The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Ted Lange, John Joseph and Black Lives Matter

Episode Date: June 29, 2020

Ted Lange, John Joseph and Black Lives Matter

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the Table, the official podcast of New York's world-famous comedy cellar, coming at you on SiriusXM 99, and the Riotcast Podcast Network. This is Dan Natterman, host of Live from the Table. Co-host, I should say, because the other co-host is Noam Dorman, who's here. Noam, hello.

Hi. Noam is the owner of the Comedy Cellar, as well as the Village Underground, as well as Comedy Cellar Vegas. The list goes... No, that's about it. Periel Ashenbrand, our producer, is here. And our dear friend, Comedy Cellar regular,

John Joseph, as seen in the movies Mall Cop 2 with Kevin James. He's been on The View, Comedy Central, and he's here with us, a dear old friend. John Joseph, how do you do? I'm doing great. How are you guys? John, I haven't seen you since lockdown, so it's good to see you. I mean, I'm seeing a lot of people on these podcasts for the first time since lockdown.

When was the last time you were on stage? Well, I've done some Zoom shows. The last time I was on stage was at the Comedy Cellar just before lockdown, March 15th or something like that. Yeah, I got March 8th. I don't really miss it. I know a lot of comics say they miss it. I've been writing.

I've been reading. I have things to do. I could use a paycheck, but as far as being on stage, it doesn't bother me. That's the missing part. You know, here's the thing with this whole pandemic. When I was on ships and I'd be in the middle of the ocean, I have a hundred witnesses that said, what did you say? And I always say the same thing. What I would give for just a few days home. This road stuff is killing me. So I got the few days home.

I just forgot in that sentence to say and keep my income coming in. Well, you can get unemployment, though, John. I assume you've applied for that. I'm the nosy, but when that 600 runs out July 31st, a lot of entertainers are going to be screwed. Well, they might, they might renew it. I mean, if, if we're still in this situation, I assume that they'll get worse. Pardon?

Getting worse. What's getting worse? Did you, did you see what happened in Florida and California? Just them alone, over 12,000 new cases today. Well, I've read about new cases, but I've also read that there's less hospitalizations and mortalities. Because they're getting younger kids. So what's happening is the younger kids, they're going to bars in Florida, California. So they don't get so sick that they have to go to the hospital. They go home to their mother and father and kill them.

Well, we'll see. We'll see if they, hopefully that won't happen. But by the way, John, you mentioned cruise ships. I don't know if you know who our guest is tonight. He's coming at 7.30. Did you hear? No. Ted Lange. Does that name ring a bell? Ted Lange. Does not ring a bell, but my bells are loose anyway. Have you ever watched The Love Boat? Oh, of course. I know Ted. I mean, I don't know Ted, but of course I know

him from The Love Boat. Yeah, he's the bartender on The Love Boat, and he's coming on. I thought it'd be fun to have you on because you are on cruises a lot of the time. And as we know, they're nothing like what you saw in The Love Boat. We'll talk about that later. All right.

So we'll get to that when he comes. But I'm glad you know who he is. That would have been awful if you said, you know, I never saw the show. Let me ask you something. Wasn't he in that movie Towering Inferno 2? Was he? He was in Towering Inferno? I don't know.

You can ask him that when he comes. Might have been. Everybody was in that movie. It was a cast ofno. I don't know. You can ask him that when he comes. Might have been. Everybody was in that movie was a cast of thousands. I don't know. He might have been. No, no. How are you doing? You've been silent. I don't know. It looks like you had. I just had a fight with my daughter. So I'm annoyed. Oh, what happened? I can't talk about it. But you've come to the right place because John Joseph and this is one of my talking points, is unique among comedians. I mean, I don't want to get into the gory details, but we hear a lot about comedians that are,

shall we say, booty hounds, and that's been in the news this week. John Joseph is the opposite. John Joseph has been married to the same woman for 40 years or so, has two daughters that both adore him, with whom he has

a great relationship. It can be done, folks. And they love him and they don't hate him and they don't... And he encourages them and they love what you do. One has to wonder what's really going on because it seems too good to be true.

It is too good to be true. My daughters are all having affairs. My wife is having an affair. I'm the only one that doesn't have affairs. It is too good to be true. It's the best thing that ever happened to me. And I love being home. I just, I mean,

I would love nothing more than to do seven nights running down to the cellar and doing sets and coming home and never seeing another airplane again or hotel ever. But that can't happen because you can't afford it. Where are you? I'm on Long Island. I'm not sure when the cellar is opening again.

Well, I just saw that. I just saw on Instagram pictures of the cellar. The restaurant, the Olive Tree Cafe, is open for outside, right? I just saw a picture. Today we open. Well, here's the thing. They're going to phase three. I'm on phase three today in Long Island.

And they said they're going to hit phase four by the end of July. But they're holding out exceptions for malls, theaters, and spas, gymnasiums, whatever. All spas are just, yeah, spas, yeah. Massage parlors, spas, yeah. But they can't close longer than August, past phase four. The only thing they might say is you can only have half a house.

Well, if the numbers keep going up, they're going to have to roll it back, aren't they? Well, the numbers in New York are the lowest they've ever been. In fact, they're the lowest anywhere. Yeah. You know, I mean, two days ago, there was 10 deaths in all of New York State. Now, we don't want any.

We don't even want one. But 10 is a lot better than what they're getting in Arizona and Alabama. I had to give out 10 every day. I think I could do a good job. But anyway, go ahead. You're right. We don't want none. I could distribute 10, I think.

And I might do the world a lot of good, too. But I guess, you know, if we say you don't want any, I get it. We don't want any. We don't want any. Exactly. But we're really low, which is great. So there's no reason not to open. And today, Cuomo quarantined anybody coming into New York from any state like Florida, Arizona, Utah, Alabama.

Anybody who's not down to 10% of their population. Just as I came on it, I just read over the last two weeks, cases have risen 84% in states that don't require masks and dropped by 25% in states that do. And listeners of this podcast know how much I love to be

right about things. And boy, was I right. Did you say wear the mask all the time? Do you know, Noam sent me an email saying, you know, if everybody had just listened to me from the beginning, we'd be in great shape. It does not surprise me. Noam has been toting masks. Not that it's any great. I mean,

it's not like you discovered something completely out of left field. But Noam has been touting wearing masks. And again, I don't think anyone disagreed with him. No. Yes, people did disagree. They didn't understand how effective it would be. And I uncovered studies. I was doing research long before you read about them in the news.

I was showing them to people. I had a guy that, that, that Charlotte and Alex Berenson on remember. Well, I don't know if I would call him a charlatan. A lot of what he says is correct. Some of what he says may be incorrect.

He's a charlatan because we talked about mask and he's like, Oh, I don't know about that. Send me that stuff. Remember? He's like, send that, send me that stuff.

So I sent them all the stuff and he never even responded. And his Twitter feed went on as if he never saw it. And he still, you know, I mean, I mean, he was nice, but,

um, he seems to me that he's just not, um, well, I think he has a blind spot as far as the masks are concerned, for whatever reason, everybody has their blind spots. And most people do.

That seems to be his. You know, you're going to make it hard for me to get guests if we call them charlatans on the show. Oh, come on. The guy is really too much. He's out there just saying whatever he wants and literally ignoring any data that interfer's that, you know, that interferes with his.

Isn't that like everybody nowadays? He sounds like me. I was just going to say. He's got a lot of followers and people, people, you know, the reason I I'm so bitter about it, because somebody like him was saying this stuff online and people believe him and then they go out and get sick and die. You know, this is not like, uh, uh,

some minor thing to, to be misleading people about. How did they get so political? As a country? With the masks. The masks became a political item. That's Trump's fault, I think. You don't have to think. That's an absolute 100%. But it's ridiculous. Well, everything seems to be divided on political lines. Questions that seem purely scientific somehow have become political,

like global warming, like almost everything associated with COVID. These should be just merely scientific inquiries. They've become left versus right issues. Have we ever gotten to the bottom of why global warming has divided amongst

left and right? Why left is far more apt to believe in global warming than the right? Why? No, I don't know. I mean, Noam had posed that question probably a couple of years ago, and I don't know if we've ever gotten to the bottom of it. I don't know. For the same reason. Is Noam listening? Yeah, I'm listening. I'm trying to think what the answer is. I think the left is naturally more prone and more interested in environmental issues. And then the right is less interested in the environment and, of course, more concerned with economic growth and the government not telling you what you can and can't do. So it's kind of predisposed. And the right tends to be more skeptical of doomsday scenarios like, you know, overpopulation and all that stuff.

And, you know, up until now, the right has been correct about those things, but they were certainly wrong about COVID, and they're probably wrong about global warming. I don't know. But now it's morphed also into whether or not, not so much about now it's morphed also into whether or not, not so much about whether it's happening, but there's a third thing is that whether or not market solutions wouldn't just be the best thing to just kind of let it ride. But I mean, both sides, you're right,

they both sides have their blind spots. I mean, I'm pretty right wing, but I was very serious about COVID and masks. So I like to think that I don't fall for that stuff. The mask thing is the only reason New York got this low. How people don't know that is beyond me. I mean, people aren't stupid. I don't care if it's Alabama, Arkansas. There's a lot of smart people in those places. They got to know better. You wear a mask. I used to think if I wore the mask, it protected me. But no, your mask protects me. My mask protects you, in case we don't know if we have it. The N95 actually works in both ways,

but yeah, you're right. I mean, if both people wear masks and face coverings, the chances of catching it are very, very low. Well, I don't know if you noticed, I just got a haircut because they opened haircutting on Monday, Phase 2. You look beautiful. if you noticed, I just got a haircut because they opened hair cutting on Monday, phase two. You look beautiful. Thank you. It's not a great haircut. The B team

is out. I mean, the A team is still quarantining, whatever. But I brought out the K95, the N95, for that occasion. Normally, I just wear a regular surgical mask. But I have various, it's like a golf cart, you know, where you have the golfing you have the cutter and the the driver so i got different masks for different occasions i got your formal wear mask i got you you know get your haircut mask so i wore the k95 mask because i'm going into a barber shop and meanwhile the barber i the barber he's not the barber the hair cutter guy his mask was below his nose and which is not you're supposed to be above your nose yes and i didn't say anything because i'm such a you know if i were a woman i would have been taken advantage of sexually so many times i i just i i'm not assertive i should have said put the friggin well we can say fucking but i'd say put the thing over your nose i didn't i was i was

like i don't want to make trouble. Well, that's the thing. You want to scream at someone that doesn't have their mask on. But it's going to start a riot these days. And it turns into a political riot. I mean, some of the things I've seen just going to the grocery store, it's ridiculous. I mean, people want to start a war. Guy's screaming, you can't make me wear my mask. This is America. I don't have to wear a mask. Meanwhile, he's spitting on everyone he's yelling at.

And meanwhile, if you're in my place of business, you've got to do what I tell you. Well, that's the bottom line. Did you guys follow Howard Stern's thing where he got caught saying the N-word? Right. Yeah. Well, I know he used to say it all the time back in the N-word and the... Right, yeah. Well, I know he used to say it all the time back in the day. That was a while back, yeah. Now, I'm worried

because, full disclosure, and I've said it before, I've said it on this show before, I've said the N-word. If I ever became famous, there is a... You know, we did a thing years ago

called Comedy Covers with, I think, Pete Correale and Jim Brewer produced it at Caroline's, and it was you're supposed to do other people's acts, like covers, cover songs, but with comedy. So they told, I believe it was, yeah, I didn't come up with this idea. They told me I should do the Chris Rock Black People versus Mmm bit. And I did it. And at the time, I thought it was a little bit pushing it, but I figured, hey, I'm just,

all I'm doing is saying a bit that's been said. I'm just quoting somebody else. That was a long time ago. Well, it was 10 years ago. Which is a long time for these types of things. So yeah, I said the word on stage. It's all right, Dan. It's all right.

You know, but now, I mean, I'm not famous. Nobody gives a shit, but you know but now i mean i'm not famous nobody gives a shit but you know howard stern got so howard stern got caught now not just saying the word but he's in full blackface did you see it oh that i did see i mean saying the most outrageous things but um but it was a character he was imitating ted danson he was imitating ted danson and so then in his in his radio show, I didn't listen. There's no bigger Howard Stern fan than, than me. And maybe this is the way he had to play it, or maybe he means it, or maybe it's sincere, but it bothered me. He kind of pled the fifth.

Did you hear it? He's like, well, you know, when I was young, I was, I was just kind of crazy. I was out of my mind and I needed therapy every day, every day of the week to get myself out of it. I would say anything. I probably wouldn't. I mean, no, I wouldn't do that again today, as opposed to saying, listen, it was very deep satire. I was making fun of Ted Danson. And at the time, uh, everybody, you know, everybody understood that and it was okay. Maybe it's not okay now, but it was okay then. I mean, my goodness, Ted Danson was in blackface then and he's not in trouble for it. And, uh, because what I didn't like, I don't like this taking that kind of like pleading, pleading insanity, especially because it implies if he really means that, that, I mean,

that's how he became famous right so would he trade in all the fame and fortune if all the crazy stuff he used to do is because he was needed therapy and he's so happy he got therapy does he wish that he had therapy um before he did all that stuff so then he would have maybe never gotten rich and famous as he did does he think he could have become as famous as he was without doing the crazy stuff? And I don't think he did anything wrong by 1999 standards or whatever it was. He was really reaming. He was tearing dead Ted Danson, a new one.

He was like, you're full of shit. Just because Whoopi tells you you can say it doesn't mean you can say it. I kind of remember that. He was on the side of good and right in that satire, even though he was using the N-word and dressed in blackface. His intention was anti-racist, I would say. And I think the N-word back then, I mean, a lot has changed with regard to the N-word.

You can't quote it now. I believe 10 years ago on the news, say if there was a story on the news, couldn't a newscaster say so-and-so called so-and-so and use the N-word? Yeah, I mean, they use it on Saturday Night Live. Look, they've gotten so crazy now. Okay, so we just saw not long ago this horrible video of George Floyd being murdered, right?

And we saw it everywhere. And then today, so Trump in his speech in, was it Tulsa? He's joking around and he refers to the COVID as Kung Flu, right? Because it's Chinese, Kung Flu, which is, yeah, it's a, I don't like that. I don't like that he said that. It's not, I wouldn't mind. I don't think it's a, I don't like that. I don't like that he said that. It's not, I wouldn't mind. I don't think it's a terrible joke to say between us. I mean, I don't think it means anything like,

I mean, if it was like an oive flu, we might say that too, if that somehow worked. But for the president to say it, I think it's really pretty disgusting. But anyway, the news reports will not quote the slur. They say, and he used a racist slur to refer to the COVID. So they cannot repeat Kung Flu,

but they can show us the murder of George Floyd over and over and over again. Take them seriously. These fucking, I can't tell you how I hate this sanctimony, the sanctimony of the media. It's the news. They should quote the N-word. They should quote, if somebody gets caught saying it, they should be able to quote, he got caught saying it.

And you know what? If they find some new footage of Auschwitz, the camps, they should show that too, even though it's quite upsetting and quite disgusting. And I don't see why the Kung Flu or the N-word or Jews being killed in the camps or George Floyd's murder, I don't see how you distinguish between those things. They are all horrible things, which are true. And that is what the news is there to tell us about. Although it is terrible.

Don't filter me. It is terrible to be, I mean, showing those kinds of videos of George Floyd over and over and over again. I mean, there is something really exploitative and pornographic about that. There's something else. You're right.

It can overdo it too. And that's on the other side. But what I'm saying is that this filtering of things, they say, you can see this, you can see that. But this is too much for you. Kung flu. We that week. And by the way, when they say and the president used a racist term to describe the flu, your mind wanders. You know, I mean, how do you even know you did he use a really derogatory term was kung flu like you don't even know what to make of what he said so it's not how can you how can you call that reporting the news i want to know what he said that i can decide how i feel about

it not every single i mean when he when he said what was the joke uh oh when he called elizabeth warren pocahontas um that's not that different than Kung Flu. But Trevor Noah defended him for Pocahontas. If they had said he used a racist term to describe Elizabeth Warren, what would that have left us with? And how do you know? And who is in news to decide for me that it's racist? Tell me what he said and I'll decide whether I think it's racist or not. I'll decide if I think the joke is appropriate or not appropriate.

I don't need ABC. What do they have? They have some special code book that they know that this joke is racist. This joke is not. I mean, come on now. Or maybe every single, we tell Jewish jokes all the time. No, every single Jewish joke is anti-Semitic. We tell Jewish jokes because we're comics.

They expect it from us. I don't think they expect that from the president of the United States. No, of course not. But Pocahontas, well, this is where it gets subtle, because when he called Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas, he wasn't making fun of Indians, of Native Americans, forgive me. He was making fun of Elizabeth Warren. He was making fun of Elizabeth Warren and the little percentage blood she may or may not have had of Indian blood.

But to an Indian, it's embarrassing for the same reason we can't have pancakes anymore. They don't want to promote that stuff. So to me, it was the same joke as if Rachel Dolezal, for those who remember, she was the white woman who claimed she was black and was, and was pretending she was black. She was a chapter head of the NAACP or something. So, so if, if Rachel Dolezal walked into the olive tree and I said, Oh, look, Rosa Parks, that the joke would mean not I'm making fun of Rosa Parks.

I'm not making fun of black people. I'm making fun of this woman who has the nerve to claim that she's black. So that's what the Pocahontas joke was, which was what Trevor knows. Now, Kung Flu is not that. Kung Flu is just a, you know, an adolescent pun. It's an adolescent pun from the president of the United States. Leave the adolescent puns. Yeah, that's right. But I'm saying, I'm not defending Trump. I'm saying, why can't they report it?

They literally can't say it in the news, but they can show a man being murdered to death with a knee on his neck. Can you explain that to me? Yeah, ratings. It's just... That's true. That's what it is, though. It is.

It's all advertisers and... You know, the media plays both sides of the coin. It's wokeness. It's not ratings. I think it's... It plays both sides of the coin. First, they don't print the name to show, we're going to be really careful with this racist talk. But then they'll show the murderer and somebody kneeling on his neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds because people are transfixed to the TV and the ratings are going up.

Look, if they if I mean, I made this comment before. But if if if if Chauvin, was that the cop's name who killed the George Floyd? If he had yelled the N word while he was murdering this poor man, they would have bleeped out the N word. So for some, for some crime too. And the thing is like in their, in their dumb heads,

it's worse to hear him say the N word than to watch him killing him. And that just doesn't hold up. I'm sorry. It's strange. I agree. It's 100% strange. It's ridiculous. I'm so fed up with the media.

Who's been canceled? Who's been canceled this week, John? Well, you know who's been canceled. I don't know if you want to discuss it. Who? No, I know. If there's anybody we know, I don't want to discuss it.

Ted is here. I'm giving you guys a very graceful out. Ted is here. Oh. Okay okay great uh so send them in no more you have anyway we'll get to it so send them in we're here okay ted lange oh it's him hell ted oh he's had enough of us already he's connecting to audio okay ted lange Ted Lange, is that you? Yes. Ted, hello.

He's not... You know, the bandwidth out on the seas is a little... Hello, sir. Hello, how are you? Ted Lange, you came into my life about 43 years ago, and I thought it was Ted Lang until today. Oh, well, there you go. Today I have been elucidated on the matter that it is Ted Lange,

and just in time, too, because you're here. Thank you very much. And let me give you a proper introduction that our producer Perry L., who you've spoken with or tweeted texted with has written for me but i'll say with feeling in my own voice okay ted lance personifies the renaissance man theater award received from the naacp actor director prolific writer launch pen 25 plays including his black Lives Matter play and Blues in My Coffee. And I neglected to mention Shakespeare on My Shoulder,

I believe it's called. Yes. And Blues in My Coffee you can see on YouTube. Both. Shakespeare and Blues you can both see on YouTube. Shakespeare on my shoulder or over my shoulder? Shakespeare over my shoulder. Over my shoulder? Shakespeare over my shoulder. Over my shoulder. I'm sorry about that.

And blues in my coffee. We'll discuss those a little bit later. But of course, first we're going to discuss the reason that we first met. Well, I met you. You didn't meet me. And Noam has put up a porthole as a virtual. Yeah, I see that. Put a better one up. Go ahead.

Go ahead. I thought it was going to have alcohol behind it, but we'll let that go. Oh, yeah. I should have. Yeah. Was it on the love? But actually, I did see you on the one train here in Manhattan about seven years ago. I didn't say anything, but I just said, I think that's him.

You said I was there. Yeah, that was probably me. So, now we're all, by the way, in show business, Ted. Perrielle is an actress and a novelist, not a novelist, a memoirist. Noam owns a comedy club that John Joseph and I both work at as comedians. John's been in several movies, small roles mostly, but not to be discounted discounted no very true a gig is a gig that's how i look at it a gig is a gig that's right and john and i both work on cruise ships as comedians we both so we're the real life you know cruise workers at times you know a comedian named Jeff Wayne, by the way? He does a lot of cruise ships. I know the guy.

You do? Yeah. Well, I did his one-man show, Big Daddy's Barbecue. No kidding. Yes, and we turned that into a pilot for ABC TV. And? Well, there's a lot of politics

involved. I got you. It should have gone. It should have gone. But, you know, there's a lot of systemic stuff going on. And the first thing they try to do, I don't know, gentlemen, Noam and Dan and Perry L, Jeff is a white comedian. And he was doing very conservative material.

And I directed his comedy act into a one man show. And what I did was I, I gave him a bottom line, a baseline. And what I did was I, I told him he couldn't tell certain jokes, and I told him he could tell other jokes. For instance, if he told a lesbian joke, I would say, well, this isn't a good lesbian joke because lesbians will get mad.

And he would say, but that's funny. It's a funny joke. I said, no, it's funny to you. And then I said, but then this joke over here, I said, I think this joke, lesbians will laugh at that joke and they won't get mad at you. They'll just say, okay, yeah, da, da, da, da. And so that's what I did. He had black jokes, Mexican jokes, a whole slew of stuff I put together.

So he was billed as the new Archie Bunker. Okay. This was sometime after all in the family was done. About 10, 10, 12 years. And so we were on our way to doing it. But the first thing in the industry that happened was they tried to cut me

out. Cause I was a black guy with a white comedian doing conservative material and what i told him i said look you guys don't have a line you cross the line all the time you need me to show you where the line is and they told me they didn't need me. And what line are you talking about? You know, that's what they told me.

That's horrible. So we had a shot at a good, strong possibility of becoming a weekly television show, but they shot their own foot.

How would you describe where the line is? Like, do you think, if you look back at all the family now, do would you describe where the line is? Like, do you think, if you look back at all the family now, do you think they crossed the line? I think that the genius of all of the families, they had a liberal guy playing a conservative. So, you know, I had friends that worked that show, and Carol O'Connor and Norman Littler were butt heads

because Carol O'connor would say i can't no i can't do that you got to give me a different joke so carol o'connor was the line norman lear was not the line carol o'connor was the line and he drew and um do you know the story about cleavon little being the original saffron and son the original sherman helmsley role no no no saffron i'm sorry i was like blazing saddles cleavon yeah right right right right the guy richard fryer was supposed to be cleavon little now cleavon little was supposed to be uh red fox no he was supposed to be the son. Lamont. Yeah. Lamont. Yeah. So listen, here's what happened. And this will tell you about the line. Okay. Um, Cleveland is a big deal in New York. He'd just done pearly Norman Lear signs. It means I got a series for you. It's, uh, it's

about a father and son. It comes from England. it's called steptoe and son i want to use you and i gotta find a guy to play your father he's a junk man and so cleveland said well why don't you call red fox he's funny he does stand up we just did a movie together called Cotton Comes to Harlem, and he played a junk man. So then they went and got Red Fox and signed him up. Norman Lear then goes to Cleveland and says, Look, we want you to make an appearance on All in the Family and to kind of promote that we're going to have you later on in the year as the son in Sanford and Son. So he says, okay.

So they do the gig. During the filming of All in the Family, Cleavon plays a burglar. Oh, I remember that. Yeah, I remember that. And with him is another black actor playing a burglar. And Carol O'Connor. So they were writing these jokes and Carol O'Connor says to Norman, listen, I don't like the idea of this bit here, this comedy.

And Norman would say, well, no, that's funny. We want to do that. That's going to work really well, Carol. And they got into a back and forth, okay? So Cleavon is in the dressing room. They're on a break. Cleavon is in the dressing room with this other actor. I see.

And he said, hey, man, you know that what they're doing ain't right. That ain't right for black people, for us to be saying this. And he said, well, hey, I'm not the right. He said, yeah, but you're Cleavon Little. You should speak up. You should say something. Who was saying that to Cleavon? Damone Wilson.

Ta-da! Can you see my description? Damone Wilson is saying to Cleavon Little, who has a deal with Norman Lear, look, you should speak up about these black jokes. This, in particular, the one that Carol O'Connor is saying. So Cleavon goes, eh, I don't know. So they get into the rehearsal.

Oh, you found it! I found it. No, I don't know. So they get into the rehearsal. Oh, you found it. I found it. No, thank you very much. He stole a part. Yes. So they're going around the table. And Carol O'Connor says, I don't want to do this joke. I don't like this joke.

I think it's derogatory to black people. And Norman Lear turns to Cleavon Little and says, hey, what do you think of this joke? Does that work for you? Are you offended as a black person by this joke here? And Cleavon says, yeah, well, really I am. And I kind of agree with Carol O'Connor that I don't think we should do this joke. And so then he turns to Damone, Norman then turns to Damone and says,

you agree with that? And Damone Wilson said, no, I don't agree with that. That joke doesn't bother me. I'm not offended by that. That's a great story. And Cleon said he looked at this dude and went, what? You know, what what are you are you kidding me that sounds like the next thing you know clevon is out as the sun and damone is in and and by the way just to add to it for whatever i haven't i just for some reason as a kid i remember damone used to be on the i believe

on the 700 club with pat robertson he quite a religious, like a born-again Christian. Well, you know what that was about, right? Do you know about him quitting show business? No, I don't remember. There's a book called, what's the name of it? This is in a book. The Cotton Club Murders. Okay?

Cotton Club Murders. Okay? Cotton Club Murders. And in this book, it talks about how Robert Evans got the rights to do the Cotton Club. You remember the movie with Francis Ford Coppola? Cotton Club. Yeah. And so he gets the rights. The guy that had the rights was Damone Wilson's manager. He had the rights the guy that had the rights was damone wilson's manager he had the rights so they then uh get the rights and they don't have the money now this is all in the book so i'm not talking out of school they go to a lady in florida who is a cocaine dealer and she gives Robert Evans the money okay so he says you're

going to be financing the movie blah blah blah blah so she finds out she don't know nothing about show business she knows everything about drugs Cotton Club Murders you're gonna you can find this book it'll back up what I'm getting ready to tell you. So the woman finds out about show business that maybe she should get a title as executive producer since she's financing the film. So she goes to Robert Evans and she says, Hey, I want my name on there as a producer. And, and Robert Evans says, Hey, it'd be fine with me, but I don't have anything to do with it.

It's Damone Wilson's manager that you got to get him to say, okay. So she goes to the manager. He says, absolutely not. No way. You are just financing the movie. You are not a producer. I'm a producer. Bob Evans is a producer, but you're not a producer.

And Francis Coppola is the director and Gregory Hines is doing this. You're not in this and so she said she wanted to be in it so she goes back to bob and she said hey this guy she says well you have to talk to the guy you can't talk to me so what happens is the guy because she's a cocaine dealer the manager guy starts to think maybe they might try to kill me and so he tells damone this is in the book by the way she tells damone and damone said don't worry i got my gun here and he had a pearl handle nickel plated gun so i got my gun here and i'll protect you so he says well i gotta have to go i'm to go to dinner with them on Friday.

He says, well, I'll be there and I'll be in my car and I'll follow you to the restaurant. OK, so. The guys, these two men, henchmen of this cocaine dealer, go and get the manager guy. And they say, come on, we've got a limousine downstairs. So they go downstairs, get into the limousine. And he's staying in one of those apartments where they've got a curved driveway. And the manager guy gets in the back of the thing. Damone is in his car.

The limousine pulls out and as Damone pulls out to follow them, another car comes in and blocks him and he has to wait and he can't get out. The car goes on. Finally, when the

other car moves out, Damone goes up, out onto the road and he can't find the limousine. So he goes on to the restaurant where they're supposed to meet at, and he's waiting at the restaurant. They took that, that limousine took that guy out to the desert, and they put 13 bullets in his head. Jesus.

Because it was Friday the 13th. The next day, Damone Wilson quit show business and became a Reverend. That's how he got there. Wow. Wow. Insane. That's show business,

baby. That'd be a lesson to you, John Bozell. That's show. That's show business, baby. That'd be a lesson to you, John Gozal. That's show business. Is there any story, is that crazy, involving the love boat by any chance? Not as crazy as that. No, that gets to be too much. And the other story I told you, Damone told me that story on his deathbed.

I went and visited him. He was in the process of, he had cancer. And so I told him, I said, listen, Ramon, Cleavon, the reason I came out to Hollywood was because of you. I was in New York. I was writing a play. I wrote a play. And I went over to Columbia Pictures Television and they had a series called Temperatures Rising.

And they were looking for black writers because Cleavon was the star of Temperatures Rising. You may look for that one, Noam. Okay, I'm on it. All right, Temperatures Rising. So Cleavon played a doctor, and so Columbia Pictures television said, well, we're looking for black writers, and I had done a play in New York, a one-act play that was quite popular at the time. They brought me in, I pitched a couple of ideas to them, and they said to me, Ted, you know, you're on Broadway doing Ain't Supposed to Die a Natural Death. But if you were in Los Angeles, we would introduce you to William Asher, who was the executive producer of the show.

And we would, you know, we kind of get you in that way. There it is. There we go. I'm sorry. Temperature's rising. OK. Yeah. So I thought that was

Judd Hirsch It's not from Now that he's No no That's James Whitmore Yeah yeah Joan Van Ark Anyway

So They told me That if I had been If I was in LA They'd give me a gig You know As a staff writer So

I went into I was on Broadway Doing a Broadway play Called Ain't Supposed to Die A. So I went into, I was on Broadway doing a Broadway play called Ain't Supposed to Die a Natural Death. I went into the stage and I said, I quit. I'm giving you two weeks notice. He said, what? What are you doing?

I said, I quit. I'm out of here. So I then flew back after two weeks off. I flew back to Los Angeles and I called Columbia Pictures Television. I said, hey, I'm in Los Angeles. Let's arrange a meeting between me and Bill Asher. And they said, call us back tomorrow. I said, okay.

So then I called back the next day and I said, let me speak to Patricia so-and-so. And they said, well, she's out to lunch. I said, okay, call tomorrow. So I's out to lunch. I said, okay. Call tomorrow. So I called the next day. I said, can I speak to Patricia? They said, no, she's out to lunch.

And that's when I found out what the term out to lunch means when you're an actor. And you try to get something going, and you call the executive, and he's out to lunch. I called at 10 o'clock in the morning. I called at noon. I called at 1. I called at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. From that point on, that woman vanished. She was no longer around.

She was out to lunch. And there I was. I had picked up all my stuff, come to L.A. because I thought I could meet the executive producer and become a writer on this new TV series Temperatures Rising so I we have a lot of love of course I just have one question for you going back to the all in the family thing and Cleavon Little it's all very interesting and it's it we were actually talking about this stuff. So it seems to me that you can see a line in jokes allow for the intention of the joke anymore. There's certain words that can't be said, which will end.

And for that reason, I think the jokes that you thought were on the okay side of the line and all in the family and Blazing Saddles, for instance, where, my God, they use the N-word all the time. Well, that was before. You have to put things in the context of the time. Right. Well, that's what I want to ask you about. Okay, so the context of the time when Blazing Saddles was going on is,

listen, we're going to eat a plate of beans and we're going to fart on the screen. Well, at that time, you can do that. Right. So do you think we're at a better time now in terms of humor? Or would you like to go back to the time where you just judged? No, no, no. We're at a better time. We're at a better time now in terms of humor or would you or would you like to go back to the time where you just judge no no we're in a better time we're in a better time because now you're not going to call me certain names that i don't want to hear and you're not going to tell me stories that i really don't want to hear that happened to me at abc tv i was sitting with the president of ABC TV on a, we were doing a special thing. They would use the boat to do special ABC TV events.

And I'm sitting next to the president of ABC. And he says, Ted, we really love you on the show you're doing a wonderful job you know so I got a joke for you and his wife said Fred

don't tell that joke cut out Fred okay and so he says no no no tell him I like this joke I said no

it's okay you don't have to tell me the joke he says no no no no no you're gonna like this joke I said no you don't have to tell me the joke. He says, no, no, no, no, no. You're going to like this joke. I said, no, you don't have to tell me the joke. It's okay. Because I knew now when the wife said, don't tell that joke. And he had had a couple of drinks. We're sitting at the table. I'm the only black guy at the table. And she's saying, Fred,

I don't think you should tell that joke. Oh, no, no, no. So he never told the joke. And she's saying, Fred, I don't think you should tell that joke. Oh, no, no, no. So he never told the joke. Okay? Years later, I wrote a play about four black women and his son, Richard. His son. No, no, no. That's Silverman. This was Pierce.

Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. This was Pierce. So I wrote a show called Four Queens, No Trump. Four Queens, No Trump. And we want to turn it into a half hour sitcom. And Richard Pierce, his son, came down to see the show. He loved the show. He came eight times to see the show. And he came to me, he said, Ted, my daddy has a deal. We're going to make this into a TV series. I love it. I said, okay, great. He says, we're going to bring my dad down on Saturday night to see the show because he wants to see it before he came down packed theater equity waiver 99 seats

in los angeles the valley white fire theater packed theater but people are laughing their butts off and at intermission he comes out and he says uh ted my wife isn't feeling well it's kind of stuffy in there we're gonna go i went okay and then richard his son came back to me said we my father doesn't want he doesn't like the thing now why he didn't like it because what the the audience he's sitting there you're doing a demographics of the audience. The audience was laughing. Of course, primarily it was black women in the audience, but still it was a valid, it was, they were enjoying the show. There was no reason to not give this a shot unless you were pissed off

that maybe you didn't tell this guy a joke, uh, eight years before. Do you know what I'm saying? I don't know if it's true. I don't know if it's not true, but that's my feeling. Does that mean I have to listen to John Joseph's jokes now? Yes. That's exactly what it means.

But you never found out what the joke was. It was probably a Jewish joke. I didn't have to find out. You know what the joke was. It was probably a Jewish joke. I didn't have to find out. You know what the joke was. It was something where the black guy is the punchline. Being black is the punchline. That's what the joke is. What are you talking about?

So let me get, to be clear, to get your record. So you think all in the family doesn't age well then? No, I think all in the family does age well. But I think there's a balance, and part of the balance was Carol O'Connor. doesn't age well then you you would you think that no i think all in the family does age well but i think there's a balance and part of the balance was carol o'connor i i mean norman lear's taking all the bows but he had a wall to bounce his ideas off of you know and i think that's very important i uh for instance uh the play you saw blues in My Coffee. Right? Did you guys see it? Ariel probably did. Ariel,

you did. The cultural one. Did you see it? That was your homework assignment. Your homework assignment was to see Ted Lange's play Blues in My Coffee because it was going to come up. Okay. So I wrote this play Blues in My Coffee

and in it I said some things where I called women bitches. I said, well, you know, and that's from my generation of being black in Oakland, California in the 60s. We say that's a fine-ass bitch. Now, that means she's a beautiful woman. That's what I grew up in. That's a fine-ass bitch. Now, that means she's a beautiful woman. That's what I grew up in. That's a fine ass bitch. That bitch is fine. Okay? Now, some women don't want to be called bitches. They don't hear the fine ass part. They just hear the bitch part. Okay? So I sent this play out to one of my favorite actors. And I said, and he loves, he's done a half dozen of my plays. And I sent this play out to him.

But he's a younger guy. He's in his 30s, late 30s, early 40s. He said, Ted, I can't do this play. I said, why not? He said, because, man, you talk about women. I don't talk about women the way you do in this play. And I don't want to play this character because of the way you talk about women. I don't want to do that.

Now, this guy's my favorite actor. I'm coming from a different generation, so I say, well, what would you say? He says, I'd say something like this. I said, okay, that's what you say because I want that actor. I'm living in a different generation. So his line is different than my line. Okay? He's not going to call a woman a bitch.

You know? Fine ass or not. Yeah, but yours is truer to real life, to a character. Yeah, but that's not the point. The point is that the generation that I want to get in there now is offended by the term bitch. Yes. Now, if I'm just playing to, you know, 1969 audience, that's a different deal. But no, I'm trying to do things.

So, no, I'm trying to do things. So no, I have to articulate myself differently. Now, some writers don't want to do that. So in my blues play, I have a line where a black guy says to a black woman, he says, oh, you think you the shit, don't you? Just because you went to a white college and you got yourself a piece of paper with some white man's name on it, you think you the shit. Well, I had the actor say, I don't, I don't, Jesus, Ted, I don't want. So I changed it. So I said, so I changed the writing.

Oh, you think you're the holy grail of women? Well, just because you got, it didn't defer it, you think you're the Holy Grail of women. Well, just because you got going to God, it didn't defer it. You know, it didn't take away anything. I just had to find another way on how to deliver the joke. You think you're the Holy, and that's actually better. The Holy Grail, once you get into the mythology of what the Holy Grail is, it's actually a better joke. It's a much more intellectual joke. So you think you're the Holy Grail is, it's actually a better joke. It's a much more intellectual joke.

So you think you're the Holy Grail because some white guy gives you a piece of paper with their name on it, you know? Well, that's the art. That is what, if we are comedians, we don't, you're not supposed to make it easy on us because we have to reflect society through a comedic vein. So yeah, they're harder on us, yes. But if you're funny, you're funny. And you'll find another line.

You'll rewrite it. You'll work it another way to get your point over. What do you think about people going back in time and finding something you did 10, 15, 20 years ago when standards would have been more, would have been different, and judging you today by what you might have done in a different time. I think it's great.

Pull them goddamn statues down. You know, I mean, come on. These guys, these guys, you know what they say, Dan? They say that whoever wins the war writes the history books. You heard that? Yeah. It's not true for the South.

Well, I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about- No, but that's part of what's going on. It's something that their grandparents did or their great-grandparents did, and then now they're saying, well, I didn't do it. Why are you getting mad at me? Well, because you perpetuated it. You know, you've got Rand Paul in there right now won't pass a lynching law

because his relatives have probably lynched somebody somewhere along the line. And he knows I'm not passing it. He came up with some. Can I curse on this show? Yeah, this is the internet. You can do anything. Okay, he came up with some bullshit about what lynching means. I don't understand what lynching means. Everybody understands what lynching

means. Get the fuck out of here. You're telling me you don't know what lynching is? And you're going to hold up a lynching bill by two black people because you're from Kentucky and you don't want your relatives to get in trouble? Get the hell out of here. And so he comes up with a lie. That's what's going on in the streets right now. You got to stop lying and you got to come

with the truth. You got to come with the truth, man, because these people, they've been fed the bullshit for so long. they've had it. That's why they're pulling down. Andrew Jackson was an abomination to the American Indian, the Native American. He was an abomination. He put smallpox in blankets and told them to walk over here to Oklahoma. Come on, man. So the Indians, I know Indians that won't even,

if you give them a $20 bill, they give it back and ask for two tens. You know? So come on. Let's be real about this. You did something 10 years ago you shouldn't have did? So did Brett Kavanaugh. He did something 10 years ago he shouldn't have done. But what did they do?

The white boys got behind him and pushed him through. But he left a girl traumatized. To this day, she is traumatized. And she got on television and showed you her trauma. And because, you know, when you lie, you get dry mouth. He's sitting up there lying, drinking a ton of water, a gallon of water. No, yeah. If you did something 10 years ago we if i did something 10

years ago i shouldn't have done i'm paying for it whether i want to or not man i'm paying for it what about thomas jefferson it says we're on the bottom sally hemmings you know who sally hemmings was yeah i know who she was who she was s Yeah, I know who she was. Who was Sally Hemmings? Sally Hemmings was his slave that was also his lover, and they had children together. And you know who else she was? No. She was a half-sister to his

wife. Half-sister to his wife. I didn't know that. So the father, who is Martha Jefferson's father, screwed a slave girl. The product is now, she's now related to Martha Jefferson. So Martha Jefferson, on her deathbed, she says to Thomas, I want you to never marry. Don't marry again.

And he's looking over there at Sally Hemings and says, okay, baby, I'm never going to marry again. And then he hooks up with his wife's half-sister, Sally Hemings, and has babies galore. You know? So, yeah, I mean, I'm not saying he didn't do good things. He did great things i mean he wrote he wrote one of the definitive things but let's be real about this you know if some

if you work with someone sometimes i'm watching television and uh i say jeez my wife said gee that guy is a great actor i say yeah but he's an he's an asshole. Okay? Well, that's a true. That's a truism. You can be a great actor, but you can also be an asshole, or you can be a great guy. And all people are doing now is calling you on your shit. Anyway, Dan was asking about

all shows in context, but the statue thing is quite interesting now. Would you limit it to the Confeder take, but would you leave Thomas, would you limit it to the Confederacy or would you take down Thomas Jefferson as well, George Washington? Well, you know, what's wrong with a museum?

Why do we have museums? You know, put them in a museum. You know, put Robert E. Lee in a museum, although Robert E. Lee was a traitor. You know, put them in a museum. a museum, although Robert E. Lee was a traitor. You know, put him in a museum. And see, this is the other thing. The Southerners have, they called it Yankee aggression. It had nothing, the war had nothing to do with slavery.

It was Yankee aggression, you know. So they rewrote the history books on that one so that now, you know, the younger Southerners that come along, they'll tell you in a heartbeat that it had nothing to do with slavery. You know? And then you had all of these. The real myth is how did they get young Southern boys, white boys, who didn't own any slaves to fight? They knew what it was about. You know, it's like a young Republican with no money. How did they get those guys every time to vote Republican?

You know? The other side of that is, how did they get the young white boys in the North to go to their deaths to free the slaves well that that's altruistic that's a different deal we don't but we we seldom that's that they were they were fighting for a cause in which they freed someone not where they kept someone in bondage right so so that's that's what that is one thing that i that i that bothers me about the way we discuss this. Because, for instance, I've said before, the Nazis, if the German people had themselves risen up and defeated the Nazis on their own, I think that we would view the Germans in an admiring way in a certain sense. They're like, yeah, they had this evil in them and they rose up and they extinguished

this evil. And I think that that's a fair way to view the Civil War as well, if that's what happened. I'm no expert on it. But if the North, if it was a war to end slavery and people sent their sons to go die to end slavery, especially in those days, in those days when even the most far-looking person was kind of racist probably also, then that is- Well, they had riots in New York because some guys didn't want to go. Right.

But that's a story. In Vietnam, we had that too. But that's a story of, that's a great American story in a sense. And we we do have a right to be proud of that side of it. And we don't we don't actually talk about that. We still view another way. And they should know. I agree with you that they should. There are heroes in us. And the only way you find that out is if you find books, you know, like Joseph Plum.

I forget the guy's last name. He was in the American Revolution. But, you know, there are great northern stories, but you've got to propagate those. Whereas the Confederates did a concerted effort to point the, to rewrite what they felt was a misrepresentation of their history. I mean, you look at it now, you talk about the Nazis rising up. We got people in cages on the border. And, and, and Joel Osteen and TJ Jakes, none of those guys, religious guys, have said, hey, I don't think that's a good idea.

You got people in cages because all they want to do is immigrate here like my granddaddy did, you know? Let's get those people out of the cages. And the girls in the cages are turning up pregnant which means the guards are having their way with them and they pass some kind of ruling where the guards cannot be persecuted for anything that goes on in those camps so you know you know we talk about what happened with the nazis and how could the people lean toward Nazis? How could all those Germans lean towards Nazism?

I look at those cages and I say, how can we put Latino boys, girls, mothers, fathers in cages and it be all right? And not one religious leader stand up and go against that that's inhumane and it's fascinating to me that they don't stand up and say something joel austin how can he even walk out to a pulpit and take your money and not put it in to relief for those kids yeah you know the weird man You're supposed to be a man of God. Unless you're not really. Unless he's a man of money. Yeah, unless he's a man.

He's worshiping another symbol and it ain't a cross. Yeah, that's right. Come on. Dan, what about Gavin McLeod? I know you had some. Yeah, well, we got off on some interesting topics that I hadn't anticipated, but interesting nonetheless. I just wanted to address your point about Northerners going to war for altruistic reasons.

I think in any war, people go to war for their own reasons. And no two soldiers... You know, I was in Iraq doing shows for the troops about 10 years ago and i i asked many of them why are you here and a couple of them said because they believed in the cause that that were there supposedly were there for they believed in in bringing democracy to iraq others said they needed the money others said they thought it was something cool and interesting to do. And so I think in the case of the Civil War, every soldier had their own reason,

whether it's because they wanted to prove that they were brave, they thought they looked good in a uniform and impressed the ladies. They had, maybe they believed in the cause. Maybe they just thought they'd be considered cowards if they didn't go. And they'd be considered heroes if they did go. So I don't think we can say what each person goes to war for. And, of course, we know that many people in the North were probably as racist as a slave owner would be in the South, and they just went to war for whatever reason that you'd have to ask them. Well, yeah. Well, the whole thing about having an army, I mean, I remember some of the people in my family who had gone to prison or gone to jail, if they went into the army,

they could clean their slate. Did you know this back in in the 60s, the Vietnam War, if you wanted to clean your slate, if you were living in the South and you were black and you didn't have shoes on your feet, you'd go into the army. You know, you got three good meals a day. You learn how to shoot a rifle. So there's a lot. I'm not questioning that. I'm talking about the politics of what then each country or each society says.

Well, here's what we're doing. But I agree with you. There's a thousand and one reasons why you go into the service to fight. I'm from Oakland, California, and they tried to get me to join to go over and fight in Vietnam, and I wasn't going to go. And you know what I mean? There were a lot of dissenters at that time that we were saying, hey, you remember Muhammad Ali talking about this, you know?

Right. Yeah. Well, he never called me the N word. That's what Muhammad Ali said. So I'm not going over there to kill them. You know, and Spike Lee's got a new movie out about some black vets going back to Vietnam. And that's the real irony of this thing is you, you then, you know, like we fought spend your money and get Kobe beef. And now you can go to Vietnam and it's a tourist attraction. People died in those, you know. And that's within my lifetime.

You know, that thing changed really fast. So, yeah, who makes the money on the wars, you know? Who makes the money? I had a, I had a vet tell me that, uh, Lady Bird Johnson had a cement company and she was shipping cement to Vietnam so they could build, um, air, air, airplane strips, air, you know, for planes to land. And so Johnson made money off of the war. His wife made money off of the war.

And there's always been, you know, some kind of a scheme or an angle on war. I remember when Ronald Reagan wanted to finance Iran-Contra. You remember that? The Iran-Contra. You remember that? The Iran-Contra scandal? And they snuck cocaine, Ali North snuck cocaine into Los Angeles and put it in the ghetto. That's how you got crack cocaine. Because they took that money

and financed the Iran-Contra. You remember that? I did a movie called Wattstacks, and it was just before the cocaine epidemic, and everything was looking rosy. And me and the director, a guy named Mel Stewart, he and I, we did a couple of screenings of the movie. It was like the 25th anniversary,

and people were asking us about being in, asking me about being in Watch Stacks. At that point, Richard Pryor couldn't talk anymore because of his disease. He was in the movie also. I was in the movie Watch Stacks and I had a kind of a showy part. And so we talked about it.

And one of the things Mel Stewart said that I didn't realize he said this was the the feeling among people in Watts was before crack cocaine hit the neighborhood you know and there was a lot of optimism uh about where we were going and then uh Iran Contra hitting and that was the end of that you know people were afraid to come out of their houses because they the kids were running around with guns and shooting everybody and selling dope what else you guys want to talk about that's funny i double-click i mean um muhammad ali so you know he was very fond of the impersonation

that Billy Crystal did of him yeah and Billy Crystal did it with makeup from time to time so I'm wondering where you're

what your stand is there on this whole I wasn't crazy about it let me show you something though you guys watching can you watch

can you see this yeah yeah oh there he is. Is that a picture? Yeah, that's Muhammad Ali. That's Muhammad Ali. He's drawing on a napkin. Yeah.

That's what he drew. Oh, wow. That's wonderful. I had dinner with him. I had dinner with Muhammad Ali. A friend of mine wrote the movie Ali. Remember the movie about Ali? The one that he starred in or the one that Will Smith was in?

The Will Smith one. And he wrote that movie. And so I was in D.C. and I'm with Fred Grandy. And Fred Grandy, who playedopher. We'll get a little love boat stuff in here. Anyway, so I'm in D.C. and I call up my friend. His name is Greg Howard. He also wrote

Remember the Titans and he also wrote Harriet about Harriet Tubman. So I call him. I say, hey, Greg, how you doing? He says, hey, man, you want to come have dinner with me? I said, oh, I want to come have dinner with me I said oh I'm supposed to have dinner with Fred Grandy he says well I'm having dinner with

Muhammad Ali you sure you don't want to have dinner with us and I said oh man sorry Fred I said no I gotta have dinner with Fred but I sure wish I could be there he said well wouldn't Fred like to meet Muhammad Ali?

And I went, yeah, he would. So I said, okay. So I said, he said, we'll be there. He gave me the name of the restaurant, told me what time to get there. I said, we'll be there. So I call up Fred and I say, hey, Fred, I got a restaurant for us to go to. He says, okay, all right, sure. You sure you don't want to go to it?

No, no, no, I got a better restaurant and I have a surprise guest for you. I'm not going to tell you who it is, but I got somebody I think you're going to want to meet at this restaurant. So he goes, okay, all right, sure. So we go to the restaurant. let's say the dinner was at eight o'clock so we get there at eight o'clock and about 10 after eight so it's me greg howard and uh fred the three of us and so he says well where's the guy? Who's the surprise guest? And he said, so I said, don't worry, he's coming. And Greg said, yeah, he'll be here.

And Fred said, oh, you guys are pulling my leg. No, no, we're not going to. I said, it's going to be someone you really want to meet. And so about 8.20, he says, oh, come on, man. Where is this guy? Who is this person? What's going on here? I said, don't worry.

He's coming. Right, Greg? He said, don't worry. He's coming. Well, about 8.30, Muhammad showed up. And he walked into the restaurant and everything stopped. It was the most amazing. Literally, it was that.

You know? And everyone, and he worked his way from the front door, shaking hands, saying hello to people, as he came around the restaurant, and he stopped at our table, and he sat down. And my friend, Fred Grandy, went, what? Muhammad Ali? And we had one of the great dinners of all time.

Me, Fred Grandy, Muhammad Ali. Glenn, you got 38 seconds left? I met Muhammad Ali one time very quickly. He was already sick at that point. But yet, he was pure charisma i guess never seen anything like this you know yes and and that story you tell about everything stopping uh the only time i ever saw something like that was when prince you know the prince the rock star uh walked into the our club years ago and everything stops and I don't know how to explain that. Just the presence of certain people in the room.

Yeah. It takes over everything. And that's not all celebrities. I mean, it's among, you know, there's so much. I can vouch for that. I walk in a restaurant. I look for it to stop. It doesn't stop.

Ali was like that. Oh, here's a story real quick. I had to do a pageant in Philadelphia, Black America pageant, okay? Miss Black America. And so there's a bunch of celebrities. All of us were walking out, and we had to walk through this thing like the basketball.

It was like on a basketball court. And we had to walk out towards this stage. And as we walked out, I saw all of the, there were women on the left and there were women on the right and they were screaming my name. They're going, Teddy, Teddy. And they're going, we love you, Teddy.

And I went, oh man, this love boat thing is pretty good. We love you, we love you, Teddy. And I went, oh, man, this love boat thing is pretty good. We love you. We want you. I want you, Teddy. Teddy, Teddy. And I went, oh, that's pretty good. And then I heard his voice behind me, because there was a girl in a gold lame dress who was gorgeous.

And she says, Teddy, I love you the most. And I heard a voice behind me say, thank you, Goldie. And I turned around and it was Teddy Pendergrass. Oh. You mean that wasn't for me? That was for this six foot two. We've all been there. And I'm five, seven and I'm going off.

And I'm, I mean, directly behind me, so I'm getting all the love. Now, that reminds me of the time Mari in high school, I won't mention last names, waved to me, and I waved back, and then I looked behind me, and it was somebody else. We've got to wrap it up soon. John, you wanted to say something? I just wanted to say something to Ted about Muhammad Ali. Listen, all of us entertainers work with a million stars.

You do movies, you do whatever. You're always running into everybody. The comedy seller, everybody and their brother walks in that's a celebrity. So you get immune to it. I was doing a show in about the year 2000. I was at the Paris Hotel in las vegas i'm opening for julio iglesias i'm going to do my sound check julio comes down with me in the elevator he walks by a couple of people oh julio iglesias he was really hot then and stuff and i said well that's

pretty typical and then i look and there's a crowd of people just in this beautiful circle six seven deep in between the elevator banks wow somebody's standing in the middle of that circle i can't figure out what's going on so i don't want to be late to my sound check but i'm trying to dig my face in and there's muhammad ali with the worst parkinson's his hands shaking like yeah yeah he's got an assistant next to him helping him out. And he's signing autographs for everybody in that lounge. But I'm telling you, I stood at that elevator and looked at him like this. I couldn't move. The man had the most charisma I've ever seen from a human being. Yes, absolutely.

I'm going to tell you something else. He did a thing to Fred Grandy where he would take his fingers and put it by your ear and make this sound. I don't know if you've ever seen him do that. If you catch some of the documentaries, you'll see him do it. That was his favorite thing. But what he did was he sat there. We were all sitting at the table. And he's shaking from the Parkinson's.

Right. But then he, when Fred turned just a certain way, he would throw his hand out, do this little thing with his finger, and then pull it back. Amazing he could still do it. No, he couldn't still do it. He understood the human anatomy to the point where it was like throwing a punch.

He knew when you, you know, just where your body was and how to, and I marveled at it. And Fred never caught him. And I had to tell Fred when we were driving away, he says, where was that sound coming from? Because we said, we were all away, he says, where was that sound coming from? Because we said, we were all laughing, and Muhammad said,

you know, don't tell him. And he did it all through dinner. But he was one of, he was our Superman. He was. Absolutely. As soon as black folks get a Superman, first thing they do is they try to cut him down or kill him.

You know? We gotta go. We have to go, Ted, but thank you so much for a very far more interesting than I anticipated discussion. Okay, I just want to say this. I would like your

fans to go to YouTube, type in my name, and then type in the names of my plays. Shakespeare over my shoulder or blues in my coffee. I need to get some hits. I promise them some fun, comedy, and your homework assigned for the next time I see you two guys is, oh, by the way, Ted, we saw your plays. I'll do it.

I'll do it. All right. Well, we saw your plays. I'll do it. I'll do it. All right. We will. You can email us at comedypodcast.com for any comments, questions, suggestions, what have you. John Joseph, great seeing you again, buddy. When are you back out to sea again, John? When are they starting up again? The boats?

Yeah, the boats. What year is this? 2020, I believe. Hey, John, I'm going to tell Jeff Wayne I saw you. Yeah, tell him I send my love. Okay, definitely. Around October 1st. Okay, guys,

my wife hasn't been able to yell or belittle anybody for an hour. I have to go. Ariel has to go to a show. Okay, everybody. Bye, everybody. John, where can we find your work for you? You can find me at the Comedy Cellar as soon as it opens. Okay. Otherwise, go to johnjosephcomic.com, and you can see my schedule that is now eliminated.

All righty. Thank you so much. You're wonderful. Thank you. Pleasure to meet you, Ted. All right. Thank you so much. You're wonderful. And we're so happy to have you. Pleasure to meet you, Ted. All right. My pleasure, John. Thank you, Ted.

See you next time. Thank you so much. All right. See you guys later. Thank you so much. Take care. Thank you. And you can follow us on Instagram at livefromthetable.