The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - The Cellar Responds to the Inaccurate New Yorker Article with Tyler Fischer

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

The Cellar Responds to the Inaccurate New Yorker Article with comedian Tyler Fischer.

Can I start? Yeah. Okay, good evening, everybody. We're here at, this is live from the table. We're here at the Comedy Cellar. My name is Noam Dorman. I'm the host of this show. We're on Sirius XM Radio.

For as long as they'll have us, to my right, we have Perry Lashenbrand, our producer and on-air personality. And, of course, we have with us today Mr. Tyler Fisher, one of the great up-and-coming comedians in New York City and in the United States of America. Thank you so much. So last week, we talked a little bit about this New Yorker article. You already got into it last week. A little bit. I went on a rant, but I noticed I was so mad

that I didn't finish my sentences. Why don't you guys stop me when I don't finish sentences? Oh my god, you were so... I was scared to say anything. When you get like that, it's like you can't even talk to you. And then, then you said that like you were interrupted. You were just enraged.

And as I said. I didn't say I was interrupted. I said that Dan said stupid stuff. Right. To undermine me. I didn't say he interrupted me. Continue. I've said before, I don't understand why you ever allow anybody to talk to you from the press. Because every single time you do, you are so angry afterwards.

And, I mean, that was how we met, actually. Right? The New Yorker wrote a piece that totally mischaracterized the table. All right. Well, listen. First of all. This tablecharacterized the table. First of all, they did a piece that's a whole other story, but I'm trying not to get angry and not finish my sentences.

You're not correct. I've had many stories in the press that I thought were quite fair. The one I wrote. You wrote a tablet. The pedophile ring one. They quite fair. The one I wrote. The one that you wrote a tablet. The pedophile ring one. They were fair about that. Balanced.

I would say that the Hollywood Reporter, in my experience, is one of the most fair and best edited outfits out there. The Hollywood Reporter? Yeah. That's a big one, huh? That's a big one.

They did very right by me. And I've had other articles that were perfectly fine. Okay, fair enough. I retract that statement then. And the truth is that, not in this case, which we'll get into, but often I feel caught between a rock and a hard place when the press asks me for a comment on something because if it's something that happens in the world of comedy um if they don't get a response from me

they'll likely go to like caroline hirsch or something right right and it's not smart for me to allow someone else to become the kind of spokesperson for comedy in New York. You know, that's a very, I mean, I'm sharing a very honest thing there. But so I feel like I have to comment on something sometimes I don't want to. I try to be very careful because they will come to me first and they'll stop coming to me if they keep getting no comment. Right. You're right.

You're right about that. That's a good point. So that's where this comes to. But now- Because everybody wants a spokesman, right? They want a spokesman of a whole genre or issue when there's not necessarily any spokesman. But that's what the media wants. I like being in the press when they represent what I've said or what I've done

accurately. And accurately doesn't mean necessarily they have to agree with me. So, for instance, when I went through this whole Louis C.K. thing, there were articles that were critical of me that I thought were quite fair because they didn't leave out key facts.

They didn't selectively quote things I was saying. It wasn't like that New York Times Daily podcast where they would edit out sentences and then pick up the paragraph. The failing New York Times. Fake news. No, fake news. But even that one turned out okay for me. But anyway, so – and this article is not really about me, and many people would think that I'm overreacting.

So let me start by explaining why it is that I'm so upset about these things and why I react so vociferously to them. Perrielle, you've heard of the analogy death by a thousand cuts yes I have what does that mean to you well it's not what it means to me I thought it was death by a thousand cunts really do you have to get me in trouble also

please I'm about to go into this podcast defending you the dating scene in New York let me sum that up for you that's going to be the title of my next memoir. Go ahead. It's that, so if you get one little cut,

it's not that big of a deal and another one and another one. Maybe you just have a few little cuts, but after a thousand cuts, you know, you could die. Is that what that means? I mean, that's a literal... It's an analogy.

Yeah, so it means that like if one time, a few times, you can let something go, but if it keeps happening over and over and over again... To me, what it means is sort of... To me, what it means is that there are certain scenarios in life where no one thing is the cause of why something dies or fails or goes wrong. Tell that to Cosby. Shut up for a second.

It's all about the cumulative effect of many small things, none of which taken individually would seem that bad. Sure. Cut. Your reputation can die from a thousand cuts. And the logic of that analogy implies that one has to react to the individual cut as basically nothing, as small cuts, you will find yourself unable to stop the cumulative effect of all of them together. But the problem is you can look like a crazy person reacting to the single cut because somebody watching, what's he getting so excited about?

It's only a mention in a thing, right, in an article. But the death by a thousand cuts is real. And we've had these cuts. Guy Branum writes this dumb story saying they were anti-gay. And I can go through various stories out of things with Louis, whatever it is. And I want to react to every one of those cuts because I don't want that cumulative effect. And by the way, they can also cascade. So there's something in a story about, like Guy Branum says,

the comedy seller is anti-gay or something. And then somebody comes to the anti-gay and anti-women, or whatever he said. And then somebody comes to the show. Are you going to do a Guy Branum imitation? No, I don't know one. And someone comes to the show, and they don't see any women on the show. Or they don't see any gay people on the show. Are you going to do a guy brand new imitation? No, I don't know one. And someone comes to the show and they don't see any women on the show or they don't see any gay people on the show

for whatever reason. And they're like, yeah, I read that article. I guess it's true. Out of five people on stage. But the point is that these things can also cause a petri dish for cognitive bias. Right.

And also, it bugs me. Oh, I bet it does. I can't imagine. But I also think that it bugs you because you are a person who, above all else, you really value honesty and truth. All right. So, thank you, Perry. Tell it to my wife.

So, in any case, we're going to go through the article. We're going to let Tyler speak because he's implicated in this too. But let me just start by saying the URL, if you look up this story in The New Yorker, it's called A Club for the Cancelled. Yeah, I want to bring it up. A club. Now, we have a club. So it immediately kind of could imply the club. And the URL of the article says the club for the canceled, and the Google search return says it comes a club for the canceled.

The article is actually called The Party is Canceled, which indicates to me that perhaps at the very last minute, because of things I'm going to explain later, they changed that title. Maybe there's another explanation. I don't know, but it's weird. It says Club for the Cancelled, Club for the Cancelled, but the

headline of the story is, the party is cancelled. Alright, whatever. So, this is an article about these thought criminal gatherings that this woman, Pamela Peresky, has been doing for many years where she gathers together people of – I don't know. I don't even know. Writers and intellectuals and apparently people who have been accused of improprieties. I didn't even know that. To hang out and have dinner and apparently people who have been accused of improprieties, I didn't even know that,

to hang out and have dinner and talk about stuff. Now, my first introduction, I reviewed it, and I misspoke about some things last week. My first introduction to this was from somebody, I don't want to mention his name, says, this woman Pamela Preskey wants to contact you, blah, blah, blah. So she invited me to this party

and at that party there were to be, I saw they got two really interesting writers, both of whom who wrote for, were contributing writers to The New Yorker.

The New Yorker. Wow, I didn't know that. Yes. And I'll tell you guys off the mic with it. The New Yorker. And I'm interested in that. Now, maybe this is a good time to stop and, well, I'll do it later. So I went to this one event. It was at Lulu's Cafe somewhere. And the guy, one guy from the New Yorker, Juanita and I sat with him. He now writes for the New York Times. It was super interesting. I mean, just super interesting. I was so happy to meet this guy, you know. And there were other people there who I didn't know.

And I don't know their stories or whatever it was. But that's why I went there. And then somehow, and I became friendly with Pamela. And then somehow later, a few weeks later or something, they were supposed to do another event, and I wasn't going to go, but at the last minute I got a call that the event, the venue for some reason was no longer available. The venue had canceled, whatever it is. Do you still have that spot in front of the olive tree?

I'm like, sure, I have that spot. You guys can come to the olive tree. The outdoor dining spot. The outdoor, the shed. So I asked Liz, our manager, to set it up for them. And of course, because it's my nature, and it is my nature, anybody who knows me, it's my nature, I picked up for them. And of course, because it's my nature and it is my nature. Anybody knows me as my nature. I picked up the check because, um, I just don't like taking money from people that I'm somehow socially involved with unless they're comedians. So I was going to ask people to get

dinner after this. No, it's just my nature. It wasn't anything. It is your nature. Yeah. And so I picked up the check. And then I'll kind of take a little tributary here. And then they kept coming, and I kept having to pick up the check. But I didn't even care about that.

And just to know, so I would ask Liz, Liz said, should we pick up the check? And I'd say, well, do they tip well? And Liz says, yeah, they tip very, very well. Almost as much as the whole check would be. I said, okay, good. Then pick up the check. Because the waitresses in the altary don't make, waiters and waitresses in the altary sometimes don't make a lot of money. And if they can make hundreds of dollars for this one thing,

then in a certain way, it costs me some money. But it's just a nice way for them to get a good hunk of money rather than if I charge them and it's a lot of work and then all of a sudden the tip comes way down because they've all been paying, then it's kind of the opposite. Then the waiters and waitresses are working hard. Maybe they don't get much tip. It's for the boss's dumb friends or whatever they see them as, you know. A little canceled club. Yeah, yeah. So

that's kind of the thinking that goes into it. But the truth is, no matter what, I probably would have picked up the check because anybody who knows me, I always do. So that's the way it is. So I get a call or a text from Pamela. You know, these people want to do a story on her thought criminal events. Maybe I should find that. And so, now, I don't like to do press. I don't like to do press. But she presented it as a friend of hers or an acquaintance of hers would know. Like it was giving me some sort of favorable thing

about her little thing. And so, for instance, we've had the most famous writers in the world on this podcast, and we all know that after we turn off the microphones, they'll start speaking much more openly. And so that's what I thought. That's how I would have described what this thought criminals thing was.

I went to two, and that was how it felt. I felt like, oh, man, we're all just like, you know, we're all just, you know, speaking freely and all types of people, lawyers, doctors, a lot of them weren't canceled, you know. A lot of them had very conflicting views on stuff. Well, I want you to tell me later about the thing about people being canceled. So anyway, so I agreed to speak to the press. So the woman called me up, and I didn't record it like I normally would have. And I told her that I can't give the names of people who go to the events,

but she said, why do you host it? I said, well, this is a long tradition in my family. My father used to host debates at the cellar, at the back table. That kind of atmosphere led to Colin Quinn's show, Tough Crowd. I went to law school. I love this kind of stuff. Even before that, at my dinner table, we would always talk about stuff. My father used to always, like, Dino Badala, who's the famous guy on CNN now, a Palestinian guy. My father would give him spots simply so he could talk about Palestine with him. Spots at the club? Yeah.

Oh, to do stand-up? Yeah. Really? Yeah. So this was, you know, and I'm pretty sure I made it very, very clear to her because it's – that I don't care what anybody's political point of view is, couldn't care less. As a matter of fact, I really do enjoy talking to people of all different points of view. And maybe I should stop now and say that we've had events at this – at our place done by Mother Jones Magazine. I'm friendly with David Korn. I'm friendly with people at Slate. I'm friendly with David Korn.

I'm friendly with people at Slate. I'm friendly with people at The Atlantic. I'm friendly with people at The New York Times, CNN, Wall Street Journal. If I were to list the names of the people who I'm connected with politically that I want my emailing with or speaking with or whatever it is,

they're all very mainstream people. So every month, more than 200 people from the media, academia, and other intellectual circles are invited to a private hangout in New York City, which is known as the Gathering of Thought Criminals. There are two rules. The first rule is that you have to be willing to break bread with people who have been socially ostracized or, as the attendees would say, canceled. Now, maybe, did you know that? I think so.

Whether they've lost a job, lost friends, or simply feel persecuted for holding unpopular opinions, some people on the guest list are notorious elite professors who have deviated from campus consensus, who have broken university rules, and journalists who have made a name for themselves amid public backlash. So does that sound right to you? Okay. Other are relative nobodies who, for some reason. So what notorious elite professors do you think they're referring to? Elite professors? Well, you know, could be Jordan Peterson, but I haven't seen him there. They hired me to just do his voice while I'm there. So, for instance, I know that – it's hard to talk about. There's a Yale professor who had written about immigration or had gotten in some trouble. I don't know, but I don't think she even came.

Anyway, I'm skipping around. On average, the group probably leans right, at least when compared with the rest of the city. Okay, this is a quote by – no, this is the writer. But a few socialists go along with a contingent of libertarians such as Nick Gillespie who come ready for debate. So now it's interesting to me that you are aware of the canceled aspect of it because – well, you know what it is. It depends what you mean by canceled. That's exactly what I was going to ask you. There are people who got in hot water, as it were, for something that they tweeted,

some editorial position that they believe. That, I guess, I was aware of, like this Yale professor that I'm talking about. But I was not aware of, and you seem to have been, or maybe I'm not reading it right, that there were people who were accused of horrible personal behavior. You aware of that?

Oh, that I didn't know. No. That you didn't know? No. But you didn't know there was breaking bread and people were accused of doing horrible things? No. Not at all?

No. No email ever mentioned it? No, no. And that's not the vibe. I mean, the people I talked to there were, you know, people that currently were professors at Yale or lawyers or, you know actually I'd say I met more people that had hadn't gone through that you know I think there's a good mix of both and I didn't see I wouldn't say it was a politically right-leaning group either from the

people I talked to right you wouldn't say it was rightly no I think I mean again it's easy to just say oh you have you you have contrary views to certain current woke to say woke things. It's easy to say you must be on the right. But, you know, it seemed really balanced. So it starts. I skip around. She talked about some of the event, the people who attended the event. One of Pamela's friends in 2012, when she was a junior at Harvard, wrote an editorial dismissing race-based affirmative action programs. So she goes into some detail here about Siskin.

Siskin is now 31. We're on the second paragraph here. She's got a dream job. She's a stand-up comic. You know, that's a very loose term, stand-up comic. Anybody who calls themselves a stand-up comic is a stand-up comic. I don't know that she's a working stand-up comic. And then for another paragraph, Siskin, one of the worst parts about her notoriety. Now, what notoriety? I'm bringing it up because in the article they start focusing not on what this meeting is about and not on why people feel they need to have this meeting, which to me would be the interesting thing.

Why are all these people getting together? Why do they feel they need to have a semi-private way to meet just to have a conversation as opposed to kind of exposing the checkered past of these people which is okay as a detail to the whole story but it crowds out any substantive discussion

of what it is about the current atmosphere that draws people to events like this that would draw people from, and let's go, I mean, the New Yorker, the New York Times, important people. Yeah, Yale professors. Have gone to these events or are on her guest list and associated with these events. Okay.

Most often, the group meets at the Olive Tree Cafe, the restaurant above the Comedy Cellar in Greenwich Village. The Olive Tree is a the restaurant above the Comedy Cellar in Greenwich Village. The Olive Tree is a bit of a scene for dissidents in the city. Now. Now, do they meet? They don't meet there the most often. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't.

Oh. Now, this is where it gets in. So the fact checkers called me about this at first. And somewhere in that, they wrote, and he read this part to me, Dwarven hosts these people because he's fed up with the

progressive liberal orthodoxy. And I said, wait a second. I never, the guy read it to me. I never said that. And he says, oh no, that wasn't a quote of yours. That's just something that the reporter wrote.

I said, well, that's just not true. That has nothing to do with the reason that I host these things. I told the woman the reason I hosted these things. I hosted these things because I like debate going on at my event. These are New York Times writers, New Yorker writers, some well-known people, and I'm nice about it. And I don't even go to the events, but I like that kind of stuff happening at my event. I couldn't have anything less to do with progressive liberal orthodoxy because I would have hosted it.

It was from the nation. And anybody who knows me knows that that's true. It's like in a certain way, it's even the opposite because I'm most excited as Peril knows to get my claws into someone who I really... Someone of a particular ilk

who I really disagree with. I don't like meeting with people who are nasty. And some people can be nasty. But like if there's a person that I respect as a, as a per, like, you know, Christopher Hitchens used to quote a Wodehouse, uh, a feast of reason and a flow of salt. There's certain people who like to get together and have it out,

have a feast of reason and a flow of salt, have a few drinks become like sparring partners. And I like that way more than hanging out with someone who says, yeah, you agree with me? I agree. I agree with that too. Sure. That's not fun for me.

Yeah. So it has nothing to do. No. So she just put it right in my mouth. And later on, I'll skip ahead, it said that the reason, well, maybe I should just go to that now. And the reason, and Tyler Fisher, Dwarven latched onto him. I'm pretty sure that's the phrase.

It latched onto him because of a Dylan Mulvaney. No, that couldn't be less true. I know. So now you'll see later in the article, it says they did change it to, I agreed to audition you as a courtesy to Pamela. But that was only because I screamed at the fact checker. So there was something else the fact checker said to me

and I said, listen, I want to stop this right now. He said, are you recording this? He said, no, sir, I'm not. I said, I wish you were recording this because I'm not recording it because I want this memorialized because this is not okay. I said, I want to speak to an editor. Can you put down the phone and go get an editor for me to speak to?

Because this has nothing to do with what I've said, and it's not true. And the fact checker says to me, I know how you feel. I'm a customer of yours. I know how you feel. I'm a customer of yours. And my son, Manny, was in the car. And he's only almost 10, but he understood, and he has a very good memory.

And he was able to remind me of certain things that were said. And they said, well, I'll have the editor or the writer, either one or the other or both. I forget exactly which one, but the point was I was going to get a call back. I think in the end he said the editor wouldn't be the right person and that the writer would call me back.

So I agreed to stop the conversation then and wait for the writer to call me back, making it very clear that my position was this story is false. I do not want to sign on to anything in terms of agreeing to it as fact checkers want you to agree to stuff because I object to this whole story outright. I never got a call back from the writer. Wow. But there were certain things that were changed.

But what's interesting, and this is a subtle point, there are other things in this article now which you might read and say, well, maybe she didn't mean it that way, or maybe that's not the kind of impression they were trying to create. But you have to understand, in the original context where Dwarven was fed up with the progressive orthodoxy,

Dwarven latched on to Tyler Fisher. There's no question what the story— He makes him wear a wig on stage. You get what I'm saying? There's no question what those other sentences mean. Those other sentences filled in. They were the concrete between these bricks, which no longer exist. It's very difficult now just to look at that concrete and say, well, I don't know how big the bricks were. I don't know what this was holding together.

So I'm telling you, this is what it was holding together. So it says, the olive tree is a bit of a scene for dissidents in the city, even beyond Peresky's group. Now, who are the dissidents? The people that I host in my circle, like I've said, are people from the New York Times, the Atlantic, Slate, the Wall Street Journal. I'm trying to think of people that you mostly see. CNN. Like, who do you see me?

Last week, somebody very important from NPR was down there. A very important person. Do they whisper like this? No. I don't even know who it is. So,

the only person I could think that maybe they would say is a dissident is my friend Coleman Hughes. I don't know would say is a dissident is my friend Coleman Hughes. I don't know. Is he a dissident? Because, I mean, I don't know. Is that a dissident?

No. He just did a TED Talk, for Christ's sake. No. Is that a dissident? Almost the most measured, just like even-keeled, logical thinker. Well, I don't think he's a dissident, but I'm trying to view it through the mindset of somebody who looks at the world that way, that a black guy who somehow is for colorblind policies is – I mean, in some sense, maybe that is a dissident by some definition of the word. But it's really a stretch. But a scene for dissidents?

A scene for dissidents? No. No. No. So, of course, as you know, of course, I was peppering David Remnick with emails and peppering the writer with emails. Can you please give me the name of a dissident? No. You know what I forgot to do? The fact checker called me three times the morning the article came out.

And I didn't call him back. I was negotiating something. So I need to call him. Fuck. Yeah. Do you leave his number? Yeah, I have his number. Should I call him right now?

No, we're going to call him together. Okay. And he's a big fan of the club, by the way. Yeah, must be the same guy. Yeah. He had an accent, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, I'm a big fan of the club, by the way. Yeah, must be the same guy. Yeah. He had an accent, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He said, I'm a customer of yours. Yeah, he loves it. So I hope I don't get him in trouble, but. I think he probably, he called me three times in a row, so he must have, he must have wanted to call to clear up and say, hey, they didn't clear up the things that you, that you changed. Oh, he called you three times after you, the initial conversation you had with him. And after the article came out. Okay.

So we're going to get to you. And I don't mean to hog all this, but we're going to get to you in a second. So, scene for this is, Noam Dorm, the owner of the Comedy Cellar, in the restaurant, picks up the tabs for the gatherings. Now it says, he likes that his venues can be used for lively debate. But this is what the fact checker put in. It didn't use to say that. And then it says,

the cellar is now seen for dissidence, fed up with the progressive orthodoxy. This is the original construction. And then it says, doesn't say lively debate. The cellar is known for a place where controversial entertainers, plural, can perform. In 2017, Louis C.K. apologized for abusing his power as a high-profile comic in order

to masturbate in front of female comedians and was subsequently dropped by Netflix, HBO, FX, and his management agency. But less than a year later, he was on stage at the Cellar again. He is now back touring nationally and internationally. So now, look, Louis is controversial. We let him perform here, as does, what, every other club in the country? I don't know. I've seen him at a bunch of clubs.

Yeah, and at Madison Square Garden. Tiny venue, yeah. And he won a Grammy. But that we are a place known where controversial entertainers can perform. Well, actually, you know what? Behind the scenes, Perry O knows this. There are people I don't book. You know this because, you know, for whatever reasons, I haven't booked them.

I don't like – I prefer not to book controversial entertainers. I'm not looking for controversy. But yeah, there's one controversial entertainer who performs here. But they say entertainers, plural. And that's not being petty. Sure. Because otherwise I could have written Cellar is a Place Known where Louis C.K. performed.

But just this long exposition on the ugly details of the Louis C.K. We the ugly details of Louis C.K. We remember. We remember. We know. Like, this is obvious. Progressive orthodoxy picks up the tab. Louis C.K.

And in case you don't know, for masturbating in front. So this is where it was. And then it goes on. Diners crowd into maroon leather booths drinking beer and eating wings under dim hanging lights listening to Queen and Creedence Clearwater Revival. They checked with me that it was true that it was

Queen and Creedence Clearwater Revival. That is the station we listened to. Only a dozen people had showed up, fewer than usual because the group had been told I would be there reporting. Correct. The people I saw were mostly white. Now this always intrigues me.

If I were an editor, I would say, well, that could mean that 51 out of 100 were white. 49 out of 100 being black in a country of 13% or even a city. That would be a hell of a big number of black people. So I would say, why don't you go back and put the actual number? What does mostly white mean? Now, I have no idea how many white or black people were there, but obviously this is all part, this is all a piece of it, kind of thing like thing like, let's, let's, let's,

innuendo, we're mostly white. Peresky says she doesn't really pay attention to the racial breakdown of the guest list. Now, that's not in quotes. So I would like, I bet you she said it. Even if it was an equitable group, it would be mostly white, you know? If there was, you know, everybody wants equity,

which means we want the exact percentage of the population at everything. So that would still be one point. Well, no, I would say differently. I went to a Billy Joel concert. It was mostly white. I went to a meeting of the writers room of the New Yorker magazine. It was mostly white. I mean, this is,

you know, you bring that up when you're trying to make a point that this is problematic. So if she wants to make the point that it was problematic, she should make it, you know? I know that I've seen black people,

there were black people... Just in general in your life? No, I think including my wife who was of color, not white. There was a good number of... There was one, two, three, four, five black people of color at the event I went to

out of maybe, I don't know, 15 people. It wasn't relevant. No, but I'm saying it wasn't like... This is what happens. Now everyone goes and they have to count and go, no, you know. It wasn't a white bread thing. I have been to, like, Democratic fundraisers at Gotham Comedy Club one time, which had 300 people there. And my wife was the only person of color there except for the people who were serving the drinks.

The only person of color there. This is an elite liberal gathering that I was invited to. The only person of color. So, you know, you can say these however you want. Anyway, but that's not inaccurate, I guess. It's just irrelevant, though. Completely irrelevant. So then it goes on.

So now we get to, where are you? Why did I write this down here? Oh, so then another, oh, this is where Tyler Fisher. Okay. I'll just read it. I'm picking up the middle. They all had different stories for how they had ended up on the guest list.

Ricky Schlott, a 22-year-old journalist who dropped out of New York University during the pandemic, had become friends with Paresky on the chat app Clubhouse. What happened to Clubhouse? Clubhouse? I think it failed.

It was big for a while. Big because of the pandemic. We were all just desperate. I did it. I laid on the couch, depressed, didn't listen to that crap. Schlott had been looking to have looking for a forum to have conversations beyond her campus where she felt like she had to hide where she had to hide books by thomas soul a prominent conservative economist under her mattress now this doesn't say that he's prominent conservative conservative black economist, which is like the first time I've ever seen

Thomas Sowell mentioned and not mentioned that his race was... They only use it when it favors their point. That's right. She doesn't mention that Thomas Sowell, he is the most famous, perhaps the most famous black intellectual alive today.

Yeah. Thomas Sowell. Right? Or maybe, I mean, I shouldn't say the other, some people would dispute that. perhaps the most famous black intellectual alive today. Yeah. Thomas Sowell, right? Or maybe, I mean, I shouldn't say the other, some people would dispute that. He's up there, that's for sure. He's definitely in the top 1% or top 0.1%. He's a giant, you know, Thomas Sowell, not just in matters of race,

but also in matters of economics. And she doesn't mention his race. All right. A prominent conservative economist under the cut. Originally, Peresky recruits a new thought criminal by DMing them on Twitter while they're facing backlash. That's how she met, dun, dun, dun, Tyler Fisher, an actor and comedian who has found modest social media fame by posting parody videos, including a crude series mocking Dylan Mulvaney, the social media star who make TikToks about her gender transition. Paresky put Fisher into, oh, we'll get to that. So now, what do you-

Well, first of all, I've been making content for 15 years, you know, so I've built my following up from stand-up, being in movies, being in TV. Yeah, but you did get turbocharged. That's the first time I ever heard you. Barely. Barely, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, my following was already up probably 700,000 across platforms.

It maybe went up 5,000. Oh, really? In the scheme of things. I have a viral hit every week or two. I didn't know that. And my following will go up 1,000 or 2,000. And that's been happening for years. Now, she says, including a crude series

mocking Dylan Mulvaney. You know what? I go back and forth on that construction. What do you think of that? Well, crude is her opinion. I mean, I do the same thing when I do Trump or Biden or Owen Wilson. I do the same thing with every impression I do.

But this is the new protected class of somebody in the LGBTQIA or somebody who is not white. It becomes crude in people like this's eyes, but I reject it. So let me tell you, when I saw that video of you imitating Dylan Mulvaney. This was him imitating Dylan Mulvaney's famous video where she talks about normalizing the bulge. Because she's trans,

she has a penis bulge. That didn't change much. No, you didn't touch it. She doesn't want to tuck it. That's a whole other video. She decided the best thing to do was to normalize it. She goes, normalize it. She sings it.

So I saw you do that. I'd never seen you before. Yeah, God forbid you poke fun at someone normalizing a female bulge. Yeah, but I'm going to be honest with you. I was not, I didn't laugh at that. I didn't like that video you did. It wasn't that funny. Yeah, and I didn't laugh at that. I didn't like that video you did. It wasn't that funny. And I didn't like it because,

and this is probably wrong of me, I wasn't comfortable mocking Dilla Mulvaney for some reason. Even in a privacy of my own home. That's what you're told to do. No. Ten years ago, there's no way. You wouldn't have thought twice about it. I'm trying to examine my feelings, where that comes from.

I don't know. And then I went back and watched it again. Don't get me wrong. I think it's fair game. I didn't think you did anything wrong. It's also like as a comedian nowadays, especially with you see how much content people, I improvised that. That was a throwaway.

That was a, I need to put a video up today. I mean, I've got probably 3,000 videos now. So that was like, I saw that clip, someone sent it to me, I filmed a selfie video, one take, put it up. It got millions of views. You know, I don't think it had to do with the trans so much. I think I just always don't really like send-ups of people that would hurt the feelings of the people being sent up. I've always kind of like shied away from that.

Yeah, but everybody's feelings. If you do a Trump, you know, Trump probably doesn't like people. Bill Maher wouldn't even watch Kyle Dunnigan doing him and he does him perfectly. But I don't think his feelings are hurt. I think it makes him uncomfortable. It's not the same thing. But anyway, again, I'm not... But you also you're presuming that just because it's a trans

person, their feelings would be hurt by an impression. Maybe. And that's the coddling crap that's not... So when I got advanced wind of the way Michelle Wolfe was going to be making fun of Sarah Huckabee Sanders at the dinner, I was like, ah, I wasn't crazy about that either. But did she do almost an inaccurate impression? She didn't do an impression. Because I didn't, again, I didn't change much. No, no.

Listen, it's fine what you did. But I didn't, so crude is an interesting word. But anyway, so that's, so the, and then in the original, it said that somehow that that's when I latched on to you. Right. No, and we fought about that the first time we met. We not fought, we debated about it. What did we debate?

I don't even remember that. About the video, about trans stuff. It was not, you didn't, you didn't agree with it. I didn't agree with it. So my point is that's completely incorrect. Even then, when I first met you, I told you I didn't agree with it. Yeah, part of me was like, I might not work this club because I did an impression of a trans person, which is kind of what anyone would think.

I'm so happy. I had no recollection of that. Oh, yeah, yeah. But I'm very happy you said it because it ought to make it clear to the listener that I'm being honest here. Yeah. That was my actual response, and I wasn't even afraid to tell you when I met you.

So I didn't latch on to you, and it's not because I'm hosting dissidents. No, no, not at all. And I had already kind of let go of performing here, so it was kind of good because it didn't matter. I didn't need to impress you and vice versa. No, we debated about it. That's fantastic.

Okay. But of course, so Peresky put Fisher in touch with Dwarman. Well, that's not true. She just we debated about it. That's fantastic. So, okay. So, but of course, so Peresky put Fisher in touch with Dwarven. Well, that's not true. She just brought you down here. Or did she put you in touch with me? She facilitated it

one way or another. Yeah, I sent a video to SD or you or something. Yeah, so, and we didn't like the video. So then you came down here. You came down here with Pamela, right?

That was the first time I met Pamela. So yeah, again. That was the first time you met her. That was the first time I met Pamela. So, yeah, again. That was the first time you met her. That was the first time I met her. And she brought you down to the Olive Tree. Was when we all sat at the Olive Tree. And I agreed to let SD audition you.

Yeah. I don't even think I went down to the audition. No, no, you didn't. And the reason I didn't go to the audition is because I didn't expect you to do well. Ha! No, this is true. You didn't even know I did stand-up when we met.

I remember we met, and you go, do you do any stand-up? And I was like, that's actually mostly what I do. This other stuff is just kind of. I think at some point somebody in the audience said, hey, Tyler, people came up, they were recognizing you. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I said, all right.

And I didn't go down because I expected you not to do well, because usually people who become famous for these kind of things do not do well as stand-up. Right, right. And then if I didn't see you, then I wouldn't have to say, oh, that was great. Oh, I don't blame you at all. It makes me sweat thinking about it.

So I didn't watch, but you did great. And he's like, oh my God, he's great. I said, son of a bitch. Chalk went up on Pamela Peresky. Fisher performed well. Yeah, I thanked her weekly for that.

Now this is where I get it. Fisher performed well, and now he does about 15 shows a week at the venue. Now, this in-between sets on the evening I was there, he swung by the thought criminal table upstairs. Fisher claims he had a hard time getting a talent manager because he's a white man. Now, again, put this in the context of it's affirmative action. Tom, what was the other thing about?

Oh, majority non. All white dissidents there. Mostly white people. Yeah, yeah. Didn't say white dissidents. Okay. Now, what is the actual story that you told the reporter about this white talent manager thing? See, I don't go down the identity politics route.

I wouldn't say, hey, it's hard for white men right now. I mean, I have a joke about it on stage. People know I'm joking. Yeah. And then I'll like, you know, pound a white guy and everyone laughs, whatever. I said, I've had many managers. I've had many of agents. I've been on TV.

I've done the Hollywood thing. Jim Carrey's manager brought me in. I signed with one of his junior managers. Nothing happened. I didn't chalk that up to the white thing, but I left them. I left Jim Carrey's management company because they just weren't getting me auditions. The one I cited was an agent who said, it's too tough out there for white dudes. I have that email.

He fired me. So that's evidence of that. The next one that brought me into Scout Me said, we want to work with you. We love you. They came watch me kill on stage. And then they said, look, we got bad news. We're not hiring white guys anymore. And then I recorded it because I was like, what the fuck? This is insane. And I have a lawsuit with them at the Supreme Court. So I was very clear. Do not say that.

When the fact checker wrote that to me, I was like, you better say I'm only citing a specific incident. And I'm not going to be the spokesman for all white people or white men. So, yeah. Now the phrase, he had a hard time getting a talent manager, it sounds like bellyaching, right? That's the way I took it. It's victimhood crap. It's terrible. Let's juxtapose here. There's other paragraphs here.

Multiple paragraphs going into people's, the details of things that happened to people in 2012 when they were at Harvard, whatever it is. And they can't go into any detail on that. Zero detail about the current situation that you're having that perhaps leads you to embrace the thought criminal ethic. Yeah, because I can't talk about it, even around comedians.

Like, oh, shut up. I have people every night going, just drop the lawsuit. What are you doing? It's a fascinating story. You're suing somebody. This is the kind of case which could actually go to the Supreme Court, right? Yeah. It's a real case.

Yeah. I presume somebody's taking it somewhat on spec because you don't have the money to. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Someone's doing it. So zero mention of it, zero exposition of it, if that's the right way to use that word. So he recently just basically, he's one of these white guys complaining. One of the mostly white people at this thing was bellyaching about being white. So he recently acted, that's my characterization of it.

Yeah, it's terrible. He recently acted in a movie called Terror on the Prairie, a Western about a pioneer family that gets attacked by outlaws, co-produced by the conservative media company The Daily Wire. That's interesting. Now, did you seek out The Daily Wire? No, they reached out to me. They saw my videos. I had a video going viral every couple days.

They DM'd me and just said, hey, this is a funny question. Do you want to audition for this new movie? Gina Carano's in it. I said, sure, send me the script. So you think that they did pick you out because of what they perceived your politics to be? No. No?

I would think so. I don't like the Daily Wower, especially on the way they talk about trans things and stuff like that. So it wouldn't surprise me if they saw something making fun of Dylan Mulvaney. No, it was my... No, no, no, no. That just happened when I met you.

I mean, again, I've had 10 years of viral videos. It was my Fauci impression that was going viral. I was doing Fauci during the pandemic, just going, you know, where ain't Matt, whatever. So that's what they saw. You know, really, I didn't say two weeks to flatten the curve, Noam. I said we're too weak to flatten the curve. It's not humanly possible.

Okay, and then they go on to mischaracterize Gina Carano's tweet, which was not about... Again, look at the detail on that tweet, and not mentioning my lawsuit. I don't want to get sidetracked at Gina Carano's tweet, but the notion that her tweet was anti-Semitic. Yeah, it wasn't. And I love Gina.

I'm very close with her. The article doesn't call it anti-Semitic, but the people who fired her claimed it was anti-Semitic. The writer here says it was like that Gina Carano was saying being Jewish in Nazi Germany was like being conservative in America today. That's not what she was saying being Jewish in Nazi Germany was like being conservative in America today. That's not what she was saying. Anyway, Fisher told me that the criticism he's received for his comedy has escalated his desire to tell edgy jokes. Wrong. I said take that out. It's not what I said. But what did you say?

I said after being called transphobic and racist and a straight, white, evil man, all things which aren't true, it opened me up to making jokes about more things. I didn't say they were controversial. I didn't say they were edgy. They recorded their interview with you, right? She recorded her interview with you? Yeah. So if you said that to the fact checker

and it went back to her and she decided to stay with it, I think that means that she thinks she had something on the recording which would back her up. I'm sure if she skewed it. I'm sure if she skewed it in some way. Think about it. No, because I'm always very clear to say I'm not doing edgy jokes. Everyone in the crowd is going to take a different joke. A pun could set off the crowd versus a priest pedophile joke you know

what i mean finish because there is a direct quote of you here okay to tell edgy jokes resulting in quote this cornered rat feeling where i end up saying things i would never have said i would have never said that's a direct quote from you this cornered rat feeling where i end up saying things i would but they didn't put any context where that quote was that quote came in earlier when i said, after being called transphobic and racist and homophobic, when I was raised by gay men. He was.

Tyler actually was raised by gay men. Go ahead. Yeah, and a mom, but I had to. Anyways. So I've been immersed in that. A gay man can't be a mom? Gay man. Go ahead.

Perry gets mad if I assume it. Go ahead. So I said that you feel like a cornered rat when people are accusing you of all these things. And then you're an anti-vaxxer. So I just said I ended up joking and commenting on things I never would have because of that. Which is a completely different thing than what's written. Right, right, right. Well, I don't know.

It is. I mean, it sounds like it. It sounds like it was part of a sentence that was taken out of context from describing something else. Well, give me an example of something that you said because of this corner rat feeling, which you would never otherwise say or something you did or context where that's that would even getting on stage and going it's tough out here for white guys with resting january six face things like that i wouldn't i would have never even said it's tough for some white guys or brought up my i've talked about my lawsuit on your stage before i would have never done that so it's like i was just

i was so i was reacting edgy so edgy. It's not like offensive. It's more like personal in some way. It's more like, okay, I just got fired for being white. Now I'm going to talk about that. So I'm saying it opened up all these new things I would have never talked about or experienced. Okay. Yeah. You can, the listener can just judge for themselves when they think about that.

His fans at the cellar, his fans at the cellars aren't scandalized by his provocative lines. Now, this implies that this cornered rat thing is all taking place at the cellar and that you're saying things which could be scandalous. They're starving, Fisher said, like several of the thought criminals I spoke with. Fisher is someone whose career seems to have thrived

from the aura of cancellation. Again, I stopped around that. I said, there's no evidence of that because also I had a very successful Hollywood career happening where I was being scouted by SNL. And so I said, you can't really say. I may have been way bigger if I kept my agents and kept auditioning. Is there an aura of cancellation about you?

No. No, I never claimed to be cancelled. I said if anything, I would describe it as pre-cancelled. I wasn't a celebrity. Where'd she get this from? That phrase, an aura of cancellation.

I mean, that sounds like that's her opinion. All right. Helping him define his brand among a certain audience. As one Reddit user put it, well, quoting a Reddit user. I've never even been on Reddit. As one Reddit user put it, people are dropping dead from these vaccines. As one Reddit user put it, people are dropping dead from these vaccines. As one Reddit user put it, there's aliens in my backyard.

As one Reddit user. Women are not menstruating anymore because of the Holocaust. Because the Holocaust never happened. It's pathetic. As one Reddit user put it? Two. Canceling this guy doesn't seem to be working. He's blowing up.

As one Reddit user put it. How do they, what, how do they, I mean, of all the things. I'm saying, though, how is the New Yorker using that as citing evidence? If I even said that to you on this podcast. Oh, I do make fun of you all the time. As one meme said. That would be funny. But there's no difference.

As the meme says, Kentucky Fried Chicken is not chicken. As one Reddit user said. You know why? It's because they have to spin it. So they have to pull from random shit. I want to make this point. I can't just come out and say it. So let me find a Reddit user who said it.

It's actually astonishing. By the way, nobody at the cellar. I have occasionally have fans that just happen to be there. Right? Fans from around the country. But they're not, it's not my fans there. These are strangers seeing me for the first time, which is significant. All right.

So I was going to say, and then later on, one other thing before we go over this stuff. It goes into great detail about a man named Stephen Elliott. He's an edge case, Peresky told me. He's the person who tests the limits of what kind of behavior even the most good-willed and open-minded people might be willing to tolerate. In the media circles, many people would be able to tell you why. Elliott, the founder of the influential literary—OK, I read that, but he's the edge case, end quote. Then the writer writes, Green writes, the person who tests the limits of what kind of behavior

even the most good-willed and open-minded people might be willing to tolerate. In media circles, many people would be able to tell you why. Elliot, the founder of the influential literary website, The Rumpus, was included on the shitty media men list that circulated among women in the industry in 2017. On the spreadsheet where they made anonymous accusations against men in the field, Elliott was accused of rape. He later sued the spreadsheet's creator,

Moira Donegan, for defamation. This kills me. He later sued the creator for defamation, prompting condemnation from his publisher, Gray Wolf Press, along with his friends and colleagues. Donegan agreed to settle this winter, and Elliott received a six-figure sum. One ex-girlfriend says. So there was an anonymous accusation of rape. To clear his name, he sued. Green

finds it significant that his publisher and his friends condemned him for suing. But, he got a six-figure settlement. It's like, I'm accused of rape.

I say, I didn't fucking rape them. I'm going to sue this person. And my friends say, no, you shouldn't sue. And then when the person I'm suing is forced to put up or shut up, they say, okay, I'm going to settle for six figures. And six figures can be $999,000.

Yeah. So you'd think the fact that they settled is somehow vindication that, I mean, when Donald Trump settles a lawsuit, they run with that as Donald Trump being afraid to stand by his guns, right? He's settled.

There was an accusation against Donald Trump of sexual assault. He's settled. Looks bad. And it does look bad. Sure. But it also going to avoid a five year lawsuit this man sued now we don't know the ins and outs maybe it was because the guy was anonymous I don't know what but

anyway this man sued and was given a six figure settlement and she casts it as still somewhat negative because his his publisher condemned him for it. I mean, this is thick as hell. And then it goes on to, now what's interesting is I did some research.

The New Yorker never mentioned the names from the shitty media list website in past articles. And there was one article in the New Yorker which called that list immoral. The idea of just being able to put a spreadsheet. People could write whatever they want on a spreadsheet, and then it goes out there. It's these accusations. The New Yorker, one writer in The New Yorker found that to be probably immoral. That's my recollection of what I should have brought the quote. Now, she's talking about this guy over and over and over, how he's accused. There's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven paragraphs, I think,

six or seven paragraphs about this guy. Just one line about you. Yeah. Six or seven paragraphs about this guy. And I have a lawsuit actually going possibly to the Supreme Court. I didn't settle. Yeah. So, now, I mean, that's – where's the other – he remembers the stream of allegations effectively ended Elliot's literary career.

He remembers the first time he showed up at a thought criminal gathering at the Olive Tree. When all your friends turn on you, you become suspicious of other people, he said. But with Pamela, it was like these are all people who have decided they're not going to join the mob. The group became a lifeline. He said, for about a year, I barely went outside. If Pamela had a thing, I might just fly to New York. Okay, well, that's actually interesting. That's actually, I'd say that's legitimate to write about.

Now, I just want to say that I didn't know anything about these cancelled people I'm not attracted to cancelled people any more than someone who believes that illegally obtained evidence is attracted to murderers I'm against cancellation because

I'm repulsed by everything that goes with that I'm repulsed by the mob of it I'm repulsed by everything that goes with that. I'm repulsed by the mob of it. I'm repulsed by the fact that what happens to these people is not proven, and yet the punishments are worse than what the law would give out. I'm turned off by the obvious bullying, the glee, the glee that people take in having kind of the certainly know people close to them who have done things that should be ashamed of, who they don't cancel.

And is that enough things to be turned off by cancellation? Getting there. The mob. I get no glee and would get no glee in sitting down with someone accused of rape. I mean, you know, but, you know, if Pamela. Also, everyone's not wearing this on their shirt. I think that's one thing to be clear about. No one's there going, what did you do?

Everyone's just going, we can hang out. We know we can say, you know, we can speak openly. It's not an identity. We don't have our own flag yet, which we should get a flag. That's not what it sounds like, though. It sounds like from the way that piece is written is that that is what it's like, is that everybody's like, oh, I did this. What did you do? Well, this is the colossally shallow. It's not.

I mean, it sounds like that's really not the case at all. I've spent two long evenings. I went to an apartment, beautiful apartment in the Upper West Side, for several hours. No, it's just people can just go in. I'm sure it comes up in little conversations. You might end up going, how did you meet Pamela? That seems to be it.

And we go, well, this thing happened. I met her through this. But it's not like a victimhood parade. This is what to me is so disappointingly shallow about the entire article because there is something to write about both what i referred to earlier about why is it that people that's exactly gather and then why is it that some people feel compelled to hang out with the canceled as as almost as a kind of principle that they're standing up for something. What is it that Pamela feels she's standing up for when she socializes with this guy, Elliot?

It's not she's not. I mean, I haven't spoken to her about it, but I guarantee you she's not standing up for people who are accused of rape. She's not soft on rape. She's not soft up for people who are accused of rape. She's not soft on rape. She's not soft on sexual assault. What she's standing up for is the idea that this is not the way we should be living and that just because somebody writes something about somebody on the internet doesn't mean we should all then ostracize that person.

And this reminds me a little bit of when people, you know, people criticize Kavanaugh. He's a gang rapist. And then Kavanaugh freaked out. He didn't freak out at first with Blasey Ford, but then when that Avenatti thing came up, was her name Swetnick? And that people did the train and all this kind of crazy accusations, the guy had a meltdown. Now, to me, the meltdown was understandable if not something I'm sure he

wished he could have controlled. But when you are a hair's breadth away from the reality that for the rest of your life, people are going to view you not just as the guy who got handsy when he was 17 in bed, drunk with the high school girl, which is bad enough in today's climate, but as the guy who gang raped.

Sure. And literally nobody for the rest of your life is going to want to socialize with you. That's a cancel. That to me, that, like the word cancel. So you go 180 from I've been an honorable judge in the system and I'm about to reach the high point of my career of being appointed to the Supreme Court of the United States. And in a whirlwind of 48, 90, 96 hours, whatever it is, you're about to be stamped as a gang rapist for the rest of your life.

And the fucking guy has a meltdown. So what did the smart people, the New Yorker type say? Well, I don't know about anything else, but he clearly doesn't have the disposition to be a Supreme Court justice. So even if he's telling the truth, it doesn't matter anymore because look how he handled that. Now, of course, we know that if this had been, let's say, a trans person or any sympathetic class person freaking out with their righteous indignation, it would be called righteous indignation. Look at it here. But because it's Kavanaugh,

so this is what this all reminds me of. Now, lucky for Kavanaugh, the guy who accused him or the guy who was pulling the strings on the accusation, Avenatti is where, Perrielle? In jail. In jail. In jail.

So, and this is as good a lesson as any for people to be able to understand why it is that people like Pamela are right to withhold judgment about these accusations. Because we saw before our own eyes, published in major publications, that this guy was accused of being a gang rapist. But he wasn't. And that wasn't even a guilty. And that wasn't even an anonymous accusation. That was on record through a lawyer. So when you see that, you say, so you know what?

You expect me to ostracize this man? Sure. Because somebody filled out a spreadsheet anonymously online? That makes you somehow soft on sexual assault? No, it doesn't. It means that you haven't drank the Kool-Aid, you haven't been body snatched,

you still believe in certain principles which, cue the music, which made the country great. And I can't be more... I'm proud to be an American. But it's true. This is what made the country great. And we're heading the other direction.

Now, why is it that I don't want to mention any of the names or the people that I'm quite proud to know and communicate with and sit with in the altry or whatever it is, vacation with? I don't want any harm to come to them. I feel like, and I'm not being paranoid. I'm sure they don't. If any of them are listening to this, please don't say my name. I'm sure they are. And I don't blame them. Because in some way, I am now smeared by this.

A little bit of that slime. It doesn't take a lot of feces to stink, does it? A little bit. that slime. It doesn't take a lot of feces to stink, does it? A little bit. Any mom knows that. A little feces on you. Holy shit. What, you're shitting your pants? A little feces is on me now. A little bit, the slightest bit.

Right? Death by a thousand feces, as I said. Fecal matter. Anyway, and that's the proper analogy. And so just to wrap it up, and I'll let you say whatever you want to say, I was writing emails to Remnick, who, by the way, we have mutual friends.

He's been here. The man has been here. He knows firsthand that we're not running some kind of dissident out, you know, seeing it down here. And I asked, and we asked the writer, can Emma Green, that's her name, come on the show to discuss the article

with us? Nope, she's not coming on the show. The writer, I've written her, will you tell me who the dissidents are? No. Can I have access to my, I didn't record it, can I have access to my own interview, a transcript or recording of my own interview, so I can play it for them? No, you can't have that. But it's my,

we don't do that. Remnick says that's not our, that's not our, one of them says, not our policy. Remnick said we won't do that. Yeah. They won't give me the recording. They have nothing to hide, mind you. They're very proud of their story, but they don't want to risk the interview that I gave going public. Sure. I said, the fact checkers said, help me, would call me back. They won't, they won't dispute that. I said that the fat, none of the New Yorker, English Google is they pride themselves on their fact checking. And yet I told them, this is not true. The story is not true. Not just in detail. In the essence of everything they're describing, it's not true. And I want to speak to somebody.

He won't even engage me on that. I mean, from top to bottom. You could just imagine. And now my theory is that maybe he's afraid of his own staff, his own writers. Well, you'd have to be at a place like that. They have you hostage. Right? Now tell us

if you didn't already tell us, what exactly was your conversation with the fact checker? Did you tell us everything already? First he said, I don't know if he saw me, but he said, my friends just saw you at the Connery Cellar. They loved you. I hope to come and see you there.

So I knew he was a fan of mine. I knew he was rooting for me. And then he wanted to clear this stuff up. It was very disorganized. It seemed almost like his papers were falling apart as he was reading them. I don't know if that's by design. Oh, sorry, I'm not sure. No, I don't think so.

No. So I cleared't think so. I cleared up my points. I said, you have to mention the lawsuit if you're going to bring this up. Do not just say I'm a straight white guy complaining I'm not working because, by the way, I am working a ton because I've created my own career. Imagine you're a black guy

and you've been told, don't apply here because you're black. And you have a lawsuit. You're suing for discrimination. And they describe you to a New Yorker as, he says he has a hard time getting a job because he's black. Yeah, no. Could you imagine? Well, that's our whole point in this lawsuit.

My lawyer's keeping it very simple. But just stop for a second. Think about that for a second. I wish I'd thought of that earlier before people might have turned this off. My lawyer's keeping it very simple. But just stop for a second. Think about that for a second. I wish I'd thought of that earlier before people might have turned this off. Like, that is such the perfect illustration. Nobody would ever. You didn't mention, you described him as having a hard time.

You didn't mention he has a lawsuit with somebody on tape saying we're not going to hire you because you're black. Massive story. Or it would be. It's not a massive story. I went on Dr. Phil to talk about it. He was one of the only people to have me on. But no, you're exactly right. And that's my whole point is like, why would I put up with that? Why would I put up with a different standard?

Why would I treat myself differently? So that I was really mad about because that's the last thing I want because I get attacked so much. Oh, you're just playing a victim. No, I'm just standing up for myself. I didn't give up. It'd be one thing if I gave up. I was like, screw the comedy seller, screw.

I didn't give up. I kept working. Did you sleep with Pamela Peresky to get this job? Continuously. Yeah, so that really pissed me off. I really made, I said, you have to include this. Do not mention this, you know. And so they obviously chose to leave that out, obviously.

What else? What else did you tell them to leave out? No, I didn't tell them to include it. What else did I tell them to include? What else did I tell him to include? What else did he mention? Yeah, I said, don't say that I just say controversial jokes for the hell of it. You know, I made that. Those were my two clear points, and they didn't clear up any of them. Listen, we get emails about controversial comedians.

I've never gotten an email about you. Not once. I mean, complaining about you. I stand outside the, I, I stand outside the door after every show, every single show. I have my QR code for my Instagram. So I'd literally talk to every single person that walks out or I see their face. So that's also a great way to get feedback on how you did.

It's just stand right there when everyone walks out. Yeah. No, I mean, I do all sorts of stuff. I do silly stuff, impressions, subway jokes.

It's not, you know, it's easy to just go, Oh, he just talks about this one thing. I don't. No, I mean, I do all sorts of stuff. I do silly stuff, impressions, subway jokes. It's not you know, it's easy to just go, oh, he just talks about this one thing I don't. And and it's really hard to even do a joke about that involves a trans person because, you know, someone's going to say it's transphobic or whatever. So so those are the things I do the least, to be honest. Yeah. And, and yeah, I mean, I just, of course it's fair game to make fun of Dylan Mulvaney. I mean, that's the whole point of comedy. You should be able to make fun of whoever you want. Um, I don't have to like it. Um, 20 years ago,

that would have been an SNL sketch. Absolutely. You know what I mean? So that's why I was like, I'm just trying to keep the same standard that I grew up with, which was when I thought, you know, places like SNL were, were much more fun to watch.

Yeah. All right. I think we've covered it. I tried to cover it pretty politely. You were very polite. We got to record it. You got to bring your own recorder. That's what I took from this is I have to record everything.

I know that. I know that lesson. I don't know why I didn't record it. I mean, I do know why I didn't record it. I don that. I know that lesson. I don't know why I didn't record. I mean, I do know why I didn't record. I don't know why I was so stupid. Did you have a higher sense of trust on this one? Yeah, I thought because of the provenance of this contact that this was not like, this is nothing I had

to worry about. And it's not going to, you know, not going to do you any harm, I don't think. Well, it's disappointing, but the thing is, you do never know, because sometimes things come down to a building department inspector,

a community board member. You find yourself where one particular person has some powerful sway over the trajectory of your future in a way. These things do happen. And you don't need

them having a false impression of you. It's bad enough if they have a proper impression of me. That's what you're really trying to avoid. No. But you're most certainly right. It's one of a thousand cuts.

That's my only point. Exactly, and the people that come here are probably not people reading The New Yorker. They're people that want to see comedy. They really are. As one Reddit user said. That really is. As one guy overdosing on the subway said. How can you be a journalist and look yourself in the mirror and have written the line,

as one Reddit user put it? Unless you're trying to make a point. People on the internet are saying, I hate that. That's what Trump said. Why do we put up with that? That's exactly what Trump said. Lots of people are saying. That's exactly what she's saying.

Lots of people are saying. Now, it's she's saying. Lots of people are saying. Now, it's okay to quote Reddit user when you're trying to make a point of how ridiculous people on Reddit are or whatever it is. Sure. Or what kind of grumbling. To use that as a credible source.

You say, like, there's a lot of vaccine denial out there. As an example on Reddit, somebody said blah, blah, blah. I get that. Sure. But she's actually trying to make, to solidify an actual point about you as if it's true. Well, now what you can say-

The point is not about the Reddit user. The point is about you. Right. But now what you can say is that the New Yorker said that you're blowing up. She's right. That could be my credit on stage. There you go. Coming up next, one Reddit user has seen his... No, she's just saying

he's blowing up in New Yorker magazine. Right, right, right. Oh, I will do that. Yeah, you really should. He's blowing up in New Yorker magazine. It's a good idea. Periel? Yeah. That is the most genius, smartest thing I have ever heard you say. It is a

first-class, grade-A, solid gold idea. I'll make the... I, grade-A, solid gold idea. I'll make the, yeah, I'll Photoshop that. I'll make that. I'll put the New Yorker thing and just quote, he's blowing up. You could put that on T-shirts. Yeah. For your merch.

No, I think one Reddit user said is a funnier thing to put on merch. You should put it on the back. Yeah. It was actually one Reddit. Really small. All right. Are we done? Yeah. Mostly was actually one really small. Alright, are we done? Yeah. Mostly just because I'm starving. Great. I think we cleared it up.

Keep your recorder with you. I mean, look, I wouldn't have had this whole lawsuit if I didn't have to record the damn conversation. More important lesson than keep your recorder with you is to always assume you're being recorded. Say that one more time. I'm telling you, always assume you're being recorded say that one more time i'm telling you always assume you're being i know i know yeah yeah i just the thing that bothers me

is i feel like this wasn't written with integrity like and that that's the part that rubs me really the wrong way that it came with sort of this perspective and agenda and it sort of made these things sort of fit into whatever narrative they presupposed and you expect and i said and i said this in the beginning maybe i'm being really naive um but you really expect that especially from the fucking new yorker or what about maybe yeah you're exactly right or going into like why are these meetings happening maybe can we take a step back and go do we want these mostly white dissidents hanging out privately maybe not a good idea you know from our point of view maybe this is now we have people meeting in these private groups and rather than

having a public conversation. They didn't go into that at all. It makes it sounds like you walk into the olive tree and it's like Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein sitting there. That is what it makes it sound like. And it's just like it's ridiculous. It is ridiculous. It's patently false. Yeah.

And as anybody who hangs out there regularly, as I do, you know that that's not true. Sure. Yeah, it's it's psychotic. Anyway. OK, I think we cleared it up, though. Info at Comedy Cellar. No podcast at Comedy Cellar dot com for podcast at Comedy Cellar dot com. And if you have any if you're out there and you want to come on our podcast, if you've written anything interesting, any essays or studies, please send them to me. Or if you have any memes you've written, you're proud of,

please send them to Perry L. Any Reddit users that have commented one or more times. All right. Goodbye, everybody. Bye. Bye.