The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - The History of Greenwich Village

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

The founder of Epic Walking Tours provides walking tours in Greenwich Village, New York, to educate, entertain, and inspire the public. We are regaled with stories of some of the most remarkable heroes and innovators who lived, worked, and advocated there.

This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of the world-famous comedy cellar, coming at you on SiriusXM 99 Raw Comedy, formerly Raw Dog. We are also coming at you wherever you get your podcasts, and available as well on YouTube if you want to see our beautiful faces, some more beautiful than others, perhaps. But in any case, here we are in our newly remodeled podcast studio. Not really remodeled. Not remodeled, it's just cleaned remodeled. Not remodeled.

It's just cleaned up. No, but they cleaned it up a bit. We have a little more room to stretch out. I'm Dan Natterman. I'm here with Noam Dorman, fast-rising star of Twitter, or X, I guess as they call it now. He's up to 5,000 followers with very little effort. I think Noam could, if he really put his mind to it, could become a force on Twitter. A force we reckon with, Dan.

I think so. Perrielle is here. She is, of course, our producer. We have a guest coming in about a half an hour, but we have some time to talk amongst ourselves about whatever shit we want to talk about. But Perrielle, you wanted to bring up Princess Jasmine. I did want to bring up Princess jasmine who is princess jasmine she is a dachshund that i am uh i'm i'm like a dog yeah dog oh okay

yeah i'm dog sitting i've been dog sitting for the uh uh uh uh gilbert's wife's dog uh right yeah yeah um right gilbert's wife's dog uh gil Gilbert Godfrey's wife's dog. Yeah. Um, so yeah. So, uh, she was also Gilbert's dog. I don't know. Did they buy her? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Gilbert loved that dog. Sweet dog. So he was having a meltdown. I mean, he was having so much anxiety about this dog. Go ahead. Oh, you, I thought you were going to say. No, you can. Uh, well, yeah.

For the last week, I was worried. Like, I thought you were going to say that. No, you can. Well, yeah, for the last week, I was worried. Like, I have no experience with dogs. I don't know what kind of lunatic leaves a dog with a guy that doesn't know anything about dogs. But be that as it may, I got the gig. And so last week, like, I was here. And then you said, well, we're going to have dinner after from Il Molino. And I'm like, shit, but the dog hasn't taken a number two all day. And what if it takes a shit in the house so i run back and i walk and it still doesn't take a number two and then i was like well i guess he's not gonna do it or she and so i ran

here and and had the dinner but and then when you got back and when i got back i took him out again and i her her and she didn't yeah the whole day was nothing the next day, she got back on track with the number twos. So anyway. Il Molino was very good, right? He was excellent. Well, Il Molino was great. But I was also worried because I had a couple of gigs that weekend. I didn't know, Garrett told me I could leave the dog alone for eight hours,

but that seemed like a long time. And I'm like, should I? I don't know. She would know better than me. But at the same time, you know. And then he went to therapy. And I said, well, what did you talk about in therapy? And he said, mostly the dog.

Are we getting Abigail Schreier? Because I really want Abigail Schreier. Okay. Did you read your email? No. Okay. What did you say? All right.

Anyway, Abigail Schreier wrote the book Bad Therapy. Oh, okay. Oh, this book has changed my life. Then I would say, you know, pull out all the stops to get her on, even if you have to bribe her with an El Molino. All right, so, yeah, I got you her publicist name. Did you read your email?

All right, listen. Did you read your fucking email? Because I reached out to her publicist, and I spoke to her publicist, and I sent you what the publicist said to me. What did the publicist say? You really want to do this on air? Is it bad for us?

I think that there are other avenues that we can reach Abigail through. Not her. Abigail! Abigail Schreier, if you are listening to this, listen, I don't think that one of your Yenta friends know her. She's an Orthodox Jew. Abigail. Abigail Schreier, if you are listening to this, listen, I don't think that one of your Yenta friends know her. She's an Orthodox Jewess.

If you want it bad enough, you know, then go for it. You know, if you read your emails, the difference between us is I read the emails that you send me. Are we going to get back to the dog? I also have other topics. The dog story's not over. I have something I want to talk about. Go ahead and finish your dog story.

Well, I have other topics as well. The story is now I'm more used to the dog. I kind of like the dog. It's a sweet dog, and everything's going well with the dog. Have you synchronized your poops? I got a couple of jokes out of it. Okay. But those jokes are from my old act.

I hear distortion on the mic. I hope that's not in the actual recording. Anyway, go ahead. I came up with a joke. Not a great joke. joke it's not a fucking mr morales level joke but it's a decent joke about you know worried what if something happens to the dog and how am i going to break the news to lizzie i i use a fake name and so what am i gonna say like oh you know the good news is you only owe me for three days of dog sitting so so uh anyway no wait but i thought that you weren't telling one-liners anymore i thought that you that that last week you told us you have a new Dan,

your new extended material. Yeah, but if something just pops into my head for the old act, I still need my old act for when I'm doing 45 minutes in a venue. I don't have 45 new minutes. Yeah, but now you can talk about what it was like to be asked and what it's like sitting in the room with the dog. You're making eye contact. He loves the dog, though.

The dog sleeps in bed with him, like snuggled up. Well, you know, the dog jumps in bed with me. I'm not going to throw the dog out, but I find it rather satisfying, yeah. But I did want to talk about my new act, unless you have something you feel is more important. Just to review, I think every comedian should change their act every 30

years just i mean i i lay a challenge to chris rock to now start doing stephen wright material type material you know like my school colors were clear but um no i i think every like you know like i think that's a good challenge for forians in general. After 20, 30 years, change it up. What broke, so I, my act for our listeners, if you don't know it, is somewhat observational, but also stories about shit that never happened. Attell has the same kind of an act. He tells stories about things that, some of it's observational, but a lot of it is stories that never happened.

No baby with a beard was chasing him. No, he didn't. He didn't do the knife game with a half Indian. So I've decided to now pivot to talking, being a little bit more real, talking about issues and well, as well as Dan Natterman in a more real way. I think what broke me is when Louis CK went on a podcast and said, my, one of my favorite new jokes is Dan Adler is Mr.

Morales joke about, about sex education. And, and nobody gave a shit, you know, and then no one posted it as well on the comedy seller, Instagram feed. And it didn't go viral.

What was the joke again? Well, you know, the joke was my, my, my sex ed teacher in ninth grade got fired. He was inappropriate. He came to class. He said, class, I'm going to demonstrate how to put a condom on. That's why I have this banana with me,

because I can't get hard on an empty stomach. And the joke, and then there's a couple of tags that go after that. And I said to myself, well, if that joke's not getting any traction or going viral or semi-viral or even micro-viral, then I'm not gonna write anything better than that. Then it's just, it's just the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.

These jokes are fine for, you know, gigs that I have or coming to the comedy so but if i really want to go viral if i really want to make a name for myself it may never happen but if i if i if i want to at least go for it i have to change my act i have to i have to do something else because otherwise it's just beating my head against the wall that joke promoted by louis ck subsequently promoted by the comedy seller. Some guy, by the way, did that joke. Some guy stole it, a foreign language.

What's that? Did he steal it in a foreign language? No. I don't think so, but... Yes. Who stole it in a foreign language? And you responded to it, actually, in German. Oh, you're right.

Somebody did, but there was somebody else that did that joke. See, now, if that happened to me, what just happened to you, I'd say I'm losing my mind. Somebody else did. How could I forget? My best joke was translated into German. It's such a rememberable thing.

It's amazing. Alzheimer generally hits the short-term memory first. So as I said, giraffe, pen, saxophone. So anyway, that's a reference to our previous episode. giraffe, pen, saxophone. So anyway, that's a reference to our previous episode. Yeah, another guy did it like he was accepting an award for like podcasting. And our friend Kruger Dunn said, that's Dan Adlerman's joke.

But that joke didn't get anywhere. Then I have to face facts. Nothing I write is going to get anything. I mean, I could write a fucking hundred of those jokes at that level and nobody would give a shit. So I at least have to try something new. I like this. Would you concur, Noam, in that?

I've been telling you this for years. Well, it finally broke me. We did a whole podcast about this like five years ago. I said, Dan, why don't you do long form? The people who are making it are doing long form stuff. Well, first of all, it's not so easy to change your act. And the evidence that it's not so easy is nobody's doing it. Nobody is changing their act.

Right. But you had a reason. You had a reason not to do it. But I think everybody has a reason. Why not reinvent yourself? No, I'm saying look at him. You know. No, I think it's good.

I'm saying at the time, whatever. You were correct. It's just, A, it's not so easy to do. You get comfortable. And C, I still thought if I just write that one perfect joke and I post it at the right time and, you know, it gets the right repost, but the Louis thing really broke me because it's like if anything was going to happen,

and then, you know, nothing. I told you, for things to go viral, people need to be able to use it for the most part to illustrate something about life, something universal that this accord that's touched by, you know, whatever it is a person is saying. Something about kids or women or whatever it is a person is saying, something about kids or women or whatever it is, or just something. From time to time, a joke will just... Yeah, look, if you're already famous, then it might go well. Anyway, so that's where things are at.

I did the New Joke Night on Monday. Every Monday, we have a New Joke Night here at the Comedy Cellar, where the audience is told, we're going to tell new jokes, and so it's a little less pressure. So I did that for the first time in like a year and i got a couple that seemed to work um but i will say by the way about the new joke night it was full and i still felt pressure it's i still didn't feel completely at ease doing new jokes because even though you tell the people hey this

is new joke night they still want a good show. They still want to laugh, and so you have to kind of like, I mean, part of it, they probably are fascinated by the process, and so even if they're not laughing, they might still find it fascinating. But I don't know, what do you think, Noam? I mean, you come to new joke night, to what extent will the audience, even though they know it's new joke night, Well, you don't tell all new jokes, right?

I didn't have all new jokes, but theoretically, if I had all new jokes, what do you think the audience wants on New Joke Night? You know, I mean, even though it's called New Joke Night... No, they still want to have a good time. Everybody always wants to have a good time. They'll be a little more tolerant.

Yeah, but they expect... You know. I still didn't feel completely. It's not new shitty joke night. Right. Right. Except you don't know if it's shitty. I know that.

You know, and the audience, as I said, they still probably are fascinated even if a joke doesn't work because they're seeing behind the curtain. And I think to some extent that's interesting. Yeah, I think so, too. Beyond mere, you know, laugh value. But so I wasn't, and I'm uptight. I'm obviously nervous anyway. So I wasn't completely at ease,

but I'm more at ease than I would be trying new jokes at the VU on a Friday night. So anyway. I would just like to point out that Noam is suffering through this episode i'm not suffering through it i'm just i'm trying to think of some stuff i'm thinking something on my mind anyway so we had a really upsetting thing here i don't know if i'm allowed to talk about it oh for the love of god don't do that um are you anything else i have other things. A parakeet story? I have other things.

I have other things. Well. No, let him go and then you go. Go ahead. What's your thing? No. So we had a terrible thing that an employee

was beaten up on the subway the other night. He fell asleep going home from work and some guys descended upon him and he has stitches here on his face and stitches here on his face. I'm sure he's psychologically traumatized. And this hasn't,

came to work today, this hasn't happened, this used to happen years ago, you hear these stories. In the 70s, it's like a joke about, like Woody Allen said, why don't you do Shakespeare in the park?

And Tony Robbins said, I did Shakespeare in the park. I got mugged. And that joke wouldn't resonate today because people don't even use the term mugged anymore. Where was he going? I'm just curious. He's going to have, I don't know.

No, no, no. Was he going to Brooklyn? Was he going to Queens? Was he going to the city? I don just curious. He's going to have, I don't know. No, no, no. Was he going to Brooklyn? Was he going to Queens? Was he going in the city? I don't know. But I think it was in Brooklyn or somewhere. Brooklyn or somewhere. So he came in and I see his face

and it filled me with such rage. And a lot of things came flooding into my mind. First of all, when the thing first, in no particular order, when October 7th happened and people were hacked to death and all these terrible things, gleefully, right? Some Israelis lost their composure and bandied about horrible words to describe.

They're animals, or this and that, you know? So the first thing I noted was that the words that came to my mind about the people who did this to him were horrible words, like animals. Like what kind of fucking animals would do this to somebody? It doesn't seem horrible. It seems too nice. I mean, Jasmine's an animal. And, you know, the disconnect between how you're feeling when you say something like that and then how someone, you know, in the calm confines of the, you know, bucolic, you know, kitchen is sipping coffee and hear somebody say, call somebody. Oh, how must you speak that way? And then you have to be called to account to be

judged for that kind of outburst is just very unfair. And I understand why it's you know, it feels ugly to hear that kind of thing. Uh, but,

um, the fact is that when you're, when you see somebody victimized like that, what, what words are okay? Oh, it's a very naughty person that would do such a thing. Like,

well, I mean, I think regarding 10, seven, they, they, they said they felt that the word animal was being applied to the entire Palestinian people. But that's the thing.

That's what will always be said when you use that phrase. That's the thing. That's what always... Nobody actually objects to the fact that you called the murderer an animal, but they'll always try to say, what are you saying this about? And I have to be honest, on my kids' life, I don't know the profile of the person that did this. I have no idea.

I didn't ask. All we know is he wasn't Asian. No, no. I don't make jokes. How do you know that? They're never Asian. So I would say it was not Hasidic. So anyway.

Did they catch? Was it one person or more than one person? More than one person. Two people. So that's where the second thing that came to my mind is that what the fuck is going through everybody's mind with these policies? We have a DA in New York that ran for office and said that, hi,

that incarceration was the number one or something like the number one public safety, mass incarceration was the number one public safety issue in New York and said about literally creating new ground rules that they would not seek to incarcerate people for assaults, for all sorts of things that people need to be incarcerated for. And then on top of that, of course, we have the inevitable reaction from the post-George Floyd thing and the cops being demoralized. And you can say what you want about the cops, but they are demoralized. And then, you know, just a whole collection of policies and atmospheric beliefs that almost predictably lead to this.

And what are we going to do about it? The policies that we had for 20 years, warts and all, with Mayor Giuliani, I don't mean, as I said, not Dr. Jekyll, but Mr. Hyde, you know, Giuliani when he was considered palatable. Mr. Hyde was the good guy? I don't know. Mr. Hyde was the bad guy. But you know what I mean. Mr. Hyde was the bad guy. Okay, so Dr. Jekyll, not Mr. Hyde, you know, Giuliani when he was considered palatable. Mr. Hyde was the good guy? I don't know. Mr. Hyde was the bad guy. But you know what I mean. Mr. Hyde was the bad guy.

Okay, so Dr. Jekyll. Mr. Hyde. You think Jekyll would be the bad guy because the name Jekyll sounds terrible. And because heckle and jekyll. I guess. So, I lost my train of thought now. So, and Mayor Bloomberg. Heckle and jekyll.

These policies, which did seem harsh at the time, and some of them I at the time thought were too harsh, but in the overall created this renaissance in New York City. They're not compatible with the current Democratic Party. They're just not. And New York is a one party town, such a one party town that even when these policies, even when these policies lead to the governor of New York feeling that she has to call out the National Guard to deal with crime, there's no risk that New York will say, maybe we

should vote for the other party right it's like it's like it's like off it's off limits but that's not the way it works democracy won't work that way and um does it have to get worse before it gets better I remember years ago we had talking about crime and when crime was low we had some guests on the show who tried to sell us on the fact that actually the crime wave went down not because of any policies. It was because there had been lead paint in the city. Remember that?

It was lead paint in the city when we were all kids and lead paint caused crime. And as they got rid of lead, and if you track the demographics, as people- Were those the Freakonomics guys? I think even Jonathan Haidt gave some credence to this thing.

And I was always like, I'm just not buying it. So what's going on now? Lead paint came back? Well, this particular incident is just one incident. Right, but I mean, I don't ride the subways,

but obviously it's not... If they're calling out the National Guard, I'm presuming there's incidents, right? Yes. Crime has risen significantly. Let me say one more thing. And they did, this is, I should have said this earlier.

They didn't even rob him. This is what's so true. Because for years when you want to criticize crime, well, you have to understand poverty. You have to understand injustice. And all these things should be understood, poverty, injustice. But the idea of excusing somebody for putting stitches in somebody's face because of poverty or because of injustice,

we shouldn't, I'm not going to buy that. I'm just not going to buy that. If they robbed him for hundreds of dollars, I would say, all right, you know, maybe they got kids, like it's possible, at least it's plausible, they got kids at home, he had no, I don't believe that really, but at least you could say that's a story which,

if it's true, you could say, all right, you know, it's not okay, but they were desperate. They took some money. This had nothing to do with money. They saw a guy on the subway

and they hacked up his face. Okay, so that's hard. And they didn't even check his pockets to see if he had money. That's hard. They didn't take his phone. Nothing. It's horrific. That's really horrible. Now't take his phone. Nothing. It's horrific.

That's really horrible. Now, what about your fucking tour? Wait a second. Wait a second. I have questions, and you're like, who cares about the questions? First of all, I have a question for Max. Max. Oh, Max.

Well, no, because we told him it's 6 o'clock. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, so of the topics discussed so far, Prisoner's Jasmine, Dan's journey into another aspect of comedy, and Noam's soliloquy on crime in New York, what did you find the most riveting? I liked your dog story. You liked the dog story, okay. He's not the final word, I'll give you that, but he give you that. But, but, but he's an important guy. I have questions and you're like, what does it matter where he's going? These are the first.

Maybe you didn't interrupt my fucking story. I would have been, I didn't interrupt your dumb dog story. Go ahead. These are the first questions that a police officer would ask. Where was he going? What time was it? Are you investigating the crime? If you were investigating the crime, I would have taken you more seriously. I didn't realize you were investigating the crime. it? Are you investigating the crime? If you were investigating the crime,

I would have taken you more seriously. I didn't realize you were investigating the crime. Yes, I'm investigating the crime. I want to know what happened. It's a horrific story. And even if you are robbing somebody, which is also fucked up, you don't need to be violent, right?

Like if they really... Well, if they resist. I'm not... Yes, of course, you're right. If there was a person on board the subway with a firearm, would he have been within his rights to shoot and kill the assailants? Yes. Yeah, that just happened.

If you had a legal firearm. That's what happened to Bernie Getz. Well, he also shot, supposedly. Well, they were walking away, I think. But in other words, I was always team Bernie Getz. What is the standard? I think the standard is if another person's life is in danger or in great bodily harm.

Look, this is the way I see it. There's a standard, and the standard makes sense. You have a right to use deadly force until right up to the moment that your life is no longer threatened. In which case, the life of a second person is no longer threatened. No, until your life is no longer threatened, then you can no

longer use deadly force to protect yourself because... But you can also use deadly force to protect somebody else. Or protect somebody else. But the point is... Yes. And that makes perfect sense.

But in real life, when people come upon you and your face is cut, and this is that, and you have the adrenaline, and you've never experienced anything like this in your life you may not be able to stop right at the moment where a a sober and calm jury is going to decide you were no longer threatened you may get carried away in a moment and shoot somebody in the fucking back and i have always felt that that risk has to be on the person who crossed that line and put you in danger of your life.

Now, if you could prove that somebody really wasn't threatened and just opportunistically murdered somebody, of course, that's murder. But was Bernie's life reasonably, did he reasonably perceive his life as being in danger? It's impossible to know as far as I'm concerned he gets if people coming upon him and threatening his life and he he I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt I'm not putting Bernie gets in jail because he got carried away when he was thought he's gonna be killed I mean I don't remember that's not the story precisely maybe our tour guide because he's a sort of a New York historian of sorts, remembers Bernie. I don't know if you do. Introduce him. This is Andrew Kirshner,

ed.capitalD. Isn't that what Bill Cosby has? Right? It's like a doctor of education. I haven't followed Bill Cosby's academic career. But you are Dr. Kirshner, technically. You can call me Andrew.

But he has a doctorate in education and he's a licensed New York City sightseeing tour guide and he's a president CEO and chairman of the board of epic walking tours providing walking tours in Greenwich Village New York to educate entertain and inspire the public we welcome Andrew Kirshner to our show. I appreciate the invitation. It's an honor to be with all of you. I don't want to intimidate the three of you, but in the seventh grade, I won the award for best sense of humor. That doesn't intimidate me. We didn't have that award in seventh grade. We did have class clown in the yearbook, which I lost to Matt Shostak, who is now a math teacher.

There's nothing funny about that. But so do you recall the Bernie gets incident? I do. And what exactly happened to Bernie? Was he – I seem to remember they came up to him and said, hey, you got a dollar or something like that. They had sharpened screwdrivers. Right. But that wasn't – they weren't exposed, I don't think, when they approached Bernie.

They might have been. I don't know. I believe it was 1984. But they weren't exposed, I don't think, when they approached Bernie. They might have been. I don't know. I believe it was 1984. I believe he was robbed on the subway by a few assailants, and they were fleeing, and he shot them in the back. And so the big debate was over whether or not he had that right. And so it was a very divisive argument well noam comes down squarely on the side of i mean i don't remember the fast i remember at

the time thinking and you know shot four young in 1984 impressive shot for bernard getz shot four young black men on a new york city subway train in manhattan after they tried to rob him all four teenagers survived though one was paralyzed and suffered brain damage. As a result of his injuries, he fled to Vermont, Goetz did, before surrendering to police nine days after the shooting. He was charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless endangerment, and several firearms offenses.

He was convicted of a gun charge, right? A jury subsequently found Goetz guilty of one count of carrying an unlicensed firearm and acquitted him of the remaining charges. For the firearm offense, he served eight months of a one-year sentence. Now think about... Wait, in 96, KB obtained

a $43 million civil judgment against Getz. Now think about, from a criminal point of view, think about the injustice of that. The jury decided that he didn't commit a crime by shooting them, which meant that the jury thinks that he was within his rights to feel that he was so threatened that he needed to shoot them, at least beyond a reasonable doubt. But they want to put him in jail for having the gun without which, if you go with the logic, they would have overwhelmed him in some way, perhaps killed him.

The point is, there's a law, you can't have a gun, but you know what? If you as a city force people to feel that they're taking their lives in their hands unless they have a gun they're going to get guns that's the bottom line well if you're going to have gun laws they have to mean something you can't just say well we're going to ignore the gun charge because you know we felt that you were in your rights to shoot yeah you can't i mean There is a gun law on the books, and it has to be respected. Now, you might make the argument that we should just let everybody have guns,

but if we're going to have gun laws, I would think— Well, we have all kinds of laws we enforce at times. Listen, I get what you're saying, but gun laws should definitely be used to heap extra punishment on people who are committing crimes, aggressively committing crimes, and maybe if you just catch somebody on the street with a gun, I don't know.

Andrew, sorry. Do you have a firearm, Andrew Kirshner, in your line of work, touring the village, you know, potential danger, or people want to get a free tour, and they won't go away i have a concealed carry permit you know i was kind of just joking around but the guys carrying yeah well that's surprising i spent many years early in my career working in prisons and jails

and i think when you have an experience like that you become tragically acutely aware of the dangers that's around what you're doing we're gonna be else I was responsible for providing cognitive behavioral therapy and drug and substance abuse education to inmates Wow that's interesting are you carrying right now no okay so how'd you get into street tours? That's a good segue. Well, let me say, I... Well, I have a deep interest in the history of New York. Growing up in New York, I was born in Tarrytown and raised in Croton. I live in Ardsley.

Okay. And spent a lot of my childhood in the city and Central Park, and we talked about Canal Street and other parts of the city. You're from Towery Town. You must have an opinion on the Tabbin Zee Bridge becoming the Mario Cuomo. I have an opinion, but that's not on the tour. But I think, like the six degrees of Kevin Bacon, I can probably link a lot of what we're talking about to the tour, including Dr. Jekyll and mr hyde uh

john barrymore starred in the play uh dr jekyll and mr hyde he lived in the village he dated evelyn nesbit evelyn nesbit uh was married to harry thaw a couple hundred about to Harry Thaw about 100 or so, 120 years ago. And Stanford White, who built the Washington Square Park arch, allegedly raped Evelyn Nesbitt. And that is a love triangle that I mentioned to you on the tour. Harry Thaw wound up uh killing uh stanford white on the roof of the original madison square garden which is uh which was located on the northeast side of madison square park where the new york life insurance uh building is now uh apropos of nothing but that's the jekyll and hyde uh link uh evelyn is but dated john barrymore who acted in jekyll and hyde and uh it's an interesting uh part of uh it was the trial of the century the uh harry nesbit uh or rather uh harry thaw was found not guilty by reason of

insanity he was married to evelyn nesbitt, and she accused Stanford White, who was one of the most famous architects in the city at the time, of sexually assaulting her. Did I tell you the guy knows everything? Robert Louis Stevenson wrote Jekyll and Hyde? I think so. So I went on the tour, by the way, with my nephew, because, you know, I got five passes,

but I only got one person wanted to go. But anyway, so there's a lot going on right here in your own neighborhood, Noam, that you probably aren't aware of. Did you know that Barbra Streisand got her start? Yes, at the Bonsoir. Not exactly. Actually, Barbra Streisand, close. That's where the second place she performed. So a guy by the name of Barry Denon lived on Ninth Street, and he had just come from California, an actor, wealthy actor. said that they knew this 18-year-old woman who had been sweeping floors at the Cherry Lane Theater, which was, by the way, misnamed. It was supposed to be the Cheery Lane Theater, named after the dreary Lane Theater in England,

but there was a misprint in the newspaper. Wow. The Cherry Lane Theater, so Edna St. Vincent Millay, the founder of the Cherry Lane Theater, which just celebrated its 100th anniversary, kept the name Cherry Lane Theater. But Barbra Streisand was sweeping floors there, she was waiting tables, and a friend of Barry Denon's said, I've got this woman who acts and sings I want to introduce you to. She went to his apartment and he said, I tell you what, tomorrow night there is a singing, comedy, dance competition at the Lion, which was the bar next door to where Barry Denon's apartment was. Barry Denon's apartment downstairs was also the home of Trudy Heller's Go-Go Club. Trudy Heller, who had seen the

Peppermint Club uptown where Frank Sinatra and Marilyn Monroe and so many stars from that era used to hang out and opened up this Go-Go Club. So Barbara Streisand went there and performed Sleeping Bee, the song Sleeping Bee. She won the competition, she won $50. And the manager of The Lion suggested that she go and perform at Bon Soir, which is what she did where CBS wound up signing her to a... She wound up getting a record deal. The New York Times was there and wrote up

a nice review on her performance. And after that, I think the manager said, you know, you're gonna be a star. deal the new york times was there and um and wrote up a nice review on her performance and and um after that i think the manager said you know you're going to be a star and but here's this that's interesting to me because you know the idea that you're going to be a star because you have a good voice every monday night noam uh has a music night here at the olive tree cafe and people are singing with world-class, and none of them are stars. So how did Barbra Streisand become a star? So is that the same? There's a record, Barbra Streisand at the Bonsoir.

Yeah, that's it. Sony recorded her at the Bonsoir, and it's on Spotify, and I think you can get it on iTunes. And she's 18, and her voice is remarkable. Okay, so I've heard that record. Yeah, so that's her. It's remarkable. Yeah, it's stunning.

It is an unbelievable juggernaut of effusive talent that couldn't be denied. I mean, I could not believe what I was hearing. And if you're saying this is just like, she's 18 years old, it's crazy. That's how good she was. So you'd say that she orders a magnitude better than somebody who goes on The Voice

and does a great job. Yeah, the humor, the poise. Now, of course, plenty of people are told they're going to be a star and they don't become stars. It's not like, but I could totally see why people said that and obviously even even to to make the effort to make a pretty good quality recording of of it indicated that they had a sense that they something special was about to happen. Yes. Well, at that time, so Woody Allen, Phyllis Diller, Joan Rivers, and others were performing in those clubs. So most of those

clubs were mafia-owned. They were black tie, very late crowd. Like Tony Pastors over here, too. Tony Pastors, obviously the Gaslight Cafe in later years. So a lot of those cafes and late night bars, they attracted a lot of talent. And of course, your neighbors at Cafe Roy in the 60s, Springsteen and Dylan and others, as you know, better than anyone. So, I mean, the village, I'll say this about the village.

So Dan came on a tour. It was great to have him. We had a blast, a nice day. And that was the village variety tour. What were you carrying during the tour? No. In case my nephew overwhelmed you. No, you guys were a delight.

I also have another tour, which is the historical tour of the village, which I would enjoy talking to you about. You stopped for coffee first? No. I actually... You'd have to drag me on a historical tour of the village. I'm sure you'd make it more interesting than anybody on planet Earth.

So the history of the village is fascinating, devastating, and hugely inspiring. Because I agree with your sentiment that probably a good replacement for melatonin would be to talk to people about the impact of the Industrial Revolution on cotton farming, I purposefully, painstakingly curated a tour that I thought would be engaging. So I've never been on a tour of the village, and I did that intentionally. What I did instead was I took a deep dive in the archives of the New York Historical Society, the Library of Congress, and other sources. And I searched for inspiring and engaging events and people who advocated events that happened throughout the history of the village, dating back to the early 17th century when the Dutch arrived and the Lenape Indians were living

here. Was it a gay neighborhood when the Lenape Indians were here? I did not see any documentation of homosexuality between the Lenape Indians, but I must admit that it was not my primary search criteria when I was looking for information about the Dutch East India Company and trading and the construction of the wall that the Dutch put up to prevent the Lenape Indians from attacking them. And that is the origin of the name Wall Street. There was a physical wall in the financial district. The Lenape Indians gave enslaved Africans land rights. The first black-owned land is at Washington Square Park in order, in part, to create a buffer

between them and the Lenape Indians who were not amenable to their arrival in New York. Who bought Manhattan for $10? It was Peter Minuit. Okay, so there is a lot of lore in the village that I think is worth dispelling. So for example, the Hangman's Elm on the northwest corner of Washington Square Park is neither an elm nor is there any evidence that anyone was ever hanged from it. The story goes that traders during the American Revolution were hanged from the elm. There's just no documentation of that. In terms of the dollar amount paid, so first, the Lenape did not have insight into, they didn't believe in land ownership, so it's not even clear that they knew what they're doing, nor is it clear how much was

actually paid. I think what's more interesting is some of the development, the anglicizing of some of the names of parts of the village. So for example, we're on McDougall Street. McDougall Street is named after John McDougall, who was the representative of New York to the Continental Congress, one of the founders of the Sons of Liberty, and an employee of George Washington and close friend of Alexander Hamilton. Manhattan is Dutch, was named by the Dutch, Manahatta, the Island of Hills. Broadway came from the Dutch name Breedaway, which was Dutch for a wide trail. They took the Lenape Trail and widened it, and that became Broadway. So.

Can I ask you a question? Also Harlem was, uh, from a Dutch town. There's a Dutch town in Harlem. The Bronx is, is, is someone's last name.

So I think this is interesting. The Bronx family. So, so when you were, um, a teenager, did you collect baseball cards? Like,

like this is, this is, this is, this is obviously a personality trait. This is almost like, um, this is like, um, I, I don't know what it is, but this Like, this is obviously a personality trait. This is almost like, I don't know what it is, but you're not an ordinary person. Like, you love this stuff. And this had to be part of you and your personality

when you were a young child. So how did this manifest itself? When did your parents ever realize? He was giving tours of the house. Our son's a bit different. You guys are so funny. First, I appreciate the compliment. I am honored to talk to people about people like Emma Lazarus and the victims at the Shirtwaist Triangle Factory and so many other people who... You're putting me on now. No, I'm serious.

So to answer your question, I collected... Who is that? I collected... Come on now. Am I being punked? I'm super passionate about it. I collected baseball cards as a kid. In fact, I played Little League,

and I had, I can still name the Yankees infield, Thurman Munson, Ron Guidry, Chris Chambliss, Bucky Dent, Willie Randolph, Craig Nettles, Mickey Rivers, Lou Piniella, and Reggie Jackson. There you go. I used to go see those guys play. But, no, I mean it. Which Yankee Stadium was that? How many Yankee Stadiums ago? That was the last Yankee Stadium. We've only had two since 1923, the house that Ruth built.

So... Is it true that Ruth didn't actually build the stadium? He did not. You are correct, Dan. He did not actually build the stadium. He would have been too exhausted to hit 60 home runs, which, by the way, here comes Kevin Bacon, Hank Greenberg hit 58 home runs. He won two MVP awards and won two World Series titles with the Detroit Tigers. He was born in Greenwich Village. He lived

from his first year of life about a block from Cafe Society on Barrow Street. And? And he was the first Jewish superstar athlete, and he served longer than anyone else in World War II, and he was the first professional Major League Baseball player to welcome Jackie Robinson to the big leagues. There's your baseball reference. All right, very good. And what happened in that building, right? Was that Louisa May Alcott? Who lived in

the building across the street, the red one? I don't know where you're pointing because we're inside a building. No, look out the window. When I point, it's because I want you to look. That's McDougal Street. There's a red building. I cannot say that I know. That is not on the tour.

So that building right across the street, I think it's where Louisa May Alcott wrote Little Women or something because it's landmarked because somebody famous lived there. All right. Since you disparaged Emma Lazarus, may I tell you about Emma Lazarus? I didn't disparage Emma Lazarus. I'm just kidding. Go ahead. Oh, you thought I was joking. I think Emma Lazarus is probably... No, I was

laughing because I asked you about your childhood, and you brought up Emma Lazarus. Okay. What would you like to know about my childhood? I had a tremendous childhood. I was... Do you remember every day of your life? How deep does this memory go? I think it would be pretentious for me to answer that question. No, no, not pretentious. I will say I was born in Tarrytown. Tarrytown is the home of the Headless Horseman, the Washington Irving story about the Hessian soldier

who has a cannonball decapitate him, and he's riding around What does Hessian mean? German soldier. He was fighting in the American Revolution. I knew that. Come on, come on. Hess was, I think, I think Hess was one of the principalities

in Germany, right? There's Hess, and there was like Bavaria, whatever, you know? Okay, okay, okay. Hessian soldier. Okay. So the moral of this story is don't lose sight of reality. He's running around searching for his soul without a head. But Washington Irving lived in the village, and he was the first great American he considered the father of American literature about 20 years so I'll tell you what I think is a fascinating story I want more question for tell me that are your

parents like this is it as it would it be a personality? Yeah, like is this like at dinner at your house, did you all just catalog? Like did your mother use a cookbook or she just memorized the recipes? I don't think we used cookbooks. Is it a genetic? I'm being killed, but is there a genetic trait that, this is unusual.

Right. My father was very passionate about history. I wish I had this kind of recall. Do you have siblings? I have a sister. She is a brilliant artist. Do you ever forget anything? What do you ever forget?

I feel like answering your questions honestly would be pretentious. But Noam, he studies this. So if you study something, this is interest. So it's so fascinating so washington irving is this great american uh writer at only picture about 20 years after the country starts right here living right here and so it's the turn of the century, the early 19th century. And the owner of a hotel on Mulberry Street in Chinatown puts an ad in the newspaper. It wasn't called, it wasn't Chinatown then, was it? Was it Chinatown then? No. Okay. I don't believe so. Present day Chinatown. And

he puts an ad in the newspaper, this owner of the hotel, and he says, I have found a manuscript by a guy by the name of Diedrich Knickerbocker. And this gentleman is supposedly walking around wild on the streets. He skipped his bill. I've got the manuscript. He's putting these ads, this hotel owner in the newspaper, searching for this guy, Diedrich Knickerbocker. He says he's got the manuscript. The manuscript is titled, The History of the World Through the Country Through the Dutch Dynasty.

Now, at this time, 20 years into the founding of the country through the Dutch dynasty. Now at this time, 20 years into the founding of the country, there was a great thirst for a great admiration and jealousy of European history because other countries had thousands of years of history and this was a nascent country. And so there was great fascination from the media. They wanted to find this Diedrich Knickerbocker so they could publish this manuscript and learn about the founding of the early years of this country. And it created a great firestorm. And it turned out it was all a ruse. The hotel was fictitious. It was a farce. There was no hotel. There was no Diedrich Knickerbocker. There was no manuscript. This was a strategic tactic that Washington Irving used at age 26 in the early 1800s to build his interest in his literary career. It was a, basically he had written a satirical piece with some facts inserted about the history of New York. Now, even though he later divulged that this was a farce,

this became the most popular book in the city, and they named the fire department Knickerbocker. They named bread Knickerbocker bread. They named hotels Knickerbocker hotels. Somebody actually ran for the House of Representatives in New York and changed his last name to Knickerbocker because Diedrich Knickerbocker, even though he never existed, became the founding father of New York and a great source of pride, thus the name the New York Knickerbockers. Which, by the way, is a team from the National Basketball Association. And also the restaurant on the corner of 9th Street and University.

Yes. Is that a real name, though, Knickerbocker? It's completely made up. It's not like a name that anybody has. No. In later years, he wrote Rip Van Winkle, the story about this man, as we all know, who fell asleep for 20 years and realized how life passes you by. But this was the springboard for his career. What was the name of the author who also wrote a fraudulent book?

J.T. LeRoy. Clifford Irving? Are you thinking of Descartving? Are you thinking of Descartes? Are you thinking of Don Quixote? Cervantes? Yes. You don't know Clifford Irving. It would be funny if it was Irving because it's both Irving. Clifford Irving.

American novelist. Clifford Irving. He's best known. There, there. It's up. It's on the screen. Oh, he wrote a fake. It's based on an autobiography allegedly written to told by... It was a fictional word. It was a fake.

He wrote a fake Howard Hughes book. You don't remember this? I haven't read it. Aha! You got me. I can't believe that came to me. So a lot of people don't know Irving Place in Gramercy Park is named after Washington Irving. He also had a house on Irving Place. But the Irving family is a lot of people don't know Irving Place in Gramercy Park is named after Washington Irving. He also had a house on Irving Place.

But the Irving family is a bunch of frauds. Well, I'm not here to pass judgment on the Irvings. Now, why was Washington Irving named Washington? Was he named after George Washington? It's a weird first name. Is it a pen name? He used a lot of

pseudonyms. I don't know the origin of his first name well i mean i assume that george washington was from an area in england maybe that was uh maybe call washington anyway i i do want to talk uh about the history of the comedy seller a bit because that's on your tour that he knows more than i do for sure well i was on your tour was the history we stopped we we we went we talked about reggio and the first cappuccino machine did you know that no i know that was they have a sign there okay all right um but and then we we stopped in front of the comedy cellar and you do this on every tour just because i was there i do it on every tour so yeah

cafe reggio is a fascinating story because it began as a barbershop. And the owner, a guy by the name of Parisi, was giving coffee to his patrons at the barbershop. And they seemed to like the coffee more than the haircut. And so he opened in this about 100 years ago, opened this coffee shop. And yeah, it has the first cappuccino machine. It's got the ceiling fan from Casablanca. Godfather II was filmed in it. And John Kennedy in 1959 made a speech

in front of Cafe Reggio. But I think- And it's in the movie Shaft, and there's a song, Cafe Reggio, in the soundtrack for Shaft by Isaac Hayes. It's been in a lot of movies, and it's been written up a lot, and it's a popular place. But I think what fascinated me about listening to the history and founding of the Comedy Cellar,

and this is, I think, analogous to me giving strategic military advice to George Washington, so I'm going to just stick my toe in this. Oh, I don't care. You don't have to worry about it. Water. I'll cut it out. But, you know, I think what was fascinating to me is is a few things. One, that the founder saw just the steps and his vision that he had. And I think that'll resonate with a lot of people being able to see something that isn't built yet. I just want to mention that you talked about Bill Grunfest, but it was Manny Dorman, Noam's father,

that instituted a lot of the things you're talking about. I didn't want to be petty. Yes, absolutely. And I think when Grunfest talks about finding Stephen Wright in Boston, that's interesting. He told you he found Stephen. No, I'm talks about finding Stephen Wright in Boston, that's interesting. He told you he found Stephen. No, I'm kidding. Did Stephen Wright work here?

I think he did. I think he did. I haven't seen Stephen Wright in a while. He would never record on it, but I think he was here at some point. And Jon Stewart crediting him for helping to launch his career. That's 100%. Jon Stewart was working at Panchito's. Panchito's not there anymore, but you know,

maybe you put that in your tour. Where's Panchito's? 105 at Google. It's at Greek restaurant. And Gary Seinfeld and, you know, some Lucy Cades. Seinfeld, not so much, but yeah. But I mean an early performer. Would you like to hear about Emma Lazarus?

Well, we could delve a little bit more into the cellar, just so you are better armed for your tour. Now, have you ever had a fight break out with a family on one of these tours? They just can't fucking stand each other. My greatest worry, and Dan knows this, is that my highest priority is not educating, inspiring. It's protecting people from the e-bike delivery drivers when we're crossing the street. This is my greatest concern.

It's a little— You carry insurance for that? I haven't been able to get insurance. I signed a waiver. I must confess I didn't read a word of it. Right. But I clicked, as I always do. In the waiver, it says if you get struck by a delivery bike driver,

you are wholly responsible for your death. Does it really say that? No. Okay. But it does say something, I assume, about getting hit by a car. I didn't read it. Yes. But I guess it means you get hit by a car.

Now, okay, my family and I took a private tour of Disney. Very similar. Well, it's only similar because it's a private tour, right? And then we're supposed to tip at the end. Right. And we had no fucking idea. What do you tip a private tour at Disney? What would you tip?

How much was the tour? It was like, let's say it's like $800 a person, something like that. I have to increase my price. $800 a person. A person? So a tour... But it includes no lines at every ride

all day at Disney World. Oh, that's different. This includes no lines at Emma Lazarus's house. I appreciate the Emma Lazarus' house. I know it. I appreciate the Emma Lazarus reference. I cannot speak on the Disney tours. That is not my area of expertise. But in terms of New York City, most New York City walking tours are two hours. And those tours typically range from about $39 to $79. I've

priced my tours at $39. So tips, gratuities are optional on tours. If I was going on a tour for $39, I would probably tip $10 to $15 per person. Now, what ethnic group would you say are the best tip? Wait, wait. $15 on a 30? That's like a 30%. Well, that's a cheap. So have you eaten dinner?

Have you ordered an entree in New York City recently? Yeah, yeah. And I do want to talk about that. So you're getting two hours of entertainment that is pretty well curated, and it's a physical job, and you're getting photo visuals, and I think most people would agree it's a, you know, if you compare some other two-hour activities, like, for example, a show or dinner,'t tip on it you don't tip at a show yeah i didn't know that that touring was a tip or i'm sorry i didn't leave you a tip oh dan dan you know i haven't i've been thinking about it ever since you're raised by by wolves well i didn't realize

that that that tour was a tipping well you go to see a broadway show you don't tip tour you don't tip of the broadway show no do you No. But you tip a tour guide. But in a Broadway show, you're not going backstage after unless you're gnome. And so you're not interacting face-to-face with the people. But yeah, on tours- But did the Germans leave you a tip? It was me, my nephew, and these Germans. Dan, I cannot comment on the tipping practices of other people on the tour. It would be inappropriate. I can't believe you didn't tip.

It's not too late. Well, I think it'd be a little awkward now, but I'll tell you what. We'll give you a half off on the food here. We? Can I order off the entire menu? Is it the pre-1980 policy of only ordering half of the menu?

Was there ever a menu policy here to not order? There still is. I mean, whenever, no, I think the policy was always half off for the comedians. But there were times when like food spots, like late night spots, where they could order off certain, but they couldn't order the steak. Like you order, you know, it wasn't it was never stingy. This is something interesting. You may or may not want to include.

I don't know. But here's something that you may or may not want to include in the comedy cellar that we know today as the premier club in New York City. The the the the most popular, wasn't always that way. Back in the 90s and the early 2Ks, you might have 10 people in the room as the hours wore on. If you were lucky. And so what they used to do is have something called food spots, where it was amateurs, basically, and I would do those.

And after midnight, you would have the comics that were less seasoned, less experienced, mostly still had day jobs, and they would go on after midnight, and they would not get paid. They would get paid in food, and it was called the food spot. So could you order anything off the menu? I don't remember. There's no way you could, because certain items you can't give away to and i don't know if it was like unlimited like you could order like dessert and whatever it was but but they were for newer comics i mean in any restaurant

when it's our comic things you know there's certain meat which is would have been cheaper to pay the comedians than to start handing out meat certain meat but anyway the club became so popular that they had to phase out the food spot because they didn't want to put amateurs on anymore because now they had full houses and people with expectations. The club became popular so that you wouldn't put amateurs on. No.

Is that sort of the evolution? Food spots are something you do when you really have no choice. It's not like you... Well, you had no choice because... Because there's no money. And also because you didn't have the the um the comics didn't want to work after midnight anyway so you had to throw the amateurs no i mean my my most of my life you know despite what people think was uh we were suffering

financial anxiety always we were always kind of broke and you know struggling to make ends meet especially in your old days of the comedy sold know struggling to make ends meet especially in the old days of the comedy soldering when it was empty at that time the comedy seller was was being supported by either the cafe fiend john or the cafe wata is the fiend john well this is something else i'm a little unclear on is the fiend john is that where the waa is now yeah so you're so it was the waa back in the 60s the original cafe wall closed in 1968 i don't know if you know this the original cafe wall closed in 1968 then it was a you know had a little like sporadic thing richie havens had a club there there was a club called duke's dilemma there

was some other thing and then my father took over the room in 1973 or so and he had the fiends on there for until I finally changed the name in 88 back to the Cafe Wah and when I changed the name back to the Cafe Wah nobody even heard of the Cafe Wah anymore I remember having to explain to everybody what kind of stupid name is that and I said well that's the place where Jimi Hendrix

was discovered and then the Cafe Wah when I had it, became way more famous than the original Café Noir had been. And then it just kind of, the whole old history of the Café Noir was rediscovered. I wouldn't even know till much later that Bruce Springsteen had actually started there, the Castilles. Somebody brought me a picture of that. But we knew that Springsteen, that Hendrix had started there, the Castilles. Somebody brought me a picture of that. But we knew that Hendrix had started there, and I knew that Dylan had played there a couple times.

But Dylan wasn't really actually associated that closely with the Café Noir. He had actually played in my father's first Finjan, and he played at the Gaslight in Folk City. Folk City was over there. And now I sound like him. If you're interested, on my website, epicwalkingtours.com, I recently interviewed Hap Pardo,

the director of musical operations at Cafe Wa, and I wrote a separate article on the history of Cafe Wa that includes some photos that you might not have seen before. Yeah, well, you know, those guys wrote me out of the whole Cafe Wa, but the truth is I remember the cafe was since i was a little boy it was it was a it was a it was a clip joint and the village in those days you could see little clips of it on the movie the president's analyst you ever see that movie you should you would you would love that movie has

clips of the villages the village when i was a kid kid, McDougal Street was so crowded, you couldn't even get a car through. It was just fucking mobbed in the 60s. And the Cafe Wawa was one of these places. It was even open during the day. And they would just bring people in, like tourists or whatever it is, and play crappy music. And then when it got they needed a turnover, Manny Roth

would turn off the air conditioning. And people would leave and get a turnover that way. And it was, he'd started in the fifties and it was relatively short lived and it was free admission was there, was their calling card. And, um, and they would just have a collection of acts, this one, this one, this one, you know, hundreds of different acts, which is why Hendrix was discovered there. Um,

and, and it, as I said, it went out of business in 68 and 68, which is why Hendrix was discovered there. And as I said, it went out of business in 68, and 68 was still a vital time to be open in the village. Then the village in the 70s really became just like junkies everywhere. But, and like I said, then the place was closed for 20 years and forgotten, pretty much forgotten. And I always regretted renaming it the Cafe Wah because I'd actually started the house band concept that the Cafe Wah has now in my father's place in the Cafe Finjan.

And we had a line to come in. And then we made a big party where we changed the name to Cafe Wa, which in retrospect was one of the biggest mistakes of my life because then I never became associated with that. Everybody thinks the Cafe Wa is this old place, but really it has nothing to do with the old Cafe Wa except that it's the same location. And when I had the Café Noir, I did very little to draw on the old reputation of the Café Noir because I didn't really want to tie myself to it because it bothered me that I wouldn't get credit for what I'd created. But now that's very much what they do.

It's Café Noir. And they've done a great job, but they have written me out of the history. I mean, even the best musicians who still sing there were the ones I hired. Now, well, I don't know if you want to integrate any of that into your tour. No, don't say that.

No, I wouldn't say that. Well, I will share with you that I have been to the Comedy Center. And Hap is a good guy. They're all good guys. They do what they do for their own interests. They don't have to worry about me. Are you about to say you've been to the Comedy Cell? Many times.

It is hilarious. It's such a great room. And it's my favorite comedy club. Thank you for that. And now I guess we'll end with Emma Lazarus, as we must. I can tell you a joke if you want to make a conclusion. That cafe wall logo with the moon and the guitar thing. I designed that logo.

What's a clip joint? Clip joint is like a tourist. It's like you get people in, get people out. You don't really care about anything other than to grab the money and, and, and get them out. It wasn't, it wasn't a place that the cafe became, which was still is like really dedicated. It's like a music version of what the comedy seller is like really dedicated to having fantastic music and fantastic everything, you know, food and service and all that stuff. Um, but when I sold the cafe, there was a line around the block to get in seven nights a week. Why did you sell it?

Seven, because the landlord, Donald Goldman, who used to own the Players Theater, which we already talked about, he was playing cutesy with me about giving me another lease. And I didn't know what to do. And my father had died. I had the cellar and I had the fat black pussy cat around the corner. I had the village underground. I had the cafe. And it was more than I could handle. And, uh, I figured I I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna sell it. I need, I needed to, I needed to throw in with what was secure for me. And what was secure for me was the comedy cellar where I owned the real estate and around the corner where I had 15 years of lease ahead of me. And I saw my time running out there, and so I sold it.

Also, it took a lot of work. It was a lot of work. Well, you were in the band, so you would play every night. It was all too much for me. And I've gone down there, I think, twice since then, since I sold it. I don't, I don't ever regret selling it. Now, that leads us inevitably to Emma Lazarus. Yeah, there's three, two people and one place I would love to share the history of with you. That's Henry Berg, the founder of the ASPCA, who worked and lived in the village, Emma Lazarus,

and the Jefferson Market Courthouse, which is now the Jefferson Market Library. You know, I think taking a tour in the village is, it's hard to imagine that there is a comparable place to take a tour in the United States. If you think about the, I heard you talking about politics earlier, but the growth of neo-totalitarianism throughout the world today, the absence of the right to be gay, to be a woman and vote, to have— Are you gay? No. Are you a woman?

No. Okay, go ahead. In dozens of countries throughout the world, I think it's easy for us to take for granted what it is like to live in a country where just as the people who were at the Stonewall Inn in the 1960s could tell you, there was no gay pride. There was gay shame and there was gay fear. Immigrants who were not permitted, there was a 10-year moratorium, a 10-year ban following on Chinese immigrants coming to this country following the gold rush in 1849, the 49ers. The Chinese Exclusion Act prevented Chinese workers from coming to this country for 10 years. If you were black in this country, if you were working in a sweatshop like the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory and were working 12 hours a day, seven days... It was a fire there, right? That's what it was.

Yes. Seven days a week. If you went to the bathroom too long, you were docked a half day's pay, lacking proper fire exits and sprinklers. So when we think about human rights, labor rights, immigration, people of color, gay rights, women's suffrage, what I would want people to know is that that the genesis of us enjoying those privileges today were so much of that fight happened in the village courageous people who often went to jail women who protested the working conditions in the years free speech to that with lenny bruce right across the street being arrested free speech and certainly edna saint vincent Millay and many others, and Margaret Anderson at The Little Review, and Mae West on Broadway in the play Sex,

who was arrested under the Comstock Act by the Society for the Suppression of Vice for public obscenity and jailed at the Jefferson Courthouse. We owe a debt of gratitude to these people. So for me, to stand in front of a house where Emma Lazarus lived is so incredible. Well, where is her house? It is on 10th Street, next to Mark Twain's house. That's not on the tour you's house. That's not on the tour you went on.

Because you weren't tipping, I took you on a tour that did not include Emma Lazarus. Max, I want you to contact the Guinness organization. Ask them if there's a record for the most mentions of Emma Lazarus in a podcast. But Emma Lazarus was the...

What did you say about Emma Lazarus? She was the woman who wrote... Emma Lazarus. Oh, Emma Lazarus. Was the woman who wrote the poem on the Statue of Liberty. The New Colossus. Thank you. Give me...

Let's see if you get it right. You're tired? You're sick? You're hungry? Well, I'm sick. People... No. You're poor?

You're tired. What kind of masses? Tired. You're huddled masses. Huddled masses. What were they yearning to do? Yearning to be free. They were poor. You're tired. What kind of masses? Tired, you're huddled masses. Huddled masses. What were they yearning to do? Yearning to be free. They were yearning to breathe free.

But there was an episode. Close enough. What about Wretched Refuse? Where's that? It's in there, too. But there was an episode of All in the Family where Archie Bunker says, Yeah, the poem to Statue of Liberty, give me your tide, you poor, you're deadbeats. Yeah, get me.

She was Jewish, wasn't she? She was a Jewish immigrant from Europe who, when she came here writing poetry at only 16 years old, went directly to the tenement buildings to, as Jacob Ries did and documented, the photojournalist in the book, How the Other Half Lives, to document the great divide on the heels of the Gilded Age, which Edith Worden had written about from the Age of Innocence, who, by the way, also lived in the village. She was a tremendous advocate for human rights. And for, at this time, the great irony is that for Jews coming from Europe, for Africans... Are you Jewish? I'm Jewish, yes.

Good. You can stay. Yes, I'm permitted to use the word Jews. Yes. I think it was Dave Chappelle recently said that nothing ever good happens after you start a sentence, those Jews. The Jews. Yeah, the Jews.

The Jews, right. Yes. So the Jews who were trying to immigrate, unless you're the Jews who were trying to immigrate from Europe and the Chinese who were unsuccessfully trying to immigrate following the gold rush. most misunderstood stories in American history. The meaning of the Statue of Liberty, when it was donated, was not to be this beacon of welcoming immigrants to Ellis Island. That is myth. A French abolitionist came up with the idea to donate this statute, which came in 218 boxes by the way we had to put it together thanks France it's like the IKEA it was the IKEA I mean they could have put some of it together it's a lot of work so this was a gift to sell he was an abolitionist originally the chains on her feet were around they were

shackles around her wrists. It was celebrating the end of the Civil War and France's friendship with the United States. It did not have anything to do with welcoming people from other countries. The sculptor of that statue, Frederick Auguste Bertoldi. He spread them all over the world. The Statue of Liberty is all over the world. All over the world. Right?

There's like five of them. You can get it at a gift shop in Times Square. No, there's real ones. There's real ones that he made. Tourists would tell you those are real. They're just small. Look up other Statues of Liberty. There's one in Vegas.

Statues of Liberty. That's right. And that one, yes. New York, New York. That's pretty recent, though. So because this was a period of high unemployment at the time, New Yorkers were suffering in poverty, there was a great backlash to spend money. There are two genuine statues and several less of those of the Statue of Liberty. These are real ones. The second is located in Paris,

France, and was a reciprocal gift from the United States in 1889. That's insane. We gave one back to them? We should have just given back ours. We could have saved a lot of money. You didn't know this? I'm familiar. Okay.

Are you impressed, Max? Yeah. That was impressive. That was impressive. The village... The Statue of Liberty is not in the village. I'm just saying. It's not part of his...

I was saying there was a bunch of them. He's making fun of me like I was trinkets. Thank you. My attorney, Dan, has defended me successfully. Okay. So... Now that I know you're Jewish, I expect a higher standard from you.

Go ahead. I apologize for letting you down. I'll try to make up ground with my Henry Berg story. Well, we are running short. Could we just finish up the Emma Lazarus? Yes. And let those who want to come on your tour hear about these other great stories. So she wrote the sonnet, The New Colossus, to help raise money. There were fundraising campaigns to raise money to construct the Statue of Liberty. The crown of the Statue of Liberty for years sat in Madison Square Park. Kids could climb it for five cents as a fundra ahead. And so this poem was added to the pedestal in later years,

and this became the symbol of the Statue of Liberty after Emma Lazarus died of cancer at 38 years old. Her friend, Georgina Schuyler, who was the sister of Louisa Schuyler, who also has a history in the village, and the great-granddaughter of Alexander Hamilton, found the poem in a book and decided to push for it to be included on the Statue of Liberty. It was originally just used for an auction to raise money. So she never, she didn't live to see it? Never lived to see, to know what this meant to people and how it changed the narrative for the Statue of Liberty and created a society that became more welcoming of immigrants. Because the year before she wrote that poem, they had passed, the federal government had passed the Chinese Exclusion Act,

which banned for immigrants for 10 years for coming to the United States. So it was not a reflection of current practices in the country. So it was a poem about what? It was a poem about giving us your tired and your poor and huddled masses so they could have opportunities. People breathing to be free. Right, but I'm saying, like, she wrote... it's just like, what was she... The Colossus referred to this statue, and the... her prophecy was that our nation would live up to its ideals. So she did write it for the statue.

Yes. I see. I understand. Okay, okay. And that makes sense. Yeah, the Colossus refers to the Statue of Liberty, yes. All right, well, that's amazing. That's an amazing wealth of knowledge that you have.

Thank you. I feel like I should tip you now. And we hope, you know, you're certainly welcome to use any of the stuff about the comedy seller on your tour that we discussed. I will do that. Yes, you're certainly welcome to use any of the stuff about the comedy cellar on your tour that we discussed. I will do that. Yes. And you might want to also mention that we have a great steak and chicken kebabs are a standout.

No, Henry Berg would not like that. He was an animal. I believe we are the first hummus. Not here. My father's on 7th Avenue. I think it was the first hummus in Manhattan here. My father's on 7th Avenue. I think it was the first hummus in Manhattan. The old menus, we have them somewhere,

it used to say, I'll tell you this, ready? It had hummus on the menu. And it said, hummus, if you don't know what it is, ask your waitress, she'll find out. Why don't you put that back? That's amazing. Now hummus is so, I mean, you can go to supermarkets. So what?

It's so funny. You get Stacy's. Was that Stacy's, the hummus brand? I don't know, but that's how obscure it was. One is a hummus at every supermarket. And we also were known far and wide to be one of the places that was gay friendly. In the 60s, my father's role was he would only hire women and gays and the i mean it sounds very noble but he didn't want any straight men

because he wanted to have you know have he wanted as many opportunities as the way the world was. So, I don't know. That is unbelievable. But he always, always, always had... But the restaurant... So, the Comedy Room started in 82 or 81, whatever it was. The restaurant, the Olive Tree Cafe, started when? 69. 69, but it moved from originally on 7th Avenue and Commerce Street, opened

1960. And where did the stained glass come from? You mean the Star of David down there? Yeah. And the stained glass in the window. Various places. Some auction of some old synagogue. Wow. And the stained glass, the one in the window that has my father's name was

obviously custom made. Fancy. What a coincidence. And um in the in the aisle trees some of that comes from an old ice cream parlor and some of it comes from a very famous old chinese restaurant called the great shanghai which you probably don't know that was on the upper west side and when did the idea for having um blackboard tabletops with chalk coming. Was that? No. So my father bought the slate table somewhere, I think also at an auction, and a customer came in and said,

hey, Manny, you should put some chalk on those tables. So it wasn't even the concept. That's amazing. And he said, oh, yeah, it's a good idea. I should put some chalk on those. That's so great. Yeah. And then, of course, so many things have changed. So now, you know, just the have changed so now you know just the

the novelty of being able to write on the tables is just not what it once was because everybody's just used to writing everywhere you know but at the time it was but people still always draw on also we also we always showed charlie chapman movies so in my lifetime i saw it go from a 16 millimeter projector to an advent, like cart, that film cartridges to a big screen TV to VHS to DVD. And finally the digital, and I've seen every, every iteration of technology to play these chat movies. In the old days, we were petrified about the FBI coming in to crash it. There's all sorts of stuff. It's just interesting how things have changed.

Okay, well, Andrew Kirshner, licensed New York City sightseeing tour guide. Licensed? Yes. The Department of Consumer Affairs requires you to pass a state exam. Like massage therapists. Very similar.

The same topics. If you want to get a tour of the village, just visit his website. The website is? Epicwalkingtours.com i kept it simple okay that's an amazing amount of information you have i am really quite impressed thank you all right thank well thank you very thank you very much podcast at comedyseller.com was that is that the right yeah podcast economy i haven't plugged it in so long yeah podcast at comedyseller.com i would also mention uh giraffe Pen Saxophone.

Okay. Pen Giraffe Saxophone. The order doesn't matter. That was the order. Okay. You don't get extra points for the order? Well, maybe you do.

I never, you know. Anyway, thank you so much. We thank you, Andrew Kirshner, and thank you, Perriel. Thank you, Max Marcus. Working sound.

Bye-bye.