few things are zero. Very few things are zero, including things like this. I wouldn't put my life on it that there's zero probability of these things. But I think it's very, very, very, very few. And it's not something I worry about. But if my kids seem less mentally stable in some way, maybe I would worry about it. But I don I worry about. But you know, if my kids seem less mentally stable in some way, maybe I would worry about it,

but I don't worry about it. Well, I think we'll wrap it up there unless anybody has anything else to add. Noam, is that a good place to wrap up? Yeah, well, I know some of you might object even to the term worrying about it as if why should you worry about it? What do you even care which way they come out? i guess does they have a point um at that too but that's for another day yeah

go ahead okay podcast at comedyseller.com for comments suggestions queries constructive criticism i guess we'll see you next time on the Comedy Cellar Live from the Table. Bye-bye.