The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Sopan Deb & Jim David
Episode Date: December 9, 2017Sopan Deb is a culture writer for The New York Times, writing about the intersection of politics and culture, among other topics. Before joining The Times, he covered Donald Trump's presidential camp...aign for CBS News from start to finish as a campaign embed. He covered hundreds of rallies in more than 40 states for a year and a half. He is also a New York City-based stand up comedian. Jim David is a legendary New York City-based standup comedian. He may be seen performing regularly at the Comedy Cellar.
Transcript
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You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com.
Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar Show here on Sirius XM Channel 99.
My name is Noam Dwarman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. We are here at the back
table of The Comedy Cellar. I'm here, as almost always, with my co-host, Mr. Dan Natterman.
Thank you, Noam.
My nemesis.
Well, I don't know why you keep saying that.
I heard you last week talking about all the conflict we have.
Anyway, one of our favorite guests, Mr. Jim David.
Hello.
Hello, Jim.
And then we have a special guest today.
His name is Sopan Deb.
He's a culture writer for the New York Times.
That's the organ that brought down Louis C.K.,
writing about the intersection of politics and culture,
among other topics.
Before joining the Times,
he covered Donald Trump's presidential campaign.
Wow.
For CBS News, from start to finish as campaign embed.
He covered hundreds of rallies in more than 40 states
for a year and a half.
He is also a New York City-based stand-up comedian.
And, uh, okay.
He knits.
He knits and he cooks.
I'm sorry.
I left the knitting out of the bio.
Do you knit?
No, I promised last week.
My volume on my headset could be a little higher.
Jesus, you think while you're sitting here doing nothing, you could check that day?
Well, I'm not a technical guy.
Really?
You don't know how to turn up a volume?
Go ahead.
Try now.
No, it's not very good.
Oh, Jesus.
I don't know if that's my...
Go ahead.
Well, anyway, it's not very good.
But anyway, I promised...
Now, last week you weren't here, and I did a solo show.
That is to say, without you, we had guests.
But I did promise the guests that we'd talk about your adventures at sea.
No doubt you were on a Disney cruise for a week,
and no doubt that you have many exciting
tales. We have a guy here who covered the Trump campaign
as an embed and you always talk about my
embed in the Disney cruise.
I'm far more interested in the Disney cruise
to be honest with you.
Well, it was a lot of Trump supporters
on that Disney cruise. Is that right? Is that true?
And my wife was wearing a t-shirt that said
the future is Latino.
It's true.
I've performed on cruises.
Did you see the comedy show?
Did they have a comedy show on board?
I didn't go.
There was one I didn't go.
Do you recall the name of the comedian?
No, I don't.
Mody or something like that?
No, it wasn't Mody.
You should have gone, though,
because that would have been interesting
to hear your take on a Disney comedy cruise comedy show.
I've never been on a cruise, by the way. I don't know.
I don't see the appeal.
You know how most cruise ships have a horn where they go
like that? The Disney
Cruises horn, I swear to God, goes
Did you hear that?
Yeah, of course I heard it. It was awesome.
Does that get
grating after a couple days?
No.
First of all, I love the whole thing.
I have three children.
Oh, yeah.
Two children and a baby.
And this was like, there was Marvel characters walking around and princesses walking around.
They loved it.
Anapomorphic bananas.
And, yeah, this was the greatest thing ever.
You have three kids?
I have three kids, but one's an infant.
What's the age range?
Five and four.
Can I make a recommendation to you, if I may?
Careful.
No, no.
I'm going to do a self-plug here, and that's very tacky.
I knew something was coming.
But I recently saw the SpongeBob SquarePants musical on Broadway.
Yeah.
And if you have three kids,
it is one of the best musicals
to take a kiss to right now.
I loved it.
It was a great...
Why is this a plug for you?
Well, I wrote about it
last week at the Times.
Ah.
That's why.
Okay, let's talk about
your New York Times.
Okay, well...
And I read that article
because I'm fascinated
with the idea
that SpongeBob is a musical.
I was very skeptical walking in.
Did you know anything about Spongebob going in?
I knew a little bit.
I know nothing.
Can you not hijack this musical theater, Jim?
I don't want to say it out loud, but come on.
Did you know this?
Excuse me.
You bring up an upcoming Broadway musical and a gay guy is at the table.
This is bound to happen.
It's Spongebob.
But still, it's a
$20 million musical.
This is not in the New York
theater market.
That's a big budget. I imagine sponges
are an essential part of gay sex.
Anyway, go ahead.
What the fuck?
But in all seriousness,
a quarter of Spongebob's
TV viewership is made up of adults
without children.
It is pretty funny. So for those of you
that are under the influence, apparently...
You're saying it's fun for the whole family.
Right. And I'm waiting in line to walk
into Spongebob, and multiple people
are outside handing out joints.
Like, yeah, I've got a
Lucy here. So you can get stoned to watch the show.
I think, but there is actually
an audience of stoners for SpongeBob.
That's like a thing. I didn't know that
until I started writing this story, but there is
actually an audience of,
you know, and the SpongeBob folks,
the Nickelodeon folks, they're not going to say this out loud.
They're not going to say, oh yeah, yeah.
Gentlemen, enough with the SpongeBob. I want to talk about
stuff that interests me.
Let's change from talking about a family-friendly show
to a president who incites anti-Muslim violence worldwide.
Are you a Muslim?
I'm not, no.
What's your heritage?
My parents were both born in India.
They brought me up Hindu, but I'm agnostic.
Okay.
A great stand-up joke I heard once, which
was, I'm agnostic,
you know, just in case. And that's
where I fall. Wait, can you
be an agnostic and
a Hindu? Because is a Hindu about the
deity, or I thought a Hindu was more spiritual?
I mean, it's whatever you want
to be, but Hindi is more about
having... Hindu, Hindu. Hindu, it's more
about polytheism.
There's a lot of different gods.
Me, not to get too deep here,
but my parents got divorced.
They were both arranged to get married in India.
And my... Can I tell you,
this man was beaten up
at a Trump rally.
We'll get to it.
We'll be listening by the time we get to it.
This man was beaten up At a Trump rally. We'll get to it. Nobody's going to be listening by the time we get to it. This man was beaten up at a Trump rally.
Let's cut to that.
Covering as a person of color.
Tell us about that.
How badly beaten were you?
Well, okay.
So just to clarify here, the physical stuff had nothing to do with Trump.
It had to do with Chicago police.
So Trump was doing a rally, I think it was
March 18th, 2016
in Chicago.
A day that will live in infamy.
And so he's
doing a rally in Chicago and
it was always kind of an iffy place for him
to do a rally because
it's a city and there were
protests planned for weeks.
Oh, I remember that.
I remember that.
They're like, why are you doing it in Chicago?
Yeah.
So now just to clarify this, and you'll see why this plays into the story later, is that
my parents really have no idea what I do for a living.
Unless you're a doctor or an engineer, they don't really know what you do for a living.
And even as a campaign reporter, they're like, well, what does that mean?
I don't know what that means.
All right.
Anyway. So I get to – so the campaign – the press corps gets to this rally, and we're inside this basketball arena downtown at this college campus in Chicago.
And you can already sense that the environment's very tense.
It's kind of weird.
Tense from, like, what standpoint?
There are a lot of – there are hundreds of protesters inside the rally already.
Oh, that are in the rally.
At every Trump rally, there were a lot of protesters.
And it was just a part of life.
But this one felt different.
This one felt like there was an air of something a little bit more aggressive than usual.
On top of that, outside the rally, there were hundreds, if not thousands, of people on the streets of Chicago protesting Trump coming to give a speech downtown.
Okay.
Anyway.
About ten minutes before the speech, an announcement comes over the loudspeaker and says,
Donald Trump, you know, Mr. Trump will not be giving a rally tonight or something along those lines.
He canceled the rally.
At this point, pandemonium breaks loose.
I mean, Trump supporters are pushing Trump protesters.
Trump protesters are pushing Trump supporters. Trump protesters are pushing Trump supporters.
They're yelling at each other. Like when Natterman missed his spot last week.
It was unlike anything I've ever seen.
He gets violent.
He's the most violent Jew.
No, the audience, when they found out he wasn't going to be there.
It was pandemonium.
Oh, it was the audience.
And then this builds onto the streets.
Tears of joy.
When you are a reporter, you kind of flick on on your, oh, my God, this is a thing.
So I had my camera.
I had a camera, and I'm out there shooting footage.
Out of nowhere, multiple Chicago police officers grabbed me from behind.
I never even got a look at these guys.
And they threw me to the ground, and they put a boot to my neck and handcuffed me.
My camera went flying.
I had no idea what happened.
It was very bizarre.
And the crazy thing is that Fox News kind of took my arrest live.
Greta Van Susteren, I believe, was the anchor.
Anyway, they threw me in a police van, and then they charged me with resisting arrest.
At no point did I ever talk to any police officers.
At no point did I make any contact.
I literally think what happened was they mistook me for
the wrong guy. I think
there was a police officer that got hit in the head with
something. I don't know that this is the case,
but
at some point, some police officer got hit in the head. I think
they thought I did it. Anyway,
long story short, at the end
of the night, you know,
at this point, this is going quote-unquote viral.
You know, CBS News reporter.
I was covering the campaign for CBS.
This, you know, CBS News reporter is arrested, charged with resisting arrest, and I get arrested at the end of the night.
I forgot to tell my family what had happened.
Oh, and they saw it on TV.
Well, ish.
My dad lives in India.
That's his family.
That's his father's name,
ish.
Right.
My father ish,
Mr. Ish.
My dad lives in India.
He moved to India
when I was in high school.
My parents got divorced,
et cetera,
et cetera.
I was just so tired
at the end of the night
and my phone is literally
has a thousand text messages,
a thousand emails,
and missed phone calls trying to get in touch with me.
And I just wanted to go to bed because it was a very kind of traumatic night
a little bit.
Sure.
You got to get to the fight.
Come on.
You got to get to it.
Well, the next morning my dad calls.
I'm thinking it's one of his monthly check-ins or whatever
because we don't talk all that often.
He calls me.
He picks up the phone.
He goes, what happened?
And I'm like, oh, Dad, I'm so sorry I didn't tell you last night.
Do the accent
yeah no thank you and uh i go i'm so sorry uh i'm so sorry come on you gotta do the accent
i'm so sorry uh i didn't tell you last night um shit um uh this thing wait a minute how did you
know uh that this was you're in india how did that he goes you're in every newspaper in India. Holy. My son's a star.
Holy.
So he was proud of you.
For the first time in my life, my dad got what I did for a living,
and it was because I got arrested covering a Trump rally.
What did you do?
Listen, as somebody who's been arrested before,
and how that arrest has stuck with me on my record,
and I was turned down for global entry because of it.
Really?
Uh-huh.
Wow.
And it was just a charge.
It was just a reckless driving charge.
Reckless driving?
Well, they arrested me for DUI, but it was a false arrest because I hadn't been drinking.
The policeman just...
Were you getting a blowjob while you were driving?
Is that how it was reckless?
I don't talk about that part.
Right.
That was reckless.
But, you know, it's still there.
Is this on your record, this arrest?
No.
I don't think so.
You ought to check.
But the crazy thing is...
An arrest is an arrest.
Were you charged with anything?
I was charged with resisting arrest.
And how was it resolved?
Fox News captured my arrest live.
And they ran it live.
And it clearly showed that I was...
And, of course, my camera that I was shooting with also captured
what was happening live
I never stopped recording
which is a lesson
for journalists
is that you never
stop recording
you don't do it
no matter
like if you're in a situation
like that
keep your camera rolling
and it clearly showed
that I was very polite
when the cops arrested
I was like
excuse me sir
hi I'm a journalist
why am I being arrested
and no one would answer me
and Fox News
clearly showed
I was very calm
and CNN the great thing is when the CPD dropped my charges two days later, they never told me.
In fact.
Oh, they dropped your charges.
Yeah, yeah.
They dropped my charges.
And CNN broke the news.
CNN is a breaking news.
You know, CBS reporter has charges dropped against.
I was like, oh, I found out from CNN that my charges were dropped.
Oh, so you had the charges dropped.
Yes.
Yeah, two days later.
All right, I didn't.
I had to go to court and spend $10,000 on it.
$10,000 over a false charge.
All told, it was $10,000.
And the prosecutor, see, because I don't know how,
a lot of the time, the prosecutor's on the level
of DUIs and stuff like that.
They're just fresh out of law school.
And so they want to show
that they're strong and all that crap.
Let me ask you a question. If I may.
This story is not over? This is the longest
story anybody's ever told on this show.
Well, one thing that you just remind me of
is that when a journalist
gets arrested, when a journalist gets like,
you know, the corporation steps in
and hires a lawyer,
a highly paid lawyer that can step in and advocate for you.
When I was thrown in the police van, I was thrown in the police van with a 23-year-old Peruvian chef who probably didn't come from much means,
and another gentleman who didn't come from much means.
And I was thinking to myself, if I can get arrested for some BS, but at least I have a high-powered corporation behind me that can step in and say, this is garbage.
Imagine how many people are arrested in those kinds of situations that don't get to have someone step in and say, no, you don't get to treat him like that.
And that's what stuck with me more so than the actual situation.
When I was arrested, I was in jail with like 15 people in the same cell at one point.
And they were all talking.
And I would say like three of them belonged there.
Right, right, right.
One guy was arrested for smoking a joint on his porch as a police car drove by.
You're kidding.
No.
This was in the south?
This was Florida.
Fort Lauderdale.
And so it's like you learn that a lot of these arrests are to make money at the local level.
I mean, yeah, there's been a lot of reporting about this.
Yeah, that's totally right.
Did you get strip searched?
I did not get strip searched. I got strip searched, and when you
strip search a gay guy, you don't know what the hell's
going to fall out of there.
It's like a purse. Jim, you say
they arrested you for DUI and you hadn't
drank a drop of alcohol. No, I had not.
How did they determine? Did they give you a breathalyzer?
No, he had me do the field sobriety test.
This is the walking in a straight line.
Yeah, the walking in a straight line.
But you're a gay guy, so you sashayed.
Shut up.
You sashayed down the line?
No, no, listen.
Shut up.
This is why I hardly ever come to this fucking table, Saban.
This is why you have to deal with these monsters over here.
But I had to do the walking in the straight line, and I have a bad left foot.
I have posterior.
So you went in a circle.
Well, no.
I mean, the cop says to me, do you have any foot condition or leg condition that will prevent you from doing this thing?
And I said, yeah, I've got posterior tibial tendonitis.
And he said, I don't believe you.
And I said, oh, yeah.
The cop said that out loud. He said, I don't believe you. And I said, oh, yeah. The cop said that out loud.
He said, I don't believe you.
And I said, oh, yeah.
I just pulled the phrase posterior tibial tendonitis out of my ass.
Well, if you can pronounce posterior.
But I couldn't do it, and he decided that I was intoxicated.
Ironically, when I was pulled over, the test was pronounced posterior
postibial tendonitis.
I really want to talk about something.
Yeah, okay, go ahead.
No, please, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Donald Trump, who you guys hate,
referred to...
I'm a reporter, so I have to be objective about it.
Oh, no, you're a reporter.
You guys are never objective about it.
So Donald Trump, who you guys hate,
referred to Elizabeth Warren as Pocahontas.
Correct.
Which I think is a quality joke.
And I do not understand why they're calling is a quality joke. And I do not understand
why they're calling it racist.
Can somebody...
I do not understand...
To me, it's like
if Rachel Dolezal
walked in here
and I said,
oh, look, it's Rosa Parks.
And somebody said,
you're making fun of black people.
No, I'm not making fun
of black people.
I'm making fun of this woman
who's pretending to be black.
What am I missing?
Well, for one thing,
a racist said it. No, no, no, no, no, no. If that's all you got, for one thing, a racist said it.
No, no, no. If that's all you got,
then fine. Then any joke
that he makes can be...
Secondly, it was meant
not as an affectionate nickname or
a... No. It was meant as a
derogatory jab. At who?
At Elizabeth Warren. Yeah, but that's not racist.
Well, but no... She deserves it.
She made up the fact that she's a Native American.
She totally made that up.
Well, by all accounts, she's never been able to present one ounce of anything to verify it.
It could be the use of the word Pocahontas as a general term for Indian, you know.
It's tacky.
Like if you had said tacky, yes.
It's beneath the office. It's beneath. Yes. It's beneath the office.
It's beneath the dignity.
It's beneath the dignity.
And it was rude to the Indians in the sense that the Indians,
sorry,
you're standing right in front of him.
It was rude to the native Americans because they can't even,
he can't even talk because they,
because they were there to be honored.
And then he,
he,
he used that as a platform to make fun of Elizabeth Warren.
And,
and,
and that is rude and,
and,
uh, boorish. I'm not, I'm not defending Trump for that, but I'm saying there's nothing Warren, and that is rude and boorish.
I'm not defending Trump for that, but I'm saying there's nothing you could take from that joke and say, oh, he's disparaging Native Americans.
No, he's making fun of Elizabeth Warren for pretending she's Native American.
I see your point.
No, I see your point.
My only explanation is that maybe, as I said, Pocahontas has been a, you know, that sort of the stereotypical go-to reference for American Indians.
Oh, so what?
So, let me go back to my example.
I think it would be like.
If I said, if Rachel Dolezal walked in here and I said, oh, look, it's Rosa Parks.
Would anybody think I didn't like black people?
No, but you're not on national television in front of a bunch of black people.
No, but you would find black... You think anybody black
would think that they took it?
You think Keith Robinson would take it?
No, but this is the tough crowd.
Can you guys ever be objective and just say, you know what?
You live in
this hermetically sealed world down here
where... So it is racist then?
No, I don't think it's racist.
That's what I said. I don't think it's racist.
So that was your point? Yes, my point is that they're calling it racist and I don't think it's racist. That's what I said. I don't think it's racist. So that was your point?
Yes, my point is that they're calling it racist, and I don't think it was.
Now, what do you think?
Sopan? How do you pronounce it again?
Sopan.
Like Chopin, but Sopan.
You know, I was at a press conference with Trump in North Dakota during the campaign when he repeatedly,
I think it was one of the first times being asked about Elizabeth Warren,
and he kept repeatedly referring to her
as Elizabeth Warren.
And this moment
always stuck out to me because he kept calling her Pocahontas
and a Native
American journalist was in
the room and said,
excuse me, Mr. Trump, that is offensive.
Please stop saying that.
And he totally dismissed that.
But the counterintuitive thing to that is...
You know, can I just...
Can you hold that thought?
No, no, just hold it.
We also have a sports team called the Washington Redskins in Washington, D.C.,
and many Native Americans have said, please, can you stop doing that?
Right.
And they haven't done that in a lot of liberal Washington, D.C. people go to that game.
So I'm just going to cherry pick.
I'm going to give you a rare moment of reporter candor here, which is that in that moment, I was like, oh my God, he's saying Pocahontas.
He's saying this slur.
How could he?
And then a different reporter who is very conservatively aligned confronted a bunch of the reporters interviewed this Native American journalist after she confessed. And one of the
conservative journalists said, excuse me,
isn't it more offensive
if Elizabeth Warren used
the Native American heritage
to further
her own position? Isn't that actually
what is more offensive than if Donald Trump said
Pocahontas? And I was like, oh,
that's kind of interesting.
I'm not saying one way or another. I'm saying that. like, oh, well, that's kind of interesting. I'm not saying
one way or another. I'm saying that. I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting.
This is the problem.
We've become a society that's humorless
and looks under every
nook and cranny to try to call somebody
a racist.
Let me make a point about Trump, though.
I saw hundreds of Trump rallies.
In more or less, Trump is
100% a stand-up comic in many ways.
He comes out, no teleprompter.
He surveys the crowd, okay, and he does crowd work.
He tells jokes.
When he would come out, when Ted Cruz was his number one opponent.
Lion Ted.
Lion Ted.
He would say, you know.
Lion Ted.
Lion Ted.
Holds the Bible high high and puts it down
and then he lies.
And a crowd of 10,000
would chant,
Lion Ted, Lion Ted.
It was what
you'd see with
Chris Rock.
And we've
never had a candidate like that.
He once took a water bottle. He once made a campaign issue
four weeks about Marco Rubio
drinking
the bottled water
during a State of the Union response.
He once threw the
water in the crowd and said,
It's Marco Rubio!
And it's like, oh my god.
He's a bully. He bullied McCain.
He bullied...
Noam, let me go back to your original thought. And it's like, oh, my God. He's a bully. He bullied McCain. He bullied...
You've also got to...
Noam, let me go back to your original thought.
I tweeted this yesterday.
Okay.
This is a quote from the Alliance of Colonial Era Tribes.
Ay-yi-yi.
Okay.
All right.
What do you mean, ay-yi-yi?
Ay-yi-yi.
Okay.
Ay-yi-yi.
Ay-yi-yi.
Ay-yi-yi.
No, but they said, and I thought this was interesting.
That was not a racist joke.
The right to determine if it is a slur belongs to those who have been insulted, not the one who made the insult.
I totally disagree with that.
You do?
I totally, that is actually what's wrong with America today.
Oh, is that it?
Yeah.
Oh, is that it?
I really mean that, that the right to determine,
because there's no rhyme or reason to it,
that they can decide it's okay for you to say it,
it's not okay for you to say it,
this bothered me when this one said it,
didn't bother me when that one said it,
and that's all based on something that I don't have to account for
because of my DNA.
The question is, if it's a slur,
someone should be able to explain to me with a better argument than, well, a Native American said so.
Well, no.
I'm sorry.
I'm not going to go.
All right, but no.
If somebody pretended to be Jewish, and somebody said, oh, look, there's, I don't know, there's Goldberg.
And I said, that's anti-Semitic.
And the guy said, no, it's not anti-Semitic.
I'm making fun of him because I think it's wrong that he was pretending to be Jewish. I'm like, no, it's anti-Semitic. And the guy said, no, it's not anti-Semitic. I'm making fun of him because I think it's wrong that he was pretending to be Jewish.
I'm like, no, it's anti-Semitic.
I said so.
The right is mine.
There's somebody who goes, fuck myself.
You can't tell somebody the right is theirs.
They have to defend it.
In defense of what Jim or that quote that Jim read, I think there's something to that.
For example, you may believe that somebody who is transgender
and identifies as a woman,
you may believe legitimately and rationally that that's a he.
Right.
But she doesn't want you to call him he.
You think it's irrational, but out of courtesy,
you call him she.
Well, somebody, you might feel it's irrational
that Pocahontas is a slur.
If Trump referred to an Indian as Pocahontas, a slur. No, if Trump referred to an Indian as
Pocahontas, I would be with you.
Let me finish my sentence, please.
We got your point. No, you didn't get my point.
If you have reason to believe that somebody's going to be
If you have reason to believe that
somebody's going to be offended by something,
don't fucking say it to prove a point.
No, that's different. First of all, I don't
Trump is so stupid. He may not have had
reason to believe. I think he thought maybe that they were on his side.
I think actually quite a few of them probably.
See, the thing is that he never ever, and the tweets that he put out today about showing the anti-Muslim tweets,
he never passes up an opportunity to troll people.
Yes.
He is the biggest troll.
Here's the moment.
Remember, remember.
I want to make one thing about Dan's point, just to be very clear.
If he were to refer to an
Indian as
Pocahontas, that would be
quite different.
That's disrespectful.
But he was not. He was taking an Indian hero,
Pocahontas, and making
fun of someone. I don't know if Pocahontas
is an Indian hero. A cherished part of
Americana and
making fun of
somebody who was pretending to be that.
One time a guy, I was doing...
Come on, this is Trump hatred dressed up
as rationality. My point was
simply, true or false,
if you have reason to believe...
If you have reason to believe,
and I don't know that this was the case,
that somebody will be offended by your words,
you should not say it.
It's your fault. A stand-up comedian is going to tell me that?
If I have reason to believe
that you don't want to be called
by some nickname... No, you're not being
called by the nickname. If you have
reason to believe that something is going to offend somebody...
No, comedians go on every night and
say things that might offend people.
Yeah, but here's... If I may step in here.
You know, if you say I'm pro-life, it's going to offend people.
Any joke could offend somebody.
Ryan Hamilton did his fucking hot air balloon.
You are shielded.
Ryan Hamilton did his hot air balloon routine one night, and somebody got offended.
Trump was not doing a stand-up back.
He was honoring code talkers.
Do you see the difference? Yes. It's a very big not doing a stand-up back. He was hiring code talkers. Do you see the difference?
Yes.
It's a very big difference in a stand-up back.
What's offensive is that he politicized this event.
I started by saying that.
But there was nothing about calling her Pocahontas, which any reasonable person could take to mean this guy has some disparaging Native Americans.
And just because somebody can misunderstand him
doesn't mean he has to not say it.
But did Trump have reason to believe
that that would be considered offensive, yes or no?
I don't know.
But if he did, would that have been rude?
Here's the thing.
If he had reason to believe that they would be offended by that.
No, I do not believe that people have to...
It's rude because...
First of all...
But I don't think people need to shut down
just because somebody might get offended.
A comedian is held to a different standard
for what is funny than a president is.
I don't like the veto of one person out of 100 can get offended and now somebody can't say it.
But the second thing is, the more important thing, a comedian can make whatever jokes he or she wants on a stage.
But he or she is held accountable for that joke.
Meaning, if you make a joke about AIDS or cancer.
Trump is accountable. can be a politician.
Hold on, let me finish.
If you make a joke about AIDS or cancer or race or whatever,
if that joke is not funny,
then you get held accountable for that.
That's just how it is, fair or unfair.
So if you're a white guy making a joke about black people,
or brown people or Arabs or whatever,
and the joke is not taken well by the audience, then
you get blasted for that. And that's how it is.
Deservedly so. He didn't make
a joke about Indian people.
He made a joke teasing someone
who's pretending to be. It's exactly what I
But listen, I think it's
Andrew Cuomo,
the lovely governor of New York, said,
I remember in 2000, he said, Barack Obama is shucking and jiving.
He did?
He said that.
You can Google it.
And, you know, it's Andrew Cuomo, so it's okay.
Well, let me ask you this question, Noah.
I mean, it's coming out now.
You're with a group of black people.
It sometimes happens because you have no choice.
They work here.
And you want to use the word niggardly.
Now, this is a legitimate word in the English language that has a certain meaning.
But you have reason to believe.
It means stingy.
You have reason to believe that saying that in front of a group of black people would be offensive to them.
Yeah.
Do you use the word, even though it's a perfectly legitimate English word, it means stingy?
I'm going to answer you.
I'll tell you the answer.
First of all, I wouldn't. I would tell you why. Because I understand why it's a perfectly legitimate English word, it means stingy. I'll tell you the answer. First of all, I wouldn't.
I would tell you why.
Because I understand why it's jarring.
Somebody can explain to me, a black person can say, listen, I know it sounds like, but
when I hear the sound nigger come out of somebody's mouth, it revolts me.
And I say, oh, yeah, I can, now you've explained it to me.
I understand it, so I won't use it. But when somebody wants to change the name of a college dormitory
because the guy who founded its name happened to be Lynch,
I'm like, no.
I don't give a shit if you're offended by the name Lynch.
It's not the same word.
And that's his fucking last name.
And, you know, that happened.
It did?
Yeah.
Who was offended by the word named Lynch?
The students demanded that the Lynch dorm change their name from Lynch. Where is it? You can Google it. I don't Yeah. Who was offended by the word named Lynch? The students demanded that the Lynch dorm
change their name from Lynch. Where is it?
You can Google. I don't remember where it was.
But it happened, and these things happen all the time.
And it doesn't get a pass. Somebody can explain.
But this is not even
that. People ask me this question all the time.
If a Native American would have to say,
this is why this bothers me.
And I'd be like, and I know
the answer. I know why it bothers him.
Because it's Trump.
That's going to be, in the end, let's be honest, that's what it is.
If somebody else said it, it would be okay.
I want to say again, he should not have said it for other reasons.
It was rude.
It's egotistical.
It's boorish.
All those things.
Mike, I knew if somebody else had said it, it would have been worse.
Because Trump, we give a little latitude to because we know he's a clown.
Imagine if Clinton said, well,
Pocahontas over there.
I think that's the greatest
impression in the world.
Listen, I see your point because
people are asking me all the time
what I think of the, should the baker
be forced to make the cake
for the gay weddings. That's going to the Supreme Court.
Is that something that
is a big topic of discussion
for someone like you?
Among my people.
That's not what I meant.
When we are huddled
in our bathhouses
at the monthly meeting
when we're stacked up.
I disagree with my friends
about this. You do?
That's interesting.
They think adamantly that he should be forced absolutely to make the cake.
I am of the opinion that while there should be anti-discrimination laws on the books,
and he is technically violating them,
if it had been me, I would have gone to another baker, and I'll tell you why.
Because to make it, you know how people always say, don't make it a federal case?
By making it a federal
case, they have given the religious
right all of this ammunition.
It's like, see? We can't
even practice our religion.
I don't want to give those people any
you know,
I don't want to turn them into a martyr at all.
Why is selling a gay married couple a cake infringing on someone else's ability to prize a really?
It's not at all.
It's bullshit.
The guy's full of shit, and the Taliban-gelical hate group who is defending him is also full of shit.
Okay, wait a second. I think you might be right.
What I'm saying is, the reason I brought this up is, a lot of people need to just sort of lighten up and let it go.
And I see what you're saying. You are saying that why are we all of a sudden jumping on this as racism
and this. You have always
had this up your ass. In many
cases, justifiably so.
I'll take that as a compliment. Go ahead.
You're a free speech
absolutist. Wouldn't you say
that? Yes. Okay. And I will
give you that. The modern day
Lenny Bruce. I don't believe
somebody should be racist. But you're like
Voltaire. You know what that quote is?
Defend your
life. I respect.
Defend with my life your right to say.
Here's something
Voltaire said. I vehemently disagree.
Do it with a French accent. I vehemently
disagree with what you
said, but I will defend to the death
your right to say it. Wow, that was very good.
That was Jean-Baptiste Poqueland de Voltaire.
I was at a play of his.
I think that actually was not an actual Voltaire quote,
but it's attributed to him.
Okay, whatever, go ahead.
That's like a sidetrack, go ahead.
Don't get sucked into the Naliman vortex.
Great French accent.
Someone else said it.
No, but you know what I mean.
It's like,
I see what you're saying,
but it's,
with Trump calling Warren Pocahontas
in front of the Native Americans,
I don't jump on the bandwagon
with people who said it was racist.
No, I don't.
It was just rude,
which is not the same thing.
It was just rude and tasteless and tacky,
and he's a motherfucker.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
He's a shit stain.
I stipulated that.
You know what I mean?
I stipulated to all that in the beginning.
And by the way, your listeners can follow me on at ComicJimDavid on Twitter and at SoapOnDeb on Twitter.
They can follow us.
I always love new followers.
You wanted to say something?
Yes, but I forgot what it was.
I lost my train of thought.
So it's not important.
Well, you know what I mean.
The gay birthday cake. Well, no, but I mean, it was. I lost my train of thought. So it's not important. Well, you know what I mean. The gay birthday cake.
Well, no, but I mean, that is an instance where...
Let me see what I think about the birthday cake.
Dan, you want to say something about the gay birthday cake?
I'm just checking my Bitcoin price.
The birthday cake.
Do you have Bitcoin?
I don't.
I do not have Bitcoin, no.
Every Uber driver I've spoken to is into Bitcoin.
I don't know if it's...
What is that about?
I'm not sure, but they all seem to be into the whole
cryptocurrency thing.
Really?
Anyway.
Wow.
I don't know why that is.
But in any case,
your question was about
the gay birthday cake?
Yeah.
Well, the reason I brought that up
Yeah, go ahead.
is just because
It was a wild day.
I think there's a parallel
to what I think about that
to what Noam thinks about this
because I think, while yes, he should I think about that to what Noam thinks about this.
Because I think, while yes, he should have to make it, on the other hand, I, as a customer, would have gone somewhere else just to not make it a public thing and to give the other side immunity.
Can I ask a question? And this is the reporter in the coming episode. There have been some people that have said that Donald Trump is the most gay-friendly president in history.
Oh, that's absolutely nonsense.
I'm just curious what you think of that.
Oh, that's absolute bullshit.
Because he got elected partly because of the religious right.
And just like everybody in his cabinet is a member of the religious right. Not everybody in his cabinet is a member of the religious right. And he, just like everybody in his cabinet, is a member of the religious right.
They are not.
Huh?
Not everybody in his cabinet is a member of the religious right.
Most of them.
Not the military guys.
Most of them, like Betsy DeVos, Rick Perry, Jeff Sessions, etc., etc.
Right.
He has had the Family Research Council and all of those Taliban-gelicals into his office, and
they have advised him. He has a bunch
of fringe, what we would call
fringe religious right leaders
as his advisors, because
he's a very pragmatic guy,
and he knows that that gets his votes. And those
people are interested in, like, I got married
five years ago, and they're interested in
destroying my marriage. If I may
follow up on that, do you feel
like when he got elected
that that was a step back
for you personally as
a gay man?
I was afraid that it would be.
It hasn't been yet. It won't be.
So why do you think, I guess my question...
From your mouth to God's ears.
I'm going to tell you why it won't be.
Is there a potential...
Because my experience in the campaign... Oh. Is there a potential? Hold on. Is there a...
Because my experience in the campaign...
Oh, there's a potential, yeah.
There's no potential.
My experience in the campaign trail is that this is just something that Donald Trump did not talk a lot about.
He avoided talking about it at all corners.
He didn't like talking about gay marriage.
He didn't like talking about abortion.
He didn't like talking about social issues.
Which, hold on, which as a Republican stuck out to me as, oh, maybe.
SOPAN, you're a newspaper reporter, right?
I'm sorry?
You understand civics, right?
I'm sorry, say that again?
You're a newspaper reporter. You understand civics.
What does the president have to do with gay marriage?
He can appoint a Supreme Court justice that will overturn it.
I mean, there's that.
There's that.
That's what his supporters want.
Hold on.
I'm asking him.
Is there anything else other than that?
Well, sure.
There is...
There is...
No, there is not.
There is Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
No, there is not.
There is the Defense of Marriage Act.
I said gay marriage.
You can't have a...
Dude, you're a newspaper reporter.
There's no Defense of Marriage Act
if the Supreme Court has said
that gay marriage cannot be abridged.
Can I answer your question?
He can set a tone.
He can speak in such a way as to set a tone.
He asked Jim whether he thought they were going to roll back
gay marriage. There's no chance.
Don't forget. There is a chance.
Hold on. Let me ask you another question.
Who
argued in favor of gay marriage at the Supreme
Court?
A right-wing
attorney. Oberfeld?
What do you mean? Ted Olson.
Are you uninformed?
Ted Olson. No, that wasn't about
gay marriage. That's true.
Ted Olson wasn't George Bush.
That's true, but...
As far as I understand it,
as opposed to Roe versus Wade,
there is absolutely no...
Now, of course, there's a potential.
There's absolutely no energy in the right
wing community to have
a court to overturn gay marriage.
You are completely wrong.
Maybe the religious right wing, because
the
right wing
was part
of the movement that approved
gay marriage, and Justice Roberts, who dissented,
he dissented very, very meekly.
Very meekly.
And if anybody knows Justice Roberts,
he doesn't believe in easily overturning opinions.
Precedence?
Precedence?
So it's very, very unlikely, if it were to ever come again,
which is very, very unlikely on top of that,
that Justice Roberts would be involved
in overturning it. Well, see, here's the thing.
Here's where I think you're wrong. Although there is a potential,
there is always a potential in any,
I guess, any Republican thing, it is
so far,
it is so unlikely
that there's going to be any movement to
overturn gay marriage. Well, see,
I follow this a lot more than you do.
And it's shocking to me that you didn't know off the top of your head
that the president has nothing to do with gay marriage.
No.
But he was in court.
You know that the previous president was also against gay marriage.
Until he was for it.
Until he was for it.
And Bill Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act.
He did indeed.
So come on now.
I mean, it's like crediting
the president with ending segregation.
It was Earl Warren's court that ended segregation.
It doesn't do anything. What does that do with Eisenhower?
Eisenhower didn't get credit for it.
Let me just apologize to
So Pan on behalf of
my esteemed co-host.
Don't apologize for me, Dan.
You're really going to piss me off.
Calling into question your credentials as a journalist.
He did not call.
I didn't.
I didn't call.
I didn't send your credentials.
I'm just saying, you know, come on now.
Donald Trump during the campaign said he would appoint justices that would overturn the gay marriage decision.
I don't think he said that.
I don't remember.
No, he said it.
Did he?
That's not a matter of opinion.
That's a matter of fact.
Okay, fair enough.
I don't remember that.
And I'm happy to, during commercial break, I'm still going to look it up now.
Go ahead.
That's the religious. Hold ahead. That's something he said
to Joe Scarborough
during an interview.
That's not a matter of fact.
Did he ever go back to it
or was it just one of his one-offs?
It doesn't matter
whether it's a one-off.
He's the president of the United States.
I didn't say whether it mattered or not.
I'm asking you.
That's the first thing.
I'm asking you
because at the convention,
he said quite the opposite.
Another time,
asked by Jake Tapper,
he was asked
what he thought he was doing.
He said, I'm more of a traditional marriage kind of guy.
So you factor, you put those things together.
It doesn't matter.
You know what I mean?
So those two things together matter as far as what a president can do in terms of.
No, they don't matter.
That's the thing.
That's the thing.
This is ridiculous.
Go ahead.
His Department of Justice under Jeff Sessions, you know,
rescinding President Obama's
executive actions about
Jeff Sessions and
transgenders and bathrooms.
Those are three things I can think of
off the top of my head.
It's not gay marriage.
But this is not just about gay marriage.
The Justice Department also put in a brief.
They put in the brief. Right. This is not just about gay marriage. The Justice Department also put in a brief. Transgenders are not gay, are they?
They put in the brief.
Right.
This is not just about gay marriage.
This is about LGBTQ friendliness. That's the first thing I would say.
Yes, President Obama was previously against gay marriage,
and he was for it.
He's the first president, again,
he's the first president in the history of the United States
that was the sitting president that, again, he's the first president in the history of the United States that was the sitting president
that came out for
gay marriage. In terms
of Donald Trump, this is the larger point
I'm trying to make here, that he was never being particularly
passionate about gay marriage.
He was never for
or against. He doesn't care.
He wants the supporters
who care. He is on record
during the campaign saying that he was against it.
And I'm sorry.
That does matter.
That's how it is.
But aside from that, he picked a vice president that was considered by LGBTQ allies to be against, you know, to be not exactly the most gay-friendly vice president. He's an
anti-gay zealot. He's not
just against it. Mike Pence. Yeah, absolutely.
He's an anti-gay zealot.
But beyond that, it's not like Donald
Trump has done a lot of things that have
made gays in this country feel particularly
at
home here in this country.
Nothing has
happened, But to answer
your question, no. This is so typical. It's such a
typical tactic to talk about one thing
to zoom out to the entire universe
which you're saying things I agree with
but they don't bear on whether or not I think he could overturn
gay marriage or not.
It is the goal of...
He literally said that.
It's not like he said...
I'm reading in Snopes. I don't want to read the whole thing,
it says, did Donald Trump,
the question, did
Donald Trump, the claim
Donald Trump said he'd overturned gay marriage
and they rate it as mixed.
They don't give it
a true. Somebody else can read the whole article
but they do not give it a true.
I rate Noam's children as mixed as well.
I'm not going to read the whole article
but apparently there's nuance to that.
Well, see, the thing is that he is,
there's never been a president
who has embraced the religious right like he has.
By the way, I would actually agree.
Reagan did.
I would actually agree.
I would actually agree that it's mixed
because in another interview
when he was asked about the decree,
he said, well, it's the law of the land.
That's how we have to do it.
That's the thing.
What I'm saying is, the reason I mentioned this at the beginning of the video is my point was that he's not Ted Cruz or Mike Huckabee when it comes to this.
Do you know what I mean?
He's never been that comfortable in this realm.
What I'm saying is that—
Can I tell you what the likely thing is?
Please.
This is where Jim, I think, may have a point.
Just like abortion, thing is? Please. And this is where Jim, I think, may have a point. Just like abortion,
which,
you know, it's just amazing it's never been overturned in the world versus the way it is. I don't think it ever will be.
Gay marriage, much, much less likely because
as opposed to abortion,
the country seems
to have really embraced gay marriage.
Big time.
Big time. So, that matters.
Yeah.
The courts don't usually turn around when they're totally out of step with the country.
Unless they're a nut.
Hold on, hold on.
But just like an abortion, what they did is they tried to chip away at the edges of it.
So, for instance, like this birthday cake thing.
Cake shop, yeah.
Masterpiece. You might see a court which then
created an exception for
the gay marriage birthday cake
thing. Things which I could
see being offensive,
but without ever getting to the big thing.
The problem with this case is that if the Supreme
Court ruled in favor of the baker,
and tell me if you agree with this,
it would create a
right to discriminate across the board.
Like somebody...
Why?
I could go with my husband to a Motel 6 to stay there,
and if the owner was some religious right person,
they could say, I'm sorry, we don't let gay couples stay here.
They would never let that.
But that's literally what could happen.
Why wouldn't that happen?
No, it could happen.
No, I'm asking, why would that happen?
Because I think that there are just certain things,
and public accommodations is one of them
and has a long history of being one of them.
Why isn't a bakery a public accommodation?
Well, it's not a public accommodation.
It's a business. But hotels
and things like restaurants, these
were a major part of the civil rights
cause
back in the 50s. A victory
for the religious right in this case would overturn
all of that. And on that note, I have to leave.
There is a potential.
I have to leave because I have to go next door to your club
and do a comedy show. The country would
freak out.
Well, you said, by the way, you made the point
that the country has embraced... So good to see you.
Do you have to go right now? Because I just wanted to...
Do you really think the country's embraced
gay marriage? The whole country?
Or just the people we happen to see? Not the whole...
Well, not the whole country, but... But many people
you wouldn't have expected to. Certainly everybody in my
life and everybody in my parents' Christian
retirement community.
Is that right?
My parents live
in a Christian retirement community in
North Carolina, and I took my husband
down there just last week for Thanksgiving
and we spoke to all of them.
This is my husband, this is my...
How nice to meet you.
But they all voted for Trump. But that's my point. And they're like, oh, well, how nice to meet you. Jim. But they all voted for Trump.
Right.
But that's my point.
That this is not, as opposed to abortion, which people really are against it and continue to be against it.
I know.
The gay marriage thing, I think it's in the rearview mirror.
I don't want to be guilty of wishful thinking or being naive about it, but that's really the way I feel.
That it's just in the rearview mirror of the country.
But no. But the thing is, is that it is in the rearview mirror of you, a New York comedy club owner.
You just described the Southern religious Christian.
Yeah, but still, those people are nice to me, but they'd still vote against me.
And you can't undo.
I mean, there's a lot of options.
You can't undo marriages, you know?
You can't do that.
I mean, my marriage would not be in trouble, but the future of...
No, it's...
My marriage is already in trouble.
Is it, Jim?
That's another offer.
I hate to hear that because I'm very fond of Dan.
No, no, no.
We will be together 30 years next year.
He's so handsome.
You put a picture on Facebook the other day.
Well, can I just tell you that?
We're together 30 years in March.
That's kind of like, are you kidding me?
Like 26 of those were illegal.
Huh?
How long have you been married?
Three years?
We've been married five years, but we've been together since 1988.
Where did you get married five years ago?
In New York.
It was legal five years already in New York?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
We got married.
That was before it was national.
And we got married at the Metropolitan Club, which was the former Gotham Comedy Club.
Oh, yeah.
We had six of our friends from Broadway, including Mr. Rick Crome, sing at our weddings.
Nice.
Rick sang.
Look at all the energy that goes into Right to Life stuff.
I mean, it's organizations and raising money.
I don't see any of this for gay marriage.
Before I go completely, how much did you love the documentary about Rick?
Oh, it's fantastic. I haven't watched it yet
is it
is it worth watching
I enjoyed it
but partially I enjoyed it
because it does a lot
about the history
of the comedy cell
yeah exactly
it won the people's choice award
out of a hundred
and eleven documentaries
at that fucking festival
you know what
I really want to see it
and I
I got to open for Rick once
and I was so
thrilled by it because I was like oh this Rick once. I was so thrilled by it.
I was thrilled with the way
we all came across.
Where can I watch this thing?
Is it on Netflix or anything?
Not yet.
I hope that all of the listeners
of this radio show
get to see this documentary
called Oh Rick.
I've got to go do my spot
at the Village Underground.
The world famous Village Underground Underground, the world-famous Village Underground
at the world-famous Comedy Cellar
in New York City.
Thank you for having me.
I think he's going to be late for his spot.
You know, just can we briefly talk about...
Good to see you, my friend.
Now, so, Pan, you did mention...
I love that name.
You're also a stand-up comic.
Yeah.
How much do your politics and your work...
Zero.
So it has nothing to do with...
I will tell you why.
For two reasons.
First of all, I have this day job in which I'm a New York Times reporter.
So I can't...
Nor would I want to.
I can't talk about politics that much.
At least not in an unobjective way.
The second of which is that...
You don't have to be objective as a stand-up comedian.
Right, but I have to be objective as a New York Times reporter.
Oh, I got you. Okay.
Okay, the second thing is not everyone does politics for the same reason
as Jimmy Fallon has displayed.
And the reason I do comedy is not because I'm interested in talking about politics.
I mean, you guys have all seen the Village Underground open mics
or the Climat open mics or the, you know, the Bringer shows and whatnot.
We don't have open mics or Bringer shows, just for the record.
But go ahead.
Right.
Fair.
Fair.
My point is, like, I don't do comedy for the same reason.
I like to talk about race issues, and I like to talk about who I am.
That's political.
Now we're talking.
Now we are talking.
Yeah, right.
And so for me, I, you know, I lived. Noam loves racial. Now we are talking. Yeah, right. And so for me,
I lived... Noam loves racial issues.
Yeah.
His favorite topic.
For two years,
I covered the Trump campaign
for 24-7
for two years,
a year and a half,
two years.
That was my life.
And the last thing
I want to do
is joke about that stuff.
So you talk about racial issues.
What about them?
Now you're a person of color.
You're an Indian extraction.
Yeah, right.
So here's a joke I will tell.
You want to give us one of your bits?
This is not a bit.
This is a true story that happened,
is that when I was covering Trump,
literally a Trump supporter came up to me
and asked me if I was,
I was taking pictures of the long line
outside of a rally in Reno,
and a Trump supporter came up to me
in front of a number of Trump supporters
and asked me if I was shooting photographs
on behalf of ISIS.
Okay, well
that was
very offensive to me, of course,
as it should be, but also
amazing comedy. That's less
about the politics of Trump and more of like, this is a
real thing that happened to me. And that is
something I talk about in my comedy.
Was he making fun of you or was it a serious
question? Who cares?
I hate that answer.
I want to understand.
But it didn't
seem like he was joking when he asked me.
But if he was joking, I didn't care.
It's not something, even if you are joking, you ask
someone that's a stranger that you don't know anything about.
No, I'll tell you why. If he's making
fun of you, then that's a particular
kind of rudeness if he's serious
he's like a crazy person
I'm just curious
what it was
I don't know
imagine you thought about it
at first
I was like
now if he was like
no no I'm just kidding with you
but no he kept asking
he kept repeatedly asking
and just to be clear
you weren't taking pictures
for ISIS
well I mean
he caught me
is the thing
you know
that's what bothered me
the most about it.
And then at another Trump rally, somebody asked me, interrupted an interview I was doing
and flipped me off and said, why don't you go back to Iraq where you came from?
A, I'm not Iraqi.
B, I've never been to Iraq.
C, I'm Indian.
D, I've never even been to India.
You know what I mean?
I was born outside of Boston.
I brought up here in the US. I've never even been to India. You know what I mean? Like, I was born outside of Boston. I brought up here in the U.S. I've never even... Do you believe...
Listen, obviously that's offensive and
reprehensible. Do you believe that
there's a home for racists and bigots
on the left as well?
Yeah, sure.
I think that's right. Is it clear that there is?
I don't think... Were you aware of the
Dyke March or the Women's March, whatever they called it?
Did they call it? I don't want to use the word Dyke.
I think they called it the Dyke March.
I believe they did.
Where they wouldn't let anybody march with a Jewish star?
I was not aware of that.
Dude, how could you not be aware of this stuff?
The point is, your comedy focuses a lot on you.
Myself and who I am as a person. Less about politics.
But also on your experience as a person
of color. Yes. I think that's right.
And in particular,
people thinking that you're a Muslim.
Well, I'm not Muslim. I'm Hindu. I understand that.
But people perceive you that way.
Some people perceive me that way.
But very limited.
You look just like my wife's brother.
My wife's Indian.
And she got held up at the airport
for like a half an hour
and they're asking her questions
because her last name was Bihari
before we got married
and Bihari can apparently be
a Muslim or a Hindu name.
And so, yeah,
my kids are quarter Indian
so I'm not, you know,
making fun of the fact they're Indian.
I just try to understand
things.
I never look at it that way.
I more look at it as like, I do humor
that's authentic to who I am.
And whether that's talking about
race issues I dealt with covering the campaign
or just like
an everyday thing. I don't know.
As long as it's authentic to who I am.
I don't talk that much about politics.
Not because I'm afraid to talk about it,
but it's just, you know, I think about politics all the time and I don't talk that much about politics, not because I'm afraid to talk about it, but it's just, you know, I
think about politics all the time, and I don't
want to...
I want my comedy to be a break
from that, if that makes sense. You know what I mean?
In a way that Trevor Noah,
you know, Seth Meyers, those guys
don't have that option. You know, they have to
talk about politics. And
for me, I don't... For me, comedy's
almost a form of therapy, and I don't... I want to talk about what I want to talk about. Can you just, comedy is almost a form of therapy.
I want to talk about what I want to talk about. Can you just give us a little glimpse into what things
about you that you consider to be
particularly interesting?
Sure. Absolutely.
For the thing I was saying, one thing,
because my parents got arranged to get married in India
and they had a horrible marriage,
and I rejected
everything that was brown about me.
So I grew up in a kind of always,
even though I was brought up by Indian parents,
I always kind of like pretended I was white.
And that's something that figures in a lot in my comedy.
Second part of that is that I've only,
I've mostly dated white people in my life.
And, you know, I joke.
White women, I'm assuming.
Yes.
Heterosexual. Right. One of the jokes I make is that like, you know, I've mostly dated white women in my life. White women, I'm assuming. Yes. Heterosexual.
One of the jokes I make is that I've mostly dated white women in my life, and it's not
because I'm racist, it's because I know what it takes to get ahead.
I want a mixed baby,
and the baby is...
And I want a baby that's brown enough to get financial aid
to college, but white enough to get promoted
in the job after. And it's not because...
This is a joke. Yeah.
Because it makes sense to me. Yeah, right. Makes sense to my kids. And it's not because... This is a joke. Yeah, this is a joke. Because it makes sense to me.
Yeah, right.
It makes sense to my kids.
And I'm not telling those jokes
because, like,
do I actually think that, like,
have I been, like,
restricted because of my race?
No, I, you know,
sometimes maybe,
but not,
or it's more because
I think it's a fucking funny joke.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's what I think about.
So,
but my experience on this planet of Earth is more about,
this is my personal experience, more than it is about,
there are comedians that I see that are like,
okay, they want to talk about peanuts on an airplane.
They want to go follow Jerry Seinfeld.
I love peanuts on airplane jokes.
Yeah.
Follow the Jerry Seinfeld route.
And that's not me. But they're also the Jon Stewart, Trevor Noah school. I want Jerry Seinfeld route. And that's not me.
But they're also the Jon Stewart, Trevor Noah school.
I want to talk about the current event.
That's not me.
Which is why I find it fascinating that Jimmy Fallon has taken such a drop in ratings.
Because he's not political.
Even though he's never been a political comic.
And it would be inauthentic for him to be political.
People are...
This is a...
Unprecedented. And it would be inauthentic for him to be political. People are, this is a, I've never seen the country like this in terms of the hunger for politics.
You're right.
And it also is interesting because Colbert was such a virtuoso on the Colbert Report.
Yeah, right.
And then he was kind of a fish out of water trying to do this.
That first year, yeah.
Because he was trying to be like Jimmy Fallon.
But then God intervened
on his behalf
and made Trump
president
and now he's able
to be
the talent
that he is
and he's an amazing
talent at that
you've seen
approximately
a million comics
here at the
Comedy Cellar
audiences
you
and you
you guys
you guys
sniff out
inauthenticity
whatever the word is you guys sent out youauthenticity. Whatever the word is.
You guys sent out.
Disingenuity is the word I'm looking for.
Are you kidding me?
You guys sniffed that out in a second.
And that was Colbert in his first year.
I've got to be honest with you.
I think you're giving us too much credit for sniffing out inauthenticity.
Really?
And even if we do think somebody's inauthentic, we don't care.
Because the rule here at the Cellar is if the audience is howling, you get booked.
But if the audience is not
howling... Well, hold on. Let me rephrase that.
But audiences can
sniff out inauthenticity.
Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong.
I think you are wrong. I see a lot of inauthenticity.
I don't. I agree with you.
Really? If someone goes on stage trying to be
Jerry Seinfeld, unless they're actually
legitimately interested in observational humor, they're not going to get laughs.
And I have tried to be
in my heart. Early on, I was like,
I'm going to tell a joke about, oh, can you believe
the iPhone chargers?
And the audience
has to laugh because that's not who I am. But when I talk
about myself, they laugh.
I do see a lot of comics
that pretend
to be the angry guy.
Yeah, right.
And I'm not buying the anger, but the audience is buying the anger.
Sometimes.
Really?
Sometimes.
I know what you're talking about sometimes.
That's a school of thought.
That's a school of comedy that I've seen on a couple of occasions.
Is it possible that you're buying the anger, but not buying whether the joke is any good or not?
I'm not buying the anger.
I'm not buying the anger.
In many, many cases.
If a politician is clearly inauthentic,
is it okay to belittle them?
Ask that again?
If a politician is clearly inauthentic,
is it okay to put them down for it?
I think that for a comic...
You know, faking.
A politician, though.
I mean, aren't all politicians inauthentic on some level?
Who's the most genuine, authentic politician that you can tell me?
Obama is very authentic.
A lot of them were authentic.
Bush.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
If you think that any politician is wholly authentic, that's it.
No human is wholly authentic.
And I'm saying in general.
Okay, okay.
I'm sorry.
Any politician that is out there, they are trying to
maybe that's a cynicism in me
from covering politics, but the truth
is every single politician
out there is on some level
not authentic.
If you can catch them being inauthentic, is it okay to point
it out? Sure.
That's what Trump did with Elizabeth Warren.
That's a different set of issues.
No one disagrees with him
pointing out the inauthenticity.
You saw that coming around.
I didn't see that.
You didn't see it coming around.
Some may feel he did it in a way
that was offensive.
It was rude.
I do want to just get back
to you dating white chicks.
Yeah, sure.
I actually wrote a piece about this
for The Times.
The reason I have
predominantly dated white women, and there's no real
reason this happened. I've also dated minorities.
It is
early on, you know, when I was in my early
20s, I
rejected my
culture. I did. It's true.
You should talk about that on stage because that's interesting.
I do. That's why I do
comedy because I like talking about this stuff
because it's a form of therapy for me.
Because I looked at my parents.
When we reject your culture, it's a problem,
but you do it if you get a pass.
Because I looked at my parents who were Hindu
and got arranged to get married and they had a bad marriage,
and I said, oh, I don't want that.
But I looked at my Catholic friends and my Christian friends
and my Protestant friends and my Methodist friends,
and I said, oh,
they don't seem to have those issues. Well, is that
why you rejected your heritage?
Because your parents had a bad marriage? Yes.
Because there are a lot of bad marriages out there.
How many bad marriages are
because of arranged marriages?
Not many. Because I will tell you this,
this is a truth.
Arranged marriages typically don't,
so when an arranged marriage does not go well, that's a rarity.
Because in my culture, in Indian culture, when you get arranged to get married, it's more of a transactional arrangement than a marriage out of love.
And it usually works out?
Yes.
That's shocking.
Yeah, it's true.
So they're happy?
So my mom and dad
were an
aberration of sorts. But when
you're the kid of that aberration, you're like,
oh, God, that's not what I want. There was nothing else going?
Did you grow up in a majority white
town? Yes, 90%
white. Well, that would do it, too. Yeah,
totally. Absolutely. 100%.
And part of the issue was that I grew up around mostly white people.
And I'm looking around at my best friends, and their parents are happily married.
And so my brother, who's 10 years older than me, he got married to a Catholic.
He had a Catholic ceremony.
And my parents, my mom in particular, was not very happy about that marriage because it wasn't an Indian
marriage. And I was like
why? How dare
you? How dare you
pass judgment on
another marriage when you were
you know, when you were
a failure of your own marriage. And so my
initial reaction was like
well, that's why I'm going to reject my own culture.
And that's what I talk a lot about.
That's why I do comedy.
Okay, you talked about being pushed away from Indian women.
What about being pulled toward white women?
The reason I feel like I have mostly dated...
Could you imagine if Trump had said that?
But go ahead.
Well, you know, if he becomes president...
A beautiful Indian woman can be absolutely dazzling.
For the early part of my 20s,
I very much rejected
a lot of cultures
and I was like,
okay, you know.
Which ones did you reject?
I didn't reject.
Reject is not the right word.
I just was like,
I don't want to date
someone Indian
because look at what
my Indian upbringing
has got me.
It got me Indian divorcee parents.
It got me a lot of, you know, not to get too angsty here, but that's just how it is.
I was like, oh, man, I was like alone growing up.
My parents got divorced.
I would date anyone who's not Indian.
That's how it is.
And now that I'm older, I'm like, okay, okay, now ease up on that.
You know, it's just a maturity thing, I think.
I'm going to India this summer for the first time in my life.
I've never visited in my life.
My dad lives there.
I'm going to visit him.
I want to go there, too.
Come with me.
A friend of mine is getting married there, and that's what precipitated the trip.
Indian weddings are awesome, right?
On the elephants and everything?
They're fun.
They're fun.
I've only been to one.
I didn't have an elephant.
A lot of them do, though. They really have elephants, right? Some of them do They're fun. I've only been to one. Didn't have an elephant, but... A lot of them do, though.
They really have elephants, right?
Some of them do, yeah.
Some have horses.
It just depends.
By the way, Bitcoin is now at...
It's been a very rough, very volatile day with Bitcoin.
Very angst-ridden day for me.
You have one coin.
I know, but one coin.
But given my net worth, that one coin is more meaningful than it would be for you.
You should not have bought a Bitcoin.
But it was up to $11,500 earlier.
Now it's at $10,298.
But you bought it at five?
I bought it at seven.
At seven.
I bought it at seven.
So I'm up over three grand.
Sell, Dan.
Sell.
What's the fun in that?
Oh, well, the fun is you don't have to sweat your net worth.
Yeah, but it's not going to kill me if I lose it, but it's enough to make me nervous.
But it's also invigorating.
I find it very exciting.
I just like the idea that I'm kind of in on something.
It's kind of exciting.
Everybody's talking about it.
I mean, in the general news, I read a lot about it online.
Are you hearing about Bitcoin?
Yeah, yeah.
It's in my feed all the time, and I think about you all the time.
So it's just something that I feel like I'm involved in that's kind of exciting.
I missed out on everything else.
The internet, when it came out, I was like, I didn't get the internet until like 2002.
I didn't get email until like late.
So I figured, well, maybe I'm in on something.
If it ever becomes something, I'm one of the relatively early adopters.
You were one of the relatively early adopters of the internet.
No, no, relatively early adopters of Bitcoin compared to...
Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
That's my fault.
That's my fault.
Only 1% of people right now own any Bitcoin, approximately.
You mean Bitcoin's on the way up, is my point.
I don't know if it is or it isn't, but I want to be there if it goes up.
Yeah, right.
And if it doesn't go up, I'm going to lie to you and tell you I pulled out anyway before
the crash.
Right.
Because I don't want to be humiliated.
Soapin.
Yeah.
Do you hear any gossip at the time?
Did you know about the Louis story
before it came out?
No, I did not.
What do you think? Was that an honest
answer? He's not in the comedy.
Why would somebody have to wait 10 seconds
before they could figure out the answer?
I had heard the same rumors that everyone else did.
Did you hear the rumor that Louis had
blocked the door? No.
What rumor did you hear?
That was the rumor in Gawker.
I mean, look, the whispers about Louis had been going around for a while.
I'd heard the same rumors that everyone else did.
You heard them from comedians or you read them?
I read them.
So when you read them, it said that the girls accused him of blocking the door. When I read the New York Times story story which was written by a very valued colleague of mine.
Oh my god, I would love to have her on the show.
I'll give you
her email address. Would you really?
I would love to hear the back story.
It's awesome. But I did not
honestly, I mean,
the Gawker story from years ago was
I just never
revisited it.
You know what I mean? Not because
I was avoiding it in any way. I didn't remember the revisited it. You know what I mean? Not because I was avoiding it in any way.
It's just not.
I didn't remember the specifics of it.
But yes, I heard rumors.
There's nothing substantive that...
I would really like to speak to one of those reports.
First of all, it's the perfect show for it.
Second of all, I have so many questions about that story.
Sure.
It was insufficiently detailed, I feel.
And I'd like to find out.
Well, they got the details, I guess, that were available.
No, no, no, no.
What details do you want to know specifically?
Well, for instance, they, obviously, they spoke.
Well, I don't know, obviously.
I presume they spoke to these women.
Sure,
I think a couple of them are on the record.
Yeah,
so,
there was all kinds of questions that I would
wonder about,
like,
did they feel threatened?
Did they,
uh,
uh,
well,
I mean,
I think that's spoken to in the piece,
right?
I mean,
no,
no,
like in the two,
in the,
in the women that were in,
in,
uh,
was it in Aspen? Aspen, yeah. Yeah, and two, in the women that were in, was it in Aspen?
Aspen, yeah.
Yeah, and he asked
if he could do it
and they left
and he did it anyway.
It's not really clear
what happened,
why they didn't leave.
There's a lot of,
I mean, maybe...
It's a power dynamic issue, right?
What?
I mean, it's a power
dynamic issue, right?
I mean, you're in the room of one of the most famous comedians in the world.
He wasn't famous at that time.
And even if he was, a famous man has a right to get laid like everybody else.
But he wasn't famous at that time.
He was not.
But if he were, famous people can get laid.
Yeah, I know if he were.
But to answer your point, he wasn't.
He wasn't.
He was respected enough, but wasn't famous.
Sure.
I mean, I... Which is part of why... Here, exactly what you're doing now is like, He was respected enough, but wasn't famous. Sure.
Which is part of why exactly what you're doing now.
I'd like to ask, what about that?
Did that play into it? Is there some part of this
where we're superimposing
Louis' fame now
back into time and then putting it in
the minds of those girls?
Absolutely. That's part of what we're doing.
But I don't see it as particularly relevant.
Is there a situation
in which you would
masturbate in front of somebody
even if you weren't famous
without consent
no
he didn't do it without consent
well we don't know
we don't know
to me the consent
and we've talked about this
on the past episodes
I'm sorry
unless you were invited
to do so
no
I would ask
because it doesn't seem
like in any of those cases
Louis was...
Well, he did ask, and one woman said yes, and he did it.
A couple women said no, and he backed off.
One woman said no, he didn't.
And the two women in the hotel room, you know, you could argue it was ambiguous to me.
From what I've read, it didn't seem like they had any interest,
and he should have known that if he had any sense that they didn't.
But to me, that's the. Consent. Not whether he was
famous. Not whether they were less famous
than he was. That to me is of no relevance. The issue
to me is simply, and the
entire issue hinges on whether
they were consenting.
That to me is the entire issue.
I would also like to say, Lou, if you're listening,
use your judgment with all that shit
I talked about with the white chicks and hooters, etc.
If you think it's a little iffy, take it out.
If you think it's good, leave it in.
Do you have any comment on what Dan just said about
No. I mean,
I don't. I will only say
that Louis came out and said
all the stories were true.
And I will say
that
I mean,
I
It's interesting. I mean, I...
It's interesting. I mean,
these stories about Louis have been circulating for years,
as I'm sure you guys know.
One story. I only know about one
story circulating, and it was the same story over and over.
And I only know from the Gawker. I never heard it here.
Ever. Ever from anybody. But go ahead.
Ever. Ever. Not once. Really?
I mean, I'm not doubting it. I'm sure that's true.
I don't know. I found out about it, like, Dan had heard it,
but I'd never heard it except when it was on the internet,
when it kind of went viral.
That's when I heard it.
Yeah, no, I don't have much more to say on that
other than, you know, I'm curious how,
what Louis does in the next couple of years.
Now, leaving Louis for a second,
it is so interesting now
that you have so many different
flavors of this coming out
and it's very difficult
to create a consistent principle
that ought to guide
the public in terms of
how to react to things.
For instance, Al Franken.
Now, Al Franken said,
you know, I'm a warm guy
and I like to hug people. And if I, you saw that? And if I, and Franken said, you know, I'm a warm guy and I like to hug people.
And if I, you saw that?
Now, has there ever been a more ridiculous thing said?
Like, imagine if Trump had said that.
What does liking to hug people have to do with grabbing girls' asses?
What kind of disbelief do we have to suspend here in order to understand that a guy who's grabbed, serially grabbed girls' asses is saying, well, you know, I like to hug people.
That's, I mean, that's, how did he not get laughed out of, out of, out of the public
court on this?
I don't, by the way, I don't think he should resign, but I'm just saying that is just a
ridiculous statement, no?
I'm certainly curious.
I mean, I, I, I, you know, I think there are a lot of people that are curious how the Al Frank thing
turns out. Isn't that one statement
on the face of it just
one of the most absurd things anybody
has ever said?
As an excuse for
a major...
Again, I don't know the answer to that.
What if he was accused of pickpocketing? He says,
well, you know, I love to hug people.
But what does that have to do with stealing their wallet?
You're grabbing girls' asses.
Yeah, I'm curious about the reaction from fellow Democrats.
Yeah, or John Conyers.
He's an icon.
John Conyers, right.
Look how much criticism Nancy Pelosi took from this.
Yeah.
But nobody's asking him to resign.
I agree with you.
We just don't know.
I mean, this is on many levels uncharted territory.
Will Netflix drop a John Conyers documentary
like they drop a Louis special?
No.
Is there a John Conyers documentary?
I'm just saying they wouldn't.
There's a Chris Brown reality show that they're still doing.
There is a Chris Brown reality show.
They haven't dropped that, have they?
That's right.
No, I don't know anything about that.
So there's no...
I tend to be very liberal about all this stuff.
I think that the politicians should all stay in office
and leave it up to the voters.
Right.
And I think that Netflix should leave everything on the thing
and leave it up to the people who want to stream it or not.
So you don't have...
So you had an issue with HBO removing all Louis C.K. specials and whatnot.
I have a tremendous issue with it.
I think it's totally phony.
I don't think they couldn't care less.
It's just a...
You think it was just a PR play.
Well, they're putting their finger to the wind and saying what...
Listen, this is important because I thought of this today.
And then you say whatever you want.
There is a group, I forget what they're called.
For some reason, the name Vulture is coming to mind, but I don't know if that's correct.
It's a feminist organization that threatened
boycotts, and
apparently they were
the outfit which
finally scared Fox enough
that they decided
to get rid of O'Reilly. And there was someone else
that I think they were able to get
taken out. They organized boycotts.
And I
clearly, I think HBO and Netflix, they're very aware of this organization.
And I believe that HBO and Netflix rightfully was like, you know what?
We cannot risk any kind of movement to boycott our network by holding on to this guy.
So let's just really show.
And I think that's what they did.
But you said you have an issue with them pulling Louis' stuff.
But then you said, well, if they have a business reason to do so, it's okay.
But, I mean, is that what you're saying?
Yes.
No, I'm not saying it's okay.
Well, they can do whatever they want.
I'm saying it's cowardly.
Right.
And they dress it up as integrity.
But they're doing this for business reasons.
And you're a very dollars and cents guy, you know, in terms of the way you run your business.
Is there a place for taking a stand or should it all be about the balance sheet and the stockholders?
I think there is a place for taking a stand.
I think they could have taken a stand and I think they could have gotten away with it.
And they could always back down if they didn't get away with it.
I don't think they would have to be irreparable.
Well, it might have been a wrong business decision,
but it was a business decision.
If you felt that putting Louis on would seriously affect your bottom line
in a way that you would feel, would you put him on anyway?
At some point, no.
At some point, I would have to think,
but I don't think that's a realistic thing.
I don't think it would affect my bottom line.
I don't think it would affect HBO's bottom line.
And I think that they could have made a statement explaining why they're not going to do it.
I mean, I understood why they dropped the movie.
I don't know. I have a big problem with all of it because, as I said, because there's no
strand of consistency that I can draw
through all the incidents in society
and say, okay, well, this is how
as a society we've decided to deal with
these things.
And it just seems very haphazard,
you know?
I don't have much more to add.
He's worried because he works
for a newspaper.
But Matt Lauer.
How long have we been on the air, by the way?
Well, I'll give you a lecture because I know you might want to cut something out.
Okay.
Well, I think we have quite a bit extra, but yeah, go ahead.
Matt Lauer.
That's just an amazing thing, right?
Like, apparently there's, and this is the most interesting thing about all of it.
We lost you so bad, I think you're getting bored.
No, no, no.
What's fascinating about this is that every one of these guys so far,
they have their go-to, I called it HPF.
Oh, we're going to end right now.
We have this.
They have an HPF, harassment, HFP, harassment fingerprint.
And they do it over and over and over in the same way.
So Frankenstein is grabbing asses,
and Louis' thing is beating off in front of them,
and Weinstein's thing, whatever.
And Matt Lauer's thing, apparently,
was it Charlie Rose's, the bathrobe move.
And Kanye's had his walk around in his underwear move.
It's just a very fascinating insight into psychology.
I got nothing more than that, but I enjoy it.
So you're asking what was Lauer's fingerprint?
No, I'm just saying, whatever it is, there will be.
There will be one.
I read the Variety story today.
I imagine there's some more reporting coming out about it.
I'm interested to see what else.
I will only say I worked at NBC for two years
for a rock center, Brian Williams.
I dealt with Matt, you know, very briefly,
and he was very nice, and from my understanding...
Everybody says he's nice.
You know, I was pretty surprised by the allegations,
but I'm curious to see what all the reporting comes out about.
Apparently he had a button in his room to lock the door.
Yeah, right, that came out in the Variety story.
Well, but look, Letterman had his own thing.
It's all about consent. It's really all about consent in the end.
A button locking the door is not to me outrageous.
No, not as long
as she's willing
to be in there.
Okay, we have to wrap it up.
I'm sorry I gave you
a hard time about the
whatever it was
I was yelling about.
Oh, you're fine.
About gay marriage.
But it's a pleasure
to meet you.
I'd love to see
your YouTube clip
or something like that.
Maybe you would
want to perform here.
I'd love to.
That would be great.
Because I would love to have a New York Times reporter
reporting here so I could just bash you every day
and have you yell at me about politics
because I'd love nothing more.
Dan?
Well, Bitcoin's at $10,300,
but by the time you hear this broadcast,
it might be at zero.
It could be at 20.
Who the hell knows?
The volatility is insane with this thing.
I'm shorting Bitcoin.
Well,
that's a pretty sophisticated move. I think they're actually going to be selling futures on
Bitcoin, so you can
bet against it. I would love to short Bitcoin so I can set up
a situation where what's good for me
is bad for you and vice versa.
That would be a nice dynamic for the show.
I really am sorry if I got a little carried away.
No, not at all. Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Well, because my right hand, I can't reach him, so I have to go like this got a little carried away. No, not at all. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Look at how he shakes hands.
All right.
Well, because it's my right hand, I can't reach him, so I have to go like this.
It doesn't matter.
You have to die trying.
It's dishonorable to shake hands with a backhanded left hand.
Okay.
Especially in his culture, Indians, you don't even shake hands with your left hand, right?
I don't know that.
You don't know that?
No, that's how non-Indian I am, I guess. Isn't this like the untouchable?
Well, Indians are in, if I may say so. You don't know what? No, that's how non-Indian I am, I guess. Isn't this like the untouchable? Well, Indians are in, if I may say so.
You don't know what I'm referring to?
Because they wipe their... No.
I'll have to Google that.
It's the best time to be...
I learned that in high school.
Okay.
It's the best time to be Indian in America right now.
Not American Indian, but Indian American.
Yeah, yeah, like my family.
They're becoming really hip and really cool, and we hope that continues. Well, yeah, like my family. They're becoming really hip and really cool and we hope that continues.
Well, thank you for having me.
Sopan Deb.
Good night, everybody.